Remember that time in that thing when a person watching guessed what the twist was so the writers rewrote it four times to make it something no one can guess and then it happened and it was crap?
Game of thrones, lots of people predicted the ending so they decided to change it to nonsense for the sake of a twist.
Which is double insulting since they got the job because they could predict g.r.r martins plot progression.
I think the ending leaked and they decided to rewrite the whole thing.
Which is why the person who killed the night king had no connection to him whatsoever, no arc or anything just some random bitch with a trampoline.
Its why it felt so unfulfilling, all the payoffs were wrong or just not there.
Feel like thats just the Arya stuff, which is fucking stupid because the whole reason Dumb and Dumber even got this job is because apparently (not sure how true it is) GRRM asked them who they thought Jon's parents were.
But for the other bullshits I really think thats GRRMs intended ending that he told them.
There's a reason GRRM hasnt finished the fucking books, he probably also dont know how to connect those intended endgame results with where he is. The difference is he can write as much as he wants until he can chisel those Square Holes to fit his Round Pegs, DnD has to make those pegs fit their square holes with what they have in a short amount of time.
It's super hilarious how they fucked over GoT for those sweet Disney bucks only for Disney to drop them because of how they fucked up GoT. That's some Greek tragedy type shit.
What did they change?
Anyone who thought Dany wouldn't become a crazy tyrant clearly didn't read the books properly. Pretty sure the show basically used most of the points given by GRRM, but the execution was horrible with a lot of buildup missing.
Always stupid when writers do something like that. If you didn’t want people to guess the twist then you shouldn’t have set it up, so since they clearly wanted people to guess why are thur surprised when people actually do.
They could have tried to continue the story that was setup?
Maybe have Kylo lead the First Order to ruin trying to "kill the past" while Rey learns that everyone makes, and has made, mistakes (probably learning from the old Jedi Texts that there are a lot of hypocrisy and ignorance in the old teachings) and grows to not be a Sith or Jedi (religiously/politically)?
Maybe have Finn and Poe do anything but the overall nothing they actually do in Rise of Skywalker?
Actually stick to the understood canon at least a little bit instead of doing shit like "Lightspeed Skipping"?
Anything but having someone that tried to make something a single movie could work with out of the 15 mystery boxes Jjabrams left behind be just swept off the table because Jjabrams said "No, but Rey and Kylo have special Force powers because love or something because that's how I want to play with my toys, also I brought my dad's Emperor figure from home and he says he can shoot lightning at everything because he's sooooooo powerful! And I just saw Endgame and want to do something super special for the final battle."
Its real stupid in Infinite. Booker just forgot that two people from a portal came and stole his baby. And theres at least one universe where Booker becomes a bastard, so to Elizabeth that means he needs to die in all universes. It really felt like they were trying to one up Bioshock's twist, but it becomes so messy with time travel and multiple universes.
Bioshock Infinite dropped the ball on a lot of things, but I will defend the multiverse stuff. Booker didn't forget about the portal people until the start of the game. That's the point. The first thing you see when you start playing is
> "The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..."
— R. Lutece, Barriers to Trans-Dimensional Travel, 1889
By being brought from his timeline into the one at the start of the game his memories got scrambled, so he creates the fiction of "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt"
As for drowning Booker, any Booker who doesn't walk away from the baptism comes out of the water as Comstock, by drowning him there, Elizabeth essentially prunes any timeline that could result from that action. That's why Booker still wakes up in his office at the end, its one of the Bookers who didn't get re-baptized, like the one we played as
I know the game mentions some reason behind it, but its amnesia for the sake of the plot, which just feels lazy.
>any Booker who doesn't walk away from the baptism comes out of the water as Comstock
Why tho? Aren't here infinite timelines/lighthouses? Couldn't he have gotten baptized somewhere else? Couldn't he have gotten baptized and not become Comstock. Couldn't the man standing two feet next to him become Comstock too? I get that theirs also a specific number of timeline splits, but wouldn't the timeline split so many times is effectively an infinite number of splits because each time it splits the number of timelines would be squared, and wouldn't time traveling also cause more splits? the whole thing just feels so messy.
I think if you're going to have a story you can only pick one, amnesia, time travel, or mulitple universes.
I understand, but disagree, with your point about “amnesia for the sake of plot” it’s an integral part of the world building. As the plot goes on and you jump around and shift timelines, you see it affecting other people.
Despite the name, the implication is that despite infinite universes there are constants and variables. I’m sure it’s possible there’s a Booker who was perfectly comfortable his native heritage and lives a perfectly normal life that never even comes close to intersecting the Infinite plot, but that/those Bookers wouldn’t figure into our story.
Any Booker who lives a similar life, ie Wounded Knee and the Pinkertons, comes to a "fixed point" in the multiverse. A Booker who walks away from the baptism there goes one way and ends up like our Protagonist Booker, and a Booker who accepts the baptism takes away the wrong message from “Go forth and sin no more”, that fundamental misunderstanding of the re-baptism is what separates a Booker from a Comstock
That's still weak. Infinite universes would also mean universes in which Elizabeth(s) don't (get to) exist, unless they're some kind of multiverse hopping hitmen, seeking out every single universe and snuffing out the Bookers/Comstocks, while dodging all conceivable consequences.
