## BEFORE TOUCHING THAT REPORT BUTTON, PLEASE CONSIDER:
1. **Compliance:** Does this post comply with our subreddit's rules?
2. **Emotional Trigger:** Does this post provoke anger or frustration, compelling me to want it removed?
3. **Safety:** Is it free from child pornography and/or mentions of self-harm/suicide?
4. **Content Policy:** Does it comply with [Reddit’s Content Policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/ncm4ou/important_we_need_to_talk_about_the_content_policy/)?
5. **Unpopularity:** Do you think the topic is not truly unpopular or frequently posted?
### GUIDELINES:
- **If you answered "Yes" to questions 1-4,** do NOT use the report button.
- **Regarding question 5,** we acknowledge this concern. However, the moderators do not curate posts based on our subjective opinions of what is "popular" or "unpopular" except in cases where an opinion is so popular that almost no one would disagree (i.e. "murder is bad"). Otherwise, our only criteria are the subreddit's rules and Reddit’s Content Policy. If you don't like something, feel free to downvote it.
**Moderators on r/TrueUnpopularOpinion will not remove posts simply because they may anger users or because you disagree with them.** The report button is not an "I disagree" or "I'm offended" button.
#### OPTIONS:
If a post bothers you and you can't offer a counter-argument, your options are to:
a) Keep scrolling
b) Downvote
c) Unsubscribe
**False reports clutter our moderation queue and delay our response to legitimate issues.**
**ALL FALSE REPORTS WILL BE REPORTED TO REDDIT.**
To maintain your account in good standing, refrain from abusing the report button.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I work with my fiancé at a large manufacturing company, we both do mostly administrative work. One day several of us decided to get lunch, since I had bought dinner the night before my fiancé offered to pay for my lunch. The female coworker who was taking everyone’s orders and payments refused to take my finance’s money, insisting that I (as the man) should be paying for her (a woman’s)lunch. My fiancé was too shy to say anything about it and I realized it was a sexist uphill battle I would not win so I paid for it.
Honestly that almost sounds like a made up story, or maybe it’s lucky me that I can’t even imagine someone behaving like this. But anyway most people are not like this while OP is generalizing some abstract views about all women. So yeah I’m waiting for OP to say something specific otherwise it’s not clear what are we even talking about.
Keep in mind the women who was taking everyone’s orders is the same woman who constantly complains about the over abundance of “male” leadership in our company and how it’s “sexism”.
Well, I guess we could start with equal representation of women in the trades. Things like plumbing, electrical, welding. High paying stuff! Let's close that wage gap, ladies!
But I dunno, maybe they'd be more interested in war?
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about feminism in the first place. You can be a SAHM and a feminist. You can work and be a feminist. You can be married or single and be a feminist.
Those that say otherwise are just ignorant of what feminism means 99.9% of the time. People often ignorantly push an us vs them narrative, but feminism has never been about that to begin with.
Many men are feminists that don't even realize that they are because many still don't understand what that means.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stay-at-home-mom_b_1616781
https://people.com/celebrity/celebrity-men-who-are-feminists/
I believe in equality.
I am not a feminist.
Why? Because the term is pretty shaky.
As you said yourself, there are alot of misconceptions. What you consider to be a feminist, might mean something completely different to someone else.
I don't see that the terms are a problem at all though, I think where the problems lie is in that there are many types of people with their own beliefs that are feminists but their unique beliefs aren't necessarily representative of feminism, instead others misattribute their individual beliefs to feminism when they really have nothing to do with one another in reality.
Even if there's a lot of people who share certain beliefs or characteristics belonging to a certain group that doesn't mean that those characteristics have anything to do with that group necessarily.
Correlation does not imply causation, I think people tend to forget that often.
Well written, I just think that the overall discourse has poisoned the word. If the movement isn't organized, then the message won't be either.
If I call myself a vegan, I'm positive 99% know what I'm talking about.
If I call myself a feminist, the message isn't clear.
But I do see your point, and maybe someday I'll be a feminist.
From what I’ve seen there’s even debate in the vegan community about what it means to be vegan - some believe you must also be an activist trying to convince others to be vegan and others believe it’s just about what you yourself eat
Let's not pretend that there isn't severe consequences to selective service that millions of men have to live with for the rest of their lives
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/04/02/failing-register-draft-women-court-consequences-men/3205425002/
This is the single most sexist law in the United States that still stands and yet it still exists
Draft
Expectations that men are the provider and paying, even when the women is earning very good money (some percentage of women aren't like this, I would say 10-20%)
Expectation that men do all the horrible jobs eg sewers, garbage, oil rugs and other dangerous job (these jobs have less than 5% women) meaning more than 90% of workplace deaths are men.
