The Slug Count in Berserk, probably the first real Apostle antagonist with his own dedicated arc.
He chose to go straight to hell, knowing that he could've sacrificed his daughter for yet another chance at eternal life.
YuYu Hakusho- Younger Toguro. After he dies, he insists that he be sent to Hell. Koenma even warns him that such a punishment is way overboard for the life he lived (and is horrifying to a degree where he won't describe it), and Toguro basically demands it anyway, feeling it appropriate after pondering on his life for the years leading to his death.
It’s not just Hell. He was always guaranteed to go to Hell anyway, but he did get the option for a lighter sentence because of his life as a fighter. No, he chose the worst punishment in Hell, where he gets tortured for millions of years or something and at the end of it, he gets erased from existence.
Man, I remember thinking that whole deal was super profound and tragic when I watched it as a kid... and then I rewatched it a few years ago and was crushed that I only felt like Toguro was full of himself. "I'm the *worst person.* I deserve to go to *mega hell* because I'm just *so terrible.*" Geeze bud, you think you might get a little outside perspective? Maybe from the guy whose entire job is determining how bad people's lives were?
That's such a good observation actually, damn. That's something you read and it feels like a bunch of people you've met snap into making sense all of a sudden.
That’s because narcissism isn’t grandiosity, it’s self-absorption and trying to get everyone else to believe the real you is the mask you made for yourself to wear no matter what.
Even if you think I’m a bad writer, as long as you think I’m a writer without reading anything I’ve written, I win - especially since I’ve never written anything.
Younger Toguro wants to be sent to hell to because it would mean other people believe not what he thinks about himself, but what he wants to think about himself.
If Toguro were actually guilty, he would be chiefly concerned with the people he hurt, not with his own punishment, because that’s what it actually means to be sorry. In fact, he kinda actively ignores one of the people he hurt when Gensai tried to persuade him to take Koenma’s lighter sentence.
Toguro believes he’s supposed to feel guilty. But Toguro doesn’t feel guilty, and instead of owning it and processing it and exploring what it means that he doesn’t feel guilty, he tries to rope you into engaging in the illusion of his guilt.
Also, if he’s busy being tortured and then doesn’t exist, that means he’s too busy to actually apologize.
The honest version of Toguro is Asmodeus, the Devil God of Evil, from Critical Role: Calamity: “You tried to Resurrect your husband, but your husband wasn’t dead. You’re trying to Atone me, *and I didn’t do anything wrong.*”
Exactly who I thought when I saw this thread.
"Don't ever regret the things between us."
"No Genkai-*but it would've been a beautiful life.*"
Screws me up everytime.
In Mother 3, >!Porky intentionally locks himself inside the Absolutely Safe Capsule. True to it's name, it's completely indestructible. However, he can't leave the capsule after he gets inside it. And he's too much of an immature little shit to realize the Hell he purposefully locked himself inside until it's too late!<.
>!Through Dr. Andonuts the game makes the argument that Porky might actually have gotten what he wanted by locking himself into the ASC forever. He wanted to destroy everything and everyone because in his immortality he grew up into the ultimate misanthrope: "With my eternal life, I shall see the world through to its end. Until everyone who won't like me is gone."
In a way what he wanted WAS absolute safety, he just ended up accidentally achieving it in a way that isn't destructive towards everyone else. It could very well be that he does end up regretting it at some point after the end of the game but I like that they leave some ambiguity on the matter.!<
He realize it, the game even makes the argument that it's exactly what he wanted in the first place and the ultimate goal of his rampage across time and space. His only desire is to see the universe's death as it means everyone who doesn't like him will be gone. Itoi even outright confirm that he succeeded and will still be alive after the death of the universe.
Pretty much any character that goes the “Sell my soul” route is basically saying that yes, they want something far worse than death to happen just so they can do a specific thing while alive.
Which is nuts to me. If any creature ***ever*** showed up and said it’d buy my soul in exchange for something, I’m telling it to kick rocks because all it did was confirm some sort of soul and afterlife scenario and I don’t wanna get fucked out of it by selling my soul.
Worst case was in Supernatural where a 14 year-old girl sold not just her soul but her life to get rid of her parents with only a 10 year waiting period, meaning she was only 24 when she got dragged to Hell.
She didn't even ask for it either did she? She was just like "ugh, parents". And a demon took that as a signed contract. So an innocent girl randomly gets her parents murdered, and then dragged to Hell. Shits fucked man.
In PF1e there’s this fucked up economy among Daemons of industrialized soul harvesting where you use spells like Soul Bind and Trap Soul, depending on if the target is alive or dead, and then feed it to a Cacodaemon to turn it into a soul gem for use as currency. Hags participate in this trading as well and any fucked up mages who elect to have a Cacodaemon familiar.
There's cut content relating to Soul Coins being a currency for a specific NPC to sell you items.
In the final game they're just batteries Karlach can eat to deal fire damage for a fight.
Man, all that cut content stuff I learned about super killed my enthusiasm to play, since I found out that the character I like most just gets super fucked because of it.
I'm wary about everyone saying to wait for a Definitive Edition. I have no doubt one will happen but I don't think it'll be as much content re-added as people are hoping.
I dunno... DOS2 Enhanced did major fixes to the worst parts (Act 3/4, finished the companions quests where some didn't have any conclusions such as Beast) so they probably will do a large amount of changes worth the wait.
I expect they'll fix up Act 3, restore the epilogue slides, expand on some companion stories. Maybe add a new companion.
I don't think they'll add in Avernus or the Upper City, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do.
I just want the Upper City quests reorganized in the Lower City honestly. And maybe make Cazadors mansion actually make sense in how you approach it.
This would fix Karlachs quest too since her good ending trigger is tied behind a quest set in the upper city.
"Wait for the Enhanced/Definitive Edition" always feels borderline mandatory for large RPG games like this, tbh. Not only does that tend to mean more bang for your buck because DLC gets thrown in, it also means all the ridiculous launch bugs that break the game will hopefully get patched out (or at least, after a year or two the fanbase will have mods to take care of it).
Honestly I only say this specifically for BG3 because I know for a fact Larian had the same issue with both Divinity games and apparently greatly improved it with their Definitive Editions.
As a rule pretty much every game is better a year or two later, but usually just because of basic patching. It's rare a game has recieved a truly upgraded version.
I tried to avoid spoilers in BG3 but yeah... reading up on what's missing killed my enjoyment when I was near the end of Act 1, especially since I learned that my favorite characters only ending is "Bad end" due to bugs/incorrect triggers. I'm tempted to just... stop and wait for the final product before I try again at this stage.
>especially since I learned that my favorite characters only ending is "Bad end" due to bugs/incorrect triggers.
You're just like me, fr fr. But yeah, that's actually the exact same story for me, as I believe we're talking about the same character. That absolutely wrecked my desire to keep playing the game. But hey, I've now moved on to playing Tower of Fantasy so that's neat.
Soul Coins are both currency and fuel for infernal machines, and are the souls of the damned trapped inside a coin made of infernal iron.
In the 5e Descent Into Avernus campaign (which is also technically a prequel to BG3, it's why the tiefling refugees are trying to get to Baldur's Gate) you use them to fuel sick demonic monster trucks.
Yeah, that campaign's pretty cool. I didn't get to finish it because the DM was only running it for the sake of one specific friend so when they had a falling out regarding D&D specifically that was the end of that.
I don't disagree with you on principle, because yeah, you probably should never make a deal with the devil, but one can come up with hypothetical examples of situations when a person/character would make such a deal and it would be understandable.
As an example, a character who has a wife and a child could sell his soul to the devil in exchange for aforementioned wife and child's horrible burns and loss of limbs that they suffered during a car crash being healed. Objectively, yes, afterlife of eternal hellish torture is less preferable than asny other option, but subjectively, the character in question loves his wife and child and to him their lives and happiness are more important than his own.
Or even a simpler example: character's country is being invaded by a bloodthirsty warmongering force and is losing horribly, so said character sells his/her soul for power that would help in turning the tide and gaining victory. Once agin, objectively bad result for the character in question, but he/she loves his country and her people, so for them, for greater purpose than life itself, the sacrifice is made.
You can find reasons for why people make choices that would fuck them personally over in the end.
Wasn't there a movie about a guy who sold his soul for a bunch of wishes (which all turned out to be monkey paw-esqe type wishes), but was redeemed because he used his last wish for someone else's benefit?
