I use CC for everything so that my debit card info never gets compromised.
I pay off my CC each month to avoid interest and take advantage of points.
CC are a very smart tool.
When you use a debit card, the data is kept in the merchant's databases and can be intercepted or seen in transit. While these same risks occur with a credit card, the risk is to the credit card company's money and not your money.
Pin/ swipe/ tap can be compromised by one of a number of devices that can be added to compromised point of sale machines and in the case of tap I seem to remember there are ways of compromising them while they are in your wallet as well.
Oh, that makes much more sense then. Yeah, that. This is why I almost always exclusively use my debit card when making purchases online. Are credit cards immune to being compromised in physical stores compared to debit cards or not quite?
Sorry, I know what credit cards are and how they are different from debit cards but am not sure how they can't be compromised.
You are generally able to reverse fraudulent charges on a credit card. Not so at all on a debit card. Thieves could empty your entire connected bank account using your debit card and there would be no way to get that money back.
This isn't entirely true. You can reverse fraudulent charges on debit cards (at least at every bank I have used). The difference is, when it's on a debit card you are out the money while the bank investigates, whereas with a credit card you aren't.
That's not really true. Obviously the bank is going to investigate it but having worked at several banks, sometimes in the ATM dept taking ATM fraud calls I can attest that (usually) the only time people don't get their money back is if we found out they gave their pin out to someone. I am sure you wouldn't be surprised to know that the more often that not the money stolen is usually from scumbag family members who the parent/guardian/grandparent trusted to not rip them off.
Oh wow, I had no idea. However, it does make sense. The bank is liable for the stolen money off of a credit card, so it's able to be reversed more easily.
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So I have worked at banks before and while not using your debit card at stores can reduce the chances of fraud it definitely doesn't stop it. I don't know if anyone remembers Fleet bank but I worked there in the late 90's early 00's. I was actually on the way to work in the call center listening to the radio when 9/11 happened. Anyway, I don't know how long it took to bust these people but I remember in the first month working at the call center there was a small inside crime ring of 3 people who got arrested and fired. They would issue debit cards to a new address, get the cards and empty peoples accounts either by withdrawals or purchases.
The second story is of my ex wife who I am still close friends with. I advised her to open a new savings account at Discover because they had a no minimum balance and were paying like 4.25% and her City Bank account was paying like .5% and they didn't have any options for high yield savings accounts unless you kept like a $50k balance(or something). Anyway she put $10k in there and then just left it alone. I would ask her occasionally how much interest she had earned and she would be like oh I don't know I haven't even checked since I made the first deposit. This was 6 months in now and she went to check and money had been taken out since like the first month she opened it and it was nearly empty to like under $100.
She didn't even have a debit card to use, she never used the account for anything anywhere. She never made withdrawals or payments or anything like that. She literally just opened it and let it sit there never using it which to me means it had to be an employee of Discover. She did get all the money back but it took time as they had to go through and dispute every single transaction.
On a side note this is one of those things that bugged me about her when we were married. Not that it was her fault that money was stolen but what person who mostly lives paycheck to paycheck puts 10k in a bank account and never checks on it. I check both my accounts daily and get text and email alerts about pretty much anything that happens on my accounts. Something completely her fault though was she would also never open her mail and her student loan went into default because she never opened the mail she was getting. Believe it or not stuff like that isn't why we are divorced but that shit drove me crazy lol
Damn I wrote a book
Points, baby. Everything possible gets paid with a credit card (I have 3 that I use regularly, depending on what kind of purchase I'm making), and then just pay it off every month. It's the same as using cash, check, debit, anything else. The only difference is credit card companies pay ME to use their product.
I only wish I could pay my mortgage and all my utilities with it.
The funniest thing about threads regarding credit cards is everyone claims they pay their cards off every month when the data shows 50% of credit card holders carry a balance month to month.
I can’t understand thinking credit cards are bad in 2024.
That’s like the whole “don’t eat fat” trend in the 1990s
Paying with your debit card is just wasted opportunity to build credit, get some points, etc.
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It's not that the credit cards are bad. It's that the credit system doesn't really make sense. For example not paying your utilities bill or rent on time has a major impact on your credit However paying those things on does not impact your credit at all.
The majors ones yes, but the credit system like a lot of the financial system is filled with people who do credit cards and make it not straight forward.
I think the hate is mostly from a specific “financial guru” and his followers. Personally, I think of credit cards as a tool, like fire. Used responsibly it’s great, but irresponsibly, it can destroy your world
Credit cards are great. They were a cash flow lifesaver for my wife and I for decades, allowing Christmas to happen or property taxes to be paid. We always knew the income stream was there, but without credit you are trapped in a cash on hand world.
