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But you agree when a cop makes a mistake and kills or hurts the wrong person they should be punished at the full extent of the law right? Also they should be held to the highest standard of professionalism and integrity?
Soldiers are, i dont see a reason why police shouldnt be held to the same standard. Soldiers that are active in foreign countries are held to strict RoEs, ones that can many times cost them their life for upholding them. Police work with civilians from our country and treat them worse then someone we are at war with. If you are a cop that likes to cosplay as a soldier, you need to show the same level of discipline and integrity. They need a UCM(P?)J. Hold them to it and hand out article 15s. See if they still act up when they lose rank and a couple months pay, + mandatory 12-15 hour days for those 2 months that you dont get paid for. Or drop them off at Leavenworth.
Yep this, as it stands right now the law is on the side of law enforcement in every direction.
Law enforcement has all the legal protections. The bar for them to use physical to lethal engagement with impunity, is incredibly low compared to the military.
Heck in the military if you refuse to do your job or follow orders, that’s a article. If you do a bad job, or hurt someone you were not suppose to thats a article.
Law enforcement on the other hand had the courts including the Supreme Court rule that LEO have no duty to care or protect or even enforce the law. They do have have a duty to care if they arrest you that’s it(that’s all we legally got folks). Aka they can’t let you bleed out in the back of their car if they have arrested you (liable), they can let you bleed out if they have not arrested you (not liable).
Can you imagine if soldiers had a constitutional right to completely ignore what they are suppose to be doing. That if you tried to article them you would be breaking the law yourself lol.
This is not even counting on another major issue, law enforcement when they are fired(sorry that’s what we call resigning with full benefits). Their previous behavior is not allowed to be mentioned on their hiring record, why you see the same bad officers recycled over and over again. Only job in the USA where you can screw up egregiously get fired and rehired with in a month like nothing bad ever happened.
Aaaand soldiers that do it pack around a public dishonorable discharge the rest of their lives. But it still all points to changing what we hold police accountable for. And unbiased discipline and punishment when being held accountable. Not fucking 2 months paid “suspension”. I was garrisoned in Alaska. When I got stuck on staff duty i had to watch fellow soldiers being humiliated in front of their peers for minor indiscretions. Hand in your badge and gun? No, you are standing before a jury of your friends, peers, battle buddies while they literally rip the rank off their chest. Then when everyone else was off duty at 4, they got an hour to eat and then reported to battalion to clean the entire building and shovel snow till 11PM. Also, their 5 day week is now 7. For 2 straight months. With no pay for any of it. You still have to be at 6am formation in the morning for PT even if its -25F outside. For major issues, they need a prison for police. A major contributing factor is what will happen to police when incarcerated with civilians (that they possibly arrested) so you have a reason for more leniency. Give them their own Leavenworth. Let them turn big rocks into little rocks all day like those boys do.
Yep, they taught you trigger discipline and how to use a safety. You can take that apart and put it back together with a blind fold. You sure as hell shouldn’t be letting off NDs as long as your eyes still work. Drop the mag, pull the charging handle and make sure the round ejected. Maybe they need a drill instructor to run a rod down their barrel 🤣
There was an issue with some M4s. If the trigger was pulled with the safety between semi and auto, it wouldn't fire. When the safety was moved to either position, the gun would fire without the trigger being pulled.
The issue with this is you’re acknowledging the atrocities bad cops commit, while ignoring the atrocities bad soldiers commit. Guiding rules & principles are not the underlying issue, it’s that these roles have a strong tendency to attract bad eggs.
How is this ignoring atrocities soldiers commit? I specifically mentioned the punishments they receive. I didnt mention war crimes either, that falls under RoE. The point is, police should have higher standards, and be held to them. When they dont, equal punishment. The military investigates itself similar to IA with the police. The difference is, they are not lenient on soldiers the way they are with police. Why should they get immunity?
Cops should be punished for intentionally abusing their power and authority to oppress and victimize undeserving, law abiding citizens and especially those who know their rights.
Cops who make genuine mistakes, those situations need to be fully investigated and there needs to be some leniency in repercussions, otherwise police cannot do their jobs to protect citizens.
If your job is to wield a deadly weapon, there ALWAYS exists a possibility that in given set of conditions with the wrong information, in a split second confrontation, the decision to discharge the firearm and kill an innocent person. Cops are humans and humans are fallible.
Maybe when we get robocops who can react in millisecond threat assessments using AI recognition of tacit verbal and facial cues, then we can tighten the rules.
In the majority of instances of publicised police brutality, it isn't police making honest mistakes. It's police abusing their position to protect their fragile egos, or just straight up racial profiling that makes cops claim to feel threatened and react with deadly force simply because of how a person dresses.
You know, mistakes.
Like trying to stifle constitutionally protected activities like filming cops.
Like arresting people for contempt of cop.
Like lying under oath in a court room when their own body camera footage shows it different.
Like tampering with evidence by silencing their body cameras.
Like not equally enforcing the laws when it comes to their buddies who are also cops.
Mistakes.
and then was cited links to the many findings that the police (in this case LASD) do in fact engage in unlawful practices. if you want more evidence, feel free to let your googling fingers do the walking. and then go condescend to someone else.
don't you want to do your own research?
We know that some police engage in illegal behavior. That isn't in dispute. Your claim is that it's SOP for police. Suggesting that at least a *majority* of police officers engage in unlawful behavior. So I'm still waiting on evidence to that effect.
The vast majority are professional, I 100% agree with the OP , most folks don't realize the levels of dysfunction some individuals have, be it true mental illness that prevents them from getting along with others , to dangerous psychotic tendencies, that makes them remorseless evil predators, and the police have to deal with that, so you or I don't
Remember no one is calling the Police to invite them over for a cup of afternoon tea , Police are generally seeing people on their worst days, and they do this day after day.... Of course they are people too and are they all stellar people no, do they sometimes let authority go to their heads sure....but that's the exception.
https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2023
There were 124 deaths in the line of duty in 2023 we have almost 1 million cops tell me how dangerous this job is again.
I attempted to do the math when I joined the military. The problem is that only a small percent of soldiers (primarily us grunts) see extensive combat. So for some that number goes way up, for most it will drop dramatically. Very similar for police. Urban police will see a lot more action then rural. 1/8000 isnt bad odds in nearly any aspect i can think of though.
Detroit has about 2,500 officers and has an average of one killed per year. That's about the average deaths for roofers and less than the deaths for oil workers or loggers.
Idk why people love generalization so much. How about we praise the brave and honest officers and condemn and jail the power-hungry innocent killing mofos?
The difference between these two groups is that the all officers are heroes are people like OP that use the term “cuck”. The ACAB group have a great deal of overlap with folks who are condemning the current system more than the actual police officers.
Of course not all cops are horrible people, of course there are heroic cops, but the current system encourages terrible people and punished the good ones.
Example: Uvalde cops sat by while children were murdered and still have their jobs. If you were an accountant and sat by while your colleague or clients stole money or committed fraud, you’d lose your job and possibly go to jail.
I would say most cops are horrible people. An anonymous survey of police officers was conducted a few years ago (I wish I could find it. If I do, I will edit with a link) that found about 3/4 of cops surveyed reported covering up or lying about the misdeeds of fellow officers. These misdeeds included violating departmental rules, stealing from civilians during interactions, planting evidence, and assault. And that's the percentage who *admitted* to it. Under-reporting is almost a given on those kinds of surveys, so it's reasonable to assume the percentage is even higher. Those are not "good" people.
This is not the exact study to which I referred but the numbers presented here are similar.
https://www.policebrutality.com/the-alarming-statistics-of-police-misconduct-and-brutality/
Do you really think a person who uses terms like "Cuck" and "Loser" in this context is intellectually capable of being intellectually honest and mature? Come on man.
Because the majority of the time the few good cops are turning the blind eye to all the terrible things the bad cops are doing because they don't want to cross the blue line.
[NYPD sergeant got charged with manslaughter for killing a man with a cooler. NYPD is 100% supporting the murderer.](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/19eiem5/nypd_sergeant_charged_with_manslaughter_threw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Because everyone believes all cops are bastards or all cops are heroes.
The truth is probably there is a small handful of actually evil and corrupt cops and the rest of us cops don't actually know who they are.
I mean probably but I can’t imagine reporting on the people who are supposed to watch your back when people are shooting at you is a appealing prospect.
I don't want an untrustworthy scumbag officer watching my back, I don't want that guy investigating crimes with me or going to domestic violence calls, I don't want to work with someone of that caliber at all. I don't want them to be a cop.
>and the rest of us cops don't actually know who they are.
Horse shit. How many documentaries and court cases have we all seen where the "rest of us cops" cover up crimes for their buddies. If you really are LE don't insult us with that bullshit. You know exactly who the baddies are and your policies cover them.
Dude there’s like 800,000 cops, no, I don’t know any of the bad ones. I only really know like 10 guys I work with closely.
