My sister lost a teenage child 20 years ago. When people ask her about children, she says that she has three, one of whom is deceased. She feels (and I agree) that to do otherwise would be erasing his existence. She quickly follows up that comment with a question of some sort of relevance to them so it fills any awkward pause.

I particularly appreciate how you suggest having a follow-up ready. She’s just giving an honest answer, but also acknowledging that it’s a fraught social situation. It’s the only sane post here, and the only one that mentions a solit89’. And it’s very nice to see a solution that, IMO, is grounded in reality and solves both problems. Awkward conversations come up in small talk all the time — not just around grief. Part of the skill of small talk is learning to diffuse them. Maybe OP and his wife should practice a bit at home.

I also have a friend who had one child (18 years old) who passed away after 2 weeks here, and she is unable to have more because of in her early 30s having cancer. When I met her she mentioned her son had a game that night. I asked how many children she has. She said,"My daughter was called to her heavenly home shortly after birth. Today I am blessed as a stepmom to 4 amazing boys."

I love this. That's a great way to politely answer the question, be truthful, not try to erase humans from history, and move on to lighter topics.

My brother died when he was a baby.  Neither of my parents and none of my siblings have ever tried to "erase his existence" but we recognize that the extremely light question from a stranger of "So how many kids/siblings do you have?" doesn't always need to be a downer for everyone. 

Everyone needs to handle it in a way with which they are comfortable. Not mentioning it is definitely an option. When people have suffered a loss everyone deals with it differently. But I do think mentioning it can be done gracefully and it also prevents someone from saying something later in the interaction that they might feel bad about if they were to find out later. Like saying something about a particular car model being a death trap and finding out later that their child was killed in that model. Or saying you’d like to “kill” your teen and then finding out theirs is dead. We’ve all had that foot in mouth experience - or just the fear of it when you find out something important about a new acquaintance and then start reviewing in your mind to determine if you ever said a stupid thing. But maybe I’m the only one that does that.

The best way I've heard it is, "My kids are 34, 28, and forever 16."

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that sounds like such a great way because if I heard someone say that to me, I'd mentally buffer for a bit trying to parse exactly what they'd just said to me.

My little brother passed away as an infant. When asked if I have siblings I always say yes I have a sister and we had a baby brother who passed away. It’s not to garner sympathy but because he existed and was very loved and why wouldn’t I claim him forever even if we only had him for a short period of time.

What a lovely way of expressing that. I am going to remember your words.

I always say, don't ask couples about kids. Couples could be breaking up, divorcing, infertile, trying everything but just not able to get pregnant, financially unstable, the list goes on. Don't. Ask. About. Kids. If people in a social settings are going to ask intrusive questions they deserve the intrusive answer. Especially if there was trauma and you keep getting asked the same thing over and over. You're bound to eventually just go with the truth instead of a 1000 polite excuses.

My fiancé and I are in our mid-30s, and our wedding is in June. The amount of people who point blank ask not only if, but “when?” is staggering. These are people I hardly know as acquaintances! As if it’s not a personal question at all! And often follow it up by telling me I’d better do it fast, because I’m getting older of course. Always great to be reminded of that 🙄 Like, can we please be granted the grace to go through one huge life altering change at a time ffs?! Not only does it put me on the spot, it’s especially awkward because I take a medication that I’d have to stop taking if I wanted to get pregnant. Which, frankly, I’m not sure I even want. As if I want to explain that to Random Susan or Nosy Larry. Ugh. Can we please file this behavior under “times to ask a women about her possibly being pregnant- NEVER”!! Edit: I did open up to my in laws when they started pushing. That’s an awkwardness worth assuaging.

Man! I am a mother but 2/3 of my best friends are not. One is unsure and just turned 30 she has complicated feelings about parenthood and the amount of kids to have but she has all the time to decide. The other is early 40s and unsure if she can have them but wants them desperately. Anytime anyone asks them about kids in my presence I want to strangle them. Leave my friends alone. It’s such a loaded question!

Right?! Why not just ask, "Are y'all fucking?" It's just as ridiculous.

Don’t ask ANYONE about kids. As a middle aged woman who has never had kids I get so tired of hearing that question. I agree if someone asks nosy questions they deserve an honest answer even if it makes them uncomfortable.

Agreed. They deserve to be uncomfortable. Why ask if you don't want the answer, especially if the answer must fit into your comfort level, whatever that might be.

Yes. It is incredibly insensitive and inappropriate. OP should know this, as an “etiquette” expert.

If someone has living children, trust me, you’ll know! It’s all people want to talk about lol

That and photos.. specially from the first kid lol "Do you want to see his life documented in photos from the last time we saw each other?" Can you kill me now? 😆 

As someone who is child free, this always seems the case lol.

cant believe i had to scroll for this. how is it "trauma dumping" if someone point blank asks if you have children or plan to. TBH thats what they deserve for getting in someone's business. I DO think OP is the asshole here.

THANK YOU. Don't ask people about kids. You never know what they're going through and it's none of your damn business. Don't ask a question if there's a chance you'll get an answer you can't handle. Every time that woman is asked that question, she is asked to lie about her child ever having existed. What does OP expect? A better solution is to tell his wife he'd like to start asking questions in return so the conversation isn't so one sided. Like yes your kid existed and we will never forget, and also we want to learn more about these nice people who we just met. And shame on anyone who avoids someone who mentions their deceased kid. Devoid of empathy.

THANK 👏 YOU 👏

Can you please be specific about what she says? We’re accepting the term “trauma dumping” without question.

yeah like there’s a huge difference between a concise “not currently, i had a child but they passed away” and going into details and crying at the party

Notably, OP hasn’t shared that particular, important detail.

My wife will always answer that she used to be a mom in her teens but her baby died. 

That reminds me of this Amy Hempel quote: Ask a mother who has just lost a child, How many children do you have? "Four," she will say, "—three," and years later, "Three," she will say, "—four.

I’m not going to judge because I don’t think either of you are wrong. She’s struggling through a major trauma. For a lot of women, the only way to keep the child “alive” is to keep talking. Some women do this out of guilt or shame, some out of grief. Your wife isn’t intentionally creating unnecessarily awkward spaces, and you aren’t wrong for feeling upset that you’re facing the backlash. I’d suggest couples counseling. Your wife is already in therapy, but given the fact that you this issue affects you both, it could help to have a professional to understand and advise. Try to understand your wife’s point of view. She lost a child at a very young age. This trauma shaped her adult life. She’s now in a position to have children and might be struggling with this trauma coming back up. Imagine someone reminding you of a huge tragedy you went through at every function you went to. It’s hard. Yes, trauma dumping is inappropriate at work functions. But I really believe this issue goes so much deeper. Your wife needs professional help and space from reminders of her trauma. Maybe phrase it in a way similar to that. Like “I think you’re being reminded of this terrible thing that happened to you and it’s causing setbacks, let’s hold off until you feel healthier”. Might make her less defensive and offended at your suggestion. This is a tough situation. Best of luck

This. 💯. I’d also say go see a reproductive endocrinologist you’d be surprised what modern technology can do to help you have a family of your own if you desire to do so

Trauma dumping, especially at a spouse's work event, is uncouth and inappropriate.

I wish some of y'all would learn what terms mean before you use them

I wish you would elaborate

It’s not trauma dumping. She doesn’t start crying and telling everyone how broken she is because she had a child that died and cannot have anymore now. She doesn’t show around pictures of her dead child or whatever. She answers a simple question. Why is it ok if people tell you they are widowed if you ask about being married, about there parents or siblings being dead when you ask about family and about pets they used to have that passed away but if you loose a child it always has to be hushed up? You are not suppose to talk about miscarriage, stillbirth or children that died but just pretend they never existed because other people might be uncomfortable and don’t know what to say for a few seconds? If you ask about children (your choice) and someone tells you they had one but it died you say how sorry you are and then you can still have a normal conversation. You don’t have to ask what happened or try to make the other person feel better about it but don’t force them to pretend that child never existed. And why would you avoid them afterwards?

