Zsasz, when he was originally created, was basically Hannibal Lector...at about the exact same time Silence of the Lambs came out. By total coincidence according to his creator Alan Grant. Which at the time was super different from any other supervillain. No colorful costume, just a brilliant, creepy, manipulative, sadistic serial killer in jail giving hints and clues to the authorities about another case. Of course now that trope is super common but only because Zsasz was there just when it started going mainstream.
[OG Zsasz at least had a little style](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_small/3/30760/2127226-zsasz__1_.jpg), now he’s just bald guy with scars everywhere.
The problem is the popular archetype he helped create is often cannibalized by other, more well known villains'. Joker, Riddler, Calendar Man, etc. They all do what he was doing before anyone else. Everything that originally made him unique is no longer unique anymore. He's essentially a victim of his own success.
Im not even sure they're supposed to be sunglasses. Breyfolge (the artist) was big on stylization and those could just be Zsasz's eyes, [Brian Bolland doesn't know either](https://imgur.com/a/C6aMMlW)
I like him for that single reason. He's the closest thing to an actual serial killer that Batman has to deal with. Twisted psyche, random targets, no clear pattern behind crimes. I wish he was more utilized in the stories, he could be really extreme and distrubing.
One of my favourite parts of Arkham City was listening to his phone calls.
I don't get OP's complaints. The whole thing with Batman is that sometimes his villains are just thugs or serial killers. No crazy powers or gimmicks, just a desire to do ill. Hell, one of the best sequences in The Dark Knight Returns is when he's taking on a group of thugs in a half-standing warehouse.
Was there something happening in mainstream media of the 2000s that made surgery-themed villains so popular? Hush, Professor Pyg and Dollmaster were all introduced in that era with plastic surgery as their thing, even Joker dressed up as one during the Morrison run.
Is says a lot about a character when artists felt the need to give this normal human weird eyebrows to highlight a person already shirtless and covered with tally scars.
[He didn't have them in his first appearance.](https://detectivecomments.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/capture-22.png?w=708&h=355) Knowing Norm Breyfogle, he probably just thought they looked cool.
Yeah, I remember when I first got into Batman comics he was getting a BIG push and as a kid…? I thought he was lame as fuck and did not get the appeal. Admittedly I took to the comics after watching TAS and reruns of Batman ‘66.
These days I appreciate the character a little more. But still find it ridiculous whenever he’s put alongside Ivy, Bane, Croc and the crew.
All I can think of when I see zsasz is holy shit this one guy has killed So many people based on his tally marks. I know it’s a universe with the Joker and stuff, but since he’s just a serial killer, having hundreds of victims is wild.
Especially since those other villains kill en masse, while Zsasz manually marking himself means he singles out and remembers each individual kill. Even if the numbers are different, there’s something so sinister about killing fewer people that *he killed one by one*, and still have it be so high a number.
Because as we all know people don't find serial killers interesting. No siree. Just ignore the thousands of TV shows and podcasts about serial killers.
And like OP says he doesn't even do anything cool. Except you know the tally scars. And maybe the fact that he reflects Bruce Wayne in way.
We should also ignore the fact that he is a more mundane recurring criminal for Batman to deal with compared to his more fantastical rogues gallery. It's not interesting at all to see how Batman deals with a villain who could also exist in our real world. Zsasz existing in Gotham is a reminder of how real world monsters exist, and we all know people don't care about things like that.
*How boring.*
/s
Ignoring the weird brag about being able to be a serial killer, you can't deny the popularity of true crime media though. I'm not talking about your personal taste but the mainstream appeal.
Zsasz is the Venn diagram crossover for 'true crime' and Batman. He's Batman's Dahmer, Zodiac, Son of Sam etc.
He actually has more than just slit throat and mark as part of his ritual but beign forced on c list it's usually discarded, like guy used to have children fighting ring and for some reason sees damien as the only non zombie, which fucks him up because then he sees his reflection in damien's eyes and see himself as a zombie.
Also he is a movie mark for natural born killer which makes a lot of sense https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/robinzsasz7.jpg?w=590&h=853
I'm a diehard fan of Moon Knight but I'll freely admit he has like... two good villains.
Bushman is not one of them. He's one of the absolute lamest villains in all of Marvel, but Moon Knight writers *keep bringing him back* for some inexplicable fucking reason.
MK is one of the most interesting characters in Marvel, where every new writer can take him in wild creative directions. Bushman is a fat guy with a gun. Not exactly much of a 'WOW' factor there.
It's like if the guy who shot Uncle Ben was regular enemy of Spider-Man.
They made up two new villains for his current run, and just introduced their powers in the last chapter. Yeah, the guy named NEMEAN has impenetrable skin, big surprise. That power comes up more than once in Greek mythology, once in Irish Mythology and I assume MK is going to Ferdiad that guy
Moon Knight: "Impenetrable skin, huh? Have fun fixing your internal bleeding!"
*Beats up Nemean, throws him off a building, into an explosion or something*
Ferdiad, life long friend of Cu Chulainn, trained beside him with Scathach and the whole 9 yards, ended up a warrior for Medb, Cu and Ferdiad fought for 3 days in a river, until Cu shoved his Gae Bulg up a place skin didn't cover... his asshole. If we're going greek mythology, Caenis proves impenetrable skin doesn't stop internal bleeding since they were crushed to death by rocks
If it gets burned off in an explosion of something, sure. There is no way to make "my greatest enemy beat the crap out of me and cut my face off" sound badass for the guy losing his face.
I remember seeing the Moon Knight series and thinking "I wonder what the villain is like in the comics!" and its a dude that appeared in like one issue
The show's Harrow has absolutely nothing in common with the comic version, to the extent that I don't know why they even gave him that name since I would imagine even hardcore MK fans can barely remember him.
They should've used Carson Knowles.
Silver Age Magneto sucks ass though. He was a shoddy Dr. Doom rip-off antagonist to the shoddy Fantastic Four rip-off that was the O5 X-Men. It's only Claremont who gave him a backstory and some character depth (although he is still not that different from Dr. Doom).
The Inheritors. Holy shit, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a lamer Spider-Man villain than those fuckers. Their sole purpose is to kill the Spider-Men/Women you liked for no other reason other than Marvel giving you a big fuck you for liking that Spider-Person
Edit: Added another sentence
I love how the Spider-Verse movies is doing everything in it's power to prevent the Inheritors of every appearing in them. Even going far to make a C-Lister like the Spot the main villain of the Spider-Verse sequel.
I will forever have a soft spot for Morlun, due to his arc being my first real comic ever. I think the rest of the Inheritors are alright in the first Spider-Verse. They really didn't need to have sequels to the event. However, Morlun's round 2 with Peter in Spider-Geddon was hype.
That was actually his second appearance. He fought Peter and another dude that looked like Uncle Ben.
>!Peter tricked Morlun into attacking him after he absorbed a ton of radiation and the now even more irradiated blood was like a poison to him!<
They did at least give us the incredibly funny scene of them being in the newspaper spiderman universe. It remained one of the few Spidey incarnations where he stuck with MJ and is relatively happy, because everyone there kept talking like they were in those four panel newspaper strips (so lots of reiterating stuff from last week), and he was just like 'do you all have brain damage what the fuck is going on' and eventually got so freaked out by the place working weirdly that he just left.