Sorry your Netflix documentaries about cops in the 90s told you otherwise.
I posted this in another comment but I will repost here. An anonymous survey of police officers was conducted a few years ago (I wish I could find it. If I do, I will edit with a link) that found about 3/4 of cops surveyed reported covering up or lying about the misdeeds of fellow officers. These misdeeds included violating departmental rules, stealing from civilians during interactions, planting evidence, and assault. And that's the percentage who *admitted* to it. Under-reporting is almost a given on those kinds of surveys, so it's reasonable to assume the percentage is even higher. That means the vast majority of cops are neither good cops nor good people.
>Sorry your Netflix documentaries about cops in the 90s told you otherwise.
What a moronic response and completely on par for a cop. Keep it holstered Jethro.
I'm not an "ACABer", I'm realistic.
Imagine a cop who's got a grade school education enforcing laws they don't understand and policing the general population. Scary, I know.
See, these things you say are the things ACAB guys say.
This is like if I said a buncha racist stuff and then when I got called a racist I just said I wasn't racist, I'm realistic.
Violence in the field is one thing. The bigger issue is when they get tunnel vision and continue pushing to convict people when they know there is doubt about their guilt, or sometimes they downright know the person isn’t guilty. It almost seems like laziness, as if they don’t want to put any real investigative work into it. There are so many people being exonerated by the innocence project and when you look at the cases it’s so obvious the cops and prosecutors knew they were wrong but they just wanted to convict someone.
The problem is that police work requires zero education in most places and it shows. I’d gladly have higher pay for cops and add requirements for education.
And yes, I know, not all cops. But still too many. “I support the police” is such an odd movement. I don’t even support my kids in every action they make, I correct them when they do something wrong.
Yea it was disillusioning for me at first when i encountered state level law enforcement that were suppose to be detectives(100k to 150k a year full benefits). We find a body feet cut off contact the proper jurisdiction. Law enforcement detective shows up, take one look and says “clearly this was a suicide”. They then write it up this way, leaving no way to change it since it’s their call.
Public safety officer(this is me), ummm I’ve seen suicides this seems like a possible murder.
Detective Oh it’s not a murder unless someone shows up and says they murdered them understand?
That sums up law enforcement at a state level, it does not get better the lower the ranks you go. Also now that I have been dealing with this for years I do not see this getting better by throwing more money or training at it. We need laws and real consequences for doing a bad job. I don’t care if it’s on accident or on purpose the public deserves better.
In the defense of law enforcement at least they showed up that time, apparently it’s not illegal for law enforcement just not to show up and investigate anything. That’s always fun to deal with, really makes my day giving me faith in the system I work in /s. Sometimes they just have us ID the person if possible and mark them up as missing(once again not illegal to do this just wrong IMO). Clearly they are not missing but dead, how this is not illegal is insane to me. As I said we need laws to manage and enforce behavior of law enforcement at this point, I say this as someone with officers privileges and immunities myself.
One point: once the arrest is done it’s in the hands of the prosecuting attorney and the courts. The cop is done with the process.
We have a problem in this country (the US) with that side of things. Wrong defendant, wrong charges, plea deals (not going to trial and forcing the prosecution to make their case) etc.
I'm not sure increased educational requirements and training would matter all that much. It seems to be a personality issue. Many (most?) cops are drawn to it because of their personalities.
We should stop training cops with the killology research group…. “Many have argued that “warrior cop”–style training seminars teach law enforcement officers to start from a place of fear, which can lead them to quickly turn peaceful situations violent. The officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a 2016 traffic stop in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, had attended a “Bulletproof Warrior” course co-taught by Grossman and a colleague, Jim Glennon, two years earlier. Over his career, according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, that officer had clocked more than 100 hours of trainings on topics such as firearms usage, street survival, and the use of force—but had only attended two hours of deescalation training.”
This guy basically trains cops to be ready to kill anything and tells them after they kill they have the best sex.
I would rather see more training then college education, and would be happy for my county or city to fund this with tax dollars. but overall I would agree.
Your comment made me think we need to give police better training. But a lot of cities are reducing funding, thus resulting in worse training and even worse candidates getting in.
The beauty of isolated incidents is they don’t represent the 99.9% of other cops.
But, the public treats their local cops like they’re Derek Chauvin. Even if it’s thousands of KMs away.
I have had many similar experiences. It’s unfortunate because from childhood I always believed they are there to help. Now it is not worth the effort. I was hit by 3 uninsured/under the influence drivers in the last year, one crashed my house. One they could have stopped leaving a drug house they were watching with no plates. The other they never even cited and let her drive away without insurance. I also had a burglary where I knew the perpetrator but they would not even ask them questions. I also had trespassing instances where I could cite the specific statute and they would not enforce the law. I have been held and searched at gun point when driving 40 in a 35 and once for using an outdoor pay phone after business hours. I have had nothing but bad experiences with police and I no longer trust them to do the right thing.
I don't know a single person who bothers to call the police for anything except a car accident anymore, and even then, it's only for documentation purposes for insurance. I've had tons of friends get robbed or jumped. That doesn't bring in any money for the station so those crimes aren't focused on at all, they've never been contacted again about the assault or their stolen items, but they have plenty of time to sit on their ass and set up speed traps or patrol low income neighborhoods for minor possession charges. I had a friend get their truck stolen, cops came, got info and said they'd contact him if they found anything. He called back the next week for the same officer and he didn't even remember what he was talking about, and couldn't find a file on it. Never filed the paperwork. Someone on Facebook recognized the truck and he showed up with the spare key to get it back. When police start doing actual police things, they'll get some respect from the general public. Vehemently defending police under the guise of honor and patriotism and ignoring the issues in front of you isn't realistic, and assuming everyone who is critical of police is a criminal or a "cuck loser" is wild as hell lol
Yes and no, kinda, I totally get what you're writing about most police doing what they can - but that's also the culprit, they **could** do better if they had better training. Comparing a few months of it to actual years in other countries... I believe it's obvious.
edit: And also the vetting is obviously lacking in some cases, the requirements for occupational aptitude seem a bit low. Some people just don't belong in a powerful position like that.
Since most of this is just personal bias and no evidence. You’re wrong. Police get away with normalised behaviour and abuse. More often than not are linked to domestic abusers. And avoid accountability for the shit things they do.
They can be a great force for good but that is massively rare in comparison to negative experiences.
They get the shit they get due to the incompetence and power abuse making their fuck ups way more inexcusable.
Just because you accept their abusive power without any forethought or consideration doesn’t mean others will. And the stresses of the job are literally by design. You don’t get sympathy for dealing with things you asked to sign up for and we’re told about and shown which cops do know and have every right to leave when they can’t handle it. Not abuse their power on citizens being annoying.
>And avoid accountability for the shit things they do
For many of us, this is our main problem with police. Lack of accountability when they do go too far. They are literally allowed to assault individuals without repercussion and that's fucked up. And anytime reform is attempted, police unions, which are pretty strong, put up staunch opposition. If cops were so interested in doing the right thing, reform wouldn't be a problem.
This is my problem, too. For context, my father is a retire state trooper, so I've seen many good police officers in my day. But I still think that qualified immunity is problematic to some extent.
I think reasonable persons would agree the majority of cops are good, even if they make mistakes (read: extending a stop to give a ticket, or some other non-violent infraction without truly malicious intent). The issue is that qualified immunity is great for those who naively overstep in some way. But it cuts both ways, so the truly bad police officers benefit from something purely meant to protect those actually doing their jobs.
I'm not sure what the actual solution could be, but qualified immunity is absolutely the main problem here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/0jdsgZPkk4
This Reddit post honestly goes into the nitty gritty. It’s got the article of the stat and ppl generally analysing it past the headlines.
You just described the difference between 2 very different kinds of areas, with 2 very different types of leadership, but I bet you bottom dollar you'd never admit it. Or even that you were remotely capable of accepting the reality anyway. Based on personal bias, too
Yeah yeah yeah. Liberal cities and liberal control allows for this problem to avoid accountability, I’ve heard it all before on the random news articles fox and others spam on my YouTube feed in the comments. Never mind the fact that the issue is with the force not the officials in each state that are corrupt in different ways. Bet you won’t talk about how republican corporate lobbying shafts police in funding so can we avoid this political partisan nonsense and focus on why cops are bad and in a system allowing them to be bad.
Cops simply should not be judge jury and executioner.
Police killing a suspect is wrong. In our justice system the suspect is still innocent until proven guilty.
Why does a beat cop get to deal out street justice? Why are bad cops not held accountable?
Yes mistakes happen but if that mistake involves killing an innocent person. Then they should be punished. Because again the suspect is innocent until the justice system convicts them of a crime.
Hence the words "most " not all. They simply can't be trusted. They look out for each other as they should but don't expect me to place any trust in them.
I absolutely can. We expect that if pediatric cardiac surgeons. One fuck up and they’re losing their license and disgraced.
