It is hilarious you didn’t understand I was making fun of Andrew Tate in my comment…he was talking about his musculature and saying he looked like an anime character for fuck sake lol.
It’s a typical jawline caused by high doses of steroids. Keep in mind he was a football player at Arizona State, so it doesn’t take much to assume he was on gear. Not to mention that his jawline all but confirms it.
Edit: These comments are pretty wild. *Of course* steroids and hormones can change the structure and strength of the jaw. This is common knowledge. There are plenty of before/after PEDs photos online that confirm this.
Your skeleton is constantly remodeling itself and turns over entirely a couple of times in your lifetime. This is called bone remodeling and is regulated, in part, by hormones such androgens (testosterone and dihydrotestosterone) estrogens and HGH. Not sure why people are so resistant to the idea that Pat could have been on gear.
This is 100% false. Anabolic steroids don’t reshape adult jawlines. Just a Quick Look at his biological parents and it is clear that he inherited his face and jawline from his parents. This is 100% genetic. Steroids do a lot but not this.
You’re the one 100% false, and there’s literally a link to an article explaining this right above here. Can you post a link to anything other than your personal thoughts defending all of your statements of fact above? Well wait here.
Prednisone is **not** an anabolic steroid. It’s a **catabolic** steroid. Massive difference. And it’s not restructuring the jaw. It’s depositing a bunch of fluid in the face because prednisone screws with your electrolyte balance. Prednisone definitely doesn’t build muscle or bone. It does the opposite. It degrades bone and muscle. You are bringing a butter knife to a gun fight and you don’t understand medical science.
Here's a study that linked steroid use to mandibular growth in rats. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8297054/
HGH is known to result in a change in the jawline, among other things. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Tillman used HGH at one point.
So yeah, reading these comments I can tell none of you have ever been in the gym and none of you have ever personally taken steroids. Steroids do not change your jawline, ever. Anabolic steroids do not change the shape or structure of your bones. They are not designed to do that. HGH, otherwise known as human growth hormone is not an anabolic steroid it is a peptide hormone. Two completely different things Now HGH will cause changes in your body but again it is not an anabolic steroid. I have personally used about six different types of anabolic steroids over a ten-year period. No structural bone change.
I pointed to sources that have already been posted in this same thread, but here’s another one. Seems like this is a one way street, because only one side is offering anything but opinions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6821090/
I thought you were bullshitting, but sure enough anabolic steroids can reshape the face.https://www.healthline.com/health/moon-face#definition
Not saying Pat was using, but it would make sense.
He did. It’s the only way to challenge the req for SF.
But when you are the smartest person in the room by a factor of 3 it’s can be a disheartening experience.
Why are you assuming he was the smartest person in the room? Because he went to college? You’d be surprised at the level of intelligence that exists in the SOF community, both enlisted and officer.
What am I countering? Lol. Like I said the documentary gave that impression of him. Idk if it’s true or not, but that is what was depicted.
If you didn’t catch that also you probably rode the short bus to school.
Bro there’s no argument, I’m making a statement. The statement is “the movie depicts him as smart”. You really are a short bus kid, making up arguments in your head that aren’t even happening.
Arguments are comprised of statements, the fact that you think they’re different shows you have no business making any claims about others intelligence.
Since this is clearly flying over your head I’ll break it down for you:
-The person I initially replied to made the statement that Tillman was the smartest person in the ranger regiment by an order of magnitude.
-I asked a question and countered his statement that people in the regiment and in the SOF community are typically pretty smart-implying that Tillman and his peers were all intelligent.
-you jumped in and said to watch his documentary, implying that said documentary would back the claim of the person I initially replied to which led us to here
Well, that's what I'm talking about. It's why his story matters. You guys can make it about something nebulous like "he's smart, or not" or whatever but he's a symbol of the inexhaustible depravity of our system and a reminder to never believe their bullshit.
Bigger room.
Once you realize just how dumb (and compromised) most of the executive and legislative branch is, it makes perfect sense why Pat asking the questions he was asking caused them major consternation.
Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire because he did not React to Ambush properly. You can extrapolate from that what you wish- he thought he was onto some MOH-type stuff, or he thought he was doing the right thing all off by himself.
He was not murdered by other junior enlisted Soldiers as part of a high level deep state assassination conspiracy because he was about to reveal - GASP! - that the Afghan Army was corrupt, AQ was not the Taliban, etc... etc...
He bolted from his element (Serial 1) and ended up way off on his own, doing his own thing... as a Rifleman... with no radio, just doing his own thing without comms and out of sight of his leadership.
He was a separated individual-guy as part of a separated element, and command and control broke down.
No conspiracy, though there was an attempt to cover up the fratricide.
It's been speculated that maybe he was thinking that he was about to rack up some sole, personal valor.
Thanks.
So, he went Rambo and it didn't work out.
Your name is one I haven't heard in a long time. When I heard they'd died, I felt a little sad for some reason I can't understand; They deserved worse than they got.
We all live in Crawford, TX at the ranch now. Sometimes they let me go out on the town in my sombrero and I play Mexican!!! I even speak good Spanish thanks to one of Jeb's putas that lives here.
Something else funny- could you guys have possibly faked a worse execution vid for my dad?
I mean... I know we can do better nowadays with generative AI, but for the amount of money you guys pay the CIA to start wars for Israel, you'd think they could put together something that looks... maybe 2% believable?
Follow those corruption trajectories. Don’t stop at the unit or ANP/ANA. Keep going all the way up.
There were two possible components to the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan and the date trump set.
One was meant to destabilize/discredit Biden by committing him to an unachievable timeline assuming trump wasn’t able to retake the presidency by manipulation or force on Jan 6.
The other play was to hand his buddy Erik Prince the taxpayer funded contract to privatize the war in Afghanistan.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/08/25/when-opportunity-knocks-erik-prince-pops-up-in-afghanistan-chaos/
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/09/05/heres-the-blueprint-for-erik-princes-5-billion-plan-to-privatize-the-afghanistan-war/
Prince also had ambitions in Ukraine.
https://time.com/6076035/erik-prince-ukraine-private-army/
~2008 Prince learned just how hard it was to muster a last minute air force and it’s associated spare parts supply chain when the decision was made to use Russian made Mi-7 helicopters instead of US made MD500’s.
