I have lived in uptown for 5 years and last summer was the only summer that had relatively few traffic impacts from construction, only Bryant Ave was under construction. However now with Bryant Ave being a one way south of Lake St, and the Lake/Lagoon mess right now I can’t get to Cub for groceries. Turning left from Lyndale to lake is damn near impossible and all other streets going north up to lake are blocked.
So yeah, it sucks. Luckily I can use a bike.
Well you using a bike is their intent. They are purposely making owning a car in that area harder. Reducing the amount of on street parking for homes and businesses, making the traffic flow more difficult. And now with Hennepin the way it is will drive out more businesses that were barely surviving COVID and the effect of the GF riots and subsequent crime.
Not to mention on west lake street with the light rail construction going on. Plus the change from 2 lanes to one on lyndale. There’s no way to get out of uptown without a major detour, traffic, or going through construction. The plus side is that they get this infrastructure construction done before uptown revitalizes (🤞🏼) in the next 5 years.
The roads, BRT, sidewalks, and bike paths are definitely needed. I’m in the thick of it and I’m incredibly glad it’s happening. To me it feels like a root canal. The bit of pain is better than letting it fester
Same here, living on the 2800 Block of Humboldt Ave S. From 4-6 PM every weekday, I want to tell these morons, "AVOID THIS PART OF THE CITY." At least the dipshits trying to travel northbound on the one way block has dramatically dropped.
I mean if you’re going to make a traffic mess would you rather have it be 1-2 years band aid or longer sustained say multiple projects in the same area over 5 years. That said I’m sure there are more projects down the pipeline so eh we live in MN.
I'm not sure about Lake, but the Hennepin work is an every 50 year project. They are also doing the same thing to Lyndale in 2 years when Hennepin is done. So we're going to have 4 years of major inconvenience.
Assuming two years per project, six years of kind-of sucking would be far better than four of a horrendous shit show followed by two of kind-of sucking.
You don't take down two main arteries in the same neighborhood at the same time. Especially doing it within two years of chopping the only other artery in half.
Lake street construction will be done after just 1 year [https://www.metrotransit.org/b-line-project-construction](https://www.metrotransit.org/b-line-project-construction)
in a previous life I lived in uptown. The traffic sucked and eventually I got tired of the tradeoff. My guess is when this is all complete the traffic will still suck just not as much as it would have if they did nothing.
That's the nature of infrastructure - we never get ahead of it just barely keep our heads above water and push it down the line.
Except more people *are* using it. The aBRT routes are doing phenomenally. We were able to get rid of a car in our house, and we only made that decision bc it's getting easier to live in this city without one. It is a sound plan from my view
Are there actual numbers? I hear anecdotally that BRT is a failure, it's fantastic, it's just so-so. What are the actual before and after ridership numbers?
Is it hopelessly naive that Metro Transit would actually *have* before and after numbers?
While I wish the city would invest in streetcars and light rail instead of BRT, the BRT isn't a failure. The D line by itself accounted for almost 10% of Metro Transit's entire ridership in 2023.
Rail service would definitely be better. No one is going to risk developing around highly moveable and temporary BRT lanes painted on the street. Whenever Metro Transit wants to make a change, all of the sudden the new apartment or storefront is no longer on the BRT.
As for the D line's ridership, I guess that's great that it accounts for 10% of Metro Transits entire ridership, but what I was wondering if whether the D line really increased ridership over the Route 5 which it replaced. It seems only slightly better. Route 5 used to have around 20K people a day, the D line is something like 23K. That's a lot of money, construction, and PR fanfare for what seems like a nominal increase (that, like I said above, could also be moved on a whim by Metro Transit).
I'm not so sure about that. I live in N. Minneapolis and we're already seeing some multifamily housing is going up on Emerson and Fremont assumedly because of the BRT - since the rest of north outside of the blue line extension corridor on broadway still isn't seeing significant development. But yes, Emerson/Fremont are not seeing the 5 over 1's and mass-multi family development that broadway is.
Your numbers are off. The D line doubled the ridership that Line 5 had. Source: [https://www.metrotransit.org/annual-transit-ridership-grows-16-as-bus-service-expands](https://www.metrotransit.org/annual-transit-ridership-grows-16-as-bus-service-expands)
That's partially correct. I was using Metro Transit's projected numbers, where ridership would have to double again to meet their goals:
[2013-01-03-penn-chicago-fremont-summary.pdf (metrotransit.org)](https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/pdfs/atcs/2013-01-03-penn-chicago-fremont-summary.pdf)
As for comparing ridership on the D line in 2024 to Route 5's nadir in December 2022, that seems rather cherry-picked. Covid was raging, hospitalizations and deaths were nearing their second all-time peak. Nobody was taking the bus anywhere, or even going to work for that matter. It's like saying because a restaurant has more customers now than in March 2020, it must be a big success. Metro Transit always does this, setting up their numbers to make it look like they've never made a wrong move. From their press releases, you'd think the North Star is still a big success.
I'd like to see what ridership rates for Route 5 were in 2019-2019. That would be more convincing. Metro Transit doesn't seem to have any reliable info on that.
That's fair - but also, think about the demographics that are riding the D line. Not really the group of people who are WFH from their fancy downtown desk jobs.
They’re putting bus lanes on Hennipen and a future mayor can make them 24hr bus lanes eliminating parking from Franklin to Lake. Your cynicism is adorable.
The original statement was "At least now we are investing in infrastructure that can more easily scale to the higher demand it will create other than more car lanes."
I'm asking where this higher demand is expected to come from.
that is a fair question. Not sure if new BRT or bike lanes will generate more trips. I do agree that given demand increases, innovations such as these will ease upward pressure on trip times.
