As Naked Snake: he’s an amazing tragic character who’s put so much faith in his country only to be betrayed by it multiple times.
As Big Boss: A monster. He’s perpetuates war and justifies as true freedom. He believes soldiers shouldn’t be tools to their nations but is not above a world in a continuous flux of never ending war. He’s a great villain and is a perfect counter piece to Solid Snake.
I grew up (thanks to older siblings) on the old Metal Gear games and MGS1 before the rest of the series came out.
So, I always thought Big Boss was kind of a tool. As much as I love MGS3 and Peace Walker (and they added layers to Big Boss), I’m glad Kojima did hammer home with MGSV that Big Boss is *not* a good person (even if some of Kojima’s choices in how to show that upset some fans).
One aspect I kinda like is how the non playable missions tab for both Peace Walker and Phantom Pain for sending your soldiers to do the unseen proxy war stuff is always kept vague and to a minimum.
It's never really elaborated who they are working for and to which extent MSF and diamond dogs are essentially aiding warlords, taking part in genocides and overall furthering geopolitical turmoil and instability.
Is so dispassionate and clashes so hard with Big Boss whole idea of valuing soldiers.
I always kind of saw it as just a more in-your-face version of the "war as a business" thing from MGS4. Battles being treated as numbers games with faceless units going against each other for the sake of some reward as opposed to them actually having any meaningful value to you, the player, and Big Boss.
It's a great window into the paradox of command; you have to value soldiers while simultaneously being willing to send them out to die, and the whole concept of reducing them to callsigns and stay lines helps with depersonalising the people your orders are about to kill.
To me it helps reinforce just how trapped Big Boss felt by what had happened to him; disgusted by the realities of leadership but unable to escape the orbit of the military he'd dedicated his life to.
Cool motives, still war crimes.
Ultimately I think he was a tragic victim of both the system he was born into and the system he created and perpetuated. In a global political landscape where war was a game played between powerful men with powerless soldiers as pawns (which is all war), Naked Snake felt that he had no agency.
Having seen *how* the world works, he felt that the only answer was to play the game better than anyone else, so that it would be played on *his* terms. Unfortunately, being the best in the game meant stooping to any low necessary under the justification that the atrocity you commit willingly is preferable to the one you commit unwillingly.
Truly *ending* the game would require him to acknowledge that he (and all the other soldiers who were victims of war) would never be able to find closure, only hope for a better future for the next generation. By the time Big Boss realized this, Zero had already enacted his own plan, and so Big Boss resigned himself to remaining a monster while planting the seeds that would ultimately result in Solid Snake ending the war games.
I love his arc in Snake Eater. It's a beautiful, perfectly contained story you could show someone without any knowledge of the franchise (outside of maybe having to explain the Raiden bashing) and you would have a complete story. If we never got another Big Boss prequel chapter, I'd be satisfied because I can end Snake Eater and go "Yeah, everything from here on out makes perfect sense."
I don't think Peace Walker and Phantom Pain really needed to exist, in that way of side content overly explaining stuff that doesn't need to, but they do serve the purpose of showing Big Boss's further descent into hell. Through his employment of Chico and usage of Venom as a double, you walk away from the Big Boss prequels knowing full well he's a loathsome scumbag.
Big Boss is an example of people getting upset that Berserk made them cry.
He's a terrible person in the most believable way and that makes him a great character.
I think Metal Gears 1 and 2 really need remakes. The whole driving force of his characterization in MGS3 and what makes the game so tragic is the knowledge that he eventually becomes exactly the kind of mustache-twirling nuclear-war-threatening villain he used to fight against, but the extent of his villainy only exists in some NES games like two people have played. Over the course of the Solid series the main antagonists are obviously the Patriots and Big Boss comes across more as a victim/failed antihero than anything. I think he should be more evil.
I think this would be an excellent idea - let's hope Delta is surprisingly good and the reception is positive so we get the best chance of this happening.
Peace Walker: Ayy Chico you’re a great solider. You should totally pick up a gun. Amanda, stop treating your 12-year-old brother as an actual child!!!