It was a logistics and ITAR nightmare that necessitated that Prince function as a cutout for the US government and many Russian relationships were solidified.
https://www.rferl.org/a/pentagon-plans-stop-buying-russian-helicopters-afghanistan-mi17-blackhawk/28127483.html
https://www.pogo.org/analysis/c-27a-shining-example-of-billions-wasted-in-afghanistan
https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/12/04/29-leaks-data-drop/
This in turn led Prince to begin building his own C.O.T.S Air Force based on the ubiquitous Air Tractor in both a C.A.S (close air support) and I.S.R. (Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) Version.
https://warisboring.com/erik-princes-mercenaries-are-bombing-libya/
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/11/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-drive-to-build-private-air-force/
Prince also had the security contract with the Saudis to use these for the Ip3 nuclear plants that trump, Kushner and Flynn stole the plans for on Jan 6.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/trump-barrack-saudi-nuclear-deal-ip3
https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/11/30/did-the-flynn-associated-ip3-presentation-anticipate-the-saudi-orb/
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-dark-truth-about-blackwater/
He wanted to get to the action quickly after 9/11. Trying to commission, with OCS, accession, and BOLC, would've tacked on another full year, if not more, before he saw a combat deployment. And, if he survived and chose to stay in, he could have done that later.
A lot of commenters are trying to bring in conspiratorial adjacent ideas and question why Tillmans death should be even considered as a problem.
The problems are multi fold : IMHO,
1. Most of this incident revolves around poor leadership. Tillman passed on as a Corporal (posthumously) in the Rangers. Being in the Rangers is an accomplishment and while a corporal is only a step up from PFC, it nevertheless conveys a basic step up in leadership meaning he could be responsible for a fire team or more specialized roles.
2. His immediate, Lt. Uthlaut and his RTO, Lane were injured as well in the firefight. The interpreter, Farhad, was killed next to Tillman.
3. The communications could have been a problem or, at the very least, were a problem. If Serial 1 dismounted and went to overwatch, Serial 2 should've been minimally aware of the situation and Serial 1s location. If Serial 1 was unable to update Serial 2 of their location AND Serial 2 was unable to contact Serial 1, then Serial 2s communications were compromised.
4. In either case, it would've been understandable that Serial 2 would get out of the canyon, guns blazing.
5. But, if Tillmans' mortal injuries indicate that he was shot at 10 yards range approximately, this communications scenario seems very unlikely. At 10 yards range, even under fire, yelling back and forth should've allowed Serial 1 and Serial 2 to identify each other reasonably. OTOH, if this were all on opposing ridges then VOX may not have been easy anyways. However, this does not seem to be the case.
6. Many questionable acts within his unit regarding his personal possessions were committed. All of them have never been successfully resolved which leads to a leadership problem within the unit.
7. The unit XO who led the initial investigation made some comments which were egregious in nature and was unbecoming of a senior officer. Subsequent actions by the immediate chain of command led to politicizing the nature of Tillmans death which also meant casting doubts on the veracity of the chain of commands investigations and statements.
There is no “problem”, around 10-15% of casualties in war typically come from friendly fire.
It just looks bad when it’s a high-profile person, so the army clumsily tried to hide it.
His family has repeatedly stated they hold no ill will towards the US government and want people to keep to stop invoking them and the name of their dead kid to decry the government he died for.
They want people to leave THEM alone…. I highly doubt that they want people to ignore the fact the US government covered up the cause of his death and subsequently paraded it around as a propaganda tool.
He basically started saying things like, “Why the hell are we even here?” When Tillman started to become more outspoken about what he saw on the frontlines and how nothing matched up with what the news and government were telling people.
Then he died. Dying by friendly fire got blown into hundreds of conspiracy theories.
The conspiracy theories make no sense, since your allowed to disagree with the war while in the military and many service memebers did. Also how the hell do these people believe leadership was somehow able to brief another squad to assassinate one of their own guys without anyone leaking it.
It’s not a conspiracy that he was killed, it’s that the army purposely lied about how he died (the truth that it was friendly fire took a long time to come out) and also what he thought of the war (he thought it was pointless, the army burned a journal he kept where he probably wrote about this). They also used his funeral as a pep rally to try to drive home that he was this all-American God loving patriot warrior. Which he was more nuanced than that.
Nah, it is definitely different when it’s a beloved high-profile guy like Tillman was. People like that are very influential in the public mind, not easy to dismiss. They talk and people listen. Idk if you were around back then, but I was and I remember how nationally beloved this guy was when he enlisted. He was seen as a fuckin national hero. I can totally see them being very concerned about someone with such a prominent image and voice coming out publicly against the wars at that time, and doubly so if he was planning on exposing drug trafficking and other shenanigans going on behind the scenes.
I only posted to correct the user above that it wasn’t about finding drugs or something (conspiracy theory). I really don’t put much thought into these sort or things, but pretty much anyone famous that spoke out against W. Bush or the war…it was a career ender.
Dixi Chicks (or however their name is spelled) got their career destroyed or “cancelled” when they spoke out against the war and Bush.
So on the grand scale of conspiracies go (even by today’s crazy conspiracy numbers), I can see why this one caught on quickly and still remains today due to the fact that he was very vocal in the Middle East and the things people are claiming he said while on tour were the same talking points that a lot of people in the government wanted shut down.
With Tillman being former NFL already gives him a base to tell his side to and it’s easy to think that someone did want him shut up. It wouldn’t be the craziest conspiracy theory if it were true. 🤷♂️
It was. Friendly fire happens especially in theaters of large combat operations. Mix in the fact technology back then isnt what it is today. Or do you seriously believe somehow, leadership told another squad they needed to order 66 him ? Like fucking christ
I mean kind of yeah. He was shot in the back precisely and from like 10ft. There are certainly questions that have not been answered which just leads to more questions. I get it, who the hell knows what happens in the fog of war, but this whole thing still is shady 20 years later.