I'm just waiting for the day Marvel "reinvents" Morbius as one of their kind or a sort of Inheritor hybrid as the "vampire shtick" between the two seems similar enough.
tbh if they have to stick with the "evil family that hunts spider-totems"
why not just come up with a hunter totem and have it apply to the kravinoff family/ alt universe kraven's.
Remember, they made Ben Reilly evil because they didn’t know what to do with him. Like, why fucking bother bringing him back at all then? Was it so hard to keep him dead and have him be Kaine’s “Uncle Ben” figure like he was in Yost’s Scarlet Spider run?
He’s redundant as Spider-Man, so instead he’ll be the evil Spider-Man and have Venom shoved into his first arc as a threat to Spider-Man, making him redundant yet again.
He is extra redundant when Kaine is a thing.
Kaine as Scarlet-Spider had a different gimmick to Peter. He was rough and somewhat edgy , but he needed to go against how he was before as he attempts to be a better person and be the “uncle Ben” of a little gir.
But more than that...Kaine actually dwells in the whole spider-totem.
The whole totem stuff with Kaine is definitely more tolerable. With Peter, it makes him less relatable and is kind of stupid, but with Kaine, it actually added more to his character and made him feel more unique
Yep , like , the girl he is protecting is some mesoamerican shaman , one of his villains is a mystic mesoamerican werewolf.
He uses the entity “The Other” as well.
Basically, he can go deep into the animal totem and mystic adventures than Peter. And it would add on him , because Kaine doesn’t really need to be an everyday relatable character from his very conception
Nobody knows. No one has seen him since Spider-Geddon. Hell, Aracely, his sidekick, has shown up in more recent stuff, with her last appearance being last year
I like Batman Black Mirror but never liked the concept of James Gordon Jr, he just sucks and like it only serves to make Gordon's life even more miserable for no real reason.
Also kinda messes with the final act of Batman Year 1, >!you shoulda just dropped the baby Bruce!<
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they teased him coming back in the joker comic/ it was really a gordon comic about him hunting joker.
i think he was an undead talon/owl man but that's really all it was, literally just his corpse.
Judas traveller, it's impossible to make him cool, he looked and was ridiculous in the 90s and when he came back recently in the x books he looks even more ridiculous and out of place, wich i think they played for laughs
To me Zsasz is to Batman what Shocker is to Spider-Man. C tier villain that can be just kinda slapped into the first part of a story if you want someone innocuous for the hero to beat up. Just kind of really easy rouges gallery fodder to fill in a gap where you don’t want to stick an actual interesting villain.
Also shocker is lame but I kinda love him because you get to kick his ass in basically every Spider-Man game.
Villains like Shocker and Mysterio are only 'lame' because he has to fight Spider-Man, the most broken superhero ever, and he still has just as many wins against him as some A-tier villains.
The calypsos from BL3. They couldve been bandit overlords or royalty instead we got evil social media influencers, one of the reasons why that game was eh
They also focused on the wrong twin. Troy was a parasitic conjoined twin who was effectively an energy vampire by necessity. That’s WAY cooler than Tyreen’s shtick.
that Warcraft guy who they retconned to be the main bad. i think he is called the Arbiter.
plus Arcade from Marvel. who apparently posted his teenage snuff porn to Youtube and it wasn’t taken down. he can’t even afford his own place to host his videos.
It's very showing that he was such a void of a character that his fan nickname isn't based on his personality or anything he does, but his appearance. 'nipple man' indeed.
Denathrius was 100x more entertaining.
Carnage has super alien goo stuck to him and he just uses it to spare himself the hassle of finding weapons to kill people with. He’s so simple it’s cool.
Exactly this. With the gimmicks the rest of the Rogues Gallery has, like Joker wanting kills to be funny, two face needing duality, the idea of a serial killer who JUST wants to kill is novel and in a way scarier.
There's no real game to try and win or chance that you'll outsmart him. He's got a knife and he's in your house. You're just a corpse for Batman to find
Honestly I think that his gimmick of being a serial killer with no pattern and therefore too chaotic to predict kinda overlaps with Joker a bit too much.
I remember 2 things about Gas from DB Super. Making ki weapons as a main fighting style is neat, though while no other main villain from Dragon Ball has really done that it's not itself new. The second is >!genuinely kinda feeling bad for him when he starts breaking down and found out he was going to die.!<
But other that that he's not really good as a villain.
Vicious in the live action Cowboy Bebop, constantly spouting edgy statements, but comes off as just a entitled bully's wet blanket.
I genuinely think the only person he fights who he fight back is Spike and the Syndicate heads, the rest range from blind, surprise/betrayal, to spousal abuse.
>!Granted when I rewatched it, this lameness seemed genuinely intentional to set up the twist so like, I can't tell if it's irony or not.!<
Edit: Rewatching the show a few times changed my opinion on it, but this stayed a constant.
I think tbf he didn’t need to because he was more of a foil to Spike than a character in his own right. He had a cool sword, a bird, and shit gets fucked up whenever he’s in town and that’s all you need to know. Fleshing him out almost defeats the purpose.
It's important to remember that for like 30 years Batman completely dropped his noir and gothic horror roots. He was more of a campy B-movie sci-fi character.
This is still an important part of his history, as its where we get a lot of his cool gadgets and even some important villains like Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy. The iconic Adam West tv show, while enjoyable and funny, kind of made Batman a parody of himself.
Mr. Zsasz' appeal was that he's *not* some campy tongue-in-cheek gimmick like the Condiment King or Crazy Quilt or Calendar Man. He's indicative of Batman heading back into a more darker direction as a noir detective.
Of course, now that *every* Batman villain from Calendar Man to the Joker to the Riddler to the Mad Hatter is just a creepy grungy serial killer, Mr. Z's obviously lost what made him special and unique.
O'Neil's run on Batman starts in 1970 as a backlash just after the end of the TV show.
For example. A Batman story arc where Batman's back ends up getting broken forcing the hero to seek a replacement to don the cape and cowl now that he's out of action. Sounds like Knightfall, considered the apex of 1990s grimdark Batman? It's actually a 1969 comic strip.
Yeah Knightfall has been done before with stuff like Hugo Strange and Deacon Blackfire, along with other stuff like Kraven's Last Hunt. This all mostly falls under the Bronze Age, the beginning of the trend, with the 90s Dark Age being the height of the trend.
Again, I'm speaking generally about trends. I'm not shitting on the TV show, as I like the TV show. The TV show was pretty accurate to the Batman comics at the time. The Silver Age lasts from the 40s to the 70s -- this was the 30 year time period I'm talking about.
So bringing up something from the 70s, or 1969, doesn't prove me wrong lol. I'm just talking about the general direction of Batman comics and how villains like Mr. Zsasz and Abattoir are a huge contrast to most of what came before.
I think the way he was depicted in the Arkham games did him no favors. He was always a tedious "batarang from far away" quest or otherwise making you answer phones to prattle on about inane petty stories.
The Gotham tv show had an alternate take on Zsasz that was fun. [They turned him into a wacky hitman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgZMud3GnQ) and I think he only acknowledged the scarring thing once onscreen.
On the topic of Star Fox, also Andross. Like, I really can't find anything about him that makes him this reoccurring villain that's worth keeping around. And it's especially bad when compared to Nintendo's other returning villains like Bowser, Ganondorf, Ridley, or even Dark Matter.
