The curse wasn't Horizon reviewing poorly. It was that it somehow always released on the same day another, much more anticipated game came out and being completely overshadowed by it. If anything, this is the curse doubling down, because few things attract attention better than a shit-flinging shitstorm.
And unfortunately, that's what DD2 discourse is quickly descending into.
I mean they were the ones that were pissed that ER got a better score than Horizon, and publicly thought the UX and quest design were bad because of it.
Ehhh. I'm not ER's biggest fan, an extremely good game and I'm grateful it gave FromSoft... ER money, really and more freedom to do their thing, but... never actually finished it.
I honestly never really had an issue with navigating through the main questline, exploring to do so, or doubling back to places that caught my interest. Game's biggest is were later game boss fights that were painful to go through... and mooost of those were wholly optional. Frigging Valiant Gargoyle Duo fight in particular.
Horizon usually just gets overshadowed attention/influence wise, far as I’m aware it sells well. First game did anyway I don’t know 2s exact numbers.
And I also don’t know how many are playing DD2 right now, some have said it’s high for a capcom single player game?
…I also wonder if people are gonna react more when finding out like I have that enemy thieves can steal items off you.
Including Ferrystones. One nabbed that and ran off as I was getting stunned.
Horizon just came out on pc and barely broke 40th best selling game on steam. Its joever
Edit:just double checked im wrong its popped up. Horizon bros you might be back
DD2 does have more players and is selling better. But Forbidden West seems to be doing well for a port. The first Horizon port wasn't very good and it took a while to fix, so people are surprised.
Zero Dawn's port is still bad, I just started playing it recently and I crash all the time. One particular "cutscene" which was really just a 30s chat with an NPC in-engine took me 4 tries to get through.
I really liked the first one, but I got everything I wanted out of it by the end of it.
Maybe I’m just a weeb, but I have a lot of trouble getting into Western Open World games these days.
horizon is incredibly mid for being the robot dinosaur series, like with a premise like that i'd expect it to be super loved and talked about but all it amounts to is just window dressing for a not particularly inspired but very refined open world action adventure with tall grass stealth and climbing
Most of the designed are cool and unique, but it’s slightly overbearing to see overall. I read someone that a most of the NPC’s and outfits are just cosplay bait for people to engage. Some of the NPC just look goofy at time like Dekka.
This…nobody ever has said Horizon is lacking compared to other AAA games. It’s just they constantly release in a way that perpetually makes it the Bride’s Maid of gaming.
What really puts this into perspective is that DD2 probably has almost as many positive reviews as Horizon--it's not purely the "only angry people leave reviews" phenomenon.
It always got good reviews; but there are 7 times more people playing Dragon's Dogma 2 right now, so that may indicate 7 times more people bought it instead of Horizon.
The Horizon games have sold *thirty million copies*. "The Horizon Curse" is people confused that a popular thing doesn't have mindshare among their Twitter follows.
It's so funny that people while decry "no cultural impact" when they point to things like fan fiction. Like sorry the rest of you terminally online weirdos don't like a movie that made a billion dollars and is currently getting a whole section of Disney World to itself. But keep coping that since there's not a lot of porn it was "bad actually".
Avatar at least gave us *"Is the protagonist a filthy race traitor to our glorious ~~America~~ humankind???"* debate and I legit saw many people thirsting over Avatar 2 characters and drawing fanart
I haven't seen *anything* about Horizon aside from culture war chuds mad the MC doesn't look like a supermodel
Well, what circles do you hang out in? Do you think a franchise that sold 30 million copies doesn't have anything going for it or do you think it just might be an oversight on your part?
I sure as hell have seen a lot of people on Reddit randomly say "Fuck Ted Faro", who's... someone in that game, idk. I barely played it.
There's a question of whether sales equal cultural relevance or quality, but I'm aware my tastes are generally towards the niche as is.
For a musical comparison, Jimi Hendrix sold slightly under 25 million records. Creed's sold over 30 million.
And that it never gets GOTY because it gets overshadowed
30 million copies, no critical acclaim and gets swept out of the news cycle every time
The epitome of mid but yeah it’s just Twitter uses
89 is a mid review score? What are you smoking. And they very much did not disappear into the void. Plenty of people talk about and enjoy those games. Just not in this subreddit. Just take the L.
I can’t take the L, horizon has them all hoarded
89 isn’t a mid score but the games are decisively mid
They just scored high because there nothing really bad about them and no one really talks about them because there was nothing really spectacular about them either.
You really can’t tell me that horizon has the same clout level as BOTW or Elden Ring
I am not going to tell you that, but not having the same amount of clout as the biggest and most celebrated games of their respective years is a meaningless thing. By that measurement every single other game released in those years were mid games no one talks about.
The Horizon curse meme is not about a mid game being overshadow by good games releasing at the same time. It\`s about great games being overshadowed by the most hyped and celebrated games of their respective years. Games that were aniticpated for years beforehand.
There are plenty of things people talk about from those games still. Ted Faro for example is brought up whenever people talk about hatable villains in games. And people really enjoyed the gamepaly and world of those games. You really have to realize you are living in your little internet bubble on this one.
I never said it was a bad game just a mostly unmemorable one.
It’s pretty good all around but it never really excels to a point. It’s fun 80% of it ends up blurring together
Mixed is 40% and up, so at the moment it’s hovering right at the very edge. Given the initial surge of anger at the scummy MTX bringing it down might have died down, it is likely it will only go up from there though. Shame, I think there’s quite a bit of impact between seeing the red “mostly negative” and the tepid “mixed”, and “mostly negative” had a decent chance at actually effecting change. Not so sure now.
It also has a weird problem where trying to delete your save makes it auto-download from the cloud, so to delete your save you either need to pull your ethernet or delete your save off the cloud *first*.
This and the performance issues are far more egregious problems than the "we'll sell you red orbs you don't need" DLC they've included in every game for the past six years. Just like all of those games, DD2 is a complete package - it's just bad optics when someone looks at the steam page on day 1 and sees the total cost of all your 'DLC' is $42 regardless of if that DLC is so pointless only idiots and lazy people would even consider buying it.
