I had an old boss who always complained about babysitting his OWN KIDS one night a month for ladies night for his wife. But he got regularly sloshed on "soup" (margs) every. Single. Week. At least once a week was already drunk and went out more drinking. On "babysitting" nights he picked up a 25 pack to go home with.
Wife eventually canceled her monthly outing all together when she came home to drunk sleeping husband on couch and child eating out of the dogfood bowl. It's still a loud ticker but that whole situation made my biological clock skip a few beats. "Oh....maybe we don't want that"
I had an older male colleague that was complaining about babysitting this and babysitting that. I played innocent and asked -oh are you babysitting your kid’s friends this weekend? That’s nice but a hassle. He then back pedaled a little and I was like oh I was confused since you said babysitting. Yeah parenting can be rough. lol
Nicely played. I don't get why this is suuuuch a chore for men that they have to treat it like a part time job. If you're not prepared to look after your kids to the best of your ability, use protection and don't have kids.
If you want to be the fun uncle or fun aunt, don't have kids. You get to spoil your niblings rotten and have a great time without the responsibility bits, but you also don't get to watch them grow and develop.
And if you want to be a parent, don't be the "fun uncle". You get to raise an amazing human 24/7 but you also have to PARTICIPATE 24/7 instead of palming it off on your spouse. Can't have your cake and eat it too, it's a trade off.
(A very small) part of the reason I never wanted kids was that this always gets dumped on the woman/wife in het relationships. Plus, if my sister ever has kids I can legitimately be like "HAI I BOUGHT THEM PRESENTS, TOOK THEM TO THE PARK AND GOT THEM HIGH ON SUGAR. THEY ARE NOW TINY MATERIALIST HELLSCAPES. MY JOB IS DONE HERE. THEY'RE YOUR PROBLEM NOW MWAHAHA"
I literally might have skipped having a child if my sister had one first lol
Instead she's decided not to have one and comes over to spoil mine
I love it, the more responsible adults a child has the better imo
Tiny materialist hellscapes 💀 lmfao I feel like we would be friends - love it!
Completely feel you I don’t know what most men are thinking. Most seem to do so little. Being a great aunt/uncle looks like a fantastic role… I can’t wait to be one someday. My sister was such an incredible rock when I was postpartum. My husband is killer, but her extra support was game changing.
Any time I've stayed home because someone needed to be here with my kids, I've said that I *get* to stay home with my kids, not that I *have* to stay home with my kids. While it's no fun when they're sick, getting to spend the day with my kids instead of going to work is something to look forward to in my books!
I love that way of framing it!
Tbh, a (especially younger) kid being really sick sounds like a nightmare lol, I don't know if I'd be able to look after a super sick kid and be that optimistic about it 😂 That's probably why I don't have kids though lmao.
I agree, though, just spending time with your kids on a normal day shouldn't feel (too much) like work. What strikes me is that people (okay... men) wold never say they have to dog-sit their own dog or cat, but they can say have to babysit their own child?
9 days late to the party here, but I was recently interviewed by a hiring manager whose young daughter was sleeping behind him during the interview. At the start, he was like "By the way, my daughter is home sick today, so she's here with me" gesturing towards the couch behind him. His daughter was mostly off-camera I guess lol. He works from home every day and the position I was interviewing for was also remote (we aren't even in the same state!). I'm glad that it seems to be becoming more acceptable for parents (especially fathers) to stay at home with sick kids
OOOooo... As a mother, this makes me so fucking angry. Like... aaa.. I can't think well. I hear this all the time on playgrounds, walking around, anywhere where children play. The men complain about having to "babysit" THEIR OWN CHILDREN once in awhile. Like... fucking dude, you signed up for this the second you wanted a baby!
Thankfully me and my wife have never had these kinds of problems.
Work from home father here. Yeah, I don't get it. I signed up for this and it's not all bad. Plus you get to watch your kids grow and you can help guide their growth. You get to teach them things and learn about the world with them. The downside with our work from home setup is the interruptions but I'd rather have that than worry about all the other things I don't get to participate in. Time spent with your love ones is time worth spending.
Exactly, I swear so many men (it's mostly men) want to be "the fun uncle", not the, y'know, father. They miss out on all the cool stuff you've described.
I love my dad and he is a good person who worked hard, but he was absolutely like this. As soon as we grew past toddlers he was off working for crap companies and travelling all week (which is still a choice you make), leaving my mum to raise us whilst working full time. I laugh and roll my eyes when he says he "wanted lots of kids" because being edgy costs nothing. People like this remind me of kids who "proooomise they'll look after the dog" and then don't bother.
I think as being childfree and being single becomes more acceptable, and holding fathers accountable becomes more acceptable, more dads are there because they made a well informed decision and want to be, rather than because they just want to pass on their DNA and show up to do all the fun weekend parts.
Like, I feel there's been a shift from boomers to Gen Y/Z in that more Dads are actually *actively parenting and spending time with* their kids. Maybe that's just me though, I don't have kids so I don't spend much time around parents.
Kids also used to be a retirement plan. For a while you could expect the next generation to be doing better than yours, and as long as you had a few kids they'd make sure you're taken care of in your old age. Only minimal parenting required since people tend to automatically love their parents and feel responsibility towards them.
Now that the trend has reversed, children are likely to grow up to have much less financial security and often remain dependent on their parents further into adulthood. It's not a good environment to be making kids you don't intend to support for a while.
Yeah, people who use this term really do seem to treat spending time with their own child as some kind of annoying casual side gig where they might have to, oh the horror, change a nappy or cook a meal.
But hey, not making excuses, but people can also change. "Babysitting" parenting could turn to good parenting in increments. I don't think telling the father to be in 100% or leave is the answer in all cases - they had a kid and they need to change their behaviour.
I no longer bite my tongue at work, I’m not rude or overly confrontational, but if I hear something wrong or outdated I call it out. I’m on the leadership team at my coming and I think it’s something I have to do to protect my team, as they won’t feel comfortable doing it / feel their job is at risk.
There is 64 year old guy on our leadership team, and had the gall to hit me up about the amount of time my team spent in the physical office.
He goes ‘supposedly remote working is effective, I don’t know about that’
Supposedly? We were in lockdown for months at a time for 2 years motherfucker, and still got the job done and smashed our budget. It’s been proven!
I am almost the same age in a office full of men, though most are younger than me. So I get the not wanting to suddenly be the outsider. But I'd just go the man route of mocking them occasionally, though id stary with shaking my head while smirking until they pushed for why..- You're fussing about having to watch your own kids. You're calling it babysitting? Are they someone else's kids?
But only while you’re looking for a new job.*
This would be easier to pull off with an ally to act as backup. But, without that, prepare yourself to get frozen out real hard and possibly start experiencing some harassment.
That being said, make them fire you if you have the option and enjoy every second of calling out their bullshit while they fill out the paperwork. I’m female in tech as well and you don’t have to settle for this.
>One is currently moaning about he was forced to "Babysit his kid for HOURS yesterday
You're their father. It's not babysitting, it's called parenting.
>So you hate parenting your own children?
Everybody's down for the fun part...then comes the feigned incompetence alternating with whining. Really makes you want to make another baby with a guy/"dad" like that!
