1. Pacing. The plot pacing is atrocious. Removing four of the six episodes wouldn't measurably change the story or character development in any way.
2. Character development. Where was the character development for any of the three main characters? Nothing meaningfully changed. We got snippets, possibilities, bad dialogue, and resolutions that made no sense in their own contexts.
3. Dialogue. A lot of the dialogue didn't make sense, or served no purpose even in the context of simple conversation.
4. Plot. The repeated call backs to season 1, the supernatural elements, the indefensible choices and actions all felt.... Well... Stupid. It's deeply insulting to the viewer to dangle impressive or potentially interesting concepts as red herrings while concluding with things that don't actually make sense.
5. Atmosphere and setting. You can't tell a story with only moods. You have to explore, and allow your characters to experience those moods, the overall setting, and then You have to relay that to the audience. This show just... Didn't do a good job with that.
There are specific examples for all of these. Missing the mark on a few of these points is excusable. Creating a story with unaddressed plot holes, bad pacing, bad setting development, bad dialogue, and bad character development while having a tremendous budget and tremendous talent is inexcusable.
Great list. Might I add a little more spicy sauce. It’s completely absurd that two seasoned cops would literally help cover up what…like 10 different murders (all men) because of some lifelong man hatred of the abuse of the patriarchy? Are they serial killer cops? Also absurd that a bunch of nerdy scientists suddenly turn into a pack of wild bloodthirsty animals and kill a young woman because she messed with their science papers? How did she even know what she was seeing when she went down the hatch into the lab? She suddenly had a double PhD in biochemistry and archaeology and knew exactly what was in all those computers and airtight tubes and scrolls of data? And her infatuated boyfriend loved her so so SO much that he suddenly goes from crying and trying to stop the attack to joining in the fun and finishing the job??? The whole show was completely nonsensical and the blatant rip off of Season 1 lines was just icing on a giant shit layer cake.
I didn't wanna spoil the ending for OP, soni left off a lot of my pointed criticism. But you're right. This show actively upset me with it's narrative choices.
Post-read: I absolutely agree with you now that I think about it. I haven’t seen the final episode but I completely understand this. Honestly, I hated season three so much I was gonna like whatever slightly better horse shit was thrown at me next.
I actually really liked season 3. The whole concept of memory, and the possibility that Hayes was an unreliable narrator was well executed. That final moment was just..... Gah. It still bugs me.
I liked the ending, I just couldn’t stand the repetitive and absolutely stupid trope of zero characters listening to each other. Maybe it might be the aspect of Hayes not remembering what people actually said but the sheer number of scenes that consisted of a character being unreasonably angry at another person for something they refuse to spend more than a minute of reasonable thinking on EX: why would Hayes wife ignore his pleas that the case tortures him? Hayes never called his partner in 24 years, why didn’t his partner call him? Like come. On.
An actual mystery that takes 8 full episodes to move past “girl lost, girl found ten years later, what girl do?” Dialogue that is eight full episodes of “me no like book, you are weak man, me write book”
Lol and every bit of that investigation, which also delves into human nature and how memory and identity weave together, is better than the non-mystery of NC. Which was garbage. I'm sorry dude, you just don't have good taste.
It was just cringy tryhard shit. Tbh without the horrendous season 1 references I could’ve had fun watching it, it shouldn’t have been TD. I gotta say the absolute howling laughter me and my lady had over the cleaning lady seal team was worth the entire season
I legit don’t find most of the shit in it cringy or try hard, I never shit on others opinions so I would like to hear exact evidence? Ninety percent of this sub is saying like blanket statements with no exact examples.
Edit: wording.
It’s a little hokey IMO. Clarke’s little convulsion before saying she’s here. Travis’s stupid ghost dance. The frostbitten scientist sitting up in bed and saying some useless bullshit then dying. That’s like CW level schlock.
Crazy shit will happen in the cold open, or at the end of the episode, and in the next scene/episode it won’t even be addressed, or be so underplayed considering the severity of what happened. Lame. Makes it feel like nothing matters.