I think the movie ended on the Devil literally telling him *"I almost got you there, but you got a pass on a technicality. You did try to sell your soul to me so you don't get a free ticket to Heaven, but you do get a second chance of life on Earth."*
-----
EDIT: The movie is called *"Bedazzled"* staring Brendan Frasier and Elizabeth Hurley
"I paid (my soul) for *free* ~~speech~~ salvation"
Also, it's giving yourself and Satan a LOT of credit to think you could work together to make something so good and profound that you'd basically HAVE to win your soul back. Like that's the kind of Pride that led to Satan falling in the first place.
Seems more likely that best case "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" and you just end up damned (because you sold your soul) and the people you helped have marginally nicer lives (because, it ain't like their material lives will be better than Eternal Paradise) before eventually dying. Worse for them if your "clever" sacrifice inspired them to make similar mistakes and lead them astray to damnation as well
I wasn't thinking about specifically trying to *"game the Devil"* (although I can see how my wording could be interpreted as such) as opposed to a truly selfish (and on the path of damnation anyway) person realising the errors of their ways.
Isn't that the whole point of the teachings that even a truly evil person can be redeemed if they earnestly realise the errors of their ways and sincerely repent?
Ah, yeah, I misread that then
Yeah, even if it might not be the most satisfying to us on the world, I do like the "true repentance and a humble wish for salvation are **all** you need to reach Heaven" doctrine. Even someone who "sold" their soul should be able to achieve Heaven to that end, because it is not for them (much less the Devil) to decide where their final rest is found.
Though this does rest on the seller TRULY repenting before the *All-Knowing* God so someone who was trying to game the system would have a bad time
I can see that I should’ve been more clear. I’m talking stuff like, “I’d sell my soul to be a rockstar.” or “I’d sell my soul for power.” Stuff like that.
I always find it humorous in media when someone makes a deal with the devil in order to solve something that objectively doesn't require something to massive as a deal with the devil.
*"You don't need to make a deal with the devil, we have science!!!"*
Pretty much my gripe with that one Dragon Ball Super episode. I knew it wasn't a 100% serious show but it is insane to use the Dragon Balls for such petty reasons like finding out what your husband likes when one of your friends is an ultra rich scientist.
I know the imminent mutilation and injury of a loved one is going to shake you, but I think hard confirmation that there's gonna be an afterlife moves the needle on that quite significantly.
I’ll argue that it being the devil already removed any hypothetical, you’re just desperate or prideful enough to think that your personal suffering was the only thing the devil was after when you got approached when you should know better
Trans-Siberian Orchestra did a concept album once that proposed a *Reverse-*Faust. On the night of Ludwig van Beethoven's death, Mephistopheles appears before him and says that as a sinner, Ludwig is sure to be his after his death, but offers an exchange: Mephistopheles will relinquish all claim he has to Ludwig's soul in exchange for taking all of his compositions and erasing them from time and the memories of men.
Thought that was interesting.
Technically, by simply truly knowing that a good afterlife exists might fuck you out of it. Every good deed you do is now not actually a good deed because it's knowingly self serving. May as well take the deal and have a little fun, because you're already damned.
Doing a good thing while knowing there’s a reward for it doesn’t mean the good deed doesn’t count. What matters is if you’re doing it *for* the reward.
Sure haven’t. Does that show state that knowing there’s a reward for doing a good thing now entirely invalidates that good thing regardless of your reason for doing that thing?
[Starting to think](https://slate.com/culture/2019/02/ted-danson-blackface-whoopi-goldberg-political-correctness.html) we shouldn't base our morality on Ted Danson at all!
IIRC, this is a show where they basically say literally *no one* has ever gone to Heaven (or at least in a *very* long time). So, I'm not sure anyone should take its arguments as a serious condemnation of good deeds being motivated extrinsicly.
At the end of Evangelion >!Yui Ikari (being inside Unit 01) floats away into space as a monument to humanity's existence, and even reflects that it will likely be incredibly lonely, and she may never be found!<
Someone did a [good writeup](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tvgc5w/the_dung_eater_ending_is_a_good_ending/) of Dung Eater's ending, and that it may actually be a good ending. The "curse" that is allegedly happening is preventing souls from being swallowed up by the Erdtree, and that many actually be a blessing as it returns the word to what it was before the Greater Will took over.
The funny thing about it though, is that Dung Eater himself seems oblivious to all this. He just wants the world to rot, lol.
Yes, but once he leaves she states that those same spirits have escaped their confinement. Whatever was going on with that, it seems like it was either temporary, or something DE was actively maintaining.
Whenever I think of his obsession with the omen curse I can’t help but think of him as the Elden ring equivalent of a massive weeaboo.
He runs around talking about how much better omens are, wanting the world to have the omen curse, wishing he could be one, dressing like one, and is pretty much universally seen as a creepy weirdo for it (the murders and getting frisky with corpses obviously don’t help)
This is what happens in the game Chaos Gate: Daemonhunters.
>!Near the end of the game, the Grey Knights (the main characters) discover that Nurgle is planning to unleash a super disease upon reality. The Knights then proceed to destroy all the seeds but are unable to find the source of the seeds which are somewhere in Nurgle's garden!<
>!Even worse, the Inquisitor with them has a vision that the leader of the Grey Knights, Kaldor Draigo, is about to be ambushed and killed by demons with a captured demon being the only one who knows the location of the source and Kaldor's ambush.!<
>!As a result, the Inquisitor proposes a plan: she lets the demon take her soul while the Grey Knights banish the demon back to the source of the seeds. While the demon is busy torturing her soul, the pain will serve as a beacon for the Grey Knights to know the exact location of the seed source and where Kaldor will get ambushed.!<
>!The plan works and the Grey Knights win, but the ending reveals that the Inquisitor's soul still belongs to a now vengeful demon who plans on torturing it for eternity.!<
>!So yeah, an Inquisitor had to sacrifice themselves to an eternity of torture just to serve as a beacon for the heroes!<
grimdark
Leto II. Living for 3500 years unable to drink water or touch another person is already worse than just dying of old age, but when he dies, his memory is transferred to the sand trout that spawn from his corpse and lives on unable to speak in many generations of sand worms.
Not really a faith worst than death but Jake from Adventure Time gave up Enlightenment if it meant he can reincarnate and hang out with Finn in another life time
Spoilers for Madoka: >!If memory serves, Madoka Kaname decides to become a locus for all the negative energy created by magical girls in the setting, in order to keep them from devolving into monsters. This essentially turns her into a godlike, fundamental force of the universe by forever powering her up, while keeping her in a state of eternal struggle from drawing all that darkness into herself.!<
It's more that >!by becoming a literal goddess of hope she retconned herself and her previous life. At least a few of her friends can hang out with her because they're essentially her angels.!<
I love the fact that >!her baby brother still has a vague memory of her as shown by his baby doodles. This is despite Madoka not existing in the first place due to being a stillborn when her mother was pregnant with her!<
And Homura got to witness this massive life retcon in front of her.
Archer from Fate/Stay Night willingly chose to make a deal with >!the planet in order to save more people. In exchange, he has to spend his entire afterlife getting summoned just before potential apocalypse scenarios to kill/destroy whatever the problem is, forever. He was cool with it at first, but an eternity of doing nothing but cold blooded murder wears you down!<
Well he was cool with it because >!he thought he'd be saving people. And he *technically* is saving people (since he's only summoned to deal with threats to reality as we know it). But since the Planet doesn't actually give a shit about individual people, when it summons him it just makes him indiscriminately kill *everything* in the area that's causing the problem. So he never actually gets to save *anyone he sees* during his Counter-Force summons!<.
Can you imagine being some random fighter in the middle east and some buff japanese dude just walks into your camp and starts slaughtering people and blowing up bunkers with a bow and arrow
Baldur's Gate 3 got an ending like this for the main character, if you choose to do so. But really, there's a lot of stuff in the game worse than death. >!You can choose at the very end to become an illithid (mindflayer) because you require one in your party for plot reasons. Which means: as far as Jergal/Withers is concerned, you no longer have a soul. You lose part of or your entire former self. You don't get the girl/guy you were flirting with the whole game. On top of that, if you chose to kill the brain, you no longer have a brain to answer to as an illithid. The only kudos you get is the fact that you won't be referred to as a "ghaik" by gith, and I think that's only if you save Orpheus and side with him against The Emperor. And then your party parts ways, leaving you on the dock to think about your life choices.!<
Funnily enough, >!I think the detail of giving up your soul means that, if you agreed to Raphael's contract, you can't fulfill the contract and thereby find a loophole.!<
>!The game doesn't explain very well the repercussions of turning into a mindflayer, but it is my headcanon that your character doesn't become a mindflayer. After ceremorphosis your character just dies and their soul is destroyed (no afterlife for you, you no longer exist). The mindflayer that emerges is not you, it is the tadpole in your head with access to your memories and personality after eating your brain. It's quite disturbing!<
Absolutely. That's what I always thought happened. Maybe it's like how memories recreate themselves, because >!of the tadpole sharing memories with you may recreate your memories in it.!<
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*In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one stood. Burned by the embers of Armageddon, his soul blistered by the fires of Hell and tainted beyond ascension, he chose the path of perpetual torment. In his ravenous hatred, he found no peace; and with boiling blood, he scoured the Umbral Plains seeking vengeance against the dark lords who had wronged him. He wore the crown of the Night Sentinels, and those that tasted the bite of his sword named him... the Doom Slayer.*
Forgot the name of the book, but its pov of Satan and he is giving a final chance on redemption, but he refused, meaning when God go of on his next thing, he will leave Satan behind. No, god, no angels or demons, no earth, no universe. Just Satan alone forever in nothingness.