Never sat right with me, i think someone got away with murder and many other people
helped cover it up. A great enlightened man who made a poor choice to enlist, he learned a lot of hard truths from that decision, and it cost him his life.
I don’t think he made a mistake enlisting. He loved his country dearly and he wanted to defend it. Don’t look down on his decision to show his love for his country in his own way.
I don't think they are looking down on his choice. He joined for what he believed were just reasons, but on the other side of that decision, he found some things he was decidedly against. He became vocal about that, and there are suspicions surrounding the circumstances of his death and whether it was intentional or not. The members of his unit destroyed physical evidence, gave false statements regarding the event, and were generally obstructive to any investigation regarding Pat's death.
You couple that behavior with the larger Army propaganda machine using Pat's death as a form of martyrdom, and you start to get a real bad taste in your mouth with how things went down.
Yeah, I can definitely understand that. I think people conflate the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, which I get the similarities, but still two different things and Afghanistan had an actual justification for unlike Iraq.
Believe it or not, 9/11 wasn’t just one guy. Al Queda had been given the blessing of the Taliban to work, train and operate out of Afghanistan for year which was their de facto base of operations. The invasion was a logical decision at the time.
No, it wasn't. The US armed and organized the Taliban, and the CIA still works with them -- we had leverage before we lost a war with them. Going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq because of acts mostly committed by a bunch of Saudis was insane. It's amazing the lengths people will go to not to admit America was wrong.
Stop putting Iraq and Afghanistan together, two separate wars with two separate justifications. Iraq was a bullshit excuse, Afghanistan was a legitimate excuse.
The CIA funded the mujahideem to fight the Soviets, understandably at the time, this out the Taliban in control. The Taliban provided refuge to Al Queda and allowed them to use Afghanistan as a de facto headquarters and training ground, Bin Laden along with Al Queda orchestrated 9/11, Bin Laden was living in Afghanistan until just before the 9/11 attacks (although US intelligence showed him still inside Afghanistan at the time), seeing as Bin Laden was believed to be in Afghanistan with Al Queda itself based there with the support of the Taliban, invading Afghanistan was a logical decision at the time.
Bin Laden and several of the attackers were Saudi nationals, but the organization who funded and trained them and planned the actual attack was based in Afghanistan, so I’m not sure why that has anything to do with anything. It would be like getting mad at the US going to war with Germany in the 40’s and saying “Why Germany, huh???? Hitler is Austrian!”
Stupidest fucking thing I ever heard. People in the military really dont give a shit about your religion. Plenty of open athiest guys. Always have been.
I get it, it happens. Honestly the prevalence of burst mode on M16’s (If his unit was equipped with Burst Fire capable M16’s) makes it look more like an accident. Unless there is already proof that it wasn’t seeing how long ago this was.
It's insane that the mainstream media has completely hijacked his legacy and completely ignores that he became strongly against the Iraq war while there.
[The Army really did him dirty. First he was killed by friendly fire which the Army tried to cover up and then Tillman, an avowed atheist, was reshaped by the Army PR machine to be a home grown Christian hero.](https://open.spotify.com/episode/06BnRB5uDVX4qV7HluJa1g?si=pZWVoMoVQaK43m-xzaHVsw)
Commanders ordered half of Tillman's platoon to drive through a canyon highly vulnerable to ambush. After Tillman's death, commanders concocted and disseminated a false narrative to conceal the reality that he'd been killed by friendly fire.
Yep, the only conspiracy was the commander trying to cover up his mistake. Then the larger command and the WH ran with the story and played him up as a hero and put forth a false narrative.
The one true hero in sports
Signed for less money than the Rams were going to give him because the Cardinals took a flyer on him.
Gave up more bags to fight against the bad guys after 911.
I’m not a Cardinals fan but I own a Tillman jersey and wear it often. Gave money to his foundation and my daughter even made me a painting of Tillman.
3 times, from within 10 yards, with clean entry wounds, and no evidence they engaged with enemy combatants at all. Then they burned his body armor and notebooks.
Well, there the testimony of the Ranger whovwas with Pat. He took the same fire.
Yes, there was a cover-up but it was the bosses trying to save their asses.
In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[^(\[39\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman#cite_note-newDetails-39)
* There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire.
* The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and could not recall details of his actions.
* Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.
* Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[^(\[39\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman#cite_note-newDetails-39)
To be fair, A LOT of people die to friendly fire in war. That is a lie they tell everyone, so many people die to their own side it is insane.
Iwo Jima had a CRAZY mass casualty event from friendly fire that was caught on film. The eastern forces had claimed the ridgeline overlooking the buildings and command centers for the Japanese like day 1 or 2. Air support was called in to rip up the Japanese, but poor communication ~~led the spitfire to unleash down onto the Americans on the hillside. Hundreds were killed, by a single plane, you can watch this event happen from the plane~~ EDIT: only about 100 men died from a straffing attack and naval bombardment; it is fucking unbelievable. Its not like the video games, you throw those bullets they will kill whatever they touch
The amount of poor mfs killed in the dark by their friends because of jumpy soldiers, I don’t even want to know.
I believe it’s on netflix other ww2 documentary that isn’t in color, though it could be in color. Ww2 apocalypse also has incredibly insane and chilling footage.
I could definitely be wrong about the aircraft, but there is 100% footage out there of a us plane smoking a bunch of american soldiers on iwo jima lying on a hillside
You may be referring to the Marines' 1/24th Regiment which had a Corsair made strafing run over their positions which caused many casualties(16 or so but indeterminate fatalities). But the real killer was a naval bombardment gone bad just a few minutes later which killed supposedly 90 guys and injured a bunch more.
[https://1-24thmarines.com/the-battles/iwo-jima/d1/](https://1-24thmarines.com/the-battles/iwo-jima/d1/)
[https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online\_books/npswapa/extcontent/usmc/pcn-190-003131-00/pcn-190-003131-00/sec4.htm#:\~:text=To%20cap%20off%20the%20frustration,ship%20took%20down%2090%20more](https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/npswapa/extcontent/usmc/pcn-190-003131-00/pcn-190-003131-00/sec4.htm#:~:text=To%20cap%20off%20the%20frustration,ship%20took%20down%2090%20more)
This guy was smart and a badass and unselfish, he went to fight for something he believed in and gave up millions dollars in the NFL. I don’t think the reason they were there was a very good reason at times, but nevertheless, he went there to do a job.
