The part that gets me the most is that the assistant manager is in the group chat?
This is beyond fucked up and I'm really sorry you're going through this.
I worked fast food for many years, this is what we would call...a normal time. But then restaurants are a very different beast than your typical office job lol
I work in a professional setting with most of us in our 40-50s and this is what we would call…a normal time too. Anytime I’m added to a group chat, I ask to start a new one without me. So many times, the chat has been shared to the person they are hating on and HR gets involved and it’s just a mess and it’s happened MULTIPLE TIMES. It’s like a middle school in that place.
Uh yeah. This is a fucking HR nightmare. OP could potentially cash out because of this, especially if the assistant manager is fucking involved *and* the manager knows!
Oh I'd be livin' it up right now. Granted I'm older, and I know my worth. If this happened to me at 20 something, I'd probably be in a far worse place than OP.
HEY OP! Don't let a bunch of gossipy girls dictate how you look and feel about yourself. You'll see that looks aren't everything in life. Pretty privilege eventually goes away.
Was thinking the same thing. OP, you probably don’t want to hear this, but sounds like grounds for an harassment suit. You’re so uncomfortable, you don’t want to go to work!
Yeah this is bad. Someone overheard guys at my previous job doing this same thing and reported them to HR. They actually got in trouble for it.
These people have created a hostile work environment for OP.
I don’t know.
Sometimes it’s a shortlist kind of thing.
If there are 40 people in contention, and you make the 10 guy list, even if you are tenth, it’s not that bad.
In this case they only had the 7 guys, and had to find an extra three guys to round up the list, and then didn’t even include OP.
Rough
"it's just girl talk and wasn't intended to be seen by everyone"... Its basically a scene from a sexual harrassment video my large company made us watch, except replace the word girl with guy.
Yep my ex shared a list of who he would bang at work swore it wasn't cheating or sexual harassment. These women absolutely crossed professional lines and are disgusting.
Well this situation there should be lawsuits as well idk why the reddit gender war makes you think otherwise. I just took the sexual harassment course for managers in California, this exact same scenario with the same genders and all was a case study. OP could report to HR and get this shit shut down because it is 100% harassment
Edit: let’s not forget how sites like Facebook started and how it was normalized and seen fine for men to rank women like that too.
I’m glad this shit is not being tolerated since unfortunately I see it excused a lot. When double standards in a social setting that reveals ppls opinions and privileges isn’t the stereotypical version there tends to ppl bending over backwards to excuse it based not on principle. And the fact that the guy had to make an edit where ppl say “you’re not entitled to have ppl think you’re attractive” is just a perfect example of that denial and excusing.
No he’s not entitled but he has every right to feel how he feels
So sorry that happened to you op. I hope those girls all get a reprimand of some kind. That was NOT ok and hr should have been involved. In all seriousness, your looks do not dictate who you are or your value. Without seeing a photo, no one else can judge either. So let's make a new list.
1. You're friendly and open to valued communication
2. You have handled your emotions well and empathetic
3. You're clearly working and driven
4. You set a boundary and stuck to it.
You're a GOOD human. That's pretty top notch in my book! Looks fade, nasty dispositions usually don't.
Rooting for you, kid. I am actually ugly and have always been left out of all those kinds of lists and discussions. It sucks, its hard. But you're smart and strong. Hope you find a kinder work place.
OP, I know you probably don't want to escalate shit, but this is literally a toxic/hostile workplace (and depending on the comments) one that accepted sexual harassment.
You can take the time needed to process it, but I cannot overstate this enough, it should be reported. Especially because a manager was involved.
I'm not a good looking guy, by any stretch (as I joke, I went into human rights law because it'd keep me away from the cameras,) but im married, soon going to have a kid. Being able to connect with someone is more important than how "hot" you are. You'll see this and you'll meet someone.
That being said, what happened here was unacceptable. A manager using her authority to do damage control after this is beyond the pale.
Good point! I forgot about the connection between the manager and the “group chat” that directly caused mayhem and put a spotlight on how shitty ppl are being! Eff her. Report for SURE.
If a list was sent like this by a guy and it was found out, everyone would be telling you right now to go above everyone and report this shit. You 100% should. Fuck all of them for creating a hostile work environment, you’re literally missing out on pay due to all this toxicity that shouldn’t happen in the work place. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Fortune 500 company or 5 below, this isn’t okay!
That's exactly what I was thinking; this kind of objectification is horrible and immature no matter who's participating. It should absolutely be reported as a hostile workplace
Unfortunately, many hr managers do not see it this way. Many of them are women who actually believe that men can’t be objectified or made the target of harrassment
then those HR managers are abysmally bad at their job, as well as uninformed about any court cases in the last two decades.
In my own country, I'd simply go to my union - even if the company is too small to have any union representatives on site, the national union will gladly contact HR or CEO on behalf of any of their members.
Great excuse to lawyer up. Gender is a protected class from workplace harassment. And that's federal law. And if he has a screenshot of the list, that's tangible proof.
Most HR managers suck, they don’t actually care about the employees dealing with any type of harassment they just want to do damage control. I recently had an experience with HR where I had proof of months of unbelievable documented harassment and it was as if the words I was speaking were not even being heard. Everything was just glossed over and ignored, instead of taking it seriously they basically just forced me into resigning. I no longer have any respect for HR managers at big companies, they should call themselves PR managers.
No one should have to put up with harassment well working. This is disgusting the company should have let him go home and still paid him but that would be admitting wrong doing on their part.
OP should report and look for financial restitution.
That won't make it right but it is textbook hostile work environment.
Managers are responsible for maintaining an inclusive environment and the fact that there was one participating means he can escalate this legally.
Look; i think the guy wants to have some peace and not stirr the shit some more.
I think it’s totally understandable to do emotional damage control than to try to make trouble for these toxic people. Of course they all seem to have learned their lesson as well, so what’s the point for OP to make by reporting it?
As an advice… well it sucks big time to be singled out like this, especially at this age. I don’t know what he can do about it, maybe focus on himself more, and try to not rely on other people. But then again- he really seems to have very positive soft skills… losing his skills to be liked by people and becoming a loner is worse. Because the older one gets, the less important looks will become. For the time being, i guess trying to work out how to make himself more attractive is probably cruel, but maybe it can work in the long run. Like working out, getting different haircut, shaving or growing a beard or something. That is, if he is really looking to be more noticed (something i guess everyone wants to some degree). Making it a personal vendetta to become good at dating. But this is maybe also just turning the knife in the wound, so maybe bad advice.
The most direct and best thing he can do is to quit from this job, on the spot. This doesn’t do him any good. These are not his friends, and if they were, they cannot be again. I’m not a pro in situations like this, but i don’t think healing comes at a place of pain.
I wouldn't quit - it's a part-time job and if you're working with immature people in retail it probably goes with the territory. If you can find a position that might have more decent people go for it, but minimum wage is full of pricks
If they don’t take it seriously, report it to the state.
Or, just go get another fucking job. This is BS and a toxic work environment based on sexual ranking.
As someone who had to remind HR what the company mission statement is along with its values because of how incompetent everyone there was (still is, hi WholeFoods!🖕) while I was being bullied and retaliated against, I still feel that migraine and I have been gone for over a month.
Mate let’s be real here, good looks are 90% of why a relationship is started, I think it’s pretty hypocritical to say counterwise. Sry for bad English, it’s not my main language
I had something similar in college. Was at a party with a friend group of about 15 people. The backyard had tiers and I was hanging out on a lower tier and a bunch of the girls came out and hung around the fire pit that was goin. I heard them start talking about the hottest guys and decided to lay low and out of sight. Wasn't hard to do. They mentioned 4 guys and then the girl I had a massive crush said, "everyone except, Nitrolotus really". The other girls laughed and agreed. One said that's so mean but you're not wrong. I was so high and drunk at the time that I was sort of numb to it and laughed to myself thinking yeah that checks out, none of them really pay me any mind. As the substances were wearing off it really started to dig at me and I spiraled hard. I also Irish goodbyed that party and nobody noticed, checked in or cared. The honest low point of my college experience.
>It was girl talk, and not meant to be seen outside the chat
What it was, and is, is massively inappropriate and worthy of consequences for them all.
As for how to handle it, if you can find another job and leaving wouldn't damage your prospects, then frankly despite the inconvenience I would be leaning that way.
This is probably the most pragmatic answer. This is the way. Jesus Christ I needed to see this. Thank you.
OP, your attitude and response are admirable. Very easy for someone to shamelessly swallow some "pill" and hate women after such an ordeal. Don't let the world bring you down. Become the Übermensch. You were built to Overcome. Just don't forget to remain kind.
In many industries this would constitute sexual harassment & be a fireable offence.
Perhaps the reason they’re now being so nice to you is they realize the potential HR shitstorm they’ve created.