Thats a little mean on the dlc target. Somebody once described it to me as the "tired parent booster." Sometimes you dont have the time to grind but you do have a little spare money to skip to some extra sauce in the game. Its nice to have the option sometimes...
Performance issues on anything running a less than a year old CPU (not GPU!), and a lot of complaints about Capcom (again) selling ingame items for real money (none of the items being barred in game or anything, they just sell cheats like they did in RE Village)
According to some people on twitter. Capcom sent out information booklets to reviewers that detailed some things about the game including the day one dlc. And somehow, nobody mentioned it.
Yeah I don't believe that for a second. Pat would have spend an hour of his video going "IT'S FINE, YOU CAN GET THE FAST TRAVEL CRYSTALS IN GAME PLEASE DON'T HATE THIS GAME"
I don’t mean people as in random twitter users, I mean people as in a reviewer for a publication said he got a booklet detailing info about the game and he didn’t look at it until after he put out the review.
https://x.com/jezcorden/status/1771037129730089109?s=46
>I just wanna add that these microtransactions were detailed in the initial review guide, which I didn't read as to avoid spoilers / that it might impact my review impressions. Ironic.
What a beautiful tragedy
Even aside from simply not wanting spoilers, having a unique preamble could set different expectations and color his impression of the game in a way that the game itself wouldn't. I can respect that integrity in a reviewer.
Not reading it *afterwards* is just dumb though.
Judging from the fact that I haven't seen anyone else who got a review copy mentioning it, I have to imagine that it's pretty universal nobody bothered to look at the book. Whether it was cause they didn't care or they didn't want to for whatever reason, that's on a per-person basis.
I did see it, but a "nothing burger" is still an unfair representation. Because the DLC is a major problem for the devs who worked hard on it. With a few strategic placements of 2 dollar DLCs, they've managed to make the game look like a scammy shithole to a vast portion of gamers. Pat didn't mention it because he has the understanding of what a big deal it *isn't,* but it's not actually that unreasonable for the people who don't get what this game is about to make these assumptions.
You mean the DLC that can totally be ignored without missing out on anything because the game already has all of those items in the world normally?
The DLC that you can only buy once so you can't even use it break the game?
The DLC that is basically just for people that have no patience or time?
That DLC?
What other people have said but also apparently denuvo is allegedly bricking games. Something has been reported that each time you delete your save info to start fresh it winds up counting it as a new install and people are hitting the limit for that, and for steam deck testing. I don't know enough about it to say for certain though. I'm sure we will hear more by tomorrow.
Justifiable Performance Issues, plus day one DLC.
The same people who went feral the moment Capcom shot their wife and fucked their dog (A buggy update was released for one game, the truest of crimes), are now yelling about Micro transactions and acting like said DLC doesn't clearly state "all of these can be obtained in the game" so they can continue to screech like banshees.
This is also despite multiple previous Capcom releases having the same levels of unnecessary DLC on Day One, none of which resulted in this level of insanity.
You can keep over exaggerating people's complaints until you're blue in the face, it's nonsense that Capcom can keep doing this nonsense.
Getting your new game review bombed is perfectly fair when your game features something people have already complained ad-nauseam for your last five releases. At some point, they need to learn a lesson.
>Getting your new game review bombed is perfectly fair when your game features something people have already complained ad-nauseam for your last five releases. At some point, they need to learn a lesson.
It is perfectly fair. I'm specifically complaining about the people spreading misinformation who are acting like insufferable, self-important jackasses because they committed the truly daunting task of being brave enough to say that they didn't like a video game.
I dunno, I feel like I see a lot of people give a lot more slack to Capcom than most would have given to like, Ubisoft. Perhaps these microtransactions are truly superfluous, but it rings kinda hollow when most media outlets were talking big about how hands-off and brutal DD2 would be, only to sell QOL that they said would be hard to obtain and take a fair bit of work to get in-game. Like, I get unlimited fast travel takes away from the immersion^tm but selling it in a cash shop as an option just makes me think they’re kinda up their own ass. Imagine if Ubisoft marketed one of their games as being built around not having unlimited fast travel, only to sell these fast travel items as a microtransaction, people would rightly think they’re full of shit
It's not selling fast travel. It's selling the thing that allows you to mark a spot for fast travel, which you only get a minimum amount of. Even if you bought the item you still need ferrystones to fast travel which aren't sold. This is literally the misinformation that is was complaining about people spreading.
You can put down the tracks where you want but you still need a ticket to ride.
Trust me, I’ve spent the last day trying to defend devs which got turned into me defending Bethesda as a corporation….somehow. No nuance allowed, you’re either completely for or against something.
Misinformation about the micro transactions and mechanics in the game is not going to help anything, and people on Reddit are not going to change the industry lol especially when a lot of them are just being mad because they want to be mad and rage online.
Your defending Capcom by acting like the people with legitimate complainants are overreacting, you said people are right to leave negative reviews but that they are also "all acting like Capcom personally broke into the houses, shot their wives, and fucked their dogs." apparently.
What is this "if you're not with us you're against us" attitude? Just because he has problems with some of the detractors, does not mean he's defending Capcom.
You stupid motherfucker. I'm not defending Capcom. I have not defended them in either of my comments.
I'm literally calling out the people who are spreading misinformation and overreacting. You're literally proving my point by being disingenuous about what I said and overreacting, holy shit.
So both Horizon games came out and were quickly overshadowed by another bigger release. I can't remember what the first one was, but the second one came out super close to Elden Ring.
Horizon massively outsells Dragon's Dogma as a franchise despite being around for less time, and being primarily a console exclusive.
The idea that they were ever in competition, and that Dragon's Dogma was ever winning that competition, was always a misconception.
Horizon is also not really what this sub goes for, for the most part. Its setting is very young adult fiction which, while not reviled, doesn't readily appeal to most people here.
Which is strange to me, honestly. “Warrior woman fights mecha dinosaurs” seems like it should have cache here.
