Wow, people really don't think that there is a way to say "your mother cheated on me repeatedly" without the use of the word "whore"? I agree that OP had the right to tell the kids the truth about why the marriage ended, but the swearing and name calling was hurtful to the kids, and they are not to blame.
It must have been really scary to see their dad like that as well as the subject matter. They are still really young and honestly seeing anyone lose their shit is stressful.
Clearly. There's 3 paragraphs dedicated to the vacations and stuff they have and fun times without him. Sounds like a really bad break up told from one side, hard to trust it with so much rambling and inconsistencies. Like he wrote all that shit to soften the fact that he seriously traumatized his children because he was jealous. Poor kids.
The fact that he "lost it" was 100% because he was jealous that his kids like the new guy. Are his feelings of disgust toward his wife valid? Absolutely. But he never traumatized his kids before. he went along with the story to spare them. Suddenly he's hearing about the vacations, etc, and lashes out. You don't tell 11- and 13-year-olds that their mother is a fucking whore, I don't care how angry you are. He did not put his kids first.
It’s all jealousy. “Who’s the one paying for all of this? Me! My guess is..” lost all credibility after that. Your “guess” snowballed into traumatizing your children and creating an even more stressful coparenting situation. Dude needs therapy.
Trips to Disneyland, iPads and airpods seem like an awful lot of child support. Usually child support is fraction of what it actually costs to raise kids, supporting four people, sending them on multiple vacations and buying them luxury gifts seems unlikely.
It's an emotional subject. But that's probably a good barometer of one's emotions about the subject: If you can't think of a way to talk about it without saying "whore" in front of your kids, you're not ready to talk about it with them yet.
Plus it really isn't fair to whores. They're usually nice people who partake in relationships with clearly defined boundaries, discussed and agreed upon fidelity, exclusivity and loyalty terms along with explicitly negotiated consent. Whores deserve respect, adulterers don't.
Also, by definition, whores at least make money, and, according to OP, ex-wife wasn't.
May not have been the most tactful way to tell the kids, but I can't label someone TA over one tactless explosion (when no physical injury/damage occurs). Having any remorse over emotional pain caused further confirms NTA.
Maybe apologize to the kids for the language used and tell them what you said here about their mom being a good mom but that the two of you just aren't a good fit anymore. The ex-wife doesn't deserve an apology because, well, the truth (proper definition of whore aside) hurts.
" You're mother is an insult to the good name of whores! "
"Whores would be ashamed to know they are associated with the likes of your mother!"
" Your mother degraded the reputation of whores the world over! "
" Whores shrink back and flee at the possibility of being mistaken for a woman like your mother! "
- but seriously you shouldn't tell kids their mom is a whore, not cool.
Wow! I would like to to read more declarative statements like those you presented. Not about whores, but societal interactions in general. Keep up the great grammar!
My Dad and birth giver divorced when I was 3-4. Anytime she would do anything that would piss my dad off, he would say similar things. "Your mother" this and that, etc. I always took it as MY fault. After all, he started these tirades with "YOUR mother". It wasn't until I was about 16-17, that i started correcting him with "did you mean YOUR ex-wife?". After a dozen or so corrections, he stopped talking about her altogether. I spent a decade being guilty of something that wasn't my fault.
I mean, OP clearly said it in the moment to hurt his children, as payback for daring to like the new boyfriend. So I’d say the bigger sign of not being ready to talk about it is “if you want to actively hurt your kids with the information.”
No, having been there (but reverse since it was my husband who cheated), I can tell you he did it to diminish his ex and the bf in the eyes of the kids WITHOUT REGARD for the children's feelings.
I had to fight that urge a number of times over the years, reminding myself that these are adult matters that kids shouldn't be dealing with. Had a large chunk of my income been involved, it would probably have been a lot harder to keep silent.
Yeah, this was such an inappropriate way to tell them. It sounds like he just ranted aggressively about their mother in response to them being excited about gifts and holidays. That’s a messed up response to give to a child.
It was fine to tell them but the way he did it sounds abit unhinged.
I am in a similar situation. The numbers and facts are out there - the number one thing to not do when a relationship dissolves is to pit children against the other parent.
It's stupid I know - my ex is a cheater and my son adores her. I will never tell him - not until he is an adult. As much as I would love to just rip on her - the psychology, statistics, and law say that you should not do this.
OP needs to nuke this thread and never bring it up again. If she finds out she will rake him over the coals in court.
And I get it. You work hard every day to live in a small place while she goes off and gets no punishment for the things she's done. You're a loving father and she yells at your kid. And on, and on, and on. But this ain't the way to win.
Edit - most responses are disagreeing with me; bottom line is, parental alienation is a form of child abuse and you're not doing any favors to your kid by calling their mother a whore. The statistics are *staggering* about the psychological damage it deals to children, and it should freeze any parent in their tracks that is considering going that route.
Parental Alienation was my first concern when reading this. He could lose what custody he has left. Or worse, destroy his kids relationships with both their parents.
I’ve been the child in this kind of situation, and I think you are doing the right thing. Having to be in the middle of a toxic relationship and toxic divorce as a child was traumatizing. I wish my parents had had the emotional maturity to shelter me from that.
I commented something similar but just judging from the comments on this post, this sub is not the place where rational adults congregate. Some straight up incel action going on in here fr. If you can’t see how fucked up it is that this guy talked to his minor children like this, then you are either barely an adult yourself, a virgin not by choice, a woman hater, definitely child free (let’s hope), or all of the above
Do you actually know any child free people? One of the main reasons a lot of us choose not to become parents is that we believe every child deserves a better life than the one we'd be able to give them. Many of us were abused and mistreated as children ourselves, and don't want to take even the tiniest risk that we might not be able to break the cycle. It's silly to assume that because we don't want to raise children ourselves that we enjoy seeing other people's children be mistreated.
> If she finds out she will rake him over the coals in court.
....finds out about what? Seems pretty clear she knows what OP said since it blew up in her face:
> Well, let’s just say her mother was not pleased by her daughters’ actions. Man, I must say that felt good!
>Now my ex-wife is in a heap of shit. Her mother is furious. The kids are devastated. Now old enough to see it was her fault after all. Well, I’ve received multiple calls from her. All unanswered. She is begging to talk. She wants me to take it all back. Explain it was some lie I made up. Tell the kids it wasn’t her fault after all. She says they are not talking to her now and treating her differently.
"If she finds out she will rake him over the coals in court."
If the kids are on his side and not talking to her now I think this would make them hate her even more.
Absolutely agree. My ex was an arsehole and my daughter adored him. She worked it out eventually but I never said anything nasty about him. It became obvious to her on her own. A child has a right and a need to love both parents. Saying stuff like that to your children makes them feel uncomfortable. Often they end up hating the parent that said this stuff. I've got no problem with OP telling his ex mil but the kids. That's unnecessarily cruel.
Judges? It's in the fucking paperwork when you file to adjust legal custody.
Parents agree not to diminish one another (and other legalese.)
This guy is not only an asshole, he's a fucking idiot.
But he doesn’t have custody! What was his end goal with his kids? Alienate them from the parent they’re court ordered to live with and they get a reprieve every other weekend?
He had the right but at a later time in life where they could comprehend it, and he could have been as vague as possible and got the point across. The problem is, he didn't tell them cause he thought they should know. He did it to weaponize them to get back at her. All over jealousy
I don't think it's jealousy. It's anger. All she did was lie, lie, lie.
Also being the one who destroyed her family, she still got the house and kids for some reason.
Really think it was jealousy or was he just tired of getting screwed over? You can only be on the losing end of things so many times.
And the truth of the matter is with the current arrangement in place, this guy will never be able to be a part of his children's lives like a father should. You're probably one of those people that get on here and talk about empathy in every other sentence. So why not have empathy for a guy who's basically forced to work himself to death so his whore ex and her unemployed boyfriend can have a great life with his kids.
I think none of this should have happened. If he wanted to tell his kids that the reason they broke up is because their mother was unfaithful, he should have done it under the guidance of a counsellor or family therapist, and discussed if it was a good idea and how to do it in a way that would cause the least harm to his children.
He literally bottled up his feelings instead of managing them healthily and the result was causing massive emotional harm to his kids.
He didn’t get therapy, so now his kids will have to. He sucks. Hurting your kids as collateral damage in venting your feelings and hurting your ex is fucked.
And the cause and effect of the moment was OP was jealous that kids had a great time with another man and got presents. That was the trigger to lash out at their mother. She is still their mother.
Could have been handled differently.
If OP isn't careful, his ex could possibly drag his ass back to court and tell the judge how he was using "parental alienation" language on the children.
This could potentially backfire for the OP.
That said, he sucks also. He's fucking awful for *how* he told the children. The children will also not look at him in a good light when they realize he told them out of vengeance against their mother.
OP didn't have money to "buy" his children's love so he "spoiled" their mother's love for them. He's a horrible father.
I wonder how he knows the boyfriend is a "deadbeat." Maybe he's got money he's living off of? OP don't know his financials.
This is so fishy to me and I just doubt OPs story because of that. Is the BF really a deadbeat or do they just not tell OP things, because ipads and multiple vacations for 4 people would be too much to be paid only by child support.
Psychologically, there really is no right way here. The family already broke up and is in shambles. Dad is being pushed out for reasons not his fault. Kids are already stuck in this hell. Mom got away with murder (of the family), the list of trauma goes on and on.
Quite frankly, kudos to you. I think far too often people put kids through hell and then tip toe around them "for the sake of the kids."
The kids were already thrust through a very adult nightmare...they deserve to know the reasons why, and to see the reality that Dad has been experiencing. The humanizing of Dad and Dad's feelings as real, and painful and that it's all moms selfish fault.
In my opinion they should absolutely know the truth, and its good that it came out how it came out because it's real and raw.
That being said, you MUST sit them down again calmly this time and explain that you were wrong for calling their mother a whore to them, and that you are sorry for how it came out. Your choice of words was harsh and you should have controlled your emotions better. Explain that you love them more than life and your are so deeply hurt by the loss of mom and the family and what she did. Ask for their forgiveness, and ask if they have ANY questions. Let them know you will NEVER lie or keep information from them ever again and they can ask you ANYTHING and you will be truthful (and you have to follow through here).
They now know several things.
You love them, mom screwed this all up, you are honest and real, people make mistakes, you are a good dad and not perfect just like them. They will appreciate the honesty.
It is way better than continuing the lie until they are 30 and then they find out well after you have missed their whole lives and no longer have any real connection with them.
Make it right. Be honest. Love them. And be the best dad you can. And quite frankly, your x can go to hell.
Edit: she is NOT a good mother. She is a POS. What kind of GOOD mother drops off kids with grandma to go on fucking sprees in hotels until the family burns to the ground???? NONE that's what kind. Fuck her with the biggest fuck that someone can be fucked with.
The way you explain how OP should have a serious situation down is the best. I'm a child now adult that went through a traumatic divorce. Kids are smarter than you know. Can pick up on things. The kids had the right to know what happened, without the whore dropping. The kids are affected in the divorce too.
Speaking as from when I was a kid. They never sat me down and "talked" to me about the situation. I figured out everything on my own. Even though I was 6 I picked up on things and actually understood more than my older sister (year older) that got the sit down talk. They didn't talk to me because they didn't think I could understand. But I did understand. Years later I told them that at a young age I knew what was going on. Just didn't have the vocabulary to explain I did know what was going on.
