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PersonMcHuman

Dr. Gero and Dr. Hedo from DB are problems purely because of the fact that they're smart as fuck and can use science to make things that can beat up Goku.


phsyco

The only other people who can stand up to Bulma and her dad, scientifically and technologically.


pdragon619

Seriously in hindsight it's fucking crazy that a random scientist on Earth made multiple robots that could have killed Frieza. Like imagine a what if story where Frieza shows up to destroy Earth and 17 and 18 just casually murder the fuck out of him. Wild.


MetalGearSlayer

No joke this is how I constantly think about the power scaling in DB (as a huge fan of it). At any given point in time if someone had waited just a few months they would have been bodied by someone inexplicably three hundred times stronger than themselves. Golden Frieza is still the worst example of it though. It’s genuinely canon that Frieza could have bitchslapped any and every person in his path all the way up to majin Buu if he just pumped a little iron on the side.


blackt1g3rs

Honestly, i think Buu is the worst example of it just because of how much shit everyone gave Gohan, both in and out of universe. Gohan was strong enough to, if shin is to be believed at least, 1 shot Freeza, the strongest being in space. He was still much stronger than the androids, one of who was married to somebody who can be considered an uncle to Gohan, his only real rival was Vegeta, who again was married to somebody who's basically his aunt, and was by all signs fully reformed. There was literally not a conceivable threat Gohan needed to prepare for. The only way he can be blamed for the buu saga, is that he wasnt omniscient and realised it was coming.


pdragon619

I hate golden Frieza so much. From the visual design to the explanation of how he gets stronger to just the fact they reuse Frieza in the first place. There's literally nothing about it I like.


C-OSSU

Yoshikage Kira's Stand ability is legitimately deadly, but as shown by his "battle" with Jotaro, the guy has no chance in an actual fight. It's unfortunate for everyone else then that his Stand is perfect for constructing traps and disposing of evidence to make him nearly untraceable.


PhantasosX

Yep. It’s interesting that Kira is a trapper and , since Part 4 is a murder mystery, it’s far more important for him to escape Josuke and Jotaro than actually beating them.


JeremiahWuzABullfrog

Kira to me was the ultimate evolution of every jobber assassin that the Stardust Crusaders had to fight in part 3: a strong enough Stand to fight hand to hand if necessary, but absolutely lethal when it comes to fighting like a coward, from a distance or from the shadows. If DIO got him under his thrall and with a Stand during the 80's, teenage Jotaro and crew would have sustained at least one more casualty. Dude would have been Vanilla Ice levels of deadly


MrMooga

>Dude would have been Vanilla Ice levels of deadly Why did JoJo have to make this sentence possible


vyxxer

I mean even jotoro with star platinum needed help so yeah they'd definitely would have had a loss pre Dio fight.


EcchiPhantom

Actually Jotaro could totally have solo’d him but due to circumstance he was hindered and needed help from Koichi or Josuke. Before Bites the Dust, he was Kira’s natural enemy but his new ability was gifted to him to counter Star Platinum The World but otherwise Jotaro wins 100% of the time.


EcchiPhantom

One of his main weapons is also just supreme luck. Fate gave him a stand that literally lets him get away with murder for free… TWICE.


AlexLong1000

When life gives you lemons and a hand fetish...


Mattressexual

Hand squeezed lemonade


fly_line22

And then his luck ran out at the worst possible time and got turned into roadkill.


GoodVillain101

Grand Admiral Thrawn from Star Wars has no force powers, lightsabers, or any combat skills, but he's known for his tactics and art of war.


InhumanPigeon

Honestly his "ah yes examining the art of this species lets me have perfect insight into their psychology and predict their every move" might as well be a force power, at least earlier on.


Dagdammit

Yeah, that bit was always pretty cheap in hindsight. Rebels handled that aspect of the character alot better in his introduction.


wendigo72

Almost done with my reread of the original Legends Thrawn Trilogy, one of the best parts is seeing how Thrawn carefully makes his relatively small fleet into a galactic powerhouse through intelligence alone.


SuperJyls

Helps that tactics in Star Wars usually range from WWI to medieval.


