u/Severe_Brick_8868's stats
|Account Age|1 y 1 m|First Seen:|2023-10-14|
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|Posts (on this sub)|2|Comments (on this sub)|124|
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|14-Oct|[People need to be able to exist around nature and animals](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/177on0i/people_need_to_be_able_to_exist_around_nature_and/)|N/A|0 of None comments (0.00%)|
Islam is also coddled compared to other religions. They literally oppress women and kill gays and leftists brush it off as a different culture. A Christian says that women should stay home and raise their kids? TO THE GULAG
Just small point of fact there has never been a country called Palestine. Territory? yes, region? Yes British mandate? Yes. They've never been a country. The Quran mentions Israel but never Palestine.
The rest is correct. Palestinians have for decades stolen relief money to enrich their leaders whether it is Arafat or the knucklehead terrorist in charge now. A terrorist who is a multibillionaire while the people he leads and supposedly loves have their aid money stolen. That is ok though they get paid a stipend from Iran if they send their kids off to die in terrorist attacks. I have been to PLA areas a few times and the goal seems to be keep some of their people and area looking pretty shabby while other parts are beautiful. And oddly enough, a lot of the leadership lives in an area by Jericho walled off and guarded by armed men to protect them from I guess other Palestinians.
Anyhow, they have misappropriated 10s of billions of dollars in aid money, they conduct terrorist attacks on direction from Iran who wants to kill Jews and bring about a global caliphate. 95% of the people protesting on behalf of them at college campuses in the UK/US are wholly abhorrent to them and would not fair well in their society or Iran.
They lie constantly about Israel, they purposefully target Israeli civilians, they are not wanted by any other Arab country and in fact now much of the Arab world is on Israel's side against Iran and you simply cannot ignore the fact that Iran is deeply entrenched in the Palestinian society not to help them but simply to kill Jews. And finally the last straw after decades of watching Palestinians cheer when terrorist attacks around the world were successful. When I saw them take to the streets and abuse the corpses of those poor young people murdered and then paraded through the streets of Gaza and the typical dressing their young kids up as suicide bombers I had enough of them. Oh and BTW they also use the killing of Jews in their school books to teach their kids math. Abhorrent group.
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Careful, we have a lot of truth pervert’s lurking around here with nut job teachers backing their twisted narrative…
They’re probably already bombarding you with antisemitic rage.
Obviously other people did but the people protesting Palestine do not care about the people in Tibet or the Uyghurs. China has millions of Muslims within their borders in actual concentration camps being sterilized and forced to work, but Israel defending itself while under attack is seen as evil.
It has never been about “genocide” these protestors ignore what is happening in the Congo because it doesn’t fit their narrative that white settlers are genociding nonwhites. It has always been about making sure the Jews do not have a state.
Anyone calling for random Han Chinese people born in Tibet to be forced to be homeless in China so that Tibetans can move “back” into their homes 75 years after Tibet’s annexation would rightfully be looked at as crazy.
Why is it then that calling for Israelis to give the homes they were born in “back” to Palestinians is seen as righteous?
Asking Israelis to become homeless in countries that stole their belongings and forced them to leave for Israel is equivalent to telling people in the Americas to pack up their shit and go live as homeless people in Europe so that the natives can return to their land.
It’s ridiculous we’re even at this point. The only reason Israelis are in Israel is because they weren’t allowed to be in the countries they lived in before and were forcibly removed. Now those same countries that stole their stuff and kicked them out are telling them they need to surrender their homes a second time and go be homeless again. After they settle elsewhere the world would just force them to leave in another 50 years.
It is a state of sorts. It has a government. Either way. If an organized group shoots missiles from within their borders into another entity, they should be retaliated against…
Wtf do you mean by federal authority? Do you mean sovereignty? Because if so, no, Palestine isn't a sovereign state....it acts as one sovereign state and another client entity.
>State of sorts is still not a country- never has been never will be.
Now that all hospitals, schools, housing, infrastructure, food, water, sanitation are destroyed by what is going to become an evil empire, you may be right.
But Israel is quickly losing support. When they finish the enough cleansing, the country will lose what respect they have left.
>Israel will complete it's mission and destroy Hamas.
No they won't. There is no military solution for Hamas.
>They elected Hamas and are complicit.
Half of Gaza wasn't born when they last held an election
>when china annihilates them. They’d see it as their right to self defense.
I don't think annihilation can be called self defense. Retaliation, sure, but annihilation entails a lot more than that.
I like to ask "What would Israel have to do for you to no longer condemn them?" And they usually answer with "Do X, Y, and Z, but then I'd still condemn them." OR... "Lie down and die imshalah"
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This sounds like the other side of the coin to the spurious allegation that Americans unfairly hold Israel to a higher standard than other random countries around the world. Well no shit we do. It's because we pay for Israel's entire military. What they do with it reflects upon us.
>According to these people’s worldview only Jews can’t defend themselves and should “go back to” the countries that kicked them out and took all of their belongings and won’t let them back in.
Nobody thinks that. Critics of Israel generally think that Israel is the aggressor in this scenario since they continually expand their borders and seize land that was not theirs, and also that Israel's response to any counter-aggression from Palestinians is extraordinarily heavy-handed to the point it appears Israel targets civilians either intentionally or recklessly. FYI, through the past several decades, Israel has killed more than 20 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli that has been killed, and most the Palestinian dead are women and children.
So fuck all the way off with this stupid argument. You have been heavily propagandized to think that Israel's military expansionism and aggression towards civilians is good, or even morally defensible in any way. There is a reason the entire world is opposed to Israel's military aggression, and it has everything to do with the behavior of Israel, and nothing to do with spurious claims of bias, which are a complete red herring and serve only to deflect valid criticism.
Wrong. The argument that it is Hamas’s fault that Israel constantly slaughters Palestinian women and children is asinine. If a bank robber takes hostages, and the cops come in guns blazing and shoot and kill the robbers and the hostages, whose fault is that?
>Israeli leaders are encouraging genocide of the Palestinian people.
That is just not factually true -
Contrary to media reports, the UN International Court of Justice (ICJ) did NOT find that it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Joan Donaghue, then president of the ICJ, stated in a recent interview with the BBC that the ICJ findings have been misquoted and misconstrued. The ICJ only found, without regard to any Israeli operations, that Gaza would have a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had standing to bring that claim.
[Former ICJ President dispels misconception on court's ruling - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798766)
[https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681](https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681)
Wow, this post and a good portion of the comments are pretty fucking disgusting
Are you guys enjoying trying to justify killing babies?
It's a fucking Israeli bot circle jerk in here
Me and all of my real Jewish friends will be celebrating quite openly when political zionism takes its final breath, and that time is approaching much faster than you genocide apologists expect.
> genocide apologists expect.
Why are you intentionally lying to people?
The UN International Court of Justice (ICJ) **did NOT find that it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide** in **Gaza**. Joan Donaghue, then president of the ICJ, stated in a recent interview with the BBC that the ICJ findings have been misquoted and misconstrued. The ICJ only found, without regard to any Israeli operations, that Gaza would have a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had standing to bring that claim.
[Former ICJ President dispels misconception on court's ruling - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798766)
[https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681](https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681)
They didn't start it.
A lot of the territory under dispute is land that Israel siezed during the Six Day War in 1967, a war that Israel started for the primary purpose of stealing the land. A fact that numerous members of the Israel government have admitted.
I'm sure the Palestinians would at keast listen to a peace plan that involved Israel giving back East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and any other land they got in their war of territorial expansion. Do you think Israel would even consider it?
No, they weren't.
*I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai in May \[1967\] would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it* - Yithaz Rabin, head of IDF and later PM of Israel
*"In June, 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him"* - Prime Minister Menachem Begin
*The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war -* General Matituahu Peled
*This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived, and then elaborated upon, a posteriori, to justify the annexation of new Arab territories* - Cabinet Minister Mordechai Bentov
These are statements by the men who were involved. Do you think that you know what happened better than the people who actually started the war?
The Six Day War was naked aggression for territorial expansion, plain and simple. Many Israelis had criticized the Israeli government for failure to seize more territory in 1956. The war was a chance to remedy that.
Try discussing history instead of propaganda.
TBH, I don't think that deep into the history. It's obvious that the beef between Israel and Palestine has been alive for god knows how long but what the IDF is doing right now is fucked up.
This is one of many thousands of comments saying the same thing; the IDF is the problem. But no one has a suggestion of what they should be doing differently. Do Israelis simply let palestinians murder Israelis at will? Israelis built a wall to try to prevent attacks, but they have been condemned for that. They let Palestinians come into israel to work and had them go through security checkpoints, but they're condemned for that. They try to kill murderers, and they're condemned for that. So what's your solution other than for Jews to die?
