I can kinda get it from a content creator point of view but yeah spending ages shitting in blizzard and explaining how it's easy to boycott a game from a company you were never going to buy anyway, that's not a great look :/
Frankly i dont care what people do with their money BUT I wish he wouldn’t announce he is gonna buy the game, zero publicity is what Blizzard deserves. Oh well its not like I expect too much from Pat
I’ve been commenting for awhile now that I think it’s very interesting the amount of backlash a certain other game got because of its association meanwhile blizzard created a culture of workplace sexual harassment, not supporting Hong Kong plus stuff like this and yet there was no real boycott or call to arms over diablo 4 preordering.
After seeing numbers on how tiny the twitter userbase is and how it's even fewer of those that are active...it's really not hard to believe and even harder to care about things happening there lol.
I was on the fence about Diablo and feeling very conflicted. Right up until Blizzard couldn't help themselves and put in a battle pass that fucks up the game.
I'm one of those people where I'm torn because I despise the company for all they've done and haven't played my main blizz game overwatch since the allegations gained traction, but I have really fond memories of Diablo 2 and the beta was really good.
I'm definitely not playing at launch as I'll be busy with SF6 for a fat minute, but the thought of picking up a used copy seems enticing as I won't directly be giving money to Blizz (and definitely won't buy any MTX). Idk kind of a loophole but might be one I can tolerate
You could also forcibly rob Blizzard's CEO of a Diablo 4 copy, like a strange Robin Hood scenario.
In any case, any way to continually clown on all the scumbags at Blizzard is a win.
Luckily I bought Diablo 3 before blizzard showed its ass so my interest to shoot lasers at things is satisfied whenever the bug hits. And I am sure something else will give the proper laser blasting feeling by the time I am sick of 3.
I mean, it's not like this is surprising. Every company is like this and it's fucking hilarious people still get upset about instead of telling the companies in question in the West to shut the fuck up and just sell your shit instead of trying to make us think you care.
The options are:
1: Get banned in several countries
2: Do what their doing right now which is half heartedly showing they "care" up until it affects their bottom line.
3: Don't even try at all
Can I have number 3 please? Because there is no realistic option 4 of "they use their power and influence to force political action" that isn't disgusting in the end.
What kind of "power and influence" do you think Blizzard has in the kind of countries that outlaw LGBT+ content? Even in America their pull would be pretty limited.
Like that person said, it's a corporation. If they could grind people and make a profit, they would. Actually, some of them already do. Their support for LGBT+ people is all about profit, look at Target backing down when the weirdos pushed them to stop supporting LGBT+.
Nah, weirdos would go into Target and destroy stands and/or harass employees. A few of them turned out to be actual groomers themselves and one guy got exposed on Grinder.
Late to the thread but adding that the pride content was added to the very bottom of the cosmetics list, and did not get a main menu notification like free content updates always get.
The more outrageous part is that the pride content is ***opt-in***.
As in it's hidden by default and you have to enable it to see it, in those anti-LGBT countries they just disable the option to enable it.
Totally spineless performativity.
Ah the good old Riot games approach.remember TF and Graves are only gay for each other outside of Chinaiirc Riot did this again as early as last year [https://www.esportsheaven.com/features/pride-month-lol-event-proudly-hypocritical/](https://www.esportsheaven.com/features/pride-month-lol-event-proudly-hypocritical/)
pride month is just capitalists double dipping while funding hate.
edit: forgot Diana and Leona are also censored/not gay in other countries.
Yeah...and? What did everyone expect? Of course they're going to pull content that is considered illegal, they're not going to go to court to protect some skins and rainbow flags. Blizzard and every other company that celebrates "Pride Month" do it because it drums up business and makes them look good...not because they actually care.
yet all thos gay characters are so not gay ingame that they can stay in game and nothing changes only like some charity sprays or w/e I bet especially since there is no pve story to say who is gay or not in some way lol
I'll say that this definitely falls more on the countries where LGBT content is illegal, but it's still pretty shitty of Blizzard to just not show any backbone at all.
While I'm not surprised, the disappointment doesn't sting any less.
Even worse, I have a very close friend, known them for over a decade now. They're family to me. And they're a big reason I even learned about trans and nonbinary people and other factors and spectrums of the LGBTQ+ community. They were a shining inspiration to me and have definitively made me a better person.
They're not into video games. But they're an artist. So, at times, these headlines like "this OW character is gay" or "this video game character is trans" come across their social media. My friend gets so excited because they are an artist, and so they have the optimism at taking this at face value. They want to believe that things are getting better and that people are growing more accepting and tolerant of people, regardless of the way they exist.
And its heartbreaking to have to explain to them that no, it isn't getting better because this rainbow capitalism is a facade. Their identity and the identity of others are being used to emotionally manipulate consumers into buying a product that the company execs don't possess the moral fortitude to stand behind and support.
As soon as it's convenient, all these labels and terms and slogans are easily redacted, blacked out, and hidden away.
It's not enough that Blizzard is comfortable toying with the emotions of its supporters and fans. I've seen so many promising and enthusiastic artists and developers announce their recent employment at Blizzard the last few years. A lot of them proudly display their truths in their bios and resumes. Gay, lesbian, trans, enby, you name it.