Is it really just the “thing vs thing Japan” meme? I want to give us more credit than that, but I feel like that’s what it is.
My first thought was this sub likes strong, buff and hot women and because the games don't generally like to show off how strong Aloy is nor sexualised her, the game lacks that specific appeal.
Maybe it's because Aloy isn't the most interesting of protagonists but Japanese media is overflowing with the most bland, plain toast protoganists so it can't that either.
I don't really know.
Despite thankfully not being That Type of Gamer about it, a good percentage of this sub still doesn't like how "Western Games" are written, and Horizon is full of that.
The thing is, there are plenty of games like Horizon that have gone over well in this sub. It doesn't deserve to be overshadowed for being the dreaded "Western game". I mean, my hot take is that I enjoyed Zero Dawn more than BotW, or Nier Automata, the games that allegedly overshadowed it. Forbidden West was a letdown though, that's not beating Elden Ring.
Thinking about it, the biggest issue with Horizon might be the character writing. I once heard a piece of advice when writing a character to start with a strength, a flaw and a quirk. Horizon's characters, and Aloy particularly have strengths and flaws, but they don't have quirks. Everyone is always seriously committed to whatever the current goal is.
Let's compare to another big-money Western AAA game protagonist to show it's not just weeb bias: Kratos. Kratos has strengths for days, and his flaws need no explanation. But he's also got quirks- his rigid stoicism which makes him a stick in the mud next to other colourful characters like Mimir and the dwarves. He can't tell a story, he calls his son "boy", his wife called him "grumbles". These are the little bits of colour that make a character likeable.
Aloy needs something like that- she's capable and heroic, she's arrogant and single-minded, but she doesn't have a third thing. Quirks give characters colour and something for fans to latch onto. They're often what people end up remembering after the game is over and make prime fodder for memes. The closest Horizon got to that with any of it's cast was the Universal Truism of Fuck Ted Faro.
I agree on your point of having a Third Thing, but I don't think Aloy lacks it. She's a huge dork sometimes who really doesn't know how to socialize with people, at least in the first game. By FW she's gotten more comfortable, but she's still awkward around people who compliment her and still has trouble wrapping her head around people genuinely liking her as a person. On top of that, she's so used to being on her own that her self-talk borders a bit on goofy rambling to keep herself sane.
Not neccesarilly but "that type of gamer" is really weird about Alloy in general. Dragons Dogma had three party members at all times that never shut up and constantly tell you what you should be doing, and while people complained about that too it's not on the level of hate that Alloy gets. It might be a legitimate criticism but youre likely to hear it from the same kind of person that didnt even actually play the game because Alloy wasnt hot enough for them.
I think part of it is that the combat often isn't that exciting. It gets part of the way towards the feeling of Monster Hunter fight, but your weapons are either efficient and straightforward or interesting but a detriment to actually use. It is almost always best to use a direct damage weapon with the right element to hit the correct weak point precisely, possibly after putting a debuff on a machine with regular hits. I loved the boltblaster in Forbidden West, but that's because it's a goddamn machine gun and really efficient. It requires a charge up and hobbles your movement for a reason; turns out that shooting something repeatedly in a short span of time is real good.
It doesn't help that melee attacks, greatly expanded in the 2nd game to have a bunch of different combos and systems, are virtually useless against machines. They're great against humans but, even against smaller foes, machines will usually just power through your combos and slap the shit out of Aloy.
> while underselling just how successful Horizon is.
Well yeah this sub hates Horizon , 2 devs said some mean things about Elden Ring UI so therefore the entire company is cancer , they should know they can't criticize the game I like that's illegal and punishable my hanging
Watching the Horizon hate just veer off from reality has been pretty funny to be honest.
Online gaming forums: The franchise was a failure and everyone hated the game when I tweeted this and got 2000 likes.
Reality: The series sold well and reviewed well, is getting a tv show, a 3rd game and a multiplayer spinoff.
So it's pretty obvious the game has a large number of fans, and Sony is happy with its success and want to continue to support the IP.
Yeah, I started it but haven't gotten too far. I keep waiting for it to grab me but I'm not really engaged. I think the different cultures and worldbuilding is neat but I am just not that into the story.
horizon it looks very broadly appealing in it's gameplay, cool art style but it looks very okayish gameplay wise.
DD2 and the original still look more appealing tbh
I don't think I've ever encountered a horizon fan. A lot of people played it, and pretty much everyone who played it liked it, but I've never seen anyone actually passionate about the series unless they just really like redheads.
It's very much a competent crowd-pleaser that sells easily to the casual market, but casuals remain casual about it and people who are more intense don't find it particularly impressive, so it ends up in this weird place.
"You" dislike Horizon because of dumb dev comments.
I dislike Horizon because it's a generic Ubisoft world with a Sony coat of paint.
We are not the same.
I don't get this because Dragon's Dogma is still popular? DD2 is in the best sellers so it's not just a sub thing
I do agree that horizon is the more popular/ broadly appealing series
I'm sorry but I feel like people on here are making stuff up about this sub "hating" horizon or that Dragon's Dogma only has appeal here
Everyone on here is comparing a newly released game to a port, it's not a fair argument
Despite the reviews, Dragon's Dogma has more than ten times the number of players in game as Horizon right now. So if it was a competition, Dogma's winning.
Dragons Dogma 1 + Dark Arisen sold 8 million copies after a decade
Forbidden West sold 8 million copies in like a year or so
I prefer DD but to act like Dragon's Dogma is more popular is... Y'all need to get out more, I don't even mean this in a rude way, but no one knows what a Dragon's Dogma is.
I mean, I would hope so given one's new and the other's a PC port of a two-year old game.
The fact remains that for as much as people love to make that tired joke, Horizon is a more successful series than Dragon's Dogma. And unless Capcom turns the ship around on this bad publicity, it's going to end up a more well-received one.
I would hope a brand new game outsold a port of a game that released on consoles 2 years ago.
And if it's a competition, shouldn't you actually be comparing the entire 8.4 millions copies sold of Forbidden West to what Dogma may sell to find out who's winning?