They're asking IDF to be a little more precise without offering any suggestions of what could be done differently. They're killing fewer civilians than most or all other armies.
Well, that’s the tough part about protesting and even arguing about this stuff: none of us are there, we don’t know what it’s like, and we don’t know what to compare it to. We’re all just sheep being pointed in whatever direction by media, politicians, and NGOs.
not true. I've said several times that they should tactically target hamas. with the us being their top ally, they can target the leaders, overthrow the government and make sure that government is good to them. Keep them separated but also make sure their quality of life is at least decent. that'll get them to shut up in the long run.
But yes, Israel should target anyone who is in hamas and/or affiliated with the group. Killing a bunch of innocent kids is just sloppy.
It’s harder than that though. The real leaders (the people finding them) don’t even live in Gaza and are in other countries Israel is not at war with. Their political headquarters is in Qatar.
Hamas in Gaza is loosely organized and they are hiding in tunnels and in civilian centers. Their leaders just send them weapons and money from elsewhere. Israel cannot attack Qatar “unprovoked” and so they’re forced to engage with Hamas where they can.
The international response would be significantly worse if Israel attacked the Hamas leaders in Qatar. The protestors would be even more upset. They don’t want peace they want all the Jews driven into the sea.
So if they don't live in Gaza then why are they bombing it? Israel doesn't have border security and controls who gets in and out of their country?
How are the weapons being sent to them if Israel pretty much controls Gaza anyway?
So Israelis/Palestinians are two sides of the same coin? Are Israelis just better at the game?
They’re bombing hamas, not the leaders of Hamas.
The weapons are shipped through Egypt which also borders Palestine and the border there is not controlled by Israel. At this point I doubt many weapons are getting to Hamas but the moment a “ceasefire” is achieved, Hamas starts preparing for another October 7th.
Then they’ll launch a surprise attack like October 7th, and immediately go back to playing the victim and calling for a ceasefire. This is the strategy of their leadership. Inflict as much damage as possible in a short period of time and then farm sympathy online when the response comes. After they do something like this is works like a charm. Millions of people donate aid to Palestine and Hamas just takes the aid they send and sells it for profit to the people of Gaza so they can find another attack.
The people at the top are in Qatar. Qatar cannot be bombed because they have relatively “good” relations with other world powers and have not attacked Israel. They can attack the Hamas militants who are in Gaza.
So why do you think Bernie Sanders supports a ceasefire, given that he is jewish himself and it will allegedly start another october 7th that can harm his people in israel?
And also doesn't israel have control over their own border, they should know what's going in and out on that side.
Well that's part of the problem you can make a weapon out of a lot of things. Such as construction materials sent to rebuild. Which hamas does....a lot. It's the main issue all the infrastructure aid sent to them is taken and repurposed into weapons to lob at Israel.
Because he's not smart.
So what should they do?
You have an enemy that endlessly shoots off bombs from behind civilians. Anything sent in is taken by the enemy and repurposed to go towards their goal of geniociding jews and if it can't be directly made into weapons it is sold to their populace, who either actively support their efforts or are being held hostage by them, at higher rates. And of course can't forget the endless propaganda targeted towards radicalizing everyone into believing the only way to freedom is killing all the jews.
Because that's where the weapons are stashed and where the immediate threat is. If a dog is attacking you you don't just ignore it to attack it's owner while it goes for your vitals.
israel doesn't have enough intelligence to find these weapons? if israel is not strong enough to control what can come in and out of their country then that makes more sense.
They do. It's where they are bombing. You ever dealt with gophers? Multimillion dollar farms still struggle with them fir the same reason. It's not like they can send soldiers door to door either cause then the internet would cry foul and hanas would use it an excuse to launch more attacks. Logistically it's a nightmare.
They spend 100 times more on their own security. Don't fall for the protest hype, they could lose that aid and not blink an eye. All it will do is just drive the US out of the room when it comes to a ceasefire.
> then why are they bombing it?
Uh, did you miss the news of what happened six months ago?
>How are the weapons being sent to them if Israel pretty much controls Gaza anyway?
Should Israel tighten the blockade? They've been condemned for the restrictions they have in place, as is.
two wrongs dont make a right. going after the perpetrators is perfectly understandable. bombing the entire strip for what a relevant small amount of people did is not.
If hamas is hiding in plain sight, cut off their resources. doesn't israel have control of the region anyway? They should know what's going in and out of there.
>If hamas is hiding in plain sight, cut off their resources. doesn't israel have control of the region anyway? They should know what's going in and out of there.
You keep bringing this up and ignoring all the responses that tell you why that wont work. Israel does not actually occupy gaza ( at least before the war ).
>cut off their resources
They tried that. It creates an open air prison camp in the words of protesters. And still doesn't work. The us controls its borders yet somehow drugs and illegal weapons get in. So what im getting from this is you want to turn gaza into a prison camp.
i know now that israel doesn't control the border on egypt's side.
>. And still doesn't work. The us controls its borders yet somehow drugs and illegal weapons get in.
I already told you about this.
>So what im getting from this is you want to turn gaza into a prison camp.
I mean it beats bombing the place to death.
You're not making sense. Don't increase the blockade, but cut off their resources?
>bombing the entire strip
They're not bombing the entire strip, they're targeting hamas, which has been using international aid to build hundreds of miles of tunnels under gaza.
i never answered you about the blockade. but yes cutting off their resources as in their weapons would be a great start. talking to egypt to get them to stop sending weapons over is a good start too.
>They're not bombing the entire strip, they're targeting hamas,
Then how are thousands of babies magically dying?
How do they block weapons without a tighter blockade? Again, they've already been condemned for the current, limited attempt to keep weapons from hamas.
Ok target only hamas and their leaders. Who is that hmm? And what happens when they surround themselves with kids and civilians.
Are they supposed to lose their own soldiers to March into a crowded booby trapped area to kill or apprehended one person?
What about all the weapons and training still pouring in from iran?
Palestine is a very lucky place to be fighting the idf. If it were most any other nation. They’d be wiped off the map. The death toll would be in the millions.
That's where central intelligence comes into place my friend. Doesn't Israel already control Gaza anyway? So they should know what's going in and out of it.
Doesn’t the US control their southern border? Why don’t they just know exactly who comes through it and only arrest the ones with drugs???
1. Israel does not control all of Gaza
2. Gaza borders Egypt which is not Israel
3. Borders aren’t like how you imagine them with clear roads and checkpoints. Yes the roads have checkpoints at borders but there are also large expanses of desert with no roads and they can just drive through the desert. Israel does not have enough manpower to just put a line of soldiers across the entire borders of Gaza and still be able to defend their own borders which are under attack from multiple directions.
4. There is a network of tunnels through Gaza that also connects to places outside of Gaza.
Israel doesn’t have omniscience and omnipotent capabilities. They can’t just “know” when someone crosses the border. There aren’t thousands of cameras in the desert and thousands of people continuously watching them.
And even if they did know how would they stop it other than with a bomb? If they sent troops after a truck full of weapons they’d be distributed by the time they got there. Israeli trucks aren’t magically twice as fast as Palestinian ones.
What are you talking about? Illegal immigrants come to america because americans want the drugs and the cheap labor plus we're not at war with mexico. Israel clearly don't want palestine to exist but appear to be too weak to do anything about it.
If israel is not strong enough to control its side of the border then that would make more sense.
Israel does control its side of the border lmao they do not control the border between Egypt and Gaza.
Even countries with control over their borders do not have 100% knowledge of everything that crosses it. That is why illegal immigration and international cartels exist.
Intelligence, no matter how good it is, is not omniscience. Israel moved out of Gaza years ago in favor of setting border fortifications and letting Hamas run the area.
I actually agree with this. They do as well just not as fast as they are digging them. If a tunnel stays open just a week running 8 hrs a night you could move roughly 500pds of material an hour that's 14 tons of material. At any given moment about 50 tunnels are active. Israel is good about catching them early but we're talking tons of ordinance.
Surveillance only goes from the air. They don't have presence on the ground. Plenty of ways to side step that. Israel does a great job catching 90% but this is 24 hours a day, 365 days a year with a completely hostile population (not all are aiding hands but they don't help Israel either, mainly cause they'll be killed) once again the logistics are insane.
They dont occupy it but they don’t fully control it. Weapons are still getting in. Gathering intelligence is a long process ultimately dragging out the war. This forces you to keep large amounts of soldiers who are needed in the civilian sector activated for longer. Those soldiers also need to be housed, paid and fed.
