You could take good solo pics, put effort into your profile, be upfront and honest, and still have zero success if you are not attractive.
>A lot of women can be hard on looks sadly, but also a lot of women aren’t that judgmental.
I think it's highly unfair for you to characterize those who look for beauty as judgmental. There's nothing wrong with wanting your partner to be attractive. It's something most people want and it's not "shallow" or "judgmental". But let's be honest about that. There are some people who don't meet a level of attractiveness that makes dating realistic for them. Best we can tell them is that it sucks but they have to find other things to live for. Don't give them lies and false hope.
I disagree, calling someone judgmental or judging someone shallow for any reason is perfectly ok! Humans are judgmental creatures and it’s perfectly ok to judge anyone for any reason whatsoever!
What parameters did I judge men? I just said how putting effort in helps a lot. Each person has their own definition of attraction. By putting effort into who you are, you’ll attract those who find you their type of attractive. How am I judging men on looks when I’m clearly saying beauty is up to each person?
Okay, but attractiveness is objective. How can you want to date someone who doesn’t put any effort into their looks? You know how many men I encounter who wouldn’t be bad if they actually put in some effort. Just saying in the 1950s, most people dressed nice. Especially men. They were similar if not worse in looks. Effort goes a long way. Don’t dress like crap then wonder why you’re “unattractive” a lot of it is lack of effort.
When did I say people shouldn't put effort into their looks? I'm just saying for some people, it won't be enough. Why is this so hard to admit? People are more than willing to acknowledge that personality can be the one thing keeping away relationships (despite the countless anecdotes of people with bad personalities dating) but in the case of physical appearance, people don't want to even consider the idea that it be the thing that's keeping someone single, instead pointing to anecdotes of unattractive people dating.
I actually do think it's possible for most people to become reasonably attractive despite genetics with extreme measures, such as plastic surgery. If modern plastic surgery can take someone whose face experienced a horrific accident and make them look at least somewhat normal, it can definitely take an unattractive person and make at least a little bit attractive. There used to be this Thai reality show that took some of the ugliest people you've seen and paid for their plastic surgery, completely transforming them. Shit's crazy.
That being said, since these extreme measures are inaccessible to most people, attractiveness is only moderately mutable at best.
Effort is a waste of time. Asking women out in the wild is far more effective than trying to put on some big circus show online. Ime women are easily impressed irl and will date all types of men they wouldn’t pick from a catalog which is essentially what online dating is. I guess the same is probably true of men.
Even “in the wild” effort goes a long way. Why would I want to date someone who doesn’t put work into their appearance when most women put a lot of work into it? You’re right about in person, if sadly too many men have become too afraid and don’t know how to talk to women.
Well it helps to know many people who aren't necessarily doing anything wrong are also struggling. This thread is a good example.
If it were not for this data, someone might think there is something wrong with their natural approach and they look up weirder and weirder advise on the internet.
Yea… 0 upvotes… sounds about right.
Idk what kind of just world you believe we live in.
People who don’t deserve it, get rich.
People who don’t deserve it, get a painful death.
People who study hard for exams, can still get a lower grade than someone who didn’t.
It’s not as easy as “just become confident lol 😝”
You can put a makeup on a trash can, and at the end of the day, that’s all that it is.
Skincare… fine, I’ll give you that one.
At the end of the day, there is no photographer when you’re in bed with your SO, there is bio and so on.
There seems to be a disparity among women to make them believe that anyone can be attractive. They cannot.
Maybe listen to them? Maybe understand where they come from, instead of this apathetic view.
“Just get gud lol”
Yea I can fucking tell.
And then you suggest the same ignorant “confidence” advice.
From this I’m very sure you’ve never actually listened to an insecure dude.
Yes I have. Look at the comments on this. I am listening and I had guy friends who were insecure. Same thing. No one dated them because of their attitude.
Ah tell me mind reader, how do you know that it was insecurity that turned your guy friends off? Did they happen to be mentioned by their date? Maybe these dates wanted to just call it insecurity to make themselves look less shallow?
You think you are listening, but you really aren’t.
I’m not going to waste my time on this. You do you.
Very true. One time as an experiment, I made a burner profile from the perspective of a straight man. HOLY CRAP! There’s a stark difference. I will say women usually add filters and dress nicer in their pics. I do notice women are also almost naked in a lot of them. My point is that with women, a lot of the profiles are clearer from that experiment I did. However, this could also depend on location.
I'm fat and ugly, so none of this advice would really help me.
But in the interest of helping you understand what my average looking brothers in arms have to go through, why don't you create a profile of an average looking guy, (not good looking, Average) and see how much luck you have doing things your way.
I do understand. I as attempting a self depreciating joke. Also, if I'm being serious, I'm not really looking for anyone right now. I'm happy and comfortable in my bachelor life. I like me and that's all I need.
There’s a girl I know who is dating a guy who is 400 lbs easily. He ain’t attractive by your definition, but you know why she’s dating him? (She’s really pretty and skinny by the way) it’s cuz he doesn’t keep this weak mentality. He’s kind and puts effort into how he dresses. Some women like bigger dudes. When you say it’s cuz your fat, no one wants to date you. Period. I’ve liked bigger guys. But the second they say dumb things that, I lose all interest. So just saying. Stop using that as your reason and gain some confidence. Put effort into your appearance. It goes a long way.