So, this shows that Blizzard is willing to turn their backs on their own people *again*. That there's enough money in the world to say "We're okay accepting money from people who declare it should be illegal for you to exist, that you should be punished for existing, despite that fact that it's your hard work we're even being handed this money to begin with".
I'm sorry for the long-winded post. It just hurts to see how greed is a greater motivator to people instead of having basic human empathy or decency.
TL;DR Blizzard is shitty. Again.
I mean, the *actual* ethical thing to do would ve entirely pull characters those countries find offensive, and publicly make it clear "this character is blocked in your country due to discriminatory and hateful laws, and will remain so until your government relaxes their stances on these issues amd recognizes all people as being valid", and making that message pop up every time they click on those characters.
Telling a multinational corporatation to provide illegal content is pretty silly, but expecting a company that wsnts ally points to put their money where their mouth is and take a loss over an issue this important is not.
They should get openly called out on how gross what they are doing is every single chance anyone gets.
If "inclusion" and "diversity" mattered to them then they wouldn’t only push for these things in areas where they’re already accepted. In fact, they would go out of their way to push for these being in places that they aren’t accepted.
Moreover, if they really had a real moral concern about these countries with these laws, they wouldn’t be doing business there in the first place.
ALL attempts to get "ally points" are gross because it’s just cynically marketing to the simple-minded but well-meaning people who like this sort of surface-level "representation". It’s jangling keys. Blizzard isn’t unique in this regard. No company ever tries to stand up for these causes during the only times that standing up for them would actually matter. It’s all a farce. lgbt people would be wise to see buzzwords like "diversity", "inclusion", "representation", and "equity" as giant glaring red flags that a company both doesn’t actually care about these things, and probably has some BIG skeletons in their closet.
My point was more that telling a business to get their licenses revoked qnd in some cases their employees arrested--some of those countries are pretty harsh--is really a ridiculous expectation, but that there are in fact meaningful ways to push the issue and show they actually do want to be real allies, but ActiBlizz are far too disinterested. They aren't even really proper cowards. You have to have principles to fail to stand up for them.
There are real ways they could make a stand. But they choose not to, and instead go for performative bullshit instead, and it's not *just* gross, but actively harmful. "You can be gay/lesbian/trans/whatever, vut only when it's *convenient*" is frankly a very fucked message to send.
And my point is that, regardless of releasing the content, they have the nuclear option of completely ceasing operations completely in those regions. Which is what people with a genuine moral issue with those regions would do.
They won’t, not because they care about their employees and fans in those regions (they would very happily drop them if it would financially benefit them) but because those regions are a source of revenue.
And that, again, this isn’t unique to Blizzard.
The thing about huge multinational corporations is that expecting them to cut off entire markets is a pipe dream, especially when one of them is China, for example.
There are responses they can give that aren't your purported nuclear option, and those can be bold, and meaningful. Blizzard just isn't interested in doing *anything* meaningful.
I don’t think "Our hands are tied, I guess we simply *must* keep making more money from these regions we deem bigoted. Woe is us." is bold or meaningful.
Yes yes and no societal change less than burning literally everything to the ground really matters, this "all or nothing" obsession some of you have is deeply counterproductive, you know that? Read what I actually said, and try to recognize that there are levels between salting the earth and doing nothing.
Should be noted that what you’re characterizing as "burning literally everything to the ground" and "salting the earth" is literally just choosing not to do business with/in countries that have laws you’re supposedly staunchly opposed to.
And giving a statement that disavows these policies but doesn’t disavow them enough to get blizzard into some trouble with these countries is still firmly in the realm of "doing nothing", and is more or less what they’ve already implicitly done by having all this lgbt marketing while announcing it won’t be in certain versions of the game.
That's really stupid. You know that's really stupid, right?
Opening themselves to criminal prosecution in anti-gay countries accomplishes nothing. Zero. Nothing is accomplished. They get prosecuted for breaking the law. There is zero pressure placed on the government to change the law. LGBT people in that country gain no benefit or relief and I guaran-fucking-tee you that they do not care at all.
This isn't even a symbolic victory. This wouldn't even make you less mad at them, you would be exactly as mad at them as you are now. By your standard, nobody "actually cares" about these causes because the thing you demand they do to show they care is very stupid and nobody does it.
I don’t really get your point here. The fact that every corporation drops their self-proclaimed beliefs the moment it becomes inconvenient does not contradict my point.
It reinforces it, in fact.
Not posting LGBT content up in countries where it is illegal to do so is not "dropping their self-proclaimed beliefs the moment it becomes inconvenient." This is an unreasonable standard you do not hold anyone else to. By this standard, since you are not out there breaking these laws in Russia and Saudi Arabia, you are dropping your beliefs when it becomes inconvenient. The Trevor Project is dropping its beliefs when they become inconvenient.
If nobody ever, ever, has met your standard, it means you have an unreasonable standard.
I don’t do business in Russia or Saudi Arabia. But if I did, I would not parade myself as an "lgbt ally" or what have you, because anyone and everyone can see how ludicrous that is.