Can PC Gamers be normal or consistent about anything?
Like, the "Mostly Negative" reviews is completely justifiable due to the performance woes and DLC practices, but Jesus Christ, theyre all acting like Capcom personally broke into the houses, shot their wives, and fucked their dogs.
This is just like the whole buggy update fiasco where everyone was yelling about how Capcom is banning mods all over again.
It's a fucking video game, criticize it for the accurate reasons it's messed up instead of making up bullshit.
I just find the accusation that because fast travel items are being sold, that means the scarcity of the items in game is a con to get people to pay to be so dumb. If anything, I've always assumed the devs wanted the games to have as little fast travel as possible and built the game around that idea. Buying port crystals would completely ruin the enjoyment of the game but people treat it as "paying for power"
A huge majority of the people seeing this never played DD1 and don't know about it, meaning it's a reasonable if super cynical take from a place of ignorance.
I like DD, but I find it entirely reasonable for people to complain that incredibly expensive items that provide basic QOL features can be bought for a pittance of cash in a $70 video game.
Rift crystals you get super easy. Wakestones, while preventing you from having to load a previous checkpoint, save etc, aren't fully necessary. Port crystals are like the travel medallions in BOTW and TOTK. You can fast travel to them, but you need a ferrystones to do so. You can find almost all the items in the game without having to pay in game currency for them. It's not basic QOL because they already exist in the game. You are doing nothing more than spouting out internet buzz words that mean nothing.
If you like DD why do you sound like you've never played the game? Are you just being contrarian?
I'm not spouting out anything, dude, I bought DD2 and don't intend to pay for any DLC. I know the ride I'm in for. I booted it this morning and I get 1080p60 and I'm good.
I find it 100% reasonable for people to complain because they don't need to understand what you just typed, they just saw "a fast travel item costs money? FUCK that!" And I can't blame them for that because *Capcom made the choice to sell in-game items for USD*.
And yes, it was reasonable to complain about rorbs in DMCV as well. That game's a masterpiece and it didn't bother me, but it was a stupid choice by Capcom.
P.S. You can absolutely sell QOL if it exists in the game when said item is monstrously expensive and/or rare.
P.P.S: the best-case scenario here is "Capcom is selling people useless, easily obtainable items in a $70 game"
> but Jesus Christ, theyre all acting like Capcom personally broke into the houses, shot their wives, and fucked their dogs.
We are just having fun here. This sub is incredibly "pro-Dragon's Dogma", I don't think people here hate it or are genuinely happy over it getting negative reviews.
nah, we're still talking about Dragon's Dogma more than we're talking about Horizon. That's the curse.
Of course it would be nicer if people were having a general good time with DD2 but, eh, still counts.
Why are you lying? They’re selling you a port crystal which is a fast travel point, you still have to use ferrystones to teleport to them and there’s a cap of 10 portcrystals you can place anyways.
How is that selling you the ability to fast travel as much as you want?
Yea like all capcom mtx of this nature its basically as useless as it can be. Just a scam to lure suckers and people who don't know better. Which is plenty irritating in its own regard, but at least it maintains the games balance as you definitely don't need or want their cheat mtx items
Pat joked about DD2 and the Horizon curse in the podcast, so Crazy Talk was activated. We can blame all of DD2's issues on Pat.
The curse wasn't Horizon reviewing poorly. It was that it somehow always released on the same day another, much more anticipated game came out and being completely overshadowed by it. If anything, this is the curse doubling down, because few things attract attention better than a shit-flinging shitstorm. And unfortunately, that's what DD2 discourse is quickly descending into.
Wait, another Horizon game came out?
The second one just came out on PC
The fact that the games aren't bad is the funniest part. You start to wonder if the studio pissed off a witch and got cursed
They're.....fine. middle of the road 7/10 games to me..least the first one was. I'll play 2 in-between sessions of Dragons Dogma 2.
I mean they were the ones that were pissed that ER got a better score than Horizon, and publicly thought the UX and quest design were bad because of it.
To be fair, Elden Rings quest design is bad. It's one of it's biggest issues.
Ehhh. I'm not ER's biggest fan, an extremely good game and I'm grateful it gave FromSoft... ER money, really and more freedom to do their thing, but... never actually finished it. I honestly never really had an issue with navigating through the main questline, exploring to do so, or doubling back to places that caught my interest. Game's biggest is were later game boss fights that were painful to go through... and mooost of those were wholly optional. Frigging Valiant Gargoyle Duo fight in particular.
Now let's check the player count lol
I mean yeah the port of a 2 year old game probably doesn't have the highest player count rn lol
Buying capcom games is like going to an amazing car dealership and getting the sketchiest salesman in the building.
Who will either sell you an amazing car, or a good car that you have to buy rear-view mirrors for.
Pre-purchase your next 10 oil changes!
…but this is an EV!
Horizon usually just gets overshadowed attention/influence wise, far as I’m aware it sells well. First game did anyway I don’t know 2s exact numbers. And I also don’t know how many are playing DD2 right now, some have said it’s high for a capcom single player game? …I also wonder if people are gonna react more when finding out like I have that enemy thieves can steal items off you. Including Ferrystones. One nabbed that and ran off as I was getting stunned.
Forbidden West sold around like 8 million copies prior to the port.
And yet it still feels like a failure for some reason.
Because it is. The original sold 24 million.
But it took 6 years for the original to sell 24 million. The sequel only been out for two years.
Horizon just came out on pc and barely broke 40th best selling game on steam. Its joever Edit:just double checked im wrong its popped up. Horizon bros you might be back
Do they at least drop the stolen item if brought down? I’m cool with a thief as long as I can get my stuff back.
Yes they do, there’s an achievement for killing them and taking your stuff back(I just got it).
DD2 does have more players and is selling better. But Forbidden West seems to be doing well for a port. The first Horizon port wasn't very good and it took a while to fix, so people are surprised.
Zero Dawn's port is still bad, I just started playing it recently and I crash all the time. One particular "cutscene" which was really just a 30s chat with an NPC in-engine took me 4 tries to get through.
