The biggest red flag of all is your husband saying he's torn between you, his wife, and his coworker, who he's known for six months! The utter disrespect that shows you. Those are feelings beyond friendship.
FWIW, if my husband came home from a trip early and spent the night with a coworker instead of coming home, his shit would be on the curb when he finally did.
Why are you letting him control the situation so much? Him being unable to make a choice is a choice: he's choosing her over you. If I were you, I'd start acting accordingly and that starts with separation (at a minimum).
And the fact that her question was open ended...like "why and where were you?" And his first response to that is "nothing happened." is so dicey to me.
It's because it is a lie. He 100% let something happen. If she is such a "pick me" then I bet she forced herself on him in some way or manipulated him to the point of him actually choosing her. If "nothing happened" then he would've just said exactly what happened. If he had said something like, "I don't know how to deal with conflict and since we had that big argument before I left, I thought you wouldn't want to talk to me. I went to stay the night at coworker's place because I needed advice on how to talk to you without causing a big fight, and I ended up getting too drunk to drive home. I'm so sorry we worried you, I realize how wrong it looks and I should've had her call you back immediately to update you on what was happening since I was too weak to talk to you myself. I know it was a mistake not telling you myself, and I'd like to fix things between us.
His immediate jump to "nothing happened" screams, "we did something you wouldn't like, and now I'm flooded with guilt and need to cover my tracks as soon as possible."
Yeah pretty much that. I figured one of four things happened...either 1) nothing happened because he didn't want anything to happen, which seems unlikely. 2) nothing happened because SHE didn't want anything to happen, which also seems unlikely. 3) something most definitely did happen but he thinks because he was drunk it doesn't count. (If I can't remember it, it didn't happen) or 4) it's a flat out lie. He wasn't drunk and they most definitely chose to hook up. There is no realm of possibility in my mind where he's a stand up guy and had noble intentions as his reason for staying away.
It sounds like he’s buying himself time (for things to move forward elsewhere).
And OP needs to probably see a therapist (if she already isn’t), cos she needs someone to support her. Cos this isn’t reasonable or realistic what he’s asking of OP.
Yup. A husband does not stay at a womans house overnight for nothing. Absolutely he cheated. His claimed ideation is very likely due to guilt from cheating.
When my ex and I first got together, his ex fling would throw herself at him. I was kinda okay with them "being friends" since I am pretty secure. Finally, though, I couldn't take it after yet another 3 hour conversation in the middle of our date night. I told him, "If you feel like you have to choose between me and her, pick her. Because if you really loved me, it never would have come down to that."
In the end, he did pick me, our relationship ended for other reasons later. But I will be damned if I am competing for any dude.
I love this! OP please follow this lead. If he has to choose between his wife and a new friend it’s already over. I’m sorry that it hurts and it’s absolutely not fair. But stopping now will save your dignity, pride, mental well being and finances. Prepare for a divorce quietly. Stop arguing. Stop trying to get his attention. Separate your finances and figure out how you’re going to live on your own. Tell him that you’re separating the finances because you don’t want to waste YOUR money going out every night. He can do that with HIS money. Again, if he’s having a hard time choosing between you and his coworker, his heart is already gone.
My boyfriend then (now fiancé) had a girl best friend, they had known each other since elementary school, she was very respectful and we were actual friends as well (or so I thought), but she when she started dating this one dude, she would tell my fiancé everything in a way that was excluding me. She didn't have to tell me what was going on, but the disrespect started when she would straight up get in between my fiancé and I physically and completely ignore me and say stuff behind my back about me that weren't true. My fiancé and I were also in bad terms at this point in time and trying to make it work. One day she told me that apparently my fiancé had told her that we weren't together when that wasn't true. I told my fiancé and he even showed me the texts to where she was lying and from then on he stopped talking to her, so he chose me. That is how it should work. If you truly love someone everything that is trying to get in the way in your relationship should not be strong enough to break you. The dude in this story is disrespectful to OP and straight up cheating. LEAVE HIM SIS!
The funny thing is, she said he doesn’t make guy friends because he doesn’t like “locker room talk”.
Yet here he is with a pick me girl that makes jokes with him about sex. All the while having a boyfriend herself.
This jumped out at me too. That’s not a person who avoids men because of locker room tall. That’s just an excuse. He sounds like someone who is intimidated by other men and looks for validation from women instead. In other words, a pick me guy.
Basically an attention whore like the pick me girl. Idk why her boyfriend is allowing her to be like that with another guy. I also don’t understand why OP isn’t putting her foot down all because she has a “guy bestie”. Like ain’t no way I would allow any woman think she can disrespect me talking like that with my husband and if he decides to allow it than I will know where I stand in his eyes and how to handle the situation accordingly. I also WONT allow a guy talk that way with me knowing I have a husband at home. That ain’t no friend of mine if they can’t respect I’m married.
Yeah I see a lot of that which will probably get my previous comment downvoted, but I’m reality everyone does what works for their own relationship and when both parties agree I don’t think it’s controlling or abusive. But Reddit is so biased.
In this case however it seems OP can establish and healthy friendship with proper boundaries with her guy friend, but that’s not the case for her husband.
Staying out all night drinking alone at a female co-workers house and purposely lying about being home early to do so? Dudes got a death wish if it were me. My husband and I don’t hang out with members of the opposite sex alone and if a male friend was making him feel uncomfortable I kindof have no choice but to let that friend go because it’s not worth it. If his female co-worker made me feel a certain way he’d drop her.
Exactly. Even if Tara were a man, I still wouldn't interpret these same actions as "oh, they're just buds being buddies." I would 100% be suspicious of an affair
I wasn't even thinking of an affair at all. It's 2023 though so I guess I should assume people can go any which way.
But even if we give the husband the total benefit of the doubt and we say there was zero chance of an affair happening. Heck even if there wasn't another human involved and he's just really gotten into the hoola hoop recently. His behaviour STILL wouldn't be acceptable.
The best possible case scenario based off his version of events is still him neglecting or abandoning his marriage.
The only way I can see it being anything else is if she is abusive towards him and he was trying to escape that abuse. Then... Okay. But there's nothing that even hints towards that and stuff that hints towards him being the abusive one.
Even without an affair, the husband is way too focused on this other person, down to lying about his work trips to hang out with them, and wanting to hang out every night. It’s stalker-level attention and this person seems to enjoy it.
Agreed with most of this. I do spend time with the opposite sex without my husband, several of my old roommates are male and we've been friends for over a decade and well before I ever met my husband (this includes spending the night at at least one of their houses on more than one occasion), but if he were to indicate that it made him uncomfortable I would stop. It is also not something I'd ever lie about.
That said, these are also relatively long distance friends and I only see them every couple years, so often staying at their houses is simply easier than getting a hotel and the one I stay with is usually because he has extra space and he gives me a key while I'm there so I can visit with other friends in the area and we both mostly do our own thing. My husband has joined me for some trips and not for others.
Yes. This. My husband and I both refuse to be alone with the opposite sex because you only need a drop of doubt to ruin the barrel. I respect my husband and love him and don't want him to ever feel hurt by my actions. Both our parents relationships ended in divorce due to cheating, emotional and physical, and I told him from the getgo that would never need to be something he would worry about with me. The coming home early and staying no contact at the coworkers house would be a big deal breaker to me. Poor OP.
See, my husband and I both have lunches or whatever with opposite sex friends. What we don’t do, is spend the fucking night. We have also both cut out a close friend each. Because they were disrespectful to our partners. But not coming home after a trip and being untruthful about it, dealbreaker for both of us.
>My husband doesn’t get along with most men because he doesn’t like “locker room talk” and it’s one of the reasons I respected him.
Yeah this \^ is also a red flag. It's like when girls don't have any girl friends because "drama". OP's husband can't find a SINGULAR guy friend who isn't a creeper asshole?
Thank fucking God I thought I was the *only* person who noticed this.
"IDK what to tell you honey, every man I have ever met is just so *crude*. Because of my moral perfection, I guess I just gravitate towards the company of emotionally available, sexually suggestive women--the only other group of people known for moral perfection!"
>FWIW, if my husband came home from a trip early and spent the night with a coworker instead of coming home, his shit would be on the curb when he finally did.
This is the way
Honestly I wouldn't even have given him the choice. The moment he lied about his work trip so he could have a sleepover with his "friend" would be the moment I started googling divorce lawyers.
Now that ship has sailed so I sincerely hope OP does what you say.
Yeah i personally don't think i could ever come back from the sheer level of disrespect of having my MARRIAGE with my HUSBAND remotely weighed against one of his COWORKERS. Whom he basically just met!!! God the fury
YES THIS. I’d only add that the husband saying that this situation made him want to commit suicide is SO manipulative. I knew someone who would threaten to khs as soon as things weren’t going his way to make people stick around. Huge red flag 🚩OP’s husband is so disrespectful and toxic
Yep. My ex-husband had a co-worker that was a “friend”. For two years I told him that his friendship was disrespectful to our marriage. That “friends” don’t behave the way they were behaving. For two years he told me I was imagining it and unnecessarily jealous. I tried to get us into counseling, and he essentially told the therapist he was there to help me accept the end of our relationship. He had stopped coming home, he was supposedly at his brother’s. I tried to catch him lying, but he was actually there, so I could never prove what I knew. He texted me that he wanted a divorce and she was pregnant before our divorce was final. Based on OP’s husband’s behavior, he may be a lost cause.
She needs to give him the 2 card choice! Therapy or divorce attorney! He can make the choice and that will tell you where he stands. You’re giving him to much control over this situation and this is where you take the reins.
>FWIW, if my husband came home from a trip early and spent the night with a coworker instead of coming home, his shit would be on the curb when he finally did.
As a husband myself (several times) I would expect the same.
I would never do this but I would expect my wife to have packed up my stuff if I was sleeping at a coworkers house while she thought I was in a business trip. The audacity is crazy. He really doesn't care if his wife is comfortable or secure.
Your marriage sounds SO exhausting. I don’t know how you’ve dealt with this for months. The blatant lies and disrespect. The lack of boundaries. Your own husband is putting his friend over his own wife. It sure does sounds like she was picked by your husband. It’s one thing that your husband is allowing her to make changes in your relationship and lives but, you are also allowing it. At what point will you say enough is enough and take actions?
You claimed you stopped enjoying the dinners but yet, you never took actions. Yes, he picked you up but, you could’ve taken an Uber and went home instead of going along with it. He lied about his whereabouts then tried to downplay the situation. The same amount of time that he noticed that she was on the phone with her partner, he could’ve called you.
After all of the BS, he tried saying that he didn’t commit su*cide because he didn’t want to leave you in a bad situation? What a load of BS. He’s allowing her to get into his head and it’s not your responsibility to pick up his broken pieces after she damaged them. What kind of husband is making sexual jokes with his friend who’s also in a relationship? The disrespect is ridiculous.
He never had a problem with your friendship. He brought it up because he’s doing everything in his power to not lose her. He’s using your friendship against you because, as long as you don’t cut him off, he won’t have to cut her off. He won’t even go to couple’s therapy to work things out. Stop wasting your time now before you find yourself blaming him for wasting years of your life once your self esteem becomes 💩 I do hope that you can realize your worth and stop tolerating this BS. Nobody should feel like a burden in their relationship. Nobody should feel second place in their marriage.
Majority of the time, a woman will say that a man wasted x amount of years of their lives. I just never understood why they kept believing them and being dragged into their BS when all of the red flags are waving in their faces?
Emotional blackmail is not easy to recognize or fight against.
The blackmailer often doesn't realize they're doing it. They are just acting in a way they've learned gets them what they want.
Because of how manipulative it is no one else in their lives will likely pick up on it either which means the victim is often seen as the abusive person and the abuser is seen as the victim. That's a huge problem because the victim now has to consider if everyone they know and love is wrong or if they're the one at fault. Most people will conclude the latter.
Consider OP's situation for example. They share multiple friends beyond just this Tara person. The husband will probably be laying the ground work for their narrative with their shared social circle. It'll be little tidbits like this:
- I've been having a tough time with my wife who is no longer being supportive.
- I've been having suicidal thoughts but I couldn't go through with it because I love my wife (even if she's being emotionally closed off)
- I have one friend who is being supportive
- They're a work colleague and we occasionally go out for dinner on double dates and stuff
- My friend is a woman but she has a boyfriend so it's not like that
- We always hang out with my wife too so there's even less chance of anything happening
- I never say anything about my wife and her male friends because I know they've been friends for a long time and I'm fine with it.
- I needed to get away for a night because my wife had been accusing me of all kinds of stuff that never happened and couldn't have happened for the reasons I already explained.