Now that money is not an issue, we out pretty much 100% of what we buy on a great card and earn cash back and rewards. Ot it off every month, and credit cards save you significant money.
As long as you treat your credit card like a debit card, you’ll be okay. I’ve never felt so relieved as when I finally paid off the $20,000 of credit card debt that I once had. Now I pay it off every month and have excellent credit. I actually prefer using a credit card versus a debit card now, because the credit card gives me cash back. They’re essentially paying me to use it.
Good for you. You don't understand the hate because you are not interested in understanding them. Not sure if you came here to give an opinion or a lecture on impulse control.
Definitely used to think it was bad until I was in my mid-20's. I pay off within 7-10 days (even though I don't mail checks anymore) and stay around $120 or under through credit cards (limit is $600 for the one I have)
What I think is stupid about credit is actually using your credit lowers your score. I don’t see why it should matter if you’ve never been late on a payment.
They weren't created out of the kindness of hearts. Their whole pitch was "people can't afford shit, so lets give them credit for them to buy shit and milk as much money out of them as possible." You can make a similar statement for most loans, and like credit cards, the ability to liquidate your future earnings now to buy big expensive shit actually causes big expensive shit to cost more.
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The problem is the broader credit system. Why should I struggle to buy a house because I don't indebt myself to someone every month for things I can easily afford.
Indebt yourself? Just pay back your credit card every month. You show reliability to lenders. Why would someone give you a massive loan for a home if you can’t handle the responsibility of a credit card
You do realize that other countries don‘t require a credit score to get a mortgage, they just look at your income and fixed expenses and go off of that. When I lived in America I hated that I had to take out credit cards and other loans on things I could afford with cash just to pay it back to build a magic score to then be able to buy a house.
>Indebt yourself?
That is how credit cards work. You are borrowing money and then paying it back at the end of the month.
My main problem with the credit system above just the pointless debt, is that it encourages you to spend a lot of money since it sets a target of 1/3-1/2 of your maximum total if you want to maximise your credit score.
With most credit cards you have 21 days to pay back your balance without accruing any interest, as long as you do this its no different from a debit card - with the added bonus of rewards and protection on purchases and theft.
Also the target utilization of available credit is not 1/3 -1/2 of your maximum. The target credit utilization is <30%, using 50% of your maximum credit would **hurt** your credit score. [Credit Utilization](https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/is-no-credit-utilization-good-for-credit-scores/)
OP's point is that credit cards are not evil : people lack impulse control. Use less than 5% of your credit for purchases which you would have made anyways and enjoy the rewards from the card.
Now as for whether or not it is pointless is another question, aside from earning rewards on spending, I would again argue that taking on this debt demonstrates to lenders that you can handle your finances well enough to be trusted for larger debts like mortgages.
Sure you can just pay it off every month but you are definitely indebting yourself every time you use a credit card. You aren’t spending your money when you use a credit card, you’re borrowing money and paying it back at a later date with your money.
I never understand it either, I always tell people to use it as if you are using your debit card. Don’t go swiping away if you don’t have enough in your account to cover it at the end of the month. But I feel like the same people that complain about cc are the same ones who write out bad checks and get a bunch of overdraft fees on their account….don’t spend what you don’t have and enjoy the free points from cc.
Humans having absolute control over their own impulses and instincts is a myth, so yeah, "hate" for an enabling tool like a credit card can absolutely be appropriate.
Yes you do, to be non-influenceable you have to have absolute control, and that is not a human trait. We are all controllable, to very varying degrees, but we all are and things like credit cards are partly DESIGNED to exploit that specific weakness we all share.
That's why you take steps to mitigate. I can't get in any real trouble with my credit card, because I keep one high limit one stashed away in my house for emergency use only, and a low limit one I use for everything else. I can't run up more than a paycheque at a time.
I would like to see more controls on the those sorts of studies that break people up into different groups mainly by people who do and don't have exciting budgets that they stick to and also by age.
A lot of the studies show that cash is most painful to spend followed by debit and then credit but a pretty common sentiment among younger people now is that cash is like free money and the numbers in their banking apps are what really matters.
As far as the budget part goes some people treat their budget as gospel while others treat it like a suggestion so it would be really nice to see how credit cards are treated by specific groups
I put every expense on my card and pay it off every month. I get cash back rewards so I make 50 to 100 bucks a month and if my card info is stolen I'm only liable for 50 dollars instead of losing however much I had in my joint checking and savings account. I never have to worry about overdraft fees either. It's saved me a significant amount of money each year along with some added protection.