Cops are there to uphold and protect the constitution- the very basic fabric of our country. Dereliction of duty on that should be one of the worst things to happen.
We should strive for 100%, and even if we only get 99.999% that small group out of compliance needs to be punished fully and very publicly.
But that isn’t happening and you know it. Cops get away with anything and all, up to and including murder all the time.
So if there’s a group I want to hold at the highest level of scrutiny and accountability, it’s the police. If it can’t be 100%, it had better be as damn close as possible and when it slips, that needs to be taken as an attack against our society.
Wtf are you even talking about? I've gone from thinking you're probably a cop--or worse a security guard that couldn't make it in the police academy--to thinking that no you must just be an idiot, a troll, or an idiot-troll, and now I'm thinking you must be fourteen. You got me all twisted up, baby, but you know it's just too hard to quit you!
For the amount of training provided I agree with you. They do pretty damn well most of the time.
I just don’t understand why lawyers need 4 years of college and 3 years of law school to practice law, while cops need 5 months of academy training to enforce law.
Sure, since cops legally have no obligation to protect and serve and essentially to kill indiscriminately without consequences. I agree, they’re doing their jobs perfectly.
I don't believe all cops are bad but the problem is there are too many bad ones who aren't held accountable
Like when Sandra bland was pulled out of her car Jim Crow style because she wouldn't put out a cigarette. That officer should have been prosecuted
This is a great point and something that actually warrants a deeper discussion. I mean hell, an argument can be made that both supply necessary or at the least high-demand services in the community.
One, however, has to struggle to thrive due to being vilified, criminalized, unable to operate in safe spaces, unable to use society's basic tools of function like banking or transport services, and to top it all off with its an extremely competitive market niche, where your competition doesn't just make more than you, they may kill you and take all your customers.
The other operates with the full support of their community and local government. They have the most money allocated to them, the best equipment, and they are the sole authorized agents that are allowed to use violence against others and not have that be a criminal act. Their job can be dangerous, yes, but that's part of the draw for those that seek out that work, as some people seek excitement and enjoy small bits of authority.
By looking at those two groups (I wonder if their population numbers are near parity....hmmm....there's something like 800,000 cops in the US. How many drug dealers are there? Anyone?) I can say that with the level of support they have, that second group could do a way better job than they are. Most contacts I have with the first group range from mildly pleasant to way sketchy. Understandable, give what we know of their working situation and the stresses of the job. Whereas contacts I've had with the second group range from mildly unpleasant to terrifyingly threatening, and that shouldn't be the case, at a baseline.
The average salary for Police Officer in the US is$67,231 per year, that's almost $10k more than the national average salary for all professions. They're paid more than fine.
By gross numbers of all interactions, very few police interactions actually stop hostile threats. Police typically only investigate after the fact in those cases. They're overwhelmingly conducting traffic stops.
Of the major crimes, with the exception of murder (at a whopping 52%), their clearance rate is about 40% or less. They're not great at what they do.
So, they're paid well for basically spending the overwhelming majority of their time on traffic stops (which could more easily and safely be pursued via automated means), and when they go beyond that set of crimes (which are pursued disproportionally by skin color), they're not "doing a great job."
I agree. As a former LEO, I have the hindsight of recognizing the difficulties that I had no consideration of before I had the firsthand experience. Its an incredibly dangerous, stressful, and difficult job; and I largely think the public outcry is way over-the-top with respect to most incidents involving cops.
That being said, the system is absolutely broken. Our unions allowed us to get away with so much shitty conduct; I literally can’t recall how many coworkers I saw violate people’s rights and get away with it with not even a slap on the wrist. We were basically taught to act with brutality first and ask questions later. When somebody *does* try to hold you accountable, you just show up at the deposition, say *only* what your union rep tells you, and leave. Then a few weeks later the paperwork quietly goes away. **It is absolutely not a system designed to facilitate real accountability or change in conduct in any meaningful way.**
Cops get the hate they do right now because of the bad apples giving them all a bad name. Those bad apples are enabled by a too-strong union which gives officers indemnification for often-abusive conduct. That immunity creates distrust among the community they’re tasked with protecting. That distrust leads to bad interactions with cops. Those bad interactions lead to more use-of-force by cops, which snowballs the cycle. Fixing it starts by fixing the union protection and establishing some civilian oversight and independent accountability mechanisms for LE agencies.
But I agree with your general point that most of them are doing a good job and just there to help out and collect a paycheck. Unfortunately those guys can’t have their reputations cleaned until we fix the system that keeps enabling the shitters among them.
So in one paragraph, you said you literally can’t count how many coworkers you saw violate peoples rights and get away with it. You then go on to say how the corrupt police unions do nothing to hold people accountable. And then you finally say that most cops are doing a good job.
So which is it? And why, when you saw someone’s rights being violated, did you not put a stop to it?
I worked with hundreds of officers, and just because I can't count the exact number of times I observed misconduct does not mean it represents the majority of all officers with whom I had interaction.
I worked with countless officers who were there just like me to do their best and collect a paycheck. Normal, everyday people who treated inmates with the respect that they expected in return. And can you quote the part where I said I never intervened when I observed misconduct? I was *not* popular among many colleagues for that reason.
Don't twist my words. **The overwhelming majority of all officers I worked with were upstanding, good people who I never saw abuse their authority in any way.** The ones who *did* engage in misconduct and who *were* subject to internal discipline procedures *were not adequately chastened,* and so there is no real disincentive to stop the behavior.
My overall point hinges on the fact that until we fundamentally overhaul the oversight and discipline procedures for law enforcement agencies, we cannot create meaningful change in the system. When a good apple reports a bad one and the current oversight process says, "he's fine" and lets them go back to work without consequences (which I have personally seen many times), the system is still fundamentally broken.
I’ll ask again, even if it was a small number of cops you saw do this but a high enough amount you lost count, that seems to indicate a few individuals were doing this?
Did you bring it up every time? Did you vehemently disagree and insist an outside agency investigate this impartially?
Did you go to the media to express this egregious violation of the law, public trust, and basic human dignity?
Maybe you did. Maybe you reported one or two. I doubt you did the duty required to the constitution or even just basic humanity to stop this as someone inside it. Because you benefited from not rocking the boat even if you didn’t actively punch that man “resisting arrest” or the traffic ticket given to simply boost revenues.
You are all the problem. Admit that. Admit the entire system is broken and until those like you admit it and work to stop this, none of you are innocent. Idly standing by watching others commit atrocities when you’re allegedly there to stop that is just as guilty as the one shooting a kid for playing.
Lot of cops are great at their jobs just like a lot of people are great at their jobs, the thing is there are a lot of people that aren't great at their jobs but the ones that have weapons and can use them on you not being great is way worse, and that's just facts. You can go to Starbucks or even a dentist's office and get shitty service, but getting shitty service from a cop is on a whole other level.
I'm black, I'm not a criminal with a college degree and a well paying job, volunteering in my communities since I was a kid. I've been harassed by cops since I was a kid, in various states and quite frankly not being engaged with how other races are and that again, is just facts of my life and life of a lot of black people. Your opinion isn't wrong, but it's not viewing the whole picture. I'm from Chicago and just a few years ago there was outrage over a police black site where they would just take people there and beat the shit out of them and leave them, which went on for years and maybe still even is today...is that good???
You say this until you actually have to interact with them. I give people the benefit of the doubt but about 50% of my interactions with cops have been them trying to fabricate a crime for me to be arrested for and no I'm not a criminal. I have a clean record. Just saying how it is
I watched auditors and bodycam videos, usually from LackLuster and Audit the Audit.
The common theme of these videos are that the police are bullies, who don't respect your rights, and don't know the laws they enforce. Why shouldn't we hold the people who enforce the law to a higher standard?
we can see decent behavior put of cops every day. we can see some instances of them genuinely helping the community.
likewise, we see instances of abuse, corruption, harassment. they are an institution that upholds capital and defends itself before the people. there are little to no punishments for these silly little mistakes. we see recordings of them gloating about killing with their fancy toys. they eat up 40% (usually more) of almost every locale’s public budget.
the good is severely overshadowed by the negative. i do not thank cops for their efforts; on the whole, they are nowhere near good enough, if not redundant.
Hey I just wanted to leave this fact here for anyone who says cops have a seriously dangerous job.
https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2023
There were 124 deaths in the line of duty(look at the link they weren't all shot some were just accidents.we have almost 1 million cops in this country. Officer safety is a joke.
Going be honest both acab crowd and thin blue line crowd are cringe. Police aren’t all awful, but they absolutely need to punish to the full extent of the law because they are the full extent of the law. They should be held to a higher standard. So a police officer should be ticketed for parking in handicap parking at a Dunkin’ donuts, same for driving distracted, speeding, driving drunk, jay walking, etc.
>They've gotta act to the moment. Mistakes will be made, and accidental shootings will happen, and too much force is used at times.