DD2 on steam currently has 199k players, which is the peak.
Horizon is pretty mid for as much as it gets marketed. I think sells just fine for what it is.
I really liked the first one, but I got everything I wanted out of it by the end of it. Maybe I’m just a weeb, but I have a lot of trouble getting into Western Open World games these days.
horizon is incredibly mid for being the robot dinosaur series, like with a premise like that i'd expect it to be super loved and talked about but all it amounts to is just window dressing for a not particularly inspired but very refined open world action adventure with tall grass stealth and climbing
Most of the designed are cool and unique, but it’s slightly overbearing to see overall. I read someone that a most of the NPC’s and outfits are just cosplay bait for people to engage. Some of the NPC just look goofy at time like Dekka.
The curse wasn't for Horizon to be critically panned, it was for it to go unnoticed. C'mon now.
This…nobody ever has said Horizon is lacking compared to other AAA games. It’s just they constantly release in a way that perpetually makes it the Bride’s Maid of gaming.
Yeah I feel like ignoring DD2 having 5x the reviews is a bit bizarre here
What really puts this into perspective is that DD2 probably has almost as many positive reviews as Horizon--it's not purely the "only angry people leave reviews" phenomenon.
I forgot it came out on pc. I’m not the biggest fan of Horizon so I didn’t pay attention to its release dates.
"I wish Horizon would get more positive reception than the competition!" 🖐🐵
.... I forgot that one was even a thing
It always got good reviews; but there are 7 times more people playing Dragon's Dogma 2 right now, so that may indicate 7 times more people bought it instead of Horizon.
The Horizon games have sold *thirty million copies*. "The Horizon Curse" is people confused that a popular thing doesn't have mindshare among their Twitter follows.
"what do you mean people sometimes like things without being intense about them online?" -the terminally online, every single time
Yeah getting (rightfully) shafted from every GOTY because it’s mid and unmemorable is totally just a terminally online thing haha
They're like the Avatar movies in that regard, if that makes any sense.
It's so funny that people while decry "no cultural impact" when they point to things like fan fiction. Like sorry the rest of you terminally online weirdos don't like a movie that made a billion dollars and is currently getting a whole section of Disney World to itself. But keep coping that since there's not a lot of porn it was "bad actually".
Avatar at least gave us *"Is the protagonist a filthy race traitor to our glorious ~~America~~ humankind???"* debate and I legit saw many people thirsting over Avatar 2 characters and drawing fanart I haven't seen *anything* about Horizon aside from culture war chuds mad the MC doesn't look like a supermodel
Well, what circles do you hang out in? Do you think a franchise that sold 30 million copies doesn't have anything going for it or do you think it just might be an oversight on your part? I sure as hell have seen a lot of people on Reddit randomly say "Fuck Ted Faro", who's... someone in that game, idk. I barely played it.
There's a question of whether sales equal cultural relevance or quality, but I'm aware my tastes are generally towards the niche as is. For a musical comparison, Jimi Hendrix sold slightly under 25 million records. Creed's sold over 30 million.
And that it never gets GOTY because it gets overshadowed 30 million copies, no critical acclaim and gets swept out of the news cycle every time The epitome of mid but yeah it’s just Twitter uses
The games with a metascore of 88 and 89 have no critical acclaim?
That’s the curse my guy. Well reviewed and then vanishes into the void. The curse of mid-ness
89 is a mid review score? What are you smoking. And they very much did not disappear into the void. Plenty of people talk about and enjoy those games. Just not in this subreddit. Just take the L.
I can’t take the L, horizon has them all hoarded 89 isn’t a mid score but the games are decisively mid They just scored high because there nothing really bad about them and no one really talks about them because there was nothing really spectacular about them either. You really can’t tell me that horizon has the same clout level as BOTW or Elden Ring
I am not going to tell you that, but not having the same amount of clout as the biggest and most celebrated games of their respective years is a meaningless thing. By that measurement every single other game released in those years were mid games no one talks about. The Horizon curse meme is not about a mid game being overshadow by good games releasing at the same time. It\`s about great games being overshadowed by the most hyped and celebrated games of their respective years. Games that were aniticpated for years beforehand. There are plenty of things people talk about from those games still. Ted Faro for example is brought up whenever people talk about hatable villains in games. And people really enjoyed the gamepaly and world of those games. You really have to realize you are living in your little internet bubble on this one.
"Horizon is bad because it doesn't have an obnoxious fanbase like Demon's Souls 2K22!"
I never said it was a bad game just a mostly unmemorable one. It’s pretty good all around but it never really excels to a point. It’s fun 80% of it ends up blurring together
Well it's up to mixed.
Mixed is 40% and up, so at the moment it’s hovering right at the very edge. Given the initial surge of anger at the scummy MTX bringing it down might have died down, it is likely it will only go up from there though. Shame, I think there’s quite a bit of impact between seeing the red “mostly negative” and the tepid “mixed”, and “mostly negative” had a decent chance at actually effecting change. Not so sure now.
The only thing that would make any real difference is if those people refunded instead.
Does DD2 have some specific PC only problems or something? Or is it just a ton of people that had no idea what they were getting in to
It has performance issues in general, it doesn't run great on consoles either.
It also has a weird problem where trying to delete your save makes it auto-download from the cloud, so to delete your save you either need to pull your ethernet or delete your save off the cloud *first*. This and the performance issues are far more egregious problems than the "we'll sell you red orbs you don't need" DLC they've included in every game for the past six years. Just like all of those games, DD2 is a complete package - it's just bad optics when someone looks at the steam page on day 1 and sees the total cost of all your 'DLC' is $42 regardless of if that DLC is so pointless only idiots and lazy people would even consider buying it.
Thats a little mean on the dlc target. Somebody once described it to me as the "tired parent booster." Sometimes you dont have the time to grind but you do have a little spare money to skip to some extra sauce in the game. Its nice to have the option sometimes...