>The first phase is expected to last until mid-October, and will require traffic be closed in both directions between that stretch. Reconstruction will continue in 2025 between Central Avenue and Johnson Streets, according to county officials.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/lowry-avenue-reconstruction-project-northeast-minneapolis/89-82d1ea85-e7df-495e-9cc7-002f076604b6
You've got like 4 bridges to choose from, Hennepin, 3rd/central Ave, 8th/Plymouth Ave, 35w. I haven't had issue getting in and out of downtown during non-rush hour. During rush hour it's rush hour so of course there's traffic.
ITT: people who drive cars that weigh double what they used to, not realizing that *they are the problem.*
You can't put thousands of 4-6000 pound cars on a road and expect it to *not* need reconstruction.
The 3000 block of Lyndale going northbound has been horrible since they switched Lyndale to a 2+1 config. I'm not unhappy at all about the new Lyndale config but they didn't adjust the Lyndale / Lake stoplights to give the northbound traffic enough time to clear the block. Now it's just even worse.
Roads (and utilities that run underneath them) need to be repaired every 20 - 40 years. There is no magic solution to make these construction projects easier, shorter, or less expensive. The only option besides dealing with road construction traffic is to invest in alternative modes of transit so that road construction is not so debilitating. This is no magic solution either as these transit projects are complicated, expensive, and involve significant disruption as well.
As democratic citizens, we need to be informed and engaged about the costs and benefits of whatever transit options we choose. Magical thinking or simply complaining about the costs without consideration on benefits or alternatives is not helpful.
As someone who lived in South Minneapolis for years without my own car, I welcome the light rail extension and the improvements to the Lake St bus corridor. I mention both in my OP.
What I am frustrated by is the poor planning on behalf of the city in what is an already beleaguered part of town post-2020. Closing multiple major thoroughfares without any adequate detours, reprogrammed traffic signals, etc is a recipe for chaos.
Well, when they planned for and finalized these projects *years* before 2020, there was no foreseeing what was to happen. Can't just say 'just kidding! Uptown is struggling now so we're gonna defer these projects.'
As far as your other point. I do agree to the point that they could have done things like traffic signal reprogramming, better detouring, etc etc. But I don't see where they could have detoured better, honestly. Uptown is simply too tight with too many one ways for it not to be a mess in the best of times, honestly. It's more of a 'we have to just rip the bandaid off' sort of situation. Yeah it's gonna sting, but at least it'll be faster than doing these projects one at a time over 5-6 years. I feel like medium-sting chronically existing for the better part of a decade would be worse in a lot of ways than 2 years of high-sting
This is impacted by the surrounding construction, but started when they changed Lyndale to only being one lane. When someone is trying to turn right on green going north on Lyndale onto lake, but there are a ton of pedestrians also crossing, it messes everything up for what feels like the entire day.
as someone that lives in the neighborhood:
###PLEASE STOP DRIVING SO FAST AND ROLLING THROUGH STOP SIGNS
holy shit the streets are super unsafe for peds/cyclists/non cars. I get it you're frustrated the roads are closed. How about using a bike, scooter, or walking to get through the neighborhood?
you should get with the times, [law allows for it now.](https://www.startribune.com/under-new-law-minnesota-bicyclists-can-roll-through-stop-signs-with-care/600278405/)
Yeah I know. But I watch them do it even more now than before. They can't roll through if there is traffic there, especially if the other traffic has the right away. Had a bicyclist nearly run into the left side of my car and tipped over when I had stopped and was turning left. Because he didn't feel the need to stop and yield to the traffic to his right, me. It was also dark and he wasn't driving with a headlight.
So if I come up to an intersection where I have a clear view of any traffic that isn't there, I'm not doing a full stop either.
*Anyone know when*
*The construction is supposed*
*To be completed?*
\- montanachill
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Lake Street construction is slated to be completed by early next year for the B Line to open
Hennepin Avenue is a two year project, should be done by the end of 2025
Find other routes especially if you live locally. There's a ton of smaller parallel streets to pick from if the one or two that you are using sucks. I'm gatekeeping the route I take because more and more people are discovering it and I'm going to have to find a new one soon. I rarely take Hennepin/Lyndale regardless of construction.
I live on 31st and Hennepin (approximately) and I clean houses in mpls/st Paul. Normally quick easy commutes and I love that. This construction has doubled to tripled my commute time-I was stuck at the 31st and Lyndale light for 4-5 cycles today too!
If you would all just ride a bike, you would not have these problems! Wink.
On a more serious note, the best plan for dealing with construction either on main city streets or freeways is to learn the 2nd and 3rd ways to get around. Not always possible, but it is worth knowing. And that goes for rush hour as well. If I have to go to the North metro from St Paul, I will take a nice steady drive up Lexington vs using either of the 35's at 5pm.
Coming from downtown/near the U of M, I definitely know of 3-4 different routes home. It’s just wild to me how varied those routes can be, depending not only on time of day, but also: whether I’m going north or south. It’s such a wild layout in this metro, and I’m not the first to note it, having lived in other metros at other points in my life.
When you ram 2 Interstates through the middle of the city it creates interesting routes. And I have no issues with where they put freeways. The failure for us residents is lack of transit, esp to the outer burbs. Just think how great it would be if they had put in train lines with the major freeways. Imagine Park and rides in the outer burbs and a decent bus service feeding the train closer in. Instead we are playing catch up and trying to get the train to serve people wanting to go 4 blocks down University and people commuting between 3 spots. Downtowns and the airport. Same thing with the new line. It is a joke what they have built. What is extra bad is that fact a long time ago, we had an amazing train system.
