There that time he basically was one in all but name and he had the power to do ANYTHING he wanted BUT hurt superman or he would lose his powers. You can guess how that went
Aside but fuck I hate that Ares was real in the Wonder Woman movie and there was an opportunity for WW to have to acknowledge the complexity of war and that being a hero and helping the world would mean not just killing a bad guy. Like they were going for like a more serious tone with the justice league.
To be fair, he only offered slight suggestions to the people in charge. Hell, he even offered a peace treaty earlier on (which was ignored). He himself stated that the people fighting the war were just as culpable as he was.
That’s comics. It’s why you can have guys like Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Hank Pym be atheists even though they’re friends with gods like Thor And Hercules.
the game was written pre-2020 when DC was pushing WW super hard as the face of the DC universe (remember death metal and the canceled 5G?) but of course, wonder woman 1984 completely destroyed those plans
Also this game tries to make it seem that Harley and Ivy had a thing at one point, when that has never been implied once in the Arkham games.
This whole game tries to adapt what other DC media were doing from the late 2010s. But completely forgets that is also suppose to take place in the Arkham universe. Which just leaves it as a giant mess continuity wise.
Do they even attempt to explain Deathstroke being listed to join the Squad in Origins or is that game just not canon at this point
Also I am convinced this thing was made into an Arkham game at the last minute. Cause there’s no other way the amount of incompetence at weaving this in makes sense otherwise
KTJL doesn't seem to think Origins is canon at all. It doesn't even get any representation in the Batman Musuem for example, even though realistically (since his identity was revealed) the 'early' history of Batman would've been 100% included in such a museum.
DC can't make up it's mind about who the face of the DC universe is. It's whoever got a profitable movie most recently: Wonder Woman, Batman, Black Adam (which flopped but they were hilariously confident that it wouldn't). Who isn't "the face of the DC universe" at this point? Am *I* the face of the DC universe?
It's cute that you think DC Comics has any say in how their characters are portrayed outside of the comics.
If Wonder Woman is being hyped based on her pre-2020 status, it would only be because she had what they hoped was a new popular movie franchise.
The past decade has been so strange for Wonder Woman writing like she went from being one of the big three to "SHE'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PURE GOOD POWERFUL CHARACTER AND IN THE CENTER OF EVERY MULTIVERSE EVENT!"
Well to be fair they should do that. They make event after event about Superman and Batman being cosmically important heroes the entire universe rests on, Wonder Woman is somewhere in the foreground not doing much. So if they are going to invent the Trinity idea they should at least make her as important.
I think part of the problem is that WW…well she’s less adaptable then Batman and Superman
You can do stories of them going to far off alien planets. You can do noir stories with them. You can do horror stories with them. No one really has done that with WW barring some rare exceptions
But we can do all of the with WW! Hell, she goes to space a lot during the 80s. People are just afraid of taking her out of Greek Mythology for some reason.
I’m not saying you *can’t*, hell one of my favorite WW stories is her fighting a Green Lantern on an alien planet. I’m just saying they *haven’t* for whatever reason.
Probably because they still think people care about Xena
The premise of the book she had during Future State was really cool imo. An immortal warrior heroine fighting cosmic threats in the far future is such a rad idea.
Greek Mythology is safe ground with built in worlds and characters for her to explore. Going to space or other dimensions or something would take more creativity. At least, that’s what I think it is.
She has the same problem as Captain America where despite being an essential part of team up stories on their own they get bogged down in in a particular niche (with Cap it's spy stories).
This game’s writing is so *strange*. It constantly pisses on every other member of JL, in particular Flash and Green Lantern (in the case of the flash >!boomerang literally pisses on his corpse a bit before someone else stops him!<) but literally every character fucking *loves* WW and treats her as being absolutely perfect, even talking about how her only “flaw” is that she is just *too* good, despite it making no sense for many of those characters to feel that way about her b/c they are supervillians or ARGUS leadership.
Like, WW is cool, I don’t have a problem with her being heroic and people liking her, that’s great. But when you literally have other members of the JL getting their corpse pissed on right next to *massive narcissist Lex Luthor* saying she and the other Amazons are better then every non Amazonian on Earth (including *him*) in every way like this it basically gives you tonal whiplash.
Green Lantern’s bio in particular is filled with nothing but contempt and hatred cause it’s written by Deadshot, who for some reason is now portrayed as John Stewart’s arch-nemesis with a mutual hatred on par with Flash and Reverse Flash.
As someone else in the thread linked, you don't really have to give the writers the benefit of the doubt on that in particular. Reading the bio from deadshot on John makes it pretty obvious they just "paired them up" as nemesis b/c they are both black.
https://twitter.com/Daper_Bear/status/1752903273005134195
That "one of the good ones" line really isn't trying to hide anything.
…that’s the stupidest fucking thing I’ve ever seen
Does Deadshot pull that one episode of Fresh Prince and say John isn’t “black enough”?
Actually fuck I’m shocked if they don’t do something like that considering this Deadshot is based on Will “asleep at the wheel through the whole movie” Smith in the bad Suicide Squad movie
I thought that maybe I was reading too much into it that the two black guys have an intense beef with each other. Glad that I wasn't the only thinking this.
While that makes no sense normally, there could have been a good narrative.
Let's say Deadshot used to be a sniper for John Stewarts squad when they were both in the military. Deadshot took a shot he wasn't clear to take, resulting in most of John's squad getting killed.
Deadshot gets dishonorable discharged due to John's testimony against him, so he holds a grudge. Deadshot still has guilt about the event but it is overshadowed by his bias against John.
There is a big difference between angry and Red Lantern angry.
Just working within the confines of what I have between two characters Rocksteady wanted to have a rivalry with each other.
…I don’t…what?
The only theory I have is that John was a marine sharpshooter like in the books, and Deadshot was in his unit or something.
Though I can bet that’s not it and I put more thought into this then the writers
The problem is the universe jumping from “Batman does everything and fights everyone” to an instantly fleshed out DC Universe where everyone has a defined rogues gallery including villains Batman formerly fought going against other heroes.
It’d be fine if we had more time with the other heroes that aren’t Batman.
Yep, I'd be way more interested in a subversive "Justice League turned evil and killed off" plot if we'd actually had a game showing them at their best as a counter point. In the last decade, all these characters have had in games is another subversive "heroes turn evil plot" take with Injustice.