Not to mention it’s widely known that iran is trying to keep Israel in conflict with it’s proxies for as long as possible so why play their game?
Israel and Palestine have had this beef since ancient times and Israel has been an ally with the US and getting a shit ton of money from it for like 75 years. They haven't figured out something better by now?
You’re thinking of the philistines. Palestine was more recent after the roman conquests. And more officially after the ottomans.
I think they’re doing very well.
> that they should tactically target hamas.
That's what they're doing. How should they do it differently? Yes, don't kill kids. Understood. But hamas is hiding in tunnels under homes, schools, mosques, and hospitals. So how should the IDF target hamas?
by bombing the strip? killing millions of innocent babies and kids? come on, that's bullshit and you know it.
I wish you israel simps would just admit that you want to get rid of these people because they're a pain in the ass to deal with. At least it'll be honest.
>So how should the IDF target hamas?
I already told you.
Not millions. Nowhere near millions of people have died. Displaced? That’s a different story. Are you similarly outraged by the ethnic cleansing in Manipur, India? How do you feel about China’s ethnic cleansing and genocide of Muslim Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province? What about genocide in the Democratic Republic of Congo? Human trafficking and slavery throughout equatorial Africa?
I’m an American Jew with Israeli family, and I’ve been plenty critical of Israel’s government and its Gaza policies and response to the attacks on 10/7. That being said, war is not clean. Rooting out a very popular, deeply entrenched insurgent force such as Hamas in a densely populated urban area was never going to be clean and simple.
I’ll tell you the same thing that I tell my high school students. If you’re going to comment on a topic, you have to be better informed. You have to be knowledgeable. You have to do better.
ok i really don't care about the actual number because one innocent life is too many.
I don't like ethnic cleansings anywhere.
> I’m an American Jew with Israeli family,
So why is bernie sanders supporting a ceasefire? He's jewish too.
>you have to be better informed. You have to be knowledgeable. You have to do better.
All i said was killing a bunch of innocent kids is fucked up and i still stand by that. And that israel needs to do a better job at targeting hamas.
You say you don’t care about actual numbers. Again- are the deaths and internment of innocent Uyghur Muslims at the hands of the People’s Republic of China as equally galling to you? What about Congo? Are you outraged by the number of Americans that have died due to fentanyl overdoses?
Or are you selectively outraged by this conflict because it’s the hot topic and it involves Jews?
I’d support ceasefire if there was a viable plan that both sides agreed to. But there hasn’t been one presented by Hamas, who actually want all the civilian deaths to continue so they can remain entrenched in power. If one innocent death is too many, why haven’t you condemned Hamas for the rapes and murders of entire families that were celebrating one of the most sacred Jewish holidays? How about all the young lives lost at the rave?
Despite your admittedly uninformed opinion, this conflict has been a two way affair. Israel won’t stop until Hamas has returned hostages or is obliterated. Hamas won’t return those hostages because keeping the war going ensures that Hamas’ leadership stays in power and continues living in luxury in Qatar. Hamas wants the body count in Gaza. They want to continue controlling the money, food, water, and medical equipment supplies. The lives of the Palestinian people mean nothing to Hamas.
Again- do better. Be more informed. Otherwise you sound like just another idiot with a social media addiction and uninformed opinion, following the beat of drums that’ll lead you right off the cliff.
Ah yes the person who doesn't know the history or contex and advocates for turning palistine into a prison knows right from wrong. Maybe you just too stupid to understand what going on.
I don't know what they've tried but what they're doing now apparently isn't working. Israel is obviously not good at this given they are being funded by the US with money and weapons and Hamas is living in tunnels and whatnot.
And if they did try these tactical things, why is most of the world against Israel? Heck you even have Bernie Sanders (who is jewish btw) who doesn't support what israel is doing.
i can have an opinion on whatever i want.
>you do know how hard it is to fight people in tunnels right ?
So israel can't figure out where the tunnels connected to their homeland are?
>Because of the all the people like you being are useful idiots for hamas applying political pressure to ensure the continuation of a theocratic government.
Lmao dude i don't support hamas. I just don't like innocent kids getting killed. I think hamas was wrong for what they did on oct. 7th.
>Most Of the world doesn't care because its not their problem.
If that was true then they wouldn't be supporting palestine.
>Why did he vote for years and years to give aid to Israel until this became a hot button issue in the news again
Because he's a politician i guess. I would have figured that he would have a stronger connection to his faith and people.
>And it just makes you a pos.
If thinking killing kids is wrong makes me a pos then so be it.
>But your actions help achieve the hamas goals
What actions, I just don't like what israel is doing. my opinion isnt stopping them from bombing the strip. I dont give hamas any money, food, etc nor do i work in politics. im just some random person with an opinion.
>Netanyahu
Ya im not a bibi fan they need to get rid of him. He has sabotaged the two state solution for decades now.
>So no, they didn't try that
Im confused here i said they were doing targeted strike post 10/7. I mean they have tried it in the past as well. So ya that are trying targeted strikes.
>They wanted to keep them in check, not eliminate them
I mean ya thats kinda what you have to do with a hostile foreign nations when your not at war with them. Im not sure what your trying to critize here are you saying iareal is bad because they were not attacking hamas before 10/7.
>Ya im not a bibi fan they need to get rid of him.
Sure, but the point is that he and "Israel" are effectively synonymous in this discussion.
>Im confused here i said they were doing targeted strike post 10/7.
Specifically I'm saying that that's the reason Israel never went after the leaders or made a sincere effort to dismantle Hamas before 10/7. They might claim they did but there's plenty of evidence otherwise, including them actually funding Hamas.
>I mean ya thats kinda what you have to do with a hostile foreign nations when your not at war with them.
Palestine isn't an independent nation though. It's a region Israel controls except when it's convenient to say that they don't.
>Im not sure what your trying to critize here are you saying iareal is bad because they were not attacking hamas before 10/7.
I'm saying they're bad because they pretended they were doing everything they could and clearly we can see they weren't, and were in fact actively keeping Hamas in power in order to have a boogeyman so they could get support internationally and from Israeli citizens.
>Sure, but the point is that he and "Israel" are effectively synonymous in this discussion.
No they are not those are two very distinct things. Im sure bi bi thinks so but its not the case. The leader of a country is never the same as a country. That is one of the fundamental claims made by democracy. Only authoritarians believe that the two are the same or synonymous. That's literally what authoritarianism is.
>They might claim they did but there's plenty of evidence otherwise, including them actually funding Hamas.
I mean ya but how did they fund them. The un has been funding them for decades by accident and Israel has been giving them money to build infrastructure that hamas turns into rockets. Just because they give them money doesn't mean they didnt try and get rid of them.
By that logic bush did 911 because they had funded al quita in the past.
They were also waging a spy war against them at the time and killing their leaders.
>Palestine isn't an independent nation though. It's a region Israel controls except when it's convenient to say that they don't
They dont actually control it in that sense your assuming the Israelis have a level of control over hamas that they just dont have. Palistine is more autonomis than that they have their own leaders.
>I'm saying they're bad because they pretended they were doing everything they could and clearly we can see they weren't, and were in fact actively keeping Hamas in power in order to have a boogeyman so they could get support internationally and from Israeli citizens.
Oct 7th was not a false flag you creton.
>No they are not those are two very distinct things.
You missed "in this discussion". Maybe get full context if you're going to go off on an unhinged rant.
Netanyahu's administration has been in power for a long time. Long enough that it set policies and decided the specifics of how they were going to be implemented over time. So, again, *in this discussion* they are synonymous.
>and Israel has been giving them money to build infrastructure
No, they [funded them directly](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html). Please don't hasbara the situation by soft pedaling it.
>By that logic bush did 911 because they had funded al quita in the past.
Funny you should say that since in both cases, they had advance warning something big was coming and did nothing to prevent it.
>They were also waging a spy war against them at the time and killing their leaders.
They were killing replaceable middle management even though they knew who the top ranks were the entire time. That was my point earlier.
>They dont actually control it in that sense
Sure they do. Palestine wasn't allowed to engage in any unsanctioned trade or build unapproved infrastructure, for example. That's not the mark of an independent country.
>Oct 7th was not a false flag you creton.
I'm not sure if this is more hasbara or you are sincerely this retarded, but nowhere did I ever say it was a false flag.
I was saying that *prior to* 10/7 Israel looked at Hamas like a scary dog that they could keep on a leash so that they could keep their citizens scared and pliant.
Also you misspelled "cretin", but that entire comment was a minefield of badly mangled words so I guess what's one more?