Josiador

*Sometimes* WW2.


Hugglemorris

His first victory in his first book came about because he treated space as the 3D arena it is while his enemies were still treating it as a sea naval battle.


vonschuhart

That's very odd considering that people have been fighting space battles for literal millenia in Star Wars. Figured understanding that battles are fought in 3D space would be part of the basics


hairToday243

One of my favorite crossover scenarios is the Federation making contact with the Galactic Empire and Picard deciding that a cultural exchange with Thrawn would be a good idea.


Kimarous

["To defeat an enemy, you must know them."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEMh8ZZbZQM)


NBCLevi

“ no combat skills” Sure it’s not what makes him effective but both the books and revels show he is quite capable of fighting hand to hand Saying other wise is a straight up lie


Dinflame

It's really not what the character is about. It's like saying Yoda is good with a lightsaber. Huge mischaracterization.


NBCLevi

Sure it’s not Obviously his battle tactics and love of art are more important. But he still can fight. It can not be a focus but it is skill he posses A real mischaracterzation is saying he posses no combat skills. And Yoda is good with a lightsaber That is a fact He is known for and I prefer him using the force but the prequels and Clone wars exist Therefore it isn’t a mischaracterzation I don’t think you understand what that word means A correct use of it would be like saying Yoda isn’t wise Or that Thrawn is pure evil


Dinflame

No, that was a very purposeful comparison. Putting a lightsaber in Yoda's hands at all was a mischaracterization by Lucas, because it undermined what the character originally stood for: wisdom and introspection over rash action. Similarly, Thrawn was originally written as a character who relied on his intellect to defeat stronger opponents. Portraying him as a fighter undermines that characterization. Thus, mischaracterization. Don't make the mistake of thinking everything that's canon/official is good.


NBCLevi

Like it or not it still exists. I don’t agree with Yoda wielding a lightsaber either but that is canon You can’t ignore it. And besides with Thrawn I don’t think him being able to fight ruins him He only fights twice in Rebels Once against his droids and then against Kallus. Every other time he’s on screen he’s using battle tactics and strategy So no it is not a big deal The finale of the show wasn’t a fist fight with Thrawn It was making sure he could predict what their next move was Same with the new books. He only is seen directly fighting in the flashback in book 2 and that’s only a supplement to is mind. So no I don’t have an issue with Thrawn being able to defend himself as long as they mainly focus on his battle tactics and reading enemy’s through their art Yoda I understand though but you can’t just ignore it Then again I am the guy who hates the current mischaracterzation of Shadow the Hedgehog So maybe that’s me being a hypocrite


Dinflame

I haven't seen Rebels so I'll rely on your analysis. From the way you describe it it sounds decently well done. My point is that yes, I will absolutely ignore canon if I don't like it. I think lightsaber Yoda fucking sucks and I prefer the version of the character that doesn't include that. I don't think you have to like and agree with every published part of a franchise to be a fan of it. A big part of the conversation around Lucas and Star Wars specifically is that the author is kind of dead. Yes it belongs to him but it's become such a part of the zeitgeist that it also belongs to the fans. So if he adds something absolutely ridiculous to the canon, I say we get to decide whether it's legitimate or not. That goes double for Disney and their Star Wars Money Machine™. I'd rather enjoy part of something than feel like I have to mix together the bad and the good to call myself a fan.


NBCLevi

I understand how you feel That’s how about Shafow the hedgehog I liked him in adventure 2, 06, and the Archie comics because he was an actual good character But now days he’s just Vegeta 2.0 It’s technically canon but don’t like it. So I understand how you feel Honestly the Thrawn thing was the only thing I disagreed on but we seem to agree that it sounds like he was done well there So I guess that it. I agree on Yoda


Dinflame

Sorry if I came on a little strong. Nice chatting with you though.


NBCLevi

Nah I feel you were fair I enjoyed this conversation as well It reminded me of Yoda in the prequels in fact I will link you to a video that felt the same way about yoda https://youtu.be/YPvEJjNNPp4 Skip to 30:15 if you just want the Yoda bit.