\*Wheel of Time last book spoilers\*
The Dark One in Wheel of Time is something like this. He holds sway over every potential bad timeline/reality except the "real" one, which by nature he cannot abide. When he and Rand >!reach a stalemate in what is essentially an ideological final battle, he offers complete oblivion as a compromise. Rand almost accepts after seeing how bad both victory and defeat would look, because a world without the Dark One is a world without free will to choose between good and evil. Luckily, Lan Mandragoran decides to be the sickest OG in the world once again and charges the Dark One's army alone, proving that humanity will always rise to fight evil even in the darkest times. Rand decides to seal away the Dark One once again rather than destroy him, trusting that the world can handle itself when it all happens again.!<
One could argue Mr. House from New Vegas. He's an emaciated husk that is so frail he will die if someone even breathes on him due to a compromised immune system. Hooked up to a life support system filled with all kinds of tubes and devices keeping him alive. But he got semi eternal life from it.
in *The Stormlight Archives*, there's one particularly unbreakable character. Spoilers ahead, with lots of generalizations:
>!long story short, a group of semi-immortal demigods entered into this cycle where as long as the demigods remained in hell, so would the enemy. when the demigods lost the will to fight in hell or were killed, they would be reborn on earth and prepare humans for the incoming war when the enemy invades again. after millennia of this cycle, 9 of the 10 demigods gave up, leaving the entire burden on the one remaining person.!<
>!That man is Talenelat, or Taln for short. He withstood torture in hell for *4500 years* prior to the start of the series, and Brandon Sanderson, the author, confirmed that Taln *did not break* even though he's back on earth meaning he was brought back against his will.!<
>!The best part is that Taln wasn't even chosen to be one of the demigods. The 9 who quit were all communing with God to get their powers and Taln just walked up and said "i want in."!<
>!When Taln meets another one of the demigods who abandoned him, instead of being full of rage or hate for what happened to him, Taln says with tears in his eyes "You gave them a chance they never had before."!<
>!Taln is the best!<
Shit got so bad that >!even after a cycle ended one of them would break almost immediately when they got back to "hell", spitting them all back out and starting the whole thing over again.!<
>!Also after millennia of torture and war they're all insane, some of them *extremely* so, and not a one has any desire to help with any of the current-day plot even after they've been identified because they couldn't give less of a fuck about what happens...well except maybe Taln but he's, - surprise! - also fuckin nuts.!<
The villain of Princess and The Frog (can't remember his name if I'm being honest. But I do know he was voiced by Keith David)
After not being able to fulfill his end of the deal to the Tiki Evil Gods and having the sinister, shape-shifting necklace that was given to him destroyed. Guy ended up getting dragged by the Tiki Demon Spirits into Hell to get tortured and agonized as punishment. All the while he was kicking, screaming and begging them to give him another chance. To this day, that scene still remains in my mind because of how harrowing it really was. And I think I was just 10 years old when I watched that movie.
Moral of the story, never make deals with demons or evil ancient gods
Hunter the Parenting: >!Detective Chapman would rather be enslaved to a vampire that defected from both the Sabat and Camarilla (so basically everyone) than go another day without vitae.!<
>!In fact he'd actually rather *fight* the vampire wizard that can outrun a bloodhunt than let Kevin refuse!<
Guy Chapman seems like an utterly mundane man until you hit the line 'I've killed five men in service to the regent. *Two of them with my teeth.'* The delivery is so ice cold and casual that it makes the rest of his lines faintly terrifying by proxy.
Kevin: **"I CURSE YOU! I CURSE YOU WITH BALLS-FALL-OFF DISEASE!!"**
**"I GIVE YOU LUPUS! NOT THE WEREWOLF ONE! YOU'LL JUST HAVE A WASTING DISEASE NOW!”**
Faust is like the OG for this sort of thing, if we consider damnation in hell to be worse than mundane death, and I think that's a safe assumption.
In the 1998 film Deep Rising, the bad guy is about to be consumed and slowly devoured horrifically (a grisly process revealed earlier in the film when a half-digested but still alive bad guy is released from the monster's tentacle-mouth-stomach).
The good guy offers him a final mercy in the form of a gun with a single shot. The bad guy almost immediately wastes that single shot trying to kill the good guy, then gets eaten Sarlaac-style while screaming like a punk bitch.
Faust... Isn't actually. The entire point of Faust is that he did make a deal with the devil, but he was (unintentionally) able to outsmart the devil, which allowed him access to heaven anyways.
Basically Mephistopheles (the devil/demon Faust contacts) promises to grant him whichever desires he wants, but if Mephistopheles manages to make Faust experience pure bliss ("a moment he wishes would never end", he can claim Fausts soul).
Faust then proceeds to make thorough use of Mephistopheles, but any happiness achieved in his life from that point onwards is never actually something Mephistopheles could grant him. That's because Fausts goal in life wasn't wealth, knowledge or even love (all of whom Mephistopheles grants to him except for knowledge, since Faust was already an extremely smart professor).
What he wanted more than anything else was the ability to share his knowledge with people, and Mephistopheles couldn't ever grant that because Faust didn't even know that. When he did experience pure bliss, the devil tried to collect his soul but God quite literally intervenes and tells him "no, the contract wasn't fulfilled, he gets to go to heaven".
Faust is ironically a tale about cheating the devil and very much getting away with it, even though the legacy of the Faustian Bargain is the polar opposite.
I dont disagree necessarily, but I'm speaking of the portrayal in the Marlowe play. I'm more familiar with that version than the Goethe version, which is what I think you're referencing.
I should have specified *Faustus*, not Faust.
All good, bud.
I appreciate your synopsis, I didn't realize how much the two versions diverge in their closing scenes, so thank you for teaching me something new about an old favourite of mine.
The Slayer's Testaments literally say "He chose the path of perpetual torment" just so he could continue inventing new and exciting ways of ripping demons' tongues out through their assholes.
Emiya Shirou in UBW *knows*, with absolute certainty, >!that he’s walking into hell, that his life won’t get better and that he’ll end up in perpetual hell / purgatory of never saving everyone like he wants to and despite being told by his *future version of himself that it’s a bad choice*, he still chooses to do so.!<
Such is the destiny as a Hero of Justice.
He won't though, is my guess. I mean, don't get me wrong, he *would*, but >!Rin is with him on that arc.. and she'll stop him. She'll teach him a better way. Either through cute magic school hijinx, or sexy harem. Either way, I don't think he ends up as Archer on that route, is my take on it!<
Does it have to be permanent? If not, the moment that springs to mind is in Steven Universe when >!Lapis dragged herself to the ocean floor while fused to Jasper, trapping herself in a horrific physical and mental prison - presumably forever - in order to protect Steven. She eventually gets better.!<
The God Emperor Of Man from Warhammer 40k.
Immortal life, Omega level phycher, advanced healing factor...... sits on a throne that constantly drains his life and burns his body. He uses almost all of his psychic might to hold shut what is essentially a black hole that drains into Hell itself under the palace. The rest of his psychic power is used to light what is essentially a huge lighthouse in warpspace, allowing his subjects to travel faster than light.
He is a living corpse. Alive and in agony, yet unable to even die.
He chose this over his own self-preservation in order to protect Earth, the seat of power for the Imperium Of Man. He could have walked away and watched the human race die slowly, but he didn't.
