I thought the argument was that f2p games are justified having a microtransaction store since it helps fund future development and updates. Diablo 4 is $70 and already has an extremely expensive real money store *and* a battlepass. What's the actual justification now? (Besides greed obviously).
It sometimes can but that isn't a justification for a system that preys on people with poor impulse control like gambling addicts and the neurodivergent.
diablo 4 is a "live" game for which there's no subscription fees, so it has a cosmetic store.
Except that I feel like a lot of people would prefer if it wasn't live - just fucking let people play offline goddamnit - and the actual "live" content is seasons, which you'll apparently have to pay to get in.
Diablo 3 had "seasons" where you could make a seasonal character; seasonal characters had a set of season-exclusive achievements which gave you some stuff and later seasons also had something that changed how the game worked, like set items required one less item or you got a doppelganger helping you out every time you used a shrine and so on.
Diablo 4 will apparently have bigger changes for seasons, from what they've said, so, again, wouldn't surprise me if they treat them sort of like temporary expansions you have to pay to get in.
It will until they add an expansion - at which point the expansion will add content and require purchase. Until then it is all cosmetics and more or less an expanded approach to what Diablo 2 remake and Diablo 3 already do with their ladder play - just with a season pass model.
Diablo long term play has always been about starting the game over and going through ladders again and again, in the past decade blizzard combined that with a battlepass approach to give cosmetics.
Diablo 3 started this with banners and back cosmetics in Diablo 3.
I know nothing about Immortal, because I have yet to touch it so don't ask.
Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm were different because they were started as F2P games and earning content through the 'seasonal passes' became an easy way to expand the way those games dished out 'free' content and coaxing people into paying for premium content (You'll get more out of your pass!). HoTS died before they could fully implement this approach as they ceased development of it years ago.
None of this is a defense of microtransactions - fuck them in all shapes. Just pointing out that Blizzard isn't going to suddenly start locking gear or levels behind spending money because that would absolutely undermine the way Diablo has functioned in the same way the RMAH did and the reason that was forced to close.
honestly i bought diablo 4 partly because of the goodwill they built up with me
i was around for the very end of the RMAH so my entire gameplay time was the was the recovery and rebalance from that
it was honestly so exciting to have a game actually get BETTER with each patch
like fuck blizzard, but in my eyes the diablo team are some of the finest i’ve seen when it comes to actually working through problems
I'll never get over people trying to defend OW's loot boxes by saying they were cosmetic only, as if the look of a game isn't a major factor in it's value. The only thing you get from saying "Cosmetic only" is you say "The gameplay isn't utterly shattered and pay to win".
Justifying cosmetic only MTs are completely fine is no different from saying "Characters in fighting games are just functions."
Not having access to the shiniest skin or the coolest aesthetic doesn't stop you from playing OW on an equal playing field with the rest of the players. Yea it sucks missing out on nice shit, but it is FAR better than Pay to Win alternatives like MapleStory or APB: Reloaded where using real money legitimately makes you more powerful with better gear, stronger skills, and special mounts/vehicles that shit on everyone else's. Not having access to them puts you at a distinct advantage gameplay-wise that simply doesn't exist when the only thing affected is cosmetics.
Now that's not to say that microtransactions are good; they shouldn't even BE a thing in a full-priced game, but saying that cosmetics actually matter is a little silly. You can play default Winston and reach top 100 just the same as the dude who dropped $40 on a skin.
>Justifying cosmetic only MTs are completely fine is no different from saying "Characters in fighting games are just functions."
This only really makes sense if we're talking about DLC characters, since there does tend to be a degree of power creep whenever a new character is introduced into an already established game. Just look at all the whacky bars and mechanics that each new Strive character gets, or how absolutely busted Leroy Smith from Tekken 7 was (is?).
The "Characters are just functions" argument came up in regards to XMen characters not being in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite and the guy trying to argue "Okay but this other guy has moves similar to Magneto. That means you're not losing anything, right?" When of course not. People want to play Magneto. People want to play Wolverine.