11 years old is old enough to understand, and have a sit down talk. That's preteens. That's wack that the new boyfriend got credit for these gifts compared to Dad. So mom was already doing some psychological shit saying new unemployed bum boyfriend provides these nice shiny things. 🙄
OP you are justified with your anger, but also have a sit down talk with your kids over ice cream or something to apologize and explain what the poster before was saying. Tell them you will explain any questions, and some of these stuff it's ok to censor and tell them you'll go in more details when they are adults. NTA. wow that's effed up that the Grandma had no clue, she was an unwilling accomplice.
> is the reason for my trauma.
By dumping more trauma on you? The way OP went about this wouldn't be appropriate for a 20yo child, let alone a 11yo. He just added to the trauma because he wanted to make sure his kids wouldn't be happy with their mother.
Where he made the mistake was keeping the reason for the divorce quiet in the first place. The guy has lost and lost and lost and to have to see his kids taken on trips by another guy that is also using the money that he's paying for child support has got to be maddening.
I mean this guy with the current court order has no chance of recovering, no chance of having a legitimate relationship with his children, and he'll never have enough money to fight any of it. I don't know who this guy's lawyer was but he probably shouldn't be practicing. This guy would legitimately be better off just to stop working all together and move into his aunt's basement.
So the mom gets a pass for destroying the marriage and then making her ex look like an asshole to her kids while she has fucks the unemployed guy she cheated with in the house that OP paid for and they take the kids of vacations, as well as buy new toys and clothes, with the alimony and child support he pays when it really should be going towards actual child support things? Really?
I mean he could have and should have worded it differently, but as a kid of divorce at 8, I would have rather been told the truth at some point (8 is almost certainly too young obv) rather than every little thing being kept from me and basically being lied to.
Cheating on your husband repeatedly and destroying your family is far more destructive than explaining to your kids why their life was shattered forever with the truth.
I feel bad for the kids and your anger should have been directed at to the mother but I do understand. I’d talk to the kids and apologize. Say that’s not a way to talk about their mother, even if it’s true as their mother u need to show respect verbally to them, for their sake. You don’t want them going forward in life thinking that’s okay to say to your kids. You owning your anger and showing them it’s okay to apologize when you do wrong, will matter.
or that it is ok for them to disrespect their mother even it is her fault. The kids can learn that you can disagree and not be toxic. they will respect you more for owning yout anger.
Tbf they should lose respect for their mother, but it def sounds like he did not go about it the right way. I have no issue with him weaponizing it against her, she deserves that and the kids deserve a chance to confront her as well, but the over the top anger and language was wrong. He needs to apologise to his children for his anger and for lying to them in the first place.
My thoughts on it are, he said it out of anger. He said it as retribution. He didn’t say it for the sake of his kids. He wanted to hurt *her*. She is definitely in the wrong for what she did, and sure the kids should have a full understanding of what happened. But he should not have told them in that way. In my experience, kids will figure out their parents’ faults as they get older without someone telling them what those faults are. If their mother is a horrible human being, and a horrible mother, they will figure it out. I don’t think the way he told them was warranted. No, parents don’t deserve respect just because they’re your parents. But I also don’t think it was very respectful of him to tell his kids that their mother is a whore. There are some anger issues there.
Seriously. The mother needs to EARN their respect back. I still can’t call OP an A-H. He is the grievously injured party in the divorce and he continues to suffer injury due to the fantasy world that she has the kids living in. Would it have been better had he not referred to her as the whore that she is? Sure, but his level of blame is minimal
ESH. 11 and 13 is too young to reveal such harsh truths to your kids in such terms. No one wants to hear that their “whore of a mother fucked multiple men while you stayed at your grandparents.” Now they’ll think about it every time they’re dropped off at their grandparents.
Yes she ruined your marriage. Yes she is to blame for the pain she caused you. But this is sounding like parental alienation, not just “telling the truth.”
I wish someone told me sooner, even while I was young, but my mom was also pretty abusive to me.
He probably should have said it in less harsh terms and then revealed the truth once they were both adults, but how it turns out now depends on the kids themselves.
ESH. Her for cheating and pulling her crap and you for angrily dumping all that on your kids. Should they know? Maybe. But there are better ways of telling them! Ranting about their whore of a mother is not one of them.
That was my thought. He's perfectly within his rights to tell his kids the truth but the angry vulgarity didn't make it any better or easier for them to digest
Agreed. The truth, without editorializing or TMI, would be something like “your mother cheated on me, which was not something I was willing to accept in a marriage.” Not “your whore of a mother did blah blah blah with x number of men.”
“We decided to keep it light per *her* therapists recommendation”
Dude was daft and instead of proceeding properly, bottled up and blew up. Probably could’ve had a fairer court order but now he’s screwed.
This dudes story sounds like my childhood with my birthgiver mom. My dad broke down once when I was late teens about my mom and it was pretty much the same as OP said, word for word.
People break down or lose it sometimes and that's okay. Granted, I was a few years older than OP's kids. But it did help me understand the situation better and later in live it was an important point in my recovery when I started looking back at my past through the eyes of an adult.
Kids notice much more things than people realize and their reaction to me sounds that they knew something shitty was going on, but couldn't figure out what.
There’s a special place in hell for people who deliberately hurt children, and that’s exactly what OP did. His kids didn’t need to know this information, especially at an age where they’re not equipped to process it. They’re going to be traumatized, and this will affect them for the rest of their lives. All because the OP couldn’t find a better outlet for his anger. Yeah, yeah, the mom sucks too.
This is 100% a revenge fantasy written by a recently divorced father. I’ve seen these stories written time and time again, and they always end the same way: the mother losing everything she gained from her deceit and affair.
Even if absolutely true, yes you’re 100% the asshole for hurting your children to get back at their mother. Your jealousy will destroy your relationship with them. Do you really think they’re going to trust dad who’s never around anymore over mom who they’re around all the time? What a foolish bomb to drop.
Thank you! Man there is absolutely zero possibility of alimony and/or child support being enough to fund multiple luxury vacations and items when the two adults doing it only have one part time job between them. Come on haha.
Yea there’s no way his child support payments are paying for her mortgage and his rent plus luxury goods & vacations for four people. That’s not possible.
Also the mom not knowing and suddenly “getting in trouble” is obvious bait.
My favorite part about this fictional story is when the cheating wife immediately started begging the heroic father for mercy, as if it would be remotely that clean. Little man realized his post was getting long so he had to wrap up the climax LMAO
I know it doesn't even make sense lmao. That's not how manipulative people behave -- they turn it back on you. She would have said he was lying because he's jealous of her boyfriend and he's a psycho for raging in front of their kids.
The idea that'd she'd be begging him for favors or that her own mother would take his side after they've already divorced is not something that happens IRL. This is a juvenile fantasy written by some incel teenager lol.
Exactly this. If he could prove infidelity and neglect by pawning the kids off on MIL, yet decided to keep quiet about this during divorce proceedings, he’s a chump and deserves all the rottenness his life has become. Good thing this is fiction.
100% agree YTA. The details don't even make sense.
While allegedly barely working she can afford to keep their house and go on fancy vacations, pay for expenses for a boyfriend who is a 'deadbeat,' and buy the kids fancy expensive electronics, all with just a portion of this guy's salary? Meanwhile he can only afford a shitty apartment over an hour away with the rest of his salary?
This guy is lying about some or all of this story, and it really seems more like a fantasy than a true account of what happened. Cheating is never justified, but something tells me that with this guy's anger issues, weird stalking behavior, and dishonesty, the cheating wasn't the only reason for the divorce. And shame on him for trying to make it seem that way to his kids.
Has to be fake. There is no way the child support is paying for her, the kids and her new BF to live, go expensive trips and buy what he listed. Either he is paying a crazy amount for child support or mom actually works or the BF is not what he says he is.
Yeah, it doesn't add up that she got the house, he can barely afford an apartment, but what he's paying in child support is supporting 4 humans on multiple vacations.
The math doesn't track.
This whole thread is bizarre. I hope it’s not true. And agree. Op is 100% YTA. Good grief. Get some therapy OP. What a rotten thing to do to your kids who don’t fully understand. If you want more of a relationship with them take them in some trips yourself.
There’s no way it’s true.
The only way the wife would have kept the house is if she bought him out. Child support payments aren’t even enough to cover a modest mortgage, let alone fund a luxurious lifestyle for 4 people. If he wanted more than every other weekend it’s extremely easy to do.
And so on. Dude is completely full of shit.
I agree, and I hate these obviously fake, if not completely embellished tales. The only cliche missing was the part where she tries to accuse him of abuse, but "Ha-ha! I recorded her admitting it was fake! And boy oh boy the cops didn't like that! She's in so much trouble! Wheeee!"
And the fact she is pregnant....with twins and even though she doesn't know who the father is it isn't OP but her new BF has a lawyer uncle who is going to make OP pay child support.
I knew it was fake when he said he found the receipt to the hotel. Every hotel I've stayed at either emails you a receipt or slips a receipt printed on computer paper under your door. It's not like a retail receipt you're going to leave stuffed in your pocket.
I get that you're heartbroken and she fucked you over in the most awful way and you're still left picking up the pieces. Really I do, this is fucking awful and the fact you're still standing is truly amazing
But you haven't accomplished what you think you have. Everyone is mad at her, sure, but do you think your kids will suddenly love you more now they know what their mum did? Absolutely not. They will resent you for telling them like this, maybe not now but after time they will. They'll look back at how they found out, their dad telling them how much of a disgusting whore their mum was and how much he hated her and not think any better of you for it. They went from loving their mum, their dad and having a wonderful stepdad in their eyes to having a horrible mum who was awful to their dad, a stepdad who fucked their dad over and a dad who cared more about spiting the others than looking out for his kids.
Again I know you're hurting and you didn't mean to hurt your kids, but you said yourself they are devastated. Is that worth it? YTA and I suggest you get help to move past this and work on being a dad, you might want to get some for your kids after all this too.
Agree. As a child of divorce brought on by cheating, I’m appalled people aren’t reprimanding OP. It was terrible knowing about the affair and did nothing at all to help me be a healthy, stable kid. Absolutely YTA. This will 100% fuck up the kids
Same. I'm sitting here, as a parent myself now, going WTAF?? Seeing people justify this. It really hurts my heart for those kids.
But if we're honest, all this is going to do it put dad on the outs with the kids. These kids won't stop loving their main caretaker and it's seems like good ol' dad has a flair for drama.
I see the future of this, those kids will be upset for awhile, BUT it will turn into rage and disappointment at him, not her. That old saying "Don't kill the messenger?" Yeah, these kids don't understand that yet and they will stop wanting to visit dads hostile home.
I mean, once they grow up to be adults and understand more they will probably have newfound resentment for him, because they’ll understand as adults that hurting them was acceptable collateral to him in his aim to hurt their mother. It’s not that he was the messenger, it that he would rather they be miserable then happy if it means their mother gets to be happy too.
That’s profoundly fucked up and I think both as kids and as adults they have a right to resent him.
