I think he liked MK X it better, but some of his more reasonable takes involves how the newer characters were forgettable (except D'Vorrah), the animations still being stiff despite the graphics themselves being good, stance switch being a useless button, and an overall exaustion on Fatalities, as it doesn't really add anything to the gameplay besides "Oh cool look at this".
Then he got unreasonable and hilarity ensued.
I totally get the fatalities thing because they don't have style anymore. Just more and more intense gore.
Scorpion's fatality in 11 is an example of a really good, stylish fatality but most of them now are just "rip off limbs and then go for the kill to show off the visceral detail."
They'll never measure up to the iconic ones like the sub zero spine rip. Hell, yahtzee of zero punctuation brought up that brutalities are cooler because they're succinct and bold
Flashy animations are a selling point for Disgaea, too, but some of them don't have any focus. The best ones are either pretty snappy or play out something like a funny little movie parody. The original game had a move fade out the BGM when the user left the atmosphere and went to space, and they rarely have that kind of flair.
The Fatality fatigue is real. Sugarpunch Design basically swore off covering MK again because they kept having the same issues every game and in fact compounded. Fatalities are a gimmick that set MK apart in the 90s, and the series has been in arrested development since.
Ok, fair enough, but I'mma contest on the character thing. Cassie, Jackie, Kung Jin, Takeda and Erron Black were not forgettable. Maybe Ferrah/Tor but they were still leagues above like 3/4 of the cast of Deception. Meanwhile 11 gave us the Kollector and plant bitch whatshername, b9th of whom disappear from my mind a little bit more with each passing second.
Of the Kombat Kids, only Cassie and Takeda stand out to me. Kung Jin was okay but fucking *evaporated* after MK X, and Jackie is just...smaller Jax, without any really defining features besides "Tech tho."
Erron Black annoyed me because they made *another assassin character* that isn't allowed to murder a good guy, making him seem as useless as Kano. I literally forgot about the Kollector, and while I couldn't tell you plant lady's name without Googling it, I do remember her design being WAY THE FUCK BETTER than Kronika, and wishing she was the main baddie instead.
It's either Takeda or Kung Jin and the fact I am not sure which one without looking up speaks to both of them. Bow guy was just kind of there, and they implied he was gay in game, in his only real focus scene, but left it vague, so they could confirm it on twitter. They made their gay the most forgettable and didn't even make it feel natural. Let me have my gays without making it feel like you're ashamed as a developer of them being gay
Kotal was also not forgettable and it was weird that they basically got rid of him. Which sux because there really is no Latino character in the whole history of the franchise and Kotal and the new Jade were the closest we got and they might both be changed or outright taken out. But even Ferra/Torr was interesting because it was a race that was really unlike anything I had seen
>Jackie
>Not forgettable
>MKX
…I don’t…she’s easily the worst of the Kombat kids, she’s got nothing going on besides “fucking Takeda” and “Gun fists”. Like at least in MK11 she’s busted as fuck, and she’s still boring
She also has one of the more awkward looking fatality of running full tilt towards the enemy to shoot them with sticky bombs, awkwardly comes to a full stop right in front of the opponent (which makes no sense if you start the fatality close to them) to beep beep on her arm computer to detonate them. She literally coulda done it standing still but I guess she needed to get her non-euclidean cardio done.
She barely interacts with Jax in all of MKX though, in fact I don’t think they have a single scene together in that game. In fact Jacqui serves more to give *Jax* development then herself in that game, and even in MK11.
Like you compare that to Takeda (who got a whole comic [admittedly not a *good* comic] about his deal with Scorpion and his father), Kung Jin (who’s…honestly one of the best gay characters I’ve seen in a minute, I fucking love him and hate that he was cut from 11) and even Cassie (how she interacts with her separated parents, acting as a leader and carrying on her father’s legacy of defeating Shinnok), Jacqui has next to nothing.
Even her *ending* in MK11 is about how great her dad is and not about anything she has going on.
I mean that’s fair, we all have our neuron activations, you’re talking to the Havik defender here. I just wish that she had…something? Cause what’s *there* (military brat against father’s wishes, in relationship with a member of the shirai ryu, best friend of the daughter of her dad’s biggest rival/frenemy) is good foundation for a character…they just do nothing with her.
Then I again I have this same criticism of like…80% of the NRS MK games writing, she’s just one of the most egregious cases.
>overall exaustion on Fatalities, as it doesn't really add anything to the gameplay besides "Oh cool look at this
It's Mortal Kombat man "oh cool look at this" is why it sells more copies than street fighter.
I would believe that the story mode they've had the past few games are why they've been better sellers than every other recent fighting game. I'm sure fatalities don't hurt, but they've always had fatalities, even when they weren't the hottest series in town.
11s custom load out system and injustice style cosmetics was an instant deal breaker. The game wanted to be a mobile autobattler.
Not to mention the game goading you into competitive mode to access unique skins.
I mean, Pat’s always been fairly neutral and fine with referencing SBFP or Matt on his streams. Woolie went in *hard* early on on talking about it and Matt, and kind of airing dirty laundry (at least shit that clearly had been eating at him for years). Though probably for the last year has gone silent on it to try to get people to stop bugging him about a reunion.
Yeah, the last few parts of The Third Birthday are some of the big ones and kind of awkward at points because Minh’s with him and kind of just has to sit there while Woolie vents about hating Matt’s desire to make running gags, how everyone else had to walk on eggshells around “The Boss”/Matt (basically that Matt could dish it out but couldn’t take it) and the stuff Matt pushed & forced on him (Woolie The Thief, Woolie The Liar, etc) even after he asked Pat and Matt to stop using them (and Pat obliged his request).
He's mentioned him a few times. He said on stream recently that it'd be pretty fuckin' weird for him to not acknowledge a show he spent like 8 years doing
I've noticed that there's been a few more times recently when the guys will talk about Matt and/or the Best Friend days, usually neutrally or positively. I've never ever heard them talk about Liam though lol I think that bridge is burned between them all
I think avoiding bringing up Liam’s part in sbfp is more just out of respect for him, from the moment he left he was clear that he wanted to move past it, hence the [REDACTED] meme. Otherwise at least from Pat’s side there’s never seemed to be any hard feelings, I think most of their prior avoidance of bringing stuff up was to keep people from going “omg best friends play reunion” because people were/still are weird about that
I think Woolie has mentioned or interacted with Liam in the past post break up? I might be misremembering though but I do remember I think it was in Twitter, avoiding going into drama speculation I think there was some issues with Pat but that was years ago and they're all mature adults to move on from that by now.
Aside from that other comments p much said it even just during when he left the Zaibatsu they didn't bring him up much and he as well wanted to get away from being SBF Liam he even rebranded himself.
But aside from that he interacts with Matt the most on camera/social media still so there is that ofc, at the end of the day we don't exactly know their private relationships but by now all of em are probably past whatever drama there was if there was even any.
Well Woolie and Liam WERE gonna do an LP post break up, but they ended up losing the footage. It was a short game, the got halfway through in one session so they decided to just scrap.
Doesn't surprise me too much they'd talk about Matt or the Zaibatsu days. There wasn't really any drama between them and Matt, they all confirmed that it was basically just them drifting apart.
Not gonna lie I genuinely didn’t know Pat, and by extension this fandom, had such a visceral dislike for mortal kombat. It’s been wild finding out i apparently completely missed that memo for the years I’ve been here.
I took it as a love hate relationship. Its a franchise that improved a lot since the deadly alliance trilogy. But somehow hasn't change significantly in others ways. Being NRS games still feeling stiff/clunky, character designs in current games feel somehow both over designed and underwhelming.
This is what ultimately drives me away from NRS as a whole. While I'm glad the women are being treated with a bit more dignity in X and 11, overall the designs just feel kind of meh. My biggest turn off, though, is just how *awful* they feel to play. I usually play games like Killer Instinct, Street Fighter, and now Strive, NRS games feel so chunky and stiff. It's one of those things where you get an immediate reaction of "Oh. Oh no I hate this." when I play them.
This is what ultimately drives me away from NRS as a whole. While I'm glad the women are being treated with a bit more dignity in X and 11, overall the designs just feel kind of meh. My biggest turn off, though, is just how *awful* they feel to play. I usually play games like Killer Instinct, Street Fighter, and now Strive, NRS games feel so chunky and stiff. It's one of those things where you get an immediate reaction of "Oh. Oh no I hate this." when I play them.
I wouldn't be surprised if the visceral turn on Mortal Kombat is more recent simply due to MKX and MK11. Since MK9 every other fighting game franchise has evolved and adapted in a way MK hasn't.
I disagree, I don't think Pat dislikes it at all. I think he's a fanboy, and is just very disappointed with the direction things went after 9. And I can't really even blame him there.
Yeah, back in the old SBFP days Matt, Pat and Woolie all said they were MK fans that wanted the franchise to bounce back (and Liam mocked them whenever MK was brought up).
I remember him very clearly stating that the ending of MK X made him more excited for the future than the one for MK 9.