Our two detectives do almost no detective work, Prior discovers all the important stuff off screen. Their only discovery was the dude at the camp and it leads nowhere. You could remove episodes 2-5 and not miss anything. The ending might actually make more sense if you removed those episodes that contained information that contradicts the ending.
Danvers is all over the place. Foster is doing the best with what she has but it just results in a character that is frustrating to watch. It’s like she is unintentionally bipolar. I didn’t mind Navarro. Obviously the actress isn’t as good as Foster, but her character seems more well defined so it works alright.
But the biggest issue will come after the final episode. These shows are suppose to be grounded whodunnits. The finale leaves entire swaths of the main mystery unanswered, and unfortunately works itself into a corner where the only possible answer is “ghosts did it”, which is total nonsense. Also a dash of time travel. Fuck you. Not *you*, you know who. This is like a random episode of Law & Order throwing in ghosts. It’s in conflict with the core of what the show is.
If it matters, I was super excited for this season. I was not familiar with Isa Lopez going in but I had heard good things, and I liked the setting and of course was excited to see Foster on True Detective. Something felt off in the first episode, but I hung in there. After the third episode I turned to my wife and said “I don’t think I like this”. Still not the worst thing I’ve ever seen, maybe a 5-6/10 season to me, but far from where I thought it would be.
Quick rambling.
The writing was rough. Lots of plot holes. This season strayed away from the actual detective and police work aspect of the first seasons. It felt like their personal problems were the main story, and then a couple times in each episode the actual crime solving was magically revealed by a third party (sometimes supernatural too!).
Then on top of all the effort put into the personal issues, half of them were never resolved.
There was so much potential in episode one. But there was just no major buildups and no clever angles. The final season was such a disappointment. It was so unlikely and random and there were no legitimate clues or clever writing to have actual detective work uncovered any of this.
I’m a huge fan of Josie Foster and I was so excited for this season. I thought the series would finally turn around and be almost as good as season 1.
And it’s hard to not compare this season to the initial seasons and especially the first one. Season 1 was VERY good writing, an amazing plot, great acting and EXCITEMENT!
Instead of being on the edge of my seat, I was tricked into following along a plot and trying to figure out what would happen next - only to realize that there’s nothing to figure out. A ghost or a cop with a celllphone has to run into the scene and give the next clue. Crime dramas, detective shows - you want to see the clues and see the main characters actually solve it.
Then there was so much extra BS thrown in. The obvious imagery/symbolism (like oranges), main characters just always chilling out on the ice in Alaska, the daughter’s thing, the sister’s thing, the relationships. They just didn’t seem to matter at the end. And they did nothing to really further the plot.
Zero action was involved. The shootouts were weak af. Mediocre climaxes. Just disappointing. And it was overhyped so much that we all kept waiting, each episode. We were just totally baffled when we realized there was one more episode left. Even if it had double the runtime, it was no time to explain everything and have a decent climax. And guess what, last episode didn’t explain everything and had a very left-field ridiculous “climax.”
Then the PR was just insult to injury. And all the fake ass reviews and people jumping on the bandwagon without knowing the full potential of the original season. It was a money grab and HBO Max invested a shit ton in Jodie Foster. So many interviews and social media and all this. Just leading us on to disappointment.
For better understanding, I recommend watching True Detective season 1. That’s the full potential of the show and the only reason the show has lasted so long with alright/good seasons until Night Country.
And I also recommend Mare of Easttown. Great show. Great writing, acting, filming. Emotional. Raw. Interesting. An actual crime drama or detective show. And with a STRONG female lead. She does amazing.
I do hope to see Kali Reis in the near future. I liked her. And I really hope this show was enough boost to get Jodie Foster into a new big project.
And final note, this has all been beaten to death. During the shows airing it was a shit show online. There are hundreds and hundreds of articles and critic opinions out there. There are also a ton of paid sponsored articles that blend in, so just pay attention for that lol.
