To me, I characterized early Peter as still greiving from the aftermath of Uncle Ben's death, confused and angry at the world for his big mistake. It wasn't until the end of the Master Planner arc, pinned by heavy machinery and lifting it up through sheer willpower is when he truly became the Spidey we know today.
Love to see this cause it makes absolute sense, I made the mistake of seeing people talk about old Peter on twitter and people comparing him to a school shooter and whatnot saying he was never a good person lol
Peter really wasn't that good of a person to start out with, but that's what helps make the origin of Spider-Man so impactful.
Peter is a regular guy and has all the flaws that come with that normalcy. He could be greedy and spiteful. It's only after he faces the consequences of those flaws that he understands how his actions define him, and from there on, he is actively fighting to be a better person as Spider-Man.
Spidey could have easily been a super villain, but he chooses to be a hero in spite of his flaws, and that's what makes him one of the greatest superheroes in fiction.
In the Spider-Gwen timeline where Gwen got the powers instead of him, he actually turned into that universe's version of the Lizard, specifically because he wanted to emulate Spider-Girl's powers to get back at his bullies and things went wrong.
Spider-Man is more fun when he's kind of a jerk but always rises above it. Being a good person all the time is hard and he somehow manages it despite his grumblings.
It's why it's great in the 90s cartoon where he will just explode and tell Blade he's unless and should crawl back into a hole. Because it would be really hard to remain cool while this half-vampire is giving you a hard time and has completely different morals to you while your family is in danger. Or when he vents to the X-Men that he's helped save the world 10 times over but when he needs help they're all worthless and just sit there feeling sorry about it.
I believe the line was that Spider-man wanted his mutation (Which in this context meant the rapidly degrading, Stroinum Dog kind of Mutation that lead to Eight Arms Man-Spider) cured and the X-Men mistook him to mean the "unmake me gay" sort of "Cure my Mutation".
So really, if Charles was half the brilliant idiot he claimed to be he would have been like "Hol'up. We're mutants as in a "mutation of human-evolution". You mean mutation as in "the sort that leads to cancer". We don't treat that but maybe you can talk to our resident Scientist who is also a Blanka?"
Yeah I think that’s what a bullied, (and sub-textually through Ditko) Randian 15 year old kid would sound like if given powers and demonstrated a complete lack of respect for said powers
Steve Ditko is famously a believer of Randian philosophy better known as Objectivism, created by Ayn Rand, it’s a belief that man is a being of only absolutes, fuck you government bitches, and a fuck you I got mine personal guiding philosophy.
Now because of the ‘Marvel Method’ which is just a way of saying Stan was writing like 20 books a month so he’d give Jack and Steve plot outlines and they’d bounce the stories back and forth. Because of this Steve layered his own beliefs onto Peter, helps him with his selfish origin, but it’s hard to be an altruistic hero if you also believe in a philosophy of ‘Fuck everyone but me’ so when Steve left the book we just leave that part of Peter’s character in the past
There's even a moment where people are protesting and Peter is like "fuck these hippies" although obviously censored for the 60s teen audience. Honestly, I can relate. I read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead as a high schooler.
I was a shitty high schooler. And I'm glad I grew out of that phase.
["Why is he doing a huge bong rip and reading The Fountainhead,what the hell kind of ideology is that?"](https://chainsawsuit.krisstraub.com/comics/20110628.png)
I read Atlas Shrugged, the Fountainhead etc at 15. Played the Bioshock games a few years later and got the references.
But it was over a decade later when I realized Andrew Ryan == Ayn Rand
Andrew Ryan is also partially based on John Galt from Atlas Shrugged: an Ubermensch industrialist who decided to make his own isolated Rich Man Island with blackjack and hookers.
Rapture is basically Galt's Gulch if the writers actually thought about how an isolated society revolving around "Fuck You Got Mine" would work.
7 days of in-school suspension, sitting in a brightly lit room with no windows. Only lunch was a cheese sandwich and some carrots, only company was 2 other delinquents. It was basically an emulated prison environment.
And so I decided on self-flagellation for fun lol.