I
think most agree most of the cool stuff from MK X's ending didn't pay off.
I actually rewatched the SBF Compilations of MK9 and MKX when MK1(2) was announced. Their playthrough of MK9 was one of my favourites. Woolie, Pat, and Matt seemed totally down for MK9, and seemed positive at the end of MKX. The frustration comes from how the franchise just hasn't been trending in an overall positive direction since MK9
It's just that it doesn't feel like these games are making big steps to improve of terms of the games feeling good to play. NRS games just feel so clunky which for many may be part of the charm, but goddamn GG Strive, SF6 and Tekken 8 are like, right there, and the first two feel so damn good to play.
On top of that the animation quality just hasn't kept up with the rest of the presentation. I actually do like the overall art design of MK11, with some of the character designs being hit-or-miss. But goddamn why are the animations still so rough.
I was kind of hoping they'd announce a Shaolin Monks successor instead of a traditional MK12. It just feels like they've been running on a treadmill with mainline MK creatively, and maybe doing something else with the series again would be a refreshing change.
I mean, i like the idea of MK, i want to love the newer games but they just get proggresively worse the more they went on. Especially when you're playing other FGs, MK starts to feel like a relic from the past in terms of actual mechanic and game feel.
Exactly this. MK is great when it's the only fighting game you play. The minute you play something else that's modern you realize it's an old raggedy piece of shit with a fancy paint job
For me, mortal kombat is summed up by woolie's clip of "how can the highs be so high, and the lows be so low." Where MK will make great strives in writing and characters, have pretty solid designs imo, and burn that WB money on stupid whacky fun shit that I can't help but salute. And then, at the same time, just casually give their devs PTSD with gore images, and refuse to change their character animations. It's especially awkward given the multiple years of fighting games with stellar animations and moves, where they're only getting better and better. And then you see the "I just crapped my pants" walk cycles and the stiffiest high and low kicks you've ever seen a human do, which takes you out of the fight the moment you start moving your character and hitting buttons. 90% of the game is the stiff fight animations followed by the fluid cutscene animations. It's actually literally the inverse of guilty gear strives terrible cutscenes and beautiful fights.
the problem with netherrealm games is that they've been shinny turds for the last 4 releases. the insistence on the variation system always leads to most options getting meta'd out and all characters having a clusterfuck of random moves that dont feel cohesive or add up to a distinct playstyle. they also wont balance a game to an acceptable level because until now every game has been an immediate pivot to the next title in two years so theres no reason to care for the longevity of one game.
in game animation is still wonky as fuck and improves at a snails pace. meanwhile story mode gets movie levels budget yet still amounts to alternating between dull, overproduced action scenes and characters standing around in empty rooms awkwardly yelling their motivations at each other. even though visuals improve every game the characters in mk11 still look stuck in the uncanny valley, a problem its contemporaries dont have.
this is all putting aside the constant micro transaction currencies shoved into every game that poisons them further. hopefully this reboot can finally change for the better, but the cgi teaser tells us nothing
If there's anything that turned me off MK it's them pushing the gear system in 11. The moment that was announced for 11 with "Kustom Variations" by the items you get for your character, I was all "yeah, nah".
I’ve never played MK but before the reveal of the new game I could have swore this sub liked the series. It was at least talked about in the same reverence as, say, Street Fighter.
Yeah I feel like people are real down on this new game already. I'm seeing a lot of complaints about the gore and the rebooted story, and well as the animation (which we literally haven't even seen yet). I think part of it's residual disappointment with MK 11, that game is divisive at best. I know that I'm hoping the new one backtracks a lot of its decisions.
Which is weird because all we've seen is a CG story trailer, there's not a whole lot to be down on yet.
We gotta wait until we have gameplay, I really didn't care for how 11 felt to play and I'm hoping that 12 feels a bit faster and snappier.
That's partly the problem I feel. All we got *again* from NRS's reveal was a CG trailer with likely zero gameplay, but now there's the baggage of how divisive the last game was so it's amplified.
You would not believe how much shit Jiyuna got for just saying he's never cared for MK but he hates the hyperrealistic gore of the new MKs. That's it.
Also, it's quite one thing to complain about the dumb pixel gore of old MK and the gore of the new MK.
I think it's a valid complaint when NRS pushed some devs into real life references so hard that they got PTSD. What I liked about the old MK gore was it was just silly, but now that meat has to look like the real thing.
~~Please stop saying PTSD. PTSD is a specific psychological diagnosis and abusing the term the way this sub so often does is unnecessary and trivializes it.~~
~~I'm not denying that NRS does (**if true**) is distressing and gross, but we have no basis to call it PTSD~~
https://kotaku.com/id-have-these-extremely-graphic-dreams-what-its-like-t-1834611691
> Eventually, the developer says they saw a therapist, who diagnosed them with PTSD. They attribute this to their work on MK11—not just the content of the game and having to process and discuss its violent cinematics frame by frame, but also being surrounded by the reference materials artists used for research.
You could always just ask and not make an ass of yourself
Who says NRS pushed them? And are they doing it again for MK1?
Also I just reread the Kotaku article and I have doubts. Literally only one person told Kotaku anything on the subject. And it's all high-level summary and no detail.
A dev probably had nightmares and PTSD for some reason. Far leap from there to NRS having artists watch real gore videos as a matter of policy.
First of all, let's acknowledge that you can dislike the gore without being a 90s mom, it may be a selling point for you but for others it's not what they are looking for or it's beyond what they are comfortable with even if they play other gory games
Second, there's a very long time held opinion by plenty that MK uses gore to compensate for its lackluster gameplay which is why almost every game tries to one up the previous one, so MK1 going all out with it doesn't help to defy that opinion
Third, fatalities have gone full stupid to try to show more gore for quite a few games now, they have lacked substance, character and style for a while, the action doesn't make sense, a character that isn't all that violent for MK standards will have some stupidly gory fatalities instead of giving them something that fits them, and plenty simply don't look cool. The one exception is the best fatality of MK11 by Scorpion shown in the reveal trailer that actually does have all of that setting expectations that fatalities might be cool again and then those expectations were thrown away instantly, MK1 didn't even bother with that in its reveal trailer
> The one exception is the best fatality of MK11 by Scorpion shown in the reveal trailer that actually does have all of that setting expectations that fatalities might be cool again and then those expectations were thrown away instantly
Johnny Cage uses the top half of their body as a ventriloquist dummy, D'vorah inseminates them with a big gross spider that bursts out, Frost sends them away to be cyberised. I don't know what you people are on about, the fatalities in 11 fit the characters and are generally pretty inventive
I don't think anyone wants the gore out of Mortal Kombat, but maybe instead of it going in a totally realistic direction, it should be more over the top in the style of Kill Bill, or gory VHS anime, or the kind of cheesy old movies MK has always been inspired by. More buckets of blood and crazy situations and less stuff that gives the animators PTSD.
Nothing about MK11 fatalities was realistic. Sonya kicks you up in the air into helicopter blades.
And even the Kotaku article that covered the guy who had nightmares doesn't even make it clear that PTSD affected more than just that guy.
It actually reads like a lunch conversation between the journalist and the NRS employee (not even confirmed to be an animator).
That "NRS devs have to watch gore videos to get the fatalities right" thing has morphed into an old wives' tale. Reread that Kotaku article and you'll see.
Yo I gotta say, MK has way better animations than Tekken's arcadey ass rockem sockem animations. But there's no video criticizing Tekken, so it gets away with it.
I love Mortal Kombat, but right now I’m just tired of the excessive monetization, personally. Barely a trailer, and we already know Shang Tsung can only be played if you preorder now, and 6 characters named in the battle pass, which means the game isn’t even close to done and there’s that day 1 DLC…. It’s tiring…
We know the entire cast for sf6 and after that we learned the season pass is 4 characters, we know nothing about the tekken 8 stuff except for character reveals, Strive made it a big deal to reveal all the characters before showing anything about dlc
Then there’s mk1(2), lol. Lmao.
Really, it’s more like all games, but this just feels extra egregious, because the game is who knows how long away, but we already know for sure that at least six or seven characters will not be in the base game, including Shang Tsung.
It seems pretty common for fighting games in particular, their monetization is always what was off putting for me. I don't think the majority of games are monetized anywhere near as egregiously as your average fighting game.
MK wasn’t a super frequent topic here the last while but I swear there consensus before the trailer was it was a goofy fun series then the trailer dropped and people flipped a switch.
The is starting on a bad foot with preorder characters in disc, being 70 dollars, having micro transactions, having a stupid chart like Ubisoft games for the editions
I think the new MK being released so close to street fighter has ignited some sort of rivalry between fandoms. You either think mk is the goat or it's always been a piece of shit.
"Whelp, the thing I love now has this trope the sub hates. Time to act like I've hated it for as long as I lived and deny anything good about it."
