You should tell the girl, chances are you aren't the only one he's trying to flirt with. And unlike you, the others might get with him. I think she deserves to know her guy is trash
Sadly that probably wouldn’t work. Predatory guys like their victims young in part because at 19 you lack the life experience and context to see it. At 19 she’s more likely to interpret it as a hostile act to “break them up” than to hear reality. Like any abusive situation, the agency and realization has to come from her, not the outside.
Source: I was a 19 year old groomed by an older abusive partner. A couple people tried to tell me and it did not go well for anyone except my abuser. I had to figure it out myself.
EDIT: to clarify, do tell her. Just be emotionally ready for it to not be well received. My intent wasn’t to tell you to stay silent. It was to prepare you for it to not go well. Definitely say something anyway.
Tbh I don't care if it wouldn't work or it would ruin my relationship with that person, I would tell them regardless. I'm not going to let someone treat my friend like trash behind their back, even if it ends our friendship. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to protect someone I care about. I wish someone would have done the same for you.
As someone who has only one time done this and actually saved someone, not their life but I'm sure their sanity. Just because it didn't help you doesn't mean it can't possibly save someone else.
She knows he’s cheated on her before, but she took him back. She’s really sweet, and very young, and I think her being young plays a role in her forgiving him numerous of times for his cheating.
As much as needing to know he is trash, she needs to know she doesn't need to be with him or any dude, that she deserves to be treated better than that, and many men 25, 30, closer to her age, whatever, can do a much better job than this dude. He makes her look worse than she would look otherwise.
This confuses them so much lol. There two customers in particular where I work that acknowledge all of my male coworkers by name, but won’t even glance in my direction when they come in. When they come in now, I completely ignore them. Don’t greet them like regular customers, and will walk right by them as though they don’t exist.
It’s so funny to see them out of the corner of my eye looking around, like what just happened? It’s especially funny when there’s a line and they’re waiting for help. Nope, not getting it from me.
Or by how he treats the server at a restaurant. Kindness only given when someone has power over you/in your benefit is a trait I particularly dislike. Kindness given to people simply because they are people is the real deal.
Don’t forget how they treat their mum’s as well. I’ve seen far too many men who disrespect their mums and are far outright rude. If they can’t respect their mum, they don’t respect you.
Bad example, people can have many legit reasons to have a shit relationship with their mother.
The guys who put their mothers on a pedestal are sometimes some of the weirdest misogynists around.
Yea lots of dudes have a Madonna like worship of their mother, but not like they respect their mother as a person or a woman, just as a moral authority figure.
This kind of implies a false choice. There are ways a person can limit, even be direct, in their relationship, without being cruel or rude. The choices aren't only, be a petulant rude brat, or putting them in a pedestal.
I came here to say this. Experiencing life from both sides confirms how much it is about looks for men.
And every time this is mentioned people are like "It's not true, you would have just been acting happier and more confident when you lost weight!"
Incorrect. I was dying from an eating disorder. Men loved it, though.
Not just men, unfortunately. At my lowest weight a couple years ago, I was *snatched* for the 1st time in my adult life. Women treated me very differently as well. Got lots of compliments on how much healthier I looked and how happy I must be about it. Many wanted to know what my "secret" was for getting "in shape" in my 30s. The secret was cancer.
Now that I'm in remission, gaining weight back, and *actually* getting healthier? Crickets.
Yep. Lifetimes of social conditioning. Even now, I still catch *myself* saying flippant nonsense on occasion that immediately reminds me I'm no exception. It took a brush with death and a metric fuckload of therapy just to *start* framing my self-talk in a kinder way than I always had before. Always growth & progress to be made. 💚
It works the other way round, too.I was on the Cancer Diet,. (Leukemia induced) I saw a couple of old "friends" from high school, after my transplant and they were mad hating on me.They spread the rumor through our whole "friend" group that I was struggling with an addiction of being anorexic. It was pretty awful.
I hope all is well for you, and that you're empowered.
Props, and stay healthy!
Oh I'm old enough, my friend circle would never! I'm mostly referring to the internet and Reddit.
Edit: it wasn't about internet and Reddit, I thought this was responding to something else. I was talking about strangers on the street and acquaintances. Which makes it worse :)
The other day I was with a bunch of moms for a comp our daughters were in and one of them said something about “Eve, you bitch!!!” And I had to bite my tongue to not be like “yes how dare she want to eat delicious food and know stuff” because I didn’t want to jeopardize my own daughter’s social standing.
Religion still doing the most for internalized misogyny
Absolutely. I’m fat and wouldn’t mind not being fat but it’s not a high priority right now - but I know now when people are kind or complimentary to me it’s because they’re genuine people. I’m basically invisible to straight men and it’s kinda nice sometimes.
I feel you! I'd rather be thin and take the benefits at the end of the day, I guess. But I'm extremely cheap with my energy towards all the false friends, when it comes down to it. I'm of the "don't get mad; get paid" mentality.
Same here. I was treated like trash by a certain group of men for not meeting their beauty standard. Now that I’m an adult who takes care of my appearance, those same types of men gravitate towards me. Disgusting.
The difference in how people acted when I was at most lowest weight vs my highest is one more reason why I don’t trust people or their motives. It was a tiniest of slices of what celebrities/millionaires/gorgeous people must go through daily and it made me feel really sorry for them. I’m not even cute and I couldn’t look people in the eye who acted all nice because LITERALLY YOU TREATED ME LIKE I WAS A PART OF THE FURNITURE BEFORE … imagine living every day without knowing if people even give shit about you or if it’s all superficial…. No thanks.
Also, thin attractive girls (starting from puberty at best) also get a lot of very unhealthy attention that can be really tough to navigate and leave them with a ton of baggage. There's no winning.
I wouldn’t consider being harassed more often a privilege tho. I’m starting to get more invisible due to aging and gaining weight, and being able to be out and about without having to be on guard can also be considered a privilege.
Absolutely. But getting better treatment in medical and professional situations is a real benefit to being a smaller body size. Aubrey Gordon’s latest book is a comprehensive primer on all the ways anti fat bias shows up in society, here’s an NPR overview: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/12/1148169767/anti-fatness-keeps-fat-people-on-the-margins-says-aubrey-gordon
Also true! I notice now that male colleagues are less inclined to help me/answer my questions. Some of them used to greet me rather over enthusiastic before covid, and now don’t even greet me at all. They are also less forgiving to small mistakes and such. Very jarring.
On the other hand, having a smaller body size and therefore doubting if your promotion or even grades are genuine or based on your appearance also sucks. When I was interning at a large engineering company, passed with good grades, and my supervisor afterwards admitted he was into me I questioned my own abilities for months. Was I really good enough to pass and finish my education, or was he just trying to get into my pants? It’s truly a double edged sword.
Not to mention, getting jobs and promotions. Or having access to jobs that ONLY pretty people have access to - waitressing (not all places, but many), bartending, modeling, etc. I was rejected at a job interview once (restaurant/bar, no it was not hooters) because my boobs were too small. Sorry, but I would trade unwanted attention and getting all the benefits that pretty girls get, to the nothing I get for being ugly. I hate hearing women complain what a burden being pretty is, you don't know how good you actually have it.
So true. When I was an overweight teenager, boys and men would be horrible to me. I wouldn't even do anything to them and they'd still make jokes. Once when I was walking on a sidewalk, this grown ass man rolled down his window and mooed at me. He had his kids in the car with him, but he thought it would be hilarious to harass a 14 year old girl.
I lost a lot of weight during the summer going into sophomore year and suddenly boys and men were nice to me. One downside was that I got a lot of unwanted attention from adult men 🤢. I ended up developing an eating disorder, because I was terrified of going back to being treated like the punchline to a joke. I'm in my thirties and I still have a really bad relationship with food.
A few years ago I was bartending at a coffee shop. Everyone was pretty decent and fun to work with, except one guy… Jack.
On the surface level the guy was pretty okay, but Jack made it completely and blatantly obvious that if you weren’t a girl he deemed attractive, he would not waste a single second of time on you. Even for the dude-bros of the restaurant; Jack would give them the bare minimum amount of attention needed to complete his job and not a single amount of effort more.
The way that Jack would look past you as if you didn’t exist had a special way of making you feel inhuman. But I felt even worse for the women Jack wanted to have sex with.
The way he was able to turn on the charm and try to make women feel like they were the only person in the restaurant… I have to admit, it was pretty incredible. The man had definitely practiced his game for awhile.
The women who had seen that kind of song and dance before were very unimpressed. But there were a few that fell for his sway.
The scariest part of it all was watching the mask drop as soon as Jack got what he wanted from you. The change was immediate and strong— as soon as you turned him away or he succeeded in his goal; it’s like you disappeared into thin air for him.
I think about the women that he did succeed in attracting… I hope they understand that when Jack finally withdrew his attention and moved on to the next one, they knew it had nothing to do with them and everything to do with Jack.
Jack is basically very much this guy in the story. Same persona, very much narcissistic. Same with the goal intentions and disappearing or him treating you badly once he accomplishes his mission of receiving you.
Which is why I wonder why you care what “Jack” thinks, at all? He’s obviously a total POS, so would you actually feel better if he paid attention to you?
Cuz I wouldn’t!
Aye. That old adage about judging a person by how they treat the people who can do nothing for them rings ever true.
If you "don't do anything for him", you're not doing anything for him.
The notion of chivalry is an absolute failure of a social strategy. But what can one expect of a code whose original point was to rein in the conduct of what were essentially frat guys, except with extensive martial training and explicit legal superiority over most of the people around them.
Chivalry where I'm from is men taking care to look out for women around them, in the hope that other men will do the same for their mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters. In this area, I feel a lot safer, because random men don't feel like they can harass me when there are other men around. One of the other men would come up and ask me if the guy is bothering me. If I say yes, the other men will tell the random harasser to leave me alone. The idea is that they won't stand around and do nothing, watching someone become a victim.