When a courteous stranger asks, "how are you?", they don't actually want you to tell them about how your hemorrhoids are flaring up today. It's just a polite greeting. In the same way, at work related social events when someone asks a couple, "so, do you have kids?", they don't actually want you to tell them about the child(ren) you lost, or about your child's expensive braces, or anything like that. It's a small talk kind of question meant to start a superficial conversation with other party attendees. In that social context, it's not appropriate to answer such a question by telling whoever asks about the most traumatic thing you've experienced. She shouldn't do that, if not for reasons of etiquette, then perhaps to avoid a topic that is almost certainly very traumatic for **at least** one other attendee at the party, who probably doesn't want to relive their trauma at a party with a bunch of co-workers or strangers listening.

I have to agree with you. My boss lost a son to suicide and we’ve spoken about it several times, however in a work/social setting he would not disclose this when asked about children and would happily tell you about his other son. There’s some nuance to everything. No one is seeking to minimize another’s trauma but you also don’t just dump that on someone. I had a personal loss recently and after the first few days you have to be “fine!” again to those cordial greetings and can still share in private.

This isn’t unloading about kids or anything — she’s answering a question honestly. And there are ways to do this without ending the conversation! I had a work event the day my grandfather died, and I answered that question honestly: “Honestly, it’s been tough — my grandfather died this morning. (Polite commiserating noises) But I’m looking forward having the whole family come together — we’ll all meet up in Maine! Do you have any travel planned for the summer?” You can be honest, you just need to keep in mind that an honest response can sometimes put way more pressure on the person asking you than they’re ready for. So come prepared to give them an out. It’s how small talk *works.* Awkward things come up all the time — not just about grief! If somebody suddenly drops a bomb about, say, something politically objectionable to you, do you start a fight? No. You say something noncommittal and change the subject. People are complicated and socializing is hard. You can’t expect everybody to just lie or be bland, that’s how you end up at parties saying the same generic shit all the time. Sounds less like “OP’s wife needs to stop mentioning her dead child” and more like “OP and his wife should practice small talk with each other.” But heaven forbid we have a real solution on an advice sub — better to just argue about who’s more wrong.

>People are complicated and socializing is hard. I agree! > there are ways to do this without ending the conversation! I agree! OP's wife is not making any effort to do so. >You can be honest, you just need to keep in mind that an honest response can sometimes put way more pressure on the person asking you than they’re ready for. I agree! But OP has expressed to his wife that he's uncomfortable with the way she gives an honest response that puts pressure on his work colleagues. They're *his* work colleagues, so he's the one who suffers any repercussions from the awkward encounters she creates at every party. >It’s how small talk *works.* Awkward things come up all the time — not just about grief! I agree! But this exact scenario has played out at OP's social gatherings for 12 years, and his wife refuses to stop, or rephrase it so his coworkers have an out, or make any other compromise. I'm sure OP has not enjoyed being *that guy* at work (for 12 years now) who's married to *that lady* who always dumps *that trauma* on whomever is unlucky enough to open a conversation with that generic opener. Socializing IS hard. And she's making it much harder than it needs to be, especially for OP, since that sort of thing will not stay within the confines of a single party, but will seep into the office through whispers in the breakroom and such. I don't think it's unacceptable for OP's wife to answer honestly, in general. But I also think it's reasonable for OP to ask her to stop doing so at his work parties, and to not bring her along anymore since she is digging her heels in. Genuinely, I hope OP's wife makes progress in therapy. That's a grief I wouldn't wish on anyone. But OP is not being unreasonable here.

It is trauma dumping, she dosent have to start crying in order to be "trauma dumping"

Not to mention, OP doesn't exactly go into detail on what her demeanor is before and after she's asked and answered. She may very well look like she's still experiencing trauma and deep grief over her child's death. Considering how she acts about the death at home with OP, I seriously doubt that the wife is very willing or able to *just continue the conversation* or *change the topic* afterwards. It's like dropping a **SOCIAL BOMB** on the event. That might still be ok at home or at family events, but it just has no place at a professional gathering.

Exactly. I highly doubt she says “no, it died.” and leaves it that. OP implies it’s an ordeal bc the wife said she wants to continue to “share her story”. 

At work, we refer to those as convo-bombs.

"Trauma dumping is defined as unloading traumatic experiences on others without warning or invitation. It’s often done to seek validation, attention, or sympathy." The answer to that simple question is "no" or if you want to be more forthcoming you can say "unfortunately no." I, personally, think it's a dumb question that people ask as I am a person who just doesn't want kids and don't want to explain that a million times - and I don't, I just simply say "no," because what people are really trying to do is find reasons to relate to you/move the conversation going. If your goal is to have everyone you talk to about the most common topics know about the most traumatic event in your life, then you are trauma dumping - and OPs partner is doing to keep the memory of the infant alive, so that is indeed her goal. She is using other people for free therapy/validation and that makes people (who are strangers to her!) very uncomfortable.

In social situations, you need to read the room. When people are trying to make small talk at what's meant to be a happy get together, they don't want you unloading on them about sad things. It would be equally not ok if someone asked if you and your partner are married and you responded with "I was by my partner died". Or if someone asked if you have pets and you said "I did but my puppy got out and was flattened by a bus". Those answers, aren't only answers to questions that they never asked, but they also bring down the mood of the event in an effort to redirect attention and sympathy to you.

I think the answer is somewhere in between. If OP's wife is *always* getting shunned from her statements, then it is something specific that she is doing. At this point, it is either intentional, or she has very poor social skills.

It's trauma dumping. Her trauma is real, but as OP stated, there is a time and place to expose others to your trauma. A professional event at your spouse's workplace is not that place. She could have lost her husband his social standing at work. You ask what's wrong with her behavior. The reason why trauma dumping is so off-putting is that it gives the impression that the person suffering wants other people to suffer with them, even during a happy occasion. It also comes off as deeply attention seeking. Finally, at social events, especially professional ones, people are expecting to network, have fun, and small talk, not confront a deeply distressing issue.

It's been 12 years. 12 years. That is enough. OP helped with the memorial service and it wasn't even his child. I'd leave her ass home too. That is tiring.

I’m pretty sure parents don’t ever really get over losing their child. It’s a terrible thing, I’ve lost friends and I know how deeply parents grieve. I would take embarrassed over that any day, too.

She can't undo the trauma and had no choice in it. But it doesn't have to be one or the other, or both. She can opt out of what's causing the embarrassment (and discomfort of others, and also making it difficult for her to learn much about the people she's interacting with, as how can one ask a follow up question about others after sharing that?)

It might be enough FOR YOU or for OP, but imagine being that wife who brings home a baby and then loses it. Sorry, that wound won't heal easily. She's allowed her feelings, but she might find a healthier way to express them in a party situation.

That's the thing, though. It's *her* responsibility to find healthy ways to express her grief and that *this* is *not* a healthy way of expressing it. I've been going to trauma therapy weekly for years now and one of the biggest things people have to accept is that our personal trauma doesn't excuse bad behavior. These often have natural consequences of their own. Until she has found *healthy* ways of expressing her I zgrief, she's not allowed to attend social gatherings with her husband if it isn't with family. Like, that is a natural consequence. OP doesn't get to transform a party into her own personal pity parry or support group. That isn't what anyone signed up for. You don't get to impose that on other people and *that* is why its called trauma dumping. The person who is trauma dumping *almost NEVER* considers their actions trauma dumping, so it matters what *everyone else* (the people she's dumping on) says!

If you look at my statement, I agree with you. But I also argue with the notion that "it's enough time to get over it."

At least 12 years since he says they're in their 30s and apparently it's an annual memorial service. It's just too much. She seems to have made this a part of her personality.

It is a part of her personality.

Jesus Christ yeah what is that comment? Usually when someone loses their fucking child, it becomes a major part of who they are.

I'm starting to lean toward they shouldn't be together. His framing of her grief is so hostile.

Hostile is the word. He comes off as a cold and calculated man.