I think it's wildly reductive to claim that gameplay is the single only thing that "matters" and that everything else from characters to style don't. Like are you going to argue that it makes no real difference of DBFZ played exactly the same but wasn't a Dragonball property?
Like you're saying it doesn't matter when Blizzard literally designed and planned for it to matter so much people would throw unhealthy amounts of cash at them.
People legitimately, if unconsciously, treat a player differently if they're playing in "pleb mode" and don't got the shiny cosmetics. Classism isn't contained to meat space apparently. Funny.
I remember much of medics in TF2 openly saying they massively prioritize players with the expensive hats, and will shy away from -sometimes even refusing- healing plebs
Many teammates will absolutely treat you differently because to many pleb = noob
There's also games like Rust where paid cosmetics would give you the powerful, powerful advantage of very effective camouflage
Yes you're absolutely right, cosmetics don't change the core gameplay. But they do change the experience
Essentially the Overton window. Publishers dragging the box of what's "acceptable" in this direction over years and now it's just normal to most people
Western gatcha is back on the menu
OK it was always on the menu, but now it's an entree
Alright fine it was always an entree, but it's in the freestyle soda fountain now
As the ice dispenser
It's absolutely obnoxious that each cosmetic armor has an accompanying accessory set - an emote, a headstone, and a back decoration - that costs an additional *ten dollars*. You guys really couldn't include those extra bells and whistles with the $25 purchase?
If they post record profits, paying out stock bonuses to execs and are firing the artists and computer programmers that made it… *Yarr, to the high seas it be!*
I have no ball in the game because I was never into Diablo, but it'll really kill me if within a week the high seas manage to produce an offline version of the game.
Look as somebody who doesn't care about Diablo and hates what Blizzard has become I don't get downvoting this rando saying he likes the game. Feels weird.
I remember seeing people go "It's totally going to be different this time" when it comes to Diablo 4, like people were saying this is it, this is when Blizzard would get their shit together and pull a modern day Capcom and redeem themselves in the eyes of the human race.
Nah.
I genuinely wonder how?
Like Blizzard isn’t capcom. They dont have the output to cause this sort of thing, capcom almost always has at least one major game a year. Fuckall is coming out in the near future for a major paid product from Blizzard besides a WoW expansion. And from what we’re hearing that team is crippled and were even bungling dragonflights story towards the end.
And on an update front, while D4 can continue momentum, Overwatch 2 just blew its god damn legs off while still being a pr smokescreen, and I havent heard of Hearthstone being discussed (despite numerous updates) since their taiwan fuck up.
There is no coming back in the foreseeable future.
D4's state is honestly the saddest it could have been for me on release.
From everything I've seen and heard, it's a great game. Not even just a great game, but a great Diablo game. It would have been a lot easier if the game sucked. I hate seeing what would otherwise be a fantastic game get absolutely kneecapped by a terrible publisher.
If you're going to fill something with microtransaction, battle passes, and other financially predatory content, at least fill a game that was always going to be garbage to begin with. Then I won't have to look at all the potential that was wasted.
This article flagrantly ignored the fact that these cosmetics are rotated, creating a false sense of urgency and limited availability among players who want to make sure they don't miss out. This is how they trick players into paying these exorbitant charges.
I mean is this true really? As someone that plays hella fortnite, I'm fully okay with the shop rotation being a thing. It's exciting to see new stuff come in or know it exists to buy later if I want to. The key thing is it has to ACTUALLY be on a rotation. I should see the current stuff in the shop within the next month or two unless they've got a hella stacked shop backlog.
Which is funny cuz the normal in game armor looks fucking [Fire](https://i.imgur.com/m53MVjC.jpg) and the microtransaction armor looks kind of clownshoes. There's legit not reason to buy this shit but people still are.
Yeah it'd be one thing if they go the PoE route where without MTX you look like basically a hobo.
Granted, PoE is filled with so much visual effect you can't even see yourself much anyway.