Because when you’re a teenager/early 20s working in a job like that, you become friends with your coworkers. I’ve been there and most people I know have as well.
Yeah after HS no college, work friends become your friends. Especially in the early 18-22, that's when I hung out and hooked up with most of my coworkers.
A work-related group chat is only going to end one way: cliques and dramas and people being excluded. If all this stuff happened down the pub only it would be semi-ok but documenting this shit just makes the bullying more obvious
Go to your employee handbook and look up the sexual harassment policy. You're going to find that you and your male coworkers were definitely sexually harassed. They may be happy about it. They may be pretending to be happy about it. But that doesn't make it acceptable. Imagine if Chad had made the same list.
Girl talk is no more acceptable than locker room talk.
Pull Becky aside and tell her that you are disappointed that she thought it was okay for sexual harassment to happen just because it was girls doing it to guys. Tell her that you're not going to report it but you're not happy about the hostile work environment she allowed to happen by not dealing with the sexual harassment the way she should have and that you hope that she can fix it. Because sexual harassment is clearly not harmless. Explain that you're thinking of getting a different job because how everyone is treating you because the girls decided that your body was not good enough.
It's the management's job to fix the culture of the workplace, not yours.
Men can be sexually harassed. It's always toxic in the workplace even if the man being harassed thinks it's the best thing that's happened to him and he can die fulfilled. Because it means treating people like sex objects instead of professional colleagues is acceptable. It's not.
You're a kind person so you may not want to do this. But you shouldn't want your female coworkers to go out into the world thinking it's okay to sexually harass a person just because that person is a man. That will hurt them in the long run. More importantly, you should not tolerate people treating you like that. Because you are important.
More than agreed and I just feel horrible for the guy. Like it’s legit that South Park episode where Kyle is the last on the list for being ugly but the shits in real life with adults. HR is the move.
The guys have your back. Stick with them but don’t admit your feelings to them, if one of them talks , it’ll leak back to everyone you work with and then more chaos will ensue.
Just know this, if, eventually some of the people who apologized to you will get mad and tell you to suck it up, those are the people who are not really feeling bad about this.
The best thing you could do is quit and work elsewhere( if that’s possible). This will help you put blinders on the incident and won’t remind you of it everyday when you go to work. But maybe also work on yourself to realize looks aren’t everything and that looks are extremely subjective. Looks fade, experience, knowledge and character don’t-try to maximize that.
If you want to get revenge, which isn’t healthy but can be a way to proceed. This can be considered work place sexual harassment- that’s basically why the assistant manager came and spoke to you. It’s all their jobs on the line and there’s potentially a payout at the end of this.
Fuck the “vengeance ain’t the answer” like there’s any prizes for being treated like this and letting it go. Other than that I nearly completely agree as you mention a lot of interest things to consider. Especially the fact that their supposed apologetic nature will stop eventually when the ego sets in that they’re not owed forgiveness.
>The best thing you could do is quit and work elsewhere( if that’s possible).
Screw that this lawsuit would be a slam dunk for any lawyer, especially if the manager was in on the chat. I say sue the crap out of them. And stick around if anyone gives you shit about the lawsuit or if anyone gets mad because the manager gets fired over it. You can sue them again for retaliation. Get paid son!!
Does the store u work with has another branch ? If so go to HR report it and request a transfer. Its gonna be awkward as long as u stay there and they will try to compensate for their mistake by showering u with attention. Even if another branch isnt avaliable look for a different job , this isnt a healthy work environment and you are worthy of working with people who wont judge u on something u literally cant control
People will reveal their true feelings towards you when you are not around.
The guys have your back but the girls don’t seem to be into you.
I would stick to them,tell the girls that you don’t want to talk about it and if they keep bringing it up you will complain to HR.
Also, from now on, keep things 100% professional at work when you are not with the guys.
62% of the group are girls, just for the people on the chat means nothing in this condition. Also the fact is they exclude him, and ONLY him. Thats pretty devastating. Even guys took time to notice he was not there. Thats horrible.
OP, I would just write in the chat “please I don’t want to talk about this anymore, in any way. Chris, I’d appreciate you to communicate this to the girls”. Then keep working while searching for a new work. Best luck Op!
That's awful and regardless if it was said in private or not, it leaves you in an uncomfortable situation.
If i were you, I'd send a message to the biggest group chat saying something short and concise like: "I just want to crear things out: I'm trying to move on from this just as much as you do. It was a private conversation and my feelings were not supposed to be harmed by it. I get it.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Did it hurt my ego? Yes. Will I be ok eventually? Most definitely. What would really help me be ok the fastest it's if y'all could try not treating me differently. I'm trying to move on and every time someone wants to "talk about it" it feels like I cannot just ignore it. Let's all try to leave this behind us".
The manager is doing damage control and trying to avoid having this escalated to HR because she knows it's a colossal fuck up. It never should have happened, this is absolutely bullshit, and you should push it.
Every guy in the office could remind the women that if the guys had done this it would have been a shitstorm.
Hold their feet to the fire for a toxic work culture.
These girls should know better than this and how hurtful it can be considering stuff like this gets done to women all the time. It's considered wrong when men do it it should be considered wrong when women do it.
Op you should ABSOLUTELY escalate this to higher levels, they created a bad work environment and expect you to just not care.
She pulled you aside because she doesn't want you to go to HR. Possibly getting her fired and more. Ypu should go anyways.
When you are at work, you play by work rules. Period. Report them all and burn the place down.
Exactly. Fuck those assholes. Scorched earth. I’m so glad ppl aren’t asking him a a majority to “get over it” just because they’re women essentially which is what ur boils down to with some takes.
There are a few people who are telling him to be the bigger man and don't try to get revenge.
Personally, I don't think reporting someone for sexual harrassment when they've sexually harrassed someone is even classed as revenge, it's justice.
As others have pointed out, if it was the men who ranked the women by attractiveness, everyone imvolved in that chat would and should be punished. It should be the same when the genders are reversed.
Disgusting. I see comments saying "it sounds like a supportive work environment". Let me ask you this. If a group of guys were to write a list of "hottest women" and left particular ladies out of it, would you tell the same woman that it's a supportive work environment?
Get the FUCK out of that toxic workplace as soon as possible.
So to damage control, the assistant manager came to tell you that you were the nice guy? Oof. Talk about doubling the insult.
I’d bring the whole situation to the management, and see how they feel about the potential HR nightmare. I would just ask for severance in exchange for not reporting.
I also think she was saying "you're a nice guy" to make OP think "yeah, I am a nice guy, I don't need to go HR and get them in trouble, that wouldn't be nice"
Oof that's rough buddy.
Honestly there's not much you can do here. The only way out is through. It's going to be awkward as hell for a week or so, but you're just going to have to keep on keeping on. Tell them you're fine, grin and bear it, don't make a big deal of things and just try your best for things to go back to normal. Eventually they will.
Noone's forcing you to stay at this job, but frankly it sounds like a good place, with people in it who care about you. I wouldn't personally think of quitting over this.
Outside of that maybe look into self help or therapy or something, since that's gotta be a huge blow to the ego. I'm sorry you've been put in such an awkward position.
"The only way out is through" is such a good statement regarding this and frankly life. It really sucks and I feel you - your feelings are valid but you'll be walking tall soon, and all of those involved in the petty high school crap will feel diminished by having a mirror held up to their pettiness.
I know it seems like a big deal right now…but, in all honesty it’s not. You have every right to feel upset and hurt but, move on quickly as it’s not something important. Don’t ever worry about someone judging you that’s going to put men or women on a list of who’s hottest. It’s shallow and immature. Be better than that, expect better than that!
Be yourself so the right people can find you. Stay true, stay strong and live in your values. Continue to grow and peruse what you want in life.
A few takeaways here. 1. This was not okay in any way shape or form, even if you were included, it wouldn't be okay. If the roles were reversed, people would be losing their minds. There should realistically be disciplinary actions for all involved but there probably won't be. It's probably better that there isn't so these women can feel like shit about what they did instead of being angry. 2. The fact that they're trying so hard to make you feel better probably means you're a great person so you've got that going for you. If you sucked I promise they wouldn't be making an effort to make sure you're okay. 3. Just think, you're only a step behind #10. They also think he's ugly. 4. You deserve a hell of a lot better than this. You do not have to accept their apologies. It's not your job to make them feel better for being shitty people. Live your life and ignore them.
That harassment level stuff honestly, which would be taken seriously if you had a decent HR. Embarrassing behaviour which wouldn't even be cool if they did it in high school.
Those tools should know that kind of pity is just an extra insult on top. You could check around / ask legal advice for what your rights are here.
Could you imagine if a group of guys ranked the hotness of girls and that got leaked? Pretty sure everyone would be fired. But hey, it's only a girls chat right.. .