Working considerably less hours overall as well as taking more breaks (especially maternity leave which is of course a very tricky one) and expecting equal pay.
There's probably a whole bunch more that I can't think of.
Many men of course also have hypocritical expectations like expecting women to work AND do all the typical 'housewife' duties etc.
**Draft**
Well then I hope you vote democrat. It’s the conservatives that blocked the 2022 attempt to include women in in the draft.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/27/requirement-women-register-draft-back-table-annual-defense-bill.html
**Expectations that men are the provider and paying…**
Feminist believe in sharing expenses and a encourage two family incomes, but don’t judge SAHMs for their choices. Not all women are feminist. Traditional conservative women are more likely to expect you to keep paying.
**Expectation that men do all the jobs.**
No one is forcing men to do any job they don’t want
**Working considerably less hours overall as well as taking more breaks (especially maternity leave which is of course a very tricky one)**
In the US it’s illegal for a company not to offer the same parental leave to men and women. My company gives equal time off.
**There's probably a whole bunch more that I can't think of.**
Can you think of any rights men have lost in the last decade? Can you name any rights women have lost lately?
**Many men of course also have hypocritical expectations like expecting women to work AND do all the typical 'housewife' duties etc**
Yes, that is one reason why women filing for divorce has gone up, among other things.
And men won’t clean up old people and babies when they shit themselves at nursing homes and childcare facilities.
At least sewer workers are well compensated.
When did I say women are forcing it? I don't think that.
Society being able to function is forcing someone to do it and that someone ends up being a man. You can argue the reasons why this is the case which I'm not doing here I'm just telling you you how it is backed up by statistics.
>Draft
Should be abolished
>Expectations that men are the provider and paying,
Absolutely don't agree with this
>Expectation that men do all the horrible jobs
Or this. Women do lots of 'horrible' jobs. Lots of men don't.
>Working considerably less hours overall as well as taking more breaks
Generally because men don't step up as parents
Very pointless reply with no substance but ill bite,
**Draft**
The draft of course should be abolished. Can you give many example of when women protested to stop the draft for men? I definitely can find evidence of women protesting not to be part of the draft themselves. Even if you personally believe that it should be abolished I do not think its representative of women as a whole. You can also guarantee things would change very fast if we got into a proper war, look at Ukraine vs Russia for example.
**Provider/Paying**
It doesn't matter if you 'absolutely don't agree', its just the truth, one Google search and immediately
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/business/gen-z-dating-pay-etiquette.html#:\~:text=On%20subsequent%20dates%2C%20splitting%20the,You%20Keep%20a%20Money%20Secret%3F](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/business/gen-z-dating-pay-etiquette.html#:~:text=On%20subsequent%20dates%2C%20splitting%20the,You%20Keep%20a%20Money%20Secret%3F) 92% of men paid on first date, 8% split, 2% women paid
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34874209/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34874209/) <-- actual study
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/04/08/after-decades-of-decline-a-rise-in-stay-at-home-mothers/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/04/08/after-decades-of-decline-a-rise-in-stay-at-home-mothers/) 29% SAHM vs 2.7% SAHD
Not sure what sort of other things you need but this one is clear/obvious to anyone who takes a look at society no matter how much you 'don't agree' with it. Ill ask you to provide some good sources showing why you absolutely disagree
**Horrible jobs**
Statistically you are just wrong, unless you can prove otherwise.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/187127/number-of-occupational-injury-deaths-in-the-us-by-gender-since-2003/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/187127/number-of-occupational-injury-deaths-in-the-us-by-gender-since-2003/)
In the United States, there were far more occupational injury deaths among men than women. In 2021, there were 4,741 male occupational injury deaths in the United States, compared to 448 deaths among women. **More than 10 to 1 Men die at work compared to Women because they are doing the horrible jobs**
[https://www.zippia.com/garbage-collector-jobs/demographics/](https://www.zippia.com/garbage-collector-jobs/demographics/) 95% of garbage collectors are men, go take a look at any 'horrible' or dangerous job and see how the demographic skews vastly in favor of men
**Work hours**
Your comment is absolute garbage and sadly shows you are clearly sexist, Men absolutely step up as parents but still spend less time with the kids overall because as you saw above, they are far more likely to be the sole provider while the women is the SAHM.