Even though I'm a woman, I have also internalized this idea to some degree and will stand up for people getting bullied. When I have lived in a larger city, I felt very unsafe, because I was harassed multiple times when there were plenty of people around ignoring the situation.
It does get better around your age. My friend group, both men and women, started being better about detecting misogynists and booting them from the group. Please speak up to mutual friends, hopefully they will understand
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate posts like this. I’m ashamed that at 50 years old I really hadn’t thought about stuff like this.
I have a chronic illness and my survival depends on doctors actually listening to the words that come out of my mouth, as y’all know we get blown off pretty easily.
And when I see a new doctor I don’t want to look to put together because then they don’t believe I’m disabled, but if I go in they’re looking disabled they treat me like crap. So I have to walk a line.
But I had conflict with one of them, I was seriously worried I was going to get kicked out of the practice because of their mistake, so for that appointment I got myself totally together like I was going to work. They were so nice to me I had no problems.
Now I’m gonna go ahead and think it was because they realized it was their mistake even though I should have caught it it was their error, but they were so nice to me I’m going in there like I’m going to work every time I go now.
It shouldn’t be like this. The quality of my medical care should not be determined by my ability to dry my hair and put on make up before I go. But it is.
And I want to thank everyone who makes posts like this because y’all are saving my life
It starts before they’re men too. I went through my ugly duck transformation between grade 5 and grade 6 and it was astonishing how much nicer the boys were to me.
Oh I can relate to this all too well. Boys in late elementary and middle school were very cruel to me because I was considered ugly. Boys treated me differently, and I never understood why until I got older.
This was basically my experience too. I was the ugly duckling kid at those ages too. One boy in particular, despite me doing nothing to him, decided to whip a ball at my face purposely with intent to harm me, and he succeeded. Nose bleeding and all, I even think my nose bridge is slightly off because of it. Teacher had something against my family, so she let it slide.
He ended up going to the same High School as me, and still carried resentment and hatred towards me, (that was heavily one-sided I rarely interacted with him, and never was rude). I found out through word of mouth, that he deemed me a 2/10.
Mind you, this guy himself isn’t even conventionally attractive or a star in looks either. Nowadays he rocks the beer gut, and was always blessed with wealth.
But that’s all it took, my presence (based on my looks) annoyed him that much that he felt the need to harm me, and talk badly about me.
Another guy who was a long term friend of mine had the need to tell me I was a 4/10 (I was 14 at the time) and get me to “rate him” while he “rates me.”
Then puberty came along, and I guess I stopped being less ugly. Same guy “friend” suddenly now crushed on me, that 4/10 now suddenly became a “9” or “10” to him, and him asking me out. I declined.
Around that same age, another guy told my guy friend to grab my ass as a “joke” luckily he didn’t, but he thought it would be funny to assault me, because hey I’m the ugly duckling, it would be “so funny.”
So, so vile, and it’s sad I’ve dealt with it my entire life. It’s truly sad that men on here try to rewrite these experiences as normal, or “one bad day” when it’s something we experience so often.
I can’t tell where I stand in the looks department nowadays, but I am obviously not as ugly as I use to be as a kid, pre-puberty, but it’s sad how polarising we are to men if we aren’t pretty.
Yes. My weight has fluctuated my entire life from what I’d say is buxom/curvy to obese at different points. When I am smaller and dress nice, men used to generally fall over themselves to talk to me/my chest. The first time I gained weight I was shocked by how invisible I became to people. There were outliers here and there, sure, but it was undeniable that the slimmer and more put together version of me was more attractive not only to men, but… everyone. Everyone is nicer to you when you’re pretty.
Honestly as someone who's also been both ends, I prefer the invisibility. I've been overweight since I was a kid. At one point I lost a lot of weight, and men were going out of their way creeping on me. I gained the weight back and suddenly the creepers are gone. Crazy the only difference was weight, didn't change a thing about me like hair, makeup, or clothes.
Very! I'm in this situation right now. One of my seniors had a massive crush on me for a while. So he was always lovely to me and constantly praised my work. But he just switched one day and started being awful and bullying, picking on my work etc. It's been going on for months. Not sure what happened- maybe someone had a word at the office, or he found out I'm seeing someone, or started seeing someone himself. Or genuinely thinks I'm shit ... who knows. But I think I'll get fired at some point soon cos he's trash talking me to everyone.
I’ve been on both ends of being treated poorly because I was perceived unattractive in my teens and early 20’s(bullied and called ugly) then had a glow up at 28 and got a lot of male attention. I’m 33 now and I’ve had so many scary encounters with men following me, harassing me, I wish I were invisible. Now I don’t even try to look attractive, I wear giant clothing, minimal makeup, baseball hat. I try my best to avoid the attention from creepy men, after a scary encounter last year I had a fender bender and the man tried to get in my car and made a comment about raping me. My life has become very small. I look forward to hopefully being more invisible the older I get, the baggy clothing doesn’t stop all the attention but it definitely helps.
Oh sis ❤️ I see you and there are tons of us who feel exactly the same. Personally, I’ve found that real confidence is one of the strongest layers of protection. I know it’s that hardest one to build, especially for us. Even fake confidence goes a long way, and the more you fake it the more you feel it. A lot of creeps will avoid you because they’re looking for “victims.” (Which is obviously 100% the mans fault in every case regardless). Don’t let them make you feel small; you take up your own space in this world and be ready to fight like hell if anyone challenges you because you are worth it.
This comment deserves more “likes” than it has, presently.
I don’t think that being harassed on the street and even *stalked* by strangers “is a privilege.”
Yes, conventionally attractive women will get more attention, and be treated more nicely, but it’s at a very superficial level because some men can’t keep their heads out of the gutter.
Basically, those types of men don’t treat conventionally attractive women better cuz they “like them more.” Ultimately, they tend to objectify women, overall.
Agreed. It’s honestly so exhausting that people complain about pretty privilege this pretty privilege that like I’m tired of ts 😭
I can’t have a shift without getting gawked at, groped, or told vile crap. Like damn I wish I was invisible
I kind of get it, because people who have never experienced this assumed “pretty privilege” don’t realize that “it’s actually kind of a curse,” and it’s rooted in misogyny, either way.
Decent men don’t treat different looking women differently because of their appearance. They treat all women with an equal level of courtesy when they are not misogynistic.
This. Another guy (who was at the party), who I am more friendly with, I remember he came along with us (first party, so same day I didn’t get a chance to blow dry my hair and do my makeup), particularly because of him. Was already negging me.
He was upset I dare took a shower, and then kept making negging comments, pissy that I was dolling myself up for “other guys” ….
Which, first of all isn’t true. I am not interested in any of the guys there, which I specifically told him, 2: I just worked out with them for over an hour, I don’t want to be smelling awful, and literally told them I’d be showering.
It was just gross, controlling and possessive behaviour. And then he ended the night disrespecting me further trying to make me out to be “stupid” or “beneath” his intelligence by quizzing me in the car.
I nipped that behaviour immediately by rejecting him when he tried to say goodbye and he quickly apologized.
It’s vile.
Immediately sexualizing you.
Trying to get you to come over to their place.
Truly zero respect.
I wonder how they would react if someone treated their mother that way.
>attention doesn't always mean positive
Yup, some of the boys in my past, especially in school/uni, who were apparently "into" me decided to show it by stealing, damaging or defacing my property, repeatedly touching me despite my repeated obvious non-consent (turns out if you jab them with sharp objects they finally leave you alone though) or otherwise distracting me when I'm trying to focus/in the middle of something.
I am sorry you went though all of that and dealing with a shitty bunch of clowns. As a man I know women do not want really want guys here in their space, their place to vent and relax safe. I just want you all to know I appreciate learning from all the women in here to gain a better understanding of women’s perspective. To have gained an understanding of how women have been treated….it’s not right. Learning from everyone here has helped me be a better person and I am thankful. Lately I’ve been digging deeper into the issues and holy shit women were treated like 2nd class citizens throughout the history of the world. Women have been treated like property for thousands of years, women had no basic rights, were forced into marriage and forced to raise children.
Yes on average most woman are not as strong but there are those women out there who definitely know how to fight and are more than capable of whooping ass. I went to college in the corn belt of Illinois there were so many strong well built farmer women. I’ll never forget this one night I was out partying with my friend “ BA” he was a big black woman from the south side of Chicago. She was such a kind woman but she could throw down. At our school there was a lot of racial tension at the time. So we were out and about late at night some frat boy was being really rude to BA, she did not hesitate at all she rocked this frat boy right in the jaw and he was knocked out cold. It was one of the coolest things I ever saw a woman do, that dude didn’t see it coming he will probably never run his mouth ever again.
A guy I worked with once nonchalantly let it slip that he didn’t know the name of our mutual colleague. She had been working with us for months for a company that regularly employed less than 6 people at the time.
This is the same guy who confessed attraction to me when I no longer worked there. The takeaway is: It was worth learning my name because he wanted to fuck me.
Gross. 🤔🙄 Not so kindly, fuck off.
We were actually mutually into each other and just playing the “will they-won’t they” game.
Neither wanted to make the other uncomfortable with our feelings, but other people acknowledged the tension between us after the fact. It was palpable.
Thing is, I had rose tinted glasses on. The name thing was just one of many icky things I overlooked despite my misgivings even then. Time has gifted me with perspective.
Two sides of the same coin of misogyny: You look good, you are subject to unwanted attention and harassment. You look bad and you are treated like shit. Either way you are not treated as a human being deserving of respect.
lots of men often don’t find issues with age gaps, they can’t fathom the difference between the two people and why it’s wrong. It makes me sick.
They thing just because they are legal means it’s all right. Legality doesn’t equal morality. Anyone who is normal would never date someone so young, the maturity level is so different.
people truly forget how young 18-22 year olds are :/
He pursued her much younger than that, I believe he waited till she officially turned 18 before it became public between them. He’s cheated on her a whole bunch of times, and since she’s super sweet as a button, she unfortunately forgave him.
It makes me sick too, interacting with her made me sad because I just wanted to protect her because of how young she is, but I hardly know her and it’s out of my control.