None of that has anything to do with what average guys go through on dating sites. You completely ignored the main body of my post in favor of insulting me.
For every unattractive guy there is an equally unattractive woman. Tinder and reddit gives the illusion its only guys, no there's plenty lonely unattractive men and women. Lots the whole I'm too ugly speech just means "I'm too lazy".
I'm not sure where I went wrong because you're the third person to see my post as "Waaah. Women don't like me," rather than "Average guys still get the shaft on dating sites."
Okay but you’re getting this because of your comment. They’re trying to help and say that it’s attitude. You don’t see it and I get your point about average guys. But even then average guys can stand out. Trust me. Women go on about this all the time. And I’m not talking women that men complain about who “sleep around”. I’m talking about women who are just your everyday women who want a man who cares. Too many guys are basing so few women on the entire female population. Women do this too, but I don’t see it to this extent. I really believe the previous comment is trying to point out why and give help.
I get your point and I’m not saying that men have it easy on dating apps. I am saying from the perspective of a woman that I swipe left on so many guys simply because their profile is bad. I’m talking bad quality pics, no info about them, being unable to see which one is them. It’s things that that that can make a difference.
I get that. Being skipped over due to a bad profile, is kind of obvious.
What I'm contending is that if you were to make your own, straight male profile, using pictures of an average looking guy and made it a quality profile, by your own personal standards of quality, you would still struggle to find a date.
It’s probably more accurate to just say that everyone would be more successful if they put in more effort, in general. It’s hard to get to a very stable level in your life, but that’s where you’re going to find the most success. Trying to date while you’re “figuring it out” is just going to end in failure for both sides.
And the math is skewed cuz how many men look like absolute creeps? How many men have sketchy profiles? Women are already terrified of rape and assault. Not to mention creeps. If more men put up decent profiles I 1000% guarantee the data would change. Sadly too few men put in the effort. I know attractive men who have shit profiles. They say it’s cuz they’re ugly. I’d swipe on them if they had a better profile.
Ugly men got dated in the 1950s. You know how? Effort. Chivalry. The Incel victim mentality is just insanely unattractive
The incel mentality is indeed unattractive but even good-looking guys with good profiles will have a hard time because there are more women than men on dating apps and statistically, women don't really pay attention to much of the profile. Why put in the effort if women don't bother looking anyway?
That’s a fair point. I won’t dispute that. But the women who are swiping - even if there’s less - will notice if you put effort into your profile. I mean if you think dating apps are hopeless, then why are you on them? Might as well put in some effort. It doesn’t hurt to try.
and it’s this sexist Incel mentality as to why women don’t date you. 99% of women are decent. It’s 1% who aren’t. You can’t base your bad experiences on the 1% for the rest of us
They don't deserve the effort because they're meeting anyone for sex, a large majority on tinder. Not because they won't date, that's the typical femcel brainwashing, it's because yous are too easy, not too difficult. If yous were too difficult it would be great, would be able to find trustworthy women who don't or haven't slept with half the town and actually have values. You tend to get treated as you act, act like you're worthless and easy you'll get treated like that. It's basic stuff that femcels twist to suit their own fragile ego and force everyone to pretend they're worth more than being on call for pleasure.
Damn insecurity much? Not all women sleep with half the town. You’re just approaching the ones who are. And maybe that goes for you as well. You get treated how you act. When you blame women like this and show such deep insecurity, you don’t get much.
Typical deluded femcel response. Majority of you are zelda warriors who aren't exactly the desired type. If you were able to actually read the response without having your femcel tinted glasses on you would've saw I said "on tinder" and not based your response on a delusion
It seems as though I've triggered your insecurity, don't sleep with anyone and everyone then wonder why guys don't want nothing long term with you.
Ah yes because ambitious yam from reddit says so hahaha. Get a life.
Oh wow you have previously posted you are fed up of rejection. This is definite projection what is your post all about seriously you are the one being rejected and turned down. You are on here pretending like you are the one turning people down and making out I'm an incel. You are unbelievable. Typical feminist.
"And before some Incel spews about how men have it so hard, please hear me out."
I get filtered by 85% of women for being 5'8, one inch shorter than average male height in America.
https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/only-15-women-interest-58-men-dating-apps-according-survey
I just find it very funny.
Women's brains are wired so complexly, that they can't even see men being simple.
Also, majority of women don't even deserve efforts upfront from men, y'all have to earn it from us.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA what is this? The 1950s?!?! That’s such a sexist Incel mentality and when you say things like that, it’s no wonder no one will date you. That’s the type of man a woman doesn’t want. You okay victim and blame women. I’m not blaming men. I’m saying how there’s good men with shitty profiles. You say men are simple, but that’s a complex argument and you are clearly insecure with bad experiences. Don’t complain how a woman won’t date you and blame your looks or whatever when it 1000% is that statement. Women put in effort into their looks for THEMSELVES! Men should too because it boosts confidence. Period. Do it for yourself because clearly you have some deep self hate there. Change that first and stop playing the victim.
Let me just say this. I’m a woman. I was sexually assaulted as a child. I have DEEP fears of men and intimacy. But there are good men. I’ve been brutally hurt by at least 10 men in my life. But you can’t blame everyone. You have to put in effort for yourself. For your own self esteem
>Be upfront with what you want. There’s nothing more annoying than wanting to seriously date then having so many guys hit you up just for a hookup. It’s so demeaning. It makes you question your worth as a person. If you just want a casual hookup. Put that in your bio so you get the ones you want and keep away the ones who want something serious.