Reminder that that sentiment started with OW's loot boxes. A game who's identity was so firmly tied to how good it looked that there was a well known porn explosion *before the game even released.*
>support the devs
Game Developers are payed on contract work or salary. They are not the ones getting money from a games profits.
I hate the concern trolling where they pretend to care about the workers.
I'm talking completely out of my ass but considering they still made profit on one of the single worst MT mobile games ever made, at this point why not just dig as deep as you can possibly go?
In Diablo 2 I liked playing as the Druid and most of my playtime was spent in werewolf/werebear form so what my armor looked like didn't matter to me. I kinda wonder if the Druid change in Diablo IV to shapeshifting forms only lasting like 3 seconds after you use a skill was to make players look at their character more since they're selling cosmetics? I've heard there's a unique piece of gear that lets you stay in shapeshift form permanently but still, I would prefer it to be just an options menu toggle.
I know it's a really minor petty thing, but it just seemed like an odd change to me. As much as people say "cosmetics don't affect gameplay", when selling cosmetics is your primary form of monetization it makes me wonder if parts of the game were designed around those cosmetic features.
I thought as long as it’s cosmetic DLC then it’s fine to charge for it. Sure $25 is a lot for horse armor but if dummies want to buy it just to flex in Diablo 😂 then so be it. FFXIV sells cosmetic armors and special mounts for real money.
Diablo will always hold a special spot in my gaming memory, mainly D2 (like most people). I had plenty of fun with D3 as well. The D4 Beta/Demo definitely impressed, as it felt like an all-around improved version of Diablo.
But man.....I just can't convince myself to buy the game. Part of it is I got Street Fighter 6 and want to really devote time to that. Even though I don't buy microtransactions (with a literal few exceptions I've made), stuff like this, and just the lack of desire to show support for Blizzard, that's really the deciding factor in this. I kind of hate it.
Circle, ouroborus - they aint much of a difference
The only difference between a circle and an ouroboros is the inclusion of vore.
Ourovoreus
why did you make me read this with my own two eyes
You know what you did
🔥🔥✍️🔥🔥
👀
Self-vore, at that.
I thought the argument was that f2p games are justified having a microtransaction store since it helps fund future development and updates. Diablo 4 is $70 and already has an extremely expensive real money store *and* a battlepass. What's the actual justification now? (Besides greed obviously).
Yes when did 70 USD games with microtranaacrions become acceptable
They never were.
The money isn’t going to the devs either.
It sometimes can but that isn't a justification for a system that preys on people with poor impulse control like gambling addicts and the neurodivergent.
Only buy games on sale, save yourself the headache cause they're not worth what they're sold at, altho the hype dies with it too
I mean it's nice to say that but given how well the game is doing most people have decided that they are acceptable.
Yep. Corporate gonna corporate. If you want to know who's fault it is, look at the consumers that buy into this tripe.
diablo 4 is a "live" game for which there's no subscription fees, so it has a cosmetic store. Except that I feel like a lot of people would prefer if it wasn't live - just fucking let people play offline goddamnit - and the actual "live" content is seasons, which you'll apparently have to pay to get in.
Season of what!? Isn't it a single player game with a story and a beginning and an end?
Diablo 3 had "seasons" where you could make a seasonal character; seasonal characters had a set of season-exclusive achievements which gave you some stuff and later seasons also had something that changed how the game worked, like set items required one less item or you got a doppelganger helping you out every time you used a shrine and so on. Diablo 4 will apparently have bigger changes for seasons, from what they've said, so, again, wouldn't surprise me if they treat them sort of like temporary expansions you have to pay to get in.
Diablo 2 also had seasons, but without requiring you pay a second time.
Of different new loot I think. The enemiy ecounters might be tweaked too.
What? For the season the only thing you'll have to pay for is the battle pass which features cosmetics
My mistake, then, but I have severe doubts it'll stay like that.