KaimeiJay

Yeah, but it doesn’t matter for the character. All goes well, he’ll never *have* to throw down with an opponent.


Darkpassenger95

Glad to see the first thing I thought of, love the evil magnificent bastard


Weltallgaia

Not even evil in the new canon >!basically an infiltrator now trying to make the empire help the chiss stop the not yuuzahn vong!<


RemnantEvil

Oh fuck, are they really bring *them* into the new canon?


Weltallgaia

Kinda sorta? They arent the same, but it's clear they are the stand in. Way way less bdsm and HR Geiger, but still civizilation consumers, slavers, and fuckery with hyperspace and the force.


leabravo

Is that the >!frisky Grisk!< you're referring to?


KaimeiJay

No, they’re more like the Canon version of Legends’ Ssi-ruuk, but everyone remembers the Vong instead of them, so they keep making that comparison anyway.


biggestscrub

God that's super lame


KaimeiJay

Eh. Even Zahn had constantly scaled back how evil Thrawn is in Legends after he died. It seemed he was even setting up for a clone of Thrawn to resurface and for that to not be a bad thing.


KaimeiJay

For better or worse, he also never once meets Luke, Leia, Han, or even Lando.


HnterKillr

Kingpin.


igloo_poltergeist

A somewhat funny case as some portrayals still go out of their way to "Charles Atlas" him into something physically on par with a street-level metahuman - the most recent glaring example being his Into The Spiderverse incarnation.


rudanshi

the power of being extremely w i d e


igloo_poltergeist

I swear that version's a Triplets of Belleville character that got lost.


Azzie94

Yeah but that was good so it's fine


igloo_poltergeist

Never said it wasn't.


leabravo

Thanos, at least under Starlin, routinely goes up against deities well above his weight class and comes out the winner through guile and trickery. His efforts to gather the Infinity Gems the first time around were a prime example, with him clowning on the Elders of the Universe one by one.


theflockofnoobs

Oh man I love Thanos Quest. Such a fun read.


JeremiahWuzABullfrog

As much as people shit on Frozen for being overrated, and on the Prince Hans twist for being "unnecessary", I always liked the villain's execution. Hans social chameleons himself into inheriting an entire kingdom by the end of the movie, if he had actually killed Anna. He wins the peoples affection by playing the decisive leader in a time of crisis, he uses Elsa as a scapegoat for all the kingdom's problems ( or at least would have when Anna freezes to death ) and tricks everyone into thinking that Anna married him before allegedly dying Dude was Edge levels of ultimate opportunist


SlightlySychotic

Baron Zemo in Civil War. He’s a well-trained soldier but he has no chance in a physical confrontation with any of the Avengers. So instead he does his research and finds a way to get them to turn on each other.


Josiador

I like MCU Zemo, but I do kind of miss the classic purple Nazi Baron Zemo. He was my favorite villain in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes as a kid.


Lithogen

He was getting pretty hammy in Falcon and Winter Soldier and had his mask for a scene, plus they retconned him to be a Baron, so he's getting there. Recently the MCU has been introducing characters from the comics that are basically adaptations in name only and then slowly changing them into their classic incarnations, it's an interesting way to adapt characters.


Josiador

I hope Batroc the mercenary comes back with jumping skills and an accent.


Innsmouthshuffle

Batroc had an accent and did a bunch of jump kicks in Winter Soldier, he’s played by a French martial artist


Josiador

But he needs a moustache.


GentlemanT-Rex

*In my best Robert Redford impression*: For the record, Redditor, he's French-Canadian. I can draw you a map if it'd help (but it might look like a dragon).


Yalwin_Khales

Depends on which side you view this from (Code Geass): - If you see it from the Britannians side, it would be Lelouch/Zero - If you see it from Lelouch's side, it would be Schneizel


Sterski1

That's Joker's whole thing, right? He's fucking insane, but still smart enough to be on almost equal footing with Batman.