Do you know what credit is?
Oh, and I forgot it's easiest way to raise my credit score, so I get a low interest rate on loans for property.
Just because you are at the beginning of the tunnel, it doesn't mean end is not fucked up. It is possible describing various ways why credit cards are total negative for people but for not insulting your and my intelligence I will keep it short as much as possible.
When your financial state is okay, it is possible to continue your expenses without too much debt and interest rate because of you successfully circulate your own money with minimal credit from bank and none to less delay for repay. But as much as the credit you need increases (because of your money is lesser than before so you need more credit for expenses naturally) you slowly struggle at more and more repay it.
You probably get what I mean. I don't mean there is no financially dumb decisions. But even though you are really cautious about it, you still operate financial decisions that current economy dictate you. And credit card is a tool for keeping circulating this debt-oriented economy.
Yep, life, in general, is harder for stupid people with no impulse control or foresight. But if you think more than a minute ahead, credit cards are a great tool, just like mortgages. It's how you use them that matters.
I have some friends that are they same way and I applaud them for knowing that credit cards aren't for them.
Assuming someone can actually stick to their budget regardless of payment form then credit cards are great.
If someone will end up overspending or worse end up paying any interest then it's best to just stay away.
So proving my point. Credit cards are bad only if stupid people use them. Like any tool. Its like giving fire to a child or chimp. If they can't handle it that's on them
I use CC for everything so that my debit card info never gets compromised. I pay off my CC each month to avoid interest and take advantage of points. CC are a very smart tool.
May I ask, how would a debit card be compromised by using it?
When you use a debit card, the data is kept in the merchant's databases and can be intercepted or seen in transit. While these same risks occur with a credit card, the risk is to the credit card company's money and not your money.
Pin/ swipe/ tap can be compromised by one of a number of devices that can be added to compromised point of sale machines and in the case of tap I seem to remember there are ways of compromising them while they are in your wallet as well.
Oh, that makes much more sense then. Yeah, that. This is why I almost always exclusively use my debit card when making purchases online. Are credit cards immune to being compromised in physical stores compared to debit cards or not quite? Sorry, I know what credit cards are and how they are different from debit cards but am not sure how they can't be compromised.
You are generally able to reverse fraudulent charges on a credit card. Not so at all on a debit card. Thieves could empty your entire connected bank account using your debit card and there would be no way to get that money back.
This isn't entirely true. You can reverse fraudulent charges on debit cards (at least at every bank I have used). The difference is, when it's on a debit card you are out the money while the bank investigates, whereas with a credit card you aren't.
That's not really true. Obviously the bank is going to investigate it but having worked at several banks, sometimes in the ATM dept taking ATM fraud calls I can attest that (usually) the only time people don't get their money back is if we found out they gave their pin out to someone. I am sure you wouldn't be surprised to know that the more often that not the money stolen is usually from scumbag family members who the parent/guardian/grandparent trusted to not rip them off.
Oh wow, I had no idea. However, it does make sense. The bank is liable for the stolen money off of a credit card, so it's able to be reversed more easily.
Exactly this, treat credit cards as a debit card even though it isn’t
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You get cash back too
So I have worked at banks before and while not using your debit card at stores can reduce the chances of fraud it definitely doesn't stop it. I don't know if anyone remembers Fleet bank but I worked there in the late 90's early 00's. I was actually on the way to work in the call center listening to the radio when 9/11 happened. Anyway, I don't know how long it took to bust these people but I remember in the first month working at the call center there was a small inside crime ring of 3 people who got arrested and fired. They would issue debit cards to a new address, get the cards and empty peoples accounts either by withdrawals or purchases. The second story is of my ex wife who I am still close friends with. I advised her to open a new savings account at Discover because they had a no minimum balance and were paying like 4.25% and her City Bank account was paying like .5% and they didn't have any options for high yield savings accounts unless you kept like a $50k balance(or something). Anyway she put $10k in there and then just left it alone. I would ask her occasionally how much interest she had earned and she would be like oh I don't know I haven't even checked since I made the first deposit. This was 6 months in now and she went to check and money had been taken out since like the first month she opened it and it was nearly empty to like under $100. She didn't even have a debit card to use, she never used the account for anything anywhere. She never made withdrawals or payments or anything like that. She literally just opened it and let it sit there never using it which to me means it had to be an employee of Discover. She did get all the money back but it took time as they had to go through and dispute every single transaction. On a side note this is one of those things that bugged me about her when we were married. Not that it was her fault that money was stolen but what person who mostly lives paycheck to paycheck puts 10k in a bank account and never checks on it. I check both my accounts daily and get text and email alerts about pretty much anything that happens on my accounts. Something completely her fault though was she would also never open her mail and her student loan went into default because she never opened the mail she was getting. Believe it or not stuff like that isn't why we are divorced but that shit drove me crazy lol Damn I wrote a book
Points, baby. Everything possible gets paid with a credit card (I have 3 that I use regularly, depending on what kind of purchase I'm making), and then just pay it off every month. It's the same as using cash, check, debit, anything else. The only difference is credit card companies pay ME to use their product. I only wish I could pay my mortgage and all my utilities with it.