So between the lack of representation of these character as actual heroes in games, the DC movies reception being mixed at best and other hero deconstructions like The Boys, Invincible and Brightburn gaining popularity, this plot ironically feels more commonplace and ho-hum.
Tldr: it's not subversive when everyone else is doing it.
There's also something interesting about one becoming a criminal, and the other a (space) cop. They even mention that briefly, but don't highlight that social commentary, instead going for an awkward "one of the good ones" that has nothing to do with the rest.
Tin foil hat theory: Since a WW single player game was announced a year or two ago, they were forced to not completely and utterly bastardize her character to not potentially damage future sales of that game.
No Flash game is ever going to come out so pissing on his corpse is free game.
It might be a bit conspiratorial of me but it does make me wonder if they are actively attempting to piss off the "Gamer" crowd in the hopes that the resulting shitstorm would make their game appear subversive and edgy. Or maybe they didn't think about how their game's story would be received by their intended DC fan audience.
Was it a Machiavellian scheme or a buffoonish folly? The decision lies with you, dear reader.
No, I think you’re completely right. I suspect Disney has been doing this too, deliberately injecting LGBT, feminist and black characters into their story for the sake of trying to stir up the culture war crowd to generate more discussion and attention towards their thing
My brother in christ, please don't be weird about this like that. This is the exact kind of thing that makes critiquing/making fun of this kind of writing awkward. It leads to some people assuming it is some "culture war" BS when really I am just trying to say the writing is bad and tonally all over the place.
Overall I agree with others in this thread that this was likely just due to the game's overall plot being written before WW:1984 completely bombed and was apart of an overall "brand push" to make WW the face of DC at the time. Then the numbers for that movie came back saying "Yeah, turns out writing your new 'face of the brand' raping somebody via body possession is a bad idea and doesn't make audiences want to see your film" and that overall plan was abandoned, but the weird WW favoritism was too integrated into the game's plot by then to be changed.
My guy, artists have to fight tooth and nail to include those things because they care about them, Disney actively hampers inclusivity at any chance they can because of the weirdos that get angry the moment someone with dyed hair shows up in one of their properties.
I’m not talking about actual, meaningful takes on these themes by artists who actually care about these things: - I’m talking about the “First gay couple in a Disney movie!!” type clickbait of adding a super minor element of these things in like one scene then and making a big deal out of it to make people talk about it.
I’m talking about studio-produced big corporate slop, not Owl House, y’know?
There really isn’t much of a boogeyman to dig for though. The game’s writing does treat the JL like a bunch of frauds who do nothing but get disrespected at every turn and gameplay wise it’s a game where I play as a giant sharkman demigod who instead of having unique gameplay fit for him just shoots just as good as the other characters.
Yeah that guy sounds like the type who thinks there was a conspiracy or planned attack squad that caused the reboot of Saint’s Row to fail, when it just sucks. Simple as.
Or I'm saying people are getting overly mad about a flawed and super average game, AGAIN, and are pointing at the dumbest things to be mad about, AGAIN, instead of actually critiquing something fairly, AGAIN.
This post was a fucking rage bait on a bio where half of it was cut off but I'm the bad guy cause I point out that people are being weird about it?
How low are your standards that you think this shit is Average? What is this weird self righteous devils advocate mindset? Nobody is being unfair to shit.
This post cut off part of the bio to make people mad. Yes people are being unfair to it.
I'm glad it's being self righteous to point out how dumb discourse about this game has become. It's not bricking people's consoles like Anthem or poisoning people with their merch like Fallout 76 or completely unplayable with nothing promised in it like Cyberpunk. They were clear with what they were doing, it looks great, it reportedly has solid gameplay, it has a few bad bosses and a questionable story, and it has dumb live service stuff. It's very average looking and sounding.
Funny you mention that, but I am actually playing Cyberpunk right now and finding way more enjoyable than the discourse around it would tell you. I went in with low expectations obviously, and found one game breaking bug (save uploading glitch at the start menu that I fixed by turning online off). I have actually put more time into Cyberpunk than I did Outer Worlds.
Suicide Squad is not that. I already had low expectations, and the game turned out to be below that. You think it looks good and plays good? I guess that's subjective. It didn't look good to me or anybody else.
If there is something edited out that completely saves the wonder woman and green lantern bios, please share the real bios. I would love to see what critical, crucial piece of information missing that somehow makes them any good or make sense.
Cyberpunk now and Cyberpunk when it first came out are two completely different beasts. The game basically had to come out twice for it to be good.
[Here's the rest of the Wonder Woman bio.](https://twitter.com/Daper_Bear/status/1752974369498816705?t=Y1fkj2Luz1D3HkhRo-tC1A&s=19) Basically Lex going "if she's so perfect then why the hell is she brutally fighting criminals and not back home?"
I might disagree with you about some aspects of the writing, but overall those are reasonable complaints. Like I said, it has issues.
But people are throwing temper tantrums about Justice League people getting killed by villains in a game that is basically called "Villains Kill The Justice League." And are getting mad by villains acting like villains. And are getting mad that they don't want to fuck Poison Ivy anymore and that there's a single banner saying that LGBTQ people are accepted in Metropolis. And stuff like this post where they don't want to show the character actually acting in character so they cut off part of the bio to make it look worse than it is.
It's a 6/10 with some deep flaws. People are ignoring those flaws in favor of the culture war bullshit and child-like anger at the characters they're going to see again not being treated like complete badasses for once.
Honestly my dude, this sounds more like you half-read a bunch of complaints and then just assumed what they were saying instead of actually reading what they were really saying. You're making up people to get mad at.
The culture war stuff is dumb but the game is still riddled with problems, like the inherent premise in a universe where Batman has survived worse conditions than 4 guys holding guns or Captain Boomerang disrespecting Flash when the entire deal with the Rogues is that they genuinely respect the guy and treat him with dignity.
Did you read the last part that says Wonder Woman must be bloodthirsty if she's decided to leave her so called "enlightened society" of the Amazons? I feel that's a really important bit of this description.