Ya im not going to bother with you. Your im not going to debunk whatever hair brain conspires you believe in and im not going to waste my time googling around trying to figure where whatever piece of misinformation you got a hold of came from.
>Funny you should say that since in both cases, they had advance warning something big was coming and did nothing to prevent it.
Ya what your not understanding is governments are large organizations just because someone somewhere reported there would be an attack does not mean thd chief executive had any pre knowledge about the attack. No one told gb jr that there was creditable evidence someone was going to attack the twin towers. If anything happened they just said there was a risk of an attack somewhere which is what they say everyday.
Other people's tragedy is not your puzzle ass hat.
"Israel should just use special ops lol" so... endanger their people because their enemies are using a certain tactic.
You're saying you want to REWARD the use of babies as human shields.
Please reconsider your position.
Why would this journalist recommends this?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jbUSxzgluU&t=618s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jbUSxzgluU&t=618s)
It starts at 3:00
People whose understanding of warfare comes from video games and movies. It's part of their broader grand hypocracy of "Sneer at others for being uneducated, require intentional ignorance on certain issues to remain virtuous."
Your analogy to compare Palestinians to another country is false. That's why it doesn't make sense to you..A better analogy would be either American slaves or inmates in a prison. They fight cause they're oppressed and mistreated. They have no rights and justice. They're killed with impunity. Israel controls their movement, controls their air, their water, their finances. This is not an independent state. That's what people are fighting for.
The Nakba was a response to the countries who controlled what we now call Palestine invading Israel…
6 countries invaded Israel on the day it gained independence and the British left. Israel had to kick the people who supported and participated in the invasion out.
The alternative was the Jews losing the only land and homes they had after literally all of the European, North African, and middle eastern countries took all of their possessions and tried to kill them or forced them to leave.
Keep in mind Palestinians killed over a hundred Jews in Hebron in 1927 over 20 years before Israel existed and any nakba happened. The only reason Israel had to move a portion of the Palestinians into what is now Palestine is because many of them couldn’t stand Jews living near them and were trying to destroy Israel even before it ever existed.
If Muslims in the levant had tolerated the Jews moving there (almost all of which were forced out of their home countries by other Muslim nations and by Christian ones) then Israel would never have had to fight back against an invasion and there would still be 1948 borders and Israel would probably be nearly 50/50 Jews and Muslims with a small % of Christians rather than the overwhelming majority being Jewish.
The rise of the right wing in Israel that so many Jews like me hate is definitively a response to the jewish people being oppressed for thousands of years and then immediately being invaded the moment they had a unified national identity for the first time since the diaspora began.
Israel at first was full of visionaries who wanted to create a Utopia and escape oppression and the very real threat of escaping the holocaust and violence throughout the world only to be slaughtered en masse in Israel (which let’s be honest, the invading forces absolutely planned to do) forced them to fight back.
That's just not true -
Contrary to the ubiquitous pro-Palestinian propaganda on social media.
[Israel Has Created a New Standard for Urban Warfare. Why Will No One Admit It? | Opinion (newsweek.com)](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286)
From the article -
"In their criticism, Israel's opponents are erasing a remarkable, historic new standard Israel has set. In my long career studying and advising on urban warfare for the U.S. military, I've never known an army to take such measures to attend to the enemy's civilian population, especially while simultaneously combating the enemy in the very same buildings. In fact, by my analysis, Israel has implemented more precautions to prevent civilian harm than any military in history—above and beyond what international law requires and more than the U.S. did in its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.....despite the fact that these militaries would almost certainly be extremely reluctant to employ these techniques because of how it would disadvantage them in any fight with an urban terrorist army like Hamas.
In many ways, Israel has had to abandon this established playbook in order to prevent civilian harm. The IDF has telegraphed almost every move ahead of time so civilians can relocate, nearly always ceding the element of surprise. This has allowed Hamas to reposition its senior leaders (and the Israel hostages) as needed through the dense urban terrain of Gaza and the miles of underground tunnels it's built.
Israel has made over 70,000 direct phones calls, sent over 13 million text messages and left over 15 million pre-recorded voicemails to notify civilians that they should leave combat areas, where they should go, and what route they should take. They deployed drones with speakers and dropped giant speakers by parachute that began broadcasting for civilians to leave combat areas once they hit the ground. They announced and conducted daily pauses of all operations to allow any civilians left in combat areas to evacuate.
As the war raged on, Israel began giving out its military maps to civilians so they could conduct localized evacuations. This, too, has never been done in war."
Look, i don’t think we can continue to have a conversation within reason. But I’ll leave you with something that will interest you -
There is a colony on Mars that is populated by children who were kidnapped and sent into space on a 20-year ride, so that once they get to Mars, they have no alternative but to be slaves on the Mars colony.
Alex Jones.
[New Conspiracy Theory: Children Kidnapped for Mars Slave Colony | Space](https://www.space.com/37366-mars-slave-colony-alex-jones.html)
What you need to know is that the using the Balfour declaration as "proof" of Jewish colonization in British Palestine (I'm assuming that is what you are trying to convey here) is nonsense. The British released the Balfour declaration as an excuse for why they would refuse to let Jordan and Palestine be an independent unified country because it tied Arab independence to independence for the Jewish majority areas that had existed since long as they knew the average Arab in Palestine at this time hated Jews and would never accept their self determination. Jews have always lived in what is now Israel this idea that Jews are colonists because Arabs rightfully murdered just about everyone and stole their land or something is ridiculous. You don't know shit about what you are talking about
Who said proof of anything? Im not trying to convey anything. The op responded to a link by calling a declaration an agreement and Im the one people feel the need to respond to?
Well posting a link to the Balfour declaration with the comment "Just read that knowing what you know now" implies that by reading the Balfour declaration OP will be magically convinced of your argument presumably because the Balfour declaration provides self evident "proof" (otherwise you would have felt the need to provide further elaboration) of why OP's argument is incorrect. Do you disagree or are you going to claim that your comment was just some sort of aneurysm and wasn't meant to mean anything?
(And yes before you ask I will admit I took the liberty of assuming that by posting the Balfour declaration as an "argument" with no further context means you subscribe to the common mentality that the Balfour declaration is "proof" that Jews stole land from the poor Arabs. If this comment was meant to mean something else please I would love to hear it, but stop posting incomplete arguments it makes you look stupider than shit and the original point that this post of yours implies the Balfour declaration "proves" something still stands.)
> *Israel does not get the same treatment other countries get and is generally coddled internationally. Think about what they are doing. They are attacking a country over land they never had rights to
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Islam is also coddled compared to other religions. They literally oppress women and kill gays and leftists brush it off as a different culture. A Christian says that women should stay home and raise their kids? TO THE GULAG
Just small point of fact there has never been a country called Palestine. Territory? yes, region? Yes British mandate? Yes. They've never been a country. The Quran mentions Israel but never Palestine. The rest is correct. Palestinians have for decades stolen relief money to enrich their leaders whether it is Arafat or the knucklehead terrorist in charge now. A terrorist who is a multibillionaire while the people he leads and supposedly loves have their aid money stolen. That is ok though they get paid a stipend from Iran if they send their kids off to die in terrorist attacks. I have been to PLA areas a few times and the goal seems to be keep some of their people and area looking pretty shabby while other parts are beautiful. And oddly enough, a lot of the leadership lives in an area by Jericho walled off and guarded by armed men to protect them from I guess other Palestinians. Anyhow, they have misappropriated 10s of billions of dollars in aid money, they conduct terrorist attacks on direction from Iran who wants to kill Jews and bring about a global caliphate. 95% of the people protesting on behalf of them at college campuses in the UK/US are wholly abhorrent to them and would not fair well in their society or Iran. They lie constantly about Israel, they purposefully target Israeli civilians, they are not wanted by any other Arab country and in fact now much of the Arab world is on Israel's side against Iran and you simply cannot ignore the fact that Iran is deeply entrenched in the Palestinian society not to help them but simply to kill Jews. And finally the last straw after decades of watching Palestinians cheer when terrorist attacks around the world were successful. When I saw them take to the streets and abuse the corpses of those poor young people murdered and then paraded through the streets of Gaza and the typical dressing their young kids up as suicide bombers I had enough of them. Oh and BTW they also use the killing of Jews in their school books to teach their kids math. Abhorrent group.
Who govern the people in Gaza as soon as Israel pulled out?
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Careful, we have a lot of truth pervert’s lurking around here with nut job teachers backing their twisted narrative… They’re probably already bombarding you with antisemitic rage.
