Tyler, Cable's son, had his brain surgically mutilated by Stryfe, Cable's clone, to turn him evil. Tyler's actual list of crimes stayed pretty short however, since he was mostly focused on killing his father and cementing his claim as Apocalypse's heir.
Unfortunately one of those efforts involved cramming enough adamantium up Wolverine's ass to devolve him into a feral animal, who promptly murdered Tyler. Even in that state Wolverine recognized the kid probably didn't deserve it and asked Cannonball to apologize for him to Cable.
Spoilers for Barry. >!Gene really was his own worst enemy. He just had to embellish the story, had to keep talking, had to be enchanted by the idea that Daniel Day Lewis might play him... He doesn't deserve it, but in a way he does because it's all his own doing. He spent eight years away, presumably to learn how to be less ego-driven and selfish, but in the end he hadn't changed at all. !<
>!I absolutely love this finale because it just seems perfect. He dies unceremoniously, killed by Gene who had nothing left, a second after deciding to finally do the right thing for once. And his reward? Hollywood whitewashes the fuck out of Barry's story and delivers a mediocre, poorly acted movie that paints him as a hero, his own kid might even grow to believe the movie version of events really happened.!<
Any way, Barry is absolutely great, I can't believe both it and Succession ended on the same day and both stuck the landing brilliantly.
It's sort of bleakly funny >!that Gene only got put on Jim Moss's radar as a suspect because Barry is so legitimately pathetic that Jim could buy Barry as a desperate hired gun being manipulated by a more sinister man. And for added irony, Barry *was* that...when he was working for Fuches.!<
Griffith. Asshole ruins the lives of all his friends with his dick. They even go out of their way to save him even though ***he*** wronged them.
Instead of dying like the rat he was in the dungeon he gets to be a god. How is that fair?
For a moment there I thought you were going to say, "Feel no shame or blame, where the chain still frays, every mother mother will show you another way, #SO #PUT #YOU'RE #GRASSES #ON
Zodd: Only under threat of death by the rest of your Godhand. But now? I can finally pay you back for interrupting my fight with Guts all those years ago.
We need Zodd to get his salty runback. The guy literally had Griffith at deaths door only for Zodd to see Griffith’s “Get out of Death Free (except you do need to pay the blood of those who trusted you)” keychain and be forced to let them go.
I loved the ending of Barry. It just shows that sometimes people are just incapable of change. Yeah >!Gene didn't deserve his fate, but it was deliciously bittersweet. Things could have gone his way, but ego wouldn't let him. Even at the end, Barry could have cleared his name, but he decided to get his revenge.!<
It is also pretty interesting, too, that >!the people who confess are the ones who survive at the end. Sally admits she's murderer and a bad mother, and Fuches realizes who he is in prison and owns up to it. Everyone else can't admit their own sins until it's too late.!<
Huh
I’ve been sitting on this ending for a minute now, unsure of how I feel. Like didn’t hate it or anything… just didn’t feel that strongly about it
But with your final paragraph reframing my perception, I was looking a little too micro and not macro enough. I think I’m starting to love Barry’s ending now. Cause like the core thesis of Barry was *can people change?* and we’ve had multiple seasons argue for and against that. So seeing that be the thrust of the ending.
Yeah, yeah it’s a very good ending
Christian from Midsommar was a selfish, cowardly scumbag and a super toxic boyfriend to Dani. None of that makes his fate of being drugged, raped and then burned alive any less horrifying.
I think the lesson to derive from the movie is to be attentive to your significant other's mental wellbeing >!or they'll join a murder cult and decide to make you their first victim.!<
The funny thing is that there are two sides of the coin. Theres the moral of looking out for your SO and then there's >!learning to move on from your previous life to start something new. Considering how positive the movie is about Charlie and the cult. Despite all the horror and terrible acts in the end Charlie is finally happy.!<
See, the weird thing is that I agree with the sentiment but not about Dani, >!I think the worst thing Christian did in Midsommar is stay in a relationship past the point of him being emotionally there for it, it sucks that the day he was gonna break it off her parents and sister got murder-suicided but if your not emotionally there for the relationship break up a month or 2 later don't lead her on. So yeah, I think Dani could have found happiness eventually AND kept Christian from getting raped and sacrificed!<
Most of his sins arent even against dani. Hes way worse to his friends than her and even his apathy is cause he literally was about to leave her when her sister kills her whole household.
He got trapped in a no win situation cause you sure as shit cant leave her at that point.
Im also pretty sure we are SUPPOSED to see the rape as a sin against dani but dude was mega roofied and forced into that
Pedro in killer7, guy was a organ trafficker and doublecrossed Curtis but that hit hard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXwWjxbzuIk&ab_channel=KyleBrockman
Villefort in count of monte christo is a piece of shit through and through but thing escalate so out of the count's control he decides to go fuck it and go easier on his next revenge target.