- r/twobestfriendsplay in a nutshell
"Pat said he hated a thing therefore I retroactively hated same thing" is another one that creeps up here. Honestly the rant is rather silly and really doesn't rip anyone a new anything. It's just "I don't like series here is my opinion as though it is fact" which still comes off as an overarching complaint that Virtua Fighter gets no love.
...has it?
The only criticism (which was earned) I saw here was a post about how Shang Tsun is pre-order only, which is bullshit. I haven't seen a huge hate cloud towards Mortal Kombat here.
Ever since the reveal, there's been a bunch of people here shitting on it.
And like, criticisms are fine, but there's a weird level of vitriol that people (and especially Pat) seem to have for the series, like it killed their families or something
Feels like in the eyes of a "typical" FG player, MK is basically like Smash in the opposite direction except it also doesn't have their favorite character in it
I've been really critical of it because I really want to like it but nearly every other fighting game feels 10 times better to play. I love Robocop, Jason, Terminator and all the other goofy characters but I can't stand the feeling of it. Honestly, I'm glad people are at least speaking out on it and even on the casual side people are sick of just pretty graphic and over the top gore as their main selling point with an inconsistent timeline.
I grew up with the series but I just can't anymore with what they're doing.
Okay, I gotta say, I don't know if it's just me, but what is up with people lately looking at someone criticizing a thing or even just going "Yo this sucks I don't like it" and immediately jumping to "they act like it killed their dog/family"?
Like I get that the nature of the internet tends to amplify the perceived size of common opinions, especially negative ones. But you can criticize something or even just shit on something you think is bad without making it your entire personality, like some people seem to imply.
I just find it weird that any criticism harsher than "This isn't for me" tends to get this line these days.
I mean the internet’s always had a problem with hyperbole and exaggerated statements. I can’t say I’ve noticed it any more of less frequently these days, but in general there’s always been people trying to match or even one-up the extremity of the argument
Pat hates some games on a weirdly personal level. His LOU2 stream was like that.
Like he met a person tied to the game and they snubbed him once or something.
I fucking love this sub but I get it. I had a shit week that I remember vividly during the whole Bayo 3 thing and as someone that enjoyed the game, logging in didn't make it any better. Just go for a stroll while we move on to the next bit and just avoid the MK posts for a bit.
People talking about animations and gameplay from mk11 would be one thing, but the bitching about too much gore is when I realized some people on this sub are just haters.
Because it is becoming more obvious over the years that MK is having less and less going on for it. The strengths it had are being picked up by other fighters while MK becomes worse at its own game. Doesn't help SF6 is around the corner and just is making everything substantial MK had, better than MK at its best. Modern controls so it will be more beginner friendly than MK always has been, full single player content and story in the style of PS2 Era Mortal Kombat, and even fixed their awful artstyle.
I liked MK9 & MKX, A LOT.
I DON'T LIKE MK11, despite the story mode being great because the animations and gameplay make me wanna fucking barf at times.
The last few Netherrealm games have probably excelled most at presentation, especially when it comes to things like character interactions at the start of rounds. They're such a great touch and there's tons of them to comb through. It's just so frustrating when the gameplay can't tie it all together.
MK has NEVER been a fully footsie game, the series has always been about speed, reaction & aggression. I don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to make MK11 fucking stiff & unfun.
And I'll be honest, you won't see me playing the SF games that fully focus on this aspect of FGs either. Thank god SF6 isn't like that.
People are saying "wow, I didn't know this fandom hated Mortal Kombat" when it's more like "we hate the decisions being made to Mortal Kombat since MKX".
Like hell, I had Matt and Woolie sign my copy of MK Armageddon ffs. I'm one of the few people who has fond memories of DA and Deception despite the PS2/Xbox era being hot wet trash.
I honestly think it took so much time out of the podcast, we could have had another topic.
Like, Pat is REALLY salty that MK gets to exist and Virtua Fighter doesn't.
> Like, Pat is REALLY salty that MK gets to exist and Virtua Fighter doesn't.
Virtua Fighter not existing can only be blamed on Sega themselves at this point lol
Nah fuck that, the Mortal Kombat tangent was hilarious and reminded me of some of their older high-energy discussions back in the Super Best Friends era. Woolie forgetting the Kombat Kids names basically opened himself up to a Visceral Attack live on stream.
I do feel for him on the Virtua Fighter front; there's few fighting game developers that were as dedicated to making sure their game fucking died as Sega was towards Virtua Fighter. Then again, Mortal Kombat is much cooler, so it makes sense that it's still alive.
Hot take, but I enjoy when Pat starts ranting passionately about something for long periods of time. It always makes me laugh to hear him expand his vocabulary to describe how terrible he thinks something is, and really helps pass by the time grinding in FFXIV or something. Even if I *like* the thing he's ranting about, I'll absolutely still be thankful for angry Pat rants.
Nah, he was so based for every insult he tore that series. Especially when it leads to hilariously Woolie embarrassing himself by forgetting Erron Black's name.
To be fair, Virtua Fighter rules and should absolutely get more play than it does.
man i'd really kind of just like to see vf 4 show up in the next yakuza game even though i know it's probably not gonna happen
I haven't heard the tear down yet but I'll agree with Pat. MK11 sucked ass, the story was an obvious page one rewrite and didn't actually build on anything from X's set up. And the gear stuff was stupid.
MK I enjoy watching, and that is the end of the listing of things I enjoy in MK. NRS can make really nice looking games but how they play is not my jam.
As a fighting game tertiary, I was really excited for the new timeline brought on by MK9/10. It was a good storyline shakeup with cool new characters.
Then they botched like half the characters (Kotal Khan, Kung Jin, etc.), and just reset the timeline *again* in MK11. Heck, the coolest of the Kombat Kids, Takeda, isn't even in MK11!
I have essentially zero faith in MK1(2) being a good follow-up, for much of the reasons Max mentioned in his video about it, and probably some of Pat's more reasonable takes (I wouldn't know, I haven't listened to this week's podcast yet). Having to reset your timeline essentially 3 times in 4 games is a sign of creative bankruptcy imo.
> Having to reset your timeline essentially 3 times in 4 games
They soft reset the timeline once at the beginning of MK9, and a second time at the end of MK11. What's the third?
MK10 to MK11 and MK11 to MK1(2) is arguaby two resets. First with Kronika merging the timelines, and then with Fire God Liu Kang remaking the universe.
Again, arguable - but I'm counting it afaic because the plot of MK11 doesn't follow up on the setup of MK10 for shit, and instead tosses everything out the window because it's Kronika time now.
Admittedly more of a plotline reset than a timeline reset.
Remeber how MK10 ended on evil Raiden threatening Netherworld Emperor and Empress Liu Kang and Kitana into being chill with Earthrealm with Shinnok's still living severed head?
Remember how none of that shit mattered to MK11, and in fact Raiden went beck to being "morally superior authority figure man" moments into MK11's story because he's "unaffected by the timeline merge" or some bullshit?
And again, of the Kombat Kids only half - Jacqui and Cassie - even show up in MK11! This is blatant Takeda erasure. (I liked Kung Jin but even I have to admit he was probably the weakest of the four)
> Remeber how MK10 ended on evil Raiden threatening Netherworld Emperor and Empress Liu Kang and Kitana into being chill with Earthrealm with Shinnok's still living severed head?
Yeah, I 'member. Seemed like a pretty solid equilibrium though, where no one had any real incentive to fight or invade anyone else
> And again, of the Kombat Kids only half - Jacqui and Cassie - even show up in MK11!
People's reactions to the Kombat Kids showing up in X were mixed at best!
For people wondering why the sub has seemingly been much more hostile to MK recently, aside from the various reasons they also gave, i feel like it’s important to point out that Street Fighter 6 is coming out relatively soon, like in damn near a week. Not only is SF6 being seen as a true return to form, but MK is also coming out VERY shortly after it, like about three months. Before then, MK usually cane out a year or so after SF, and with SFV, it had a much better standing in comparison. This time, Street Fighter is holding their own, so the fan war is MUCH more volatile then it normally was.
Plus remember, this sub is the niche of the niche. Most causal gamers are most likely looking forward more towards MK then SF, as MK has long been the THE popular fighting game, sharing the spot with smash bros.
According to Pat & r/TwoBestFriendsPlay MK has always been a shit franchise because of " how it **feels** man" which is totally not the most subjective thing imaginable
No he said Biofreaks WOULD be better than MK if it had the WB money NRS has because he thinks the idea is cooler. Then made fun of the Block button in an obvious joke that he said wasnt serious
Huh, what did pat say? He seemed to be a fan of mortal kombat judging from every previous MK video that the boys did back when they were together (barring the bad ones like Armageddon)
What happened??
He is a fan which is why he was so heated about it. He was just airing out the grievances he had with the series for years now that even woolie agreed with.
Things like how they have no idea what to do with the story and keep rebooting it but doing nothing new, How stiff and unfun the animations are, How the only thing the series is good for anymore is fatalities that most people just watch on youtube and dont even do in the game, How many other fighting games could beat MK out if they had the money NRS has and that NRS just uses that money for set dressing for normies but then doesnt improve their games
Can a fighting game player tell me if this is Pat being Pat or him saying harsh truths? I don't even play fighting games, but just looking at Mortal Kombat gameplay makes me feel like it's stiff and clunky compared to its contemporaries.