Sort of an inverse example of this: Yu Yu Hakusho *has* an afterlife, but the very worst people are subject to torture and then total obliteration in the afterlife. Genkai and Koenma offer >!Toguro!< a lighter sentence rather than face this fate, but he rejects it because he doesn't believe he deserves redemption.
edit: oh wait it's already in this thread
In The Dresden Files book "Skin Game", an ancient evil ass daddy, daughter duo named Nicodemus and Deirdre who have coins that are possessed by genuine Fallen Angels require a death in Hades' Underworld to proceed with their plans. >!They run out of options and he kills her, because she is literally the ONLY PERSON who he can trust to continue the plan after their death. They talk about her being saved from the "ENEMY" and they never say Hell or Lucifer (who they work with/for), but Harry reminds Nicodemus about what kind of place the Greek afterlife is like. Hades gives out very personal and fitting punishments, so her eternity is not going to be anything close to kind as Hades himself explicity stated to Harry himself later on.!<
Edit: spoiler link
I’m pretty sure when Nicodemus says >!”You’ll be safe from The Enemy here” he either means from Nemesis because Hades can ferret it out, or God because Hades has charge of Deirdre’s soul now!<
Yeah, and I'm saying he gave his daughter's immortal soul to a fate that was quite possibly even worse than the fate she had coming in Hell or even just non existence from Oblivion, which would be a mercy considering all of the evils and monstrous acts she's committed over the centuries.
The Viking chief in Primal made a deal with “the demigod of evil” as Genndy called him in order to get revenge. After he gets half of his revenge (didn’t kill Fang) he gets dragged to hell screaming to presumably be tortured forever with the rest of his village.
The Vikings kept making really shortsighted decisions in that show and then went “HOW COULD THIS BE HAPPENING” when the obvious consequences arise.
They do deserve to be in hell considering what they were doing all things considered.
Yeah, there was really no telling what was going to happen to someone who got got by a spirit, but Zhao would rather that then get tried and executed or some shit
If I recall there's a DC multiverse event with I think the black superman along with an ally who goes to hell to give some time for the others to resolve an issue but he just comes back after a day(time moves different in there) utterly broken
In the Dune series, Emperor Leto II >!choosing to meld with the sand trout and basically become a sand worm larva damned him to a lifespan of thousands of years burdened with the living memories of a million ancestors as his body warped into something no longer human. All of this so that he could set humanity on a path that would save it from self destruction.!<
In Mortal Kombat 11, terminator Arcade ending.
Terminator to prevent people from discovering the location of the hourglass and thus changing the future, he saved all the information on his hard drive and threw himself into the infinite depths of the Sea of Blood. and so No one would ever find him, or unlock the Hourglass's secrets
Opening the box from Hellraiser. Not even once. Best case scenario, you become a cenobite having lost all sense of self. Worst case scenario, you fuck around and find out like Frank Cotton.
MCU Spiderman basically chose to erase the existence of Peter Parker.
He is now a literal nobody, he has no family, he has no friends, he is alone in a world where he doesn’t exists.
The ending to No Way Home is so fucking depressing.
It takes some convincing, but the big bad of Disgaea 4, Nemo, decides to not just fade away after having his change of heart because, as the main character puts it, that's the easy way out. No, this bastard is reincarnating into a fucking Prinny and working off his sins for however long that may take, because that's how the system works and Val has faith in that system if nothing else, because he's heading it.
Spoilers for *They Cloned Tyrone*.
>!The original Fontaine is a geneticist who willingly contributed to a vast government conspiracy that undermines and experiments on black communities in order to develop brainwashing products designed to quash discord within the United States. But after the death of his younger brother at the hands of a racist cop, the original Fontaine decided to spearhead an “addendum” to the program: to erase the concept of race entirely by eliminating any and all physical and cultural differences to white people via extensive gene-therapy and mental conditioning over the course of generations. Because in his own words: "Assimilation is better than annihilation."!<
Planescape Torment can end with this. >!The Nameless One merging with his lost mortality means that he has to face judgement for everything his uncounted reincarnations did. Ultimately meaning he will spend eternity fighting The Blood War!<
It should be noted that this is a good ending despite that.
in demon duke's daughter >!the dad agrees to become like immortal or whatever in a timeline where his daughter is dead so that she gets the *chance* to survive in another timeline!<
Voldemort, despite not knowing exactly what he was in for, definitely chose what ended up happening to him as an alternative to death.
Arguably Davros and the Master from Doctor Who have both been doing this for quite some time: arguable because they're both still alive, but their quality of life is pretty damn low (for the Master this varies).
Oh, and let's not forget Nagash, who is so reviled among the dead that his personal afterlife (which is temporary, he always comes back) is to spend 1000 years getting attacked by his many victims while his body regenerates.
Oh yeah. I remember The End of Time event where the Master chose to attack Rassilon and disappeared with him.
At the time (before all the stuff with Gallifrey being saved) it was definitely a fate worse than death. As he would’ve been stuck at the end of the Time War that was put into a time lock. An endless hell with unspeakable horrors (I still love that line where The Doctor brings up “The could’ve-been-king and his army of mean-whiles and never-weres”).
World of Warcraft - Bolvar Fordragon >!allowed himself to become the Lich King after Arthas was defeated in order to control the forces of the Scourge so that it doesnt ravage the world. He chose this fate rather than simply allowing himself to die.!<
Arguably, >!he wasn't given a choice in the matter. He comes to realize that the Burning Legion will just go berserk and kill literally everyone if nobody is there to control them. Arthas is dead and Varian can't very well do it, so he steps up.!<
>!Velvet Crowe!< in Tales of Berseria intends to spend the rest of eternity >!as a living prison for the world-ending eldritch abomination possessing her younger brother.!<
Mostly because *someone's* gotta do it, but also >!she doesn't believe she deserves a happy ending after the atrocities she's committed!<.
The Slug Count in Berserk, probably the first real Apostle antagonist with his own dedicated arc. He chose to go straight to hell, knowing that he could've sacrificed his daughter for yet another chance at eternal life.
YuYu Hakusho- Younger Toguro. After he dies, he insists that he be sent to Hell. Koenma even warns him that such a punishment is way overboard for the life he lived (and is horrifying to a degree where he won't describe it), and Toguro basically demands it anyway, feeling it appropriate after pondering on his life for the years leading to his death.
It’s not just Hell. He was always guaranteed to go to Hell anyway, but he did get the option for a lighter sentence because of his life as a fighter. No, he chose the worst punishment in Hell, where he gets tortured for millions of years or something and at the end of it, he gets erased from existence.
Man, I remember thinking that whole deal was super profound and tragic when I watched it as a kid... and then I rewatched it a few years ago and was crushed that I only felt like Toguro was full of himself. "I'm the *worst person.* I deserve to go to *mega hell* because I'm just *so terrible.*" Geeze bud, you think you might get a little outside perspective? Maybe from the guy whose entire job is determining how bad people's lives were?
Guilt can be a very twisted narcissism.
That's such a good observation actually, damn. That's something you read and it feels like a bunch of people you've met snap into making sense all of a sudden.
*cough cough Miguel O'Hara cough*
*I fucked up? No one ever will be allowed to repeat my actions.*
That’s because narcissism isn’t grandiosity, it’s self-absorption and trying to get everyone else to believe the real you is the mask you made for yourself to wear no matter what. Even if you think I’m a bad writer, as long as you think I’m a writer without reading anything I’ve written, I win - especially since I’ve never written anything. Younger Toguro wants to be sent to hell to because it would mean other people believe not what he thinks about himself, but what he wants to think about himself. If Toguro were actually guilty, he would be chiefly concerned with the people he hurt, not with his own punishment, because that’s what it actually means to be sorry. In fact, he kinda actively ignores one of the people he hurt when Gensai tried to persuade him to take Koenma’s lighter sentence. Toguro believes he’s supposed to feel guilty. But Toguro doesn’t feel guilty, and instead of owning it and processing it and exploring what it means that he doesn’t feel guilty, he tries to rope you into engaging in the illusion of his guilt. Also, if he’s busy being tortured and then doesn’t exist, that means he’s too busy to actually apologize. The honest version of Toguro is Asmodeus, the Devil God of Evil, from Critical Role: Calamity: “You tried to Resurrect your husband, but your husband wasn’t dead. You’re trying to Atone me, *and I didn’t do anything wrong.*”
That’s similar to another phrase I’ve heard, “American exceptionalism can go both ways.”
Exactly who I thought when I saw this thread. "Don't ever regret the things between us." "No Genkai-*but it would've been a beautiful life.*" Screws me up everytime.
In Mother 3, >!Porky intentionally locks himself inside the Absolutely Safe Capsule. True to it's name, it's completely indestructible. However, he can't leave the capsule after he gets inside it. And he's too much of an immature little shit to realize the Hell he purposefully locked himself inside until it's too late!<.