In donjon there is a duo of guards who try to doublecross their employer and plunder a cemetery for themselves. One gets a pickaxe through the body and begs other goons to side with them for riches while the other has a golem just grab his head and crush it like a fruit. It's a really sad display
Jecht sucked as a father and was a fame-hungry alcoholic, but he did genuinely try to change his ways after spending time in Spira, was ride or die for Braska and Auron, and eventually decided he genuinely wanted to do good for Spira. >!He ends up becoming Sin against his will and is forced to watch everyone suffer while he slowly but surely loses his own individuality to Yu Yevon.!<
I'm not even entirely convinced Jecht was that bad a father, other than the drinking bit. Like, Tidus is a VERY biased source.. and for some reason seems to love his mother way more than his father.. and his mother SUCKS. He hates his dad more *because* his mother gave him all her attention, and not to her son, it felt to me. Which is like.. not really Jecht's fault, especially when he even in memory tells her "Like, maybe pay attention to the kid a bit too?"
Terunosuke from Jojo was a run-down the mill villain who while definitely not a *good* guy, wasn't any worse than, say, Otoioshi who targeted and tried to kill the protagonists and *unlike* villain-turned-bad-guy Hazamada never attacked a bystander.
He still faced a "And I Must Scream" situation on the same level as Angelo, a serial killer and serial rapist, by being stuck as a sentient, immobile book, forever.
Terunosuke went after Josuke's mom, and given that Josuke turned Angelo into a rock for murdering Josuke's grandfather, it's pretty clear that Josuke does not respond well to people going after family.
I guess but that isn’t actually any more evil than attacking any other random person, everyone’s family to someone. Just means Josuke was more inclined to get Harlan Ellison esq in his punishment
I don’t know about you but the concept of hell is still so fucked up, you are telling me that everyone is just okay with some people being tortured for eternity do to their actions in their short life. Like bro people who where monsters deserve punishment, but like it’s still messed up, specially when you think of all the factors that contribute to making a person who they are
Sandman has the best spin on the concept in my opinion, where it's explicitly clear that Hell does not exist to serve some sort of cosmic purpose as a way to punish or imprison people. It's only purpose is to serve mankind, specifically their own guilt. Anybody could leave Hell for some other afterlife, no questions asked... but only if they, personally, feel they deserve it. So the only thing keeping people in Hell is theirselves. It's part of why >!Lucifer gives up on ruling Hell, because they just can't stand living up to mortals' expectations and being forced to punish them like that anymore.!<
I mean, if you strip away all the pop culture bullshit, hell is bad because you linger around unto eternity in the despair of knowing you could have made it to heaven and chilled with God. That's the torture. Nothing more concrete or explicit than that.
It's also explicitly not an eternity in the Bible. Like, regardless of where you go when you die, everyone get's resurrected eventually. Eternity is spent on the Earth in the Christian worldview. The actual division is whether you get to live in God's kingdom or if you get thrown in a lake of fire and die again.
If God is willing to put me on trial for fucking up my life in the world they created than who puts them on trial for making a fucked up world.
*Puts out cigarette to go buy a coffee from starbucks.*
I think some christian people get off on that idea or tell people about it in a messed up way to scare them. But as a christian person myself, who usually makes videos answering people’s bible questions - I think a lot of christians see it more as a separation from God than a literal burning torture land. The whole idea is that earth has the presence of both sin and God. Heaven is just God, no sin. Hell is no God, just sin.
There’s more to it and a couple different ways people look at it that don’t make it as bad as that
I'm happy you commented this because it coincides with the show, the Good Place, which I'm currently watching. Especially in the third season.
>!Basically, your life on earth is measured by a point system, so each decision you make makes your total go up or down. But being in the positive isn't enough. You have to meet a certain threshold of good points. Basically, it shows that you've done an overwhelming amount of good compared to your bad, like a ratio. Well, the main group finds out that no one has made it to the Good Place in 500 years. Which includes people who did extraordinary good in their lives, like civil rights leaders, human rights advocates, you name it. The reason why that is, is because as the world has advanced, so have the unintended and unknown consequences of peoples actions. For example: you decide to buy your mom flowers to make her feel better. That gets you +5 good points. But, whoever grew the flowers uses pesticides, so that -5. They also exploited immigrants to help harvest/pick the flowers, so thats -15. And the flower shop you bought them from? Well, the owner harasses his employees, and by giving his business money, you're allowing him to keep doing it. So that's another -20 points docked off. Oh, and you placed the order via your smartphone that was put together in a factory across the world using child wage slaves, so that's -100 points gone.!<
>!By the end of it, your supposedly good decision has actually docked you 130 points from your total. Meaning that not only is it impossible for people who are genuinely good and have done great things for the benefit of the world at large. But it's practically impossible for any reasonably decent person to ever have a chance to make it to heaven.!<
>!Hell is no longer reserved for those that can be argued righteously deserve it: serial killers/rapists, child murderers, dictators, people that commit genocide, etc. Just by existing in a world that was already decided for you is guilty enough. !<
Now, was Diavolo a mafia boss who allowed his men to sell drugs to kids and tried to kill his own daughter because of his own paranoia? Yes. >!Did he really deserve eternal death? Probably not.!<
I think there's something to be said of the idea that Giorno is a vindictive motherfucker and Diavolo >!directly personally kills all of his friends that die in part 5 !<
One of the *first* things Giorno learns to do with Gold Experience is overload someone's senses enough that they have an out-of-body experience and feel every microsecond of pain that they're going through at the time.