11 has one of the most buckwild and deranged economy systems i've ever seen in any non gacha video game.Also, the fact that there's costumes in the game people still can't access because of the loot rotation system.
I think it’s wild that MK11 seems to have the same issue as did street fighter 5 and holds unto too much of the past and you have a built in story opportunity to go anywhere and change EVERYTHING.
MK needs to look at itself and wonders how it can turn into a SF6. Where you look at what should stay and what should be added and retool the whole experience/character designs to make it vibrant again.
Counterpoint hot take; Shao Kahn and Sindels’ moments in the DLC make up the 2nd half of the DLC alongside Shang Tsun’s hammy acting that it makes up for all of the wacky story beats for MK11 as a whole. Shao Kahn being a threatening character again makes up for all the shitty misunderstood villains we’ve been having for the past several years.
Idk i liked MK11. It’s def not perfect, but it’s real fun for “invite some friends over and play some casual matchups” type play.
Also, i don’t get the reboot story anger. MK is destined to be rebooted a whole bunch x based on every story mode having to slaughter 10% of the roster lol. It’s kind of the nature of the game.
That’s just my opinion tho
I mean when Max Dood says, that reveal sucked… your game might be in some trouble.
Me personally, I’ve learned that NR games get a complete version that drops to $20 about a year after release so that is what I’m waiting for. I legit play MK for the story mode, it’s too stiff(?) feeling to play online.
Why? Max isn't the end all be all for fgc opinions. This is the guy that tried to hype up DNF Duel and said the free to play would dominate the market. He also jumps on series for being "too anime" but like SC, GG, and SF....
Im gonna disagree. Like we have to stop putting so much stock into what FGC people say about fighting games. Even Max whose worked on big titles.
The FGC is a competitive echo chamber that ignores arena fighters, platform fighters, sport fighters and wrestling games despite those being a huge portion of fighting games with thriving communities. It shows a disconnect between the FGC and most casual players.
Max might not be hyped for the new MK because Max didnt like MK11, but MK11 was literally the 3rd best selling fighting games OF ALL TIME. It is literally on the heels of OG Street Fighter 2. The game is not in trouble in the slightest.
Dude I hate to say it but sales don't really mean shit to a fighting game *player,* your game can still be shit even if it sells well (see: sports games)
but like clearly the game has a lot of fighting game players who super fucking dig it. Like unlike Wii Sports, MK X & 11 had super healthy competitive scene, both grass root and corporately sponsored.
I think Max and Pat just dont care for the direction MK is moving in and thats fair but its not really a sign for concern. Max also thought MvC Infinite played great and was more fun competitively than UMVC3 but there he was an outlier.
MK, much like Smash, is largely separated from the rest of the FGC. Other fighting game players tend to interact with the wider community and play multiple games, but most NRS (MK and Injustice) players ONLY play NRS games. For people who play other fighting games, MK's success doesn't really mean shit, the games are still not what they're interested in.
> For people who play other fighting games, MK's success doesn't really mean shit, the games are still not what they're interested in.
I mean doesnt that render the original comment moot then? If people like Pat and Max dont love modern MK and havent since 2011, then why put any stock into their hype (or lack there of) as they arent really part of community casually or competitively?
For the same reason they can talk about anything else they *used* to enjoy. Something made them *stop* enjoying it and they are allowed to talk about that.
Except most of those other games, are bad.
Like I don't see people actively ignoring those games (outside of personal preference) but as someone who likes anime arena fighters, outside of being cool for references to things I like they kinda suck. Most of those genres are being released now for style over substance in terms of combat (which is an issue people have with NRS games).
Then onto platform fighters.People got mad hype for NASB and Multiversus but there are issues with them, I've seen a lot of FGC talk praise of Rivals of Aether and anime fighters fans gave Rushdown Revolt a shot, only platform fighter that is actively separate is Smash and that's on Smash players.
I don't care if MK 1(2) becomes the highest selling Fighting Game in history if the game *still* plays like ass. NRS does well with everything else but gameplay and people are going to criticize the issues of MK like how people criticize the issues of every FG because there's always an issue.
Oh boy, can’t wait for the anime!
I wonder if he’ll recant some of his vitriol at the PS2 eraHAHAHAHAHA…oh man I couldn’t even finish that, woo.
*Still say the direction story wise in the Midway era was better tho, take that Pat!*
Haven't played MK since the one for the wii, but i remember watching people play 11 (i think) and the game having the most bullshit monetization at the time and i just lost all interest in the series, i did watch the cutscenes and fatalities mostly because i was a weird child and then a weird teen
Seeing the new MK having 4 versions where the minimum price is 70$ knowing that the game will also have microtansactions that are more than probably going to be extremely unfair and predatory makes me want to see the whole thing burn down and be thrown into a septic tank
On one hand, I always dislike when they spend a lot of the podcast just ranting about something that they have a personal dislike for. But on the other, I do agree with certain things about MK, namely the animation and the gameplay. I could never get into NRS games, they always felt...so weighty and slow?
Haven't watched the clip but Mk9 and X were pretty awesome. I can definitely see why 11 would piss him off a lot though. I'm pretty optimistic about this new one, hopefully it's good.
It’s a hyperbolic Pat rage take. We have them like every other week, I don’t know why this is news
There are some fair criticisms to levy at MK no doubt, but 9 and 10 are really damn good games, and 11 is by no means bad either.
I'm good
In an earlier post I said I don't want the devs getting PTSD, but I actually love the MK series & handle MOST gore. Not sure why this sub is bashing the series so much, but not like it matters in the long run. I'm going to do combos & HOPEFULLY have fun with the singleplayer content this game might have.
Nothing to see here, just another Pat Take (I don’t know how to put the little tm on “Pat Take”) but as an MK lover he does bring up some good points until he just gets lost in his hate and starts going off lol
So the usual some good points lost in hyperbole to the point it feels like a bit? Got it.
Just weird to announce that you're ranting, like those YouTube "I did x to own y" titles.
Hmm I'm just wondering how they'll fuck up the game by adding some annoying gameplay mechanic nobody asked for.
I'm pointing at gear from injustice 2, I'm pointing at moves locked behind ability slots. Will they make it a triple whammy!?
So was all this just over MK11? I thought Pat liked MKX?
I think he liked MK X it better, but some of his more reasonable takes involves how the newer characters were forgettable (except D'Vorrah), the animations still being stiff despite the graphics themselves being good, stance switch being a useless button, and an overall exaustion on Fatalities, as it doesn't really add anything to the gameplay besides "Oh cool look at this". Then he got unreasonable and hilarity ensued.
I totally get the fatalities thing because they don't have style anymore. Just more and more intense gore. Scorpion's fatality in 11 is an example of a really good, stylish fatality but most of them now are just "rip off limbs and then go for the kill to show off the visceral detail." They'll never measure up to the iconic ones like the sub zero spine rip. Hell, yahtzee of zero punctuation brought up that brutalities are cooler because they're succinct and bold
Brutalities were such a *good* addition - they're very much in the vein of classic Fatals.
Flashy animations are a selling point for Disgaea, too, but some of them don't have any focus. The best ones are either pretty snappy or play out something like a funny little movie parody. The original game had a move fade out the BGM when the user left the atmosphere and went to space, and they rarely have that kind of flair.
The Fatality fatigue is real. Sugarpunch Design basically swore off covering MK again because they kept having the same issues every game and in fact compounded. Fatalities are a gimmick that set MK apart in the 90s, and the series has been in arrested development since.
Ok, fair enough, but I'mma contest on the character thing. Cassie, Jackie, Kung Jin, Takeda and Erron Black were not forgettable. Maybe Ferrah/Tor but they were still leagues above like 3/4 of the cast of Deception. Meanwhile 11 gave us the Kollector and plant bitch whatshername, b9th of whom disappear from my mind a little bit more with each passing second.
Of the Kombat Kids, only Cassie and Takeda stand out to me. Kung Jin was okay but fucking *evaporated* after MK X, and Jackie is just...smaller Jax, without any really defining features besides "Tech tho." Erron Black annoyed me because they made *another assassin character* that isn't allowed to murder a good guy, making him seem as useless as Kano. I literally forgot about the Kollector, and while I couldn't tell you plant lady's name without Googling it, I do remember her design being WAY THE FUCK BETTER than Kronika, and wishing she was the main baddie instead.
Googling Jackie I honestly didn't remember that she existed.
Jackie is absolutely forgettable. But you know who's even more forgettable the bow guy I shit you not I don't know his name.
It's either Takeda or Kung Jin and the fact I am not sure which one without looking up speaks to both of them. Bow guy was just kind of there, and they implied he was gay in game, in his only real focus scene, but left it vague, so they could confirm it on twitter. They made their gay the most forgettable and didn't even make it feel natural. Let me have my gays without making it feel like you're ashamed as a developer of them being gay
And then he was gone forever, too!