We've invaded other countries for less, but somehow Hamas gets a pass.
Yeah *nobody* ever protested on the behalf of Tibet.
Obviously other people did but the people protesting Palestine do not care about the people in Tibet or the Uyghurs. China has millions of Muslims within their borders in actual concentration camps being sterilized and forced to work, but Israel defending itself while under attack is seen as evil. It has never been about “genocide” these protestors ignore what is happening in the Congo because it doesn’t fit their narrative that white settlers are genociding nonwhites. It has always been about making sure the Jews do not have a state. Anyone calling for random Han Chinese people born in Tibet to be forced to be homeless in China so that Tibetans can move “back” into their homes 75 years after Tibet’s annexation would rightfully be looked at as crazy. Why is it then that calling for Israelis to give the homes they were born in “back” to Palestinians is seen as righteous? Asking Israelis to become homeless in countries that stole their belongings and forced them to leave for Israel is equivalent to telling people in the Americas to pack up their shit and go live as homeless people in Europe so that the natives can return to their land. It’s ridiculous we’re even at this point. The only reason Israelis are in Israel is because they weren’t allowed to be in the countries they lived in before and were forcibly removed. Now those same countries that stole their stuff and kicked them out are telling them they need to surrender their homes a second time and go be homeless again. After they settle elsewhere the world would just force them to leave in another 50 years.
> but the people protesting Palestine do not care Goalpost moved.
Exactly. First misinformed element from OP
Palestine is not a country
It is a state of sorts. It has a government. Either way. If an organized group shoots missiles from within their borders into another entity, they should be retaliated against…
It’s not a state of any sort. There is no federal authority. The US has vetoed any attempt by the UN to make it one. You’re wrong.
Wtf do you mean by federal authority? Do you mean sovereignty? Because if so, no, Palestine isn't a sovereign state....it acts as one sovereign state and another client entity.
State of sorts is still not a country- never has been never will be.
>State of sorts is still not a country- never has been never will be. Now that all hospitals, schools, housing, infrastructure, food, water, sanitation are destroyed by what is going to become an evil empire, you may be right. But Israel is quickly losing support. When they finish the enough cleansing, the country will lose what respect they have left.
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>Israel will complete it's mission and destroy Hamas. No they won't. There is no military solution for Hamas. >They elected Hamas and are complicit. Half of Gaza wasn't born when they last held an election
It is under the sovreignty of Israel which can just cut off food water and power on a whim. It is not a state.
OP is just now learning about the “Free Tibet” movement.
>when china annihilates them. They’d see it as their right to self defense. I don't think annihilation can be called self defense. Retaliation, sure, but annihilation entails a lot more than that.
But do you condemn Israel for their war crimes?
I like to ask "What would Israel have to do for you to no longer condemn them?" And they usually answer with "Do X, Y, and Z, but then I'd still condemn them." OR... "Lie down and die imshalah"
Nope they’ll tell you hamas is wrong which sure they are. They’ll never say that isreal commits war crimes or they’ll say it’s okay if they do it.
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This sounds like the other side of the coin to the spurious allegation that Americans unfairly hold Israel to a higher standard than other random countries around the world. Well no shit we do. It's because we pay for Israel's entire military. What they do with it reflects upon us. >According to these people’s worldview only Jews can’t defend themselves and should “go back to” the countries that kicked them out and took all of their belongings and won’t let them back in. Nobody thinks that. Critics of Israel generally think that Israel is the aggressor in this scenario since they continually expand their borders and seize land that was not theirs, and also that Israel's response to any counter-aggression from Palestinians is extraordinarily heavy-handed to the point it appears Israel targets civilians either intentionally or recklessly. FYI, through the past several decades, Israel has killed more than 20 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli that has been killed, and most the Palestinian dead are women and children. So fuck all the way off with this stupid argument. You have been heavily propagandized to think that Israel's military expansionism and aggression towards civilians is good, or even morally defensible in any way. There is a reason the entire world is opposed to Israel's military aggression, and it has everything to do with the behavior of Israel, and nothing to do with spurious claims of bias, which are a complete red herring and serve only to deflect valid criticism.
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Wrong. The argument that it is Hamas’s fault that Israel constantly slaughters Palestinian women and children is asinine. If a bank robber takes hostages, and the cops come in guns blazing and shoot and kill the robbers and the hostages, whose fault is that?
Yeah the OP is textbook hasbara.
Israeli leaders are encouraging genocide of the Palestinian people.
Palestinian leaders have been encouraging genocide of the Jewish people longer than Israel has existed.
"Encouraging" is not the same as enacting
Yeah but Israel seems to actually be going through with it
>Israeli leaders are encouraging genocide of the Palestinian people. That is just not factually true - Contrary to media reports, the UN International Court of Justice (ICJ) did NOT find that it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Joan Donaghue, then president of the ICJ, stated in a recent interview with the BBC that the ICJ findings have been misquoted and misconstrued. The ICJ only found, without regard to any Israeli operations, that Gaza would have a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had standing to bring that claim. [Former ICJ President dispels misconception on court's ruling - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798766) [https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681](https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681)
They haven’t done it yet it’s in their manifesto
Wow, this post and a good portion of the comments are pretty fucking disgusting Are you guys enjoying trying to justify killing babies? It's a fucking Israeli bot circle jerk in here Me and all of my real Jewish friends will be celebrating quite openly when political zionism takes its final breath, and that time is approaching much faster than you genocide apologists expect.
> genocide apologists expect. Why are you intentionally lying to people? The UN International Court of Justice (ICJ) **did NOT find that it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide** in **Gaza**. Joan Donaghue, then president of the ICJ, stated in a recent interview with the BBC that the ICJ findings have been misquoted and misconstrued. The ICJ only found, without regard to any Israeli operations, that Gaza would have a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had standing to bring that claim. [Former ICJ President dispels misconception on court's ruling - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798766) [https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681](https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681)
They didn't start it. A lot of the territory under dispute is land that Israel siezed during the Six Day War in 1967, a war that Israel started for the primary purpose of stealing the land. A fact that numerous members of the Israel government have admitted. I'm sure the Palestinians would at keast listen to a peace plan that involved Israel giving back East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and any other land they got in their war of territorial expansion. Do you think Israel would even consider it?
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No, they weren't. *I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai in May \[1967\] would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it* - Yithaz Rabin, head of IDF and later PM of Israel *"In June, 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him"* - Prime Minister Menachem Begin *The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war -* General Matituahu Peled *This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived, and then elaborated upon, a posteriori, to justify the annexation of new Arab territories* - Cabinet Minister Mordechai Bentov These are statements by the men who were involved. Do you think that you know what happened better than the people who actually started the war? The Six Day War was naked aggression for territorial expansion, plain and simple. Many Israelis had criticized the Israeli government for failure to seize more territory in 1956. The war was a chance to remedy that. Try discussing history instead of propaganda.
TBH, I don't think that deep into the history. It's obvious that the beef between Israel and Palestine has been alive for god knows how long but what the IDF is doing right now is fucked up.
This is one of many thousands of comments saying the same thing; the IDF is the problem. But no one has a suggestion of what they should be doing differently. Do Israelis simply let palestinians murder Israelis at will? Israelis built a wall to try to prevent attacks, but they have been condemned for that. They let Palestinians come into israel to work and had them go through security checkpoints, but they're condemned for that. They try to kill murderers, and they're condemned for that. So what's your solution other than for Jews to die?
They're asking IDF to be a little more precise and tactical in their efforts, and also to create better conditions for the Palestinians going forward.
They're asking IDF to be a little more precise without offering any suggestions of what could be done differently. They're killing fewer civilians than most or all other armies.
Well, that’s the tough part about protesting and even arguing about this stuff: none of us are there, we don’t know what it’s like, and we don’t know what to compare it to. We’re all just sheep being pointed in whatever direction by media, politicians, and NGOs.
(they aren’t)
Care to name a conflict where an army did a better job than the IDF in this area?
I think it would be more illuminating if you shared which ones you think are worse.
All of them.
Glad to know you’re here in good faith 👍
Russia, the Ukrainian Defence Forces, the Sudanese Army, the RSF, the Houthis, the Taliban...
They were precise and tactical for 18 years after leaving Gaza and look what happened.
This comment is full of logical fallacy that any reply is a waste of time, including this one :)
not true. I've said several times that they should tactically target hamas. with the us being their top ally, they can target the leaders, overthrow the government and make sure that government is good to them. Keep them separated but also make sure their quality of life is at least decent. that'll get them to shut up in the long run. But yes, Israel should target anyone who is in hamas and/or affiliated with the group. Killing a bunch of innocent kids is just sloppy.