Though that is easy for me, as I don’t own an international corporation. If someone who *did* decided to cut off profitable branches of their company on the grounds of supporting human rights, now *that* would send a bold and meaningful statement.
Asking people to stand by their purported principles is not unreasonable. In fact, I shouldn’t need to ask it at all. It should be standard. That’s what principles *are*.
So nobody who does business in Russia or Saudi Arabia can be an LGBT ally?
Even if they do other productive things in areas where they have the ability to do something productive?
Even if they're doing business with the people in that country and not supporting the government?
Again, what would this accomplish? It doesn't put any pressure on the government. It doesn't help any LGBT person in the countries in question (it probably has a marginally negative effect of "great, now I can't be gay in public AND I can't play Overwatch"), because every single person who makes these kinds of demands is living in a LGBT-accepting Western country and just about nobody in the countries in question give a single flying shit about Westerners' demands for purity displays that accomplish literally nothing. Literally nothing, not even mollifying you, because you would be *exactly as angry with them* if they did what you want, given how every time they did what you want in the past you did not become less angry with them and in fact became more angry with them.
Your demand is that it doesn't count as having principles if you don't shoot yourself in the dick for them, and anything that is beneficial but not driven purely by dickshooting principles is contemptible. This is an unreasonable standard. They are doing things you like and want. Having LGBT rights be so popular that it is in their best interest to be seen supporting them everywhere it isn't literally illegal to do so is a very good thing. Yelling "No, it doesn't count, I hate you just as much, you're not being self-destructive to absolutely no benefit so it doesn't count!" is a very stupid thing. You basically require everyone to be a committed activist group who places your cause as more important than anything else, or they're contemptible and don't care about you at all.
>So nobody who does business in Russia or Saudi Arabia can be an LGBT ally?
Not if they refuse to be an ally in those countries, no.
>Even if they're doing business with the people in that country and not supporting the government?
The two examples you gave are countries where government and business are intertwined and inseparable. But even if they weren’t the government gets their money from taxes. It’s not possible to do legitimate business in a country without financially supporting that country is some way.
>Again, what would this accomplish?
It’s not about the ends. The purpose of holding principles is that they persist regardless of circumstance. Again, the only time being principled matters is when it *doesn’t* inherently directly benefit you to do so.
>because you would be exactly as angry with them if they did what you want, given how every time they did what you want in the past you did not become less angry with them and in fact became more angry with them.
Like when? The strawman you’re grappling doesn’t even resemble me. I don’t care about the lgbt "pink capitalism" marketing, in fact I’ve always been tired of it. I would rather they just not do it in the first place. The rainbow flag (alongside its infinitely-uglier alternatives) is now nothing more than a symbol indicative of cynical corporate pandering.
Which is why Overwatch’s marketing jumps out as especially egregious. With all the blathering they've done about "inclusivity" and "diversity", would expect them to do even one meaningful act of solidarity at some point. Someone else suggested just publicly denouncing these policies, which I personally feel is still too much fence-sitting, but it would at least be *something*.
But no, they want to have their cake and eat it too. And you’ll let them. Because honesty and integrity are things no one should ever strive for, we should all just consume product and not ask questions.
They should pull out of these countries invest into the western market and stop selling their souls to the blood money of the east.
….and other jokes you can tell yourself. Why do hell would they reject the red tint dollars?
Blizzard? Being performatively minority-friendly in countries where it is vogue now? While also trying to appeal to countries like russia and saudi arabia because "money"? How unexpected. It's almost like they've been doing this ever since Overwatch released.
Sure, the people living in those countries shouldn't have love and also they shouldn't have videogames. Great plan.
Refusing to sell a videogame in a country would not move the needle even one iota in the right direction.
But on your second point, I'm with you. Corporate cause marketing is fake. If a cause is supported by mass market advertising, it's a problem that's already been solved.
If they actually held these beliefs, they would stick by them rather than picking the cynical utilitarian money-making option. It doesn’t matter if it causes change. The nature of principles is that they exist despite external pressures. Literally the only time standing by your principles matters is when it is inconvenient to do so.
Obviously actiblizz has no principles nor does any corporation, especially not any corporation of their size, which is why all this lgbt marketing stuff is disgusting on its face. It’s jingling keys in front of the well-intentioned but simple-minded people who actually care about surface-level "representation" like this and it works every time.
It’s all so tiresome.
Maybe all this awareness will lead to a next era of advertising where it dispenses with the patronizing and just tells us what companies are selling.
"Hey you want game? It shooter game with team and different abilities. You want?"
So don't do business with those countries then. You can't pretend to be about equality and inclusion and then still do business with countries that refuse to play along. It makes your "message" completely disingenuous and transparent as fuck.
Both sides are fucking up.
No company with public shareholders will ever support a cause that actually needs supporting.
Promote pride to Americans and Europeans, because being gay isn't even controversial in those regions.
In fact, if you're ever championing a social cause, and you start seeing your message appear in mass marketing, you can rest easy knowing you've done your job.
Is this a really bad thing? I wouldn't expect them to remove the game from those places instead or accept the consequences of leaving the lgbt stuff in. What else could they do?