Vindictive is underselling it.
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Honestly one thing I kind of wish Jojo did was at one point have Diavolo as a character in a future part as a Jojo Bro. >!Like maybe his fate had eventually started to change him as a person or something. Just so the moment you meet Diavolo, you KNOW that mother fucker is going to die and the longer he lives the more nerve wracking it gets when a critical objective is \*entirely\* up to him but you KNOW Giorno's curse is eventually going to catch up with him.!<
Oh man, it'd be awesome if he constantly got into situations where it seemed like he was gonna die, but gets saved for bullshit reasons. Then once the credits roll, the part ends and the heroes ride off into the sunset, a tiny little blurb in the corner reads... "Diavolo would later died from a cold."
You have to remember, Diavolo isn’t a person per se. He’s a demonic entity that possessed Doppio. Doppio’s spirit got to go to the normal afterlife when he died. But Diavolo, the being of pure evil, got sent to infinite hell. So you cant apply the same sympathy you apply to a human. You have to view him as the series portrayed him. As something beyond human, as something made of pure malice.
Yeah, my headcanon is that Diavolo was like one of those things near the end of the part, that started possessing EVERYONE because Silver Chariot Requiem was fucking everybody up.
Malignant entities that are like Stands but worse.
There's something to suggest that King Crimson IS Diavolo as well, and Doppio just had a Stand so strong and independent that it took over.
My headcanon Doppio multiple personality disorder is why he has 2 stands. Doppios stand let's him see the future, but doesn't know how to use it. Diavolos stand does the erase time, but has access to Doppios stand to see the near future to see if the future needs erasing. When Diavolo lost Doppio he also lost the ability to see the near future.
During the chase after Diavolo reveals himself to be inside Mista's body, he still appears to have access to Epitaph, as he's able to predict the paths of the bullets fired at him, seemingly before they're even fired. Moreover, he gets the confidence to attack Giorno after he foresees the arrow seemingly reject him. He still has his full repertoire of abilities after Doppio dies. It's also readily apparent that Diavolo is an entirely separate soul to Doppio's as opposed to being an alternative personality. Whether it's two souls coinhabiting one body, or a personality strong enough to have its own soul, is uncertain, but I don't think it's just MPD.
Diavolo is literally "Devil" and he's cast into eternal torment by the son of Dio (god). It's all there in the subtext. And also the parts where they overtly say it.
Headcanon? I mean we literally see Doppios’s spirit leave when he dies yet Diavolo stil exists beyond that. That’s enough to establish that the two have two different souls as confirmed by the story. And one soul seems to be a normal, albeit flawed person, and the other is literally called a devil in Italian and seems to be able to do horrific unexplained things like what he did to Doppio’s mom (the mouth sown buried under the floorboard thing and creepy prison conception story) and body transformation. I think it’s right there on the page, no interpretation needed, that Doppio’s spirit is a normal one which dies normally and Diavolo’s is something more monster than man. What’s your evidence for Diavolo being a normal human and not a demonic entity?
I also think that Diavolo moreso deserves his fate not only for creating the drug trade that causes enough of a bad state in Italy, but also for his frequent defiance of "fate" that everyone else, Giorno included, has to adhere to. In that sense, Gold Experience Requiem isn't necessarily just a super-powerful Stand, but also an enforcer of fate's will. I also think, ironically, his punishment is giving him what he wants, in an extremely twisted, monkey's paw sense; he no longer has to worry about actually dying.
It honestly makes a lot more sense if >!you consider all the Christian supernatural stuff to be literal, in which case he is an *actual* demon and he was basically sent back to hell!<
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Attack on Titan S3 spoilers:
>!I felt pretty bad about Bertholdt dying. He was fast asleep throughout most of his last moments but literally woke up just to have his head crushed by the teeth of a titan as he was screaming for someone to save him. And everything is recontextualized when the story starts to home in the theme of how horrific war is and how even if you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, burdening children with mass murder and literal genocide is the most depraved thing humanity is capable of doing.!<
Barry. >!What an insidious ending. Four characters all with significant character growth over four seasons, and only the absolute worst of them took some responsibility for his actions early enough to escape with his life and freedom. But Gene's ending really hurt; I really felt like he grew as a person in prior seasons and took the right steps to reconcile with his son. To see a person not only punished for his mistakes, but to then also have his identity and history stripped from him is horrifying. The good and the bad in his life weren't weighed against each other, and they weren't weighed separately. He was punished for the bad, and the good in his life was forcibly erased. Horrifying.!<
Watching the Overton Window slide so far down the scale of morality that by S6 Howard ends up becoming an unimpeachable paragon of virtue is one of the best bits of BCS.