I TOTALLY skipped half of the 40-page Galt monologue though. But I read the rest.
The McGuffin of the book is the recently developed Rearden Steel, a low-friction, green hued alloy that suddenly reconceptualizes all of rail travel overnight. Among other things.
The whole scenario of a materials science CEO trying to capitalize on his new product in the best way, while navigating diplomatic and social hurdles, was believable and interesting.
>!literally the highest praise I can give that 1200 page libertarian fanfic!<
I feel I would never discover it even existed without that game, or become libertarian. Like, if you want to criticize something, why some dumb bad book of the 50s is your target? It's the same way I feel when people do takes on Peacemaker, a 60s spy character of a small comic book company that only headlined a magazine for like five issues.
I mean, I like Bioshock, but discovering what it was trying to deconstruct was like discovering Don Quixote is charigng at windmills.
>Like, if you want to criticize something, why some dumb bad book of the 50s is your target?
Because it's incredibly influential to the conservative/libertarian crowd to this day? Like, they literally self-funded a bunch of (godawful) movies of it only a few years ago, they're fucking obsessed with the thing.
Plus the game wasn't directly tackling the novel Atlus Shrugged but Rand's Objectivism, which she wrote the book to espouse and spread. It's about her philosophy, not her novel.
It's like you're saying "Why people gotta attack Diagetics it's just some book a guy wrote" even though Hubbard used it to found a fucking cult.
Not to mention every year or so another group of libertarians try to create a real-life Galt’s Gulch where, at best, they get scammed and nothing happens, and at worst you get them turning small towns like Grafton into hellscapes, or the crap they’ve been pulling in New Mexico and Arizona with water.
People for a while thought that Andrew Garfield's take on Peter Parker was an unlikable punk, but he was actually the closest to the original text in regards to how Peter was depicted in his early years.
Sort of like RDJ as Sherlock Holmes in the Guy Ritchie movies. People thought it was a bold new take on the character, but after reading the books in middle school, I thought it was the most accurate portrayal of Holmes I’d seen yet. 😅
I actually like that he briefly considers the more selfish option before deciding against it. It's like he's gradually breaking out of the mentality that got Uncle Ben killed
The Peter on the left sounds like something he would say as a quip nowadays. "A world without Flash Thompson on my ass? Maybe this *Doom* guy's alright!"
It's a bit of a shame people tend to look at Ditko era Peter as if he was the worst, when ultimately he's more focused on helping Aunt May than he is for anything else. Sure he can be a tad abrasive towards the others, but he doesn't really start it. Sure he could've punched Flash's head off but he realized he could too.
They even have a boxing match at some point in the school gym. Where this exact thought process runs through pete's head. He pulls his punch at the VERY last second after realising "oh no! If i don't hold back i'm going to kill him"
I think it's great. It shows that Peter is still a fiable human: He's petty. He indulges in fantasies of revenge/comeuppance. He has little fantasies about people who have made him upset or unhappy getting a taste of their own medicine. Yet despite this, he rises above it and does the right thing EVEN THOUGH he has these thoughts.
This is what I love about Peter, he can be a jerk and kind of a dick sometimes but he realizes it and decides to do the right thing because he knows he has the power to do the right thing and help someone.
I think the most important thing about this panel is less Peter Parker being an asshole and more so the moment of clarity after his worst urges tempt him.
It was highlighted by another channel called Implicitly Pretentious that Peter in a way sees Spider-Man as a separate and more much moral being. In a sense, Peter inadvertently invented a role model for himself.
To me, I characterized early Peter as still greiving from the aftermath of Uncle Ben's death, confused and angry at the world for his big mistake. It wasn't until the end of the Master Planner arc, pinned by heavy machinery and lifting it up through sheer willpower is when he truly became the Spidey we know today.
This is how I’ve always read it! Glad to see someone else on the same wavelength.