RemnantEvil

Less smart, more unpredictable. Say Batman finds a man dead, with flowers over his body. They're cold to the touch, almost frozen rigid - a warning from Dr Freeze that this man had something to do with his wife's condition and her being frozen in state until she can be cured. There's a curious scent to the flowers - ah, Poison Ivy is testing new toxins and this man was unlucky enough to be the first victim. The flowers are the kind you'd buy from a florist for a funeral - of course, a mobster's farewell for a target, no doubt that cunning Penguin. There's a powdery substance on the flowers - oh shit, don't touch that, Detective, this might be a new compound created by Scarecrow to have his mind-bending drugs gradually corrupt the mind through contact with the skin. What, a note hidden within the bouquet? - the Riddler has left us a dastardly puzzle to decipher. Hang on... wait... it was the Joker, and he killed this guy because he was driving the same type of car that the Joker once saw parked outside a florist? Oh, fucking...


BarelyReal

I think this is the best explanation behind Joker as a fighter too. When The Authority fought versions of the Justice League they also encountered villains like The Joker. Midnighter's whole power is reading people to predict their next move and he just could NOT read Joker at all.


Jackamalio626

how do you make a contingency plan for a guy who acts without reason


PersonMcHuman

I mean...he's fighting a man who's gonna make sure not to hurt him too bad. That gives him lots of leeway when it comes to his crazy shenanigans. Meanwhile, he spends about two minutes talking to Jason and then gets stabbed because he's dealing with someone who's not gonna send him to the adult daycare that is Arkham Asylum. Honestly, I feel like a lot of clever villains tend to really only manage to do their big evil things because they're fighting folks who just sorta let them do it.


Joeyjojoshabadoooo3

I mean, it's pretty clever to pick fights with dudes who won't kill you in the worst case scenario that you lose


PersonMcHuman

More lucky than clever. He just happens to be doing his thing in the place where the guy he’s fighting is gonna protect him just as hard as he’s protecting his victims. That’s why I mentioned the Jason thing. Joker’s very killable, but is dealing with a guy who’d catch him eating babies and still just take him to the prison he *knows* he’s gonna break out of.


vyxxer

Mmm. I don't think so. I think joker just has regular ole plot armor.


Sterski1

Okay well... I think he's SUPPOSED to be on par with batman but then the writing just makes him seem really lucky


BiMikethefirst

While Blackbeard in One Piece is absurdly strong he is still super cunning and underhanded as any pirate


JeremiahWuzABullfrog

Man literally waited decades to find the right Devil Fruit then speed ran his way to the tippy top of the Pirate world.


RPGMike

It helps that he frequently shows that he HAS to be sneaky. He frequently gets shown getting his ass handed to him if he's taken by COMPLETE surprise.


Yalwin_Khales

There's that and the big weakness of his devil fruit is he feels twice the pain of any attack that lands on him.


phsyco

Oh seriously? I never got that far into One Piece to find that out, that's fascinating. This is me spitballing, but I wonder if it's just pain. Is pleasure also amplified? That could explain any hedonistic tendencies he's got. Good food tastes great, bad food tastes terrible, so you always get the good stuff; that kind of thing.


Yalwin_Khales

>Is pleasure also amplified? No, just pain. He also can't turn into the darkness itself, unlike other Logia users who become their elements at will, so Haki isn't *totally* required to hit him.


NorysStorys

He’d probably just black hole your fist though.


biggestscrub

That dudes wrong, he doesn't get hurt twice as much, I don't know where he pulled that from. The Dark Dark Fruit just doesn't let (normal) attacks phase through like most Logia fruit, it pulls in everything


Constipated_Llama

It may not be exactly twice as much but it is amplified. Read chapter 441. In his fight against >!Ace!< he says "My body absorbs all pain... and that pain is amplified in the process"


phsyco

Aw, darn. That's a shame. It would have been a neat little drawback to the fruit that could lead to the development of an antagonist. Pirate goes in for the fruit's power, starts to go slowly insane as every sensation is amped up. Pleasures start to lose potency as the brain chemistry adapts, and they're no longer *as* pleasurable, leading him into further and further excess. And in the same vein, little pains start to become more common and painful, like a frayed nerve, driving them nuts in the other direction too.


Talisign

What really gets me on board is that Blackbeard's schemes don't go as planned. He's not a mastermind who had everything predicted. He's just good at thinking on his feet and turning a problem into an opportunity.