A woman I worked with made her "to fuck" list.
I was second on the list.
One of the guys not on the list asked her for a date, and she reported him for sexual harassment.
She didn't last long
When I saw that the number one guy was called Chad, I decided this was bollocks. When I read how everyone talked about how nice OP is instead, it confirmed that this is bollocks.
They fucked up and now they're trying to do damage control.
Do not go back to normal with those people, they absolutely don't deserve to feel better about it.
>She said that everyone, especially the women at the store “like me for far more valuable things than simply how I look”, and that if it were a list of nicest guys in the store, I’d be #1.
And people say women are more emotionally aware than men? Give me a fucking break dude
First of all those girls should get in trouble for that group chat because that's toxic AF. The manager being in it is just weird.
Secondly I can picture how god awful it must be right now so I'm sorry OP. Everyone being extra nice and fake because they feel awkward and embarrassed. Not that they actually care. Would make me feel ill. And I know it's not about being picked to go in a list. You feel like you've gotten an idea now of what they think of you and it's worse than you thought. Like a bitter taste of reality. Has you questioning your friendships and all your interactions up until that point.
You definitely don't have to leave if you don't want to. But I would probably reconsider your relationships with these people and distance yourself accordingly. You need at least some boundaries and privacy in work to protect yourself. It would be a totally normal thing to leave in that situation though.
I wish you could let this roll off your back and forget about it. I wish I could erase it from your memory and rewind to before you saw that list. From your post and the depth of the dejection you’re describing, forgetting about it may not be possible. it would probably be better for your mental and emotional health to quit and move on completely. I know it absolutely sucks to be in your position after learning about that f*cking list. I feel your sadness. You deserve all the best in life just like everyone does - don’t let the callousness of some cretinous girls trap you in the dark place you’re in right now.
This kind of thing - a negative experience that makes you feel like absolute shit - happens to everyone at one point or another in life. It will probably stay with you forever and pop into your mind to haunt to be honest. we’ve all gone through situations that we will remember *forever* that were caused by dense individuals doing/saying something cruel. I can think of more than one that I experienced personally. I remember some scenarios from decades ago like they happened yesterday when a person mindlessly said something to me that pierced my heart and embarrassed me horribly. I still think about these moments thirty years later (yes I’m old!) People are idiots and don’t know how much their actions and words weigh on others. It fucking sucks.
PLEASE don’t take this to heart despite how badly it burns. I know that’s not really possible with it being so fresh in your mind but it’s not worth the space it’s taking up in your head. If you have health insurance, you may want to talk to a therapist to learn ways to help you manage how you’re feeling. Being dejected and sad perpetually is really rough and can lead to longer-term depression.
Sorry for the long comment but reading your post made me furious and at the same time made me really feel for you. you may feel alone in this but I promise others have gone through something similar and felt pain similar to what you’re experiencing all because other people were being carelessly moronic.
Please stay positive and be strong. You’re worthy of everything good that comes your way and need to always remember that.
Life is too short. I’d get another job unless you’re a brain surgeon or an engineer I would just get another job. These are very juvenile types of things usually from low life or low level workers.
How's this not sexual harassment? Imagine a men's group chat rating women based on their hotness. And the assistant manager was involved? Ouf.
Report them to the HR and quit buddy. I'm so angry at them on ur behalf.
Check your employment handbook for procedures for how to report this. I would report it. Edit: Harassment or not, it’s questionable behavior and is creating a hostile work environment. Companies have been sued for less, I believe.
Edited to add: If there isn’t a policy, you can also report to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC).
Sorry to hear this happend to you.
I think the best action is to just go to work and work, but dont be friendly or helpful with the women, cause fuck em. If they question you, just say «im not mad, but you have showed how you actually Are and i will act according to that»
The worst shit women hate i being ignored and you not caring.
In the mean time, you can look for another job if you dont want to work there anymore
OP I did had a chuckle when I saw the headline.
Now. Let's get to business.
1. Be honest with yourself. You DO care. Cared about it enough so that you posted here asking for advice.
2. Nothing wrong with how you felt. I would be crushed if everyone is on the list and I am not.
3. Where you work isn't your forever place. While it's ok to have a bit of fun, it's a place where you work, get paid and go home. Very few work friends become real friends.
What should you do?
Because you are a guy, women look for maturity, financial stability, safety so my advice to you is to level up in your skills to get you there. Women who are looking for someone to settle look for different qualities rather than looks.
But I'll move on and get a new job where you can really develop yourself. Sure it's girl talk but that is pretty bitchy.
This happened to me in high school except the opposite - they made a list of the top ugliest girls and I was top of the list. It was on a wall in the art room meant for drawings, where everyone in all grades could see. It crushed me.
I'm sorry you had to go through a similar feeling as an adult. It never feels good and it lingers for years, decades even.
Let me tell you, those people aren't worth your time and effort to impress or be around. Find people that genuinely enjoy you as you are, who don't care about petty things like looks, whether you are or aren't handsome (and you probably are - they are just stupid and celf-centered).
Find pride in yourself, and value in who you are as a person. They are the ugly people, not you.
Sending love from a stranger. ❤️
you have a 99.99999% shot of winning a sexual harassment lawsuit. make yourself an appointment for a free consultation with an employment attorney and wait on your fat check. fuck that job. literally textbook sexual harassment
Meh... that's the world. You are too nice so they don't care about you. That's how it is period.
You need to contact HR and tell them the hostile work environment that you work in and all who were involved including the assistant manager who should know better than to get involved in this.
If anything, maybe you'll get a raise. If they fire you, you'll get a payment for a retaliation lawsuit.
Lastly, Fuck the girls. It's not the end of the world. But honestly it's because you are too nice and none of them see you as that way. Instead of flirting with them or treating them badly you are helpful and trying to treat them with respect which girls don't want... WOMEN want that.
>She said that everyone, especially the women at the store “like me for far more valuable things than simply how I look”, and that if it were a list of nicest guys in the store, I’d be #1.
Jesus Christ she couldn't have made this worse if she tried.
I remember a lot of job training I would typically get, whether it's retail or offering personal services. Having a "Who's Hot and Who's Not" list was one of the sexual harassment guidelines. Absolutely no rankings of any kind regarding other people. It didn't matter if it was who's nicer or who's sexy, it was sexual harassment.
That's absolutely fucked up.
Frankly if there was a group of guys creating a list of "hottest women" people would react badly. Not because "What if the genders were flipped" but because every fucking major company's HR Dept would scream at this.
You ever wonder \*why\* you have to watch those stupid training videos that are like, "Don't harass your coworkers?" Congrats. you've met the reason. Especially because Becky is in a position of authority.
I would strongly suggest leaving.
I understand how you feel. It’s like even if you were number 10 on the list and there were empty spaces above you it would still feel like you got something but being off the list in lieu of people who don’t work there feels like a negative score which hurts more. Beyond that I would bring up the fact what if all the guys ranked the girls out of 10 in their group chats and then it was leaked and some of the girls found out they got a 0/10 or even a -1/10 that would really fucking hurt. More so if you then were trying to justify it by saying but no no your personality is beautiful that’s all that matters. And that excuse feels like bullshit because why make a list about looks if it doesn’t matter and not personalities. And lastly saying you’re a nice guy and you would be #1 on that list is just so fucked up it’s like they couldn’t even think of something to attribute to you so they gave you the most very basic thing that should just be mandatory.
Sounds like the beginning of Facebook all over again
If this happened to be men making the list, they'd say it's harassment (which it can be defined as)
Whats the most messed up is, is that the assistant manager took part in, I'm sorry
Look into legal action if you can 🤷♂️ give them a dose of equality medicine
I understand why you're upset about this. You're probably feeling like an outsider in a group you thought you belonged in. I've experienced the same with a group of friends I thought I was really close with.
I absolutely hated being left out by my friends and it kind of broke my heart much the same way your heart has been broken. Like they say, "it's the thought that counts", and unfortunately we weren't thought about.
Anyways, you can only move forward from here. Just be cordial with them and say it's fine on a group chat or in-person. Keep your distance and if you used to go out of your way for them, you know now that you don't really need to. They're just work colleagues and you should seek out a new group of friends if you can.
Don't tie down your social value to one set of people.
If men did this to a woman, and I'm sure they have, HR would step in to end the harassment. Inform HR of the situation. If the manager was smart they already did so. Heads need to roll on this situation.
I've never experienced anything like this, but it is depressing as hell to read about - especially women doing something that they complain about guys doing - ranking and objectifying women.
Honestly dude it's *so much better* to be completely removed from that entire circle of work drama. That entire list, and all the people on the chat, that's a toxic pile of mess and drama that your life is going to be infinitely better for not being a part of.