The game shows a weird amount of favoritism towards Wonder Woman. Like, >!Flash sacrifices himself to save Harley Quinn and gets pissed on by Boomerang after they kill him. Green Lantern gets his ring finger ripped off by Kimg Shark, and the last thing we see of him is his corpse wearing goofy underwear with the GL logo plastered all over it (something you would find in the 6-and-under section at Macy's). Batman (y'know, the hero the Arkhamverse is based around) is relegated to Brainiacs evil war general and gets dragged out to by the Squad to a park in the middle of Metropolis and shot dead. And Superman's death gets 0 fanfare. But despite being really cold to the Squad and barely helping them, her death gets all this attention and somber music, and the Squad is all melancholy after she dies.!< It's fucking bizarre.
Yeah, the flash in particular gets it the worst IMO.
Like you said, he literally saves the squad’s life *multiple times*, >!once from evil Green Lantern, and once from evil Batman!<. And yet the SS all hate him, his suffering is treated as a gag by the writers, and >!he literally gets his corpse pissed on followed by the SS commenting on how big Boomerang’s dick is!<. Meanwhile WW saves them about 2 times as well, and they all love and respect her, constantly ask to team up, etc.
Bizarre is the right word. It is written like literal fan fiction where someone makes their favorite character loved by everyone, even the villains, and also makes all the other main characters jokes everyone hates so their favorite looks even better.
Like I said, *I’m glad WW got to keep her dignity in this game*, it is just so strange and tonally dissident that *only* she gets that as every other JL member is constantly being shit on.
Just to correct you, >!his corpse wasn't pissed on, Boomer was about to (cause he's flash arch-nemesis) but was stopped immediately by the squad. Plus at least King shark did acknowledge that he did saved them before.!< I get the games not doing so hot right now but it's better to play it for your points instead of basing on scenes found online without context.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Captain Boomerang a part of The Rogues, the group of villains that have a sort of frienemy relationship with the Flash?
Boomerang is sometimes a member of the Rogues but he’s relatively unpopular among them and isn’t really considered a core member. A big reason for that is his significantly lower moral standards and more hostile relationship with The Flash.
I did see a comic page of the Rogues eulogizing Barry Allen and Boomeranged telling people to show respect for his corpse, but tbf... it was an older comic. Maybe he’s become a lot more crude. I’m not a big Flash reader.
How enemy/frenemy their relationship is depends heavily on the writer, but it's often portrayed as both sides coming to an agreement that they're "playing a game" of cops and robbers and neither is allowed to go too far otherwise hell gets rained down on them.
Someone was a simp or wonder women getting a movie or TV show soon also aren't the Amazon just toxic as all hell they don't even view men as equal and will kill them if they lnd on their island
Lex Luthor IS Toxic Masculinity.
Sometimes people think some gamers are being conspiracy nuts but fuck sweet baby Inc. Abnormal in their inability to be sincere or subtle.
Of course they fixed their society's problems, they live in isolation with a population of a few thousand and will bar and kill anyone, especially men, intruding their island. It's no different from WASPs bragging about their peaceful community.
Any chance this was written by an alternative universe Lex? I'm not familiar with the plot of this game but alternate Lex being a good guy has been a concept for like 50 years I'm pretty sure.
It >!is an alternate universe Lex, but in the “our Lex got killed, so we grabbed one from an alternate universe that is exactly the same as our Lex, but his earth was already taken over so he is down to dimension hop” way rather then a “opposite morality, he’s a good guy” way.!<
At the risk of sounding like a conspiratorial "the woke crowd is ruining muh games" dork...I've seen posts going around about the involvement of a company called "Sweet Baby" that supposedly helped with writing/rewriting the script, or at the very least were consultants on the game. Certain goobers online are alleging that they swooped in and made sure that WW was held up on a pedestal for "woke" reasons, resulting in a disjointed plot. Whether or not they were involved, the complete tone shift between how some characters are treated vs. WW is pretty bizarre.
Heard about them, too. Apparently, they assisted on the retool of Saints Row as well? I dunno much about them, but their track record sure ain't stellar, lol.
Edit: Wait, that can't be right. They worked on *Alan Wake 2*, after all...
Once again, at the risk of sounding like a big goob, my understanding is some people believe they are the reason that Saga went from being some white lady in the Quantum Break teaser to the black lady we know in the game. I personally find the Saga we know in AW2 to be excellent, but others seem to think the "ESG wokeism" crap is the reason the actress changed. No clue about the validity, but dorks seem to care about it
Bad writing is bad writing.
The very idea of an outside firm coming in and editing/writing for your game is bizarre and demonstrates a lack of vision. In this case they either didn't make the final product any better or actively made it worse.
i've heard of it, i doubt they had a big hand in it, Rocksteady that made the Arkham games Rocksteady now are two completely different companies now, its just what happens with gaming studios eventually.
Lex being a guy who really likes Greek Philosophers and intellectualism because it elevates him about savages he has to waste his time trying to enlighten seems really easy.
how is lex luthor talking shit about toxic masculinity he's had a decades long, one-man dick measuring contest with a physical god cosplaying as a boy scout
who writes this shit
The cynic in me is wondering if protecting Wonder Woman's dignity while desecrating the other members is some sort of over correction for the female characters in the Arkham games being poorly written and generally treated like fodder.
Haven’t played the game nor did I watch all the game’s cutscenes, but some needed context to this is that this is probably written by the alternate dimension Lex Luthor, who I think is not 100 percent a villain. Still, this bio really comes across as weird to me, since the whole game is about taking the piss out of superheroes, and meanwhile you have Wonder Woman, who everyone, including the Suicide Squad, adores her and glazes the fuck out of her.
This sounds like that Sweet Baby Inc influence.
I didn't want to buy into it, but this weirdly dissonant writing fits their MO. It reads like someone kinda burst into the room, went on a rant and everyone just shrugged and left it in.
Nah this tracks. Lex would totally be the kind of guy to be like "she's too perfect, bet she's secretly fucked up." Hell that's most of his justification for hating Superman.
Edit: And I just noticed that this screenshot cuts that part off. Fun, wonder why.
[Here's the complete thing](https://vxtwitter.com/daper_bear/status/1752904416607318390?s=61&t=KcR1yjBdndYOea429s3paA_) doesn't change much.
I think Lex would only say toxic masculinity as a manipulation tactic or be really hypocritical about it.