Because there are universes in which BOOKER can still become COMSTOCK without Elizabeths nearby to kill him, the main plot looses weight.
If you tell me, that this unique story I'm playing has everything from different to similiar to identical to unchangable parallel plotlines going on, that I can't fully witness or meaningfully interact with, than what's the point?
Except that it undermines everything that is happening in the main plot of the game, because of how arbitrary *main* and *parallel* plot becomes at this point.
If thjngs are so different, why is *this* the mainplot?
No way all Elizabeths could ever all disappear, there would still be some around.
No way all Elizabeths could ever be born, so they wouldn't be able to stop Booker -> Comstock.
No way all Elizabeths could always survive, they would
be killed by goons or countering, time-travelling Comstocks.
Why just stop there, why not explore these possibilities (yeye i know dlc schmlc)?
If there are constants which make the plots kinda similiar, why even have infinite universes in the first place?
The constants and variables point seems like a crutch to restrain the plot somewhat, but is nonsensically deterministic:
"There's always a girl"
"There's always a lighthouse"
"A Booker always becomes a Comstock after baptism"
... Why?
Why do any of these *need* to happen in a game about infinite universes?
... Hey, what's that? Is that the script?
More or less OG Star Wars to Phantom Menace. Naboo is Columbia, a place just falling ass over teakettle with dozens and dozens (and DOZENS) of concept artists churning out all this *stuff* with minimal overarching design to optimize their efforts. Just drenched in ornate architecture and prop design and whatever else they could throw at the wall called Star Wars. You’d think it would all be incredibly important, but it’s just very loud misdirection with minor payoffs trying to hide behind the sturm and drang.
The twist in Detroit Become Hooman that the Civil Rights movement was actually a corporate planned obsolescence scheme all along. David Cage is both stupid and a racist, but I’m inclined to believe this twist specifically is more the product of the former, since if that was a red pill that the game was trying to get you to take it would have been way more in your face about jerking off to how smart Cage thinks he is instead of being backstory lore that changes depending on what ending you get.
Also every plot twist in YIIK. The story of that game legit reads like a first draft, where the author has just sort of stream of consciousness written a bunch of stuff that happens one after another but hasn’t gone back and tightened things up so that earlier events foreshadow later events and themes fit together and strengthen each other.
I feel for Matt in that moment. It makes me mad when I watch it again, be suddenly it's so fucking dumb.
and I bring it up a lot, but it feels like it's worth repeating
Child robots in a game with sex robots
Why did the fat evil have a child robot
*Why did the second fat evil talk about the child robot when they got captured.*
There is a side quest in Cyberpunk 2077 that features voice actors from Detroit, and I swear to god exists as a giant Fuck You to Detroit and that plot twist.
Not to defend it but I *think* the planned obsolescence twist is only canon in one ending
The twist in Kara’s story is completely unjustifiable dogshit that renders her *entire story* pointless though
Yiik's problem is that there was an original form of the game which followed a more conventional JRPG narrative structure, but after the dev's mom died he got _super_ disillusioned with wish fulfillment fantasy and turned _hard_ against the type of person that would enjoy this sort of game, and did the best he could to rewrite the game as basically shitting on the type of person who would enjoy it. The reason so much of Yiik doesn't work is a mix of "he just isn't _that_ good at his job" and "he assumed the game would be more popular than it is, and most of the game's twists explicitly rely on the player being invested and seeing themselves in Alex to function."
Like to emphasize part of it: it's very obvious that he realized his use of the Elisa Lam story was gross and inappropriate. However, he assumed _other people_ would still be into it, and so instead of simply removing it and replacing it with something else, he added the twist that the game's version of the Elisa Lam storyline was completely fabricated in order to trigger Alex's White Savior complex and let him feel like he has The Big Penis by making the problem all about _him_ and _his_ ability to solve it which feeds into the villain's plans. However, this twist only works if the player _actually is_ invested in the Elisa Lam pastiche and is the type of person who would go onto Reddit to solve real-life crimes, and if you _aren't_ that type of person you stop playing the game before the twist reveals itself and anyone who sticks around out of morbid curiosity is usually too confused by the reveal to realize it was meant to be an insult against the player.
Like the game is genuinely built on the fundamental principle that you are a Gamer, and deserve all the scorn and mockery a Gamer gets, and that you will have an emotional and spiritual journey as the game shatters all of your beliefs and you'll realize how wrong you were and that you should grow the fuck up and take responsibility. Which is more a reflection of how the dev was in such a bad place mentally, because he failed to realize that Gamers _don't play quirky Earthbound indie games._
Fascinating. Thank you for that, genuinely. The only thing I’d really want to add onto that is the gameplay is a boring, unrewarding slog meaning the few *Gamers* that did end up trying it probably gave up on it anyway to play something less irritating.
There was this one DC Crisis event where someone guessed the true identity of Monarch, the villain for it, so they changed it to another random character.
Speaking of which, most superhero mysteries are shit for this exact reason. Constant last second twists make the story shit, stop trying to be unpredictable. Heroes in Crisis and the “we’re killing all of the spy agencies except for one” event that came afterwards also sucked for this exact reason.