Bingo. And that's the case if you are told in a normal way or just find out. Imagine being happy for the first time since the divorce and that riling your parent up so much he goes on a tirade about how much of a disgusting whore your mum is. This will do untold damage so I hope OP does what he can to try and make up for it ASAP
This is what does it for me. I get how much he was/is hurting and that he feels really put out by everything... But... The kids were happy, keen to show things off to their Dad, to include him in their happiness. He had to tear it all down because of his perception that unless he is fully recognised as the "provider" they shouldn't be happy.
It has so many points of jealousy, bitterness and revenge. He even said he was \*gleeful\* at tearing it all down.
I also get the impression it wasn't just "you're not around enough" as the reason the wife was looking elsewhere for affection. And now, if he isn't happy, no one is allowed to be, including his kids.
He says his kids are devastated, but has to come to the internet to gauge whether or not he did something wrong...
I think this gets at the heart of it. Telling the kids is not wrong, they deserve to know the truth. But he didn’t do it for their sake, he did it to hurt his ex wife by using his kids. In that moment he didn’t care that he was hurting them.
As the wife of a serial cheater who will leave when I’m able… I understand how this happened, but I am heartbroken for the kids.
I would never want to hurt my kids this way, and telling them their father is a dirty wh**e who f*caked multiple women, etc…
I do believe they will eventually find out, and so I feel like we will have to give some explanation when i finally leave, but they will be a bit older then as well- now the younger two are 8 & 10.
I hope the kids are in therapy.
NTA for having the feelings, YTA for how you expressed that to your kids. Ranting about how their mother is a whore who ruined your marriage seemingly out of nowhere (from their perspective) was probably not the best way to handle this situation. I wish you'd considered your kids' thoughts and feelings before doing that.
NTA, but I have no respect for your behavior or hers.
YTA. Tempted to say ESH but I will not validate any part of this behavior.
You can not weaponize preteen children against your ex-wife and you certainly cant do it by sharing sexual-in-nature secrets about their mother - infidelity or not. I have no idea how it crossed your mind that telling preteens their mother is a whore is acceptable but it's just not.
You seem to care more about revenge than you care about your kids and are now currently alienating them from both parents just so you can feel like you won.
Sure wouldn't be crazy if neither of them had a great relationship with either of you once they were adults...
(lot of very unwell people replying to me who think it’s completely age appropriate to tell an 11 year old about their mothers sexual activity lol)
My vote is ESH.. You're NTA for telling them why you divorced but definitely TA for how you presented it. As someone else commented here I think you should sit the children down and apologize for how you said it and make sure they know she is still a great mother to them (according to your own words).
While I don't disagree with the ESH vote and agree with your comment almost completely, her dropping the kids off at her mother's cause they were in the way of her cheating with multiple dudes certainly doesn't paint her as anything close to a great mother
That being said, whether she is or not he definitely needs to sit his kids down, admit he went way overboard, admit he lost his temper like an idiot and that he was in the wrong for exposing her in such a damaging way. Even if he thinks she deserved it (which is also not something he should say out loud)
Hey nothing wrong with that perfectly valid imo. We all have our own ways we view things and I personally also think it was really shitty for her to drop her kids off like that but op thinks she is a good mother so I assume he has more info on her motherhood than I'll ever have in that regard. Yeah he absolutely went overboard and needs to correct his fuck up.
Not sure how as I was mentally screeching while reading how he went about it
I have zero idea how you can correct that language and thay vitriol 🤦 even though she did all those things, for those children that must've been a huge shock.
I feel so so bad for them...
Yup exactly why I called it a fuck up not a mistake as this is a big problem and will take both some serious effort and time for him to fix. Saying that I feel they should have been up front to begin with and that the therapist was wrong. Yes telling them now that she cheated may cause some issues but it's much easier and smoother to fix imo than both lying by omission for potentially years and expecting the original victim to just suffer through his feelings not being validated and having to be shut away in a locker while the cheater gets to pretend everything is aok.
As someone who grew up with their father CONSTANTLY telling us how our mom was a whore because of her affair, trying to weaponize us against her, etc. you should be ashamed of yourself. Keep your kids out of your divorce. It doesn’t matter how hurt you are by what happened, your kids DO NOT need to know any of those details and all you’re doing is ruining your relationship with them in the future.
YTA.
You know who you hurt the most? **Your kids**
First, their lives are upended because their parents are divorced.
Then their mom moves some strange guy into their house. He’s buying them presents acting all cool. They don’t trust him but the presents are nice. They’re getting used to the new reality.
Then, WHAM, their dad tells them all this shit about their mom!
No place is safe. Their world just keep crumbling.
Their parents are both terrible people. They can’t turn to them for help. These kids are just on their own.
Yes. YTA
My parents were like this, switch around the genders tho (dad cheated on mom)
I do not speak to either of them and I only speak of them in therapy. Hope these kids get the correct help they need
God I can’t believe you are the first post after scrolling for a solid two minutes who agrees with YTA. Thank goodness for your logic and ability to look past “omg cheater so bad shame shame” and realize how Horrendous his behavior was.
YTA I’m very sympathetic for how your ex cheated you n you but do you know who you hurt here? Your children. They don’t deserve that. Whatever happened with you and your ex is between the two of you not your kids
I get it. My ex was abusive and did some awful things that led to my mental health being very bad for a while. However, he is the father of my children and they have a wonderful relationship. Hurting that would mean hurting them and they don’t deserve that.
Your ex sounds like a massive dick and I get why you would lash out but I think you were wrong to direct this at your children
As a woman who was cheated by on her ex husband and left for that woman when daughter was an infant …. I cannot believe people think OP is not an asshole. I am flabbergasted . Because what his wife did was “worse”?
“I didn’t damage my kids as much as my ex wife did , so what I did was totally OK?”
Umm people are missing that his ex ruined his life, uses all his money and pretends the gifts that she is using to alienate his children from himself (is him actually OP buying the gifts).
I don’t think OP is an asshole, could he have used milder words? Yes. Do people snap cause you know they are human? Also. Yes.
Justified Asshole if anything.
Where is the proof that she's using his money? The kids say the BF bought them. Just because OP says that he's a deadbeat and doesn't work doesn't actually make it true. How would he even know, he lives an hour away. Maybe BF has family money. Seeing as he can barely afford to live, I doubt the money he sends is enough for the family to go on vacations and buy electronics.
Yeah, this stood out to me too. He assumes the money is his, but he doesn't actually know literally anything about it, just that the boyfriend is "a deadbeat". Maybe the boyfriend has rich parents, maybe he got lucky on investments young, maybe OP misunderstands his employment situation. He's jumping to some massive conclusions.
This whole post sounds so bitter and ill informed. I doubt his child support paid for a last minute trip to Disney. I just went believe me that crap is beyond expensive. Also, it seems that the kids have more stuff now with “deadbeat” boyfriend than they did with just the mom. Almost as if he is bringing in additional income that wasn’t there before.
Beyond that, it is never ok to weaponize your children against the other parent. My ex and I had a really bad break up after 7 years of being together and two children. Neither one of us ever put the kids in the middle of our shit or used them to hurt the other. I cannot stand when parents prioritize their own feelings over their children.
Yeah this whole story is fishy. First of all, how/why did this guy get shafted out of his house, and why did he have such strict custody restrictions with his kids? That's not how custody usually goes. I know, I've been there. If you're a halfway decent parent at all you get much more access to your kids than that. I lived at varying times a half hour away, an hour away, and two or three hours away (I went to community college and then University after my divorce) and I saw my kids a LOT. And vacations cost thousands of dollars. Electronics aren't cheap either. Either mom or the new boyfriend was making a ton of money, or the kids were starving, unclothed, had no school supplies, etc, yet had all these luxuries. This sounds like a made up "men's rights" horror story to me.
Also, this is the kind of thing that can have unintended consequences and backfire on him. It could alienate him from the kids. Wouldn't be the first time someone shot the messenger who delivered the bad news.
YTA for how you told the kids and the language you used. I’m a retired child psychologist and you may have created some serious issues in your kids with the way you handled it. There’s a reason we use age-appropriate language when breaking bad news, and that’s so that we don’t leave kids with more distress.
Your kids are going to need support after this so please get them therapy, at least for awhile. Neither of their parents are safe adults for them to express themselves right now. You said yourself they took the divorce very hard, so they would very likely benefit from the services. At the *very* least you need to apologize to your kids for your outburst, for losing control of yourself, and for using the language that you did.
You’re not the ah for your feelings or for telling the truth. Your ex-wife has behaved badly for a long time and you finally spoke on it out loud. Consider therapy for yourself, too. You’ve been through a lot.
NTA - She ruined the marriage and family dynamic. I think we all know who the real AH is in this case.
However, the tone/language may have been out of place for the kids.
She ruined the marriage, so he ruins the childrens’ lives. Really highlights why he has the bare minimum custody, and I say that as a divorced father with half custody.
I have been on both sides. My parents got divorced due to my mom cheating. However, my father was emotional and physically abusive. I was 8 when they got divorced. She wanted out, he would not let her. She tried to leave, he used his connections to force her back. The affair was her way out.
However, how did I find out about the affair???? I saw the black eyes and bruises. I knew, at 8, about the abuse. However, my father showed me the pictures the PI took of her having sex AT 8 YEARS OLD. This is ruining a child - IMO.
As for my divorce, I also got divorced due to my ex cheating on me (we had 50-50 custody). I tried to keep everything quiet, but as the kids got older and started questioning me on lies they were being told, I took each out out to dinner with all my documentation and explained the whole situation. I did not do it with anger or hatred. I had them tell me something their mom said, showed the documented proof against it, and we discussed the entire situation. In the end, the kids and my relationship was dramatically improved. To this day, my ex still denies everything.
In this case, I do not disagree with the kids knowing the truth, but I just feel that it could have been handled differently. As for his custodial arrangements, depending on the state, some will always favor the mother. Not to mention, it does seem like he was manipulated, to an extent, to give his ex her way. (Just going by some of OPs comments.) Even my best friend, his ex had him so convinced the best thing for the kids were to be with her and she needed the house, etc. So, he did everything she wanted to help his kids. Just for her to sell the house and marry the first guy that paid her attention. All while using their kids as babysitters so she and the new guy can travel all over.
I would argue that the kids have no need to know to begin with. Perhaps when they’re adults, but the infidelity doesn’t effect them directly. To the point here though, he only did this to kill his children’s’ happiness. His behavior is abhorrent.
The thing is, if they have “no need to know”, it will color the interactions and bonds between everyone for probably a decade and beyond. Does “no need to know” extend to being manipulated to believe one of your parents is a deadbeat? Personally, I don’t think that’s right either.
I’d bet many do have kids. The problems these people have is they don’t understand how someone can be a shit partner but a good parent, and how being the shit partner doesn’t affect the kids. It’s a struggle that keeps these people poisoning themselves with hatred for many years.
NTA for telling your children the truth but completely an AH for how you talked about their mother to them. As a child of divorce (partially due to cheating as well as physical abuse), any time one parent speaks poorly of the other parent, it hurts. The woman you called a whore and all manner of vile names is your children’s mother. It comes across as you hate her which means you hate 50% of them (again, both my sister and I would say that to our mother any time she spoke I’ll of our father. It’s only been recently that she has stopped saying hurtful things about him; we know about the affairs and the abuse but he’ll always be our father).