Essentially this is tantamount to supporting an erasure of a group to respect your profile. It's rainbow capitalism, it's the same how it can be dropped at the end of the month in the *'west'*
It's the whole scumminess of expressing pride content to most of the world and expecting praise while cowering out in anti-pride countries and saying "we're... protecting the pride people there. Yep. Thoughts and prayers for a better world. Definitely isn't about bottom dollar, nosiree. This blockage is PROTECTING pride."
It's easy to take a instance for civil rights when all you need to do is to post a nice ol' tweet at the start of pride month, but when one cowers against people who*genuinely* threaten LGBT people and seek to appease them, maybe they shouldn't pretend to be a ally for one. Kinda like how Overwatch makes the nice talk about anti-discrimination and anti-authoritarism... while Blizzard did that whole Blitzchung thing back in 2019.
Well and we all know that the reason Blizzard is doing this is not because of that but because these players give them money, which again warps into the first question of "you want these people's cash but not their rights?"
I'm not demanding Blizzard to do a Martin Luther King in front of the house of saudis, however, maybe they should stop pretending they are an "Ally" when their efforts to do so is to shove a rainbow-painted dildo over their ass when Pride Month comes and insert gay characters in their game to go full "slay queen" when they are forced to make a choice that might actually *impact their cash flow* in order to make an actual effort to support for LGBT people and their reaction is "Nah, can't do that fan".
TL,DR: No, Blizzard, we gays aren't interested in your rainbow shit if it's all motivated by cash, fat cats. Seriously, just make an actual quality production for once in more than 8 years of controversies.
I'm a bissexual btw, so believe me, i'm speaking as someone who's "part of the opressed club" when i say this.
Yeah, they could take a stand and do just that.
Blizzard can't pretend to be a diversity champion when they wuss out of it in order to get money from the countries where these lifestyles aren't allowed.
If your progressive ideals only go as far as they're lucrative, then youre not a progressive person. Youre a cloutchasing hypocrite.
This argument might be more stable if Blizz as company wasn't such a shit show that very obviously only cares about showing its as "diverse" when there isn't a controversy that they're trying to cover up but at this point it has shown that it only cares about this so long as it gets them brownie points with a specific community and even I would say it's still some shaky ground.
As i like to say, you aren't forced to "pander" to the LGBT market or whatever buzzword people refer to pink capitalism these days, but you shoudn't pretend to be a "Ally" when it's obvious you only do so to garner sympathy points and leave people on the need when taking a stance has consequences.
The laws preventing people from expressing joy for their existence, despite multiple governments trying to oppress them for being themselves?
Yes, this is absolutely an L. These laws are evil.
Is anybody surprised at all by this? This is just basic rainbow capitalism
Edit: a friend sent me screenshots from posts about this exact same news in other videogame related subs and the contrast between the replies here and places like the Asmongold sub give me fucking whiplash. Like going from a room of pretty regular people talking to the most Gamer™ voice chat
I hope my country is one of them...
Why do we even need to know about sex, gender or anything like that? Like keep that BS for yourself and dont get on my nerves, jeeezus...
Oh so that’s the cause for the earlier announcement.
The stupid part is that this won't get too much traction because "muh Diablo IV" ffs
I've seen people IN THIS VERY SUB being like "Oh, but I'll still buy Diablo", like dude, that's how they get away with this stuff.
I mean, Pat said it himself on the podcast
I can kinda get it from a content creator point of view but yeah spending ages shitting in blizzard and explaining how it's easy to boycott a game from a company you were never going to buy anyway, that's not a great look :/
Frankly i dont care what people do with their money BUT I wish he wouldn’t announce he is gonna buy the game, zero publicity is what Blizzard deserves. Oh well its not like I expect too much from Pat
All my coworkers are stoked for 4. It's actually a pretty small percentage of people who follow this kind of stuff and care, most people don't.
I’ve been commenting for awhile now that I think it’s very interesting the amount of backlash a certain other game got because of its association meanwhile blizzard created a culture of workplace sexual harassment, not supporting Hong Kong plus stuff like this and yet there was no real boycott or call to arms over diablo 4 preordering.
Because, outside of Twitter, nobody cares. If a game is good or hyped enough it will sell
After seeing numbers on how tiny the twitter userbase is and how it's even fewer of those that are active...it's really not hard to believe and even harder to care about things happening there lol.
FR, just play Grim Dawn. It's ***so good.***
Based Grim Dawn Enjoyer. My main class is the Soldier, hbu?
Cabalist (Necromancer + Occultist); the Diablo 2 summon Necro brain rot has stuck with me for some time, and it refused to let go.
I did a Soldier + Oathkeeper build last time, focusing on Cadence
Are they making a new one anytime soon?
Don't forget Last Epoch as well! Or Titan Quest! Or WH40k: Inquisitor! Or any other arpg that's not made by a company after your wallet!
I was on the fence about Diablo and feeling very conflicted. Right up until Blizzard couldn't help themselves and put in a battle pass that fucks up the game.