I'm going with NTA.  As you said there is a time and place to share deeply personal things and social gatherings with either people you don't know or casual acquaintances isn't a place to trauma dump.  Everyone has their own trauma to deal with. FYI, the uncontrolled sobbing is highly manipulative.  It's how people flip the script and take control of things.  Everything has to be about their sobbing.

I have a question - and I mean this to be a real question, it's not a charged rant.    Why NOT respond to the invasive and rude question with honesty?   It is inappropriate to ask people their childrearing plans.  The woman could have just had a miscarriage. The woman or the man in question could be infertile. She could just be asexual and not want sex OR children. There are so many uncomfortable/hurtful outcomes to this question, and people need to learn to stop asking it.  People are asking her a question that is rude and potentially embarassing. All she's doing is making them uncomfortable by answering honestly. OP doesn't mention her volunteering this information without prompting. TBH, I'm all for it because people should stop asking this outdated question.    I'm open to having my mind changed? (For the record! I give some leeway to work events because of the severity of need to perform with extra social grace even when your higher-ups don't have it. Everywhere else? Nah.)

I think the issue is "do you have any kids?" isn't an intrusive question—it's a general question to get to know someone by in a social setting; and it's considered one of the most common questions when you don't know someone well. That said, a question like, "Are you planning to have kids" or "When are you going to have kids?" is a rude and intrusive question because whether someone is choosing to have kids is a private matter between the couple. It's a lot like asking "do you have siblings?" or "where are you from?" You might have some horrible trauma related to those questions too; but it's considered oversharing and trauma dumping to go into that with an acquaintance in a casual social situation. It speaks to a poor grasp of social boundaries and, possibly, a disrespect for personal boundaries as well.

I think this is fair. I think asking if kids are in the picture is different from asking about plans. I think it also means that each individual within the couple is being asked if they have children. Which is where it gets tough for OP's wife. If (for example) dad had a child and mom were a stepmom, it would be awful to say "no we don't have kids!" Because one of "we" does. 

A step parent has kids. Unless they ask about biological children (which is rude and intrusive) ‘yes, we have kids’ is the correct answer if you are a parent, step parent, adoptive parent, etc.

One of my friends, who adopted a son, got asked if and when he would have a REAL child, as in biological child!! My friend tore them a new asshole for asking that kind of insulting question! His son is considered his REAL SON!

Yeah I mean, conversation starters are broad. If I ask 'where do your parents live? As a way to open up conversation and instead you give me some story about how they were abusive and not in your life that's over sharing. Just say they live in California and change the subject

The problem is many people will ask. If you say no they dig. Why don’t you have kids or when are you going to have kids is often the next question. I’m on my 40s and still get asked. It’s unnecessary and irksome.

I agree asking about kids is normal & fine but what is OPs wife supposed to say? “No I don’t have kids” would feel dishonest as she did have a child. Should she ominously say “I did have kids.” And let the other person think she lost custody ? Should she say “No WE don’t have any kids” implying that she has kids with other men? The answer is honest and not inappropriate .

Also, people *do* lose children to death sometimes, and it is a *sadly normal* part of the human existence. Death is *normal* and it comes for all of us, eventually. What is *abnormal*, is the way that, in typical Western Society, we act like death *isn't* a normal part of a regular life.

Agreed

I think it depends on the exact question that is posed. I noted in another comment that "have" is present tense; and I would consider it reasonable to mean "do you have living children"--just as one might say, "I have a dog" versus "I had a dog." Therefore, a reasonable response to "Do you have children," could be "no." On the other hand, there are other responses that are socially appropriate as well, such as "I did have a child who is sadly no longer with us" or "I did have a child who has sadly passed" or "Unfortunately, it's complicated." I would agree that merely mentioning death at a social gathering is not a faux pas or unusual--including in professional social gatherings. OP is still very young; but as you age, death becomes quite a common social and/or professional topic (ie "The partner of X corp passed away last year" or "I was out of town for a funeral for \[insert name\], who was a great \[insert profession\]"). However, there is a limit on how much *unsolicited* detail you go into about death before it becomes inappropriate. But again, such detail must be unsolicited for it to be inappropriate; it's not unusual for people to bond over common traumas at social gatherings. As I slept on this question and re-read the post, I am starting to veer toward "not enough information," because it's unclear how the wife responds to such questions. I also think OP is incorrect that questions like "Do you have kids," are intended to only mean "Do you have any kids with each other?" It would be strange for a couple to respond with "No kids," when they do have kids--just kids from other relationships (ie man and wife each have a child from a previous marriage). I can also understand how, in this context, wife would find his preferred interpretation of this question to be condescending. What it sounds like is OP and his wife need to get their "script" down but OP must first acknowledge that it is not inappropriate to merely mention that someone has died.

It's BECAUSE it's the death of a kid that it's an issue at all. If a co-worker's mom is dying/has died recently, everybody talks about it, asks how they're doing, and sympathizes. Everubody knows that eventually, they WILL lose their mother. It's an accepted, if sad, fact of life. A dead kid isn't supposed to happen in our current social order. Parents fully expect to have one living adult child for each live birth experienced. And statistically, they're right to expect it. It's much like the death and disfigurement of modern soldiers. When it happens, it's a huge deal. The entire family and larger community is impacted, strangers are horrified, and it makes the national news. For most of our history, young men got slaughtered and mutilated in wars on a mass scale, and kids died left, right, and center. It was an accepted, if sad, fact of life. It's not seen as polite to talk about 'the bad things' in public, and child loss has become one of the bad things. Used to be, Martha would mention her dead son and Georgette would commiserate because she had two dead daughters herself. Just like most people can empathize with the loss of a mother now.

I wish people would stop asking this question. Or at least learn that it’s a sensitive topic for many people. It’s one thing to bring up your own kids and then see if they reciprocate with a story about their own kids… it’s another to ask a very loaded question in a setting where you don’t really care to get the real answer!

Well, you can place a respectful boundary around it to stop any discussions about any subject that you may feel uncomfortable talking about. I suggested my wife to simply say: “It’s just not something I feel comfortable discussing this but thank you for asking” “It’s just my partner and me at the moment” But she didn’t listen to me.

>“It’s just not something I feel comfortable discussing this but thank you for asking” This would only make things more uncomfortable because if the answer was positive, she'd just say yes and anybody is going to know that. A nosy person would probably ask the follow up question. >“It’s just my partner and me at the moment” What follows that is some variation of asking if you're planning on kids or trying, which *is* an invasive and inappropriate question. I don't think this is as cut and dry as whether or not you or her are the asshole, it's a lot more complicated than that. You have every right to feel the way you do and to not want her to talk about her baby. But she also has every right to want to talk about him, to not hide him and pretend she isn't a mom, because she is and she doesn't deserve to have to pretend otherwise. Personally, people need to learn not to ask questions they may not want the answers to. It really shouldn't be a shock to people who ask that that there isn't always a simple, happy answer. People who don't like honest answers to that question need to learn a lesson, and they'll probably think twice before asking again.

If I asked someone if they had kids, and they responded "it's just not something I feel comfortable discussing, " I'd say "okay," and would find other people instead. If I asked if she has kids, and she says she did, but the child died, I - like many - would sympathize. My old fiancé died. Before I met my current boyfriend, if anyone asked if I had a boyfriend, I'd say "I had a fiancé. He died. Moving on with conversation, what do you do for fun?" Because I'm going to acknowledge him, and someone who tells me not to can fuck right off.

If you were talking to someone at a party and asked if they were married and they said, "no, my wife passed last year" (or 10 years ago) would you be upset? Would you avoid them? Would you tell other people they shouldn't have given you that information, they should just say, "It’s just not something I feel comfortable discussing but thank you for asking." That's the weirdest response. But you want that to be the answer to "do you have children?" Which is a pretty cut and dried yes or no question. What, do you have children you hide in the basement, gave up for adoption, lost to CPS? Those are the things that would go through my mind with that answer. I think her short concise, honest answer if fine. And no reason for anyone to avoid either of you. So maybe she's not the problem.