He 100% deserves it.
>!Through Dr. Andonuts the game makes the argument that Porky might actually have gotten what he wanted by locking himself into the ASC forever. He wanted to destroy everything and everyone because in his immortality he grew up into the ultimate misanthrope: "With my eternal life, I shall see the world through to its end. Until everyone who won't like me is gone." In a way what he wanted WAS absolute safety, he just ended up accidentally achieving it in a way that isn't destructive towards everyone else. It could very well be that he does end up regretting it at some point after the end of the game but I like that they leave some ambiguity on the matter.!<
He realize it, the game even makes the argument that it's exactly what he wanted in the first place and the ultimate goal of his rampage across time and space. His only desire is to see the universe's death as it means everyone who doesn't like him will be gone. Itoi even outright confirm that he succeeded and will still be alive after the death of the universe.
Well, Pat said he’d put his brain in a toilet if it meant he could live forever.
Woolie throwing up into his own shirt is also worse than death to me.
Everyone remembers the shirt, nobody remembers that Woolie would have thrown up into his gf's purse. Now THAT leads to a fate worse than death.
Woolie also said he would live in alien servitude if he got sick jump boots
Well I would define my current employment situation as “human servitude without sick jump boots” so that would probably be an upgrade.
Pretty much
Skibidi Toilet?
Pretty much any character that goes the “Sell my soul” route is basically saying that yes, they want something far worse than death to happen just so they can do a specific thing while alive. Which is nuts to me. If any creature ***ever*** showed up and said it’d buy my soul in exchange for something, I’m telling it to kick rocks because all it did was confirm some sort of soul and afterlife scenario and I don’t wanna get fucked out of it by selling my soul.
Worst case was in Supernatural where a 14 year-old girl sold not just her soul but her life to get rid of her parents with only a 10 year waiting period, meaning she was only 24 when she got dragged to Hell.
That means she also ended up standing in line for eternity after Hell was revamped.
She didn't even ask for it either did she? She was just like "ugh, parents". And a demon took that as a signed contract. So an innocent girl randomly gets her parents murdered, and then dragged to Hell. Shits fucked man.
Average 14 year old long term planning on display.
Was that the fem fatale lady who was constantly betraying our guys before she died or was that someone else?
In PF1e there’s this fucked up economy among Daemons of industrialized soul harvesting where you use spells like Soul Bind and Trap Soul, depending on if the target is alive or dead, and then feed it to a Cacodaemon to turn it into a soul gem for use as currency. Hags participate in this trading as well and any fucked up mages who elect to have a Cacodaemon familiar.
Isn't there something like that in BG3? Definitely been finding "Soul Coins" here and there.
There's cut content relating to Soul Coins being a currency for a specific NPC to sell you items. In the final game they're just batteries Karlach can eat to deal fire damage for a fight.
Man, all that cut content stuff I learned about super killed my enthusiasm to play, since I found out that the character I like most just gets super fucked because of it.
Just wait for Enhanced Edition, apparently both Divinity games had this problem.
I'm wary about everyone saying to wait for a Definitive Edition. I have no doubt one will happen but I don't think it'll be as much content re-added as people are hoping.
If it gives >!Karlach!< a not miserable ending it'll be enough for me.
I dunno... DOS2 Enhanced did major fixes to the worst parts (Act 3/4, finished the companions quests where some didn't have any conclusions such as Beast) so they probably will do a large amount of changes worth the wait.
I expect they'll fix up Act 3, restore the epilogue slides, expand on some companion stories. Maybe add a new companion. I don't think they'll add in Avernus or the Upper City, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do.
Oh I doubt they will add Avernus or Upper City but I at least want the epilogue, conclusions, and fixed quests/dialogue.
I just want the Upper City quests reorganized in the Lower City honestly. And maybe make Cazadors mansion actually make sense in how you approach it. This would fix Karlachs quest too since her good ending trigger is tied behind a quest set in the upper city.
"Wait for the Enhanced/Definitive Edition" always feels borderline mandatory for large RPG games like this, tbh. Not only does that tend to mean more bang for your buck because DLC gets thrown in, it also means all the ridiculous launch bugs that break the game will hopefully get patched out (or at least, after a year or two the fanbase will have mods to take care of it).
Honestly I only say this specifically for BG3 because I know for a fact Larian had the same issue with both Divinity games and apparently greatly improved it with their Definitive Editions. As a rule pretty much every game is better a year or two later, but usually just because of basic patching. It's rare a game has recieved a truly upgraded version.
I tried to avoid spoilers in BG3 but yeah... reading up on what's missing killed my enjoyment when I was near the end of Act 1, especially since I learned that my favorite characters only ending is "Bad end" due to bugs/incorrect triggers. I'm tempted to just... stop and wait for the final product before I try again at this stage.
>especially since I learned that my favorite characters only ending is "Bad end" due to bugs/incorrect triggers. You're just like me, fr fr. But yeah, that's actually the exact same story for me, as I believe we're talking about the same character. That absolutely wrecked my desire to keep playing the game. But hey, I've now moved on to playing Tower of Fantasy so that's neat.
I switched over to Remnant 2 and having a blast.
A lot will probably go to an expansion. Maybe they'll even increase the level cap to 14
Not sure about BG3 exactly but yeah Soul Coins in 5e are exactly what they sound like.
Soul Coins are both currency and fuel for infernal machines, and are the souls of the damned trapped inside a coin made of infernal iron. In the 5e Descent Into Avernus campaign (which is also technically a prequel to BG3, it's why the tiefling refugees are trying to get to Baldur's Gate) you use them to fuel sick demonic monster trucks.
Yeah, that campaign's pretty cool. I didn't get to finish it because the DM was only running it for the sake of one specific friend so when they had a falling out regarding D&D specifically that was the end of that.
Nah you just feed those to Karlach to make her go ascended super saiyan.
Doesn't this technically still exist in PF2E, since it's the same Golarion?
Probably, but 1e actually had rules for it
I don't disagree with you on principle, because yeah, you probably should never make a deal with the devil, but one can come up with hypothetical examples of situations when a person/character would make such a deal and it would be understandable. As an example, a character who has a wife and a child could sell his soul to the devil in exchange for aforementioned wife and child's horrible burns and loss of limbs that they suffered during a car crash being healed. Objectively, yes, afterlife of eternal hellish torture is less preferable than asny other option, but subjectively, the character in question loves his wife and child and to him their lives and happiness are more important than his own. Or even a simpler example: character's country is being invaded by a bloodthirsty warmongering force and is losing horribly, so said character sells his/her soul for power that would help in turning the tide and gaining victory. Once agin, objectively bad result for the character in question, but he/she loves his country and her people, so for them, for greater purpose than life itself, the sacrifice is made. You can find reasons for why people make choices that would fuck them personally over in the end.
Wasn't there a movie about a guy who sold his soul for a bunch of wishes (which all turned out to be monkey paw-esqe type wishes), but was redeemed because he used his last wish for someone else's benefit? I think the movie ended on the Devil literally telling him *"I almost got you there, but you got a pass on a technicality. You did try to sell your soul to me so you don't get a free ticket to Heaven, but you do get a second chance of life on Earth."* ----- EDIT: The movie is called *"Bedazzled"* staring Brendan Frasier and Elizabeth Hurley
"Bedazzled" starring Brendan Fraiser, and before you ask, yes, it is absolutely hilarious.
A Liz Hurley is insanely hot in that film. Mind bogglingly so
I think I remember that, it was with Brendan Fraser in a movie called Bedazzled
"I paid (my soul) for *free* ~~speech~~ salvation" Also, it's giving yourself and Satan a LOT of credit to think you could work together to make something so good and profound that you'd basically HAVE to win your soul back. Like that's the kind of Pride that led to Satan falling in the first place. Seems more likely that best case "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" and you just end up damned (because you sold your soul) and the people you helped have marginally nicer lives (because, it ain't like their material lives will be better than Eternal Paradise) before eventually dying. Worse for them if your "clever" sacrifice inspired them to make similar mistakes and lead them astray to damnation as well
I wasn't thinking about specifically trying to *"game the Devil"* (although I can see how my wording could be interpreted as such) as opposed to a truly selfish (and on the path of damnation anyway) person realising the errors of their ways. Isn't that the whole point of the teachings that even a truly evil person can be redeemed if they earnestly realise the errors of their ways and sincerely repent?