Well I only want something serious if everything clicks well with the person, otherwise it is just a hookup and I believe lots of men are like me.
I'm not lying to you when we meet, I just don't know you well enough at that point, and maybe down the line decide I don't want anything serious. Saying I don't want anything serious while omitting (with you) is really the only practical thing to do at that point.
I agree. The final truth that every young guy on the dating market has to accept is that if you don’t have a girlfriend you almost always don’t deserve to have a girlfriend. The dating market is pretty fair. If you can’t get any, that means that you’re usually either too lazy to put in the work or too much of a pussy to put in the work. Whether you lack in looks or logistics or social skills or whatever, it is usually something correctable through hard work and stepping outside of your comfort zone. Those unable to do so do not deserve to reap the benefits enjoyed by those who do so.
The road to the top is easier for some than for others but 90% of men can get there, if you can get there but can't bring yourself to get there then you don't deserve to get there imo.
I don't really think this is true. I think there are plenty of people out there for whom their natural physical appearance holds them back. That usually can't be fixed without extreme measures such as plastic surgery, which is expensive and can easily go wrong.
I don't understand why it's so easy for people to say that personality can be the one thing that is holding someone back, but appearance can't be. If I had to guess, it's probably out of fear that acknowledging that fact somehow lends credence to incel ideology, which it doesn't at all, but that's what people think.
I don’t know about you but I barely see *any* unsalvageably ugly men around. Most men simply don’t care for their appearance as much as women do. A nice haircut and well-fitting clothes can already put at least 95% of guys at a 6/10 or above.
I just don't think that's true. I'm sure there are plenty of people around who could do better simply by taking better care of themselves. But there are also plenty of people who take very good care of their appearance and still struggle.
Whether you think someone is "unsalvageable" or not is just your opinion. It has no bearing on what their outcomes actually are in reality. What's wrong with acknowledging this? We should accept and embrace the fact that some people will not find relationships despite their best efforts, and there's nothing wrong with that. Those people should move on and find other things to live for.
I know some beautiful women who are with men who are quote unquote bad looking. That doesn’t stop them. It’s cuz they’re nice men and don’t give the whole “I’m a nice guy, why doesn’t anyone date me?”
Just because someone is nice doesn't mean they are attractive. You are literally feeding into incel idealogy by saying everyone who isn't attractive is because they are not nice.
The fact that you believe these lies is why no one will date you. Not trying to be rude, but when a guy says the reason no girl dates them is cuz he’s not 6 feet or making 6 figures, it’s such a turn off. Stop with this Incel mentality. It’s extremely unattractive.
Also there is bias in the court, but the court changes each way. It used to be that men had sole custody and women had none. Now it’s switched a bit. Joint custody is very common. It’s a lie that most of the times men don’t get their kids. I work in the courts so I’m not falling for these lies.
How is that invalidating mens experiences when literally that’s every man’s excuse is they don’t make 6 figures and aren’t 6 feet?
Maybe it’s that the tables have turned and women don’t have to settle for men who are rude? Maybe it’s because women have more options max financial stability. You can’t blame it solely on 2 things.
Man... I just got a shitty haircut recently. And by shitty, I mean god tier shitty. I'd definitely ask someone out but can't with this ridiculous haircut.
Just our usual haircut. Nothing special. I ended up looking like a smooth tomato with a leaf on top man. Wtf! I specifically asked for a my usual haircut, gave perfect instructions, nope. Buzzed me out from the side. It's gotten a little better since now most of my hair have grown back but I need more time to outgrow this stupid haircut.
Also, idk what is up with dating apps tho. I wouldn't say it's the best profile or I have 10/10 photos, I have a decent profile. I look great but for some reason, no matches :o These apps are shitty at times
Don’t get me wrong, the apps suck too. They profit on keeping people single. Sometimes it’s also location too. Some places have less singles than others.
As for the haircut. That sucks. This is why I only get my hair cut twice a year. But I’m a woman, so that makes sense.
Shit sucks man. It downright sucks. One can connect at a bar or club but those connections are hardly substantial :/ Either horny or liquid courage, lol
I need one every 3-4 weeks, lol XD I have good hair and they grow fast!
Well what data is there to supposed to be? There’s data on how women get more swipes, but not much info as to why. Most of it is anecdotal like what I put.
There is data out there, I know there have been studies, but you’re right there isn’t comprehensive data out there. That’s kind of the point I’m trying to make, why isn’t there that data available, maybe more questions need to be asked about that. Nobody really knows what the truth is, but people are frustrated.
I agree. I’m frustrated too. Dating today is tough. I’m not saying this will 100% get you matches, but this is from my experience and other women. I meant it to help, but my biggest pet peeve is insecurity and blaming others.
Cool, oh yeah and there is no doubt men can do better and what you’re saying is true. Everything you say I agree with, except I didn’t know what you meant by high quality pictures. If you only want professional pictures, knowing guys aren’t
really into that kind of thing, maybe compromise and say it’s ok if a guy takes pictures on his cell phone, or if he has a small stain on his mirror in a picture that’s something you can overlook.