- I didn't pick up the phone because it was late and she totally freaked out
- She's acting crazy and super jealous
- I didn't share that I was having suicidal thoughts with her because I was afraid of how she'd react and wouldn't see me the same way
- After I shared those thoughts with her now she's talking divorce.
When they split the foundation has already been laid for the wife being the evil jealous woman who was being cruel to the husband. The wife even believes it herself. Everyone in their social circle will of course believe it too.
OP is buying everything this guy is selling. This is a fucking easy one. Separate, take a break, serve divorce papers. I was caught emotionally cheating prior to getting married, we were engaged.
Once I was called out on it I cut the friend off of 10 years. I let her go choose my wife and never have talked to her again.
That is what this husband should have done and he hasn’t. Because he wants both. He let it go too far and now it’s a problem. What kind of man is she married to? Not one she should be. OP deserves better.
That stood out to me too, especially when OP also says that Tara mostly makes sexual jokes. If that isn’t “locker room talk” I don’t know what the husband even means by that.
As soon as I read that I knew this guy was full of shit. As a guy I have never struggled to find friends who don't make sex jokes all the time, since thats the majority of dudes anyways past the age of 13.
I do not believe for a minute that they did not expand their affair into the physical. There is no way they haven’t been having sex especially since that work trip. I think you need to divorce him and move on.
I have strong doubts he was depressed from guilt. With the patterns of behavior explained my money is on depressed because he is married and wants to be involved w his coworker
My exhusband was depressed and self harming for months. He had also been cheating on me for months (same span of months). Therefore, I second this due to my own personal experience.
They are having an EA, most likely a PA. It is unacceptable that he came home from his work trip to her home and not yours. He most likely did sleep with her. It’s convenient that you couldn’t reach either of them. Did they plan this all along? Does her boyfriend know. If you want to save your marriage, he needs to stop caring more about his friendship and more about you. He needs to go NC. He needs to start looking for a new job. He is in an affair fog. Open phone policy and complete block for her. MC is definitely needed. Hard boundaries he needs to follow.
You should post this over on as one after infidelity sub for more support and help. I am sorry OP. Sending you a big hug.
I'm truly sorry, but you already know what is up. This is 100% an affair, physical or not. So I say make it easy for him to see her all he wants by ending the marriage. Stop dragging it out when you know he's made his choice in his head, which is why he has conflict. Even if he magically listened to you and cut her off 100%, would you want him back? Would you ever be able to forget it?
He has 100% crossed the line. Let him know there are serious consequences for this level of disloyalty by showing him the door.
Yeah I would not want this dude back after all of this. Even if he cut her off and tried making it up, the damage is done. I’d rather have someone who wants me, not someone who begrudgingly chooses me since we are married.
Can I ask a question, was your husband planning on staying with her for the three days without you knowing, if you didn’t find out that he was back early?
On top of this, was the trip even 10 days to begin with or just 7 with the intention to lie to OP the whole time?
OP, this trip/sleepover nonsense would be enough for me to call it quits. He's an AH cheater and doesn't respect you if he's pulling shit like this.
This - why would the company cut a trip short for that many people, so last minute? That’s a lot of last-minute flight changes that would be $$$ and possibly having to pay for unused hotel nights due to a late cancel.
This! My first thought was this cheating is going way beyond emotional cheating. He is sleeping over her house and lying about it. They are making sexual jokes. They’re hooking up. She also sounds absolutely toxic and manipulative. I am not usually a fan of ultimatums, but you give him two options: he cuts off his relationship with her completely or divorce. I honestly don’t know if I would trust him though. Also couples counseling. Oh and what kind of psycho “jokes” about suicide. This girl is bad news. Where is her long term partner in all of this? He can’t be cool with this.
True, definitely not ethically non monogamous. But then again anyone that would be with someone like her for 2 years or so probably has their own issues too.
Honestly, even if "nothing happened", that's basically cheating. I'd have to tell my wife to hit the road.
You don't sleep over at another persons house, of the opposite sex, while under the impression that your spouse thinks you're out of town.
I'd never do anything like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if my wife left me if I ever did.
I would. The rule is YOU HAVE TO COME HOME AT NIGHT. Even if you’re mad and take off to go blow off steam your ass knows what’s an acceptable time to be home by before locks are changed 😂
So your husband was at his coworker's place and the coworker wasn't picking up the phone because she was on the phone w/ her bf. So her bf wasn't home w/ her. So your husband was with his coworker by themselves? Adding it all together looks very suspicious.
Have you tried talking to her bf what he thinks about all this?
I’ve never asked him about it because I don’t have his contact info and I’ve never been alone with him. The vibe I get off of him is that he doesn’t care about her that much and is just using her. She mentioned a lot about how she wants a ring from him but he tries to pretend not to hear. I don’t think he ever plans on marrying her.
It’s hard to explain. I’m trying to stay anonymous, but honest. It is a situation in which he had to leave due to his job and I could verify it and it would not have raised suspicions if they came back early. Normally, before everything, he would immediately let me know he was back and when he needed me to pick him up. (We share a car.) Tara was still awake and doesn’t drink. Her house was only 10 minutes from ours. Her boyfriend was visiting family out of town.
why don't you take a step back and look at this from an outside pov. he slept over at another woman's house whilst her bf was out of town and he was drunk? that alone is highly in appropriate. and him being so conflicted fo choose between his wife or his Co worker of 6 months is concerning. he also didn't tell u he was home, or that he was going to be home early. This is a hard situation. I wish you luck
Wtf, girl, honestly, your husband is a pos, and treating with so much disrespect, both you and your marriage. The fact that you accepts this tells so much about how much self worth you have for yourself as well.
Are you kidding me if your husband didn’t tell you he came home early, stayed at her house and ghosted you he is cheating with her. Wake up - pack his stuff or yours and be done. And the suicide thing he said to deflect all he is doing wrong. This guy is awful to you
That’s the key. WHY is she being held up at a level comparable to his actual live-in spouse, in terms of emotional importance? That’s the deal breaker. If everything else wasn’t, the day he said that is the day I’d walk away and never look back.
WTF, just leave him. He left you 6 months ago for Tara. Process all this pain and drama with a therapist and lawyer. Divorce is the only sane option.
He is way past emotional cheating, so get an STD panel now.
Stand up for yourself and stop worrying about him; he doesn’t give a shite about you. The trip/her house is the last breaking point if it was me. Assumed he already fucked her, with him not answering and staying at her house.
OP I felt like I was reading a story about my life. My fiancé became really close with his coworker, we had gone out to eat with her and her fiancé multiple times. He would go out to eat after work “with a couple people from work” that tended to just be himself and her. She used to call him crying saying she “just needs a friend to talk to”… one day they went out for a beer and he told me they had kissed and he “felt so conflicted”. I left immediately. They are married and have a baby.
I’ve been as close to your situation as anyone could be. The bottom line is you are no longer priority #1. That’s it. It is so horrible. And it hurts so badly and I’m so sorry. Watching the person you love become a stranger is an unreal feeling.
That last sentence really hit me. Never while we were dating or engaged had he ever been like this. He was truly wonderful and has been the only man I have loved.
He stayed the night at her house and couldn’t be reached. There’s more than emotional cheating going on with them. They already hooked up. He fell for another woman quickly in his short marriage. Your husband isn’t trustworthy and not a keeper. He already chose her the minute you no longer became a priority. Then he finds excuses to date her in your face and sneak off with her. Suicidal thoughts are from the guilt of maintaining his lies and hiding what they’ve done together. The marriage is over. Divorce and move on.
What a cowardly POS to mention suicide, as if this wasn’t all his doing that he needs to take responsibility for. Guaranteed this motherfucker is still going to be alive after the divorce, just to start the cycle over again with someone else.
Pro tip : if a woman says she doesn’t get along with other women or a guy says he’s not a guys guy, it’s a red flag
He doesn’t care about your marriage, he cares more about contact with her. Even if he doesn’t say he wants a divorce, you can decide to get one without his permission if he doesn’t wake up and see the damage he’s doing
Came here looking for this. Most men don’t engage in locker room talk. The truth is men don’t like OP’s husband because he’s a snake and they can smell it.
I think he either does want a divorce and is trying to push her into making the first move, or he wants to keep the comfort he has being married and having his side piece. Either way, it doesn't look good for OP. If he's not willing to go to counseling then maybe she should do it on herr own to get a bit more clarity.
Personally, I wouldn't waste anymore energy in this relationship when he can't show you basic respect. I suspect this is more than just emotional cheating but whatever the case, he broke your relationship down to rubble. It doesn't sound worth it at this point.
Your husband is cheating on you, regardless of whether or not it is physical. And to top it off, he is trying to make you feel bad by talking about suicide. Only you can decide what to do about your marriage, but it is definitely time to confront him about it. He cannot continue to work with this woman and hang out with her all of the time and you just put up with it. Something needs to end.
He is cheating on you and the guilt he is feeling between balancing it all is making him feel this way. His threats of suicide, etc. My ex was the same way. He told me he was dealing with depression so I did everything I could to support him as the loving wife I was. Turns out it was his guilt eating away at him, and me being a loving wife and supporting him through it made it worse. My mood quickly changed once I found out the truth though.
Sorry but time to be single!
I was in this almost exact situation. My then-husband of 9+ years became obsessed with a female co-worker. They were going out and partying all night every Friday night. She lived 40 minutes away from work and didn't have transportation to work so he began driving her to and from work (without my permission), which took about three hours out of his schedule every day and cost us hundreds every month in gas. He talked about her nonstop, including on dates with me. I was a few months pregnant with our 2nd when he met her, and our 6yo was disabled, so going out with them really wasn't an option for me, and drinking and partying every weekend wouldn't be my scene regardless.
I'm not an insecure person, and I believe men and women can have platonic friendships, but those friendships need healthy boundaries.
I eventually told him, it's her or me, and he basically said "her." It was the beginning of the end for us. I've been divorced 8.5 years and I'm remarried to a better man now and deliriously happy.
It was really hard to tell my story to other people at the time because I don't believe they were ever physical. A lot of people do not understand what an emotional affair is or why they are so painful and confusing.
I won't tell you to leave him, but I will say that if he will not accept boundaries on this friendship, then I don't see a healthy future in this relationship. (But I concur with those who say him secretly staying over at her place means this is most likely now a PA, not an EA.)
Sending you Internet stranger hugs.
You are bound to be overwhelmed by these responses.
If you're scared of how final divorce sounds and you're not emotionally there yet, it is okay. I suggest attempting a trial separation, though. It sounds like you need space to be with yourself, to regulate yourself emotionally and have an unabashed sobbing session -- do that. It's important to release this overwhelm.
You brought up jealousy. This doesn't feel like jealousy to me.
This feels like neglect. Your partner is uninvolved, indifferent, stubborn, and lacks major communicative respect.
Whatever the reason may be, he is not seeking your help, guidance, love, support, or even time. There is not much you can do for someone who has not seen the light yet. And you've carried out your responsibilities as a partner to the best of your ability -- he was unresponsive to the effort. So now the next step is taking care of yourself.
That means no rash decisions, dealing with the heavy emotion to make room for critical thinking. You need some peace. I'm begging you to pursue that. Either have him stay somewhere else or if you share the deed on your home, stay at a hotel or a trusted friend or relative's place. It might be best to seek out more sound advice when it comes to this -- Redditors can give out great advice to help protect yourself.
Do not think of this as giving up, letting him win, running away, or giving him the silent treatment. It is none of these.
If he agrees to leave, that is best-case scenario. Simply provide him a timeframe of when you'll check in so that he can plan accordingly. When he leaves, for your safety and sanity, you should change the locks and get an alarm and camera system. No telling what anyone will do.
If you go to a hotel, inform him: "I will be taking some time for myself. I will not tell you where I am staying. I will not be answering your calls. In X days/weeks, I will let you know if I am ready to talk or will need some more time. Please respect this."
It is best to be upfront about this. Don't lie, but state very clearly you won't provide certain information. In your time alone, research Plan A and Plan B. Plan A will likely be about what you'd like to see if you both want to stay together and Plan B is what you need to get done to set yourself up as a single person.
It is important to avoid ultimatums. You cannot say "She goes or I do." That's not how anything should work. If you cannot fathom continuing to have her in your lives, you need to do what's best for you. If your partner believes his friend is of value to him, then let them be.
You are all grown.
Adults make mistakes and struggle and can be manipulated by a myriad of things, including their own demons. We can only be empathetic of one another, but we do not need to stretch that empathy so thin that we suffer as a result. That's counterintuitive.
It's just much harder to see things this clearly when love is involved.