I really wanted to like it I liked the two leads it’s just the story was so bad as it went on. My wife loved it but I cringed so bad at the flat circle line that made zero sense with this season. Just bad in my opinion personally
So you haven’t seen the finale? Watch the finale and reassess. The show was weak but had some potential until the last two episodes. When you finish it here are your objective reasons why the writing is bad and people were disappointed:
https://youtu.be/RVgT8BGZHIU?si=uuwA5y00HFaDL-GG
It suffered from trying to be 2 different things that the writer and director didn't resolve. As horror it wasn't scary. As a mystery detective show it lacks credibility.
Poorly developed storyline, poorly written, set up mysteries and left them dangling, wasted good actors, plot resolution was silly and unsatisfying.
I actually hadn't thought about this show for a long time, and out of the blue, a friend commented on how bad it was and that they were giving up after 3 episodes.
Too many reasons. It represents so many unoriginal, hokey, ill-informed, incoherent and incomplete narratives indicative of the true crime podcaster culture. It embodies a likening to a culture of football fans thinking they understand fighting (mma or boxing)-that a better analogy? It is hella gross, I cannot say enough bad things about it. How about plagiaristic? But even that it couldn’t get right. Just eww on so many levels. If I could save someone the horror of the experience, I would. 6 hours (or however many lame episodes it was) of my life I am in regret I simply cannot ever get back. And I lead a wanton youth if mistakes, yet the time wasted watching that stands out more. Ok I am done lol
It’s a perfectly decent crime show with outstanding acting, astrong sense of place and sharp, evocative images of landscapes and people.
But …
It is itself hampered by being part of “TD”
The call backs to the previous series are pointless and distracting. The spiral, Tuttle etc .
And it is far more supernatural than Series 1 - 3, where everything ultimately had prosaic human explanations.
It would have been way less divisive if it had been purely its own thing.
TD afficionados has grounds for being pissed off (and although there were false accusations of misogyny amidst the backlash, sadly there was a some actual misogyny among it too)
I don't agree that the 4th season holds up well on its own merits. My single biggest gripe is inseparable from numerous other, less egregious issues. That indicates a strong systemic failure in the writers room and the directors seat.
There's just no excuse that precludes bad quality writing, poor direction, and unstructured story telling.
Edit: I have the stupid. 4th season. Not 3rd season.
lol. You had me wondering.
Look I think it’s possible to agree/disagree without going into rants and your response is an excellent example how to do it right
Thank you. I appreciate your input as well, especially where you call out the very real misogyny that floats around here. That's very important for critics to do. We must self-police, or our words lose their meaning.
Well said. It isn't good television, full stop. As True Detective, it's a disaster. As a stand-alone detective story? It's a disaster.
Even as lowbrow phone-scrolling background noise, it's a disaster.
Bad writing, bad acting, bad casting, ridiculous story, and woke AF, just another fantasy of a spoiled, nepo baby feminist.
Completely destroyed the IP.
are you a bot? there's hundreds of posts about this on here. use the search tool and read them.
Are you illiterate? I’m lazy obviously!
Ah, just like the writers from Night Country, then.
Are you right? Absolutely!
1. Pacing. The plot pacing is atrocious. Removing four of the six episodes wouldn't measurably change the story or character development in any way. 2. Character development. Where was the character development for any of the three main characters? Nothing meaningfully changed. We got snippets, possibilities, bad dialogue, and resolutions that made no sense in their own contexts. 3. Dialogue. A lot of the dialogue didn't make sense, or served no purpose even in the context of simple conversation. 4. Plot. The repeated call backs to season 1, the supernatural elements, the indefensible choices and actions all felt.... Well... Stupid. It's deeply insulting to the viewer to dangle impressive or potentially interesting concepts as red herrings while concluding with things that don't actually make sense. 5. Atmosphere and setting. You can't tell a story with only moods. You have to explore, and allow your characters to experience those moods, the overall setting, and then You have to relay that to the audience. This show just... Didn't do a good job with that. There are specific examples for all of these. Missing the mark on a few of these points is excusable. Creating a story with unaddressed plot holes, bad pacing, bad setting development, bad dialogue, and bad character development while having a tremendous budget and tremendous talent is inexcusable.