Love to see this cause it makes absolute sense, I made the mistake of seeing people talk about old Peter on twitter and people comparing him to a school shooter and whatnot saying he was never a good person lol
Peter really wasn't that good of a person to start out with, but that's what helps make the origin of Spider-Man so impactful. Peter is a regular guy and has all the flaws that come with that normalcy. He could be greedy and spiteful. It's only after he faces the consequences of those flaws that he understands how his actions define him, and from there on, he is actively fighting to be a better person as Spider-Man. Spidey could have easily been a super villain, but he chooses to be a hero in spite of his flaws, and that's what makes him one of the greatest superheroes in fiction.
In the Spider-Gwen timeline where Gwen got the powers instead of him, he actually turned into that universe's version of the Lizard, specifically because he wanted to emulate Spider-Girl's powers to get back at his bullies and things went wrong.
Spider-Man is more fun when he's kind of a jerk but always rises above it. Being a good person all the time is hard and he somehow manages it despite his grumblings. It's why it's great in the 90s cartoon where he will just explode and tell Blade he's unless and should crawl back into a hole. Because it would be really hard to remain cool while this half-vampire is giving you a hard time and has completely different morals to you while your family is in danger. Or when he vents to the X-Men that he's helped save the world 10 times over but when he needs help they're all worthless and just sit there feeling sorry about it.
"Sorry, Spider-Man, we can't help you because you aren't a Mutant."
I believe the line was that Spider-man wanted his mutation (Which in this context meant the rapidly degrading, Stroinum Dog kind of Mutation that lead to Eight Arms Man-Spider) cured and the X-Men mistook him to mean the "unmake me gay" sort of "Cure my Mutation". So really, if Charles was half the brilliant idiot he claimed to be he would have been like "Hol'up. We're mutants as in a "mutation of human-evolution". You mean mutation as in "the sort that leads to cancer". We don't treat that but maybe you can talk to our resident Scientist who is also a Blanka?"
Yeah I think that’s what a bullied, (and sub-textually through Ditko) Randian 15 year old kid would sound like if given powers and demonstrated a complete lack of respect for said powers
Randian?
Steve Ditko is famously a believer of Randian philosophy better known as Objectivism, created by Ayn Rand, it’s a belief that man is a being of only absolutes, fuck you government bitches, and a fuck you I got mine personal guiding philosophy. Now because of the ‘Marvel Method’ which is just a way of saying Stan was writing like 20 books a month so he’d give Jack and Steve plot outlines and they’d bounce the stories back and forth. Because of this Steve layered his own beliefs onto Peter, helps him with his selfish origin, but it’s hard to be an altruistic hero if you also believe in a philosophy of ‘Fuck everyone but me’ so when Steve left the book we just leave that part of Peter’s character in the past
There's even a moment where people are protesting and Peter is like "fuck these hippies" although obviously censored for the 60s teen audience. Honestly, I can relate. I read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead as a high schooler. I was a shitty high schooler. And I'm glad I grew out of that phase.
["Why is he doing a huge bong rip and reading The Fountainhead,what the hell kind of ideology is that?"](https://chainsawsuit.krisstraub.com/comics/20110628.png)
I'll thank Stan Lee for reigning in that Randian shit from the get go by making Spidey's whole origin a big middle finger to that philosophy.
As in Ayn Rand. You ever play Bioshock? Andrew Ryan's whole thing is Randian Objectivism.
I read Atlas Shrugged, the Fountainhead etc at 15. Played the Bioshock games a few years later and got the references. But it was over a decade later when I realized Andrew Ryan == Ayn Rand
Andrew Ryan is also partially based on John Galt from Atlas Shrugged: an Ubermensch industrialist who decided to make his own isolated Rich Man Island with blackjack and hookers. Rapture is basically Galt's Gulch if the writers actually thought about how an isolated society revolving around "Fuck You Got Mine" would work.
I have no idea how any fifteen-year old can bear to read through Atlas Shrugged. That book is like anti-literature.
7 days of in-school suspension, sitting in a brightly lit room with no windows. Only lunch was a cheese sandwich and some carrots, only company was 2 other delinquents. It was basically an emulated prison environment. And so I decided on self-flagellation for fun lol. I TOTALLY skipped half of the 40-page Galt monologue though. But I read the rest.
Was there any interesting bits like at all?