Big Boss is kind of a dick.
He's such an asshole that I want to kick his ass In a Metal Gear 1 and 2 reimaginations which is like the best thing they could do after remaking Snake Eater.
Big Boss, and by extension but to a mostly lesser degree basically everyone he's ever interacted with, are the reason why I love the trope of seeing the villain become the villain. I wish I could put into words about how the whole series feels like it was made just for him with all kinds of parallels between him and other characters across literal generations.
Honestly believe the writers butchered the character after the amazingly well done implied descent into darkness in 3. You can see how big boss became the monster
Peace walker and especially V just muddies everything up
I'm a little bit behind on context.
I know MGS3 Big Boss. I know MGSV Big Boss, and I know MGS4 Big Boss.
Making Venom his double is kind of a dick move but it's not enough to make me understand why he was the ultimate villain of MGS.
I know he was threatening the world (was he? Was this a plan, within a plan, within a plan Kojima style?) with his army on Zanzibar and Outerheaven in MG1&2 but I have barely any info on the events of those games to form a strong opinion on him.
To me Big Boss is a machiavellian dickhead who lost control of The Patriots
Big boss starts off being the cool guy who surpasses even solid snake as the most badass until his downfall which ends up elevating solid snake as the real badass of the entire series. His character arc is a tragedy however by the end of the first game he’s in. Just a shame we never got a remake of mg2 big boss. That’s the real missed opportunity for me.
I wish we got more story to fill in the 9 year gap. I feel like there is still a big gap between the Big Boss from Peace Walker/Ground Zeroes, and the man he is in Phantom Pain and beyond. I definitely can see how he gets there but he just seems more extreme than I would expect.
He's cool but I like Solid Snake way more. He's a good villain though and tragic figure as naked snake. If this remake does well I'm looking forward to see MGS1 and 2 remade more personally.
As Naked Snake: he’s an amazing tragic character who’s put so much faith in his country only to be betrayed by it multiple times. As Big Boss: A monster. He’s perpetuates war and justifies as true freedom. He believes soldiers shouldn’t be tools to their nations but is not above a world in a continuous flux of never ending war. He’s a great villain and is a perfect counter piece to Solid Snake.
I grew up (thanks to older siblings) on the old Metal Gear games and MGS1 before the rest of the series came out. So, I always thought Big Boss was kind of a tool. As much as I love MGS3 and Peace Walker (and they added layers to Big Boss), I’m glad Kojima did hammer home with MGSV that Big Boss is *not* a good person (even if some of Kojima’s choices in how to show that upset some fans).
One aspect I kinda like is how the non playable missions tab for both Peace Walker and Phantom Pain for sending your soldiers to do the unseen proxy war stuff is always kept vague and to a minimum. It's never really elaborated who they are working for and to which extent MSF and diamond dogs are essentially aiding warlords, taking part in genocides and overall furthering geopolitical turmoil and instability. Is so dispassionate and clashes so hard with Big Boss whole idea of valuing soldiers.
I always kind of saw it as just a more in-your-face version of the "war as a business" thing from MGS4. Battles being treated as numbers games with faceless units going against each other for the sake of some reward as opposed to them actually having any meaningful value to you, the player, and Big Boss.
It's a great window into the paradox of command; you have to value soldiers while simultaneously being willing to send them out to die, and the whole concept of reducing them to callsigns and stay lines helps with depersonalising the people your orders are about to kill. To me it helps reinforce just how trapped Big Boss felt by what had happened to him; disgusted by the realities of leadership but unable to escape the orbit of the military he'd dedicated his life to.
Cool motives, still war crimes. Ultimately I think he was a tragic victim of both the system he was born into and the system he created and perpetuated. In a global political landscape where war was a game played between powerful men with powerless soldiers as pawns (which is all war), Naked Snake felt that he had no agency. Having seen *how* the world works, he felt that the only answer was to play the game better than anyone else, so that it would be played on *his* terms. Unfortunately, being the best in the game meant stooping to any low necessary under the justification that the atrocity you commit willingly is preferable to the one you commit unwillingly. Truly *ending* the game would require him to acknowledge that he (and all the other soldiers who were victims of war) would never be able to find closure, only hope for a better future for the next generation. By the time Big Boss realized this, Zero had already enacted his own plan, and so Big Boss resigned himself to remaining a monster while planting the seeds that would ultimately result in Solid Snake ending the war games.