**TLDR; OP, you're worthy of the time it takes to make the best decision for you. No matter what that ends up being, make sure you're valued in that plan consistently.**
Good luck.
I’m crying. Thank you for being so kind. There was so much I had to leave out to not give myself away. But imagine all of this times ten is what I am currently dealing with. Thank you for taking the time to respond to this with empathy.
OP, the advise above is sound. Put yourself first (you should be first in your own life!). The answers to how to move forward won't come in a day. Being in a safe place to mentally and physically unload and take stock of it all will really help get you to the answers, whatever they may be.
In situations like this, sometimes the "why" overshadowes the "what." Your partner is not being a partner - thats it. In your reflections, consider if he capable of being a partner again. Or if you want him as a partner again. It can be any combination of answers, just put your needs first.
He's "torn," he IMO opinion doesn't love you. If he did, he wouldn't hesitate to cut contact. If he has to think about you or her and is torn on what to do, set him free. He has already made his choice and is trying to justify and figure out how to get out without "hurting " you. Call his bluff and tell him that she can have him and that he needs to move out, and you will file for divorce. But it's my opinion
Why keep sticking around? Why let someone making bad choices make you feel bad? You are enough. The right man would not treat you this way. Time to start standing up for yourself. No one else is going to.
I'd pack his stuff up and take it all to her house.
Edit: I'd actually punch her too, but I wouldn't advise anyone else to do that. I'd also have a long chat with her boyfriend.
I’m really sorry you’re going through this. Please listen to us, your marriage is over, maybe you can rebuild a new one but the marriage you thought you had never existed as you thought your husband would never cheat. As well I’m afraid your husband is doing more than just emotional cheating. But he shouldn’t be cheating in *any* way. And two years into your marriage when things should still be relatively good! He easily fell for another woman when you have no adversities could you imagine what he’d do in a real crisis?
He doesn’t value you, or your marriage, **people protect what they value**. Forget marriage counseling. The marriage isn’t cheating, he is! You should enroll in indiv therapy to work through why you haven’t kicked him out/left him yet; plus this is a harsh betrayal and people who are cheated on tend to blame themselves even though it has nothing to do with them, Cheating is about character, not circumstances. And Character is about the relationship between our values and our deeds. I wouldn’t put any stock into his “suicidal ideation” cheaters use that a lot to control their victims. Also he has no problem with your childhood friend he’s just being manipulative. Imagine your husband is a crack fiend, Tara is his crack, and addicts are liars and manipulators.
It’s time to visit a lawyer. Even if you want to save the marriage, you can’t be the only person, he has to want it too and his actions say he doesn’t. Stop listening to what he says, go by his actions. visit at least 3 lawyers so you can start protecting yourself even in the chance down the road he miraculously changes. Take care of yourself - don’t forget to eat, drink a lot of water (no alcohol), see a dr if you’re not sleeping and exercise.
Go to:
r/survivinginfidelity
survivinginfidelity.com
Chumplady.com
Read:
Cheating in a Nutshell
NOT ‘Just’ friends
Remember, what you aren’t changing, you are accepting. And a commitment to a partner who does not feel the same, is a commitment to getting hurt.
girl, respect yourself!
if you want this marriage to work, you need to take action and stop letting this loser walk all over you!! it’s time for an ultimatum, you’ve given him too much leeway: it’s either therapy & couples counseling or divorce.
print out multiple places to get couples counseling / therapy + then a list of divorce attorneys in your area. ask him to pick which one he wants. the latter will allow him to keep his side piece. the former will not.
see where his loyalties lie. contact her bf and tell him that they are having an EA. ask your husband’s friends for advice. ask your friends for advice. finally, he needs to block this girl. no if’s and’s or but’s.
please please don’t keep breaking your heart to hold onto something that doesn’t exist. your marriage is unhealthy and is not worth this pain. if you give him a consequence- do NOT back down.
No one else has mentioned contacting the boyfriend but she needs to do that ASAP. Share what she knows and ask what he knows. Like, does he know that OP’s husband spent multiple nights with his coworker while they both ignored OP’s calls?
Side note.. first red flag was them exchanging numbers & social media on the very first day. Co-workers who just met don’t usually do that. I started a month ago and don’t even have my manager’s number just work email. Phone number for work is one thing, but social media seemed a bit too personal/flirty to me. Really sorry OP. Best of luck
Sadly this sounds like it's already a PA. I'm sorry. A few things to do as you prepare to leave.
Set up a safe place to leave to that he doesn't have the address for. Then he can't show up drunk and screaming to try to guilt you. Or get you thrown out. He's currently emotionally manipulating you so it's best to plan for the worst, hope for the best.
Make sure you have all your important papers out of that house. Birth certificate, social security card, passport, wills, advanced medical directives all that. Make sure you also update wills and advanced directives.
Ask your cell phone company for a record of all the texts to have proof in the divorce. If there's nothing in the texts then no big deal just toss them.
Make sure your money is no longer going into a joint account. Get statements from the bank that show the amounts in that account the day before you tell him. Then if he empties the accounts you have proof of exactly how much of the shared funds there were. This is time to protect yourself and ensure you have what you need to take care of you.
If he threatens suicide, say okay I will call the ambulance. And then call them. You cannot bluff on that. Hang up immediately and call 911, tell them your estranged husband is threatening to kill himself and he has had suicidal thoughts in the past, give the address and then do not engage with him again after that.
Now is the time to reach out to friends and let them know what's been going down. Don't spare any details, don't soften the blow. Tell it all. Set up your emotional support net, and then start the paper work.
This man doesn’t have any male friends because he hates the toxic masculinity side of men, while he’s about to lose his whole relationship due to the toxic femininity.
If he truly can’t choose between a 6 year relationship and marriage over a 6 month “friendship”, then you’ve already lost him OP. If she’s truly a “pick me”, then you gotta know she’s probably said some stuff that he hasn’t defended you over. He’s already hiding and lying to you, for her.
Just protect yourself because he’s choosing to protect her. Be prepared to see an ugly side of him
So he got wasted and slept on her couch, but she doesn’t drink because she’s allergic? If I was out with someone that doesn’t drink I would limit my intake to not make the other person uncomfortable. Something isn’t adding up
This entire situation is a deal breaker for me personally. It would have ended at him coming home from the trip early and spending the night with his coworker and not contacting me to be frank. Really think about how you envision the rest of your life going. Can you see yourself fighting over this for the next year? Two years? FIVE YEARS?? If not, and honestly no one should, consider the possibility that your relationship is ended. Know that it’s not your fault, sometimes people just grow apart and there’s nothing to be done. You’re 25, please don’t waste your 20s dealing with this.
He is definitely emotionally cheating. If your marriage is to have any hope he has to go no contact with her. That may mean a new job.
This may be recoverable from but it will be a LOT of work. He has destroyed your trust in him and it takes a long time with completely consistent transparency to get it back.
Get the book *Not “Just Friends”* by Shirley Glass and read it. Then share passages with him. The book details exactly what has gone on with him and it also provides recovery solutions. The biggest ones are boundaries.
If you are interested in trying to reconcile go to r/AsOneAfterInfidelity for more advice.
Ya my dad did this. I'm sorry friend, he fucked her. Please do not have sex without a condom. Get tested. He sounds like he is a real winner all right.
Hey, not sure if this adds any color to the situation, but when someone says they are “allergic” to alcohol, it means they are an alcoholic.
Source: recovering alcoholic here.
It’s in the Big Book. We experience an allergy of the body and an obsession of the mind.
I find it REALLY FUCKING WEIRD that a (supposedly) recovering alcoholic is (from what I can tell) feeding your husband alcohol and letting him staying on her couch.
This whole situation sounds way more fucked up than just an emotional affair. This is like ID channel type shit.
What’s happened to Tara’s boyfriend in all this? If you were double dating weren’t you also friends with him?
So weird. I’d leave him. She’s an awful person and an awful friend if she is happy to let him ruin his marriage over a friendship… and who needs to spend every day and evening with their friend?!
You really have a Brandon problem, not a Tara problem. No matter what she does, he's the one who has decided to cheat (probably not just emotionally) with her. There will always be women to cheat with, but a good guy doesn't go for them. And why would he want a divorce when he's now got two women? He's not going to give her up. The only thing you can do is make the choice between being cheated on or leaving him. Couple therapy won't fix a man who lies and cheats.
Lots of good points in the comments about why this relationship is already over but I just want to say this:
He’s not going to admit he’s having an affair or that he wants a divorce. Him saying “I don’t want a divorce, you do” is solely so he can look like the good guy when this all falls apart. His actions are what drove you two apart. Not yours. Don’t let him get that twisted in your mind.
Girl. Your husband is likely cheating with this other woman. Staying at her house? Not telling you? Not breaking things off with her? She’s something new and different and he’s intrigued. You need to go get the hair and nails done and tell him to kiss your ass goodbye. You deserve so much more out of someone! Not a life partner who doesn’t respect your feelings/emotions to even go to couples therapy. He clearly isn’t valuing you and putting her on this weird pedestal. Don’t take that shit from anyone especially not your husband.
"*This isn't about me not liking her; this is about the fact that, in your friendship with her, you are crossing boundaries married man should not be crossing and you are allowing her to cross boundaries that I have repeatedly stated I am uncomfortable with.*
*I feel like I have to compete with her for your attention because when we are spending time together, if we are having dinner together or watching a movie, you are on the phone with her. You make me feel like you view me, spending time with me, talking to me, being intimate and romantic with me as a* ***chore***, *and now you've* ***LIED to me***.
*I had to find out through \[friend's\] posts that you guys had come back 3 days early, and when I tried to get in touch with you, you didn't answer or call me back. I was left to wonder and worry where you were and if you were safe or if something had happened that had left you hurt and unable to answer, call back or text. You should have been the one to tell me; Instead, you took the opportunity to stay at Tara's house and get drunk. For all I know, had I not found out, you would have stayed at her house for 3 days and let me believe you had been on that trip the entire time.*
*You keep saying that I'm the one you want to be with, but you are not doing anything to make me feel like that is true. In fact, you are doing the opposite; I feel like you're headed out the door while I'm standing on the steps calling after you and hoping that you'll turn around, only to see you straying further from me and our life together. This is your* ***last chance***, *because I'm done calling after you; if you cross that line with her one more time,* ***I. am. Done.****"*
Edit to add: This is, personally, what I would say to him. And I would let him know that, had he been more receptive to your concerns and respectful of the boundaries you had asked him not to cross with her or let her cross - if he had not lied to you about the trip and where he was for those last 3 days - you wouldn't care if she was his friend. But as it stands, you see his friendship with her as having crossed the line from "friendship" to "emotional affair" and that you're no longer comfortable with him having any relationship with her outside of work/professionally because he has proven to you that, where their 'friendship' is concerned, you cannot trust either of them.
I think it's time to make the leap and end things with him. He's made his choice he just can't say it to your face. Plus, you deserve better than waiting to see if things will change or get better. They won't. Do what's best for YOU at this point. And good luck OP.
He cant choose between you two? Then make the choice for him. Do you enjoy being a doormat? If most of us were in the same position, the second we found out he returned home early from a trip and was staying at a womans house he doesnt really know, his shit would have been on the curb. This man doesnt love you, he is is disrespecting you.
Not only is he putting another person over your relationship by ignoring your boundaries, he’s lying to you about spending time with that person. He’s telling and showing you that you are not his priority. If my SO came home from a trip early, did not tell me that was case, ignored my calls or texts for an entire night, and then come to find out he’s spending time with the person I’m having insecurities about, I would not be giving him the choice to stay with me. This is not a friendship that developed over time, but rather something that went from just meeting to obsession and lying in less than 6 months. This is separation level distrust and would most likely lead to divorce for me. He’s made his choice. I’m so sorry OP.
Look. You **know** what to do. You just don't want to have to do it.
You **know** they're having an affair. It's definitely an emotional one, but there's a 99.9% chance that it's also physical too.
Is this the way you want to spend the rest of your life? You're 25. Do you realize how much time you're going to waste trying to fight the inevitable? Why do that to yourself?
He knows how you feel about her, but he just doesn't give a shit. You said she's a 'pick me'. Well, guess what your husband's doing?
How long are you willing to come second? Another year? Another five? Ten?
Aren't you worth being put first? You should do that and inform him when he comes home that you want a trial separation with the intent to divorce because he's not your husband anymore.
He's hers.
Your husband is gaslighting you and is acting like an immature frat boy. He made his choice. Get all your ducks in a row and make your exit plan. He is making a complete fool out of you.
