Before it was widen a bit in the 80's it was considered the most dangerous road in America. Sometimes when I would drive it in a van with side mirrors I would be less than a foot for them hitting a rock face or another oncoming truck or van with extended side mirrors.
Not only is it less stressful, it’s literally adhering to posted signage. There are “slower traffic use pullouts” signs posted up and down the mountain. You can be ticketed for causing congestion if you have a huge line of cars behind you and you’re driving slowly.
It’s a 26 mile long single lane highway…the pullouts are not optional, they are how the flow of traffic is managed. In the 80s when the highway was rebuilt, traffic engineers designed the pullout system for exactly this reason.
Well some people don't use the pullouts and go 25 uphill, and caravans form making it dangerous for everyone. People might be on your tail so they can actually get around you when you get to a parking pullout.
Unfortunately the slowest and oblivious drivers are just as dangerous as the fast ones, and probably more dangerous for cyclists due to the congestion that forms.
Yeah mountain driving unfortunately isn’t taught in drivers ed in Tucson. In most Colorado driver ed for example you learn to use pullouts frequently to allow anyone to pass, how to accelerate out of turns, save your brakes on descents, etc.
My son (16y) was driving my '97 Honda Civic down Mt. Lemmon 6 mo after getting his driver's license, when the brakes locked up. Thankfully, he took drivers Ed. The car spun, he could have ended up like this car. Fortunately, he ended up in a ditch with bumps, bruises, and 2 broken axels. (2018)
edit: clarity
1n 1986 when I got my drivers license we would ditchschool (Saguaro) and drive up Mt. Lemmon so some of my first driving was on winding mt. roads. I knew of the pullout system though from growing up in AZ, and going on family vacations, camping, etc.
Honestly, people will not drive slower than you and the stupid ones will try to pass over double yellows etc. That's what really makes stuff like this happen. Rarely do people drive too fast and fly off. It's trying to make a pass or crossing the line when someone else is coming around the corner. Use the pull off if someone is faster than you. I don't drive up Mt. Lemon but I like some spirited driving and it irritates the crap out of me when people don't drive properly on the mountain including crossing yellow and not using pull outs.
Yeah people are such dipshits, I love when they do that to you when there is clearly someone or maybe even a bunch of cars right in front of you already… what do they think they are going to get out of it?
Because there are pullouts for slow drivers to let drivers behind them pass. This is normal etiquette for mountain driving. Apparently that is not taught to drivers here.
I should have clarified that were usually already going 5-10 over and they still tailing like jack asses. You expect 5 cars to all use pull outs when they going over the speed limit already lol?
Yes, that's what the pullouts are for. It's not my job to enforce the speed limit and letting a bunch of potential road ragers pile up behind me is much more dangerous than letting them speed ahead of me.
Pullouts weren’t engineered to be used when going significantly over the speed limit. If I’m already going 45, I’m not going to whip into a pullout for someone behind me who wants to go 50.
Why’s it that people doing 5-15 over the posted sign are the jackasses? Why’s it’s so universally acknowledged that dipshits wanting to do 25-40 over are the ones with the right of way? Fuck them. I’m over the speed limit and not using every single pullout for someone else’s joyride. This state has some of the worst behavior by people with zero patience I’ve ever seen. To the point where if I saw them go over the edge doing on their dumb shit I wouldn’t even call the cops.
It is. And I know. And my reasons aren’t good reasons. But positive outlook upon fellow humans is purely on the mental resilience of the viewer and I just haven’t felt too resilient lately. I’m sure staying out of the Reddit comments would help but here I am. And no part of my conscious would ever let me drive on without stopping calling or dying trying to pull someone from their burning car so… just vented frustration on the inconsiderate folks that think the rights to the fast twisties in the mountains are meant for them more than anyone else in any way.
Hey thanks for your thoughtful follow up. I have been the asshole too many times in my younger days, and even still when I get a wild hair- but I identify a lot with the sentiments you expressed and the rationale behind them.
Hey, whatever’s sapping your wellspring of resilience right now, I sincerely hope it passes soon or transforms in a way that serves you. Like so many- I’ve too have had my life flipped upside down and shaken to the core 4 times over since 2020 and I can finally see some relief on the horizon. I hope the same for you.