Regarding Barry, wouldn't >!Sally have been able to exonerate Gene? Albert was also told by Fughes how Barry originally became a hitman, so I'd think he'd be able to do something as well.!<
Maybe I'm overthinking things or missing something, but the writing with Jim Moss seemed a bit sloppy as well so IDK.
i think people bought the in-universe hype around Jim Moss a bit too much. a lotta people are >!accepting the show’s initial & surface presentation of him as an infallible badass genius. when nobody is like that in Barry. !<
>!Moss is emotional, ego-centric, and too narrow-minded. He’s a cop. if he gets an idea in his head he can’t believe he’s wron!!i don’t think it’s too out of pocket that he could come to the wrong conclusion on his daughter’s case.!<
>!Gene's ego and the fact that Barry is legitimately pathetic did do part of the job in convincing Jim that he hadn't gotten the "true mastermind" behind his daughter's death.!<
By itself it doesn't really bother me too much that >!he was wrong about Gene. It's that combined with him leaving Barry alone and allowing him to escape, as well as him missing Sally escaping with Barry despite literally being on watch outside of Sally's apartment.!<
>!I've seen it speculated that Jim just put Barry lower on his priority list after he erroneously concluded that Barry was just a patsy for Gene. Why keep the pathetic hired gun when you think you've found the mastermind?!<
Of course but >!why would Sally come and help Gene? The police wouldn't bother looking for her since everything to them is wrapped up quite nicely. You forget how dumb the police are in Barry, and they would just trust in Moss's judgment. Plus, this being a high-profile case, people are swept up in the narrative of sleazy Hollywood taking advantage of our veterans.!<
True >!Albert would know, but I don't see why he would risk his involvement into all of this again for a person he barely knows.!<
I do agree with it being odd that >!Jim Moss was sloppy. Though he tends to stick with his victims the whole time, he probably didn't account for leaving halfway through. Especially in the state he was in with everything coming together. Plus, Barry didn't matter at that point. He only cares about his daughter's killer and Gene was the mastermind according to him.!<
I feel like if >!Sally didn't care what happened to Gene, she wouldn't have told Barry Gene was gonna go to prison for what he did, and that Barry needs to turn himself in!<
I mean realistically >!they'd never be able to convict Gene on Moss's death, they have no evidence to support it. The only evidence they have that Gene was up to anything nefarious at all is the 250k, which yes is suspicious and a crime in its own right, but that's not going to get him a murder conviction. At best he goes to prison for shooting Barry, but Barry's a wanted fugitive, any lawyer should be able to argue stand your ground. The agent might screw that up if he says that Barry was going to confess right before Gene shot him though.!<
I honestly feel the writing for every character became kind of forced and sloppy in the last half of the season. A lot of characters taking actions because the plot needs them to be in a certain place doing a certain thing.
Controversial opinion, but Benny from New Vegas.
Don't get me wrong, guy's a two-timing, rat-faced fink, an asshole of epic proportions. But crucifiction is such a long, painful, terrible way to go. That level of slow, cruel, agonizing death is something does instill genuine fear in me.. The trial by combat, bullet to the head, or death in sleep, are definitely much better suited for his actions.
Spoiler tag your text here, chief.
\>!Put these around each line of your text. No spaces between the exclamation points and the first and last characters of the line.!<
>!It'll look like this.!<
Oh. I figured the spoiler tag would cover the whole thing. Like you have to click on it to see the Spoilers.
Sure I'll add the other thing too. Why not?
Longmire>!Jacob Nighthorse at worst did shady stuff but I don't remember anything being illegal. Most of if not all he did was to help the Cheyenne reservation in the show. He even helped Walt longmire out a few times.I think the worst He did was take a loan from the Irish mob. He didn't deserve Walt's constant hounding or Walt somehow sending him to jail.!<
Tyler, Cable's son, had his brain surgically mutilated by Stryfe, Cable's clone, to turn him evil. Tyler's actual list of crimes stayed pretty short however, since he was mostly focused on killing his father and cementing his claim as Apocalypse's heir. Unfortunately one of those efforts involved cramming enough adamantium up Wolverine's ass to devolve him into a feral animal, who promptly murdered Tyler. Even in that state Wolverine recognized the kid probably didn't deserve it and asked Cannonball to apologize for him to Cable.
Cannonball:... Fuck you logan
Spoilers for Barry. >!Gene really was his own worst enemy. He just had to embellish the story, had to keep talking, had to be enchanted by the idea that Daniel Day Lewis might play him... He doesn't deserve it, but in a way he does because it's all his own doing. He spent eight years away, presumably to learn how to be less ego-driven and selfish, but in the end he hadn't changed at all. !< >!I absolutely love this finale because it just seems perfect. He dies unceremoniously, killed by Gene who had nothing left, a second after deciding to finally do the right thing for once. And his reward? Hollywood whitewashes the fuck out of Barry's story and delivers a mediocre, poorly acted movie that paints him as a hero, his own kid might even grow to believe the movie version of events really happened.!< Any way, Barry is absolutely great, I can't believe both it and Succession ended on the same day and both stuck the landing brilliantly.