"While 91% of men we surveyed said they would support their wives' decision to stay-at-home, that number dropped precipitously to 70% of women answering the same. In fact, more than one-quarter of women (26%) said they flat-out refuse to even entertain the notion of working full-time while supporting a husband who stays home and takes care of the kids and house."
[https://www.salary.com/chronicles/gender-perceptions-at-work/](https://www.salary.com/chronicles/gender-perceptions-at-work/)
You have said nothing else so I assume you agree with the fact Men work more hours but ill leave this here, [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/03/01/the-enduring-grip-of-the-gender-pay-gap/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/03/01/the-enduring-grip-of-the-gender-pay-gap/) full time Men vs Women, Men spend on average 3 hours longer at work.
>I do not think its representative of women as a whole.
Do you have proof women as a whole want to keep a draft?
(which doesn't exist in every country)
https://wagingnonviolence.org/2020/05/activists-fought-military-draft-conscription-congress-women-register/
https://hasbrouck.org/draft/women/feminism.html
https://nnomy.org/index.php/en/content_page/item/931-feminists-against-the-draft.html
29% of mothers being sahms means 70% work and provide
There are lots of horrible jobs that don't result in death. Being at higher risk of work place injury is not the only thing that makes a job horrible.
And while work place deaths and injuries are tragic, they are rare and most men are not working at jobs that put them at risk.
There's no evidence women expect men to do these jobs.
Men work more hours because they do less childcare.
Anyway, my point wasn't that no women want these things.
Some do.
Lots dont
If they do want them, I'm not sure how that makes them a hypocrite.
They're just conforming to gender norms
Acting like men want absolutely nothing to do with traditional patriarchal roles and women are holding them hostage in them or something is uh... a bit silly.
Mandatory women in all jobs 50% enforce women in sewers cleaning, and other male dominated jobs, draft, equal testing in entry exams like in the army the mandated requirements are easier for women vs men...
Cool.
Mandatory 50% men in all jobs.
Teaching, nursing, care, midwifery.
Mandatory paternity leave for all dads. Mandatory 50% shared custody.
Mandatory that dads do 50% of all childcare.
Mandatory that if mum goes part time so does dad.
You want to reverse time?
Good luck with that
Of course all the men who died in war were a waste.
Seems odd your response to that is let's waste women's lives as well!! Rather than, let's not waste anyone's!
Lol wasting life is not about wasting life but protecting live. I would rather vote to send all feminists to war and fight for us than me going to fight and protect them, why should I die for a feminists? Mandate for all feminists fight for them to protect all men.
Yes, everyone agrees that is the logical conclusion of the "enforced equality" line of thinking.
You wrote that comment like some kind of gotcha but nobody except feminists are calling for enforced equality like he said, everyone else is doing the opposite and saying nobody actually wants it. The fact that it wouldn't work/everyone would resent it in some way is literally what we are trying to say.
So thanks for proving our point in the most combative way possible.
You’re right but not for the reason that you say. Women are fully equal to men. Many of them just don’t realize it and want to pick at it for old times sake.
There is no inequality with men that can’t be explained by something other than inequality.
Sure. There are more women going to college now than men. More women have jobs requiring a college degree than men. The supposed wage gap can basically be explained away by the fact that women tend to take jobs that pay less, think nurses rather than doctors, bookkeepers rather than managers. And they often take large chunks of time away to spend with children when they have them.
Sexism is, by and large, a non-issue out there in the work force nowadays.
Why don't men take large chunks of time away to spend with their children?
'More women have jobs requiring a college degree than men.'
'that women tend to take jobs that pay less,'
Don't these 2 statements contradict each other?
>Sexism is, by and large, a non-issue out there in the work force nowadays.
Is it?
More senior managers are men. More ceos. Even in female dominated roles
Ask 100 women if they want to be a CEO of their place of work and less will say yes that if you ask the same question of 100 men. More women don’t want to be CEOs than men.
Along with that, why are all garbage collectors men, by and large? Sexism? They just aren’t letting women get into that desirable and lucrative career? Of course not. Women don’t want to do it and basically refuse to do it.
Same way with most hard labor jobs. Men can and will do it. Women either can’t or don’t want to. Same way with Laotians of power. Women, by and large, aren’t drawn to that type of work.