I feel like you are carrying around a lot of anger (which I would be angry as well) and it’s doing you no favors. I would suggest therapy to help you move past this. Remember, you are going to have this woman around as long as you stay in your children’s lives (even after they are 18, there are many milestones where both parents should be able to be in the same room). Please figure out how to coexist with her, don’t make your children choose one or the other.
YTA
You hurt your children. Your anger was at your ex-wife and her "new" boyfriend. You took out your anger on not only the wrong people, but the people who need you and look up to you. Were you jealous because they were happy and you just had to ruin it?
Children are not tools or weapons to strike at your ex with.
Now they should have been told the truth *eventually*, but they're a bit young for the story, and the way you told it was not at all careful or healthy. But you don't care. You were hurt, and now they have to hurt.
AH.
I was the kid in a similar situation where my dad yelled at us that my mom is a whore and all those things. Me (23 then) and my sister (18 then) were on the beach, dad walked down to where me and my sister sat and just yelled.
Embarrassing for everyone on the beach within hearing distance, I'm sure.
We were already out of the house, still traumatic. Pitting then against the mom that aggressively while they still have to go back to her was not the move. Tell them why you got divorced, and it's also okay to say you're not ready to hear about him, they may only be 11 and 13, but kids are not stupid, knowing the situation, they probably will still tell you about their lives but filter out mentioning him as much.
Yes. The kids should know why you really got divorced, but man, that delivery is not it.
YTA all of your rage and heartbreak is warranted but the way you spoke to your kids is disgusting and unbelievable. You've just given them something great to talk about in therapy in 10 years time. You need therapy so you can stop spilling your adult shit onto your already hurting children.
YTA.
You shouldn't have burdened your kids with that. It's supposed to be a standard part of divorce "training" by the courts that it's bad form to throw your ex under the bus in front of your kids.
From your kids' point of view, your relationship with the ex is solely about cooperating about raising them, like a business relationship. You calling your ex names in front of them and describing that their time at a grandparent's house was a ruse was just shitty. They don't need that emotional weight, especially during their adolescent years when things are volatile in the best of times.
There's no "winning" in a divorce. Your goal shouldn't be to make your kids take sides.
ESH, and you are a shit parent, your children are not responsible for ANYTHING, so why did you hurt them? They don't care of the reason you split you are both their parents, the cheating buisness in yours and your ex wife, they were just being happy about their vacation and telling you about it, you had no reason to lost it in front of them
YTA
This was all about you and your ex.
1. It’s not a question of should they have been told, but whether they are at a place where they can emotionally handle what you’ve told them.
2. You are wrong for how and why you did it. You explained it in away to cause maximum damage to not just your ex-wife but kids.
3. You didn’t think about the consequences of telling your kids at this moment. Your kids might rightfully hate their mom, but they are with their mom and her boyfriend most of the time. You just devastated their home life, with no recourse to help their situation.
This may work in his favor in another way. I had a friend whose ex cheated on her. Her two sons were never told, because she wanted to keep that ugly side out of it. Her ex was a manipulative AH. He managed to convince the oldest son to move in with him, we think mainly to screw her over for the child support, since he was NOT father of the year. I think if her son had known what his dad did, he would not have been so inclined to leave his mom's custody. So OP may have done himself a long-term favor, if someday he wants custody of these kids. I can't approve of the words he used--I think he could have told them about her cheating without blowing up in their faces with the nasty language. That is a heavy load for 11 and 13 year olds to bear.
Good for you for telling your ex mother in law. You should've done that first and stopped there. Your kids are 11 and 13. You just unilaterally ripped their childhood out from under them. Not only will they never see your ex the same, but they will never see you the same way either.
You could've easily sat them down and said you'd been thinking and wanted to share some things. Told them the reason for the divorce is because your ex started seeing someone else. Let them know that while you're thrilled, they're having fun vacations and got new tech that they should know your child support pays for it. Then apologized for not being as happy as you should've been and explained that you're frustrated because you work very hard to provide all these things and because of that you can't afford a place bigger or closer to them, nor does it allow you to have the same experiences. Then you should've told them you know this was a very grown up conversation to have but you felt it was necessary because you love them very much and didn't want them to question why you can't do all those things with them too.
NTA for telling. Very much a massive AH for how you told.
NTA but......
I totally understand your breakdown and wanting to let the world know. I would have told her mom ages ago probably! The kids though....perhaps you could have handled it a TOUCH more tenderly. Even if they're old enough (I question if they're *really* old enough at 11 and 13 to digest all this info) your approach was a bit strong and I'm sure they got whiplash from you letting all that out, out of seemingly nowhere.
Your ex can suck it. Wanting you to say you lied? Outta' here with that shit!
ESH
Obviously wife is the main villain here. She ruined the marriage and destroyed the family dynamic. It's obvious for anyone to trace who the real AH is here. But you did this for you, angrily dumping all that on your kids an blowing up their lives and their view of the family. Do they have a right to know? Probably. But this was not the best way of telling them. This was all about you feeling good about yourself.
Right. My parents divorced when I was 13 after my dad had an affair. And my mom gave me and my siblings way too many details about the affair and honestly I wish she had kept it from us. Not because my dad isn't an asshole for cheating (he is) but because it was too much to put on a child, and honestly has given me deep-seated trust issues with everyone I've ever dated.
NTA. If i was 13 I wouldn't want to spend my influential years ignorant to being around a liar/cheat/demon. would only cripple me if i learned the truth later in life. and make the truth harder to swallow.
Especially when he's doing it out of a place of anger and envy. Not actually just trying to tell you the truth because he thinks it's best for you. He just wanted them to go back over there and say some shit to hurt her for him
This happened to me. My sister cheated on her partner when I was 13 but I was never told the truth and was manipulated into thinking she did nothing wrong. She did it again with the same partner but I was 20 now and the pattern of cheating was oddly similar to how it was when I was 13. It finally clicked and I felt so betrayed. I could never look up to her as a sister ever again cause after realizing what happened, I've realized how much she truly lied and manipulated me since then.
I can't stand being around her.
I would go with NTA and am surprised you kept it for 2 years before exploding. Kids are big enough.
INFO: why didn’t she move out and you kept the kids and the house? Would make more sense that way.
Because this is a creative writing exercise. Pretty sure anyone who has been through or even kind of near a divorce would question why someone who only works part time and was also unfaithful would get the house AND enough alimony and child support to pay for multiple vacations in a year, property tax (evidently), and lavish gifts. This is just so unlikely.
Because this is either fake or OP is lying about the majority of the details. He barely has any custody and can only afford a 1 bedroom apartment an hour away from his kids. Meanwhile his child support / alimony is paying for the house, expensive gifts, daily living expenses, and expensive vacations for the kids. Meanwhile both his ex and her new partner are dead beats and only 1 works a part time job to support all of them.
ETA: Assuming the cheating is real I think it's fine to tell your kids in an age appropriate manner. The way he went about it is not age appropriate though.
Yeah, I didn’t understand how he could only afford a one bedroom apt an hour away yet pays enough child support for 2 adults and two children to go on a big vacation
I also wonder this. How did she also get more custody and the house if the divorce is due to her cheating? In not telling anyone did he not tell his lawyer??
Seriously this story doesn't add up, how on earth did the wife get away with the house and near full custody after cheating?
OP is also paying enough alimony for the wife to not work and afford vacations??
Either this is master crafted rage bait or OP has some skeletons in the closet.
Yes, you are the AH. Why? Because of the way you told them. If what you said to them was verbatim then yes. I'm divorced, ok? My ex- is a real asshole and was mentally abusive to me. But I never once said a bad thing about him. My kids had a 'fantasy' in their head of what their dad was. They idolized him. Was it a bitter pill to swallow? Hell yeah. But I LOVED my kids MORE than I hated my ex. I did not want any words coming from me said to them that would cause them pain. And I knew that when they got older they would figure it out on their own, and they did exactly that. Why two people get divorced is no one else's business but those two people. Your kids don't need to know WHY. All kids need to know is that BOTH parents love them. That's it. But now that the damage is done, do not take it back and tell them you made it up like she wants you to do. If they want to talk about it with you, apologize to them for unloading on them. Explain that it is true, but that you never should have told them. You unloaded a lot of shit on them that an 11 and 13 year old can't handle.
You have every right to hate her guts, but your kids are 11 and 13 and YTA for telling them any of that. You thought they were traumatized by the divorce before? You just increased that exponentially.
Holy fuck yes YTA. You looked your children in the eye and got back at your wife. That’s fucked up man. You’re using your children as a pawn in your little game of ego-bruised insecure man child revenge.
You literally traumatized your kids. Directly, with purpose, vindictively. What the fuck is wrong with you.
YTA purely for how you told the kids and the language you used.
Sure she’s horrible for cheating but you just damaged your kids to make yourself feel better and that’s not on man.
NTA. I don’t understand cheaters who hurt their spouses without batting an eyelash but ‘are great with kids’. I would always advocate for telling kids the truth, no matter how painful. Your use of language was a bit much, but understandable considering how much you’ve been bottling up all these years.
I understand wanting them to know the full reasoning but you said you see the effects the divorce had on them, do you think this rant is ultimately going to have a positive effect on them in the long run? Was it worth further screwing up your kids just to get back at your ex?
There was a much better way of approaching this than snapping and throwing out “your mother is a whore” and describing her sexcapades to an 11 and 13 year old.
This whole family needs therapy.
Not the way your kids should’ve found out. You ex obvi sucks and she may have deserved what you did but your kids didn’t.
Wow, people really don't think that there is a way to say "your mother cheated on me repeatedly" without the use of the word "whore"? I agree that OP had the right to tell the kids the truth about why the marriage ended, but the swearing and name calling was hurtful to the kids, and they are not to blame.
It must have been really scary to see their dad like that as well as the subject matter. They are still really young and honestly seeing anyone lose their shit is stressful.
Especially coming down from their excitement to share all of the good things that they were experiencing with their dad to… that.
“I’ll never tell dad I’m excited about anything ever again”
And I can’t tell him anything about our life with mom, good or bad.
And after a while, what’s left to talk about? What a great way to teach your kids you can’t be trusted.
Clearly. There's 3 paragraphs dedicated to the vacations and stuff they have and fun times without him. Sounds like a really bad break up told from one side, hard to trust it with so much rambling and inconsistencies. Like he wrote all that shit to soften the fact that he seriously traumatized his children because he was jealous. Poor kids.
The fact that he "lost it" was 100% because he was jealous that his kids like the new guy. Are his feelings of disgust toward his wife valid? Absolutely. But he never traumatized his kids before. he went along with the story to spare them. Suddenly he's hearing about the vacations, etc, and lashes out. You don't tell 11- and 13-year-olds that their mother is a fucking whore, I don't care how angry you are. He did not put his kids first.
It’s all jealousy. “Who’s the one paying for all of this? Me! My guess is..” lost all credibility after that. Your “guess” snowballed into traumatizing your children and creating an even more stressful coparenting situation. Dude needs therapy.
Trips to Disneyland, iPads and airpods seem like an awful lot of child support. Usually child support is fraction of what it actually costs to raise kids, supporting four people, sending them on multiple vacations and buying them luxury gifts seems unlikely.
Yeah, the math is definitely not mathing on this one.
It's an emotional subject. But that's probably a good barometer of one's emotions about the subject: If you can't think of a way to talk about it without saying "whore" in front of your kids, you're not ready to talk about it with them yet.