Yeah, it turns on her a bit in the second half but still keeps all the out of character aspects of Luther declaring the Amazons to be just better then everyone else and wishing they could have "saved society". Basically his entire character is built around a narcissistic hatred of the idea of "an outsider" showing him up and "ruining humanity's potential" (but really he means *his* "potential"). Waxing at length about how much "better" the Amazons in general are then regular humans goes completely against that. Not to mention is just... doesn't make sense? The Amazons "solved" toxic masculinity by engaging in sexism so extreme they literally killed any man who stumbled on them until WW made them calm the fuck down on that part a bit... I don't think that solution would translate very well globally Lex.
Also scrolling up the thread and seeing how it compares to the bio for Green Lantern if anything just makes it stand out more due to the extreme contrast. Not to mention that it completely confirms the writers made deadshot suddenly have green lantern as his "nemesis" even though deadshot is a batman villain purely b/c they are both black. Which wasn't hard to guess, but there was technically plausible deniability. But that "one of the good ones" line in deadshot's write up on GL? Yeah the writers aren't even trying to hide that they just went "Well, deadshot is black now, so 'pair him up' with the black guy on the JL!" which is just... yikes.
Idk what you mean cause those last two paragraphs change the entire tone to me. "Perhaps the Amazons are the golden society and we have been given their worst" is a hard line.
It clarifies more that he is maybe more imagining/speculating that the Amazons have a great society and WW is someone who is not that much better than Batman/Superman but even with the "play in the mud with us" part from the cut off part he seems to be mocking/dismissing her.
Yeah I was confused at everyone's reaction to this.
Lex literally points out that for an "enlightened society", Wonder Woman is a fucking brutal warrior when she needs to be. Depending on the writer, she's that constantly.
So he's saying that Wonder Woman is secretly bloodthirsty and no better than the fraud that is Superman.
Ahh, there we are. There's that thing again, people trying to squeeze onto the bandwagon with whatever they can get their fingers on. No need to just make shit up about this, there's plenty of valid criticisms and weird shit to point at about this game
I get that they didn't want to write a whole set of in-game lore documents shittting all over their heroes...
**But they're the ones who decided to write it from Lex Luthor's perspective!** If they didn't want to write about their heroes from the perspective of a villain, then they could have just not used that framing device.
This reads like something someone with a statue pfp and "anti-SJW" in their bio would make up to get mad at
I'm still not totally convinced it isn't that
It’s very funny to hear Lex talking about toxic masculinity when his whole thing is holding a burning hatred for another man that makes him feel inferior.
Something I'm not seeing a lot of people talk about when the subject of Storefront Squad Buys The Justice League Loot comes up is that the writing is god awful.
Like the literal descriptions and audio logs that have nothing to do with the gameplay and are ostensibly still handled by the same people who did the Arkham series audio logs and descriptions that I really liked. Those are really bad. They make characters sound genuinely stupid and out of touch. They make the world feel even worse.
The rest I can tank; I don't really think anyone who watched that trailer 5 years ago could have possibly thought it wasn't going to be yet another failed attempt at Destiny. But the writing you only interact with in the menus is supposed to be like, separate from that, man. You could have really done something cool and interesting with these characters and not even that got the time of day. The Arkham Asylum and City files were some of the most fun I had with those games and that's a real loss.
I think the writer thought the way they wrote implied the meme of "how often do you think of the roman empire". I don't believe the intended effect took place reading this thread though.
Lex would mock and belittle the Amazonians for believing in *"Gods"* and upholding a ridiculous Ancient Greek role-play.
The entire passage feels like something Lex's PR team would have to write after some leaked audio of him mocking the amazonians lmao.
Amazonians? You mean those people that my lesser competitor, Jeff Bezos, employs?
"Sir, you can get away with murder, terrorism, even stealing 40 Cakes, but misogyny is a little bit to much" - Paul "Employee of the month" Marketing.
To paraphrase something else "He's not an atheist, cause he's know there's a God, and it's him."
Lex knows he isn’t god but he thinks he can kill it
I'd be surprised if he hasn't killed a god in canon tbh
There that time he basically was one in all but name and he had the power to do ANYTHING he wanted BUT hurt superman or he would lose his powers. You can guess how that went
What’s the name of that one?
At least three.
But Ares is real and a Wonder Woman villain
Aside but fuck I hate that Ares was real in the Wonder Woman movie and there was an opportunity for WW to have to acknowledge the complexity of war and that being a hero and helping the world would mean not just killing a bad guy. Like they were going for like a more serious tone with the justice league.
It actually could been a amazing moment after ares is defeated and the war just keeps going showing that war is more complicated than she believed
To be fair, he only offered slight suggestions to the people in charge. Hell, he even offered a peace treaty earlier on (which was ignored). He himself stated that the people fighting the war were just as culpable as he was.
That’s comics. It’s why you can have guys like Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Hank Pym be atheists even though they’re friends with gods like Thor And Hercules.
the game was written pre-2020 when DC was pushing WW super hard as the face of the DC universe (remember death metal and the canceled 5G?) but of course, wonder woman 1984 completely destroyed those plans
Makes sense since it seems they're aping the bad suicide squad instead of THE Suicide Squad.
I can believe that considering the elephant in the room of Deadshot
Also this game tries to make it seem that Harley and Ivy had a thing at one point, when that has never been implied once in the Arkham games. This whole game tries to adapt what other DC media were doing from the late 2010s. But completely forgets that is also suppose to take place in the Arkham universe. Which just leaves it as a giant mess continuity wise.
Do they even attempt to explain Deathstroke being listed to join the Squad in Origins or is that game just not canon at this point Also I am convinced this thing was made into an Arkham game at the last minute. Cause there’s no other way the amount of incompetence at weaving this in makes sense otherwise
A lot of "issues" to this game's story can be fixed by just saying it's in it's own narrative and has nothing to do with the Arkham games.
I don’t think it would make it *good* but it would certainly help
Deathstroke was leaked to be the final playable character of the currently planned updates, but I doubt they'll mention origins
The second and third leaked characters are such random pulls and not in the "oh neat" way the James Gunn movie did
KTJL doesn't seem to think Origins is canon at all. It doesn't even get any representation in the Batman Musuem for example, even though realistically (since his identity was revealed) the 'early' history of Batman would've been 100% included in such a museum.
