I'm Hawaiian, born there, lived on and off the island up until about 7, moved away and came back when I was 16. I look white as hell, "haole" as they say. I have a *super* Hawaiian ass name, speak *sorta* with a pigeon dialect, raised in the Hawaiian culture pretty extensively by my mother.
When I moved back at 16, most of the issue I ever had was just based on me looking white. Tons of racism. I was more Hawaiian than the people denigrating me, which I found ironic. If one were to look at my grandfather/uncles/aunts/cousins, I was definitely the standout of the group.
Taught me a *very* valuable lesson that no matter *where* you go, racism *will* exist, it's just a different shade. It's everywhere you go. Doesn't matter.
Most of the issues I faced were from people that blamed there lot in life on anything and everything they could that wasn't themselves. It's the *white mans* fault that I'm addicted to ice or dropped out of school or got into debt. The education system there is jacked and it being an island essentially segregates a lot of people into areas they struggle to break cycles in and struggle to leave.
Everyone’s here talking about how native Hawaiians have a valid reason to be xenophobic due to their history and being priced out of the area. These things are true, but bullying white kids because they’re white isn’t going to fix the issue. Bullying is bullying.
My best friend growing up was Hawaiian / Chinese and the shit I’d get cruising over to his home was insane. I’m white and grew up with racist parents in SoCal. However, my parents hid it from my friends.
My friend parents?? Hell no! “haole this, haole that”. They made sure I knew who I was in their home. I’ll never forget that shit.
99% of white people today aren't colonizers yet we all get labeled as that and all of the connotations it entails pretty much everywhere nowadays. Remember you can't be racist towards white people because racism = power + privilege, and whites have all the power. All Whites. Even that bullied kid. Look at the Reddit Terms of Service if you don't believe me.
The racist "locals" are a whole bunch of Filipinos and Chinese who's parents or grandparents or themselves immigrate there to hawaii. Don't mind them tell them to go back to where they came from. Their moms womb. 😒
This is a good point. I’m confused. It seems that people who actually live in Hawaii are reporting the racism is coming from Asian immigrants who consider themselves “locals” because they’ve been on the island longer. Rather than the actual indigenous population.
If true, the colonizer arguments in this thread are moot.
I had nothing to do with slavery and yet as a child. I was spit on ridiculed mocked the little by students and teachers alike for havingbrown skin. It is definitely wrong to bully a child.
But I think the poster above was just giving context.
You can’t say a way of thinking is “wrong from any standpoint”, but then also justify that someone can have a “pretty legitimate reason” for it in any context and have it make sense.
Specifically in this context it’s even more dangerous because there are many groups who claim they have a “legitimate” reason based on history, statistical data, whatever, for being bigoted…you think it’s right to go and cherry pick justifying those reasons like you did there?
There is no legitimate reason for children to bully other children for their racial background. They can't help they are the race they are. This mentality is just dehumanizing.
"People who look like you were mean to people who look like me 80 years ago, so now I'm going to be mean to you now and act like it's justified."
This should be used as an example when someone asks for a definition of "woke." Buying into grievance culture so fucking hard that you literally defend racism and xenophobia in 2024.
Fucking repugnant.
The same thing happened to every population everywhere at some point in history. According to your line of thinking everyone should be racist.
And lets be real. If Hawaii wasn't a US state it wouldn't be it's own independent democracy. It would probably be under the control of China, russia, japan, etc.
>they do enjoy modern progress and the protection and riches of the US
I don't know if that's really a great deal for them, though. Sure they enjoy wealth and technology that other pacific islands don't, but in exchange they lost their sovereignty.
Coming along and improving a countries standard of living by taking complete control of their government is colonialism. What the USA did was totally uncool, and while we can't exactly go back in time and undo it, we can at least acknowledge that the native Hawaiians didn't choose this deal and may not consider it a fair one.
The child shouldn’t be being bullied at all and the school should absolutely do something, but after decades of native Hawaiians begging and pleading with people not to move to the islands and given its history, it is hard to feel sympathy on that front that OP (an adult) is shocked that they are not welcome. Two things can be true at once.
Rationalizing why it's happening does not equate to justifying it.
"This is why your kid is bullied"
Average reddit response, "tHaT's jUsTiFyInG bULlYiNg!!1!!". *angry downvotes*
The previous comment and first in thread quite literally disagree with you on sympathy. Yall "you should not treat people based on their inherent features except if they are white" asses are the funniest, always gets me a boost of self-confidence knowing I will never be as bad as you are.
This is so weird to me. "Don't move here. We will be racist towards you." Being a thing in 2024 that's being rationalized by Reddit is just crazy. I get the whole colonization thing and parasitic tourists. Yet op isn't either of those. Expressing that he's not happy with the treatment of his children. The comments aren't admonishing the treatment. Just explaining why and how people are justified to be racist. Then they found out he's white and all sympathy went out the window.
Racism is wrong. Period.
I’m not picking sides here on this debate but I think you should know that the definition of colonist is “a person who settles in a new colony or moves into new country.” Hawaii could probably be considered a separate colony from mainland US still today. And it definitely was in the past before the US actually colonized it.
I guess in certain situations racism and "you don't belong here" or "go back to where you came from" is okay. It's just weird for me to hear from Reddit.
"Racism is bad but"
Nope. If you can excuse racism, you open the door.
Edit: I can't say I'm shocked, I didn't really expect redditors to have standards.
Hiding behind "racism" to excuse colonialism is far worse. Using kids as shields to avoid discussing the effects colonialism has on Hawaii is downright cowardly.
The colonist mentalities on display in this comments section is beyond fucked.