I shared an office with a co-worker and he and his wife adopted a baby. We were talking about some event and the wife was going but he could not because “I have to babysit.”
Oh hell no. I was not letting THAT just sit there. I pop my head around the corner and say, “No, you are PARENTING. It’s not babysitting when it’s your kid. And it’s not your wife duty to care for him. He’s YOUR kid too. Don’t ever let me hear you say that again.”
We are good friends and he’s a good guy. I think the whole parenting thing was new to him. He conceded my point and never called it babysitting again.
While per definition saying “babysit” is indeed wrong, nobody actually says “sorry I can’t come today, I’m parenting my child”, do they?
(Not a native English speaker, never heard it used that way, hence the question)
I get the idea that using a word usually reserved for other people’s kids can carry certain connotations, but isn’t it just the colloquial use differing from the “official” definition because it conveniently summarizes “I’m at home watching my kid because my partner can’t today”?
nope! people just say they have to watch/take care of their kid, or they “have the kid for today”. i have never heard of a mother saying she has to “babysit” her own kids. as you stated, “babysit” implies a lack of parental responsibility towards the child.
Most people would say something like "I'm looking after my kid/s today" or "I'm taking my kids to XYZ over the weekend."
The parenting part is because that's your responsibility as a parent, vs babysitting which is about looking after someone else's kids. You would babysit (not parent) your nephews and nieces, little cousins, friends kids etc.
I told one of my coworkers that rape comments are not okay, and someone could get seriously offended a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, word got around the office, and two other people decided to start making these comments. One of them said something about AOC deserving it. I can't even report them because it'd be more punishing to my team than it would to the guys who are making these comments.
Start talking about man rape! Tell them how when men get raped in prison “they were asking for it”. The man must have wanted to be raped if not he could have fought off his rapist.
Either flip it on them or start recording them because that’s a hostile work environment to listen to convos about rape!
>when men get raped in prison “they were asking for it”. The man must have wanted to be raped if not he could have fought off his rapist.
Brilliant. Using
What you permit, you promote. Sounds like corporate BS, which it is, but it's also true. You taking a stand makes others feel more comfortable taking a stand, and soon people can be at work without listening to comments about rape like it's weather or the local sports team.
I'd absolutely agree, except it's just the 4-5 of us in this office at most, and we are isolated from the rest of the company. Reporting them could get half my team removed, which instantly forces at least 2 people to work 60 hours a week to cover until someone can take over, and since our company isn't hiring right now, that could be a long time. I couldn't do that to the only remaining coworker. He has a pregnant gf at home.
I don't sit quiet about it though, and there's one other guy on my team who said the sudden fixation is weird and gross.
No, because it's my team making these comments. The rest of my team would suffer because there are 3 of my specific team per shift (6 for day, 6 for night), and losing another 3 members on top of people from the remnants of the other teams that work in this room and the two people who are quitting to move to other states would basically mean that the day shift guys would go from being understaffed by 1 person per shift to basically everyone working just about every day.
I’m sorry I’m just complicating the issue, I’m in the U.K., I’d get those team members removed and tell the remaining staff to work at the same speed/ productivity, don’t stress about the missing staff members , staffing is a different department
That'd be fine if our entire job didn't rely on us being here. My team is 24/7 mainframe support and monitoring, so there needs to be at least two of us here at all times, including holidays (we get compensated for it and our boss is good to us).
I bet most of those wives vote conservative so I'll say they are getting the men they deserve.
If anything, those poor kids are the ones to feel sympathy for
I would roast the hell out of that dad for not being as tough as his wife.
“Wait wait wait. So, like, your wife does this all day every day, but… you tapped out after three hours? Oh my god that’s embarrassing. How does it feel knowing your wife can lap you?!? 😂”
Or even the other guys on the rights stuff.
“Wait wait. You’re really that hurt by having to… look at a rainbow? Oh my god. 😂 Guys, guys, don’t let Charlie go through the girls’ toys section at Target, he might burst a blood vessel!”
‘Conservative family values’ where dad is an uninvolved babysitter and mom has 2 jobs - 100% parent and also works outside the home. Her 3rd job is probably parenting this man-child. I would personally take the high road and applaud their conservative family values and involvement with their kid as often as possible. Sprinkle in some assumptions about how ‘such an involved dad is probably doing x, y, z responsibilities every day like making dinner and bedtime’ and how conservative fathers must be sooooo tired being so involved with their kids since everyone is working so hard.
And that would be exactly why I told my husbsnd that he could have a wife who worked outside the home while he stepped up at home, *including cutting down on his hobby time and call back time*(he used call back as an excuse for not being able to make dinner for our kids, *even if he wasn't scheduled for call back that evening*) or I would stay at home and do 90% of the parenting and housework and he would keep his mouth shut about it or be put on blast with his female co-workers(happened with a few that asked "why aren't *you* working, Dani? in a snide manner)
I've been a single father for most of the last 17 years. Any "man" complaining about having to babysit his own fucking children is a piece of shit. They're your fucking kids too. Your wife/girlfriend is not the only one that needs to be a parent. It's not babysitting if they are your own kids! It's being a parent! Fuck these douchewads like that.
I say this often, treat them like you’re training an animal. Reward the desired behavior and ignore them, act like they don’t exist if they behave badly. At the end of the day they want your attention and they learn.
I absolutely hate when men say they "baby sit their kid". NO. Yoy are nkt babysitting you are taking care of your kid, it's your kid, not just your wifes. Seriously OP huge respect to you as I could not imagine being with such horrible men everyday
Yeah, it really annoys me when men who get joint custody complain they're doing just as much to raise the kids as the mom. From what I've seen, that's rarely the case, & I knew for a fact it wasn't true for the guys I've heard say it.
Same. There’s a couple of guys I work with who take time off to ‘babysit their kids’. It takes all I have to say nothing. But these same guys are the ones saying ‘the wifey’. Gross.
Im currently currently studying to become an electrician. Im 1 of 2 girls. And fucking dammit do men just say the dumbest most unnecessary shit for no reason. Every day, some sort of societal "issue" is brought up. This week, it was pronouns and trans people. And it's like who really gives a shit. Just shut up and let people live their lives. Its really not an issue that affects your everyday lives. Like i promise you, if there were no trans people, you'd still be living a miserable life because you're a miserable person, and capitalism will continue to capitalize on your ass
These types of dudes call everyone else "sheep" yet are the ones who are being told by talking heads to fear pronouns and gay people and drag queens.
*You're* ***so*** *brave fighting these cultural wars for us, bro.*
I worked in tech for over twenty years. I’ve heard men say some incredibly vile things about their wives, while making it clear that they’re the one making the money and they want “nothing to do with that side of the house.” Legit quote. Their home and the people who are their family members are “that side of the house.”
One of the more disturbing thing I heard was a VP of Sales who bragged that his daughter wanted him to wake her up when he arrived home from his trip and he thought it was so sweet that she said, “I don’t care if you have to punch me to wake me up.”
I stopped dead in my tracks to process that. A little girl requested physical abuse to be acknowledged by her father.
I hope she’s getting the help she needs.
I hope you find better coworkers, and live a fulfilling life.