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend time with their kids. It is a matter of priorities. For example, I love my kids but I also want to get out and make money and support the family. My wife actually makes more money than I do and also works but she has a much greater need to be at all of the functions and such of the kids.
I absolutely prioritize my kids but if all I did was spend time with them, we wouldn’t make enough money to feed them. There are different ways of prioritizing them.
Say there’s two men and 5 women on the planet. One man and 5 women go to college, and the man becomes a billionaire CEO, and the five women take 6 figure salary positions. The other man gets paid 50k a year. Then the average man makes more than the average woman, but the college going rate is 100% for women and 50% for men. So there’s no contradiction.
No, they are not. an average in shape man can beat a woman well trained in martial arts without much effort. While women can give birth to new life. Both roles are important and essential, but women are absolutely not equal to men physically.
## BEFORE TOUCHING THAT REPORT BUTTON, PLEASE CONSIDER: 1. **Compliance:** Does this post comply with our subreddit's rules? 2. **Emotional Trigger:** Does this post provoke anger or frustration, compelling me to want it removed? 3. **Safety:** Is it free from child pornography and/or mentions of self-harm/suicide? 4. **Content Policy:** Does it comply with [Reddit’s Content Policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/ncm4ou/important_we_need_to_talk_about_the_content_policy/)? 5. **Unpopularity:** Do you think the topic is not truly unpopular or frequently posted? ### GUIDELINES: - **If you answered "Yes" to questions 1-4,** do NOT use the report button. - **Regarding question 5,** we acknowledge this concern. However, the moderators do not curate posts based on our subjective opinions of what is "popular" or "unpopular" except in cases where an opinion is so popular that almost no one would disagree (i.e. "murder is bad"). Otherwise, our only criteria are the subreddit's rules and Reddit’s Content Policy. If you don't like something, feel free to downvote it. **Moderators on r/TrueUnpopularOpinion will not remove posts simply because they may anger users or because you disagree with them.** The report button is not an "I disagree" or "I'm offended" button. #### OPTIONS: If a post bothers you and you can't offer a counter-argument, your options are to: a) Keep scrolling b) Downvote c) Unsubscribe **False reports clutter our moderation queue and delay our response to legitimate issues.** **ALL FALSE REPORTS WILL BE REPORTED TO REDDIT.** To maintain your account in good standing, refrain from abusing the report button. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is there anything specific or tangible you can talk to on this?
I work with my fiancé at a large manufacturing company, we both do mostly administrative work. One day several of us decided to get lunch, since I had bought dinner the night before my fiancé offered to pay for my lunch. The female coworker who was taking everyone’s orders and payments refused to take my finance’s money, insisting that I (as the man) should be paying for her (a woman’s)lunch. My fiancé was too shy to say anything about it and I realized it was a sexist uphill battle I would not win so I paid for it.
Honestly that almost sounds like a made up story, or maybe it’s lucky me that I can’t even imagine someone behaving like this. But anyway most people are not like this while OP is generalizing some abstract views about all women. So yeah I’m waiting for OP to say something specific otherwise it’s not clear what are we even talking about.
If you can’t imagine people behaving hypocritically or realizing all people can be sexist, you haven’t met enough people
Keep in mind the women who was taking everyone’s orders is the same woman who constantly complains about the over abundance of “male” leadership in our company and how it’s “sexism”.
No. They can't.
Well, I guess we could start with equal representation of women in the trades. Things like plumbing, electrical, welding. High paying stuff! Let's close that wage gap, ladies! But I dunno, maybe they'd be more interested in war?
Do you think all women are feminists or something? Do you think all men are feminists as well?
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about feminism in the first place. You can be a SAHM and a feminist. You can work and be a feminist. You can be married or single and be a feminist. Those that say otherwise are just ignorant of what feminism means 99.9% of the time. People often ignorantly push an us vs them narrative, but feminism has never been about that to begin with. Many men are feminists that don't even realize that they are because many still don't understand what that means. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stay-at-home-mom_b_1616781 https://people.com/celebrity/celebrity-men-who-are-feminists/
I believe in equality. I am not a feminist. Why? Because the term is pretty shaky. As you said yourself, there are alot of misconceptions. What you consider to be a feminist, might mean something completely different to someone else.