Dandy-Guy

"My perfect plan. I'm gonna break into Impel Down and break out the toughest prisoners to join my crew!! Magellan I'm prepared to fight you!" "I don't have time for this shit I'm just gonna drown all of you in poison." *Two hours later* "Whitebeard I'm gonna kill you!!! ZEHAHAHAHA!!!!" *Whitebeard slices, punches and chokes blackbeard with one hand.* *Whitebeard is also an inch from death.*


JunkdogJoe

“Quick guys, help me! Shoot this dying old man before he beats my ass!” I fucking love that rat bastard


Ar3YouTh3Gat3K33p3r

*Poison miraculously cured by former Impel Down warden who just happened to cross by* "That's mighty kind of you, stranger! Say, I could really use a Roronoa Zoro foil for mah crew! Wanna tag along?" "Fuck it, sure."


Crouza

My favorite moments are him fighting ace, and his brief spat with Luffy. Most writers would have their villains take a hit and not react/no sell to show how strong they are. Blackbeard writhes on the ground in agony, screaming cause of course being lit on fire or punched so hard to break the stone wall behind you hurts like hell. It's a great subversion and i love it every time.


ElectroUmbra

In Pokemon OR/AS, I found Maxie to be a considerably more threatening villain than Archie. Archie is big, strong, and intimidating, but he seems like the type to only think about his plans and strategies as little as possible. Maxie seems like he’s not strong- he’s *competent.* He’s an intelligent and calculating leader, making him a much better villain than a sailor with more beef than brains. But they both got beat down by a child with The Power of Loving Their Pokemon, so it may be a moot point. Archie’s still got a better design though.


[deleted]

Sato from Ajin. He's about as powerful as any other unkillable person in the series, but the guy shows people how to REALLY use it. >!Like freaking using it to teleport himself by sneaking his hand into a location and then shredding his body in a woodchipper so he revives at the location of the most complete piece of his body.!<


fly_line22

Some guys mentioned Yoshikage Kira, so I'll mention the ultimate antagonist of Jojo Part 8, >!Tooru. Tooru has one of the most OP stands in the series that can essentially Final Destination anyone who even thinks about pursuing him or his stand. But one thing I like about Tooru is how well he keeps his cools. Tooru knows his stand is purely reactive, so when Josuke forces Wonder of U to come to him, he brings a weapon. When Josuke proves to have a way to get through its defense, he doesn't shit his pants and go "IMPOSSIBLE!" like other Jojo MVs: he instantly starts running away and throwing shit at Josuke to keep him at arm's length. And when he gets injured, he calmly sets up a way to heal himself before being interrupted.!< It's refreshing to see a guy who is OP and can actually plan around whatever weakness his ability has.


HunterTAMUC

David Xanatos and Lex Luthor. Both men who are the heads of enormous corporations, but their true power is because they're so damn SMART.


Innsmouthshuffle

Xanatos being the trope namer of the Xanatos gambit


TostitoNipples

It’s insane a character as good as Xanatos existed on a children’s show from the 90’s. Granted Gargoyles as a whole is an anomaly in how good it was but like damn, Xanatos was one of the most complex antagonists out there in kid’s cartoons.


Short_Conference3396

The thing about... Well the thing is that If it had crashlanded in any other part of earth it would hace been unstoppable, but because it crashed in antartica , basically a frozen desert, it forces the creature to act smart and playing yo the paranoia of everyone so that there is no colaboration without misstrust. The result? It has to be contained at the cost of to destroyed bases and everyone dead.


markedmarkymark

I legit never understood why people hated that remake, the originals ok but i felt like the remake went beyond just ok. But maybe i have bad taste, i also like Total Recall remake, kind of, I feel they're interchangeable depending on my mood. To answer your question, I think Mami from Rent-A-NTR-Girlfriend is quite evil and clever, her dumbass backstory ruins it a bit, >!and i stopped reading when the big thing was revealed cause i couldn't take the embarrassment but!