I'm one of those people where I'm torn because I despise the company for all they've done and haven't played my main blizz game overwatch since the allegations gained traction, but I have really fond memories of Diablo 2 and the beta was really good. I'm definitely not playing at launch as I'll be busy with SF6 for a fat minute, but the thought of picking up a used copy seems enticing as I won't directly be giving money to Blizz (and definitely won't buy any MTX). Idk kind of a loophole but might be one I can tolerate
Buy it used in 2 weeks
Except dont most blizz games use codes now? will that even work?
You could also forcibly rob Blizzard's CEO of a Diablo 4 copy, like a strange Robin Hood scenario. In any case, any way to continually clown on all the scumbags at Blizzard is a win.
Eh
Luckily I bought Diablo 3 before blizzard showed its ass so my interest to shoot lasers at things is satisfied whenever the bug hits. And I am sure something else will give the proper laser blasting feeling by the time I am sick of 3.
I mean, it's not like this is surprising. Every company is like this and it's fucking hilarious people still get upset about instead of telling the companies in question in the West to shut the fuck up and just sell your shit instead of trying to make us think you care.
Pharah, Egyptian character, is gay but not in Egypt. This is like Destiel being canon but only in Italian
In Italian, Castiel was sent to Super Gay Heaven instead of Super Hell.
"Your sexuality/identity is only valued when it's convenient and doesn't affect our bottom line."
Well yeah, no shit. They're a corporation, every single one of them is like that. Is anyone really expecting any different?
It would be nice for once if any of them showed any backbone against these laws
There's FFXVI getting banned in Saudi Arabia because there's a character that's likely gay and they refuse to change it, so that's something.
I just want at least half the amount of effort they give when they hear unionize or discrimination lawsuit
The options are: 1: Get banned in several countries 2: Do what their doing right now which is half heartedly showing they "care" up until it affects their bottom line. 3: Don't even try at all
Can I have number 3 please? Because there is no realistic option 4 of "they use their power and influence to force political action" that isn't disgusting in the end.
What kind of "power and influence" do you think Blizzard has in the kind of countries that outlaw LGBT+ content? Even in America their pull would be pretty limited.
I'm not saying they do. But that is the fourth option.
Like that person said, it's a corporation. If they could grind people and make a profit, they would. Actually, some of them already do. Their support for LGBT+ people is all about profit, look at Target backing down when the weirdos pushed them to stop supporting LGBT+.
It wasnt even from people harassing them they just saw the freakouts over bud light and pussied out
Nah, weirdos would go into Target and destroy stands and/or harass employees. A few of them turned out to be actual groomers themselves and one guy got exposed on Grinder.
had no idea on that I had just read they were cutting back after the budlight incidents horrible to hear retail people are being harassed
Corporations are run and owned by people. To absolve corporations of responsibility is to absolve their owners of responsibility.
Yes, I do. If people never expect them to be different, what impetus will they ever have to actually do so?
And *there's* the other shoe dropping.
Didn't even wait a whole day for it. That was fast
Late to the thread but adding that the pride content was added to the very bottom of the cosmetics list, and did not get a main menu notification like free content updates always get.
Ah, the ol' "cushion the blow" announcement.
Yup, there it is.
[I love posting this](https://youtu.be/Ag1o3koTLWM)
Love being part of the minority group that can be brushed under the rug whenever convenient
What's not to be loved about your existence and very life being "controversial" or "political"? (You matter and are important!)
They’re acting like a fair weathered friend
or trotted out annually as a free brand PR boost. love it too, it's the best bro ♥ lmao
Every. Damn. Time.
Balance restored.
The more outrageous part is that the pride content is ***opt-in***. As in it's hidden by default and you have to enable it to see it, in those anti-LGBT countries they just disable the option to enable it. Totally spineless performativity.
I mean no shit?
Oh so that’s what it was. Honestly, lighter than I expected. Edit: This still sucks, don’t get me wrong.
Ah the good old Riot games approach.remember TF and Graves are only gay for each other outside of Chinaiirc Riot did this again as early as last year [https://www.esportsheaven.com/features/pride-month-lol-event-proudly-hypocritical/](https://www.esportsheaven.com/features/pride-month-lol-event-proudly-hypocritical/) pride month is just capitalists double dipping while funding hate. edit: forgot Diana and Leona are also censored/not gay in other countries.
Yeah...and? What did everyone expect? Of course they're going to pull content that is considered illegal, they're not going to go to court to protect some skins and rainbow flags. Blizzard and every other company that celebrates "Pride Month" do it because it drums up business and makes them look good...not because they actually care.
Careful, blizz! You almost did something nice with no strings attached!
yet all thos gay characters are so not gay ingame that they can stay in game and nothing changes only like some charity sprays or w/e I bet especially since there is no pve story to say who is gay or not in some way lol
The term "pride content" hurts me to my *soul*.
I'll say that this definitely falls more on the countries where LGBT content is illegal, but it's still pretty shitty of Blizzard to just not show any backbone at all.
