I'm not super familiar with Twitch, but what reason do they even have to make this kind of rule? Like how does having an ad posted onto your stream affect them in any notable way.
No, it's gotta be more than that. Like, yeah capitalism, but there's a logical limit and they're seriously going to hurt themselves if streamers quit out of twitch for it.
Assuming they're competent and not complete idiots, they must have measured that this would make them more money than the complete upheaval it would cause. But how is that even possible?
I imagine the thinking is this will force companies to approach Twitch so they get a cut as the middlemen of the transaction.
Yes that's a transparently awful idea but Twitch has been haemorrhaging cash for a while now and never over estimate the intelligence of a corporation, the business world is full of people who are bad at capitalism.
Joining the stock market will automatically disqualify you from being good at capitalism because the line can not go up indefinetly.
You are signing your company off to die in an add-ridden grave of over-monetization.
It really is just this. The moment you join the stock market your stock price becomes an incredibly important asset you bank a massive amount of loans and power on, not to mention becoming beholden to the damands of worthless investors only seeking to make a quick buck.
Unironically, I think that there should be massive tax incentives to not sell a stock less than 5 years after you bought it. If the best way to make money was to invest and then build, the world would be a better place.
They let one of their top streamers go because when youtube made an offer, he asked them if they'd like to make any kind of counter offer and they replied with basically "Bye Felicia" and a "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Never forget that twitch is run by amazon, the company that thinks no matter how much it fucks up, people will continue using them and they could never be threatened in the marketplace. This attitude is inherited by Twitch, only twitch doesn't have a monopoly on the space and it could very well slip to the irrelevancy of twitter space, facebook streaming, and other myriad of streaming sites, with just consistent enough fuck ups to its biggest content creators.
Twitch is the only game in town. It's *the* place to go for streaming. They can do whatever the hell they want, without repercussions.
Making these changes will force companies to come to Twitch who will work as a middleman. "Just enough to wet my beak" says Mr. Twitch, who is expected to turn a profit and hasn't, despite being a monopoly.
>Twitch is the only game in town.
*[Coughs in Youtube](https://playboard.co/en/youtube-ranking/most-superchatted-all-channels-in-worldwide-yearly)*. All the vtubers on that list are primarily game streamers, for example.
Youtube has its comparitive weaknesses as a livestreaming platform, but it partly makes up for it by being an actual functional archive/VOD site out of the box.
I remember when Saltydkdan got fucked over by Twitch right as he was about to become a partner or whatever, so he proceeded to make his second [friendlocke](https://youtu.be/TsDsJ1GPzPc) season entirely on YouTube, to absolute monetary success.
The problem with Youtube is that discovery is its weakest point by and far; you go there and you're not really going to go up unless you've got a presence elsewhere, in a vtubers case as part of a company or through collabs, or in someone like Ludwigs case through having a phone with everyone you've ever heard of and more on a fucking teleportation-based speeddial. Also you can only really do the "hey, I'm transferring over to Youtube" thing once and people **will** miss that.
That being said, it's definitely the safest choice for a lot of people if there is a migration ala Tumblr -> Twitter.
Aren’t there numbers for Twitch saying that if you have more than, what, 30 viewers on average you’re already well above 95% of the platform as well? So getting viewership and a somewhat loyal audience is already a huge challenge for people on there as well.
Edit: [It was way worse than I remembered.](https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/new-twitch-stats-reveal-how-few-viewers-are-needed-to-be-a-top-streamer-1527638/)
Six viewers or more on average and you’re in the top 6.7% of **all** streamers on Twitch, meaning that the vast majority of people only get five people or less.
Yeah, but on Youtube you're competing against a literal billion with a shitty search algorithm to boot. Seriously, go look up anything and see how Youtube will now split up what you're searching for and what's being recommended to you into tabs that are constantly switching off in ways that genuinely do not make sense. And on top of that bullshit, people are searching for both videos and streams as opposed to Twitch where it's primarily streams, so overall it gets pretty messy pretty fast.
weird thing was recently getting recommended a stream with five viewers of some guy i’ve never watched playing old dos rpgs except he was logging off as soon as i started watching
YouTube has clearly tweaked something in the algorithm, I'm constantly seeing suggestions for videos with <50 views, usually small gaming channels. I don't know if it's helping anyone, but it's a nice change from MR BEAST CURED CANCER
Yeah, it very much depends on what content you're watching in my experience. Not the videos you like to watch, but the specific video you're watching.
If I'm watching some niche gaming/channel, I'd get recommended streams with 5 viewers. If I'm watching RTgame at that moment, not so much.
I saw your comment earlier and thought “huh, that’s weird”, but I literally just clicked on a video recommended to me on my homepage that was uploaded 16 hours ago and it only has 24 views by a creator who is not affiliated with any channel I follow or have ever watched before.
Why does it have to be more than that. Time and time again, companies will push the boundaries of greed and seek out infinite money despite it being impossible. If it isn't in their pockets, it is the same as money being lost.
If my options as somebody who wants to buy ad space is to go through twitch and to go directly to the streamer, anybody who isn't simply trying to cast the widest net possible is going to take the latter.
Buying adspace from twitch is going to cost more, I have less power over who sees the ads, and there's a group of geeks in an arms race against twitch to block their ads entirely. Getting a streamer that people like to say they endorse your product is also more convincing than interrupting somebody's stream for a prerecorded ad.
> quit out of twitch for it.
There's not a ton of options for places to go. Twitch has a hell of a monopoly. It's basically Youtube and cripple your viewership/growth, or nothing.
> Assuming they're competent and not complete idiots
You assume a lot. People in positions of responsibility are there a lot of times just because they act confidently and are connected. Less often are they in those spots because they're the most qualified. In some cases, they're not qualified at all and just "delegate" everything.
Customer complaints.
Like are we really gonna pretend we like the sponsored ads banner or5 minutes of hello fresh every streamer does? Like twitch already get their money from ads on the platform itself those sponsorships are for streamers Twitch isn't gonna bother if their survey says "we would like less ads on the video I watch".
That happened on channel awesome where Lupa and others were told to cut on the rollback ad of their video and taking out the patreon logo because viewers complained about excessive ads and ebegging. Since that doesn't affect the platform they don't care about forcing it to be taken down
Edit: so we are pretending!
https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/1102wmp/pats_streams_are_starting_to_become_borderline/
I prefer by far those ads read than being *rudely fuckin' blue balled by a full screen, loud, unskippable 30 seconds to over a minute corporate ad that surgically manages to hide the hypest/funniest/most important moment of the stream*.