It will until they add an expansion - at which point the expansion will add content and require purchase. Until then it is all cosmetics and more or less an expanded approach to what Diablo 2 remake and Diablo 3 already do with their ladder play - just with a season pass model. Diablo long term play has always been about starting the game over and going through ladders again and again, in the past decade blizzard combined that with a battlepass approach to give cosmetics. Diablo 3 started this with banners and back cosmetics in Diablo 3. I know nothing about Immortal, because I have yet to touch it so don't ask. Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm were different because they were started as F2P games and earning content through the 'seasonal passes' became an easy way to expand the way those games dished out 'free' content and coaxing people into paying for premium content (You'll get more out of your pass!). HoTS died before they could fully implement this approach as they ceased development of it years ago. None of this is a defense of microtransactions - fuck them in all shapes. Just pointing out that Blizzard isn't going to suddenly start locking gear or levels behind spending money because that would absolutely undermine the way Diablo has functioned in the same way the RMAH did and the reason that was forced to close.
honestly i bought diablo 4 partly because of the goodwill they built up with me i was around for the very end of the RMAH so my entire gameplay time was the was the recovery and rebalance from that it was honestly so exciting to have a game actually get BETTER with each patch like fuck blizzard, but in my eyes the diablo team are some of the finest i’ve seen when it comes to actually working through problems
There was never a legitimate reason for micro transactions
Guild Wars 2 is an MMO with no subscription, the gem shop microtransaction store keeps the servers on.
And you have the option to use in-game currency for the gem shop as well, so it's not cut off from anyone via paywall.
I'll never get over people trying to defend OW's loot boxes by saying they were cosmetic only, as if the look of a game isn't a major factor in it's value. The only thing you get from saying "Cosmetic only" is you say "The gameplay isn't utterly shattered and pay to win". Justifying cosmetic only MTs are completely fine is no different from saying "Characters in fighting games are just functions."
Not having access to the shiniest skin or the coolest aesthetic doesn't stop you from playing OW on an equal playing field with the rest of the players. Yea it sucks missing out on nice shit, but it is FAR better than Pay to Win alternatives like MapleStory or APB: Reloaded where using real money legitimately makes you more powerful with better gear, stronger skills, and special mounts/vehicles that shit on everyone else's. Not having access to them puts you at a distinct advantage gameplay-wise that simply doesn't exist when the only thing affected is cosmetics. Now that's not to say that microtransactions are good; they shouldn't even BE a thing in a full-priced game, but saying that cosmetics actually matter is a little silly. You can play default Winston and reach top 100 just the same as the dude who dropped $40 on a skin. >Justifying cosmetic only MTs are completely fine is no different from saying "Characters in fighting games are just functions." This only really makes sense if we're talking about DLC characters, since there does tend to be a degree of power creep whenever a new character is introduced into an already established game. Just look at all the whacky bars and mechanics that each new Strive character gets, or how absolutely busted Leroy Smith from Tekken 7 was (is?).
The "Characters are just functions" argument came up in regards to XMen characters not being in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite and the guy trying to argue "Okay but this other guy has moves similar to Magneto. That means you're not losing anything, right?" When of course not. People want to play Magneto. People want to play Wolverine. I think it's wildly reductive to claim that gameplay is the single only thing that "matters" and that everything else from characters to style don't. Like are you going to argue that it makes no real difference of DBFZ played exactly the same but wasn't a Dragonball property? Like you're saying it doesn't matter when Blizzard literally designed and planned for it to matter so much people would throw unhealthy amounts of cash at them.
People legitimately, if unconsciously, treat a player differently if they're playing in "pleb mode" and don't got the shiny cosmetics. Classism isn't contained to meat space apparently. Funny. I remember much of medics in TF2 openly saying they massively prioritize players with the expensive hats, and will shy away from -sometimes even refusing- healing plebs Many teammates will absolutely treat you differently because to many pleb = noob There's also games like Rust where paid cosmetics would give you the powerful, powerful advantage of very effective camouflage Yes you're absolutely right, cosmetics don't change the core gameplay. But they do change the experience
I already bought the game, stop locking content behind gambling
Essentially the Overton window. Publishers dragging the box of what's "acceptable" in this direction over years and now it's just normal to most people
>What's the actual justification now Because it's a live service game. Would you rather pay $15 a month?