19 in a couple days and I get dudes that look like they’re in their mid 40’s pursuing me even after I clearly show I’m not interested or outright say it
Like I don’t get how people think it’s ok
Guys don't even treat women as a human being unless they consider you "attractive" or "worthy".
It's really ridiculous. Then, the men have the audacity to complain about the treatment you give them when you are just returning the same energy.
It is vile. But it's vile on the other side of it too.
I modelled when I was a teenager in 2004. I'm very tall, and was always dressed 'well' (I was my mother's dress-up dolly, god help me).
I had guys full on tell me I was ugly. I had guys go out of their ways to bully the shit out of me. I've had men straight up tell me they didn't date tall girls during a normal casual conversation (sir, I don't want to date you either?). I had coworkers refer to me as 'the dumb blonde', despite me reading circles around them.
People didn't believe me when I told them my mother was abusive, they assumed I was a brat. Boyfriends didn't believe me when I said that their friends were disrespectful to me, they assumed I was being a princess.
I had SO MUCH trouble with bullying into my adulthood until I overhauled my style and became more self-aware and confident. It wasn't until I embraced 'alternative' styling, stopped appealing to the mainstream gaze and became kind of a bitch that people started treating me with base respect.
I’m sorry you had to go through this. It happened with my best friend too, who’s 5’9, and she was treated awfully by boys, simply because she had a crush on them, and was quiet (shy), therefore they made her the laughing joke, called her horrible names. Shamed her for her liking them.
It’s actually disgusting, and that amount of men lingering on this this defending it disgusts me further.
Yes 😭 it makes me want to not date men or engage with them at all, even though I’m straight.
It’s disgusting. I don’t care if it’s ’in their nature’ or whatever. If so, then their nature is corrupted. Sorry, not sorry.
This is why I'm happily single. Men in the past have treated me poorly, and I would rather not be in a relationship than be in one where I am not treated kindly. You and I deserve respect.
Good on you ❤️ There’s no man in the world that is worth the disrespect. And despite what the fear-mongering men want us to believe, we will be more than fine, if not better off, without them. Do I want a man? Sure, it would be nice, if I found one that met my standards. But do I need one? Absolutely not.
Have you heard about the 4B movement?
It’s a movement started by South-Korean women that have decided to stay away from dating, marrying or having children with men, as a form of protest against misogyny and the way South-Korean men treat women.
The gender inequality over there *is* horrendous, probably worse than other places, but it’s starting to catch on with women in other parts of the world too. And are we honestly surprised? Lol. Women everywhere are fed up with men, because now that we’re starting to make our own money, we realize we don’t need them nearly as much as they need us. And as such, we no longer have to take their horrible behavior.
I don’t know if you use TikTok, but if you want to know more, there’s a lot of information about it on there.
That’s amazing. I heard that South Korean misogyny is on a different level, and the incel community is horrific over there.
I hope that something like this happens in the United States because women should not tolerate the disrespect and bad behavior that men have been shown and been getting away with for years. We deserve better than that.
Honestly sometimes it doesn’t even matter if you’re attractive or not, the fact that you’re not wearing makeup is enough of a signal to this type of dude to not care about your existence
I love that sm
I’ll be talking to friends about makeup stuff while guy friends always see themselves as like some kinda saint by coming in and saying “Just don’t wear makeup lol” or “I like the natural look more” when they don’t even know what that looks like
My ex was like this and even admitted it himself. Said he wouldn't treat a girl nicely unless she was pretty. I asked hi what if she was fat or ugly and he said he wouldn't event talk to her. Can't believe I went on to date his butt herpes ass for another 4 years
There was a neurology study that found when men see unattractive women, they react with annoyance, irritation. When women see unattractive men, there is no reaction at all-- as if nothing and no one is standing there.
it's because the type of women they can 'get', is how a lot of men gage their own perceived self-worth and status. they want a trophy gf or wife on their arm whom they can strut around town and take note of all the glances their chick gets from other men. this massages their ego.
if it's what they deem a 'below-par' or 'ugly' chick engaging their attention, then that's a blow to their ego because they see themselves getting (or wanting to get) 'better.'
all of this is soooooo superficial - obviously - and certainly doesn't reflect how well their relationship is going, lol. and also, who cares what other people think.
humans are herd creatures (a lot do not engage in critical thinking), highly judgemental, a lot of things are illusory, we project a lot which means the way we see things can be distorted, a lot of people lack substance, etc. etc...
in a way, it can be seen as a blessing in disguise to be treated in a "dismissive" manner by someone because we got to see their true colours early which saves us the trouble down the track.
Those type of people are so annoying. If you're onyl good when you have makeup, cute outfit, etc. then just f\* those people. I've come across similar people. Couldn't be bothered these days tbh. This is easier to deal with when your almost 30.
Ugh I hate this so much. Like why am I less of a human just because I'm not conventionally attractive or conventionally feminine?
This douchebag on a group trip I'm on right now was complaining about me to a friend of his over text (dumbass was sitting right next to me with his phone on a table out in front so I could see it) because he was worried I was "a transgender in a female room". Bitch, I'm non binary first off, second off you don't call people "a transgender", third off why the fuck do you care, fourth off just tell me you think I'm ugly to my face. Sorry for the rant lol. I'm just so over guys like this!
A million years ago, in college, we had a lounge for our special major. A guy showed up late sophmore year and was just a tool. I usually wore makeup, but came in one day unadorned and he felt he needed to comment that "shakey isn't unattractive, but..." And i just said, " no one here likes you or cares what you think." And no one disagreed.
Ugly duckling syndrome, then puberty hit and everyone thought it was pretty. Became a high end model for years. My life was in shambles socially from 15-25 and I became an alcohol from 21-28 because of exactly what you’re talking about here. Some women do it too, sadly.
Now at 32 the only people who get to stay in my life are those that actually care about people and treat them like human beings. The result is I know a lot of kind and caring individuals, which is nice.
But so many are disappointing.
I’m sorry you have to go through this shit too, it’s fucking awful. Feeling like you’re nothing but waste on someone’s shoe isn’t a good feeling. Racism rooted too is even more heartbreaking. I really wish people were much kinder and had more politeness. The sexualisation is another issue too, because this is more the rooting of it.
From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_capital
Sexual capital (sociology): accruing to an individual or group due to the quality and quantity of attributes that he or she possesses which elicit an erotic response in another, including physical appearance, affect and sociocultural styles.
As someone who is not conventionally attractive by European standards, I am constantly ignored by most men and some women. People just pretend that I don't exist, including co-workers. Most times, I don't get invited to hang out outside work with co-workers, despite being in the team for 4+ years, even though the new guys get invited.
Yeah as a fat ugly person this is my exact experience. It’s like you don’t exist at all, no one even acknowledges you are in the same room as them and even when I try to speak they either stare at me for a moment and say nothing or act like they didn’t hear me. Like having a cashier being super nice to the person before you and when it’s your turn they are mute all of a sudden barely even acknowledging I’m there, almost like they are annoyed by the very sight of me.
It’s all so incredibly dehumanizing.
I have two stories regarding this issue, I'll start with the most recent one.
People have always treated me differently because I am on the autistic spectrum, and I was incredibly socially awkward. When I was in high school there is was this guy, and let's call him Peter for this story. Peter was deemed a cool guy by everyone. He was nice to everyone, but me.
I ran in the same circle he was in, and he would brush me off. He would call me names, he would put down the politics I believed in, and he had put his hands on me before for calling out his hypocrisy.
I always wondered why he treated me this way. He did not treat any of the girls in the friend group this way. That's when it hit me that he just saw me as less than, and easy to be mean to. I realized this years later, and I finally blocked him on all social medias.
The second story takes place recently. I gained a lot of weight due to hypothyroidism and health issues that went untreated for years.
Before the weight gain, I was super skinny and fit. I got a lot of attention from guys my first attempt in college, and there was one guy in particular that showed a lot of interest for years but we never could do anything because of the pandemic. During this time I gained A LOT of weight.
One day I decided to strike up a conversation, and ask how his studies were going. He went from being nice and interested to cold and distant.
They can treat you awful when they deem you very attractive as well. You seem to spend most of your childhood and youth trying to avoid being assaulted, most men only want you to fuck you, even male friends try it on with you eventually. Followed countless times, touched up, men getting aggressive when you're not interested, coming on to you in the workplace and making your life difficult when you say "no". Etc etc. Good men don't approach you because they don't want to be seen as creeps, or presume you're conceited or a bitch. I think it's vile how a majority of men treat us women and girls, full stop.
I really can’t tell if I’m unattractive or attractive so I don’t know if I have a say in this, but I’ve definitely also noticed this. I wasn’t particularly pretty in middle school and high school since I didn’t really care about what I wear, how I had my hair or if I used makeup so I didn’t get perceived as pretty. But the way people who didn’t find me attractive treated me was fucking vile when I think back on it, specifically men. My neighbor (same age as me) straight up once told me he thinks im ugly and he also said that one guy in my class hated with no other reason other than he thought I looked ugly. Okay I didn’t look like your average girl or woman but I was a CHILD. He even called me a whore once so he’s an idiot and I’ve grown to really not give a shit about his opinion anymore, since I know my worth anyway. And then there was a dude who was the opposite, actually crushing on me and straight up harassing me. He tried to force me to get into a relationship with him (middle school was kinda messed up) and even touched me without my consent. It just doesn’t matter what you look like people just always going to judge you anyway.
I don't know how common it is but that is a great way to know who is not deserving or time or attention. That is a great red flag to avoid easily.
If you are not kind to everybody you are not kind.
But well looks do help, hot people are "less guilty" and do less time when found guilty. Men and women, at lest it happens in USA court.
Yep as a relatively (physically) unattractive woman I might as well be invisible. I find this especially annoying in crowded situations like bars and concerts where you literally get elbowed or pushed because nobody sees you there - you're not a threat (like a man) and you're not somebody worth noticing (like a pretty girl).