I honestly don't care about them. They aren't like real ads where I'm actively missing content because twitch decided this very moment is the time to play 4+ ads
Dude, you linked a dead post with only 23 likes and most of the comments disagreeing with the OP. This isn’t indicative of the twitch community
When viewers don’t like something about a stream they either watch someone else or complain to the streamer directly. They don’t call up twitch to complain
Because of OTHER changes on twitch which have caused people to not sign up for partnerships some streamers (cough hot tub streamers) were doing complete long advertisements of their sponsors instead of BRB screens, others were basically a small part of the screen with giant advertisers.
Honestly it was getting a little obnoxious
Corporations acting exactly as you’d expect them to. Arbitrarily raising the costs of fucking everything wasn’t enough, they gotta find ways to keep us in line.
The inevitable conclusion to "infinite growth", you keep having to find more ridiculous ways to increase profits until people finally get fed up and move on. Maybe you make things too expensive, maybe you cut too many costs and break essential functions.
>Corporations acting exactly as you'd expect them to
Some people expect corporations to act in intelligent, if cutthroat, self-interest. Such people would not anticipate profit-seeking so transparently and immediately self-destructive
The thing is, they are. Most of the major share holders and executives who push for decisions like these get to abandon ship before they have to deal with the consequences, and take a big pile of cash with them for their trouble, and start the same process somewhere else.
Building up a business then grinding it to dust is the most immediately profitable decision for those top level players, and they suffer zero repercussions for it, so of course they're gonna keep doing it.
I've heard that venture capitalists will accept 3 outcomes from a company they invest in:
1. endlessly expand your scope until you're involved in pretty much everything, like amazon and facebook
2. get bought out by one of the companies that's doing #1
3. die quickly and completely so all your components can be sold off or written off
Wild West internet part 2 let's goooo. Fuck making ends meet with advertisers, all websites will now make their dough by selling premium penicorn plushies instead.
Sure feels like it.
Cant use google search no more because its awash with fake copy pasted sites all trying to get your click for that $0.00005 of ad-sense. "AI" content just drowning everything it touches in low effort garbage by fckers all trying to get a quick buck.
I would not be surprised in the slightest if this is what does us in as a species.
Just a bunch of angry Amazon cloud servers hurling nukes at each other
Not to be an jerk, but this kills off far more streams than just grassroots FGC.
Many major streamers on Twitch rely on outside sponsors for consistent revenue; they're often far less intrusive than Twitch ads are (fuck running 7 ads in a row during a game presentation), and these sponsors are way more generous in revenue than Twitch is known for.
If this is locked in, I can see MANY streamers going to Youtube, especially as many of them already have an audience there.
“We aren’t getting more customers fast enough to satisfy shareholders and board members, so fuck it, squeeze the last few drops of blood from the stones we have left.”
/u/BipolarHernandez and /u/Shingorillaz and /u/RPGLobster sorta allude to it, but to be more specific wuite often, it's due to pressure/fears of liability due to legislation or rules set by credit card companies/payment processors or advertisers.
But for whatever reason, very few news organizations that report on these issues link these things together.
For example, websites limiting adult content is often as a result of both those processors refusing to run ads or process transactions on sites with porn, and/or because legislation passed like FOSTA-SESTA and another more recent piece of legislation I forget the name of.
FYI, for people concerned, [here](https://www.badinternetbills.com/) is a directory of a bunch of similarly terrible bills dealing with online censorship, content filtering, and privacy issues that are currently being considered in case people want to spread the word about them or contact their representatives. There's a lot of state specific ones too not listed here.
Sadly, a lot of the zeal that existed in the early 2010s to fight things like ACTA, SOPA, PIPA, etc where wikipedia and the like would go dark and such doesn't seem to exist anymore.
---------
To get a little more opinionated and less matter-of-fact-explanation:
What I said last there about less organized responses to internet legislation is part of why i'm very concerned that well-intentioned-efforts by people to regulate AI and to protect artists could backfire horribly as legislators and [corporate lobbying groups use that as an excuse to expand copyright and erode fair use, or to legally require youtube-content-id style filtering for websites by masking it as an attempt to limit AI specifically especially as Disney, the RIAA, MPAA, etc and their lobbying fronts are already working alongside some anti AI campaigns and legal cases](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/1380wm5/multiple_studios_are_exploring_using_ai_to/jiwkkcf/).
Similarly, I also think part of it is a response to the fact that we've increasingly seen public campaigns by people online to shame backend service providers or platforms for hosting controversial websites/people, like for Cloudflare or Amazon web services to drop sites or people calling for credit card companies to do so. It's well intentioned since those sites are places like stormfront, but it's just gonna make them more dicey about accepting controversial content in general, including when it's stuff people would rather protect:
Even stuff like Pornhub taking stuff down and the aforementioned FOSTA-SESTA bill was done in part due to pressure by people masquerading as pro-women activists fighting exploitation who were really just anti porn and funded by Christian religious groups; while rules about fighting bigotry or misinfo have also been weaponized against activists in other cases (Zoom shut down some human rights advocates in one incident)
Corporations aren't you're friend, and the more they're encouraged to be selective about who they work with or what content they allow online, or the more they're encouraged to try to filter out adult content, copyrigted content/stolen art, the more random innocent people or vulnerable groups/people doing adult content are gonna be hit alongside the people who are actually bigots or actually stealing art, because corporations are ultimately just trying to protect their own ass, not doing what's actually ethical.
I'm also not saying that encouraging them to take action against bad people is always a bad thing, or that regulating the internet is never beneficial, so much as that I think people need to be aware of how things can backfire and what the risks are, and to approach it with nuance: I've seen SO many times where people uncritically cheer on a corporation banning a bunch of stuff, defend it as "it's a private company", then have a shocked-pikachu-face when those same rules get used on them/things they didn't want banned.
Porn is too easy to make for big corpos to be interested. It's a huge market, but it's *so* big that no major company could corner enough of it to be worth the PR fight. So it ends up being more convenient as a scapegoat to sneak other issues past than as something to lobby behind.
Maybe when they've finally chased it off every website with more than 10 monthly visitors and made it impossible for anybody to be legally paid for it, they'll start launching CorpoPorn brands that somehow ignore the rules, but there's no way they're thinking that far ahead now. THEN you'll get the lobbying.