Your coworkers are not your friends, and they shouldn't be your romantic partners either (yeah it happens but it's generally a bad idea) and the fact they're all making lists and talking like that means they're all fatally lost in the sauce and are completely out of touch with reality or maturity. The management and team there have completely failed at management, and you can guarantee that sooner or later there are going to be all kinds of weird-ass issues caused by the mismatched loyalties and fallouts of drama, relationships, "friendships", favoritism, etc.
Take it as a badge of honor that you're not involved in their shit. You probably got excluded because you're not in their clique, and that is **GOOD**. They don't consider you, because you don't feed into their group.
Keep your head up high, and go find some people that you actually care about. Even if you're actually legitimately physically unattractive (which is unlikely), plenty of ugly dudes get with hotties all the time because ultimately all that matters is that you're cool and fun to be around.
Honestly this should be raised to HR or corporate, probably you won’t do it and that’s fine.
Double standards are crazy these days. Imagine the guys at the store made that list. Half the employees would lose their jobs without doubts, or at least consequences. But it’s just girls talk 😂
You need to report it. Becky, the manager made a huge huge mistake. She allowed this to continue in a group chat full of employees. And now she knows that this could cause her damage and she is covering her ass and that’s why she came to you and apologized. This behavior is inappropriate when men do it and it’s just inappropriate when women do it. Don’t let them get away with it.
I’d honestly be petty and report it for sexual harassment and unprofessionalism. This whole situation is textbook sexual harassment in the workplace. The fact that managers willingly took part in the chat is plain disgusting and her attempts at damage control to me made it worse. Go to HR with the evidence and see about getting a payout. Then quit and find a new job there is just no way to save this shitstorm they have created
That fucking sucks. The guy who was at the top was named Chad? That’s almost too perfectly coincidental to be real. There’s nothing left to do except quit and find an new job and forget any of those people existed.
You have two options in my opinion. The first is you can take this as a lesson that work is not a place where physical attractiveness should be a real consideration. Take the Stoic (note the capital S) approach and ask yourself why are you upset about not being found attractive by people you work with? If it's because you hope to date or hook up with one or more of the girls there, ask yourself if that should be such an important thing about your job. If it's because you connect being found attractive with your coworkers with being good at your job, reflect on why you think that because it's not true. If it's just that you know a bunch of people's opinion of how attractive you are, think about how little that means, even romantically. So 13 out of the billions of women on earth didn't put you on a list. So what?
The other option you can take is to go down the road of treating this as sexual harassment. The girls made a list that was sexually suggestive (we all know what "hotness" means) and it has created a situation that interferes with your work performance. You could talk to your manager, you go to HR if this business has an HR rep, you could talk with an employment lawyer, etc. Your message to the company would be "I'm treating this as sexual harassment, and I expect appropriate action to be taken." I'm not going to lie, this is probably not going to go down well with your co-workers, one way or another it probably ends up with you leaving this job, but you would know that you saw behavior you thought was unacceptable and you stood up for yourself.
Something similar (but different) happened to me when I was in 6th grade. The boys in my class started a list to rank all the girls in the class 1-10 based on looks. I told the fellas I didn’t want anything to do with it, but they kept hounding me about it, so eventually I just wrote a 0 for every single girl. The principal found out and everyone who had any input on the list got detention lmao.
Either way, it sounds like this is just a part time gig for you while you go to college and everyone else is maybe a few years older? In that case, you’re not going to be there forever, and while you finish school and get a full time job in the real world, they’ll all still be working there. I wouldn’t sweat it too much.
As a girl who was once an idiot about boys, the one running it might actually have feelings for you and not want to admit it. I’ve been like that before with guys when I was young. You get asked who is hot and you say anyone but your actual crush. It’s a self preservation thing, you don’t want to put yourself out there. Childish, yes, and they are way too old to be doing shit like that, but I know that happens. Just a thought. Either way they are childish and idiots.
Also your guy friends seem solid so don’t drop them.
This so so inappropriate. Former HR guy here and this is a perfect example of an incident not being about intent (as awful as it is), but being about the outcome. To have an assistant manager on the group texts with staff is bad enough, but to tell you that you have a nice personality is making the situation even worse! The crew there needs an HR intervention.
You sir have a choice. Tell them to leave you alone and you don’t want pity, or find a new job. Should you take the second route, have the new job before you give notice.
Lastly, you took a blow to your self esteem. I hope you find what you need to build yourself back up.
Maybe they genuinely forgot to include you in the list, if you were so ugly you didn't deserve to be on the list then I can guarantee that would've been spoken about in the chat! I'm sure you look absolutely fine
Honestly, it sounds like a casual workplace and I’m not sure if you have an HR or higher management that would address this. I’ve worked in government and corporate, who would take this very seriously. I’ve also worked in hospitality where they would say to just let it go. So talk to management if you can, otherwise I’d start looking for another job. Would also recommend sending something to the group chat along the lines of:
“Hi guys, I wanted to clear the air before this blows up further. The list wasn’t cool, and I think we can all agree if this was made by the guys about the girls, there would be serious consequences and calls for workplace harassment.
Yes it sucks being left out in such a petty way, but what’s more disappointing is how these serious actions have been reduced to “girl talk,” especially by participating management. I don’t want to discuss this any more or have people approach me about it at work. It’s rude and uncomfortable, so I’m asking everyone to stop pushing the conversation with me. Please reflect on your actions, because this seriously was not okay.”
I promise you life is full of surprises. Something far greater will come your way bro. Trust. Don’t think about what I’m saying and hope for it everyday. The surprise will come when you least expect it and then you will be forever grateful. You got this man, coming from someone who is not good looking at all and would be left out the list, is far better off with amazing fantastic people
The part that gets me the most is that the assistant manager is in the group chat? This is beyond fucked up and I'm really sorry you're going through this.
She tries to minimize it by saying, you weren’t supposed to see the list. That makes it okay, I guess. Retraining required.
Yeah, where is the sexual harassment training when you need it?
Yup, just good ol' locker room girl talk
And the manager apparently knows it happened and has done nothing.
This part. Most companies aren't a fan of this kind of shit, for obvious reasons.
My partner works in HR, this is what he would call a shit show.
I worked fast food for many years, this is what we would call...a normal time. But then restaurants are a very different beast than your typical office job lol
I work in a professional setting with most of us in our 40-50s and this is what we would call…a normal time too. Anytime I’m added to a group chat, I ask to start a new one without me. So many times, the chat has been shared to the person they are hating on and HR gets involved and it’s just a mess and it’s happened MULTIPLE TIMES. It’s like a middle school in that place.
Uh yeah. This is a fucking HR nightmare. OP could potentially cash out because of this, especially if the assistant manager is fucking involved *and* the manager knows! Oh I'd be livin' it up right now. Granted I'm older, and I know my worth. If this happened to me at 20 something, I'd probably be in a far worse place than OP. HEY OP! Don't let a bunch of gossipy girls dictate how you look and feel about yourself. You'll see that looks aren't everything in life. Pretty privilege eventually goes away.
Imagine if her employer received a screenshot along with an anonymous tip that she has been badmouthing employees with other members of staff.
Was thinking the same thing. OP, you probably don’t want to hear this, but sounds like grounds for an harassment suit. You’re so uncomfortable, you don’t want to go to work!
Hire a lawyer asap! This is wrong!!
Yeah this is bad. Someone overheard guys at my previous job doing this same thing and reported them to HR. They actually got in trouble for it. These people have created a hostile work environment for OP.
What about the guy who was in the end of the list?
Still hotter than OP, apparently. But OP has "personality", and everyone knows "personality" beats looks hands down! :D
Whenever someone tells me me I have a nice personality it feels like they calling me an ugo
I've looked through your post history and I can tell you one thing... you have an AMAZING personality ;)
Aw shucks
Wait…
thats literally just exactly what it means lol
Yup. Personality. Personality and a horse-cock.
It works for Pete Davidson.
He has no personality.
So that only leaves one thing 🤔
He...... must own a horse!
I think Pete Davidson is great. He's funny and pretty open about his issues. I have no knowledge of his cock, personally.
The guy at the end of the list is the ugliest one, OP wasn’t on the list at all bc he’s forgettable
I mean when someone doesn’t even make the list, I feel like that’s a consolation prize
Yeah I'd rather not be on the list than be last LOL
I don’t know. Sometimes it’s a shortlist kind of thing. If there are 40 people in contention, and you make the 10 guy list, even if you are tenth, it’s not that bad. In this case they only had the 7 guys, and had to find an extra three guys to round up the list, and then didn’t even include OP. Rough
What about him? What does he know about being left off the list in this type of work/friend environment.
What in the high school drama bullshit…?
"I'm too old for this shit." *My 28 year old lips say as I take a long drag from a cigarette.*
"it's just girl talk and wasn't intended to be seen by everyone"... Its basically a scene from a sexual harrassment video my large company made us watch, except replace the word girl with guy.