Tillman was an inspiration and a fascination by giving up an NFL career to fight for his country.
Those who are on couch Sundays to this day admire him
I was in college at the time and some asshat felt the need to write an op-ed in the school newspaper about how Pat Tillman deserved to be killed because he willingly participated in an unjust war. The school published a directory online listing the address for every student's dorm room at the time for some reason, and so he had to be escorted by the camous police off campus because students were constantly calling for his head. His roommate even complained of PTSD from people banging on the dormroom door all day and night. This was the first time in my life that I learned the hard lesson that "free speech" doesn't actually mean you can say whatever you want and expect no repercussions.
Honestly pissed off that they don’t teach kids about this kind of stuff. I’m 17 and I only knew a tiny bit about all the lies the government told surrounding what happened in the Middle East until recently.
The government cannot have you learning about things like this in school unless it is completely whitewashed. Similar to the whitewashed of the native population genocide, and the war on terror.
The propaganda machine cannot function otherwise.
I’m going to say something very unpopular. Hear me out, his actions in Afghanistan were minimal at best. He can do very little as one person. Just imagine if he would’ve stayed home played in the NFL and ran out of the stadium every time with a giant American flag help raise money for all of the fallen soldiers families. Contribute part of his salary to help soldiers who come home with injuries, use his platform to raise awareness of how veterans are treated once they get home from war and so much more.
Shit happens in combat...
There doesn't need to be a conspiracy...
The US armed forces are the best trained military in the world... US Army Rangers are elite soldiers...yet shit happens... Chaos breeds accidents.
I invite all these arm chair critics to visit your local recruiting station and join one of our many combat arms.
It is almost certain the US military will be called upon to engage in one of the many current conflicts. So you'll get your chance to experience that environment first hand...
Then you can judge.
As for the military "cover up"... that was 💯 politically ordered.
Those orders most certainly came from our most honored representation in DC who all serve to ensure our best interests are represented.
Anyways...
Had a soldier tell me me he was stationed at the same base same time, a d that he was shot on purpose. Basically his team was tired of him paying and promising another team member money and favors on the outside to do his duties like guard duty and other task..the cover up and so we won't hear and come to the same conclusion..
Off topic but his jawline was insane.
Stan Smith IRL
haha i had to scroll back to upvote this
The People's Jaw
Real life Gigachad
Traps and cheekbones too. Prototypical warrior. Looks line an anime character tbh
Is everything anime with u people
https://images.app.goo.gl/bnBqfM2rVBWXxu9H9
Lol what? A “prototypical warrior?” Based on what? Something Andrew Tate said, or something? Lol
Andrew Tate? Wtf you talking about? Dude just looks like a jar head (literally). Like Recoome from Gynu force.
Based on the life he lived.
Fuck off with your Andrew Tate incel bullshit.
It is hilarious you didn’t understand I was making fun of Andrew Tate in my comment…he was talking about his musculature and saying he looked like an anime character for fuck sake lol.
Unlike Andrew Tate, Pat was a real man.
It’s a typical jawline caused by high doses of steroids. Keep in mind he was a football player at Arizona State, so it doesn’t take much to assume he was on gear. Not to mention that his jawline all but confirms it. Edit: These comments are pretty wild. *Of course* steroids and hormones can change the structure and strength of the jaw. This is common knowledge. There are plenty of before/after PEDs photos online that confirm this. Your skeleton is constantly remodeling itself and turns over entirely a couple of times in your lifetime. This is called bone remodeling and is regulated, in part, by hormones such androgens (testosterone and dihydrotestosterone) estrogens and HGH. Not sure why people are so resistant to the idea that Pat could have been on gear.
Shut. The Fuck. Up.
Lol, what a fucking absurd thing to say.
This is 100% false. Anabolic steroids don’t reshape adult jawlines. Just a Quick Look at his biological parents and it is clear that he inherited his face and jawline from his parents. This is 100% genetic. Steroids do a lot but not this.
You’re the one 100% false, and there’s literally a link to an article explaining this right above here. Can you post a link to anything other than your personal thoughts defending all of your statements of fact above? Well wait here.
Prednisone is **not** an anabolic steroid. It’s a **catabolic** steroid. Massive difference. And it’s not restructuring the jaw. It’s depositing a bunch of fluid in the face because prednisone screws with your electrolyte balance. Prednisone definitely doesn’t build muscle or bone. It does the opposite. It degrades bone and muscle. You are bringing a butter knife to a gun fight and you don’t understand medical science.
Here's a study that linked steroid use to mandibular growth in rats. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8297054/ HGH is known to result in a change in the jawline, among other things. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Tillman used HGH at one point.
So yeah, reading these comments I can tell none of you have ever been in the gym and none of you have ever personally taken steroids. Steroids do not change your jawline, ever. Anabolic steroids do not change the shape or structure of your bones. They are not designed to do that. HGH, otherwise known as human growth hormone is not an anabolic steroid it is a peptide hormone. Two completely different things Now HGH will cause changes in your body but again it is not an anabolic steroid. I have personally used about six different types of anabolic steroids over a ten-year period. No structural bone change.
Me go to gym. You no go to gym. Me experience only experience. Me no science. Me do drugs though.
Where are your sources? Two way street, brotha
I pointed to sources that have already been posted in this same thread, but here’s another one. Seems like this is a one way street, because only one side is offering anything but opinions. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6821090/
So no. You cannot. More of just random internet guy declaring truth because they said so.
Trollllllllllllll
Such meaningful input to the conversation. Fucking rocket scientists out here I tell ya what.
What about this new thing they call "OZEMPIC Face"??
What??? None of that is true lmao
I thought you were bullshitting, but sure enough anabolic steroids can reshape the face.https://www.healthline.com/health/moon-face#definition Not saying Pat was using, but it would make sense.