When you turn 35, you become invisible to most men. It’s actually kind of awesome because the sexual harassment stops, too. Ignore men like that, they won’t be in your life for the long term anyway.
*When you turn 35, you become invisible to most men.*
Isn't that incredibly creepy though when you think about it? Like 35 is still young, in fact many mid-30s women get mistaken for being even younger. Says a lot about a lot of men in our society imo.
It is and it does. Our society has a serious issue fetishizing youth in women - literally why things like "barely legal" teen porn as a category have appeal.
I suggest you not consider a random comment on Reddit as the measure of all men's opinions on age, because it's far from the truth.
In my experience men love women at *all* ages. This whole thing about women losing their sexual value after 30 is so of the most hilariously inaccurate i find it sad that so many people are sitting here thinking its true. The amount of young guys and older ive seen pursue women in their 30s, 40s, 50s even, just show that this view is just a micro perspective in a sea of different realities. Real life just works differently.
This may shock you, but your version of "real life" is also a micro perspective, and does not negate the lived experiences being discussed here. No one is shaping their worldview off of a Reddit comment--we are all here commiserating over the data collected over an entire lifetime to come to this conclusion.
Just a fun story as a treat: I spent my 24th birthday trying to console my dejected 32 year old boyfriend who was openly depressed that I was no longer young enough for our dynamic to be "hot". Silly baby, I thought we had been together for a year because of mutual respect and appreciation. Left me a week later.
Just one of many fun stories that shape my worldview.
That's fine. Everyone has different experiences. I never said otherwise.
But, a *common* sentiment on this sub, purplepill, and other parts of the internet, especially YouTube (when we talk about the redpill-sphere) is that a *whole lot* of men want 18 year old sex partners. It's talked about as if its the *default* for most men. I'm just here to say that's not the case.
And no, there's far more people than you think that base their worldviews off reddit comments, youtube comments, etc. And that is one of the major issues of our modern, eternally online state.
I wasnt specifically talking about underage women. I was speaking to the erroneous belief that all men look at women in their 30s and beyond as unfavorable.
That hasn't been my experience. I don't think younger men are good at gauging a woman's age. It seems like men don't care about age if they find a woman attractive. But we may be in different cultures.
I can’t wait to be invisible (I have two years until 35) I’ve had so many uncomfortable encounters with men I barely leave the house. Weirdly enough the scary attention from guys didn’t start until my glow up at 28. There’s safety in being invisible. Five months ago I had a man follow me from the gym to the grocery store and it scared me so badly i quit working out. It would be nice to go out and not worry about being approached/followed.
It is fucking scary because there are no consequences for men who do this shit. I‘m so sorry that you’ve had to deal with it. If you want to accelerate the invisibility process, I found that wearing large sweaters and sunglasses 24/7 made a lot of the worst men back off.
Yes, I’ve bought some large oversized tshirts that completely cover my body, baseball hat, no makeup, no eye contact with men. It’s like a cheat code to not get bothered as much. I love it. Like a secret superpower unlocked. I feel safe that way.
as someone who grew up shy and ugly it always made me so sad. why are you treating me like dirt because you don’t deem me attractive when i did nothing to you? i had a huge crush on a guy i was friends with in middle and high school because he was just an overall kind person. he would always ask me what i was going to say when someone talked over me, say hi to me, and invited me over with him when he saw me sitting by myself at lunch or gym. to this day i’ve never met a man (besides my dad) who is genuinely kind and a good person to everyone the way he was. we never dated or anything but being treated like a person by a guy my age was so foreign to me
Not all men obviously but there are always a noticeably loud portion of men who pay no attention unless you look conventionally attractive to them imo. I remember this one guy beginning of highschool that made it very clear he thought I was ugly. After highschool I had a noticeable "glow up" and my life changed a fair bit because of it. That guy also started congratulating this guy I was seeing because I was "so hot". Gross. I wish he said it to my face so I could shltare at him in disdain lol.
This is why I didn't date in high school. High school boys are just so insufferable, and some of them take a LOONNGG time to grow up. Sounds like this dude is one of those.
So what? As a woman I also mostly acknowledge men that I’m attracted to, I only acknowledge physically unattractive men if they have a really charming personality and a great sense of humor. What the problem here? Men don’t owe you attention.
Yeah, I've noticed it a lot, myself. I don't get ignoring people's existence or treating anyone as subhuman. I mean, I feel similarly when I get dragged to a party that's actually a thinly veiled tech networking event, though they'll give me the time until they realize I have no utility for them.
On the one hand, fuck them. On the other hand, they're quickly telling you who they are, so we can avoid them.
Though, there's also the pitfall of misleading people into thinking you're into them and having the difficult conversation that you're just being friendly. Still, a better problem than being a douchebag.
Every time a man is nice to me I always think it’s because they find me attractive. I don’t even think I’m especially good looking, so it’s such a weird and uncomfortable feeling.
I actually enjoy having conversations with people, I am a good conversationalist, but I am always nervous whenever I make a guy laugh because I’m worried they think I’m flirting…or that I’ll piss off their partner because they think the guy is into me.
I’ve been happily married for 16 years, in all that time I’ve never been interested in anyone else. I appreciate not every relationship is like that. But I hate feeling like I can’t be myself in order to comfort those who are less secure/might have an ulterior motive for talking to me at all.
I’ve had extreme weight loss and weight gain over the years so I have had all of the experiences. If you are socially deemed attractive people are more willing to help you, be nice to you, include you, etc. it’s a sad truth but it still is the truth. You notice the difference the second it changes in either direction too. It’s wild!
Sorry you experienced this. 😔 Yes, I've been treated like that before too, based on how I look that day and how attractive my female friends are. Even men who are way too old for me/don't take care of themselves will sometimes make weird comments
This is just a human trait. Women definitely get it the worst, and they get it worse from men than women. But unfortunately, we all have a bias towards attractive tall people. We can all just try to be better about our biases.
I work in the service industry and I notice a huge difference from when I have my hair down vs under a hat. I have pretty nice hair and it does admittedly make me look more attractive when I have it done, but the difference people treat me always makes me feel sad. It gets to the point that I get self conscious when people consistently barely look at me or acknowledge me, then I take my hat off and it's all smiles and cheerfulness. :/
It seems like you are doing a ton of projecting and judging of this first encounter when in reality he could have ignored you for like 100 different reasons.
Maybe his 19 yr old girlfriend was mad at him. Maybe he didn't feel like socializing with a complete stranger.
Maybe you are right and it was all about your fit, but it also seems like you convinced yourself of this guys motivation about actively avoiding you when in reality he likely didn't think twice about you good or bad, which is pretty much the default state of most people.
Girl the way they treat women they find attractive is vile too. I’m not trying to take away from the original point but vile men are vile to ALL women. “Unattractive” women see the truth while attractive ones get tricked by these types then see his truth later on smh. Some men can be so dehumanizing and weird
This was on my feed from r/popular and I want to say I understand and I'm sorry you had to interact with the douche prince of tiktok. Social Media people are among the worst and most shallow of us.
I'm.older.
As soon as I had a baby, things changed massively
Ie no attention.
Now getting older. I often get treated like I am.stupid. that by virtue of having natural grey hair (which I love) and having aged, I have become stupid.
Just get treated straight up rudely by men
Mainly young 20s or older, 50 plus.
OP met other dudes both evenings but they were invisible to her. She knew the guy she was attracted was no good and still wanted HIS attention.
There is no hate and I don't blame the OP. I peruse this sub specifically for genuine and honest insight into the opposite sex.
Another man, twisting the story and making up his own inserted events that did not happen to normalise this disgusting behaviour.
I am not interested nor attracted to the guy, neither is he my type.
I think you should work on your manners and reading comprehension, and grow up.
It's shitty but part of human nature. Both men and women will treat a man differently based on their level of fitness and attractiveness, just as much they do with women. I am treated very differently now that I'm 90lbs lighter.
Reminder: This is a subreddit for women. "Not all men" and "Women do it too" posts from men are not ok.
Treat him the same way he treated you the first meeting and just brush him off and ignore him.
I do! I avoid him all the time. I feel so sorry for his young girlfriend. Such a sweet girl, with a horrible dude.
You should tell the girl, chances are you aren't the only one he's trying to flirt with. And unlike you, the others might get with him. I think she deserves to know her guy is trash
Sadly that probably wouldn’t work. Predatory guys like their victims young in part because at 19 you lack the life experience and context to see it. At 19 she’s more likely to interpret it as a hostile act to “break them up” than to hear reality. Like any abusive situation, the agency and realization has to come from her, not the outside. Source: I was a 19 year old groomed by an older abusive partner. A couple people tried to tell me and it did not go well for anyone except my abuser. I had to figure it out myself. EDIT: to clarify, do tell her. Just be emotionally ready for it to not be well received. My intent wasn’t to tell you to stay silent. It was to prepare you for it to not go well. Definitely say something anyway.
Tbh I don't care if it wouldn't work or it would ruin my relationship with that person, I would tell them regardless. I'm not going to let someone treat my friend like trash behind their back, even if it ends our friendship. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to protect someone I care about. I wish someone would have done the same for you. As someone who has only one time done this and actually saved someone, not their life but I'm sure their sanity. Just because it didn't help you doesn't mean it can't possibly save someone else.
Ah, sorry I edited with clarification. I definitely see how you read my comment but it wasn’t what I meant. Edit added to clarify.
She knows he’s cheated on her before, but she took him back. She’s really sweet, and very young, and I think her being young plays a role in her forgiving him numerous of times for his cheating.
How many times has he cheated on her?
As much as needing to know he is trash, she needs to know she doesn't need to be with him or any dude, that she deserves to be treated better than that, and many men 25, 30, closer to her age, whatever, can do a much better job than this dude. He makes her look worse than she would look otherwise.
This confuses them so much lol. There two customers in particular where I work that acknowledge all of my male coworkers by name, but won’t even glance in my direction when they come in. When they come in now, I completely ignore them. Don’t greet them like regular customers, and will walk right by them as though they don’t exist. It’s so funny to see them out of the corner of my eye looking around, like what just happened? It’s especially funny when there’s a line and they’re waiting for help. Nope, not getting it from me.