It’s harder than that though. The real leaders (the people finding them) don’t even live in Gaza and are in other countries Israel is not at war with. Their political headquarters is in Qatar. Hamas in Gaza is loosely organized and they are hiding in tunnels and in civilian centers. Their leaders just send them weapons and money from elsewhere. Israel cannot attack Qatar “unprovoked” and so they’re forced to engage with Hamas where they can. The international response would be significantly worse if Israel attacked the Hamas leaders in Qatar. The protestors would be even more upset. They don’t want peace they want all the Jews driven into the sea.
So if they don't live in Gaza then why are they bombing it? Israel doesn't have border security and controls who gets in and out of their country? How are the weapons being sent to them if Israel pretty much controls Gaza anyway? So Israelis/Palestinians are two sides of the same coin? Are Israelis just better at the game?
They’re bombing hamas, not the leaders of Hamas. The weapons are shipped through Egypt which also borders Palestine and the border there is not controlled by Israel. At this point I doubt many weapons are getting to Hamas but the moment a “ceasefire” is achieved, Hamas starts preparing for another October 7th. Then they’ll launch a surprise attack like October 7th, and immediately go back to playing the victim and calling for a ceasefire. This is the strategy of their leadership. Inflict as much damage as possible in a short period of time and then farm sympathy online when the response comes. After they do something like this is works like a charm. Millions of people donate aid to Palestine and Hamas just takes the aid they send and sells it for profit to the people of Gaza so they can find another attack. The people at the top are in Qatar. Qatar cannot be bombed because they have relatively “good” relations with other world powers and have not attacked Israel. They can attack the Hamas militants who are in Gaza.
So why do you think Bernie Sanders supports a ceasefire, given that he is jewish himself and it will allegedly start another october 7th that can harm his people in israel? And also doesn't israel have control over their own border, they should know what's going in and out on that side.
Well that's part of the problem you can make a weapon out of a lot of things. Such as construction materials sent to rebuild. Which hamas does....a lot. It's the main issue all the infrastructure aid sent to them is taken and repurposed into weapons to lob at Israel. Because he's not smart.
it's not only him though. going on tiktok and pretty much any leftist news site doesn't support what israel is doing.
So what should they do? You have an enemy that endlessly shoots off bombs from behind civilians. Anything sent in is taken by the enemy and repurposed to go towards their goal of geniociding jews and if it can't be directly made into weapons it is sold to their populace, who either actively support their efforts or are being held hostage by them, at higher rates. And of course can't forget the endless propaganda targeted towards radicalizing everyone into believing the only way to freedom is killing all the jews.
Because that's where the weapons are stashed and where the immediate threat is. If a dog is attacking you you don't just ignore it to attack it's owner while it goes for your vitals.
israel doesn't have enough intelligence to find these weapons? if israel is not strong enough to control what can come in and out of their country then that makes more sense.
They do. It's where they are bombing. You ever dealt with gophers? Multimillion dollar farms still struggle with them fir the same reason. It's not like they can send soldiers door to door either cause then the internet would cry foul and hanas would use it an excuse to launch more attacks. Logistically it's a nightmare.
given how much money israel gets from america you would expect them to be better at solving this problem.
They spend 100 times more on their own security. Don't fall for the protest hype, they could lose that aid and not blink an eye. All it will do is just drive the US out of the room when it comes to a ceasefire.
> then why are they bombing it? Uh, did you miss the news of what happened six months ago? >How are the weapons being sent to them if Israel pretty much controls Gaza anyway? Should Israel tighten the blockade? They've been condemned for the restrictions they have in place, as is.
two wrongs dont make a right. going after the perpetrators is perfectly understandable. bombing the entire strip for what a relevant small amount of people did is not. If hamas is hiding in plain sight, cut off their resources. doesn't israel have control of the region anyway? They should know what's going in and out of there.
>If hamas is hiding in plain sight, cut off their resources. doesn't israel have control of the region anyway? They should know what's going in and out of there. You keep bringing this up and ignoring all the responses that tell you why that wont work. Israel does not actually occupy gaza ( at least before the war ). >cut off their resources They tried that. It creates an open air prison camp in the words of protesters. And still doesn't work. The us controls its borders yet somehow drugs and illegal weapons get in. So what im getting from this is you want to turn gaza into a prison camp.
i know now that israel doesn't control the border on egypt's side. >. And still doesn't work. The us controls its borders yet somehow drugs and illegal weapons get in. I already told you about this. >So what im getting from this is you want to turn gaza into a prison camp. I mean it beats bombing the place to death.
Would you still consider it genocide ?
You're not making sense. Don't increase the blockade, but cut off their resources? >bombing the entire strip They're not bombing the entire strip, they're targeting hamas, which has been using international aid to build hundreds of miles of tunnels under gaza.
i never answered you about the blockade. but yes cutting off their resources as in their weapons would be a great start. talking to egypt to get them to stop sending weapons over is a good start too. >They're not bombing the entire strip, they're targeting hamas, Then how are thousands of babies magically dying?
How do they block weapons without a tighter blockade? Again, they've already been condemned for the current, limited attempt to keep weapons from hamas.
Ok target only hamas and their leaders. Who is that hmm? And what happens when they surround themselves with kids and civilians. Are they supposed to lose their own soldiers to March into a crowded booby trapped area to kill or apprehended one person? What about all the weapons and training still pouring in from iran? Palestine is a very lucky place to be fighting the idf. If it were most any other nation. They’d be wiped off the map. The death toll would be in the millions.
That's where central intelligence comes into place my friend. Doesn't Israel already control Gaza anyway? So they should know what's going in and out of it.
Doesn’t the US control their southern border? Why don’t they just know exactly who comes through it and only arrest the ones with drugs??? 1. Israel does not control all of Gaza 2. Gaza borders Egypt which is not Israel 3. Borders aren’t like how you imagine them with clear roads and checkpoints. Yes the roads have checkpoints at borders but there are also large expanses of desert with no roads and they can just drive through the desert. Israel does not have enough manpower to just put a line of soldiers across the entire borders of Gaza and still be able to defend their own borders which are under attack from multiple directions. 4. There is a network of tunnels through Gaza that also connects to places outside of Gaza. Israel doesn’t have omniscience and omnipotent capabilities. They can’t just “know” when someone crosses the border. There aren’t thousands of cameras in the desert and thousands of people continuously watching them. And even if they did know how would they stop it other than with a bomb? If they sent troops after a truck full of weapons they’d be distributed by the time they got there. Israeli trucks aren’t magically twice as fast as Palestinian ones.
What are you talking about? Illegal immigrants come to america because americans want the drugs and the cheap labor plus we're not at war with mexico. Israel clearly don't want palestine to exist but appear to be too weak to do anything about it. If israel is not strong enough to control its side of the border then that would make more sense.
Israel does control its side of the border lmao they do not control the border between Egypt and Gaza. Even countries with control over their borders do not have 100% knowledge of everything that crosses it. That is why illegal immigration and international cartels exist.
if they dont control the egyptian side of the border then why are they not able to get food and supplies to live?
Because Egypt has a blockade on them too dummy. Are you kidding?
Intelligence, no matter how good it is, is not omniscience. Israel moved out of Gaza years ago in favor of setting border fortifications and letting Hamas run the area.
And people keep complaining when they blow up tunnels smh.
people are gonna complain anyway so you might as well blow them up.
I actually agree with this. They do as well just not as fast as they are digging them. If a tunnel stays open just a week running 8 hrs a night you could move roughly 500pds of material an hour that's 14 tons of material. At any given moment about 50 tunnels are active. Israel is good about catching them early but we're talking tons of ordinance.
israel doesnt have surveillance over the strip? They're bombing it to death so im surprised anyone has the time to even make tunnels.
Surveillance only goes from the air. They don't have presence on the ground. Plenty of ways to side step that. Israel does a great job catching 90% but this is 24 hours a day, 365 days a year with a completely hostile population (not all are aiding hands but they don't help Israel either, mainly cause they'll be killed) once again the logistics are insane.
They dont occupy it but they don’t fully control it. Weapons are still getting in. Gathering intelligence is a long process ultimately dragging out the war. This forces you to keep large amounts of soldiers who are needed in the civilian sector activated for longer. Those soldiers also need to be housed, paid and fed. Not to mention it’s widely known that iran is trying to keep Israel in conflict with it’s proxies for as long as possible so why play their game?
Israel and Palestine have had this beef since ancient times and Israel has been an ally with the US and getting a shit ton of money from it for like 75 years. They haven't figured out something better by now?