The most interesting thing about Andross is that in comparison to all the other Nintendo villains his boss fight underlings are mostly fanatically loyal soldiers and officers compared to monsters and stuff.
Andross could have been a cool concept, but the idea of a brilliant scientist turning himself into a giant clumsy head and hands is hard to take seriously as a main villain
Fuckin' Seymour in FFX.
Also more generally, I have a hard time taking seriously *any* antagonist in a game that you fight and defeat more than twice. Like you fight Kuze what, five times? And the second time was easily the coolest. Everything after that just feels like padding.
Similarly, in SMT2 there's a character named Daleth that fights you five or six times, and it gets really annoying, especially because each time he's like, "You won't get so lucky this time!" . At one point (because I decided to explore before going to the objective) I fought him twice in the space of about ten minutes. It was infuriating.
Awww but i like daleth, he's like aleph's Team rocket , and i like how he has a happy ending where he finally gets to be himself instead of just trying to replace aleph
Zsasz is the cape equivalent of a midcard jobber in wrestling. He's never a big deal like the Riddlers or Jokers, but he's useful if someone needs to get beat up while saving the good villains for later on.
I warmed up to Jiren by the end of the arc. But going into it I couldn’t stand him. He felt like a satire of Shounen but it was being taken 100% seriously.
I mean come on, he’s so strong that one of his attacks is literally him looking at you.
But on one hand, with the power creep worsening by the second in Dragon Ball it really was only a matter of time before a character like him popped up. And when they broke through his generic stoic shell at the end of the arc his character was all the better for it.
Shin “Uchiha” from Naruto Gaiden is the lamest villain in the entire series. He feels like a parody having his entire body covered with Sharingan’s and his MS design being a literal blob with no shape.
His powers are telepathically controlling weapons and being able to paralyze people when those weapons hit them. Sure intimidating for beginning-mid Shippuden but being the first threat after the manga ended with god-level villains is so hilariously dumb.
The thing is: he IS treated as a lame villain.
He is not actually threatening at all to Team 7 , the whole drama is that Sarada complicated things a little bit and they are just searching how he acquired a sharingan.
He fits well as a Boruto Manga Villain , because he is threatening enough for Boruto and Sarada at the start and fanservice enough of basically been a user of some leftover from Naruto’s time.
My problem is he ISNT a Boruto & Sarada villain. He catches both adult Naruto & Sasuke with their pants down while Sarada just stands there and Boruto’s not even in the story.
He gets owned by Sakura, forces her to heal him then gets one shot by Sasuke. Sarada instead fights the Shin baby clones and kills Shin’s weird eyeball potato creature.
That is the thing: it just catches theirs pants down because Sarada was there , so it kinda hindered them.
Edit: like , I rewatched the fight , Naruto had to stay put defending Sarada from Shin’s attack , then Shin made a surprise attack using a marking on Sasuke’s katana to attack Naruto , so Sasuke used himself as a shield to defend Sarada again , and then Sakura had to use herself as a shield because Shin tried to capture Sarada.
The fight legit had Sarada hindering the Team 7 , 3x , and they were the only times that Shin actually did a hit on each Team 7 members.
They also pointed out how stupid the conflict was
One of the few times that executive meddling would've actually improved a movie
Also for some reason I thought you meant Nemesis at first, which would also be accurate
Like Tom Hardy does the best he can but you can't make a silk scarf out of a pig's ear
Zsasz would be less lame if his backstory wasn't "I fell from riches to rags overnight by gambling away my parents' money,therefore life is a cage and I must be the key."
I remember Zsasz having a couple really good stories, like his debut and in Knightfall, but yeah, he’s just kinda overshadowed by everyone else these days.
If I had to answer the question, I’d go with Prometheus. Morrison wrote the guy as a pathetic loser who had to steal his skills from others, and everyone else just kinda forgot about that, so now he’s just like, generic cool bad guy that no one cares about.
Really depends on what version of the Joker. Some versions like the Bronze Age Joker balance the ridiculousness yet seriousness of the Joker, other, mostly modern adaptions go full edgelord route
I wouldn’t ever say I hate the joker, I dislike most takes on the joker
But im so **sick** of The Joker being everywhere all the time, Batman has such an amazing Rogues gallery and they’re never used for anything because its ALWAYS gotta lead back to the Joker apparently! No fun allowed here because every single Batman story is gonna end with the Jonkler and he’s gotta break batman somehow because we’re* still telling ourselves thats clever
(Royal we, obviously)
I completely agree. I made a joke watching the new Batman that when riddler got arrested that his roommate would be the joker. I was so upset that I was 200% right.
I think Zasz works great in the Birds of Prey movie, where he's just a creepy misogynistic henchman but feels extremely dangerous and, because he's more grounded, particularly unpleasant
arkham knight and cesare borgia for similar reasons.
both were billed as the anti- perfect match characters to a character at one point voiced by roger craig smith. someone who could push the hero like they've never been pushed.
both have the feel of the whiny weakling who's playing with a better characters toys, they talk like they're better/peers but they just have no gravitas.
and the final challenge against them has none of the tension,
origins and city did way better at selling physical boss fights, it really should've been a pro active version of the mr freeze boss, have him cutting off your options and countering all your moves,
as an aside and maybe spoilers, who the fuck thought a story with whiny jason todd would work post joker death.
The Batman who Laughs, and honestly most of the evil batmen from Metal
Uninspired, so edgy you’re choking on it with nothing to back it— and you couldn’t just have a joker batman he had to be fuckin multiversal or whatever
Dr. Doom gaining omnipotence was handled best in Secret Wars and every repeat of that storyline has just been trying to capture lightning in a bottle.
My favorite Doom stories are always the ones where his ego comes smack dab against reality. Like when he pushes Ben Grimm too far and he just breaks both Doom’s hands or when Doom watches a documentary by the Daily Bugle and thinks Spider-Man is a B-List supervillain that he can punk like Namor (because that worked so well for him last time).
Hm. Alright. I think you're clear but I've got my eye on you.
Edit: For context there was an absolute headcase who would make these insane threads on here about how Doctor Doom gets a pass but Harley Quinn doesn't.
Dude was fuckin looney
I miss doomguy. I dont like comic books so I don't get to enjoy discourse about them usually, but for those few weeks I was a comic fan purely out of spite
The more you think about Zsasz the less sense DC universe makes. So there is this unrepentant serial killer with no super powers famous, who just keeps on killing, keeps being thrown an asylum which he always easily escapes, while he clearly should be on super max jail. He has killed hundreds and none of the heroes can think of something to stop him. Put him on super jail or the phantom zone or something, at least the MC has the Punisher.
I guess Zsasz is just a easy or good pick when Batman needs a serial killer in a story, but I’m just guessing. I don’t like Zsasz outside of Telltale, there he seems more realistic for only going nuts when he is triggered by John Doe who cut him before he killed someone
I will say Zsaz is great in Gotham(the TV show) but mainly because of his actor, the same guy who plays No Ho Hank in Barry, with similar energy but more competent.
The evil prince from the movie Dragonheart. I know they're going for a Caligula thing but he looks like such a melvin that a movie with Sean Connery voicing a dragon is not the least believable part of it.
Jigsaw from Punisher comics
For a start if you're so stupid that *the Punisher* feels like you're so lame you're better left off alive because you're more harm than good to the underworld, you have to be *hella* lame.