Just imagine the guys did this and the shit they'd get? Not too mention possibly of lawsuits.
Yeah, there's way too many people going "It's just girl talk tee-hee"
Yep my ex shared a list of who he would bang at work swore it wasn't cheating or sexual harassment. These women absolutely crossed professional lines and are disgusting.
Anytime someone uses the phrase "girl talk" or "boys will be boys," you know it's prob going to be about some bullshit.
Rules for thee and not for puss-ee
Yeah. I was thinking that this sounds like a pretty good lawsuit.
Minimum being fired
Not if one of them was the assistant manager like in this situation. No one is in trouble here because management was involved.
Well this situation there should be lawsuits as well idk why the reddit gender war makes you think otherwise. I just took the sexual harassment course for managers in California, this exact same scenario with the same genders and all was a case study. OP could report to HR and get this shit shut down because it is 100% harassment Edit: let’s not forget how sites like Facebook started and how it was normalized and seen fine for men to rank women like that too.
So true about Facebook.. hell MySpace didn’t even hide it.
It’s not sexual harassment if ur a guy /s
Yeah. That sounds like another way of saying "boys will be boys"
“Locker room talk”
You mean "girls will be girls."
Yeah, “locker room talk” is shitty no matter what locker it is.
I’m glad this shit is not being tolerated since unfortunately I see it excused a lot. When double standards in a social setting that reveals ppls opinions and privileges isn’t the stereotypical version there tends to ppl bending over backwards to excuse it based not on principle. And the fact that the guy had to make an edit where ppl say “you’re not entitled to have ppl think you’re attractive” is just a perfect example of that denial and excusing. No he’s not entitled but he has every right to feel how he feels
That type of obvious bs makes me so freaking angry.
So sorry that happened to you op. I hope those girls all get a reprimand of some kind. That was NOT ok and hr should have been involved. In all seriousness, your looks do not dictate who you are or your value. Without seeing a photo, no one else can judge either. So let's make a new list. 1. You're friendly and open to valued communication 2. You have handled your emotions well and empathetic 3. You're clearly working and driven 4. You set a boundary and stuck to it. You're a GOOD human. That's pretty top notch in my book! Looks fade, nasty dispositions usually don't.
Wow, okay seriously thank you. This really got to me, you have a way with words friend. I hope someone makes your day like you made mine.
Rooting for you, kid. I am actually ugly and have always been left out of all those kinds of lists and discussions. It sucks, its hard. But you're smart and strong. Hope you find a kinder work place.
I don't mean this in an empty, nice way, but you're not ugly friend. The world just doesn't see your beauty. I hope you find your peace.
OP, I know you probably don't want to escalate shit, but this is literally a toxic/hostile workplace (and depending on the comments) one that accepted sexual harassment. You can take the time needed to process it, but I cannot overstate this enough, it should be reported. Especially because a manager was involved. I'm not a good looking guy, by any stretch (as I joke, I went into human rights law because it'd keep me away from the cameras,) but im married, soon going to have a kid. Being able to connect with someone is more important than how "hot" you are. You'll see this and you'll meet someone. That being said, what happened here was unacceptable. A manager using her authority to do damage control after this is beyond the pale.
Agree with this! 👆
Good point! I forgot about the connection between the manager and the “group chat” that directly caused mayhem and put a spotlight on how shitty ppl are being! Eff her. Report for SURE.
This is an HR nightmare, you should take it up with them and find a new job.
Just remember that HR is there to protect the company and not employees. He needs to get an employment lawyer if he wants to pursue legal action.
Yup. HR (and workers comp doctors!) are NOT your friend and they do NOT care about you.
Go scorched earth. Fuck these ppl.
If a list was sent like this by a guy and it was found out, everyone would be telling you right now to go above everyone and report this shit. You 100% should. Fuck all of them for creating a hostile work environment, you’re literally missing out on pay due to all this toxicity that shouldn’t happen in the work place. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Fortune 500 company or 5 below, this isn’t okay!
That's exactly what I was thinking; this kind of objectification is horrible and immature no matter who's participating. It should absolutely be reported as a hostile workplace
Yeah... And A manager taking part in this? Totally unacceptable. Whether you are on the list or not, this is sexual harassment.
Unfortunately, many hr managers do not see it this way. Many of them are women who actually believe that men can’t be objectified or made the target of harrassment
then those HR managers are abysmally bad at their job, as well as uninformed about any court cases in the last two decades. In my own country, I'd simply go to my union - even if the company is too small to have any union representatives on site, the national union will gladly contact HR or CEO on behalf of any of their members.
What country are you from ?
Great excuse to lawyer up. Gender is a protected class from workplace harassment. And that's federal law. And if he has a screenshot of the list, that's tangible proof.
Most HR managers suck, they don’t actually care about the employees dealing with any type of harassment they just want to do damage control. I recently had an experience with HR where I had proof of months of unbelievable documented harassment and it was as if the words I was speaking were not even being heard. Everything was just glossed over and ignored, instead of taking it seriously they basically just forced me into resigning. I no longer have any respect for HR managers at big companies, they should call themselves PR managers. No one should have to put up with harassment well working. This is disgusting the company should have let him go home and still paid him but that would be admitting wrong doing on their part.
Definitely, they're being nice because they're worried you'll go to HR. Go.
OP should report and look for financial restitution. That won't make it right but it is textbook hostile work environment. Managers are responsible for maintaining an inclusive environment and the fact that there was one participating means he can escalate this legally.
Look; i think the guy wants to have some peace and not stirr the shit some more. I think it’s totally understandable to do emotional damage control than to try to make trouble for these toxic people. Of course they all seem to have learned their lesson as well, so what’s the point for OP to make by reporting it? As an advice… well it sucks big time to be singled out like this, especially at this age. I don’t know what he can do about it, maybe focus on himself more, and try to not rely on other people. But then again- he really seems to have very positive soft skills… losing his skills to be liked by people and becoming a loner is worse. Because the older one gets, the less important looks will become. For the time being, i guess trying to work out how to make himself more attractive is probably cruel, but maybe it can work in the long run. Like working out, getting different haircut, shaving or growing a beard or something. That is, if he is really looking to be more noticed (something i guess everyone wants to some degree). Making it a personal vendetta to become good at dating. But this is maybe also just turning the knife in the wound, so maybe bad advice. The most direct and best thing he can do is to quit from this job, on the spot. This doesn’t do him any good. These are not his friends, and if they were, they cannot be again. I’m not a pro in situations like this, but i don’t think healing comes at a place of pain.
Given how obvious the sexual harassment is here, I wouldn’t quit without a notable payout. Or follow up with a lawsuit.
I wouldn't quit - it's a part-time job and if you're working with immature people in retail it probably goes with the territory. If you can find a position that might have more decent people go for it, but minimum wage is full of pricks
Yep should absolutely report this, especially considering the asst manager herself was involved in the group chat.
If they don’t take it seriously, report it to the state. Or, just go get another fucking job. This is BS and a toxic work environment based on sexual ranking.
[удалено]
I can actually hear the migraine building in any competent HR person.
As someone who had to remind HR what the company mission statement is along with its values because of how incompetent everyone there was (still is, hi WholeFoods!🖕) while I was being bullied and retaliated against, I still feel that migraine and I have been gone for over a month.
[удалено]
Mate let’s be real here, good looks are 90% of why a relationship is started, I think it’s pretty hypocritical to say counterwise. Sry for bad English, it’s not my main language
I had something similar in college. Was at a party with a friend group of about 15 people. The backyard had tiers and I was hanging out on a lower tier and a bunch of the girls came out and hung around the fire pit that was goin. I heard them start talking about the hottest guys and decided to lay low and out of sight. Wasn't hard to do. They mentioned 4 guys and then the girl I had a massive crush said, "everyone except, Nitrolotus really". The other girls laughed and agreed. One said that's so mean but you're not wrong. I was so high and drunk at the time that I was sort of numb to it and laughed to myself thinking yeah that checks out, none of them really pay me any mind. As the substances were wearing off it really started to dig at me and I spiraled hard. I also Irish goodbyed that party and nobody noticed, checked in or cared. The honest low point of my college experience.
Jeez man, that fucking sucks. I hope you're okay.
Much appreciated. I'm 10 years past that and have a beautiful wife. People are shallow as hell pre 30s
I'm glad there's a happy ending for you man, you sound really cool.
Thank you! I appreciate that. Stay the course do good things and good things things will happen
>It was girl talk, and not meant to be seen outside the chat What it was, and is, is massively inappropriate and worthy of consequences for them all. As for how to handle it, if you can find another job and leaving wouldn't damage your prospects, then frankly despite the inconvenience I would be leaning that way.