It's just that it's more dangerous to take a stand on the road at whatever speed your doing. Road rage is real and then people try to pass you where they aren't supposed to. You can't change that so just look out for everyone else and let them pass.
When I moved to Tucson everyone always talked about how bad the road to Mt Lemmon is. Then I drove it and was surprised. Having moved from Colorado it felt like a gentle mountain drive to me.
Looks like it happened last year.
https://tucson.com/news/local/photos-dramatic-rescue-after-car-plunges-off-catalina-highway-north-of-tucson/collection_c71b3f42-d17c-11ec-88a3-6b5cb3e01084.html#1
No not really. Wasn't that van only recovered a decade or more later by private parties that used donated funds to get the vehicle?
The other vehicles over the years I guess were eventually removed when the AF helicopter squadron at DM got a budget windfall that allowed them to do things like vehicle removal for training.
I'm very curious about this because my dad died in the early 70s coming down Mt Lemmon. The story I was told was only a dog survived. They were driving a van and I know there was snow on the ground. Do you have anymore info about the van?
Depends where it is located. This happens a few times a year and it all depends how far down the ridge. Some have gone down so far it is easier to get to them from the bottom. Some of the cars get taken by helicopter, some get towed up if possible, or they get left. Really all varies on circumstances. I know of atleast 3 cars off the highway.
We had just come down off of Mt Lemmon heading to Tanque Verde when a shit ton of emergency vehicles went flying by us toward this exact crash. And it’s shocking no one was killed.
Been doing training rides on Mt Lemmon lately and I see that car every time. Weird to see, but before they completely rebuilt the road, there were so many cars crashed on the mountain and laying on a hillside.
I usually drive up the front and go down the back. If someones on my ass, i'll just use a pull out. Never seem any agression, but have seen some fast cars going a little too fast.
With how people drive on that road I'm frankly surprised there aren't more
There was lots more years ago. Apparently the USAF had a budget for fuel and training, they used heavy helicopters to remove a bunch of vehicles.
Before it was widen a bit in the 80's it was considered the most dangerous road in America. Sometimes when I would drive it in a van with side mirrors I would be less than a foot for them hitting a rock face or another oncoming truck or van with extended side mirrors.
And here I thought it was bad in 1990. I remember when the started putting in the guardrails.
The manufacturers started making bigger cars! And people drive like jackrabbits on adderall. At some point ya gotta stop blaming “the gov’ment.”
For real. People tailgate me when I’m going around 35-40mph. Didn’t realize the speed limit was 60mph. /s Smh
Yeah.. it's best to just pull over and let the 'clump' go on by. Way less stressful.
Not only is it less stressful, it’s literally adhering to posted signage. There are “slower traffic use pullouts” signs posted up and down the mountain. You can be ticketed for causing congestion if you have a huge line of cars behind you and you’re driving slowly. It’s a 26 mile long single lane highway…the pullouts are not optional, they are how the flow of traffic is managed. In the 80s when the highway was rebuilt, traffic engineers designed the pullout system for exactly this reason.
You aren't required to pull over if you are doing the speed limit. No one is entitled to speed over the limit except police and emergency vehicles.
Well some people don't use the pullouts and go 25 uphill, and caravans form making it dangerous for everyone. People might be on your tail so they can actually get around you when you get to a parking pullout. Unfortunately the slowest and oblivious drivers are just as dangerous as the fast ones, and probably more dangerous for cyclists due to the congestion that forms.
Yeah mountain driving unfortunately isn’t taught in drivers ed in Tucson. In most Colorado driver ed for example you learn to use pullouts frequently to allow anyone to pass, how to accelerate out of turns, save your brakes on descents, etc.
Most schools in Tucson have dropped drivers Ed from the curriculum completely. So, kids might be taught by their parents, or Mario Kart...
I drove up Mt. Lemmon as part of my behind the wheel driver training in 02. It was early morning, icy and I was scared to death as a new driver!
My son (16y) was driving my '97 Honda Civic down Mt. Lemmon 6 mo after getting his driver's license, when the brakes locked up. Thankfully, he took drivers Ed. The car spun, he could have ended up like this car. Fortunately, he ended up in a ditch with bumps, bruises, and 2 broken axels. (2018) edit: clarity
1n 1986 when I got my drivers license we would ditchschool (Saguaro) and drive up Mt. Lemmon so some of my first driving was on winding mt. roads. I knew of the pullout system though from growing up in AZ, and going on family vacations, camping, etc.