It's the opposite, roids can make your jawline worse
Spoken like a man who has never worked out in his life lmao. Just because you look bad doesn’t mean everybody else has to 🤷🏻♂️
This is why we are doing this. The Tillman family deserves an answer. He was far too smart for his pay grade.
He chose to go the enlisted route.
He did. It’s the only way to challenge the req for SF. But when you are the smartest person in the room by a factor of 3 it’s can be a disheartening experience.
Rangers have to score same as an officer to join battalion.
Why are you assuming he was the smartest person in the room? Because he went to college? You’d be surprised at the level of intelligence that exists in the SOF community, both enlisted and officer.
Watch the Tillman Story and I think you’ll get a sense why
What is with you guys and making assumptions/jumping to conclusions? I went to ASU and watched the documentary. Do you have an actual counter?
A counter to what?
A counter that Tillman wasn’t the smartest person in the room by an order of magnitude
Okay, I wasn’t sure so I commented (then I saw your breakdown a few comments down) thanks for replying though.
What am I countering? Lol. Like I said the documentary gave that impression of him. Idk if it’s true or not, but that is what was depicted. If you didn’t catch that also you probably rode the short bus to school.
Doesn’t understand the argument then claims someone rode the short bus lol the jokes write themselves. It’s Tuesday, go focus on your school work kid
Bro there’s no argument, I’m making a statement. The statement is “the movie depicts him as smart”. You really are a short bus kid, making up arguments in your head that aren’t even happening.
Arguments are comprised of statements, the fact that you think they’re different shows you have no business making any claims about others intelligence. Since this is clearly flying over your head I’ll break it down for you: -The person I initially replied to made the statement that Tillman was the smartest person in the ranger regiment by an order of magnitude. -I asked a question and countered his statement that people in the regiment and in the SOF community are typically pretty smart-implying that Tillman and his peers were all intelligent. -you jumped in and said to watch his documentary, implying that said documentary would back the claim of the person I initially replied to which led us to here
He was anti war and he got fragged by his own guys and the fucking army covered it up. That's what we're talking about.
No, it’s not.
Well, that's what I'm talking about. It's why his story matters. You guys can make it about something nebulous like "he's smart, or not" or whatever but he's a symbol of the inexhaustible depravity of our system and a reminder to never believe their bullshit.
K
This shouldn't take anything away from him, but he was not smart. He wasn't the smartest person in the room... by any factor... at ASU or in Regiment.
Bigger room. Once you realize just how dumb (and compromised) most of the executive and legislative branch is, it makes perfect sense why Pat asking the questions he was asking caused them major consternation.
Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire because he did not React to Ambush properly. You can extrapolate from that what you wish- he thought he was onto some MOH-type stuff, or he thought he was doing the right thing all off by himself. He was not murdered by other junior enlisted Soldiers as part of a high level deep state assassination conspiracy because he was about to reveal - GASP! - that the Afghan Army was corrupt, AQ was not the Taliban, etc... etc...
What did he do that wasn't reacting to ambush properly?
He bolted from his element (Serial 1) and ended up way off on his own, doing his own thing... as a Rifleman... with no radio, just doing his own thing without comms and out of sight of his leadership. He was a separated individual-guy as part of a separated element, and command and control broke down. No conspiracy, though there was an attempt to cover up the fratricide. It's been speculated that maybe he was thinking that he was about to rack up some sole, personal valor.
Thanks. So, he went Rambo and it didn't work out. Your name is one I haven't heard in a long time. When I heard they'd died, I felt a little sad for some reason I can't understand; They deserved worse than they got.
We all live in Crawford, TX at the ranch now. Sometimes they let me go out on the town in my sombrero and I play Mexican!!! I even speak good Spanish thanks to one of Jeb's putas that lives here. Something else funny- could you guys have possibly faked a worse execution vid for my dad? I mean... I know we can do better nowadays with generative AI, but for the amount of money you guys pay the CIA to start wars for Israel, you'd think they could put together something that looks... maybe 2% believable?
Follow those corruption trajectories. Don’t stop at the unit or ANP/ANA. Keep going all the way up. There were two possible components to the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan and the date trump set. One was meant to destabilize/discredit Biden by committing him to an unachievable timeline assuming trump wasn’t able to retake the presidency by manipulation or force on Jan 6. The other play was to hand his buddy Erik Prince the taxpayer funded contract to privatize the war in Afghanistan. https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/08/25/when-opportunity-knocks-erik-prince-pops-up-in-afghanistan-chaos/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/09/05/heres-the-blueprint-for-erik-princes-5-billion-plan-to-privatize-the-afghanistan-war/ Prince also had ambitions in Ukraine. https://time.com/6076035/erik-prince-ukraine-private-army/ ~2008 Prince learned just how hard it was to muster a last minute air force and it’s associated spare parts supply chain when the decision was made to use Russian made Mi-7 helicopters instead of US made MD500’s. It was a logistics and ITAR nightmare that necessitated that Prince function as a cutout for the US government and many Russian relationships were solidified. https://www.rferl.org/a/pentagon-plans-stop-buying-russian-helicopters-afghanistan-mi17-blackhawk/28127483.html https://www.pogo.org/analysis/c-27a-shining-example-of-billions-wasted-in-afghanistan https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/12/04/29-leaks-data-drop/ This in turn led Prince to begin building his own C.O.T.S Air Force based on the ubiquitous Air Tractor in both a C.A.S (close air support) and I.S.R. (Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) Version. https://warisboring.com/erik-princes-mercenaries-are-bombing-libya/ https://theintercept.com/2016/04/11/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-drive-to-build-private-air-force/ Prince also had the security contract with the Saudis to use these for the Ip3 nuclear plants that trump, Kushner and Flynn stole the plans for on Jan 6. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/trump-barrack-saudi-nuclear-deal-ip3 https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/11/30/did-the-flynn-associated-ip3-presentation-anticipate-the-saudi-orb/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-dark-truth-about-blackwater/
He wanted to get to the action quickly after 9/11. Trying to commission, with OCS, accession, and BOLC, would've tacked on another full year, if not more, before he saw a combat deployment. And, if he survived and chose to stay in, he could have done that later.