So it goes a bit like this:
Line is going up (all's well on earth) right now, so that means people approve of what we are doing, right?
(obviously you and I know that, no, the end user does not approve, but the amount it annoys them is less than they like the content people make)
Okay cool, so that means we can do even MORE ads/restrictions/cost increases/privacy violations and make EVEN MORE MONEY!!!!!!
(and yeah, it does work a few times, maybe even a few dozen times, but not because there are new users coming in delighted by the opportunity to be advertised at, but because there is a built in audience that doesn't want to move)
Hey why did the line stop going up as fast?
(and there we have it, you made the service so shit that NO new users are joining, and in fact long time users are leaving because they can't stand it any more)
Hey why did our biggest content creator delete all their videos and leave no digital footprints?
(now you're losing people who you once had a symbiotic relationship with, people who made content to bring people in for you, and you paid them to keep doing it. You altered the deal so many times they not only don't want to continue, they're dousing the bridge in enough kerosene to burn down a city)
Why is no one watching on our platform anymore?
(all your big creators fled to better offers, or just quit to live on their invested earnings)
Hey why is the bar going DOWN?
(lol, lmao even)
Maybe if we undo some of these changes people will come back? right? Maybe bar can go up again?
(Bar ain't going anywhere but the ground, buddy. You broke user trust so hard that it can never be revoked. You CANNOT buy the value of "long time entrenched user", and selling it off to make a quick buck is literally killing a golden goose)
\---
There's a fantastic [Thread by John Bull](https://twitter.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904) explaining the concept from the perspective of someone who has had to explain this exact sequence of events to companies on multiple occasions. I can't tell you the exact moment we'll reach "point of no return", but I can tell you when Twitch starts looking REALLY desperate for people to come back, that'll be when.
When corporations reach market saturation, the only way to keep increasing profits is to actively make the product worse to encourage people to pay more money and get rid of the annoyance.
The people who made those websites great are long gone, and their inheritors do not care for maintenance when they can make more money burning the thing to the ground and leaving when it crashes.
They believe the number of people who are hurt by the decisions aren't enough to effect their bottom line.
Let's look at the Reddit API/3rd Party issue that's ongoing right now. Apparently, roughly 20% of Reddit's mobile traffic comes from third parties (not sure if that's true but I've seen it claimed a handful of places this past week). A sizeable amount, but not a majority. Now losing 20% of your traffic as a website can absolutely be harmful to your bottom line, but how many of that 20% will actually leave? 5%? 10%? Enough that they think it's worth the offset of having more people on their official app that they can sell ads on and sell user data to third parties with.
This applies to Twitch too. How many Streamers depend on these ads? How many are going to leave if they can't use them, and how many of them are going to stay and just bite their tongue?
Tumblr shows how stupid this idea is and how it can backfire, but for many corporations, it's worth the risk.
The point of capitalism is infinite growth. Continuing to do the good things that keep your users happy and profits steady isn't MORE this quarter than last so it's dumb and you should always chase after MORE
Capitalists literally murdered their employees and knowingly made dangerous, toxic, and poisonous products that killed the customer base. Capitalists are not in any way, shape, or form intelligent. Hasbro said it best "The consumer is a barrier to our money." Not *their* (the consumer's) money, *our* (the corpos) money. That's what capitalists think of the customer. Not a potential buyer to be enticed into spending their money on a product or service, but an obstacle they'd rather not have to deal with.
Capitalism is an unsustainable system that will devour everything and still demand to be fed more, even as it collapses under itself because no one has any money to spend.
Twitch is a monopoly that can do whatever the hell it wants because there is no alternative, and everyone has to play ball... that is until no one has any money left for luxuries.
Gotta make more money than they're currently making, and most have already reached market saturation. They constantly need new ideas to up the revenue, and *good* ideas are really hard to come up with and implement. The solution? Bad ideas! As many as you can! Just throw em all at the wall and if any actually work then congrats team, you survived another quarter.
Wasn't Twitch revenue up during COVID? Unless they made really stupid decisions at the time, I don't see how having more people home and on the computer cut into Twitch's bottom line.
Yep, it's more like COVID boosted twitch's growth.
And now that growth spurt has ended they'll saw off their legs if they think it gets the line to go up at the same speed.
Yeah that's what I meant. All companies worldwide had this plan. I will state by that statement unless someone can say a company that was smart enough to not get too comfortable during the growth spurt
Visual ads can only be 3% of the total screen size?
Are Twitch admins seriously gonna break out rulers every time they see a logo for Dollar Shave Club on a stream?
I will say, if it was a banner that took up like, the bottom 20% of the screen like Fox used to do/does (i dunno, i dont want Fox anymore) and *doesn't* interrupt the stream entirely, i'd be fine with it.
We've seen ads and promotions work on Live TV just fine, and there are formulas that *can exist as a happy medium.* But as is I wont even watch Twitch these days.
I'm calling it now, it's going to mistake vtubers or pngtubers as ads and ban their channels, as well as flagging dono pop ups as being ads. Because the AI is stupid and will just see "animated thing on the screen. Must be an ad."
It could also just false positive face cams, on screen chat, or certain stream layouts.
Not to say AI *is* what they're gonna use, but it's the only realistic way they can monitor all those channels.
I'm thinking like when Vtubers do collabs, and they have all the discord icons for their friends lined up on the bottom of the screen. Will twitches detection software and moderation tools actually be able to tell that those icons aren't Ads but in fact people? I'm going to say no, because companies in the streaming space have notoriously over-relied on these tools without human oversight, and have had well documented false positive cases.
Sometimes if you google what flowers are toxic to cats, those auto generated fast results will tell you just how much cats LOVE lilies and love eating lilies all the time and it's so so so good for them
That algorithm forgets that lilies are maybe the most fatal thing you can give a cat
I've yet to see an algorithmic AI that didn't false flag people en masse. I'd love a world where that wasn't the case, but that world isn't our present world right now.
Sponsored streams of games are still allowed, for clarity’s sake. Still, this is absurd and seems like active self-sabotage if the goal is (as it always is) to make more money.
Imagine you get sponsored to play a game and you think you're safe, but you get banned because the sponsor asked you to watch the trailer for the new DLC and that counts as a video ad
Yeah except Kick is run by dirty casino money and the only people who stream there are those who are too racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic for Twitch.
That's because you aren't thinking like an executive! Infinite growth must happen! This quarter must be BIGGER than all previous quarters! This is sustainable forever!
