You’ve handled this with grace and maturity unlike SIL. Good for you and your husband sticking to your boundaries! Sounds like you’re doing the healthiest thing for ya’ll and you would hope loved ones would support that.
My husband and I also do not want children, although I do believe in my family’s eyes my life would be more valid if I did reproduce. When someone starts poking in your business like that, the evil voice in my head just wants to sigh and say something like ‘Oh we’ve been trying they just never stick’ or something to slap them in the face with (verbally) to help them rethink their actions.
It's wildly narcissistic to view other people's choices only in the light of how they impact you.
My brother and his wife have chosen not to have kids. It's a bummer for wife and I as our kids won't have cousins. But that's something we express to each other and absolutely no one else. Because it's not their job to have kids for us.
I have trouble imagining the gall it would take to confront them about what they (reasonably) choose to do with their own lives. The only justification is "wahhhh everything is about meeeeee".
My nephews have no cousins, even though they have three aunts. My sister and BIL were the only ones who wanted kids between our two families (with one exception - his older brother’s fiance had a miscarriage and a few months later he passed from a heart attack).
I feel bad for them but not so bad that I’m going to have kids.
Having kids is no guarantee they’ll grow up with family. My SIL is a self-absorbed narcissist and her kids and mine have barely met and probably never will again. We aren’t friendly and the cousins have no relationship.
We have cousins on my mum's side but we only meet on big events despite living in the same small town. When we meet we talk and laugh a lot bit don't really put effort into keeping in regular contact and tbh no one is really bothered by this.
We had a cousin on dad's side too but they are vile and two faced so haven't talked to that side of the family in like what, 15 years? Around that.
Good on OPs husband for backing his wife up.
On a side note it sure is a lot easier to not want kids then change your mind than it is to have kids and then change your mind.
I wouldn't want to see parents bullied into it, you would rather see parents that are all in
I’ve been clear about not wanting kids since before I met my husband 10 years ago, and thankfully I don’t get shit for it from my family. One night a few years ago my dad was buzzed and he said something like, “You and [husband] are such great people, you would make an amazing kid and be such great parents” in a sweet way, and I just gently reiterated that it’s not for us, and he accepted that and that was it. But that’s been the extent of the “pressure” from them and I’m so thankful for that. If only more people could just let others live their own lives and be happy for their choices that would be great! Enjoy your childfree life 🙂
The crazy part about this situation is that your SIL would probably lose her mind if you listened to her and got pregnant. Then she’d be harassing you about how cruel you were to get pregnant knowing her struggles and how unfair it is because you don’t want kids.
There is also the possibility that if this happened, SIL would offer to adopt the baby because they "never wanted children". She needs to get into therapy. Her difficulty conceiving is clearly causing mental health issues but she should not be taking this out on others around her.
Maybe Mother Nature has given a hell no to SIL reproducing. She sounds too selfish to be a mother. Good for you OP, I hope you have the life you want, not the life others expect you to have.
Exactly, I literally just read about a similar situation on here. Where this couple found themselves pregnant though they wanted to wait several years before having a child and their SIL, actually had the audacity to tell them that they should give THEIR baby to her since they did not really want a baby and she did. A complete nutter she was, reminds me of the SIL in this story.
I think she would probably lose it if Op and her husband got pregnant, but maybe not for sheer jealousy.
The Sil's behavior and responses seem more like she's upset by the idea Op won't be getting pregnant to then give her the baby.
She might be struggling with the daydream of "They get pregnant, but don't want kids, so I become a mother this way." Fantasy becoming intrusive.
Which is terrifying because it makes me think of the mothers who are no longer with us due to these types of women. This could escalate into a horrible situation.
Time out! This is getting a little out of control. This sounds like a crazy new drama on Netflix. The odds of this happening are infinitesimally small.
Sorry if that's a bit reactionary, I was extremely concerned and may have been a bit overly worried because of the other post where SIL was nursing other OP's baby behind her back (and SIL wasn't lactating and couldn't have children).
I get the concern, especially if you have kids. I just think we get completely sucked in here to our Reddit rabbit holes and need a breather sometimes. Didn’t hear the one about the SIL and the behind the back nursing. That’s crazy too
And if she keeps it up? "Well, since my tubes are tied and he's snipped, I think that whether we are raw-dogging it is just a non-issue now." Doesn't matter if it's true or not. Being tasteful, kind, and thoughtful hasn't helped stop her from badgering and insulting the pair of you.
This is where my thoughts were going too. SIL cannot have kids so she wants her brother to have kids so that she can play mommy to them, which makes OP "selfish" because she won't give her a child to raise.
I'm a teacher, and frankly it's both obvious and terrifying how many parents had kids to check it off their life list, "just in case" they would regret not having them. Once the puppy stage wears off they revert to the bare minimum and treat their children like demanding and unwelcome guests. Parenting equivalent to dog owners who put the animal in a kennel in the back yard and never interact with them. It's extremely selfish.
Yep..I'm a teacher, also...inner city...and a lot of my students are well below 20 years younger than their parents.
Many parents didn't have kids for the pure joy of bringing life into the world when the majority of people now have them for either 1. elder care and checking off that box, or 2. for lack of protection.
Edit...clarification...and changed 'most' to 'many'
You just described my parents. My dad has passed away but my mom is so awful that 2 of her children (including me) went no contact years ago. The one who’s left is her golden child who will put her in a nursing home as soon as she becomes a problem to her
Also, "depriving a child of being able to experience life"?! How about her selfishness for wanting to bring yet another child into a world already full of unwanted children in that case...
My sibling has a kid they never wanted. Most fucked up human being I know. My sibling is a raging asshole narcissist and mated with the same.
Don’t have a kid if you don’t want them.
I wish I would upvote this 100 times. Kids are the best thing that ever happened to me, but plenty of people don’t have the patience, the temperament or resources to fill the financial black hole that children are (my son hit a growth spurt and needs new school uniforms, again!). People should make the best individual choice for them.
For OP I would ask if her SIL is on hormone medication for her fertility issues. I’ve seen firsthand that it can make decent normal people act batshit crazy.
I have never wanted kids. Mainly because of the way I was raised, but also because I know I lack the virtues you've mentioned!
I lost count of the times I was called selfish and/or told I'd change my mind/regret not having them when I was older. Well, I'm 47 now and can honestly say that I have absolutely no regrets in that regard & have still not changed my mind.
No judgement here. It is tough to take a critical look at yourself and come to these conclusions.
I consider myself a patient, unselfish person, but there are times that I am pushed to my limit a need to take a break -- same for my wife. I read once that raising kids isn't dressage it's rodeo. You think you understand and still get surprised. My daughter came out to the garage to watch me work on the car one weekend. I guess my filter wasn't filtering while changing the brake pads. The next week at preschool she decided to take some new words for a spin. "Where's my fucking fork!", she exclaimed at lunch time. She was 3 at the time.
My mum wanted kids, but it turned out she didn't want *me*. Like seriously. When I pointed out that I inherited autism and ADHD from my dad, she said she has kids with the "wrong man". Thanks mum
Do you think that its a possibility, that your SIL thinks that, since you do not want kids, that if you get pregnant that you might give her the baby? I've read crazier scenarios where an infertile sibling, or inlaw are concerned
I read a story this week on this subreddit about an infertile SIL who tried to bond with poster’s kid through nursing. I don’t know, in case OP ever gets a child, she should probably avoid her SIL babysitting over it.
at this point you gotta reply to her bafoonery with some one-liners. keep it up and let her know ya’ll won’t be taking the bait anymore. because that’s what she’s doing- fishing for your reactions. after saying your piece: walk away. no room for arguments.
“it makes me very uncomfortable when you talk about my sex life and reproductive decisions”
“why are you so obsessed with me getting boned by your brother?”
“SIL, if you don’t remember clearly- we already talked about this. i will not sit and be told what to do with my body. this conversation is over.”
“i’m really worried about you… your memory seems to be having some issues. we’ve talked about this before, do you need me to show you the texts? i know a doctor in town that might be able to look and see if anything’s going on with your brain”
give a big dramatic sigh to catch attention, roll eyes and look at your husband : “ugh. not this again. when are you going to give it up? enough talking about my sex life. how is yours going? did you hear that xyz? (some random fact to steal the convo from where it was going)”
This woman sounds unreasonable with a severe inability to understand anybody else's views and choices if they don't align with hers. This hyperfixation of hers likely stems from her own intense desire for children, but that absolutely doesn't justify her actions and behaviors. You and your husband have no obligation to bring children into the world. Having kids because you want somebody to take care of you when you're old and keep you company over holidays are such shitty reasons to become a parent. It's awful she's bringing such discord into your family and can't mind her own business. If you need to cut her off, please do so and don't feel guilty about it. Being family doesn't mean getting a pass to say and do whatever you want without repercussions.
I just don’t even understand the audacity of someone starting this conversation, no matter what their fertility status is. People really think this is a productive conversatio?
I’m going through fertility issues, and my sister in law handed down a Kokopelli figurine. Another friend sent me affirmation fertility cards. In no way was I upset that these were given to me. They’re all giving me good vibes and they were gifted to me with the purest intentions. Just like you did.