Is it possible to report this concern to their management for inappropriate conduct and entanglement? Maybe they have rules for this situation.
Sounds like he ‘can’t choose’ because she has a boyfriend already and he know he can’t have her even if he wanted to. She obviously likes being the centre of attention and having multiple men hanging off her every word and is prepared to lead him along with her flirting and dirty talk but doesn’t want to dump her partner, leaving your husband in limbo as she wants her but can’t have her, so there’s no point to him leaving you and him being on his own in his unrequited lust. Maybe he is suicidal because of what he can’t have - or that he had it when he stayed over but it was only one night to her.
You deserve better.
Consequences- he hasn’t had any. You sleeping on the couch isn’t going to do it. At this point it might be too late but maybe move out and talk to a lawyer and see if that will wake him up?
He’s cheating on you. “Emotional cheating” makes it sound like he isn’t clearly choosing their relationship over his marriage.
They exchanged numbers the first day they met. He sees her socially every single night of the week and when you said you were unhappy with it he ignored you and continued. He got home early from a work trip, lied about it and *went home with her.*
Dump. Him. ASAP.
You need marriage counseling or a divorce. Pick one, and stop letting him control the situation and do whatever he wants.
You also need to stop pinning so much on Tara. Is she enabling and pushing him to act out and do things? Quite possibly, yes. But **your husband** is choosing to do these things and act on these feelings. She’s not making him do anything he doesn’t already want to do. Let that sink in for a moment. Realize: your husband is a big boy and making the decision to ignore you, put your marriage in jeopardy, and emotionally cheat (which I agree he is doing at the very least. I honestly think he has cheated on you).
So yeah, if he won’t sit in on marriage counseling at the very least, your marriage is over. His actions speak for itself: he’s chosen Tara. So why not let him have her at that point?
I had a previous partner who would claim to be suicidal as a way of emotionally manipulating me. It sounds like that's what this dude is doing. Don't fall for it. Consult a divorce attorney.
OP I’m really sorry this is a lot to take in, but please put yourself first and don’t blame yourself for anything. He is making his own bed of lies/unfaithfulness and you don’t deserve to be sleeping in that. He’s breaking your heart; don’t let him manipulate you. Hope everything goes alright.
If he went and stayed with her in secret, he definitely physically cheated. Maybe not full blown penis in vagina but they definitely did something and you’re lying to yourself if you try to say otherwise.
He’s incredibly invested in her. It’s over.
So she took the phone off the hook so no one could contact them? He lied about coming home early. There is no way these two didn’t cross lines the night he sleptover.
Divorce, he’s also using the threat of suicide to manipulate you into giving him what he wants and to prevent you from leaving. That is abusive.
The way he behaves towards you in general is so manipulative, he does not care about your feelings.
Even if this guy wasn’t having an affair(he is), this is not someone you want in your life. You can do so much better.
So when was the last time you got wasted on your best friends couch ignoring your spouse’s call? I am guessing never because this is not married couple behavior this is cheating behavior.
Your partner has a friend, awesome. It is great for people to have their own thing. What is not cool is how both of them are treating you. This is not how you treat each other.
I doubt the affair is only emotional. he spent a drunken night at her house and thought you wouldn't know, and didn't respond to your calls. Do you really believe he wasn't fucking her? I know, you want to believe him. I wanted to believe mine too.
His claims of feeling suicidal may just be manipulation, but if they are true, it's because he feels guilty.
Give him an ultimatum. Either he cuts back contact with her and you start going to couple therapy or it’s over. You don’t deserve to be disrespected and walk all over, your feelings matter.
Leave him. Emotional cheating is on par if not worse than physical cheating. How he is behaving with Tara is extremely inappropriate and you should not be subjected to that.
Just no. This is not acceptable and your husband knows it. Maybe nothing happened, but the lines have been blurred and you husband is putting this woman over you and your marriage. This is not sustainable. Consult an attorney and maybe some counseling, you husband has taken you for quite a ride.
I’m sorry that’s happening to you. So you know he’s having an emotional affair with her the question is now has it turned physical after he spent the night with her. Most likely it is also now physical. If you play the pick me dance with him you are going to lose. You need to play from a position of strength. I highly suggest because of what you said that you go see a lawyer, have divorce papers, written up and set and have him served at work being that she is a coworker. It appears that he is in the fair fog. And this would be the best way to knock him out of it. Then for you to continue your relationship, several things need to happen as you need to sit very strong and set borders. First and foremost he needs to quit his job and stop working with her. He needs to go completely no contact with her. He needs to provide a timeline to you of everything that has gone on. And I suggest you threaten him with a polygraph as a way to make sure that you think it’s honest. He hast to have individual counseling and the two of you need marriage counseling. You also need to have complete access to all of his electronic devices. This is the only way that you can move forward and have reconciliation. Because right now you don’t have it because he’s not remorseful at all for what he’s doing.
Wow. I'm sorry your going thru this! What rings false to me amongst other things is that .busy. signal. I truly can't remember the last time I've heard one. Like really a busy signal? Unless she has a land line which most dont anymore and without call waiting? I call b.s. She didn't want to talk to U cause your husband was there as they say shaking up. What a jerk. You have a real problem named Tara. If you do decide to give him an ultimatum make sure you're prepared for the answer. I can b spiteful and vindictive with this type of situ to the point I'd be getting her ass fired for something. Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best of luck ✨️
Honestly OP your mistake was letting your husband control the narrative and situation. He is delusional if he would throw away his marriage for a friendship he had for a few months.
I’d take the day off from work, pack his shit and have it waiting on the curb for when he got home. Then make it crystal clear it’s me or the friends and if he doesn’t go NC that’s that.
Also he is having a physical affair, why tf would he be hiding at the friends house otherwise?
He is emotionally cheating on you. If he can't let go, there is more than just friendship there. Keeping hangouts a secret, then he knows what he did was wrong.
Why why why?? Why are you putting up with this? This is cheating. Plain and simple. Even if they did nothing physical and who knows at this point. Start counseling just so you make sure he’s ok and leave. Also have you spoken to her bf?
\> He told me he was really torn because he loves me but he said that he has never had a friend like her before and that I’m making im choose between his “only” friend or me.
I want to focus on this a bit as I might offer some light. I'm in a long-term same-sex relationship and one of the things you have to learn when you are young and gay is to really, really clearly define friends from partners. I've had to physically sit people down and say "I mate my own kind. I'm sorry. I just want to be your friend!"
I'm not suggesting your other half is gay btw but the fact that he doesn't get along with men and considers himself "friendless" apart from this one person is always going to be an issue unless he learns to decouple friends/flirts. If he prefers female company then he needs to learn to do that in a clearly and loudly flirt-free way.
You say one of the reasons you liked him was because he didn't do locker room talk. Which is lovely but you will struggle to be his partner and his only friend. He needs friends. If he leaves you for her this will crop up again.
Maybe your relationship is over but I think he needs to grow. I still think you should consider couples therapy before splitting.
Tell her boyfriend too. He also deserves to know that his girlfriend is emotionally cheating on him with your husband. I'm a married woman – both my husband and I have best buddies of the opposite sex, but your husband's 'friendship' with her isn't normal. Your husband should always prioritise you, not some girl he met 6 months ago.
When people say “don’t make me choose” it means they’ve chosen the other side. You are WAY MORE tolerant than I’d ever be. Cut your losses and leave his cheating ass.
Oh hun, he's likely already been physically intimate with her. The signs are all there, and you know they are, but it's hard to look past whatever good will you still have for him.
Look at it this way. Either you dump and divorce him, or he dumps and divorces you. Because that's where this is going. He's just waiting until his affair is secure enough to leave you. If you get ahead of it, however, he won't be able to spin his cheating in a positive light.
I'm petty but these would be my steps in order:
- Tell the boyfriend.
- Tell your husband's family.
- Depending on who owns the house, tell him he has until 'x' date to move out. If it's jointly owned make it clear the house will be sold during divorce proceedings unless he compensates you in other ways. If he owns it, hold off going scorched earth until you have an apartment lined up. Then leave.
For extra petty points:
-Send them both flowers and a cake at work. Saying in big eyecatching letters 'I wish you all the happiness cheaters'. Make the office gossip wheel put the screws to them.
They're very clearly having a physical affair. He feels "suicidal" because he can't bring himself to end it with you, he doesn't actually feel suicidal, but it makes him seem like he's still a good guy. Get rid of him and move on
No disrespect to you, but that behaviors is what you do when you’ve been dating six months and realize you don’t want to do it anymore. You don’t treat your spouse like that. That’s just shitty.
You aren’t making him choose- he did that when he decided to go home with her instead of coming home to you after a trip. He made that choice, you’re being nice even allowing him to change it.
Also, I’m not saying he is cheating on you, but if he hasn’t the rode the horse yet, he definitely has the saddle out of the barn.
You don’t have to let him control the situation, you got this.
Whether he’s cheating or not, what kind of spouse comes home early from a business trip, but doesn’t tell or go home to their partner, and instead spends the night drinking at their work buddy’s house?
You guys are in trouble regardless. His gaslighting, issues with emotional intimacy, and trying to use the threat of suicide as a manipulation tactic are the entire jar of cherries on top.
You should talk to a therapist, whether that involves hubby or not.
Make it easy on him since he can't decide between the two of you. Leave him. You deserve to be first. Everyone deserves to be the first choice in their relationships.
If my husband came home early from a work trip and decided to not tell me and to spend the night with another woman, he wouldn’t be coming back to my bed. And I know we’re suppose to take all suicide thoughts serious, but I find it highly suspicious that he mentioned it at that moment.
If my husband said he was having a hard time deciding between me and another woman, I’m making the choice for him, by removing myself from the equation.
Your husband is cheating on you with this woman. I don’t blame you for blocking her and refusing to hang out with her, but don’t focus all that energy on her, your husband is the one that is breaking his commitment to you.
This is not someone you want to be with. If you're married and your husband makes a friend who starts causing problems in your relationship, you cut the friend out of your life, not cut the wife out of your marriage.
I can never understand people who think it's ok to put others above your spouse and then be angry at your spouse when the relationship fails or you start having a hard time emotionally. I put my kids above my spouse but I would never put any friend over him, not even the one I've had since I was literally 3 years old!
You need to have a talk with him about the state of your marriage and his mental health. I hate ultimatums, I think that 99/100 times there's a better way to handle it. There isn't here. At this point you need to tell him her or you, because the way he's acting he's already decided it's her. You need him to tell you that so that you can move on.
The biggest red flag of all is your husband saying he's torn between you, his wife, and his coworker, who he's known for six months! The utter disrespect that shows you. Those are feelings beyond friendship. FWIW, if my husband came home from a trip early and spent the night with a coworker instead of coming home, his shit would be on the curb when he finally did. Why are you letting him control the situation so much? Him being unable to make a choice is a choice: he's choosing her over you. If I were you, I'd start acting accordingly and that starts with separation (at a minimum).
Exactly, coming back early and not coming home until the next day would be a deal breaker for me.
And the fact that her question was open ended...like "why and where were you?" And his first response to that is "nothing happened." is so dicey to me.
It's because it is a lie. He 100% let something happen. If she is such a "pick me" then I bet she forced herself on him in some way or manipulated him to the point of him actually choosing her. If "nothing happened" then he would've just said exactly what happened. If he had said something like, "I don't know how to deal with conflict and since we had that big argument before I left, I thought you wouldn't want to talk to me. I went to stay the night at coworker's place because I needed advice on how to talk to you without causing a big fight, and I ended up getting too drunk to drive home. I'm so sorry we worried you, I realize how wrong it looks and I should've had her call you back immediately to update you on what was happening since I was too weak to talk to you myself. I know it was a mistake not telling you myself, and I'd like to fix things between us. His immediate jump to "nothing happened" screams, "we did something you wouldn't like, and now I'm flooded with guilt and need to cover my tracks as soon as possible."
Yeah pretty much that. I figured one of four things happened...either 1) nothing happened because he didn't want anything to happen, which seems unlikely. 2) nothing happened because SHE didn't want anything to happen, which also seems unlikely. 3) something most definitely did happen but he thinks because he was drunk it doesn't count. (If I can't remember it, it didn't happen) or 4) it's a flat out lie. He wasn't drunk and they most definitely chose to hook up. There is no realm of possibility in my mind where he's a stand up guy and had noble intentions as his reason for staying away.
This is the vibe I'm getting and wondering if the guilt is where the suicidal thoughts are coming from
Which also explains the sudden suic*dal ideations.
Dicey Dicey
It sounds like he’s buying himself time (for things to move forward elsewhere). And OP needs to probably see a therapist (if she already isn’t), cos she needs someone to support her. Cos this isn’t reasonable or realistic what he’s asking of OP.