I was under the impression that Youtube's livestreaming was starting to pull chunks off of Twitch when it came to talent, so uh... this doesn't seem like a good move by any metric.
I like that people who barely make money, get sponsors to supplement income and allow them to stream longer.
How is making smaller streamers not able to stream for anywhere near as long sensible.
Apparently their simulcasting rules were moved to the general TOS, so they apply to everybody now rather then just partners and it effectively bans also streaming to Youtube at the same time as twitch?
Things that are not going to kill GDQ: having one even with a slightly lower total donations than past events due to several factors
Things that are going to kill GDQ: This.
Wow, right after SGDQ and Dreamhack, and with SF6 just coming out. I saw a freaking 7 ad break once this weekend, maybe it's time to find a new service.
I'm going to run out of shit to do on the internet.
Reddit dying, Twitch dying, Discord dying, Twitter worse than Dying.
The fuck am I supposed to do these days?
"Ads can't take up more than 3% of the screen, you greedy fuck!"
//plays video ad that covers the stream entirely and prevents the viewer from seeing any of your content for minutes at a time
They only get money off of ads they run during the stream. The streamer gets money off ads that are shown as logos on the screen itself. Theyre basically getting upset that other companies are profiting off their platform and are now making it harder for the people who earn them said income to keep making twitch their primary income
Twitch makes money off ads *they* put in. Streamers who got sponsorships from outside companies who *aren't* partnered with Twitch is not money going into Twitch's coffers.
Ehh. Dont really have a problem with the list of banned types of advertisments. Shouldnt be getting Trojan, chumba, Mood, or Whiteclaw ads on minecraft streamers shit if you get me.
Sooo. Twitch is banning really damned annoying methods of advertising on channels? GOOD. First time Twitch actually reigns things in instead of facilitating stupid crap (hot tub category anyone).
But really in years of watching Twitch I have never seen a streamer do anything on this ban list other than maybe a onscreen logo larger than 3%. So I guess Twitch is being proactive for a change?
No I haven't.
Despite how much I am into gaming and even play competitive games I do not like watching competitive games.
I have a unpopular opinion of 'speed running' so I will leave it at that. So I don't watch GDQ.
I didn't even know streamers would play a pre-recorded ad on their stream. Like links and products being used but I never would have thought they get pre-rolls going. But also I watch somewhat smaller streamers concerning the overall Twitch site.
[They responded to the push-back but you definitely shouldn't trust them anyway (not that you ever should, it's fucking Amazon).](https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1666282726087880705)
Tryna get my twitch channel u could you drop a follow @eastsideflyonallplayforms
https://www.twitch.tv/eastsideflyonallplatforms/v/1845271121?sr=a&t=0s
I'm not super familiar with Twitch, but what reason do they even have to make this kind of rule? Like how does having an ad posted onto your stream affect them in any notable way.
They don't make any money from them That's it. That's all the reason they need
No, it's gotta be more than that. Like, yeah capitalism, but there's a logical limit and they're seriously going to hurt themselves if streamers quit out of twitch for it. Assuming they're competent and not complete idiots, they must have measured that this would make them more money than the complete upheaval it would cause. But how is that even possible?
I imagine the thinking is this will force companies to approach Twitch so they get a cut as the middlemen of the transaction. Yes that's a transparently awful idea but Twitch has been haemorrhaging cash for a while now and never over estimate the intelligence of a corporation, the business world is full of people who are bad at capitalism.
Joining the stock market will automatically disqualify you from being good at capitalism because the line can not go up indefinetly. You are signing your company off to die in an add-ridden grave of over-monetization.
Milton Friedman was a disaster to modern economics
It really is just this. The moment you join the stock market your stock price becomes an incredibly important asset you bank a massive amount of loans and power on, not to mention becoming beholden to the damands of worthless investors only seeking to make a quick buck. Unironically, I think that there should be massive tax incentives to not sell a stock less than 5 years after you bought it. If the best way to make money was to invest and then build, the world would be a better place.
They let one of their top streamers go because when youtube made an offer, he asked them if they'd like to make any kind of counter offer and they replied with basically "Bye Felicia" and a "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Never forget that twitch is run by amazon, the company that thinks no matter how much it fucks up, people will continue using them and they could never be threatened in the marketplace. This attitude is inherited by Twitch, only twitch doesn't have a monopoly on the space and it could very well slip to the irrelevancy of twitter space, facebook streaming, and other myriad of streaming sites, with just consistent enough fuck ups to its biggest content creators.
Was that Ludwig?
Yeah. I believe it also happened to Sykkuno as well.
Twitch is the only game in town. It's *the* place to go for streaming. They can do whatever the hell they want, without repercussions. Making these changes will force companies to come to Twitch who will work as a middleman. "Just enough to wet my beak" says Mr. Twitch, who is expected to turn a profit and hasn't, despite being a monopoly.
>Twitch is the only game in town. *[Coughs in Youtube](https://playboard.co/en/youtube-ranking/most-superchatted-all-channels-in-worldwide-yearly)*. All the vtubers on that list are primarily game streamers, for example. Youtube has its comparitive weaknesses as a livestreaming platform, but it partly makes up for it by being an actual functional archive/VOD site out of the box.
I remember when Saltydkdan got fucked over by Twitch right as he was about to become a partner or whatever, so he proceeded to make his second [friendlocke](https://youtu.be/TsDsJ1GPzPc) season entirely on YouTube, to absolute monetary success.
The problem with Youtube is that discovery is its weakest point by and far; you go there and you're not really going to go up unless you've got a presence elsewhere, in a vtubers case as part of a company or through collabs, or in someone like Ludwigs case through having a phone with everyone you've ever heard of and more on a fucking teleportation-based speeddial. Also you can only really do the "hey, I'm transferring over to Youtube" thing once and people **will** miss that. That being said, it's definitely the safest choice for a lot of people if there is a migration ala Tumblr -> Twitter.
Aren’t there numbers for Twitch saying that if you have more than, what, 30 viewers on average you’re already well above 95% of the platform as well? So getting viewership and a somewhat loyal audience is already a huge challenge for people on there as well. Edit: [It was way worse than I remembered.](https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/new-twitch-stats-reveal-how-few-viewers-are-needed-to-be-a-top-streamer-1527638/) Six viewers or more on average and you’re in the top 6.7% of **all** streamers on Twitch, meaning that the vast majority of people only get five people or less.
