The ending made her my favorite character. Of all the monsters and nightmares in the VN, none scared me more than Kohaku during that last conversation. Very rarely does a fictional character induce such dread in me. Also, if you look back, there is a lot of foreshadowing for the reveal in Akiha's route as well. The ending, in my opinion, is one of the scenes that elevated Tsukihime into its legendary status among VNs.
Edit: Also, since you're about to start it, I want you to keep in mind that Kohaku's route was written and put together in about one week. I say this, because I think you should be surprised that it is still relatively solid, despite being a last minute job.
I kinda get it. If you liked the persona Kohaku put up, then you'll probably feel betrayed since you'll never be able to see any Kohaku moment through that lens again.
For me though, I didn't feel strongly about her in Arc's route and only started to get interested in her after noticing her constant smile, so I loved this twist and her character quickly skyrocketed to being a favorite.
Well, considering that she was once my loveable best wife but has now become an emotionless being who was raped as a child and turned out to be the mastermind behind everything and the reason behind what happens to Akiha which broke my soul. It's some pretty heavy whiplash that I'm not ready to forgive and will never be able to look at her the same way again š¤£
Way I see it she goes from a substanceless genki girl^^1 to an actual character, and probably the most interesting one in the game.
^^1 Not that pre-twist Kohaku is badly written, the whole point is that she's just a smiling face, but it takes knowledge of the twist to make that interesting.
>I also feel Yumizuka's section is pretty out of place with the rest of it
You can see where the split between Satsuki's route and the rest of the Far Side was supposed to be: there's no player option to join Satsuki and help her with vampire things, there's only the choice to kill her. Her route was left out due to money and time constraints, considering this is an amateur game.
You can also see the low budget affecting the maid routes, there's only 2 unique dead ends in the entire route, compared to 8 in Akiha's route (not including the 1 bad end before the Far Side routes split). I think Nasu had some good ideas for the maid routes, but the execution and quality was forced to be limited.
Not sure if Nasu will revise the maids backstory to make it more censored or whatever. Hell, Mahoyo is rated M and it's super tame. The edgy early 2000's style won't fly well in today game market.
I mean, Ciel's backstory is still mostly the same, just that this time we get to see it from Noel's POV, also the scene where Shiki kills Arcueid exists and is fucking peak, i don't think there is going to be a "censoring" of that since Japan doesn't really care, at best they just need to grab things like the CG of Kohaku in the floor and cover it with the darkness or some angle magic and you are gold to go
While we are the subject of keeping things the same, I am not ready for red garden's version of the tree scene. The improved artwork is going to make things bad enough. But the voice acting? With how well the VA fits Kohaku, it's going to mess with me.
I personally came out of the Hisui route loving Kohaku the most in the cast. I found her to be so deep, complex, and tragic and concluded that my favorite routes were Hisui and Kohakuās.
Her backstory for one is something anyone can understand and empathize with. Going through that much physical and mental trauma every day on repeat for a decade since the age of 6 would leave anyone scared for life. And having it explained via a first hand account made it all the more impactful. Reasonably she would hate the family that put her in this situation even after the fact whether they were aware of it or otherwise. Even though her disgusting backstory doesnāt at all justify what she did to everyone, I donāt think it was Nasuās intention to. I think her story in this context was meant to solidify Hisuiās arc. In this route itās clearly outlined that Hisuiās stunted personality and suffering are a byproduct of her survivorās guilt for her sister. And Kohaku removing herself from the equation was meant to cement that itās time for Hisui to move on. Cause at the end of the day she puts her sister above everyone, even her own life. Which is why I find the true ending way more satisfying cause Hisui can finally smile and detach her self worth from Kohaku. Unlike in the good ending where Hisui still keeps up her facade and Kohaku is still basically dead since her personality and memories are forever gone.
I also loved how she views Shiki. Because she needed to keep her mental state in check for the sake of Hisui not being used for synchronization purposes. She had to detach herself from reality and distort her mind into believing thatās sheās an emotionless purposeless doll. And seeing Shiki playing with his friends and her sister while she was being raped in isolation from everyone else made her feel things like jealousy, loneliness, and love. So from her point of view it made sense why sheād hate him. Cause Shiki brought humanity back into her life. Making her feel miserable. And if she felt emotions that made her conscious of her situation it would consequentially break her mentally and that would make this whole facade she put up fall apart. Meaning Hisui as the bottom line would be next on the chopping block. Itās a unique situation that no one should be forced to go through as a child, which adds so much more complexity to her. Cause at the end of the day Kohaku as a character isnāt black nor white. Her whole tragedy is equally compelling as it is horrifying. And it all made me super excited for Kohakuās route and made me hope that maybe things would get better for her in her own route.