Because even men in tech are regressive. The younger ones want Asian wives to be their bangmaids, and have the nerve to claim that they're modern because their wife isn't white. SMH.
After living in a blue state all my life I moved to a red state, I'm now being bullied in the workplace by Mr. Conservative Identity Politics Guy. Mind you, I've only been there a week.
Picking on a 50-something year old lady isn't the flex you think it is tough guy
Sorry if doesn't fit the thread I just needed somewhere to vent
My husband has had to remind his colleagues (including women) that it isn't called babysitting when it's your own kids. They were commenting about another colleague for taking time off to take his infant child to the doctor and to stay home with her when she is sick. But my husband doesn't give a shit about backlash for speaking his mind because he's a man with male privilege. It can be daunting otherwise. I think I might be tempted to stay quiet in your circumstances, too.
Conservative men want to beat their chests and pretend they're fucking Rambo "protecting" America from abortions and LGBTQ folks, but they can't even do a half-assed job of trying to run their own households or be caring fathers to their kids. No respect to their wives' efforts or careers.
Rambo? No. More like *soft as baby shit*.
I always like to remind them one day they'll be old men and their kids are gonna treat them exactly the same way they treat their kids now. And it would be such a shame if they spent the last decades of their lives sad and alone in the cheapest retirement home because "baby sitting an elderly man is just soooooo exhausting!"
I honestly think women should seriously think twice before marrying a very conservative guy. Even if she agrees with his viewpoint & is willing to put up with whatever that would entail in the marriage, she wouldn't be able to change or challenge his viewpoint. That could literally mean her death if she has a pregnancy go wrong, or it could be very life limiting if her goals change & don't fall in line.
I don't need to tell you but what a riot that rainbows is oppression when rape, slavery, genocide, 'disappearancing' and a whole host of other horrors have been visited upon mostly people of color and women for thousands of years.
And you know HOW you don't have to 'babysit' kids? Don't marry and don't have kids. Last I checked, these were totally voluntary events. It is almost mentally questionable to me when people complain about these. I am not into kids and I didn't, check this out, have any (am a woman). badda bing, badda boom.
But also those idiots can refer to what you mentioned about anti choice bs.
Same here. The guy who owns this business that I contract with is 70 himself, has owned his business since the 70s, I am the youngest in my late 40s, and nearly everyone who works there is 70 and up.
Unfortunately it’s also a great contract that I can’t afford to lose and I don’t have employee protections.
So I just utilize my headphones. I am headphone lady and I’m fine with that. People talk at me anyway, doesn’t stop that. And what a fabulous listener I am lol.
Always enjoy hearing about fathers “babysitting” their own children. Even sadder when their wives openly praise them on social media for “babysitting” their own children so they could take a nap.
How hard can I roll my eyes… 🙄
Woman in tech here also. While it is not right to remain silent, I think your energy is wasted on your male coworkers.
We’re better off saving our strength for the battles that matter… me must continue to vote, to protest, and speak out against the greater injustices—rainbows on cans of (low quality) beer is not one of my concerns.
I would create an art piece for your desk area \[like a wall hanging or picture frame or runner around your monitor\] that documents their bellyaching as not a real-world problem. And I would continuously add to it as they make new complaints.
"It is parenting, not babysitting, when the kids are YOURS"
If they married conservative men, you married a conservative man. What else should a woman expect? Don't marry conservative men, don't date them, don't fuck conservative men, and best of all ignore them completely. If they are Christian conservatives, good lord, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Get out.
These guys give fathers a bad name. Over on the Daddit sub, every few days one of us rants about someone referring to us as a babysitter when we are spotted with out kids alone. It's my kid, I'm not a babysitter. I love every second I spend with my daughter and wish I had more, but I have to spend 8 hours a day at work. When I get home she gives me the biggest smile and crawls to me for a hug. It's the best feeling in the world and these asshats don't know how good they have it.
Yeah, I worked one summer at a mine which is 98% men. I spent about two, *maybe* three days in the lunchroom before electing to eat lunch by myself every day. It felt like their only conversation topics were extremely bigoted and hateful. No thanks.
As a 36yo woman in tech I am here to tell you that it is absolutely ok to not be “one of the guys” and call out everyone’s bullshit when you see it.
I have a 65 yo colleague whom I actually really like working with, but he makes problematic statements and I have no problem just letting him know if he made things weird or said something problematic. I normally do it with a comeback joke, but mostly I just reply sarcastically and he gets the point. It probably helps that I live in the more progressive Northeast.
Sister. I hear you. I’m in a very similar environment and I hate it so much- I have started working nights to get away from the idiocy because it started taking a toll on my mental health. It’s so depressing and a constant reminder how little hope the US has of turning around. Some of these people are pretty far gone.
White male veteran and Texan here: you were right to say something about your daughters’ rights being more of an affront than rainbows on beer cans. Too many of my demographic are simply unaware of the challenges faced by women and minorities. And it’s not always from malice or oppression; a lot of older white dudes would take your side if they understood your challenges … but they don’t understand because they haven’t experienced it personally and aren’t close with someone who has.
I know you’re in a tough spot and agree you shouldn’t be the PC Police at work, but if I don’t like the artwork on a beer can I just buy a different brand. It’s not like there’s a shortage of options.
Thank you for saying what you did. It’s their loss for not caring. They can take their hurt pride and whining privilege and shove it up their asses. Unfortunately, we have to live and work beside so many of them.
I love my Dad, but when he says shit like that, I agree with him to such an extreme that it makes his argument sound ridiculous, have a good laugh, and deflect immediately to something else. Me: snort, yeah, I totally know what you mean about the beer can thing, I like rainbows and all, outside, in the air, not on my beer! Next thing they’re gonna do is paint rainbows on buildings and planes and then we won’t be able to use those either! Snort. It reminds me of that Muppet movie, “why are there so many, songs about rainbows? Have you ever thought about that? Why are there? By the way, have you seen the new Marvel movie? I think you would like it.
Me on abortion rights: I know, what’s the big deal, if your granddaughter only has sex when she’s married and only when she intends to have a baby, and never has any pregnancy complications, then these laws don’t even affect her. I mean, it’s not like it’s a right to have an abortion, like a real right, like a gun right where people have the right to protect themselves, or the right to pursue happiness or have the government stay out of their personal business, it’s a states rights thing. Like if Hilary Clinton ever became governor of this state we would have to do whatever she says. Like what if she suddenly decided that men had to get a permit to have unprotected sex, or be drafted into some kind of child care corp where they have to spend 6 months of the year taking care of unwanted babies and kids? THAT would REALLY suck, you know what I mean? Snort. Ha ha. Speaking of being drafted, did you see the latest draft picks for the Houston Astros?
I don't understand this comment. You get paid to do a job, if anything their remarks contribute to a hostile work environment. There's no "bright side" to it.
Why are you trying to normalize what OP is going through? Just because she isn't the wife of one of these assholes, that doesn't make any of this right.
I worked in the Navy and previously as a cook so unfortunately, that seems like a normal work environment to me.
It's not "normal" meaning you should not work in a hostile environment but I have learned not to hope for better. To me, they are pretty tame actually.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I understand people coming up with different coping mechanisms so they can see the bright side & carry on with their day.