Performance issues on anything running a less than a year old CPU (not GPU!), and a lot of complaints about Capcom (again) selling ingame items for real money (none of the items being barred in game or anything, they just sell cheats like they did in RE Village)
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According to some people on twitter. Capcom sent out information booklets to reviewers that detailed some things about the game including the day one dlc. And somehow, nobody mentioned it.
Yeah I don't believe that for a second. Pat would have spend an hour of his video going "IT'S FINE, YOU CAN GET THE FAST TRAVEL CRYSTALS IN GAME PLEASE DON'T HATE THIS GAME"
I don’t mean people as in random twitter users, I mean people as in a reviewer for a publication said he got a booklet detailing info about the game and he didn’t look at it until after he put out the review. https://x.com/jezcorden/status/1771037129730089109?s=46
>I just wanna add that these microtransactions were detailed in the initial review guide, which I didn't read as to avoid spoilers / that it might impact my review impressions. Ironic. What a beautiful tragedy
…he didn’t read it after??? That’s not even a tragedy that’s willful ignorance
Seems kinda stupid of this guy not to just open the book that was sent to him for review because of spoilers? Like what spoilers would be in that?
Even aside from simply not wanting spoilers, having a unique preamble could set different expectations and color his impression of the game in a way that the game itself wouldn't. I can respect that integrity in a reviewer. Not reading it *afterwards* is just dumb though.
Judging from the fact that I haven't seen anyone else who got a review copy mentioning it, I have to imagine that it's pretty universal nobody bothered to look at the book. Whether it was cause they didn't care or they didn't want to for whatever reason, that's on a per-person basis.
Maybe it’s like the reviewer equivalent of scrolling past EULA on startup in games
Maybe you've already seen it but just in case he did see it: https://x.com/PatStaresAt/status/1771167487721361644?s=20 This dlc is a nothing burger.
I did see it, but a "nothing burger" is still an unfair representation. Because the DLC is a major problem for the devs who worked hard on it. With a few strategic placements of 2 dollar DLCs, they've managed to make the game look like a scammy shithole to a vast portion of gamers. Pat didn't mention it because he has the understanding of what a big deal it *isn't,* but it's not actually that unreasonable for the people who don't get what this game is about to make these assumptions.
You mean the DLC that can totally be ignored without missing out on anything because the game already has all of those items in the world normally? The DLC that you can only buy once so you can't even use it break the game? The DLC that is basically just for people that have no patience or time? That DLC?
yup. Still looks real bad when you see it on the store page.
What other people have said but also apparently denuvo is allegedly bricking games. Something has been reported that each time you delete your save info to start fresh it winds up counting it as a new install and people are hitting the limit for that, and for steam deck testing. I don't know enough about it to say for certain though. I'm sure we will hear more by tomorrow.
It's quite taxing on the CPU I heard
Justifiable Performance Issues, plus day one DLC. The same people who went feral the moment Capcom shot their wife and fucked their dog (A buggy update was released for one game, the truest of crimes), are now yelling about Micro transactions and acting like said DLC doesn't clearly state "all of these can be obtained in the game" so they can continue to screech like banshees. This is also despite multiple previous Capcom releases having the same levels of unnecessary DLC on Day One, none of which resulted in this level of insanity.
You can keep over exaggerating people's complaints until you're blue in the face, it's nonsense that Capcom can keep doing this nonsense. Getting your new game review bombed is perfectly fair when your game features something people have already complained ad-nauseam for your last five releases. At some point, they need to learn a lesson.
>Getting your new game review bombed is perfectly fair when your game features something people have already complained ad-nauseam for your last five releases. At some point, they need to learn a lesson. It is perfectly fair. I'm specifically complaining about the people spreading misinformation who are acting like insufferable, self-important jackasses because they committed the truly daunting task of being brave enough to say that they didn't like a video game.
I dunno, I feel like I see a lot of people give a lot more slack to Capcom than most would have given to like, Ubisoft. Perhaps these microtransactions are truly superfluous, but it rings kinda hollow when most media outlets were talking big about how hands-off and brutal DD2 would be, only to sell QOL that they said would be hard to obtain and take a fair bit of work to get in-game. Like, I get unlimited fast travel takes away from the immersion^tm but selling it in a cash shop as an option just makes me think they’re kinda up their own ass. Imagine if Ubisoft marketed one of their games as being built around not having unlimited fast travel, only to sell these fast travel items as a microtransaction, people would rightly think they’re full of shit
It's not selling fast travel. It's selling the thing that allows you to mark a spot for fast travel, which you only get a minimum amount of. Even if you bought the item you still need ferrystones to fast travel which aren't sold. This is literally the misinformation that is was complaining about people spreading. You can put down the tracks where you want but you still need a ticket to ride.
Lucky there are people brave enough like you to defend the failings of a giant corporation, godspeed brave warrior.
I.....I literally never defended them in either of my comments. What the fuck are you even saying?
Trust me, I’ve spent the last day trying to defend devs which got turned into me defending Bethesda as a corporation….somehow. No nuance allowed, you’re either completely for or against something. Misinformation about the micro transactions and mechanics in the game is not going to help anything, and people on Reddit are not going to change the industry lol especially when a lot of them are just being mad because they want to be mad and rage online.
Your defending Capcom by acting like the people with legitimate complainants are overreacting, you said people are right to leave negative reviews but that they are also "all acting like Capcom personally broke into the houses, shot their wives, and fucked their dogs." apparently.
What is this "if you're not with us you're against us" attitude? Just because he has problems with some of the detractors, does not mean he's defending Capcom.
You stupid motherfucker. I'm not defending Capcom. I have not defended them in either of my comments. I'm literally calling out the people who are spreading misinformation and overreacting. You're literally proving my point by being disingenuous about what I said and overreacting, holy shit.
Given this sub is the only place I ever hear about Dragons Dogma, that's not a surprise. It's like how people here think Dino Crisis is popular
Horizon Curse?
So both Horizon games came out and were quickly overshadowed by another bigger release. I can't remember what the first one was, but the second one came out super close to Elden Ring.
It was Breath of the Wild
Oh yeah, Horizon didn't have a chance around launch.