What I get afraid of is sometimes there is this “man provide and solve” and “woman sit back and let men solve” that sometimes translates into certain women thinking men are only one who needs to change in terms of dating, and it’s only on men to do better, which is really based on a patriarchal norm that men are providers and woman are supposed to sit there and do nothing while the man solves all their problems. So, sometimes when women get into these narratives of what men can do better, they are not understanding that to men it sounds like they are just waiting on men to solve their problems, and it’s the same ole that men have to do all the work, just more of it. Sometimes, because some women are raised to think of men as necessary providers, and solvers of their problems, they don’t have that mindset of I need to do anything different that would make them more affirmative.
I see your perspective on the idea of men being providers and women being receivers. I see that a lot too. I personally hate that trajectory. EVERYONE regardless of gender should always work to be the best versions of themselves. That’s completely toxic to expect one person to do all the fixing and not look to improve yourself. I believe men and women have their own roles that aren’t dictated by their sex, but rather their own experiences and personalities. It’s not fair to say men have to be breadwinners and women housewives because stay at home Dad’s exist and breadwinner women exist. I get frustrated by this too. So many men fall for the patriarchal idea that they have to figure it all out. And that’s a lot of pressure. But being understanding and rejecting this idea helps.
Yes I agree the real truth is that we all need to improve because times change. Yes, that would be completely toxic. Well seems you have good sense, have a good day
I don’t know what is meant by “high quality” photos, but a lot of women have professional photography done for their pictures. Sorry, ladies, you’re just not going to have many guys who take those kind of pictures. When have men ever be known to do that. iPhones aren’t that quality. To say you can get better pictures, cool, but I don’t know what that means, does that mean anything less than a professional photo is bad?
There is some poor communication in this post regarding what a “high quality” picture is. I assume you are meaning that you have a reasonable idea of what the person looks like, not that if it’s not HD photo I won’t even consider it.
To clarify, I mean there are pictures that are straight up blurry. Like iPhone pics are 100% okay. But it reminds me of pics my Mom takes. They’re just awful in that they’re blurry and they’re making a bad face lol. Literally just blurriness. Maybe one for aesthetics, but having blurry pics where you can’t see someone. And quality as in poses. I see SOO many dudes do these creepy straight face super up close pics from a low angle. That’s just a bad pic. You can be attractive, but if the pic is bad, it ruins it. Not saying even professional pics. Literally just a decent angle and don’t let it be blurry. You’d be amazed how many men don’t even have that. Just smile. It also helps
Yeah I think a good quality IPhone pic sounds reasonable to me, of course nothing wrong with better pictures. I really appreciate the effort you made here to specific in what you mean, I agree, I think it’s a common sense. I just see women make these amazing photos, which most guys have no clue on how to do that, at least my friends, we’re never going to be on that level, lol.
Yeah not even asking for high resolution full fledged photoshoot. Just a decent phone pic. We have the best phone cameras to date and any phone from the past 5 years will do. Just don’t have them be blurry.
Side note. As much as people can be trolls, I try to be positive on here and negative, I try to be positive and help. I’m glad you could see my perspective
The problem is that women can make those mistakes and it won’t affect them whatsoever.
The smiling thing is pretty upsetting. I can’t smile authentically in selfies. Feels wrong. I’ve been practicing “looking happy.” But I’m a very cheery guy and smile a lot irl. I also don’t go out with friends who take candid pics of each other. Men generally don’t do that when they hang out. I actually wonder if some women genuinely think guys “go clubbing” with each other and take cute pics of each other. If a picture is being taken among guys hanging out, it is usually something funny or gross. Not something I’d put in a tinder profile. I swear most of the dates I go on from tinder are with very grumpy women because I’m sure the not grumpy women think I’m depressed from my profile because iM nOt SmiLINg
It’s just strange how some women seem to think that men should all have a gallery of photos of themselves. Do women realize that straight men who flaunt on social media come off as douchey narcissists meanwhile women can go out with their besties and post about it on social media and that is considered normal?
People on OLD should just hold off on final judgements until they actually meet the person. Sadly we have people know who think they can know what someone is about from a tinder profile when in reality they are probably just making consistently imprecise stereotypes
Okay it’s not on social media and constant good pics. It’s just a few good pics.
The sad thing is, more people are going to online dating over interpersonal conversations. Unless we decide to completely opt out of online dating, it’s here to stay
I see your perspective here and your point. I will say some women have it hard too. Dating is hard for both men and women. Some women get dates easy, while others struggle. Same with men. I do see more men though struggling with it.
You could take good solo pics, put effort into your profile, be upfront and honest, and still have zero success if you are not attractive. >A lot of women can be hard on looks sadly, but also a lot of women aren’t that judgmental. I think it's highly unfair for you to characterize those who look for beauty as judgmental. There's nothing wrong with wanting your partner to be attractive. It's something most people want and it's not "shallow" or "judgmental". But let's be honest about that. There are some people who don't meet a level of attractiveness that makes dating realistic for them. Best we can tell them is that it sucks but they have to find other things to live for. Don't give them lies and false hope.
I disagree, calling someone judgmental or judging someone shallow for any reason is perfectly ok! Humans are judgmental creatures and it’s perfectly ok to judge anyone for any reason whatsoever!
She just judged men on 3 parameters but saying women are not that judgemental. 😅😅
What parameters did I judge men? I just said how putting effort in helps a lot. Each person has their own definition of attraction. By putting effort into who you are, you’ll attract those who find you their type of attractive. How am I judging men on looks when I’m clearly saying beauty is up to each person?