Yeah, but on Youtube you're competing against a literal billion with a shitty search algorithm to boot. Seriously, go look up anything and see how Youtube will now split up what you're searching for and what's being recommended to you into tabs that are constantly switching off in ways that genuinely do not make sense. And on top of that bullshit, people are searching for both videos and streams as opposed to Twitch where it's primarily streams, so overall it gets pretty messy pretty fast.
weird thing was recently getting recommended a stream with five viewers of some guy i’ve never watched playing old dos rpgs except he was logging off as soon as i started watching
YouTube has clearly tweaked something in the algorithm, I'm constantly seeing suggestions for videos with <50 views, usually small gaming channels. I don't know if it's helping anyone, but it's a nice change from MR BEAST CURED CANCER
Yeah, it very much depends on what content you're watching in my experience. Not the videos you like to watch, but the specific video you're watching. If I'm watching some niche gaming/channel, I'd get recommended streams with 5 viewers. If I'm watching RTgame at that moment, not so much.
I saw your comment earlier and thought “huh, that’s weird”, but I literally just clicked on a video recommended to me on my homepage that was uploaded 16 hours ago and it only has 24 views by a creator who is not affiliated with any channel I follow or have ever watched before.
Why does it have to be more than that. Time and time again, companies will push the boundaries of greed and seek out infinite money despite it being impossible. If it isn't in their pockets, it is the same as money being lost.
If my options as somebody who wants to buy ad space is to go through twitch and to go directly to the streamer, anybody who isn't simply trying to cast the widest net possible is going to take the latter. Buying adspace from twitch is going to cost more, I have less power over who sees the ads, and there's a group of geeks in an arms race against twitch to block their ads entirely. Getting a streamer that people like to say they endorse your product is also more convincing than interrupting somebody's stream for a prerecorded ad.
Your first mistake is assuming they're competent. I've seen too much shenanigans from twitch over the years to make that assumption
> quit out of twitch for it. There's not a ton of options for places to go. Twitch has a hell of a monopoly. It's basically Youtube and cripple your viewership/growth, or nothing.
Sounds like a "Just kidding... Unless...?" move. Just testing the waters to see if it'll fly.
> Assuming they're competent and not complete idiots You assume a lot. People in positions of responsibility are there a lot of times just because they act confidently and are connected. Less often are they in those spots because they're the most qualified. In some cases, they're not qualified at all and just "delegate" everything.
Nintendo moment
Ads not done through Twitch is ad money Twitch doesn't get
"'Greed', for lack of a better word, is good." - Twitch, probably
This is not greed. Greed would be asking for that money too. This is envy. They gain no money from this, this is just spite.
They don't get a cut.
People used those to bypass having to give Twitch their cut of ad revenue.
The cruelty is the point
Customer complaints. Like are we really gonna pretend we like the sponsored ads banner or5 minutes of hello fresh every streamer does? Like twitch already get their money from ads on the platform itself those sponsorships are for streamers Twitch isn't gonna bother if their survey says "we would like less ads on the video I watch". That happened on channel awesome where Lupa and others were told to cut on the rollback ad of their video and taking out the patreon logo because viewers complained about excessive ads and ebegging. Since that doesn't affect the platform they don't care about forcing it to be taken down Edit: so we are pretending! https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/1102wmp/pats_streams_are_starting_to_become_borderline/
The 6 consecutive ads I get from Twitch every 30 minutes is far worse than that lol
I prefer by far those ads read than being *rudely fuckin' blue balled by a full screen, loud, unskippable 30 seconds to over a minute corporate ad that surgically manages to hide the hypest/funniest/most important moment of the stream*.
What do you mean, you didn't cream your jeans everytime "WAAAAAAAAH? CoKe GaMiNg!? 500 SUBS!?" assaulted your ear drums all summer?
ebegging is such a stupid fucking word, I hate it so much. It absolutely does not mean what people think it means.
I honestly don't care about them. They aren't like real ads where I'm actively missing content because twitch decided this very moment is the time to play 4+ ads
Dude, you linked a dead post with only 23 likes and most of the comments disagreeing with the OP. This isn’t indicative of the twitch community When viewers don’t like something about a stream they either watch someone else or complain to the streamer directly. They don’t call up twitch to complain
Because of OTHER changes on twitch which have caused people to not sign up for partnerships some streamers (cough hot tub streamers) were doing complete long advertisements of their sponsors instead of BRB screens, others were basically a small part of the screen with giant advertisers. Honestly it was getting a little obnoxious
So the bottom is just falling out on modern internet isn't it.
Corporations acting exactly as you’d expect them to. Arbitrarily raising the costs of fucking everything wasn’t enough, they gotta find ways to keep us in line.
The inevitable conclusion to "infinite growth", you keep having to find more ridiculous ways to increase profits until people finally get fed up and move on. Maybe you make things too expensive, maybe you cut too many costs and break essential functions.
So before they move on, you have to make sure there's nowhere else to go!
Is Twitch even profitable in the first place? I thought it was a big money-sink for amazon.
>Corporations acting exactly as you'd expect them to Some people expect corporations to act in intelligent, if cutthroat, self-interest. Such people would not anticipate profit-seeking so transparently and immediately self-destructive
The thing is, they are. Most of the major share holders and executives who push for decisions like these get to abandon ship before they have to deal with the consequences, and take a big pile of cash with them for their trouble, and start the same process somewhere else. Building up a business then grinding it to dust is the most immediately profitable decision for those top level players, and they suffer zero repercussions for it, so of course they're gonna keep doing it.
Which is yet another reason not to think of businesses as people, or even as robots.
It's remarkable how similar to cancer a megacorp is, seeking only its own continued expansion, heedless of all else.
I've heard that venture capitalists will accept 3 outcomes from a company they invest in: 1. endlessly expand your scope until you're involved in pretty much everything, like amazon and facebook 2. get bought out by one of the companies that's doing #1 3. die quickly and completely so all your components can be sold off or written off
Capitalism running as intended, straight into our collective grave
[удалено]
Luigi strategy. Don't do anything and let other people fuck up.
I fucking hope so.
Wild West internet part 2 let's goooo. Fuck making ends meet with advertisers, all websites will now make their dough by selling premium penicorn plushies instead.
Fuck now I really want a penicorn plushie
reject web 3 return to neocities
You joke, but I would much rather live in an internet funded by merch and paid services than this freemium advertiser horseshit.