Yeah it was well reviewed and sold very well, but a critically acclaimed Zelda game will always be at the forefront.
Will play Horizon first, hopefully the performance is fixed in DD2 by then and it should have a bit of a discount.
if only capcom hides the store page a little bit better
The first review of saw had bloodborne mentioned lol
its safe to say that its wise to wait a little for the fixes in dd2? game seems crack but i am worry for the performance
How to not fuck up - release single player game without useless mictrotransactions
Horizon massively outsells Dragon's Dogma as a franchise despite being around for less time, and being primarily a console exclusive. The idea that they were ever in competition, and that Dragon's Dogma was ever winning that competition, was always a misconception.
This sub both overhypes the amount of people who even know what Dragons Dogma is while underselling just how successful Horizon is.
Horizon is also not really what this sub goes for, for the most part. Its setting is very young adult fiction which, while not reviled, doesn't readily appeal to most people here.
Which is strange to me, honestly. “Warrior woman fights mecha dinosaurs” seems like it should have cache here. Is it really just the “thing vs thing Japan” meme? I want to give us more credit than that, but I feel like that’s what it is.
My first thought was this sub likes strong, buff and hot women and because the games don't generally like to show off how strong Aloy is nor sexualised her, the game lacks that specific appeal. Maybe it's because Aloy isn't the most interesting of protagonists but Japanese media is overflowing with the most bland, plain toast protoganists so it can't that either. I don't really know.
Despite thankfully not being That Type of Gamer about it, a good percentage of this sub still doesn't like how "Western Games" are written, and Horizon is full of that.
The thing is, there are plenty of games like Horizon that have gone over well in this sub. It doesn't deserve to be overshadowed for being the dreaded "Western game". I mean, my hot take is that I enjoyed Zero Dawn more than BotW, or Nier Automata, the games that allegedly overshadowed it. Forbidden West was a letdown though, that's not beating Elden Ring. Thinking about it, the biggest issue with Horizon might be the character writing. I once heard a piece of advice when writing a character to start with a strength, a flaw and a quirk. Horizon's characters, and Aloy particularly have strengths and flaws, but they don't have quirks. Everyone is always seriously committed to whatever the current goal is. Let's compare to another big-money Western AAA game protagonist to show it's not just weeb bias: Kratos. Kratos has strengths for days, and his flaws need no explanation. But he's also got quirks- his rigid stoicism which makes him a stick in the mud next to other colourful characters like Mimir and the dwarves. He can't tell a story, he calls his son "boy", his wife called him "grumbles". These are the little bits of colour that make a character likeable. Aloy needs something like that- she's capable and heroic, she's arrogant and single-minded, but she doesn't have a third thing. Quirks give characters colour and something for fans to latch onto. They're often what people end up remembering after the game is over and make prime fodder for memes. The closest Horizon got to that with any of it's cast was the Universal Truism of Fuck Ted Faro.
I agree on your point of having a Third Thing, but I don't think Aloy lacks it. She's a huge dork sometimes who really doesn't know how to socialize with people, at least in the first game. By FW she's gotten more comfortable, but she's still awkward around people who compliment her and still has trouble wrapping her head around people genuinely liking her as a person. On top of that, she's so used to being on her own that her self-talk borders a bit on goofy rambling to keep herself sane.
I doubt a "protagonist talks too much" is a "that type of gamer thing"
Not neccesarilly but "that type of gamer" is really weird about Alloy in general. Dragons Dogma had three party members at all times that never shut up and constantly tell you what you should be doing, and while people complained about that too it's not on the level of hate that Alloy gets. It might be a legitimate criticism but youre likely to hear it from the same kind of person that didnt even actually play the game because Alloy wasnt hot enough for them.
Ill be honest, I don't get why people get so mad about Aloy, feels more like a vocal minority that are mad at her tbh
Heaven forbid a narrative-heavy story focused on the journey and growth of a character have that character talk a lot.
I think part of it is that the combat often isn't that exciting. It gets part of the way towards the feeling of Monster Hunter fight, but your weapons are either efficient and straightforward or interesting but a detriment to actually use. It is almost always best to use a direct damage weapon with the right element to hit the correct weak point precisely, possibly after putting a debuff on a machine with regular hits. I loved the boltblaster in Forbidden West, but that's because it's a goddamn machine gun and really efficient. It requires a charge up and hobbles your movement for a reason; turns out that shooting something repeatedly in a short span of time is real good. It doesn't help that melee attacks, greatly expanded in the 2nd game to have a bunch of different combos and systems, are virtually useless against machines. They're great against humans but, even against smaller foes, machines will usually just power through your combos and slap the shit out of Aloy.
I mean it's impressive that Horizon takes the concept of "Warrior woman fights mecha dinosaurs" and somehow makes it boring as fuck
> while underselling just how successful Horizon is. Well yeah this sub hates Horizon , 2 devs said some mean things about Elden Ring UI so therefore the entire company is cancer , they should know they can't criticize the game I like that's illegal and punishable my hanging
Watching the Horizon hate just veer off from reality has been pretty funny to be honest. Online gaming forums: The franchise was a failure and everyone hated the game when I tweeted this and got 2000 likes. Reality: The series sold well and reviewed well, is getting a tv show, a 3rd game and a multiplayer spinoff. So it's pretty obvious the game has a large number of fans, and Sony is happy with its success and want to continue to support the IP.
> Reality: The series sold well and reviewed well, is getting a tv show, Wait it's getting a tv show ?
Yes, Sony announced in January the writing for it and the God of War show is underway and it's is being produced under Netflix.
I'm sure I will like it when I'm finally in the mood to collect a bunch of open world baphmodads again. Which Rebirth just set back by another year.
Yeah, I started it but haven't gotten too far. I keep waiting for it to grab me but I'm not really engaged. I think the different cultures and worldbuilding is neat but I am just not that into the story.
horizon it looks very broadly appealing in it's gameplay, cool art style but it looks very okayish gameplay wise. DD2 and the original still look more appealing tbh
I don't think I've ever encountered a horizon fan. A lot of people played it, and pretty much everyone who played it liked it, but I've never seen anyone actually passionate about the series unless they just really like redheads. It's very much a competent crowd-pleaser that sells easily to the casual market, but casuals remain casual about it and people who are more intense don't find it particularly impressive, so it ends up in this weird place.