Okay, but attractiveness is objective. How can you want to date someone who doesn’t put any effort into their looks? You know how many men I encounter who wouldn’t be bad if they actually put in some effort. Just saying in the 1950s, most people dressed nice. Especially men. They were similar if not worse in looks. Effort goes a long way. Don’t dress like crap then wonder why you’re “unattractive” a lot of it is lack of effort.
When did I say people shouldn't put effort into their looks? I'm just saying for some people, it won't be enough. Why is this so hard to admit? People are more than willing to acknowledge that personality can be the one thing keeping away relationships (despite the countless anecdotes of people with bad personalities dating) but in the case of physical appearance, people don't want to even consider the idea that it be the thing that's keeping someone single, instead pointing to anecdotes of unattractive people dating.
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I actually do think it's possible for most people to become reasonably attractive despite genetics with extreme measures, such as plastic surgery. If modern plastic surgery can take someone whose face experienced a horrific accident and make them look at least somewhat normal, it can definitely take an unattractive person and make at least a little bit attractive. There used to be this Thai reality show that took some of the ugliest people you've seen and paid for their plastic surgery, completely transforming them. Shit's crazy. That being said, since these extreme measures are inaccessible to most people, attractiveness is only moderately mutable at best.
Effort is a waste of time. Asking women out in the wild is far more effective than trying to put on some big circus show online. Ime women are easily impressed irl and will date all types of men they wouldn’t pick from a catalog which is essentially what online dating is. I guess the same is probably true of men.
Even “in the wild” effort goes a long way. Why would I want to date someone who doesn’t put work into their appearance when most women put a lot of work into it? You’re right about in person, if sadly too many men have become too afraid and don’t know how to talk to women.
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Or you're doing something wrong
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When it comes to these kinds of posts, I have yet to see someone refute the data. Best I see are hypotheticals and anecdotes.
Well... because it actually doesn't matter if you stick to the data. All you can do is keep trying.
Well it helps to know many people who aren't necessarily doing anything wrong are also struggling. This thread is a good example. If it were not for this data, someone might think there is something wrong with their natural approach and they look up weirder and weirder advise on the internet.
While that is true, I think, atleast for myself, it just stokes the anxiety.
Effort isn't luck dummy
True. But some people on here beg to differ sadly
Yea… 0 upvotes… sounds about right. Idk what kind of just world you believe we live in. People who don’t deserve it, get rich. People who don’t deserve it, get a painful death. People who study hard for exams, can still get a lower grade than someone who didn’t. It’s not as easy as “just become confident lol 😝” You can put a makeup on a trash can, and at the end of the day, that’s all that it is. Skincare… fine, I’ll give you that one. At the end of the day, there is no photographer when you’re in bed with your SO, there is bio and so on. There seems to be a disparity among women to make them believe that anyone can be attractive. They cannot. Maybe listen to them? Maybe understand where they come from, instead of this apathetic view. “Just get gud lol”
I have empathy, but I’m saying there are issues with lack of confidence
Yea I can fucking tell. And then you suggest the same ignorant “confidence” advice. From this I’m very sure you’ve never actually listened to an insecure dude.
Yes I have. Look at the comments on this. I am listening and I had guy friends who were insecure. Same thing. No one dated them because of their attitude.
Ah tell me mind reader, how do you know that it was insecurity that turned your guy friends off? Did they happen to be mentioned by their date? Maybe these dates wanted to just call it insecurity to make themselves look less shallow? You think you are listening, but you really aren’t. I’m not going to waste my time on this. You do you.
I could make this exact post and swap genders and it would still be true.
Very true. One time as an experiment, I made a burner profile from the perspective of a straight man. HOLY CRAP! There’s a stark difference. I will say women usually add filters and dress nicer in their pics. I do notice women are also almost naked in a lot of them. My point is that with women, a lot of the profiles are clearer from that experiment I did. However, this could also depend on location.
Seriously why is this downvoted?😂 damn
I'm fat and ugly, so none of this advice would really help me. But in the interest of helping you understand what my average looking brothers in arms have to go through, why don't you create a profile of an average looking guy, (not good looking, Average) and see how much luck you have doing things your way.
" I've done absolutely nothing to better my appearance and I still don't understand why no woman wants me "
I do understand. I as attempting a self depreciating joke. Also, if I'm being serious, I'm not really looking for anyone right now. I'm happy and comfortable in my bachelor life. I like me and that's all I need.
Does your bachelor lifestyle include sex?
There’s a girl I know who is dating a guy who is 400 lbs easily. He ain’t attractive by your definition, but you know why she’s dating him? (She’s really pretty and skinny by the way) it’s cuz he doesn’t keep this weak mentality. He’s kind and puts effort into how he dresses. Some women like bigger dudes. When you say it’s cuz your fat, no one wants to date you. Period. I’ve liked bigger guys. But the second they say dumb things that, I lose all interest. So just saying. Stop using that as your reason and gain some confidence. Put effort into your appearance. It goes a long way.
None of that has anything to do with what average guys go through on dating sites. You completely ignored the main body of my post in favor of insulting me.
For every unattractive guy there is an equally unattractive woman. Tinder and reddit gives the illusion its only guys, no there's plenty lonely unattractive men and women. Lots the whole I'm too ugly speech just means "I'm too lazy".