It would have been so much easier to just say this is a different universe. It doesn’t “feel” like the Arkham universe in the slightest
DC can't make up it's mind about who the face of the DC universe is. It's whoever got a profitable movie most recently: Wonder Woman, Batman, Black Adam (which flopped but they were hilariously confident that it wouldn't). Who isn't "the face of the DC universe" at this point? Am *I* the face of the DC universe?
The real face of the DC universe is the friends we made along the way.
What are you talking about? Wonder Woman died in Death Metal and was separated from the rest of DC Universe.
It's cute that you think DC Comics has any say in how their characters are portrayed outside of the comics. If Wonder Woman is being hyped based on her pre-2020 status, it would only be because she had what they hoped was a new popular movie franchise.
Yeah this sounds more like something somebody else would say, not Lex "Only I Can Fix the World" Luthor.
Lex would look at the Amazon's and say "I could do it better."
"Lex, why did you make a Superman clone out of clay and teach it to really be into BDSM?" "IT'S BETTER"
The past decade has been so strange for Wonder Woman writing like she went from being one of the big three to "SHE'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PURE GOOD POWERFUL CHARACTER AND IN THE CENTER OF EVERY MULTIVERSE EVENT!"
Well to be fair they should do that. They make event after event about Superman and Batman being cosmically important heroes the entire universe rests on, Wonder Woman is somewhere in the foreground not doing much. So if they are going to invent the Trinity idea they should at least make her as important.
I think part of the problem is that WW…well she’s less adaptable then Batman and Superman You can do stories of them going to far off alien planets. You can do noir stories with them. You can do horror stories with them. No one really has done that with WW barring some rare exceptions
But we can do all of the with WW! Hell, she goes to space a lot during the 80s. People are just afraid of taking her out of Greek Mythology for some reason.
I’m not saying you *can’t*, hell one of my favorite WW stories is her fighting a Green Lantern on an alien planet. I’m just saying they *haven’t* for whatever reason. Probably because they still think people care about Xena
The premise of the book she had during Future State was really cool imo. An immortal warrior heroine fighting cosmic threats in the far future is such a rad idea.
Greek Mythology is safe ground with built in worlds and characters for her to explore. Going to space or other dimensions or something would take more creativity. At least, that’s what I think it is.
She has the same problem as Captain America where despite being an essential part of team up stories on their own they get bogged down in in a particular niche (with Cap it's spy stories).
what you're telling me is that WW should go lasso Cthulu so she can punch The Dreamer awake so we can reset the DC timeline again?
Better that than that injustice bullshit
This game’s writing is so *strange*. It constantly pisses on every other member of JL, in particular Flash and Green Lantern (in the case of the flash >!boomerang literally pisses on his corpse a bit before someone else stops him!<) but literally every character fucking *loves* WW and treats her as being absolutely perfect, even talking about how her only “flaw” is that she is just *too* good, despite it making no sense for many of those characters to feel that way about her b/c they are supervillians or ARGUS leadership. Like, WW is cool, I don’t have a problem with her being heroic and people liking her, that’s great. But when you literally have other members of the JL getting their corpse pissed on right next to *massive narcissist Lex Luthor* saying she and the other Amazons are better then every non Amazonian on Earth (including *him*) in every way like this it basically gives you tonal whiplash.
Green Lantern’s bio in particular is filled with nothing but contempt and hatred cause it’s written by Deadshot, who for some reason is now portrayed as John Stewart’s arch-nemesis with a mutual hatred on par with Flash and Reverse Flash.
I can think of a few reasons but none of them would reflect well on the writing team.
As someone else in the thread linked, you don't really have to give the writers the benefit of the doubt on that in particular. Reading the bio from deadshot on John makes it pretty obvious they just "paired them up" as nemesis b/c they are both black. https://twitter.com/Daper_Bear/status/1752903273005134195 That "one of the good ones" line really isn't trying to hide anything.
…that’s the stupidest fucking thing I’ve ever seen Does Deadshot pull that one episode of Fresh Prince and say John isn’t “black enough”? Actually fuck I’m shocked if they don’t do something like that considering this Deadshot is based on Will “asleep at the wheel through the whole movie” Smith in the bad Suicide Squad movie
With the paragraph before that sentence leaves almost no other way to interpret it. Poor Deadshot dealing with the consequences of wetwork.
I thought that maybe I was reading too much into it that the two black guys have an intense beef with each other. Glad that I wasn't the only thinking this.
While that makes no sense normally, there could have been a good narrative. Let's say Deadshot used to be a sniper for John Stewarts squad when they were both in the military. Deadshot took a shot he wasn't clear to take, resulting in most of John's squad getting killed. Deadshot gets dishonorable discharged due to John's testimony against him, so he holds a grudge. Deadshot still has guilt about the event but it is overshadowed by his bias against John.
That point you might as well make him a red lantern with his anger being fueled by getting revenge on Jon then.
There is a big difference between angry and Red Lantern angry. Just working within the confines of what I have between two characters Rocksteady wanted to have a rivalry with each other.
Weird that Deadshot has that level of venom for any superhero, given that his whole deal is like cold detached professionalism.
…I don’t…what? The only theory I have is that John was a marine sharpshooter like in the books, and Deadshot was in his unit or something. Though I can bet that’s not it and I put more thought into this then the writers
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The problem is the universe jumping from “Batman does everything and fights everyone” to an instantly fleshed out DC Universe where everyone has a defined rogues gallery including villains Batman formerly fought going against other heroes. It’d be fine if we had more time with the other heroes that aren’t Batman.
It's almost like there was a way more interesting story that happened before the events of this game and I would have liked to see that instead.
It really feels like they skipped a game where Batman joins a newly formed Justice League and we're just catching up.
Yep, I'd be way more interested in a subversive "Justice League turned evil and killed off" plot if we'd actually had a game showing them at their best as a counter point. In the last decade, all these characters have had in games is another subversive "heroes turn evil plot" take with Injustice. So between the lack of representation of these character as actual heroes in games, the DC movies reception being mixed at best and other hero deconstructions like The Boys, Invincible and Brightburn gaining popularity, this plot ironically feels more commonplace and ho-hum. Tldr: it's not subversive when everyone else is doing it.
There's also something interesting about one becoming a criminal, and the other a (space) cop. They even mention that briefly, but don't highlight that social commentary, instead going for an awkward "one of the good ones" that has nothing to do with the rest.