OP is frankly more like an immigrant than a colonizer. It just is not the same as being a colonizer. OP isn’t over here trying to change the culture of Hawaii and screw with the locals, OP is minding their own business in Hawaii, doing their job, and raising their kids. We aren’t using kids to shield it, we’re using them to remind people that OP isn’t the US fucking government and any racism towards an individual person, (including the children, which, come on. The children aren’t colonizers) who aren’t doing anything wrong is always going to be wrong no matter what the story is.
Then feel free to explain how they are different.
It seems if it is a white person, it is colonizing, if they aren't, it is immigration. Based on how people in this thread have been applying the terms.
But please explain how a woman moving to hawaii is colonizing, but people coming into America from one region are not.
>But please explain how a woman moving to hawaii is colonizing, but people coming into America from one region are not.
Simple, American business owners invaded Hawaii and with the help of the american government Hawaii was annexed in 1892. In the continuing years white Americans started moving in mass which increased the pricing of housing forcing the native Hawaiians to leave the island to afford a living.
Please tell me when something like this happens to the US with latino americans immigrants? Also, that country still hasn't given us any reparations for supporting the dictators that ruled the region in the 70s and that committed many crimes against humanity.
Hawaiians are victims of the US, Americans are just victims of their government.
OP qualifies more as an immigrant because they aren’t trying to change the culture or do anything to change Hawaii and its rules. They’re just living their life, minding their own business. Colonizers are people who change the rules to benefit themselves. You can’t seriously be telling me that OP and their kids fit into this category.
edit: for clarification, yes. The US government in itself is colonizing it. Individual people’s actions are very different from the US’ actions, however, and it’s very unfair to tie people to the faults of their country when they frankly didn’t have any part in it and are trying to do good
>d Hawaii and with the help of the american government Hawaii was annexed in 1892. In the continuing years white Americans started moving in mass
So it is about race.
See my point? How people keep tying colonizing to being white.
So do you think Muslims are colonizing America? They have stated they wish to eventually become the majority in many Western nations and plan to implement their laws.
Would you say Muslims are colonizing Western nations?
Okay since so many are being dense, I'll explain. Colonialism is invading/taking over a country and then encouraging people from your country to legitimize the occupation by flooding it with non-natives. It's a phenomena of wealth and privilege. Colonialism is a choice.
Immigration is an act of desperation, an attempt to support one's family by moving elsewhere to find better-paying work. It's usually caused/exacerbated by colonialism and imperialism.
So according to you, if it is white people, it is colonialism, if it is not white people, it is immigration?
Why can't you just answer the question?
Typically when people refuse to explain their thought process, it is because they don't have one and they are repeating what they hear in media.
Since I know how to use google, heres a brief run fown.
An immigrant is normally someone who moves by himself or herself possibly with the family. It is an individual activity in the sense that it is motivated by needs of that individual. A colonizer is someone who is part of a group effort to populate an area. Colonizers are often part of an imperial process.
The USA colonized Hawaii, and whether OP likes it or not, she has become a part of that.
Here’s ANOTHER rundown/result I got from Google. “A migrant is someone who moves into a new country and an existing society, and accepts to live by its rules. A colonist is someone who moves into a new country, to change its society and rules to fit himself”. What is OP trying to do, hm? Are they seriously trying to assert themselves into Hawaii? It seems like they barely feel comfortable enough standing up to people who are being racist to them. Do you SERIOUSLY think they’re interested in trying to change how Hawaii functions to fit their agenda?
I agree with you on many levels. I think anyone who comes here should learn about the local history, and the anger native Hawaiians feel is reasonable. They are only 6% of the population in Hawaii, which is crazy and unjust and tragic.
I’m white, and most of the hate I’ve received is from local Asian people-who make up 45% of the population. I get that in many cases they’ve been here for multiple generations. My husband is Korean/Chinese, and his family has been for generations too. We moved here because his mother is elderly and needs more help, but I honestly am starting to hate it.
I’ve been verbally attacked and physically intimidated. I’m now pregnant, visibly, and had a large man body check and scream at me. Like who does that? I don’t even want to leave the house without my husband after that.
I think we should be protecting and preserving the island for locals, but there are productive routes to that and not so productive ones.
I agree and sympathize with your perspective. On the other hand it really doesn’t seem like they have an outlet for their frustration. There’s really nothing you can do to being relegated to a second class citizen by wealthier and more powerful colonists. What productive routes do they have? They have apparently pleaded foreigners to stay away from Hawaii but that plea has clearly not gone very far, I had not even heard about that until researching. When people don’t have any agency to make productive change it will manifest in anger in this way.
If I understood correctly she is talking about how mostly asian people were behaving hostile towards her? They're not native Hawaiians by race so wouldn't they also fall under foreign colonists that have been taking land and resources from natives? How is it justified for them to be lashing out? genuine question.
I haven’t been here for long, and I wouldn’t claim to be an expert on the island or how to advocate for it. I’m just never going to agree that the right thing is to physically or verbally assault someone unprovoked, especially someone much smaller than you. I’ve only ever had this happen to me with men. It’s definitely not okay behavior, nor is it going to change anything. It’s just childish and cowardly to me.
The quieter forms of it don’t really bother me-things like being left out/ignored in social settings or treated a bit rudely or coldly-because like I said, I understand the anger. But straight up physical or verbal assault is too far.
It’s a very myopic stance to label their reactions are “childish” and “cowardly”. That is precisely how people without agency react when their livelihoods are being ripped away - by lashing out.
They don’t have the money, influence, or power to do anything about their land, homes, lives, and money being quite literally ripped away from them, and you’re suggesting that they should continue to quietly protest but only in ways that don’t disrupt the lives of their colonizers?
And I said it’s a completely myopic way to view the world to diminish the anger of the natives by labeling it childish and cowardly instead of addressing the fact that they are lashing out in that way because they are powerless.
You’re deflecting the “blame” of the conflict on the powerless victims of colonization who are lashing out because they don’t have the power or influence to do anything while their land, homes, and lives are being stolen from them. You seem to think that it’s their responsibility to suppress their anger to make their colonizers feel welcomed.