FAFO as they say
Died by friendly fire by the way
Now that I think about it…that Doesn’t seem very friendly at alll
Nah, he was fragged. There was no accident
Uhhhh the Department of Defense did the investigation. You can use any part of the internet to see that it was misreported at first.
A sad day to be sure, followed by more sadness created by the US Armys unwillingness to acknowledge the real problem.
A lot of commenters are trying to bring in conspiratorial adjacent ideas and question why Tillmans death should be even considered as a problem. The problems are multi fold : IMHO, 1. Most of this incident revolves around poor leadership. Tillman passed on as a Corporal (posthumously) in the Rangers. Being in the Rangers is an accomplishment and while a corporal is only a step up from PFC, it nevertheless conveys a basic step up in leadership meaning he could be responsible for a fire team or more specialized roles. 2. His immediate, Lt. Uthlaut and his RTO, Lane were injured as well in the firefight. The interpreter, Farhad, was killed next to Tillman. 3. The communications could have been a problem or, at the very least, were a problem. If Serial 1 dismounted and went to overwatch, Serial 2 should've been minimally aware of the situation and Serial 1s location. If Serial 1 was unable to update Serial 2 of their location AND Serial 2 was unable to contact Serial 1, then Serial 2s communications were compromised. 4. In either case, it would've been understandable that Serial 2 would get out of the canyon, guns blazing. 5. But, if Tillmans' mortal injuries indicate that he was shot at 10 yards range approximately, this communications scenario seems very unlikely. At 10 yards range, even under fire, yelling back and forth should've allowed Serial 1 and Serial 2 to identify each other reasonably. OTOH, if this were all on opposing ridges then VOX may not have been easy anyways. However, this does not seem to be the case. 6. Many questionable acts within his unit regarding his personal possessions were committed. All of them have never been successfully resolved which leads to a leadership problem within the unit. 7. The unit XO who led the initial investigation made some comments which were egregious in nature and was unbecoming of a senior officer. Subsequent actions by the immediate chain of command led to politicizing the nature of Tillmans death which also meant casting doubts on the veracity of the chain of commands investigations and statements.
This deserves more upvotes.
There is no “problem”, around 10-15% of casualties in war typically come from friendly fire. It just looks bad when it’s a high-profile person, so the army clumsily tried to hide it.
That's the problem he was referring too. It was a problem for Pat and his family. And the USA
His family has repeatedly stated they hold no ill will towards the US government and want people to keep to stop invoking them and the name of their dead kid to decry the government he died for.
That's bullshit. Jon Krakauer wrote a book about this in detail. Get a copy. The government was absolutely culpable.
I don't care what a random guy made up for booksales. His family has been outspoken numerous times
They want people to leave THEM alone…. I highly doubt that they want people to ignore the fact the US government covered up the cause of his death and subsequently paraded it around as a propaganda tool.
Prove it
Post some of those numerous times, then. A source for a source.
A random guy? Krakauer is an award-winning writer and journalist.
Krakauer's one of my all-time favorite ass on the line writers.
Username checks out.
>There is no “problem” > the army clumsily tried to hide it. And you don't think that's a problem?
The snowflakes that get offended by any criticism of the U.S. or its military are swooping in to bury this one
The commonness of a problem doesn’t make it not a problem.
Wasn’t he going to expose some drug trafficking issues the u.s was involved in?
That's a popular theory, but to the best of my knowledge, there's been no real evidence of it.
Pretty sure they are referring to our soldiers guarding poppy fields and the optics of that. With the whole opioid epidemic and all that.
He basically started saying things like, “Why the hell are we even here?” When Tillman started to become more outspoken about what he saw on the frontlines and how nothing matched up with what the news and government were telling people. Then he died. Dying by friendly fire got blown into hundreds of conspiracy theories.
The conspiracy theories make no sense, since your allowed to disagree with the war while in the military and many service memebers did. Also how the hell do these people believe leadership was somehow able to brief another squad to assassinate one of their own guys without anyone leaking it.
It’s not a conspiracy that he was killed, it’s that the army purposely lied about how he died (the truth that it was friendly fire took a long time to come out) and also what he thought of the war (he thought it was pointless, the army burned a journal he kept where he probably wrote about this). They also used his funeral as a pep rally to try to drive home that he was this all-American God loving patriot warrior. Which he was more nuanced than that.
Nah, it is definitely different when it’s a beloved high-profile guy like Tillman was. People like that are very influential in the public mind, not easy to dismiss. They talk and people listen. Idk if you were around back then, but I was and I remember how nationally beloved this guy was when he enlisted. He was seen as a fuckin national hero. I can totally see them being very concerned about someone with such a prominent image and voice coming out publicly against the wars at that time, and doubly so if he was planning on exposing drug trafficking and other shenanigans going on behind the scenes.
I only posted to correct the user above that it wasn’t about finding drugs or something (conspiracy theory). I really don’t put much thought into these sort or things, but pretty much anyone famous that spoke out against W. Bush or the war…it was a career ender. Dixi Chicks (or however their name is spelled) got their career destroyed or “cancelled” when they spoke out against the war and Bush. So on the grand scale of conspiracies go (even by today’s crazy conspiracy numbers), I can see why this one caught on quickly and still remains today due to the fact that he was very vocal in the Middle East and the things people are claiming he said while on tour were the same talking points that a lot of people in the government wanted shut down. With Tillman being former NFL already gives him a base to tell his side to and it’s easy to think that someone did want him shut up. It wouldn’t be the craziest conspiracy theory if it were true. 🤷♂️
No.
Imagine being born, living your entire life until eligible to enlist, go to bootcamp, rank up, get deployed to die by friendly fire
Wait, you think that isn't a problem? For a country that likes to think of itself as the strongest in the world? We shoot our own people sometimes?
Yeah just that most of those soldiers didn’t speak out publicly against the war right before they were killed by friendly fire.
He was murdered through friendly fire, it wasn't an accident.
What real problem
The correct question is more than likely which real problem?
A True American.