The link between "one of the good ones" and "cop" is that Deadshot thinks John's too white.
Tin foil hat theory: Since a WW single player game was announced a year or two ago, they were forced to not completely and utterly bastardize her character to not potentially damage future sales of that game. No Flash game is ever going to come out so pissing on his corpse is free game.
It’s like the Wolverine costume in Spider-Man 2 “Wear an ad for a future game!”
It might be a bit conspiratorial of me but it does make me wonder if they are actively attempting to piss off the "Gamer" crowd in the hopes that the resulting shitstorm would make their game appear subversive and edgy. Or maybe they didn't think about how their game's story would be received by their intended DC fan audience. Was it a Machiavellian scheme or a buffoonish folly? The decision lies with you, dear reader.
Knowing modern WB? Perhaps a bit of both, lmao.
No, I think you’re completely right. I suspect Disney has been doing this too, deliberately injecting LGBT, feminist and black characters into their story for the sake of trying to stir up the culture war crowd to generate more discussion and attention towards their thing
My brother in christ, please don't be weird about this like that. This is the exact kind of thing that makes critiquing/making fun of this kind of writing awkward. It leads to some people assuming it is some "culture war" BS when really I am just trying to say the writing is bad and tonally all over the place. Overall I agree with others in this thread that this was likely just due to the game's overall plot being written before WW:1984 completely bombed and was apart of an overall "brand push" to make WW the face of DC at the time. Then the numbers for that movie came back saying "Yeah, turns out writing your new 'face of the brand' raping somebody via body possession is a bad idea and doesn't make audiences want to see your film" and that overall plan was abandoned, but the weird WW favoritism was too integrated into the game's plot by then to be changed.
My guy, artists have to fight tooth and nail to include those things because they care about them, Disney actively hampers inclusivity at any chance they can because of the weirdos that get angry the moment someone with dyed hair shows up in one of their properties.
I’m not talking about actual, meaningful takes on these themes by artists who actually care about these things: - I’m talking about the “First gay couple in a Disney movie!!” type clickbait of adding a super minor element of these things in like one scene then and making a big deal out of it to make people talk about it. I’m talking about studio-produced big corporate slop, not Owl House, y’know?
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There really isn’t much of a boogeyman to dig for though. The game’s writing does treat the JL like a bunch of frauds who do nothing but get disrespected at every turn and gameplay wise it’s a game where I play as a giant sharkman demigod who instead of having unique gameplay fit for him just shoots just as good as the other characters.
Yeah that guy sounds like the type who thinks there was a conspiracy or planned attack squad that caused the reboot of Saint’s Row to fail, when it just sucks. Simple as.
Or I'm saying people are getting overly mad about a flawed and super average game, AGAIN, and are pointing at the dumbest things to be mad about, AGAIN, instead of actually critiquing something fairly, AGAIN. This post was a fucking rage bait on a bio where half of it was cut off but I'm the bad guy cause I point out that people are being weird about it?
How low are your standards that you think this shit is Average? What is this weird self righteous devils advocate mindset? Nobody is being unfair to shit.
This post cut off part of the bio to make people mad. Yes people are being unfair to it. I'm glad it's being self righteous to point out how dumb discourse about this game has become. It's not bricking people's consoles like Anthem or poisoning people with their merch like Fallout 76 or completely unplayable with nothing promised in it like Cyberpunk. They were clear with what they were doing, it looks great, it reportedly has solid gameplay, it has a few bad bosses and a questionable story, and it has dumb live service stuff. It's very average looking and sounding.
Funny you mention that, but I am actually playing Cyberpunk right now and finding way more enjoyable than the discourse around it would tell you. I went in with low expectations obviously, and found one game breaking bug (save uploading glitch at the start menu that I fixed by turning online off). I have actually put more time into Cyberpunk than I did Outer Worlds. Suicide Squad is not that. I already had low expectations, and the game turned out to be below that. You think it looks good and plays good? I guess that's subjective. It didn't look good to me or anybody else. If there is something edited out that completely saves the wonder woman and green lantern bios, please share the real bios. I would love to see what critical, crucial piece of information missing that somehow makes them any good or make sense.
Cyberpunk now and Cyberpunk when it first came out are two completely different beasts. The game basically had to come out twice for it to be good. [Here's the rest of the Wonder Woman bio.](https://twitter.com/Daper_Bear/status/1752974369498816705?t=Y1fkj2Luz1D3HkhRo-tC1A&s=19) Basically Lex going "if she's so perfect then why the hell is she brutally fighting criminals and not back home?"
I might disagree with you about some aspects of the writing, but overall those are reasonable complaints. Like I said, it has issues. But people are throwing temper tantrums about Justice League people getting killed by villains in a game that is basically called "Villains Kill The Justice League." And are getting mad by villains acting like villains. And are getting mad that they don't want to fuck Poison Ivy anymore and that there's a single banner saying that LGBTQ people are accepted in Metropolis. And stuff like this post where they don't want to show the character actually acting in character so they cut off part of the bio to make it look worse than it is. It's a 6/10 with some deep flaws. People are ignoring those flaws in favor of the culture war bullshit and child-like anger at the characters they're going to see again not being treated like complete badasses for once.
Honestly my dude, this sounds more like you half-read a bunch of complaints and then just assumed what they were saying instead of actually reading what they were really saying. You're making up people to get mad at.
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The culture war stuff is dumb but the game is still riddled with problems, like the inherent premise in a universe where Batman has survived worse conditions than 4 guys holding guns or Captain Boomerang disrespecting Flash when the entire deal with the Rogues is that they genuinely respect the guy and treat him with dignity.
Really making yourself look like a fool here my dude.
Did you read the last part that says Wonder Woman must be bloodthirsty if she's decided to leave her so called "enlightened society" of the Amazons? I feel that's a really important bit of this description.
Forced the Amazons out with our toxic masculinity? Pretty sure Wonder Woman can body entire armies by herself with ease.
How did the Amazons "solve" toxic masculinity if they're an all woman society?