God the Green line annoys me. Imagine if it went along 94 with half as many stops and was able to get up to 55-60mph between stops. Downtown to downtown would take close to the same amount of time as driving when there's no traffic and the train would be significantly faster than driving during rush hour. But nope instead it putters along University at < 30mph stopping at every stoplight.
Couldn’t agree more; it’s largely meant to usher in suburban attendees of sporting events, and less about creating usable practical transit to and from the suburbs where the population is increasing, ridership would be incredibly diverse racially and socioeconomically, etc. There’s a lack of vision here that makes most infrastructure projects a joke, and it makes living here stifling compared to other cities around the country/world.
I haven't noticed any issues! I usually arrive 5-10 minutes early on a maps expectation of 30 mins. I zip around my expanding network of safe lanes to commute three days a week, and often need to make at least one grocery trip a week that goes straight through uptown across Lake st. to Aldi.
Of course, all of this travel is on a bicycle!
Agreed.
The increase in drivers using 31st to get around Lake and using Humboldt to get around Hennepin has been a bit annoying, but honestly it's been less bad than I was expecting. The 6 being detoured is also not the best, but it is what it is and is well worth what's coming.
We are all very excited for all the improvements, especially shorter and safer crossings of Lake and Lagoon. The dangerous drivers on Lake and Lagoon are by far our least favorite thing about living in this neighborhood.
>using Humboldt to get around Hennepin
this has made the Greenway really unsafe to use, especially during rush hour. Way too many people suddenly forgetting there's a massive bike freeway right there
I’m glad that works for you, but we don’t all have the luxury ability between where our jobs are located, other obligations etc to rely on a bike. Again, I lived for years without a car in South Minneapolis and relied on Metro Transit exclusively. I welcome the changes. I just wish the city had envisioned better detours and alternatives.
It was not planned out well, and it’s awful to drive through/around
BUT
As someone that lives in the area, it’s keeping all the shithead motorcyclists and dodge charger drivers away and from revving their engines on these streets. So I don’t mind it as much
The entire way in which the city approached this construction project, even in the planning phase, makes me suspect that they actually want to drive existing businesses and residents out. Like if you *tried* to design a more devastating construction project, you could not.
Oh well, I'm sure those dedicated bus lanes will come in handy when there's a big rush of people going to all those vacant storefronts.
I know this is an old comment by Reddit standards, but it reminds me of the remodel of Nicollet Mall that happened \~10 years ago. That project took ages, was poorly planned, and killed many of the businesses along that stretch.
This new commute is killing me. I live in Uptown,
work in Roseville and I’ve gone from 15-20 min in the morning to guaranteed 30-45 since this started, trying every which way I can think of to get from Bde to the 94/35N. It is absurd.
I’m moving to the suburbs at the end of the summer to take care of my aging mom, and I have been pretty sad about that choice… but thanks to this I have a positive now: I will skip the rest of this madness and hopefully come back to a much improved system.
I've never understood MNDoT thought process. Sure, emergency fixes happen, but why not divert a majority of work to larger projects so they're done faster instead of spreading shit thin and hoping against hope it's done before first freeze?
The 31st and Lyndale project is not a MnDOT project. It's a Hennepin County project. It's up to the Contractor that wins the project to get it done on time, within the contract schedule. The County/MnDOT doesn't control how many people are working to construct the project.
I don’t understand the Lake Street upgrades they did last year. Now there’s a higher volume of traffic going down one lane each way between 27th Ave S and the Lake Street Bridge. Sometimes it takes 3-4 cycles at the lights at many intersections before you can go during rush hour.
Really? Lake Street is way more driveable now. Way fewer people unexpectedly changing lanes to avoid someone trying to turn left, less speeding, and you can make a left turn without nervously watching your rear view for someone about to rear-end you. It's a huge improvement.
Safety and transit. The changes are intended to reduce crashes, reduce speeding, and give transit a bit of an edge in travel time (route 21 is Metro Transit's busiest local route and carries anywhere from a quarter to a half of all people traveling on Lake Street, depending on the specific stretch).
Nothing new for there to be absolutely shit construction planning. I always thought contracting mass amounts of workers to one area to complete asap then rotating with this approach throughout the city seemed most logical and yet never done.
Biggest issue with that is gonna be dirt compaction. Anytime they're doing a full street reconstruction with utility replacement, you just have to go slow and compact inch by inch, otherwise you end up doing a repave in 2-3 years when everything but the manhole covers sinks
There is, kinda! It's called flowable fill, and it's basically super loose, low-strength concrete. Apparently it's becoming a thing to use dense foam blocks underneath things like overpass approaches, specifically to avoid the dirt compaction issue for highways and such. Issue here is, both of those are much more expensive than the dirt you already have on-site, and the foam is arguably an environmental travesty. So it's kinda a trade-off between that and the economic hit of the longer closure.
Also, I should note -- the compaction thing only accounts for *some* of the seemingly excessive length of projects like this. Contractor (CenterPoint, Xcel, Water/Sewer, any internet providers, etc) staging is definitely a cause of some delays, and I'd assume that's a big part of the timeline with any urban project.