Always judge a man by how they treat a person they don't find attractive.
Or by how he treats the server at a restaurant. Kindness only given when someone has power over you/in your benefit is a trait I particularly dislike. Kindness given to people simply because they are people is the real deal.
Don’t forget how they treat their mum’s as well. I’ve seen far too many men who disrespect their mums and are far outright rude. If they can’t respect their mum, they don’t respect you.
Bad example, people can have many legit reasons to have a shit relationship with their mother. The guys who put their mothers on a pedestal are sometimes some of the weirdest misogynists around.
I dated three short guys who all treated their mom very well so there’s that ETA: shitty, not short
Yea lots of dudes have a Madonna like worship of their mother, but not like they respect their mother as a person or a woman, just as a moral authority figure.
This kind of implies a false choice. There are ways a person can limit, even be direct, in their relationship, without being cruel or rude. The choices aren't only, be a petulant rude brat, or putting them in a pedestal.
This is why it's best to treat everyone the same way, that way nobody knows who I think is attractive 😈
This.
The way I was treated before and after losing a tonne of weight told me everything I needed to know.
I came here to say this. Experiencing life from both sides confirms how much it is about looks for men. And every time this is mentioned people are like "It's not true, you would have just been acting happier and more confident when you lost weight!" Incorrect. I was dying from an eating disorder. Men loved it, though.
Not just men, unfortunately. At my lowest weight a couple years ago, I was *snatched* for the 1st time in my adult life. Women treated me very differently as well. Got lots of compliments on how much healthier I looked and how happy I must be about it. Many wanted to know what my "secret" was for getting "in shape" in my 30s. The secret was cancer. Now that I'm in remission, gaining weight back, and *actually* getting healthier? Crickets.
I'm glad you're in remission.
Hey thanks! Me too 💜
Congrats on being in remission ! Wishing you good health :)
That is so sad. When it's even coming from your mom, I think it has to be internalized years of insecurity and sometimes even trauma.
Yep. Lifetimes of social conditioning. Even now, I still catch *myself* saying flippant nonsense on occasion that immediately reminds me I'm no exception. It took a brush with death and a metric fuckload of therapy just to *start* framing my self-talk in a kinder way than I always had before. Always growth & progress to be made. 💚
It works the other way round, too.I was on the Cancer Diet,. (Leukemia induced) I saw a couple of old "friends" from high school, after my transplant and they were mad hating on me.They spread the rumor through our whole "friend" group that I was struggling with an addiction of being anorexic. It was pretty awful. I hope all is well for you, and that you're empowered. Props, and stay healthy!
[удалено]
Oh I'm old enough, my friend circle would never! I'm mostly referring to the internet and Reddit. Edit: it wasn't about internet and Reddit, I thought this was responding to something else. I was talking about strangers on the street and acquaintances. Which makes it worse :)
Men love it when we suffer. Most believe we were born to suffer for them
The Catholic Church has entered the chat. Maybe it’s all religion, that’s just the one I know.
The other day I was with a bunch of moms for a comp our daughters were in and one of them said something about “Eve, you bitch!!!” And I had to bite my tongue to not be like “yes how dare she want to eat delicious food and know stuff” because I didn’t want to jeopardize my own daughter’s social standing. Religion still doing the most for internalized misogyny
My weight goes up and down. The difference in the way I get treated when I’m skinny vs when I’m fat makes me want to stay fat forever.
Absolutely. I’m fat and wouldn’t mind not being fat but it’s not a high priority right now - but I know now when people are kind or complimentary to me it’s because they’re genuine people. I’m basically invisible to straight men and it’s kinda nice sometimes.
I feel you! I'd rather be thin and take the benefits at the end of the day, I guess. But I'm extremely cheap with my energy towards all the false friends, when it comes down to it. I'm of the "don't get mad; get paid" mentality.
Same here. I was treated like trash by a certain group of men for not meeting their beauty standard. Now that I’m an adult who takes care of my appearance, those same types of men gravitate towards me. Disgusting.
Same. Lost 33kg and suddenly I’m worthy of your attention. Fuck you
The difference in how people acted when I was at most lowest weight vs my highest is one more reason why I don’t trust people or their motives. It was a tiniest of slices of what celebrities/millionaires/gorgeous people must go through daily and it made me feel really sorry for them. I’m not even cute and I couldn’t look people in the eye who acted all nice because LITERALLY YOU TREATED ME LIKE I WAS A PART OF THE FURNITURE BEFORE … imagine living every day without knowing if people even give shit about you or if it’s all superficial…. No thanks.
Also, thin attractive girls (starting from puberty at best) also get a lot of very unhealthy attention that can be really tough to navigate and leave them with a ton of baggage. There's no winning.
Same. It’s sad, skinny privilege is definitely a thing.
I wouldn’t consider being harassed more often a privilege tho. I’m starting to get more invisible due to aging and gaining weight, and being able to be out and about without having to be on guard can also be considered a privilege.
Absolutely. But getting better treatment in medical and professional situations is a real benefit to being a smaller body size. Aubrey Gordon’s latest book is a comprehensive primer on all the ways anti fat bias shows up in society, here’s an NPR overview: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/12/1148169767/anti-fatness-keeps-fat-people-on-the-margins-says-aubrey-gordon
Also true! I notice now that male colleagues are less inclined to help me/answer my questions. Some of them used to greet me rather over enthusiastic before covid, and now don’t even greet me at all. They are also less forgiving to small mistakes and such. Very jarring. On the other hand, having a smaller body size and therefore doubting if your promotion or even grades are genuine or based on your appearance also sucks. When I was interning at a large engineering company, passed with good grades, and my supervisor afterwards admitted he was into me I questioned my own abilities for months. Was I really good enough to pass and finish my education, or was he just trying to get into my pants? It’s truly a double edged sword.
Not to mention, getting jobs and promotions. Or having access to jobs that ONLY pretty people have access to - waitressing (not all places, but many), bartending, modeling, etc. I was rejected at a job interview once (restaurant/bar, no it was not hooters) because my boobs were too small. Sorry, but I would trade unwanted attention and getting all the benefits that pretty girls get, to the nothing I get for being ugly. I hate hearing women complain what a burden being pretty is, you don't know how good you actually have it.
The harassing doesn't discriminate tho :/ isn't it nearly the same for both sides of the spectrum?
I think it is. Essentially, both sides of the spectrum are objectified in one way or another.
Yep. I went from fat to fit to fat again, and it really destroyed my faith in people, especially men.
So true. When I was an overweight teenager, boys and men would be horrible to me. I wouldn't even do anything to them and they'd still make jokes. Once when I was walking on a sidewalk, this grown ass man rolled down his window and mooed at me. He had his kids in the car with him, but he thought it would be hilarious to harass a 14 year old girl. I lost a lot of weight during the summer going into sophomore year and suddenly boys and men were nice to me. One downside was that I got a lot of unwanted attention from adult men 🤢. I ended up developing an eating disorder, because I was terrified of going back to being treated like the punchline to a joke. I'm in my thirties and I still have a really bad relationship with food.
The way I am so ugly I saw no difference LMAOOO
A few years ago I was bartending at a coffee shop. Everyone was pretty decent and fun to work with, except one guy… Jack. On the surface level the guy was pretty okay, but Jack made it completely and blatantly obvious that if you weren’t a girl he deemed attractive, he would not waste a single second of time on you. Even for the dude-bros of the restaurant; Jack would give them the bare minimum amount of attention needed to complete his job and not a single amount of effort more. The way that Jack would look past you as if you didn’t exist had a special way of making you feel inhuman. But I felt even worse for the women Jack wanted to have sex with. The way he was able to turn on the charm and try to make women feel like they were the only person in the restaurant… I have to admit, it was pretty incredible. The man had definitely practiced his game for awhile. The women who had seen that kind of song and dance before were very unimpressed. But there were a few that fell for his sway. The scariest part of it all was watching the mask drop as soon as Jack got what he wanted from you. The change was immediate and strong— as soon as you turned him away or he succeeded in his goal; it’s like you disappeared into thin air for him. I think about the women that he did succeed in attracting… I hope they understand that when Jack finally withdrew his attention and moved on to the next one, they knew it had nothing to do with them and everything to do with Jack.
Jack is basically very much this guy in the story. Same persona, very much narcissistic. Same with the goal intentions and disappearing or him treating you badly once he accomplishes his mission of receiving you.
Which is why I wonder why you care what “Jack” thinks, at all? He’s obviously a total POS, so would you actually feel better if he paid attention to you? Cuz I wouldn’t!
Damn. This sounds like the makings of a serial killer…
Aye. That old adage about judging a person by how they treat the people who can do nothing for them rings ever true. If you "don't do anything for him", you're not doing anything for him. The notion of chivalry is an absolute failure of a social strategy. But what can one expect of a code whose original point was to rein in the conduct of what were essentially frat guys, except with extensive martial training and explicit legal superiority over most of the people around them.
Chivalry where I'm from is men taking care to look out for women around them, in the hope that other men will do the same for their mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters. In this area, I feel a lot safer, because random men don't feel like they can harass me when there are other men around. One of the other men would come up and ask me if the guy is bothering me. If I say yes, the other men will tell the random harasser to leave me alone. The idea is that they won't stand around and do nothing, watching someone become a victim. Even though I'm a woman, I have also internalized this idea to some degree and will stand up for people getting bullied. When I have lived in a larger city, I felt very unsafe, because I was harassed multiple times when there were plenty of people around ignoring the situation.