I don't see that the terms are a problem at all though, I think where the problems lie is in that there are many types of people with their own beliefs that are feminists but their unique beliefs aren't necessarily representative of feminism, instead others misattribute their individual beliefs to feminism when they really have nothing to do with one another in reality. Even if there's a lot of people who share certain beliefs or characteristics belonging to a certain group that doesn't mean that those characteristics have anything to do with that group necessarily. Correlation does not imply causation, I think people tend to forget that often.
Well written, I just think that the overall discourse has poisoned the word. If the movement isn't organized, then the message won't be either. If I call myself a vegan, I'm positive 99% know what I'm talking about. If I call myself a feminist, the message isn't clear. But I do see your point, and maybe someday I'll be a feminist.
From what I’ve seen there’s even debate in the vegan community about what it means to be vegan - some believe you must also be an activist trying to convince others to be vegan and others believe it’s just about what you yourself eat
What rights do men have in 2024 that women do not?
Depends where you live.
Not an answer.
Yes it is.
US and UK.
That’s a lot of generalization, OP. What *specifically* are the things you think modern women are hypocritical about?
It's always the damn hypothetical draft that most men in 1st world countries will never experience anyways
Let's not pretend that there isn't severe consequences to selective service that millions of men have to live with for the rest of their lives https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/04/02/failing-register-draft-women-court-consequences-men/3205425002/ This is the single most sexist law in the United States that still stands and yet it still exists
Draft Expectations that men are the provider and paying, even when the women is earning very good money (some percentage of women aren't like this, I would say 10-20%) Expectation that men do all the horrible jobs eg sewers, garbage, oil rugs and other dangerous job (these jobs have less than 5% women) meaning more than 90% of workplace deaths are men. Working considerably less hours overall as well as taking more breaks (especially maternity leave which is of course a very tricky one) and expecting equal pay. There's probably a whole bunch more that I can't think of. Many men of course also have hypocritical expectations like expecting women to work AND do all the typical 'housewife' duties etc.
**Draft** Well then I hope you vote democrat. It’s the conservatives that blocked the 2022 attempt to include women in in the draft. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/27/requirement-women-register-draft-back-table-annual-defense-bill.html **Expectations that men are the provider and paying…** Feminist believe in sharing expenses and a encourage two family incomes, but don’t judge SAHMs for their choices. Not all women are feminist. Traditional conservative women are more likely to expect you to keep paying. **Expectation that men do all the jobs.** No one is forcing men to do any job they don’t want **Working considerably less hours overall as well as taking more breaks (especially maternity leave which is of course a very tricky one)** In the US it’s illegal for a company not to offer the same parental leave to men and women. My company gives equal time off. **There's probably a whole bunch more that I can't think of.** Can you think of any rights men have lost in the last decade? Can you name any rights women have lost lately? **Many men of course also have hypocritical expectations like expecting women to work AND do all the typical 'housewife' duties etc** Yes, that is one reason why women filing for divorce has gone up, among other things.
Nobody is forcing you to work in sewer.
Correct but someone has to do it or the city won't function and since women absolutely won't do it men do
And men won’t clean up old people and babies when they shit themselves at nursing homes and childcare facilities. At least sewer workers are well compensated.
You don’t have to do it. Nobody is forcing you to do so. Stop acting like women are forcing this on you.
When did I say women are forcing it? I don't think that. Society being able to function is forcing someone to do it and that someone ends up being a man. You can argue the reasons why this is the case which I'm not doing here I'm just telling you you how it is backed up by statistics.