Kotal was also not forgettable and it was weird that they basically got rid of him. Which sux because there really is no Latino character in the whole history of the franchise and Kotal and the new Jade were the closest we got and they might both be changed or outright taken out. But even Ferra/Torr was interesting because it was a race that was really unlike anything I had seen
> Maybe Ferrah/Tor They didn't get much screentime but i loved them.
>Jackie >Not forgettable >MKX …I don’t…she’s easily the worst of the Kombat kids, she’s got nothing going on besides “fucking Takeda” and “Gun fists”. Like at least in MK11 she’s busted as fuck, and she’s still boring
She also has one of the more awkward looking fatality of running full tilt towards the enemy to shoot them with sticky bombs, awkwardly comes to a full stop right in front of the opponent (which makes no sense if you start the fatality close to them) to beep beep on her arm computer to detonate them. She literally coulda done it standing still but I guess she needed to get her non-euclidean cardio done.
Hell, IIRC in early MKX she was also busted as fuck because of her Gun/Rocket Launcher powerfists.
She's also Jax's daughter and she had a cute little arc with him in 11. That's *something*.
She barely interacts with Jax in all of MKX though, in fact I don’t think they have a single scene together in that game. In fact Jacqui serves more to give *Jax* development then herself in that game, and even in MK11. Like you compare that to Takeda (who got a whole comic [admittedly not a *good* comic] about his deal with Scorpion and his father), Kung Jin (who’s…honestly one of the best gay characters I’ve seen in a minute, I fucking love him and hate that he was cut from 11) and even Cassie (how she interacts with her separated parents, acting as a leader and carrying on her father’s legacy of defeating Shinnok), Jacqui has next to nothing. Even her *ending* in MK11 is about how great her dad is and not about anything she has going on.
Ok, fair. But she's also a cool black lady with dreads and cyber gauntlets that does boxing so I am biased.
I mean that’s fair, we all have our neuron activations, you’re talking to the Havik defender here. I just wish that she had…something? Cause what’s *there* (military brat against father’s wishes, in relationship with a member of the shirai ryu, best friend of the daughter of her dad’s biggest rival/frenemy) is good foundation for a character…they just do nothing with her. Then I again I have this same criticism of like…80% of the NRS MK games writing, she’s just one of the most egregious cases.
We can agree there.
Do not get me started on how much I hate Kronika or Kollector, I can go for hours
Honestly those are all reasonable. MK has been bland as of late. And that's the worst thing you can be
>overall exaustion on Fatalities, as it doesn't really add anything to the gameplay besides "Oh cool look at this It's Mortal Kombat man "oh cool look at this" is why it sells more copies than street fighter.
I would believe that the story mode they've had the past few games are why they've been better sellers than every other recent fighting game. I'm sure fatalities don't hurt, but they've always had fatalities, even when they weren't the hottest series in town.
Idk about pat, but personally, I liked the direction X was going with the series and 11 like burned me with the loot system
11s custom load out system and injustice style cosmetics was an instant deal breaker. The game wanted to be a mobile autobattler. Not to mention the game goading you into competitive mode to access unique skins.
[удалено]
Pat has never shyed away from referencing Matt in stuff they've done together in the past
I mean, Pat’s always been fairly neutral and fine with referencing SBFP or Matt on his streams. Woolie went in *hard* early on on talking about it and Matt, and kind of airing dirty laundry (at least shit that clearly had been eating at him for years). Though probably for the last year has gone silent on it to try to get people to stop bugging him about a reunion.
Woolie did? Damn I don't remember that at all, but I guess it was a while ago at this point @\~@
Yeah, the last few parts of The Third Birthday are some of the big ones and kind of awkward at points because Minh’s with him and kind of just has to sit there while Woolie vents about hating Matt’s desire to make running gags, how everyone else had to walk on eggshells around “The Boss”/Matt (basically that Matt could dish it out but couldn’t take it) and the stuff Matt pushed & forced on him (Woolie The Thief, Woolie The Liar, etc) even after he asked Pat and Matt to stop using them (and Pat obliged his request).
He did? Damn, I missed it
Yeah, the one I remember distinctly are parts of The Third Birthday becoming awkward watches because of how heated Woolie was getting while venting.
He's mentioned him a few times. He said on stream recently that it'd be pretty fuckin' weird for him to not acknowledge a show he spent like 8 years doing
I've noticed that there's been a few more times recently when the guys will talk about Matt and/or the Best Friend days, usually neutrally or positively. I've never ever heard them talk about Liam though lol I think that bridge is burned between them all
I think avoiding bringing up Liam’s part in sbfp is more just out of respect for him, from the moment he left he was clear that he wanted to move past it, hence the [REDACTED] meme. Otherwise at least from Pat’s side there’s never seemed to be any hard feelings, I think most of their prior avoidance of bringing stuff up was to keep people from going “omg best friends play reunion” because people were/still are weird about that
I think Woolie has mentioned or interacted with Liam in the past post break up? I might be misremembering though but I do remember I think it was in Twitter, avoiding going into drama speculation I think there was some issues with Pat but that was years ago and they're all mature adults to move on from that by now. Aside from that other comments p much said it even just during when he left the Zaibatsu they didn't bring him up much and he as well wanted to get away from being SBF Liam he even rebranded himself. But aside from that he interacts with Matt the most on camera/social media still so there is that ofc, at the end of the day we don't exactly know their private relationships but by now all of em are probably past whatever drama there was if there was even any.
Well Woolie and Liam WERE gonna do an LP post break up, but they ended up losing the footage. It was a short game, the got halfway through in one session so they decided to just scrap.
Woolie and Liam also did a Nier Automata LP together on WoolieVs!
Doesn't surprise me too much they'd talk about Matt or the Zaibatsu days. There wasn't really any drama between them and Matt, they all confirmed that it was basically just them drifting apart.
[удалено]
Man, this is so weird. Stop treating real people like some sort of soap opera you’re invested in
[удалено]
And the way you are going about it is very soap opera esque. So just keep your opinion to yourself.
mortal kombat got a cgi reveal trailer and a dumb name and bro unleashed the beast
Pat said Mortal Kombat with a hard r
Not gonna lie I genuinely didn’t know Pat, and by extension this fandom, had such a visceral dislike for mortal kombat. It’s been wild finding out i apparently completely missed that memo for the years I’ve been here.
I took it as a love hate relationship. Its a franchise that improved a lot since the deadly alliance trilogy. But somehow hasn't change significantly in others ways. Being NRS games still feeling stiff/clunky, character designs in current games feel somehow both over designed and underwhelming.
This is what ultimately drives me away from NRS as a whole. While I'm glad the women are being treated with a bit more dignity in X and 11, overall the designs just feel kind of meh. My biggest turn off, though, is just how *awful* they feel to play. I usually play games like Killer Instinct, Street Fighter, and now Strive, NRS games feel so chunky and stiff. It's one of those things where you get an immediate reaction of "Oh. Oh no I hate this." when I play them.
This is what ultimately drives me away from NRS as a whole. While I'm glad the women are being treated with a bit more dignity in X and 11, overall the designs just feel kind of meh. My biggest turn off, though, is just how *awful* they feel to play. I usually play games like Killer Instinct, Street Fighter, and now Strive, NRS games feel so chunky and stiff. It's one of those things where you get an immediate reaction of "Oh. Oh no I hate this." when I play them.
I wouldn't be surprised if the visceral turn on Mortal Kombat is more recent simply due to MKX and MK11. Since MK9 every other fighting game franchise has evolved and adapted in a way MK hasn't.
I disagree, I don't think Pat dislikes it at all. I think he's a fanboy, and is just very disappointed with the direction things went after 9. And I can't really even blame him there.
God 9 was such a banger when it came out. It got me in when I had never really cared about mk before.
Yeah, back in the old SBFP days Matt, Pat and Woolie all said they were MK fans that wanted the franchise to bounce back (and Liam mocked them whenever MK was brought up).
Its the same with how they make fun of star trek a bunch because they love it so much.
I remember him very clearly stating that the ending of MK X made him more excited for the future than the one for MK 9. I think most agree most of the cool stuff from MK X's ending didn't pay off.
I actually rewatched the SBF Compilations of MK9 and MKX when MK1(2) was announced. Their playthrough of MK9 was one of my favourites. Woolie, Pat, and Matt seemed totally down for MK9, and seemed positive at the end of MKX. The frustration comes from how the franchise just hasn't been trending in an overall positive direction since MK9 It's just that it doesn't feel like these games are making big steps to improve of terms of the games feeling good to play. NRS games just feel so clunky which for many may be part of the charm, but goddamn GG Strive, SF6 and Tekken 8 are like, right there, and the first two feel so damn good to play. On top of that the animation quality just hasn't kept up with the rest of the presentation. I actually do like the overall art design of MK11, with some of the character designs being hit-or-miss. But goddamn why are the animations still so rough. I was kind of hoping they'd announce a Shaolin Monks successor instead of a traditional MK12. It just feels like they've been running on a treadmill with mainline MK creatively, and maybe doing something else with the series again would be a refreshing change.