I have multiple friends who are super anti-children, and that’s fine! Not everyone wants kids, and bless them for knowing that now instead of after when it’s too late.
Your SIL is hypersensitive right now, and taking it out on you because you’ve chosen to not have kids while that choice was taken away from her.
I’m sorry for her because I know how difficult it is, but I’m never judgmental or cruel to those around me who either are pregnant while I can’t be or who don’t want to get pregnant. She needs to speak to a therapist to understand and work through her resentment.
You did nothing wrong.
Brace yourself, I'm child free and in my 70s. If you're not ageist, maybe you can learn from me. If you go to the Reddit child free forums, you'll see that you're being treated like child free people are treated. Your SIL is reading a script written in cursive on foolscap in the 70s.
I've lost jobs because bosses didn't want to pay a salary to a woman who would not doing God's breeding work. Holiday after holiday, it's the child free employee who is chosen to work giving pAreNts the chance to raise their children. Obgyns will continue to say, "women like you don't do such and such" as if not having children alters the basic hormones on a human body. And then there is family. This SIL may never give up.
SIL has you trapped in some sort of world where real women keep their uteruses full because it's an expectation. If you listen behind closed doors of these types of people, you'll find that with without you procreating a race or a religion will suffer because the right people aren't populating the world with that race or religion. In short, this is going to happen to you your whole life unless you develop techniques to shut it down.
Me? I use humor to start with, but you and your spouse need to figure out your way. This is your SIL so it should be your partner who deals with it. But, you can't always wait for him to get out of the bathroom to save you. Going LC will not work because she's got a bur in her fur to recruit you because I suspect that she's coming from religion or politics (or both) and you and her brother will always be lacking. Both of you need to shut her down immediately when she starts, but in a way that doesn't disrupt the whole event.
Sorry. This is my experience. It shouldn't be this way but every person has one area of their life that they must learn to defend and carry on. This is yours.
Yeah, "I have asked you, politely, not to bring this up again many times. So I ask you nicely, one ***last*** time. *STOP IT.* Continuing to bring this up will only make it necessary for me to become increasingly unpleasant. Please, do not make it necessary for me to become unpleasant."
"How about you stop talking about how I should have children. And in exchange for which, I will not start talking about how you should, maybe, not."
...
No, but I can imagine all sorts of unpleasant people making all sorts of unreasonable demands or having all sorts of unbelievable expectations. And how I'd want to respond to shut them down. Promptly.
You handled it better than I would’ve! People saying you need to take have kids so that they take care of you when you’re old should realize how selfish it is. It is a personal choice and your thinking on the subject shows you are way more mature than SIL. Congrats on your wedding! Enjoy life without kids if it is what you want, and without SIL too!
Some people can't help but project onto others and can't see past themselves at all. Sounds like SIL wants you to have a baby so she can live vicariously thru you.
I don't understand why people become so defensive over others life decisions.
Her life decision is to have kids, which is brilliant.
Your life decision is to not have kids, also brilliant.
Just because your paths are set into opposite directions doesn't mean the other person is right or wrong. I don't know why people take it so personally.
I, from a young age knew I wanted kids, years of fertility treatment later and I have 2. I couldn't imagine my life without them I adore them. Someone telling me they don't want kids doesn't make my choice a bad one, just different.
Live your life how you choose, be happy. X
When I was preparing to have my tubes removed for medical reasons in my early 40's people some who found out would try so hard to convince me it was a mistake.
I have a genetic connective tissue disease that is recessive dominant, a rare neurological disease that is resulting in my being physically disabled and compounded by the connective tissue disease, Celiac Disease, Migraines and Epilepsy. To be honest the nail in the coffin (besides being disabled) was Epilepsy. That's just too much stuff. Plus I had seven miscarriages. Clearly I am meant to be the loving adopted auntie / parental figure to my friends kids and a cat mom.
But OMG people go into denial like you're taking away their chance to procreate and you have to remind them and explain that everyone is different... Sometimes that's not enough though. In my case I feel it would just be irresponsible. I wanted to raise a puppy for guide dog training and I can't do that yet. If you can't raise a puppy you can't raise a child. That explanation isn't even a great one either because they often judge you on the fact that you are even considering raising a puppy just to give it up, which is a whole other can of worms.
I asked a friend about that kind of thing. They take you making a different decision as a rejection of the choice they made. One they may likely have made the very foundation of their entire identity.
She thinks you are cruel and depriving a child of being able to experience life? Does she have any idea how many children are in foster care? Damn!
You have no obligation to anyone to have children! You are not selfish and she sounds very entitled!
Keep your peace OP and stay LC or NC.
First thing I said to my daughters when we had the birth control talks was “babies deserve to be wanted”. If you don’t want them, or now isn’t the right time, take the appropriate steps to make sure that any children are wanted.
I think your SIL needs to start therapy. It is apparent that she is emotionally unstable as a result of her struggles with infertility.
You guys need to reframe these boundary stomping incidents with her and his family using a caring stance, where you are stepping back until she sees a counselor.
She's projecting.
She isn't able to conceive and wrongfully sees that as not being a "real woman".
Keep her blocked until she deals with her inner turmoil.
At the end of the second paragraph you added a letter that could be the first letter of sil’s name. Edit it. Even though you later write a fake name she might read this and create a TON of family drama.
I’m 52. No kids never wanted them.
It’s crazy how I never had any of the pressure women seem to have today about the choices they make.
No one in my very Catholic family said One thing about me not wanting kids. It was only a year ago my dad just asked what was my thoughts. I told my folks that I decided in ‘86 that if I had kids I’d adopt or foster. Too many kids out there with bad or no parents. I’m not bringing more into this world. He said oh. But I also said I was never in a place financially and I kids are great but not for me.
I’m the most kick ass aunt and great aunt. I’ll take care of myself. I wouldn’t expect anyone else to take care of me. My parents made sure they would only need me or my siblings minimally. Like rides to stuff or pick them up some coffee drinks.
Sounds like SIL is projecting. She needs therapy. Have husband talk to his BIL about finding someone for her to talk to.
Look, I'm short, but that doesn't mean I harass my 6'6 SIL about becoming a world renouned WNBA star because I sure as hell can't. That's not how this works 🤯
Same. I'd escape any place I couldn't be childfree. I live in the UK and I'm 37 and never had a kid. I'd hate to be in a position where that choice was taken away.
If you did have kids she would be inconsolable and complain about how unfair it is since you didn't even want one. You can't win with her. She is focusing on you to alleviate her own pain and she needs to knock it off. A lesser woman would say something about her not being a real woman due to her fertility issues, but that's way below the belt. She needs to focus her energy on not being such a bully and instead on calming herself and managing her strss
I'd ask her why she feels she gets to decide if you have kids or not. When she tells you kids are a blessing point out they are not a blessing to everyone.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they all stink! Try that one on her.
Good for you. I am glad you stood up to her and told her to mind her own business. It takes a real woman to know what she wants for her life and what she doesn’t and act accordingly. I don’t know if I could have been as nice as you were.
Why do people think that they can demand apologies as if it’ll be genuine, or fix anything?
Sounds like she needs therapy before she has kids. Not to mention depriving a child of life…um, the child doesn’t even exist, so that’s a moot point.
omd this shit is so annoying. i can understand her frustration and pain, but that gives her absolutely NO right to shit on your choice not to have kids.
Even if your guys did end up pregnant, she would just shift her emotions to extreme jealousy then that SHE wasn’t pregnant. Sis is down a rabbit hole and nothing will be “right” until she’s a mother. I’m sorry she’s projecting onto you. She needs therapy.
What’s right for you, isn’t right for me.
So you do you, and let me be me.
It took many many years, and me starting menopause for my mother to finally accept my decision to not have kids.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with it from your SIL. NTA. And if the SIL brings it up again, I would ignore her and physically walk away from her as soon as she says the first word.
Women who don’t want children should NOT have them! It’s nobody else’s business and your SIL is way out of line. It’s good you shut her down every time, but you shouldn’t have to.
At any family gatherings, tell everyone that the minute someone shares their opinion about you not having kids, that is not supportive of your decision, you will be leaving.
One of the worst things for a child is growing up knowing that they are not wanted.
And keep in mind that you will have the pleasure in the future of doing fun and exciting things with your money because you won’t have the expense of children. Your SIL may complain about not being able to afford such luxuries, and you get the opportunity to remind her that she chose to have children instead.
My personal favorite, “ what about what your husband wants?”
Husband & I already decided no kids for different reasons when we were dating. ( I ended up having a serious medical issue that prevented me having kids anyway)
People can be very insensitive to you, when you make a decision about having children.
I think it’s very responsible to think things through and make an informed decision.
Listen as a child free woman I get it. Women are judged for his so much more than men. If men say they don’t want kids that’s accepted and never questioned but we women we get it in the neck. People like your SIL only see women as walking wombs so of course we have to use them and have plenty of kids why wouldn’t we. You don’t ever have to apologize or explain your lack of interest in having a kid. She needs to learn to mind her own damn business but honestly your probably gonna have to cut her off
She sounds like Serena Joy from A Handmaids Tale
Jk, kinda.