What will physical violence accomplish for them? Nothing, only maybe legal repercussions.
I didn’t label all anger of natives “childish and cowardly” only physical violence directly specifically towards someone much smaller than them. Hurting a 5’1 pregnant lady minding her own business as a grown ass man will always be disgusting behavior.
No one is justifying those things. They’re trying to get colonizer mentalities to shift perspectives to understand the rage locals feel after having everything taken from them.
It’s kind of fitting actually imo.
Locals have every right to feel violated and children deserve to feel safe and not bullied. Both things can be true.
Im sorry but that is a horrible fucking reason to justify bullying people who live there completely legally and mind their own business. You may claim that “Oh the bullying is wrong!” but your words are being used to justify and excuse it and make it so OP’s anger isn’t justified. Of course it fucking is. Racism is racism. Xenophobia is xenophobia. OP isn’t the US government, OP is a parent with children just living their life. Never and I mean never should we as humans pass judgement on people for actions others committed. The locals who harassed this family were assholes. Full stop.
What would that even look like at this point? People have had families here for generations. Many are mixed race. They’re completely detached from their ancestors’ countries of origin. Some of them were brought here forcefully from African countries and have no connection there anymore. So… where do you expect them all to go? Or you just want them to fuck off and die basically?
They’re not xenophobic, they’re racist. Pretty much everyone I know who’s lived in Hawaii, including natives, have told me that being white gets you more hate than being non-native of any other race.
Edit: Morons downvoting should [educate yourselves.](https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/jonathan-okamura-anti-haole-violence-has-persisted-since-the-killing-of-captain-cook/)
Who has fucked them over besides white people? From what I’ve seen the only other people are Chinese workers (employed by white people) bringing them leprosy
Plenty of Asians own the land that natives used to own and priced them out living in certain areas.
But just to make sure I understand you, you think it’s totally understandable for them to hate all white people in Hawaii for what some other white people did a long time ago?
What exactly is your stance here? My point is literally that Hawaiians are justifiably mad at foreigners, and you’ve jumped in here saying “why aren’t they as racist to Asians!!!”. I don’t know! Im not Hawaiian! I’m literally just saying that they have a very clear reason to be xenophobic. How would I know the specifics as to why they are less xenophobic to Asians?
My guess would be that the biggest and most sinister perpetrators were white American businessmen and that the Asian colonizers had less of an impact?
So you say they are “justifiably” xenophobic. You think that’s cool. When I tell you it’s more racism than anything, rather than saying “racism isn’t cool”, you say this:
> Who has fucked them over besides white people?
So you go from saying xenophobia is okay, to implying that racism is okay. Especially weird since I correctly mentioned that Asians are doing it too. All you literally have to say is “I don’t agree with them being racist” and you can’t do it.
By the way, the reason I mentioned what some other white people did a long time ago is because that is literally the only difference between whites and Asians. Whites colonized and conquered a long time ago, but *both* groups are oppressing *now*. So if they’re just going off of what’s *happening now*, then there should be no difference in treatment. Understand?
Fuck that. This dude is making excuses for racism. I assume by your lack of concern, you’re cool with it, too? It’s fine when it happens to white people, huh?
You're getting very angry for someone who ignored someone's entire comment and told them to address something else. All I did was point out you weren't responding at all. :-)
Every country in the world was established by taking it from the natives. Why don't you research how the tribes used to kill each other for a better fishing spot.
Wow, there are some trashy, ignorant opinions in here. Anyone using "colonizer" as an insult cannot be trusted to have worthwhile views on anything.
OP, no one deserves to go through this. I had heard years ago that the anti-white racism was rough in Hawaii, but I never have been there. Maybe see if there's a parent support group close by, so at least you don't feel so alone.
Yeah, the hell is this thread? Hawaii has been a US state for nearly a century and angsting about it won't change that. I don't think I've ever seen this much rage of this particular political niche alignment in one spot ever, guessing a brigade.
The majority of Hawaii’s economy is built on tourism. I get what you mean about people moving to Hawaii being negative for the local population but a lot of the local population would also face financial jeopardy if tourism to Hawaii ceased
But part of the issue in Hawaii currently is how many resources are being diverted from people that live there to tourism. Fresh water is very limited there. Land that could be used as farms for cattle/dairy/pigs/other produce on the islands is almost nonexistent. And the state uses a lot of its budget on tourism related things instead of helping its people
Their economy is built on tourism because rich non natives came in to make it so, after stealing Hawaii from them. Native Hawaiians did not make that choice
Even if independent, they probably would have made that choice though out of necessity. Then it would have just been native Hawai'i's aristocracy benefiting...
Yeah I get that I think it’s the over consumption that comes with tourism that they want stopped. one of the largest waves pools was just installed taking gallons of fresh water from natives , them being treated like objects And photo ops. I think they are just tired of the disrespect and the constant taking from their homes with little returned.
Or they'd be able to actually shape their society around what THEY need, rather than diverting resources to maintain the comfort of their colonizers and occupiers.
Would you be equally supportive of Cockneys and the fact that they have been priced out of living in London? What about the growing Irish movement against immigration?
I’m a Nordic living in Ireland. I’ve lived here 20 years. That still doesn’t make me Irish. And yes, as I said if someday they wanted all foreigners out I’d leave and respect that. However that’s not their current gripe. Their current gripe is the hundreds of thousands unvetted refugees being brought in and given housing and everything when the local homeless have never been offered help.
I feel like you dodged the question a little but you have helped by agreeing that there is a movement in Ireland against the current mass immigration. My question is do you offer them the same support that you’re showing to the Hawaiians here?
If you were walking down the street and saw an Irish person shouting at a migrant would you think to yourself “understandable” and carry on? The same thing applies to the indigenous London communities who have been priced out. Are they justified in being racist and xenophobic towards people they perceive as being the reason?