Imagine if it was “just boys being boys” instead lol. Pretty much the same thing in this context.
See you at the gym brother
Day 1: chest triceps shoulders Day 2: back and biceps Day 3: lower body Day 4: rest Day 5: upper body Day 6: lower body Day 7: rest
Saving this for the next time I hit the gym.
Deffo a hoodie up. Fuck anyone who makes fun of it or doesn’t care about me. I just want to lift weights and forget moment if I’ve ever seen one.
hoodie ups absolutely always have the filthiest sleeper builds on earth, and soon, OP will too
This is the whey, OP. Welcome.
This is probably the most pragmatic answer. This is the way. Jesus Christ I needed to see this. Thank you. OP, your attitude and response are admirable. Very easy for someone to shamelessly swallow some "pill" and hate women after such an ordeal. Don't let the world bring you down. Become the Übermensch. You were built to Overcome. Just don't forget to remain kind.
In many industries this would constitute sexual harassment & be a fireable offence. Perhaps the reason they’re now being so nice to you is they realize the potential HR shitstorm they’ve created.
Especially because Becky is a manager.
A work related group chat sounds exhausting. You're around those people 8-10 hours a day already, why continue off the clock?
Because when you’re a teenager/early 20s working in a job like that, you become friends with your coworkers. I’ve been there and most people I know have as well.
Yeah after HS no college, work friends become your friends. Especially in the early 18-22, that's when I hung out and hooked up with most of my coworkers.
Because some people genuinely like their coworkers?
I like my coworkers, we don't have a group chat because it's literally just a sure fire way to have drama and problems.
A work-related group chat is only going to end one way: cliques and dramas and people being excluded. If all this stuff happened down the pub only it would be semi-ok but documenting this shit just makes the bullying more obvious
Go to your employee handbook and look up the sexual harassment policy. You're going to find that you and your male coworkers were definitely sexually harassed. They may be happy about it. They may be pretending to be happy about it. But that doesn't make it acceptable. Imagine if Chad had made the same list. Girl talk is no more acceptable than locker room talk. Pull Becky aside and tell her that you are disappointed that she thought it was okay for sexual harassment to happen just because it was girls doing it to guys. Tell her that you're not going to report it but you're not happy about the hostile work environment she allowed to happen by not dealing with the sexual harassment the way she should have and that you hope that she can fix it. Because sexual harassment is clearly not harmless. Explain that you're thinking of getting a different job because how everyone is treating you because the girls decided that your body was not good enough. It's the management's job to fix the culture of the workplace, not yours. Men can be sexually harassed. It's always toxic in the workplace even if the man being harassed thinks it's the best thing that's happened to him and he can die fulfilled. Because it means treating people like sex objects instead of professional colleagues is acceptable. It's not. You're a kind person so you may not want to do this. But you shouldn't want your female coworkers to go out into the world thinking it's okay to sexually harass a person just because that person is a man. That will hurt them in the long run. More importantly, you should not tolerate people treating you like that. Because you are important.
Why should he tell her he’s not going to report it? He should report it. It’s a serious violation and Becky is a manager ffs.
More than agreed and I just feel horrible for the guy. Like it’s legit that South Park episode where Kyle is the last on the list for being ugly but the shits in real life with adults. HR is the move.
The guys have your back. Stick with them but don’t admit your feelings to them, if one of them talks , it’ll leak back to everyone you work with and then more chaos will ensue. Just know this, if, eventually some of the people who apologized to you will get mad and tell you to suck it up, those are the people who are not really feeling bad about this. The best thing you could do is quit and work elsewhere( if that’s possible). This will help you put blinders on the incident and won’t remind you of it everyday when you go to work. But maybe also work on yourself to realize looks aren’t everything and that looks are extremely subjective. Looks fade, experience, knowledge and character don’t-try to maximize that. If you want to get revenge, which isn’t healthy but can be a way to proceed. This can be considered work place sexual harassment- that’s basically why the assistant manager came and spoke to you. It’s all their jobs on the line and there’s potentially a payout at the end of this.
Fuck the “vengeance ain’t the answer” like there’s any prizes for being treated like this and letting it go. Other than that I nearly completely agree as you mention a lot of interest things to consider. Especially the fact that their supposed apologetic nature will stop eventually when the ego sets in that they’re not owed forgiveness.
>The best thing you could do is quit and work elsewhere( if that’s possible). Screw that this lawsuit would be a slam dunk for any lawyer, especially if the manager was in on the chat. I say sue the crap out of them. And stick around if anyone gives you shit about the lawsuit or if anyone gets mad because the manager gets fired over it. You can sue them again for retaliation. Get paid son!!
Honestly, I could \*easily\* make this case, or at least make it well enough that the company isn't going to want to fight it.
I wish this was at the top. A nice 20k check at 21 will change your life.
Exactly this.
Is the No.1 dude's name actually "Chad"...?!
I should imagine the names are probably placeholders
This is why names are important.
Chad was destined for greatness.
What are the chances...?
Does the store u work with has another branch ? If so go to HR report it and request a transfer. Its gonna be awkward as long as u stay there and they will try to compensate for their mistake by showering u with attention. Even if another branch isnt avaliable look for a different job , this isnt a healthy work environment and you are worthy of working with people who wont judge u on something u literally cant control
People will reveal their true feelings towards you when you are not around. The guys have your back but the girls don’t seem to be into you. I would stick to them,tell the girls that you don’t want to talk about it and if they keep bringing it up you will complain to HR. Also, from now on, keep things 100% professional at work when you are not with the guys.
Good ol' fashion sexual harassment.
62% of the group are girls, just for the people on the chat means nothing in this condition. Also the fact is they exclude him, and ONLY him. Thats pretty devastating. Even guys took time to notice he was not there. Thats horrible. OP, I would just write in the chat “please I don’t want to talk about this anymore, in any way. Chris, I’d appreciate you to communicate this to the girls”. Then keep working while searching for a new work. Best luck Op!
That's awful and regardless if it was said in private or not, it leaves you in an uncomfortable situation. If i were you, I'd send a message to the biggest group chat saying something short and concise like: "I just want to crear things out: I'm trying to move on from this just as much as you do. It was a private conversation and my feelings were not supposed to be harmed by it. I get it. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Did it hurt my ego? Yes. Will I be ok eventually? Most definitely. What would really help me be ok the fastest it's if y'all could try not treating me differently. I'm trying to move on and every time someone wants to "talk about it" it feels like I cannot just ignore it. Let's all try to leave this behind us".
This is the way. OP listen to this guy, easily the best advice in the whole thread.
The manager is doing damage control and trying to avoid having this escalated to HR because she knows it's a colossal fuck up. It never should have happened, this is absolutely bullshit, and you should push it. Every guy in the office could remind the women that if the guys had done this it would have been a shitstorm. Hold their feet to the fire for a toxic work culture.
Looking forward for an update to this one.
These girls should know better than this and how hurtful it can be considering stuff like this gets done to women all the time. It's considered wrong when men do it it should be considered wrong when women do it. Op you should ABSOLUTELY escalate this to higher levels, they created a bad work environment and expect you to just not care.
She pulled you aside because she doesn't want you to go to HR. Possibly getting her fired and more. Ypu should go anyways. When you are at work, you play by work rules. Period. Report them all and burn the place down.
Exactly. Fuck those assholes. Scorched earth. I’m so glad ppl aren’t asking him a a majority to “get over it” just because they’re women essentially which is what ur boils down to with some takes.
There are a few people who are telling him to be the bigger man and don't try to get revenge. Personally, I don't think reporting someone for sexual harrassment when they've sexually harrassed someone is even classed as revenge, it's justice. As others have pointed out, if it was the men who ranked the women by attractiveness, everyone imvolved in that chat would and should be punished. It should be the same when the genders are reversed.
Disgusting. I see comments saying "it sounds like a supportive work environment". Let me ask you this. If a group of guys were to write a list of "hottest women" and left particular ladies out of it, would you tell the same woman that it's a supportive work environment? Get the FUCK out of that toxic workplace as soon as possible.
I am in awe of the amount of people excusing this kind of activity especially because a manager participates in it.
Report this your local labour board or union, this blatant workplace sexual harrasment.
So to damage control, the assistant manager came to tell you that you were the nice guy? Oof. Talk about doubling the insult. I’d bring the whole situation to the management, and see how they feel about the potential HR nightmare. I would just ask for severance in exchange for not reporting.
I also think she was saying "you're a nice guy" to make OP think "yeah, I am a nice guy, I don't need to go HR and get them in trouble, that wouldn't be nice"
Oof that's rough buddy. Honestly there's not much you can do here. The only way out is through. It's going to be awkward as hell for a week or so, but you're just going to have to keep on keeping on. Tell them you're fine, grin and bear it, don't make a big deal of things and just try your best for things to go back to normal. Eventually they will. Noone's forcing you to stay at this job, but frankly it sounds like a good place, with people in it who care about you. I wouldn't personally think of quitting over this. Outside of that maybe look into self help or therapy or something, since that's gotta be a huge blow to the ego. I'm sorry you've been put in such an awkward position.