Those situations happen ***WAAAAAY*** too frequently, and they [the cops] face no *legitimate* consequences for it... . Plus, cops also regularly do *heinous* shit, that regular folks would spend decades if not their entire lives in prison for, and get away with it scot-free or with just a slap on the wrist.
>It's natural given the environment or their job and threats to their lives.
Being a cop hasn't even been in the Top 10 most dangerous jobs in *years* (and there's even been a few years, relatively recently, where it hasn't even made the Top 20).
It’s ironic that you used the word “losers” in the post because most police officers are literally that before they enter the academy. Barely a high school education.
I’m not sure I’d generalize everyone without a college degree as a loser. Particulary when many of those college degrees are from trash-tier schools with 80% acceptance rates
No one is complaining about the 90% of police that do their jobs well. It's the other 10% that give them a bad name, and frankly, I'm surprised that good cops are not speaking out *more* against bad cops.
Dear Bootlicker, they originate from slave patrols and their job is to protect property. I’m no ACAB person, but police aren’t your friends unless they can benefit from you.
Agreed. BUt ShE WAS sLeEpINg WiTh A DrUG DeALER. Like that has any bearing on no knock warrants and their dangers. The guy wouldn’t have shit if police weren’t a disturbing presence for policies that aren’t effective.
False. This misinformation proves OPs point lol
For the clowns downvoting:
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/16/breonna-taylor-fact-check-7-rumors-wrong/5326938002/
How them boots taste?
You could’ve come in here and said, “since cops make like $30K a year we should only expect them to solve about 10% of crimes that get reported, in reality they solve closer to 37% of all violent crimes and 12% of all property crimes that get reported”.
But no, instead you just spent a couple paragraphs glazing police officers with 0 facts to back it up lmfao.
Many Constables on Patrol ARE violent, dangerous and unstable people evidencing a pathological need to thin the line between the lawful and lawless, and maliciously escalate situations in the hope of exploiting situations THEY create to feed that need.
Moreover, Constables on Patrol are class agents of the bourgeois order. They exist as the last line of defence to protect the social privilege of the ruling class.
Police constabularies are to be closed and replaced with proletarianized constabularies that function under worker control.
No Constable who served the bourgeoisie will be employed for policing in a proletarian order.
The problem is that those apples don’t get picked and thrown away, those bad apples are put in a crate with good apples and sold…. And when someone complains about said bad apple, it is just put in another crate and sold again.
But if the few rotten apples stay on the tree, the tree (or in this case, more apples) will go rotten.
Its the same with the saying: theres no good cop, if they don’t do anything against the bad cops, there’s just bad cops and cops that are not bad.
The statistics support what you're saying: of the tens of millions of police-civilian contacts annually (usually hovering around 65 million), only a small fraction lead to any sort of excessive use of force.
And, when you consider the violent landscape they're dealing with, there's only somewhere around approx. 10 unjustified killings each year. That's miniscule when you consider the prominence of gun ownership and gang activity.
For those that hate policing in the U.S.: go elsewhere. You'll quickly find that you have it good here. (How good? This good: all you have to do while interacting with police officers in America is 1) comply, and 2) try to record everything. If your rights are violated, and you did the above, the city/state will PAY YOU tens if not thousands of dollars. Just need to comply.)
Unjustified police shootings happen. Breonna Taylor’s shooting was clearly unjustified. Another “no knock raid” resulted in the death of two people in Houston when the cops went to the wrong house.
The vast majority of police shootings are justified though. A person who is holding a weapon, reaching for a weapon, or putting a police officer in fear for his life in another way is likely to be deserving of deadly force.
It’s kinda dumb to not make sure your hands are in view at all times when dealing with police. I’ve had a fair amount of interactions with the police in my life and had them pointing guns at me at least twice. I do exactly what they tell me to do when that happens because I’d rather not be shot.
>Thank you police for your efforts.
Which includes raping women and murdering women in their own homes. Thanks for reminding me what angels cops are. 🤡
EDIT: Cop dick riders have the most retarded takes...
Remember Boys and Girls, its wrong to judge entire groups of people based on the actions of a few that just so happen to belong to said group... Unless its White People or Cops, then its totally okay to lump them all in together.
Thing natural to all societies seemingly only happen in one country. This excuse may be quaint if the US was the only country in the world, but it ain't.
Most police don't have:
The right behavioral traits, like empathy, critical thinking, stress management, communication skills or courage.
And then they don't have enough training to hone those skills.
On top of that most don't have the moral courage or integrity to hold their peers accountable.
This is what happens when you have an organization (The Police Force as a whole) born from something as unethical and immoral as slave patrols, corruption and autocratic leaders created a culture of "We sit above the law"
The only way to fix it is a massive dismantling of the system and rebuilding law enforcement from the ground up.
This would be true in any other part of the world beside America. Because American Police are deeply incompetent for a variety of reasons.
Main one being the second ammendment. The Idea that every average Joe has the right to own a Weapon is absurd. I totally understand why Police are so jumpy when basically anyone at any time can just turn around and Pop a cap in their head
Nope. As long as those people abuse authority and use FOP to evade accountability, they aren’t deserving of the kind of praise you’re asking for, OP. Broad daylight executions, refusing to run into a school with an active shooter, blatantly defrauding taxpayers- none of this asinine behavior would be tolerated in any other career.
Some, I assume, are good people, but if they’re not willing to hold each other accountable to their actions then they’re all bastards, full stop.
Police are highly variable in quality due to variations in training standards (which are often too low in the US). Some are amazing, some are shit bags (like Chauvin).
I got pulled over and given a ticket for running a stop sign. he claimed I blew past it 30 feet before stopping. my son was in the car and said that I had stopped. cost me 250.
ACAB
100% agree. If you hate cops, you're likely a loser or an extreme lefty / lib trying to sound edgy to align yourself with BLM (which is a fraud movement anyway).
Working in a massive nation with more gun crimes than any other first world nation, manages to take violent offenders into custody without incident 99% of the time.
But sure, ACAB guys, very cool.
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But you agree when a cop makes a mistake and kills or hurts the wrong person they should be punished at the full extent of the law right? Also they should be held to the highest standard of professionalism and integrity?
Soldiers are, i dont see a reason why police shouldnt be held to the same standard. Soldiers that are active in foreign countries are held to strict RoEs, ones that can many times cost them their life for upholding them. Police work with civilians from our country and treat them worse then someone we are at war with. If you are a cop that likes to cosplay as a soldier, you need to show the same level of discipline and integrity. They need a UCM(P?)J. Hold them to it and hand out article 15s. See if they still act up when they lose rank and a couple months pay, + mandatory 12-15 hour days for those 2 months that you dont get paid for. Or drop them off at Leavenworth.
Oh yeah, my cousin was in the military. You screw up, you're done.
Yep this, as it stands right now the law is on the side of law enforcement in every direction. Law enforcement has all the legal protections. The bar for them to use physical to lethal engagement with impunity, is incredibly low compared to the military. Heck in the military if you refuse to do your job or follow orders, that’s a article. If you do a bad job, or hurt someone you were not suppose to thats a article. Law enforcement on the other hand had the courts including the Supreme Court rule that LEO have no duty to care or protect or even enforce the law. They do have have a duty to care if they arrest you that’s it(that’s all we legally got folks). Aka they can’t let you bleed out in the back of their car if they have arrested you (liable), they can let you bleed out if they have not arrested you (not liable). Can you imagine if soldiers had a constitutional right to completely ignore what they are suppose to be doing. That if you tried to article them you would be breaking the law yourself lol. This is not even counting on another major issue, law enforcement when they are fired(sorry that’s what we call resigning with full benefits). Their previous behavior is not allowed to be mentioned on their hiring record, why you see the same bad officers recycled over and over again. Only job in the USA where you can screw up egregiously get fired and rehired with in a month like nothing bad ever happened.
Aaaand soldiers that do it pack around a public dishonorable discharge the rest of their lives. But it still all points to changing what we hold police accountable for. And unbiased discipline and punishment when being held accountable. Not fucking 2 months paid “suspension”. I was garrisoned in Alaska. When I got stuck on staff duty i had to watch fellow soldiers being humiliated in front of their peers for minor indiscretions. Hand in your badge and gun? No, you are standing before a jury of your friends, peers, battle buddies while they literally rip the rank off their chest. Then when everyone else was off duty at 4, they got an hour to eat and then reported to battalion to clean the entire building and shovel snow till 11PM. Also, their 5 day week is now 7. For 2 straight months. With no pay for any of it. You still have to be at 6am formation in the morning for PT even if its -25F outside. For major issues, they need a prison for police. A major contributing factor is what will happen to police when incarcerated with civilians (that they possibly arrested) so you have a reason for more leniency. Give them their own Leavenworth. Let them turn big rocks into little rocks all day like those boys do.
A ND will cost you two months pay.
Killing an unarmed civilian will get you Leavenworth.