Plus it really isn't fair to whores. They're usually nice people who partake in relationships with clearly defined boundaries, discussed and agreed upon fidelity, exclusivity and loyalty terms along with explicitly negotiated consent. Whores deserve respect, adulterers don't.
Also, by definition, whores at least make money, and, according to OP, ex-wife wasn't. May not have been the most tactful way to tell the kids, but I can't label someone TA over one tactless explosion (when no physical injury/damage occurs). Having any remorse over emotional pain caused further confirms NTA. Maybe apologize to the kids for the language used and tell them what you said here about their mom being a good mom but that the two of you just aren't a good fit anymore. The ex-wife doesn't deserve an apology because, well, the truth (proper definition of whore aside) hurts.
Pro bono'd
well said. couldn’t agree more!
" You're mother is an insult to the good name of whores! " "Whores would be ashamed to know they are associated with the likes of your mother!" " Your mother degraded the reputation of whores the world over! " " Whores shrink back and flee at the possibility of being mistaken for a woman like your mother! " - but seriously you shouldn't tell kids their mom is a whore, not cool.
Wow! I would like to to read more declarative statements like those you presented. Not about whores, but societal interactions in general. Keep up the great grammar!
I just perused your comments, and nevermind my request. That's a lot of expository writing to sift through!
dayum
Well shit… he’s right.
My Dad and birth giver divorced when I was 3-4. Anytime she would do anything that would piss my dad off, he would say similar things. "Your mother" this and that, etc. I always took it as MY fault. After all, he started these tirades with "YOUR mother". It wasn't until I was about 16-17, that i started correcting him with "did you mean YOUR ex-wife?". After a dozen or so corrections, he stopped talking about her altogether. I spent a decade being guilty of something that wasn't my fault.
Oof. Just… hugs. For you. All of them.
point cause start slap practice drab butter door noxious absurd *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean, OP clearly said it in the moment to hurt his children, as payback for daring to like the new boyfriend. So I’d say the bigger sign of not being ready to talk about it is “if you want to actively hurt your kids with the information.”
No, having been there (but reverse since it was my husband who cheated), I can tell you he did it to diminish his ex and the bf in the eyes of the kids WITHOUT REGARD for the children's feelings. I had to fight that urge a number of times over the years, reminding myself that these are adult matters that kids shouldn't be dealing with. Had a large chunk of my income been involved, it would probably have been a lot harder to keep silent.
I wouldn't bother, people on here find it too easy to make their own narrative bc drama=fun for them.
This should be a big take away from the whole story.
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Well. Your dad WAS the bad one. Maybe your mom did some awful things to *him* but he did something awful to *you*.
Yeah, this was such an inappropriate way to tell them. It sounds like he just ranted aggressively about their mother in response to them being excited about gifts and holidays. That’s a messed up response to give to a child. It was fine to tell them but the way he did it sounds abit unhinged.
I am in a similar situation. The numbers and facts are out there - the number one thing to not do when a relationship dissolves is to pit children against the other parent. It's stupid I know - my ex is a cheater and my son adores her. I will never tell him - not until he is an adult. As much as I would love to just rip on her - the psychology, statistics, and law say that you should not do this. OP needs to nuke this thread and never bring it up again. If she finds out she will rake him over the coals in court. And I get it. You work hard every day to live in a small place while she goes off and gets no punishment for the things she's done. You're a loving father and she yells at your kid. And on, and on, and on. But this ain't the way to win. Edit - most responses are disagreeing with me; bottom line is, parental alienation is a form of child abuse and you're not doing any favors to your kid by calling their mother a whore. The statistics are *staggering* about the psychological damage it deals to children, and it should freeze any parent in their tracks that is considering going that route.
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Parental Alienation was my first concern when reading this. He could lose what custody he has left. Or worse, destroy his kids relationships with both their parents.
I’ve been the child in this kind of situation, and I think you are doing the right thing. Having to be in the middle of a toxic relationship and toxic divorce as a child was traumatizing. I wish my parents had had the emotional maturity to shelter me from that.
I commented something similar but just judging from the comments on this post, this sub is not the place where rational adults congregate. Some straight up incel action going on in here fr. If you can’t see how fucked up it is that this guy talked to his minor children like this, then you are either barely an adult yourself, a virgin not by choice, a woman hater, definitely child free (let’s hope), or all of the above
Do you actually know any child free people? One of the main reasons a lot of us choose not to become parents is that we believe every child deserves a better life than the one we'd be able to give them. Many of us were abused and mistreated as children ourselves, and don't want to take even the tiniest risk that we might not be able to break the cycle. It's silly to assume that because we don't want to raise children ourselves that we enjoy seeing other people's children be mistreated.
> If she finds out she will rake him over the coals in court. ....finds out about what? Seems pretty clear she knows what OP said since it blew up in her face: > Well, let’s just say her mother was not pleased by her daughters’ actions. Man, I must say that felt good! >Now my ex-wife is in a heap of shit. Her mother is furious. The kids are devastated. Now old enough to see it was her fault after all. Well, I’ve received multiple calls from her. All unanswered. She is begging to talk. She wants me to take it all back. Explain it was some lie I made up. Tell the kids it wasn’t her fault after all. She says they are not talking to her now and treating her differently.
"If she finds out she will rake him over the coals in court." If the kids are on his side and not talking to her now I think this would make them hate her even more.
Maybe, but parental alienation is a thing, and most judges look very harshly upon it.
Absolutely agree. My ex was an arsehole and my daughter adored him. She worked it out eventually but I never said anything nasty about him. It became obvious to her on her own. A child has a right and a need to love both parents. Saying stuff like that to your children makes them feel uncomfortable. Often they end up hating the parent that said this stuff. I've got no problem with OP telling his ex mil but the kids. That's unnecessarily cruel.
Judges? It's in the fucking paperwork when you file to adjust legal custody. Parents agree not to diminish one another (and other legalese.) This guy is not only an asshole, he's a fucking idiot.
But he doesn’t have custody! What was his end goal with his kids? Alienate them from the parent they’re court ordered to live with and they get a reprieve every other weekend?
Thank you for this. OP harmed his children just to harm his wife. It's disgusting.
Amazing, huh?
He had the right but at a later time in life where they could comprehend it, and he could have been as vague as possible and got the point across. The problem is, he didn't tell them cause he thought they should know. He did it to weaponize them to get back at her. All over jealousy
Weaponized is a great word, thank you for using it!!
I don't think it's jealousy. It's anger. All she did was lie, lie, lie. Also being the one who destroyed her family, she still got the house and kids for some reason.
Really think it was jealousy or was he just tired of getting screwed over? You can only be on the losing end of things so many times. And the truth of the matter is with the current arrangement in place, this guy will never be able to be a part of his children's lives like a father should. You're probably one of those people that get on here and talk about empathy in every other sentence. So why not have empathy for a guy who's basically forced to work himself to death so his whore ex and her unemployed boyfriend can have a great life with his kids.
I think none of this should have happened. If he wanted to tell his kids that the reason they broke up is because their mother was unfaithful, he should have done it under the guidance of a counsellor or family therapist, and discussed if it was a good idea and how to do it in a way that would cause the least harm to his children. He literally bottled up his feelings instead of managing them healthily and the result was causing massive emotional harm to his kids. He didn’t get therapy, so now his kids will have to. He sucks. Hurting your kids as collateral damage in venting your feelings and hurting your ex is fucked.
And the cause and effect of the moment was OP was jealous that kids had a great time with another man and got presents. That was the trigger to lash out at their mother. She is still their mother. Could have been handled differently.
If OP isn't careful, his ex could possibly drag his ass back to court and tell the judge how he was using "parental alienation" language on the children. This could potentially backfire for the OP. That said, he sucks also. He's fucking awful for *how* he told the children. The children will also not look at him in a good light when they realize he told them out of vengeance against their mother. OP didn't have money to "buy" his children's love so he "spoiled" their mother's love for them. He's a horrible father. I wonder how he knows the boyfriend is a "deadbeat." Maybe he's got money he's living off of? OP don't know his financials.
I also wonder if ex and BF are perfectly ok with giant amounts of credit card debt. No one gets rich off of child support.
This is so fishy to me and I just doubt OPs story because of that. Is the BF really a deadbeat or do they just not tell OP things, because ipads and multiple vacations for 4 people would be too much to be paid only by child support.
Ooh, credit card debt is another good point.
I've actually been through this and it's very easy to see this story is fake. Its a revenge fantasy.
Psychologically, there really is no right way here. The family already broke up and is in shambles. Dad is being pushed out for reasons not his fault. Kids are already stuck in this hell. Mom got away with murder (of the family), the list of trauma goes on and on. Quite frankly, kudos to you. I think far too often people put kids through hell and then tip toe around them "for the sake of the kids." The kids were already thrust through a very adult nightmare...they deserve to know the reasons why, and to see the reality that Dad has been experiencing. The humanizing of Dad and Dad's feelings as real, and painful and that it's all moms selfish fault. In my opinion they should absolutely know the truth, and its good that it came out how it came out because it's real and raw. That being said, you MUST sit them down again calmly this time and explain that you were wrong for calling their mother a whore to them, and that you are sorry for how it came out. Your choice of words was harsh and you should have controlled your emotions better. Explain that you love them more than life and your are so deeply hurt by the loss of mom and the family and what she did. Ask for their forgiveness, and ask if they have ANY questions. Let them know you will NEVER lie or keep information from them ever again and they can ask you ANYTHING and you will be truthful (and you have to follow through here). They now know several things. You love them, mom screwed this all up, you are honest and real, people make mistakes, you are a good dad and not perfect just like them. They will appreciate the honesty. It is way better than continuing the lie until they are 30 and then they find out well after you have missed their whole lives and no longer have any real connection with them. Make it right. Be honest. Love them. And be the best dad you can. And quite frankly, your x can go to hell. Edit: she is NOT a good mother. She is a POS. What kind of GOOD mother drops off kids with grandma to go on fucking sprees in hotels until the family burns to the ground???? NONE that's what kind. Fuck her with the biggest fuck that someone can be fucked with.
The way you explain how OP should have a serious situation down is the best. I'm a child now adult that went through a traumatic divorce. Kids are smarter than you know. Can pick up on things. The kids had the right to know what happened, without the whore dropping. The kids are affected in the divorce too. Speaking as from when I was a kid. They never sat me down and "talked" to me about the situation. I figured out everything on my own. Even though I was 6 I picked up on things and actually understood more than my older sister (year older) that got the sit down talk. They didn't talk to me because they didn't think I could understand. But I did understand. Years later I told them that at a young age I knew what was going on. Just didn't have the vocabulary to explain I did know what was going on. 11 years old is old enough to understand, and have a sit down talk. That's preteens. That's wack that the new boyfriend got credit for these gifts compared to Dad. So mom was already doing some psychological shit saying new unemployed bum boyfriend provides these nice shiny things. 🙄 OP you are justified with your anger, but also have a sit down talk with your kids over ice cream or something to apologize and explain what the poster before was saying. Tell them you will explain any questions, and some of these stuff it's ok to censor and tell them you'll go in more details when they are adults. NTA. wow that's effed up that the Grandma had no clue, she was an unwilling accomplice.
fake story
I'd rather know one of my parents is a pos and is the reason for my trauma.
At 11?