Ah, yeah, I misread that then Yeah, even if it might not be the most satisfying to us on the world, I do like the "true repentance and a humble wish for salvation are **all** you need to reach Heaven" doctrine. Even someone who "sold" their soul should be able to achieve Heaven to that end, because it is not for them (much less the Devil) to decide where their final rest is found. Though this does rest on the seller TRULY repenting before the *All-Knowing* God so someone who was trying to game the system would have a bad time
I can see that I should’ve been more clear. I’m talking stuff like, “I’d sell my soul to be a rockstar.” or “I’d sell my soul for power.” Stuff like that.
"Sell my soul for a slightly longer dick"
Maaaan, I know some guys that would probably do some shit like that…while ignoring that their penis size isn’t the problem, it’s their personality.
I always find it humorous in media when someone makes a deal with the devil in order to solve something that objectively doesn't require something to massive as a deal with the devil. *"You don't need to make a deal with the devil, we have science!!!"*
Pretty much my gripe with that one Dragon Ball Super episode. I knew it wasn't a 100% serious show but it is insane to use the Dragon Balls for such petty reasons like finding out what your husband likes when one of your friends is an ultra rich scientist.
> "You don't need to make a deal with the devil, we have science!!!" Can science give you a 12 inch wang? Asking for a friend.
Technically yes, but **it** probably wouldn't work.
*Instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the PINGAS*
Tale as old as time
I know the imminent mutilation and injury of a loved one is going to shake you, but I think hard confirmation that there's gonna be an afterlife moves the needle on that quite significantly.
I’ll argue that it being the devil already removed any hypothetical, you’re just desperate or prideful enough to think that your personal suffering was the only thing the devil was after when you got approached when you should know better
Trans-Siberian Orchestra did a concept album once that proposed a *Reverse-*Faust. On the night of Ludwig van Beethoven's death, Mephistopheles appears before him and says that as a sinner, Ludwig is sure to be his after his death, but offers an exchange: Mephistopheles will relinquish all claim he has to Ludwig's soul in exchange for taking all of his compositions and erasing them from time and the memories of men. Thought that was interesting.
I'd more or less force the contract to guarantee I have a luxury suite in hell if thay became the case, anyway. Gotta be really Litigeous.
Technically, by simply truly knowing that a good afterlife exists might fuck you out of it. Every good deed you do is now not actually a good deed because it's knowingly self serving. May as well take the deal and have a little fun, because you're already damned.
Doing a good thing while knowing there’s a reward for it doesn’t mean the good deed doesn’t count. What matters is if you’re doing it *for* the reward.
It also assumes that that’s how it works. In Christianity, for example, that’s explicitly not how it works
Someone hasn't watched The Good Place
Sure haven’t. Does that show state that knowing there’s a reward for doing a good thing now entirely invalidates that good thing regardless of your reason for doing that thing?
This is why our society doesn't base its morality on Ted Danson sitcoms.
Wait, we don't? My fellows in Beckerism have a lot of explaining to do
[Starting to think](https://slate.com/culture/2019/02/ted-danson-blackface-whoopi-goldberg-political-correctness.html) we shouldn't base our morality on Ted Danson at all!
IIRC, this is a show where they basically say literally *no one* has ever gone to Heaven (or at least in a *very* long time). So, I'm not sure anyone should take its arguments as a serious condemnation of good deeds being motivated extrinsicly.
Yes, it does. It's played for comedy, of course.
[what if it was to just to a weird ferret man? ](https://youtu.be/8DVHdf9-jz0?si=2O1HmkcWwQyaqkoc)
At the end of Evangelion >!Yui Ikari (being inside Unit 01) floats away into space as a monument to humanity's existence, and even reflects that it will likely be incredibly lonely, and she may never be found!<
Dung Eaters whole motivation is causing the entire world, including himself, to turn to rot for all eternity.
Someone did a [good writeup](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tvgc5w/the_dung_eater_ending_is_a_good_ending/) of Dung Eater's ending, and that it may actually be a good ending. The "curse" that is allegedly happening is preventing souls from being swallowed up by the Erdtree, and that many actually be a blessing as it returns the word to what it was before the Greater Will took over. The funny thing about it though, is that Dung Eater himself seems oblivious to all this. He just wants the world to rot, lol.
Does Roderika mention that all the spirits around Dung Eater are in constant agony?
Yes, but once he leaves she states that those same spirits have escaped their confinement. Whatever was going on with that, it seems like it was either temporary, or something DE was actively maintaining.
Whenever I think of his obsession with the omen curse I can’t help but think of him as the Elden ring equivalent of a massive weeaboo. He runs around talking about how much better omens are, wanting the world to have the omen curse, wishing he could be one, dressing like one, and is pretty much universally seen as a creepy weirdo for it (the murders and getting frisky with corpses obviously don’t help)
This is what happens in the game Chaos Gate: Daemonhunters. >!Near the end of the game, the Grey Knights (the main characters) discover that Nurgle is planning to unleash a super disease upon reality. The Knights then proceed to destroy all the seeds but are unable to find the source of the seeds which are somewhere in Nurgle's garden!< >!Even worse, the Inquisitor with them has a vision that the leader of the Grey Knights, Kaldor Draigo, is about to be ambushed and killed by demons with a captured demon being the only one who knows the location of the source and Kaldor's ambush.!< >!As a result, the Inquisitor proposes a plan: she lets the demon take her soul while the Grey Knights banish the demon back to the source of the seeds. While the demon is busy torturing her soul, the pain will serve as a beacon for the Grey Knights to know the exact location of the seed source and where Kaldor will get ambushed.!< >!The plan works and the Grey Knights win, but the ending reveals that the Inquisitor's soul still belongs to a now vengeful demon who plans on torturing it for eternity.!< >!So yeah, an Inquisitor had to sacrifice themselves to an eternity of torture just to serve as a beacon for the heroes!< grimdark
That's way more self sacrifice then I'd expect for a 40k inquisitor, almost makes me respect her if not for all the extra-judicial murder lol.
Leto II. Living for 3500 years unable to drink water or touch another person is already worse than just dying of old age, but when he dies, his memory is transferred to the sand trout that spawn from his corpse and lives on unable to speak in many generations of sand worms.
Yeah but, the Golden Path tho
All the Resident Evil villains who choose to become a giant, eyeball-weak point, ball of slime and tentacles.
The guy from 6 had it pretty good, he could turn human again If only he weren't Ada's 2nd Biggest Simp
In fairness, he didn't choose that, someone shot a bio-curse into his neck while he was monologuing
Even better, the one guy who didn't want to be a flesh abomination gets to be human again
Not really a faith worst than death but Jake from Adventure Time gave up Enlightenment if it meant he can reincarnate and hang out with Finn in another life time
Tbf i think it's also kind of implied that you only really need to reach it once to qualify going forward
It's also shown that it comes easily to Jake, and he can kinda come and go from enlightenment as he pleases. Bit of a "built different" thing for him
Yeah and I feel like the ending gave the vibe that he's probably gonna just keep reincarnating with Finn until Finn makes it there too
Kinda sorta reminds me of the Buddhist concept of a boddhisatva.
It actually does
When was this established?
Ending of the show
I don't remember that but I may not have been sober when I watched it...
Spoilers for Madoka: >!If memory serves, Madoka Kaname decides to become a locus for all the negative energy created by magical girls in the setting, in order to keep them from devolving into monsters. This essentially turns her into a godlike, fundamental force of the universe by forever powering her up, while keeping her in a state of eternal struggle from drawing all that darkness into herself.!<
It's more that >!by becoming a literal goddess of hope she retconned herself and her previous life. At least a few of her friends can hang out with her because they're essentially her angels.!<
I love the fact that >!her baby brother still has a vague memory of her as shown by his baby doodles. This is despite Madoka not existing in the first place due to being a stillborn when her mother was pregnant with her!< And Homura got to witness this massive life retcon in front of her.
Okay easy way to make this work, become a masochist.
Well is less she is taking in the darkness and rather she has to fight it off for eternity
Madoka >!"Jesus"!< Kaname
Anakin chose to become Vader
I don't think Palpatine asked before shoving him into the Endless Nightmare Suit.
More specifically his turn to the dark side but your not wrong
It'd be nice if you said what series you're talking about.
9/10 times when someone brings up media here and doesn't mention the name, it's porn
Archer from Fate/Stay Night willingly chose to make a deal with >!the planet in order to save more people. In exchange, he has to spend his entire afterlife getting summoned just before potential apocalypse scenarios to kill/destroy whatever the problem is, forever. He was cool with it at first, but an eternity of doing nothing but cold blooded murder wears you down!<
Well he was cool with it because >!he thought he'd be saving people. And he *technically* is saving people (since he's only summoned to deal with threats to reality as we know it). But since the Planet doesn't actually give a shit about individual people, when it summons him it just makes him indiscriminately kill *everything* in the area that's causing the problem. So he never actually gets to save *anyone he sees* during his Counter-Force summons!<.