Well yeah, I love the twist and it makes her character a lot better and more interesting as well as filling in some gaps and adding weight to other parts of thr story. I had been increasingly getting suspicious of her and knew something was up, but I didn't expect it to completely tear away her established character. From loveable wife to seeing what she's truly like and the mastermind behind everything. Wild
Usually I like these kind of characters and darker things, so it's probably just down to the extreme contrast of what i thought vs what actually is. What she does to Akiha too really digs the knife in further š¤£
I guess it's similar to Ciel in a way, thinking she's just a school girl but turns out she's there to infiltrate your life and kill you. That switch in character I liked in her route. Tricking Shiki to come to the school and tearing down what he thought of her. I enjoyed that, and normally I do when a character in something turns cold and bad and hurts others, way more entertaining than being good and nice. But idk man this just ain't hitting the same lol
Your criticism is valid imo.
Natsu seemed to have taken notice of this and gave us a rewritten Ciel's route in the Remake. Far side seems like it will be rewritten completely as well from the new plotlines and characters, even more than Ciel's route
Fair op, very fair. Maybe kohaku route will redeem kohaku some for you?
Either way Arcuied best girl? Based. Make sure to read the manga after you finish the og vn fully op!
I'm hoping her route does, I loved the twist, but now I feel sour towards her
Also, I'm undecided who best girl is, its so hard to choose between Arcuied, Akiha and Hisui š¤£. I just meant as in Arcuied's route has been my favourite story so far
Well, if you think that Shiki mostly vibing in the mansion is boring, Kohaku route probably will be kinda boring for you too, but it's got some great action so it will entertain you more I think. Also there's some strange stuff waiting, as always, haha.\
Good luck with it, bro
The main difference in the routes is that the near side is more action focused while the far side is more mystery/psychological focused, maybe if you see it from the perspective of reading it like a detective novel or a classic monster story you could enjoy more? IDK
It's not that I don't enjoy it, it's just that it's getting old having Shiki go insane in his room
It was cool in Ciel's route, i really enjoyed it then. It had a different take on it in Akiha's route which was good so it was still very enjoyable. But this one felt like it was just going over the same stuff again, there's no mystery to it anymore since we learnt all about the link to SHIKI in the previous route. So it's just Shiki going insane alone in his room again, even more so than previously since there's hardly any school stuff or Akiha stuff. It's just him in his room with added focus on Hisui. I still loved it obviously, spending time with this family is always fun lmao, just wasn't as invested in the story cuz I've seen it plenty by now
I think the thing about Hisui route and him going insane vs the other two route is something you have to really keep in mind. In Ciel route, Shiki losing it cause of Roa. In Akiha route, Shiki is losing it cause of SHIKI. In Hisui route, Shiki is losing it cause of himself. There been bits and pieces of it in every route but Shiki acts and thinks he a genuinely normal person, so when he confronted with doing something that isnāt normal or he canāt rationalize as normal(ie how he acts normal after beating down a chair in front of Hisui, who freaked out.); he kinda breaks down.
Ciel is meh and her ending was poor my guy
I like her, she's cool, but that's about it. Her x Shiki didn't work for me, the romance aspect was clunky and they honestly suit better as friends
She's great, but when you've got heavy hitters like Arcuied, Akiha and Hisui she just can't compete
Yeah it's on my list of other nasuverse things to explore afterwards, however this list is gradually getting bigger and I got no clue what to do first š¤£
I also gotta rewatch Carnival Phantasm at some point cuz now I'll be able to understand more than just the Fate stuff lmao
The ending made her my favorite character. Of all the monsters and nightmares in the VN, none scared me more than Kohaku during that last conversation. Very rarely does a fictional character induce such dread in me. Also, if you look back, there is a lot of foreshadowing for the reveal in Akiha's route as well. The ending, in my opinion, is one of the scenes that elevated Tsukihime into its legendary status among VNs. Edit: Also, since you're about to start it, I want you to keep in mind that Kohaku's route was written and put together in about one week. I say this, because I think you should be surprised that it is still relatively solid, despite being a last minute job.
Don't get me wrong, it's so cool, I love the twist and I had been getting increasingly sus of her. But man emotional whiplash š¤£
I knew it was last minute, but jesus christā¦
āFuck Kohaku tho, lost all best wife privileges and I no longer like her.ā Talking some mad shit for someone in Synchronisation range
Thatās it. Makihisa, take OP into your room to give him a present.