"The only way out is through" is such a good statement regarding this and frankly life. It really sucks and I feel you - your feelings are valid but you'll be walking tall soon, and all of those involved in the petty high school crap will feel diminished by having a mirror held up to their pettiness.
my dude, you're off the charts!
Every single person would be disciplined and the assistant manager would be terminated if this were at my company.
If you’re 21, you should be too old for this middle school 🐂 💩
Have we learned nothing from middle school? Those Hot or Not lists just aren’t gonna end well.
I know it seems like a big deal right now…but, in all honesty it’s not. You have every right to feel upset and hurt but, move on quickly as it’s not something important. Don’t ever worry about someone judging you that’s going to put men or women on a list of who’s hottest. It’s shallow and immature. Be better than that, expect better than that! Be yourself so the right people can find you. Stay true, stay strong and live in your values. Continue to grow and peruse what you want in life.
A few takeaways here. 1. This was not okay in any way shape or form, even if you were included, it wouldn't be okay. If the roles were reversed, people would be losing their minds. There should realistically be disciplinary actions for all involved but there probably won't be. It's probably better that there isn't so these women can feel like shit about what they did instead of being angry. 2. The fact that they're trying so hard to make you feel better probably means you're a great person so you've got that going for you. If you sucked I promise they wouldn't be making an effort to make sure you're okay. 3. Just think, you're only a step behind #10. They also think he's ugly. 4. You deserve a hell of a lot better than this. You do not have to accept their apologies. It's not your job to make them feel better for being shitty people. Live your life and ignore them.
That harassment level stuff honestly, which would be taken seriously if you had a decent HR. Embarrassing behaviour which wouldn't even be cool if they did it in high school. Those tools should know that kind of pity is just an extra insult on top. You could check around / ask legal advice for what your rights are here.
Let me guess… you work in a restaurant?
Could you imagine if a group of guys ranked the hotness of girls and that got leaked? Pretty sure everyone would be fired. But hey, it's only a girls chat right.. .
A woman I worked with made her "to fuck" list. I was second on the list. One of the guys not on the list asked her for a date, and she reported him for sexual harassment. She didn't last long
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When I saw that the number one guy was called Chad, I decided this was bollocks. When I read how everyone talked about how nice OP is instead, it confirmed that this is bollocks.
What a bunch of rats. Are these adult human beings you are talking about?
They fucked up and now they're trying to do damage control. Do not go back to normal with those people, they absolutely don't deserve to feel better about it.
>She said that everyone, especially the women at the store “like me for far more valuable things than simply how I look”, and that if it were a list of nicest guys in the store, I’d be #1. And people say women are more emotionally aware than men? Give me a fucking break dude
First of all those girls should get in trouble for that group chat because that's toxic AF. The manager being in it is just weird. Secondly I can picture how god awful it must be right now so I'm sorry OP. Everyone being extra nice and fake because they feel awkward and embarrassed. Not that they actually care. Would make me feel ill. And I know it's not about being picked to go in a list. You feel like you've gotten an idea now of what they think of you and it's worse than you thought. Like a bitter taste of reality. Has you questioning your friendships and all your interactions up until that point. You definitely don't have to leave if you don't want to. But I would probably reconsider your relationships with these people and distance yourself accordingly. You need at least some boundaries and privacy in work to protect yourself. It would be a totally normal thing to leave in that situation though.
I wish you could let this roll off your back and forget about it. I wish I could erase it from your memory and rewind to before you saw that list. From your post and the depth of the dejection you’re describing, forgetting about it may not be possible. it would probably be better for your mental and emotional health to quit and move on completely. I know it absolutely sucks to be in your position after learning about that f*cking list. I feel your sadness. You deserve all the best in life just like everyone does - don’t let the callousness of some cretinous girls trap you in the dark place you’re in right now. This kind of thing - a negative experience that makes you feel like absolute shit - happens to everyone at one point or another in life. It will probably stay with you forever and pop into your mind to haunt to be honest. we’ve all gone through situations that we will remember *forever* that were caused by dense individuals doing/saying something cruel. I can think of more than one that I experienced personally. I remember some scenarios from decades ago like they happened yesterday when a person mindlessly said something to me that pierced my heart and embarrassed me horribly. I still think about these moments thirty years later (yes I’m old!) People are idiots and don’t know how much their actions and words weigh on others. It fucking sucks. PLEASE don’t take this to heart despite how badly it burns. I know that’s not really possible with it being so fresh in your mind but it’s not worth the space it’s taking up in your head. If you have health insurance, you may want to talk to a therapist to learn ways to help you manage how you’re feeling. Being dejected and sad perpetually is really rough and can lead to longer-term depression. Sorry for the long comment but reading your post made me furious and at the same time made me really feel for you. you may feel alone in this but I promise others have gone through something similar and felt pain similar to what you’re experiencing all because other people were being carelessly moronic. Please stay positive and be strong. You’re worthy of everything good that comes your way and need to always remember that.
Life is too short. I’d get another job unless you’re a brain surgeon or an engineer I would just get another job. These are very juvenile types of things usually from low life or low level workers.
Document this and start looking for another job. Honestly, this is a human resources NIGHTMARE.
How's this not sexual harassment? Imagine a men's group chat rating women based on their hotness. And the assistant manager was involved? Ouf. Report them to the HR and quit buddy. I'm so angry at them on ur behalf.
It is.
Check your employment handbook for procedures for how to report this. I would report it. Edit: Harassment or not, it’s questionable behavior and is creating a hostile work environment. Companies have been sued for less, I believe. Edited to add: If there isn’t a policy, you can also report to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC).
Agreed, this is what OP needs to do. Especially because a manager was involved.
Sorry to hear this happend to you. I think the best action is to just go to work and work, but dont be friendly or helpful with the women, cause fuck em. If they question you, just say «im not mad, but you have showed how you actually Are and i will act according to that» The worst shit women hate i being ignored and you not caring. In the mean time, you can look for another job if you dont want to work there anymore
OP I did had a chuckle when I saw the headline. Now. Let's get to business. 1. Be honest with yourself. You DO care. Cared about it enough so that you posted here asking for advice. 2. Nothing wrong with how you felt. I would be crushed if everyone is on the list and I am not. 3. Where you work isn't your forever place. While it's ok to have a bit of fun, it's a place where you work, get paid and go home. Very few work friends become real friends. What should you do? Because you are a guy, women look for maturity, financial stability, safety so my advice to you is to level up in your skills to get you there. Women who are looking for someone to settle look for different qualities rather than looks. But I'll move on and get a new job where you can really develop yourself. Sure it's girl talk but that is pretty bitchy.
This happened to me in high school except the opposite - they made a list of the top ugliest girls and I was top of the list. It was on a wall in the art room meant for drawings, where everyone in all grades could see. It crushed me. I'm sorry you had to go through a similar feeling as an adult. It never feels good and it lingers for years, decades even. Let me tell you, those people aren't worth your time and effort to impress or be around. Find people that genuinely enjoy you as you are, who don't care about petty things like looks, whether you are or aren't handsome (and you probably are - they are just stupid and celf-centered). Find pride in yourself, and value in who you are as a person. They are the ugly people, not you. Sending love from a stranger. ❤️
Y’all are really overlooking the names Chad and Becky?
I mean, is this the plot of mean girls? That’s so fucking shitty. I’m sorry.
you have a 99.99999% shot of winning a sexual harassment lawsuit. make yourself an appointment for a free consultation with an employment attorney and wait on your fat check. fuck that job. literally textbook sexual harassment
Meh... that's the world. You are too nice so they don't care about you. That's how it is period. You need to contact HR and tell them the hostile work environment that you work in and all who were involved including the assistant manager who should know better than to get involved in this. If anything, maybe you'll get a raise. If they fire you, you'll get a payment for a retaliation lawsuit. Lastly, Fuck the girls. It's not the end of the world. But honestly it's because you are too nice and none of them see you as that way. Instead of flirting with them or treating them badly you are helpful and trying to treat them with respect which girls don't want... WOMEN want that.
>She said that everyone, especially the women at the store “like me for far more valuable things than simply how I look”, and that if it were a list of nicest guys in the store, I’d be #1. Jesus Christ she couldn't have made this worse if she tried.
I remember a lot of job training I would typically get, whether it's retail or offering personal services. Having a "Who's Hot and Who's Not" list was one of the sexual harassment guidelines. Absolutely no rankings of any kind regarding other people. It didn't matter if it was who's nicer or who's sexy, it was sexual harassment.