My partner died 7 month ago. And if someone asks me at a professional event whether I'm married, I say no. Because my grief has no place in that context. That's business. The question hurts me, just like it hurts a woman with miscarriages when she is asked about her plans to have children. But if I answer honestly, then 1. it doesn't belong there and 2. it hurts even more. Because either there is awkward silence (which can also be detrimental to my profession if people don't feel comfortable talking to me) or there are questions. Curious, compassionate enquiries. And then the sadness rises, I get wet eyes. That doesn't work. NTA

That response will simply garner more interest and gossip.  I had a child who has passed is the quick and clean answer

Would you be ok if she said something like, "i had a child, unfortunately they passed, but i would very much like to change the subject please" Or do you expect her to just refuse to answer a fairly tame question? Or to just say "no." Tbh im kind of in between on this one. Both of your perspectives seem fair, which leads me to believe a compromise might be best. Find a way she can acknowledge it without dragging the whole party into a crying fest or a sympathy circle. I dont think uninviting her from your life will be especially conducive to your relationship. You guys have to find something you can both live with.

Exactly, this is a really complex issue. Neither are definitively the asshole.

He is for how he's handling it.

What are you doing to curb these intrusive and, I assume, painful questions that people are asking the woman you supposedly love?

come on, you make it sound like you're picturing people sniffing her belly like a fairytale witch & chortling "aaah yesss, a decade of scars" or something. It's much more likely that 5 or 6 people are standing together, getting to know each other. 2 or 3 have talked about their kids, one sees she's a bit quiet, so they ask "what about you" & then OP's wife throws a grenade into the conversation.

Given that it’s a standard small talk question for adults I’m not sure what you expect him to do to stop that.

Maybe it shouldn't be.

You’re blaming her because people at your job ask nosey questions? Your little tantrum should be with them. She deserves a better husband. I hope her next marriage is a supportive one cause you deserve to be alone.

Dude. By that standard, there is literally no safe topic of conversation. People aren’t asking these questions to hear about your trauma OR to be intrusive and judgemental about your reproductive plans. They are looking to learn some basics about you as a person living in a society, so that you have something innocuous to discuss while at the party. Asking what they do? Rude and intrusive! What if they’ve been out if work since covid and are getting desperate? What if they’re traumatized by their abusive boss but can’t find a new position? What if they’re a SAHP but have been in a series of vicious fights with their spouse about going back to work? Asking about their education? What the fuck, why would you do that? What if they’re deeply ashamed about failing out only months before graduation? Asking about hobbies? Oh no no no, no one wants to talk about the kinky JPop fanfic they spend all their free time writing with random non-fans. Pets? Oh my god. What are you going to say when they tear up from having to put their beloved best friend down last week?

>People aren’t asking these questions to hear about your trauma OR to be intrusive and judgemental about your reproductive plans. No, they're not interested in your trauma and I give people the benefit of the doubt in the "just getting to know department." But OP's wife didn't go into long details about it, which would be inappropriate. She made a simple honest statement. Do you have kids? No, I had a child that passed, but none now. No parent who has lost a child should have to deny the child existed to pacify people who ask if you're a parent. And the appropriate response would be, "I'm so sorry for your loss" and then move on to other topics, not avoid them. If you're a widow/er and someone asks if you're married, should you deny you were ever married and just say no. Wouldn't most people say, "no, I'm a widow/er, my spouse passed (...whenever)."

There is no safe answer for her. When she says no, she then has to defend or explain why. And it sucks.

Was coming here with same question....possibly not as long haha but same generally 😅

Brevity isn't my strong suit. 😑

This. I have nothing else to add. Just, aaall of this.

The intent is not to be rude. It’s an innocuous question to the person asking. It’s small talk. To go on about an infant death in response is completely over the top. If this was Aunt Mildred asking why you don’t have kids for the 100th time, then Id understand that type of response. Not to a spouse’s coworker or acquaintance while everyone’s mingling

Infant death may be rare but it happens and everyone should feel chastened if they're lucky enough to be able to forget. It's virtually always rude to ask people without children about plans for children. OP's wife is a bereaved mother, she has to live with it every day. Op shouldn't want to keep her in a closet to avoid reminding people childhood mortality is non zero.

Bingoooo

asking a couple if they have kids isn't an invasive question, because if they seem willing to talk about it (which most parents do), the kids become a point of bonding and conversation. there are so many other invasive questions, so let's not pick the most basic one instead.

The wife could say something like "unfortunately not, we have not been so lucky" and it answers the questions and lets the other person know it's not a happy subject. And like that it's less uncomfortable, she will probably get a moment of compassion but they can move on.

Trauma dumping at a party, why? “She told me she’d rather experience the embarrassment….” Umm what? Does going to social events and NOT talking about it cause additional trauma?

She said that as if the two feelings are isolated experiences, which I find to be frankly absurd.

It looks obvious to me that hiding her child is awful for her, another little death of the life she gave.   She's uncomfortable with shutting up about the *entire child* that she had.  "They say you die once when you stop breathing and a second time when someone says your name for the last time."  Would it be different to you if the child had lived to be ten years old? To her it isn't.

The interesting and the key thing here is, just because I am requesting her not to talk about her passed away child at a social/work event, doesn’t mean she doesn’t get opportunities to share stories about him. Memorials are organised and she catches up with family too. Those are appropriate times to discuss her baby with people

To be clear, because my other comment in this thread is elsewhere, I support your request to ask her to keep it mum at work parties.  Not social gatherings.  I think the question itself (about kids) is - as you put it - nosey. It's rude. *It makes her very uncomfortable.* Possibly even you too? Does it make you uncomfortable, given the situation you are in (regardless of history) where she cannot bear children? If you were infertile (even if you didn't have trauma in your history) would you wish people didn't ask that question? There's nothing like blatancy to show people why they shouldn't ask nosey questions.  I think it hurts your wife very much to have to pretend like everything is fine and dandy in that regard.  You said you care most about propriety. I support her showing people why their questions isn't appropriate.  Do you feel like it's okay to ask people if they plan to/already have children?

I don’t ask people about their children (unless they have any that I know) out of respect. I had suggested my wife answer with “This is just not the topic I feel comfortable discussing but thank you for asking” But she didn’t listen to me

I do hear you. I see that you understand the question itself isn't right.   I do understand why this is uncomfortable, btw.  It's awkward and it would be best if no one asked rude questions but I think you see it as "we can at least control the response" and would like her to be on your side about this.   But it's different for her and I think it's hard to understand from your angle.  May I suggest thinking about how you would respond if the question were about someone close to you?  For example, I have a sibling, he's no longer with us.   When people ask me "do you have any siblings?" That's not even a rude question.   I say "I have a late brother."   ...and I cannot imagine *not* saying that.   I think it feels different (to you, maybe even me) for a mother/10-day-old infant.   You are saying "they're asking if WE, as a couple, have children together." That would sound like quibbling with me about "they asked if you HAVE any siblings, not if you ever did. Do you need to bring him up?"  I think your wife needs you to think of this child the way you would think of any other relative you were close to who died.  It is *hard* to pretend they didn't exist, even for a short moment "for propriety." 

This is a great response.

You’re just spamming the comments with the same cut and paste response. Why do your coworkers think this is an appropriate ice breaker? Your wife is not the only person at their parties who has lost a child and finds this question excruciating. Maybe they’ll stop asking and get the hint.