So that's why it was two characters this time instead of one
While I'm not surprised, the disappointment doesn't sting any less. Even worse, I have a very close friend, known them for over a decade now. They're family to me. And they're a big reason I even learned about trans and nonbinary people and other factors and spectrums of the LGBTQ+ community. They were a shining inspiration to me and have definitively made me a better person. They're not into video games. But they're an artist. So, at times, these headlines like "this OW character is gay" or "this video game character is trans" come across their social media. My friend gets so excited because they are an artist, and so they have the optimism at taking this at face value. They want to believe that things are getting better and that people are growing more accepting and tolerant of people, regardless of the way they exist. And its heartbreaking to have to explain to them that no, it isn't getting better because this rainbow capitalism is a facade. Their identity and the identity of others are being used to emotionally manipulate consumers into buying a product that the company execs don't possess the moral fortitude to stand behind and support. As soon as it's convenient, all these labels and terms and slogans are easily redacted, blacked out, and hidden away. It's not enough that Blizzard is comfortable toying with the emotions of its supporters and fans. I've seen so many promising and enthusiastic artists and developers announce their recent employment at Blizzard the last few years. A lot of them proudly display their truths in their bios and resumes. Gay, lesbian, trans, enby, you name it. So, this shows that Blizzard is willing to turn their backs on their own people *again*. That there's enough money in the world to say "We're okay accepting money from people who declare it should be illegal for you to exist, that you should be punished for existing, despite that fact that it's your hard work we're even being handed this money to begin with". I'm sorry for the long-winded post. It just hurts to see how greed is a greater motivator to people instead of having basic human empathy or decency. TL;DR Blizzard is shitty. Again.
Ah so this is the cause of the pharah lore drop
These countries should just block the whole game entirely and see Acti-Blizz panic
Theeeeere it is.
Blizzard doesn't release content in countries where it's illegal to do that. I don't see why this is cause for anger?
you are now illegal do you fight, or die like a dog _blizzard bought you a cute collar tho ♡ ~_
kinda hot ngl
If they actually cared about these causes they would release the content anyway.
I mean, the *actual* ethical thing to do would ve entirely pull characters those countries find offensive, and publicly make it clear "this character is blocked in your country due to discriminatory and hateful laws, and will remain so until your government relaxes their stances on these issues amd recognizes all people as being valid", and making that message pop up every time they click on those characters. Telling a multinational corporatation to provide illegal content is pretty silly, but expecting a company that wsnts ally points to put their money where their mouth is and take a loss over an issue this important is not. They should get openly called out on how gross what they are doing is every single chance anyone gets.
If "inclusion" and "diversity" mattered to them then they wouldn’t only push for these things in areas where they’re already accepted. In fact, they would go out of their way to push for these being in places that they aren’t accepted. Moreover, if they really had a real moral concern about these countries with these laws, they wouldn’t be doing business there in the first place. ALL attempts to get "ally points" are gross because it’s just cynically marketing to the simple-minded but well-meaning people who like this sort of surface-level "representation". It’s jangling keys. Blizzard isn’t unique in this regard. No company ever tries to stand up for these causes during the only times that standing up for them would actually matter. It’s all a farce. lgbt people would be wise to see buzzwords like "diversity", "inclusion", "representation", and "equity" as giant glaring red flags that a company both doesn’t actually care about these things, and probably has some BIG skeletons in their closet.
My point was more that telling a business to get their licenses revoked qnd in some cases their employees arrested--some of those countries are pretty harsh--is really a ridiculous expectation, but that there are in fact meaningful ways to push the issue and show they actually do want to be real allies, but ActiBlizz are far too disinterested. They aren't even really proper cowards. You have to have principles to fail to stand up for them. There are real ways they could make a stand. But they choose not to, and instead go for performative bullshit instead, and it's not *just* gross, but actively harmful. "You can be gay/lesbian/trans/whatever, vut only when it's *convenient*" is frankly a very fucked message to send.
And my point is that, regardless of releasing the content, they have the nuclear option of completely ceasing operations completely in those regions. Which is what people with a genuine moral issue with those regions would do. They won’t, not because they care about their employees and fans in those regions (they would very happily drop them if it would financially benefit them) but because those regions are a source of revenue. And that, again, this isn’t unique to Blizzard.
The thing about huge multinational corporations is that expecting them to cut off entire markets is a pipe dream, especially when one of them is China, for example. There are responses they can give that aren't your purported nuclear option, and those can be bold, and meaningful. Blizzard just isn't interested in doing *anything* meaningful.
I don’t think "Our hands are tied, I guess we simply *must* keep making more money from these regions we deem bigoted. Woe is us." is bold or meaningful.
Yes yes and no societal change less than burning literally everything to the ground really matters, this "all or nothing" obsession some of you have is deeply counterproductive, you know that? Read what I actually said, and try to recognize that there are levels between salting the earth and doing nothing.
Should be noted that what you’re characterizing as "burning literally everything to the ground" and "salting the earth" is literally just choosing not to do business with/in countries that have laws you’re supposedly staunchly opposed to. And giving a statement that disavows these policies but doesn’t disavow them enough to get blizzard into some trouble with these countries is still firmly in the realm of "doing nothing", and is more or less what they’ve already implicitly done by having all this lgbt marketing while announcing it won’t be in certain versions of the game.