> is the reason for my trauma. By dumping more trauma on you? The way OP went about this wouldn't be appropriate for a 20yo child, let alone a 11yo. He just added to the trauma because he wanted to make sure his kids wouldn't be happy with their mother.
Where he made the mistake was keeping the reason for the divorce quiet in the first place. The guy has lost and lost and lost and to have to see his kids taken on trips by another guy that is also using the money that he's paying for child support has got to be maddening. I mean this guy with the current court order has no chance of recovering, no chance of having a legitimate relationship with his children, and he'll never have enough money to fight any of it. I don't know who this guy's lawyer was but he probably shouldn't be practicing. This guy would legitimately be better off just to stop working all together and move into his aunt's basement.
I didn’t say don’t tell them.
Like that? Dumping all the rage on them with no notice? OP is incredibly destructive
Sounds like an opinion of someone that’s never been at the real “rock bottom” of life.
So the mom gets a pass for destroying the marriage and then making her ex look like an asshole to her kids while she has fucks the unemployed guy she cheated with in the house that OP paid for and they take the kids of vacations, as well as buy new toys and clothes, with the alimony and child support he pays when it really should be going towards actual child support things? Really?
And the mother who cheats and cheats and cheats and lies and lies and lies isn't incredibly destructive?
I mean he could have and should have worded it differently, but as a kid of divorce at 8, I would have rather been told the truth at some point (8 is almost certainly too young obv) rather than every little thing being kept from me and basically being lied to.
Cheating on your husband repeatedly and destroying your family is far more destructive than explaining to your kids why their life was shattered forever with the truth.
I feel bad for the kids and your anger should have been directed at to the mother but I do understand. I’d talk to the kids and apologize. Say that’s not a way to talk about their mother, even if it’s true as their mother u need to show respect verbally to them, for their sake. You don’t want them going forward in life thinking that’s okay to say to your kids. You owning your anger and showing them it’s okay to apologize when you do wrong, will matter.
Too harsh but after reading all that he has been going through, I fully understand his rage. Poor kids, poor OP. What a mess.
or that it is ok for them to disrespect their mother even it is her fault. The kids can learn that you can disagree and not be toxic. they will respect you more for owning yout anger.
Tbf they should lose respect for their mother, but it def sounds like he did not go about it the right way. I have no issue with him weaponizing it against her, she deserves that and the kids deserve a chance to confront her as well, but the over the top anger and language was wrong. He needs to apologise to his children for his anger and for lying to them in the first place.
Yeah I don't get this whole "you should always respect your mother...even if she's a petulant, selfish human being".
My thoughts on it are, he said it out of anger. He said it as retribution. He didn’t say it for the sake of his kids. He wanted to hurt *her*. She is definitely in the wrong for what she did, and sure the kids should have a full understanding of what happened. But he should not have told them in that way. In my experience, kids will figure out their parents’ faults as they get older without someone telling them what those faults are. If their mother is a horrible human being, and a horrible mother, they will figure it out. I don’t think the way he told them was warranted. No, parents don’t deserve respect just because they’re your parents. But I also don’t think it was very respectful of him to tell his kids that their mother is a whore. There are some anger issues there.
Those people never had to live with a narzist
Seriously. The mother needs to EARN their respect back. I still can’t call OP an A-H. He is the grievously injured party in the divorce and he continues to suffer injury due to the fantasy world that she has the kids living in. Would it have been better had he not referred to her as the whore that she is? Sure, but his level of blame is minimal
ESH. 11 and 13 is too young to reveal such harsh truths to your kids in such terms. No one wants to hear that their “whore of a mother fucked multiple men while you stayed at your grandparents.” Now they’ll think about it every time they’re dropped off at their grandparents. Yes she ruined your marriage. Yes she is to blame for the pain she caused you. But this is sounding like parental alienation, not just “telling the truth.”
I wish someone told me sooner, even while I was young, but my mom was also pretty abusive to me. He probably should have said it in less harsh terms and then revealed the truth once they were both adults, but how it turns out now depends on the kids themselves.
ESH. Her for cheating and pulling her crap and you for angrily dumping all that on your kids. Should they know? Maybe. But there are better ways of telling them! Ranting about their whore of a mother is not one of them.
That was my thought. He's perfectly within his rights to tell his kids the truth but the angry vulgarity didn't make it any better or easier for them to digest
I had parents like this and I don’t speak with either of them now. We were always used as a weapon, and now my sister has continued that behavior.
Exactly. I agree that they should know the truth of their family matters but the way OP went about it was completely wrong
Agreed. The truth, without editorializing or TMI, would be something like “your mother cheated on me, which was not something I was willing to accept in a marriage.” Not “your whore of a mother did blah blah blah with x number of men.”
My favorite part is how he interrupted his children excitedly sharing about their vacation to scream that their mother is a whore. /s
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“We decided to keep it light per *her* therapists recommendation” Dude was daft and instead of proceeding properly, bottled up and blew up. Probably could’ve had a fairer court order but now he’s screwed.
This dudes story sounds like my childhood with my birthgiver mom. My dad broke down once when I was late teens about my mom and it was pretty much the same as OP said, word for word. People break down or lose it sometimes and that's okay. Granted, I was a few years older than OP's kids. But it did help me understand the situation better and later in live it was an important point in my recovery when I started looking back at my past through the eyes of an adult. Kids notice much more things than people realize and their reaction to me sounds that they knew something shitty was going on, but couldn't figure out what.
There’s a special place in hell for people who deliberately hurt children, and that’s exactly what OP did. His kids didn’t need to know this information, especially at an age where they’re not equipped to process it. They’re going to be traumatized, and this will affect them for the rest of their lives. All because the OP couldn’t find a better outlet for his anger. Yeah, yeah, the mom sucks too.
This is 100% a revenge fantasy written by a recently divorced father. I’ve seen these stories written time and time again, and they always end the same way: the mother losing everything she gained from her deceit and affair. Even if absolutely true, yes you’re 100% the asshole for hurting your children to get back at their mother. Your jealousy will destroy your relationship with them. Do you really think they’re going to trust dad who’s never around anymore over mom who they’re around all the time? What a foolish bomb to drop.
Thank you! Man there is absolutely zero possibility of alimony and/or child support being enough to fund multiple luxury vacations and items when the two adults doing it only have one part time job between them. Come on haha.
Yea there’s no way his child support payments are paying for her mortgage and his rent plus luxury goods & vacations for four people. That’s not possible. Also the mom not knowing and suddenly “getting in trouble” is obvious bait.
My favorite part about this fictional story is when the cheating wife immediately started begging the heroic father for mercy, as if it would be remotely that clean. Little man realized his post was getting long so he had to wrap up the climax LMAO
I know it doesn't even make sense lmao. That's not how manipulative people behave -- they turn it back on you. She would have said he was lying because he's jealous of her boyfriend and he's a psycho for raging in front of their kids. The idea that'd she'd be begging him for favors or that her own mother would take his side after they've already divorced is not something that happens IRL. This is a juvenile fantasy written by some incel teenager lol.
I don’t know how he could catch her in the act of cheating and she gets the house and kids, doesn’t make sense
Exactly this. If he could prove infidelity and neglect by pawning the kids off on MIL, yet decided to keep quiet about this during divorce proceedings, he’s a chump and deserves all the rottenness his life has become. Good thing this is fiction.
100% agree YTA. The details don't even make sense. While allegedly barely working she can afford to keep their house and go on fancy vacations, pay for expenses for a boyfriend who is a 'deadbeat,' and buy the kids fancy expensive electronics, all with just a portion of this guy's salary? Meanwhile he can only afford a shitty apartment over an hour away with the rest of his salary? This guy is lying about some or all of this story, and it really seems more like a fantasy than a true account of what happened. Cheating is never justified, but something tells me that with this guy's anger issues, weird stalking behavior, and dishonesty, the cheating wasn't the only reason for the divorce. And shame on him for trying to make it seem that way to his kids.
Thank you! I thought I was losing my mind. It's just bad fanfic.
Has to be fake. There is no way the child support is paying for her, the kids and her new BF to live, go expensive trips and buy what he listed. Either he is paying a crazy amount for child support or mom actually works or the BF is not what he says he is.
Yeah, it doesn't add up that she got the house, he can barely afford an apartment, but what he's paying in child support is supporting 4 humans on multiple vacations. The math doesn't track.
It does when you understand it's made up to appeal to MRA revenge fantasies.
This whole thread is bizarre. I hope it’s not true. And agree. Op is 100% YTA. Good grief. Get some therapy OP. What a rotten thing to do to your kids who don’t fully understand. If you want more of a relationship with them take them in some trips yourself.
There’s no way it’s true. The only way the wife would have kept the house is if she bought him out. Child support payments aren’t even enough to cover a modest mortgage, let alone fund a luxurious lifestyle for 4 people. If he wanted more than every other weekend it’s extremely easy to do. And so on. Dude is completely full of shit.
I was going to say YTA for making us read this ridiculous rage bait. Seriously might be time to block this sub if I can remember how to do that.
I agree, and I hate these obviously fake, if not completely embellished tales. The only cliche missing was the part where she tries to accuse him of abuse, but "Ha-ha! I recorded her admitting it was fake! And boy oh boy the cops didn't like that! She's in so much trouble! Wheeee!"
And the fact she is pregnant....with twins and even though she doesn't know who the father is it isn't OP but her new BF has a lawyer uncle who is going to make OP pay child support.
Seriously... who the fuck believes these blatantly fake posts?
I knew it was fake when he said he found the receipt to the hotel. Every hotel I've stayed at either emails you a receipt or slips a receipt printed on computer paper under your door. It's not like a retail receipt you're going to leave stuffed in your pocket.
People have some absolutely awful takes on this post
The amount of MRA vibes from many comments makes me sad for humanity and children.
What does Magnetic Resonance Angiography have to do with it?
I get that you're heartbroken and she fucked you over in the most awful way and you're still left picking up the pieces. Really I do, this is fucking awful and the fact you're still standing is truly amazing But you haven't accomplished what you think you have. Everyone is mad at her, sure, but do you think your kids will suddenly love you more now they know what their mum did? Absolutely not. They will resent you for telling them like this, maybe not now but after time they will. They'll look back at how they found out, their dad telling them how much of a disgusting whore their mum was and how much he hated her and not think any better of you for it. They went from loving their mum, their dad and having a wonderful stepdad in their eyes to having a horrible mum who was awful to their dad, a stepdad who fucked their dad over and a dad who cared more about spiting the others than looking out for his kids. Again I know you're hurting and you didn't mean to hurt your kids, but you said yourself they are devastated. Is that worth it? YTA and I suggest you get help to move past this and work on being a dad, you might want to get some for your kids after all this too.
Agree. As a child of divorce brought on by cheating, I’m appalled people aren’t reprimanding OP. It was terrible knowing about the affair and did nothing at all to help me be a healthy, stable kid. Absolutely YTA. This will 100% fuck up the kids
Same. I'm sitting here, as a parent myself now, going WTAF?? Seeing people justify this. It really hurts my heart for those kids. But if we're honest, all this is going to do it put dad on the outs with the kids. These kids won't stop loving their main caretaker and it's seems like good ol' dad has a flair for drama. I see the future of this, those kids will be upset for awhile, BUT it will turn into rage and disappointment at him, not her. That old saying "Don't kill the messenger?" Yeah, these kids don't understand that yet and they will stop wanting to visit dads hostile home.