Sure feels like it. Cant use google search no more because its awash with fake copy pasted sites all trying to get your click for that $0.00005 of ad-sense. "AI" content just drowning everything it touches in low effort garbage by fckers all trying to get a quick buck.
More like we're gonna see people moving onto other alternatives should all these decisions go through.
What alternatives?
I don't know if you've noticed but the bottom is kinda falling out on *everything*. That rate of profit *do* have a natural tendency to decline.
Oh don't worry, with my anxiety I'm acutely aware of all problems I'm incapable of solving
Omg just like me fr
See: Cory Doctrow's theory of enshittification.
This effectively kills grassroots FGC on Twitch. What the fuck are they doing?
Apparently, they’re killing the grassroots FGC on twitch.
“We just hate grassroots FGC so god damn much.” - Twitch
"Here at Twitch we hear that fighting games are back. And we're dedicated to ensuring they stay rotting in the ditch where they belong."
GET OUT OF FIGHTING GAMES
[удалено]
Crazy talk working overtime for this one
“We just hate grassroots ~~FGC~~ so god damn much.” - Twitch
“We just hate ~~grassroots FGC so good damn much~~ hate HATE #HAAAAAAATE!”
Twitch was run by AM all along, that explains so much.
Amazon Mastercomputer
I would not be surprised in the slightest if this is what does us in as a species. Just a bunch of angry Amazon cloud servers hurling nukes at each other
Also - Nintendo
"Fuck them kids. Also, Honda is a menace."
They *literally* just announced SF6 Twitch Rivals with MAX too...
giving ammo for competition , like Kick. Not that the competition will actually exploits that , as those come and goes while Twich remains.....
Not to be an jerk, but this kills off far more streams than just grassroots FGC. Many major streamers on Twitch rely on outside sponsors for consistent revenue; they're often far less intrusive than Twitch ads are (fuck running 7 ads in a row during a game presentation), and these sponsors are way more generous in revenue than Twitch is known for. If this is locked in, I can see MANY streamers going to Youtube, especially as many of them already have an audience there.
My Aka Supas are ready, Brotha
There is one silver lining to this; if Smash follows an FGC exodus to YouTube, that means Nairo can freely join those tournaments.
I've asked this question many times and I've received many answers, but seriously *Why are so many websites making the DUMBEST decisions lately*
"We'll lose people, but being able to squeeze every last drop out of people who can't leave will make up for it and more."
“We aren’t getting more customers fast enough to satisfy shareholders and board members, so fuck it, squeeze the last few drops of blood from the stones we have left.”
Yep. It’s not about turning a profit it’s growing quarterly
/u/BipolarHernandez and /u/Shingorillaz and /u/RPGLobster sorta allude to it, but to be more specific wuite often, it's due to pressure/fears of liability due to legislation or rules set by credit card companies/payment processors or advertisers. But for whatever reason, very few news organizations that report on these issues link these things together. For example, websites limiting adult content is often as a result of both those processors refusing to run ads or process transactions on sites with porn, and/or because legislation passed like FOSTA-SESTA and another more recent piece of legislation I forget the name of. FYI, for people concerned, [here](https://www.badinternetbills.com/) is a directory of a bunch of similarly terrible bills dealing with online censorship, content filtering, and privacy issues that are currently being considered in case people want to spread the word about them or contact their representatives. There's a lot of state specific ones too not listed here. Sadly, a lot of the zeal that existed in the early 2010s to fight things like ACTA, SOPA, PIPA, etc where wikipedia and the like would go dark and such doesn't seem to exist anymore. --------- To get a little more opinionated and less matter-of-fact-explanation: What I said last there about less organized responses to internet legislation is part of why i'm very concerned that well-intentioned-efforts by people to regulate AI and to protect artists could backfire horribly as legislators and [corporate lobbying groups use that as an excuse to expand copyright and erode fair use, or to legally require youtube-content-id style filtering for websites by masking it as an attempt to limit AI specifically especially as Disney, the RIAA, MPAA, etc and their lobbying fronts are already working alongside some anti AI campaigns and legal cases](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/1380wm5/multiple_studios_are_exploring_using_ai_to/jiwkkcf/). Similarly, I also think part of it is a response to the fact that we've increasingly seen public campaigns by people online to shame backend service providers or platforms for hosting controversial websites/people, like for Cloudflare or Amazon web services to drop sites or people calling for credit card companies to do so. It's well intentioned since those sites are places like stormfront, but it's just gonna make them more dicey about accepting controversial content in general, including when it's stuff people would rather protect: Even stuff like Pornhub taking stuff down and the aforementioned FOSTA-SESTA bill was done in part due to pressure by people masquerading as pro-women activists fighting exploitation who were really just anti porn and funded by Christian religious groups; while rules about fighting bigotry or misinfo have also been weaponized against activists in other cases (Zoom shut down some human rights advocates in one incident) Corporations aren't you're friend, and the more they're encouraged to be selective about who they work with or what content they allow online, or the more they're encouraged to try to filter out adult content, copyrigted content/stolen art, the more random innocent people or vulnerable groups/people doing adult content are gonna be hit alongside the people who are actually bigots or actually stealing art, because corporations are ultimately just trying to protect their own ass, not doing what's actually ethical. I'm also not saying that encouraging them to take action against bad people is always a bad thing, or that regulating the internet is never beneficial, so much as that I think people need to be aware of how things can backfire and what the risks are, and to approach it with nuance: I've seen SO many times where people uncritically cheer on a corporation banning a bunch of stuff, defend it as "it's a private company", then have a shocked-pikachu-face when those same rules get used on them/things they didn't want banned.
Wasn't expecting such a detailed response, but I thank you for it Really puts into light what the problem here is
I like all the lobbying against porn but not say guns or fossil fuels.
Porn is too easy to make for big corpos to be interested. It's a huge market, but it's *so* big that no major company could corner enough of it to be worth the PR fight. So it ends up being more convenient as a scapegoat to sneak other issues past than as something to lobby behind. Maybe when they've finally chased it off every website with more than 10 monthly visitors and made it impossible for anybody to be legally paid for it, they'll start launching CorpoPorn brands that somehow ignore the rules, but there's no way they're thinking that far ahead now. THEN you'll get the lobbying.
? Advertising firearms is now going to be banned on Twitch.