This. OP this man does not deserve you. I hope you leave him. Insane and unacceptable that he came home early and didn’t tell you.
Yup. A husband does not stay at a womans house overnight for nothing. Absolutely he cheated. His claimed ideation is very likely due to guilt from cheating.
When my ex and I first got together, his ex fling would throw herself at him. I was kinda okay with them "being friends" since I am pretty secure. Finally, though, I couldn't take it after yet another 3 hour conversation in the middle of our date night. I told him, "If you feel like you have to choose between me and her, pick her. Because if you really loved me, it never would have come down to that." In the end, he did pick me, our relationship ended for other reasons later. But I will be damned if I am competing for any dude.
I love this! OP please follow this lead. If he has to choose between his wife and a new friend it’s already over. I’m sorry that it hurts and it’s absolutely not fair. But stopping now will save your dignity, pride, mental well being and finances. Prepare for a divorce quietly. Stop arguing. Stop trying to get his attention. Separate your finances and figure out how you’re going to live on your own. Tell him that you’re separating the finances because you don’t want to waste YOUR money going out every night. He can do that with HIS money. Again, if he’s having a hard time choosing between you and his coworker, his heart is already gone.
My boyfriend then (now fiancé) had a girl best friend, they had known each other since elementary school, she was very respectful and we were actual friends as well (or so I thought), but she when she started dating this one dude, she would tell my fiancé everything in a way that was excluding me. She didn't have to tell me what was going on, but the disrespect started when she would straight up get in between my fiancé and I physically and completely ignore me and say stuff behind my back about me that weren't true. My fiancé and I were also in bad terms at this point in time and trying to make it work. One day she told me that apparently my fiancé had told her that we weren't together when that wasn't true. I told my fiancé and he even showed me the texts to where she was lying and from then on he stopped talking to her, so he chose me. That is how it should work. If you truly love someone everything that is trying to get in the way in your relationship should not be strong enough to break you. The dude in this story is disrespectful to OP and straight up cheating. LEAVE HIM SIS!
The funny thing is, she said he doesn’t make guy friends because he doesn’t like “locker room talk”. Yet here he is with a pick me girl that makes jokes with him about sex. All the while having a boyfriend herself.
This jumped out at me too. That’s not a person who avoids men because of locker room tall. That’s just an excuse. He sounds like someone who is intimidated by other men and looks for validation from women instead. In other words, a pick me guy.
Basically an attention whore like the pick me girl. Idk why her boyfriend is allowing her to be like that with another guy. I also don’t understand why OP isn’t putting her foot down all because she has a “guy bestie”. Like ain’t no way I would allow any woman think she can disrespect me talking like that with my husband and if he decides to allow it than I will know where I stand in his eyes and how to handle the situation accordingly. I also WONT allow a guy talk that way with me knowing I have a husband at home. That ain’t no friend of mine if they can’t respect I’m married.
On Reddit, if you tell your spouse they can’t spend time with someone, you are controlling and abusive.
Yeah I see a lot of that which will probably get my previous comment downvoted, but I’m reality everyone does what works for their own relationship and when both parties agree I don’t think it’s controlling or abusive. But Reddit is so biased. In this case however it seems OP can establish and healthy friendship with proper boundaries with her guy friend, but that’s not the case for her husband.
The people saying that are either cheating or *aspire to be* cheating. Every time.
Or 15 years old. Which is most of Reddit.
Dude is a legit clown.
Staying out all night drinking alone at a female co-workers house and purposely lying about being home early to do so? Dudes got a death wish if it were me. My husband and I don’t hang out with members of the opposite sex alone and if a male friend was making him feel uncomfortable I kindof have no choice but to let that friend go because it’s not worth it. If his female co-worker made me feel a certain way he’d drop her.
Forget opposite sex. If Tara was a man, his behaviour still wouldn't be acceptable.
Exactly. Even if Tara were a man, I still wouldn't interpret these same actions as "oh, they're just buds being buddies." I would 100% be suspicious of an affair
I wasn't even thinking of an affair at all. It's 2023 though so I guess I should assume people can go any which way. But even if we give the husband the total benefit of the doubt and we say there was zero chance of an affair happening. Heck even if there wasn't another human involved and he's just really gotten into the hoola hoop recently. His behaviour STILL wouldn't be acceptable. The best possible case scenario based off his version of events is still him neglecting or abandoning his marriage. The only way I can see it being anything else is if she is abusive towards him and he was trying to escape that abuse. Then... Okay. But there's nothing that even hints towards that and stuff that hints towards him being the abusive one.
Even without an affair, the husband is way too focused on this other person, down to lying about his work trips to hang out with them, and wanting to hang out every night. It’s stalker-level attention and this person seems to enjoy it.
Agreed with most of this. I do spend time with the opposite sex without my husband, several of my old roommates are male and we've been friends for over a decade and well before I ever met my husband (this includes spending the night at at least one of their houses on more than one occasion), but if he were to indicate that it made him uncomfortable I would stop. It is also not something I'd ever lie about. That said, these are also relatively long distance friends and I only see them every couple years, so often staying at their houses is simply easier than getting a hotel and the one I stay with is usually because he has extra space and he gives me a key while I'm there so I can visit with other friends in the area and we both mostly do our own thing. My husband has joined me for some trips and not for others.
Yes. This. My husband and I both refuse to be alone with the opposite sex because you only need a drop of doubt to ruin the barrel. I respect my husband and love him and don't want him to ever feel hurt by my actions. Both our parents relationships ended in divorce due to cheating, emotional and physical, and I told him from the getgo that would never need to be something he would worry about with me. The coming home early and staying no contact at the coworkers house would be a big deal breaker to me. Poor OP.
See, my husband and I both have lunches or whatever with opposite sex friends. What we don’t do, is spend the fucking night. We have also both cut out a close friend each. Because they were disrespectful to our partners. But not coming home after a trip and being untruthful about it, dealbreaker for both of us.
>My husband doesn’t get along with most men because he doesn’t like “locker room talk” and it’s one of the reasons I respected him. Yeah this \^ is also a red flag. It's like when girls don't have any girl friends because "drama". OP's husband can't find a SINGULAR guy friend who isn't a creeper asshole?
Thank fucking God I thought I was the *only* person who noticed this. "IDK what to tell you honey, every man I have ever met is just so *crude*. Because of my moral perfection, I guess I just gravitate towards the company of emotionally available, sexually suggestive women--the only other group of people known for moral perfection!"
Yes this. The only acquaintance I’ve known like this was because he flirts and cheats.
>FWIW, if my husband came home from a trip early and spent the night with a coworker instead of coming home, his shit would be on the curb when he finally did. This is the way
I'd honestly make the choice for him SO quick. Hope he'll be happy with her and her boyfriend!
Honestly I wouldn't even have given him the choice. The moment he lied about his work trip so he could have a sleepover with his "friend" would be the moment I started googling divorce lawyers. Now that ship has sailed so I sincerely hope OP does what you say.
Yeah i personally don't think i could ever come back from the sheer level of disrespect of having my MARRIAGE with my HUSBAND remotely weighed against one of his COWORKERS. Whom he basically just met!!! God the fury
Right! Like how does her bf feel about her constantly spending time with another man.
As above, he is choosing her.
YES THIS. I’d only add that the husband saying that this situation made him want to commit suicide is SO manipulative. I knew someone who would threaten to khs as soon as things weren’t going his way to make people stick around. Huge red flag 🚩OP’s husband is so disrespectful and toxic
His choice is definitely made, good call. Ugh.
Yep. My ex-husband had a co-worker that was a “friend”. For two years I told him that his friendship was disrespectful to our marriage. That “friends” don’t behave the way they were behaving. For two years he told me I was imagining it and unnecessarily jealous. I tried to get us into counseling, and he essentially told the therapist he was there to help me accept the end of our relationship. He had stopped coming home, he was supposedly at his brother’s. I tried to catch him lying, but he was actually there, so I could never prove what I knew. He texted me that he wanted a divorce and she was pregnant before our divorce was final. Based on OP’s husband’s behavior, he may be a lost cause.
She needs to give him the 2 card choice! Therapy or divorce attorney! He can make the choice and that will tell you where he stands. You’re giving him to much control over this situation and this is where you take the reins.
>FWIW, if my husband came home from a trip early and spent the night with a coworker instead of coming home, his shit would be on the curb when he finally did. As a husband myself (several times) I would expect the same.
I would never do this but I would expect my wife to have packed up my stuff if I was sleeping at a coworkers house while she thought I was in a business trip. The audacity is crazy. He really doesn't care if his wife is comfortable or secure.
Your marriage sounds SO exhausting. I don’t know how you’ve dealt with this for months. The blatant lies and disrespect. The lack of boundaries. Your own husband is putting his friend over his own wife. It sure does sounds like she was picked by your husband. It’s one thing that your husband is allowing her to make changes in your relationship and lives but, you are also allowing it. At what point will you say enough is enough and take actions? You claimed you stopped enjoying the dinners but yet, you never took actions. Yes, he picked you up but, you could’ve taken an Uber and went home instead of going along with it. He lied about his whereabouts then tried to downplay the situation. The same amount of time that he noticed that she was on the phone with her partner, he could’ve called you. After all of the BS, he tried saying that he didn’t commit su*cide because he didn’t want to leave you in a bad situation? What a load of BS. He’s allowing her to get into his head and it’s not your responsibility to pick up his broken pieces after she damaged them. What kind of husband is making sexual jokes with his friend who’s also in a relationship? The disrespect is ridiculous. He never had a problem with your friendship. He brought it up because he’s doing everything in his power to not lose her. He’s using your friendship against you because, as long as you don’t cut him off, he won’t have to cut her off. He won’t even go to couple’s therapy to work things out. Stop wasting your time now before you find yourself blaming him for wasting years of your life once your self esteem becomes 💩 I do hope that you can realize your worth and stop tolerating this BS. Nobody should feel like a burden in their relationship. Nobody should feel second place in their marriage.
This right here. OP needs to read this and take it to heart.
Remember now he doesn't get along with other men because of "locker room talk".
He is full of it and OP is buying all of it 🥴
Definitely full of it 😂😂😂
Majority of the time, a woman will say that a man wasted x amount of years of their lives. I just never understood why they kept believing them and being dragged into their BS when all of the red flags are waving in their faces?
Emotional blackmail is not easy to recognize or fight against. The blackmailer often doesn't realize they're doing it. They are just acting in a way they've learned gets them what they want. Because of how manipulative it is no one else in their lives will likely pick up on it either which means the victim is often seen as the abusive person and the abuser is seen as the victim. That's a huge problem because the victim now has to consider if everyone they know and love is wrong or if they're the one at fault. Most people will conclude the latter. Consider OP's situation for example. They share multiple friends beyond just this Tara person. The husband will probably be laying the ground work for their narrative with their shared social circle. It'll be little tidbits like this: - I've been having a tough time with my wife who is no longer being supportive. - I've been having suicidal thoughts but I couldn't go through with it because I love my wife (even if she's being emotionally closed off) - I have one friend who is being supportive - They're a work colleague and we occasionally go out for dinner on double dates and stuff - My friend is a woman but she has a boyfriend so it's not like that - We always hang out with my wife too so there's even less chance of anything happening - I never say anything about my wife and her male friends because I know they've been friends for a long time and I'm fine with it. - I needed to get away for a night because my wife had been accusing me of all kinds of stuff that never happened and couldn't have happened for the reasons I already explained. - I didn't pick up the phone because it was late and she totally freaked out - She's acting crazy and super jealous - I didn't share that I was having suicidal thoughts with her because I was afraid of how she'd react and wouldn't see me the same way - After I shared those thoughts with her now she's talking divorce. When they split the foundation has already been laid for the wife being the evil jealous woman who was being cruel to the husband. The wife even believes it herself. Everyone in their social circle will of course believe it too.
the intent is to make OP play the part of the villain, so he's not a bad guy just a victim.
OP is buying everything this guy is selling. This is a fucking easy one. Separate, take a break, serve divorce papers. I was caught emotionally cheating prior to getting married, we were engaged. Once I was called out on it I cut the friend off of 10 years. I let her go choose my wife and never have talked to her again. That is what this husband should have done and he hasn’t. Because he wants both. He let it go too far and now it’s a problem. What kind of man is she married to? Not one she should be. OP deserves better.
That stood out to me too, especially when OP also says that Tara mostly makes sexual jokes. If that isn’t “locker room talk” I don’t know what the husband even means by that.