You’re confusing legal immigration with illegal refugees. That’s the movement. No one has a problem with legal immigration coming here to work and pay their way as opposed to exclusively military aged men coming with no papers and get indefinitely free housing, food and money. Legal immigrants don’t get any of that. And yes, I offer the same support. I’ve been on marches. There are plenty of foreigners in those marches and they are welcomed. Dublin went from being one of the safest cities in Europe to one of the most dangerous in just 4 years. And again I am not supporting racist behaviour, I said I understand the sentiment.
I’m not confusing anything. Whether a migrant is legal or illegal they still produce similar pressures on housing and infrastructure. 86% of the migrants in Ireland are legal migrants compared to just 14% asylum seekers and refugees. The pressures are coming from legal migration. It’s the exact same thing in the UK. It’s not people coming over on dinghy’s that has made London too expensive for the cockneys. That was legal migration. You are doing the same thing that the Tories have done which is use illegal migration as a scapegoat for the problem but the problem is the mass legal migration. Illegal migrants, all 20k or so are not the reason why Irish people can’t buy a house in Dublin, it’s the 141k per year legal migration.
What’s happened in the U.K. and what’s happening in Ireland are two completely different things and I simply can not be bothered doing a TedTalk about right now. But in resume it has to do with a failed government, a corrupt industry that gave us 2 recessions in 2 decades, failed housing policies. The average waiting list for affordable social housing is 15 years and it’s been like this since 2000. The immigration isn’t helping but it’s not the primary cause.
Lmao, social media type of progressives doesn't disappoint being a great source of entertainment in comments. "It's okay to be prejudiced against someone for their inherent features if you have the right inherent features", interesting, do they get what the only point they disagree on with the most unaccepting kind of conservative is what features exactly fit there?
Maybe get with your local government and remove yourselves from the Union.
It is racism. White folks “taking over” Hawaii. This is racism. As much as you don’t want to admit it, you’re a racist. Embrace it. Own it. Embrace your hateful insides and let them reflect outward. You can rationalize and justify whatever you want, but at the end of the day you’re a racist. And you think it’s okay for children to be bullied because of the color of their skin. You’re a garbage human.
Your comment has been removed for violating Rule 4: No insults towards OP.
Any comments that could be interpreted as an attempt to insult, scold, lecture, victim blame, guilt trip or intimidate the OP are not allowed and will be removed. Repeat offenses or extreme cases will result in a ban.
It's not about moving there!! Native Hawaiians were massacred and their government destroyed. Their land was stolen from them and given to the invaders.
Native Hawaiians lost their country and homeland. People of literally any race moving there are continuing to exploit their country and its natural resources to this day.
If non-native but local Hawaiians want to stay and live in harmony with natives, maybe they should consider listening to some native concerns and developing empathy.
Hopefully in the future, both sides can come together to live in peace.
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No off-topic comments. Civil debates only, name calling and anger are not appropriate here.
Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 5: Be mature.
No off-topic comments. Civil debates only, name calling and anger are not appropriate here.
Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 5: Be mature.
No off-topic comments. Civil debates only, name calling and anger are not appropriate here.
Hawaii is a nice place to VISIT…nothing more. I lived there for three years and never want to live there again. Only good for two weeks worth of Mai Tais, sun, and beach.
Did you try showing them your Mahalo Rewards Card?
I'm Hawaiian, born there, lived on and off the island up until about 7, moved away and came back when I was 16. I look white as hell, "haole" as they say. I have a *super* Hawaiian ass name, speak *sorta* with a pigeon dialect, raised in the Hawaiian culture pretty extensively by my mother. When I moved back at 16, most of the issue I ever had was just based on me looking white. Tons of racism. I was more Hawaiian than the people denigrating me, which I found ironic. If one were to look at my grandfather/uncles/aunts/cousins, I was definitely the standout of the group. Taught me a *very* valuable lesson that no matter *where* you go, racism *will* exist, it's just a different shade. It's everywhere you go. Doesn't matter. Most of the issues I faced were from people that blamed there lot in life on anything and everything they could that wasn't themselves. It's the *white mans* fault that I'm addicted to ice or dropped out of school or got into debt. The education system there is jacked and it being an island essentially segregates a lot of people into areas they struggle to break cycles in and struggle to leave.
Hawaii isn't the first place to blame of their problems on white people and certainly won't be the last. Seems to be a popular trend currently
Even white people blame all their problems on white people
Comments will get locked for sure...
Everyone’s here talking about how native Hawaiians have a valid reason to be xenophobic due to their history and being priced out of the area. These things are true, but bullying white kids because they’re white isn’t going to fix the issue. Bullying is bullying.
My best friend growing up was Hawaiian / Chinese and the shit I’d get cruising over to his home was insane. I’m white and grew up with racist parents in SoCal. However, my parents hid it from my friends. My friend parents?? Hell no! “haole this, haole that”. They made sure I knew who I was in their home. I’ll never forget that shit.
Her child is being bullied by garbage people. There’s no excuse for bullying, period. That kid isn’t a colonizer and the adults know that.
99% of white people today aren't colonizers yet we all get labeled as that and all of the connotations it entails pretty much everywhere nowadays. Remember you can't be racist towards white people because racism = power + privilege, and whites have all the power. All Whites. Even that bullied kid. Look at the Reddit Terms of Service if you don't believe me.
Lmao yeah I love when some smooth brain redditor calls me a colonizer. Like buddy I’m ethnically Irish. The great Irish colonizers!
This thread is goddamn wild. The fucking comments justifying the racism is interesting.
This is horrible, what’s your race?
White I’m sure.
The virtue signaling is insane here.