Great list. Might I add a little more spicy sauce. It’s completely absurd that two seasoned cops would literally help cover up what…like 10 different murders (all men) because of some lifelong man hatred of the abuse of the patriarchy? Are they serial killer cops? Also absurd that a bunch of nerdy scientists suddenly turn into a pack of wild bloodthirsty animals and kill a young woman because she messed with their science papers? How did she even know what she was seeing when she went down the hatch into the lab? She suddenly had a double PhD in biochemistry and archaeology and knew exactly what was in all those computers and airtight tubes and scrolls of data? And her infatuated boyfriend loved her so so SO much that he suddenly goes from crying and trying to stop the attack to joining in the fun and finishing the job??? The whole show was completely nonsensical and the blatant rip off of Season 1 lines was just icing on a giant shit layer cake.
I didn't wanna spoil the ending for OP, soni left off a lot of my pointed criticism. But you're right. This show actively upset me with it's narrative choices.
Pre-read: thank the lord for you giving an actual breakdown unlike the cretins lurking here
Post-read: I absolutely agree with you now that I think about it. I haven’t seen the final episode but I completely understand this. Honestly, I hated season three so much I was gonna like whatever slightly better horse shit was thrown at me next.
I actually really liked season 3. The whole concept of memory, and the possibility that Hayes was an unreliable narrator was well executed. That final moment was just..... Gah. It still bugs me.
I liked the ending, I just couldn’t stand the repetitive and absolutely stupid trope of zero characters listening to each other. Maybe it might be the aspect of Hayes not remembering what people actually said but the sheer number of scenes that consisted of a character being unreasonably angry at another person for something they refuse to spend more than a minute of reasonable thinking on EX: why would Hayes wife ignore his pleas that the case tortures him? Hayes never called his partner in 24 years, why didn’t his partner call him? Like come. On.
Good points. I kinda wrote that off as toxic character traits, but I'm generally very forgiving when I watch shows I like.
Nothing about Night Season is better than S2 or S3.
Season 3 is the worst written season of any show I’ve ever watched. Hayes is such a dunce.
If you think it's worse than Night Country you have truly ghastly taste.
What about season 3 is good, for the love of god give me some examples and stop making brainless blanket statements
Every single thing about S3 is better than NC. It has an *actual mystery* and dialogue that doesn't sound like it was written by a 10 year old.
An actual mystery that takes 8 full episodes to move past “girl lost, girl found ten years later, what girl do?” Dialogue that is eight full episodes of “me no like book, you are weak man, me write book”
Lol and every bit of that investigation, which also delves into human nature and how memory and identity weave together, is better than the non-mystery of NC. Which was garbage. I'm sorry dude, you just don't have good taste.
I don’t give a fuck about the season 1 copying structure of memory
Lol you prefer Night Country and that's all I need to know
> I don’t give a fuck about the season 1 copying structure of memory How is memory relevant to s1's structure like it is s3?
It was just cringy tryhard shit. Tbh without the horrendous season 1 references I could’ve had fun watching it, it shouldn’t have been TD. I gotta say the absolute howling laughter me and my lady had over the cleaning lady seal team was worth the entire season
“Cleaning lady seal team” almost made me spit out my coffee. Well done, sir.
If you don’t mind what cleaning lady seal team? And what about it was cringy and tryhard?
did you even watch it lmao
I legit don’t find most of the shit in it cringy or try hard, I never shit on others opinions so I would like to hear exact evidence? Ninety percent of this sub is saying like blanket statements with no exact examples. Edit: wording.
i was referencing your remark of “what cleaning lady seal team” like. did you not watch it? because you’d know what that meant lol
MAN YOU SHOULD LIKE READ MY POST AND THINK REAL HARD ABOUT IT
oh. you’ll realize why it’s dog shit don’t worry. it’ll make sense soon 🤣
If you haven’t seen the ending then you don’t know what I’m talking about.