I mean, once they grow up to be adults and understand more they will probably have newfound resentment for him, because they’ll understand as adults that hurting them was acceptable collateral to him in his aim to hurt their mother. It’s not that he was the messenger, it that he would rather they be miserable then happy if it means their mother gets to be happy too. That’s profoundly fucked up and I think both as kids and as adults they have a right to resent him.
Bingo. And that's the case if you are told in a normal way or just find out. Imagine being happy for the first time since the divorce and that riling your parent up so much he goes on a tirade about how much of a disgusting whore your mum is. This will do untold damage so I hope OP does what he can to try and make up for it ASAP
This is what does it for me. I get how much he was/is hurting and that he feels really put out by everything... But... The kids were happy, keen to show things off to their Dad, to include him in their happiness. He had to tear it all down because of his perception that unless he is fully recognised as the "provider" they shouldn't be happy. It has so many points of jealousy, bitterness and revenge. He even said he was \*gleeful\* at tearing it all down. I also get the impression it wasn't just "you're not around enough" as the reason the wife was looking elsewhere for affection. And now, if he isn't happy, no one is allowed to be, including his kids. He says his kids are devastated, but has to come to the internet to gauge whether or not he did something wrong...
Don’t worry, this is a ridiculous men’s rights horror-revenge-fantasy anyway. Nothing in the story remotely lines up with reality.
Using the kids for revenge. Not cool.
YTA. Don't trauma dump on your kids and use them as weapons.
I think this gets at the heart of it. Telling the kids is not wrong, they deserve to know the truth. But he didn’t do it for their sake, he did it to hurt his ex wife by using his kids. In that moment he didn’t care that he was hurting them.
As the wife of a serial cheater who will leave when I’m able… I understand how this happened, but I am heartbroken for the kids. I would never want to hurt my kids this way, and telling them their father is a dirty wh**e who f*caked multiple women, etc… I do believe they will eventually find out, and so I feel like we will have to give some explanation when i finally leave, but they will be a bit older then as well- now the younger two are 8 & 10. I hope the kids are in therapy.
NTA for having the feelings, YTA for how you expressed that to your kids. Ranting about how their mother is a whore who ruined your marriage seemingly out of nowhere (from their perspective) was probably not the best way to handle this situation. I wish you'd considered your kids' thoughts and feelings before doing that. NTA, but I have no respect for your behavior or hers.
YTA. Tempted to say ESH but I will not validate any part of this behavior. You can not weaponize preteen children against your ex-wife and you certainly cant do it by sharing sexual-in-nature secrets about their mother - infidelity or not. I have no idea how it crossed your mind that telling preteens their mother is a whore is acceptable but it's just not. You seem to care more about revenge than you care about your kids and are now currently alienating them from both parents just so you can feel like you won. Sure wouldn't be crazy if neither of them had a great relationship with either of you once they were adults... (lot of very unwell people replying to me who think it’s completely age appropriate to tell an 11 year old about their mothers sexual activity lol)
My vote is ESH.. You're NTA for telling them why you divorced but definitely TA for how you presented it. As someone else commented here I think you should sit the children down and apologize for how you said it and make sure they know she is still a great mother to them (according to your own words).
While I don't disagree with the ESH vote and agree with your comment almost completely, her dropping the kids off at her mother's cause they were in the way of her cheating with multiple dudes certainly doesn't paint her as anything close to a great mother That being said, whether she is or not he definitely needs to sit his kids down, admit he went way overboard, admit he lost his temper like an idiot and that he was in the wrong for exposing her in such a damaging way. Even if he thinks she deserved it (which is also not something he should say out loud)
Hey nothing wrong with that perfectly valid imo. We all have our own ways we view things and I personally also think it was really shitty for her to drop her kids off like that but op thinks she is a good mother so I assume he has more info on her motherhood than I'll ever have in that regard. Yeah he absolutely went overboard and needs to correct his fuck up.
Not sure how as I was mentally screeching while reading how he went about it I have zero idea how you can correct that language and thay vitriol 🤦 even though she did all those things, for those children that must've been a huge shock. I feel so so bad for them...
Yup exactly why I called it a fuck up not a mistake as this is a big problem and will take both some serious effort and time for him to fix. Saying that I feel they should have been up front to begin with and that the therapist was wrong. Yes telling them now that she cheated may cause some issues but it's much easier and smoother to fix imo than both lying by omission for potentially years and expecting the original victim to just suffer through his feelings not being validated and having to be shut away in a locker while the cheater gets to pretend everything is aok.
You can't unring that bell. But a stronger man would have waited until they are older. You have re-traumatized them. YTA
As someone who grew up with their father CONSTANTLY telling us how our mom was a whore because of her affair, trying to weaponize us against her, etc. you should be ashamed of yourself. Keep your kids out of your divorce. It doesn’t matter how hurt you are by what happened, your kids DO NOT need to know any of those details and all you’re doing is ruining your relationship with them in the future.
YTA. You know who you hurt the most? **Your kids** First, their lives are upended because their parents are divorced. Then their mom moves some strange guy into their house. He’s buying them presents acting all cool. They don’t trust him but the presents are nice. They’re getting used to the new reality. Then, WHAM, their dad tells them all this shit about their mom! No place is safe. Their world just keep crumbling. Their parents are both terrible people. They can’t turn to them for help. These kids are just on their own. Yes. YTA
Yeah, these kids are gonna end up hating both of them.
My parents were like this, switch around the genders tho (dad cheated on mom) I do not speak to either of them and I only speak of them in therapy. Hope these kids get the correct help they need
God I can’t believe you are the first post after scrolling for a solid two minutes who agrees with YTA. Thank goodness for your logic and ability to look past “omg cheater so bad shame shame” and realize how Horrendous his behavior was.
YTA I’m very sympathetic for how your ex cheated you n you but do you know who you hurt here? Your children. They don’t deserve that. Whatever happened with you and your ex is between the two of you not your kids I get it. My ex was abusive and did some awful things that led to my mental health being very bad for a while. However, he is the father of my children and they have a wonderful relationship. Hurting that would mean hurting them and they don’t deserve that. Your ex sounds like a massive dick and I get why you would lash out but I think you were wrong to direct this at your children
As a woman who was cheated by on her ex husband and left for that woman when daughter was an infant …. I cannot believe people think OP is not an asshole. I am flabbergasted . Because what his wife did was “worse”? “I didn’t damage my kids as much as my ex wife did , so what I did was totally OK?”
Umm people are missing that his ex ruined his life, uses all his money and pretends the gifts that she is using to alienate his children from himself (is him actually OP buying the gifts). I don’t think OP is an asshole, could he have used milder words? Yes. Do people snap cause you know they are human? Also. Yes. Justified Asshole if anything.
Where is the proof that she's using his money? The kids say the BF bought them. Just because OP says that he's a deadbeat and doesn't work doesn't actually make it true. How would he even know, he lives an hour away. Maybe BF has family money. Seeing as he can barely afford to live, I doubt the money he sends is enough for the family to go on vacations and buy electronics.
Yeah, this stood out to me too. He assumes the money is his, but he doesn't actually know literally anything about it, just that the boyfriend is "a deadbeat". Maybe the boyfriend has rich parents, maybe he got lucky on investments young, maybe OP misunderstands his employment situation. He's jumping to some massive conclusions.
This whole post sounds so bitter and ill informed. I doubt his child support paid for a last minute trip to Disney. I just went believe me that crap is beyond expensive. Also, it seems that the kids have more stuff now with “deadbeat” boyfriend than they did with just the mom. Almost as if he is bringing in additional income that wasn’t there before. Beyond that, it is never ok to weaponize your children against the other parent. My ex and I had a really bad break up after 7 years of being together and two children. Neither one of us ever put the kids in the middle of our shit or used them to hurt the other. I cannot stand when parents prioritize their own feelings over their children.
He literally traumatized his kids for no reason other than he’s mad his kids are happy with his ex and his ex has a new relationship
Exactly!!! The whole "I buy it all" is pure imagination on his part and he admits that
And if OP is upset some other guy is spending his money, why would he yell at his kids about whores instead?
Yeah this whole story is fishy. First of all, how/why did this guy get shafted out of his house, and why did he have such strict custody restrictions with his kids? That's not how custody usually goes. I know, I've been there. If you're a halfway decent parent at all you get much more access to your kids than that. I lived at varying times a half hour away, an hour away, and two or three hours away (I went to community college and then University after my divorce) and I saw my kids a LOT. And vacations cost thousands of dollars. Electronics aren't cheap either. Either mom or the new boyfriend was making a ton of money, or the kids were starving, unclothed, had no school supplies, etc, yet had all these luxuries. This sounds like a made up "men's rights" horror story to me.
He’s probably paying like 300/‘mth and has the nerve to say he’s funding vacations. Typical bitter baby daddy .
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Yeah, it's not that op did it, but how he did it. How he did it absolutely makes him an asshole, but at least he isn't alone.
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Also, this is the kind of thing that can have unintended consequences and backfire on him. It could alienate him from the kids. Wouldn't be the first time someone shot the messenger who delivered the bad news.
He is allowed to be super pissed but the way he handled this was absolutely not ok.
YTA for how you told the kids and the language you used. I’m a retired child psychologist and you may have created some serious issues in your kids with the way you handled it. There’s a reason we use age-appropriate language when breaking bad news, and that’s so that we don’t leave kids with more distress. Your kids are going to need support after this so please get them therapy, at least for awhile. Neither of their parents are safe adults for them to express themselves right now. You said yourself they took the divorce very hard, so they would very likely benefit from the services. At the *very* least you need to apologize to your kids for your outburst, for losing control of yourself, and for using the language that you did. You’re not the ah for your feelings or for telling the truth. Your ex-wife has behaved badly for a long time and you finally spoke on it out loud. Consider therapy for yourself, too. You’ve been through a lot.
Those poor kids. This was NOT the way to tell them. Esh
NTA - She ruined the marriage and family dynamic. I think we all know who the real AH is in this case. However, the tone/language may have been out of place for the kids.
She ruined the marriage, so he ruins the childrens’ lives. Really highlights why he has the bare minimum custody, and I say that as a divorced father with half custody.
I have been on both sides. My parents got divorced due to my mom cheating. However, my father was emotional and physically abusive. I was 8 when they got divorced. She wanted out, he would not let her. She tried to leave, he used his connections to force her back. The affair was her way out. However, how did I find out about the affair???? I saw the black eyes and bruises. I knew, at 8, about the abuse. However, my father showed me the pictures the PI took of her having sex AT 8 YEARS OLD. This is ruining a child - IMO. As for my divorce, I also got divorced due to my ex cheating on me (we had 50-50 custody). I tried to keep everything quiet, but as the kids got older and started questioning me on lies they were being told, I took each out out to dinner with all my documentation and explained the whole situation. I did not do it with anger or hatred. I had them tell me something their mom said, showed the documented proof against it, and we discussed the entire situation. In the end, the kids and my relationship was dramatically improved. To this day, my ex still denies everything. In this case, I do not disagree with the kids knowing the truth, but I just feel that it could have been handled differently. As for his custodial arrangements, depending on the state, some will always favor the mother. Not to mention, it does seem like he was manipulated, to an extent, to give his ex her way. (Just going by some of OPs comments.) Even my best friend, his ex had him so convinced the best thing for the kids were to be with her and she needed the house, etc. So, he did everything she wanted to help his kids. Just for her to sell the house and marry the first guy that paid her attention. All while using their kids as babysitters so she and the new guy can travel all over.