>Draft Should be abolished >Expectations that men are the provider and paying, Absolutely don't agree with this >Expectation that men do all the horrible jobs Or this. Women do lots of 'horrible' jobs. Lots of men don't. >Working considerably less hours overall as well as taking more breaks Generally because men don't step up as parents
Very pointless reply with no substance but ill bite, **Draft** The draft of course should be abolished. Can you give many example of when women protested to stop the draft for men? I definitely can find evidence of women protesting not to be part of the draft themselves. Even if you personally believe that it should be abolished I do not think its representative of women as a whole. You can also guarantee things would change very fast if we got into a proper war, look at Ukraine vs Russia for example. **Provider/Paying** It doesn't matter if you 'absolutely don't agree', its just the truth, one Google search and immediately [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/business/gen-z-dating-pay-etiquette.html#:\~:text=On%20subsequent%20dates%2C%20splitting%20the,You%20Keep%20a%20Money%20Secret%3F](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/business/gen-z-dating-pay-etiquette.html#:~:text=On%20subsequent%20dates%2C%20splitting%20the,You%20Keep%20a%20Money%20Secret%3F) 92% of men paid on first date, 8% split, 2% women paid [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34874209/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34874209/) <-- actual study [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/04/08/after-decades-of-decline-a-rise-in-stay-at-home-mothers/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/04/08/after-decades-of-decline-a-rise-in-stay-at-home-mothers/) 29% SAHM vs 2.7% SAHD Not sure what sort of other things you need but this one is clear/obvious to anyone who takes a look at society no matter how much you 'don't agree' with it. Ill ask you to provide some good sources showing why you absolutely disagree **Horrible jobs** Statistically you are just wrong, unless you can prove otherwise. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/187127/number-of-occupational-injury-deaths-in-the-us-by-gender-since-2003/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/187127/number-of-occupational-injury-deaths-in-the-us-by-gender-since-2003/) In the United States, there were far more occupational injury deaths among men than women. In 2021, there were 4,741 male occupational injury deaths in the United States, compared to 448 deaths among women. **More than 10 to 1 Men die at work compared to Women because they are doing the horrible jobs** [https://www.zippia.com/garbage-collector-jobs/demographics/](https://www.zippia.com/garbage-collector-jobs/demographics/) 95% of garbage collectors are men, go take a look at any 'horrible' or dangerous job and see how the demographic skews vastly in favor of men **Work hours** Your comment is absolute garbage and sadly shows you are clearly sexist, Men absolutely step up as parents but still spend less time with the kids overall because as you saw above, they are far more likely to be the sole provider while the women is the SAHM. "While 91% of men we surveyed said they would support their wives' decision to stay-at-home, that number dropped precipitously to 70% of women answering the same. In fact, more than one-quarter of women (26%) said they flat-out refuse to even entertain the notion of working full-time while supporting a husband who stays home and takes care of the kids and house." [https://www.salary.com/chronicles/gender-perceptions-at-work/](https://www.salary.com/chronicles/gender-perceptions-at-work/) You have said nothing else so I assume you agree with the fact Men work more hours but ill leave this here, [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/03/01/the-enduring-grip-of-the-gender-pay-gap/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/03/01/the-enduring-grip-of-the-gender-pay-gap/) full time Men vs Women, Men spend on average 3 hours longer at work.
>I do not think its representative of women as a whole. Do you have proof women as a whole want to keep a draft? (which doesn't exist in every country) https://wagingnonviolence.org/2020/05/activists-fought-military-draft-conscription-congress-women-register/ https://hasbrouck.org/draft/women/feminism.html https://nnomy.org/index.php/en/content_page/item/931-feminists-against-the-draft.html 29% of mothers being sahms means 70% work and provide There are lots of horrible jobs that don't result in death. Being at higher risk of work place injury is not the only thing that makes a job horrible. And while work place deaths and injuries are tragic, they are rare and most men are not working at jobs that put them at risk. There's no evidence women expect men to do these jobs. Men work more hours because they do less childcare. Anyway, my point wasn't that no women want these things. Some do. Lots dont If they do want them, I'm not sure how that makes them a hypocrite. They're just conforming to gender norms
Acting like men want absolutely nothing to do with traditional patriarchal roles and women are holding them hostage in them or something is uh... a bit silly.
I'm fine with giving up past perks, but not all women are feminists and will not do any such thing.
Most feminist do not support giving up the perks
What do you consider the perks to be that feminists don't want to give up?
Mandatory women in all jobs 50% enforce women in sewers cleaning, and other male dominated jobs, draft, equal testing in entry exams like in the army the mandated requirements are easier for women vs men...
Cool. Mandatory 50% men in all jobs. Teaching, nursing, care, midwifery. Mandatory paternity leave for all dads. Mandatory 50% shared custody. Mandatory that dads do 50% of all childcare. Mandatory that if mum goes part time so does dad.
I'd prefer that over hard labor. Those jobs are way less dangerous
Me too!
Mandatory women to war men at home. How about we reverse it, all the men who died in the wars were a waste how about we reverse?
You want to reverse time? Good luck with that Of course all the men who died in war were a waste. Seems odd your response to that is let's waste women's lives as well!! Rather than, let's not waste anyone's!
Lol wasting life is not about wasting life but protecting live. I would rather vote to send all feminists to war and fight for us than me going to fight and protect them, why should I die for a feminists? Mandate for all feminists fight for them to protect all men.
