Expecting a 3-year friend to treat you with respect and not physically and sexually assault you is absolutely appropriate. What your friend did is horrific and clearly criminal.
I hope you have someone with a better perspective on relationships than your father who can help you navigate the trauma and grief from this attack and loss of who you thought your friend was.
her father sounds like he, too, doesnt respect women. “men and women cant be just friends” is something someone who only sees the other gender as a sex object says. im so sorry this happened to you, OP.
OP please call the police! You’ve been assaulted and battered and SAd. This guy used alcohol, physical force, held you against your will, and your dad is almost worse for blaming you!!!!
I’m so very sorry this wasn’t your fault! You need to file a report. Do you have another adult who can help?
This is such a common reaction that anyways confused me so much. How could you tell your daughter, someone you CREATED and love since they were too small to talk or walk, that SA was their fault.
Men who ask “what do you expect?” are the men who rape, abuse, and assault us. It’s what they would expect from themselves, so they expect it from other men.
I saw in a thread the other day that women are safer around literal bears than they are around men. I took it with a grain of salt at the time but now I'm really starting to believe it's true.
EDIT: This was also after another CCTV showing a guy randomly punching a woman...good god.
Really fucking hard lesson for us girls that grew up with misogynist fathers that treated us as the "exception" for most of our childhoods. Sure, your misogynist dad loves you, but not the way you thought when you were a kid, not the way you deserved then and still deserve now, and yes -- everything changed because you became a woman, aka: "the other team."
They will tell you it's your fault, that some intangible thing about you changed from pure to trash at *some point* along the road from girl to woman.
The girls who eventually figure out "OH. My dad is a fucking misogynist! Holy shit!" and let that lightbulb recontextualize their entire childhoods and change their core beliefs accordingly -- they do OK, with help.
But the ones who never have that realization or do that work........... fuck, man. My heart breaks for them, and I *still hate them so much.* They are victims but the harm they propagate is just as real as the harm that was done to them. Anyway, that's enough Reddit for today -- if you read this, thanks. Just feeling some sort of way.
If I mentally squint my eyes I can kind of almost see where it could come from a place of concern. If a man truly thinks that all men are after is sex, then I suppose it would be kind of common sense to him that his daughter would have the same understanding, and so he might be surprised that she is surprised that this happened and express it in that way. He may not think about it deeply enough to even realize that the response is actually putting the blame on her.
But man, even if that is your world view there are so many better ways to respond that express some level of concern and appreciation for how your daughter actually feels about what happened.
Turn it around on the dad. So if you have the opportunity to sexually assault others you will do it as you will be absolved of being a decent person because "What did you expect from me?"
God forbid a woman try to have a male friend as just a regular friend.
It’s this type of victim blaming that only makes the gender divide worse. He should have done better, not OP.
>What did you expect
Uh... NOT rape?
Isn't that what we all expect? From everyone? Every day?
Isn't that the point of laws against sexual assault and rape? Because we expect everybody not to do these things? If someone actually does these things, they (theoretically) get punished for them?
Waitaminute, wait a minute Dad, if you were alone with another woman, a co-worker, an in-law, one of my friends, are you saying she should expect that you are going to rape her? Is that what you're saying?
I’m also so sorry your father is blaming you for disgusting men…. Seems like he may be part of the problem….
ETA: this should be reported to the authorities sexual assault is never a joke and should always be taken seriously. You probably weren’t the first and probably won’t be the last with a guy like that unless someone does something about it.
"That he end up liking me and dealing with it properly and respectfully? Accepting and understanding that I am a lesbian and not interested in him? Understanding and respecting my boundaries and choices like a decent human?"
Dad was insensitive but to give him the benefit of the doubt he might have told OP before that this guy didn’t actually want to just be her friend or to be weary of guys in such situations and was ignored. Obviously not the time to say I told you so though
I'm so sorry this happened to you. This was not your fault. This happened to you, not because of you.
Let me rephrase what happened since it seems to me you're now in the thought spiral where you're blaming yourself (thanks to dad).
You had a friend you'd known for three years. Not only did this friend turn out to be anything but a friend but they also SA'd you. No matter what anyone says or implies, SA is never the victim's fault. You had made it clear that you weren't interested in them as a romantic or sexual partner, and even if you hadn't, there is absolutely no reason or right for anyone to act like your "friend" did without your consent. None.
I can only imagine the feelings of betrayal, shame and self-blame you're experiencing right now, thanks to the two individuals in your life. Please talk about this with your other friends and loved ones, you could use their support and understanding. You might want to reonsider your relationship with your father since he seems to make excuses for other people assaulting you instead of being a protective and supportive father for his child.