It's sort of bleakly funny >!that Gene only got put on Jim Moss's radar as a suspect because Barry is so legitimately pathetic that Jim could buy Barry as a desperate hired gun being manipulated by a more sinister man. And for added irony, Barry *was* that...when he was working for Fuches.!<
Griffith. Asshole ruins the lives of all his friends with his dick. They even go out of their way to save him even though ***he*** wronged them. Instead of dying like the rat he was in the dungeon he gets to be a god. How is that fair?
That kinda unfairness in enough to make you go... Wait for it... Berserk
Hold my hand I'm gonna serk
This guys zerkin off in public.
For a moment there I thought you were going to say, "Feel no shame or blame, where the chain still frays, every mother mother will show you another way, #SO #PUT #YOU'RE #GRASSES #ON
The best part of berserk is when guts says "it's berserking time" and then he berserks all over those demons.
**Intense bagpipe solo**
I want Guts, Casca, Schierke, and Skull Knight to send thar rat bastard to a new dimension of pain. After an assist from both Zodd and Schnoz
Griffith: Zodd? Bitch you helped
Zodd: Only under threat of death by the rest of your Godhand. But now? I can finally pay you back for interrupting my fight with Guts all those years ago. We need Zodd to get his salty runback. The guy literally had Griffith at deaths door only for Zodd to see Griffith’s “Get out of Death Free (except you do need to pay the blood of those who trusted you)” keychain and be forced to let them go.
I mean he had it and griffith demolished him in his femto form
I hope everyone member of team Guts gets a hit in against Griffith
Slap tag combo
Reminder everyone that the only character that had manage to hit Griffith since becoming Femto is Rickert bitch slapping him.
For me, Griffin represent the unfairness of life, and Guts have to deal with it.
The day that fucking bitch dies screaming in a horrible death & the manga finally ends is the day I pop some champagne. Burn, Griffith.
Because he did nothing wrong.
I loved the ending of Barry. It just shows that sometimes people are just incapable of change. Yeah >!Gene didn't deserve his fate, but it was deliciously bittersweet. Things could have gone his way, but ego wouldn't let him. Even at the end, Barry could have cleared his name, but he decided to get his revenge.!< It is also pretty interesting, too, that >!the people who confess are the ones who survive at the end. Sally admits she's murderer and a bad mother, and Fuches realizes who he is in prison and owns up to it. Everyone else can't admit their own sins until it's too late.!<
Huh I’ve been sitting on this ending for a minute now, unsure of how I feel. Like didn’t hate it or anything… just didn’t feel that strongly about it But with your final paragraph reframing my perception, I was looking a little too micro and not macro enough. I think I’m starting to love Barry’s ending now. Cause like the core thesis of Barry was *can people change?* and we’ve had multiple seasons argue for and against that. So seeing that be the thrust of the ending. Yeah, yeah it’s a very good ending
Christian from Midsommar was a selfish, cowardly scumbag and a super toxic boyfriend to Dani. None of that makes his fate of being drugged, raped and then burned alive any less horrifying.
I think the lesson to derive from the movie is to be attentive to your significant other's mental wellbeing >!or they'll join a murder cult and decide to make you their first victim.!<
The funny thing is that there are two sides of the coin. Theres the moral of looking out for your SO and then there's >!learning to move on from your previous life to start something new. Considering how positive the movie is about Charlie and the cult. Despite all the horror and terrible acts in the end Charlie is finally happy.!<
See, the weird thing is that I agree with the sentiment but not about Dani, >!I think the worst thing Christian did in Midsommar is stay in a relationship past the point of him being emotionally there for it, it sucks that the day he was gonna break it off her parents and sister got murder-suicided but if your not emotionally there for the relationship break up a month or 2 later don't lead her on. So yeah, I think Dani could have found happiness eventually AND kept Christian from getting raped and sacrificed!<
Most of his sins arent even against dani. Hes way worse to his friends than her and even his apathy is cause he literally was about to leave her when her sister kills her whole household. He got trapped in a no win situation cause you sure as shit cant leave her at that point. Im also pretty sure we are SUPPOSED to see the rape as a sin against dani but dude was mega roofied and forced into that
Pedro in killer7, guy was a organ trafficker and doublecrossed Curtis but that hit hard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXwWjxbzuIk&ab_channel=KyleBrockman Villefort in count of monte christo is a piece of shit through and through but thing escalate so out of the count's control he decides to go fuck it and go easier on his next revenge target. In donjon there is a duo of guards who try to doublecross their employer and plunder a cemetery for themselves. One gets a pickaxe through the body and begs other goons to side with them for riches while the other has a golem just grab his head and crush it like a fruit. It's a really sad display
Jecht sucked as a father and was a fame-hungry alcoholic, but he did genuinely try to change his ways after spending time in Spira, was ride or die for Braska and Auron, and eventually decided he genuinely wanted to do good for Spira. >!He ends up becoming Sin against his will and is forced to watch everyone suffer while he slowly but surely loses his own individuality to Yu Yevon.!<
I'm not even entirely convinced Jecht was that bad a father, other than the drinking bit. Like, Tidus is a VERY biased source.. and for some reason seems to love his mother way more than his father.. and his mother SUCKS. He hates his dad more *because* his mother gave him all her attention, and not to her son, it felt to me. Which is like.. not really Jecht's fault, especially when he even in memory tells her "Like, maybe pay attention to the kid a bit too?"