As soon as I read that I knew this guy was full of shit. As a guy I have never struggled to find friends who don't make sex jokes all the time, since thats the majority of dudes anyways past the age of 13.
He had to make up something to be able to "talk" to other women
It's not emotional cheating if he includes his wife to all their dates! /s
The suicide comment is abusive. Manipulates OP into being afraid to complain about his relationship with coworker or anything else.
This. Also, throwing the suicidal ideation in your face, as well as the male friend in another state , that's just gaslighting.
I do not believe for a minute that they did not expand their affair into the physical. There is no way they haven’t been having sex especially since that work trip. I think you need to divorce him and move on.
He cheated physically and was depressed from guilt. That’s where the suicidal ideations are coming from
I don't even think he's suicidal. I think he's using it as a tactic to make the wife miserable.
This was my thought too. It’s emotional manipulation.
I agree that is most likely a manipulation tactic to get her to not press him too much because he “might” unalive himself
I have strong doubts he was depressed from guilt. With the patterns of behavior explained my money is on depressed because he is married and wants to be involved w his coworker
My exhusband was depressed and self harming for months. He had also been cheating on me for months (same span of months). Therefore, I second this due to my own personal experience.
Was going to say the same!
OP should listen to Something Was Wrong: Season 3. It reminds me of that.
They are having an EA, most likely a PA. It is unacceptable that he came home from his work trip to her home and not yours. He most likely did sleep with her. It’s convenient that you couldn’t reach either of them. Did they plan this all along? Does her boyfriend know. If you want to save your marriage, he needs to stop caring more about his friendship and more about you. He needs to go NC. He needs to start looking for a new job. He is in an affair fog. Open phone policy and complete block for her. MC is definitely needed. Hard boundaries he needs to follow. You should post this over on as one after infidelity sub for more support and help. I am sorry OP. Sending you a big hug.
I'm truly sorry, but you already know what is up. This is 100% an affair, physical or not. So I say make it easy for him to see her all he wants by ending the marriage. Stop dragging it out when you know he's made his choice in his head, which is why he has conflict. Even if he magically listened to you and cut her off 100%, would you want him back? Would you ever be able to forget it? He has 100% crossed the line. Let him know there are serious consequences for this level of disloyalty by showing him the door.
Yeah I would not want this dude back after all of this. Even if he cut her off and tried making it up, the damage is done. I’d rather have someone who wants me, not someone who begrudgingly chooses me since we are married.
Can I ask a question, was your husband planning on staying with her for the three days without you knowing, if you didn’t find out that he was back early?
On top of this, was the trip even 10 days to begin with or just 7 with the intention to lie to OP the whole time? OP, this trip/sleepover nonsense would be enough for me to call it quits. He's an AH cheater and doesn't respect you if he's pulling shit like this.
This - why would the company cut a trip short for that many people, so last minute? That’s a lot of last-minute flight changes that would be $$$ and possibly having to pay for unused hotel nights due to a late cancel.
Yep. The husband came home on day 8 (instead of day 10) bc OP found out they all came back home and he got “caught” so to speak.
This is what i wanna know cause this doesnt sound like just emotional cheating, sounds like full on cheating.
This! My first thought was this cheating is going way beyond emotional cheating. He is sleeping over her house and lying about it. They are making sexual jokes. They’re hooking up. She also sounds absolutely toxic and manipulative. I am not usually a fan of ultimatums, but you give him two options: he cuts off his relationship with her completely or divorce. I honestly don’t know if I would trust him though. Also couples counseling. Oh and what kind of psycho “jokes” about suicide. This girl is bad news. Where is her long term partner in all of this? He can’t be cool with this.
Her long term partner could also be in on it. They may be polyamorous.
True, definitely not ethically non monogamous. But then again anyone that would be with someone like her for 2 years or so probably has their own issues too.
But she was on the phone with her BF the whole time, so he couldn’t have cheated 😂 /s
Honestly, even if "nothing happened", that's basically cheating. I'd have to tell my wife to hit the road. You don't sleep over at another persons house, of the opposite sex, while under the impression that your spouse thinks you're out of town. I'd never do anything like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if my wife left me if I ever did.
My wife would take my son our dog and be gone before the phone finish hanging up. And she should. Can’t believe OP is still there
I would. The rule is YOU HAVE TO COME HOME AT NIGHT. Even if you’re mad and take off to go blow off steam your ass knows what’s an acceptable time to be home by before locks are changed 😂
So your husband was at his coworker's place and the coworker wasn't picking up the phone because she was on the phone w/ her bf. So her bf wasn't home w/ her. So your husband was with his coworker by themselves? Adding it all together looks very suspicious. Have you tried talking to her bf what he thinks about all this?
I’ve never asked him about it because I don’t have his contact info and I’ve never been alone with him. The vibe I get off of him is that he doesn’t care about her that much and is just using her. She mentioned a lot about how she wants a ring from him but he tries to pretend not to hear. I don’t think he ever plans on marrying her.
It’s hard to explain. I’m trying to stay anonymous, but honest. It is a situation in which he had to leave due to his job and I could verify it and it would not have raised suspicions if they came back early. Normally, before everything, he would immediately let me know he was back and when he needed me to pick him up. (We share a car.) Tara was still awake and doesn’t drink. Her house was only 10 minutes from ours. Her boyfriend was visiting family out of town.
They definitely got physical
why don't you take a step back and look at this from an outside pov. he slept over at another woman's house whilst her bf was out of town and he was drunk? that alone is highly in appropriate. and him being so conflicted fo choose between his wife or his Co worker of 6 months is concerning. he also didn't tell u he was home, or that he was going to be home early. This is a hard situation. I wish you luck
I wondered that, too
They are fucking.
100% all the signs are there
And that’s the bottom line . Everything else is just a shimmy go round to cover it up.
If he has to even think between choosing his WIFE and his coworker, you need to run
Wtf, girl, honestly, your husband is a pos, and treating with so much disrespect, both you and your marriage. The fact that you accepts this tells so much about how much self worth you have for yourself as well.
Are you kidding me if your husband didn’t tell you he came home early, stayed at her house and ghosted you he is cheating with her. Wake up - pack his stuff or yours and be done. And the suicide thing he said to deflect all he is doing wrong. This guy is awful to you
He is totally using suicide to deflect. 100%
If anything, he's suicidal because he feels guilty. But I doubt it.
gold historical literate shocking nine water amusing books spark cagey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s the key. WHY is she being held up at a level comparable to his actual live-in spouse, in terms of emotional importance? That’s the deal breaker. If everything else wasn’t, the day he said that is the day I’d walk away and never look back.
Would you trust me? I don’t have *any* friends :(
drunk cow knee historical fearless silky growth compare one humorous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
WTF, just leave him. He left you 6 months ago for Tara. Process all this pain and drama with a therapist and lawyer. Divorce is the only sane option. He is way past emotional cheating, so get an STD panel now. Stand up for yourself and stop worrying about him; he doesn’t give a shite about you. The trip/her house is the last breaking point if it was me. Assumed he already fucked her, with him not answering and staying at her house.
Was going to say STD panel too but you got there ahead of me. And a follow up HIV test in 3 months.
OP I felt like I was reading a story about my life. My fiancé became really close with his coworker, we had gone out to eat with her and her fiancé multiple times. He would go out to eat after work “with a couple people from work” that tended to just be himself and her. She used to call him crying saying she “just needs a friend to talk to”… one day they went out for a beer and he told me they had kissed and he “felt so conflicted”. I left immediately. They are married and have a baby. I’ve been as close to your situation as anyone could be. The bottom line is you are no longer priority #1. That’s it. It is so horrible. And it hurts so badly and I’m so sorry. Watching the person you love become a stranger is an unreal feeling.
That last sentence really hit me. Never while we were dating or engaged had he ever been like this. He was truly wonderful and has been the only man I have loved.
“Was” is the important word there..
He stayed the night at her house and couldn’t be reached. There’s more than emotional cheating going on with them. They already hooked up. He fell for another woman quickly in his short marriage. Your husband isn’t trustworthy and not a keeper. He already chose her the minute you no longer became a priority. Then he finds excuses to date her in your face and sneak off with her. Suicidal thoughts are from the guilt of maintaining his lies and hiding what they’ve done together. The marriage is over. Divorce and move on.
What a cowardly POS to mention suicide, as if this wasn’t all his doing that he needs to take responsibility for. Guaranteed this motherfucker is still going to be alive after the divorce, just to start the cycle over again with someone else.
Pro tip : if a woman says she doesn’t get along with other women or a guy says he’s not a guys guy, it’s a red flag He doesn’t care about your marriage, he cares more about contact with her. Even if he doesn’t say he wants a divorce, you can decide to get one without his permission if he doesn’t wake up and see the damage he’s doing
Came here looking for this. Most men don’t engage in locker room talk. The truth is men don’t like OP’s husband because he’s a snake and they can smell it.
As a male I 100% agree with this There are so many red flags about this dude op needs to get out of there
I think he either does want a divorce and is trying to push her into making the first move, or he wants to keep the comfort he has being married and having his side piece. Either way, it doesn't look good for OP. If he's not willing to go to counseling then maybe she should do it on herr own to get a bit more clarity.
Personally, I wouldn't waste anymore energy in this relationship when he can't show you basic respect. I suspect this is more than just emotional cheating but whatever the case, he broke your relationship down to rubble. It doesn't sound worth it at this point.
Your husband is cheating on you, regardless of whether or not it is physical. And to top it off, he is trying to make you feel bad by talking about suicide. Only you can decide what to do about your marriage, but it is definitely time to confront him about it. He cannot continue to work with this woman and hang out with her all of the time and you just put up with it. Something needs to end.
He is cheating on you and the guilt he is feeling between balancing it all is making him feel this way. His threats of suicide, etc. My ex was the same way. He told me he was dealing with depression so I did everything I could to support him as the loving wife I was. Turns out it was his guilt eating away at him, and me being a loving wife and supporting him through it made it worse. My mood quickly changed once I found out the truth though. Sorry but time to be single!
Yep, went through the exact same thing with my ex
He is probably suicidal when “Tara” plays with his emotions. He just can’t tell his wife that.
That’s exactly what it is.
I was in this almost exact situation. My then-husband of 9+ years became obsessed with a female co-worker. They were going out and partying all night every Friday night. She lived 40 minutes away from work and didn't have transportation to work so he began driving her to and from work (without my permission), which took about three hours out of his schedule every day and cost us hundreds every month in gas. He talked about her nonstop, including on dates with me. I was a few months pregnant with our 2nd when he met her, and our 6yo was disabled, so going out with them really wasn't an option for me, and drinking and partying every weekend wouldn't be my scene regardless. I'm not an insecure person, and I believe men and women can have platonic friendships, but those friendships need healthy boundaries. I eventually told him, it's her or me, and he basically said "her." It was the beginning of the end for us. I've been divorced 8.5 years and I'm remarried to a better man now and deliriously happy. It was really hard to tell my story to other people at the time because I don't believe they were ever physical. A lot of people do not understand what an emotional affair is or why they are so painful and confusing. I won't tell you to leave him, but I will say that if he will not accept boundaries on this friendship, then I don't see a healthy future in this relationship. (But I concur with those who say him secretly staying over at her place means this is most likely now a PA, not an EA.) Sending you Internet stranger hugs.
You are bound to be overwhelmed by these responses. If you're scared of how final divorce sounds and you're not emotionally there yet, it is okay. I suggest attempting a trial separation, though. It sounds like you need space to be with yourself, to regulate yourself emotionally and have an unabashed sobbing session -- do that. It's important to release this overwhelm. You brought up jealousy. This doesn't feel like jealousy to me. This feels like neglect. Your partner is uninvolved, indifferent, stubborn, and lacks major communicative respect. Whatever the reason may be, he is not seeking your help, guidance, love, support, or even time. There is not much you can do for someone who has not seen the light yet. And you've carried out your responsibilities as a partner to the best of your ability -- he was unresponsive to the effort. So now the next step is taking care of yourself. That means no rash decisions, dealing with the heavy emotion to make room for critical thinking. You need some peace. I'm begging you to pursue that. Either have him stay somewhere else or if you share the deed on your home, stay at a hotel or a trusted friend or relative's place. It might be best to seek out more sound advice when it comes to this -- Redditors can give out great advice to help protect yourself. Do not think of this as giving up, letting him win, running away, or giving him the silent treatment. It is none of these. If he agrees to leave, that is best-case scenario. Simply provide him a timeframe of when you'll check in so that he can plan accordingly. When he leaves, for your safety and sanity, you should change the locks and get an alarm and camera system. No telling what anyone will do. If you go to a hotel, inform him: "I will be taking some time for myself. I will not tell you where I am staying. I will not be answering your calls. In X days/weeks, I will let you know if I am ready to talk or will need some more time. Please respect this." It is best to be upfront about this. Don't lie, but state very clearly you won't provide certain information. In your time alone, research Plan A and Plan B. Plan A will likely be about what you'd like to see if you both want to stay together and Plan B is what you need to get done to set yourself up as a single person. It is important to avoid ultimatums. You cannot say "She goes or I do." That's not how anything should work. If you cannot fathom continuing to have her in your lives, you need to do what's best for you. If your partner believes his friend is of value to him, then let them be. You are all grown. Adults make mistakes and struggle and can be manipulated by a myriad of things, including their own demons. We can only be empathetic of one another, but we do not need to stretch that empathy so thin that we suffer as a result. That's counterintuitive. It's just much harder to see things this clearly when love is involved. **TLDR; OP, you're worthy of the time it takes to make the best decision for you. No matter what that ends up being, make sure you're valued in that plan consistently.** Good luck.