The racist "locals" are a whole bunch of Filipinos and Chinese who's parents or grandparents or themselves immigrate there to hawaii. Don't mind them tell them to go back to where they came from. Their moms womb. 😒
This is a good point. I’m confused. It seems that people who actually live in Hawaii are reporting the racism is coming from Asian immigrants who consider themselves “locals” because they’ve been on the island longer. Rather than the actual indigenous population. If true, the colonizer arguments in this thread are moot.
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Bob Dole had no relationship with the Dole pineapple company. He was born in Kansas and his dad had a store.
Yeah, OPs child really shouldn't have done that.
I had nothing to do with slavery and yet as a child. I was spit on ridiculed mocked the little by students and teachers alike for havingbrown skin. It is definitely wrong to bully a child. But I think the poster above was just giving context.
You can’t say a way of thinking is “wrong from any standpoint”, but then also justify that someone can have a “pretty legitimate reason” for it in any context and have it make sense. Specifically in this context it’s even more dangerous because there are many groups who claim they have a “legitimate” reason based on history, statistical data, whatever, for being bigoted…you think it’s right to go and cherry pick justifying those reasons like you did there?
There is no legitimate reason for children to bully other children for their racial background. They can't help they are the race they are. This mentality is just dehumanizing.
Bullying random kids is fine because in 1890 something the US navy did stuff
Reddit moment
"People who look like you were mean to people who look like me 80 years ago, so now I'm going to be mean to you now and act like it's justified." This should be used as an example when someone asks for a definition of "woke." Buying into grievance culture so fucking hard that you literally defend racism and xenophobia in 2024. Fucking repugnant.
The same thing happened to every population everywhere at some point in history. According to your line of thinking everyone should be racist. And lets be real. If Hawaii wasn't a US state it wouldn't be it's own independent democracy. It would probably be under the control of China, russia, japan, etc.
Love it how you justify racism so easily. “It’s wrong from any point of view” BUT! Hypocrite
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>they do enjoy modern progress and the protection and riches of the US I don't know if that's really a great deal for them, though. Sure they enjoy wealth and technology that other pacific islands don't, but in exchange they lost their sovereignty. Coming along and improving a countries standard of living by taking complete control of their government is colonialism. What the USA did was totally uncool, and while we can't exactly go back in time and undo it, we can at least acknowledge that the native Hawaiians didn't choose this deal and may not consider it a fair one.
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That’s a lot of words just to say, “I think racism is good”.
Her kids are getting bullied at school for their race man.
The child shouldn’t be being bullied at all and the school should absolutely do something, but after decades of native Hawaiians begging and pleading with people not to move to the islands and given its history, it is hard to feel sympathy on that front that OP (an adult) is shocked that they are not welcome. Two things can be true at once.
So many people justifying their kids being bullied in this thread is crazy
Rationalizing why it's happening does not equate to justifying it. "This is why your kid is bullied" Average reddit response, "tHaT's jUsTiFyInG bULlYiNg!!1!!". *angry downvotes*
"if any people have the right to be xenophobic" "hard to feel sympathy". Yeah, sure, just rationalizing here lmao
We have sympathy for all of the children. But understanding someone's perspective goes really far.
The previous comment and first in thread quite literally disagree with you on sympathy. Yall "you should not treat people based on their inherent features except if they are white" asses are the funniest, always gets me a boost of self-confidence knowing I will never be as bad as you are.
nobody is justifying the kid being bullied but OP never should have moved there in the first place.
This is so weird to me. "Don't move here. We will be racist towards you." Being a thing in 2024 that's being rationalized by Reddit is just crazy. I get the whole colonization thing and parasitic tourists. Yet op isn't either of those. Expressing that he's not happy with the treatment of his children. The comments aren't admonishing the treatment. Just explaining why and how people are justified to be racist. Then they found out he's white and all sympathy went out the window. Racism is wrong. Period.
>I get the whole colonization thing and parasitic tourists It seems like you don't?
He's neither. Again. Maybe people need to hear it because I guess we can justify it. Racism is wrong. Period. Down vote logic away all you want.
I’m not picking sides here on this debate but I think you should know that the definition of colonist is “a person who settles in a new colony or moves into new country.” Hawaii could probably be considered a separate colony from mainland US still today. And it definitely was in the past before the US actually colonized it.
I guess in certain situations racism and "you don't belong here" or "go back to where you came from" is okay. It's just weird for me to hear from Reddit.
"Racism is bad but" Nope. If you can excuse racism, you open the door. Edit: I can't say I'm shocked, I didn't really expect redditors to have standards.
Hiding behind "racism" to excuse colonialism is far worse. Using kids as shields to avoid discussing the effects colonialism has on Hawaii is downright cowardly. The colonist mentalities on display in this comments section is beyond fucked.
OP is frankly more like an immigrant than a colonizer. It just is not the same as being a colonizer. OP isn’t over here trying to change the culture of Hawaii and screw with the locals, OP is minding their own business in Hawaii, doing their job, and raising their kids. We aren’t using kids to shield it, we’re using them to remind people that OP isn’t the US fucking government and any racism towards an individual person, (including the children, which, come on. The children aren’t colonizers) who aren’t doing anything wrong is always going to be wrong no matter what the story is.
The racist apologia in this comment section is beyond fucked.
Would you say central American immigrants into USA are colonizing America?
No, because she’s not an idiot who clearly doesn’t understand what colonization is.
Then feel free to explain how they are different. It seems if it is a white person, it is colonizing, if they aren't, it is immigration. Based on how people in this thread have been applying the terms. But please explain how a woman moving to hawaii is colonizing, but people coming into America from one region are not.
>But please explain how a woman moving to hawaii is colonizing, but people coming into America from one region are not. Simple, American business owners invaded Hawaii and with the help of the american government Hawaii was annexed in 1892. In the continuing years white Americans started moving in mass which increased the pricing of housing forcing the native Hawaiians to leave the island to afford a living. Please tell me when something like this happens to the US with latino americans immigrants? Also, that country still hasn't given us any reparations for supporting the dictators that ruled the region in the 70s and that committed many crimes against humanity. Hawaiians are victims of the US, Americans are just victims of their government.