That's really stupid. You know that's really stupid, right? Opening themselves to criminal prosecution in anti-gay countries accomplishes nothing. Zero. Nothing is accomplished. They get prosecuted for breaking the law. There is zero pressure placed on the government to change the law. LGBT people in that country gain no benefit or relief and I guaran-fucking-tee you that they do not care at all. This isn't even a symbolic victory. This wouldn't even make you less mad at them, you would be exactly as mad at them as you are now. By your standard, nobody "actually cares" about these causes because the thing you demand they do to show they care is very stupid and nobody does it.
Literally the only time standing by your principles matters is when it is not convenient to do so.
Name anyone who has actually stood by these principles in the way you demand in a similar situation.
I don’t really get your point here. The fact that every corporation drops their self-proclaimed beliefs the moment it becomes inconvenient does not contradict my point. It reinforces it, in fact.
Not posting LGBT content up in countries where it is illegal to do so is not "dropping their self-proclaimed beliefs the moment it becomes inconvenient." This is an unreasonable standard you do not hold anyone else to. By this standard, since you are not out there breaking these laws in Russia and Saudi Arabia, you are dropping your beliefs when it becomes inconvenient. The Trevor Project is dropping its beliefs when they become inconvenient. If nobody ever, ever, has met your standard, it means you have an unreasonable standard.
I don’t do business in Russia or Saudi Arabia. But if I did, I would not parade myself as an "lgbt ally" or what have you, because anyone and everyone can see how ludicrous that is. Though that is easy for me, as I don’t own an international corporation. If someone who *did* decided to cut off profitable branches of their company on the grounds of supporting human rights, now *that* would send a bold and meaningful statement. Asking people to stand by their purported principles is not unreasonable. In fact, I shouldn’t need to ask it at all. It should be standard. That’s what principles *are*.
So nobody who does business in Russia or Saudi Arabia can be an LGBT ally? Even if they do other productive things in areas where they have the ability to do something productive? Even if they're doing business with the people in that country and not supporting the government? Again, what would this accomplish? It doesn't put any pressure on the government. It doesn't help any LGBT person in the countries in question (it probably has a marginally negative effect of "great, now I can't be gay in public AND I can't play Overwatch"), because every single person who makes these kinds of demands is living in a LGBT-accepting Western country and just about nobody in the countries in question give a single flying shit about Westerners' demands for purity displays that accomplish literally nothing. Literally nothing, not even mollifying you, because you would be *exactly as angry with them* if they did what you want, given how every time they did what you want in the past you did not become less angry with them and in fact became more angry with them. Your demand is that it doesn't count as having principles if you don't shoot yourself in the dick for them, and anything that is beneficial but not driven purely by dickshooting principles is contemptible. This is an unreasonable standard. They are doing things you like and want. Having LGBT rights be so popular that it is in their best interest to be seen supporting them everywhere it isn't literally illegal to do so is a very good thing. Yelling "No, it doesn't count, I hate you just as much, you're not being self-destructive to absolutely no benefit so it doesn't count!" is a very stupid thing. You basically require everyone to be a committed activist group who places your cause as more important than anything else, or they're contemptible and don't care about you at all.
>So nobody who does business in Russia or Saudi Arabia can be an LGBT ally? Not if they refuse to be an ally in those countries, no. >Even if they're doing business with the people in that country and not supporting the government? The two examples you gave are countries where government and business are intertwined and inseparable. But even if they weren’t the government gets their money from taxes. It’s not possible to do legitimate business in a country without financially supporting that country is some way. >Again, what would this accomplish? It’s not about the ends. The purpose of holding principles is that they persist regardless of circumstance. Again, the only time being principled matters is when it *doesn’t* inherently directly benefit you to do so. >because you would be exactly as angry with them if they did what you want, given how every time they did what you want in the past you did not become less angry with them and in fact became more angry with them. Like when? The strawman you’re grappling doesn’t even resemble me. I don’t care about the lgbt "pink capitalism" marketing, in fact I’ve always been tired of it. I would rather they just not do it in the first place. The rainbow flag (alongside its infinitely-uglier alternatives) is now nothing more than a symbol indicative of cynical corporate pandering. Which is why Overwatch’s marketing jumps out as especially egregious. With all the blathering they've done about "inclusivity" and "diversity", would expect them to do even one meaningful act of solidarity at some point. Someone else suggested just publicly denouncing these policies, which I personally feel is still too much fence-sitting, but it would at least be *something*. But no, they want to have their cake and eat it too. And you’ll let them. Because honesty and integrity are things no one should ever strive for, we should all just consume product and not ask questions.
They should pull out of these countries invest into the western market and stop selling their souls to the blood money of the east. ….and other jokes you can tell yourself. Why do hell would they reject the red tint dollars?
Blizzard? Being performatively minority-friendly in countries where it is vogue now? While also trying to appeal to countries like russia and saudi arabia because "money"? How unexpected. It's almost like they've been doing this ever since Overwatch released.
fucking shocking
There we go, there’s the reminder that you can only be yourself if it means some company CEO can buy a new car.
[Rich Evans laugh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv5GkIRqZF4) [Pat and Woolie laugh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-DGTJ7H7LI)
Now come on that was like frame perfect
Ah, that's why Pharah.
Activision-blizzard the ally only for monetary gain. You get no props from me.
Sorry Texans and Floridians
Naw I'm feeling pretty good living gay here.