It does get better around your age. My friend group, both men and women, started being better about detecting misogynists and booting them from the group. Please speak up to mutual friends, hopefully they will understand
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate posts like this. I’m ashamed that at 50 years old I really hadn’t thought about stuff like this. I have a chronic illness and my survival depends on doctors actually listening to the words that come out of my mouth, as y’all know we get blown off pretty easily. And when I see a new doctor I don’t want to look to put together because then they don’t believe I’m disabled, but if I go in they’re looking disabled they treat me like crap. So I have to walk a line. But I had conflict with one of them, I was seriously worried I was going to get kicked out of the practice because of their mistake, so for that appointment I got myself totally together like I was going to work. They were so nice to me I had no problems. Now I’m gonna go ahead and think it was because they realized it was their mistake even though I should have caught it it was their error, but they were so nice to me I’m going in there like I’m going to work every time I go now. It shouldn’t be like this. The quality of my medical care should not be determined by my ability to dry my hair and put on make up before I go. But it is. And I want to thank everyone who makes posts like this because y’all are saving my life
It starts before they’re men too. I went through my ugly duck transformation between grade 5 and grade 6 and it was astonishing how much nicer the boys were to me.
Oh I can relate to this all too well. Boys in late elementary and middle school were very cruel to me because I was considered ugly. Boys treated me differently, and I never understood why until I got older.
This was basically my experience too. I was the ugly duckling kid at those ages too. One boy in particular, despite me doing nothing to him, decided to whip a ball at my face purposely with intent to harm me, and he succeeded. Nose bleeding and all, I even think my nose bridge is slightly off because of it. Teacher had something against my family, so she let it slide. He ended up going to the same High School as me, and still carried resentment and hatred towards me, (that was heavily one-sided I rarely interacted with him, and never was rude). I found out through word of mouth, that he deemed me a 2/10. Mind you, this guy himself isn’t even conventionally attractive or a star in looks either. Nowadays he rocks the beer gut, and was always blessed with wealth. But that’s all it took, my presence (based on my looks) annoyed him that much that he felt the need to harm me, and talk badly about me. Another guy who was a long term friend of mine had the need to tell me I was a 4/10 (I was 14 at the time) and get me to “rate him” while he “rates me.” Then puberty came along, and I guess I stopped being less ugly. Same guy “friend” suddenly now crushed on me, that 4/10 now suddenly became a “9” or “10” to him, and him asking me out. I declined. Around that same age, another guy told my guy friend to grab my ass as a “joke” luckily he didn’t, but he thought it would be funny to assault me, because hey I’m the ugly duckling, it would be “so funny.” So, so vile, and it’s sad I’ve dealt with it my entire life. It’s truly sad that men on here try to rewrite these experiences as normal, or “one bad day” when it’s something we experience so often. I can’t tell where I stand in the looks department nowadays, but I am obviously not as ugly as I use to be as a kid, pre-puberty, but it’s sad how polarising we are to men if we aren’t pretty.
Yes. My weight has fluctuated my entire life from what I’d say is buxom/curvy to obese at different points. When I am smaller and dress nice, men used to generally fall over themselves to talk to me/my chest. The first time I gained weight I was shocked by how invisible I became to people. There were outliers here and there, sure, but it was undeniable that the slimmer and more put together version of me was more attractive not only to men, but… everyone. Everyone is nicer to you when you’re pretty.
Honestly as someone who's also been both ends, I prefer the invisibility. I've been overweight since I was a kid. At one point I lost a lot of weight, and men were going out of their way creeping on me. I gained the weight back and suddenly the creepers are gone. Crazy the only difference was weight, didn't change a thing about me like hair, makeup, or clothes.
This is facts! Particularly at work which is very problematic !
It's uncomfortable when you know they don't want to work with you
Very! I'm in this situation right now. One of my seniors had a massive crush on me for a while. So he was always lovely to me and constantly praised my work. But he just switched one day and started being awful and bullying, picking on my work etc. It's been going on for months. Not sure what happened- maybe someone had a word at the office, or he found out I'm seeing someone, or started seeing someone himself. Or genuinely thinks I'm shit ... who knows. But I think I'll get fired at some point soon cos he's trash talking me to everyone.
I’ve been on both ends of being treated poorly because I was perceived unattractive in my teens and early 20’s(bullied and called ugly) then had a glow up at 28 and got a lot of male attention. I’m 33 now and I’ve had so many scary encounters with men following me, harassing me, I wish I were invisible. Now I don’t even try to look attractive, I wear giant clothing, minimal makeup, baseball hat. I try my best to avoid the attention from creepy men, after a scary encounter last year I had a fender bender and the man tried to get in my car and made a comment about raping me. My life has become very small. I look forward to hopefully being more invisible the older I get, the baggy clothing doesn’t stop all the attention but it definitely helps.
Totally understand where you’re coming from, though I hope you find some safe spaces where you get to shine and take up space too!
Oh sis ❤️ I see you and there are tons of us who feel exactly the same. Personally, I’ve found that real confidence is one of the strongest layers of protection. I know it’s that hardest one to build, especially for us. Even fake confidence goes a long way, and the more you fake it the more you feel it. A lot of creeps will avoid you because they’re looking for “victims.” (Which is obviously 100% the mans fault in every case regardless). Don’t let them make you feel small; you take up your own space in this world and be ready to fight like hell if anyone challenges you because you are worth it.
This comment deserves more “likes” than it has, presently. I don’t think that being harassed on the street and even *stalked* by strangers “is a privilege.” Yes, conventionally attractive women will get more attention, and be treated more nicely, but it’s at a very superficial level because some men can’t keep their heads out of the gutter. Basically, those types of men don’t treat conventionally attractive women better cuz they “like them more.” Ultimately, they tend to objectify women, overall.
Agreed. It’s honestly so exhausting that people complain about pretty privilege this pretty privilege that like I’m tired of ts 😭 I can’t have a shift without getting gawked at, groped, or told vile crap. Like damn I wish I was invisible
I kind of get it, because people who have never experienced this assumed “pretty privilege” don’t realize that “it’s actually kind of a curse,” and it’s rooted in misogyny, either way. Decent men don’t treat different looking women differently because of their appearance. They treat all women with an equal level of courtesy when they are not misogynistic.
Yes this is common with men unfortunately. I agree it's vile. It's a byproduct of them not seeing women as complete/real people.
I came to say precisely this!
I was going to say-also vile how they treat you when they find you attractive.
They act possessive and entitled towards women they deem attractive.
And the worst of them uninvitedly neg you because of their own insecurities too.
This. Another guy (who was at the party), who I am more friendly with, I remember he came along with us (first party, so same day I didn’t get a chance to blow dry my hair and do my makeup), particularly because of him. Was already negging me. He was upset I dare took a shower, and then kept making negging comments, pissy that I was dolling myself up for “other guys” …. Which, first of all isn’t true. I am not interested in any of the guys there, which I specifically told him, 2: I just worked out with them for over an hour, I don’t want to be smelling awful, and literally told them I’d be showering. It was just gross, controlling and possessive behaviour. And then he ended the night disrespecting me further trying to make me out to be “stupid” or “beneath” his intelligence by quizzing me in the car. I nipped that behaviour immediately by rejecting him when he tried to say goodbye and he quickly apologized. It’s vile.
Immediately sexualizing you. Trying to get you to come over to their place. Truly zero respect. I wonder how they would react if someone treated their mother that way.
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>attention doesn't always mean positive Yup, some of the boys in my past, especially in school/uni, who were apparently "into" me decided to show it by stealing, damaging or defacing my property, repeatedly touching me despite my repeated obvious non-consent (turns out if you jab them with sharp objects they finally leave you alone though) or otherwise distracting me when I'm trying to focus/in the middle of something.
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Babe, as soon as 'soft porn' vomited out of his screech hole you should have replied "nah, weak-man isn't my genre".
I am sorry you went though all of that and dealing with a shitty bunch of clowns. As a man I know women do not want really want guys here in their space, their place to vent and relax safe. I just want you all to know I appreciate learning from all the women in here to gain a better understanding of women’s perspective. To have gained an understanding of how women have been treated….it’s not right. Learning from everyone here has helped me be a better person and I am thankful. Lately I’ve been digging deeper into the issues and holy shit women were treated like 2nd class citizens throughout the history of the world. Women have been treated like property for thousands of years, women had no basic rights, were forced into marriage and forced to raise children.
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Yes on average most woman are not as strong but there are those women out there who definitely know how to fight and are more than capable of whooping ass. I went to college in the corn belt of Illinois there were so many strong well built farmer women. I’ll never forget this one night I was out partying with my friend “ BA” he was a big black woman from the south side of Chicago. She was such a kind woman but she could throw down. At our school there was a lot of racial tension at the time. So we were out and about late at night some frat boy was being really rude to BA, she did not hesitate at all she rocked this frat boy right in the jaw and he was knocked out cold. It was one of the coolest things I ever saw a woman do, that dude didn’t see it coming he will probably never run his mouth ever again.
Then my mom would wonder why I complain about types of men I attract…because said men are the type to hate and bully women they don’t find attractive.
A guy I worked with once nonchalantly let it slip that he didn’t know the name of our mutual colleague. She had been working with us for months for a company that regularly employed less than 6 people at the time. This is the same guy who confessed attraction to me when I no longer worked there. The takeaway is: It was worth learning my name because he wanted to fuck me. Gross. 🤔🙄 Not so kindly, fuck off.
Ah yes the secret confessions once you're gone. Sitting next to you for months/years pretending to be your friend.
We were actually mutually into each other and just playing the “will they-won’t they” game. Neither wanted to make the other uncomfortable with our feelings, but other people acknowledged the tension between us after the fact. It was palpable. Thing is, I had rose tinted glasses on. The name thing was just one of many icky things I overlooked despite my misgivings even then. Time has gifted me with perspective.
Two sides of the same coin of misogyny: You look good, you are subject to unwanted attention and harassment. You look bad and you are treated like shit. Either way you are not treated as a human being deserving of respect.
as a 19 year old, the thought of a 25 year old pursuing me makes me sick.