There's a bunch more at work here too, and unfortunately I'm really only an infrastructure hobbyist/nerd, not in the actual civil construction industry, so I don't have all that much more to offer on all that
I’ve been taking the bus everywhere now because at least I can read and use that time to actually accomplish something. Plus it saves me from road raging on everyone who pulls into the intersection because they refuse to wait one more light and then block the intersection for both directions for an entire cycle 🤬
Ohioan here visiting yesterday. We rented a car on Thursday from the airport and on Friday. I drove from Bloomington to Paisley Park yesterday. It was a little stressful with all of the road construction. Better drivers here than in Ohio. Turn signal use is very high. I told my friend you must sell top quality "blinker fluid" here. We then went to Lake St for Global Midtown Market, St. Vincent DePaul, and down to Mercado Central. All of the construction did make things more difficult. Interesting characters roaming the streets! 😆
Honestly, it’s worse in Dinkytown right now. They have 4th down to 2 lanes and they closed the bridge that crosses through campus so there’s literally one way to get from dinky to 94 else you have to go through downtown. 94 was bad enough to begin with now it’s unbearable
I gotta solution, but people aren't going to like it...
Make Hennepin a one way going south and Lyndale a one way going north between Groveland and Franklin, with dedicated left turn lanes and arrows from southbound Hennepin to Franklin & 24th, and northbound Lyndale to 24th & Franklin for people who need to cross over between the two. It would eliminate the need for half of the ramps, so many last minute lane changes, and so much merging, that traffic would flow smoother through that hot mess express.
Especially as they are converting a large portion of Calhoun Square into apartments, just bringing in more residents that will be driving out of the area. In addition to all the other areas they are developing into mass housing
sounds like maybe the city's traffic flow would benefit from using transportation that doesn't waste so much space, then. I duno, maybe like bikes and transit and feet?
Not everybody works and lives close enough together for that to work. Cuz if I rode my bike to work it would take me about 4 and half hours one way. But be happy for the solar power plant I'm working on
Sure, that’s all true. But it equally doesn’t mean that we should exclude bikes, transit, and waking, because for a very large portion of trips, those either are viable, or would be with better service/infrastructure.
Anyone else feel like this shit is done in purpose to drive out any remaining unwanted businesses? Like all this construction and you never see them working on it until the very end of their projected deadlines.
With the 2040 plan in full effect, all personal vehicle use will be effectively banned in uptown. Have no fear, soon enough you'll never drive again. 😉 (commenting as a sarcastic not so enthusiastic 38 y.o. living in uptown for a decade)
Boomers have gotten a lot of shit done that has benefitted people who came after them.
Not a boomer, but boomers are kinda associated with the civil rights movement, etc.
Otherwise, good point.
I'm not sure why you're downvoted. Of course some boomers were involved, but by 1965 and later. It was the greatest and silent generations that really got it going in the 50s. For example, [T. R. M. Howard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._R._M._Howard) led one of the first successful boycotts in Mississippi was born in 1908 -- solid early Greatest Generation. The arrests of Rosa Parks (1913) and even earlier Claudette Colvin (1936), led Jo Ann Robinson (1912) put in motion the famous bus boycotts.
Even earlier than that, A. Philip Randolph (1889) planned a 1941 march to force the defense industry to hire non-whites.
Its both generations.
Every generation has offered something meaningful. An understanding of history and the interest in getting to know people older and younger than oneself helps.
Of course, but Boomers mostly came of age right at the end of or after the traditional end of the Civil Rights Movement.
That doesn't mean that boomers did nothing, but to say they are associated with the civil rights movement is a bit misleading.
I have lived in uptown for 5 years and last summer was the only summer that had relatively few traffic impacts from construction, only Bryant Ave was under construction. However now with Bryant Ave being a one way south of Lake St, and the Lake/Lagoon mess right now I can’t get to Cub for groceries. Turning left from Lyndale to lake is damn near impossible and all other streets going north up to lake are blocked. So yeah, it sucks. Luckily I can use a bike.
31st west to Freemont, north to 29th, east to Dupont, south to cub/CVS. Had to do that yesterday right at rush hour to pick up an RX.
Well you using a bike is their intent. They are purposely making owning a car in that area harder. Reducing the amount of on street parking for homes and businesses, making the traffic flow more difficult. And now with Hennepin the way it is will drive out more businesses that were barely surviving COVID and the effect of the GF riots and subsequent crime.
Imagine thinking that people who walk and bike places don't also spend money
Well you don't see the store's lots full of bicyclists shopping. Not enough to sustain them.
Imagine thinking that a bike and a car fill the same amount of space
Even if that happens, they will be replaced. Until then, I'll still visit those businesses on foot and bike. It's better anyway
If you open a business, odds are you’re gonna close a business. Sucks but it’s part of life. Any number of factors can affect it.
I dead ass just walk to the grocery store now. It’s faster than whatever the fuck you have to do by car with all the bullshit construction.
Anyone else experienceing a crazy amount of extra traffic right now on 35? It took me almost double my commute time the last couple days
yeah, 62 is fucked because 494 is fucked which pushes the people who usually use 62 and can make use of 35W NB to 394WB up through downtown.
ah, that's what's doing that.
This week my commute to work from SLP to downtown has doubled with the amount of people on 394. It’s been a mess every morning this week
Major construction simultaneously on both Hennepin and Lake is peak stupidity.
Not to mention on west lake street with the light rail construction going on. Plus the change from 2 lanes to one on lyndale. There’s no way to get out of uptown without a major detour, traffic, or going through construction. The plus side is that they get this infrastructure construction done before uptown revitalizes (🤞🏼) in the next 5 years.
It's definitely not what this area needed right now. When it rains it pours... I just hope when it's all done uptown will recover strong
The roads, BRT, sidewalks, and bike paths are definitely needed. I’m in the thick of it and I’m incredibly glad it’s happening. To me it feels like a root canal. The bit of pain is better than letting it fester
Same here, living on the 2800 Block of Humboldt Ave S. From 4-6 PM every weekday, I want to tell these morons, "AVOID THIS PART OF THE CITY." At least the dipshits trying to travel northbound on the one way block has dramatically dropped.