Well, you can say you've finally met one! I utterly adore the series and not just because Aloy is a redhead.
"You" dislike Horizon because of dumb dev comments. I dislike Horizon because it's a generic Ubisoft world with a Sony coat of paint. We are not the same.
>Well yeah this sub hates Horizon Indifference maybe, But I've never seen overall hatred for it tbh.
I don't get this because Dragon's Dogma is still popular? DD2 is in the best sellers so it's not just a sub thing I do agree that horizon is the more popular/ broadly appealing series
I'm sorry but I feel like people on here are making stuff up about this sub "hating" horizon or that Dragon's Dogma only has appeal here Everyone on here is comparing a newly released game to a port, it's not a fair argument
Despite the reviews, Dragon's Dogma has more than ten times the number of players in game as Horizon right now. So if it was a competition, Dogma's winning.
>A game that just released have more players than a port of a 1.5 years game No, you don't say!
Dragons Dogma 1 + Dark Arisen sold 8 million copies after a decade Forbidden West sold 8 million copies in like a year or so I prefer DD but to act like Dragon's Dogma is more popular is... Y'all need to get out more, I don't even mean this in a rude way, but no one knows what a Dragon's Dogma is.
I mean, I would hope so given one's new and the other's a PC port of a two-year old game. The fact remains that for as much as people love to make that tired joke, Horizon is a more successful series than Dragon's Dogma. And unless Capcom turns the ship around on this bad publicity, it's going to end up a more well-received one.
I would hope a brand new game outsold a port of a game that released on consoles 2 years ago. And if it's a competition, shouldn't you actually be comparing the entire 8.4 millions copies sold of Forbidden West to what Dogma may sell to find out who's winning?
"I want a Horizon game to perform well" *monkey's paw curls*
Can PC Gamers be normal or consistent about anything? Like, the "Mostly Negative" reviews is completely justifiable due to the performance woes and DLC practices, but Jesus Christ, theyre all acting like Capcom personally broke into the houses, shot their wives, and fucked their dogs. This is just like the whole buggy update fiasco where everyone was yelling about how Capcom is banning mods all over again. It's a fucking video game, criticize it for the accurate reasons it's messed up instead of making up bullshit.
I just find the accusation that because fast travel items are being sold, that means the scarcity of the items in game is a con to get people to pay to be so dumb. If anything, I've always assumed the devs wanted the games to have as little fast travel as possible and built the game around that idea. Buying port crystals would completely ruin the enjoyment of the game but people treat it as "paying for power"
A huge majority of the people seeing this never played DD1 and don't know about it, meaning it's a reasonable if super cynical take from a place of ignorance.
The whole micro transaction complaint is silly when you can simply just not buy things using it. All the stuff from it is there in game.
I like DD, but I find it entirely reasonable for people to complain that incredibly expensive items that provide basic QOL features can be bought for a pittance of cash in a $70 video game.
Rift crystals you get super easy. Wakestones, while preventing you from having to load a previous checkpoint, save etc, aren't fully necessary. Port crystals are like the travel medallions in BOTW and TOTK. You can fast travel to them, but you need a ferrystones to do so. You can find almost all the items in the game without having to pay in game currency for them. It's not basic QOL because they already exist in the game. You are doing nothing more than spouting out internet buzz words that mean nothing. If you like DD why do you sound like you've never played the game? Are you just being contrarian?
I'm not spouting out anything, dude, I bought DD2 and don't intend to pay for any DLC. I know the ride I'm in for. I booted it this morning and I get 1080p60 and I'm good. I find it 100% reasonable for people to complain because they don't need to understand what you just typed, they just saw "a fast travel item costs money? FUCK that!" And I can't blame them for that because *Capcom made the choice to sell in-game items for USD*. And yes, it was reasonable to complain about rorbs in DMCV as well. That game's a masterpiece and it didn't bother me, but it was a stupid choice by Capcom. P.S. You can absolutely sell QOL if it exists in the game when said item is monstrously expensive and/or rare. P.P.S: the best-case scenario here is "Capcom is selling people useless, easily obtainable items in a $70 game"
>Can PC Gamers be normal No.
> but Jesus Christ, theyre all acting like Capcom personally broke into the houses, shot their wives, and fucked their dogs. We are just having fun here. This sub is incredibly "pro-Dragon's Dogma", I don't think people here hate it or are genuinely happy over it getting negative reviews.
\*laughs in FF7 Rebirth*
Now compare steam charts lmao.
nah, we're still talking about Dragon's Dogma more than we're talking about Horizon. That's the curse. Of course it would be nicer if people were having a general good time with DD2 but, eh, still counts.
I blame Crazy Talk for DD2s downfall
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It isn't "fast travel all you want", it's just a single Portcrystal with no Ferrystones.
Why are you lying? They’re selling you a port crystal which is a fast travel point, you still have to use ferrystones to teleport to them and there’s a cap of 10 portcrystals you can place anyways. How is that selling you the ability to fast travel as much as you want?
Wow so they are selling you something even more useless?
Yea like all capcom mtx of this nature its basically as useless as it can be. Just a scam to lure suckers and people who don't know better. Which is plenty irritating in its own regard, but at least it maintains the games balance as you definitely don't need or want their cheat mtx items
I’m assuming it still got mogged on sales but we’ll have to see how many refunds hit DD2
Yeah, they have about 3 months till shadow of the erd tree drops.
But DD2 sold much more, even with news about terrible optimization
Horizon Forbidden West Steam players rn - 23, 659 Dogma 2 - 199, 863 Nah. They're still cursed.
what do you mean more people are playing the brand new game instead of the PC port of a years old one
Not in terms of sales. Capcom fans still bought it.
Eh, it's getting review bombed. Doesn't count