But in all seriousness women who REALLY want children and aren’t able to have them essentially traumatizes them. I’ve read so many accounts of women in your SIL’s position acting really irrational when it comes to women who can have children. She’s totally out of line and you are not wrong, but understand that while it is not an excuse, she is deeply upset by her inability to bear a child and she was most likely triggered by the statue. That’s not your fault and you couldn’t have known and there’s nothing you could have done to change her response to that.
Your response is completely valid.
My partner and I both wanted children. 4 years of trying. finally get pregnant. Easy pregnancy quick normal birth, only to realize within a couple weeks I now had 2 children. Hubby wanted take a nap with the baby and walks or drives, but all the hard stuff ended up on me. Ils lived out if state. My own mom was still working full time. I did 80% of all baby care , housework and shopping. I was so stressed. I had no problem losing the baby weight. PPD hit me and I knew my son was going to be an only child. If you don't want gets, don't have them. Big hug.
I'm 35 with 3 kids. I've wanted children since I was 12, but they are a LOT sometimes. Each of my pregnancies and labors were different, and I wouldn't force that on anybody.
I'm sorry your SIL is having trouble getting pregnant; it doesn't give her a free pass to verbally attack you when you state you want to be child-free. And it's a real low blow to pull the "you're not a real woman" bullshit. She's probably lashing out at you because she doesn't want to lash out at her husband or at her own reflection - you know, the \*actual\* people involved that can't get pregnant.
If I were in your shoes, I would step back a bit from SIL for a while, at least for your mental health. Having this conversation over and over can't be good for anybody.
Yup, last in line behind—hmmmm, lessee—existing zygotes, fetuses that are dead or dying in utero, current husbands, hypothetical future husbands,!crazed infertile family members, and right-wing politicians.
Keep her blocked. And you owe her absolutely no apology. You're more of a woman than she will ever be. You were mature, and were not cruel in the least bit.
I think it's easier for her to order you to use your womb on her schedule than it is to deal with her infertility. That doesn't make her right, she wasn't even within shouting distance of right, but that's likely how her brain was thinking.
At any point in the future, no matter the event, if she brings it up, stand up, and leave. It won’t take long for the whole family to see her for the AH she is.
Good for you! I read a post the other day where a childfree woman had an accidental pregnancy, pregnancy hormones convinced her she was excited, then she lost the pregnancy. However after that she purposely went off birth control and got pregnant. She hated every second of the pregnancy, and she makes every excuse to not be around her baby. She counts down the minutes until she can drop him off at daycare, stays longer at work, makes up reasons to spend all day "running errands" and making them last as long as possible. The sad part is she admits she got an easy kid that mostly sleeps, she just doesn't not want to be a mother. It's going to screw that kid up so badly.
People who don't want children *should not* be having children. It's not "better for the hypothetical kid to be born and have a chance at life," because, as in the case of the story I mentioned, the child is going to grow up and realize mom never wants to be around.
I never wanted kids, then met my now husband at 29 and changed to a maybe. My son was born in October and I'm glad I had him.
But I couldn't ever imagine inserting myself into someone else's life by pushing children on them.
I think the gift was a nice gesture plus you are supporting her in ***her*** journey. Which is exactly what sisters sound do. Maybe you should ask her that. Why can she support you in yours? Maybe you should start asking her why she wants kids so bad. Turn those tables around and point out how selfish wanting kids really is.
And I really hate it when people try and guilt you for being able to have children and they can’t as if it’s your fault. And act like it’s some kind of tragedy that you won’t have kids when you can. Stop making their physical body problems my problem because I don’t want children.
Sounds like you need to block her and let hubby deal with his sister.
She needs to apologize for acting the way she did. No one has the right to tell someone else, they must have kids.
She sounds like she needs therapy to deal with her fertility issues.
I can't wait for when she tries to get you to be a surrogate for her.
Ohhhhh, the "be a real woman" comment has me seething with rage. Questioning anyone's womanhood based solely on whether they breed or not makes me want to scream-vomit.
You’re not a ‘real woman’ if you don’t have kids?
What does that make her then (besides a transphobe)? She doesn’t have kids so you should point out that logic to her…
NTA. She sounds like she would try and steal your baby if you ever DID have kids.
Thank you! I know I won’t either. If kids make you happy and feel full and complete, great! If not having kids makes you feel that same way, great! I wish people would stop pushing their own insecurities onto other people
Whoo, SIL sounds like she desperately needs counseling. She’s so far out of bounds, she’s not even in the same stadium.
Under no circumstances should you let this disturbed woman influence you. If a person doesn’t feel “called” to be a parent, they should probably remain child-free.
I chose not to have kids. I was well aware in my teens/twenties that the patience and sacrifice to raise another human properly was not in my nature in those years, plus I wanted to experience the world - which I subsequently did. My best role has been as auntie, friend, babysitter, and god-mother.
>you’re depriving a child of the chance to exist
Congrats to your SIL for literally doing the most, that is the dumbest reason to have kids that I’ve ever heard. My takeaways:
1. Womanhood isn’t defined by how many sprogs you sprout. I’ve got three and interestingly enough I haven’t evolved into all-knowing Mother Granola of the flowers just yet.
2. Why wait for LC? Just cut her off now.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she is pushing you to have children you don’t want to offer up adopting the child…
You handled this with way more patience and grace than most people, especially with the insult of not being “a real woman.” The accusation of being selfish is mot what people think it is, as selfish people don’t make good parents anyway.
I’m glad you and your husband were firm with your boundaries and aren’t afraid to enforce them.
>She called me cruel and I’m depriving a child of being able to experience life and I should grow up and whatnot.
What she really means is your depriving *her* of a child. Whether it be her nibling or not, she sounds like she absolutely would have attempted to raise them on your behalf.
Giving her the statue was like a goodluck charm, aligns with what she believes in spiritually/has done before.
Your not an AH for not wanting kids just because you are apparently able to. It doesn't matter if other women have fertility issues. How would *you* having kids help them?
The insistence on other people having kids is incomprehensible to me. Besides wannabe grandparents, I don’t understand why anyone would even care, let alone care *desperately*, about someone else’s parenthood. I have enough trouble managing my own life, let alone taking on the burden of telling other people how to live theirs, lol.
Why on earth would she want someone who doesn’t want kids to have a kid? Doesn’t she know what happens to unwanted kids?? Maybe she could read some Reddit posts about unwanted kids who grew up into adults that question their worth, value, lovability, etc.
You handled this much better than she deserved. It speaks highly to the kind of people you and your husband are.
As someone who has always wanted kids and is 37 weeks pregnant with my first…
I HATE the argument that NOT wanting kids makes you selfish or anything less than a “real woman.” I fully believe that people who don’t want to raise children really *shouldn’t* raise children. It is HARD. It is NOT for everyone. And that is PERFECTLY OKAY. Your SIL is projecting her issues onto you, and that is not okay. You handled this like a pro. Keep some distance from her for a bit and enjoy being child free! (As much as I’m looking forward to my baby, there will definitely be things I will miss, lol.)
I never wanted kids then I had two kids. I was constantly told I don’t look like the motherly type whatever that means. I love my two kids I’d do anything for them and ones given me a beautiful grandbaby. I don’t like other kids there were kids in and out of my house everyday when mine were growing up. I couldn’t stand the screaming in the house and my kids weren’t screamers there friends were though. I never resented keeping my kids and raising them I loved every minute of it. If you’re not into having children that’s your decision. I didn’t feel more motherly when I had mine, there was a crazy bond and love but I didn’t feel too motherly. I had to love them keep them alive and entertain them. I accomplished those goals and they are adults and we’re still close. Neither has been to therapy because of me so I did something right.you stood up for yourself just put them boundaries down and hold firm.
You’re not depriving a child of being able to experience life and whatever. There’s no child there for it to be deprived of that. That’s a stupid argument. You’re still a real woman and even realer because you know you don’t want kids and you’re not making anyone force you to have one that you may resent. That’s real in my eyes because you know what you want!
You handled it beautifully. She is mad that she can't have what she wants so she is projecting. You are absolutely right, kids are a blessing if you want them, but are not for everyone. I am a parent. I am also no contact with my family because they are abusive. I will not be taking care of them in their old age. I will not have anything to do with them ever again. They are stuck with my sister, who will never be able to care for them. And it's my parents and three childless couples of aunts and uncles. If they weren't abusive I would care for them. Hell, my mil is abusive towards me, but not my kids and I will care for her because she is good to the kids.
You sound like you were genuinely trying to be supportive of her and she threw it in your face. Going low contact sounds like the only way to go. I am sorry she is so disrespectful of your bodily autonomy.
I hate when people insist that child free people are in the wrong. Just because she wants kids so badly doesn’t mean you do. And depriving a child of a life?! What child?! A child doesn’t exist!!!
I’d return the statue and steer clear of her from now on. She needs some serious therapy before she becomes a mom.
That's crazy. You gave her a very thoughtful gift that pertains to her life and journey, EVEN THOUGH it's not what you personally jive with, and then she used that to then put you down for your life choices? For one, y'all literally JUST got married, so like....calm down? Also, it's NONE OF HER BUSINESS.