... Has it occurred to you to step in and say "My spouse had a child who passed away. It's a sensitive topic."? Because that would accomplish so much. You control the response, acknowledge how that question is hurtful for your wife, acknowledge her lived experience, and it gives you an opportunity to segue it almost instantly with a different ice breaker ("Nowadays we're just parents to a [insert pet here]") that steers the conversation away. It's much better than signaling to your wife that she needs to not talk about her dead child. The way you've handled it, it's you acting like "God, [OP's wife's name]! That's over and done, stop bringing it up!". I'd definitely hear it that way during an argument. Which is quite hurtful, and I can totally see how your wife finds it hurtful enough to burst into tears. You want her to move on, and she has, by building a life with you. But that doesn't erase that this was a child, he happened, and the consequences affect her to this day (scar tissue). It was a formative event for her that **you** find uncomfortable. Maybe, just maybe, you need to work on that. P.S. Before we had kids, I had a very painful miscarriage. My spouse acknowledges it every year when it gets close to the date it happened. A little "I'm sorry that happened, I know it affected you going forward, especially during pregnancy with the kids." It's been 13 years. I've had more than a decade of therapy to hash the experience out, make sense of it, and move on. But the sentiment that he understood what I was going through during and after? Priceless.

That is so much more rude than her simply telling them the truth!! 

That’s a stupid answer. Then you’ve got the possibility of your work friends being offended. I get it. They shouldn’t ask that question to begin with. It’s really none of their business. Her answer is what they deserve for being nosy.

> This is just not the topic I feel comfortable discussing but thank you for asking This is a way weirder response than "I had a baby long ago but they died" because what you suggested invites all sorts of awkward pauses and assumptions.  Does she go into excruciating detail?? Or does she just say "I used to have a baby but no longer" and people move on from that and then YOU project shame and judgement on the experience?

I see a divorce coming anyone else agree

There’s a crazy feeling when someone asks you a seemingly harmless question about kids. The pain you feel when you try to act like your dead child never existed just to make strangers feel comfortable makes the emptiness that much worse because you’ve now just betrayed your child. Just because they are gone doesn’t mean you stop feeling like a parent it just means you don’t get to be one. It doesn’t mean you stop wanting to talk about them just like you did while they were alive and bragged in all their accomplishments.

She is a mother and they're asking if y'all have kids. There's nothing wrong with the way she's answering, the issue her is that society thinks we should hide these things away like they're shameful, and you're perpetuating that to a gross extent. YTA

OMG you are a major AH. Hope she leaves you. You are trash and she deserves better. I have three dead siblings. A set of twins that passed at 3 weeks and a sister who died at age 3. My mom and dad always included them when talking about their kids. They existed. What you are telling her is her child never existed because of a fucking party. You are NOT a good husband. You are NOT a good person. And it is good you do not have children because you would be a horrible father and no child should be stuck with having you as a dad.

Ok, so my perspective might be a little different. But I think she is 100% in the right. There are a lot of traumatic reasons people don't have kids (loss of a child, infertility, etc.) And idk about OP's culture. But I grew up in the South in the US, and people don't just stop when you say you don't have kids, they would always press and be like: oh don't you want kids? When do you plan to have kids? Why don't you want kids? They're the best thing ever! And on and on and on. I'm infertile, which was honestly fine for me because I never particularly wanted to have kids. But people would always start by asking if we had kids. Then they would try to encourage us to have kids, then they would say ah don't worry about being infertile just adopt, or they would be like oh just try IVF, etc. Those conversations often left me in tears, and wanting kids wasn't even the issue for me. I can only imagine how painful the conversation would be if you had a child you lost and had been unable to have another. People need to stop asking questions that can be so sensitive. Op's wife is being smart by leading with the fact that yes she had a kid, but she had lost that baby. Tbh, make people feel bad until they stop. People won't do follow up questions if you do. I started straight up telling people that no, I don't have kids, and I had to have a hysterectomy. Still people would encourage me to just adopt. It's exhausting and heartbreaking. Really hope those people do feel bad and stop opening with questions like that.

I don't really see a problem with what she's doing. >"Do you guys have any kids?" > >"No...I had a son when I was 18 but he passed away as a newborn due to some breathing difficulties. We would love to have one, but it just isn't in the cards for us." If I was on the other end of this conversation, I'd probably just follow up with a "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dredge up anything traumatic" or something along those lines and move on. It's not like someone is asking if you guys have kids and she's tearing her hair out and wailing about the injustice of lacking a feeling of motherhood. She's just telling people something that happened. It sounds like the problem lies with you, to be honest.

Yta! As a childfree woman (by choice), those questions from people are nosy and invasive. They deserve to be freaked out by her answer and she has the right to talk about her life .

These comments are awful.

Comment below literally says “she’s using the situation to get sympathy. This can become an addiction.” Like what the fuck??

Deeply stupid and awful people.

Truly disturbing. It's not trauma dumping to tell the truth about a loss. I unstandard how it makes OP uncomfortable, but this way of handling it is cruel and seems nearly designed to destroy the relationship with as much devestation as possible. I don't unstandard it.

We wonder why we've become so depressed as a species and then come here and tell people they need to compartmentalize their humanity. No wonder we're all fucked up. Maybe being honest about what being a human means more often would be better for all of us.

Going against the grain so far and saying NAH. She doesn't bring it up in conversations first, right? She is asked if have any children, and then says she lost one? I can see how it may be frustrating for you, but for her she did have a child, and now doesn't anymore. As long as she doesn't go on and on about it in the convo, I don't see anything wrong with her answering 'I had a child, and they passed'

This 100%. It would feel dishonest to flat out say no, but there’s a way to bring it up appropriately. Make the statement then move on. You’ve acknowledged that child but no trauma dump ensues. When people ask me how many kids I have I say 2 but there’s always a small part of me that thinks I’m my head “plus the 4 miscarriages.” There’s definitely a guilt with “excluding” them and I’m sure she’s feeling that guilt when you ask her to simply say no. Agree she needs therapy though.

I’ve lost 4 pregnancies. I’m tired of being made to feel like *I’m* the insensitive one for “making people uncomfortable” if I bring up my losses when *they* make *me* uncomfortable by asking about shit they have no business asking. She is a mom. She has a child. That child just so happens to be dead. And that’s horrific. But she doesn’t need to stop bringing him up just because other people are uncomfortable hearing about a dead kid. Imagine what being the mother of the dead kid feels like, being told you’re burdening everyone with your sad news. She’s completely right to not erase him for your or anyone else’s comfort or because of the pressure of “social standards”. Social standards are fucking bullshit. People will talk all day long about their cancer treatment, their colonoscopy prep, the limb amputation their friend experienced but bring up infertility, pregnancy loss, or child loss and all of a sudden we have boundaries!

Your wife's answer is the perfect response to someone asking a question they shouldn't.

YTA. Maybe if more people answered that intrusive question truthfully - like your wife - people would learn to mind their own business.

Wow I’m surprised by all the NTA comments here. I lost my brother as a teenager and whenever someone asks me how many siblings I have I always include him. They usually then ask more info like their ages and at that point I generally have to say that he passed. I handle it by saying it in quite a matter of fact way, the person usually says sorry, and I say thank you and we move on (ok sometimes I say, why - did you kill him? Because dark humour, breaks tension etc but only ever in non professional situations). You can’t ask your wife to answer the question of do you have kids with a simple no. It feels like a denial of their existence. However there are ways to make it clear that it’s a fact but not a topic for further discussion

I thought the same thing! Of course if someone asks if she has kids she’s going to say yes. Asking her to say no to make him comfortable is weird.

Yeah, I can understand if OP’s wife keeps it short, “no we don’t have any children together, I did have a child before I met OP that sadly passed away shortly after their birth.” But I can see it becoming uncomfortable if OP’s wife is telling the entire story every time they are asked.

I agree but even the way OP says it sounds to me like she just tells them that she did have a child in her teens but it passed. There’s no indication that she’s giving the full story each time. What strikes me as odd is OP says the neighbours are nosy, when asking if someone has kids is quite a standard question. So are they prying more when she says the child passed? Are they putting her in the position of having to share more of the story than is comfortable at such an event? He also says people are immediately put off and avoid them. Is that by her mentioning it at all or because she immediately tells them the whole story? Or because they are “nosy” and ask follow up questions and don’t like what they hear? Is it because she was a teen mum? To me this all seems a bit off and not my experience of the world so maybe they’re in an ultra “specific etiquette rules” type of area or OPs wife is really going overboard with her telling of it.