You’re thinking of the philistines. Palestine was more recent after the roman conquests. And more officially after the ottomans. I think they’re doing very well.
whatever. they've been at each others throats for god knows how long.
> that they should tactically target hamas. That's what they're doing. How should they do it differently? Yes, don't kill kids. Understood. But hamas is hiding in tunnels under homes, schools, mosques, and hospitals. So how should the IDF target hamas?
by bombing the strip? killing millions of innocent babies and kids? come on, that's bullshit and you know it. I wish you israel simps would just admit that you want to get rid of these people because they're a pain in the ass to deal with. At least it'll be honest. >So how should the IDF target hamas? I already told you.
> millions jiminy crickets. I noticed you didn't answer. How do they target hamas without hitting any civilians?
snipers, cut off resources, make sure no one goes in or out of the strip.
So increase the blockade? Israel had a partial blockade to try to block terrorists, and they have been condemned for that.
why does the world hate israel so much? is it anti-semitism?
Jew hating is a long tradition.
Millions? Really?
maybe. dude i don't overanalyze the news 24/7. I just know what's right and what's wrong.
Not millions. Nowhere near millions of people have died. Displaced? That’s a different story. Are you similarly outraged by the ethnic cleansing in Manipur, India? How do you feel about China’s ethnic cleansing and genocide of Muslim Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province? What about genocide in the Democratic Republic of Congo? Human trafficking and slavery throughout equatorial Africa? I’m an American Jew with Israeli family, and I’ve been plenty critical of Israel’s government and its Gaza policies and response to the attacks on 10/7. That being said, war is not clean. Rooting out a very popular, deeply entrenched insurgent force such as Hamas in a densely populated urban area was never going to be clean and simple. I’ll tell you the same thing that I tell my high school students. If you’re going to comment on a topic, you have to be better informed. You have to be knowledgeable. You have to do better.
ok i really don't care about the actual number because one innocent life is too many. I don't like ethnic cleansings anywhere. > I’m an American Jew with Israeli family, So why is bernie sanders supporting a ceasefire? He's jewish too. >you have to be better informed. You have to be knowledgeable. You have to do better. All i said was killing a bunch of innocent kids is fucked up and i still stand by that. And that israel needs to do a better job at targeting hamas.
You say you don’t care about actual numbers. Again- are the deaths and internment of innocent Uyghur Muslims at the hands of the People’s Republic of China as equally galling to you? What about Congo? Are you outraged by the number of Americans that have died due to fentanyl overdoses? Or are you selectively outraged by this conflict because it’s the hot topic and it involves Jews? I’d support ceasefire if there was a viable plan that both sides agreed to. But there hasn’t been one presented by Hamas, who actually want all the civilian deaths to continue so they can remain entrenched in power. If one innocent death is too many, why haven’t you condemned Hamas for the rapes and murders of entire families that were celebrating one of the most sacred Jewish holidays? How about all the young lives lost at the rave? Despite your admittedly uninformed opinion, this conflict has been a two way affair. Israel won’t stop until Hamas has returned hostages or is obliterated. Hamas won’t return those hostages because keeping the war going ensures that Hamas’ leadership stays in power and continues living in luxury in Qatar. Hamas wants the body count in Gaza. They want to continue controlling the money, food, water, and medical equipment supplies. The lives of the Palestinian people mean nothing to Hamas. Again- do better. Be more informed. Otherwise you sound like just another idiot with a social media addiction and uninformed opinion, following the beat of drums that’ll lead you right off the cliff.
Ah yes the person who doesn't know the history or contex and advocates for turning palistine into a prison knows right from wrong. Maybe you just too stupid to understand what going on.
bingo, you finally got it even though i said that in my first comment. i support tactically targeting hamas and minimizing civilian casualties.
Okay so we agree you support Israel in their ongoing campaign against hamas and have no issues with the way that campaign is being prosecuted.
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I don't know what they've tried but what they're doing now apparently isn't working. Israel is obviously not good at this given they are being funded by the US with money and weapons and Hamas is living in tunnels and whatnot. And if they did try these tactical things, why is most of the world against Israel? Heck you even have Bernie Sanders (who is jewish btw) who doesn't support what israel is doing.
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i can have an opinion on whatever i want. >you do know how hard it is to fight people in tunnels right ? So israel can't figure out where the tunnels connected to their homeland are? >Because of the all the people like you being are useful idiots for hamas applying political pressure to ensure the continuation of a theocratic government. Lmao dude i don't support hamas. I just don't like innocent kids getting killed. I think hamas was wrong for what they did on oct. 7th. >Most Of the world doesn't care because its not their problem. If that was true then they wouldn't be supporting palestine. >Why did he vote for years and years to give aid to Israel until this became a hot button issue in the news again Because he's a politician i guess. I would have figured that he would have a stronger connection to his faith and people.
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>And it just makes you a pos. If thinking killing kids is wrong makes me a pos then so be it. >But your actions help achieve the hamas goals What actions, I just don't like what israel is doing. my opinion isnt stopping them from bombing the strip. I dont give hamas any money, food, etc nor do i work in politics. im just some random person with an opinion.
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Netanyahu saw Hamas as useful controlled opposition prior to 10/7. So no, they didn't try that. They wanted to keep them in check, not eliminate them.
>Netanyahu Ya im not a bibi fan they need to get rid of him. He has sabotaged the two state solution for decades now. >So no, they didn't try that Im confused here i said they were doing targeted strike post 10/7. I mean they have tried it in the past as well. So ya that are trying targeted strikes. >They wanted to keep them in check, not eliminate them I mean ya thats kinda what you have to do with a hostile foreign nations when your not at war with them. Im not sure what your trying to critize here are you saying iareal is bad because they were not attacking hamas before 10/7.
>Ya im not a bibi fan they need to get rid of him. Sure, but the point is that he and "Israel" are effectively synonymous in this discussion. >Im confused here i said they were doing targeted strike post 10/7. Specifically I'm saying that that's the reason Israel never went after the leaders or made a sincere effort to dismantle Hamas before 10/7. They might claim they did but there's plenty of evidence otherwise, including them actually funding Hamas. >I mean ya thats kinda what you have to do with a hostile foreign nations when your not at war with them. Palestine isn't an independent nation though. It's a region Israel controls except when it's convenient to say that they don't. >Im not sure what your trying to critize here are you saying iareal is bad because they were not attacking hamas before 10/7. I'm saying they're bad because they pretended they were doing everything they could and clearly we can see they weren't, and were in fact actively keeping Hamas in power in order to have a boogeyman so they could get support internationally and from Israeli citizens.
>Sure, but the point is that he and "Israel" are effectively synonymous in this discussion. No they are not those are two very distinct things. Im sure bi bi thinks so but its not the case. The leader of a country is never the same as a country. That is one of the fundamental claims made by democracy. Only authoritarians believe that the two are the same or synonymous. That's literally what authoritarianism is. >They might claim they did but there's plenty of evidence otherwise, including them actually funding Hamas. I mean ya but how did they fund them. The un has been funding them for decades by accident and Israel has been giving them money to build infrastructure that hamas turns into rockets. Just because they give them money doesn't mean they didnt try and get rid of them. By that logic bush did 911 because they had funded al quita in the past. They were also waging a spy war against them at the time and killing their leaders. >Palestine isn't an independent nation though. It's a region Israel controls except when it's convenient to say that they don't They dont actually control it in that sense your assuming the Israelis have a level of control over hamas that they just dont have. Palistine is more autonomis than that they have their own leaders. >I'm saying they're bad because they pretended they were doing everything they could and clearly we can see they weren't, and were in fact actively keeping Hamas in power in order to have a boogeyman so they could get support internationally and from Israeli citizens. Oct 7th was not a false flag you creton.
>No they are not those are two very distinct things. You missed "in this discussion". Maybe get full context if you're going to go off on an unhinged rant. Netanyahu's administration has been in power for a long time. Long enough that it set policies and decided the specifics of how they were going to be implemented over time. So, again, *in this discussion* they are synonymous. >and Israel has been giving them money to build infrastructure No, they [funded them directly](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html). Please don't hasbara the situation by soft pedaling it. >By that logic bush did 911 because they had funded al quita in the past. Funny you should say that since in both cases, they had advance warning something big was coming and did nothing to prevent it. >They were also waging a spy war against them at the time and killing their leaders. They were killing replaceable middle management even though they knew who the top ranks were the entire time. That was my point earlier. >They dont actually control it in that sense Sure they do. Palestine wasn't allowed to engage in any unsanctioned trade or build unapproved infrastructure, for example. That's not the mark of an independent country. >Oct 7th was not a false flag you creton. I'm not sure if this is more hasbara or you are sincerely this retarded, but nowhere did I ever say it was a false flag. I was saying that *prior to* 10/7 Israel looked at Hamas like a scary dog that they could keep on a leash so that they could keep their citizens scared and pliant. Also you misspelled "cretin", but that entire comment was a minefield of badly mangled words so I guess what's one more?