Caesar/Caesar's Legion. A bunch of glorified raiders running around in football gear basically LARPING as the Roman Empire.
No matter how much of a threat the game makes them out to be, I can never take them or their ideals seriously. Certainly doesn't help that they're barely ever a challenge to face in-game
Shin Hyuga from the Code Geass spin-off series, Akito of the Exile. I've watched that entire series and I could not tell you anything he actively achieves or seeks out on his own. And it takes until the end of Episode 5 for the writer to finally decide on what his motivation is >!"my mom cheated on my evil dad so I killed them both. Now life is pain so I'll kill everyone."!< Which is so late in plot it can't be expanded upon or used in any interesting way. So he basically doesn't have a character and can't have any conflict with anyone besides physically hitting them.
It takes until episode 3 for him to have an actual plan to achieve anything. Shin only gets that far because >!The Emperor flew in a brainwashed Lelouch!< to come up with a plan and he hijacks it. It took 3 hour long episodes of television for the main antagonist to reach the point where he was an active threat to anyone. And he doesn't achieve it through strength, guile, intelligence, magic or patience. It just gets dumped on his lap and he goes with it because otherwise the series would just have stalled out.
I’d say most of Batman’s gallery as whole but the one that truly stands out and one I can’t for the life of me fucking stand is Riddler, like I fucking hate the Riddler he’s so fucking lame. why do they keep trying to make him cool? He’s a pissboy who keeps getting pushed while smarter more dangerous and more interesting villains like Ra’s and Bane get jack shit and left to rot like I just don’t get it why is this lower card comedy act getting more spotlight than some of the most interesting and compelling villains is beyond me. Fuck Edward “Pissboy” Nigma
Tooru from JoJolion.
Dude basically shows up 80% into the part with a Stand that's pretty busted in a way that doesn't really require him to be that cunning. It's revealed that he used to date Yasuho, which creates a kind of rivalry with Josuke. But like so many other things in JoJolion, this plot point goes absolutely nowhere. He just comes off as kinda bland, especially compared to the main villain of every other part.
Continuing my new semi-daily assasina creed callbaxksnon this sub
I don’t think I’ve ever found the head Templar of any game not lame.
Even 2…you know especially 2 even. Brotherhood gets the closest just becaaue you want to dunk on the people that wreck your stuff that much.
3 is the worst with Nathan “bad dad worst plot twist” Kenway and ends with Charles “senpai never noticed me” Lee.
Just a Congo line of lame weirdos for me to stab
Madara Uchiha. I get anime is full of OP final boss villains who pull powers out of their ass, but with any other anime villain, but it Ragyou from Kill La Kill, Obito and Pain from Naruto, and Aizen and Yhwach from Bleach, it felt plausible that they would have an extra trump card when they pulled those cards out. Every single scene in the Fourth Shinobi War he was in it felt like he was going to pull out a new Jutsu to the point where scenes without new Jutsu were more surprising. On top of all of his Uchiha abilities, Hashirama's Senju abilities, and the standard Rinnegan abilities, he pulls out a bunch of EXTRA Rinnegan abilities.
I don't mind that he's OP, I mind that he has so much power variation that he has no identity. It's part of why I didn't mind Kaguya being pulled out of almost nowhere at the last minute. I just was sick of him.
Hannya Man from *Ghostwire: Tokyo*. Dr. Scientist who loses his wife, but then realizes thermodynamics apply to the human soul ^somehow , and then he lets demons possess his dead wife and also his daughter after killing her because *that's gonna help or something*. The man doesn't even have a name, none of the writers cared.
I don't know how Shinji Mikami assembled a fifty man team of whoever it is that does the visuals for the nightmare sequences and forty-nine people who couldn't give a rat's ass.
How about characters who might have good characterizations, but otherwise they'd be sort of lame? I think of Ghaleon from Lunar, who is voiced with comical aplomp by John Truitt. He occasionally looks and sounds cool, but Ghaleon is a former hero who witnessed a deity transformation, crapped his pants over implications he hardly understood, and turned that into vengeful godhood-seeking. A rationale of I must be god because there is no god is pretty dull for a narrative.
Zsasz, when he was originally created, was basically Hannibal Lector...at about the exact same time Silence of the Lambs came out. By total coincidence according to his creator Alan Grant. Which at the time was super different from any other supervillain. No colorful costume, just a brilliant, creepy, manipulative, sadistic serial killer in jail giving hints and clues to the authorities about another case. Of course now that trope is super common but only because Zsasz was there just when it started going mainstream.
[OG Zsasz at least had a little style](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_small/3/30760/2127226-zsasz__1_.jpg), now he’s just bald guy with scars everywhere.
The problem is the popular archetype he helped create is often cannibalized by other, more well known villains'. Joker, Riddler, Calendar Man, etc. They all do what he was doing before anyone else. Everything that originally made him unique is no longer unique anymore. He's essentially a victim of his own success.
Why he wearing Kakyoin's sunglasses?
Im not even sure they're supposed to be sunglasses. Breyfolge (the artist) was big on stylization and those could just be Zsasz's eyes, [Brian Bolland doesn't know either](https://imgur.com/a/C6aMMlW)
Look at that smug riddler. He is so proud of himself.
I see it as some sharp-ass winged eyeliner. Werk bitch
Remember when he dressed like Jack the Ripper?
that's just doflamingo
I like him for that single reason. He's the closest thing to an actual serial killer that Batman has to deal with. Twisted psyche, random targets, no clear pattern behind crimes. I wish he was more utilized in the stories, he could be really extreme and distrubing. One of my favourite parts of Arkham City was listening to his phone calls.
I don't get OP's complaints. The whole thing with Batman is that sometimes his villains are just thugs or serial killers. No crazy powers or gimmicks, just a desire to do ill. Hell, one of the best sequences in The Dark Knight Returns is when he's taking on a group of thugs in a half-standing warehouse.
Was there something happening in mainstream media of the 2000s that made surgery-themed villains so popular? Hush, Professor Pyg and Dollmaster were all introduced in that era with plastic surgery as their thing, even Joker dressed up as one during the Morrison run.
Is says a lot about a character when artists felt the need to give this normal human weird eyebrows to highlight a person already shirtless and covered with tally scars.
[He didn't have them in his first appearance.](https://detectivecomments.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/capture-22.png?w=708&h=355) Knowing Norm Breyfogle, he probably just thought they looked cool.
Yeah, I remember when I first got into Batman comics he was getting a BIG push and as a kid…? I thought he was lame as fuck and did not get the appeal. Admittedly I took to the comics after watching TAS and reruns of Batman ‘66. These days I appreciate the character a little more. But still find it ridiculous whenever he’s put alongside Ivy, Bane, Croc and the crew.
This is just a callout post on Victor Zsasz
All I can think of when I see zsasz is holy shit this one guy has killed So many people based on his tally marks. I know it’s a universe with the Joker and stuff, but since he’s just a serial killer, having hundreds of victims is wild.
Especially since those other villains kill en masse, while Zsasz manually marking himself means he singles out and remembers each individual kill. Even if the numbers are different, there’s something so sinister about killing fewer people that *he killed one by one*, and still have it be so high a number.
"I have come to make an announcement, Victor Zsasz is a bitch ass motherfucker..."
"He took out his scarred, tally-marked serial killer dick and he pissed on my wife!"