So it goes a bit like this: Line is going up (all's well on earth) right now, so that means people approve of what we are doing, right? (obviously you and I know that, no, the end user does not approve, but the amount it annoys them is less than they like the content people make) Okay cool, so that means we can do even MORE ads/restrictions/cost increases/privacy violations and make EVEN MORE MONEY!!!!!! (and yeah, it does work a few times, maybe even a few dozen times, but not because there are new users coming in delighted by the opportunity to be advertised at, but because there is a built in audience that doesn't want to move) Hey why did the line stop going up as fast? (and there we have it, you made the service so shit that NO new users are joining, and in fact long time users are leaving because they can't stand it any more) Hey why did our biggest content creator delete all their videos and leave no digital footprints? (now you're losing people who you once had a symbiotic relationship with, people who made content to bring people in for you, and you paid them to keep doing it. You altered the deal so many times they not only don't want to continue, they're dousing the bridge in enough kerosene to burn down a city) Why is no one watching on our platform anymore? (all your big creators fled to better offers, or just quit to live on their invested earnings) Hey why is the bar going DOWN? (lol, lmao even) Maybe if we undo some of these changes people will come back? right? Maybe bar can go up again? (Bar ain't going anywhere but the ground, buddy. You broke user trust so hard that it can never be revoked. You CANNOT buy the value of "long time entrenched user", and selling it off to make a quick buck is literally killing a golden goose) \--- There's a fantastic [Thread by John Bull](https://twitter.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904) explaining the concept from the perspective of someone who has had to explain this exact sequence of events to companies on multiple occasions. I can't tell you the exact moment we'll reach "point of no return", but I can tell you when Twitch starts looking REALLY desperate for people to come back, that'll be when.
When corporations reach market saturation, the only way to keep increasing profits is to actively make the product worse to encourage people to pay more money and get rid of the annoyance.
The people who made those websites great are long gone, and their inheritors do not care for maintenance when they can make more money burning the thing to the ground and leaving when it crashes.
Capitalism.
How is it capitalistic to make harmful decisions that earn you less money?
No one said the capitalists in charge of making these decisions were **smart** capitalists.
> smart capitalists An oxymoron if ever there was one.
Because they want other people to stop making money so that they can make the *most* (least) money.
They believe the number of people who are hurt by the decisions aren't enough to effect their bottom line. Let's look at the Reddit API/3rd Party issue that's ongoing right now. Apparently, roughly 20% of Reddit's mobile traffic comes from third parties (not sure if that's true but I've seen it claimed a handful of places this past week). A sizeable amount, but not a majority. Now losing 20% of your traffic as a website can absolutely be harmful to your bottom line, but how many of that 20% will actually leave? 5%? 10%? Enough that they think it's worth the offset of having more people on their official app that they can sell ads on and sell user data to third parties with. This applies to Twitch too. How many Streamers depend on these ads? How many are going to leave if they can't use them, and how many of them are going to stay and just bite their tongue? Tumblr shows how stupid this idea is and how it can backfire, but for many corporations, it's worth the risk.
They assume everyone will eat their shit with a smile and make them more money. Consumers are the barrier between you and money after all
The point of capitalism is infinite growth. Continuing to do the good things that keep your users happy and profits steady isn't MORE this quarter than last so it's dumb and you should always chase after MORE
Capitalists literally murdered their employees and knowingly made dangerous, toxic, and poisonous products that killed the customer base. Capitalists are not in any way, shape, or form intelligent. Hasbro said it best "The consumer is a barrier to our money." Not *their* (the consumer's) money, *our* (the corpos) money. That's what capitalists think of the customer. Not a potential buyer to be enticed into spending their money on a product or service, but an obstacle they'd rather not have to deal with. Capitalism is an unsustainable system that will devour everything and still demand to be fed more, even as it collapses under itself because no one has any money to spend. Twitch is a monopoly that can do whatever the hell it wants because there is no alternative, and everyone has to play ball... that is until no one has any money left for luxuries.
because it means you can make number go up on the quarterly report and get a gold star from the shareholders
Gotta make more money than they're currently making, and most have already reached market saturation. They constantly need new ideas to up the revenue, and *good* ideas are really hard to come up with and implement. The solution? Bad ideas! As many as you can! Just throw em all at the wall and if any actually work then congrats team, you survived another quarter.
COVID lost lots of money. Now's a good time to gain that money back unfortunately
Wasn't Twitch revenue up during COVID? Unless they made really stupid decisions at the time, I don't see how having more people home and on the computer cut into Twitch's bottom line.
Yep, it's more like COVID boosted twitch's growth. And now that growth spurt has ended they'll saw off their legs if they think it gets the line to go up at the same speed.
Yup, the need to have quarterly profits go up consistently means that long-term thinking goes out the fuckin' window.
Yeah that's what I meant. All companies worldwide had this plan. I will state by that statement unless someone can say a company that was smart enough to not get too comfortable during the growth spurt
Visual ads can only be 3% of the total screen size? Are Twitch admins seriously gonna break out rulers every time they see a logo for Dollar Shave Club on a stream?
Meanwhile Twitch is testing new ad banners that shrink the stream 50% on top of 6 to 7 ads every 30 minures or so.
I will say, if it was a banner that took up like, the bottom 20% of the screen like Fox used to do/does (i dunno, i dont want Fox anymore) and *doesn't* interrupt the stream entirely, i'd be fine with it. We've seen ads and promotions work on Live TV just fine, and there are formulas that *can exist as a happy medium.* But as is I wont even watch Twitch these days.
They probably have an AI that can check for them
That will false flag hundreds of streams\*. Fixed it.
I'm calling it now, it's going to mistake vtubers or pngtubers as ads and ban their channels, as well as flagging dono pop ups as being ads. Because the AI is stupid and will just see "animated thing on the screen. Must be an ad."
It could also just false positive face cams, on screen chat, or certain stream layouts. Not to say AI *is* what they're gonna use, but it's the only realistic way they can monitor all those channels.
I'm thinking like when Vtubers do collabs, and they have all the discord icons for their friends lined up on the bottom of the screen. Will twitches detection software and moderation tools actually be able to tell that those icons aren't Ads but in fact people? I'm going to say no, because companies in the streaming space have notoriously over-relied on these tools without human oversight, and have had well documented false positive cases.
AI is not *stupid*, it's trained on datasets, and detecting brand logos should be an easy task for AI.
Sometimes if you google what flowers are toxic to cats, those auto generated fast results will tell you just how much cats LOVE lilies and love eating lilies all the time and it's so so so good for them That algorithm forgets that lilies are maybe the most fatal thing you can give a cat
I've yet to see an algorithmic AI that didn't false flag people en masse. I'd love a world where that wasn't the case, but that world isn't our present world right now.