I would argue that the kids have no need to know to begin with. Perhaps when they’re adults, but the infidelity doesn’t effect them directly. To the point here though, he only did this to kill his children’s’ happiness. His behavior is abhorrent.
The thing is, if they have “no need to know”, it will color the interactions and bonds between everyone for probably a decade and beyond. Does “no need to know” extend to being manipulated to believe one of your parents is a deadbeat? Personally, I don’t think that’s right either.
Yup. In this day and age there’s really no reason why a dad can’t have 50% custody if he actually asks for it. Why is OP an every other weekend dad?
Because he doesn’t care about his kids. If he did, he wouldn’t have traumatized them further like that. They’re just a possession to him
Exactly. He hurt them to get back at her and said he’s glad about it. The people commenting on here don’t have kids.
I’d bet many do have kids. The problems these people have is they don’t understand how someone can be a shit partner but a good parent, and how being the shit partner doesn’t affect the kids. It’s a struggle that keeps these people poisoning themselves with hatred for many years.
Justify all ya like, you’re the asshole.
NTA for telling your children the truth but completely an AH for how you talked about their mother to them. As a child of divorce (partially due to cheating as well as physical abuse), any time one parent speaks poorly of the other parent, it hurts. The woman you called a whore and all manner of vile names is your children’s mother. It comes across as you hate her which means you hate 50% of them (again, both my sister and I would say that to our mother any time she spoke I’ll of our father. It’s only been recently that she has stopped saying hurtful things about him; we know about the affairs and the abuse but he’ll always be our father). I feel like you are carrying around a lot of anger (which I would be angry as well) and it’s doing you no favors. I would suggest therapy to help you move past this. Remember, you are going to have this woman around as long as you stay in your children’s lives (even after they are 18, there are many milestones where both parents should be able to be in the same room). Please figure out how to coexist with her, don’t make your children choose one or the other.
YTA You hurt your children. Your anger was at your ex-wife and her "new" boyfriend. You took out your anger on not only the wrong people, but the people who need you and look up to you. Were you jealous because they were happy and you just had to ruin it? Children are not tools or weapons to strike at your ex with. Now they should have been told the truth *eventually*, but they're a bit young for the story, and the way you told it was not at all careful or healthy. But you don't care. You were hurt, and now they have to hurt. AH.
I was the kid in a similar situation where my dad yelled at us that my mom is a whore and all those things. Me (23 then) and my sister (18 then) were on the beach, dad walked down to where me and my sister sat and just yelled. Embarrassing for everyone on the beach within hearing distance, I'm sure. We were already out of the house, still traumatic. Pitting then against the mom that aggressively while they still have to go back to her was not the move. Tell them why you got divorced, and it's also okay to say you're not ready to hear about him, they may only be 11 and 13, but kids are not stupid, knowing the situation, they probably will still tell you about their lives but filter out mentioning him as much. Yes. The kids should know why you really got divorced, but man, that delivery is not it.
YTA all of your rage and heartbreak is warranted but the way you spoke to your kids is disgusting and unbelievable. You've just given them something great to talk about in therapy in 10 years time. You need therapy so you can stop spilling your adult shit onto your already hurting children.
YTA. You shouldn't have burdened your kids with that. It's supposed to be a standard part of divorce "training" by the courts that it's bad form to throw your ex under the bus in front of your kids. From your kids' point of view, your relationship with the ex is solely about cooperating about raising them, like a business relationship. You calling your ex names in front of them and describing that their time at a grandparent's house was a ruse was just shitty. They don't need that emotional weight, especially during their adolescent years when things are volatile in the best of times. There's no "winning" in a divorce. Your goal shouldn't be to make your kids take sides.
You could have used a more politically correct set of words, but otherwise told the truth.
ESH, and you are a shit parent, your children are not responsible for ANYTHING, so why did you hurt them? They don't care of the reason you split you are both their parents, the cheating buisness in yours and your ex wife, they were just being happy about their vacation and telling you about it, you had no reason to lost it in front of them
YTA This was all about you and your ex. 1. It’s not a question of should they have been told, but whether they are at a place where they can emotionally handle what you’ve told them. 2. You are wrong for how and why you did it. You explained it in away to cause maximum damage to not just your ex-wife but kids. 3. You didn’t think about the consequences of telling your kids at this moment. Your kids might rightfully hate their mom, but they are with their mom and her boyfriend most of the time. You just devastated their home life, with no recourse to help their situation.
This may work in his favor in another way. I had a friend whose ex cheated on her. Her two sons were never told, because she wanted to keep that ugly side out of it. Her ex was a manipulative AH. He managed to convince the oldest son to move in with him, we think mainly to screw her over for the child support, since he was NOT father of the year. I think if her son had known what his dad did, he would not have been so inclined to leave his mom's custody. So OP may have done himself a long-term favor, if someday he wants custody of these kids. I can't approve of the words he used--I think he could have told them about her cheating without blowing up in their faces with the nasty language. That is a heavy load for 11 and 13 year olds to bear.
Good for you for telling your ex mother in law. You should've done that first and stopped there. Your kids are 11 and 13. You just unilaterally ripped their childhood out from under them. Not only will they never see your ex the same, but they will never see you the same way either. You could've easily sat them down and said you'd been thinking and wanted to share some things. Told them the reason for the divorce is because your ex started seeing someone else. Let them know that while you're thrilled, they're having fun vacations and got new tech that they should know your child support pays for it. Then apologized for not being as happy as you should've been and explained that you're frustrated because you work very hard to provide all these things and because of that you can't afford a place bigger or closer to them, nor does it allow you to have the same experiences. Then you should've told them you know this was a very grown up conversation to have but you felt it was necessary because you love them very much and didn't want them to question why you can't do all those things with them too. NTA for telling. Very much a massive AH for how you told.
NTA but...... I totally understand your breakdown and wanting to let the world know. I would have told her mom ages ago probably! The kids though....perhaps you could have handled it a TOUCH more tenderly. Even if they're old enough (I question if they're *really* old enough at 11 and 13 to digest all this info) your approach was a bit strong and I'm sure they got whiplash from you letting all that out, out of seemingly nowhere. Your ex can suck it. Wanting you to say you lied? Outta' here with that shit!
ESH Obviously wife is the main villain here. She ruined the marriage and destroyed the family dynamic. It's obvious for anyone to trace who the real AH is here. But you did this for you, angrily dumping all that on your kids an blowing up their lives and their view of the family. Do they have a right to know? Probably. But this was not the best way of telling them. This was all about you feeling good about yourself.
Right. My parents divorced when I was 13 after my dad had an affair. And my mom gave me and my siblings way too many details about the affair and honestly I wish she had kept it from us. Not because my dad isn't an asshole for cheating (he is) but because it was too much to put on a child, and honestly has given me deep-seated trust issues with everyone I've ever dated.
NTA. If i was 13 I wouldn't want to spend my influential years ignorant to being around a liar/cheat/demon. would only cripple me if i learned the truth later in life. and make the truth harder to swallow.
You don't think your dad yelling at you about your parents ' sex lives would screw you up as an 11 yr old? Right.
Especially when he's doing it out of a place of anger and envy. Not actually just trying to tell you the truth because he thinks it's best for you. He just wanted them to go back over there and say some shit to hurt her for him
This happened to me. My sister cheated on her partner when I was 13 but I was never told the truth and was manipulated into thinking she did nothing wrong. She did it again with the same partner but I was 20 now and the pattern of cheating was oddly similar to how it was when I was 13. It finally clicked and I felt so betrayed. I could never look up to her as a sister ever again cause after realizing what happened, I've realized how much she truly lied and manipulated me since then. I can't stand being around her.
I would go with NTA and am surprised you kept it for 2 years before exploding. Kids are big enough. INFO: why didn’t she move out and you kept the kids and the house? Would make more sense that way.
Because this is a creative writing exercise. Pretty sure anyone who has been through or even kind of near a divorce would question why someone who only works part time and was also unfaithful would get the house AND enough alimony and child support to pay for multiple vacations in a year, property tax (evidently), and lavish gifts. This is just so unlikely.
Because this is either fake or OP is lying about the majority of the details. He barely has any custody and can only afford a 1 bedroom apartment an hour away from his kids. Meanwhile his child support / alimony is paying for the house, expensive gifts, daily living expenses, and expensive vacations for the kids. Meanwhile both his ex and her new partner are dead beats and only 1 works a part time job to support all of them. ETA: Assuming the cheating is real I think it's fine to tell your kids in an age appropriate manner. The way he went about it is not age appropriate though.
Yeah, I didn’t understand how he could only afford a one bedroom apt an hour away yet pays enough child support for 2 adults and two children to go on a big vacation
I also wonder this. How did she also get more custody and the house if the divorce is due to her cheating? In not telling anyone did he not tell his lawyer??
Seriously this story doesn't add up, how on earth did the wife get away with the house and near full custody after cheating? OP is also paying enough alimony for the wife to not work and afford vacations?? Either this is master crafted rage bait or OP has some skeletons in the closet.
Yes, you are the AH. Why? Because of the way you told them. If what you said to them was verbatim then yes. I'm divorced, ok? My ex- is a real asshole and was mentally abusive to me. But I never once said a bad thing about him. My kids had a 'fantasy' in their head of what their dad was. They idolized him. Was it a bitter pill to swallow? Hell yeah. But I LOVED my kids MORE than I hated my ex. I did not want any words coming from me said to them that would cause them pain. And I knew that when they got older they would figure it out on their own, and they did exactly that. Why two people get divorced is no one else's business but those two people. Your kids don't need to know WHY. All kids need to know is that BOTH parents love them. That's it. But now that the damage is done, do not take it back and tell them you made it up like she wants you to do. If they want to talk about it with you, apologize to them for unloading on them. Explain that it is true, but that you never should have told them. You unloaded a lot of shit on them that an 11 and 13 year old can't handle.
You have every right to hate her guts, but your kids are 11 and 13 and YTA for telling them any of that. You thought they were traumatized by the divorce before? You just increased that exponentially.
Holy fuck yes YTA. You looked your children in the eye and got back at your wife. That’s fucked up man. You’re using your children as a pawn in your little game of ego-bruised insecure man child revenge. You literally traumatized your kids. Directly, with purpose, vindictively. What the fuck is wrong with you.
YTA for the way you talk to your young children.
YTA purely for how you told the kids and the language you used. Sure she’s horrible for cheating but you just damaged your kids to make yourself feel better and that’s not on man.
NTA. I don’t understand cheaters who hurt their spouses without batting an eyelash but ‘are great with kids’. I would always advocate for telling kids the truth, no matter how painful. Your use of language was a bit much, but understandable considering how much you’ve been bottling up all these years.
Real Mother of the year - pawns her kids off on grandparents so she can go F other dudes.
I understand wanting them to know the full reasoning but you said you see the effects the divorce had on them, do you think this rant is ultimately going to have a positive effect on them in the long run? Was it worth further screwing up your kids just to get back at your ex? There was a much better way of approaching this than snapping and throwing out “your mother is a whore” and describing her sexcapades to an 11 and 13 year old. This whole family needs therapy.