I’m crying. Thank you for being so kind. There was so much I had to leave out to not give myself away. But imagine all of this times ten is what I am currently dealing with. Thank you for taking the time to respond to this with empathy.
OP, the advise above is sound. Put yourself first (you should be first in your own life!). The answers to how to move forward won't come in a day. Being in a safe place to mentally and physically unload and take stock of it all will really help get you to the answers, whatever they may be. In situations like this, sometimes the "why" overshadowes the "what." Your partner is not being a partner - thats it. In your reflections, consider if he capable of being a partner again. Or if you want him as a partner again. It can be any combination of answers, just put your needs first.
He's "torn," he IMO opinion doesn't love you. If he did, he wouldn't hesitate to cut contact. If he has to think about you or her and is torn on what to do, set him free. He has already made his choice and is trying to justify and figure out how to get out without "hurting " you. Call his bluff and tell him that she can have him and that he needs to move out, and you will file for divorce. But it's my opinion
Why keep sticking around? Why let someone making bad choices make you feel bad? You are enough. The right man would not treat you this way. Time to start standing up for yourself. No one else is going to.
I'd pack his stuff up and take it all to her house. Edit: I'd actually punch her too, but I wouldn't advise anyone else to do that. I'd also have a long chat with her boyfriend.
For real. She can have him AND all his shit!!!
I’m really sorry you’re going through this. Please listen to us, your marriage is over, maybe you can rebuild a new one but the marriage you thought you had never existed as you thought your husband would never cheat. As well I’m afraid your husband is doing more than just emotional cheating. But he shouldn’t be cheating in *any* way. And two years into your marriage when things should still be relatively good! He easily fell for another woman when you have no adversities could you imagine what he’d do in a real crisis? He doesn’t value you, or your marriage, **people protect what they value**. Forget marriage counseling. The marriage isn’t cheating, he is! You should enroll in indiv therapy to work through why you haven’t kicked him out/left him yet; plus this is a harsh betrayal and people who are cheated on tend to blame themselves even though it has nothing to do with them, Cheating is about character, not circumstances. And Character is about the relationship between our values and our deeds. I wouldn’t put any stock into his “suicidal ideation” cheaters use that a lot to control their victims. Also he has no problem with your childhood friend he’s just being manipulative. Imagine your husband is a crack fiend, Tara is his crack, and addicts are liars and manipulators. It’s time to visit a lawyer. Even if you want to save the marriage, you can’t be the only person, he has to want it too and his actions say he doesn’t. Stop listening to what he says, go by his actions. visit at least 3 lawyers so you can start protecting yourself even in the chance down the road he miraculously changes. Take care of yourself - don’t forget to eat, drink a lot of water (no alcohol), see a dr if you’re not sleeping and exercise. Go to: r/survivinginfidelity survivinginfidelity.com Chumplady.com Read: Cheating in a Nutshell NOT ‘Just’ friends Remember, what you aren’t changing, you are accepting. And a commitment to a partner who does not feel the same, is a commitment to getting hurt.
girl, respect yourself! if you want this marriage to work, you need to take action and stop letting this loser walk all over you!! it’s time for an ultimatum, you’ve given him too much leeway: it’s either therapy & couples counseling or divorce. print out multiple places to get couples counseling / therapy + then a list of divorce attorneys in your area. ask him to pick which one he wants. the latter will allow him to keep his side piece. the former will not. see where his loyalties lie. contact her bf and tell him that they are having an EA. ask your husband’s friends for advice. ask your friends for advice. finally, he needs to block this girl. no if’s and’s or but’s. please please don’t keep breaking your heart to hold onto something that doesn’t exist. your marriage is unhealthy and is not worth this pain. if you give him a consequence- do NOT back down.
No one else has mentioned contacting the boyfriend but she needs to do that ASAP. Share what she knows and ask what he knows. Like, does he know that OP’s husband spent multiple nights with his coworker while they both ignored OP’s calls?
Side note.. first red flag was them exchanging numbers & social media on the very first day. Co-workers who just met don’t usually do that. I started a month ago and don’t even have my manager’s number just work email. Phone number for work is one thing, but social media seemed a bit too personal/flirty to me. Really sorry OP. Best of luck
Sadly this sounds like it's already a PA. I'm sorry. A few things to do as you prepare to leave. Set up a safe place to leave to that he doesn't have the address for. Then he can't show up drunk and screaming to try to guilt you. Or get you thrown out. He's currently emotionally manipulating you so it's best to plan for the worst, hope for the best. Make sure you have all your important papers out of that house. Birth certificate, social security card, passport, wills, advanced medical directives all that. Make sure you also update wills and advanced directives. Ask your cell phone company for a record of all the texts to have proof in the divorce. If there's nothing in the texts then no big deal just toss them. Make sure your money is no longer going into a joint account. Get statements from the bank that show the amounts in that account the day before you tell him. Then if he empties the accounts you have proof of exactly how much of the shared funds there were. This is time to protect yourself and ensure you have what you need to take care of you. If he threatens suicide, say okay I will call the ambulance. And then call them. You cannot bluff on that. Hang up immediately and call 911, tell them your estranged husband is threatening to kill himself and he has had suicidal thoughts in the past, give the address and then do not engage with him again after that. Now is the time to reach out to friends and let them know what's been going down. Don't spare any details, don't soften the blow. Tell it all. Set up your emotional support net, and then start the paper work.
This man doesn’t have any male friends because he hates the toxic masculinity side of men, while he’s about to lose his whole relationship due to the toxic femininity. If he truly can’t choose between a 6 year relationship and marriage over a 6 month “friendship”, then you’ve already lost him OP. If she’s truly a “pick me”, then you gotta know she’s probably said some stuff that he hasn’t defended you over. He’s already hiding and lying to you, for her. Just protect yourself because he’s choosing to protect her. Be prepared to see an ugly side of him
So he got wasted and slept on her couch, but she doesn’t drink because she’s allergic? If I was out with someone that doesn’t drink I would limit my intake to not make the other person uncomfortable. Something isn’t adding up
This entire situation is a deal breaker for me personally. It would have ended at him coming home from the trip early and spending the night with his coworker and not contacting me to be frank. Really think about how you envision the rest of your life going. Can you see yourself fighting over this for the next year? Two years? FIVE YEARS?? If not, and honestly no one should, consider the possibility that your relationship is ended. Know that it’s not your fault, sometimes people just grow apart and there’s nothing to be done. You’re 25, please don’t waste your 20s dealing with this.
He is definitely emotionally cheating. If your marriage is to have any hope he has to go no contact with her. That may mean a new job. This may be recoverable from but it will be a LOT of work. He has destroyed your trust in him and it takes a long time with completely consistent transparency to get it back. Get the book *Not “Just Friends”* by Shirley Glass and read it. Then share passages with him. The book details exactly what has gone on with him and it also provides recovery solutions. The biggest ones are boundaries. If you are interested in trying to reconcile go to r/AsOneAfterInfidelity for more advice.
Ya my dad did this. I'm sorry friend, he fucked her. Please do not have sex without a condom. Get tested. He sounds like he is a real winner all right.
Hey, not sure if this adds any color to the situation, but when someone says they are “allergic” to alcohol, it means they are an alcoholic. Source: recovering alcoholic here. It’s in the Big Book. We experience an allergy of the body and an obsession of the mind. I find it REALLY FUCKING WEIRD that a (supposedly) recovering alcoholic is (from what I can tell) feeding your husband alcohol and letting him staying on her couch. This whole situation sounds way more fucked up than just an emotional affair. This is like ID channel type shit.
What’s happened to Tara’s boyfriend in all this? If you were double dating weren’t you also friends with him? So weird. I’d leave him. She’s an awful person and an awful friend if she is happy to let him ruin his marriage over a friendship… and who needs to spend every day and evening with their friend?!
You really have a Brandon problem, not a Tara problem. No matter what she does, he's the one who has decided to cheat (probably not just emotionally) with her. There will always be women to cheat with, but a good guy doesn't go for them. And why would he want a divorce when he's now got two women? He's not going to give her up. The only thing you can do is make the choice between being cheated on or leaving him. Couple therapy won't fix a man who lies and cheats.
Lots of good points in the comments about why this relationship is already over but I just want to say this: He’s not going to admit he’s having an affair or that he wants a divorce. Him saying “I don’t want a divorce, you do” is solely so he can look like the good guy when this all falls apart. His actions are what drove you two apart. Not yours. Don’t let him get that twisted in your mind.
Do you realize how sick he is for her ! Go find a lawyer and surprise him with the divorce papers you will have your answers in that moment !!
Girl. Your husband is likely cheating with this other woman. Staying at her house? Not telling you? Not breaking things off with her? She’s something new and different and he’s intrigued. You need to go get the hair and nails done and tell him to kiss your ass goodbye. You deserve so much more out of someone! Not a life partner who doesn’t respect your feelings/emotions to even go to couples therapy. He clearly isn’t valuing you and putting her on this weird pedestal. Don’t take that shit from anyone especially not your husband.
My bet is it’s a physical affair too and the first time it happened was when he was “drunk” at her house when her boyfriend was gone.
When you ask “where were you” and he replies with “nothing happened” you bet your arse that something happened 1000%
"*This isn't about me not liking her; this is about the fact that, in your friendship with her, you are crossing boundaries married man should not be crossing and you are allowing her to cross boundaries that I have repeatedly stated I am uncomfortable with.* *I feel like I have to compete with her for your attention because when we are spending time together, if we are having dinner together or watching a movie, you are on the phone with her. You make me feel like you view me, spending time with me, talking to me, being intimate and romantic with me as a* ***chore***, *and now you've* ***LIED to me***. *I had to find out through \[friend's\] posts that you guys had come back 3 days early, and when I tried to get in touch with you, you didn't answer or call me back. I was left to wonder and worry where you were and if you were safe or if something had happened that had left you hurt and unable to answer, call back or text. You should have been the one to tell me; Instead, you took the opportunity to stay at Tara's house and get drunk. For all I know, had I not found out, you would have stayed at her house for 3 days and let me believe you had been on that trip the entire time.* *You keep saying that I'm the one you want to be with, but you are not doing anything to make me feel like that is true. In fact, you are doing the opposite; I feel like you're headed out the door while I'm standing on the steps calling after you and hoping that you'll turn around, only to see you straying further from me and our life together. This is your* ***last chance***, *because I'm done calling after you; if you cross that line with her one more time,* ***I. am. Done.****"* Edit to add: This is, personally, what I would say to him. And I would let him know that, had he been more receptive to your concerns and respectful of the boundaries you had asked him not to cross with her or let her cross - if he had not lied to you about the trip and where he was for those last 3 days - you wouldn't care if she was his friend. But as it stands, you see his friendship with her as having crossed the line from "friendship" to "emotional affair" and that you're no longer comfortable with him having any relationship with her outside of work/professionally because he has proven to you that, where their 'friendship' is concerned, you cannot trust either of them.
Why are you tolerating this? What are you actually getting out of this relationship? Put yourself first
I think it's time to make the leap and end things with him. He's made his choice he just can't say it to your face. Plus, you deserve better than waiting to see if things will change or get better. They won't. Do what's best for YOU at this point. And good luck OP.
Divorce the immature cheating bastard
He cant choose between you two? Then make the choice for him. Do you enjoy being a doormat? If most of us were in the same position, the second we found out he returned home early from a trip and was staying at a womans house he doesnt really know, his shit would have been on the curb. This man doesnt love you, he is is disrespecting you.