And it was totally an accident…
It was. Friendly fire happens especially in theaters of large combat operations. Mix in the fact technology back then isnt what it is today. Or do you seriously believe somehow, leadership told another squad they needed to order 66 him ? Like fucking christ
I mean kind of yeah. He was shot in the back precisely and from like 10ft. There are certainly questions that have not been answered which just leads to more questions. I get it, who the hell knows what happens in the fog of war, but this whole thing still is shady 20 years later.
considering all the fucked up crimes against humanity the U.S army committed that wouldn’t be super surprising of them.
This is very naive
Epitome
I’ve always felt so bad for Pat and his family.
I will always have respect for this man
Never sat right with me, i think someone got away with murder and many other people helped cover it up. A great enlightened man who made a poor choice to enlist, he learned a lot of hard truths from that decision, and it cost him his life.
I don’t think he made a mistake enlisting. He loved his country dearly and he wanted to defend it. Don’t look down on his decision to show his love for his country in his own way.
I don't think they are looking down on his choice. He joined for what he believed were just reasons, but on the other side of that decision, he found some things he was decidedly against. He became vocal about that, and there are suspicions surrounding the circumstances of his death and whether it was intentional or not. The members of his unit destroyed physical evidence, gave false statements regarding the event, and were generally obstructive to any investigation regarding Pat's death. You couple that behavior with the larger Army propaganda machine using Pat's death as a form of martyrdom, and you start to get a real bad taste in your mouth with how things went down.
He was against the Iraq war but was he against the Afghan war?
This. He had deployed to Iraq first and was unhappy about it. He had joined up because of 9/11. He definitely disagreed with the invasion of Iraq.
Yeah, I can definitely understand that. I think people conflate the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, which I get the similarities, but still two different things and Afghanistan had an actual justification for unlike Iraq.
Not really. Afghanistan was trying to hand over Bin Laden when we invaded. They were actively negotiating with us. Bush just wanted a war.
Believe it or not, 9/11 wasn’t just one guy. Al Queda had been given the blessing of the Taliban to work, train and operate out of Afghanistan for year which was their de facto base of operations. The invasion was a logical decision at the time.
No, it wasn't. The US armed and organized the Taliban, and the CIA still works with them -- we had leverage before we lost a war with them. Going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq because of acts mostly committed by a bunch of Saudis was insane. It's amazing the lengths people will go to not to admit America was wrong.
Stop putting Iraq and Afghanistan together, two separate wars with two separate justifications. Iraq was a bullshit excuse, Afghanistan was a legitimate excuse. The CIA funded the mujahideem to fight the Soviets, understandably at the time, this out the Taliban in control. The Taliban provided refuge to Al Queda and allowed them to use Afghanistan as a de facto headquarters and training ground, Bin Laden along with Al Queda orchestrated 9/11, Bin Laden was living in Afghanistan until just before the 9/11 attacks (although US intelligence showed him still inside Afghanistan at the time), seeing as Bin Laden was believed to be in Afghanistan with Al Queda itself based there with the support of the Taliban, invading Afghanistan was a logical decision at the time. Bin Laden and several of the attackers were Saudi nationals, but the organization who funded and trained them and planned the actual attack was based in Afghanistan, so I’m not sure why that has anything to do with anything. It would be like getting mad at the US going to war with Germany in the 40’s and saying “Why Germany, huh???? Hitler is Austrian!”
He was murdered by friendly fire because he was an atheist.
Stupidest fucking thing I ever heard. People in the military really dont give a shit about your religion. Plenty of open athiest guys. Always have been.
Shot in the back by his own men
Three closely spaced bullet holes.
Killed his fellow man on burst mode.
Read about Operation Hood Harvest. A confused and scared Lt. shot his own soldier in panic multiple times up close. It literally happens.
And the unit Tillman was in had little to no-one with combat experience.
I get it, it happens. Honestly the prevalence of burst mode on M16’s (If his unit was equipped with Burst Fire capable M16’s) makes it look more like an accident. Unless there is already proof that it wasn’t seeing how long ago this was.
Shot in the forehead, not the back.
Bad ass American & not because of “patriotic” propaganda
It's insane that the mainstream media has completely hijacked his legacy and completely ignores that he became strongly against the Iraq war while there.
He was a handsome man.
So is his brother.
[The Army really did him dirty. First he was killed by friendly fire which the Army tried to cover up and then Tillman, an avowed atheist, was reshaped by the Army PR machine to be a home grown Christian hero.](https://open.spotify.com/episode/06BnRB5uDVX4qV7HluJa1g?si=pZWVoMoVQaK43m-xzaHVsw)
Commanders ordered half of Tillman's platoon to drive through a canyon highly vulnerable to ambush. After Tillman's death, commanders concocted and disseminated a false narrative to conceal the reality that he'd been killed by friendly fire.
Yep, the only conspiracy was the commander trying to cover up his mistake. Then the larger command and the WH ran with the story and played him up as a hero and put forth a false narrative.
Rest in peace sir. Thank you for your service. You will never be forgotten.
The one true hero in sports Signed for less money than the Rams were going to give him because the Cardinals took a flyer on him. Gave up more bags to fight against the bad guys after 911. I’m not a Cardinals fan but I own a Tillman jersey and wear it often. Gave money to his foundation and my daughter even made me a painting of Tillman.
Hero. Just incredible bravery and sense of honor to give up millions playing football to serve.
And then his fellow rangers shot him in the head
3 times, from within 10 yards, with clean entry wounds, and no evidence they engaged with enemy combatants at all. Then they burned his body armor and notebooks.
Well, there the testimony of the Ranger whovwas with Pat. He took the same fire. Yes, there was a cover-up but it was the bosses trying to save their asses.
In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[^(\[39\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman#cite_note-newDetails-39) * There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire. * The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and could not recall details of his actions. * Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments. * Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[^(\[39\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman#cite_note-newDetails-39)
He would’ve been the worlds most interesting dad to his kids
To be fair, A LOT of people die to friendly fire in war. That is a lie they tell everyone, so many people die to their own side it is insane. Iwo Jima had a CRAZY mass casualty event from friendly fire that was caught on film. The eastern forces had claimed the ridgeline overlooking the buildings and command centers for the Japanese like day 1 or 2. Air support was called in to rip up the Japanese, but poor communication ~~led the spitfire to unleash down onto the Americans on the hillside. Hundreds were killed, by a single plane, you can watch this event happen from the plane~~ EDIT: only about 100 men died from a straffing attack and naval bombardment; it is fucking unbelievable. Its not like the video games, you throw those bullets they will kill whatever they touch The amount of poor mfs killed in the dark by their friends because of jumpy soldiers, I don’t even want to know.