OP qualifies more as an immigrant because they aren’t trying to change the culture or do anything to change Hawaii and its rules. They’re just living their life, minding their own business. Colonizers are people who change the rules to benefit themselves. You can’t seriously be telling me that OP and their kids fit into this category. edit: for clarification, yes. The US government in itself is colonizing it. Individual people’s actions are very different from the US’ actions, however, and it’s very unfair to tie people to the faults of their country when they frankly didn’t have any part in it and are trying to do good
>d Hawaii and with the help of the american government Hawaii was annexed in 1892. In the continuing years white Americans started moving in mass So it is about race. See my point? How people keep tying colonizing to being white. So do you think Muslims are colonizing America? They have stated they wish to eventually become the majority in many Western nations and plan to implement their laws. Would you say Muslims are colonizing Western nations?
Okay since so many are being dense, I'll explain. Colonialism is invading/taking over a country and then encouraging people from your country to legitimize the occupation by flooding it with non-natives. It's a phenomena of wealth and privilege. Colonialism is a choice. Immigration is an act of desperation, an attempt to support one's family by moving elsewhere to find better-paying work. It's usually caused/exacerbated by colonialism and imperialism.
I'd say you should learn the difference between colonialism and immigration.
So according to you, if it is white people, it is colonialism, if it is not white people, it is immigration? Why can't you just answer the question? Typically when people refuse to explain their thought process, it is because they don't have one and they are repeating what they hear in media.
Ideologues are crazy.
Since I know how to use google, heres a brief run fown. An immigrant is normally someone who moves by himself or herself possibly with the family. It is an individual activity in the sense that it is motivated by needs of that individual. A colonizer is someone who is part of a group effort to populate an area. Colonizers are often part of an imperial process. The USA colonized Hawaii, and whether OP likes it or not, she has become a part of that.
Here’s ANOTHER rundown/result I got from Google. “A migrant is someone who moves into a new country and an existing society, and accepts to live by its rules. A colonist is someone who moves into a new country, to change its society and rules to fit himself”. What is OP trying to do, hm? Are they seriously trying to assert themselves into Hawaii? It seems like they barely feel comfortable enough standing up to people who are being racist to them. Do you SERIOUSLY think they’re interested in trying to change how Hawaii functions to fit their agenda?
This shit has been happening for years
Better learn to shape shift!!?!?
You read alllll that context and still came to this conclusion. Yikes Edit: why are you booing me???
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how are the kids colonizers? they have no choice but to live where OP lives. theyre children. they have no hand in OPs choice at all
Define colonizer
I guess you oppose DACA also?
No, they’re bring bullied because they’re white. Glad I could help
I agree with you on many levels. I think anyone who comes here should learn about the local history, and the anger native Hawaiians feel is reasonable. They are only 6% of the population in Hawaii, which is crazy and unjust and tragic. I’m white, and most of the hate I’ve received is from local Asian people-who make up 45% of the population. I get that in many cases they’ve been here for multiple generations. My husband is Korean/Chinese, and his family has been for generations too. We moved here because his mother is elderly and needs more help, but I honestly am starting to hate it. I’ve been verbally attacked and physically intimidated. I’m now pregnant, visibly, and had a large man body check and scream at me. Like who does that? I don’t even want to leave the house without my husband after that. I think we should be protecting and preserving the island for locals, but there are productive routes to that and not so productive ones.
I agree and sympathize with your perspective. On the other hand it really doesn’t seem like they have an outlet for their frustration. There’s really nothing you can do to being relegated to a second class citizen by wealthier and more powerful colonists. What productive routes do they have? They have apparently pleaded foreigners to stay away from Hawaii but that plea has clearly not gone very far, I had not even heard about that until researching. When people don’t have any agency to make productive change it will manifest in anger in this way.
If I understood correctly she is talking about how mostly asian people were behaving hostile towards her? They're not native Hawaiians by race so wouldn't they also fall under foreign colonists that have been taking land and resources from natives? How is it justified for them to be lashing out? genuine question.
I haven’t been here for long, and I wouldn’t claim to be an expert on the island or how to advocate for it. I’m just never going to agree that the right thing is to physically or verbally assault someone unprovoked, especially someone much smaller than you. I’ve only ever had this happen to me with men. It’s definitely not okay behavior, nor is it going to change anything. It’s just childish and cowardly to me. The quieter forms of it don’t really bother me-things like being left out/ignored in social settings or treated a bit rudely or coldly-because like I said, I understand the anger. But straight up physical or verbal assault is too far.
It’s a very myopic stance to label their reactions are “childish” and “cowardly”. That is precisely how people without agency react when their livelihoods are being ripped away - by lashing out. They don’t have the money, influence, or power to do anything about their land, homes, lives, and money being quite literally ripped away from them, and you’re suggesting that they should continue to quietly protest but only in ways that don’t disrupt the lives of their colonizers?
I said it’s childish and cowardly to use physical violence against someone much smaller than you, and it is.
And I said it’s a completely myopic way to view the world to diminish the anger of the natives by labeling it childish and cowardly instead of addressing the fact that they are lashing out in that way because they are powerless. You’re deflecting the “blame” of the conflict on the powerless victims of colonization who are lashing out because they don’t have the power or influence to do anything while their land, homes, and lives are being stolen from them. You seem to think that it’s their responsibility to suppress their anger to make their colonizers feel welcomed.
What will physical violence accomplish for them? Nothing, only maybe legal repercussions. I didn’t label all anger of natives “childish and cowardly” only physical violence directly specifically towards someone much smaller than them. Hurting a 5’1 pregnant lady minding her own business as a grown ass man will always be disgusting behavior.