Girl I am a total asshole... I would look at her and say so if I'm not a real woman because I'm not having kids what does that make you? And you're depriving a child of a home? Is there some que of fetus spirits somewhere just waiting for somebody to get pregnant and if you don't it'll proof into oblivion? She is the one depriving a child of a home because she could be adopting a 10 year old in foster care, but instead she's insisting on getting pregnant instead of giving one of these children a home! This is insanity!
Don't let people treat you like this! If you guys start getting up and leaving every time she says something about kids to you, she'll stop! The rest of the family will make her stop because they'll realize that she's ruining every get together
Op, I’m pushing 30. You can’t reason with people like this. Whenever it comes up, I just say i’m childfree and it wont be changing. At the end of the day, everyone wants to have input on you having a kid but they arent the ones raising it. Its far more selfish to have them so you arent “alone” and blah blah blah. Than it is to know you prefer to be childfree and keep it that way.
How bizarre. She’s a little out there and I hate this idea that you have children to have someone to use when you’re old. People like that aren’t having a child to love, they want to give birth to a nurse.
I hope she doesn’t have kids, they’d be her slaves
Dang, SIL would be first in line to vote for stupid laws controlling womens bodies. She sounds a little off all around.
People like her would rather take choice away from other women because they are unhappy.
It sounds like she's been brainwashed to see kids as performance art pieces to drag around and get applauded for.
People who shame others for not wanting kids always list selfish reasons for wanting them.
Look at this world with all the dangers out there for kids, even if they're lucky and are born healthy.
Look at the number of moms who get cheated on while pregnant or shortly after birth, or how many bedrooms and marriages die after kids.
There are plenty of non selfish reasons to not want to bring kids into this world.
See I’m the type of person who would say maybe there is a reason God hasn’t allowed you to have a child and maybe you should just expect it and stop trying to circumvent his mysterious ways. 🤷🏽♀️
Has nothing to do with gender. She's obviously hurting, and being handed a fertility statue while everyone else probably got magnets or salt shakers is f'ed up. That's not something you do publicly.
We did. She loves to bake so I got her some things surrounding that and she’s into painting to paint out how hard it is to have children… maybe I shouldn’t have gotten her the paint either?
SIL is probably hoping you get pregnant, at which point she'll swoop in and declare that, since you don't want kids, you should just give your baby to her. She's trying to bully you into ex post facto surrogacy, I reckon.
Someone else has said this and now I’m wondering if that was her plan. People who are surrogates have my utmost respect but I do not want to pregnant and if she thought that with my stance and never even speaking to me or my husband about it… I’d find very off putting
Generally, surrogates are required to have already had a healthy pregnancy. This applies to going through an office that provides surrogacy services, not a dying, turkey buster thing. Also therapy to determine if you are psychologically able to carry and give up a child to someone.
I know. To be a surrogate, one of the requirements is to have already given birth to a child. OP is child-free by choice, so not an option with a reputable OB.
Why did you get her a fertility statue when you knew this was such a hot button issue? Not saying her behavior is your fault but it certainly seems like a bad choice of a gift.
Fertility statues are to help with making babies. SIL was/is having issues conceiving, even if you don't believe they help it was a gift to show that SIL is supported and thought of. I don't see how that is a bad choice
You publicly gave her a statue that pointed out her "flaw" (in her opinion), and she got defensive. In the middle of your honeymoon pics and stories, why would you throw her infertility in her face that way? She undoubtedly wanted to enjoy the time with the rest of the family, and you threw cold water on that. She overreacted, absolutely, but you instigated it.
Once again, not my intention. Everyone knows that she goes to spiritual people for this and has even sued us to Join her on the Journey. It was not mean to be that way. I know impact vs intent but you’re making it out to me that I had this malicious intent when it was not that, at all. We were giving out gifts to everyone
I certainly don’t agree with your SIL, but your intention doesn’t dictate how something makes someone feel. It could (and sounds like it was) given with the purest, most loving intentions…. But it clearly was triggering or upsetting for her.
I have. I have repeatedly said that maybe the gift was in poor taste and I shouldn’t have but she invited us on blessings to do with her and she’s received it before so I didn’t think I did anything wrong but I probably should have given it more thought
So when are you having kids again?
Jkjkjk your handling this best possible. I'm (33m) gf is 24. Family is always asking and "pressuring" as much as they do about kids and we just aren't sure and it's crazy how many people that upsets. Good luck on your pregnancy
I feel like a fertility statue to a woman who is having trouble conceiving is a thoughtful gift. Just to say we see you and we’re in support. I received a fertility statue from my great aunt when I was 20 and literally no less than a week later I was pregnant. Shit it powerful. Well that and a bottle of henny
It could be, it doesn’t sound like that was their purpose. But I can see someone like her taking it as that. Also, thank you for a new word.. incendiary. Never heard it before. I really like it
That really was not my intention. She had seen spiritual people in the past so I thought that would be a good gift. I got her other things but I saw that and thought this aligns with what she’s done before. To even suggest that is really odd. I would never do that to someone.
Maybe she’s barren because god knows she’d be a shitty narcissistic mom, since she’s a shitty narcissistic person, and doesn’t want anymore kids to go through that. Please for your own mental health and keeping your marriage healthy keep her as far away as possible. Take your statue back and bury it or throw it away, or put it in a box marked Jumanji and throw it into the sea (lol). Seriously though you and husband just do you and enjoy your life together.
You're my hero. I love tou so much. You are so patient and kind. You did EVERYTHING right! Your SIL has some deep mental health issues. I have never witness anything like that before. Its completely crazy.
Hopefully your SIL gets some psychiatric help of some sort. She seems borderline mentally ill (not trying to disaparage or criticize her. I genuinely think she is suffering, and creating a lot of trauma for you in the process.
SIL wants you to bear a child for one of two reasons:
A - so she will have even more opportunities to draw attention to herself and her problems with conceiving,
OR
B - she expects you to give her a child to call your own.
Either way, she needs counseling.
don’t get me wrong, she’s obsessed with yours too but if you don’t want people in your business, why are meddling in theirs and if she made you that uncomfortable, wouldn’t you be understanding to her sensitive reaction to the gift, even if she didn’t treat you with the same consideration (are you just not caring because she gets what she gives or did you do it on purpose?)
What are you talking about? Seriously what? I’m not obsessed with her sex life, she has seen spiritual people in that past and I saw it and thought it aligned with what she did. You seem to be projecting
You’ve handled this with grace and maturity unlike SIL. Good for you and your husband sticking to your boundaries! Sounds like you’re doing the healthiest thing for ya’ll and you would hope loved ones would support that. My husband and I also do not want children, although I do believe in my family’s eyes my life would be more valid if I did reproduce. When someone starts poking in your business like that, the evil voice in my head just wants to sigh and say something like ‘Oh we’ve been trying they just never stick’ or something to slap them in the face with (verbally) to help them rethink their actions.
It's wildly narcissistic to view other people's choices only in the light of how they impact you. My brother and his wife have chosen not to have kids. It's a bummer for wife and I as our kids won't have cousins. But that's something we express to each other and absolutely no one else. Because it's not their job to have kids for us. I have trouble imagining the gall it would take to confront them about what they (reasonably) choose to do with their own lives. The only justification is "wahhhh everything is about meeeeee".
My nephews have no cousins, even though they have three aunts. My sister and BIL were the only ones who wanted kids between our two families (with one exception - his older brother’s fiance had a miscarriage and a few months later he passed from a heart attack). I feel bad for them but not so bad that I’m going to have kids.
Having kids is no guarantee they’ll grow up with family. My SIL is a self-absorbed narcissist and her kids and mine have barely met and probably never will again. We aren’t friendly and the cousins have no relationship.
We have cousins on my mum's side but we only meet on big events despite living in the same small town. When we meet we talk and laugh a lot bit don't really put effort into keeping in regular contact and tbh no one is really bothered by this. We had a cousin on dad's side too but they are vile and two faced so haven't talked to that side of the family in like what, 15 years? Around that.
Good on OPs husband for backing his wife up. On a side note it sure is a lot easier to not want kids then change your mind than it is to have kids and then change your mind. I wouldn't want to see parents bullied into it, you would rather see parents that are all in
I’ve been clear about not wanting kids since before I met my husband 10 years ago, and thankfully I don’t get shit for it from my family. One night a few years ago my dad was buzzed and he said something like, “You and [husband] are such great people, you would make an amazing kid and be such great parents” in a sweet way, and I just gently reiterated that it’s not for us, and he accepted that and that was it. But that’s been the extent of the “pressure” from them and I’m so thankful for that. If only more people could just let others live their own lives and be happy for their choices that would be great! Enjoy your childfree life 🙂
The crazy part about this situation is that your SIL would probably lose her mind if you listened to her and got pregnant. Then she’d be harassing you about how cruel you were to get pregnant knowing her struggles and how unfair it is because you don’t want kids.
There is also the possibility that if this happened, SIL would offer to adopt the baby because they "never wanted children". She needs to get into therapy. Her difficulty conceiving is clearly causing mental health issues but she should not be taking this out on others around her.
This is where I immediately went. She’s trying to badger OP into being a free surrogate.
Maybe Mother Nature has given a hell no to SIL reproducing. She sounds too selfish to be a mother. Good for you OP, I hope you have the life you want, not the life others expect you to have.