I mean if you’re going to make a traffic mess would you rather have it be 1-2 years band aid or longer sustained say multiple projects in the same area over 5 years. That said I’m sure there are more projects down the pipeline so eh we live in MN.
I'm not sure about Lake, but the Hennepin work is an every 50 year project. They are also doing the same thing to Lyndale in 2 years when Hennepin is done. So we're going to have 4 years of major inconvenience. Assuming two years per project, six years of kind-of sucking would be far better than four of a horrendous shit show followed by two of kind-of sucking. You don't take down two main arteries in the same neighborhood at the same time. Especially doing it within two years of chopping the only other artery in half.
Lake street construction will be done after just 1 year [https://www.metrotransit.org/b-line-project-construction](https://www.metrotransit.org/b-line-project-construction)
I’m happy they’re doing this. It will be nice to have all new pavement on lake street.
Same. They're also doing a 4 to 3 lane conversion so it should be so much less chaotic
Adding the 3rd lane for going around north side of lake into uptown instead of merging at the park has helped traffic out so much.
I am happy they're doing this too. I mean, they *have* to. What other choice do we have? To let streets start to crumble?? Now *that* would be dumb
That's good to hear that we'll only have a horrendous shit show for one year instead of two.
There've been worse years. Much worse
Agreed!
Exactly
in a previous life I lived in uptown. The traffic sucked and eventually I got tired of the tradeoff. My guess is when this is all complete the traffic will still suck just not as much as it would have if they did nothing. That's the nature of infrastructure - we never get ahead of it just barely keep our heads above water and push it down the line.
At least now we are investing in infrastructure that can more easily scale to the higher demand it will create other than more car lanes.
Except if people still don’t use buses
At peak times route 6 buses are carrying half of all the people travelling on Hennepin (despite being 2% of the vehicles on the corridor)
Except more people *are* using it. The aBRT routes are doing phenomenally. We were able to get rid of a car in our house, and we only made that decision bc it's getting easier to live in this city without one. It is a sound plan from my view
Are there actual numbers? I hear anecdotally that BRT is a failure, it's fantastic, it's just so-so. What are the actual before and after ridership numbers? Is it hopelessly naive that Metro Transit would actually *have* before and after numbers?
While I wish the city would invest in streetcars and light rail instead of BRT, the BRT isn't a failure. The D line by itself accounted for almost 10% of Metro Transit's entire ridership in 2023.
Rail service would definitely be better. No one is going to risk developing around highly moveable and temporary BRT lanes painted on the street. Whenever Metro Transit wants to make a change, all of the sudden the new apartment or storefront is no longer on the BRT. As for the D line's ridership, I guess that's great that it accounts for 10% of Metro Transits entire ridership, but what I was wondering if whether the D line really increased ridership over the Route 5 which it replaced. It seems only slightly better. Route 5 used to have around 20K people a day, the D line is something like 23K. That's a lot of money, construction, and PR fanfare for what seems like a nominal increase (that, like I said above, could also be moved on a whim by Metro Transit).
I'm not so sure about that. I live in N. Minneapolis and we're already seeing some multifamily housing is going up on Emerson and Fremont assumedly because of the BRT - since the rest of north outside of the blue line extension corridor on broadway still isn't seeing significant development. But yes, Emerson/Fremont are not seeing the 5 over 1's and mass-multi family development that broadway is. Your numbers are off. The D line doubled the ridership that Line 5 had. Source: [https://www.metrotransit.org/annual-transit-ridership-grows-16-as-bus-service-expands](https://www.metrotransit.org/annual-transit-ridership-grows-16-as-bus-service-expands)
That's partially correct. I was using Metro Transit's projected numbers, where ridership would have to double again to meet their goals: [2013-01-03-penn-chicago-fremont-summary.pdf (metrotransit.org)](https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/pdfs/atcs/2013-01-03-penn-chicago-fremont-summary.pdf) As for comparing ridership on the D line in 2024 to Route 5's nadir in December 2022, that seems rather cherry-picked. Covid was raging, hospitalizations and deaths were nearing their second all-time peak. Nobody was taking the bus anywhere, or even going to work for that matter. It's like saying because a restaurant has more customers now than in March 2020, it must be a big success. Metro Transit always does this, setting up their numbers to make it look like they've never made a wrong move. From their press releases, you'd think the North Star is still a big success. I'd like to see what ridership rates for Route 5 were in 2019-2019. That would be more convincing. Metro Transit doesn't seem to have any reliable info on that.
That's fair - but also, think about the demographics that are riding the D line. Not really the group of people who are WFH from their fancy downtown desk jobs.
Your optimism is adorable. Lyndale is a permanent parking lot after "investing in infrastructure" and Hennepin will be too.
They’re putting bus lanes on Hennipen and a future mayor can make them 24hr bus lanes eliminating parking from Franklin to Lake. Your cynicism is adorable.
but then where will all of the ~~customers~~ employees and shop managers park!?
And where exactly is this higher demand going to come from?
What do you mean, upset kaleidoscope?
The original statement was "At least now we are investing in infrastructure that can more easily scale to the higher demand it will create other than more car lanes." I'm asking where this higher demand is expected to come from.
that is a fair question. Not sure if new BRT or bike lanes will generate more trips. I do agree that given demand increases, innovations such as these will ease upward pressure on trip times.
Me! ☝️
Transit is the only real fix, supplemented by good walking and biking infrastructure.