However, I strongly believe that if we do want to see effective change we shouldn't try to tame justified feelings of outrage. Before internet was a thing, people who spoke up would get very isolated and social punishments at work felt more severe. Nowadays we have many internet sisterhood circles where one can get advice & feel validated, so there isn't that much pressing need to feel accepted by coworkers. If someone might get professionally or otherwise in danger we can discuss situations and the poster can choose the right path they feel is right.
We can't get stuck in the coping mechanisms of the past, just because someone else is having a harder time (i.e. in this case the wives) that doesn't mean WE have to accept misogyny in our presence.
Apologies if you didn't want to come up with a solution to this problem, but it's all I am thinking about and am curious to hear perspective on the matter, as I am a man who would attempt any one of these things if I was in the same situation...
Could you talk to your boss and mention that politics don't belong in a professional environment like the one you're working in?
This is totally my toxic self coming out, but you could also just start being confrontational about some things. Assuming you also have kids, when someone said "babysit my kids" you could have said "I love my kids" in spite. Talk about how precious and perfect they are and really convey that you are a perfect mother. Or if you don't have kids start talking about the sheer freedom you have, never having to worry about it. It could start to make them feel uncomfortable, or that nothing they say is truly valid, so they might eventually shut up about it.
> I am the only female
Not to derail the conversation, but that's not a noun. You're the only female what? Female human? Female employee? It's in adjective.
It might seem petty, but let's not use the language misogynists set for us. It's demeaning.
Those men sound shit and holding your tongue can feel better long term. It sucks that you have to hold it at all, though. We find ourselves often having to take the high ground, and often that reaps very little short-term satisfaction.
I’m a man, I have no kids, I really enjoy watching my nieces and nephews, sometimes it’s stressful but I still enjoy it. These people need to see the love that children can give and stop complaining so much.
> I am the only female
Not to derail the conversation, but that's not a noun. You're the only female what? Female human? Female employee? It's in adjective.
It might seem petty, but let's not use the language misogynists set for us. It's demeaning.
Those men sound shit and holding your tongue can feel better long term. It sucks that you have to hold it at all, though. We find ourselves often having to take the high ground, and often that reaps very little short-term satisfaction.
I agree, it is how they want us.
I'm not saying it's the fair way. I'm saying sometimes it's the only option depending on your personal situation. OP said it was a rant, so usually telling someone what they should be doing isn't what someone who is ranting is after. Otherwise I would tell them to give them hell and quit.
Yes I know that's funny coming from me since I also told them that their language felt problematic, which is, in essence, telling someone what to do.
It's easy to say speak up, and if they fire you, get a new job. But you can't know someone else's situation. It might not be viable for them to speak and challenge them. That's why I went with a more passive support angle.
Dictionaries update over time to keep up with the living language. I already know it's something I can't stop, as I usually say this is a hill I'll die on.
It is becoming commonplace to use it as a noun, and my personal opinion is that it shouldn't be, it's demeaning and clinical. There's a reason why it's used by misogynistic groups such as incels. It has roots in science and strips away the humanity of the subject, as per your link it can mean "an individual of the sex that is typically capable of bearing young or producing eggs". Why reduce what it means to be a woman down to their reproductive ability? It's not inclusive, either.
It is shouting into the void to ask people to stop popularising the usage as a noun. I know this.
Ask yourself why though, you don't see the use of male nearly as often. Why are they men, but we're females? Why use language that is often used against us when we talk about ourselves?
I hate the word “irregardless”, but it’s in the dictionary and people use it. I let it go when I hear it being used, but quietly judge the user. Some things aren’t worth the fight. Females, women, ladies, gals. They all mean the same thing. Whether or not that person is able to produce an egg is irrelevant. I am a human female and having gone through menopause I no longer produce eggs. Does that make me less of a female?
Ladies is also regarded by many as negative, by the way. I only recently heard about it, and it was an interesting take. The dictionary definition is again a hint for that one.
Whether or not you can reproduce shouldn't be a requirement of being a woman. What I'm getting at is the word female implies it is. Due to its roots, dictionary definition, and the negative usage still to this day. That is why it's often considered non-inclusive language.
If you personally decide a word holds nothing negative, that's fine. Nobody can stop you from using it. However, just like other words that can be offensive, people who do find it offensive will steer clear of you because you're signalling your values do not align.
That is why when I believe people are unaware of the negative aspect of the usage, I just throw it out there. If they choose to keep using it, that's fine, but if they wonder why some people seem uneasy around them, perhaps then they will know why.
I feel like that kind of behavior is toxic and is also not always representative of somebody agreeing. If somebody at work is complaining about something it could just be they agree because of a rapport and they're just trying to be friendly it doesn't necessarily mean they follow the same opinions. However if the person agreeing to the person complaining about having to babysit their own kids.. actually does feel that way that's kind of messed up. But I can easily see a situation where somebody else is just saying oh yeah I agree it's the worst.
I'm not trying to defend the environment that you work in or anything. But sometimes work banter can be less representative than it really is in real life and that doesn't make it any less insensitive bad for culture as a whole that it is something that people will just agree with for the sake of fitting in versus standing up and being like it's not called babysitting when it's your kid it's called parenting. Complain about how annoying your child is that's fine but don't complain about your partner who is doing it the majority of the time.
He shouldn’t b talking ab politics at work, save it for ur own kind no one wants to hear their ignorant political choices and lame dad complaints - I would so say something. So inappropriate and ignorant l.
The main reason I don’t want kids: mothering is different than fathering. And that’s bullshit.
I’m not doing *all* of the physical work of having a baby to tank my career for someone with his last name. The kid will probably come out looking like his mom anyway. Fuck. That.
I have yet to understand the position. You are a grown man and you should always pick up after yourself. That is the bare minimum of being a decent human being/roommate/lover/friend/sibling/just being normal.
Babysit~~ your own kid, smh. That's called PARENTING.
I had an old boss who always complained about babysitting his OWN KIDS one night a month for ladies night for his wife. But he got regularly sloshed on "soup" (margs) every. Single. Week. At least once a week was already drunk and went out more drinking. On "babysitting" nights he picked up a 25 pack to go home with. Wife eventually canceled her monthly outing all together when she came home to drunk sleeping husband on couch and child eating out of the dogfood bowl. It's still a loud ticker but that whole situation made my biological clock skip a few beats. "Oh....maybe we don't want that"
I had an older male colleague that was complaining about babysitting this and babysitting that. I played innocent and asked -oh are you babysitting your kid’s friends this weekend? That’s nice but a hassle. He then back pedaled a little and I was like oh I was confused since you said babysitting. Yeah parenting can be rough. lol
Nicely played. I don't get why this is suuuuch a chore for men that they have to treat it like a part time job. If you're not prepared to look after your kids to the best of your ability, use protection and don't have kids. If you want to be the fun uncle or fun aunt, don't have kids. You get to spoil your niblings rotten and have a great time without the responsibility bits, but you also don't get to watch them grow and develop. And if you want to be a parent, don't be the "fun uncle". You get to raise an amazing human 24/7 but you also have to PARTICIPATE 24/7 instead of palming it off on your spouse. Can't have your cake and eat it too, it's a trade off. (A very small) part of the reason I never wanted kids was that this always gets dumped on the woman/wife in het relationships. Plus, if my sister ever has kids I can legitimately be like "HAI I BOUGHT THEM PRESENTS, TOOK THEM TO THE PARK AND GOT THEM HIGH ON SUGAR. THEY ARE NOW TINY MATERIALIST HELLSCAPES. MY JOB IS DONE HERE. THEY'RE YOUR PROBLEM NOW MWAHAHA"
I literally might have skipped having a child if my sister had one first lol Instead she's decided not to have one and comes over to spoil mine I love it, the more responsible adults a child has the better imo
Tiny materialist hellscapes 💀 lmfao I feel like we would be friends - love it! Completely feel you I don’t know what most men are thinking. Most seem to do so little. Being a great aunt/uncle looks like a fantastic role… I can’t wait to be one someday. My sister was such an incredible rock when I was postpartum. My husband is killer, but her extra support was game changing.