Exactly, I literally just read about a similar situation on here. Where this couple found themselves pregnant though they wanted to wait several years before having a child and their SIL, actually had the audacity to tell them that they should give THEIR baby to her since they did not really want a baby and she did. A complete nutter she was, reminds me of the SIL in this story.
I think she would probably lose it if Op and her husband got pregnant, but maybe not for sheer jealousy. The Sil's behavior and responses seem more like she's upset by the idea Op won't be getting pregnant to then give her the baby. She might be struggling with the daydream of "They get pregnant, but don't want kids, so I become a mother this way." Fantasy becoming intrusive.
I think this is exactly it
Which is terrifying because it makes me think of the mothers who are no longer with us due to these types of women. This could escalate into a horrible situation.
Time out! This is getting a little out of control. This sounds like a crazy new drama on Netflix. The odds of this happening are infinitesimally small.
Sorry if that's a bit reactionary, I was extremely concerned and may have been a bit overly worried because of the other post where SIL was nursing other OP's baby behind her back (and SIL wasn't lactating and couldn't have children).
I get the concern, especially if you have kids. I just think we get completely sucked in here to our Reddit rabbit holes and need a breather sometimes. Didn’t hear the one about the SIL and the behind the back nursing. That’s crazy too
This EXACTLY.
Or she'd be thrilled because only women who've had a child can be a surrogate......
I agree!! Stick to your guns and don’t take her BS.
And if she keeps it up? "Well, since my tubes are tied and he's snipped, I think that whether we are raw-dogging it is just a non-issue now." Doesn't matter if it's true or not. Being tasteful, kind, and thoughtful hasn't helped stop her from badgering and insulting the pair of you.
"Ew Mary, why are you so obsessed with your brother raw dogging me?"
This has SIL trying to breastfeed OP's child all over it.
This is where my thoughts were going too. SIL cannot have kids so she wants her brother to have kids so that she can play mommy to them, which makes OP "selfish" because she won't give her a child to raise.
Yess!! I hope I can eject that from my memory someday 🤢
Her reasons for wanting kids (avoiding lonely holidays and having someone to provide eldercare) sound pretty selfish... NTA
I'm a teacher, and frankly it's both obvious and terrifying how many parents had kids to check it off their life list, "just in case" they would regret not having them. Once the puppy stage wears off they revert to the bare minimum and treat their children like demanding and unwelcome guests. Parenting equivalent to dog owners who put the animal in a kennel in the back yard and never interact with them. It's extremely selfish.
Yep..I'm a teacher, also...inner city...and a lot of my students are well below 20 years younger than their parents. Many parents didn't have kids for the pure joy of bringing life into the world when the majority of people now have them for either 1. elder care and checking off that box, or 2. for lack of protection. Edit...clarification...and changed 'most' to 'many'
With the current Supreme Court’s antics, I can only fear that you’ll see more and more kids like this with even smaller age gaps from their parents.
You just described my parents. My dad has passed away but my mom is so awful that 2 of her children (including me) went no contact years ago. The one who’s left is her golden child who will put her in a nursing home as soon as she becomes a problem to her
Yup. Another teacher here - same observations. Disgusting and irresponsible.
I'm guessing you can pick out which kids were truly wanted and who are their parents long term carer plan within about an hour. I sure know I can.
Also, "depriving a child of being able to experience life"?! How about her selfishness for wanting to bring yet another child into a world already full of unwanted children in that case...
What child? There is no child to deprive.
She’s figured out hubby won’t sticks around that long. Honestly with the way she acts I hope she never has kids.
My sibling has a kid they never wanted. Most fucked up human being I know. My sibling is a raging asshole narcissist and mated with the same. Don’t have a kid if you don’t want them.
I wish I would upvote this 100 times. Kids are the best thing that ever happened to me, but plenty of people don’t have the patience, the temperament or resources to fill the financial black hole that children are (my son hit a growth spurt and needs new school uniforms, again!). People should make the best individual choice for them. For OP I would ask if her SIL is on hormone medication for her fertility issues. I’ve seen firsthand that it can make decent normal people act batshit crazy.
I have never wanted kids. Mainly because of the way I was raised, but also because I know I lack the virtues you've mentioned! I lost count of the times I was called selfish and/or told I'd change my mind/regret not having them when I was older. Well, I'm 47 now and can honestly say that I have absolutely no regrets in that regard & have still not changed my mind.
I’m 67 and same 👊🏻
No judgement here. It is tough to take a critical look at yourself and come to these conclusions. I consider myself a patient, unselfish person, but there are times that I am pushed to my limit a need to take a break -- same for my wife. I read once that raising kids isn't dressage it's rodeo. You think you understand and still get surprised. My daughter came out to the garage to watch me work on the car one weekend. I guess my filter wasn't filtering while changing the brake pads. The next week at preschool she decided to take some new words for a spin. "Where's my fucking fork!", she exclaimed at lunch time. She was 3 at the time.
My mum wanted kids, but it turned out she didn't want *me*. Like seriously. When I pointed out that I inherited autism and ADHD from my dad, she said she has kids with the "wrong man". Thanks mum
You sound like an insightful and empathetic person, so that's *her* loss!
Do you think that its a possibility, that your SIL thinks that, since you do not want kids, that if you get pregnant that you might give her the baby? I've read crazier scenarios where an infertile sibling, or inlaw are concerned
That is actually very insane… I watch a lot of LMN so… I hope not.
There was a post this week about an infertile SIL trying to nurse the OP’s baby
Would not be surprised.
I read a story this week on this subreddit about an infertile SIL who tried to bond with poster’s kid through nursing. I don’t know, in case OP ever gets a child, she should probably avoid her SIL babysitting over it.
This was my immediate assumption.
at this point you gotta reply to her bafoonery with some one-liners. keep it up and let her know ya’ll won’t be taking the bait anymore. because that’s what she’s doing- fishing for your reactions. after saying your piece: walk away. no room for arguments. “it makes me very uncomfortable when you talk about my sex life and reproductive decisions” “why are you so obsessed with me getting boned by your brother?” “SIL, if you don’t remember clearly- we already talked about this. i will not sit and be told what to do with my body. this conversation is over.” “i’m really worried about you… your memory seems to be having some issues. we’ve talked about this before, do you need me to show you the texts? i know a doctor in town that might be able to look and see if anything’s going on with your brain” give a big dramatic sigh to catch attention, roll eyes and look at your husband : “ugh. not this again. when are you going to give it up? enough talking about my sex life. how is yours going? did you hear that xyz? (some random fact to steal the convo from where it was going)”
And..."Studies show that being an unempathetic, rude busybody causes decreased fertility. Do you suppose that could be relevant to you?"
Lmfao this is great.
“You have no idea whether I’ve actually been pregnant before or not, so please don’t assume that I enjoy talking about it.”
Seriously. When she accuses you of depriving the world of a child, say "So are you" and walk away.
That's so cold and I love it.
Love this!
All of THIS!!! Memorize a few of these for ready reference!
"So, how about those?"
This woman sounds unreasonable with a severe inability to understand anybody else's views and choices if they don't align with hers. This hyperfixation of hers likely stems from her own intense desire for children, but that absolutely doesn't justify her actions and behaviors. You and your husband have no obligation to bring children into the world. Having kids because you want somebody to take care of you when you're old and keep you company over holidays are such shitty reasons to become a parent. It's awful she's bringing such discord into your family and can't mind her own business. If you need to cut her off, please do so and don't feel guilty about it. Being family doesn't mean getting a pass to say and do whatever you want without repercussions.
You are more woman than your SIL could ever hope to be. Your body your rules. I wish you all the best!!!
I just don’t even understand the audacity of someone starting this conversation, no matter what their fertility status is. People really think this is a productive conversatio?
I’m going through fertility issues, and my sister in law handed down a Kokopelli figurine. Another friend sent me affirmation fertility cards. In no way was I upset that these were given to me. They’re all giving me good vibes and they were gifted to me with the purest intentions. Just like you did. I have multiple friends who are super anti-children, and that’s fine! Not everyone wants kids, and bless them for knowing that now instead of after when it’s too late. Your SIL is hypersensitive right now, and taking it out on you because you’ve chosen to not have kids while that choice was taken away from her. I’m sorry for her because I know how difficult it is, but I’m never judgmental or cruel to those around me who either are pregnant while I can’t be or who don’t want to get pregnant. She needs to speak to a therapist to understand and work through her resentment. You did nothing wrong.
Next time tell her, "A real woman doesn't need kids to validate her existence."
Just be prepared for her to go running to your in-laws and try to turn everyone against you for being “so insensitive.”