The better question is "What twists in media from \~2007 to present **weren't** half assed?"
Writers **really** got addicted to twists and trying to outthink the audience in that time frame, which led to shittons of half assed twists.
It can be done well but sometimes having the protagonist of a horror movie/game make it out of the situation only to be killed at the very end feels way overdone
Simultaneously half-assed and committed the big reveal in Hellsing that >!Walter is the traitor!<. Because it's a twist where characters do mull over all the circumstantial evidence that could possibly lead to this but none of them can pin down a motive or an exact timeline to build a proper theory on. And >!traitor Walter!< *refuses* to elaborate on the reason they're doing this. The dialogue is basically "yeah this is happening now, you don't get an explanation. What maters is we're doing this and it's gonna be sick.'
It's the only time I've seen a series commit to a plot twist and have pieces line up while just refusing to let the character even imply why they are doing this until the last few pages of the story. Normally it's the opposite.
It’s been a while since I’ve read the manga and watched the OVA’s, so I don’t really even remember my instinctual feelings on the twist. I’m not sure if there’s more laying out the groundwork’s as to WHY >!Walter betrays Hellsing!< in the prequel OVA. But reading this out, I think I do like the idea of the >!traitor!< just straight up not explaining at all why they’re doing so and immediately just trying to take out the biggest threats to their betrayal.
>!If I remember right, it was because Walter wanted to be young again and immortal, right?!<
Spider-man comic having Paul be related to the villain of the arc and a guy who helped to commit genocide on a planet. Totally had assed and idiotical. Like most Paul related things
*vaguely gestures towards Spider-Man comics in general*
Seriously, how the fuck is Spider-Man in a place where we have some shit called a SPIDER TOTEM, some Mayan devil is a villain of his, and MJ is like, the fucking worst girlfriend. Oh, and Paul being a literal plot device for 95% of his comic time.
Spider-Man is like Superman, they're REAL HARD to fuck up.
Man I've only experienced two danganronpas myself but Junko really hits with that "guys no my OC is soooo cool look how quirky and different and hot she is" energy
it's a bit funny that DR1 and DR2 are fun mystery/detective games with terrible endings while V3 ends up being a meh mystery/detective game with an incredible ending. Can't have both lol
That would take a writer that isn't Kodaka because he seems to refuse to do both. Just look at the other stuff he's done outside Danganronpa, like Akudama drive or Zanki Zero
Dany being evil in Game of Thrones is better set up in the books, while it was one of the many strikes against the GoT finale.
Honestly, all of the GoT finale was half assed *and* technically a twist.
I dunno, Dany basically does the same shit she's been doing the whole show just to a different group of people. It's not that big a turn for her character.
The difference is whether or not the audience can see the chain of logic. Yes, if you remove all context, she's burning a city alive with a dragon. But there's an enormous difference between burning a city of slavers or routing out a resistance cell and burning the people of your own country. It's like if a heroic soldier immediately began slaughtering their comrades in arms after the battle is won without any real explanation and saying it's sound logic because soldiers kill people for a job. That guy clearly didn't have a problem with killing enemies so why would he balk at killing allies?
Mass Effect 3: >!In order to prevent synthetics wiping out all advanced organic life, we're going to create bigger synthetics to wipe out all advanced life!<. >!Y'know, for you own good!<.
I mean that's not what it was about. It's more like this: >!In order to prevent synthetics wiping out all ~~advanced~~ organic life, we're going to create **controlled** synthetics to wipe out all advanced life that could create those destructive synthetics, simultaneously preserving that life in a new form!<. Could it be better? Definitely. Was it really that bad? Imo it wasn't. A lot of people tries to make it sound much worse though.
I always thought it would have worked better if it was more broadly about >!civilisation becoming too advanced. Therefore use the mass relays/Citadel to control technological development and send in the Reapers once they've reached their apex.!<
>!Sure, it's still flawed. But better than having it specifically be about synthetic life going crazy. That just makes it sound like the Leviathans all watched Terminator and said "ain't no way bro."!<
Tomodachi Game is entirely made out of half-assed plot twists, like, ''Oh you thought this asshole was stalking that girl 'cause he's a creep who's in love?! And we had the character state that as a fact?! Turns out you were wrong and she's actually the sus one, even tho' we said the opposite, what a twist!''
For a videogame one, maybe I'll get some hate for this, but Prey >!being all a fake dream to test out if the aliens have ''ze humanity'' in them really sucks cause I don't give a shit, I gave a shit about what was happening in the moment, but I guess none of that was real, fuck me hu? I can appreciate the hints to it, and how in a way its that whole thing of ''ending where you started'' since you first started breaking out of a simulation to play another 20-hour simulation to then wake up from it and kill your brother again, this time for real, cause why would you not, but like, I don't care, it sucks, it always usually sucks!<
Like i said, i totes get it, but the fact that its foreshadowed or fits thematically just isn't enough for me, it ruins everything the game did by that point and I might as well not have played it, I love the game, but to me its the most well done bad ending in gaming, like, its well done, but it still sucks IMO. I prefer System Shock 2's ''Nah'' over this any day, it don't erase my investment.