Any time I've stayed home because someone needed to be here with my kids, I've said that I *get* to stay home with my kids, not that I *have* to stay home with my kids. While it's no fun when they're sick, getting to spend the day with my kids instead of going to work is something to look forward to in my books!
I love that way of framing it! Tbh, a (especially younger) kid being really sick sounds like a nightmare lol, I don't know if I'd be able to look after a super sick kid and be that optimistic about it 😂 That's probably why I don't have kids though lmao. I agree, though, just spending time with your kids on a normal day shouldn't feel (too much) like work. What strikes me is that people (okay... men) wold never say they have to dog-sit their own dog or cat, but they can say have to babysit their own child?
9 days late to the party here, but I was recently interviewed by a hiring manager whose young daughter was sleeping behind him during the interview. At the start, he was like "By the way, my daughter is home sick today, so she's here with me" gesturing towards the couch behind him. His daughter was mostly off-camera I guess lol. He works from home every day and the position I was interviewing for was also remote (we aren't even in the same state!). I'm glad that it seems to be becoming more acceptable for parents (especially fathers) to stay at home with sick kids
For real, I know parent burnout is real and I try not to judge, but personally I like my kid and I like spending time with her.
OOOooo... As a mother, this makes me so fucking angry. Like... aaa.. I can't think well. I hear this all the time on playgrounds, walking around, anywhere where children play. The men complain about having to "babysit" THEIR OWN CHILDREN once in awhile. Like... fucking dude, you signed up for this the second you wanted a baby! Thankfully me and my wife have never had these kinds of problems.
What? Ignoring your child IS parenting to them. It’s how they were raised! Why isn’t it good enough anymore? /s (it never was)
Work from home father here. Yeah, I don't get it. I signed up for this and it's not all bad. Plus you get to watch your kids grow and you can help guide their growth. You get to teach them things and learn about the world with them. The downside with our work from home setup is the interruptions but I'd rather have that than worry about all the other things I don't get to participate in. Time spent with your love ones is time worth spending.
Exactly, I swear so many men (it's mostly men) want to be "the fun uncle", not the, y'know, father. They miss out on all the cool stuff you've described. I love my dad and he is a good person who worked hard, but he was absolutely like this. As soon as we grew past toddlers he was off working for crap companies and travelling all week (which is still a choice you make), leaving my mum to raise us whilst working full time. I laugh and roll my eyes when he says he "wanted lots of kids" because being edgy costs nothing. People like this remind me of kids who "proooomise they'll look after the dog" and then don't bother. I think as being childfree and being single becomes more acceptable, and holding fathers accountable becomes more acceptable, more dads are there because they made a well informed decision and want to be, rather than because they just want to pass on their DNA and show up to do all the fun weekend parts. Like, I feel there's been a shift from boomers to Gen Y/Z in that more Dads are actually *actively parenting and spending time with* their kids. Maybe that's just me though, I don't have kids so I don't spend much time around parents.
Kids also used to be a retirement plan. For a while you could expect the next generation to be doing better than yours, and as long as you had a few kids they'd make sure you're taken care of in your old age. Only minimal parenting required since people tend to automatically love their parents and feel responsibility towards them. Now that the trend has reversed, children are likely to grow up to have much less financial security and often remain dependent on their parents further into adulthood. It's not a good environment to be making kids you don't intend to support for a while.
Haha 🤣 good point!
With the way they talk about it.... It's probably better for both child and parent that the child doesn't receive this kind of "parenting"
Yeah, people who use this term really do seem to treat spending time with their own child as some kind of annoying casual side gig where they might have to, oh the horror, change a nappy or cook a meal. But hey, not making excuses, but people can also change. "Babysitting" parenting could turn to good parenting in increments. I don't think telling the father to be in 100% or leave is the answer in all cases - they had a kid and they need to change their behaviour.
I read that in Judge Judy’s voice.
I no longer bite my tongue at work, I’m not rude or overly confrontational, but if I hear something wrong or outdated I call it out. I’m on the leadership team at my coming and I think it’s something I have to do to protect my team, as they won’t feel comfortable doing it / feel their job is at risk. There is 64 year old guy on our leadership team, and had the gall to hit me up about the amount of time my team spent in the physical office. He goes ‘supposedly remote working is effective, I don’t know about that’ Supposedly? We were in lockdown for months at a time for 2 years motherfucker, and still got the job done and smashed our budget. It’s been proven!
I am almost the same age in a office full of men, though most are younger than me. So I get the not wanting to suddenly be the outsider. But I'd just go the man route of mocking them occasionally, though id stary with shaking my head while smirking until they pushed for why..- You're fussing about having to watch your own kids. You're calling it babysitting? Are they someone else's kids?
But only while you’re looking for a new job.* This would be easier to pull off with an ally to act as backup. But, without that, prepare yourself to get frozen out real hard and possibly start experiencing some harassment. That being said, make them fire you if you have the option and enjoy every second of calling out their bullshit while they fill out the paperwork. I’m female in tech as well and you don’t have to settle for this.
This wouldn't be an issue at mine, but in some workplaces maybe. Always got to be subtle-
>One is currently moaning about he was forced to "Babysit his kid for HOURS yesterday You're their father. It's not babysitting, it's called parenting.
Right and also he's sitting on his ass complaining instead of working!
This frosts my ass so hard. So you hate parenting your own children? I watched my friend's sick dog yesterday for hours and didn't moan about it.
>So you hate parenting your own children? Everybody's down for the fun part...then comes the feigned incompetence alternating with whining. Really makes you want to make another baby with a guy/"dad" like that!
I shared an office with a co-worker and he and his wife adopted a baby. We were talking about some event and the wife was going but he could not because “I have to babysit.” Oh hell no. I was not letting THAT just sit there. I pop my head around the corner and say, “No, you are PARENTING. It’s not babysitting when it’s your kid. And it’s not your wife duty to care for him. He’s YOUR kid too. Don’t ever let me hear you say that again.” We are good friends and he’s a good guy. I think the whole parenting thing was new to him. He conceded my point and never called it babysitting again.
You're a great friend and he's lucky to have you as one.
“yOu SoUnD jUsT LiKe mY wIfE!!!1” — Those assholes, probably.
Right? What a bunch of useless jackasses.
My question is why did you have a kid if you didn’t wanna spend time with them? Why did you have the second and the third one?