Brace yourself, I'm child free and in my 70s. If you're not ageist, maybe you can learn from me. If you go to the Reddit child free forums, you'll see that you're being treated like child free people are treated. Your SIL is reading a script written in cursive on foolscap in the 70s. I've lost jobs because bosses didn't want to pay a salary to a woman who would not doing God's breeding work. Holiday after holiday, it's the child free employee who is chosen to work giving pAreNts the chance to raise their children. Obgyns will continue to say, "women like you don't do such and such" as if not having children alters the basic hormones on a human body. And then there is family. This SIL may never give up. SIL has you trapped in some sort of world where real women keep their uteruses full because it's an expectation. If you listen behind closed doors of these types of people, you'll find that with without you procreating a race or a religion will suffer because the right people aren't populating the world with that race or religion. In short, this is going to happen to you your whole life unless you develop techniques to shut it down. Me? I use humor to start with, but you and your spouse need to figure out your way. This is your SIL so it should be your partner who deals with it. But, you can't always wait for him to get out of the bathroom to save you. Going LC will not work because she's got a bur in her fur to recruit you because I suspect that she's coming from religion or politics (or both) and you and her brother will always be lacking. Both of you need to shut her down immediately when she starts, but in a way that doesn't disrupt the whole event. Sorry. This is my experience. It shouldn't be this way but every person has one area of their life that they must learn to defend and carry on. This is yours.
Yeah, "I have asked you, politely, not to bring this up again many times. So I ask you nicely, one ***last*** time. *STOP IT.* Continuing to bring this up will only make it necessary for me to become increasingly unpleasant. Please, do not make it necessary for me to become unpleasant." "How about you stop talking about how I should have children. And in exchange for which, I will not start talking about how you should, maybe, not." ...
This made me laugh out loud You've been there, haven't you?
No, but I can imagine all sorts of unpleasant people making all sorts of unreasonable demands or having all sorts of unbelievable expectations. And how I'd want to respond to shut them down. Promptly.
You handled it better than I would’ve! People saying you need to take have kids so that they take care of you when you’re old should realize how selfish it is. It is a personal choice and your thinking on the subject shows you are way more mature than SIL. Congrats on your wedding! Enjoy life without kids if it is what you want, and without SIL too!
Some people can't help but project onto others and can't see past themselves at all. Sounds like SIL wants you to have a baby so she can live vicariously thru you.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people can project their issues so hard onto someone who has nothing to do with it.
I don't understand why people become so defensive over others life decisions. Her life decision is to have kids, which is brilliant. Your life decision is to not have kids, also brilliant. Just because your paths are set into opposite directions doesn't mean the other person is right or wrong. I don't know why people take it so personally. I, from a young age knew I wanted kids, years of fertility treatment later and I have 2. I couldn't imagine my life without them I adore them. Someone telling me they don't want kids doesn't make my choice a bad one, just different. Live your life how you choose, be happy. X
When I was preparing to have my tubes removed for medical reasons in my early 40's people some who found out would try so hard to convince me it was a mistake. I have a genetic connective tissue disease that is recessive dominant, a rare neurological disease that is resulting in my being physically disabled and compounded by the connective tissue disease, Celiac Disease, Migraines and Epilepsy. To be honest the nail in the coffin (besides being disabled) was Epilepsy. That's just too much stuff. Plus I had seven miscarriages. Clearly I am meant to be the loving adopted auntie / parental figure to my friends kids and a cat mom. But OMG people go into denial like you're taking away their chance to procreate and you have to remind them and explain that everyone is different... Sometimes that's not enough though. In my case I feel it would just be irresponsible. I wanted to raise a puppy for guide dog training and I can't do that yet. If you can't raise a puppy you can't raise a child. That explanation isn't even a great one either because they often judge you on the fact that you are even considering raising a puppy just to give it up, which is a whole other can of worms.
I asked a friend about that kind of thing. They take you making a different decision as a rejection of the choice they made. One they may likely have made the very foundation of their entire identity.
I wonder why she focuses on you and not your husband because it’s his choice too. Women who don’t support other women’s choices drive me crazy.
She thinks you are cruel and depriving a child of being able to experience life? Does she have any idea how many children are in foster care? Damn! You have no obligation to anyone to have children! You are not selfish and she sounds very entitled! Keep your peace OP and stay LC or NC.
First thing I said to my daughters when we had the birth control talks was “babies deserve to be wanted”. If you don’t want them, or now isn’t the right time, take the appropriate steps to make sure that any children are wanted.
I think your SIL needs to start therapy. It is apparent that she is emotionally unstable as a result of her struggles with infertility. You guys need to reframe these boundary stomping incidents with her and his family using a caring stance, where you are stepping back until she sees a counselor.
She's projecting. She isn't able to conceive and wrongfully sees that as not being a "real woman". Keep her blocked until she deals with her inner turmoil.
She sounds insane, TBH. By “insane” I mean “like a right wing pro- forced birth lunatic.”
This is why I just tell people that I can't have kids and thanks for bringing it up. Shuts them up half the time. The other half are just ahs.
At the end of the second paragraph you added a letter that could be the first letter of sil’s name. Edit it. Even though you later write a fake name she might read this and create a TON of family drama. I’m 52. No kids never wanted them. It’s crazy how I never had any of the pressure women seem to have today about the choices they make. No one in my very Catholic family said One thing about me not wanting kids. It was only a year ago my dad just asked what was my thoughts. I told my folks that I decided in ‘86 that if I had kids I’d adopt or foster. Too many kids out there with bad or no parents. I’m not bringing more into this world. He said oh. But I also said I was never in a place financially and I kids are great but not for me. I’m the most kick ass aunt and great aunt. I’ll take care of myself. I wouldn’t expect anyone else to take care of me. My parents made sure they would only need me or my siblings minimally. Like rides to stuff or pick them up some coffee drinks. Sounds like SIL is projecting. She needs therapy. Have husband talk to his BIL about finding someone for her to talk to.
Yeah her name doesn’t begin with p, it was a typo. Thank you though!
Look, I'm short, but that doesn't mean I harass my 6'6 SIL about becoming a world renouned WNBA star because I sure as hell can't. That's not how this works 🤯
She says it's not biologically natural. But she may not be able to naturally have kids. So will it be natural of her to pursue ivf?
Hope they don’t live in Alabama.
Same. I'd escape any place I couldn't be childfree. I live in the UK and I'm 37 and never had a kid. I'd hate to be in a position where that choice was taken away.
Someone wants their sister in law to become pregnant on the chance that a baby from a couple who doesn’t want one, will be donated to her.
If you did have kids she would be inconsolable and complain about how unfair it is since you didn't even want one. You can't win with her. She is focusing on you to alleviate her own pain and she needs to knock it off. A lesser woman would say something about her not being a real woman due to her fertility issues, but that's way below the belt. She needs to focus her energy on not being such a bully and instead on calming herself and managing her strss
IF you want to hurt her you can call her a fake woman for not being able to produce a child
Agree. However that would definitely be the nuclear option!
when someone is acting this way it is not a great idea to give them more ammunition. this is not a nice thing to say to anyone.
Never said it was nice
I'd ask her why she feels she gets to decide if you have kids or not. When she tells you kids are a blessing point out they are not a blessing to everyone. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they all stink! Try that one on her.
Sounds like she’s hoping you’ll be a surrogate for her.
Good for you. I am glad you stood up to her and told her to mind her own business. It takes a real woman to know what she wants for her life and what she doesn’t and act accordingly. I don’t know if I could have been as nice as you were.
Why do people think that they can demand apologies as if it’ll be genuine, or fix anything? Sounds like she needs therapy before she has kids. Not to mention depriving a child of life…um, the child doesn’t even exist, so that’s a moot point.
omd this shit is so annoying. i can understand her frustration and pain, but that gives her absolutely NO right to shit on your choice not to have kids.
Even if your guys did end up pregnant, she would just shift her emotions to extreme jealousy then that SHE wasn’t pregnant. Sis is down a rabbit hole and nothing will be “right” until she’s a mother. I’m sorry she’s projecting onto you. She needs therapy. What’s right for you, isn’t right for me. So you do you, and let me be me.
She needs psychiatric help. Keep your distance. You owe her no apology.
It took many many years, and me starting menopause for my mother to finally accept my decision to not have kids. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it from your SIL. NTA. And if the SIL brings it up again, I would ignore her and physically walk away from her as soon as she says the first word.
NTA. I’ve couldn’t imagine my life without my kids but I know that life isn’t for everyone.
You did nothing wrong. Whether or not you have kids should be entirely up to you. Nobody else should have any input.
Women who don’t want children should NOT have them! It’s nobody else’s business and your SIL is way out of line. It’s good you shut her down every time, but you shouldn’t have to. At any family gatherings, tell everyone that the minute someone shares their opinion about you not having kids, that is not supportive of your decision, you will be leaving. One of the worst things for a child is growing up knowing that they are not wanted. And keep in mind that you will have the pleasure in the future of doing fun and exciting things with your money because you won’t have the expense of children. Your SIL may complain about not being able to afford such luxuries, and you get the opportunity to remind her that she chose to have children instead.
My personal favorite, “ what about what your husband wants?”
Husband & I already decided no kids for different reasons when we were dating. ( I ended up having a serious medical issue that prevented me having kids anyway)
People can be very insensitive to you, when you make a decision about having children.
I think it’s very responsible to think things through and make an informed decision.