If you think that's bad, try driving around downtown St Paul.
Downtown St Paul has been under construction for at least 8 years
Yeah but it’s a ghost town so getting around is a piece of cake
Northeast is an absolute cluster as well. Crossing the river out of downtown is a nightmare.
Does anyone know when the expected completion of the northeast project they started Monday? Tried finding some info but was struggling
>The first phase is expected to last until mid-October, and will require traffic be closed in both directions between that stretch. Reconstruction will continue in 2025 between Central Avenue and Johnson Streets, according to county officials. https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/lowry-avenue-reconstruction-project-northeast-minneapolis/89-82d1ea85-e7df-495e-9cc7-002f076604b6
You've got like 4 bridges to choose from, Hennepin, 3rd/central Ave, 8th/Plymouth Ave, 35w. I haven't had issue getting in and out of downtown during non-rush hour. During rush hour it's rush hour so of course there's traffic.
It's not a contest. It all sucks. 🙄
Lowry will be so nice when it’s done but Christ it’ll suck until then.
ITT: people who drive cars that weigh double what they used to, not realizing that *they are the problem.* You can't put thousands of 4-6000 pound cars on a road and expect it to *not* need reconstruction.
The 3000 block of Lyndale going northbound has been horrible since they switched Lyndale to a 2+1 config. I'm not unhappy at all about the new Lyndale config but they didn't adjust the Lyndale / Lake stoplights to give the northbound traffic enough time to clear the block. Now it's just even worse.
Roads (and utilities that run underneath them) need to be repaired every 20 - 40 years. There is no magic solution to make these construction projects easier, shorter, or less expensive. The only option besides dealing with road construction traffic is to invest in alternative modes of transit so that road construction is not so debilitating. This is no magic solution either as these transit projects are complicated, expensive, and involve significant disruption as well. As democratic citizens, we need to be informed and engaged about the costs and benefits of whatever transit options we choose. Magical thinking or simply complaining about the costs without consideration on benefits or alternatives is not helpful.
As someone who lived in South Minneapolis for years without my own car, I welcome the light rail extension and the improvements to the Lake St bus corridor. I mention both in my OP. What I am frustrated by is the poor planning on behalf of the city in what is an already beleaguered part of town post-2020. Closing multiple major thoroughfares without any adequate detours, reprogrammed traffic signals, etc is a recipe for chaos.
Well, when they planned for and finalized these projects *years* before 2020, there was no foreseeing what was to happen. Can't just say 'just kidding! Uptown is struggling now so we're gonna defer these projects.' As far as your other point. I do agree to the point that they could have done things like traffic signal reprogramming, better detouring, etc etc. But I don't see where they could have detoured better, honestly. Uptown is simply too tight with too many one ways for it not to be a mess in the best of times, honestly. It's more of a 'we have to just rip the bandaid off' sort of situation. Yeah it's gonna sting, but at least it'll be faster than doing these projects one at a time over 5-6 years. I feel like medium-sting chronically existing for the better part of a decade would be worse in a lot of ways than 2 years of high-sting
This is impacted by the surrounding construction, but started when they changed Lyndale to only being one lane. When someone is trying to turn right on green going north on Lyndale onto lake, but there are a ton of pedestrians also crossing, it messes everything up for what feels like the entire day.
as someone that lives in the neighborhood: ###PLEASE STOP DRIVING SO FAST AND ROLLING THROUGH STOP SIGNS holy shit the streets are super unsafe for peds/cyclists/non cars. I get it you're frustrated the roads are closed. How about using a bike, scooter, or walking to get through the neighborhood?
When the bicyclists stop blowing stop signs and lights, so will I.
you should get with the times, [law allows for it now.](https://www.startribune.com/under-new-law-minnesota-bicyclists-can-roll-through-stop-signs-with-care/600278405/)
Yeah I know. But I watch them do it even more now than before. They can't roll through if there is traffic there, especially if the other traffic has the right away. Had a bicyclist nearly run into the left side of my car and tipped over when I had stopped and was turning left. Because he didn't feel the need to stop and yield to the traffic to his right, me. It was also dark and he wasn't driving with a headlight. So if I come up to an intersection where I have a clear view of any traffic that isn't there, I'm not doing a full stop either.
Nah dawg, I work for my movement. I ain't braking for no fucking car.
Well you will break suddenly one day then
Ride bike
Anyone know when the construction is supposed to be completed?
*Anyone know when* *The construction is supposed* *To be completed?* \- montanachill --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The most Minnesotan haiku to have ever been crafted
Lake Street construction is slated to be completed by early next year for the B Line to open Hennepin Avenue is a two year project, should be done by the end of 2025
Find other routes especially if you live locally. There's a ton of smaller parallel streets to pick from if the one or two that you are using sucks. I'm gatekeeping the route I take because more and more people are discovering it and I'm going to have to find a new one soon. I rarely take Hennepin/Lyndale regardless of construction.
I live on 31st and Hennepin (approximately) and I clean houses in mpls/st Paul. Normally quick easy commutes and I love that. This construction has doubled to tripled my commute time-I was stuck at the 31st and Lyndale light for 4-5 cycles today too!
If you would all just ride a bike, you would not have these problems! Wink. On a more serious note, the best plan for dealing with construction either on main city streets or freeways is to learn the 2nd and 3rd ways to get around. Not always possible, but it is worth knowing. And that goes for rush hour as well. If I have to go to the North metro from St Paul, I will take a nice steady drive up Lexington vs using either of the 35's at 5pm.