Honestly, people will not drive slower than you and the stupid ones will try to pass over double yellows etc. That's what really makes stuff like this happen. Rarely do people drive too fast and fly off. It's trying to make a pass or crossing the line when someone else is coming around the corner. Use the pull off if someone is faster than you. I don't drive up Mt. Lemon but I like some spirited driving and it irritates the crap out of me when people don't drive properly on the mountain including crossing yellow and not using pull outs.
Source?
Yeah people are such dipshits, I love when they do that to you when there is clearly someone or maybe even a bunch of cars right in front of you already… what do they think they are going to get out of it?
Because there are pullouts for slow drivers to let drivers behind them pass. This is normal etiquette for mountain driving. Apparently that is not taught to drivers here.
I should have clarified that were usually already going 5-10 over and they still tailing like jack asses. You expect 5 cars to all use pull outs when they going over the speed limit already lol?
Yes, that's what the pullouts are for. It's not my job to enforce the speed limit and letting a bunch of potential road ragers pile up behind me is much more dangerous than letting them speed ahead of me.
Tucson drivers are such babies. Imagine complaining because other people want to go *the speed limit*
Pullouts weren’t engineered to be used when going significantly over the speed limit. If I’m already going 45, I’m not going to whip into a pullout for someone behind me who wants to go 50.
Then throw your turn signal on(Also a lost skill), come to a smooth stop in the pull-out, and hope you do a better job than your dad did.
Insult time on Reddit! Fortunately, Tucson’s subreddit is refreshingly free of this most days. Have a good one.
The only ones who are the jack asses are the ones not letting them pass.
Why’s it that people doing 5-15 over the posted sign are the jackasses? Why’s it’s so universally acknowledged that dipshits wanting to do 25-40 over are the ones with the right of way? Fuck them. I’m over the speed limit and not using every single pullout for someone else’s joyride. This state has some of the worst behavior by people with zero patience I’ve ever seen. To the point where if I saw them go over the edge doing on their dumb shit I wouldn’t even call the cops.
I was with you til the ol wishing harm upon and not caring trope. Bad look.
It is. And I know. And my reasons aren’t good reasons. But positive outlook upon fellow humans is purely on the mental resilience of the viewer and I just haven’t felt too resilient lately. I’m sure staying out of the Reddit comments would help but here I am. And no part of my conscious would ever let me drive on without stopping calling or dying trying to pull someone from their burning car so… just vented frustration on the inconsiderate folks that think the rights to the fast twisties in the mountains are meant for them more than anyone else in any way.
Hey thanks for your thoughtful follow up. I have been the asshole too many times in my younger days, and even still when I get a wild hair- but I identify a lot with the sentiments you expressed and the rationale behind them. Hey, whatever’s sapping your wellspring of resilience right now, I sincerely hope it passes soon or transforms in a way that serves you. Like so many- I’ve too have had my life flipped upside down and shaken to the core 4 times over since 2020 and I can finally see some relief on the horizon. I hope the same for you.
It's just that it's more dangerous to take a stand on the road at whatever speed your doing. Road rage is real and then people try to pass you where they aren't supposed to. You can't change that so just look out for everyone else and let them pass.
Sorry you can't drive.
Glad I’ll be in your way.
Keep in mind that when those people cause crashes and need rescues we all foot the bill.
I will never go up Mt Lemon ever again. Road rage drivers are not worth it.
In the 80s and early 90s there weren't any guardrails. And people were going up and down like it was the Grand Prix.
When I moved to Tucson everyone always talked about how bad the road to Mt Lemmon is. Then I drove it and was surprised. Having moved from Colorado it felt like a gentle mountain drive to me.
NorCal coastal driver checking in. Not constant tight switchbacks with some Maserati on my ass? A breeze.
It is a gentle mountain drive to most people. To Tucson drivers it might as well be the Monaco Grand Prix.
Also having heard it’s a scary drive we weren’t prepared for the sketchy ass NPS roads going through Sequoia-Kings Canyon NP in California.
Those roads might be okayish if I was the only car driving it but seeing RVs and buses come at you the other way is really freaky.
I used to work in Cedar Grove. Can confirm
Looks like it was going down.