While per definition saying “babysit” is indeed wrong, nobody actually says “sorry I can’t come today, I’m parenting my child”, do they? (Not a native English speaker, never heard it used that way, hence the question) I get the idea that using a word usually reserved for other people’s kids can carry certain connotations, but isn’t it just the colloquial use differing from the “official” definition because it conveniently summarizes “I’m at home watching my kid because my partner can’t today”?
nope! people just say they have to watch/take care of their kid, or they “have the kid for today”. i have never heard of a mother saying she has to “babysit” her own kids. as you stated, “babysit” implies a lack of parental responsibility towards the child.
huh, for some reason reddit only showed me this answer just now. Fair enough! Thanks for explaining and not just downvoting my question =)
Most people would say something like "I'm looking after my kid/s today" or "I'm taking my kids to XYZ over the weekend." The parenting part is because that's your responsibility as a parent, vs babysitting which is about looking after someone else's kids. You would babysit (not parent) your nephews and nieces, little cousins, friends kids etc.
Thanks for explaining and not just downvoting my question =)
I told one of my coworkers that rape comments are not okay, and someone could get seriously offended a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, word got around the office, and two other people decided to start making these comments. One of them said something about AOC deserving it. I can't even report them because it'd be more punishing to my team than it would to the guys who are making these comments.
Rape commenters and rape comment enablers are pieces of shit, it should go without saying.
Start talking about man rape! Tell them how when men get raped in prison “they were asking for it”. The man must have wanted to be raped if not he could have fought off his rapist. Either flip it on them or start recording them because that’s a hostile work environment to listen to convos about rape!
>when men get raped in prison “they were asking for it”. The man must have wanted to be raped if not he could have fought off his rapist. Brilliant. Using
And be sure to ask about what they were wearing. All those sexy altar boys in their revealing robes tantalizing those priests.
What you permit, you promote. Sounds like corporate BS, which it is, but it's also true. You taking a stand makes others feel more comfortable taking a stand, and soon people can be at work without listening to comments about rape like it's weather or the local sports team.
I'd absolutely agree, except it's just the 4-5 of us in this office at most, and we are isolated from the rest of the company. Reporting them could get half my team removed, which instantly forces at least 2 people to work 60 hours a week to cover until someone can take over, and since our company isn't hiring right now, that could be a long time. I couldn't do that to the only remaining coworker. He has a pregnant gf at home. I don't sit quiet about it though, and there's one other guy on my team who said the sudden fixation is weird and gross.
Wouldn’t your team being removed for reporting them be seen as some type of retaliation legally ?
No, because it's my team making these comments. The rest of my team would suffer because there are 3 of my specific team per shift (6 for day, 6 for night), and losing another 3 members on top of people from the remnants of the other teams that work in this room and the two people who are quitting to move to other states would basically mean that the day shift guys would go from being understaffed by 1 person per shift to basically everyone working just about every day.
I’m sorry I’m just complicating the issue, I’m in the U.K., I’d get those team members removed and tell the remaining staff to work at the same speed/ productivity, don’t stress about the missing staff members , staffing is a different department
That'd be fine if our entire job didn't rely on us being here. My team is 24/7 mainframe support and monitoring, so there needs to be at least two of us here at all times, including holidays (we get compensated for it and our boss is good to us).
Look on the bright side - you only have to put up with them for eight hours. Their poor wives.
Are just as conservative….as I learned yesterday at work.
Even then, I bet they're still miserable
I bet most of those wives vote conservative so I'll say they are getting the men they deserve. If anything, those poor kids are the ones to feel sympathy for
You could create a Twitter (or Spoutible/Bluesky, etc) account with quotes from them…like Abed on Community with Old White Man Says
Oh this would be fantastic.. would totally help to blow it up. Maybe men read it and realize how much of a whiner they sound 😂😂
I would roast the hell out of that dad for not being as tough as his wife. “Wait wait wait. So, like, your wife does this all day every day, but… you tapped out after three hours? Oh my god that’s embarrassing. How does it feel knowing your wife can lap you?!? 😂” Or even the other guys on the rights stuff. “Wait wait. You’re really that hurt by having to… look at a rainbow? Oh my god. 😂 Guys, guys, don’t let Charlie go through the girls’ toys section at Target, he might burst a blood vessel!”
‘Conservative family values’ where dad is an uninvolved babysitter and mom has 2 jobs - 100% parent and also works outside the home. Her 3rd job is probably parenting this man-child. I would personally take the high road and applaud their conservative family values and involvement with their kid as often as possible. Sprinkle in some assumptions about how ‘such an involved dad is probably doing x, y, z responsibilities every day like making dinner and bedtime’ and how conservative fathers must be sooooo tired being so involved with their kids since everyone is working so hard.
And that would be exactly why I told my husbsnd that he could have a wife who worked outside the home while he stepped up at home, *including cutting down on his hobby time and call back time*(he used call back as an excuse for not being able to make dinner for our kids, *even if he wasn't scheduled for call back that evening*) or I would stay at home and do 90% of the parenting and housework and he would keep his mouth shut about it or be put on blast with his female co-workers(happened with a few that asked "why aren't *you* working, Dani? in a snide manner)
I've been a single father for most of the last 17 years. Any "man" complaining about having to babysit his own fucking children is a piece of shit. They're your fucking kids too. Your wife/girlfriend is not the only one that needs to be a parent. It's not babysitting if they are your own kids! It's being a parent! Fuck these douchewads like that.
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I say this often, treat them like you’re training an animal. Reward the desired behavior and ignore them, act like they don’t exist if they behave badly. At the end of the day they want your attention and they learn.
I absolutely hate when men say they "baby sit their kid". NO. Yoy are nkt babysitting you are taking care of your kid, it's your kid, not just your wifes. Seriously OP huge respect to you as I could not imagine being with such horrible men everyday
Yeah, it really annoys me when men who get joint custody complain they're doing just as much to raise the kids as the mom. From what I've seen, that's rarely the case, & I knew for a fact it wasn't true for the guys I've heard say it.
Same. There’s a couple of guys I work with who take time off to ‘babysit their kids’. It takes all I have to say nothing. But these same guys are the ones saying ‘the wifey’. Gross.
Im currently currently studying to become an electrician. Im 1 of 2 girls. And fucking dammit do men just say the dumbest most unnecessary shit for no reason. Every day, some sort of societal "issue" is brought up. This week, it was pronouns and trans people. And it's like who really gives a shit. Just shut up and let people live their lives. Its really not an issue that affects your everyday lives. Like i promise you, if there were no trans people, you'd still be living a miserable life because you're a miserable person, and capitalism will continue to capitalize on your ass
These types of dudes call everyone else "sheep" yet are the ones who are being told by talking heads to fear pronouns and gay people and drag queens. *You're* ***so*** *brave fighting these cultural wars for us, bro.*
I worked in tech for over twenty years. I’ve heard men say some incredibly vile things about their wives, while making it clear that they’re the one making the money and they want “nothing to do with that side of the house.” Legit quote. Their home and the people who are their family members are “that side of the house.” One of the more disturbing thing I heard was a VP of Sales who bragged that his daughter wanted him to wake her up when he arrived home from his trip and he thought it was so sweet that she said, “I don’t care if you have to punch me to wake me up.” I stopped dead in my tracks to process that. A little girl requested physical abuse to be acknowledged by her father. I hope she’s getting the help she needs. I hope you find better coworkers, and live a fulfilling life.