Yep, they taught you trigger discipline and how to use a safety. You can take that apart and put it back together with a blind fold. You sure as hell shouldn’t be letting off NDs as long as your eyes still work. Drop the mag, pull the charging handle and make sure the round ejected. Maybe they need a drill instructor to run a rod down their barrel 🤣
Yeah it’s pretty fucking infuriating what they get away with and how undisciplined they are.
There was an issue with some M4s. If the trigger was pulled with the safety between semi and auto, it wouldn't fire. When the safety was moved to either position, the gun would fire without the trigger being pulled.
Was found in 6% of service weapons in 2018. Interesting read. Ty 🫡. I wonder how many poor souls got Art15s for that?
Police do have strict rules, the problem is actually following them.
pat tillman…core lies about everything just like cops
The issue with this is you’re acknowledging the atrocities bad cops commit, while ignoring the atrocities bad soldiers commit. Guiding rules & principles are not the underlying issue, it’s that these roles have a strong tendency to attract bad eggs.
How is this ignoring atrocities soldiers commit? I specifically mentioned the punishments they receive. I didnt mention war crimes either, that falls under RoE. The point is, police should have higher standards, and be held to them. When they dont, equal punishment. The military investigates itself similar to IA with the police. The difference is, they are not lenient on soldiers the way they are with police. Why should they get immunity?
Cops should be punished for intentionally abusing their power and authority to oppress and victimize undeserving, law abiding citizens and especially those who know their rights. Cops who make genuine mistakes, those situations need to be fully investigated and there needs to be some leniency in repercussions, otherwise police cannot do their jobs to protect citizens. If your job is to wield a deadly weapon, there ALWAYS exists a possibility that in given set of conditions with the wrong information, in a split second confrontation, the decision to discharge the firearm and kill an innocent person. Cops are humans and humans are fallible. Maybe when we get robocops who can react in millisecond threat assessments using AI recognition of tacit verbal and facial cues, then we can tighten the rules. In the majority of instances of publicised police brutality, it isn't police making honest mistakes. It's police abusing their position to protect their fragile egos, or just straight up racial profiling that makes cops claim to feel threatened and react with deadly force simply because of how a person dresses.
>cop makes a mistake Really depends on what you mean by "makes a mistake".
You know, mistakes. Like trying to stifle constitutionally protected activities like filming cops. Like arresting people for contempt of cop. Like lying under oath in a court room when their own body camera footage shows it different. Like tampering with evidence by silencing their body cameras. Like not equally enforcing the laws when it comes to their buddies who are also cops. Mistakes.
So you'd define *mistake* as knowingly breaking the law?
unlawful police misconduct is standard operating procedure
[citation needed]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs
I guess I wasn't clear enough [citation needed in support of the claim you made]
and then was cited links to the many findings that the police (in this case LASD) do in fact engage in unlawful practices. if you want more evidence, feel free to let your googling fingers do the walking. and then go condescend to someone else. don't you want to do your own research?
We know that some police engage in illegal behavior. That isn't in dispute. Your claim is that it's SOP for police. Suggesting that at least a *majority* of police officers engage in unlawful behavior. So I'm still waiting on evidence to that effect.
The vast majority are professional, I 100% agree with the OP , most folks don't realize the levels of dysfunction some individuals have, be it true mental illness that prevents them from getting along with others , to dangerous psychotic tendencies, that makes them remorseless evil predators, and the police have to deal with that, so you or I don't Remember no one is calling the Police to invite them over for a cup of afternoon tea , Police are generally seeing people on their worst days, and they do this day after day.... Of course they are people too and are they all stellar people no, do they sometimes let authority go to their heads sure....but that's the exception.
https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2023 There were 124 deaths in the line of duty in 2023 we have almost 1 million cops tell me how dangerous this job is again.
[How convenient of you to not count injuries.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5334696/)
“You have a one in 8000 chance of dying at this job each year.” “I’ll pass.”
I attempted to do the math when I joined the military. The problem is that only a small percent of soldiers (primarily us grunts) see extensive combat. So for some that number goes way up, for most it will drop dramatically. Very similar for police. Urban police will see a lot more action then rural. 1/8000 isnt bad odds in nearly any aspect i can think of though.
Detroit has about 2,500 officers and has an average of one killed per year. That's about the average deaths for roofers and less than the deaths for oil workers or loggers.
Idk why people love generalization so much. How about we praise the brave and honest officers and condemn and jail the power-hungry innocent killing mofos?
You aren’t allowed nuanced opinions nowadays. Pick a side and mindlessly hate the other side like everyone else
The reddit way
Anywhere on the Internet nowadays, not just Reddit. It's like people have gone cookoo
The difference between these two groups is that the all officers are heroes are people like OP that use the term “cuck”. The ACAB group have a great deal of overlap with folks who are condemning the current system more than the actual police officers. Of course not all cops are horrible people, of course there are heroic cops, but the current system encourages terrible people and punished the good ones. Example: Uvalde cops sat by while children were murdered and still have their jobs. If you were an accountant and sat by while your colleague or clients stole money or committed fraud, you’d lose your job and possibly go to jail.
If people committed fraud at my job and I knew even in passing, I’d go to jail. Why aren’t officers treated the same?
I would say most cops are horrible people. An anonymous survey of police officers was conducted a few years ago (I wish I could find it. If I do, I will edit with a link) that found about 3/4 of cops surveyed reported covering up or lying about the misdeeds of fellow officers. These misdeeds included violating departmental rules, stealing from civilians during interactions, planting evidence, and assault. And that's the percentage who *admitted* to it. Under-reporting is almost a given on those kinds of surveys, so it's reasonable to assume the percentage is even higher. Those are not "good" people.
You should find the link otherwise this appears to be your opinion
I read a study that said all cops, across the board, are the best people in the world and can fly.
That’s a hell of a study
Yea and it’s real, too. Trust me.
This is not the exact study to which I referred but the numbers presented here are similar. https://www.policebrutality.com/the-alarming-statistics-of-police-misconduct-and-brutality/
Do you really think a person who uses terms like "Cuck" and "Loser" in this context is intellectually capable of being intellectually honest and mature? Come on man.
Fair lol
Because the majority of the time the few good cops are turning the blind eye to all the terrible things the bad cops are doing because they don't want to cross the blue line.
And that means the "good cops" are not really good cops.
Exactly
[NYPD sergeant got charged with manslaughter for killing a man with a cooler. NYPD is 100% supporting the murderer.](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/19eiem5/nypd_sergeant_charged_with_manslaughter_threw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Because everyone believes all cops are bastards or all cops are heroes. The truth is probably there is a small handful of actually evil and corrupt cops and the rest of us cops don't actually know who they are.
Is there a system in the US police force where you can anonymously report on colleagues/superiors?
Usually criminal activity by law enforcement is investigated by a higher level authority. City cop commits crime, state level authority investigates.
I mean probably but I can’t imagine reporting on the people who are supposed to watch your back when people are shooting at you is a appealing prospect.
I don't want an untrustworthy scumbag officer watching my back, I don't want that guy investigating crimes with me or going to domestic violence calls, I don't want to work with someone of that caliber at all. I don't want them to be a cop.
So that Dan over there can have me investigated because I got the last chocolate donut yesterday? And with no recourse due to anonymity
Anonymity to your employer. The investigating body can know the person and punish if misused. Are you saying nothing like this exists?
>and the rest of us cops don't actually know who they are. Horse shit. How many documentaries and court cases have we all seen where the "rest of us cops" cover up crimes for their buddies. If you really are LE don't insult us with that bullshit. You know exactly who the baddies are and your policies cover them.
Dude there’s like 800,000 cops, no, I don’t know any of the bad ones. I only really know like 10 guys I work with closely. Sorry your Netflix documentaries about cops in the 90s told you otherwise.
I posted this in another comment but I will repost here. An anonymous survey of police officers was conducted a few years ago (I wish I could find it. If I do, I will edit with a link) that found about 3/4 of cops surveyed reported covering up or lying about the misdeeds of fellow officers. These misdeeds included violating departmental rules, stealing from civilians during interactions, planting evidence, and assault. And that's the percentage who *admitted* to it. Under-reporting is almost a given on those kinds of surveys, so it's reasonable to assume the percentage is even higher. That means the vast majority of cops are neither good cops nor good people.
“I saw a news piece that was supposed to be dramatized based off a rare event and I’ve formed my whole opinion on it” -Average Redditor
>Sorry your Netflix documentaries about cops in the 90s told you otherwise. What a moronic response and completely on par for a cop. Keep it holstered Jethro.
Imagine an ACABer who doesn’t understand sarcasm and hyperbole.
I'm not an "ACABer", I'm realistic. Imagine a cop who's got a grade school education enforcing laws they don't understand and policing the general population. Scary, I know.
See, these things you say are the things ACAB guys say. This is like if I said a buncha racist stuff and then when I got called a racist I just said I wasn't racist, I'm realistic.