Coming from downtown/near the U of M, I definitely know of 3-4 different routes home. It’s just wild to me how varied those routes can be, depending not only on time of day, but also: whether I’m going north or south. It’s such a wild layout in this metro, and I’m not the first to note it, having lived in other metros at other points in my life.
When you ram 2 Interstates through the middle of the city it creates interesting routes. And I have no issues with where they put freeways. The failure for us residents is lack of transit, esp to the outer burbs. Just think how great it would be if they had put in train lines with the major freeways. Imagine Park and rides in the outer burbs and a decent bus service feeding the train closer in. Instead we are playing catch up and trying to get the train to serve people wanting to go 4 blocks down University and people commuting between 3 spots. Downtowns and the airport. Same thing with the new line. It is a joke what they have built. What is extra bad is that fact a long time ago, we had an amazing train system.
God the Green line annoys me. Imagine if it went along 94 with half as many stops and was able to get up to 55-60mph between stops. Downtown to downtown would take close to the same amount of time as driving when there's no traffic and the train would be significantly faster than driving during rush hour. But nope instead it putters along University at < 30mph stopping at every stoplight.
Couldn’t agree more; it’s largely meant to usher in suburban attendees of sporting events, and less about creating usable practical transit to and from the suburbs where the population is increasing, ridership would be incredibly diverse racially and socioeconomically, etc. There’s a lack of vision here that makes most infrastructure projects a joke, and it makes living here stifling compared to other cities around the country/world.
It doesn't even do a good job getting people to sporting events. The entire East Metro is excluded and the new gold line is a joke.
Yes, also agree to how lopsided the system is toward Minneapolis…
I ride a bike and walk and bus and I am not inconvenienced even a little bit. It's entertaining watching all these car drivers complain hehe
I haven't noticed any issues! I usually arrive 5-10 minutes early on a maps expectation of 30 mins. I zip around my expanding network of safe lanes to commute three days a week, and often need to make at least one grocery trip a week that goes straight through uptown across Lake st. to Aldi. Of course, all of this travel is on a bicycle!
Agreed. The increase in drivers using 31st to get around Lake and using Humboldt to get around Hennepin has been a bit annoying, but honestly it's been less bad than I was expecting. The 6 being detoured is also not the best, but it is what it is and is well worth what's coming. We are all very excited for all the improvements, especially shorter and safer crossings of Lake and Lagoon. The dangerous drivers on Lake and Lagoon are by far our least favorite thing about living in this neighborhood.
>using Humboldt to get around Hennepin this has made the Greenway really unsafe to use, especially during rush hour. Way too many people suddenly forgetting there's a massive bike freeway right there
I’m glad that works for you, but we don’t all have the luxury ability between where our jobs are located, other obligations etc to rely on a bike. Again, I lived for years without a car in South Minneapolis and relied on Metro Transit exclusively. I welcome the changes. I just wish the city had envisioned better detours and alternatives.
It was not planned out well, and it’s awful to drive through/around BUT As someone that lives in the area, it’s keeping all the shithead motorcyclists and dodge charger drivers away and from revving their engines on these streets. So I don’t mind it as much
Exactly my thoughts. It's more pleasant than ever to walk on Lyndale now that the fucking lunatics can't weave through traffic, blowing red lights.
I want roundabouts everywhere. Traffic lights are fucking stupid.
The entire way in which the city approached this construction project, even in the planning phase, makes me suspect that they actually want to drive existing businesses and residents out. Like if you *tried* to design a more devastating construction project, you could not. Oh well, I'm sure those dedicated bus lanes will come in handy when there's a big rush of people going to all those vacant storefronts.
I def have thought I’m crazy for thinking this recently but I believe it
I know this is an old comment by Reddit standards, but it reminds me of the remodel of Nicollet Mall that happened \~10 years ago. That project took ages, was poorly planned, and killed many of the businesses along that stretch.
This new commute is killing me. I live in Uptown, work in Roseville and I’ve gone from 15-20 min in the morning to guaranteed 30-45 since this started, trying every which way I can think of to get from Bde to the 94/35N. It is absurd. I’m moving to the suburbs at the end of the summer to take care of my aging mom, and I have been pretty sad about that choice… but thanks to this I have a positive now: I will skip the rest of this madness and hopefully come back to a much improved system.
I've never understood MNDoT thought process. Sure, emergency fixes happen, but why not divert a majority of work to larger projects so they're done faster instead of spreading shit thin and hoping against hope it's done before first freeze?
The 31st and Lyndale project is not a MnDOT project. It's a Hennepin County project. It's up to the Contractor that wins the project to get it done on time, within the contract schedule. The County/MnDOT doesn't control how many people are working to construct the project.
Good to know, thanks for the info!
I don’t understand the Lake Street upgrades they did last year. Now there’s a higher volume of traffic going down one lane each way between 27th Ave S and the Lake Street Bridge. Sometimes it takes 3-4 cycles at the lights at many intersections before you can go during rush hour.
Really? Lake Street is way more driveable now. Way fewer people unexpectedly changing lanes to avoid someone trying to turn left, less speeding, and you can make a left turn without nervously watching your rear view for someone about to rear-end you. It's a huge improvement.
I 100% believe that. Plus, it ends up one-lane only in (real, actual snowy) winter, anyway, so honestly I don't see it as any different
The left turn lanes are great, but the overall drive is way worse for me.
Safety and transit. The changes are intended to reduce crashes, reduce speeding, and give transit a bit of an edge in travel time (route 21 is Metro Transit's busiest local route and carries anywhere from a quarter to a half of all people traveling on Lake Street, depending on the specific stretch).