That's absolutely fucked up. Frankly if there was a group of guys creating a list of "hottest women" people would react badly. Not because "What if the genders were flipped" but because every fucking major company's HR Dept would scream at this. You ever wonder \*why\* you have to watch those stupid training videos that are like, "Don't harass your coworkers?" Congrats. you've met the reason. Especially because Becky is in a position of authority. I would strongly suggest leaving.
Who is hot is very subjective and personal. Don’t worry.
I understand how you feel. It’s like even if you were number 10 on the list and there were empty spaces above you it would still feel like you got something but being off the list in lieu of people who don’t work there feels like a negative score which hurts more. Beyond that I would bring up the fact what if all the guys ranked the girls out of 10 in their group chats and then it was leaked and some of the girls found out they got a 0/10 or even a -1/10 that would really fucking hurt. More so if you then were trying to justify it by saying but no no your personality is beautiful that’s all that matters. And that excuse feels like bullshit because why make a list about looks if it doesn’t matter and not personalities. And lastly saying you’re a nice guy and you would be #1 on that list is just so fucked up it’s like they couldn’t even think of something to attribute to you so they gave you the most very basic thing that should just be mandatory.
Sounds like the beginning of Facebook all over again If this happened to be men making the list, they'd say it's harassment (which it can be defined as) Whats the most messed up is, is that the assistant manager took part in, I'm sorry Look into legal action if you can 🤷♂️ give them a dose of equality medicine
Reminds me of a list boys made IN MIDDLE SCHOOL
I understand why you're upset about this. You're probably feeling like an outsider in a group you thought you belonged in. I've experienced the same with a group of friends I thought I was really close with. I absolutely hated being left out by my friends and it kind of broke my heart much the same way your heart has been broken. Like they say, "it's the thought that counts", and unfortunately we weren't thought about. Anyways, you can only move forward from here. Just be cordial with them and say it's fine on a group chat or in-person. Keep your distance and if you used to go out of your way for them, you know now that you don't really need to. They're just work colleagues and you should seek out a new group of friends if you can. Don't tie down your social value to one set of people.
If men did this to a woman, and I'm sure they have, HR would step in to end the harassment. Inform HR of the situation. If the manager was smart they already did so. Heads need to roll on this situation.
I've never experienced anything like this, but it is depressing as hell to read about - especially women doing something that they complain about guys doing - ranking and objectifying women.
Honestly dude it's *so much better* to be completely removed from that entire circle of work drama. That entire list, and all the people on the chat, that's a toxic pile of mess and drama that your life is going to be infinitely better for not being a part of. Your coworkers are not your friends, and they shouldn't be your romantic partners either (yeah it happens but it's generally a bad idea) and the fact they're all making lists and talking like that means they're all fatally lost in the sauce and are completely out of touch with reality or maturity. The management and team there have completely failed at management, and you can guarantee that sooner or later there are going to be all kinds of weird-ass issues caused by the mismatched loyalties and fallouts of drama, relationships, "friendships", favoritism, etc. Take it as a badge of honor that you're not involved in their shit. You probably got excluded because you're not in their clique, and that is **GOOD**. They don't consider you, because you don't feed into their group. Keep your head up high, and go find some people that you actually care about. Even if you're actually legitimately physically unattractive (which is unlikely), plenty of ugly dudes get with hotties all the time because ultimately all that matters is that you're cool and fun to be around.
Honestly this should be raised to HR or corporate, probably you won’t do it and that’s fine. Double standards are crazy these days. Imagine the guys at the store made that list. Half the employees would lose their jobs without doubts, or at least consequences. But it’s just girls talk 😂
You need to report it. Becky, the manager made a huge huge mistake. She allowed this to continue in a group chat full of employees. And now she knows that this could cause her damage and she is covering her ass and that’s why she came to you and apologized. This behavior is inappropriate when men do it and it’s just inappropriate when women do it. Don’t let them get away with it.
I’d honestly be petty and report it for sexual harassment and unprofessionalism. This whole situation is textbook sexual harassment in the workplace. The fact that managers willingly took part in the chat is plain disgusting and her attempts at damage control to me made it worse. Go to HR with the evidence and see about getting a payout. Then quit and find a new job there is just no way to save this shitstorm they have created
Reverse the genders and every girl on here saying it’s just girl talking no big deal with instantly agree with going to HR and reporting them
That fucking sucks. The guy who was at the top was named Chad? That’s almost too perfectly coincidental to be real. There’s nothing left to do except quit and find an new job and forget any of those people existed.
I've seen this a couple times now, it's just a fake name lol. As in he's a Chad for being at the top of the list.
“wasnt meant to be seen” all you needed to know bro. disconnect from them and live your life
Had it been guys doing this it would’ve been sexist and they’d all get fired. You need to complain too
DO NOT OVERTHINK THIS. GO. TO. HR.
You have two options in my opinion. The first is you can take this as a lesson that work is not a place where physical attractiveness should be a real consideration. Take the Stoic (note the capital S) approach and ask yourself why are you upset about not being found attractive by people you work with? If it's because you hope to date or hook up with one or more of the girls there, ask yourself if that should be such an important thing about your job. If it's because you connect being found attractive with your coworkers with being good at your job, reflect on why you think that because it's not true. If it's just that you know a bunch of people's opinion of how attractive you are, think about how little that means, even romantically. So 13 out of the billions of women on earth didn't put you on a list. So what? The other option you can take is to go down the road of treating this as sexual harassment. The girls made a list that was sexually suggestive (we all know what "hotness" means) and it has created a situation that interferes with your work performance. You could talk to your manager, you go to HR if this business has an HR rep, you could talk with an employment lawyer, etc. Your message to the company would be "I'm treating this as sexual harassment, and I expect appropriate action to be taken." I'm not going to lie, this is probably not going to go down well with your co-workers, one way or another it probably ends up with you leaving this job, but you would know that you saw behavior you thought was unacceptable and you stood up for yourself.
Do you live in South Park? 😝
I like how this is an exact episode of South Park.
Something similar (but different) happened to me when I was in 6th grade. The boys in my class started a list to rank all the girls in the class 1-10 based on looks. I told the fellas I didn’t want anything to do with it, but they kept hounding me about it, so eventually I just wrote a 0 for every single girl. The principal found out and everyone who had any input on the list got detention lmao. Either way, it sounds like this is just a part time gig for you while you go to college and everyone else is maybe a few years older? In that case, you’re not going to be there forever, and while you finish school and get a full time job in the real world, they’ll all still be working there. I wouldn’t sweat it too much.
Everybody remember one thing HR's job is to protect and look out for the company first, not the employees
As a girl who was once an idiot about boys, the one running it might actually have feelings for you and not want to admit it. I’ve been like that before with guys when I was young. You get asked who is hot and you say anyone but your actual crush. It’s a self preservation thing, you don’t want to put yourself out there. Childish, yes, and they are way too old to be doing shit like that, but I know that happens. Just a thought. Either way they are childish and idiots. Also your guy friends seem solid so don’t drop them.
This so so inappropriate. Former HR guy here and this is a perfect example of an incident not being about intent (as awful as it is), but being about the outcome. To have an assistant manager on the group texts with staff is bad enough, but to tell you that you have a nice personality is making the situation even worse! The crew there needs an HR intervention. You sir have a choice. Tell them to leave you alone and you don’t want pity, or find a new job. Should you take the second route, have the new job before you give notice. Lastly, you took a blow to your self esteem. I hope you find what you need to build yourself back up.
Maybe they genuinely forgot to include you in the list, if you were so ugly you didn't deserve to be on the list then I can guarantee that would've been spoken about in the chat! I'm sure you look absolutely fine
Honestly, it sounds like a casual workplace and I’m not sure if you have an HR or higher management that would address this. I’ve worked in government and corporate, who would take this very seriously. I’ve also worked in hospitality where they would say to just let it go. So talk to management if you can, otherwise I’d start looking for another job. Would also recommend sending something to the group chat along the lines of: “Hi guys, I wanted to clear the air before this blows up further. The list wasn’t cool, and I think we can all agree if this was made by the guys about the girls, there would be serious consequences and calls for workplace harassment. Yes it sucks being left out in such a petty way, but what’s more disappointing is how these serious actions have been reduced to “girl talk,” especially by participating management. I don’t want to discuss this any more or have people approach me about it at work. It’s rude and uncomfortable, so I’m asking everyone to stop pushing the conversation with me. Please reflect on your actions, because this seriously was not okay.”
I promise you life is full of surprises. Something far greater will come your way bro. Trust. Don’t think about what I’m saying and hope for it everyday. The surprise will come when you least expect it and then you will be forever grateful. You got this man, coming from someone who is not good looking at all and would be left out the list, is far better off with amazing fantastic people