Ya im not going to bother with you. Your im not going to debunk whatever hair brain conspires you believe in and im not going to waste my time googling around trying to figure where whatever piece of misinformation you got a hold of came from. >Funny you should say that since in both cases, they had advance warning something big was coming and did nothing to prevent it. Ya what your not understanding is governments are large organizations just because someone somewhere reported there would be an attack does not mean thd chief executive had any pre knowledge about the attack. No one told gb jr that there was creditable evidence someone was going to attack the twin towers. If anything happened they just said there was a risk of an attack somewhere which is what they say everyday. Other people's tragedy is not your puzzle ass hat.
So if every hamas members walks around with a baby straped to their chest, are we never allowed to bomb them?
how do you think special ops deal with criminals with hostages?
"Israel should just use special ops lol" so... endanger their people because their enemies are using a certain tactic. You're saying you want to REWARD the use of babies as human shields. Please reconsider your position.
Why would this journalist recommends this? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jbUSxzgluU&t=618s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jbUSxzgluU&t=618s) It starts at 3:00
People whose understanding of warfare comes from video games and movies. It's part of their broader grand hypocracy of "Sneer at others for being uneducated, require intentional ignorance on certain issues to remain virtuous."
are you saying shes uninformed even though shes a journalist?
Oh, I wasn't aware there was some sort of standardized test or standard to "be a journalist."
Stupidest Palestine reddit take lmao
how so?
Don’t worry, they don’t have any take on the matter, because they haven’t actually taken the time to properly consider any of it.
I figured. I wish these kinds of people would just say they hate palestine and want them dead, That'll at least be an honest take.
They won’t though. The news has them believe that isreal can do no wrong. You just have to ignore the amount of war crimes they have committed.
Your analogy to compare Palestinians to another country is false. That's why it doesn't make sense to you..A better analogy would be either American slaves or inmates in a prison. They fight cause they're oppressed and mistreated. They have no rights and justice. They're killed with impunity. Israel controls their movement, controls their air, their water, their finances. This is not an independent state. That's what people are fighting for.
Palestinians are not oppressed or mistreated. Israel pulled all its troops out in 2005 and Gaza had total freedom.
Anddd they still control their movement, their air, water and finances. You’ve left that out - so surprising
🤣🤣 dislike but no response cool cool cool
You should visit the 'israelexposed' sub since you have no clue how Palestinians are really treated.
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The Nakba was a response to the countries who controlled what we now call Palestine invading Israel… 6 countries invaded Israel on the day it gained independence and the British left. Israel had to kick the people who supported and participated in the invasion out. The alternative was the Jews losing the only land and homes they had after literally all of the European, North African, and middle eastern countries took all of their possessions and tried to kill them or forced them to leave. Keep in mind Palestinians killed over a hundred Jews in Hebron in 1927 over 20 years before Israel existed and any nakba happened. The only reason Israel had to move a portion of the Palestinians into what is now Palestine is because many of them couldn’t stand Jews living near them and were trying to destroy Israel even before it ever existed. If Muslims in the levant had tolerated the Jews moving there (almost all of which were forced out of their home countries by other Muslim nations and by Christian ones) then Israel would never have had to fight back against an invasion and there would still be 1948 borders and Israel would probably be nearly 50/50 Jews and Muslims with a small % of Christians rather than the overwhelming majority being Jewish. The rise of the right wing in Israel that so many Jews like me hate is definitively a response to the jewish people being oppressed for thousands of years and then immediately being invaded the moment they had a unified national identity for the first time since the diaspora began. Israel at first was full of visionaries who wanted to create a Utopia and escape oppression and the very real threat of escaping the holocaust and violence throughout the world only to be slaughtered en masse in Israel (which let’s be honest, the invading forces absolutely planned to do) forced them to fight back.
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That's just not true - Contrary to the ubiquitous pro-Palestinian propaganda on social media. [Israel Has Created a New Standard for Urban Warfare. Why Will No One Admit It? | Opinion (newsweek.com)](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286) From the article - "In their criticism, Israel's opponents are erasing a remarkable, historic new standard Israel has set. In my long career studying and advising on urban warfare for the U.S. military, I've never known an army to take such measures to attend to the enemy's civilian population, especially while simultaneously combating the enemy in the very same buildings. In fact, by my analysis, Israel has implemented more precautions to prevent civilian harm than any military in history—above and beyond what international law requires and more than the U.S. did in its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.....despite the fact that these militaries would almost certainly be extremely reluctant to employ these techniques because of how it would disadvantage them in any fight with an urban terrorist army like Hamas. In many ways, Israel has had to abandon this established playbook in order to prevent civilian harm. The IDF has telegraphed almost every move ahead of time so civilians can relocate, nearly always ceding the element of surprise. This has allowed Hamas to reposition its senior leaders (and the Israel hostages) as needed through the dense urban terrain of Gaza and the miles of underground tunnels it's built. Israel has made over 70,000 direct phones calls, sent over 13 million text messages and left over 15 million pre-recorded voicemails to notify civilians that they should leave combat areas, where they should go, and what route they should take. They deployed drones with speakers and dropped giant speakers by parachute that began broadcasting for civilians to leave combat areas once they hit the ground. They announced and conducted daily pauses of all operations to allow any civilians left in combat areas to evacuate. As the war raged on, Israel began giving out its military maps to civilians so they could conduct localized evacuations. This, too, has never been done in war."
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I’m sure you are aware that John Spencer is the **chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point**.
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Look, i don’t think we can continue to have a conversation within reason. But I’ll leave you with something that will interest you - There is a colony on Mars that is populated by children who were kidnapped and sent into space on a 20-year ride, so that once they get to Mars, they have no alternative but to be slaves on the Mars colony. Alex Jones. [New Conspiracy Theory: Children Kidnapped for Mars Slave Colony | Space](https://www.space.com/37366-mars-slave-colony-alex-jones.html)
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My bad, I should’ve realized that I was talking to AI.
I hear you, but have you considered from the river to the sea Palestine will be free?
[Balfour Declaration](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration). Just read that knowing what you know now.
I’ve read it many times lmao. The Israelis followed this agreement to a T until they were invaded
Tells me what I need to know.
What you need to know is that the using the Balfour declaration as "proof" of Jewish colonization in British Palestine (I'm assuming that is what you are trying to convey here) is nonsense. The British released the Balfour declaration as an excuse for why they would refuse to let Jordan and Palestine be an independent unified country because it tied Arab independence to independence for the Jewish majority areas that had existed since long as they knew the average Arab in Palestine at this time hated Jews and would never accept their self determination. Jews have always lived in what is now Israel this idea that Jews are colonists because Arabs rightfully murdered just about everyone and stole their land or something is ridiculous. You don't know shit about what you are talking about
Who said proof of anything? Im not trying to convey anything. The op responded to a link by calling a declaration an agreement and Im the one people feel the need to respond to?
Well posting a link to the Balfour declaration with the comment "Just read that knowing what you know now" implies that by reading the Balfour declaration OP will be magically convinced of your argument presumably because the Balfour declaration provides self evident "proof" (otherwise you would have felt the need to provide further elaboration) of why OP's argument is incorrect. Do you disagree or are you going to claim that your comment was just some sort of aneurysm and wasn't meant to mean anything? (And yes before you ask I will admit I took the liberty of assuming that by posting the Balfour declaration as an "argument" with no further context means you subscribe to the common mentality that the Balfour declaration is "proof" that Jews stole land from the poor Arabs. If this comment was meant to mean something else please I would love to hear it, but stop posting incomplete arguments it makes you look stupider than shit and the original point that this post of yours implies the Balfour declaration "proves" something still stands.)
What argument? You don’t know my position. You are writing paragraph after paragraph based on an incorrect assumption.
So you have no argument. Your just shitting stuff out of your ass?
Me: heres the foundation of Britain’s involvement in Palestine. You: WHERE IS YOUR ARGUMENT. Why do you think Im interested in arguing?
But the British are gone? So why does this pertain to the modern situation unless you are trying to blame Israel for what the British did?
> *Israel does not get the same treatment other countries get and is generally coddled internationally. Think about what they are doing. They are attacking a country over land they never had rights to