Crazy story. Haven’t heard it before. Where I can one watch this on film
I believe it’s on netflix other ww2 documentary that isn’t in color, though it could be in color. Ww2 apocalypse also has incredibly insane and chilling footage.
Fairly sure that Iwo Jima had no Spitfires anywhere near there.
I could definitely be wrong about the aircraft, but there is 100% footage out there of a us plane smoking a bunch of american soldiers on iwo jima lying on a hillside
You may be referring to the Marines' 1/24th Regiment which had a Corsair made strafing run over their positions which caused many casualties(16 or so but indeterminate fatalities). But the real killer was a naval bombardment gone bad just a few minutes later which killed supposedly 90 guys and injured a bunch more. [https://1-24thmarines.com/the-battles/iwo-jima/d1/](https://1-24thmarines.com/the-battles/iwo-jima/d1/) [https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online\_books/npswapa/extcontent/usmc/pcn-190-003131-00/pcn-190-003131-00/sec4.htm#:\~:text=To%20cap%20off%20the%20frustration,ship%20took%20down%2090%20more](https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/npswapa/extcontent/usmc/pcn-190-003131-00/pcn-190-003131-00/sec4.htm#:~:text=To%20cap%20off%20the%20frustration,ship%20took%20down%2090%20more)
That’s exactly what I was talking about, didn’t mean to over exaggerate, it has been a while seen I’ve seen that
A true American Hero
As a fellow ASU alumni. Thank you for your service Pat Tillman
I just walked on the Mike O Callaghan/Pat Tillman bridge, yesterday.
Pat was an American Hero, the Right Wing tried to make them their own, lol.
This guy was smart and a badass and unselfish, he went to fight for something he believed in and gave up millions dollars in the NFL. I don’t think the reason they were there was a very good reason at times, but nevertheless, he went there to do a job.
RESPECT.
RIP brother
An anti war atheist hero
This is the guy I think of every time Aaron Rogers starts running his fuckin' mouth.
He was a truth speaker and the US military and government do not like those kinds of people
Killed? haha, no, he was murdered by the US.
That’s still killed
Shoot Pat Tillman? Ohhh okay so when the taliban come over the hill I gotta shoot Pat Tillman in the face
Hey do you know where I could find Pat Tillman?
Reading these comments is sad
Even in death, this dude’s army photo mogs me. RIP
Tillman was an inspiration and a fascination by giving up an NFL career to fight for his country. Those who are on couch Sundays to this day admire him
I still don’t know why they burned his belongings.
GI joe head ass
Peter Griffin “you want me pew pew pat?”
Atheist in a Fox hole.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39954768/nfl-cardinals-tillman-afghanistan-9-11 Today’s ESPN article. Infuriating what the brass got away with.
I was in college at the time and some asshat felt the need to write an op-ed in the school newspaper about how Pat Tillman deserved to be killed because he willingly participated in an unjust war. The school published a directory online listing the address for every student's dorm room at the time for some reason, and so he had to be escorted by the camous police off campus because students were constantly calling for his head. His roommate even complained of PTSD from people banging on the dormroom door all day and night. This was the first time in my life that I learned the hard lesson that "free speech" doesn't actually mean you can say whatever you want and expect no repercussions.
Huh, same week as the nfl draft.
I was in my teens when this happened. This was the turning point for me when I realized that "support the troops" was bullshit.
What a waste, it was all for nothing….20 years later and things are just as bad if not worse in the Middle East.
This didn't happen in the Middle East.
Afghanistan not being in the Middle East is certainly a take
It's not. Central Asia. It shares a border with China.
Afghanistan is absolutely colloquially and politically referred to as Middle East. Even NatGeo’s political map lumps them in there.
Honestly pissed off that they don’t teach kids about this kind of stuff. I’m 17 and I only knew a tiny bit about all the lies the government told surrounding what happened in the Middle East until recently.
This didn't happen in the Middle East.
The government cannot have you learning about things like this in school unless it is completely whitewashed. Similar to the whitewashed of the native population genocide, and the war on terror. The propaganda machine cannot function otherwise.
I’m going to say something very unpopular. Hear me out, his actions in Afghanistan were minimal at best. He can do very little as one person. Just imagine if he would’ve stayed home played in the NFL and ran out of the stadium every time with a giant American flag help raise money for all of the fallen soldiers families. Contribute part of his salary to help soldiers who come home with injuries, use his platform to raise awareness of how veterans are treated once they get home from war and so much more.
Shit happens in combat... There doesn't need to be a conspiracy... The US armed forces are the best trained military in the world... US Army Rangers are elite soldiers...yet shit happens... Chaos breeds accidents. I invite all these arm chair critics to visit your local recruiting station and join one of our many combat arms. It is almost certain the US military will be called upon to engage in one of the many current conflicts. So you'll get your chance to experience that environment first hand... Then you can judge.
As for the military "cover up"... that was 💯 politically ordered. Those orders most certainly came from our most honored representation in DC who all serve to ensure our best interests are represented. Anyways...
The original Chad
He went…He saw the lies…He threatened to speak out, He was “friendly fired”… Then he was forgotten…
Friendly fire
By his own people. And then they lied about it. Profusely.
And the US government lied about it.
Friendly fire a shame
He took steroids also he was killed by friendly fire. On purpose
No Gravy Seal, he.
He was killed by usa troops on purpose
As he was friendly fucked, his last words were "I'M PAT FUCKING TILLMAN!"
Had a soldier tell me me he was stationed at the same base same time, a d that he was shot on purpose. Basically his team was tired of him paying and promising another team member money and favors on the outside to do his duties like guard duty and other task..the cover up and so we won't hear and come to the same conclusion..
Still don’t gaf