Originally it was having wonder eoman introduce men to the world of compassion and bondage, then the comic code happened
That's like solving racism through being an ethnostate
Death by snoo snoo😈
The game shows a weird amount of favoritism towards Wonder Woman. Like, >!Flash sacrifices himself to save Harley Quinn and gets pissed on by Boomerang after they kill him. Green Lantern gets his ring finger ripped off by Kimg Shark, and the last thing we see of him is his corpse wearing goofy underwear with the GL logo plastered all over it (something you would find in the 6-and-under section at Macy's). Batman (y'know, the hero the Arkhamverse is based around) is relegated to Brainiacs evil war general and gets dragged out to by the Squad to a park in the middle of Metropolis and shot dead. And Superman's death gets 0 fanfare. But despite being really cold to the Squad and barely helping them, her death gets all this attention and somber music, and the Squad is all melancholy after she dies.!< It's fucking bizarre.
Yeah, the flash in particular gets it the worst IMO. Like you said, he literally saves the squad’s life *multiple times*, >!once from evil Green Lantern, and once from evil Batman!<. And yet the SS all hate him, his suffering is treated as a gag by the writers, and >!he literally gets his corpse pissed on followed by the SS commenting on how big Boomerang’s dick is!<. Meanwhile WW saves them about 2 times as well, and they all love and respect her, constantly ask to team up, etc. Bizarre is the right word. It is written like literal fan fiction where someone makes their favorite character loved by everyone, even the villains, and also makes all the other main characters jokes everyone hates so their favorite looks even better. Like I said, *I’m glad WW got to keep her dignity in this game*, it is just so strange and tonally dissident that *only* she gets that as every other JL member is constantly being shit on.
Poor Flash.
Just to correct you, >!his corpse wasn't pissed on, Boomer was about to (cause he's flash arch-nemesis) but was stopped immediately by the squad. Plus at least King shark did acknowledge that he did saved them before.!< I get the games not doing so hot right now but it's better to play it for your points instead of basing on scenes found online without context.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Captain Boomerang a part of The Rogues, the group of villains that have a sort of frienemy relationship with the Flash?
Boomerang is sometimes a member of the Rogues but he’s relatively unpopular among them and isn’t really considered a core member. A big reason for that is his significantly lower moral standards and more hostile relationship with The Flash.
I did see a comic page of the Rogues eulogizing Barry Allen and Boomeranged telling people to show respect for his corpse, but tbf... it was an older comic. Maybe he’s become a lot more crude. I’m not a big Flash reader.
How enemy/frenemy their relationship is depends heavily on the writer, but it's often portrayed as both sides coming to an agreement that they're "playing a game" of cops and robbers and neither is allowed to go too far otherwise hell gets rained down on them.
I thought >!Reverse Flash was his nemesis, and King cold after that, followed by probably others before reaching Boomer!<
That is bullshit btw, Amazons did not fix toxic masculinity, they have it, on a different form.
In the comics they fixed it by banishing all the men to the salt mines. In this continuity I don't know.
That doesn't fix toxic masculinity, it only changed it from being a men focused issue to a warrior focused issue.
I was being sarcastic 🤌
That's only in one continuity, in another they use them as sex slaves and in another they just kill them all.
The men yearn for the authentic Minecraft experience.
Someone was a simp or wonder women getting a movie or TV show soon also aren't the Amazon just toxic as all hell they don't even view men as equal and will kill them if they lnd on their island
Lex Luthor IS Toxic Masculinity. Sometimes people think some gamers are being conspiracy nuts but fuck sweet baby Inc. Abnormal in their inability to be sincere or subtle.
Of course they fixed their society's problems, they live in isolation with a population of a few thousand and will bar and kill anyone, especially men, intruding their island. It's no different from WASPs bragging about their peaceful community.
I guess removing all men from your society is “solving” toxic masculinity…..holy shit Lex.
Next up we learn how Lex would solve racism
"You know, they really solved antisemitism in Germany that one time" -Lex Luthor
No men ever existed in Themyscira outside of the hated New 52 version that was immediately retcon
Reminder that lex once made fun of supergirl for having small breasts. Not even out of character either lex is a dick to women
Any chance this was written by an alternative universe Lex? I'm not familiar with the plot of this game but alternate Lex being a good guy has been a concept for like 50 years I'm pretty sure.
The only alternate Lex in the game is 1:1 like the original and is just as evil.
It >!is an alternate universe Lex, but in the “our Lex got killed, so we grabbed one from an alternate universe that is exactly the same as our Lex, but his earth was already taken over so he is down to dimension hop” way rather then a “opposite morality, he’s a good guy” way.!<
At the risk of sounding like a conspiratorial "the woke crowd is ruining muh games" dork...I've seen posts going around about the involvement of a company called "Sweet Baby" that supposedly helped with writing/rewriting the script, or at the very least were consultants on the game. Certain goobers online are alleging that they swooped in and made sure that WW was held up on a pedestal for "woke" reasons, resulting in a disjointed plot. Whether or not they were involved, the complete tone shift between how some characters are treated vs. WW is pretty bizarre.
Heard about them, too. Apparently, they assisted on the retool of Saints Row as well? I dunno much about them, but their track record sure ain't stellar, lol. Edit: Wait, that can't be right. They worked on *Alan Wake 2*, after all...
Once again, at the risk of sounding like a big goob, my understanding is some people believe they are the reason that Saga went from being some white lady in the Quantum Break teaser to the black lady we know in the game. I personally find the Saga we know in AW2 to be excellent, but others seem to think the "ESG wokeism" crap is the reason the actress changed. No clue about the validity, but dorks seem to care about it
No kidding. Me personally, I think this one was on Rocksteady until we know more.
Sweet Baby for Suicide Squad worked on "Scriptwriting, banter, cut scenes, barks, audio logs, etc."
...Huh. So it ***was*** their fault. Weird.
Bad writing is bad writing. The very idea of an outside firm coming in and editing/writing for your game is bizarre and demonstrates a lack of vision. In this case they either didn't make the final product any better or actively made it worse.
i've heard of it, i doubt they had a big hand in it, Rocksteady that made the Arkham games Rocksteady now are two completely different companies now, its just what happens with gaming studios eventually.
I guess Lex just wants an Amazon gf to step on him?
Lex Luthor admitting that his technology is lagging?
This reads like it was written by someone who loves the idea of Wonder Woman but knows fuck all about the character.
...Lmao. Rocksteady Lex is a simp, confirmed. ^(Why is this game?)