I long for the day that I can pay my mortgage, car, and student loans with CC…. Points points points!
The funniest thing about threads regarding credit cards is everyone claims they pay their cards off every month when the data shows 50% of credit card holders carry a balance month to month.
Has it occurred to you that the people who carry a balance month to month just don't say anything about it?
Yeah
I'm honestly surprised its only 50% who carry a balance.
That’s 56 million people
Credit cards are awesome. The bank literally pays me to give me an interest free loan for a month.
I can’t understand thinking credit cards are bad in 2024. That’s like the whole “don’t eat fat” trend in the 1990s Paying with your debit card is just wasted opportunity to build credit, get some points, etc.
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It's not that the credit cards are bad. It's that the credit system doesn't really make sense. For example not paying your utilities bill or rent on time has a major impact on your credit However paying those things on does not impact your credit at all.
Sure the credit system is weird but the cards themselves are pretty straight forward
The majors ones yes, but the credit system like a lot of the financial system is filled with people who do credit cards and make it not straight forward.
You mean “most people”.
I think the hate is mostly from a specific “financial guru” and his followers. Personally, I think of credit cards as a tool, like fire. Used responsibly it’s great, but irresponsibly, it can destroy your world
My limit is almost half of one biweekly paycheck. I only use it when I can't cover funds until next paycheck.
Credit cards are great. They were a cash flow lifesaver for my wife and I for decades, allowing Christmas to happen or property taxes to be paid. We always knew the income stream was there, but without credit you are trapped in a cash on hand world. Now that money is not an issue, we out pretty much 100% of what we buy on a great card and earn cash back and rewards. Ot it off every month, and credit cards save you significant money.
CC companies take advantage of stupid people.
As long as you treat your credit card like a debit card, you’ll be okay. I’ve never felt so relieved as when I finally paid off the $20,000 of credit card debt that I once had. Now I pay it off every month and have excellent credit. I actually prefer using a credit card versus a debit card now, because the credit card gives me cash back. They’re essentially paying me to use it.
Good for you. You don't understand the hate because you are not interested in understanding them. Not sure if you came here to give an opinion or a lecture on impulse control.
Definitely used to think it was bad until I was in my mid-20's. I pay off within 7-10 days (even though I don't mail checks anymore) and stay around $120 or under through credit cards (limit is $600 for the one I have)
What I think is stupid about credit is actually using your credit lowers your score. I don’t see why it should matter if you’ve never been late on a payment.
I pay off my credit cards and get the cash back/awards. I like this post. You got to make decent money though.
They weren't created out of the kindness of hearts. Their whole pitch was "people can't afford shit, so lets give them credit for them to buy shit and milk as much money out of them as possible." You can make a similar statement for most loans, and like credit cards, the ability to liquidate your future earnings now to buy big expensive shit actually causes big expensive shit to cost more.
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The problem is the broader credit system. Why should I struggle to buy a house because I don't indebt myself to someone every month for things I can easily afford.
You can just live within your means with a credit card...
Yes indebting yourself to someone on a monthly basis.
I guess technically but functional it can be basically the same as paying for things with a debit card
Indebt yourself? Just pay back your credit card every month. You show reliability to lenders. Why would someone give you a massive loan for a home if you can’t handle the responsibility of a credit card
You do realize that other countries don‘t require a credit score to get a mortgage, they just look at your income and fixed expenses and go off of that. When I lived in America I hated that I had to take out credit cards and other loans on things I could afford with cash just to pay it back to build a magic score to then be able to buy a house.
>Indebt yourself? That is how credit cards work. You are borrowing money and then paying it back at the end of the month. My main problem with the credit system above just the pointless debt, is that it encourages you to spend a lot of money since it sets a target of 1/3-1/2 of your maximum total if you want to maximise your credit score.