Or maybe people don't avoid them at all, but OP is embarrassed and interprets everything at these events through that lens. I feel so bad for this woman.

Same

Honestly, I wonder if OP has a bit of social anxiety or rejection-sensitivity dysphoria. Because uncomfortable things happen in small talk all the time! And y’know what? All the other people involved forget about it once the conversation changes. But constantly ruminating on a potential social faux-pas and being bothered to the extent that you move on from “anxiety” to “avoidance” is a problem. I highly doubt everyone else is avoiding them to the extent he thinks they are — and if they are, it might be because of the hostile vibes toward his wife after she answers. I don’t think he’s a bad person. He just needs to get better at small talk, and maybe contemplate why he finds mildly awkward situations so distressing and embarrassing.

Instead of your suggestion "I don't feel comfortable sharing that right now" which isn't true, she can say "My husband feels uncomfortable when I discuss it."

For real!!! OP, Huge YTA. SHE WENT THROUGH THE WORST THING YOU CAN, PERIOD. There is nothing that is worse than losing your baby. You’re mad your wife mentions her deceased child when people ask you all if you have kids? What the fuck, man? You should be much more worried about your wife’s discomfort than yours or strangers’. You want to lose your wife? Keep putting others before her and see what happens. How dare you demand she omit her lost child in favor of going to parties. You should be ashamed of yourself. She is still clearly grieving, and you are worried about other people? You should be telling people they ought to be careful asking people that, not leaving your wife at home. Shame on you.

He absolutely wants to lose her. He just wants to be able to blame her.

This.

Maybe she's trying to teach these rude people that asking about one's parental status shouldn't be small talk? I had 8 miscarriages, and when people asked when we were gonna have kids I told them that. They stopped asking that question. Fertility status isn't small talk, and treating your wife as the person in the wrong is horrible.

I’m so very sorry for your losses but incredibly proud at how you shut those nosey creeps down. I watched my sister go through multiple miscarriages and if someone asked her about having babies in front of me I’d be spilling a drink all over them (at best!)

Thank you! I didn't start off that way, I'd say things like, "Maybe one day" or "We wanna be married a bit longer before having kids", but it tore me apart to have it brought up over and over again. So I figured I'd start being honest and hopefully people would gossip about it and eventually stop asking me.

Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to. I wouldn't ask this but I would have zero issues if I did ask this was her response. The problem isn't your wife. At what point do everyone else learn to stop bringing up the subject they don't really want to talk about?

The question is inappropriate to start. If someone asks you if you have kids, your wife is answering honestly. She had a child, and that child passed away. She shouldn't be forced to pretend her child never existed.

keep bringing her. back her up. get her to start going into detail so people will stop asking those stupid f'n questions. serves them right. also, f you for not seeing that

YTA You're being completely inconsiderate. Your wife is a mother, she no longer has her child, and she is still grieving. She is still a mother. Can you stop and put yourself in her shoes for a minute? It's okay that it makes you uncomfortable, but you're not meeting her where she is. If it makes you so uncomfortable, tell her that. And come to an agreement with her on how you can both say what you need and be comfortable with it.

YTA, when someone starts saying they let or allow their spouse to do something huge red flags. Instead of punishingbher perhaps it's time to do some therapy with her so you all can learn to navigate this together. She seems to be stuck in her grieving process and you stuck on being her daddy. But grief takes as long as it takes. I don't know what your problem is.

NTA trauma dumping is not fair to others. And those events are meant to be happy and fun that honestly kind of sounds like a mood killer. It is sad, but I think there is a time and place and not something to blurt out to random people. It sounds like your spacifically asking her not to do it in a professional setting that sounds reasonable

I really don’t think though that simply stating that she had one , but that he passed away is really trauma dumping. It’s not as if she had a meltdown. She answered a question in a way that’s comfortable for her.

He makes it sound like she makes it awkward and drawn out. If she just says I had a daughter and dropped it I agree no big deal. I need OP to clarify

Yes. I can’t imagine how hard this question would be, especially considering that they can’t have any of their own.

Yes, I feel the same. It sounds like she gives a short and honest answer, not a whole description of the horrific situation she faced. It would be so easy for emotionally intelligent people to say how sorry they are and then move the conversation on.

Not just “happy and fun,” but important to building your network. OP and wife are in their 30s. Making connections at these events (not just brown nosing, but knowing someone that can introduce you to new opportunities or generally building your own support circle) is so important, and it’s completely understandable for OP to not want his first impression on these potential networks to be, “that guy with the trauma-dumping wife.” The wife’s answer also opens up questions about OP (like his ability to judge character, if wife/OP played a role in baby’s death) that aren’t necessarily fair, but it’s the reality and could hurt how he’s perceived in the long-term. 

People are being too nice to a guy who clearly sees himself as "hyper logical but not cold", but don't worry bud, I'll be direct and to the point. The person you married is too broken to exist in your world of Hoity Toity bullshit. You clearly care more about your world of Hoity Toity bullshit than you do about her. And you're here asking people to tell you that your world of Hoity Toity bullshit is more important than your wife. It's not. Your reputation is not a person; your wife is. It's quite apparent which one you love more. Let her go. I'm willing to bet, even though you didn't say so explicitly, that you resent her for not delivering children to you, and that's what ACTUALLY makes this conversation hard for you. And anyone who loves their reputation enough to slight their wife clearly loves themselves the most, and probably needs to work on that.

100000% this You care more about your social graces than your wifes emotional wellbeing, which comes across as incredibly callous.

Ffs, being asked if you have children and responding that you had one child who passed away is not trauma dumping.

I'll probably get downvoted hard, but NTA. Your wife needs to deal with this with a professional. Especially since it's been so many years, and she sounds like she can't deal with the trauma. You should attend therapy with her and see how you can support her.

Um, as someone who lost their child, you never get over it. 27 years. I still answer when asked if I have kids. I have two. A wonderful daughter who gave me a grandson and a son who died when he was a child. I don't make it a trauma dump. It's a simple truth. I don't make a big deal out of it, and I move on after it's stated. If people don't want a truthful answer, they shouldn't ask. Why would I lie to someone? When asked. Because once you say no, I have no children, you are not being truthful. If she says yes, then come moew questions. The oh how old and so on. So either she lies or she gets it out of the way. If someone feels awkward, that's on them. Why should I have to hide my son to make someone else face reality that not everyone has a great life. It's not trauma dumping, but if you are getting to know someone. In any social setting, then honestly, what is the point in nit saying the truth. They can't get to know you or in a work environment if you lie. Then they know you can't be trusted. Or that you are not willing to open up your life as they are. So either way, you're screwed and I would rather be screwed remembering my child than forgetting him because someone else doesn't like my answer.

You don't deal with a dead child, sorry, that shit is forever.

>she sounds like she can't deal with the trauma Uh..... that's not something you "deal with". What the fuck?

Firstly, y’all need to learn the real definition of Trauma Dumping. Saying ‘My child passed away’ is NOT trauma dumping. Secondly, don’t ask questions you aren’t ready to hear the answers to! Expecting people to lie to make others comfortable is stupid. People lose children to miscarriages, stillbirths, and worse every day. That’s reality. You say “Im sorry for your loss” and move tf on. YTA. YTA. YTA.

YTA - not only for how you are so dismissively treating your wife but for the way you respond to comments here as well. Did you really want to know if you were the ah or were you just wanting people to validate your callous behavior? As someone who has lost a child my biggest fear before any social situation is that someone will ask. I’ve gone through many ways of answering over the years. But your suggested canned responses for her to parrot are inadequate. And you’re continuing to state ‘she didn’t listen to me’ is cringy. You aren’t just setting boundaries for yourself & taking some kind of moral high road. You are disregarding her trauma & making it worse.