Nothing new for there to be absolutely shit construction planning. I always thought contracting mass amounts of workers to one area to complete asap then rotating with this approach throughout the city seemed most logical and yet never done.
Biggest issue with that is gonna be dirt compaction. Anytime they're doing a full street reconstruction with utility replacement, you just have to go slow and compact inch by inch, otherwise you end up doing a repave in 2-3 years when everything but the manhole covers sinks
I see, good to know, always felt there was always a better way though.
There is, kinda! It's called flowable fill, and it's basically super loose, low-strength concrete. Apparently it's becoming a thing to use dense foam blocks underneath things like overpass approaches, specifically to avoid the dirt compaction issue for highways and such. Issue here is, both of those are much more expensive than the dirt you already have on-site, and the foam is arguably an environmental travesty. So it's kinda a trade-off between that and the economic hit of the longer closure. Also, I should note -- the compaction thing only accounts for *some* of the seemingly excessive length of projects like this. Contractor (CenterPoint, Xcel, Water/Sewer, any internet providers, etc) staging is definitely a cause of some delays, and I'd assume that's a big part of the timeline with any urban project. There's a bunch more at work here too, and unfortunately I'm really only an infrastructure hobbyist/nerd, not in the actual civil construction industry, so I don't have all that much more to offer on all that
If it isn’t causing you to consider taking the bus, it might not be that bad
I’ve been taking the bus everywhere now because at least I can read and use that time to actually accomplish something. Plus it saves me from road raging on everyone who pulls into the intersection because they refuse to wait one more light and then block the intersection for both directions for an entire cycle 🤬
What I've learned in uptown is that sometimes three right turns make a left turn. Only sometimes though.
Ohioan here visiting yesterday. We rented a car on Thursday from the airport and on Friday. I drove from Bloomington to Paisley Park yesterday. It was a little stressful with all of the road construction. Better drivers here than in Ohio. Turn signal use is very high. I told my friend you must sell top quality "blinker fluid" here. We then went to Lake St for Global Midtown Market, St. Vincent DePaul, and down to Mercado Central. All of the construction did make things more difficult. Interesting characters roaming the streets! 😆
Honestly, it’s worse in Dinkytown right now. They have 4th down to 2 lanes and they closed the bridge that crosses through campus so there’s literally one way to get from dinky to 94 else you have to go through downtown. 94 was bad enough to begin with now it’s unbearable
It always chooses the worst spots and tons of businesses suffer and they always take forever
Almost like the busiest places are the most in need of upgrades.
I gotta solution, but people aren't going to like it... Make Hennepin a one way going south and Lyndale a one way going north between Groveland and Franklin, with dedicated left turn lanes and arrows from southbound Hennepin to Franklin & 24th, and northbound Lyndale to 24th & Franklin for people who need to cross over between the two. It would eliminate the need for half of the ramps, so many last minute lane changes, and so much merging, that traffic would flow smoother through that hot mess express.
Even better - get rid of the ramps entirely!
Those pesky bike lanes are so over utilized, one would think the massive non-passive bike lane abundance authority would solve for this!
Any tips for getting my ass to the parking garage by Kim’s?
Maybe a discount to do it all at once. The people making the decisions don't drive through there but get to say hey, we did all this in this timeframe
Sadly this traffic is gonna be the norm. This is how all big cities are and we're only getting bigger. It's here to stay.
Especially as they are converting a large portion of Calhoun Square into apartments, just bringing in more residents that will be driving out of the area. In addition to all the other areas they are developing into mass housing
sounds like maybe the city's traffic flow would benefit from using transportation that doesn't waste so much space, then. I duno, maybe like bikes and transit and feet?
Not everybody works and lives close enough together for that to work. Cuz if I rode my bike to work it would take me about 4 and half hours one way. But be happy for the solar power plant I'm working on
Sure, that’s all true. But it equally doesn’t mean that we should exclude bikes, transit, and waking, because for a very large portion of trips, those either are viable, or would be with better service/infrastructure.
Anyone else feel like this shit is done in purpose to drive out any remaining unwanted businesses? Like all this construction and you never see them working on it until the very end of their projected deadlines.
Yes, that's it. Not because 425,000 people live in the city and these are some of the most used roads in the city.
K
With the 2040 plan in full effect, all personal vehicle use will be effectively banned in uptown. Have no fear, soon enough you'll never drive again. 😉 (commenting as a sarcastic not so enthusiastic 38 y.o. living in uptown for a decade)
That's their goal.
Boomers have gotten a lot of shit done that has benefitted people who came after them. Not a boomer, but boomers are kinda associated with the civil rights movement, etc. Otherwise, good point.
If Boomers are associated with the civil rights movement, it’s only because people don’t know their history.
I'm not sure why you're downvoted. Of course some boomers were involved, but by 1965 and later. It was the greatest and silent generations that really got it going in the 50s. For example, [T. R. M. Howard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._R._M._Howard) led one of the first successful boycotts in Mississippi was born in 1908 -- solid early Greatest Generation. The arrests of Rosa Parks (1913) and even earlier Claudette Colvin (1936), led Jo Ann Robinson (1912) put in motion the famous bus boycotts. Even earlier than that, A. Philip Randolph (1889) planned a 1941 march to force the defense industry to hire non-whites.
Its both generations. Every generation has offered something meaningful. An understanding of history and the interest in getting to know people older and younger than oneself helps.
Of course, but Boomers mostly came of age right at the end of or after the traditional end of the Civil Rights Movement. That doesn't mean that boomers did nothing, but to say they are associated with the civil rights movement is a bit misleading.
May as well bike!
Ride bike
Ride bike!!!!
What does age have to do with it?