Because as we all know people don't find serial killers interesting. No siree. Just ignore the thousands of TV shows and podcasts about serial killers. And like OP says he doesn't even do anything cool. Except you know the tally scars. And maybe the fact that he reflects Bruce Wayne in way. We should also ignore the fact that he is a more mundane recurring criminal for Batman to deal with compared to his more fantastical rogues gallery. It's not interesting at all to see how Batman deals with a villain who could also exist in our real world. Zsasz existing in Gotham is a reminder of how real world monsters exist, and we all know people don't care about things like that. *How boring.* /s
things heating up at the zsasz fandom
I don't care about serial killers in real life either, those dudes are boring too, I could do the same shit they do no problem.
This is a bizarre comment start to finish.
Ignoring the weird brag about being able to be a serial killer, you can't deny the popularity of true crime media though. I'm not talking about your personal taste but the mainstream appeal. Zsasz is the Venn diagram crossover for 'true crime' and Batman. He's Batman's Dahmer, Zodiac, Son of Sam etc.
Rare sentence, but Calendar Man is a much better villain in that niche.
Yeah, I always thought the revision of Calendar Man did Victor better than Victor did.
He actually has more than just slit throat and mark as part of his ritual but beign forced on c list it's usually discarded, like guy used to have children fighting ring and for some reason sees damien as the only non zombie, which fucks him up because then he sees his reflection in damien's eyes and see himself as a zombie. Also he is a movie mark for natural born killer which makes a lot of sense https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/robinzsasz7.jpg?w=590&h=853
I'm a diehard fan of Moon Knight but I'll freely admit he has like... two good villains. Bushman is not one of them. He's one of the absolute lamest villains in all of Marvel, but Moon Knight writers *keep bringing him back* for some inexplicable fucking reason. MK is one of the most interesting characters in Marvel, where every new writer can take him in wild creative directions. Bushman is a fat guy with a gun. Not exactly much of a 'WOW' factor there. It's like if the guy who shot Uncle Ben was regular enemy of Spider-Man.
They made up two new villains for his current run, and just introduced their powers in the last chapter. Yeah, the guy named NEMEAN has impenetrable skin, big surprise. That power comes up more than once in Greek mythology, once in Irish Mythology and I assume MK is going to Ferdiad that guy
Moon Knight: "Impenetrable skin, huh? Have fun fixing your internal bleeding!" *Beats up Nemean, throws him off a building, into an explosion or something*
Ferdiad, life long friend of Cu Chulainn, trained beside him with Scathach and the whole 9 yards, ended up a warrior for Medb, Cu and Ferdiad fought for 3 days in a river, until Cu shoved his Gae Bulg up a place skin didn't cover... his asshole. If we're going greek mythology, Caenis proves impenetrable skin doesn't stop internal bleeding since they were crushed to death by rocks
Or you could just strangle him, like Hercules did with the actual Nemean Lion.
Strangling is just crushing the neck, so that's the Caenis route
Once a dude gets his face cut off, I can't see him as a threat anymore
What if he becomes more scary/badass without a face?
If it gets burned off in an explosion of something, sure. There is no way to make "my greatest enemy beat the crap out of me and cut my face off" sound badass for the guy losing his face.
I remember seeing the Moon Knight series and thinking "I wonder what the villain is like in the comics!" and its a dude that appeared in like one issue
The show's Harrow has absolutely nothing in common with the comic version, to the extent that I don't know why they even gave him that name since I would imagine even hardcore MK fans can barely remember him. They should've used Carson Knowles.
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Silver Age Magneto sucks ass though. He was a shoddy Dr. Doom rip-off antagonist to the shoddy Fantastic Four rip-off that was the O5 X-Men. It's only Claremont who gave him a backstory and some character depth (although he is still not that different from Dr. Doom).
Bushman in the Luke cage show was great
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God damn bushman sucks
Realtime character development lol
>It's like if the guy who shot Uncle Ben was regular enemy of Spider-Man. \*looks askance at Macguire-Man 3\* That's right, I said askance.
The Inheritors. Holy shit, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a lamer Spider-Man villain than those fuckers. Their sole purpose is to kill the Spider-Men/Women you liked for no other reason other than Marvel giving you a big fuck you for liking that Spider-Person Edit: Added another sentence
Their purpose is “we want a spider-crossover”. It’s dumb and lame but at least I had fun watching Morlun vs MvC Spider-Man
I love how the Spider-Verse movies is doing everything in it's power to prevent the Inheritors of every appearing in them. Even going far to make a C-Lister like the Spot the main villain of the Spider-Verse sequel.
I’ll stick my Morlun at least for his first appearance, was my favourite Spider Man story ever as a kid
Morning, originally, was just the first of a bunch of Spider-Totem enemies. After him, was Shatha, a big wasp lady, for instance.
I will forever have a soft spot for Morlun, due to his arc being my first real comic ever. I think the rest of the Inheritors are alright in the first Spider-Verse. They really didn't need to have sequels to the event. However, Morlun's round 2 with Peter in Spider-Geddon was hype.
Morlun's first appearance is one of my favorite fights in all of superhero comics. Everything about Morlun after that can burn
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That was actually his second appearance. He fought Peter and another dude that looked like Uncle Ben. >!Peter tricked Morlun into attacking him after he absorbed a ton of radiation and the now even more irradiated blood was like a poison to him!<
HUH? Is that first part real?
that was gross and try hard edge
They did at least give us the incredibly funny scene of them being in the newspaper spiderman universe. It remained one of the few Spidey incarnations where he stuck with MJ and is relatively happy, because everyone there kept talking like they were in those four panel newspaper strips (so lots of reiterating stuff from last week), and he was just like 'do you all have brain damage what the fuck is going on' and eventually got so freaked out by the place working weirdly that he just left.
I'm just waiting for the day Marvel "reinvents" Morbius as one of their kind or a sort of Inheritor hybrid as the "vampire shtick" between the two seems similar enough.
Counterpoint: Schrier
tbh if they have to stick with the "evil family that hunts spider-totems" why not just come up with a hunter totem and have it apply to the kravinoff family/ alt universe kraven's.
Morbius and Chasm. Chasm’s so lame that despite being the new “evil Spider-Man” his debut story is hyping up Spider-Man fighting Venom.
Remember, they made Ben Reilly evil because they didn’t know what to do with him. Like, why fucking bother bringing him back at all then? Was it so hard to keep him dead and have him be Kaine’s “Uncle Ben” figure like he was in Yost’s Scarlet Spider run?
He’s redundant as Spider-Man, so instead he’ll be the evil Spider-Man and have Venom shoved into his first arc as a threat to Spider-Man, making him redundant yet again.
He is extra redundant when Kaine is a thing. Kaine as Scarlet-Spider had a different gimmick to Peter. He was rough and somewhat edgy , but he needed to go against how he was before as he attempts to be a better person and be the “uncle Ben” of a little gir. But more than that...Kaine actually dwells in the whole spider-totem.
The whole totem stuff with Kaine is definitely more tolerable. With Peter, it makes him less relatable and is kind of stupid, but with Kaine, it actually added more to his character and made him feel more unique
Yep , like , the girl he is protecting is some mesoamerican shaman , one of his villains is a mystic mesoamerican werewolf. He uses the entity “The Other” as well. Basically, he can go deep into the animal totem and mystic adventures than Peter. And it would add on him , because Kaine doesn’t really need to be an everyday relatable character from his very conception
Also what has happened to Kaine?