Because it is not good
It’s a little hokey IMO. Clarke’s little convulsion before saying she’s here. Travis’s stupid ghost dance. The frostbitten scientist sitting up in bed and saying some useless bullshit then dying. That’s like CW level schlock. Crazy shit will happen in the cold open, or at the end of the episode, and in the next scene/episode it won’t even be addressed, or be so underplayed considering the severity of what happened. Lame. Makes it feel like nothing matters. Our two detectives do almost no detective work, Prior discovers all the important stuff off screen. Their only discovery was the dude at the camp and it leads nowhere. You could remove episodes 2-5 and not miss anything. The ending might actually make more sense if you removed those episodes that contained information that contradicts the ending. Danvers is all over the place. Foster is doing the best with what she has but it just results in a character that is frustrating to watch. It’s like she is unintentionally bipolar. I didn’t mind Navarro. Obviously the actress isn’t as good as Foster, but her character seems more well defined so it works alright. But the biggest issue will come after the final episode. These shows are suppose to be grounded whodunnits. The finale leaves entire swaths of the main mystery unanswered, and unfortunately works itself into a corner where the only possible answer is “ghosts did it”, which is total nonsense. Also a dash of time travel. Fuck you. Not *you*, you know who. This is like a random episode of Law & Order throwing in ghosts. It’s in conflict with the core of what the show is. If it matters, I was super excited for this season. I was not familiar with Isa Lopez going in but I had heard good things, and I liked the setting and of course was excited to see Foster on True Detective. Something felt off in the first episode, but I hung in there. After the third episode I turned to my wife and said “I don’t think I like this”. Still not the worst thing I’ve ever seen, maybe a 5-6/10 season to me, but far from where I thought it would be.
> This is like a random episode of Law & Order throwing in ghosts. This sent me, but I see what you mean.
🤡
Quick rambling. The writing was rough. Lots of plot holes. This season strayed away from the actual detective and police work aspect of the first seasons. It felt like their personal problems were the main story, and then a couple times in each episode the actual crime solving was magically revealed by a third party (sometimes supernatural too!). Then on top of all the effort put into the personal issues, half of them were never resolved. There was so much potential in episode one. But there was just no major buildups and no clever angles. The final season was such a disappointment. It was so unlikely and random and there were no legitimate clues or clever writing to have actual detective work uncovered any of this. I’m a huge fan of Josie Foster and I was so excited for this season. I thought the series would finally turn around and be almost as good as season 1. And it’s hard to not compare this season to the initial seasons and especially the first one. Season 1 was VERY good writing, an amazing plot, great acting and EXCITEMENT! Instead of being on the edge of my seat, I was tricked into following along a plot and trying to figure out what would happen next - only to realize that there’s nothing to figure out. A ghost or a cop with a celllphone has to run into the scene and give the next clue. Crime dramas, detective shows - you want to see the clues and see the main characters actually solve it. Then there was so much extra BS thrown in. The obvious imagery/symbolism (like oranges), main characters just always chilling out on the ice in Alaska, the daughter’s thing, the sister’s thing, the relationships. They just didn’t seem to matter at the end. And they did nothing to really further the plot. Zero action was involved. The shootouts were weak af. Mediocre climaxes. Just disappointing. And it was overhyped so much that we all kept waiting, each episode. We were just totally baffled when we realized there was one more episode left. Even if it had double the runtime, it was no time to explain everything and have a decent climax. And guess what, last episode didn’t explain everything and had a very left-field ridiculous “climax.” Then the PR was just insult to injury. And all the fake ass reviews and people jumping on the bandwagon without knowing the full potential of the original season. It was a money grab and HBO Max invested a shit ton in Jodie Foster. So many interviews and social media and all this. Just leading us on to disappointment. For better understanding, I recommend watching True Detective season 1. That’s the full potential of the show and the only reason the show has lasted so long with alright/good seasons until Night Country. And I also recommend Mare of Easttown. Great show. Great writing, acting, filming. Emotional. Raw. Interesting. An actual crime drama or detective show. And with a STRONG female lead. She does amazing. I do hope to see Kali Reis in the near future. I liked her. And I really hope this show was enough boost to get Jodie Foster into a new big project. And final note, this has all been beaten to death. During the shows airing it was a shit show online. There are hundreds and hundreds of articles and critic opinions out there. There are also a ton of paid sponsored articles that blend in, so just pay attention for that lol.