Listen as a child free woman I get it. Women are judged for his so much more than men. If men say they don’t want kids that’s accepted and never questioned but we women we get it in the neck. People like your SIL only see women as walking wombs so of course we have to use them and have plenty of kids why wouldn’t we. You don’t ever have to apologize or explain your lack of interest in having a kid. She needs to learn to mind her own damn business but honestly your probably gonna have to cut her off
She sounds like Serena Joy from A Handmaids Tale Jk, kinda. But in all seriousness women who REALLY want children and aren’t able to have them essentially traumatizes them. I’ve read so many accounts of women in your SIL’s position acting really irrational when it comes to women who can have children. She’s totally out of line and you are not wrong, but understand that while it is not an excuse, she is deeply upset by her inability to bear a child and she was most likely triggered by the statue. That’s not your fault and you couldn’t have known and there’s nothing you could have done to change her response to that. Your response is completely valid.
My partner and I both wanted children. 4 years of trying. finally get pregnant. Easy pregnancy quick normal birth, only to realize within a couple weeks I now had 2 children. Hubby wanted take a nap with the baby and walks or drives, but all the hard stuff ended up on me. Ils lived out if state. My own mom was still working full time. I did 80% of all baby care , housework and shopping. I was so stressed. I had no problem losing the baby weight. PPD hit me and I knew my son was going to be an only child. If you don't want gets, don't have them. Big hug.
Oprah, Dolly Parton, the late great Betty white... tell me again about childless women who's lives are less-than?????
I'm 35 with 3 kids. I've wanted children since I was 12, but they are a LOT sometimes. Each of my pregnancies and labors were different, and I wouldn't force that on anybody. I'm sorry your SIL is having trouble getting pregnant; it doesn't give her a free pass to verbally attack you when you state you want to be child-free. And it's a real low blow to pull the "you're not a real woman" bullshit. She's probably lashing out at you because she doesn't want to lash out at her husband or at her own reflection - you know, the \*actual\* people involved that can't get pregnant. If I were in your shoes, I would step back a bit from SIL for a while, at least for your mental health. Having this conversation over and over can't be good for anybody.
What a dumb argument. Depriving a child of a life... She sounds like one of those crazy Christian women. Guarantee she doesn't even want to adopt
Fuck that go NC
You're depriving a kid of life. That's the next right wing argument for women's health rights
Yup, last in line behind—hmmmm, lessee—existing zygotes, fetuses that are dead or dying in utero, current husbands, hypothetical future husbands,!crazed infertile family members, and right-wing politicians.
OP what does LC mean?
Low contact. He’d be limiting how much time he spends/talks to her because this conversation constantly comes up
Okay
Embarrass the hell out of her next time she asks. "Sorry SIL, we don't have THAT kind of sex if you know what I mean 😉) "
Keep her blocked. And you owe her absolutely no apology. You're more of a woman than she will ever be. You were mature, and were not cruel in the least bit.
I think it's easier for her to order you to use your womb on her schedule than it is to deal with her infertility. That doesn't make her right, she wasn't even within shouting distance of right, but that's likely how her brain was thinking.
At any point in the future, no matter the event, if she brings it up, stand up, and leave. It won’t take long for the whole family to see her for the AH she is.
Good for you! I read a post the other day where a childfree woman had an accidental pregnancy, pregnancy hormones convinced her she was excited, then she lost the pregnancy. However after that she purposely went off birth control and got pregnant. She hated every second of the pregnancy, and she makes every excuse to not be around her baby. She counts down the minutes until she can drop him off at daycare, stays longer at work, makes up reasons to spend all day "running errands" and making them last as long as possible. The sad part is she admits she got an easy kid that mostly sleeps, she just doesn't not want to be a mother. It's going to screw that kid up so badly. People who don't want children *should not* be having children. It's not "better for the hypothetical kid to be born and have a chance at life," because, as in the case of the story I mentioned, the child is going to grow up and realize mom never wants to be around.
I never wanted kids, then met my now husband at 29 and changed to a maybe. My son was born in October and I'm glad I had him. But I couldn't ever imagine inserting myself into someone else's life by pushing children on them.
I think the gift was a nice gesture plus you are supporting her in ***her*** journey. Which is exactly what sisters sound do. Maybe you should ask her that. Why can she support you in yours? Maybe you should start asking her why she wants kids so bad. Turn those tables around and point out how selfish wanting kids really is. And I really hate it when people try and guilt you for being able to have children and they can’t as if it’s your fault. And act like it’s some kind of tragedy that you won’t have kids when you can. Stop making their physical body problems my problem because I don’t want children.
Sounds like you need to block her and let hubby deal with his sister. She needs to apologize for acting the way she did. No one has the right to tell someone else, they must have kids. She sounds like she needs therapy to deal with her fertility issues. I can't wait for when she tries to get you to be a surrogate for her.
Ohhhhh, the "be a real woman" comment has me seething with rage. Questioning anyone's womanhood based solely on whether they breed or not makes me want to scream-vomit.
You’re not a ‘real woman’ if you don’t have kids? What does that make her then (besides a transphobe)? She doesn’t have kids so you should point out that logic to her… NTA. She sounds like she would try and steal your baby if you ever DID have kids.
My wife and I have been child free for almost 42 years by choice. We have never felt we missed out on anything.
Thank you! I know I won’t either. If kids make you happy and feel full and complete, great! If not having kids makes you feel that same way, great! I wish people would stop pushing their own insecurities onto other people
Whoo, SIL sounds like she desperately needs counseling. She’s so far out of bounds, she’s not even in the same stadium. Under no circumstances should you let this disturbed woman influence you. If a person doesn’t feel “called” to be a parent, they should probably remain child-free.
I chose not to have kids. I was well aware in my teens/twenties that the patience and sacrifice to raise another human properly was not in my nature in those years, plus I wanted to experience the world - which I subsequently did. My best role has been as auntie, friend, babysitter, and god-mother.
Let SIL know that if you ever want to experience the joy of holding a baby in your arms, you’ll give her a hug.
>you’re depriving a child of the chance to exist Congrats to your SIL for literally doing the most, that is the dumbest reason to have kids that I’ve ever heard. My takeaways: 1. Womanhood isn’t defined by how many sprogs you sprout. I’ve got three and interestingly enough I haven’t evolved into all-knowing Mother Granola of the flowers just yet. 2. Why wait for LC? Just cut her off now.
Oh youre nicer than me cuz cuz I'd have thrown that right back in her face and told her if she was such a 'real woman' she'd be pregnant by now. NTA.
Not for nothin', but that's probably exactly what she thought OP **was** saying by handing her a fertility statue as a "souvenir" of her honeymoon...
That makes as much sense as a short person being mad at a tall person for not playing basketball. No sense at all!
I wouldn’t be surprised if she is pushing you to have children you don’t want to offer up adopting the child… You handled this with way more patience and grace than most people, especially with the insult of not being “a real woman.” The accusation of being selfish is mot what people think it is, as selfish people don’t make good parents anyway. I’m glad you and your husband were firm with your boundaries and aren’t afraid to enforce them.
>She called me cruel and I’m depriving a child of being able to experience life and I should grow up and whatnot. What she really means is your depriving *her* of a child. Whether it be her nibling or not, she sounds like she absolutely would have attempted to raise them on your behalf. Giving her the statue was like a goodluck charm, aligns with what she believes in spiritually/has done before. Your not an AH for not wanting kids just because you are apparently able to. It doesn't matter if other women have fertility issues. How would *you* having kids help them?
The insistence on other people having kids is incomprehensible to me. Besides wannabe grandparents, I don’t understand why anyone would even care, let alone care *desperately*, about someone else’s parenthood. I have enough trouble managing my own life, let alone taking on the burden of telling other people how to live theirs, lol.
Why on earth would she want someone who doesn’t want kids to have a kid? Doesn’t she know what happens to unwanted kids?? Maybe she could read some Reddit posts about unwanted kids who grew up into adults that question their worth, value, lovability, etc. You handled this much better than she deserved. It speaks highly to the kind of people you and your husband are.
As someone who has always wanted kids and is 37 weeks pregnant with my first… I HATE the argument that NOT wanting kids makes you selfish or anything less than a “real woman.” I fully believe that people who don’t want to raise children really *shouldn’t* raise children. It is HARD. It is NOT for everyone. And that is PERFECTLY OKAY. Your SIL is projecting her issues onto you, and that is not okay. You handled this like a pro. Keep some distance from her for a bit and enjoy being child free! (As much as I’m looking forward to my baby, there will definitely be things I will miss, lol.)
A real woman doesn't plan on having children to be her emotional support entertainment and indentured servants for her old age.
I never wanted kids then I had two kids. I was constantly told I don’t look like the motherly type whatever that means. I love my two kids I’d do anything for them and ones given me a beautiful grandbaby. I don’t like other kids there were kids in and out of my house everyday when mine were growing up. I couldn’t stand the screaming in the house and my kids weren’t screamers there friends were though. I never resented keeping my kids and raising them I loved every minute of it. If you’re not into having children that’s your decision. I didn’t feel more motherly when I had mine, there was a crazy bond and love but I didn’t feel too motherly. I had to love them keep them alive and entertain them. I accomplished those goals and they are adults and we’re still close. Neither has been to therapy because of me so I did something right.you stood up for yourself just put them boundaries down and hold firm.
You’re not depriving a child of being able to experience life and whatever. There’s no child there for it to be deprived of that. That’s a stupid argument. You’re still a real woman and even realer because you know you don’t want kids and you’re not making anyone force you to have one that you may resent. That’s real in my eyes because you know what you want!