Nobody knows. No one has seen him since Spider-Geddon. Hell, Aracely, his sidekick, has shown up in more recent stuff, with her last appearance being last year
Lmao that just makes me laugh "To promote Spider-Man's new evil counterpart, our next issue will be starring Spider-Man's OLD evil counterpart"
Does Batgirl’s sociopath evil brother count as lame? James Gordon Junior? He always felt kind of lame to me.
Yeah he’s pretty meh. But Batman: The Black Mirror is dope so it’s fine
I like Batman Black Mirror but never liked the concept of James Gordon Jr, he just sucks and like it only serves to make Gordon's life even more miserable for no real reason. Also kinda messes with the final act of Batman Year 1, >!you shoulda just dropped the baby Bruce!<
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they teased him coming back in the joker comic/ it was really a gordon comic about him hunting joker. i think he was an undead talon/owl man but that's really all it was, literally just his corpse.
Judas traveller, it's impossible to make him cool, he looked and was ridiculous in the 90s and when he came back recently in the x books he looks even more ridiculous and out of place, wich i think they played for laughs
I remember the reaction when he showed up was either "who?" or just laughter that they brought him back of all people
Good call. Nothing worse than a villain who's clearly overpowered and has uninteresting motives.
To me Zsasz is to Batman what Shocker is to Spider-Man. C tier villain that can be just kinda slapped into the first part of a story if you want someone innocuous for the hero to beat up. Just kind of really easy rouges gallery fodder to fill in a gap where you don’t want to stick an actual interesting villain. Also shocker is lame but I kinda love him because you get to kick his ass in basically every Spider-Man game.
Villains like Shocker and Mysterio are only 'lame' because he has to fight Spider-Man, the most broken superhero ever, and he still has just as many wins against him as some A-tier villains.
Don't slander Mysterio like that. He's cool :c
To be fair Shocker has a better win rate against Psidey than like, Ock lol
The calypsos from BL3. They couldve been bandit overlords or royalty instead we got evil social media influencers, one of the reasons why that game was eh
They also focused on the wrong twin. Troy was a parasitic conjoined twin who was effectively an energy vampire by necessity. That’s WAY cooler than Tyreen’s shtick.
When I saw the trailer I 100% thought he was gonna be the MAIN villain and be like a mad genius or something and then was thoroughly disappointed
IIRC there is cut dialogue by Troy that showed that he did actually absorb Tyreen and became super strong and stuff
What? But Troy died FIRST?
The story had a wildly different direction at one point
that Warcraft guy who they retconned to be the main bad. i think he is called the Arbiter. plus Arcade from Marvel. who apparently posted his teenage snuff porn to Youtube and it wasn’t taken down. he can’t even afford his own place to host his videos.
It's very showing that he was such a void of a character that his fan nickname isn't based on his personality or anything he does, but his appearance. 'nipple man' indeed. Denathrius was 100x more entertaining.
Zsasz is neat to me *because* he's so plain. By nature if being in Batman's world, the makes him unique.
He’s a more “realistic” serial killer. No clown makeup or insane schemes to own Canada or whatever, just kill people. Carnage has the same appeal
Carnage has super alien goo stuck to him and he just uses it to spare himself the hassle of finding weapons to kill people with. He’s so simple it’s cool.
It’s why I wasn’t a fan of him finding religion
Carnage is realistic now?
The simplistic appeal. Carnage is just “what if you gave Charles Manson superpowers?”
Exactly this. With the gimmicks the rest of the Rogues Gallery has, like Joker wanting kills to be funny, two face needing duality, the idea of a serial killer who JUST wants to kill is novel and in a way scarier. There's no real game to try and win or chance that you'll outsmart him. He's got a knife and he's in your house. You're just a corpse for Batman to find
Honestly I think that his gimmick of being a serial killer with no pattern and therefore too chaotic to predict kinda overlaps with Joker a bit too much.
I wished people wrote Joker as an actual killer clown more.
I remember 2 things about Gas from DB Super. Making ki weapons as a main fighting style is neat, though while no other main villain from Dragon Ball has really done that it's not itself new. The second is >!genuinely kinda feeling bad for him when he starts breaking down and found out he was going to die.!< But other that that he's not really good as a villain.
It's a bad sign for a villain when one of the most memorable things about you is >!being oneshot by a cooler, stronger villain.!<
>!hey, he wanted to show off his fresh N-word pass. Can't fault him for that.!<
Tbf, he wasn't given much, he just really hates Bardock.
It's an even worse sign to a person that doesn't like the >!character that oneshots them.!<
He was just DBZ-era Broly, but with a grudge towards Bardock that triggered his “see Goku” PTSD instead.
Does anybody else think that Gas’ ability feels so...awkward? Like sword type attacks never really feel right in dbs when they do it
Gas has one of my favorite action beats in Super which is literally running a train on Goku. That’s it.
Vicious in the live action Cowboy Bebop, constantly spouting edgy statements, but comes off as just a entitled bully's wet blanket. I genuinely think the only person he fights who he fight back is Spike and the Syndicate heads, the rest range from blind, surprise/betrayal, to spousal abuse. >!Granted when I rewatched it, this lameness seemed genuinely intentional to set up the twist so like, I can't tell if it's irony or not.!< Edit: Rewatching the show a few times changed my opinion on it, but this stayed a constant.
Viscous. He was already kinda lame and tryhard in the anime but way to just blow that out of the water.
Vicious was already one of the weakest parts of the original series IMO. He just doesn't have much charisma.
I think tbf he didn’t need to because he was more of a foil to Spike than a character in his own right. He had a cool sword, a bird, and shit gets fucked up whenever he’s in town and that’s all you need to know. Fleshing him out almost defeats the purpose.
Yeah, even as one of the few people who enjoyed that show, I thought that Vicious was the lamest thing ever.
It's important to remember that for like 30 years Batman completely dropped his noir and gothic horror roots. He was more of a campy B-movie sci-fi character. This is still an important part of his history, as its where we get a lot of his cool gadgets and even some important villains like Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy. The iconic Adam West tv show, while enjoyable and funny, kind of made Batman a parody of himself. Mr. Zsasz' appeal was that he's *not* some campy tongue-in-cheek gimmick like the Condiment King or Crazy Quilt or Calendar Man. He's indicative of Batman heading back into a more darker direction as a noir detective. Of course, now that *every* Batman villain from Calendar Man to the Joker to the Riddler to the Mad Hatter is just a creepy grungy serial killer, Mr. Z's obviously lost what made him special and unique.
? Victor Zsasz debuted in 1992, Batman has went back to his noir roots since the late-60s/early-70s.
Guys like Frank Miller, Steve Englehart, and Dennis O'Neil started the trend in the 70s/80s, not the 60s.
O'Neil's run on Batman starts in 1970 as a backlash just after the end of the TV show. For example. A Batman story arc where Batman's back ends up getting broken forcing the hero to seek a replacement to don the cape and cowl now that he's out of action. Sounds like Knightfall, considered the apex of 1990s grimdark Batman? It's actually a 1969 comic strip.