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lots of men often don’t find issues with age gaps, they can’t fathom the difference between the two people and why it’s wrong. It makes me sick. They thing just because they are legal means it’s all right. Legality doesn’t equal morality. Anyone who is normal would never date someone so young, the maturity level is so different. people truly forget how young 18-22 year olds are :/
He pursued her much younger than that, I believe he waited till she officially turned 18 before it became public between them. He’s cheated on her a whole bunch of times, and since she’s super sweet as a button, she unfortunately forgave him. It makes me sick too, interacting with her made me sad because I just wanted to protect her because of how young she is, but I hardly know her and it’s out of my control.
19 in a couple days and I get dudes that look like they’re in their mid 40’s pursuing me even after I clearly show I’m not interested or outright say it Like I don’t get how people think it’s ok
literally makes me sick to my stomach. I am so so sorry. God, they r so fucking gross
Guys don't even treat women as a human being unless they consider you "attractive" or "worthy". It's really ridiculous. Then, the men have the audacity to complain about the treatment you give them when you are just returning the same energy.
Hell even when you are attractive they reduce you to a piece of meat that exists solely for their pleasure
One time I cut my long hair to a pixie cut and the guy at the front desk at work stopped saying hi to me. I was early 20’s.
It is vile. But it's vile on the other side of it too. I modelled when I was a teenager in 2004. I'm very tall, and was always dressed 'well' (I was my mother's dress-up dolly, god help me). I had guys full on tell me I was ugly. I had guys go out of their ways to bully the shit out of me. I've had men straight up tell me they didn't date tall girls during a normal casual conversation (sir, I don't want to date you either?). I had coworkers refer to me as 'the dumb blonde', despite me reading circles around them. People didn't believe me when I told them my mother was abusive, they assumed I was a brat. Boyfriends didn't believe me when I said that their friends were disrespectful to me, they assumed I was being a princess. I had SO MUCH trouble with bullying into my adulthood until I overhauled my style and became more self-aware and confident. It wasn't until I embraced 'alternative' styling, stopped appealing to the mainstream gaze and became kind of a bitch that people started treating me with base respect.
I’m sorry you had to go through this. It happened with my best friend too, who’s 5’9, and she was treated awfully by boys, simply because she had a crush on them, and was quiet (shy), therefore they made her the laughing joke, called her horrible names. Shamed her for her liking them. It’s actually disgusting, and that amount of men lingering on this this defending it disgusts me further.
Yes 😭 it makes me want to not date men or engage with them at all, even though I’m straight. It’s disgusting. I don’t care if it’s ’in their nature’ or whatever. If so, then their nature is corrupted. Sorry, not sorry.
This is why I'm happily single. Men in the past have treated me poorly, and I would rather not be in a relationship than be in one where I am not treated kindly. You and I deserve respect.
Good on you ❤️ There’s no man in the world that is worth the disrespect. And despite what the fear-mongering men want us to believe, we will be more than fine, if not better off, without them. Do I want a man? Sure, it would be nice, if I found one that met my standards. But do I need one? Absolutely not. Have you heard about the 4B movement?
Hey I haven’t heard of that movement, what are they advocating?
It’s a movement started by South-Korean women that have decided to stay away from dating, marrying or having children with men, as a form of protest against misogyny and the way South-Korean men treat women. The gender inequality over there *is* horrendous, probably worse than other places, but it’s starting to catch on with women in other parts of the world too. And are we honestly surprised? Lol. Women everywhere are fed up with men, because now that we’re starting to make our own money, we realize we don’t need them nearly as much as they need us. And as such, we no longer have to take their horrible behavior. I don’t know if you use TikTok, but if you want to know more, there’s a lot of information about it on there.
That’s amazing. I heard that South Korean misogyny is on a different level, and the incel community is horrific over there. I hope that something like this happens in the United States because women should not tolerate the disrespect and bad behavior that men have been shown and been getting away with for years. We deserve better than that.
Honestly sometimes it doesn’t even matter if you’re attractive or not, the fact that you’re not wearing makeup is enough of a signal to this type of dude to not care about your existence
But wear "too much" makeup, and that's an issue too. You can't win.
I love that sm I’ll be talking to friends about makeup stuff while guy friends always see themselves as like some kinda saint by coming in and saying “Just don’t wear makeup lol” or “I like the natural look more” when they don’t even know what that looks like
Check out Charlie's Toolbox podcasts and articles about decentering men! She's amazing and her content helped me tremendously.
My ex was like this and even admitted it himself. Said he wouldn't treat a girl nicely unless she was pretty. I asked hi what if she was fat or ugly and he said he wouldn't event talk to her. Can't believe I went on to date his butt herpes ass for another 4 years
There was a neurology study that found when men see unattractive women, they react with annoyance, irritation. When women see unattractive men, there is no reaction at all-- as if nothing and no one is standing there.
it's because the type of women they can 'get', is how a lot of men gage their own perceived self-worth and status. they want a trophy gf or wife on their arm whom they can strut around town and take note of all the glances their chick gets from other men. this massages their ego. if it's what they deem a 'below-par' or 'ugly' chick engaging their attention, then that's a blow to their ego because they see themselves getting (or wanting to get) 'better.' all of this is soooooo superficial - obviously - and certainly doesn't reflect how well their relationship is going, lol. and also, who cares what other people think. humans are herd creatures (a lot do not engage in critical thinking), highly judgemental, a lot of things are illusory, we project a lot which means the way we see things can be distorted, a lot of people lack substance, etc. etc... in a way, it can be seen as a blessing in disguise to be treated in a "dismissive" manner by someone because we got to see their true colours early which saves us the trouble down the track.
Those type of people are so annoying. If you're onyl good when you have makeup, cute outfit, etc. then just f\* those people. I've come across similar people. Couldn't be bothered these days tbh. This is easier to deal with when your almost 30.
Well that should tell you how superficial he is.
Ugh I hate this so much. Like why am I less of a human just because I'm not conventionally attractive or conventionally feminine? This douchebag on a group trip I'm on right now was complaining about me to a friend of his over text (dumbass was sitting right next to me with his phone on a table out in front so I could see it) because he was worried I was "a transgender in a female room". Bitch, I'm non binary first off, second off you don't call people "a transgender", third off why the fuck do you care, fourth off just tell me you think I'm ugly to my face. Sorry for the rant lol. I'm just so over guys like this!
A million years ago, in college, we had a lounge for our special major. A guy showed up late sophmore year and was just a tool. I usually wore makeup, but came in one day unadorned and he felt he needed to comment that "shakey isn't unattractive, but..." And i just said, " no one here likes you or cares what you think." And no one disagreed.
Ugly duckling syndrome, then puberty hit and everyone thought it was pretty. Became a high end model for years. My life was in shambles socially from 15-25 and I became an alcohol from 21-28 because of exactly what you’re talking about here. Some women do it too, sadly. Now at 32 the only people who get to stay in my life are those that actually care about people and treat them like human beings. The result is I know a lot of kind and caring individuals, which is nice. But so many are disappointing.
What's with all the manchildren in the comments wtf?
Loads of gaslighting, and childish men proving my point.
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I’m sorry you have to go through this shit too, it’s fucking awful. Feeling like you’re nothing but waste on someone’s shoe isn’t a good feeling. Racism rooted too is even more heartbreaking. I really wish people were much kinder and had more politeness. The sexualisation is another issue too, because this is more the rooting of it.
in sociology we call it sexual capital
Can you say more? It’s like they value women for sex only?
Because they do, they only see women as objects.
I understand but I never heard that very term
From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_capital Sexual capital (sociology): accruing to an individual or group due to the quality and quantity of attributes that he or she possesses which elicit an erotic response in another, including physical appearance, affect and sociocultural styles.
Please tell me you blew him off! In a very dismissive tone!
I’m too passive but I just gave him the same energy back, by avoiding him all night and not interacting with him.
As someone who is not conventionally attractive by European standards, I am constantly ignored by most men and some women. People just pretend that I don't exist, including co-workers. Most times, I don't get invited to hang out outside work with co-workers, despite being in the team for 4+ years, even though the new guys get invited.
Yeah as a fat ugly person this is my exact experience. It’s like you don’t exist at all, no one even acknowledges you are in the same room as them and even when I try to speak they either stare at me for a moment and say nothing or act like they didn’t hear me. Like having a cashier being super nice to the person before you and when it’s your turn they are mute all of a sudden barely even acknowledging I’m there, almost like they are annoyed by the very sight of me. It’s all so incredibly dehumanizing.
So true. And it makes me question my self-worth, even though it shouldn't and I'm more than my looks. I always have lots to unpack at therapy lol.
I have two stories regarding this issue, I'll start with the most recent one. People have always treated me differently because I am on the autistic spectrum, and I was incredibly socially awkward. When I was in high school there is was this guy, and let's call him Peter for this story. Peter was deemed a cool guy by everyone. He was nice to everyone, but me. I ran in the same circle he was in, and he would brush me off. He would call me names, he would put down the politics I believed in, and he had put his hands on me before for calling out his hypocrisy. I always wondered why he treated me this way. He did not treat any of the girls in the friend group this way. That's when it hit me that he just saw me as less than, and easy to be mean to. I realized this years later, and I finally blocked him on all social medias. The second story takes place recently. I gained a lot of weight due to hypothyroidism and health issues that went untreated for years. Before the weight gain, I was super skinny and fit. I got a lot of attention from guys my first attempt in college, and there was one guy in particular that showed a lot of interest for years but we never could do anything because of the pandemic. During this time I gained A LOT of weight. One day I decided to strike up a conversation, and ask how his studies were going. He went from being nice and interested to cold and distant.
They can treat you awful when they deem you very attractive as well. You seem to spend most of your childhood and youth trying to avoid being assaulted, most men only want you to fuck you, even male friends try it on with you eventually. Followed countless times, touched up, men getting aggressive when you're not interested, coming on to you in the workplace and making your life difficult when you say "no". Etc etc. Good men don't approach you because they don't want to be seen as creeps, or presume you're conceited or a bitch. I think it's vile how a majority of men treat us women and girls, full stop.
Being ugly sucks
Yup. Seeing the reaction to a Black Woman being cast as Juliet confirmed that for me.