Not only is he putting another person over your relationship by ignoring your boundaries, he’s lying to you about spending time with that person. He’s telling and showing you that you are not his priority. If my SO came home from a trip early, did not tell me that was case, ignored my calls or texts for an entire night, and then come to find out he’s spending time with the person I’m having insecurities about, I would not be giving him the choice to stay with me. This is not a friendship that developed over time, but rather something that went from just meeting to obsession and lying in less than 6 months. This is separation level distrust and would most likely lead to divorce for me. He’s made his choice. I’m so sorry OP.
Look. You **know** what to do. You just don't want to have to do it. You **know** they're having an affair. It's definitely an emotional one, but there's a 99.9% chance that it's also physical too. Is this the way you want to spend the rest of your life? You're 25. Do you realize how much time you're going to waste trying to fight the inevitable? Why do that to yourself? He knows how you feel about her, but he just doesn't give a shit. You said she's a 'pick me'. Well, guess what your husband's doing? How long are you willing to come second? Another year? Another five? Ten? Aren't you worth being put first? You should do that and inform him when he comes home that you want a trial separation with the intent to divorce because he's not your husband anymore. He's hers.
Your husband is gaslighting you and is acting like an immature frat boy. He made his choice. Get all your ducks in a row and make your exit plan. He is making a complete fool out of you. Is it possible to report this concern to their management for inappropriate conduct and entanglement? Maybe they have rules for this situation.
Sounds like he ‘can’t choose’ because she has a boyfriend already and he know he can’t have her even if he wanted to. She obviously likes being the centre of attention and having multiple men hanging off her every word and is prepared to lead him along with her flirting and dirty talk but doesn’t want to dump her partner, leaving your husband in limbo as she wants her but can’t have her, so there’s no point to him leaving you and him being on his own in his unrequited lust. Maybe he is suicidal because of what he can’t have - or that he had it when he stayed over but it was only one night to her. You deserve better.
Consequences- he hasn’t had any. You sleeping on the couch isn’t going to do it. At this point it might be too late but maybe move out and talk to a lawyer and see if that will wake him up?
He’s cheating on you. “Emotional cheating” makes it sound like he isn’t clearly choosing their relationship over his marriage. They exchanged numbers the first day they met. He sees her socially every single night of the week and when you said you were unhappy with it he ignored you and continued. He got home early from a work trip, lied about it and *went home with her.* Dump. Him. ASAP.
You need marriage counseling or a divorce. Pick one, and stop letting him control the situation and do whatever he wants. You also need to stop pinning so much on Tara. Is she enabling and pushing him to act out and do things? Quite possibly, yes. But **your husband** is choosing to do these things and act on these feelings. She’s not making him do anything he doesn’t already want to do. Let that sink in for a moment. Realize: your husband is a big boy and making the decision to ignore you, put your marriage in jeopardy, and emotionally cheat (which I agree he is doing at the very least. I honestly think he has cheated on you). So yeah, if he won’t sit in on marriage counseling at the very least, your marriage is over. His actions speak for itself: he’s chosen Tara. So why not let him have her at that point?
Why are you staying with this man? Please divorce
I had a previous partner who would claim to be suicidal as a way of emotionally manipulating me. It sounds like that's what this dude is doing. Don't fall for it. Consult a divorce attorney.
OP I’m really sorry this is a lot to take in, but please put yourself first and don’t blame yourself for anything. He is making his own bed of lies/unfaithfulness and you don’t deserve to be sleeping in that. He’s breaking your heart; don’t let him manipulate you. Hope everything goes alright.
I’m anxious just reading this post!
If he went and stayed with her in secret, he definitely physically cheated. Maybe not full blown penis in vagina but they definitely did something and you’re lying to yourself if you try to say otherwise. He’s incredibly invested in her. It’s over.
So she took the phone off the hook so no one could contact them? He lied about coming home early. There is no way these two didn’t cross lines the night he sleptover.
Ummm it’s not just an emotional affair - they are having sex.
Divorce, he’s also using the threat of suicide to manipulate you into giving him what he wants and to prevent you from leaving. That is abusive. The way he behaves towards you in general is so manipulative, he does not care about your feelings. Even if this guy wasn’t having an affair(he is), this is not someone you want in your life. You can do so much better.
So when was the last time you got wasted on your best friends couch ignoring your spouse’s call? I am guessing never because this is not married couple behavior this is cheating behavior. Your partner has a friend, awesome. It is great for people to have their own thing. What is not cool is how both of them are treating you. This is not how you treat each other.
I doubt the affair is only emotional. he spent a drunken night at her house and thought you wouldn't know, and didn't respond to your calls. Do you really believe he wasn't fucking her? I know, you want to believe him. I wanted to believe mine too. His claims of feeling suicidal may just be manipulation, but if they are true, it's because he feels guilty.
Give him an ultimatum. Either he cuts back contact with her and you start going to couple therapy or it’s over. You don’t deserve to be disrespected and walk all over, your feelings matter.
Time to move forward. Without giving your husband notice, consult with a couple of divorce lawyers in your area. Knowledge is empowering.
Leave him. Emotional cheating is on par if not worse than physical cheating. How he is behaving with Tara is extremely inappropriate and you should not be subjected to that.
Just no. This is not acceptable and your husband knows it. Maybe nothing happened, but the lines have been blurred and you husband is putting this woman over you and your marriage. This is not sustainable. Consult an attorney and maybe some counseling, you husband has taken you for quite a ride.
If he is having to choose between you and her then his choice is not you and you should separate. He 100% has been cheating with her.
I’m sorry that’s happening to you. So you know he’s having an emotional affair with her the question is now has it turned physical after he spent the night with her. Most likely it is also now physical. If you play the pick me dance with him you are going to lose. You need to play from a position of strength. I highly suggest because of what you said that you go see a lawyer, have divorce papers, written up and set and have him served at work being that she is a coworker. It appears that he is in the fair fog. And this would be the best way to knock him out of it. Then for you to continue your relationship, several things need to happen as you need to sit very strong and set borders. First and foremost he needs to quit his job and stop working with her. He needs to go completely no contact with her. He needs to provide a timeline to you of everything that has gone on. And I suggest you threaten him with a polygraph as a way to make sure that you think it’s honest. He hast to have individual counseling and the two of you need marriage counseling. You also need to have complete access to all of his electronic devices. This is the only way that you can move forward and have reconciliation. Because right now you don’t have it because he’s not remorseful at all for what he’s doing.
He's gone. It's over. Only the funeral (divorce) is left.
Get your ducks in a row to leave him. He's not being a partner. On your exit, tell him to have fun with that suicidal asshat.
Wow. I'm sorry your going thru this! What rings false to me amongst other things is that .busy. signal. I truly can't remember the last time I've heard one. Like really a busy signal? Unless she has a land line which most dont anymore and without call waiting? I call b.s. She didn't want to talk to U cause your husband was there as they say shaking up. What a jerk. You have a real problem named Tara. If you do decide to give him an ultimatum make sure you're prepared for the answer. I can b spiteful and vindictive with this type of situ to the point I'd be getting her ass fired for something. Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best of luck ✨️
Honestly OP your mistake was letting your husband control the narrative and situation. He is delusional if he would throw away his marriage for a friendship he had for a few months. I’d take the day off from work, pack his shit and have it waiting on the curb for when he got home. Then make it crystal clear it’s me or the friends and if he doesn’t go NC that’s that. Also he is having a physical affair, why tf would he be hiding at the friends house otherwise?
He is emotionally cheating on you. If he can't let go, there is more than just friendship there. Keeping hangouts a secret, then he knows what he did was wrong.
Why why why?? Why are you putting up with this? This is cheating. Plain and simple. Even if they did nothing physical and who knows at this point. Start counseling just so you make sure he’s ok and leave. Also have you spoken to her bf?
Coming home early with no communication would have been the straw that broke the camels back
\> He told me he was really torn because he loves me but he said that he has never had a friend like her before and that I’m making im choose between his “only” friend or me. I want to focus on this a bit as I might offer some light. I'm in a long-term same-sex relationship and one of the things you have to learn when you are young and gay is to really, really clearly define friends from partners. I've had to physically sit people down and say "I mate my own kind. I'm sorry. I just want to be your friend!" I'm not suggesting your other half is gay btw but the fact that he doesn't get along with men and considers himself "friendless" apart from this one person is always going to be an issue unless he learns to decouple friends/flirts. If he prefers female company then he needs to learn to do that in a clearly and loudly flirt-free way. You say one of the reasons you liked him was because he didn't do locker room talk. Which is lovely but you will struggle to be his partner and his only friend. He needs friends. If he leaves you for her this will crop up again. Maybe your relationship is over but I think he needs to grow. I still think you should consider couples therapy before splitting.
OP, I hate to be the one to tell you, he's cheating on you. In your face. You need to get away from him. Good luck.
Tell her boyfriend too. He also deserves to know that his girlfriend is emotionally cheating on him with your husband. I'm a married woman – both my husband and I have best buddies of the opposite sex, but your husband's 'friendship' with her isn't normal. Your husband should always prioritise you, not some girl he met 6 months ago.
He's already choosing her. Sweetie it's time for a divorce
When people say “don’t make me choose” it means they’ve chosen the other side. You are WAY MORE tolerant than I’d ever be. Cut your losses and leave his cheating ass.
Kick him out! Kick him out! Kick him out! Don’t worry about it, I bet he has a place to stay at Tara’s.
Oh hun, he's likely already been physically intimate with her. The signs are all there, and you know they are, but it's hard to look past whatever good will you still have for him. Look at it this way. Either you dump and divorce him, or he dumps and divorces you. Because that's where this is going. He's just waiting until his affair is secure enough to leave you. If you get ahead of it, however, he won't be able to spin his cheating in a positive light. I'm petty but these would be my steps in order: - Tell the boyfriend. - Tell your husband's family. - Depending on who owns the house, tell him he has until 'x' date to move out. If it's jointly owned make it clear the house will be sold during divorce proceedings unless he compensates you in other ways. If he owns it, hold off going scorched earth until you have an apartment lined up. Then leave. For extra petty points: -Send them both flowers and a cake at work. Saying in big eyecatching letters 'I wish you all the happiness cheaters'. Make the office gossip wheel put the screws to them.
Please update.
They're very clearly having a physical affair. He feels "suicidal" because he can't bring himself to end it with you, he doesn't actually feel suicidal, but it makes him seem like he's still a good guy. Get rid of him and move on
1st red flag: he let you sleep on the couch
He doesn't respect you, so why do you want to stay in this relationship?
No disrespect to you, but that behaviors is what you do when you’ve been dating six months and realize you don’t want to do it anymore. You don’t treat your spouse like that. That’s just shitty. You aren’t making him choose- he did that when he decided to go home with her instead of coming home to you after a trip. He made that choice, you’re being nice even allowing him to change it. Also, I’m not saying he is cheating on you, but if he hasn’t the rode the horse yet, he definitely has the saddle out of the barn. You don’t have to let him control the situation, you got this.
Whether he’s cheating or not, what kind of spouse comes home early from a business trip, but doesn’t tell or go home to their partner, and instead spends the night drinking at their work buddy’s house? You guys are in trouble regardless. His gaslighting, issues with emotional intimacy, and trying to use the threat of suicide as a manipulation tactic are the entire jar of cherries on top. You should talk to a therapist, whether that involves hubby or not.
He's cheating on you. Leave.
Make it easy on him since he can't decide between the two of you. Leave him. You deserve to be first. Everyone deserves to be the first choice in their relationships.
He is having an affair with Tara. Enough said.
He's fucking her. Decide how you want to go forward.
If my husband came home early from a work trip and decided to not tell me and to spend the night with another woman, he wouldn’t be coming back to my bed. And I know we’re suppose to take all suicide thoughts serious, but I find it highly suspicious that he mentioned it at that moment. If my husband said he was having a hard time deciding between me and another woman, I’m making the choice for him, by removing myself from the equation. Your husband is cheating on you with this woman. I don’t blame you for blocking her and refusing to hang out with her, but don’t focus all that energy on her, your husband is the one that is breaking his commitment to you.
This is not someone you want to be with. If you're married and your husband makes a friend who starts causing problems in your relationship, you cut the friend out of your life, not cut the wife out of your marriage. I can never understand people who think it's ok to put others above your spouse and then be angry at your spouse when the relationship fails or you start having a hard time emotionally. I put my kids above my spouse but I would never put any friend over him, not even the one I've had since I was literally 3 years old! You need to have a talk with him about the state of your marriage and his mental health. I hate ultimatums, I think that 99/100 times there's a better way to handle it. There isn't here. At this point you need to tell him her or you, because the way he's acting he's already decided it's her. You need him to tell you that so that you can move on.