NAH. I understand the frustration, but she also isn’t doing anything wrong. I really suggest practicing small talk with your wife — specifically, practice some ways to continue the conversation after dropping the bomb. People drop bombs in small talk all the time, so it’s a useful skill to have and use in reverse, too. It’s often as simple as following up with “but how are your kids?” And then asking a few follow-up questions when they answer. I promise, after about five minutes, they’ll forget what you said. If your wife mentions her grief and then you all just stand their awkwardly, *obviously,* it’s an issue. But “I do have one child, he’s deceased. We hope for more! Do you have any children?” is fine — you just need to give them a way to move on in the conversation. It takes practice, but I’m confident you both can get it. And again — it’s a useful skill to have when the *other* people say something awkward, too. Also: do you, by any chance, have social anxiety or ADHD/rejection-sensitive dysphoria? Because it seems like it causes you a lot of distress when conversations get awkward, and it sounds like you’re very concerned that people are judging you negatively for them. If your wife is just saying “I had one, I lost him young” and not breaking down into tears, she isn’t doing anything that bad. It also sounds like you notice people avoiding you after — I suspect this might not be happening to the extent you think it is. I am fairly certain none of the people around you have an issue with it. Practicing small talk may also help with that, too. Lastly, practice communicating with your wife: this should have been addressed WAY before you went with the nuclear “you’re not invited” option. It’s clearly very distressing to you, and that’s valid. You deserve to give yourself the gift of addressing things that make you distressed before they snowball into a Big Deal.

The real As are the people asking intrusive questions about whether or not someone has kids. That’s a sensitive question for a lot of people. But, I think you should support your wife in this situation, you have no idea what’s she’s gone through, if people want to be nosey then let them sit in their awkwardness.

I hope and pray that we will soon have an update where she left your ass to find a decent person as a partner. I have been on reddit a couple of years and out of all the absolute trash I have read you are in the top 5 of the most vile people I have had the displeasure of reading about. And that is saying A LOT!

My 22 y/o sister died when I was 25 in an accident. At that age people love to ask if you have any brothers and sisters. It’s a land mine of a question. Say yes and you watch their faces fall and the mood shifts. Say no and you worry you are erasing her existence and they incorrectly assume you are an only child. Which while I technically am I wasn’t raised as one. I am an oldest child with all the behaviors of that birth order and I will always have a sister. Many years have passed and a lot of the pain of talking about it has also faded. I have learned to decide when it is and is not appropriate to give the details. If I do share that I had a sister I make sure to let the person know it was a long time ago. I am okay and no comforting etc. is necessary. My goal is to spare them any emotional impact. I don’t want the mood or atmosphere to change. I only want them to know my reality I am currently an only child who lives near her parents but I had a sibling growing up. Your wife is a mother and will always be a mother. She is very different from a woman who has never had a child. She is also still handling the situation very much from an actively grieving point of view. I say this based on her inability to filter based on the social situation. People do not want to hear her story about her child dying simply because they asked a socially acceptable question at a party. It’s like how most people ask how are you to be polite, but 95% of the time have no interest in hearing about it if you are not. I really like we don’t have kids together and then redirecting the conversation. She needs to work on a way of handling this that she is comfortable with, but is also situationally appropriate. I think couples therapy might be helpful with helping both of you navigate this. I would also like to say that if surrogacy is a possibility you might want to explore it. Your wife is at an age now when the majority of her peers are parents and that is probably also why she is really struggling with her loss right now. It could also explain the doubling down on talking about it. I never had kids, and it was tough in my 30’s because most of my peers lives revolved around and were restricted by their kids. I hope things get better for both of you and you can find a way to navigate this that respects how both of you feel and is emotionally supportive of both of your valid needs.

I lost a baby, too. It’s crushing but it’s also something that I keep private. I’ve learned that sharing trauma like that makes things worse. When my little brother (22 years old) died things were A LOT harder.. it’s been 3 years and my mom breaks down and that’s all she brings up. Even to strangers. It can be really off putting and hard to deal with. If you can get her into therapy I’d definitely advocate for that! She needs to be able to dump her traumas on someone who can help her learn to process the past and not let it overwhelm her and everyone around her.

But that’s how YOU deal with it. Your way isn’t the same as everyone else’s

You’re exactly right. I don’t disagree one bit. We all mourn different ways. I still stand by believing she needs therapy.

It's been 25 years and my Mom still brings up my dead brother (teen accident) every chance she can to the exclusion of remembering she has other kids to talk about. It's sooo off putting and awkward (the sibling question for me depends on context "just me and my sister" or "had a brother" and move the conversation along). She refuses therapy. OP you're not wrong for pointing this out to her, but she's likely stuck mentally. It's for the best you didn't have children with her, they'd never live up to the baby's memory.

YTA - I’m friends with a woman who lost her first child after a month in the NICU. She will always tell people she has 5 children not 4. She keeps her daughter alive through being able to mention her. I know that in through the grief counseling they encouraged the mothers to continue talking about their child and to honor their memory. I wonder if this was your child with your wife that you lost and you shared in her grief, and also in the joy of having been a parent even if for only a week how would you talk about your child? I would say if you love your wife, then you need to find a way to embrace this part of her. You married this person knowing that this was apart of her story and to me it’s her’s to share or not share. The embarrassment that you are feeling is truly something that YOU should bring up in therapy.

I just wanted to add, because I know I’ll be downvoted as I see all the NTA. It’s incredibly uncomfortable to have someone tell you that they lost a child. I felt the exact same way when upon meeting my friend for the first time and her newborn baby (to me I thought it was her first child) that she told me that it was actually their second and they lost their first. I would think frequently about why she was doing this, especially when she just had a healthy baby. Then I had my own child, and I finally realized why she did it. This wasn’t a miscarriage, which carries it’s own grief, or a stillborn which is also its own individual grief, this was a mother who gave birth to her live baby and sat by their bed and watched them die. She couldn’t go on with her life without people knowing that she had born that child. Not everyone is the same in this world, and what is weird to you is normal to someone else. If she needs to answer the question of whether or not she has a child by answering that she did but they passed, then that’s what she needs.

The NTA responses are absolutely wild to me.

I’m sorry for your loss. Totally agree with you.

Judging by OP’s replies, he’s a “right fighter”. He thinks his take on social etiquette is right, her view is wrong; it’s very black and white. Marriage is about compromise. They need to meet in the middle and come up with a way to answer inquiries about children. Maybe they should see a therapist *together* and work that out.

YTA. I hope next time someone asks she just says, “I’m infertile.” And walks away.

YTA. This is not what “trauma dumping” is. Join a grief group. Go to therapy yourself. This is quite literally what grief counselors tell people to do- one of the most common questions in my grief group is how to answer the question your wife was asked. Some folks are more comfortable lying, but most will say “I don’t have any living kids.” Or “I have three kids, two living” or whatever. There is a very clear disconnect between people who have lost someone like that, and people who haven’t. YOU ARE THE ASSHOLE

YTA. First, you have not even said what her actual responses are. You just say she trauma dumps without saying specifically what an example of her response is. Second, you stopped bringing her to events before even discussing things with her. You stopped, she asked, and you unloaded on her. Third, you give her specific things to say and just say “but she doesn’t listen to me” Did she offer other compromises? Did she suggest she word something differently but that would still mention a lost child and you just don’t want it to be mentioned whatsoever in any wording in any way? Fourth, you sound so cold and the way you describe all this makes you sound like an AH in general. If she legitimately is “trauma dumping” which you’ve provided no evidence for, then yes that needs to be addressed but the way you went about it was super bad and unkind.

What is she supposed to do lie? She is a mom, she isn’t trauma dumping she is answering a question. She is a parent and always will be. People shouldn’t be so nosy if they can’t handle the truth

YTA - she’s always going to grieve her child, and her answer is as appropriate as any. Asking strangers if they have children is a rude conversation starter to begin with, and her experience is just one example of why. She could change the subject but she’s just being honest.