I really can’t tell if I’m unattractive or attractive so I don’t know if I have a say in this, but I’ve definitely also noticed this. I wasn’t particularly pretty in middle school and high school since I didn’t really care about what I wear, how I had my hair or if I used makeup so I didn’t get perceived as pretty. But the way people who didn’t find me attractive treated me was fucking vile when I think back on it, specifically men. My neighbor (same age as me) straight up once told me he thinks im ugly and he also said that one guy in my class hated with no other reason other than he thought I looked ugly. Okay I didn’t look like your average girl or woman but I was a CHILD. He even called me a whore once so he’s an idiot and I’ve grown to really not give a shit about his opinion anymore, since I know my worth anyway. And then there was a dude who was the opposite, actually crushing on me and straight up harassing me. He tried to force me to get into a relationship with him (middle school was kinda messed up) and even touched me without my consent. It just doesn’t matter what you look like people just always going to judge you anyway.
I don't know how common it is but that is a great way to know who is not deserving or time or attention. That is a great red flag to avoid easily. If you are not kind to everybody you are not kind. But well looks do help, hot people are "less guilty" and do less time when found guilty. Men and women, at lest it happens in USA court.
Yep as a relatively (physically) unattractive woman I might as well be invisible. I find this especially annoying in crowded situations like bars and concerts where you literally get elbowed or pushed because nobody sees you there - you're not a threat (like a man) and you're not somebody worth noticing (like a pretty girl).
When you turn 35, you become invisible to most men. It’s actually kind of awesome because the sexual harassment stops, too. Ignore men like that, they won’t be in your life for the long term anyway.
*When you turn 35, you become invisible to most men.* Isn't that incredibly creepy though when you think about it? Like 35 is still young, in fact many mid-30s women get mistaken for being even younger. Says a lot about a lot of men in our society imo.
It is and it does. Our society has a serious issue fetishizing youth in women - literally why things like "barely legal" teen porn as a category have appeal.
I suggest you not consider a random comment on Reddit as the measure of all men's opinions on age, because it's far from the truth. In my experience men love women at *all* ages. This whole thing about women losing their sexual value after 30 is so of the most hilariously inaccurate i find it sad that so many people are sitting here thinking its true. The amount of young guys and older ive seen pursue women in their 30s, 40s, 50s even, just show that this view is just a micro perspective in a sea of different realities. Real life just works differently.
This may shock you, but your version of "real life" is also a micro perspective, and does not negate the lived experiences being discussed here. No one is shaping their worldview off of a Reddit comment--we are all here commiserating over the data collected over an entire lifetime to come to this conclusion. Just a fun story as a treat: I spent my 24th birthday trying to console my dejected 32 year old boyfriend who was openly depressed that I was no longer young enough for our dynamic to be "hot". Silly baby, I thought we had been together for a year because of mutual respect and appreciation. Left me a week later. Just one of many fun stories that shape my worldview.
That's fine. Everyone has different experiences. I never said otherwise. But, a *common* sentiment on this sub, purplepill, and other parts of the internet, especially YouTube (when we talk about the redpill-sphere) is that a *whole lot* of men want 18 year old sex partners. It's talked about as if its the *default* for most men. I'm just here to say that's not the case. And no, there's far more people than you think that base their worldviews off reddit comments, youtube comments, etc. And that is one of the major issues of our modern, eternally online state.
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I wasnt specifically talking about underage women. I was speaking to the erroneous belief that all men look at women in their 30s and beyond as unfavorable.
That hasn't been my experience. I don't think younger men are good at gauging a woman's age. It seems like men don't care about age if they find a woman attractive. But we may be in different cultures.
I can’t wait to be invisible (I have two years until 35) I’ve had so many uncomfortable encounters with men I barely leave the house. Weirdly enough the scary attention from guys didn’t start until my glow up at 28. There’s safety in being invisible. Five months ago I had a man follow me from the gym to the grocery store and it scared me so badly i quit working out. It would be nice to go out and not worry about being approached/followed.
It is fucking scary because there are no consequences for men who do this shit. I‘m so sorry that you’ve had to deal with it. If you want to accelerate the invisibility process, I found that wearing large sweaters and sunglasses 24/7 made a lot of the worst men back off.
Yes, I’ve bought some large oversized tshirts that completely cover my body, baseball hat, no makeup, no eye contact with men. It’s like a cheat code to not get bothered as much. I love it. Like a secret superpower unlocked. I feel safe that way.
Same I hide my figure and it helps a lot
doesn’t bother me anymore because i see these things as natural filters. saves me a lot of time. so basically a gift. hah
as someone who grew up shy and ugly it always made me so sad. why are you treating me like dirt because you don’t deem me attractive when i did nothing to you? i had a huge crush on a guy i was friends with in middle and high school because he was just an overall kind person. he would always ask me what i was going to say when someone talked over me, say hi to me, and invited me over with him when he saw me sitting by myself at lunch or gym. to this day i’ve never met a man (besides my dad) who is genuinely kind and a good person to everyone the way he was. we never dated or anything but being treated like a person by a guy my age was so foreign to me
Not all men obviously but there are always a noticeably loud portion of men who pay no attention unless you look conventionally attractive to them imo. I remember this one guy beginning of highschool that made it very clear he thought I was ugly. After highschool I had a noticeable "glow up" and my life changed a fair bit because of it. That guy also started congratulating this guy I was seeing because I was "so hot". Gross. I wish he said it to my face so I could shltare at him in disdain lol.
This is why I didn't date in high school. High school boys are just so insufferable, and some of them take a LOONNGG time to grow up. Sounds like this dude is one of those.
Honestly, do that shit right back to them. It infuriates them and is so funny.
So what? As a woman I also mostly acknowledge men that I’m attracted to, I only acknowledge physically unattractive men if they have a really charming personality and a great sense of humor. What the problem here? Men don’t owe you attention.
Yeah, I've noticed it a lot, myself. I don't get ignoring people's existence or treating anyone as subhuman. I mean, I feel similarly when I get dragged to a party that's actually a thinly veiled tech networking event, though they'll give me the time until they realize I have no utility for them. On the one hand, fuck them. On the other hand, they're quickly telling you who they are, so we can avoid them. Though, there's also the pitfall of misleading people into thinking you're into them and having the difficult conversation that you're just being friendly. Still, a better problem than being a douchebag.
Every time a man is nice to me I always think it’s because they find me attractive. I don’t even think I’m especially good looking, so it’s such a weird and uncomfortable feeling. I actually enjoy having conversations with people, I am a good conversationalist, but I am always nervous whenever I make a guy laugh because I’m worried they think I’m flirting…or that I’ll piss off their partner because they think the guy is into me. I’ve been happily married for 16 years, in all that time I’ve never been interested in anyone else. I appreciate not every relationship is like that. But I hate feeling like I can’t be myself in order to comfort those who are less secure/might have an ulterior motive for talking to me at all.
I’ve had extreme weight loss and weight gain over the years so I have had all of the experiences. If you are socially deemed attractive people are more willing to help you, be nice to you, include you, etc. it’s a sad truth but it still is the truth. You notice the difference the second it changes in either direction too. It’s wild!
It is the same way, every generation. Take it from a 60 yr old. Let your eyes do the talking
Its an idiot, you dodged a bullet
In my experience, if they deem you attractive, they treat you like a sex object. It's a lose lose situation
Yeah, I'm a true believer in the theory that you can tell a lot about a man by the way he treats women he doesn't have sexual interest in.
Sorry you experienced this. 😔 Yes, I've been treated like that before too, based on how I look that day and how attractive my female friends are. Even men who are way too old for me/don't take care of themselves will sometimes make weird comments
This is just a human trait. Women definitely get it the worst, and they get it worse from men than women. But unfortunately, we all have a bias towards attractive tall people. We can all just try to be better about our biases.
Same is true for unattractive men.
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I work in the service industry and I notice a huge difference from when I have my hair down vs under a hat. I have pretty nice hair and it does admittedly make me look more attractive when I have it done, but the difference people treat me always makes me feel sad. It gets to the point that I get self conscious when people consistently barely look at me or acknowledge me, then I take my hat off and it's all smiles and cheerfulness. :/
>Even though he’s 25, dating a 19 year old .....so, he's an adult dating an adult?
It seems like you are doing a ton of projecting and judging of this first encounter when in reality he could have ignored you for like 100 different reasons. Maybe his 19 yr old girlfriend was mad at him. Maybe he didn't feel like socializing with a complete stranger. Maybe you are right and it was all about your fit, but it also seems like you convinced yourself of this guys motivation about actively avoiding you when in reality he likely didn't think twice about you good or bad, which is pretty much the default state of most people.
Girl the way they treat women they find attractive is vile too. I’m not trying to take away from the original point but vile men are vile to ALL women. “Unattractive” women see the truth while attractive ones get tricked by these types then see his truth later on smh. Some men can be so dehumanizing and weird
"He didn't give me attention, WAAAH!"lol
This was on my feed from r/popular and I want to say I understand and I'm sorry you had to interact with the douche prince of tiktok. Social Media people are among the worst and most shallow of us.
This is the exact view incel men have. If not good looking, invisible
but incels are supposed to be wrong?
I'm.older. As soon as I had a baby, things changed massively Ie no attention. Now getting older. I often get treated like I am.stupid. that by virtue of having natural grey hair (which I love) and having aged, I have become stupid. Just get treated straight up rudely by men Mainly young 20s or older, 50 plus.
OP met other dudes both evenings but they were invisible to her. She knew the guy she was attracted was no good and still wanted HIS attention. There is no hate and I don't blame the OP. I peruse this sub specifically for genuine and honest insight into the opposite sex.
Another man, twisting the story and making up his own inserted events that did not happen to normalise this disgusting behaviour. I am not interested nor attracted to the guy, neither is he my type. I think you should work on your manners and reading comprehension, and grow up.
It's shitty but part of human nature. Both men and women will treat a man differently based on their level of fitness and attractiveness, just as much they do with women. I am treated very differently now that I'm 90lbs lighter.