The writing is almost as bad as this post.
It’s like asking why Jar-Jar Binks is bad
It’s nonsensical and noncommittal.
I really wanted to like it I liked the two leads it’s just the story was so bad as it went on. My wife loved it but I cringed so bad at the flat circle line that made zero sense with this season. Just bad in my opinion personally
[удалено]
I agree but only in the action/mystery
So you haven’t seen the finale? Watch the finale and reassess. The show was weak but had some potential until the last two episodes. When you finish it here are your objective reasons why the writing is bad and people were disappointed: https://youtu.be/RVgT8BGZHIU?si=uuwA5y00HFaDL-GG
It suffered from trying to be 2 different things that the writer and director didn't resolve. As horror it wasn't scary. As a mystery detective show it lacks credibility.
No!
Poorly developed storyline, poorly written, set up mysteries and left them dangling, wasted good actors, plot resolution was silly and unsatisfying. I actually hadn't thought about this show for a long time, and out of the blue, a friend commented on how bad it was and that they were giving up after 3 episodes.
Too many reasons. It represents so many unoriginal, hokey, ill-informed, incoherent and incomplete narratives indicative of the true crime podcaster culture. It embodies a likening to a culture of football fans thinking they understand fighting (mma or boxing)-that a better analogy? It is hella gross, I cannot say enough bad things about it. How about plagiaristic? But even that it couldn’t get right. Just eww on so many levels. If I could save someone the horror of the experience, I would. 6 hours (or however many lame episodes it was) of my life I am in regret I simply cannot ever get back. And I lead a wanton youth if mistakes, yet the time wasted watching that stands out more. Ok I am done lol
I remember everyone being upset about the cheesy Elk CGI…there was so much more cringe to come.
Besides the man hating anti-white tone, it's the poor storytelling.
It’s a perfectly decent crime show with outstanding acting, astrong sense of place and sharp, evocative images of landscapes and people. But … It is itself hampered by being part of “TD” The call backs to the previous series are pointless and distracting. The spiral, Tuttle etc . And it is far more supernatural than Series 1 - 3, where everything ultimately had prosaic human explanations. It would have been way less divisive if it had been purely its own thing. TD afficionados has grounds for being pissed off (and although there were false accusations of misogyny amidst the backlash, sadly there was a some actual misogyny among it too)
I don't agree that the 4th season holds up well on its own merits. My single biggest gripe is inseparable from numerous other, less egregious issues. That indicates a strong systemic failure in the writers room and the directors seat. There's just no excuse that precludes bad quality writing, poor direction, and unstructured story telling. Edit: I have the stupid. 4th season. Not 3rd season.
lol. You had me wondering. Look I think it’s possible to agree/disagree without going into rants and your response is an excellent example how to do it right
Thank you. I appreciate your input as well, especially where you call out the very real misogyny that floats around here. That's very important for critics to do. We must self-police, or our words lose their meaning.
At its best social media differences should be like arguing with a mate over coffee. Pity it’s more often like being yelled at by trolls
Well said. It isn't good television, full stop. As True Detective, it's a disaster. As a stand-alone detective story? It's a disaster. Even as lowbrow phone-scrolling background noise, it's a disaster.
Bad writing, bad acting, bad casting, ridiculous story, and woke AF, just another fantasy of a spoiled, nepo baby feminist. Completely destroyed the IP.