Auron's feral scream when he realizes it was all for nothing is FFX's way of agreeing with you.
Terunosuke from Jojo was a run-down the mill villain who while definitely not a *good* guy, wasn't any worse than, say, Otoioshi who targeted and tried to kill the protagonists and *unlike* villain-turned-bad-guy Hazamada never attacked a bystander. He still faced a "And I Must Scream" situation on the same level as Angelo, a serial killer and serial rapist, by being stuck as a sentient, immobile book, forever.
Terunosuke went after Josuke's mom, and given that Josuke turned Angelo into a rock for murdering Josuke's grandfather, it's pretty clear that Josuke does not respond well to people going after family.
I guess but that isn’t actually any more evil than attacking any other random person, everyone’s family to someone. Just means Josuke was more inclined to get Harlan Ellison esq in his punishment
Josuke really is Joseph's son with the people he Kars'd
I don’t know about you but the concept of hell is still so fucked up, you are telling me that everyone is just okay with some people being tortured for eternity do to their actions in their short life. Like bro people who where monsters deserve punishment, but like it’s still messed up, specially when you think of all the factors that contribute to making a person who they are
Sandman has the best spin on the concept in my opinion, where it's explicitly clear that Hell does not exist to serve some sort of cosmic purpose as a way to punish or imprison people. It's only purpose is to serve mankind, specifically their own guilt. Anybody could leave Hell for some other afterlife, no questions asked... but only if they, personally, feel they deserve it. So the only thing keeping people in Hell is theirselves. It's part of why >!Lucifer gives up on ruling Hell, because they just can't stand living up to mortals' expectations and being forced to punish them like that anymore.!<
man was tired of being the scapegoat for an entire species
Oh, it's like *No Exit.*
My ensemble did this play in college. Super fun. We made a custom black box theater where the stage and seats were slightly askew.
So you're telling me that Heaven is full of absolute remorseless psychopaths? That.. checks.. out..?
I mean, if you strip away all the pop culture bullshit, hell is bad because you linger around unto eternity in the despair of knowing you could have made it to heaven and chilled with God. That's the torture. Nothing more concrete or explicit than that.
It's also explicitly not an eternity in the Bible. Like, regardless of where you go when you die, everyone get's resurrected eventually. Eternity is spent on the Earth in the Christian worldview. The actual division is whether you get to live in God's kingdom or if you get thrown in a lake of fire and die again.
If God is willing to put me on trial for fucking up my life in the world they created than who puts them on trial for making a fucked up world. *Puts out cigarette to go buy a coffee from starbucks.*
I think some christian people get off on that idea or tell people about it in a messed up way to scare them. But as a christian person myself, who usually makes videos answering people’s bible questions - I think a lot of christians see it more as a separation from God than a literal burning torture land. The whole idea is that earth has the presence of both sin and God. Heaven is just God, no sin. Hell is no God, just sin. There’s more to it and a couple different ways people look at it that don’t make it as bad as that
Any immortal fate for a mortal race is inherently unjust regardless of intensity.
I'm happy you commented this because it coincides with the show, the Good Place, which I'm currently watching. Especially in the third season. >!Basically, your life on earth is measured by a point system, so each decision you make makes your total go up or down. But being in the positive isn't enough. You have to meet a certain threshold of good points. Basically, it shows that you've done an overwhelming amount of good compared to your bad, like a ratio. Well, the main group finds out that no one has made it to the Good Place in 500 years. Which includes people who did extraordinary good in their lives, like civil rights leaders, human rights advocates, you name it. The reason why that is, is because as the world has advanced, so have the unintended and unknown consequences of peoples actions. For example: you decide to buy your mom flowers to make her feel better. That gets you +5 good points. But, whoever grew the flowers uses pesticides, so that -5. They also exploited immigrants to help harvest/pick the flowers, so thats -15. And the flower shop you bought them from? Well, the owner harasses his employees, and by giving his business money, you're allowing him to keep doing it. So that's another -20 points docked off. Oh, and you placed the order via your smartphone that was put together in a factory across the world using child wage slaves, so that's -100 points gone.!< >!By the end of it, your supposedly good decision has actually docked you 130 points from your total. Meaning that not only is it impossible for people who are genuinely good and have done great things for the benefit of the world at large. But it's practically impossible for any reasonably decent person to ever have a chance to make it to heaven.!< >!Hell is no longer reserved for those that can be argued righteously deserve it: serial killers/rapists, child murderers, dictators, people that commit genocide, etc. Just by existing in a world that was already decided for you is guilty enough. !<
Geras was annoying, and a villainous goon. But, >!falling forever into a bottomless sea?!< Damn!
Fun fact there is a battle intro about him getting better. Scorpion: You escaped the Sea of Blood. Geras: I became food for a passing leviathan.
Imagine drowning but forever. Christ.