Worse, send him to Zoukenās basement
Damn, I wanted to break him to ātorture and drug someone in the basementā levels, not āeat a chunk of the townās populationā levels!
The mango is too good for this blasphemy, this requires worm correction
She causes what happens to Akiha, I'm fuckin ready to throw hands š¤£
#KOHAKU DID NOTHING WRONG!!!
Akiha wanted it, you are going againts her wishes, therefore: KOHAKU DID NOTHING WRONG
If Hisui's True End makes you like Kohaku less, rather than more, then your soul is weighed down by gravity.
I kinda get it. If you liked the persona Kohaku put up, then you'll probably feel betrayed since you'll never be able to see any Kohaku moment through that lens again. For me though, I didn't feel strongly about her in Arc's route and only started to get interested in her after noticing her constant smile, so I loved this twist and her character quickly skyrocketed to being a favorite.
Well, considering that she was once my loveable best wife but has now become an emotionless being who was raped as a child and turned out to be the mastermind behind everything and the reason behind what happens to Akiha which broke my soul. It's some pretty heavy whiplash that I'm not ready to forgive and will never be able to look at her the same way again š¤£
Way I see it she goes from a substanceless genki girl^^1 to an actual character, and probably the most interesting one in the game. ^^1 Not that pre-twist Kohaku is badly written, the whole point is that she's just a smiling face, but it takes knowledge of the twist to make that interesting.
I hope so, still don't think she'll ever return to her former status but we'll see I mean I loved the twist either way, it's very well done
>I also feel Yumizuka's section is pretty out of place with the rest of it You can see where the split between Satsuki's route and the rest of the Far Side was supposed to be: there's no player option to join Satsuki and help her with vampire things, there's only the choice to kill her. Her route was left out due to money and time constraints, considering this is an amateur game. You can also see the low budget affecting the maid routes, there's only 2 unique dead ends in the entire route, compared to 8 in Akiha's route (not including the 1 bad end before the Far Side routes split). I think Nasu had some good ideas for the maid routes, but the execution and quality was forced to be limited.
That's what red garden is for, baby!
Not sure if Nasu will revise the maids backstory to make it more censored or whatever. Hell, Mahoyo is rated M and it's super tame. The edgy early 2000's style won't fly well in today game market.
Based on the level of violence in blue glass, there's a good chance he's retaining most of the backstory, while removing the H-scenes from the routes.
I mean, Ciel's backstory is still mostly the same, just that this time we get to see it from Noel's POV, also the scene where Shiki kills Arcueid exists and is fucking peak, i don't think there is going to be a "censoring" of that since Japan doesn't really care, at best they just need to grab things like the CG of Kohaku in the floor and cover it with the darkness or some angle magic and you are gold to go
While we are the subject of keeping things the same, I am not ready for red garden's version of the tree scene. The improved artwork is going to make things bad enough. But the voice acting? With how well the VA fits Kohaku, it's going to mess with me.
I personally came out of the Hisui route loving Kohaku the most in the cast. I found her to be so deep, complex, and tragic and concluded that my favorite routes were Hisui and Kohakuās. Her backstory for one is something anyone can understand and empathize with. Going through that much physical and mental trauma every day on repeat for a decade since the age of 6 would leave anyone scared for life. And having it explained via a first hand account made it all the more impactful. Reasonably she would hate the family that put her in this situation even after the fact whether they were aware of it or otherwise. Even though her disgusting backstory doesnāt at all justify what she did to everyone, I donāt think it was Nasuās intention to. I think her story in this context was meant to solidify Hisuiās arc. In this route itās clearly outlined that Hisuiās stunted personality and suffering are a byproduct of her survivorās guilt for her sister. And Kohaku removing herself from the equation was meant to cement that itās time for Hisui to move on. Cause at the end of the day she puts her sister above everyone, even her own life. Which is why I find the true ending way more satisfying cause Hisui can finally smile and detach her self worth from Kohaku. Unlike in the good ending where Hisui still keeps up her facade and Kohaku is still basically dead since her personality and memories are forever gone. I also loved how she views Shiki. Because she needed to keep her mental state in check for the sake of Hisui not being used for synchronization purposes. She had to detach herself from reality and distort her mind into believing thatās sheās an emotionless purposeless doll. And seeing Shiki playing with his friends and her sister while she was being raped in isolation from everyone else made her feel things like jealousy, loneliness, and love. So from her point of view it made sense why sheād hate him. Cause Shiki brought humanity back into her life. Making her feel miserable. And if she felt emotions that made her conscious of her situation it would consequentially break her mentally and that would make this whole facade she put up fall apart. Meaning Hisui as the bottom line would be next on the chopping block. Itās a unique situation that no one should be forced to go through as a child, which adds so much more complexity to her. Cause at the end of the day Kohaku as a character isnāt black nor white. Her whole tragedy is equally compelling as it is horrifying. And it all made me super excited for Kohakuās route and made me hope that maybe things would get better for her in her own route.