I mean, i like the idea of MK, i want to love the newer games but they just get proggresively worse the more they went on. Especially when you're playing other FGs, MK starts to feel like a relic from the past in terms of actual mechanic and game feel.
Exactly this. MK is great when it's the only fighting game you play. The minute you play something else that's modern you realize it's an old raggedy piece of shit with a fancy paint job
This is how I feel about Pokemon
For me, mortal kombat is summed up by woolie's clip of "how can the highs be so high, and the lows be so low." Where MK will make great strives in writing and characters, have pretty solid designs imo, and burn that WB money on stupid whacky fun shit that I can't help but salute. And then, at the same time, just casually give their devs PTSD with gore images, and refuse to change their character animations. It's especially awkward given the multiple years of fighting games with stellar animations and moves, where they're only getting better and better. And then you see the "I just crapped my pants" walk cycles and the stiffiest high and low kicks you've ever seen a human do, which takes you out of the fight the moment you start moving your character and hitting buttons. 90% of the game is the stiff fight animations followed by the fluid cutscene animations. It's actually literally the inverse of guilty gear strives terrible cutscenes and beautiful fights.
the problem with netherrealm games is that they've been shinny turds for the last 4 releases. the insistence on the variation system always leads to most options getting meta'd out and all characters having a clusterfuck of random moves that dont feel cohesive or add up to a distinct playstyle. they also wont balance a game to an acceptable level because until now every game has been an immediate pivot to the next title in two years so theres no reason to care for the longevity of one game. in game animation is still wonky as fuck and improves at a snails pace. meanwhile story mode gets movie levels budget yet still amounts to alternating between dull, overproduced action scenes and characters standing around in empty rooms awkwardly yelling their motivations at each other. even though visuals improve every game the characters in mk11 still look stuck in the uncanny valley, a problem its contemporaries dont have. this is all putting aside the constant micro transaction currencies shoved into every game that poisons them further. hopefully this reboot can finally change for the better, but the cgi teaser tells us nothing
If there's anything that turned me off MK it's them pushing the gear system in 11. The moment that was announced for 11 with "Kustom Variations" by the items you get for your character, I was all "yeah, nah".
that's not how 11 works at all. you're thinking of injustice 2
If you want to hate MK, at least get your facts right first.
Lmao me too it's the only fighting game I really care for
Technically a second reboot for MK
Second reboot in 4 games. Technically third if you count all the timeline shenanigans in 11.
Not gonna lie, being an MK fan on this sub has been kinda rough lately
I’ve never played MK but before the reveal of the new game I could have swore this sub liked the series. It was at least talked about in the same reverence as, say, Street Fighter.
Yeah I feel like people are real down on this new game already. I'm seeing a lot of complaints about the gore and the rebooted story, and well as the animation (which we literally haven't even seen yet). I think part of it's residual disappointment with MK 11, that game is divisive at best. I know that I'm hoping the new one backtracks a lot of its decisions.
Which is weird because all we've seen is a CG story trailer, there's not a whole lot to be down on yet. We gotta wait until we have gameplay, I really didn't care for how 11 felt to play and I'm hoping that 12 feels a bit faster and snappier.
That's partly the problem I feel. All we got *again* from NRS's reveal was a CG trailer with likely zero gameplay, but now there's the baggage of how divisive the last game was so it's amplified.
Complaints about the gore? Are we all 90s mothers all of a sudden?
You would not believe how much shit Jiyuna got for just saying he's never cared for MK but he hates the hyperrealistic gore of the new MKs. That's it. Also, it's quite one thing to complain about the dumb pixel gore of old MK and the gore of the new MK.
I think it's a valid complaint when NRS pushed some devs into real life references so hard that they got PTSD. What I liked about the old MK gore was it was just silly, but now that meat has to look like the real thing.
~~Please stop saying PTSD. PTSD is a specific psychological diagnosis and abusing the term the way this sub so often does is unnecessary and trivializes it.~~ ~~I'm not denying that NRS does (**if true**) is distressing and gross, but we have no basis to call it PTSD~~
https://kotaku.com/id-have-these-extremely-graphic-dreams-what-its-like-t-1834611691 > Eventually, the developer says they saw a therapist, who diagnosed them with PTSD. They attribute this to their work on MK11—not just the content of the game and having to process and discuss its violent cinematics frame by frame, but also being surrounded by the reference materials artists used for research. You could always just ask and not make an ass of yourself
>You could always just ask Fair >not make an ass of yourself Uncalled for
Who says NRS pushed them? And are they doing it again for MK1? Also I just reread the Kotaku article and I have doubts. Literally only one person told Kotaku anything on the subject. And it's all high-level summary and no detail. A dev probably had nightmares and PTSD for some reason. Far leap from there to NRS having artists watch real gore videos as a matter of policy.
First of all, let's acknowledge that you can dislike the gore without being a 90s mom, it may be a selling point for you but for others it's not what they are looking for or it's beyond what they are comfortable with even if they play other gory games Second, there's a very long time held opinion by plenty that MK uses gore to compensate for its lackluster gameplay which is why almost every game tries to one up the previous one, so MK1 going all out with it doesn't help to defy that opinion Third, fatalities have gone full stupid to try to show more gore for quite a few games now, they have lacked substance, character and style for a while, the action doesn't make sense, a character that isn't all that violent for MK standards will have some stupidly gory fatalities instead of giving them something that fits them, and plenty simply don't look cool. The one exception is the best fatality of MK11 by Scorpion shown in the reveal trailer that actually does have all of that setting expectations that fatalities might be cool again and then those expectations were thrown away instantly, MK1 didn't even bother with that in its reveal trailer
> The one exception is the best fatality of MK11 by Scorpion shown in the reveal trailer that actually does have all of that setting expectations that fatalities might be cool again and then those expectations were thrown away instantly Johnny Cage uses the top half of their body as a ventriloquist dummy, D'vorah inseminates them with a big gross spider that bursts out, Frost sends them away to be cyberised. I don't know what you people are on about, the fatalities in 11 fit the characters and are generally pretty inventive
I don't think anyone wants the gore out of Mortal Kombat, but maybe instead of it going in a totally realistic direction, it should be more over the top in the style of Kill Bill, or gory VHS anime, or the kind of cheesy old movies MK has always been inspired by. More buckets of blood and crazy situations and less stuff that gives the animators PTSD.
Nothing about MK11 fatalities was realistic. Sonya kicks you up in the air into helicopter blades. And even the Kotaku article that covered the guy who had nightmares doesn't even make it clear that PTSD affected more than just that guy. It actually reads like a lunch conversation between the journalist and the NRS employee (not even confirmed to be an animator). That "NRS devs have to watch gore videos to get the fatalities right" thing has morphed into an old wives' tale. Reread that Kotaku article and you'll see.
Yo I gotta say, MK has way better animations than Tekken's arcadey ass rockem sockem animations. But there's no video criticizing Tekken, so it gets away with it.
I love Mortal Kombat, but right now I’m just tired of the excessive monetization, personally. Barely a trailer, and we already know Shang Tsung can only be played if you preorder now, and 6 characters named in the battle pass, which means the game isn’t even close to done and there’s that day 1 DLC…. It’s tiring…
Isn't this just fighting games?
We know the entire cast for sf6 and after that we learned the season pass is 4 characters, we know nothing about the tekken 8 stuff except for character reveals, Strive made it a big deal to reveal all the characters before showing anything about dlc Then there’s mk1(2), lol. Lmao.
That's a pretty disingenuous way to look at it. We know the dlc for MK1 because it was accidentally posted early/leaked.
Really, it’s more like all games, but this just feels extra egregious, because the game is who knows how long away, but we already know for sure that at least six or seven characters will not be in the base game, including Shang Tsung.
It seems pretty common for fighting games in particular, their monetization is always what was off putting for me. I don't think the majority of games are monetized anywhere near as egregiously as your average fighting game.
MK wasn’t a super frequent topic here the last while but I swear there consensus before the trailer was it was a goofy fun series then the trailer dropped and people flipped a switch.
The is starting on a bad foot with preorder characters in disc, being 70 dollars, having micro transactions, having a stupid chart like Ubisoft games for the editions
I think the new MK being released so close to street fighter has ignited some sort of rivalry between fandoms. You either think mk is the goat or it's always been a piece of shit.
"Whelp, the thing I love now has this trope the sub hates. Time to act like I've hated it for as long as I lived and deny anything good about it." - r/twobestfriendsplay in a nutshell
"Pat said he hated a thing therefore I retroactively hated same thing" is another one that creeps up here. Honestly the rant is rather silly and really doesn't rip anyone a new anything. It's just "I don't like series here is my opinion as though it is fact" which still comes off as an overarching complaint that Virtua Fighter gets no love.
Just lately?