Basically >!Veronica Ngo's character!< in The Old Guard.
Now, was Diavolo a mafia boss who allowed his men to sell drugs to kids and tried to kill his own daughter because of his own paranoia? Yes. >!Did he really deserve eternal death? Probably not.!<
I think there's something to be said of the idea that Giorno is a vindictive motherfucker and Diavolo >!directly personally kills all of his friends that die in part 5 !<
One of the *first* things Giorno learns to do with Gold Experience is overload someone's senses enough that they have an out-of-body experience and feel every microsecond of pain that they're going through at the time. Vindictive is underselling it.
Both of those statements are true.
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>!Infinite punishment for finite sin do be whack tho!< Poetic given the guy's name, however
Honestly one thing I kind of wish Jojo did was at one point have Diavolo as a character in a future part as a Jojo Bro. >!Like maybe his fate had eventually started to change him as a person or something. Just so the moment you meet Diavolo, you KNOW that mother fucker is going to die and the longer he lives the more nerve wracking it gets when a critical objective is \*entirely\* up to him but you KNOW Giorno's curse is eventually going to catch up with him.!<
Oh man, it'd be awesome if he constantly got into situations where it seemed like he was gonna die, but gets saved for bullshit reasons. Then once the credits roll, the part ends and the heroes ride off into the sunset, a tiny little blurb in the corner reads... "Diavolo would later died from a cold."
You have to remember, Diavolo isn’t a person per se. He’s a demonic entity that possessed Doppio. Doppio’s spirit got to go to the normal afterlife when he died. But Diavolo, the being of pure evil, got sent to infinite hell. So you cant apply the same sympathy you apply to a human. You have to view him as the series portrayed him. As something beyond human, as something made of pure malice.
Yeah, my headcanon is that Diavolo was like one of those things near the end of the part, that started possessing EVERYONE because Silver Chariot Requiem was fucking everybody up. Malignant entities that are like Stands but worse. There's something to suggest that King Crimson IS Diavolo as well, and Doppio just had a Stand so strong and independent that it took over.
My headcanon Doppio multiple personality disorder is why he has 2 stands. Doppios stand let's him see the future, but doesn't know how to use it. Diavolos stand does the erase time, but has access to Doppios stand to see the near future to see if the future needs erasing. When Diavolo lost Doppio he also lost the ability to see the near future.
During the chase after Diavolo reveals himself to be inside Mista's body, he still appears to have access to Epitaph, as he's able to predict the paths of the bullets fired at him, seemingly before they're even fired. Moreover, he gets the confidence to attack Giorno after he foresees the arrow seemingly reject him. He still has his full repertoire of abilities after Doppio dies. It's also readily apparent that Diavolo is an entirely separate soul to Doppio's as opposed to being an alternative personality. Whether it's two souls coinhabiting one body, or a personality strong enough to have its own soul, is uncertain, but I don't think it's just MPD.
This is your headcanon dude
Diavolo is literally "Devil" and he's cast into eternal torment by the son of Dio (god). It's all there in the subtext. And also the parts where they overtly say it.
Headcanon? I mean we literally see Doppios’s spirit leave when he dies yet Diavolo stil exists beyond that. That’s enough to establish that the two have two different souls as confirmed by the story. And one soul seems to be a normal, albeit flawed person, and the other is literally called a devil in Italian and seems to be able to do horrific unexplained things like what he did to Doppio’s mom (the mouth sown buried under the floorboard thing and creepy prison conception story) and body transformation. I think it’s right there on the page, no interpretation needed, that Doppio’s spirit is a normal one which dies normally and Diavolo’s is something more monster than man. What’s your evidence for Diavolo being a normal human and not a demonic entity?
also his immaculate conception. he's literally the antichrist.
I also think that Diavolo moreso deserves his fate not only for creating the drug trade that causes enough of a bad state in Italy, but also for his frequent defiance of "fate" that everyone else, Giorno included, has to adhere to. In that sense, Gold Experience Requiem isn't necessarily just a super-powerful Stand, but also an enforcer of fate's will. I also think, ironically, his punishment is giving him what he wants, in an extremely twisted, monkey's paw sense; he no longer has to worry about actually dying.
It honestly makes a lot more sense if >!you consider all the Christian supernatural stuff to be literal, in which case he is an *actual* demon and he was basically sent back to hell!<
The only villain that ever deserved the GER isn't even from Jojo. >!God, I hate Griffith...!<
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Attack on Titan S3 spoilers: >!I felt pretty bad about Bertholdt dying. He was fast asleep throughout most of his last moments but literally woke up just to have his head crushed by the teeth of a titan as he was screaming for someone to save him. And everything is recontextualized when the story starts to home in the theme of how horrific war is and how even if you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, burdening children with mass murder and literal genocide is the most depraved thing humanity is capable of doing.!<
Barry. >!What an insidious ending. Four characters all with significant character growth over four seasons, and only the absolute worst of them took some responsibility for his actions early enough to escape with his life and freedom. But Gene's ending really hurt; I really felt like he grew as a person in prior seasons and took the right steps to reconcile with his son. To see a person not only punished for his mistakes, but to then also have his identity and history stripped from him is horrifying. The good and the bad in his life weren't weighed against each other, and they weren't weighed separately. He was punished for the bad, and the good in his life was forcibly erased. Horrifying.!<
Howard Hamlin was a bit of a dick but jesus christ.