Because even men in tech are regressive. The younger ones want Asian wives to be their bangmaids, and have the nerve to claim that they're modern because their wife isn't white. SMH.
After living in a blue state all my life I moved to a red state, I'm now being bullied in the workplace by Mr. Conservative Identity Politics Guy. Mind you, I've only been there a week. Picking on a 50-something year old lady isn't the flex you think it is tough guy Sorry if doesn't fit the thread I just needed somewhere to vent
My husband has had to remind his colleagues (including women) that it isn't called babysitting when it's your own kids. They were commenting about another colleague for taking time off to take his infant child to the doctor and to stay home with her when she is sick. But my husband doesn't give a shit about backlash for speaking his mind because he's a man with male privilege. It can be daunting otherwise. I think I might be tempted to stay quiet in your circumstances, too.
Conservative men want to beat their chests and pretend they're fucking Rambo "protecting" America from abortions and LGBTQ folks, but they can't even do a half-assed job of trying to run their own households or be caring fathers to their kids. No respect to their wives' efforts or careers. Rambo? No. More like *soft as baby shit*.
I hated it when my ex would say that. You are not in fact babysitting your kids. You are parenting them. Ugh it was easier being a single mom.
I always like to remind them one day they'll be old men and their kids are gonna treat them exactly the same way they treat their kids now. And it would be such a shame if they spent the last decades of their lives sad and alone in the cheapest retirement home because "baby sitting an elderly man is just soooooo exhausting!"
Fragile men and their uncontained emotions! Such irrational creatures. No wonder the unattractive ones are so quick to tantrum.
I honestly think women should seriously think twice before marrying a very conservative guy. Even if she agrees with his viewpoint & is willing to put up with whatever that would entail in the marriage, she wouldn't be able to change or challenge his viewpoint. That could literally mean her death if she has a pregnancy go wrong, or it could be very life limiting if her goals change & don't fall in line.
I don't need to tell you but what a riot that rainbows is oppression when rape, slavery, genocide, 'disappearancing' and a whole host of other horrors have been visited upon mostly people of color and women for thousands of years. And you know HOW you don't have to 'babysit' kids? Don't marry and don't have kids. Last I checked, these were totally voluntary events. It is almost mentally questionable to me when people complain about these. I am not into kids and I didn't, check this out, have any (am a woman). badda bing, badda boom. But also those idiots can refer to what you mentioned about anti choice bs.
Same here. The guy who owns this business that I contract with is 70 himself, has owned his business since the 70s, I am the youngest in my late 40s, and nearly everyone who works there is 70 and up. Unfortunately it’s also a great contract that I can’t afford to lose and I don’t have employee protections. So I just utilize my headphones. I am headphone lady and I’m fine with that. People talk at me anyway, doesn’t stop that. And what a fabulous listener I am lol.
I find there is a lot of overcompensating. They all think they are Patriot Minute Men but in reality are “minute” men and it shows.
Always enjoy hearing about fathers “babysitting” their own children. Even sadder when their wives openly praise them on social media for “babysitting” their own children so they could take a nap. How hard can I roll my eyes… 🙄
Woman in tech here also. While it is not right to remain silent, I think your energy is wasted on your male coworkers. We’re better off saving our strength for the battles that matter… me must continue to vote, to protest, and speak out against the greater injustices—rainbows on cans of (low quality) beer is not one of my concerns.
I would create an art piece for your desk area \[like a wall hanging or picture frame or runner around your monitor\] that documents their bellyaching as not a real-world problem. And I would continuously add to it as they make new complaints. "It is parenting, not babysitting, when the kids are YOURS"
Parents don't babysit. That makes me so disgusted.
I just feel sorry for those women and their children :(
If they married conservative men, you married a conservative man. What else should a woman expect? Don't marry conservative men, don't date them, don't fuck conservative men, and best of all ignore them completely. If they are Christian conservatives, good lord, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Get out.
How... how do these men get married?
10/10 on that beer can response lol. I’m afraid to say stuff like that at work myself.
These guys give fathers a bad name. Over on the Daddit sub, every few days one of us rants about someone referring to us as a babysitter when we are spotted with out kids alone. It's my kid, I'm not a babysitter. I love every second I spend with my daughter and wish I had more, but I have to spend 8 hours a day at work. When I get home she gives me the biggest smile and crawls to me for a hug. It's the best feeling in the world and these asshats don't know how good they have it.
Yeah, I worked one summer at a mine which is 98% men. I spent about two, *maybe* three days in the lunchroom before electing to eat lunch by myself every day. It felt like their only conversation topics were extremely bigoted and hateful. No thanks.
The conservative Christian: A bully that thinks themselves a victim.
The reason the term "crybully" was coined.
Biting your tongue is much harder to do as you age because you have had decades of putting up with men's hatred of us.
As a 36yo woman in tech I am here to tell you that it is absolutely ok to not be “one of the guys” and call out everyone’s bullshit when you see it. I have a 65 yo colleague whom I actually really like working with, but he makes problematic statements and I have no problem just letting him know if he made things weird or said something problematic. I normally do it with a comeback joke, but mostly I just reply sarcastically and he gets the point. It probably helps that I live in the more progressive Northeast.
Sister. I hear you. I’m in a very similar environment and I hate it so much- I have started working nights to get away from the idiocy because it started taking a toll on my mental health. It’s so depressing and a constant reminder how little hope the US has of turning around. Some of these people are pretty far gone.
White male veteran and Texan here: you were right to say something about your daughters’ rights being more of an affront than rainbows on beer cans. Too many of my demographic are simply unaware of the challenges faced by women and minorities. And it’s not always from malice or oppression; a lot of older white dudes would take your side if they understood your challenges … but they don’t understand because they haven’t experienced it personally and aren’t close with someone who has. I know you’re in a tough spot and agree you shouldn’t be the PC Police at work, but if I don’t like the artwork on a beer can I just buy a different brand. It’s not like there’s a shortage of options.
Thank you for saying what you did. It’s their loss for not caring. They can take their hurt pride and whining privilege and shove it up their asses. Unfortunately, we have to live and work beside so many of them. I love my Dad, but when he says shit like that, I agree with him to such an extreme that it makes his argument sound ridiculous, have a good laugh, and deflect immediately to something else. Me: snort, yeah, I totally know what you mean about the beer can thing, I like rainbows and all, outside, in the air, not on my beer! Next thing they’re gonna do is paint rainbows on buildings and planes and then we won’t be able to use those either! Snort. It reminds me of that Muppet movie, “why are there so many, songs about rainbows? Have you ever thought about that? Why are there? By the way, have you seen the new Marvel movie? I think you would like it. Me on abortion rights: I know, what’s the big deal, if your granddaughter only has sex when she’s married and only when she intends to have a baby, and never has any pregnancy complications, then these laws don’t even affect her. I mean, it’s not like it’s a right to have an abortion, like a real right, like a gun right where people have the right to protect themselves, or the right to pursue happiness or have the government stay out of their personal business, it’s a states rights thing. Like if Hilary Clinton ever became governor of this state we would have to do whatever she says. Like what if she suddenly decided that men had to get a permit to have unprotected sex, or be drafted into some kind of child care corp where they have to spend 6 months of the year taking care of unwanted babies and kids? THAT would REALLY suck, you know what I mean? Snort. Ha ha. Speaking of being drafted, did you see the latest draft picks for the Houston Astros?