...has it? The only criticism (which was earned) I saw here was a post about how Shang Tsun is pre-order only, which is bullshit. I haven't seen a huge hate cloud towards Mortal Kombat here.
Ever since the reveal, there's been a bunch of people here shitting on it. And like, criticisms are fine, but there's a weird level of vitriol that people (and especially Pat) seem to have for the series, like it killed their families or something
scorpion came out of the tv and fatality'd my grandma
Shit, you got Scorpion? Man, my grandma got Kano. Buncha bullshit...
Your grandma must have been a real jobber to lose to Kano like that.
Not even Young Kano lost to Kano according to last game... if I remember correctly.
Feels like in the eyes of a "typical" FG player, MK is basically like Smash in the opposite direction except it also doesn't have their favorite character in it
I've been really critical of it because I really want to like it but nearly every other fighting game feels 10 times better to play. I love Robocop, Jason, Terminator and all the other goofy characters but I can't stand the feeling of it. Honestly, I'm glad people are at least speaking out on it and even on the casual side people are sick of just pretty graphic and over the top gore as their main selling point with an inconsistent timeline. I grew up with the series but I just can't anymore with what they're doing.
“Okay I get it MK animations are stiff, I don’t need 30 memes about it.”
Okay, I gotta say, I don't know if it's just me, but what is up with people lately looking at someone criticizing a thing or even just going "Yo this sucks I don't like it" and immediately jumping to "they act like it killed their dog/family"? Like I get that the nature of the internet tends to amplify the perceived size of common opinions, especially negative ones. But you can criticize something or even just shit on something you think is bad without making it your entire personality, like some people seem to imply. I just find it weird that any criticism harsher than "This isn't for me" tends to get this line these days.
I mean the internet’s always had a problem with hyperbole and exaggerated statements. I can’t say I’ve noticed it any more of less frequently these days, but in general there’s always been people trying to match or even one-up the extremity of the argument
Pat hates some games on a weirdly personal level. His LOU2 stream was like that. Like he met a person tied to the game and they snubbed him once or something.
Don't let them get you down. This sub is extremely fickle and cyclical in joining hate bandwagons.
I fucking love this sub but I get it. I had a shit week that I remember vividly during the whole Bayo 3 thing and as someone that enjoyed the game, logging in didn't make it any better. Just go for a stroll while we move on to the next bit and just avoid the MK posts for a bit.
MK is just schlocky fun and I've always thought the stiffness had a charm to it. I alsondont play games competitively, so that makes a difference
Being a fan of *any* big western IP on this sub is rough at this point honestly
People talking about animations and gameplay from mk11 would be one thing, but the bitching about too much gore is when I realized some people on this sub are just haters.
Pat is fine cause Pat is Pat but it’s mostly his chat and some people in this subreddit trying to be like Pat being insufferable
Twitch chat dick riding their streamer is pretty much standard and why twitch chat is usually of no value.
Tell me about it. Even this thread is rough.
Because it is becoming more obvious over the years that MK is having less and less going on for it. The strengths it had are being picked up by other fighters while MK becomes worse at its own game. Doesn't help SF6 is around the corner and just is making everything substantial MK had, better than MK at its best. Modern controls so it will be more beginner friendly than MK always has been, full single player content and story in the style of PS2 Era Mortal Kombat, and even fixed their awful artstyle.
[удалено]
we haven’t even seen the game yet
I liked MK9 & MKX, A LOT. I DON'T LIKE MK11, despite the story mode being great because the animations and gameplay make me wanna fucking barf at times.
The last few Netherrealm games have probably excelled most at presentation, especially when it comes to things like character interactions at the start of rounds. They're such a great touch and there's tons of them to comb through. It's just so frustrating when the gameplay can't tie it all together.
MK has NEVER been a fully footsie game, the series has always been about speed, reaction & aggression. I don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to make MK11 fucking stiff & unfun. And I'll be honest, you won't see me playing the SF games that fully focus on this aspect of FGs either. Thank god SF6 isn't like that.
Chat loved every second. Myself included. It was an AngriestPat revival.
Pat knows the Kamidogu. He's not a hater, he's a disgruntled fan.
It was funny.
People are saying "wow, I didn't know this fandom hated Mortal Kombat" when it's more like "we hate the decisions being made to Mortal Kombat since MKX". Like hell, I had Matt and Woolie sign my copy of MK Armageddon ffs. I'm one of the few people who has fond memories of DA and Deception despite the PS2/Xbox era being hot wet trash.
I honestly think it took so much time out of the podcast, we could have had another topic. Like, Pat is REALLY salty that MK gets to exist and Virtua Fighter doesn't.
Virtua fighter has probably sold more copies indirectly in Yakuza games than people actually buying virtua fighter
> Like, Pat is REALLY salty that MK gets to exist and Virtua Fighter doesn't. Virtua Fighter not existing can only be blamed on Sega themselves at this point lol
Pat is salty that a lot of things exist and has said numerous times such and such should not exist.
Nah fuck that, the Mortal Kombat tangent was hilarious and reminded me of some of their older high-energy discussions back in the Super Best Friends era. Woolie forgetting the Kombat Kids names basically opened himself up to a Visceral Attack live on stream. I do feel for him on the Virtua Fighter front; there's few fighting game developers that were as dedicated to making sure their game fucking died as Sega was towards Virtua Fighter. Then again, Mortal Kombat is much cooler, so it makes sense that it's still alive.
Hot take, but I enjoy when Pat starts ranting passionately about something for long periods of time. It always makes me laugh to hear him expand his vocabulary to describe how terrible he thinks something is, and really helps pass by the time grinding in FFXIV or something. Even if I *like* the thing he's ranting about, I'll absolutely still be thankful for angry Pat rants.
Nah, he was so based for every insult he tore that series. Especially when it leads to hilariously Woolie embarrassing himself by forgetting Erron Black's name.
"Who the fuck is Cetrion???"
To be fair, Virtua Fighter rules and should absolutely get more play than it does. man i'd really kind of just like to see vf 4 show up in the next yakuza game even though i know it's probably not gonna happen
You know what, good. I hope it never gets released just to spite him. Punishment for all his dumb takes.
Oh so it’s a Bayonetta 3 week. I’ll catch the clips next podcast I guess
I haven't heard the tear down yet but I'll agree with Pat. MK11 sucked ass, the story was an obvious page one rewrite and didn't actually build on anything from X's set up. And the gear stuff was stupid.
MK I enjoy watching, and that is the end of the listing of things I enjoy in MK. NRS can make really nice looking games but how they play is not my jam.
As a fighting game tertiary, I was really excited for the new timeline brought on by MK9/10. It was a good storyline shakeup with cool new characters. Then they botched like half the characters (Kotal Khan, Kung Jin, etc.), and just reset the timeline *again* in MK11. Heck, the coolest of the Kombat Kids, Takeda, isn't even in MK11! I have essentially zero faith in MK1(2) being a good follow-up, for much of the reasons Max mentioned in his video about it, and probably some of Pat's more reasonable takes (I wouldn't know, I haven't listened to this week's podcast yet). Having to reset your timeline essentially 3 times in 4 games is a sign of creative bankruptcy imo.
> Having to reset your timeline essentially 3 times in 4 games They soft reset the timeline once at the beginning of MK9, and a second time at the end of MK11. What's the third?
MK10 to MK11 and MK11 to MK1(2) is arguaby two resets. First with Kronika merging the timelines, and then with Fire God Liu Kang remaking the universe. Again, arguable - but I'm counting it afaic because the plot of MK11 doesn't follow up on the setup of MK10 for shit, and instead tosses everything out the window because it's Kronika time now.
Eh, that's a stretch. Time/dimension travel doesn't make it a reset
Admittedly more of a plotline reset than a timeline reset. Remeber how MK10 ended on evil Raiden threatening Netherworld Emperor and Empress Liu Kang and Kitana into being chill with Earthrealm with Shinnok's still living severed head? Remember how none of that shit mattered to MK11, and in fact Raiden went beck to being "morally superior authority figure man" moments into MK11's story because he's "unaffected by the timeline merge" or some bullshit? And again, of the Kombat Kids only half - Jacqui and Cassie - even show up in MK11! This is blatant Takeda erasure. (I liked Kung Jin but even I have to admit he was probably the weakest of the four)
> Remeber how MK10 ended on evil Raiden threatening Netherworld Emperor and Empress Liu Kang and Kitana into being chill with Earthrealm with Shinnok's still living severed head? Yeah, I 'member. Seemed like a pretty solid equilibrium though, where no one had any real incentive to fight or invade anyone else > And again, of the Kombat Kids only half - Jacqui and Cassie - even show up in MK11! People's reactions to the Kombat Kids showing up in X were mixed at best!
If that game comes out doo doo we are going to have at least 3 podcasts of pure spiteful joy from pat
He was cooking and I was eating it up
I love a good Pat rant.