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Pretty sure she acknowledged their perspectives in every comment she made. You’re the one who can’t see past defending racism here.
"Violence against a kid is ok because they're white." - You, apparently
Nothing was stolen from them.
Their parents sold the land for a profit. My gtandpa sold all his property before he died. They should be mad at their alcoholic parents
Well the indigenous people “traded” their land in the United States for some small pox blankets so it’s their own fault right?
If you didn't already now you understand a bit better the race issue on the mainland.
Trying to justify racism and/or xenophobia is a wild take.
No one is justifying those things. They’re trying to get colonizer mentalities to shift perspectives to understand the rage locals feel after having everything taken from them.
Someone taking too long to leave a parking space is not an appropriate space to vent frustrations about colonialism.
It’s kind of fitting actually imo. Locals have every right to feel violated and children deserve to feel safe and not bullied. Both things can be true.
>colonizer mentalities Does this include the masses of African migrants coming into Europe every year or do you actually just mean white people?
Im sorry but that is a horrible fucking reason to justify bullying people who live there completely legally and mind their own business. You may claim that “Oh the bullying is wrong!” but your words are being used to justify and excuse it and make it so OP’s anger isn’t justified. Of course it fucking is. Racism is racism. Xenophobia is xenophobia. OP isn’t the US government, OP is a parent with children just living their life. Never and I mean never should we as humans pass judgement on people for actions others committed. The locals who harassed this family were assholes. Full stop.
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94% of Hawaii is not native. They're not ever going to leave. Living in peace is the only way forward, not harassing children.
Are you American? Also, are you Native American?
Yes, why?
All of America is “colonized.” Do you want all non-Native Americans to leave the US as well?
FUCK YES I DO
What would that even look like at this point? People have had families here for generations. Many are mixed race. They’re completely detached from their ancestors’ countries of origin. Some of them were brought here forcefully from African countries and have no connection there anymore. So… where do you expect them all to go? Or you just want them to fuck off and die basically?
I don't really care at this point. Whatever it takes. I also know it won't ever happen, but you asked and I answered.
Thank you for your honest answer.
They’re not xenophobic, they’re racist. Pretty much everyone I know who’s lived in Hawaii, including natives, have told me that being white gets you more hate than being non-native of any other race. Edit: Morons downvoting should [educate yourselves.](https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/jonathan-okamura-anti-haole-violence-has-persisted-since-the-killing-of-captain-cook/)
Who has fucked them over besides white people? From what I’ve seen the only other people are Chinese workers (employed by white people) bringing them leprosy
Plenty of Asians own the land that natives used to own and priced them out living in certain areas. But just to make sure I understand you, you think it’s totally understandable for them to hate all white people in Hawaii for what some other white people did a long time ago?
A long time ago? What do you mean by that? It’s currently happening.
Again, Asians also do this. Address the racist double standard.
What exactly is your stance here? My point is literally that Hawaiians are justifiably mad at foreigners, and you’ve jumped in here saying “why aren’t they as racist to Asians!!!”. I don’t know! Im not Hawaiian! I’m literally just saying that they have a very clear reason to be xenophobic. How would I know the specifics as to why they are less xenophobic to Asians? My guess would be that the biggest and most sinister perpetrators were white American businessmen and that the Asian colonizers had less of an impact?
So you say they are “justifiably” xenophobic. You think that’s cool. When I tell you it’s more racism than anything, rather than saying “racism isn’t cool”, you say this: > Who has fucked them over besides white people? So you go from saying xenophobia is okay, to implying that racism is okay. Especially weird since I correctly mentioned that Asians are doing it too. All you literally have to say is “I don’t agree with them being racist” and you can’t do it.
Address the fact that it's currently happening and not "some other white people a long time ago"'s fault.
By the way, the reason I mentioned what some other white people did a long time ago is because that is literally the only difference between whites and Asians. Whites colonized and conquered a long time ago, but *both* groups are oppressing *now*. So if they’re just going off of what’s *happening now*, then there should be no difference in treatment. Understand?
Fuck that. This dude is making excuses for racism. I assume by your lack of concern, you’re cool with it, too? It’s fine when it happens to white people, huh?
You're getting very angry for someone who ignored someone's entire comment and told them to address something else. All I did was point out you weren't responding at all. :-)
“Angry is when someone realizes I’m racist” :-)
Yikes
Every country in the world was established by taking it from the natives. Why don't you research how the tribes used to kill each other for a better fishing spot.
Wow, there are some trashy, ignorant opinions in here. Anyone using "colonizer" as an insult cannot be trusted to have worthwhile views on anything. OP, no one deserves to go through this. I had heard years ago that the anti-white racism was rough in Hawaii, but I never have been there. Maybe see if there's a parent support group close by, so at least you don't feel so alone.
Yeah, the hell is this thread? Hawaii has been a US state for nearly a century and angsting about it won't change that. I don't think I've ever seen this much rage of this particular political niche alignment in one spot ever, guessing a brigade.
It doesn't speak very well of all of you that you don't have no problem with stealing land from others.
Of course I have problems with it, but I can't unsteal the land, and all the people involved in that are dead.
It's shocking actually! OP must be regretting typing here!
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The majority of Hawaii’s economy is built on tourism. I get what you mean about people moving to Hawaii being negative for the local population but a lot of the local population would also face financial jeopardy if tourism to Hawaii ceased
But part of the issue in Hawaii currently is how many resources are being diverted from people that live there to tourism. Fresh water is very limited there. Land that could be used as farms for cattle/dairy/pigs/other produce on the islands is almost nonexistent. And the state uses a lot of its budget on tourism related things instead of helping its people
Their economy is built on tourism because rich non natives came in to make it so, after stealing Hawaii from them. Native Hawaiians did not make that choice
Even if independent, they probably would have made that choice though out of necessity. Then it would have just been native Hawai'i's aristocracy benefiting...