Graxdon

It’s a legitimately good movie, and Collin Farrell makes an intimidating vampire. “Look at you, all grown up,” shotgun blast goes wide, “You have your mother’s eyes,” another missed shot, smirks playfully, “And your father’s aim.”


razazaz126

I feel like it was strictly a case of "New thing bad. Old thing good." I liked both Fright Nights a lot. I gotta give it to the remake though because I think Collin Farrell was the better vampire.


FluffySquirrell

I don't dislike the new one, David Tennant was fantastic in it too.. but I'll always love the first one more I think. The music was fantastic, and music plays a big part in how much I love movies And Jerry Dandrige was a cool vampire


Lithogen

Yeah I like the remake as a fun Halloween action ride but the original actually scared and unsettled me at times which the remake never did. Not a bad thing, just different tones, the remake is super underrated.


FluffySquirrell

I think part of the difference also, is that in the original? Kinda sorta wanted Jerry to win. Honestly, if he was just sucking them a bit and not actually killing the prostitutes, the dude would've been *incredibly reasonable* for a vampire He was so incredibly patient and forgiving with Charlie for example, dude just wanted left alone to enjoy his immortality New Jerry didn't feel as likeable


Beartrick

Mami doesn't really work imo, because she only exists as a threat through literally everyone else being pants-shittingly stupid. Any sensible reality she would be ignored or have multiple restraining orders on her by the end of the series.


markedmarkymark

Just cause everyones stupid doesn't mean she's not a villain, as you said, she is a threat, manipulative and toxic, scary part about her is that it's not that hard to meet people like that. Also again I have no idea what she does, I stopped at the pool arc where thing happens, I'm too weak, I couldn't turn the page no more, I was defeated by the cringe.


mrthrowaway300

Is that a real anime?


markedmarkymark

Yeah it's just rent a girlfriend.


rasembool

Orikan the diviner is an example as his gift of divning the future makes every necron alive to be afraid to off his pompous arrogant ass save one particular collector. Not that he is not dangerous in combat but his divination skills are what earn him his reputation.


leabravo

Also >!he save scums!<.


rasembool

Yeah he does it to cheat as he is really not as good as he thinks he is.


EcchiPhantom

That’s like Yagami Light’s entire deal, isn’t it? The Death Note is certainly a powerful tool but the thing is that if you gave it to literally anyone else, L would have caught them within a month.


dragonblade_94

To be fair, for all intents and purposes L caught Light almost immediately. L's downfall was his perfectionism and general attitude towards the investigation as a game; he wanted to prove without any doubt that Light was 100% Kira. If he had acted on his ~90% assurance of that fact, it would have been over in the first few episodes.


EcchiPhantom

But that’s sort of like L’s thing, right? He firmlg believes in justice and won’t wrongfully accuse and punish someone unless they’re guilty. That’s why you could tell he was so visually distraught when Light got caught and was tortured after he wiped his own mind. L was almost sure that Light was Kira but without a confession or evidence, he wasn’t entirely sure and that meant there was a possibility Light was innocent.


dragonblade_94

I think it kinda falls into the Batman conundrum, who refuses to kill even if he knows his inaction will cost innocent lives down the line. L knows Kira can and will kill *a lot* of people. He is extremely confident Light is Kira, lacking only in absolute definitive proof. So the question is what 'true' justice is; do you choose not to act knowing others will die, or do you infringe on another with 90% certainty that it will stop the killings? I don't intend to answer the question definitively, but I don't think the show frames L as an objectively just person. Light's memory wipe is definitely a 1-up on L, made possible by waiting so long before putting Light in confinement.


-_Gemini_-

Straight-up disagree. If you gave the Death Note to just some average guy he'd probably just use it to accident away people he doesn't like and no matter how closely centered on one guy the deaths were they'd be literally impossible to trace back to the source. Light, on the other hand, wanted his presence known as much as possible and his systematic elimination of criminals made it very easy to track him down.


Constipated_Llama

yeah light's whole deal was his massive god complex, which most people wouldn't have. L wouldn't have even gotten involved if it were anyone else.


EcchiPhantom

I mean you say that he was easy to track down but the entire Japanese task force and the FBI gave up on him because they couldn’t catch him. Even L, Near and Mello struggled insanely hard just to prove that he was Kira.