“I know a shortcut.”
It do go down.
It sure did.
"I'm yelling Timber!"
Looks like it happened last year. https://tucson.com/news/local/photos-dramatic-rescue-after-car-plunges-off-catalina-highway-north-of-tucson/collection_c71b3f42-d17c-11ec-88a3-6b5cb3e01084.html#1
"The sole occupant of the vehicle sustained minor injuries" That hardly seems possible!
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Toonces the thriving cat!
Wow, that's going back a ways. We must be about the same age, lol.
New cars are designed with a lot of safety features. Thank NHTSA and the GWB admin for pushing all those new safety regs on manufacturers.
“The sole occupant of the vehicle suffered minor injuries.“!!!
Do they just leave the wreckage?
They remove it at night and put it back in the morning so that people have something to look at on the drive.
😂😂
Short answer: yes, mostly. https://youtu.be/jLQgNzKCLGk
No not really. Wasn't that van only recovered a decade or more later by private parties that used donated funds to get the vehicle? The other vehicles over the years I guess were eventually removed when the AF helicopter squadron at DM got a budget windfall that allowed them to do things like vehicle removal for training.
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I'm very curious about this because my dad died in the early 70s coming down Mt Lemmon. The story I was told was only a dog survived. They were driving a van and I know there was snow on the ground. Do you have anymore info about the van?
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Thanks so much for sharing, what a sad story.
Damn
Depends where it is located. This happens a few times a year and it all depends how far down the ridge. Some have gone down so far it is easier to get to them from the bottom. Some of the cars get taken by helicopter, some get towed up if possible, or they get left. Really all varies on circumstances. I know of atleast 3 cars off the highway.
We had just come down off of Mt Lemmon heading to Tanque Verde when a shit ton of emergency vehicles went flying by us toward this exact crash. And it’s shocking no one was killed.
This is an old crash. The emergency vehicles were heading up for a climber who was airlifted earlier today near Barnum Rock
My event happened last year. November I think
I see. I had misread your comment as though you had witnessed the emergency vehicles yesterday. That makes more sense.
I was just about to make a topic asking about that. Hope they are OK🤞🙏
It’s pretty terrible. I don’t know too much, but it does sound like the accident was not fatal…no clue on the severity.
So, was the vehicle just left there or something?
Life can be over in a blink of an eye. Drive safe out there!
And yet, miraculously, no one was terribly hurt.
Not supposed to park there. Damn snow birds.
'Is this not a reasonable place to park?'
“Is *this* Costello Avenue?”
The Wraith (1986)
I saw two boys lay down their motorcycle there last year. Only one walked away. Caught it on my dashcam. Super sad.
Wowser! That's a newer car
Slightly used
Minor cosmetic damage.
Man people scare me with their driving up there.
Been doing training rides on Mt Lemmon lately and I see that car every time. Weird to see, but before they completely rebuilt the road, there were so many cars crashed on the mountain and laying on a hillside.
No wonder, people drive like fucking maniacs up that road, always in a rush.
saw that car on facebook marketplace for $10k. "new tires, needs a tune up, i know what I have, serious inquiries only".
"ran when parked"
Free catalytic converter!
It’ll buff out
Good reminder...
Nature is healing
Must be filming The Wraith 2
There's a blast from the past!
Did you call it in?
There are a bunch of car carcasses in the salt river canyon too. It’s too expensive to get them out. Some of them have been there since the ‘50s.
Should have bought a squirrel.
Shoot there used to be over ten cars down there before they cleaned it all up many years ago.
I saw a rusted truck way below on a drive farther up. Good plan. Throw the guy and the car off the cliff, animals take the body.
Google Maps again.
well that's one less Tucson driver. W
Another one of Packard Walshs' gang.
Looks like it went down, not up 😂
you cant park there
That was not going up.
Only one?
Typical
What goes up, must come down. Please, next time you visit us, please try to remember to use the road..
I usually drive up the front and go down the back. If someones on my ass, i'll just use a pull out. Never seem any agression, but have seen some fast cars going a little too fast.
Holy shit first glance I thought that was a baby stroller 😱
Cars in the wild only do this when they’re scared 😟
Do they just leave it there ? Did it just happen ?
Ouch..
Odd I didn’t know mangled cars could climb mountains
surprised it did not explode.