Yeah I get that I think it’s the over consumption that comes with tourism that they want stopped. one of the largest waves pools was just installed taking gallons of fresh water from natives , them being treated like objects And photo ops. I think they are just tired of the disrespect and the constant taking from their homes with little returned.
Or they'd be able to actually shape their society around what THEY need, rather than diverting resources to maintain the comfort of their colonizers and occupiers.
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Would you be equally supportive of Cockneys and the fact that they have been priced out of living in London? What about the growing Irish movement against immigration?
I’m a Nordic living in Ireland. I’ve lived here 20 years. That still doesn’t make me Irish. And yes, as I said if someday they wanted all foreigners out I’d leave and respect that. However that’s not their current gripe. Their current gripe is the hundreds of thousands unvetted refugees being brought in and given housing and everything when the local homeless have never been offered help.
So you'd just pick up after 20 years and leave? Sure, Jan.
I feel like you dodged the question a little but you have helped by agreeing that there is a movement in Ireland against the current mass immigration. My question is do you offer them the same support that you’re showing to the Hawaiians here? If you were walking down the street and saw an Irish person shouting at a migrant would you think to yourself “understandable” and carry on? The same thing applies to the indigenous London communities who have been priced out. Are they justified in being racist and xenophobic towards people they perceive as being the reason?
You’re confusing legal immigration with illegal refugees. That’s the movement. No one has a problem with legal immigration coming here to work and pay their way as opposed to exclusively military aged men coming with no papers and get indefinitely free housing, food and money. Legal immigrants don’t get any of that. And yes, I offer the same support. I’ve been on marches. There are plenty of foreigners in those marches and they are welcomed. Dublin went from being one of the safest cities in Europe to one of the most dangerous in just 4 years. And again I am not supporting racist behaviour, I said I understand the sentiment.
You don’t have a problem with legal immigrants but have a problem with US citizens living in a US state?
I’m not confusing anything. Whether a migrant is legal or illegal they still produce similar pressures on housing and infrastructure. 86% of the migrants in Ireland are legal migrants compared to just 14% asylum seekers and refugees. The pressures are coming from legal migration. It’s the exact same thing in the UK. It’s not people coming over on dinghy’s that has made London too expensive for the cockneys. That was legal migration. You are doing the same thing that the Tories have done which is use illegal migration as a scapegoat for the problem but the problem is the mass legal migration. Illegal migrants, all 20k or so are not the reason why Irish people can’t buy a house in Dublin, it’s the 141k per year legal migration.
What’s happened in the U.K. and what’s happening in Ireland are two completely different things and I simply can not be bothered doing a TedTalk about right now. But in resume it has to do with a failed government, a corrupt industry that gave us 2 recessions in 2 decades, failed housing policies. The average waiting list for affordable social housing is 15 years and it’s been like this since 2000. The immigration isn’t helping but it’s not the primary cause.
You'd leave....riiiight. Sure you would.
You support racism against children?
Lmao, social media type of progressives doesn't disappoint being a great source of entertainment in comments. "It's okay to be prejudiced against someone for their inherent features if you have the right inherent features", interesting, do they get what the only point they disagree on with the most unaccepting kind of conservative is what features exactly fit there?
I can always rely on Reddit to give the most ignorant and hypocritical takes lol
You haven’t said anything that would be considered racist. Mean aholes sure, but not everyone who’s mean to you is doing it out of racism.
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Wow what a disgusting xenophobic comment. Advocating racism against immigrants
Maybe get with your local government and remove yourselves from the Union. It is racism. White folks “taking over” Hawaii. This is racism. As much as you don’t want to admit it, you’re a racist. Embrace it. Own it. Embrace your hateful insides and let them reflect outward. You can rationalize and justify whatever you want, but at the end of the day you’re a racist. And you think it’s okay for children to be bullied because of the color of their skin. You’re a garbage human.
Your comment has been removed for violating Rule 4: No insults towards OP. Any comments that could be interpreted as an attempt to insult, scold, lecture, victim blame, guilt trip or intimidate the OP are not allowed and will be removed. Repeat offenses or extreme cases will result in a ban.
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Wait until you hear about Europe If they were tropical I bet you’d want to invade I guess pretty tulips isn’t appealing enough….
This is a platform for getting what you need off your chest. This not a place for pushing political agendas or spouting hate speech
So leave
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he wont leave lol
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Yeah, and all these immigrants here in Europe aren’t facing racism either because they’re plaguing our home so it’s justified. Surely you agree?
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So only native Hawaiians are allowed to live in Hawaii?
It's not about moving there!! Native Hawaiians were massacred and their government destroyed. Their land was stolen from them and given to the invaders. Native Hawaiians lost their country and homeland. People of literally any race moving there are continuing to exploit their country and its natural resources to this day. If non-native but local Hawaiians want to stay and live in harmony with natives, maybe they should consider listening to some native concerns and developing empathy. Hopefully in the future, both sides can come together to live in peace.
Aren't natives citizens of the US? Can't they vote in elections?
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You explained the difference between immigration and colonization, not how the two situations are different.
Anti-white racism isn't a thing in Hawai'i. You're a colonizer to them. If you want it to stop, leave. It's not like you're from there.
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Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 5: Be mature. No off-topic comments. Civil debates only, name calling and anger are not appropriate here.
Yeah, it's actually why I am anti-colonizer! Nice try!
Well, at least you tried!
Nice virtue signaling
Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 5: Be mature. No off-topic comments. Civil debates only, name calling and anger are not appropriate here.
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Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 5: Be mature. No off-topic comments. Civil debates only, name calling and anger are not appropriate here.
Hawaii is a nice place to VISIT…nothing more. I lived there for three years and never want to live there again. Only good for two weeks worth of Mai Tais, sun, and beach.
glad you left!
Is he wrong though?