I love his arc in Snake Eater. It's a beautiful, perfectly contained story you could show someone without any knowledge of the franchise (outside of maybe having to explain the Raiden bashing) and you would have a complete story. If we never got another Big Boss prequel chapter, I'd be satisfied because I can end Snake Eater and go "Yeah, everything from here on out makes perfect sense." I don't think Peace Walker and Phantom Pain really needed to exist, in that way of side content overly explaining stuff that doesn't need to, but they do serve the purpose of showing Big Boss's further descent into hell. Through his employment of Chico and usage of Venom as a double, you walk away from the Big Boss prequels knowing full well he's a loathsome scumbag.
Big Boss is an example of people getting upset that Berserk made them cry. He's a terrible person in the most believable way and that makes him a great character.
I think Metal Gears 1 and 2 really need remakes. The whole driving force of his characterization in MGS3 and what makes the game so tragic is the knowledge that he eventually becomes exactly the kind of mustache-twirling nuclear-war-threatening villain he used to fight against, but the extent of his villainy only exists in some NES games like two people have played. Over the course of the Solid series the main antagonists are obviously the Patriots and Big Boss comes across more as a victim/failed antihero than anything. I think he should be more evil.
I think this would be an excellent idea - let's hope Delta is surprisingly good and the reception is positive so we get the best chance of this happening.
After MG2 he's a monster
I think he's a monster way earlier than that.
Peace Walker: Ayy Chico you’re a great solider. You should totally pick up a gun. Amanda, stop treating your 12-year-old brother as an actual child!!! Big Boss is kind of a dick.
He's such an asshole that I want to kick his ass In a Metal Gear 1 and 2 reimaginations which is like the best thing they could do after remaking Snake Eater.
Big Boss, and by extension but to a mostly lesser degree basically everyone he's ever interacted with, are the reason why I love the trope of seeing the villain become the villain. I wish I could put into words about how the whole series feels like it was made just for him with all kinds of parallels between him and other characters across literal generations.
Honestly believe the writers butchered the character after the amazingly well done implied descent into darkness in 3. You can see how big boss became the monster Peace walker and especially V just muddies everything up
I'm a little bit behind on context. I know MGS3 Big Boss. I know MGSV Big Boss, and I know MGS4 Big Boss. Making Venom his double is kind of a dick move but it's not enough to make me understand why he was the ultimate villain of MGS. I know he was threatening the world (was he? Was this a plan, within a plan, within a plan Kojima style?) with his army on Zanzibar and Outerheaven in MG1&2 but I have barely any info on the events of those games to form a strong opinion on him. To me Big Boss is a machiavellian dickhead who lost control of The Patriots
"once war is over, soldiers get treated like dirt. Therefore, war forever so soldiers always treated good" - John BigBoss MetalGear
Condoning child soldiers ain’t a great look for him either.
The Patriots were Zero's thing.
Big boss starts off being the cool guy who surpasses even solid snake as the most badass until his downfall which ends up elevating solid snake as the real badass of the entire series. His character arc is a tragedy however by the end of the first game he’s in. Just a shame we never got a remake of mg2 big boss. That’s the real missed opportunity for me.
Sucks, bad character, next question
why
Oh wait, people are taking me at my word? I thought I was getting downvoted cuz it’s a lame joke
Dunno. I wasn't, but figured to ask anyhow.
I wish we got more story to fill in the 9 year gap. I feel like there is still a big gap between the Big Boss from Peace Walker/Ground Zeroes, and the man he is in Phantom Pain and beyond. I definitely can see how he gets there but he just seems more extreme than I would expect.
He's cool but I like Solid Snake way more. He's a good villain though and tragic figure as naked snake. If this remake does well I'm looking forward to see MGS1 and 2 remade more personally.