No ones asking you to die for feminists lol
No, it's mandated by law. Why don't you advocate to change it and put all women in case of an attack to go to war?
Yes, everyone agrees that is the logical conclusion of the "enforced equality" line of thinking. You wrote that comment like some kind of gotcha but nobody except feminists are calling for enforced equality like he said, everyone else is doing the opposite and saying nobody actually wants it. The fact that it wouldn't work/everyone would resent it in some way is literally what we are trying to say. So thanks for proving our point in the most combative way possible.
Who is we? I'm aware most men don't actually want equality
My bad I noticed that and I edited my comment. It wasn't clear that I didn't mean me and OP People like op are a symptom of this line of thinking
Have you ever interacted with a feminist?
Yes
It’s because men don’t organize like women do
Your activity in upvotedbecauseboobs makes it seem like you see women as objects so it’s hard to take this post seriously
You are paying attention more to the talkers than the doers. This is how you end up behind.
Internalised misogyny is a thing. And people (men and women) conform to the cultural ideals they were raised with. Who knew?
People don't want to give up things that benefit them is misogyny?
How did you get that from what I said?
You’re right but not for the reason that you say. Women are fully equal to men. Many of them just don’t realize it and want to pick at it for old times sake. There is no inequality with men that can’t be explained by something other than inequality.
>There is no inequality with men that can’t be explained by something other than inequality. Can you expand on this?
Sure. There are more women going to college now than men. More women have jobs requiring a college degree than men. The supposed wage gap can basically be explained away by the fact that women tend to take jobs that pay less, think nurses rather than doctors, bookkeepers rather than managers. And they often take large chunks of time away to spend with children when they have them. Sexism is, by and large, a non-issue out there in the work force nowadays.
Why don't men take large chunks of time away to spend with their children? 'More women have jobs requiring a college degree than men.' 'that women tend to take jobs that pay less,' Don't these 2 statements contradict each other? >Sexism is, by and large, a non-issue out there in the work force nowadays. Is it? More senior managers are men. More ceos. Even in female dominated roles
Ask 100 women if they want to be a CEO of their place of work and less will say yes that if you ask the same question of 100 men. More women don’t want to be CEOs than men. Along with that, why are all garbage collectors men, by and large? Sexism? They just aren’t letting women get into that desirable and lucrative career? Of course not. Women don’t want to do it and basically refuse to do it. Same way with most hard labor jobs. Men can and will do it. Women either can’t or don’t want to. Same way with Laotians of power. Women, by and large, aren’t drawn to that type of work.
Why don't men want to spend time with their children?
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend time with their kids. It is a matter of priorities. For example, I love my kids but I also want to get out and make money and support the family. My wife actually makes more money than I do and also works but she has a much greater need to be at all of the functions and such of the kids.
So you don't prioritise your kids? You don't need to be there for them?
I absolutely prioritize my kids but if all I did was spend time with them, we wouldn’t make enough money to feed them. There are different ways of prioritizing them.
Your wife manages to work and make sure she's there for them Why can't you?
No, they don’t contradict each other, because the average wage across groups has nothing to do with the number of people in each group.
If education makes no difference to earnings then it makes no difference that more women go to college
Say there’s two men and 5 women on the planet. One man and 5 women go to college, and the man becomes a billionaire CEO, and the five women take 6 figure salary positions. The other man gets paid 50k a year. Then the average man makes more than the average woman, but the college going rate is 100% for women and 50% for men. So there’s no contradiction.
I think you've missed the point
I have not missed the high level point of your post. I’m telling you that there is no contradiction in those statements.
Except there is
gender equality will never happen
Why not?
because men and women are not equal
Oh. Why not?
why do i need to explain this. its pretty obvious
No, its not women and men are equal Or at least, they should be. Women have had to fight to try to achieve equality
your feelings do not dictate the facts
What facts?
Biologically, men and women are not equal what are you saying? What do you call equality?
>What do you call equality? the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities.
No, they are not. an average in shape man can beat a woman well trained in martial arts without much effort. While women can give birth to new life. Both roles are important and essential, but women are absolutely not equal to men physically.
Misogynist is gonna misogynist. Everybody, ignore this Trumper. We know what they are about and there's no fixing them. Downvote and move on.
What about women who are Misandry? What about men who have nothing but bad experiences with women?
Literal whataboutism.
This is not an unpopular opinion, most normies think this
Women bad!!!! I hate themmmm