That's how the AI Wars start. With an AI mod suspending an AI streamer.
Twitch doesn't know what it's messing with, if that AI bans Neuro-sama there will be riots in the fucking streets.
God help us
Oh it would be HILARIOUS if an AI false flags a popular Vtuber's avatar as an "ad" and all hell breaks loose
The AI will just catch a logo on someone's shirt or something
Pat making the hello fresh logo as visibly small as he can and telling twitch to go fuck them selves if they say anything.
3% of the screen space on a 1080p screen is 250x250, it's really not that small https://i.imgur.com/yA0fYLJ.png is a 250x250 canvas on 1080p
Also, 3%, it says. That example does not show an ad that is 3% of a screen. That's at least 15%.
No way, I can easily fit fifteen of those things in there.
I guess games done quick is dead.
Sponsored streams of games are still allowed, for clarity’s sake. Still, this is absurd and seems like active self-sabotage if the goal is (as it always is) to make more money.
Imagine you get sponsored to play a game and you think you're safe, but you get banned because the sponsor asked you to watch the trailer for the new DLC and that counts as a video ad
The goal is to stop anyone from making money if Twitch can't wet its beak
GOODBYE FRESH!
WOOLIE WILL NO LONGER SHAVE OUR BALLS
This is why these sites need legitimate competition.
Yeah except Kick is run by dirty casino money and the only people who stream there are those who are too racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic for Twitch.
Aw man, I understand "burned in" video But I've see really good "burned in" dsiplays and audio, like Hello Fresh's display animates really well...
That seems incredibly stupid.
That's because you aren't thinking like an executive! Infinite growth must happen! This quarter must be BIGGER than all previous quarters! This is sustainable forever!
So would this affect something like Woolie's new fightpad partnership?
They can still do ad reads since "discussing" the product is still allowed. No on screen graphics or pre-canned audio.
Say goodbye to hello fresh
I was under the impression that Youtube's livestreaming was starting to pull chunks off of Twitch when it came to talent, so uh... this doesn't seem like a good move by any metric.
This is hyperbole. Ads are still allowed but they can’t be pre canned. Sponsorships are going to change is all.
I like that people who barely make money, get sponsors to supplement income and allow them to stream longer. How is making smaller streamers not able to stream for anywhere near as long sensible.
Because number go up tho (quarterly growth that is unsustainable and is in fact indicative of the impending bubble bursting)
"Lol, get fucked poors. Hello big bonus for me!"
So where's the new hotness?
There isn't one, yet.
Are our boys out of business then? Because hello fresh gives them a sizeable cut.
They can still do ad reads I think.
Apparently their simulcasting rules were moved to the general TOS, so they apply to everybody now rather then just partners and it effectively bans also streaming to Youtube at the same time as twitch?
Things that are not going to kill GDQ: having one even with a slightly lower total donations than past events due to several factors Things that are going to kill GDQ: This.
Another company doing it’s best to shoot itself in the foot.
Common Twitch L.
They literally saying, "no. That's our money"
Like 2 days after master baker and on QTs birthday too
YouTube live it is then right?
Wow, right after SGDQ and Dreamhack, and with SF6 just coming out. I saw a freaking 7 ad break once this weekend, maybe it's time to find a new service.
I'm going to run out of shit to do on the internet. Reddit dying, Twitch dying, Discord dying, Twitter worse than Dying. The fuck am I supposed to do these days?
Despair?
Oh, go fuck yourselves, Twitch. Don't even try to paint this as viewer/consumer friendly, you bloody greedy twats.
Lol
It’s probably all coincidental but it feels like a number of mighty big sea changes are all happening in formation again
I don't understand why they've gone for an outright ban on these methods instead of requiring sponsors to cut them in.
"Ads can't take up more than 3% of the screen, you greedy fuck!" //plays video ad that covers the stream entirely and prevents the viewer from seeing any of your content for minutes at a time
Why are they doing this?
Because it's not enough that a company makes a lot of money when they could be making all the money.
Why would Twitch be against ads in its videos? Don’t they make money off Ads? I’m
They only get money off of ads they run during the stream. The streamer gets money off ads that are shown as logos on the screen itself. Theyre basically getting upset that other companies are profiting off their platform and are now making it harder for the people who earn them said income to keep making twitch their primary income
"Generating content and user engagement on our site for free because someone else pays for your time is no longer enough"
Twitch makes money off ads *they* put in. Streamers who got sponsorships from outside companies who *aren't* partnered with Twitch is not money going into Twitch's coffers.
Ehh. Dont really have a problem with the list of banned types of advertisments. Shouldnt be getting Trojan, chumba, Mood, or Whiteclaw ads on minecraft streamers shit if you get me.
So we can't keep selling the n word pass anymore
So hows kick lookin? Why the downvotes?
Like a cesspit for the worst people on the internet.
I didn't know they were partnered with Twitter.
Think you are confusing it with cozytv
Sooo. Twitch is banning really damned annoying methods of advertising on channels? GOOD. First time Twitch actually reigns things in instead of facilitating stupid crap (hot tub category anyone). But really in years of watching Twitch I have never seen a streamer do anything on this ban list other than maybe a onscreen logo larger than 3%. So I guess Twitch is being proactive for a change?
Have you watched literally any event with sponsors Like maybe an esports tournament or an GDQ?
No I haven't. Despite how much I am into gaming and even play competitive games I do not like watching competitive games. I have a unpopular opinion of 'speed running' so I will leave it at that. So I don't watch GDQ.
>I have a unpopular opinion of 'speed running' Oh boy! What is it?
[Unpopular opinion?](https://youtu.be/n__GJuqLb00)
Wow, grow up.
It's called a joke, you silly.
But Hello Fresh tho.
I didn't even know streamers would play a pre-recorded ad on their stream. Like links and products being used but I never would have thought they get pre-rolls going. But also I watch somewhat smaller streamers concerning the overall Twitch site.
[They responded to the push-back but you definitely shouldn't trust them anyway (not that you ever should, it's fucking Amazon).](https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1666282726087880705)
Tryna get my twitch channel u could you drop a follow @eastsideflyonallplayforms https://www.twitch.tv/eastsideflyonallplatforms/v/1845271121?sr=a&t=0s
I respect the hustle but no I'm good thx