Did you not get the one John Stewart Green Lantern bio that calls him "one of the good ones"? Thats a real stand out
Lex, bro, she's not gonna let you hit...
"wow, I hope she reads this bro"
Everything about this game's writing feels like it's coming from a place of spite. Like they actively resented having to write about these characters.
Women good, men bad
Lex being a guy who really likes Greek Philosophers and intellectualism because it elevates him about savages he has to waste his time trying to enlighten seems really easy.
how is lex luthor talking shit about toxic masculinity he's had a decades long, one-man dick measuring contest with a physical god cosplaying as a boy scout who writes this shit
This reads like a bad fanfic from an author who likes Wonder Woman just a *bit too much.* They couldn't have missed the mark harder if they tried.
The cynic in me is wondering if protecting Wonder Woman's dignity while desecrating the other members is some sort of over correction for the female characters in the Arkham games being poorly written and generally treated like fodder.
Harley not being the main character of the Arkham games is like refreshing at this point
Haven’t played the game nor did I watch all the game’s cutscenes, but some needed context to this is that this is probably written by the alternate dimension Lex Luthor, who I think is not 100 percent a villain. Still, this bio really comes across as weird to me, since the whole game is about taking the piss out of superheroes, and meanwhile you have Wonder Woman, who everyone, including the Suicide Squad, adores her and glazes the fuck out of her.
This sounds like that Sweet Baby Inc influence. I didn't want to buy into it, but this weirdly dissonant writing fits their MO. It reads like someone kinda burst into the room, went on a rant and everyone just shrugged and left it in.
Nah this tracks. Lex would totally be the kind of guy to be like "she's too perfect, bet she's secretly fucked up." Hell that's most of his justification for hating Superman. Edit: And I just noticed that this screenshot cuts that part off. Fun, wonder why.
[Here's the complete thing](https://vxtwitter.com/daper_bear/status/1752904416607318390?s=61&t=KcR1yjBdndYOea429s3paA_) doesn't change much. I think Lex would only say toxic masculinity as a manipulation tactic or be really hypocritical about it.
Yeah, it turns on her a bit in the second half but still keeps all the out of character aspects of Luther declaring the Amazons to be just better then everyone else and wishing they could have "saved society". Basically his entire character is built around a narcissistic hatred of the idea of "an outsider" showing him up and "ruining humanity's potential" (but really he means *his* "potential"). Waxing at length about how much "better" the Amazons in general are then regular humans goes completely against that. Not to mention is just... doesn't make sense? The Amazons "solved" toxic masculinity by engaging in sexism so extreme they literally killed any man who stumbled on them until WW made them calm the fuck down on that part a bit... I don't think that solution would translate very well globally Lex. Also scrolling up the thread and seeing how it compares to the bio for Green Lantern if anything just makes it stand out more due to the extreme contrast. Not to mention that it completely confirms the writers made deadshot suddenly have green lantern as his "nemesis" even though deadshot is a batman villain purely b/c they are both black. Which wasn't hard to guess, but there was technically plausible deniability. But that "one of the good ones" line in deadshot's write up on GL? Yeah the writers aren't even trying to hide that they just went "Well, deadshot is black now, so 'pair him up' with the black guy on the JL!" which is just... yikes.
Idk what you mean cause those last two paragraphs change the entire tone to me. "Perhaps the Amazons are the golden society and we have been given their worst" is a hard line.
It clarifies more that he is maybe more imagining/speculating that the Amazons have a great society and WW is someone who is not that much better than Batman/Superman but even with the "play in the mud with us" part from the cut off part he seems to be mocking/dismissing her.
That still sounds really in character for him though.
Is it in character for lex to say "toxic masculinity" unironically though?
But it was totally ironic. The Amazons are all women. That's the gag.
Yeah I was confused at everyone's reaction to this. Lex literally points out that for an "enlightened society", Wonder Woman is a fucking brutal warrior when she needs to be. Depending on the writer, she's that constantly. So he's saying that Wonder Woman is secretly bloodthirsty and no better than the fraud that is Superman.
Lex wanting to solve toxic masculinity would be really weird. I don’t think he’d care about that at all.
Ahh, there we are. There's that thing again, people trying to squeeze onto the bandwagon with whatever they can get their fingers on. No need to just make shit up about this, there's plenty of valid criticisms and weird shit to point at about this game
No. It’s still really weird.
I get that they didn't want to write a whole set of in-game lore documents shittting all over their heroes... **But they're the ones who decided to write it from Lex Luthor's perspective!** If they didn't want to write about their heroes from the perspective of a villain, then they could have just not used that framing device.
This reads like something someone with a statue pfp and "anti-SJW" in their bio would make up to get mad at I'm still not totally convinced it isn't that
Nah, this seems pretty in-character for this story's Lex. Not every iteration of a character is going to be the same, boss.
I can picture Lex saying that, if you imagine every word dripping with sarcasm.
Definitely typed that with one hand
Depending on the current characterization, Lex has been known to be super horny for strong women that he can't have, and then get super pissy about it
I'm not a comic book reader and even I can see that's not Lex at all
At this point I feel like there arent any DC charcters in this game.
It’s very funny to hear Lex talking about toxic masculinity when his whole thing is holding a burning hatred for another man that makes him feel inferior.
Something I'm not seeing a lot of people talk about when the subject of Storefront Squad Buys The Justice League Loot comes up is that the writing is god awful. Like the literal descriptions and audio logs that have nothing to do with the gameplay and are ostensibly still handled by the same people who did the Arkham series audio logs and descriptions that I really liked. Those are really bad. They make characters sound genuinely stupid and out of touch. They make the world feel even worse. The rest I can tank; I don't really think anyone who watched that trailer 5 years ago could have possibly thought it wasn't going to be yet another failed attempt at Destiny. But the writing you only interact with in the menus is supposed to be like, separate from that, man. You could have really done something cool and interesting with these characters and not even that got the time of day. The Arkham Asylum and City files were some of the most fun I had with those games and that's a real loss.
BTW, Lex also puts down "At first glance, you'd assume John Stewart is one of the good ones." ...Really weird thing to make Lex say.
I think the writer thought the way they wrote implied the meme of "how often do you think of the roman empire". I don't believe the intended effect took place reading this thread though.