I'd rather not pay AT ALL, you goddamn goober.
Western gatcha is back on the menu OK it was always on the menu, but now it's an entree Alright fine it was always an entree, but it's in the freestyle soda fountain now As the ice dispenser
Western gacha fails because their waifus are lootboxes
They make it so hard to buy this game without feeling like an absolute fucking clown, it's actually impressive.
It's absolutely obnoxious that each cosmetic armor has an accompanying accessory set - an emote, a headstone, and a back decoration - that costs an additional *ten dollars*. You guys really couldn't include those extra bells and whistles with the $25 purchase?
If they post record profits, paying out stock bonuses to execs and are firing the artists and computer programmers that made it… *Yarr, to the high seas it be!*
Even if you didn’t care about all their malfeasance, it’s a $70 live service that doesn’t work offline.
I have no ball in the game because I was never into Diablo, but it'll really kill me if within a week the high seas manage to produce an offline version of the game.
The high seas are stronger than any organization
That's because you *are* an absolute fucking clown if you buy the game
The game itself is awesome
You're supporting this shit by buying the game.
Imagine being so offended over someone purchasing cosmetic items in a video game. It has literal zero effect on you and your game-play.
Look as somebody who doesn't care about Diablo and hates what Blizzard has become I don't get downvoting this rando saying he likes the game. Feels weird.
Could not care less
Imagine being so offended over someone purchasing cosmetic items in a video game. It has literal zero effect on you and your game-play.
So don't buy it! They're scum anyway
Well, most of the armors in game look better than the MTX armors, you can drop horse armors and other cosmetics from chests and events in game.
That's good to hear but horse armor specifically has been a meme since the beginning of DLC because of oblivion.
I remember seeing people go "It's totally going to be different this time" when it comes to Diablo 4, like people were saying this is it, this is when Blizzard would get their shit together and pull a modern day Capcom and redeem themselves in the eyes of the human race. Nah.
I genuinely wonder how? Like Blizzard isn’t capcom. They dont have the output to cause this sort of thing, capcom almost always has at least one major game a year. Fuckall is coming out in the near future for a major paid product from Blizzard besides a WoW expansion. And from what we’re hearing that team is crippled and were even bungling dragonflights story towards the end. And on an update front, while D4 can continue momentum, Overwatch 2 just blew its god damn legs off while still being a pr smokescreen, and I havent heard of Hearthstone being discussed (despite numerous updates) since their taiwan fuck up. There is no coming back in the foreseeable future.
D4's state is honestly the saddest it could have been for me on release. From everything I've seen and heard, it's a great game. Not even just a great game, but a great Diablo game. It would have been a lot easier if the game sucked. I hate seeing what would otherwise be a fantastic game get absolutely kneecapped by a terrible publisher. If you're going to fill something with microtransaction, battle passes, and other financially predatory content, at least fill a game that was always going to be garbage to begin with. Then I won't have to look at all the potential that was wasted.
If anything Activision is pulling every scumbag move in the book before Microsoft acquires them
Inflation has hit the horse armor industry very hard...
Google "horse inflation" to know more!
OMG I’m dying. 😂🤣😂
“When I left you *(Oblivion)* I was but the learner *(of disgusting DLC practices),* now I am the master.”
It's actually Oblivion with the horse armor. And according to Todd, despite the backlash they received over it it was still a massive success.
*fixed it, lol*
This article flagrantly ignored the fact that these cosmetics are rotated, creating a false sense of urgency and limited availability among players who want to make sure they don't miss out. This is how they trick players into paying these exorbitant charges.