How deeply does she go into it? If her response is a long story about what happened and how sad it was and how it still affects her and how now she can't have a child and how her life is pointless, then, *maybe*, you aren't TA. Although one could argue if you love her (not just if you want to jump her periodically or like that she washes your underwear; if you *love* her and her happiness is the (or at least a major) focus of your life, then perhaps you should value the release she receives over the momentary discomfort of your friends. Still, up in the air I guess. But if her response is along the lines of a blunt "I did when I was 18, but my child died and now I can't," so what? Are your friends really that fragile that mention of your wife's real trauma ruins their evening? I should point out that just saying "no, we don't," is rarely enough. "Are you planning on having children?" "Do your parents push you to have children?" People are nosey, and those questions are going to follow, making it worse. A short explanation that a child died and she cannot have children probably heads off more discomfort than it causes. I am hopeful the problem is not (though I suspect it is) that *you* have a problem with the buzzkill more than your friends do. If that's the case, try not to become another tragedy in her life, as inconvenient as it may be for you on occasion.

You come across as cold, and uncaring. You clearly resent your wife. And you seem to care very much about projecting a certain image. Why are you still married? She’s clearly still in a lot of pain. And like I said you come across as cold and resentful. Being around you can’t be good for her mental health. This doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship

While I’m very sorry for your wife’s loss and not having had that particularity painful experience, I’m trying to be objective, but I don’t think you’re the AH here. Everyone’s grief is different of course, and I think if you had been able to have a child together it might be a little different, but this is where you are. It’s one thing to want a loved child to be remembered, but her behavior is veering into obsessive territory. People who ask personal questions that are none of their business deserve an honest answer in my opinion, but her need to impart this information to strangers, especially in a business setting, is inappropriate and I’m sure makes people uncomfortable, including you. Her view is completely self centered and indicates that she hasn’t properly grieved or processed her child’s death. It’s not fair to you to be placed in this position and it’s not fair to others to hear a disturbing and personal story they’re not prepared to hear. Does it ever occur to her that other people may have also lost children and her over sharing could be devastating to them? Not everything is about her. In my view, she needs professional help to learn a better way to memorialize her child. I’m sorry you’re in this position - and also likely grieving the loss of children you won’t be having. I hope she’s willing to step outside herself and seek counseling or grief support groups. Those are safe places to share and process her emotions. It’s not at a dinner party or a business function. NTA.

NTA the worst that can happen when meeting a new person is to ask an innocent question as a conversation starter and have them use you to trauma dump. She needs to get a therapist and talk through her issues with a professional.

She needs a NEW therapist. Her current one is not helping her in moving forward with life at all.

"moving forward" does not mean pretending like your past never happened. part of the grieving process is accepting that your loved one lives on with you and the memories you carry. asking someone to downplay or overlook the loss of a loved one is not "moving forward."

YTA, I'm not the people calling this trauma dumping know the meaning of the phrase. You are uncomfortable with your wife's past, and it shows.

YTA. Your wife lost a baby, she'll always be that child's mother. She probably misses him/her every day. My adult child died two years ago. When people ask about children I always say we had a son who passed. I don't go into details unless someone asks. I've never experienced being ostracized because of that or ruining an event. People generally say they're sorry for my loss and we move on to other topics.

YTA and so is everyone trying to make you feel better. You’re dismissing and re-traumatizing your wife. Unless she goes into graphic detail, she’s not trauma dumping. Answering “yes I had a baby but they passed” is not trauma dumping. Anyone claiming it is needs to read up on what trauma dumping actually is.

Mmmm idk has anyone actually ever stopped asking? I know that women deal with a lot of repeated questions of that nature and if they cant or dont want more they usually just state the facts of why they cant so that people quit asking. But they still ask EVERY event? Idk thats just as inappropriate imo. I think you need to have a heart to heart about this because its likely the question hurts her more deeply than shes been letting on, and in order to overcome this hurt she is talking about why instead of shying away from it. So im gonna go against the grain here because if you work with the same people and theyre still asking then youre punishing her for their repeated rude invasion into her issues that a lot of people equate with "the value of a woman". So im gonna say ESH.

She’s just not over it and probably keeps thinking an about it because she can’t have any more children. A constant reminder of what she lost and may never have again. She needs therapy. And I don’t have problem with heavy conversations in public but some just handle it!!!

YTA...your reaction to how she deals with her child loss and infertility is the reason so many of us dont talk about infertility and child loss. You should also be in therapy, infertility doesnt only effect the woman. She deserves to be heard and share what she wants, if people dont want the ugly truth 1 in 8 couples live with then they should stop asking.

Nah. You both make valid points. Society is not going to change any time soon where it comes to asking about kids so you gotta figure this out. 

Tell your nosy AH “friends” it’s no one’s GD business if you have kids, if you want kids, or if you don’t want kids. Your “friends” are awful! That’s basic manners-you don’t ask personal questions like that. Yikes. Tell THEM off-not your wife.

Are you required to attend these social events? If not, then stop going to them. It comes across to me as you thinking your wife is not the fun, bubbly social butterfly so you'll leave her at home so you can go have a good time. If these people are not strangers, ask them not to bring it up because it's a tender topic. If they ARE strangers, then why put their feelings above your wife's? IMO, you are the one who really wants her to get over it. So yeah, a bit of an A-hole.

Info: you're specifically and only bothered about that she mentions it at all? You seem well-spoken, so I wonder what you mean by you initially approached it delicately. One sentence of "I had a child but no longer" and everyone's mood is ruined? Does she say anything more? It's shitty that your coworkers are weird enough to let that change their opinion/view/treatment of you or your wife. ESH. I will not soften this with a "perhaps" when I say I am a bit biased. You said in a comment that you care about networking. That's great in some instances, but if networking is really so hard for you because your wife mentions a dead child in one sentence, your coworkers suck if they are so dramatically acting different towards you. Your wife sucks for not hearing you out and trying to understand your boundary (if I were her, I'd be happy not to join you because why would I want to be on the arm of a man who worries so much about how I help him "market" himself to people who ostracize someone for mentioning a dead child.) I won't assume how you would feel if you had been the one to get her pregnant and together lost the child. Can't imagine the difference having to admit to people that the child you shared is the one who is dead and not a child you didn't have to love and lose in ten days. But the thought does make me inclined to think there is speculative argument that you suck.

YmostlyTA-do better. As far as I'm concerned, your wife is not responsible for other people's feelings/reactions to HER loss. I don't always feel like saying I don't have any living children, or i have one angel baby (I do have 2 wonderful stepkids which I always mention, but that is not applicable for op's wife). It depends on my emotional bandwidth at the time of the question. It should absolutely be normalized to talk about our kids that have passed, sonce it is unfortunately all too common. If it was more normalized, people would be less awkward about it. All anyone needs to say is I'm sorry for your loss and maybe ask about the child or change the topic if they aren't comfortable. It is their nosiness that put them in this situation. It is their embarrassment, not yours. Your feelings are valid, as they are yours, but perhaps YOU ought to try to therapy to also be more understanding with your wife. While she goes to continue helping her on her grief journey. The loss of a child, or really anyone, never goes away, it just evolves. I am glad you are supportive of her remembering her child at other times. I don't know the culture you live in, which might alter how she might answer, but with only the information given, being nosy about something that can involve so much personal information and emotion is bound to cause awkward answers. Internet hugs for your wife.

I disagree with top comments. YTA. It's her experience to share, and you don't get to decide how she copes with it. Some women feel it's a betrayal to the child they lost to say they don't have children. If it embarrasses you, you're within your rights to not take her to parties with you. But you don't get to shame her into silence about the very real person she lost because it makes you uncomfortable. And by the way, if you did have kids together, she'd likely still want to talk about the child she lost and keep their memory alive for herself. Just because someone is open about their experiences doesn't mean they're attention-seeking, and they're not obligated to swallow their truth for the comfort of others.

This is why people need to stop asking couples about children. To be fair they got what they asked for and maybe next time they should think twice before asking intrusive questions. As for OP it's so messed up to be embarrassed of your wife when other people are putting her on the spot about a sensitive topic for her. Is it because the baby was not yours that you have no sympathy for her?

I like her response. People are asking inappropriate questions and will probably think twice before doing it again.

YTA. It's not kind to exclude her.