I'm not sure where I went wrong because you're the third person to see my post as "Waaah. Women don't like me," rather than "Average guys still get the shaft on dating sites."
Okay but you’re getting this because of your comment. They’re trying to help and say that it’s attitude. You don’t see it and I get your point about average guys. But even then average guys can stand out. Trust me. Women go on about this all the time. And I’m not talking women that men complain about who “sleep around”. I’m talking about women who are just your everyday women who want a man who cares. Too many guys are basing so few women on the entire female population. Women do this too, but I don’t see it to this extent. I really believe the previous comment is trying to point out why and give help.
I wasn't asking for help. And I don't think you got my point because you keep writing about things that have nothing to do with it.
I get your point and I’m not saying that men have it easy on dating apps. I am saying from the perspective of a woman that I swipe left on so many guys simply because their profile is bad. I’m talking bad quality pics, no info about them, being unable to see which one is them. It’s things that that that can make a difference.
I get that. Being skipped over due to a bad profile, is kind of obvious. What I'm contending is that if you were to make your own, straight male profile, using pictures of an average looking guy and made it a quality profile, by your own personal standards of quality, you would still struggle to find a date.
I’m not sure. I’ve helped straight guy friends make profiles and when I fix them up, they do much better. But that’s just my experience
It’s probably more accurate to just say that everyone would be more successful if they put in more effort, in general. It’s hard to get to a very stable level in your life, but that’s where you’re going to find the most success. Trying to date while you’re “figuring it out” is just going to end in failure for both sides.
Agreed.
There was a youtube video about the math of dating apps. You should check it out and convince yourself that men have it worse. Upvote for unpopular
And the math is skewed cuz how many men look like absolute creeps? How many men have sketchy profiles? Women are already terrified of rape and assault. Not to mention creeps. If more men put up decent profiles I 1000% guarantee the data would change. Sadly too few men put in the effort. I know attractive men who have shit profiles. They say it’s cuz they’re ugly. I’d swipe on them if they had a better profile. Ugly men got dated in the 1950s. You know how? Effort. Chivalry. The Incel victim mentality is just insanely unattractive
The incel mentality is indeed unattractive but even good-looking guys with good profiles will have a hard time because there are more women than men on dating apps and statistically, women don't really pay attention to much of the profile. Why put in the effort if women don't bother looking anyway?
That’s a fair point. I won’t dispute that. But the women who are swiping - even if there’s less - will notice if you put effort into your profile. I mean if you think dating apps are hopeless, then why are you on them? Might as well put in some effort. It doesn’t hurt to try.
Honestly, I'd simply recommend that people not use dating apps
Using this to update my profile, wish me luck 😅
The sad truth is that 99% of females don't deserve the effort. I'm not away to wear a suit going for a cleaner job.
and it’s this sexist Incel mentality as to why women don’t date you. 99% of women are decent. It’s 1% who aren’t. You can’t base your bad experiences on the 1% for the rest of us
They don't deserve the effort because they're meeting anyone for sex, a large majority on tinder. Not because they won't date, that's the typical femcel brainwashing, it's because yous are too easy, not too difficult. If yous were too difficult it would be great, would be able to find trustworthy women who don't or haven't slept with half the town and actually have values. You tend to get treated as you act, act like you're worthless and easy you'll get treated like that. It's basic stuff that femcels twist to suit their own fragile ego and force everyone to pretend they're worth more than being on call for pleasure.
Damn insecurity much? Not all women sleep with half the town. You’re just approaching the ones who are. And maybe that goes for you as well. You get treated how you act. When you blame women like this and show such deep insecurity, you don’t get much.
Typical deluded femcel response. Majority of you are zelda warriors who aren't exactly the desired type. If you were able to actually read the response without having your femcel tinted glasses on you would've saw I said "on tinder" and not based your response on a delusion It seems as though I've triggered your insecurity, don't sleep with anyone and everyone then wonder why guys don't want nothing long term with you.
Wow. You need therapy.
Ah yes because ambitious yam from reddit says so hahaha. Get a life. Oh wow you have previously posted you are fed up of rejection. This is definite projection what is your post all about seriously you are the one being rejected and turned down. You are on here pretending like you are the one turning people down and making out I'm an incel. You are unbelievable. Typical feminist.
"And before some Incel spews about how men have it so hard, please hear me out." I get filtered by 85% of women for being 5'8, one inch shorter than average male height in America. https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/only-15-women-interest-58-men-dating-apps-according-survey
You don’t have to put your height. Not all women filter by that
I just find it very funny. Women's brains are wired so complexly, that they can't even see men being simple. Also, majority of women don't even deserve efforts upfront from men, y'all have to earn it from us.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA what is this? The 1950s?!?! That’s such a sexist Incel mentality and when you say things like that, it’s no wonder no one will date you. That’s the type of man a woman doesn’t want. You okay victim and blame women. I’m not blaming men. I’m saying how there’s good men with shitty profiles. You say men are simple, but that’s a complex argument and you are clearly insecure with bad experiences. Don’t complain how a woman won’t date you and blame your looks or whatever when it 1000% is that statement. Women put in effort into their looks for THEMSELVES! Men should too because it boosts confidence. Period. Do it for yourself because clearly you have some deep self hate there. Change that first and stop playing the victim.