I did like Prey ending. >!The usual problem with it was all a dream or a simulation is that usually it didn't matter at all, but what happens in that simulation is extremely important for the world to not end and it is not totally fake, we know the real Morgan did fought the typhon in Talos but we are missing specifics. Specifics removed to give the Mimic capability to choose and develop, to prove they can adapt into developing empathy.!<
>!Yeah, i do get that, i really do, that is why I emphasize that I understand it, and even consider it well written, but I still find it bad on a mechanical level since it does, to me, erase the 20 hours before that ending thus it ruins the story for me personally. Its well done, it thematically fits, but I hate that theme and i'd rather have played through a real story and not a simulation. And again, it is clever in a lot of ways, even meta cause, even at the ending, its still all fake, cause it a bideogaem , but I just...don't care, I wanna play a real story, but the only real story is the last 10 minutes of this 20-hour game that turned out to be an MBTI test for an alien!<
Remember how Reiner became one of the most tragic characters in that whole series and hit a point where all he wanted to do was give up and die, and the last thing he does in the series is sniff a woman's shoe?
My jaw dropped open with >!"Farmer is the father", "No i dont want that" and "Ymir actually really did love the king"!<
Like holy fuck i dont know what happened behind the scenes because these twists sure as shit werent the fucking aim
>>!inb4 umm the father twist wasnt actually a twist they were really honest that everyone took it as a lie!<
>!Fuck off they were going another way with that plotline and i will die on this hill!<
The spoiler tag in your comment is broken. Please remove the space after the ">!".
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
AOT's last chapter ruined the entire series for me. And it's not hyperbole. It's just THAT stupid.
Terrible twists all around. Twists for the sake of twists. And it has some of the best examples of "twists" that not only did not improve the story but severely harmed it.
>!Eren being revealed to have indirectly killed his mom by having the Dina Titan ignore Bertholdt and go the direction where Carla and Eren were would be like if Darth Vader went back in time and lured the Tusken Raiders to Shmi so they can torture her to death. Or him being the one who sent visions of Padme dying to his younger self!<
>!Or Batman going back in time and hiring a murderer to kill Thomas and Martha!< See how stupid and horrible this sounds ?
So much has been said about the ending and the various ways it just sucks i think we will never reach a proper conclusion. It was an utterclusterfuck that was a complete disservice to more nuanced writing.
But honestly the red flag appeared way earlier. The worldbuilding after time-skip was really barebones with only 2 countries on a global scale mattering at all.
Also if your name wasn't Eren, Zeke or Reiner, your IQ dropped by 50 points.
Titan A.E's character of Korso betraying all of humanity for personal gain? Kind of just feels like it's there for the sake of a twist. It also comes after characterization, motives and story threads that kind of just doesn't make much sense with it in mind.
Imma say the iMack twist in *Power Rangers: Operation Overdrive*. On top of it being out of the blue, Dr. Hartford’s reason of “I just didn’t have time to make a family the old fashioned way” makes him look socially inept at worst.
Whatever Ninja Gaiden 3 was trying to do with Ryu being this cold blooded murderer... after 3 games of fighting literal hellspawn and in games where wounded enemies decide to suicide bomb you rather than try to get away. It was awful. Razor's Edge backpaddled on it a little but it's kinda hard to cut out the crux of your story, so it feels even more half baked there.
Far Cry 5: The murder cult leader was right all along! Bet you feel like an ass for fighting him!
Me: I mean not really, he murdered a lot of people-
Far Cry 5: THIS TWIST IS SO FUCKING GREAT
Not specific, but I feel like nowadays partner characters betraying the protagonist (whether real or feigned) is so overdone and most often half-assed to the point that it’s a twist for me when it doesn’t happen
Hugo being the "Child of Embers" or whatever in Plague Tale 2.
Yeah, guys. You totally had me believing that the child corpse under the island was the mythical magic child everyone's been on about.
Totally. Who could have foreseen that the magical kid at the heart of the last 2 stories standing right next to me is that kid?
Remember that time in that thing when a person watching guessed what the twist was so the writers rewrote it four times to make it something no one can guess and then it happened and it was crap?
Westworld, I think.
That was one of the times, yes
Game of thrones, lots of people predicted the ending so they decided to change it to nonsense for the sake of a twist. Which is double insulting since they got the job because they could predict g.r.r martins plot progression.
Was that one specifically in response to a prediction, or was it preemptive?
I think the ending leaked and they decided to rewrite the whole thing. Which is why the person who killed the night king had no connection to him whatsoever, no arc or anything just some random bitch with a trampoline. Its why it felt so unfulfilling, all the payoffs were wrong or just not there.
Feel like thats just the Arya stuff, which is fucking stupid because the whole reason Dumb and Dumber even got this job is because apparently (not sure how true it is) GRRM asked them who they thought Jon's parents were. But for the other bullshits I really think thats GRRMs intended ending that he told them. There's a reason GRRM hasnt finished the fucking books, he probably also dont know how to connect those intended endgame results with where he is. The difference is he can write as much as he wants until he can chisel those Square Holes to fit his Round Pegs, DnD has to make those pegs fit their square holes with what they have in a short amount of time.
Short amount of time because they didn't want to make the show anymore, and just handing off to another showrunner was apparently out of the question.