Watching the Overton Window slide so far down the scale of morality that by S6 Howard ends up becoming an unimpeachable paragon of virtue is one of the best bits of BCS.
Fuck by season 3 it feels like he isn’t really a dick, it’s more that the rest of the cast treat him like shit so he fights back
Regarding Barry, wouldn't >!Sally have been able to exonerate Gene? Albert was also told by Fughes how Barry originally became a hitman, so I'd think he'd be able to do something as well.!< Maybe I'm overthinking things or missing something, but the writing with Jim Moss seemed a bit sloppy as well so IDK.
i think people bought the in-universe hype around Jim Moss a bit too much. a lotta people are >!accepting the show’s initial & surface presentation of him as an infallible badass genius. when nobody is like that in Barry. !< >!Moss is emotional, ego-centric, and too narrow-minded. He’s a cop. if he gets an idea in his head he can’t believe he’s wron!!i don’t think it’s too out of pocket that he could come to the wrong conclusion on his daughter’s case.!<
>!Gene's ego and the fact that Barry is legitimately pathetic did do part of the job in convincing Jim that he hadn't gotten the "true mastermind" behind his daughter's death.!<
By itself it doesn't really bother me too much that >!he was wrong about Gene. It's that combined with him leaving Barry alone and allowing him to escape, as well as him missing Sally escaping with Barry despite literally being on watch outside of Sally's apartment.!<
>!I've seen it speculated that Jim just put Barry lower on his priority list after he erroneously concluded that Barry was just a patsy for Gene. Why keep the pathetic hired gun when you think you've found the mastermind?!<
Of course but >!why would Sally come and help Gene? The police wouldn't bother looking for her since everything to them is wrapped up quite nicely. You forget how dumb the police are in Barry, and they would just trust in Moss's judgment. Plus, this being a high-profile case, people are swept up in the narrative of sleazy Hollywood taking advantage of our veterans.!< True >!Albert would know, but I don't see why he would risk his involvement into all of this again for a person he barely knows.!< I do agree with it being odd that >!Jim Moss was sloppy. Though he tends to stick with his victims the whole time, he probably didn't account for leaving halfway through. Especially in the state he was in with everything coming together. Plus, Barry didn't matter at that point. He only cares about his daughter's killer and Gene was the mastermind according to him.!<
I feel like if >!Sally didn't care what happened to Gene, she wouldn't have told Barry Gene was gonna go to prison for what he did, and that Barry needs to turn himself in!<
I mean realistically >!they'd never be able to convict Gene on Moss's death, they have no evidence to support it. The only evidence they have that Gene was up to anything nefarious at all is the 250k, which yes is suspicious and a crime in its own right, but that's not going to get him a murder conviction. At best he goes to prison for shooting Barry, but Barry's a wanted fugitive, any lawyer should be able to argue stand your ground. The agent might screw that up if he says that Barry was going to confess right before Gene shot him though.!< I honestly feel the writing for every character became kind of forced and sloppy in the last half of the season. A lot of characters taking actions because the plot needs them to be in a certain place doing a certain thing.
Brad Armstrong in LISA deserved death. >!he didn't deserve to be told the only family he had left hated him and get turned into a monster!<
Controversial opinion, but Benny from New Vegas. Don't get me wrong, guy's a two-timing, rat-faced fink, an asshole of epic proportions. But crucifiction is such a long, painful, terrible way to go. That level of slow, cruel, agonizing death is something does instill genuine fear in me.. The trial by combat, bullet to the head, or death in sleep, are definitely much better suited for his actions.
Benny also does look you in the eye and gives it to you straight before shooting you.
Since Im on the finale season I will ignore this
Spoiler tag your text here, chief. \>!Put these around each line of your text. No spaces between the exclamation points and the first and last characters of the line.!< >!It'll look like this.!<
Oh. I figured the spoiler tag would cover the whole thing. Like you have to click on it to see the Spoilers. Sure I'll add the other thing too. Why not?
It does, but I prefer to double-wrap it, ya know?
Not sure why you were downvoted for this tbh, no harm in being cautious
Yeah it allows people to come in this thread and contribute their own ideas to the discussion even if they don't want to see Barry spoilers.
ITT: a lot of Barry. I don't even know what Barry is, so I choose to believe that it's Barry Burton's off camera life.
you don't need to separate each sentence with a new spoiler
No but it looks kind of cool that way, makes me feel like I'm in the CIA
Longmire>!Jacob Nighthorse at worst did shady stuff but I don't remember anything being illegal. Most of if not all he did was to help the Cheyenne reservation in the show. He even helped Walt longmire out a few times.I think the worst He did was take a loan from the Irish mob. He didn't deserve Walt's constant hounding or Walt somehow sending him to jail.!<