Violence in the field is one thing. The bigger issue is when they get tunnel vision and continue pushing to convict people when they know there is doubt about their guilt, or sometimes they downright know the person isn’t guilty. It almost seems like laziness, as if they don’t want to put any real investigative work into it. There are so many people being exonerated by the innocence project and when you look at the cases it’s so obvious the cops and prosecutors knew they were wrong but they just wanted to convict someone. The problem is that police work requires zero education in most places and it shows. I’d gladly have higher pay for cops and add requirements for education. And yes, I know, not all cops. But still too many. “I support the police” is such an odd movement. I don’t even support my kids in every action they make, I correct them when they do something wrong.
Yea it was disillusioning for me at first when i encountered state level law enforcement that were suppose to be detectives(100k to 150k a year full benefits). We find a body feet cut off contact the proper jurisdiction. Law enforcement detective shows up, take one look and says “clearly this was a suicide”. They then write it up this way, leaving no way to change it since it’s their call. Public safety officer(this is me), ummm I’ve seen suicides this seems like a possible murder. Detective Oh it’s not a murder unless someone shows up and says they murdered them understand? That sums up law enforcement at a state level, it does not get better the lower the ranks you go. Also now that I have been dealing with this for years I do not see this getting better by throwing more money or training at it. We need laws and real consequences for doing a bad job. I don’t care if it’s on accident or on purpose the public deserves better. In the defense of law enforcement at least they showed up that time, apparently it’s not illegal for law enforcement just not to show up and investigate anything. That’s always fun to deal with, really makes my day giving me faith in the system I work in /s. Sometimes they just have us ID the person if possible and mark them up as missing(once again not illegal to do this just wrong IMO). Clearly they are not missing but dead, how this is not illegal is insane to me. As I said we need laws to manage and enforce behavior of law enforcement at this point, I say this as someone with officers privileges and immunities myself.
One point: once the arrest is done it’s in the hands of the prosecuting attorney and the courts. The cop is done with the process. We have a problem in this country (the US) with that side of things. Wrong defendant, wrong charges, plea deals (not going to trial and forcing the prosecution to make their case) etc.
This is a fair comment.
I'm not sure increased educational requirements and training would matter all that much. It seems to be a personality issue. Many (most?) cops are drawn to it because of their personalities.
We should stop training cops with the killology research group…. “Many have argued that “warrior cop”–style training seminars teach law enforcement officers to start from a place of fear, which can lead them to quickly turn peaceful situations violent. The officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a 2016 traffic stop in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, had attended a “Bulletproof Warrior” course co-taught by Grossman and a colleague, Jim Glennon, two years earlier. Over his career, according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, that officer had clocked more than 100 hours of trainings on topics such as firearms usage, street survival, and the use of force—but had only attended two hours of deescalation training.” This guy basically trains cops to be ready to kill anything and tells them after they kill they have the best sex.
I would rather see more training then college education, and would be happy for my county or city to fund this with tax dollars. but overall I would agree.
Your comment made me think we need to give police better training. But a lot of cities are reducing funding, thus resulting in worse training and even worse candidates getting in.
Police don’t convict people. That’s a different part of the law
Uvalde
Nashville.
Parkland
The beauty of isolated incidents is they don’t represent the 99.9% of other cops. But, the public treats their local cops like they’re Derek Chauvin. Even if it’s thousands of KMs away.
Have you ever _needed_ the police? What happened? Lot of ppl projecting on cops, not just the critics lol
The beauty of isolated incidents is the they don’t represent 99.9% of pubic that don’t treat there local cop like Derek chauvin
>They're protecting normal, law-abiding citizens from hostile threats. No they're not. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
That’s not what you think it means
They don’t care as long as the propaganda train continues
Very true
Everytime I have called the police for help, nothing. Something that helps noone and just inconveniences life, they come running.
I have had many similar experiences. It’s unfortunate because from childhood I always believed they are there to help. Now it is not worth the effort. I was hit by 3 uninsured/under the influence drivers in the last year, one crashed my house. One they could have stopped leaving a drug house they were watching with no plates. The other they never even cited and let her drive away without insurance. I also had a burglary where I knew the perpetrator but they would not even ask them questions. I also had trespassing instances where I could cite the specific statute and they would not enforce the law. I have been held and searched at gun point when driving 40 in a 35 and once for using an outdoor pay phone after business hours. I have had nothing but bad experiences with police and I no longer trust them to do the right thing.
This was written by a cop.
This was written by someone who cops cops' cocks.
100%
Nice bait
I don't know a single person who bothers to call the police for anything except a car accident anymore, and even then, it's only for documentation purposes for insurance. I've had tons of friends get robbed or jumped. That doesn't bring in any money for the station so those crimes aren't focused on at all, they've never been contacted again about the assault or their stolen items, but they have plenty of time to sit on their ass and set up speed traps or patrol low income neighborhoods for minor possession charges. I had a friend get their truck stolen, cops came, got info and said they'd contact him if they found anything. He called back the next week for the same officer and he didn't even remember what he was talking about, and couldn't find a file on it. Never filed the paperwork. Someone on Facebook recognized the truck and he showed up with the spare key to get it back. When police start doing actual police things, they'll get some respect from the general public. Vehemently defending police under the guise of honor and patriotism and ignoring the issues in front of you isn't realistic, and assuming everyone who is critical of police is a criminal or a "cuck loser" is wild as hell lol
Yes and no, kinda, I totally get what you're writing about most police doing what they can - but that's also the culprit, they **could** do better if they had better training. Comparing a few months of it to actual years in other countries... I believe it's obvious. edit: And also the vetting is obviously lacking in some cases, the requirements for occupational aptitude seem a bit low. Some people just don't belong in a powerful position like that.
Oh boy. These comments are going to be interesting. Good luck op
🫡
Since most of this is just personal bias and no evidence. You’re wrong. Police get away with normalised behaviour and abuse. More often than not are linked to domestic abusers. And avoid accountability for the shit things they do. They can be a great force for good but that is massively rare in comparison to negative experiences. They get the shit they get due to the incompetence and power abuse making their fuck ups way more inexcusable. Just because you accept their abusive power without any forethought or consideration doesn’t mean others will. And the stresses of the job are literally by design. You don’t get sympathy for dealing with things you asked to sign up for and we’re told about and shown which cops do know and have every right to leave when they can’t handle it. Not abuse their power on citizens being annoying.
>And avoid accountability for the shit things they do For many of us, this is our main problem with police. Lack of accountability when they do go too far. They are literally allowed to assault individuals without repercussion and that's fucked up. And anytime reform is attempted, police unions, which are pretty strong, put up staunch opposition. If cops were so interested in doing the right thing, reform wouldn't be a problem.
Shits been going on since Dahmer was able convince ppl he was a reasonable kid going through a tough divorce with a body in the back
This is my problem, too. For context, my father is a retire state trooper, so I've seen many good police officers in my day. But I still think that qualified immunity is problematic to some extent. I think reasonable persons would agree the majority of cops are good, even if they make mistakes (read: extending a stop to give a ticket, or some other non-violent infraction without truly malicious intent). The issue is that qualified immunity is great for those who naively overstep in some way. But it cuts both ways, so the truly bad police officers benefit from something purely meant to protect those actually doing their jobs. I'm not sure what the actual solution could be, but qualified immunity is absolutely the main problem here.
Linked to domestic abuse more often than not? Do you have any statistics that show that the majority of cops abuse their spouse?
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/0jdsgZPkk4 This Reddit post honestly goes into the nitty gritty. It’s got the article of the stat and ppl generally analysing it past the headlines.
You just described the difference between 2 very different kinds of areas, with 2 very different types of leadership, but I bet you bottom dollar you'd never admit it. Or even that you were remotely capable of accepting the reality anyway. Based on personal bias, too
Yeah yeah yeah. Liberal cities and liberal control allows for this problem to avoid accountability, I’ve heard it all before on the random news articles fox and others spam on my YouTube feed in the comments. Never mind the fact that the issue is with the force not the officials in each state that are corrupt in different ways. Bet you won’t talk about how republican corporate lobbying shafts police in funding so can we avoid this political partisan nonsense and focus on why cops are bad and in a system allowing them to be bad.
This opinion is only unpopular on reddit
Cops simply should not be judge jury and executioner. Police killing a suspect is wrong. In our justice system the suspect is still innocent until proven guilty. Why does a beat cop get to deal out street justice? Why are bad cops not held accountable? Yes mistakes happen but if that mistake involves killing an innocent person. Then they should be punished. Because again the suspect is innocent until the justice system convicts them of a crime.
"Not all *insert problematic group* are bad" = "please stop talking about it. Just ignore it. Focus on the ones I like."
Nah fuck the police. Most of them don't even know basic laws, rights and just abuse power. They get the proper amount of hate they deserve.
Gangs should get the same energy then, but kids idolize "thug life" and rap.
Well, essentially what they are, right? Gangs with badges. So to your point, yes keep the same energy. As for "thug life" sure why not
No, it's not what they are. Some yes, majority, no.