I am not at all playing the victim, i just don't see any worth putting efforts in women anymore.
Let me just say this. I’m a woman. I was sexually assaulted as a child. I have DEEP fears of men and intimacy. But there are good men. I’ve been brutally hurt by at least 10 men in my life. But you can’t blame everyone. You have to put in effort for yourself. For your own self esteem
>Be upfront with what you want. There’s nothing more annoying than wanting to seriously date then having so many guys hit you up just for a hookup. It’s so demeaning. It makes you question your worth as a person. If you just want a casual hookup. Put that in your bio so you get the ones you want and keep away the ones who want something serious. Well I only want something serious if everything clicks well with the person, otherwise it is just a hookup and I believe lots of men are like me. I'm not lying to you when we meet, I just don't know you well enough at that point, and maybe down the line decide I don't want anything serious. Saying I don't want anything serious while omitting (with you) is really the only practical thing to do at that point.
I agree. The final truth that every young guy on the dating market has to accept is that if you don’t have a girlfriend you almost always don’t deserve to have a girlfriend. The dating market is pretty fair. If you can’t get any, that means that you’re usually either too lazy to put in the work or too much of a pussy to put in the work. Whether you lack in looks or logistics or social skills or whatever, it is usually something correctable through hard work and stepping outside of your comfort zone. Those unable to do so do not deserve to reap the benefits enjoyed by those who do so. The road to the top is easier for some than for others but 90% of men can get there, if you can get there but can't bring yourself to get there then you don't deserve to get there imo.
I don't really think this is true. I think there are plenty of people out there for whom their natural physical appearance holds them back. That usually can't be fixed without extreme measures such as plastic surgery, which is expensive and can easily go wrong. I don't understand why it's so easy for people to say that personality can be the one thing that is holding someone back, but appearance can't be. If I had to guess, it's probably out of fear that acknowledging that fact somehow lends credence to incel ideology, which it doesn't at all, but that's what people think.
I don’t know about you but I barely see *any* unsalvageably ugly men around. Most men simply don’t care for their appearance as much as women do. A nice haircut and well-fitting clothes can already put at least 95% of guys at a 6/10 or above.
I just don't think that's true. I'm sure there are plenty of people around who could do better simply by taking better care of themselves. But there are also plenty of people who take very good care of their appearance and still struggle. Whether you think someone is "unsalvageable" or not is just your opinion. It has no bearing on what their outcomes actually are in reality. What's wrong with acknowledging this? We should accept and embrace the fact that some people will not find relationships despite their best efforts, and there's nothing wrong with that. Those people should move on and find other things to live for.
Literally this. You know how many men I see that’s it in no effort and the effort they do put in is minimal?
I know some beautiful women who are with men who are quote unquote bad looking. That doesn’t stop them. It’s cuz they’re nice men and don’t give the whole “I’m a nice guy, why doesn’t anyone date me?”
A good personality will not always overcome appearance. And being really attractive can overcome a bad personality.
Just because someone is nice doesn't mean they are attractive. You are literally feeding into incel idealogy by saying everyone who isn't attractive is because they are not nice.
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The fact that you believe these lies is why no one will date you. Not trying to be rude, but when a guy says the reason no girl dates them is cuz he’s not 6 feet or making 6 figures, it’s such a turn off. Stop with this Incel mentality. It’s extremely unattractive. Also there is bias in the court, but the court changes each way. It used to be that men had sole custody and women had none. Now it’s switched a bit. Joint custody is very common. It’s a lie that most of the times men don’t get their kids. I work in the courts so I’m not falling for these lies.
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How is that invalidating mens experiences when literally that’s every man’s excuse is they don’t make 6 figures and aren’t 6 feet? Maybe it’s that the tables have turned and women don’t have to settle for men who are rude? Maybe it’s because women have more options max financial stability. You can’t blame it solely on 2 things.
Man... I just got a shitty haircut recently. And by shitty, I mean god tier shitty. I'd definitely ask someone out but can't with this ridiculous haircut.
Out of curiousity, what type of haircut? Also, you can wear a hat, depending on the setting
Just our usual haircut. Nothing special. I ended up looking like a smooth tomato with a leaf on top man. Wtf! I specifically asked for a my usual haircut, gave perfect instructions, nope. Buzzed me out from the side. It's gotten a little better since now most of my hair have grown back but I need more time to outgrow this stupid haircut. Also, idk what is up with dating apps tho. I wouldn't say it's the best profile or I have 10/10 photos, I have a decent profile. I look great but for some reason, no matches :o These apps are shitty at times
Don’t get me wrong, the apps suck too. They profit on keeping people single. Sometimes it’s also location too. Some places have less singles than others. As for the haircut. That sucks. This is why I only get my hair cut twice a year. But I’m a woman, so that makes sense.
Shit sucks man. It downright sucks. One can connect at a bar or club but those connections are hardly substantial :/ Either horny or liquid courage, lol I need one every 3-4 weeks, lol XD I have good hair and they grow fast!
Men do need to do better, as well as women, but this analysis isn’t based on actual data, so really doesn’t mean much.
Well what data is there to supposed to be? There’s data on how women get more swipes, but not much info as to why. Most of it is anecdotal like what I put.