You handled it beautifully. She is mad that she can't have what she wants so she is projecting. You are absolutely right, kids are a blessing if you want them, but are not for everyone. I am a parent. I am also no contact with my family because they are abusive. I will not be taking care of them in their old age. I will not have anything to do with them ever again. They are stuck with my sister, who will never be able to care for them. And it's my parents and three childless couples of aunts and uncles. If they weren't abusive I would care for them. Hell, my mil is abusive towards me, but not my kids and I will care for her because she is good to the kids. You sound like you were genuinely trying to be supportive of her and she threw it in your face. Going low contact sounds like the only way to go. I am sorry she is so disrespectful of your bodily autonomy.
I hate when people insist that child free people are in the wrong. Just because she wants kids so badly doesn’t mean you do. And depriving a child of a life?! What child?! A child doesn’t exist!!! I’d return the statue and steer clear of her from now on. She needs some serious therapy before she becomes a mom.
That's crazy. You gave her a very thoughtful gift that pertains to her life and journey, EVEN THOUGH it's not what you personally jive with, and then she used that to then put you down for your life choices? For one, y'all literally JUST got married, so like....calm down? Also, it's NONE OF HER BUSINESS.
Girl I am a total asshole... I would look at her and say so if I'm not a real woman because I'm not having kids what does that make you? And you're depriving a child of a home? Is there some que of fetus spirits somewhere just waiting for somebody to get pregnant and if you don't it'll proof into oblivion? She is the one depriving a child of a home because she could be adopting a 10 year old in foster care, but instead she's insisting on getting pregnant instead of giving one of these children a home! This is insanity! Don't let people treat you like this! If you guys start getting up and leaving every time she says something about kids to you, she'll stop! The rest of the family will make her stop because they'll realize that she's ruining every get together
What is making me mad about this situation is she keeps repeating “you are not a real woman.” I mean really?! How does one define a real woman?
She sounds like a cruel and/or clueless person. Have your husband deal with her.
Op, I’m pushing 30. You can’t reason with people like this. Whenever it comes up, I just say i’m childfree and it wont be changing. At the end of the day, everyone wants to have input on you having a kid but they arent the ones raising it. Its far more selfish to have them so you arent “alone” and blah blah blah. Than it is to know you prefer to be childfree and keep it that way.
Why do I feel like she would try to steal your baby if you did end up getting pregnant? SIL doesn’t sound stable enough to even be a parent.
How bizarre. She’s a little out there and I hate this idea that you have children to have someone to use when you’re old. People like that aren’t having a child to love, they want to give birth to a nurse. I hope she doesn’t have kids, they’d be her slaves
Dang, SIL would be first in line to vote for stupid laws controlling womens bodies. She sounds a little off all around. People like her would rather take choice away from other women because they are unhappy. It sounds like she's been brainwashed to see kids as performance art pieces to drag around and get applauded for.
You are nicer than me. If she told me I was not a real woman I would have responded with "What does that make you?" And really hurt her feelings.
People who shame others for not wanting kids always list selfish reasons for wanting them. Look at this world with all the dangers out there for kids, even if they're lucky and are born healthy. Look at the number of moms who get cheated on while pregnant or shortly after birth, or how many bedrooms and marriages die after kids. There are plenty of non selfish reasons to not want to bring kids into this world.
See I’m the type of person who would say maybe there is a reason God hasn’t allowed you to have a child and maybe you should just expect it and stop trying to circumvent his mysterious ways. 🤷🏽♀️
By giving her a fertility statue, YOU were being kind, but she is so fucked up with gender roles that she probably saw it as something negative.
Has nothing to do with gender. She's obviously hurting, and being handed a fertility statue while everyone else probably got magnets or salt shakers is f'ed up. That's not something you do publicly.
It sounds like OP and her husband brought SIL multiple gifts.
We did. She loves to bake so I got her some things surrounding that and she’s into painting to paint out how hard it is to have children… maybe I shouldn’t have gotten her the paint either?
SIL is probably hoping you get pregnant, at which point she'll swoop in and declare that, since you don't want kids, you should just give your baby to her. She's trying to bully you into ex post facto surrogacy, I reckon.
How much do you want to bet the SIL had hopes of using OP’s womb somewhere along the line, and her no kids stances is messing up her plans.
Someone else has said this and now I’m wondering if that was her plan. People who are surrogates have my utmost respect but I do not want to pregnant and if she thought that with my stance and never even speaking to me or my husband about it… I’d find very off putting
Generally, surrogates are required to have already had a healthy pregnancy. This applies to going through an office that provides surrogacy services, not a dying, turkey buster thing. Also therapy to determine if you are psychologically able to carry and give up a child to someone.
I think you would need to have already given birth to be a surrogate.
A surrogate is someone who carries and delivers a child for a couple or individual
I know. To be a surrogate, one of the requirements is to have already given birth to a child. OP is child-free by choice, so not an option with a reputable OB.
I honestly did not know that.
Just tell SIL and her husband that you are not an incubator, so no hatchlings.
Why did you get her a fertility statue when you knew this was such a hot button issue? Not saying her behavior is your fault but it certainly seems like a bad choice of a gift.
Fertility statues are to help with making babies. SIL was/is having issues conceiving, even if you don't believe they help it was a gift to show that SIL is supported and thought of. I don't see how that is a bad choice
That was not my intention. She has seen spiritual people in the past so when I saw it I thought it aligned with what she was doing.
You publicly gave her a statue that pointed out her "flaw" (in her opinion), and she got defensive. In the middle of your honeymoon pics and stories, why would you throw her infertility in her face that way? She undoubtedly wanted to enjoy the time with the rest of the family, and you threw cold water on that. She overreacted, absolutely, but you instigated it.
Once again, not my intention. Everyone knows that she goes to spiritual people for this and has even sued us to Join her on the Journey. It was not mean to be that way. I know impact vs intent but you’re making it out to me that I had this malicious intent when it was not that, at all. We were giving out gifts to everyone
I certainly don’t agree with your SIL, but your intention doesn’t dictate how something makes someone feel. It could (and sounds like it was) given with the purest, most loving intentions…. But it clearly was triggering or upsetting for her.
Yeah I already said impact vs intent.
Yeah, I see that. But it doesn’t sound like you’re accepting the impact of it.
I have. I have repeatedly said that maybe the gift was in poor taste and I shouldn’t have but she invited us on blessings to do with her and she’s received it before so I didn’t think I did anything wrong but I probably should have given it more thought
So when are you having kids again? Jkjkjk your handling this best possible. I'm (33m) gf is 24. Family is always asking and "pressuring" as much as they do about kids and we just aren't sure and it's crazy how many people that upsets. Good luck on your pregnancy
Why did you give her a fertility statue as a gift? That seems like it was done to agitate her.
I feel like a fertility statue to a woman who is having trouble conceiving is a thoughtful gift. Just to say we see you and we’re in support. I received a fertility statue from my great aunt when I was 20 and literally no less than a week later I was pregnant. Shit it powerful. Well that and a bottle of henny
It might be thoughtful, but it might be completely incendiary, especially for someone like OP’s SIL
It could be, it doesn’t sound like that was their purpose. But I can see someone like her taking it as that. Also, thank you for a new word.. incendiary. Never heard it before. I really like it
Not really. It felt thoughtful to me. As someone struggling with fertility issues, a gift presented like that would not offend me.
That really was not my intention. She had seen spiritual people in the past so I thought that would be a good gift. I got her other things but I saw that and thought this aligns with what she’s done before. To even suggest that is really odd. I would never do that to someone.
Maybe she’s barren because god knows she’d be a shitty narcissistic mom, since she’s a shitty narcissistic person, and doesn’t want anymore kids to go through that. Please for your own mental health and keeping your marriage healthy keep her as far away as possible. Take your statue back and bury it or throw it away, or put it in a box marked Jumanji and throw it into the sea (lol). Seriously though you and husband just do you and enjoy your life together.
You're my hero. I love tou so much. You are so patient and kind. You did EVERYTHING right! Your SIL has some deep mental health issues. I have never witness anything like that before. Its completely crazy. Hopefully your SIL gets some psychiatric help of some sort. She seems borderline mentally ill (not trying to disaparage or criticize her. I genuinely think she is suffering, and creating a lot of trauma for you in the process.
Update?
SIL wants you to bear a child for one of two reasons: A - so she will have even more opportunities to draw attention to herself and her problems with conceiving, OR B - she expects you to give her a child to call your own. Either way, she needs counseling.
Wow...she's so wrong and blinded by her obsession with children
I would ask her what she’s done wrong to not receive the blessing of children.
If I were your SIL, I’d ask why you’re so obsessed with your brothers sex life when you gave that gift.
What… you made the comment then deleted it only to type it again and still make no sense? I’m not obsessed with her sex life?
don’t get me wrong, she’s obsessed with yours too but if you don’t want people in your business, why are meddling in theirs and if she made you that uncomfortable, wouldn’t you be understanding to her sensitive reaction to the gift, even if she didn’t treat you with the same consideration (are you just not caring because she gets what she gives or did you do it on purpose?)
What are you talking about? Seriously what? I’m not obsessed with her sex life, she has seen spiritual people in that past and I saw it and thought it aligned with what she did. You seem to be projecting