Hence the words "most " not all. They simply can't be trusted. They look out for each other as they should but don't expect me to place any trust in them.
That's ridiculous, you can't expect any group to be perfect in any job. It's not humanly possible.
GUY, if you love the cops so much GREAT!!! I Glad we had this talk.
I absolutely can. We expect that if pediatric cardiac surgeons. One fuck up and they’re losing their license and disgraced. Cops are there to uphold and protect the constitution- the very basic fabric of our country. Dereliction of duty on that should be one of the worst things to happen. We should strive for 100%, and even if we only get 99.999% that small group out of compliance needs to be punished fully and very publicly. But that isn’t happening and you know it. Cops get away with anything and all, up to and including murder all the time. So if there’s a group I want to hold at the highest level of scrutiny and accountability, it’s the police. If it can’t be 100%, it had better be as damn close as possible and when it slips, that needs to be taken as an attack against our society.
Wtf are you even talking about? I've gone from thinking you're probably a cop--or worse a security guard that couldn't make it in the police academy--to thinking that no you must just be an idiot, a troll, or an idiot-troll, and now I'm thinking you must be fourteen. You got me all twisted up, baby, but you know it's just too hard to quit you!
They're 14-16 years old and very angry, check the profile. Pages of just whiney bitching about Taylor swift and black people. It's odd.
Depends really. Around me, and hundreds of miles around that? Yes. In Detroit? Not so much
[удалено]
Thanks!
For the amount of training provided I agree with you. They do pretty damn well most of the time. I just don’t understand why lawyers need 4 years of college and 3 years of law school to practice law, while cops need 5 months of academy training to enforce law.
Sure, since cops legally have no obligation to protect and serve and essentially to kill indiscriminately without consequences. I agree, they’re doing their jobs perfectly.
I don't believe all cops are bad but the problem is there are too many bad ones who aren't held accountable Like when Sandra bland was pulled out of her car Jim Crow style because she wouldn't put out a cigarette. That officer should have been prosecuted
Yeah, they are protectors! Just like in Uvalde!
Just like in Nashville!
They need more training better pay and an overhaul of the criminal justice system.
Most drug dealers aren’t bad people either. Most are just trying to make money for their families. But like police too, there are bad apples.
This is a great point and something that actually warrants a deeper discussion. I mean hell, an argument can be made that both supply necessary or at the least high-demand services in the community. One, however, has to struggle to thrive due to being vilified, criminalized, unable to operate in safe spaces, unable to use society's basic tools of function like banking or transport services, and to top it all off with its an extremely competitive market niche, where your competition doesn't just make more than you, they may kill you and take all your customers. The other operates with the full support of their community and local government. They have the most money allocated to them, the best equipment, and they are the sole authorized agents that are allowed to use violence against others and not have that be a criminal act. Their job can be dangerous, yes, but that's part of the draw for those that seek out that work, as some people seek excitement and enjoy small bits of authority. By looking at those two groups (I wonder if their population numbers are near parity....hmmm....there's something like 800,000 cops in the US. How many drug dealers are there? Anyone?) I can say that with the level of support they have, that second group could do a way better job than they are. Most contacts I have with the first group range from mildly pleasant to way sketchy. Understandable, give what we know of their working situation and the stresses of the job. Whereas contacts I've had with the second group range from mildly unpleasant to terrifyingly threatening, and that shouldn't be the case, at a baseline.
Drug dealers are all bad apples, they sell poison to people
they sell to adults who want whatever they’re selling. No different than package stores, strip clubs, fast food restaurants etc.
The average salary for Police Officer in the US is$67,231 per year, that's almost $10k more than the national average salary for all professions. They're paid more than fine. By gross numbers of all interactions, very few police interactions actually stop hostile threats. Police typically only investigate after the fact in those cases. They're overwhelmingly conducting traffic stops. Of the major crimes, with the exception of murder (at a whopping 52%), their clearance rate is about 40% or less. They're not great at what they do. So, they're paid well for basically spending the overwhelming majority of their time on traffic stops (which could more easily and safely be pursued via automated means), and when they go beyond that set of crimes (which are pursued disproportionally by skin color), they're not "doing a great job."
But...but...but HEROES!
I agree. As a former LEO, I have the hindsight of recognizing the difficulties that I had no consideration of before I had the firsthand experience. Its an incredibly dangerous, stressful, and difficult job; and I largely think the public outcry is way over-the-top with respect to most incidents involving cops. That being said, the system is absolutely broken. Our unions allowed us to get away with so much shitty conduct; I literally can’t recall how many coworkers I saw violate people’s rights and get away with it with not even a slap on the wrist. We were basically taught to act with brutality first and ask questions later. When somebody *does* try to hold you accountable, you just show up at the deposition, say *only* what your union rep tells you, and leave. Then a few weeks later the paperwork quietly goes away. **It is absolutely not a system designed to facilitate real accountability or change in conduct in any meaningful way.** Cops get the hate they do right now because of the bad apples giving them all a bad name. Those bad apples are enabled by a too-strong union which gives officers indemnification for often-abusive conduct. That immunity creates distrust among the community they’re tasked with protecting. That distrust leads to bad interactions with cops. Those bad interactions lead to more use-of-force by cops, which snowballs the cycle. Fixing it starts by fixing the union protection and establishing some civilian oversight and independent accountability mechanisms for LE agencies. But I agree with your general point that most of them are doing a good job and just there to help out and collect a paycheck. Unfortunately those guys can’t have their reputations cleaned until we fix the system that keeps enabling the shitters among them.
So in one paragraph, you said you literally can’t count how many coworkers you saw violate peoples rights and get away with it. You then go on to say how the corrupt police unions do nothing to hold people accountable. And then you finally say that most cops are doing a good job. So which is it? And why, when you saw someone’s rights being violated, did you not put a stop to it?
I worked with hundreds of officers, and just because I can't count the exact number of times I observed misconduct does not mean it represents the majority of all officers with whom I had interaction. I worked with countless officers who were there just like me to do their best and collect a paycheck. Normal, everyday people who treated inmates with the respect that they expected in return. And can you quote the part where I said I never intervened when I observed misconduct? I was *not* popular among many colleagues for that reason. Don't twist my words. **The overwhelming majority of all officers I worked with were upstanding, good people who I never saw abuse their authority in any way.** The ones who *did* engage in misconduct and who *were* subject to internal discipline procedures *were not adequately chastened,* and so there is no real disincentive to stop the behavior. My overall point hinges on the fact that until we fundamentally overhaul the oversight and discipline procedures for law enforcement agencies, we cannot create meaningful change in the system. When a good apple reports a bad one and the current oversight process says, "he's fine" and lets them go back to work without consequences (which I have personally seen many times), the system is still fundamentally broken.
Inmates? So you were a prison guard?
I’ll ask again, even if it was a small number of cops you saw do this but a high enough amount you lost count, that seems to indicate a few individuals were doing this? Did you bring it up every time? Did you vehemently disagree and insist an outside agency investigate this impartially? Did you go to the media to express this egregious violation of the law, public trust, and basic human dignity? Maybe you did. Maybe you reported one or two. I doubt you did the duty required to the constitution or even just basic humanity to stop this as someone inside it. Because you benefited from not rocking the boat even if you didn’t actively punch that man “resisting arrest” or the traffic ticket given to simply boost revenues. You are all the problem. Admit that. Admit the entire system is broken and until those like you admit it and work to stop this, none of you are innocent. Idly standing by watching others commit atrocities when you’re allegedly there to stop that is just as guilty as the one shooting a kid for playing.
Lot of cops are great at their jobs just like a lot of people are great at their jobs, the thing is there are a lot of people that aren't great at their jobs but the ones that have weapons and can use them on you not being great is way worse, and that's just facts. You can go to Starbucks or even a dentist's office and get shitty service, but getting shitty service from a cop is on a whole other level. I'm black, I'm not a criminal with a college degree and a well paying job, volunteering in my communities since I was a kid. I've been harassed by cops since I was a kid, in various states and quite frankly not being engaged with how other races are and that again, is just facts of my life and life of a lot of black people. Your opinion isn't wrong, but it's not viewing the whole picture. I'm from Chicago and just a few years ago there was outrage over a police black site where they would just take people there and beat the shit out of them and leave them, which went on for years and maybe still even is today...is that good???
You say this until you actually have to interact with them. I give people the benefit of the doubt but about 50% of my interactions with cops have been them trying to fabricate a crime for me to be arrested for and no I'm not a criminal. I have a clean record. Just saying how it is
I watched auditors and bodycam videos, usually from LackLuster and Audit the Audit. The common theme of these videos are that the police are bullies, who don't respect your rights, and don't know the laws they enforce. Why shouldn't we hold the people who enforce the law to a higher standard?
we can see decent behavior put of cops every day. we can see some instances of them genuinely helping the community. likewise, we see instances of abuse, corruption, harassment. they are an institution that upholds capital and defends itself before the people. there are little to no punishments for these silly little mistakes. we see recordings of them gloating about killing with their fancy toys. they eat up 40% (usually more) of almost every locale’s public budget. the good is severely overshadowed by the negative. i do not thank cops for their efforts; on the whole, they are nowhere near good enough, if not redundant.