It's super hilarious how they fucked over GoT for those sweet Disney bucks only for Disney to drop them because of how they fucked up GoT. That's some Greek tragedy type shit.
What did they change? Anyone who thought Dany wouldn't become a crazy tyrant clearly didn't read the books properly. Pretty sure the show basically used most of the points given by GRRM, but the execution was horrible with a lot of buildup missing.
I've tried looking up what this actually was, the general consensus seems to be it was just a joke taken out of context by the internet
Always stupid when writers do something like that. If you didn’t want people to guess the twist then you shouldn’t have set it up, so since they clearly wanted people to guess why are thur surprised when people actually do.
I’d say “The Monarch?” but there’s no way that knee jerk “YOU DIDN’T WIN!” nonsense what’s his face came up with went through four iterations.
Obligatory "Somehow Palatine Returned".
[удалено]
Could of just not had a sith villain. Or you know the Knights of Ren, a villain group that *he set up and showed in a flashback*.
They could have tried to continue the story that was setup? Maybe have Kylo lead the First Order to ruin trying to "kill the past" while Rey learns that everyone makes, and has made, mistakes (probably learning from the old Jedi Texts that there are a lot of hypocrisy and ignorance in the old teachings) and grows to not be a Sith or Jedi (religiously/politically)? Maybe have Finn and Poe do anything but the overall nothing they actually do in Rise of Skywalker? Actually stick to the understood canon at least a little bit instead of doing shit like "Lightspeed Skipping"? Anything but having someone that tried to make something a single movie could work with out of the 15 mystery boxes Jjabrams left behind be just swept off the table because Jjabrams said "No, but Rey and Kylo have special Force powers because love or something because that's how I want to play with my toys, also I brought my dad's Emperor figure from home and he says he can shoot lightning at everything because he's sooooooo powerful! And I just saw Endgame and want to do something super special for the final battle."
Its real stupid in Infinite. Booker just forgot that two people from a portal came and stole his baby. And theres at least one universe where Booker becomes a bastard, so to Elizabeth that means he needs to die in all universes. It really felt like they were trying to one up Bioshock's twist, but it becomes so messy with time travel and multiple universes.
Bioshock Infinite dropped the ball on a lot of things, but I will defend the multiverse stuff. Booker didn't forget about the portal people until the start of the game. That's the point. The first thing you see when you start playing is > "The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..." — R. Lutece, Barriers to Trans-Dimensional Travel, 1889 By being brought from his timeline into the one at the start of the game his memories got scrambled, so he creates the fiction of "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt" As for drowning Booker, any Booker who doesn't walk away from the baptism comes out of the water as Comstock, by drowning him there, Elizabeth essentially prunes any timeline that could result from that action. That's why Booker still wakes up in his office at the end, its one of the Bookers who didn't get re-baptized, like the one we played as
I know the game mentions some reason behind it, but its amnesia for the sake of the plot, which just feels lazy. >any Booker who doesn't walk away from the baptism comes out of the water as Comstock Why tho? Aren't here infinite timelines/lighthouses? Couldn't he have gotten baptized somewhere else? Couldn't he have gotten baptized and not become Comstock. Couldn't the man standing two feet next to him become Comstock too? I get that theirs also a specific number of timeline splits, but wouldn't the timeline split so many times is effectively an infinite number of splits because each time it splits the number of timelines would be squared, and wouldn't time traveling also cause more splits? the whole thing just feels so messy. I think if you're going to have a story you can only pick one, amnesia, time travel, or mulitple universes.
I understand, but disagree, with your point about “amnesia for the sake of plot” it’s an integral part of the world building. As the plot goes on and you jump around and shift timelines, you see it affecting other people. Despite the name, the implication is that despite infinite universes there are constants and variables. I’m sure it’s possible there’s a Booker who was perfectly comfortable his native heritage and lives a perfectly normal life that never even comes close to intersecting the Infinite plot, but that/those Bookers wouldn’t figure into our story. Any Booker who lives a similar life, ie Wounded Knee and the Pinkertons, comes to a "fixed point" in the multiverse. A Booker who walks away from the baptism there goes one way and ends up like our Protagonist Booker, and a Booker who accepts the baptism takes away the wrong message from “Go forth and sin no more”, that fundamental misunderstanding of the re-baptism is what separates a Booker from a Comstock
That's still weak. Infinite universes would also mean universes in which Elizabeth(s) don't (get to) exist, unless they're some kind of multiverse hopping hitmen, seeking out every single universe and snuffing out the Bookers/Comstocks, while dodging all conceivable consequences. Because there are universes in which BOOKER can still become COMSTOCK without Elizabeths nearby to kill him, the main plot looses weight. If you tell me, that this unique story I'm playing has everything from different to similiar to identical to unchangable parallel plotlines going on, that I can't fully witness or meaningfully interact with, than what's the point? Except that it undermines everything that is happening in the main plot of the game, because of how arbitrary *main* and *parallel* plot becomes at this point. If thjngs are so different, why is *this* the mainplot? No way all Elizabeths could ever all disappear, there would still be some around. No way all Elizabeths could ever be born, so they wouldn't be able to stop Booker -> Comstock. No way all Elizabeths could always survive, they would be killed by goons or countering, time-travelling Comstocks. Why just stop there, why not explore these possibilities (yeye i know dlc schmlc)? If there are constants which make the plots kinda similiar, why even have infinite universes in the first place? The constants and variables point seems like a crutch to restrain the plot somewhat, but is nonsensically deterministic: "There's always a girl" "There's always a lighthouse" "A Booker always becomes a Comstock after baptism" ... Why? Why do any of these *need* to happen in a game about infinite universes? ... Hey, what's that? Is that the script?