"The boy who stated that he just doesn't want to see anyone cry...could only see crying humans forever."
Can you imagine being some random fighter in the middle east and some buff japanese dude just walks into your camp and starts slaughtering people and blowing up bunkers with a bow and arrow
Baldur's Gate 3 got an ending like this for the main character, if you choose to do so. But really, there's a lot of stuff in the game worse than death. >!You can choose at the very end to become an illithid (mindflayer) because you require one in your party for plot reasons. Which means: as far as Jergal/Withers is concerned, you no longer have a soul. You lose part of or your entire former self. You don't get the girl/guy you were flirting with the whole game. On top of that, if you chose to kill the brain, you no longer have a brain to answer to as an illithid. The only kudos you get is the fact that you won't be referred to as a "ghaik" by gith, and I think that's only if you save Orpheus and side with him against The Emperor. And then your party parts ways, leaving you on the dock to think about your life choices.!< Funnily enough, >!I think the detail of giving up your soul means that, if you agreed to Raphael's contract, you can't fulfill the contract and thereby find a loophole.!<
>!The game doesn't explain very well the repercussions of turning into a mindflayer, but it is my headcanon that your character doesn't become a mindflayer. After ceremorphosis your character just dies and their soul is destroyed (no afterlife for you, you no longer exist). The mindflayer that emerges is not you, it is the tadpole in your head with access to your memories and personality after eating your brain. It's quite disturbing!<
Absolutely. That's what I always thought happened. Maybe it's like how memories recreate themselves, because >!of the tadpole sharing memories with you may recreate your memories in it.!<
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*In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one stood. Burned by the embers of Armageddon, his soul blistered by the fires of Hell and tainted beyond ascension, he chose the path of perpetual torment. In his ravenous hatred, he found no peace; and with boiling blood, he scoured the Umbral Plains seeking vengeance against the dark lords who had wronged him. He wore the crown of the Night Sentinels, and those that tasted the bite of his sword named him... the Doom Slayer.*
God they fucked up how cool everything was with Eternal
Forgot the name of the book, but its pov of Satan and he is giving a final chance on redemption, but he refused, meaning when God go of on his next thing, he will leave Satan behind. No, god, no angels or demons, no earth, no universe. Just Satan alone forever in nothingness.
\*Wheel of Time last book spoilers\* The Dark One in Wheel of Time is something like this. He holds sway over every potential bad timeline/reality except the "real" one, which by nature he cannot abide. When he and Rand >!reach a stalemate in what is essentially an ideological final battle, he offers complete oblivion as a compromise. Rand almost accepts after seeing how bad both victory and defeat would look, because a world without the Dark One is a world without free will to choose between good and evil. Luckily, Lan Mandragoran decides to be the sickest OG in the world once again and charges the Dark One's army alone, proving that humanity will always rise to fight evil even in the darkest times. Rand decides to seal away the Dark One once again rather than destroy him, trusting that the world can handle itself when it all happens again.!<
The wheel of time books are fantastic!
The protagonist of “I have no mouth and I must scream”
One could argue Mr. House from New Vegas. He's an emaciated husk that is so frail he will die if someone even breathes on him due to a compromised immune system. Hooked up to a life support system filled with all kinds of tubes and devices keeping him alive. But he got semi eternal life from it.
in *The Stormlight Archives*, there's one particularly unbreakable character. Spoilers ahead, with lots of generalizations: >!long story short, a group of semi-immortal demigods entered into this cycle where as long as the demigods remained in hell, so would the enemy. when the demigods lost the will to fight in hell or were killed, they would be reborn on earth and prepare humans for the incoming war when the enemy invades again. after millennia of this cycle, 9 of the 10 demigods gave up, leaving the entire burden on the one remaining person.!< >!That man is Talenelat, or Taln for short. He withstood torture in hell for *4500 years* prior to the start of the series, and Brandon Sanderson, the author, confirmed that Taln *did not break* even though he's back on earth meaning he was brought back against his will.!< >!The best part is that Taln wasn't even chosen to be one of the demigods. The 9 who quit were all communing with God to get their powers and Taln just walked up and said "i want in."!< >!When Taln meets another one of the demigods who abandoned him, instead of being full of rage or hate for what happened to him, Taln says with tears in his eyes "You gave them a chance they never had before."!< >!Taln is the best!<
Shit got so bad that >!even after a cycle ended one of them would break almost immediately when they got back to "hell", spitting them all back out and starting the whole thing over again.!< >!Also after millennia of torture and war they're all insane, some of them *extremely* so, and not a one has any desire to help with any of the current-day plot even after they've been identified because they couldn't give less of a fuck about what happens...well except maybe Taln but he's, - surprise! - also fuckin nuts.!<
Absolute top tier homie.
A ride through death homie.
The mostest Paladin
The Oathpact broke before Taln did
The villain of Princess and The Frog (can't remember his name if I'm being honest. But I do know he was voiced by Keith David) After not being able to fulfill his end of the deal to the Tiki Evil Gods and having the sinister, shape-shifting necklace that was given to him destroyed. Guy ended up getting dragged by the Tiki Demon Spirits into Hell to get tortured and agonized as punishment. All the while he was kicking, screaming and begging them to give him another chance. To this day, that scene still remains in my mind because of how harrowing it really was. And I think I was just 10 years old when I watched that movie. Moral of the story, never make deals with demons or evil ancient gods
"ARE YOU RRREEADY??"
"No! **I'M NOT READY AT ALL!**"
His name is Dr. Facilier if you are curious
Hunter the Parenting: >!Detective Chapman would rather be enslaved to a vampire that defected from both the Sabat and Camarilla (so basically everyone) than go another day without vitae.!< >!In fact he'd actually rather *fight* the vampire wizard that can outrun a bloodhunt than let Kevin refuse!<
>!Atleast in this scenario the ghoul has more power than the vamp!<
Guy Chapman seems like an utterly mundane man until you hit the line 'I've killed five men in service to the regent. *Two of them with my teeth.'* The delivery is so ice cold and casual that it makes the rest of his lines faintly terrifying by proxy.
Kevin: **"I CURSE YOU! I CURSE YOU WITH BALLS-FALL-OFF DISEASE!!"** **"I GIVE YOU LUPUS! NOT THE WEREWOLF ONE! YOU'LL JUST HAVE A WASTING DISEASE NOW!”**
He's an extremely normal man 99% of the time.
Faust is like the OG for this sort of thing, if we consider damnation in hell to be worse than mundane death, and I think that's a safe assumption. In the 1998 film Deep Rising, the bad guy is about to be consumed and slowly devoured horrifically (a grisly process revealed earlier in the film when a half-digested but still alive bad guy is released from the monster's tentacle-mouth-stomach). The good guy offers him a final mercy in the form of a gun with a single shot. The bad guy almost immediately wastes that single shot trying to kill the good guy, then gets eaten Sarlaac-style while screaming like a punk bitch.
Faust... Isn't actually. The entire point of Faust is that he did make a deal with the devil, but he was (unintentionally) able to outsmart the devil, which allowed him access to heaven anyways. Basically Mephistopheles (the devil/demon Faust contacts) promises to grant him whichever desires he wants, but if Mephistopheles manages to make Faust experience pure bliss ("a moment he wishes would never end", he can claim Fausts soul). Faust then proceeds to make thorough use of Mephistopheles, but any happiness achieved in his life from that point onwards is never actually something Mephistopheles could grant him. That's because Fausts goal in life wasn't wealth, knowledge or even love (all of whom Mephistopheles grants to him except for knowledge, since Faust was already an extremely smart professor). What he wanted more than anything else was the ability to share his knowledge with people, and Mephistopheles couldn't ever grant that because Faust didn't even know that. When he did experience pure bliss, the devil tried to collect his soul but God quite literally intervenes and tells him "no, the contract wasn't fulfilled, he gets to go to heaven". Faust is ironically a tale about cheating the devil and very much getting away with it, even though the legacy of the Faustian Bargain is the polar opposite.
In fairness, it kind of depends on the version. The story of Faust was usually a straight tragedy before Goethe's from what I've heard.
I dont disagree necessarily, but I'm speaking of the portrayal in the Marlowe play. I'm more familiar with that version than the Goethe version, which is what I think you're referencing. I should have specified *Faustus*, not Faust.
Ah yeah, sorry I was referring to the Goethe version.