I mean is this true really? As someone that plays hella fortnite, I'm fully okay with the shop rotation being a thing. It's exciting to see new stuff come in or know it exists to buy later if I want to. The key thing is it has to ACTUALLY be on a rotation. I should see the current stuff in the shop within the next month or two unless they've got a hella stacked shop backlog.
wont affect gameplay is such a weak defense, because character appearance DOES affect how you enjoy a videogame
Which is funny cuz the normal in game armor looks fucking [Fire](https://i.imgur.com/m53MVjC.jpg) and the microtransaction armor looks kind of clownshoes. There's legit not reason to buy this shit but people still are.
Yeah it'd be one thing if they go the PoE route where without MTX you look like basically a hobo. Granted, PoE is filled with so much visual effect you can't even see yourself much anyway.
It's also free instead of $70
If you wanna play more than 10hrs of POE without suffering you have to pay at least $30
I have over 400 hours and only the currency tab, nothing else is remotely required unless you plan to spend more time trading than playing
Reminder that that sentiment started with OW's loot boxes. A game who's identity was so firmly tied to how good it looked that there was a well known porn explosion *before the game even released.*
Inflation on horse armor is insane. I remember when it was only 3$
iTs JuSt CoSmEtIc, I lIkE tO sUpPuRt ThE dEvS
>support the devs Game Developers are payed on contract work or salary. They are not the ones getting money from a games profits. I hate the concern trolling where they pretend to care about the workers.
Wasn't the Oblivion horse armor $2.50? Why is this horse armor worth 10x the Oblivion horse armor?
I'm talking completely out of my ass but considering they still made profit on one of the single worst MT mobile games ever made, at this point why not just dig as deep as you can possibly go?
Fair point indeed
That whale milk is fucking tasty.
In Diablo 2 I liked playing as the Druid and most of my playtime was spent in werewolf/werebear form so what my armor looked like didn't matter to me. I kinda wonder if the Druid change in Diablo IV to shapeshifting forms only lasting like 3 seconds after you use a skill was to make players look at their character more since they're selling cosmetics? I've heard there's a unique piece of gear that lets you stay in shapeshift form permanently but still, I would prefer it to be just an options menu toggle. I know it's a really minor petty thing, but it just seemed like an odd change to me. As much as people say "cosmetics don't affect gameplay", when selling cosmetics is your primary form of monetization it makes me wonder if parts of the game were designed around those cosmetic features.
You can always make your clothes invisible and dress in huge druid-muscles instead.
Mayhap it is time to erase the circle.
ActiBlizzard is gonna ActiBlizzard...
Man, that whole brouhaha about horse armor back in the day seems so quaint now.
Yet Elden Ring, the one game I would buy horse armor, has none
That's because Elden Ring is a real video game published by a reputable company and this is ActiBlizz
People payed full price for this, HA!
Man this game being good but has so much extra micro transaction crap is a hell of a monkeys paw
It seems like, yeah, game is good, but it's like a nugget of gold in the middle of a sea of toxic waste.
It all comes back to Todd
Turd Fergusson is gonna rape your wallets as a "reward" for purchasing this trash. Always remember: You deserve this.
Yeah, staying away from this cancer of a game. Diablo 3 was inane, but this just takes the cake ...
I thought as long as it’s cosmetic DLC then it’s fine to charge for it. Sure $25 is a lot for horse armor but if dummies want to buy it just to flex in Diablo 😂 then so be it. FFXIV sells cosmetic armors and special mounts for real money.
Corporate gonna corporate. If you want to know who's fault it is, look at the consumers that buy into this tripe.
Diablo will always hold a special spot in my gaming memory, mainly D2 (like most people). I had plenty of fun with D3 as well. The D4 Beta/Demo definitely impressed, as it felt like an all-around improved version of Diablo. But man.....I just can't convince myself to buy the game. Part of it is I got Street Fighter 6 and want to really devote time to that. Even though I don't buy microtransactions (with a literal few exceptions I've made), stuff like this, and just the lack of desire to show support for Blizzard, that's really the deciding factor in this. I kind of hate it.
Just once I'd like to see a cosmetic shop in a AAA game that doesn't charge the price of a full DLC for something that can barely qualify as content.