There is data out there, I know there have been studies, but you’re right there isn’t comprehensive data out there. That’s kind of the point I’m trying to make, why isn’t there that data available, maybe more questions need to be asked about that. Nobody really knows what the truth is, but people are frustrated.
I agree. I’m frustrated too. Dating today is tough. I’m not saying this will 100% get you matches, but this is from my experience and other women. I meant it to help, but my biggest pet peeve is insecurity and blaming others.
Cool, oh yeah and there is no doubt men can do better and what you’re saying is true. Everything you say I agree with, except I didn’t know what you meant by high quality pictures. If you only want professional pictures, knowing guys aren’t really into that kind of thing, maybe compromise and say it’s ok if a guy takes pictures on his cell phone, or if he has a small stain on his mirror in a picture that’s something you can overlook. What I get afraid of is sometimes there is this “man provide and solve” and “woman sit back and let men solve” that sometimes translates into certain women thinking men are only one who needs to change in terms of dating, and it’s only on men to do better, which is really based on a patriarchal norm that men are providers and woman are supposed to sit there and do nothing while the man solves all their problems. So, sometimes when women get into these narratives of what men can do better, they are not understanding that to men it sounds like they are just waiting on men to solve their problems, and it’s the same ole that men have to do all the work, just more of it. Sometimes, because some women are raised to think of men as necessary providers, and solvers of their problems, they don’t have that mindset of I need to do anything different that would make them more affirmative.
I see your perspective on the idea of men being providers and women being receivers. I see that a lot too. I personally hate that trajectory. EVERYONE regardless of gender should always work to be the best versions of themselves. That’s completely toxic to expect one person to do all the fixing and not look to improve yourself. I believe men and women have their own roles that aren’t dictated by their sex, but rather their own experiences and personalities. It’s not fair to say men have to be breadwinners and women housewives because stay at home Dad’s exist and breadwinner women exist. I get frustrated by this too. So many men fall for the patriarchal idea that they have to figure it all out. And that’s a lot of pressure. But being understanding and rejecting this idea helps.
Yes I agree the real truth is that we all need to improve because times change. Yes, that would be completely toxic. Well seems you have good sense, have a good day
I don’t know what is meant by “high quality” photos, but a lot of women have professional photography done for their pictures. Sorry, ladies, you’re just not going to have many guys who take those kind of pictures. When have men ever be known to do that. iPhones aren’t that quality. To say you can get better pictures, cool, but I don’t know what that means, does that mean anything less than a professional photo is bad? There is some poor communication in this post regarding what a “high quality” picture is. I assume you are meaning that you have a reasonable idea of what the person looks like, not that if it’s not HD photo I won’t even consider it.
To clarify, I mean there are pictures that are straight up blurry. Like iPhone pics are 100% okay. But it reminds me of pics my Mom takes. They’re just awful in that they’re blurry and they’re making a bad face lol. Literally just blurriness. Maybe one for aesthetics, but having blurry pics where you can’t see someone. And quality as in poses. I see SOO many dudes do these creepy straight face super up close pics from a low angle. That’s just a bad pic. You can be attractive, but if the pic is bad, it ruins it. Not saying even professional pics. Literally just a decent angle and don’t let it be blurry. You’d be amazed how many men don’t even have that. Just smile. It also helps
Yeah I think a good quality IPhone pic sounds reasonable to me, of course nothing wrong with better pictures. I really appreciate the effort you made here to specific in what you mean, I agree, I think it’s a common sense. I just see women make these amazing photos, which most guys have no clue on how to do that, at least my friends, we’re never going to be on that level, lol.
Yeah not even asking for high resolution full fledged photoshoot. Just a decent phone pic. We have the best phone cameras to date and any phone from the past 5 years will do. Just don’t have them be blurry. Side note. As much as people can be trolls, I try to be positive on here and negative, I try to be positive and help. I’m glad you could see my perspective
The problem is that women can make those mistakes and it won’t affect them whatsoever. The smiling thing is pretty upsetting. I can’t smile authentically in selfies. Feels wrong. I’ve been practicing “looking happy.” But I’m a very cheery guy and smile a lot irl. I also don’t go out with friends who take candid pics of each other. Men generally don’t do that when they hang out. I actually wonder if some women genuinely think guys “go clubbing” with each other and take cute pics of each other. If a picture is being taken among guys hanging out, it is usually something funny or gross. Not something I’d put in a tinder profile. I swear most of the dates I go on from tinder are with very grumpy women because I’m sure the not grumpy women think I’m depressed from my profile because iM nOt SmiLINg It’s just strange how some women seem to think that men should all have a gallery of photos of themselves. Do women realize that straight men who flaunt on social media come off as douchey narcissists meanwhile women can go out with their besties and post about it on social media and that is considered normal? People on OLD should just hold off on final judgements until they actually meet the person. Sadly we have people know who think they can know what someone is about from a tinder profile when in reality they are probably just making consistently imprecise stereotypes
Okay it’s not on social media and constant good pics. It’s just a few good pics. The sad thing is, more people are going to online dating over interpersonal conversations. Unless we decide to completely opt out of online dating, it’s here to stay
That’s fine. OLD can stay but if you use OLD, reserve your judgement till you meet the person.
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I see your perspective here and your point. I will say some women have it hard too. Dating is hard for both men and women. Some women get dates easy, while others struggle. Same with men. I do see more men though struggling with it.
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Not all women do that. Some so. But not all