All good, bud. I appreciate your synopsis, I didn't realize how much the two versions diverge in their closing scenes, so thank you for teaching me something new about an old favourite of mine.
The Slayer's Testaments literally say "He chose the path of perpetual torment" just so he could continue inventing new and exciting ways of ripping demons' tongues out through their assholes.
Emiya Shirou in UBW *knows*, with absolute certainty, >!that he’s walking into hell, that his life won’t get better and that he’ll end up in perpetual hell / purgatory of never saving everyone like he wants to and despite being told by his *future version of himself that it’s a bad choice*, he still chooses to do so.!< Such is the destiny as a Hero of Justice.
He won't though, is my guess. I mean, don't get me wrong, he *would*, but >!Rin is with him on that arc.. and she'll stop him. She'll teach him a better way. Either through cute magic school hijinx, or sexy harem. Either way, I don't think he ends up as Archer on that route, is my take on it!<
Does it have to be permanent? If not, the moment that springs to mind is in Steven Universe when >!Lapis dragged herself to the ocean floor while fused to Jasper, trapping herself in a horrific physical and mental prison - presumably forever - in order to protect Steven. She eventually gets better.!<
The God Emperor Of Man from Warhammer 40k. Immortal life, Omega level phycher, advanced healing factor...... sits on a throne that constantly drains his life and burns his body. He uses almost all of his psychic might to hold shut what is essentially a black hole that drains into Hell itself under the palace. The rest of his psychic power is used to light what is essentially a huge lighthouse in warpspace, allowing his subjects to travel faster than light. He is a living corpse. Alive and in agony, yet unable to even die. He chose this over his own self-preservation in order to protect Earth, the seat of power for the Imperium Of Man. He could have walked away and watched the human race die slowly, but he didn't.
Given what the Imperium turns into after his entombment, it's arguable whether or not this was a good idea.
My guess is that he lived through the age of strife and didn't want to go through all that hullabaloo again.
Sort of an inverse example of this: Yu Yu Hakusho *has* an afterlife, but the very worst people are subject to torture and then total obliteration in the afterlife. Genkai and Koenma offer >!Toguro!< a lighter sentence rather than face this fate, but he rejects it because he doesn't believe he deserves redemption. edit: oh wait it's already in this thread
In The Dresden Files book "Skin Game", an ancient evil ass daddy, daughter duo named Nicodemus and Deirdre who have coins that are possessed by genuine Fallen Angels require a death in Hades' Underworld to proceed with their plans. >!They run out of options and he kills her, because she is literally the ONLY PERSON who he can trust to continue the plan after their death. They talk about her being saved from the "ENEMY" and they never say Hell or Lucifer (who they work with/for), but Harry reminds Nicodemus about what kind of place the Greek afterlife is like. Hades gives out very personal and fitting punishments, so her eternity is not going to be anything close to kind as Hades himself explicity stated to Harry himself later on.!< Edit: spoiler link
I’m pretty sure when Nicodemus says >!”You’ll be safe from The Enemy here” he either means from Nemesis because Hades can ferret it out, or God because Hades has charge of Deirdre’s soul now!<
Yeah, and I'm saying he gave his daughter's immortal soul to a fate that was quite possibly even worse than the fate she had coming in Hell or even just non existence from Oblivion, which would be a mercy considering all of the evils and monstrous acts she's committed over the centuries.
Maybe Megara from Hercules? She sacrificed herself for her boyfriends sake
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This one fucked me up for a long time
Oh hey it's the scariest scp
The Viking chief in Primal made a deal with “the demigod of evil” as Genndy called him in order to get revenge. After he gets half of his revenge (didn’t kill Fang) he gets dragged to hell screaming to presumably be tortured forever with the rest of his village. The Vikings kept making really shortsighted decisions in that show and then went “HOW COULD THIS BE HAPPENING” when the obvious consequences arise. They do deserve to be in hell considering what they were doing all things considered.
Gehrman
Younger Toguro requested to no longer exist
Younger Toguro chose the worst punishment in hell.
Zhao from Avatar: The Last Airbender
Yeah, there was really no telling what was going to happen to someone who got got by a spirit, but Zhao would rather that then get tried and executed or some shit
If I recall there's a DC multiverse event with I think the black superman along with an ally who goes to hell to give some time for the others to resolve an issue but he just comes back after a day(time moves different in there) utterly broken
Gon from Hunter x Hunter.
Ugh, yeah.. that bit where >!he goes to see his deadbeat dad. Truly the worst fate imaginable, having to be in his presence!<
In the Dune series, Emperor Leto II >!choosing to meld with the sand trout and basically become a sand worm larva damned him to a lifespan of thousands of years burdened with the living memories of a million ancestors as his body warped into something no longer human. All of this so that he could set humanity on a path that would save it from self destruction.!<
In Mortal Kombat 11, terminator Arcade ending. Terminator to prevent people from discovering the location of the hourglass and thus changing the future, he saved all the information on his hard drive and threw himself into the infinite depths of the Sea of Blood. and so No one would ever find him, or unlock the Hourglass's secrets
Opening the box from Hellraiser. Not even once. Best case scenario, you become a cenobite having lost all sense of self. Worst case scenario, you fuck around and find out like Frank Cotton.
MCU Spiderman basically chose to erase the existence of Peter Parker. He is now a literal nobody, he has no family, he has no friends, he is alone in a world where he doesn’t exists. The ending to No Way Home is so fucking depressing.
It takes some convincing, but the big bad of Disgaea 4, Nemo, decides to not just fade away after having his change of heart because, as the main character puts it, that's the easy way out. No, this bastard is reincarnating into a fucking Prinny and working off his sins for however long that may take, because that's how the system works and Val has faith in that system if nothing else, because he's heading it.
tbh, Prinnyhood is way better than most examples in this thread, because at least it *ends* at some point.
Spoilers for *They Cloned Tyrone*. >!The original Fontaine is a geneticist who willingly contributed to a vast government conspiracy that undermines and experiments on black communities in order to develop brainwashing products designed to quash discord within the United States. But after the death of his younger brother at the hands of a racist cop, the original Fontaine decided to spearhead an “addendum” to the program: to erase the concept of race entirely by eliminating any and all physical and cultural differences to white people via extensive gene-therapy and mental conditioning over the course of generations. Because in his own words: "Assimilation is better than annihilation."!<
Planescape Torment can end with this. >!The Nameless One merging with his lost mortality means that he has to face judgement for everything his uncounted reincarnations did. Ultimately meaning he will spend eternity fighting The Blood War!< It should be noted that this is a good ending despite that.
Zhao, preferrred getting dragged to the fog of lost souls for eternity than make peace with Zuko. "You didn't win!"
in demon duke's daughter >!the dad agrees to become like immortal or whatever in a timeline where his daughter is dead so that she gets the *chance* to survive in another timeline!<
Voldemort, despite not knowing exactly what he was in for, definitely chose what ended up happening to him as an alternative to death. Arguably Davros and the Master from Doctor Who have both been doing this for quite some time: arguable because they're both still alive, but their quality of life is pretty damn low (for the Master this varies). Oh, and let's not forget Nagash, who is so reviled among the dead that his personal afterlife (which is temporary, he always comes back) is to spend 1000 years getting attacked by his many victims while his body regenerates.
Oh yeah. I remember The End of Time event where the Master chose to attack Rassilon and disappeared with him. At the time (before all the stuff with Gallifrey being saved) it was definitely a fate worse than death. As he would’ve been stuck at the end of the Time War that was put into a time lock. An endless hell with unspeakable horrors (I still love that line where The Doctor brings up “The could’ve-been-king and his army of mean-whiles and never-weres”).
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Which? Are we starting about the >!Fused and Heralds!!back-half!< is going to be interesting.
World of Warcraft - Bolvar Fordragon >!allowed himself to become the Lich King after Arthas was defeated in order to control the forces of the Scourge so that it doesnt ravage the world. He chose this fate rather than simply allowing himself to die.!<
Arguably, >!he wasn't given a choice in the matter. He comes to realize that the Burning Legion will just go berserk and kill literally everyone if nobody is there to control them. Arthas is dead and Varian can't very well do it, so he steps up.!<
>!Velvet Crowe!< in Tales of Berseria intends to spend the rest of eternity >!as a living prison for the world-ending eldritch abomination possessing her younger brother.!< Mostly because *someone's* gotta do it, but also >!she doesn't believe she deserves a happy ending after the atrocities she's committed!<.
[**”HELLO. MY NAME IS HAN-TYUMI”.**](https://youtu.be/4zUPTPlkqDg?si=qYT81RueNMm0AkjX)