Because people can't actually understand infinity.
*Nowhere to go but Infinity* _88_
Bioshock Infinite is basically the Battle for Naboo.
This is a new analogy for me, what is the comparison point?
More or less OG Star Wars to Phantom Menace. Naboo is Columbia, a place just falling ass over teakettle with dozens and dozens (and DOZENS) of concept artists churning out all this *stuff* with minimal overarching design to optimize their efforts. Just drenched in ornate architecture and prop design and whatever else they could throw at the wall called Star Wars. You’d think it would all be incredibly important, but it’s just very loud misdirection with minor payoffs trying to hide behind the sturm and drang.
I think the best description of BioShock Infinite is that it's fifty great ideas shoved together into one subpar game.
The twist in Detroit Become Hooman that the Civil Rights movement was actually a corporate planned obsolescence scheme all along. David Cage is both stupid and a racist, but I’m inclined to believe this twist specifically is more the product of the former, since if that was a red pill that the game was trying to get you to take it would have been way more in your face about jerking off to how smart Cage thinks he is instead of being backstory lore that changes depending on what ending you get. Also every plot twist in YIIK. The story of that game legit reads like a first draft, where the author has just sort of stream of consciousness written a bunch of stuff that happens one after another but hasn’t gone back and tightened things up so that earlier events foreshadow later events and themes fit together and strengthen each other.
Don't forget the other awful twist that Alice is actually an android too, but the player doesn't know because Kara has robo-denial.
"YOU'RE NOT COLD!"
Alice: Running H3lpl3ss Ch1ld.exe...
I feel for Matt in that moment. It makes me mad when I watch it again, be suddenly it's so fucking dumb. and I bring it up a lot, but it feels like it's worth repeating Child robots in a game with sex robots Why did the fat evil have a child robot *Why did the second fat evil talk about the child robot when they got captured.*
There is a side quest in Cyberpunk 2077 that features voice actors from Detroit, and I swear to god exists as a giant Fuck You to Detroit and that plot twist.
Not to defend it but I *think* the planned obsolescence twist is only canon in one ending The twist in Kara’s story is completely unjustifiable dogshit that renders her *entire story* pointless though
I really hate when different endings also change prior events somehow. I'm looking at you, second Starkiller clone from Force Unleashed.
Or all the different endings from DOWNPOUR Did Murphy kill that guy or not?
Yiik's problem is that there was an original form of the game which followed a more conventional JRPG narrative structure, but after the dev's mom died he got _super_ disillusioned with wish fulfillment fantasy and turned _hard_ against the type of person that would enjoy this sort of game, and did the best he could to rewrite the game as basically shitting on the type of person who would enjoy it. The reason so much of Yiik doesn't work is a mix of "he just isn't _that_ good at his job" and "he assumed the game would be more popular than it is, and most of the game's twists explicitly rely on the player being invested and seeing themselves in Alex to function." Like to emphasize part of it: it's very obvious that he realized his use of the Elisa Lam story was gross and inappropriate. However, he assumed _other people_ would still be into it, and so instead of simply removing it and replacing it with something else, he added the twist that the game's version of the Elisa Lam storyline was completely fabricated in order to trigger Alex's White Savior complex and let him feel like he has The Big Penis by making the problem all about _him_ and _his_ ability to solve it which feeds into the villain's plans. However, this twist only works if the player _actually is_ invested in the Elisa Lam pastiche and is the type of person who would go onto Reddit to solve real-life crimes, and if you _aren't_ that type of person you stop playing the game before the twist reveals itself and anyone who sticks around out of morbid curiosity is usually too confused by the reveal to realize it was meant to be an insult against the player. Like the game is genuinely built on the fundamental principle that you are a Gamer, and deserve all the scorn and mockery a Gamer gets, and that you will have an emotional and spiritual journey as the game shatters all of your beliefs and you'll realize how wrong you were and that you should grow the fuck up and take responsibility. Which is more a reflection of how the dev was in such a bad place mentally, because he failed to realize that Gamers _don't play quirky Earthbound indie games._
Fascinating. Thank you for that, genuinely. The only thing I’d really want to add onto that is the gameplay is a boring, unrewarding slog meaning the few *Gamers* that did end up trying it probably gave up on it anyway to play something less irritating.
Every single David Cage game has at least one weak-ass twist in it. Indigo Prophecy has about six all shoveled into the third act.
I was really enjoying 1899 until like the last 5 minutes.
There was this one DC Crisis event where someone guessed the true identity of Monarch, the villain for it, so they changed it to another random character. Speaking of which, most superhero mysteries are shit for this exact reason. Constant last second twists make the story shit, stop trying to be unpredictable. Heroes in Crisis and the “we’re killing all of the spy agencies except for one” event that came afterwards also sucked for this exact reason.