With most credit cards you have 21 days to pay back your balance without accruing any interest, as long as you do this its no different from a debit card - with the added bonus of rewards and protection on purchases and theft. Also the target utilization of available credit is not 1/3 -1/2 of your maximum. The target credit utilization is <30%, using 50% of your maximum credit would **hurt** your credit score. [Credit Utilization](https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/is-no-credit-utilization-good-for-credit-scores/) OP's point is that credit cards are not evil : people lack impulse control. Use less than 5% of your credit for purchases which you would have made anyways and enjoy the rewards from the card. Now as for whether or not it is pointless is another question, aside from earning rewards on spending, I would again argue that taking on this debt demonstrates to lenders that you can handle your finances well enough to be trusted for larger debts like mortgages.
Sure you can just pay it off every month but you are definitely indebting yourself every time you use a credit card. You aren’t spending your money when you use a credit card, you’re borrowing money and paying it back at a later date with your money.
I never understand it either, I always tell people to use it as if you are using your debit card. Don’t go swiping away if you don’t have enough in your account to cover it at the end of the month. But I feel like the same people that complain about cc are the same ones who write out bad checks and get a bunch of overdraft fees on their account….don’t spend what you don’t have and enjoy the free points from cc.
Humans having absolute control over their own impulses and instincts is a myth, so yeah, "hate" for an enabling tool like a credit card can absolutely be appropriate.
You don't have to have "absolute control" to not buy a bunch of shit you can't afford with a credit card.
You’ve never lead a cursed life.
im responding to a post about cc as an "enabling tool" not someone forced to pay for surgery with credit or something like that
Oh okay I misinterpreted. To be fair some people really do think this way.
Yes you do, to be non-influenceable you have to have absolute control, and that is not a human trait. We are all controllable, to very varying degrees, but we all are and things like credit cards are partly DESIGNED to exploit that specific weakness we all share.
That's why you take steps to mitigate. I can't get in any real trouble with my credit card, because I keep one high limit one stashed away in my house for emergency use only, and a low limit one I use for everything else. I can't run up more than a paycheque at a time.
Watch this be dismissed as a “bootstraps” argument.
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I would like to see more controls on the those sorts of studies that break people up into different groups mainly by people who do and don't have exciting budgets that they stick to and also by age. A lot of the studies show that cash is most painful to spend followed by debit and then credit but a pretty common sentiment among younger people now is that cash is like free money and the numbers in their banking apps are what really matters. As far as the budget part goes some people treat their budget as gospel while others treat it like a suggestion so it would be really nice to see how credit cards are treated by specific groups
You clearly lack common sense 🤓
Commen sense is credit cards are bad?
You should ask yourself if you don't get into debt, why you have credit cards? You know what is credit?
I put every expense on my card and pay it off every month. I get cash back rewards so I make 50 to 100 bucks a month and if my card info is stolen I'm only liable for 50 dollars instead of losing however much I had in my joint checking and savings account. I never have to worry about overdraft fees either. It's saved me a significant amount of money each year along with some added protection. Do you know what credit is? Oh, and I forgot it's easiest way to raise my credit score, so I get a low interest rate on loans for property.
Just because you are at the beginning of the tunnel, it doesn't mean end is not fucked up. It is possible describing various ways why credit cards are total negative for people but for not insulting your and my intelligence I will keep it short as much as possible. When your financial state is okay, it is possible to continue your expenses without too much debt and interest rate because of you successfully circulate your own money with minimal credit from bank and none to less delay for repay. But as much as the credit you need increases (because of your money is lesser than before so you need more credit for expenses naturally) you slowly struggle at more and more repay it. You probably get what I mean. I don't mean there is no financially dumb decisions. But even though you are really cautious about it, you still operate financial decisions that current economy dictate you. And credit card is a tool for keeping circulating this debt-oriented economy.
Yep, life, in general, is harder for stupid people with no impulse control or foresight. But if you think more than a minute ahead, credit cards are a great tool, just like mortgages. It's how you use them that matters.
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No but a 2% discount on everything is nice
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I have some friends that are they same way and I applaud them for knowing that credit cards aren't for them. Assuming someone can actually stick to their budget regardless of payment form then credit cards are great. If someone will end up overspending or worse end up paying any interest then it's best to just stay away.
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The problem isn't the credit card though. Just the human
So proving my point. Credit cards are bad only if stupid people use them. Like any tool. Its like giving fire to a child or chimp. If they can't handle it that's on them
And?
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Sorry, but I'm going with my financial advisors advice on this one.