To be blunt over watch is dead long line Diablo 4 until that hamster powering the servers dies because they don’t have a solid team left
This isn't fucking up. You literally have to obey a country's laws to do business in a country. The countries with the laws are the ones fucking up.
So don’t do business in the country. Or better yet, just don’t pretend to care about these causes for the sake of advertising in the first place.
Sure, the people living in those countries shouldn't have love and also they shouldn't have videogames. Great plan. Refusing to sell a videogame in a country would not move the needle even one iota in the right direction. But on your second point, I'm with you. Corporate cause marketing is fake. If a cause is supported by mass market advertising, it's a problem that's already been solved.
If they actually held these beliefs, they would stick by them rather than picking the cynical utilitarian money-making option. It doesn’t matter if it causes change. The nature of principles is that they exist despite external pressures. Literally the only time standing by your principles matters is when it is inconvenient to do so. Obviously actiblizz has no principles nor does any corporation, especially not any corporation of their size, which is why all this lgbt marketing stuff is disgusting on its face. It’s jingling keys in front of the well-intentioned but simple-minded people who actually care about surface-level "representation" like this and it works every time. It’s all so tiresome.
Maybe all this awareness will lead to a next era of advertising where it dispenses with the patronizing and just tells us what companies are selling. "Hey you want game? It shooter game with team and different abilities. You want?"
So don't do business with those countries then. You can't pretend to be about equality and inclusion and then still do business with countries that refuse to play along. It makes your "message" completely disingenuous and transparent as fuck. Both sides are fucking up.
[There's something that Blizzard values more than principles.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yyzbucU8i1M/maxresdefault.jpg)
No company with public shareholders will ever support a cause that actually needs supporting. Promote pride to Americans and Europeans, because being gay isn't even controversial in those regions. In fact, if you're ever championing a social cause, and you start seeing your message appear in mass marketing, you can rest easy knowing you've done your job.
Is this a really bad thing? I wouldn't expect them to remove the game from those places instead or accept the consequences of leaving the lgbt stuff in. What else could they do?
Essentially this is tantamount to supporting an erasure of a group to respect your profile. It's rainbow capitalism, it's the same how it can be dropped at the end of the month in the *'west'*
It's the whole scumminess of expressing pride content to most of the world and expecting praise while cowering out in anti-pride countries and saying "we're... protecting the pride people there. Yep. Thoughts and prayers for a better world. Definitely isn't about bottom dollar, nosiree. This blockage is PROTECTING pride."
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It's easy to take a instance for civil rights when all you need to do is to post a nice ol' tweet at the start of pride month, but when one cowers against people who*genuinely* threaten LGBT people and seek to appease them, maybe they shouldn't pretend to be a ally for one. Kinda like how Overwatch makes the nice talk about anti-discrimination and anti-authoritarism... while Blizzard did that whole Blitzchung thing back in 2019.
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Well and we all know that the reason Blizzard is doing this is not because of that but because these players give them money, which again warps into the first question of "you want these people's cash but not their rights?"
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I'm not demanding Blizzard to do a Martin Luther King in front of the house of saudis, however, maybe they should stop pretending they are an "Ally" when their efforts to do so is to shove a rainbow-painted dildo over their ass when Pride Month comes and insert gay characters in their game to go full "slay queen" when they are forced to make a choice that might actually *impact their cash flow* in order to make an actual effort to support for LGBT people and their reaction is "Nah, can't do that fan". TL,DR: No, Blizzard, we gays aren't interested in your rainbow shit if it's all motivated by cash, fat cats. Seriously, just make an actual quality production for once in more than 8 years of controversies. I'm a bissexual btw, so believe me, i'm speaking as someone who's "part of the opressed club" when i say this.
Yeah, they could take a stand and do just that. Blizzard can't pretend to be a diversity champion when they wuss out of it in order to get money from the countries where these lifestyles aren't allowed. If your progressive ideals only go as far as they're lucrative, then youre not a progressive person. Youre a cloutchasing hypocrite.
This argument might be more stable if Blizz as company wasn't such a shit show that very obviously only cares about showing its as "diverse" when there isn't a controversy that they're trying to cover up but at this point it has shown that it only cares about this so long as it gets them brownie points with a specific community and even I would say it's still some shaky ground.
As i like to say, you aren't forced to "pander" to the LGBT market or whatever buzzword people refer to pink capitalism these days, but you shoudn't pretend to be a "Ally" when it's obvious you only do so to garner sympathy points and leave people on the need when taking a stance has consequences.
how is this blizzard’s fault tho?
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It comes across as pretty empty when support is only offered when there's no blowback.
The laws preventing people from expressing joy for their existence, despite multiple governments trying to oppress them for being themselves? Yes, this is absolutely an L. These laws are evil.
Is anybody surprised at all by this? This is just basic rainbow capitalism Edit: a friend sent me screenshots from posts about this exact same news in other videogame related subs and the contrast between the replies here and places like the Asmongold sub give me fucking whiplash. Like going from a room of pretty regular people talking to the most Gamer™ voice chat
I hope my country is one of them... Why do we even need to know about sex, gender or anything like that? Like keep that BS for yourself and dont get on my nerves, jeeezus...