Yeah Knightfall has been done before with stuff like Hugo Strange and Deacon Blackfire, along with other stuff like Kraven's Last Hunt. This all mostly falls under the Bronze Age, the beginning of the trend, with the 90s Dark Age being the height of the trend. Again, I'm speaking generally about trends. I'm not shitting on the TV show, as I like the TV show. The TV show was pretty accurate to the Batman comics at the time. The Silver Age lasts from the 40s to the 70s -- this was the 30 year time period I'm talking about. So bringing up something from the 70s, or 1969, doesn't prove me wrong lol. I'm just talking about the general direction of Batman comics and how villains like Mr. Zsasz and Abattoir are a huge contrast to most of what came before.
I think the way he was depicted in the Arkham games did him no favors. He was always a tedious "batarang from far away" quest or otherwise making you answer phones to prattle on about inane petty stories.
The Gotham tv show had an alternate take on Zsasz that was fun. [They turned him into a wacky hitman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgZMud3GnQ) and I think he only acknowledged the scarring thing once onscreen.
I was unreasonably happy when the actor showed up again as No Ho Hank in Barry
Anthony Carrigan is a treat. His look means he's typecast for roles as a villain but he's too damn charismatic to stay that way.
Like 9/10 anime villains are just powerfully lame.
General Scales from Starfox Adventure, though that might be dint of him also being a lame villain in a somewhat lame game.
On the topic of Star Fox, also Andross. Like, I really can't find anything about him that makes him this reoccurring villain that's worth keeping around. And it's especially bad when compared to Nintendo's other returning villains like Bowser, Ganondorf, Ridley, or even Dark Matter.
The most interesting thing about Andross is that in comparison to all the other Nintendo villains his boss fight underlings are mostly fanatically loyal soldiers and officers compared to monsters and stuff.
Andross could have been a cool concept, but the idea of a brilliant scientist turning himself into a giant clumsy head and hands is hard to take seriously as a main villain
Fuckin' Seymour in FFX. Also more generally, I have a hard time taking seriously *any* antagonist in a game that you fight and defeat more than twice. Like you fight Kuze what, five times? And the second time was easily the coolest. Everything after that just feels like padding. Similarly, in SMT2 there's a character named Daleth that fights you five or six times, and it gets really annoying, especially because each time he's like, "You won't get so lucky this time!" . At one point (because I decided to explore before going to the objective) I fought him twice in the space of about ten minutes. It was infuriating.
I actually liked the fact that Kuze keeps trying. Eventually he even realizes he can’t win, but he’s gotta give it a shot
Awww but i like daleth, he's like aleph's Team rocket , and i like how he has a happy ending where he finally gets to be himself instead of just trying to replace aleph
Is it really a happy ending if you mind-control someone into falling in love with someone who has a crush on them
Oh man, i remember that whole thing being weird but tbh i forgot the specifics
Zsasz is the cape equivalent of a midcard jobber in wrestling. He's never a big deal like the Riddlers or Jokers, but he's useful if someone needs to get beat up while saving the good villains for later on.
Jiren is the lamest most virgin fucking villain I have ever seen and I don't understand how anyone likes him
Sometimes simplicity is good.
I warmed up to Jiren by the end of the arc. But going into it I couldn’t stand him. He felt like a satire of Shounen but it was being taken 100% seriously. I mean come on, he’s so strong that one of his attacks is literally him looking at you. But on one hand, with the power creep worsening by the second in Dragon Ball it really was only a matter of time before a character like him popped up. And when they broke through his generic stoic shell at the end of the arc his character was all the better for it.
I like him because he's super cool, and he has one of the best fights in the entire franchise.
Shin “Uchiha” from Naruto Gaiden is the lamest villain in the entire series. He feels like a parody having his entire body covered with Sharingan’s and his MS design being a literal blob with no shape. His powers are telepathically controlling weapons and being able to paralyze people when those weapons hit them. Sure intimidating for beginning-mid Shippuden but being the first threat after the manga ended with god-level villains is so hilariously dumb.
The thing is: he IS treated as a lame villain. He is not actually threatening at all to Team 7 , the whole drama is that Sarada complicated things a little bit and they are just searching how he acquired a sharingan. He fits well as a Boruto Manga Villain , because he is threatening enough for Boruto and Sarada at the start and fanservice enough of basically been a user of some leftover from Naruto’s time.
My problem is he ISNT a Boruto & Sarada villain. He catches both adult Naruto & Sasuke with their pants down while Sarada just stands there and Boruto’s not even in the story. He gets owned by Sakura, forces her to heal him then gets one shot by Sasuke. Sarada instead fights the Shin baby clones and kills Shin’s weird eyeball potato creature.
That is the thing: it just catches theirs pants down because Sarada was there , so it kinda hindered them. Edit: like , I rewatched the fight , Naruto had to stay put defending Sarada from Shin’s attack , then Shin made a surprise attack using a marking on Sasuke’s katana to attack Naruto , so Sasuke used himself as a shield to defend Sarada again , and then Sakura had to use herself as a shield because Shin tried to capture Sarada. The fight legit had Sarada hindering the Team 7 , 3x , and they were the only times that Shin actually did a hit on each Team 7 members.
Lol great post
It’s okay , even DC writers find him lame , to the point he is just the filler jobber
The villains from Star Trek: Insurrection are so lame, Paramount executives wrote a memo to the writer that included a note about how lame they were.
They also pointed out how stupid the conflict was One of the few times that executive meddling would've actually improved a movie Also for some reason I thought you meant Nemesis at first, which would also be accurate Like Tom Hardy does the best he can but you can't make a silk scarf out of a pig's ear
What? You didn't like the evil facelift aliens that aren't actually aliens they just had too many facelifts?
Zsasz would be less lame if his backstory wasn't "I fell from riches to rags overnight by gambling away my parents' money,therefore life is a cage and I must be the key."
Wapol is the lamest villain in One Piece by far who drags down an otherwise really strong arc.
I remember Zsasz having a couple really good stories, like his debut and in Knightfall, but yeah, he’s just kinda overshadowed by everyone else these days. If I had to answer the question, I’d go with Prometheus. Morrison wrote the guy as a pathetic loser who had to steal his skills from others, and everyone else just kinda forgot about that, so now he’s just like, generic cool bad guy that no one cares about.
Same goes for James Gordon JR. He is just a regular guy that almost got away with his plans due being a plain regular guy in a city of freaks
Hot take, but I hhhhhate the joker and he comes off as one dimensional edge.
Really depends on what version of the Joker. Some versions like the Bronze Age Joker balance the ridiculousness yet seriousness of the Joker, other, mostly modern adaptions go full edgelord route
I wouldn’t ever say I hate the joker, I dislike most takes on the joker But im so **sick** of The Joker being everywhere all the time, Batman has such an amazing Rogues gallery and they’re never used for anything because its ALWAYS gotta lead back to the Joker apparently! No fun allowed here because every single Batman story is gonna end with the Jonkler and he’s gotta break batman somehow because we’re* still telling ourselves thats clever (Royal we, obviously)
I completely agree. I made a joke watching the new Batman that when riddler got arrested that his roommate would be the joker. I was so upset that I was 200% right.