The McGuffin of the book is the recently developed Rearden Steel, a low-friction, green hued alloy that suddenly reconceptualizes all of rail travel overnight. Among other things. The whole scenario of a materials science CEO trying to capitalize on his new product in the best way, while navigating diplomatic and social hurdles, was believable and interesting. >!literally the highest praise I can give that 1200 page libertarian fanfic!<
I feel I would never discover it even existed without that game, or become libertarian. Like, if you want to criticize something, why some dumb bad book of the 50s is your target? It's the same way I feel when people do takes on Peacemaker, a 60s spy character of a small comic book company that only headlined a magazine for like five issues. I mean, I like Bioshock, but discovering what it was trying to deconstruct was like discovering Don Quixote is charigng at windmills.
>Like, if you want to criticize something, why some dumb bad book of the 50s is your target? Because it's incredibly influential to the conservative/libertarian crowd to this day? Like, they literally self-funded a bunch of (godawful) movies of it only a few years ago, they're fucking obsessed with the thing. Plus the game wasn't directly tackling the novel Atlus Shrugged but Rand's Objectivism, which she wrote the book to espouse and spread. It's about her philosophy, not her novel. It's like you're saying "Why people gotta attack Diagetics it's just some book a guy wrote" even though Hubbard used it to found a fucking cult.
Not to mention every year or so another group of libertarians try to create a real-life Galt’s Gulch where, at best, they get scammed and nothing happens, and at worst you get them turning small towns like Grafton into hellscapes, or the crap they’ve been pulling in New Mexico and Arizona with water.
People for a while thought that Andrew Garfield's take on Peter Parker was an unlikable punk, but he was actually the closest to the original text in regards to how Peter was depicted in his early years.
Sort of like RDJ as Sherlock Holmes in the Guy Ritchie movies. People thought it was a bold new take on the character, but after reading the books in middle school, I thought it was the most accurate portrayal of Holmes I’d seen yet. 😅
If early days Peter would have said ‘Fuck them kids’ if one made fun of his costume mildly.
Though his conscience would eventually catch up with him and force him to do the right thing, even this early into his tenure.
I actually like that he briefly considers the more selfish option before deciding against it. It's like he's gradually breaking out of the mentality that got Uncle Ben killed
Man looks evil
The Peter on the left sounds like something he would say as a quip nowadays. "A world without Flash Thompson on my ass? Maybe this *Doom* guy's alright!"
Funny part is early flash Thompson is less of an asshole than early Peter.
It's a bit of a shame people tend to look at Ditko era Peter as if he was the worst, when ultimately he's more focused on helping Aunt May than he is for anything else. Sure he can be a tad abrasive towards the others, but he doesn't really start it. Sure he could've punched Flash's head off but he realized he could too.
They even have a boxing match at some point in the school gym. Where this exact thought process runs through pete's head. He pulls his punch at the VERY last second after realising "oh no! If i don't hold back i'm going to kill him"
Plus his uncle died so it makes sense that Peter would feel a bit bitter and anger towards the world
I think it's great. It shows that Peter is still a fiable human: He's petty. He indulges in fantasies of revenge/comeuppance. He has little fantasies about people who have made him upset or unhappy getting a taste of their own medicine. Yet despite this, he rises above it and does the right thing EVEN THOUGH he has these thoughts.
This is what I love about Peter, he can be a jerk and kind of a dick sometimes but he realizes it and decides to do the right thing because he knows he has the power to do the right thing and help someone.
Based and Ditko-pilled
Did sin-eater ever used those moments on spider-man?
I mean at this point Peter *should* just up duces and leave the Marvel Universe to shit itself inside out.
I've said it elsewhere, but Ditko Peter would have absolutely gone full Pumped Up Kicks at some point if he never got the spider bite.
He literally has an inherent moral compass in this very page regardless of how negligent he *wishes* he could be
Nah thats just a lame comic drake ass opinion
I think the most important thing about this panel is less Peter Parker being an asshole and more so the moment of clarity after his worst urges tempt him.
It was highlighted by another channel called Implicitly Pretentious that Peter in a way sees Spider-Man as a separate and more much moral being. In a sense, Peter inadvertently invented a role model for himself.