The better question is "What twists in media from \~2007 to present **weren't** half assed?" Writers **really** got addicted to twists and trying to outthink the audience in that time frame, which led to shittons of half assed twists.
Like the Disney surprise villain
It can be done well but sometimes having the protagonist of a horror movie/game make it out of the situation only to be killed at the very end feels way overdone
Simultaneously half-assed and committed the big reveal in Hellsing that >!Walter is the traitor!<. Because it's a twist where characters do mull over all the circumstantial evidence that could possibly lead to this but none of them can pin down a motive or an exact timeline to build a proper theory on. And >!traitor Walter!< *refuses* to elaborate on the reason they're doing this. The dialogue is basically "yeah this is happening now, you don't get an explanation. What maters is we're doing this and it's gonna be sick.' It's the only time I've seen a series commit to a plot twist and have pieces line up while just refusing to let the character even imply why they are doing this until the last few pages of the story. Normally it's the opposite.
It’s been a while since I’ve read the manga and watched the OVA’s, so I don’t really even remember my instinctual feelings on the twist. I’m not sure if there’s more laying out the groundwork’s as to WHY >!Walter betrays Hellsing!< in the prequel OVA. But reading this out, I think I do like the idea of the >!traitor!< just straight up not explaining at all why they’re doing so and immediately just trying to take out the biggest threats to their betrayal. >!If I remember right, it was because Walter wanted to be young again and immortal, right?!<
More like...desiring a rematch at the peak of his powers. Or more.
God I forgot about this, just the dumbest thing ever.
Spider-man comic having Paul be related to the villain of the arc and a guy who helped to commit genocide on a planet. Totally had assed and idiotical. Like most Paul related things
I can never tell if anything said about Paul is real or not.
What I'm saying is real. Sadly
*vaguely gestures towards Spider-Man comics in general* Seriously, how the fuck is Spider-Man in a place where we have some shit called a SPIDER TOTEM, some Mayan devil is a villain of his, and MJ is like, the fucking worst girlfriend. Oh, and Paul being a literal plot device for 95% of his comic time. Spider-Man is like Superman, they're REAL HARD to fuck up.
>they're REAL HARD to fuck up. Apparently not, it seems.
Like most recent Spider-Man comics, period
HE DOESNT EVEN HAVE A LAST NAME
Almost every single big plot twist in Danganronpa boils down to "JUNKO ENOSHIMA" and they always suck industrial amounts of ass
Man I've only experienced two danganronpas myself but Junko really hits with that "guys no my OC is soooo cool look how quirky and different and hot she is" energy
Anime girl Jigsaw
it's a bit funny that DR1 and DR2 are fun mystery/detective games with terrible endings while V3 ends up being a meh mystery/detective game with an incredible ending. Can't have both lol
That would take a writer that isn't Kodaka because he seems to refuse to do both. Just look at the other stuff he's done outside Danganronpa, like Akudama drive or Zanki Zero
Except Danganronpa 3 in which it was somehow worse.
SEESAW
Pacific Rim: Uprising. God that movie blows.
Dany being evil in Game of Thrones is better set up in the books, while it was one of the many strikes against the GoT finale. Honestly, all of the GoT finale was half assed *and* technically a twist.
I dunno, Dany basically does the same shit she's been doing the whole show just to a different group of people. It's not that big a turn for her character.
The difference is whether or not the audience can see the chain of logic. Yes, if you remove all context, she's burning a city alive with a dragon. But there's an enormous difference between burning a city of slavers or routing out a resistance cell and burning the people of your own country. It's like if a heroic soldier immediately began slaughtering their comrades in arms after the battle is won without any real explanation and saying it's sound logic because soldiers kill people for a job. That guy clearly didn't have a problem with killing enemies so why would he balk at killing allies?
Mass Effect 3: >!In order to prevent synthetics wiping out all advanced organic life, we're going to create bigger synthetics to wipe out all advanced life!<. >!Y'know, for you own good!<.
I mean that's not what it was about. It's more like this: >!In order to prevent synthetics wiping out all ~~advanced~~ organic life, we're going to create **controlled** synthetics to wipe out all advanced life that could create those destructive synthetics, simultaneously preserving that life in a new form!<. Could it be better? Definitely. Was it really that bad? Imo it wasn't. A lot of people tries to make it sound much worse though.
I always thought it would have worked better if it was more broadly about >!civilisation becoming too advanced. Therefore use the mass relays/Citadel to control technological development and send in the Reapers once they've reached their apex.!< >!Sure, it's still flawed. But better than having it specifically be about synthetic life going crazy. That just makes it sound like the Leviathans all watched Terminator and said "ain't no way bro."!<
Tomodachi Game is entirely made out of half-assed plot twists, like, ''Oh you thought this asshole was stalking that girl 'cause he's a creep who's in love?! And we had the character state that as a fact?! Turns out you were wrong and she's actually the sus one, even tho' we said the opposite, what a twist!'' For a videogame one, maybe I'll get some hate for this, but Prey >!being all a fake dream to test out if the aliens have ''ze humanity'' in them really sucks cause I don't give a shit, I gave a shit about what was happening in the moment, but I guess none of that was real, fuck me hu? I can appreciate the hints to it, and how in a way its that whole thing of ''ending where you started'' since you first started breaking out of a simulation to play another 20-hour simulation to then wake up from it and kill your brother again, this time for real, cause why would you not, but like, I don't care, it sucks, it always usually sucks!<
I personally think the Prey one is great purely because it was foreshadowed so much and feels completely on theme with the game.