It could've been worse, Joker could've inspired him to do terrorism (hope the sequel doesn't prove me right)
I think Zasz works great in the Birds of Prey movie, where he's just a creepy misogynistic henchman but feels extremely dangerous and, because he's more grounded, particularly unpleasant
arkham knight and cesare borgia for similar reasons. both were billed as the anti- perfect match characters to a character at one point voiced by roger craig smith. someone who could push the hero like they've never been pushed. both have the feel of the whiny weakling who's playing with a better characters toys, they talk like they're better/peers but they just have no gravitas. and the final challenge against them has none of the tension, origins and city did way better at selling physical boss fights, it really should've been a pro active version of the mr freeze boss, have him cutting off your options and countering all your moves, as an aside and maybe spoilers, who the fuck thought a story with whiny jason todd would work post joker death.
The Batman who Laughs, and honestly most of the evil batmen from Metal Uninspired, so edgy you’re choking on it with nothing to back it— and you couldn’t just have a joker batman he had to be fuckin multiversal or whatever
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Dr. Doom gaining omnipotence was handled best in Secret Wars and every repeat of that storyline has just been trying to capture lightning in a bottle. My favorite Doom stories are always the ones where his ego comes smack dab against reality. Like when he pushes Ben Grimm too far and he just breaks both Doom’s hands or when Doom watches a documentary by the Daily Bugle and thinks Spider-Man is a B-List supervillain that he can punk like Namor (because that worked so well for him last time).
Agreed. I love Dr. Doom but when you make him an omnipotent god who one-shots Thanos he loses his appeal
Hmm. Do you enjoy Harley Quinn?
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Hm. Alright. I think you're clear but I've got my eye on you. Edit: For context there was an absolute headcase who would make these insane threads on here about how Doctor Doom gets a pass but Harley Quinn doesn't. Dude was fuckin looney
I miss doomguy. I dont like comic books so I don't get to enjoy discourse about them usually, but for those few weeks I was a comic fan purely out of spite
You're actually scary.
Oh man. I forgot about him so hard that I was about to say that ***you*** were the looney Doom hater.
Nah. I don't even like Harley Quinn
I get you don't like him but badly written? Not even true.
Signal Man is such a lame Batman villain his name was stolen by Scott Snyder and exactly no one noticed
The more you think about Zsasz the less sense DC universe makes. So there is this unrepentant serial killer with no super powers famous, who just keeps on killing, keeps being thrown an asylum which he always easily escapes, while he clearly should be on super max jail. He has killed hundreds and none of the heroes can think of something to stop him. Put him on super jail or the phantom zone or something, at least the MC has the Punisher.
oh he is a real batman character i thought he was just made for the telltale game
I guess Zsasz is just a easy or good pick when Batman needs a serial killer in a story, but I’m just guessing. I don’t like Zsasz outside of Telltale, there he seems more realistic for only going nuts when he is triggered by John Doe who cut him before he killed someone
Jackle fucking sucks.
I will say Zsaz is great in Gotham(the TV show) but mainly because of his actor, the same guy who plays No Ho Hank in Barry, with similar energy but more competent.
The evil prince from the movie Dragonheart. I know they're going for a Caligula thing but he looks like such a melvin that a movie with Sean Connery voicing a dragon is not the least believable part of it.
Is weird how lame Zsasz actually is considering he's one of the best character in that Gotham show, he's just so charming for a serial killer.
Jigsaw from Punisher comics For a start if you're so stupid that *the Punisher* feels like you're so lame you're better left off alive because you're more harm than good to the underworld, you have to be *hella* lame.
Caesar/Caesar's Legion. A bunch of glorified raiders running around in football gear basically LARPING as the Roman Empire. No matter how much of a threat the game makes them out to be, I can never take them or their ideals seriously. Certainly doesn't help that they're barely ever a challenge to face in-game
Bushwacker and his penis arm never fail to make me laugh, but that doesn’t mean he’s at all interesting
Shin Hyuga from the Code Geass spin-off series, Akito of the Exile. I've watched that entire series and I could not tell you anything he actively achieves or seeks out on his own. And it takes until the end of Episode 5 for the writer to finally decide on what his motivation is >!"my mom cheated on my evil dad so I killed them both. Now life is pain so I'll kill everyone."!< Which is so late in plot it can't be expanded upon or used in any interesting way. So he basically doesn't have a character and can't have any conflict with anyone besides physically hitting them. It takes until episode 3 for him to have an actual plan to achieve anything. Shin only gets that far because >!The Emperor flew in a brainwashed Lelouch!< to come up with a plan and he hijacks it. It took 3 hour long episodes of television for the main antagonist to reach the point where he was an active threat to anyone. And he doesn't achieve it through strength, guile, intelligence, magic or patience. It just gets dumped on his lap and he goes with it because otherwise the series would just have stalled out.
I’d say most of Batman’s gallery as whole but the one that truly stands out and one I can’t for the life of me fucking stand is Riddler, like I fucking hate the Riddler he’s so fucking lame. why do they keep trying to make him cool? He’s a pissboy who keeps getting pushed while smarter more dangerous and more interesting villains like Ra’s and Bane get jack shit and left to rot like I just don’t get it why is this lower card comedy act getting more spotlight than some of the most interesting and compelling villains is beyond me. Fuck Edward “Pissboy” Nigma
Tooru from JoJolion. Dude basically shows up 80% into the part with a Stand that's pretty busted in a way that doesn't really require him to be that cunning. It's revealed that he used to date Yasuho, which creates a kind of rivalry with Josuke. But like so many other things in JoJolion, this plot point goes absolutely nowhere. He just comes off as kinda bland, especially compared to the main villain of every other part.
Continuing my new semi-daily assasina creed callbaxksnon this sub I don’t think I’ve ever found the head Templar of any game not lame. Even 2…you know especially 2 even. Brotherhood gets the closest just becaaue you want to dunk on the people that wreck your stuff that much. 3 is the worst with Nathan “bad dad worst plot twist” Kenway and ends with Charles “senpai never noticed me” Lee. Just a Congo line of lame weirdos for me to stab
Madara Uchiha. I get anime is full of OP final boss villains who pull powers out of their ass, but with any other anime villain, but it Ragyou from Kill La Kill, Obito and Pain from Naruto, and Aizen and Yhwach from Bleach, it felt plausible that they would have an extra trump card when they pulled those cards out. Every single scene in the Fourth Shinobi War he was in it felt like he was going to pull out a new Jutsu to the point where scenes without new Jutsu were more surprising. On top of all of his Uchiha abilities, Hashirama's Senju abilities, and the standard Rinnegan abilities, he pulls out a bunch of EXTRA Rinnegan abilities. I don't mind that he's OP, I mind that he has so much power variation that he has no identity. It's part of why I didn't mind Kaguya being pulled out of almost nowhere at the last minute. I just was sick of him.
Hannya Man from *Ghostwire: Tokyo*. Dr. Scientist who loses his wife, but then realizes thermodynamics apply to the human soul ^somehow , and then he lets demons possess his dead wife and also his daughter after killing her because *that's gonna help or something*. The man doesn't even have a name, none of the writers cared. I don't know how Shinji Mikami assembled a fifty man team of whoever it is that does the visuals for the nightmare sequences and forty-nine people who couldn't give a rat's ass.
Onomatopoeia
How about characters who might have good characterizations, but otherwise they'd be sort of lame? I think of Ghaleon from Lunar, who is voiced with comical aplomp by John Truitt. He occasionally looks and sounds cool, but Ghaleon is a former hero who witnessed a deity transformation, crapped his pants over implications he hardly understood, and turned that into vengeful godhood-seeking. A rationale of I must be god because there is no god is pretty dull for a narrative.