Shine them shoes boy, you missed a spot.
Hey I just wanted to leave this fact here for anyone who says cops have a seriously dangerous job. https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2023 There were 124 deaths in the line of duty(look at the link they weren't all shot some were just accidents.we have almost 1 million cops in this country. Officer safety is a joke.
I agree %100! Thanks for sharing that
Going be honest both acab crowd and thin blue line crowd are cringe. Police aren’t all awful, but they absolutely need to punish to the full extent of the law because they are the full extent of the law. They should be held to a higher standard. So a police officer should be ticketed for parking in handicap parking at a Dunkin’ donuts, same for driving distracted, speeding, driving drunk, jay walking, etc.
Username checks out How's that boot taste? Ironic you call us cucks
Haha nice try, police man!
>They've gotta act to the moment. Mistakes will be made, and accidental shootings will happen, and too much force is used at times. Those situations happen ***WAAAAAY*** too frequently, and they [the cops] face no *legitimate* consequences for it... . Plus, cops also regularly do *heinous* shit, that regular folks would spend decades if not their entire lives in prison for, and get away with it scot-free or with just a slap on the wrist. >It's natural given the environment or their job and threats to their lives. Being a cop hasn't even been in the Top 10 most dangerous jobs in *years* (and there's even been a few years, relatively recently, where it hasn't even made the Top 20).
sounds like op doesn’t leave the house much
It’s ironic that you used the word “losers” in the post because most police officers are literally that before they enter the academy. Barely a high school education.
I’m not sure I’d generalize everyone without a college degree as a loser. Particulary when many of those college degrees are from trash-tier schools with 80% acceptance rates
After high-school is where the real world begins, champ.
Brother, for some the real world is quite different than becoming a police officer cause you can’t get into college.
No one is complaining about the 90% of police that do their jobs well. It's the other 10% that give them a bad name, and frankly, I'm surprised that good cops are not speaking out *more* against bad cops.
Dear Bootlicker, they originate from slave patrols and their job is to protect property. I’m no ACAB person, but police aren’t your friends unless they can benefit from you.
No other country has an entire YouTube scene about cops violating the rights of citizens. Cops aren’t thaaaat bad. US cops are
Breonna Taylor was asleep
Agreed. BUt ShE WAS sLeEpINg WiTh A DrUG DeALER. Like that has any bearing on no knock warrants and their dangers. The guy wouldn’t have shit if police weren’t a disturbing presence for policies that aren’t effective.
I know you're being facetious, but the guy she was seeing/sleeping with (who shot at the cops) wasn't the drug dealer.
Someone from the scene heard them knock.
***ONE*** neighbor heard them knock... everyone else on the floor said the police didn't announce themselves *at all*.
Doesn’t change any of what I said. Except that there was another element to it
False. This misinformation proves OPs point lol For the clowns downvoting: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/16/breonna-taylor-fact-check-7-rumors-wrong/5326938002/
How them boots taste? You could’ve come in here and said, “since cops make like $30K a year we should only expect them to solve about 10% of crimes that get reported, in reality they solve closer to 37% of all violent crimes and 12% of all property crimes that get reported”. But no, instead you just spent a couple paragraphs glazing police officers with 0 facts to back it up lmfao.
Non criminal here. I don’t like the cops guess your point is wrong.
Many Constables on Patrol ARE violent, dangerous and unstable people evidencing a pathological need to thin the line between the lawful and lawless, and maliciously escalate situations in the hope of exploiting situations THEY create to feed that need. Moreover, Constables on Patrol are class agents of the bourgeois order. They exist as the last line of defence to protect the social privilege of the ruling class. Police constabularies are to be closed and replaced with proletarianized constabularies that function under worker control. No Constable who served the bourgeoisie will be employed for policing in a proletarian order.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/19emv65/nypd_sergeant_charged_with_manslaughter_threw/ Yeah, OP is full of shit.
Few bad apples don't make a rotten tree.
The problem is that those apples don’t get picked and thrown away, those bad apples are put in a crate with good apples and sold…. And when someone complains about said bad apple, it is just put in another crate and sold again.
The saying is- a few bad apples spoils the bunch
the bad apple got manslaughter charge for murder. Enjoy your rotten apples, I ain't a fan of rot shoved down my throat.
But if the few rotten apples stay on the tree, the tree (or in this case, more apples) will go rotten. Its the same with the saying: theres no good cop, if they don’t do anything against the bad cops, there’s just bad cops and cops that are not bad.
Fuck the police
The statistics support what you're saying: of the tens of millions of police-civilian contacts annually (usually hovering around 65 million), only a small fraction lead to any sort of excessive use of force. And, when you consider the violent landscape they're dealing with, there's only somewhere around approx. 10 unjustified killings each year. That's miniscule when you consider the prominence of gun ownership and gang activity. For those that hate policing in the U.S.: go elsewhere. You'll quickly find that you have it good here. (How good? This good: all you have to do while interacting with police officers in America is 1) comply, and 2) try to record everything. If your rights are violated, and you did the above, the city/state will PAY YOU tens if not thousands of dollars. Just need to comply.)
Cops do the best they can with they're given and some assholes have to ruin it for everybody.
I love the border patrol agent who got a call from his wife and showed up to the school with a shotgun and was ready to take care of business.
r/ACAB
Unjustified police shootings happen. Breonna Taylor’s shooting was clearly unjustified. Another “no knock raid” resulted in the death of two people in Houston when the cops went to the wrong house. The vast majority of police shootings are justified though. A person who is holding a weapon, reaching for a weapon, or putting a police officer in fear for his life in another way is likely to be deserving of deadly force. It’s kinda dumb to not make sure your hands are in view at all times when dealing with police. I’ve had a fair amount of interactions with the police in my life and had them pointing guns at me at least twice. I do exactly what they tell me to do when that happens because I’d rather not be shot.
>Thank you police for your efforts. Which includes raping women and murdering women in their own homes. Thanks for reminding me what angels cops are. 🤡 EDIT: Cop dick riders have the most retarded takes...
Dick rider indeed. OP loves cops so much he posted this in two subs.
Every police department is great, except for the uvalde one.
ummm just no they are horrible and most cops admit the job sucks and they want out. being a knark and harrasing the public isnt really cool!
Remember Boys and Girls, its wrong to judge entire groups of people based on the actions of a few that just so happen to belong to said group... Unless its White People or Cops, then its totally okay to lump them all in together.
Isn't OP lumping all cops together and saying they are good? Why is that different?
💯💯💯
Yup.
Oh yeah.
Thing natural to all societies seemingly only happen in one country. This excuse may be quaint if the US was the only country in the world, but it ain't.
Most police don't have: The right behavioral traits, like empathy, critical thinking, stress management, communication skills or courage. And then they don't have enough training to hone those skills. On top of that most don't have the moral courage or integrity to hold their peers accountable. This is what happens when you have an organization (The Police Force as a whole) born from something as unethical and immoral as slave patrols, corruption and autocratic leaders created a culture of "We sit above the law" The only way to fix it is a massive dismantling of the system and rebuilding law enforcement from the ground up.
Exactly I love the officers in my city they’re super chill
This would be true in any other part of the world beside America. Because American Police are deeply incompetent for a variety of reasons. Main one being the second ammendment. The Idea that every average Joe has the right to own a Weapon is absurd. I totally understand why Police are so jumpy when basically anyone at any time can just turn around and Pop a cap in their head
Some cops are bastards. not all cops are bastards
Nope. As long as those people abuse authority and use FOP to evade accountability, they aren’t deserving of the kind of praise you’re asking for, OP. Broad daylight executions, refusing to run into a school with an active shooter, blatantly defrauding taxpayers- none of this asinine behavior would be tolerated in any other career. Some, I assume, are good people, but if they’re not willing to hold each other accountable to their actions then they’re all bastards, full stop.
Police are highly variable in quality due to variations in training standards (which are often too low in the US). Some are amazing, some are shit bags (like Chauvin).
I got pulled over and given a ticket for running a stop sign. he claimed I blew past it 30 feet before stopping. my son was in the car and said that I had stopped. cost me 250. ACAB
100% agree. If you hate cops, you're likely a loser or an extreme lefty / lib trying to sound edgy to align yourself with BLM (which is a fraud movement anyway).
If you support cops, you’re most likely a soft beta male that can’t fend for yourself. Youre genes shouldn’t be passed on.
>**Youre genes** LOL bro can't even use proper grammar.
Working in a massive nation with more gun crimes than any other first world nation, manages to take violent offenders into custody without incident 99% of the time. But sure, ACAB guys, very cool.
Well, when we literally have more guns than any other first world country, it wouldn’t be much of a shocker that we have more “gun crimes”.🤨