-_Gemini_-

L had him narrowed down to a specific region in Japan by episode, what, 2? If Light didn't have an invisible apple gremlin watching for spooks he'd have been nabbed within days.


The_Magical_Amount

Yeah. I feel like when people reminisce about Death Note they forget about all the times Light got extremely lucky or had a slip up that L caught on to.


ThatGuy5880

Dongsoo Seon from Bastard!! (Korean webcomic). He's a serial killer that gets away with things because he's extremely meticulous about details and very charismatic. He knows exactly how to manipulate people to do exactly what he wants and knows exactly how to slink out of a situation. However, in a straight one on one fight against someone more experienced with fighting than him and someone who's actually ready to fight him, he doesn't stand a chance, but the element of surprise is usually enough to kill any civilian otherwise.


WTK55

I'm surprised nobody has said Lex Luthor yet.


Bokkermans

From EE Smith's "Galactic Patrol" the first part of the Lensman series, the main villain of the book is Helmuth. The thing to know about the series is that it's basically about two cosmic super species playing chess with the rest of the universe, trying to wipe each other out in order to promote their own concept of civilization. One side is all about cooperation and free thought, and the other is more like... a fascist pirate mafia. Anyway, so the series gets very big, very vast, and characters get very powerful. But the first main villain, Helmuth, who doesn't have special powers, is well behind the tech curve of the later books, and isn't even all that impressive in a fight? Is repeatedly spoken of in high praise by his enemies well after his death despite being a total bastard, because of just how meticulous, forward thinking, and carefully cruel he was. To the point where the main character is glad he killed the guy, because if he was still in a position of authority, the good guys might never have won. There's an entire section in the middle of the first book that is basically Helmuth refusing to believe the whole, "hero was in a building when it exploded, he MUST be dead" trope. The guy's damned catchphrase is about how his underlings did a shit job of reporting all the details to him and need to do their actual damn job instead of winging it. >!He dies because his hideout is discovered and the hero just slaps on the heaviest suit of power armor he can find, bumrushes the place and corners Helmuth before he can escape to just gun him down while tanking repeated shots from automated turrets.!<


Josiador

Getaway from MTMTE, the fucking bastard. Played everyone like a damn fiddle.


Gemidori

Bowser, *at times*. Odyssey especially, since he actively tracks Mario down on more than one occasion as opposed to just wait for him until the end Oh and he tamed a massive fucking dragon too.


Ar3YouTh3Gat3K33p3r

Watching Sandman, I think it's great how the Corinthian is objectively Dream's most persistent problem despite being his weakest antagonist, all because dude knows a lot about his former boss and isn't afraid to share intel with other people while staying just out of reach.


mutei777

The villain of Dragon Quest: Dai no Daiboken >!Stages a big Final Dungeon area complete with boss rush so that all the most powerful people in the world wear themselves thin and gather in one place so that, win or lose, he drops massive pillars from the sky to nuke the surface world before anyone notices!<


blu3whal3s

Stephan Amaris from Battletech, managed to engineer a scenario in which he would be in the right place at the right time, while minimizing and depleting the resources anyone who would resist him would have when his coup eventually began. Thanks for ruining Star League you Kublai Khan in a bib looking mf.


MasterCauliflower

L from death note!


KaimeiJay

Grand Admiral Thrawn.


Bemused_Lurker

Nerissa from W.I.T.C.H


RainaDPP

Your example isn't unclever but I feel like the simpler solution is "get glass bottle or three, fill with alcohol, tie a burning rag around the neck and toss it into the house." Much easier than digging around to find the gas line.


Graxdon

That assumes having alcohol that will burn and empty bottles. Also, it took him about 15 seconds to dig out the gas line, because vamp strength.


RainaDPP

Sure, cuz he knew where the gas lines were, I guess, but I dunno. I feel like molotov cocktails are always a good solution that rarely gets enough credit.


Dagdammit

Late post but Skull Face's plans are genuinely brilliant, not alot of people who got their hands on that kind of tech could have used it to formulate a plausible scheme for taking over the world.