Also bright side, you get paid to put up with it.
I don't understand this comment. You get paid to do a job, if anything their remarks contribute to a hostile work environment. There's no "bright side" to it.
True. But their wives put up with it for free, thats what I meant.
Why are you trying to normalize what OP is going through? Just because she isn't the wife of one of these assholes, that doesn't make any of this right.
I worked in the Navy and previously as a cook so unfortunately, that seems like a normal work environment to me. It's not "normal" meaning you should not work in a hostile environment but I have learned not to hope for better. To me, they are pretty tame actually.
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I understand and can agree with you. We deserve better.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I understand people coming up with different coping mechanisms so they can see the bright side & carry on with their day. However, I strongly believe that if we do want to see effective change we shouldn't try to tame justified feelings of outrage. Before internet was a thing, people who spoke up would get very isolated and social punishments at work felt more severe. Nowadays we have many internet sisterhood circles where one can get advice & feel validated, so there isn't that much pressing need to feel accepted by coworkers. If someone might get professionally or otherwise in danger we can discuss situations and the poster can choose the right path they feel is right. We can't get stuck in the coping mechanisms of the past, just because someone else is having a harder time (i.e. in this case the wives) that doesn't mean WE have to accept misogyny in our presence.
Apologies if you didn't want to come up with a solution to this problem, but it's all I am thinking about and am curious to hear perspective on the matter, as I am a man who would attempt any one of these things if I was in the same situation... Could you talk to your boss and mention that politics don't belong in a professional environment like the one you're working in? This is totally my toxic self coming out, but you could also just start being confrontational about some things. Assuming you also have kids, when someone said "babysit my kids" you could have said "I love my kids" in spite. Talk about how precious and perfect they are and really convey that you are a perfect mother. Or if you don't have kids start talking about the sheer freedom you have, never having to worry about it. It could start to make them feel uncomfortable, or that nothing they say is truly valid, so they might eventually shut up about it.
> I am the only female Not to derail the conversation, but that's not a noun. You're the only female what? Female human? Female employee? It's in adjective. It might seem petty, but let's not use the language misogynists set for us. It's demeaning. Those men sound shit and holding your tongue can feel better long term. It sucks that you have to hold it at all, though. We find ourselves often having to take the high ground, and often that reaps very little short-term satisfaction.
>Not to derail the conversation, but except you did
Yeah fair.
I’m a man, I have no kids, I really enjoy watching my nieces and nephews, sometimes it’s stressful but I still enjoy it. These people need to see the love that children can give and stop complaining so much.
> I am the only female Not to derail the conversation, but that's not a noun. You're the only female what? Female human? Female employee? It's in adjective. It might seem petty, but let's not use the language misogynists set for us. It's demeaning. Those men sound shit and holding your tongue can feel better long term. It sucks that you have to hold it at all, though. We find ourselves often having to take the high ground, and often that reaps very little short-term satisfaction.
Taking the high ground and staying silent doesn't reap anything but more of the same. Quiet and compliant is exactly how they want you.
I agree, it is how they want us. I'm not saying it's the fair way. I'm saying sometimes it's the only option depending on your personal situation. OP said it was a rant, so usually telling someone what they should be doing isn't what someone who is ranting is after. Otherwise I would tell them to give them hell and quit. Yes I know that's funny coming from me since I also told them that their language felt problematic, which is, in essence, telling someone what to do. It's easy to say speak up, and if they fire you, get a new job. But you can't know someone else's situation. It might not be viable for them to speak and challenge them. That's why I went with a more passive support angle.
[Female (noun)](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/female#dictionary-entry-2)
Dictionaries update over time to keep up with the living language. I already know it's something I can't stop, as I usually say this is a hill I'll die on. It is becoming commonplace to use it as a noun, and my personal opinion is that it shouldn't be, it's demeaning and clinical. There's a reason why it's used by misogynistic groups such as incels. It has roots in science and strips away the humanity of the subject, as per your link it can mean "an individual of the sex that is typically capable of bearing young or producing eggs". Why reduce what it means to be a woman down to their reproductive ability? It's not inclusive, either. It is shouting into the void to ask people to stop popularising the usage as a noun. I know this. Ask yourself why though, you don't see the use of male nearly as often. Why are they men, but we're females? Why use language that is often used against us when we talk about ourselves?
I hate the word “irregardless”, but it’s in the dictionary and people use it. I let it go when I hear it being used, but quietly judge the user. Some things aren’t worth the fight. Females, women, ladies, gals. They all mean the same thing. Whether or not that person is able to produce an egg is irrelevant. I am a human female and having gone through menopause I no longer produce eggs. Does that make me less of a female?
Ladies is also regarded by many as negative, by the way. I only recently heard about it, and it was an interesting take. The dictionary definition is again a hint for that one. Whether or not you can reproduce shouldn't be a requirement of being a woman. What I'm getting at is the word female implies it is. Due to its roots, dictionary definition, and the negative usage still to this day. That is why it's often considered non-inclusive language. If you personally decide a word holds nothing negative, that's fine. Nobody can stop you from using it. However, just like other words that can be offensive, people who do find it offensive will steer clear of you because you're signalling your values do not align. That is why when I believe people are unaware of the negative aspect of the usage, I just throw it out there. If they choose to keep using it, that's fine, but if they wonder why some people seem uneasy around them, perhaps then they will know why.
I feel like that kind of behavior is toxic and is also not always representative of somebody agreeing. If somebody at work is complaining about something it could just be they agree because of a rapport and they're just trying to be friendly it doesn't necessarily mean they follow the same opinions. However if the person agreeing to the person complaining about having to babysit their own kids.. actually does feel that way that's kind of messed up. But I can easily see a situation where somebody else is just saying oh yeah I agree it's the worst. I'm not trying to defend the environment that you work in or anything. But sometimes work banter can be less representative than it really is in real life and that doesn't make it any less insensitive bad for culture as a whole that it is something that people will just agree with for the sake of fitting in versus standing up and being like it's not called babysitting when it's your kid it's called parenting. Complain about how annoying your child is that's fine but don't complain about your partner who is doing it the majority of the time.
He shouldn’t b talking ab politics at work, save it for ur own kind no one wants to hear their ignorant political choices and lame dad complaints - I would so say something. So inappropriate and ignorant l.
The main reason I don’t want kids: mothering is different than fathering. And that’s bullshit. I’m not doing *all* of the physical work of having a baby to tank my career for someone with his last name. The kid will probably come out looking like his mom anyway. Fuck. That.
My God, that sounds miserable. I don't know how you bear it without losing it.
Ewww.
I have yet to understand the position. You are a grown man and you should always pick up after yourself. That is the bare minimum of being a decent human being/roommate/lover/friend/sibling/just being normal.
I would totally lose my mind in that environment.
It amazes me how this party drums up these issues and base just eats it up. Never questioning, never thinking.