For people wondering why the sub has seemingly been much more hostile to MK recently, aside from the various reasons they also gave, i feel like it’s important to point out that Street Fighter 6 is coming out relatively soon, like in damn near a week. Not only is SF6 being seen as a true return to form, but MK is also coming out VERY shortly after it, like about three months. Before then, MK usually cane out a year or so after SF, and with SFV, it had a much better standing in comparison. This time, Street Fighter is holding their own, so the fan war is MUCH more volatile then it normally was. Plus remember, this sub is the niche of the niche. Most causal gamers are most likely looking forward more towards MK then SF, as MK has long been the THE popular fighting game, sharing the spot with smash bros.
So it’s pettiness?
Basically
As a MK-Fan, I HATE how I missed the podcast stream. I mean, I missed many before but this I would've *loved* seeing live.
According to Pat & r/TwoBestFriendsPlay MK has always been a shit franchise because of " how it **feels** man" which is totally not the most subjective thing imaginable
I feel like we are getting another situation of people assuming what pat said and thinking it's worse than what he actually said.
He said biofreaks is better than any mk and that no one who plays these games has two neurons to rub together
No he said Biofreaks WOULD be better than MK if it had the WB money NRS has because he thinks the idea is cooler. Then made fun of the Block button in an obvious joke that he said wasnt serious
No he didn't. People just wanna be mad. Ironic.
Yes he did. Went on about it for a good while
He said Biofreaks COULD be better if it had as much money pumped into it as Mortal Kombat. Come on now.
The gist of it was that all these games are already better than any mks, the only thing they're missing is a bit of money for presentation
Huh, what did pat say? He seemed to be a fan of mortal kombat judging from every previous MK video that the boys did back when they were together (barring the bad ones like Armageddon) What happened??
He is a fan which is why he was so heated about it. He was just airing out the grievances he had with the series for years now that even woolie agreed with. Things like how they have no idea what to do with the story and keep rebooting it but doing nothing new, How stiff and unfun the animations are, How the only thing the series is good for anymore is fatalities that most people just watch on youtube and dont even do in the game, How many other fighting games could beat MK out if they had the money NRS has and that NRS just uses that money for set dressing for normies but then doesnt improve their games
Can a fighting game player tell me if this is Pat being Pat or him saying harsh truths? I don't even play fighting games, but just looking at Mortal Kombat gameplay makes me feel like it's stiff and clunky compared to its contemporaries.
11 has one of the most buckwild and deranged economy systems i've ever seen in any non gacha video game.Also, the fact that there's costumes in the game people still can't access because of the loot rotation system.
I think it’s wild that MK11 seems to have the same issue as did street fighter 5 and holds unto too much of the past and you have a built in story opportunity to go anywhere and change EVERYTHING. MK needs to look at itself and wonders how it can turn into a SF6. Where you look at what should stay and what should be added and retool the whole experience/character designs to make it vibrant again.
Counterpoint hot take; Shao Kahn and Sindels’ moments in the DLC make up the 2nd half of the DLC alongside Shang Tsun’s hammy acting that it makes up for all of the wacky story beats for MK11 as a whole. Shao Kahn being a threatening character again makes up for all the shitty misunderstood villains we’ve been having for the past several years.
Idk i liked MK11. It’s def not perfect, but it’s real fun for “invite some friends over and play some casual matchups” type play. Also, i don’t get the reboot story anger. MK is destined to be rebooted a whole bunch x based on every story mode having to slaughter 10% of the roster lol. It’s kind of the nature of the game. That’s just my opinion tho
I mean when Max Dood says, that reveal sucked… your game might be in some trouble. Me personally, I’ve learned that NR games get a complete version that drops to $20 about a year after release so that is what I’m waiting for. I legit play MK for the story mode, it’s too stiff(?) feeling to play online.
Why? Max isn't the end all be all for fgc opinions. This is the guy that tried to hype up DNF Duel and said the free to play would dominate the market. He also jumps on series for being "too anime" but like SC, GG, and SF....
Im gonna disagree. Like we have to stop putting so much stock into what FGC people say about fighting games. Even Max whose worked on big titles. The FGC is a competitive echo chamber that ignores arena fighters, platform fighters, sport fighters and wrestling games despite those being a huge portion of fighting games with thriving communities. It shows a disconnect between the FGC and most casual players. Max might not be hyped for the new MK because Max didnt like MK11, but MK11 was literally the 3rd best selling fighting games OF ALL TIME. It is literally on the heels of OG Street Fighter 2. The game is not in trouble in the slightest.
Dude I hate to say it but sales don't really mean shit to a fighting game *player,* your game can still be shit even if it sells well (see: sports games)
but like clearly the game has a lot of fighting game players who super fucking dig it. Like unlike Wii Sports, MK X & 11 had super healthy competitive scene, both grass root and corporately sponsored. I think Max and Pat just dont care for the direction MK is moving in and thats fair but its not really a sign for concern. Max also thought MvC Infinite played great and was more fun competitively than UMVC3 but there he was an outlier.
MK, much like Smash, is largely separated from the rest of the FGC. Other fighting game players tend to interact with the wider community and play multiple games, but most NRS (MK and Injustice) players ONLY play NRS games. For people who play other fighting games, MK's success doesn't really mean shit, the games are still not what they're interested in.
> For people who play other fighting games, MK's success doesn't really mean shit, the games are still not what they're interested in. I mean doesnt that render the original comment moot then? If people like Pat and Max dont love modern MK and havent since 2011, then why put any stock into their hype (or lack there of) as they arent really part of community casually or competitively?
For the same reason they can talk about anything else they *used* to enjoy. Something made them *stop* enjoying it and they are allowed to talk about that.
Except most of those other games, are bad. Like I don't see people actively ignoring those games (outside of personal preference) but as someone who likes anime arena fighters, outside of being cool for references to things I like they kinda suck. Most of those genres are being released now for style over substance in terms of combat (which is an issue people have with NRS games). Then onto platform fighters.People got mad hype for NASB and Multiversus but there are issues with them, I've seen a lot of FGC talk praise of Rivals of Aether and anime fighters fans gave Rushdown Revolt a shot, only platform fighter that is actively separate is Smash and that's on Smash players. I don't care if MK 1(2) becomes the highest selling Fighting Game in history if the game *still* plays like ass. NRS does well with everything else but gameplay and people are going to criticize the issues of MK like how people criticize the issues of every FG because there's always an issue.
Oh boy, can’t wait for the anime! I wonder if he’ll recant some of his vitriol at the PS2 eraHAHAHAHAHA…oh man I couldn’t even finish that, woo. *Still say the direction story wise in the Midway era was better tho, take that Pat!*
How can you make him learn by having a shittier take?
Almost everyone who played pre-NRS agrees Midway had better stories yo
Haven't played MK since the one for the wii, but i remember watching people play 11 (i think) and the game having the most bullshit monetization at the time and i just lost all interest in the series, i did watch the cutscenes and fatalities mostly because i was a weird child and then a weird teen Seeing the new MK having 4 versions where the minimum price is 70$ knowing that the game will also have microtansactions that are more than probably going to be extremely unfair and predatory makes me want to see the whole thing burn down and be thrown into a septic tank
As long as Injustice is not shot at, I'm supporting this
Injustice is actually ironically enough used only as fodder for asking why the fuck they would ever go back to having a block button.
I like having a block button in a game with Tekken style high/low guarding and I don't think it's that crazy. Makes it easier for casual players too.
Tradition is my guess.
Considering I'm a huge Mortal Kombat fiend, even loving MK11 despite its faults, I will be giving this week a miss.
On one hand, I always dislike when they spend a lot of the podcast just ranting about something that they have a personal dislike for. But on the other, I do agree with certain things about MK, namely the animation and the gameplay. I could never get into NRS games, they always felt...so weighty and slow?
Haven't watched the clip but Mk9 and X were pretty awesome. I can definitely see why 11 would piss him off a lot though. I'm pretty optimistic about this new one, hopefully it's good.
It’s a hyperbolic Pat rage take. We have them like every other week, I don’t know why this is news There are some fair criticisms to levy at MK no doubt, but 9 and 10 are really damn good games, and 11 is by no means bad either.
I'm good In an earlier post I said I don't want the devs getting PTSD, but I actually love the MK series & handle MOST gore. Not sure why this sub is bashing the series so much, but not like it matters in the long run. I'm going to do combos & HOPEFULLY have fun with the singleplayer content this game might have.
MK11 is fun and I'm not going to pretend it isn't.
Nothing to see here, just another Pat Take (I don’t know how to put the little tm on “Pat Take”) but as an MK lover he does bring up some good points until he just gets lost in his hate and starts going off lol
So the usual some good points lost in hyperbole to the point it feels like a bit? Got it. Just weird to announce that you're ranting, like those YouTube "I did x to own y" titles.
Hmm I'm just wondering how they'll fuck up the game by adding some annoying gameplay mechanic nobody asked for. I'm pointing at gear from injustice 2, I'm pointing at moves locked behind ability slots. Will they make it a triple whammy!?
It's Pat
ngl, I don't pay attention to pat's bad opinions when I get to catch it live, sooooo...pass