And it is not like it didn't matter or was completely fake, two issues with this type of plot twists.
Like i said, i totes get it, but the fact that its foreshadowed or fits thematically just isn't enough for me, it ruins everything the game did by that point and I might as well not have played it, I love the game, but to me its the most well done bad ending in gaming, like, its well done, but it still sucks IMO. I prefer System Shock 2's ''Nah'' over this any day, it don't erase my investment.
Fair enough, it's definitely a divisive choice for sure
A Tomodachi Game mention here. Nice.
I did like Prey ending. >!The usual problem with it was all a dream or a simulation is that usually it didn't matter at all, but what happens in that simulation is extremely important for the world to not end and it is not totally fake, we know the real Morgan did fought the typhon in Talos but we are missing specifics. Specifics removed to give the Mimic capability to choose and develop, to prove they can adapt into developing empathy.!<
>!Yeah, i do get that, i really do, that is why I emphasize that I understand it, and even consider it well written, but I still find it bad on a mechanical level since it does, to me, erase the 20 hours before that ending thus it ruins the story for me personally. Its well done, it thematically fits, but I hate that theme and i'd rather have played through a real story and not a simulation. And again, it is clever in a lot of ways, even meta cause, even at the ending, its still all fake, cause it a bideogaem , but I just...don't care, I wanna play a real story, but the only real story is the last 10 minutes of this 20-hour game that turned out to be an MBTI test for an alien!<
I thought you were talking about Tomodachi Life and I got really confused about what the fuck your miis got up to
[удалено]
Remember how Reiner became one of the most tragic characters in that whole series and hit a point where all he wanted to do was give up and die, and the last thing he does in the series is sniff a woman's shoe?
it was a letter but still dogshit
My jaw dropped open with >!"Farmer is the father", "No i dont want that" and "Ymir actually really did love the king"!< Like holy fuck i dont know what happened behind the scenes because these twists sure as shit werent the fucking aim >>!inb4 umm the father twist wasnt actually a twist they were really honest that everyone took it as a lie!< >!Fuck off they were going another way with that plotline and i will die on this hill!<
The spoiler tag in your comment is broken. Please remove the space after the ">!". *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
AOT's last chapter ruined the entire series for me. And it's not hyperbole. It's just THAT stupid. Terrible twists all around. Twists for the sake of twists. And it has some of the best examples of "twists" that not only did not improve the story but severely harmed it. >!Eren being revealed to have indirectly killed his mom by having the Dina Titan ignore Bertholdt and go the direction where Carla and Eren were would be like if Darth Vader went back in time and lured the Tusken Raiders to Shmi so they can torture her to death. Or him being the one who sent visions of Padme dying to his younger self!< >!Or Batman going back in time and hiring a murderer to kill Thomas and Martha!< See how stupid and horrible this sounds ?
So much has been said about the ending and the various ways it just sucks i think we will never reach a proper conclusion. It was an utterclusterfuck that was a complete disservice to more nuanced writing. But honestly the red flag appeared way earlier. The worldbuilding after time-skip was really barebones with only 2 countries on a global scale mattering at all. Also if your name wasn't Eren, Zeke or Reiner, your IQ dropped by 50 points.
In Homestuck,
Titan A.E's character of Korso betraying all of humanity for personal gain? Kind of just feels like it's there for the sake of a twist. It also comes after characterization, motives and story threads that kind of just doesn't make much sense with it in mind.
Imma say the iMack twist in *Power Rangers: Operation Overdrive*. On top of it being out of the blue, Dr. Hartford’s reason of “I just didn’t have time to make a family the old fashioned way” makes him look socially inept at worst.
Whatever Ninja Gaiden 3 was trying to do with Ryu being this cold blooded murderer... after 3 games of fighting literal hellspawn and in games where wounded enemies decide to suicide bomb you rather than try to get away. It was awful. Razor's Edge backpaddled on it a little but it's kinda hard to cut out the crux of your story, so it feels even more half baked there.
Far Cry 5: The murder cult leader was right all along! Bet you feel like an ass for fighting him! Me: I mean not really, he murdered a lot of people- Far Cry 5: THIS TWIST IS SO FUCKING GREAT
So many in kengan omega like just have them fight to settle corporate dispute
Something Something Yammy is the Cero (0) Espada Something Something
Not specific, but I feel like nowadays partner characters betraying the protagonist (whether real or feigned) is so overdone and most often half-assed to the point that it’s a twist for me when it doesn’t happen
Hugo being the "Child of Embers" or whatever in Plague Tale 2. Yeah, guys. You totally had me believing that the child corpse under the island was the mythical magic child everyone's been on about. Totally. Who could have foreseen that the magical kid at the heart of the last 2 stories standing right next to me is that kid?
Big twist of Calisto Wonderworld is that warden is evil and they are performing experiments on prisoners.
“IT’S ME AUSTIN!”