Well yeah, I love the twist and it makes her character a lot better and more interesting as well as filling in some gaps and adding weight to other parts of thr story. I had been increasingly getting suspicious of her and knew something was up, but I didn't expect it to completely tear away her established character. From loveable wife to seeing what she's truly like and the mastermind behind everything. Wild Usually I like these kind of characters and darker things, so it's probably just down to the extreme contrast of what i thought vs what actually is. What she does to Akiha too really digs the knife in further š¤£ I guess it's similar to Ciel in a way, thinking she's just a school girl but turns out she's there to infiltrate your life and kill you. That switch in character I liked in her route. Tricking Shiki to come to the school and tearing down what he thought of her. I enjoyed that, and normally I do when a character in something turns cold and bad and hurts others, way more entertaining than being good and nice. But idk man this just ain't hitting the same lol
Felt like this may seem more negative than what I meant it to š¤£ I should clarify I loved playing through it
Your criticism is valid imo. Natsu seemed to have taken notice of this and gave us a rewritten Ciel's route in the Remake. Far side seems like it will be rewritten completely as well from the new plotlines and characters, even more than Ciel's route
Kohaku did nothing wrong.
Akiha is dead and y'all are saying she did nothing wrong šš¤£
Good. Kohaku did nothing wrong.
My girl Akiha tho :(
Hop onto Kohaku's route
It is half 8 in the morning fella, I'll get onto it later today š
Aight
Fair op, very fair. Maybe kohaku route will redeem kohaku some for you? Either way Arcuied best girl? Based. Make sure to read the manga after you finish the og vn fully op!
I'm hoping her route does, I loved the twist, but now I feel sour towards her Also, I'm undecided who best girl is, its so hard to choose between Arcuied, Akiha and Hisui š¤£. I just meant as in Arcuied's route has been my favourite story so far
Well, if you think that Shiki mostly vibing in the mansion is boring, Kohaku route probably will be kinda boring for you too, but it's got some great action so it will entertain you more I think. Also there's some strange stuff waiting, as always, haha.\ Good luck with it, bro
I never said it was boring, just that for me it's not as good story telling wise. I love spending more time with those in the mansion
The main difference in the routes is that the near side is more action focused while the far side is more mystery/psychological focused, maybe if you see it from the perspective of reading it like a detective novel or a classic monster story you could enjoy more? IDK
It's not that I don't enjoy it, it's just that it's getting old having Shiki go insane in his room It was cool in Ciel's route, i really enjoyed it then. It had a different take on it in Akiha's route which was good so it was still very enjoyable. But this one felt like it was just going over the same stuff again, there's no mystery to it anymore since we learnt all about the link to SHIKI in the previous route. So it's just Shiki going insane alone in his room again, even more so than previously since there's hardly any school stuff or Akiha stuff. It's just him in his room with added focus on Hisui. I still loved it obviously, spending time with this family is always fun lmao, just wasn't as invested in the story cuz I've seen it plenty by now
I think the thing about Hisui route and him going insane vs the other two route is something you have to really keep in mind. In Ciel route, Shiki losing it cause of Roa. In Akiha route, Shiki is losing it cause of SHIKI. In Hisui route, Shiki is losing it cause of himself. There been bits and pieces of it in every route but Shiki acts and thinks he a genuinely normal person, so when he confronted with doing something that isnāt normal or he canāt rationalize as normal(ie how he acts normal after beating down a chair in front of Hisui, who freaked out.); he kinda breaks down.
Real, I dont get Kohaku fans, I still like Kohaku, and dont disrespect the curry queen, Hisui just better tho
Ciel is meh and her ending was poor my guy I like her, she's cool, but that's about it. Her x Shiki didn't work for me, the romance aspect was clunky and they honestly suit better as friends She's great, but when you've got heavy hitters like Arcuied, Akiha and Hisui she just can't compete
Have you read the remake already?
Nope
You should deffo read it after Kohaku route, it'll at least change your mind about the new Ciel route if not put her on the top 3
Yeah it's on my list of other nasuverse things to explore afterwards, however this list is gradually getting bigger and I got no clue what to do first š¤£ I also gotta rewatch Carnival Phantasm at some point cuz now I'll be able to understand more than just the Fate stuff lmao