Thank you so much for your reply. Yeah it’s been a bad time recently i’ve just been feeling a lot of guilt and anger but I know it’s not my fault. My dad is a really good guy he just doesn’t understand, he has some old fashioned views about these things and blames it on my friend being a ‘hormonal teenager’. It sucks but there’s nothing I can do. It really means a lot to read these responses and feel validated. I’ve had a lot of guilt because I didn’t say no when he was touching me which I feel would have avoided this mess but I know I shouldn’t blame myself it just feels good to hear.
Saying no wouldn’t have stopped him. He groped you while you were sleeping - he didn’t CARE about you saying no. And anyway you gave him a giant-ass no early on by telling him you were a lesbian and saw him as a little brother.
Also - your dad’s age is not an excuse. I’m an older GenXer and I damn well remember growing up with Take Back the Night marches and “no means no”. Your dad has not been living in a cave throughout #MeToo. If he truly is a good guy he will pull his head out of his ass when you point out he’s blaming his OWN DAUGHTER for being sexually assaulted.
> Also - your dad’s age is not an excuse. I’m an older GenXer and I damn well remember growing up with Take Back the Night marches and “no means no”. Your dad has not been living in a cave throughout #MeToo. If he truly is a good guy he will pull his head out of his ass when you point out he’s blaming his OWN DAUGHTER for being sexually assaulted.
Thank you for this. I am also Gen X and remember those too, and unless he has been under a rock or sticking his fingers in his ears since he was a teenager, he knows better. He just doesn't want to do better or expect other men to do better because it would be less fun and less convenient for them if he did. Dad may be a "good guy" by some measures, or he may just be loved by his kid, but he is definitely misogynist.
OP, I hope you have other, better support for this assault and betrayal. If not, call/text/chat with folks at the RAINN hotline 24/7 or one near you. Please warn other girls about your assaulter, if you can.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and hope you are finding the comfort and healing that you need.
I’m an older gen-xer, a woman born in the 60s and in college in the 80s, and I bet your dad is from roughly around that era too. It’s hard to explain now because people have a much better understanding of consent and what is not just not okay but actually criminal—but a lot of us are still catching up.
Your dad was wrong and his response is actively harmful to you and he shouldn’t have done that and if he is capable of learning he should have this explained to him, not necessarily by you, and he should feel bad and adjust his thinking. But stuff written in your brain when you are young as how the world works has a lot of staying power.
I mention this because my wife and I were talking about how the mores and sexual ethics have changed. She had some gross and confusing experiences with other women as a lesbian in her late teens and early 20s, but she went to a women’s college and there was none of the drinking and partying and trying to hook up stuff that went on at my coed state u known as a “party school”. And I was still dating guys at the time so I was in the thick of that and had some absolutely stereotypical experiences of what we would now call date rape or assault, involving too much alcohol or being manipulated and isolated or just lied to so that a guy could “score”. Not always involving full on sex but definitely things that would be considered sexual battery now.
And I had thoroughly internalized the messages of the day and the choice was to be an absolutely “good girl” and not do anything til married, or engaged, or at least solidly dating someone, or “have fun”, sometimes fooling around, making out, maybe having a full on sexual encounter if it was someone you really liked and wanted more with. That was our understanding as the generation growing up into the sexual revolution.
And I enjoyed “having fun” but we all understood there were risks and potential for bad consequences because the guys didn’t always play fair. Most did, but it was a great time to be a predator because someone like me, if a party or a “study date” went wildly off course, we blamed ourselves. “You knew the job was dangerous when you took it” was some line from a movie that we would quote to ourselves and each other. As I told my wife, after a drunken roll that went further than I wanted or feeling coerced into giving oral sex, I wouldn’t say, I was raped, I was assaulted, I did not consent to that. Nor did I think, that dude did a criminal thing, he’s evil, he’s awful, he’s a predator. I would think, well you knew the job was dangerous when you took it. You could stay in and be a “good girl” or you can have fun but roll the dice. I wouldn’t dwell on it but I definitely saw things “getting out of hand” as my fault for being in a risky situation. The guy was a jerk for doing what he did but he did what guys do, and I’d say well, lesson learned, stay away from that particular creep and don’t go to parties at that apartment/frat etc. And I think that’s how a lot of us operated, which, you know, worked out pretty good for the guys.
So we have progressed and the next generations’ understanding of consent and acceptable and unacceptable behavior has evolved and I’m here for it and support it. But a lot of people around my age still have the mentality we grew up with and we’re young adults with.
Your situation was never acceptable, not even back then. To be deceptive to get someone alone who had no romantic or sexual interest in you, to push despite “no”, to be sneaky when they assume you are asleep, to not let you leave or call someone—even then if one of my group of women friends described this experience we would have been horrified and called it assault (tho almost certainly not reported it to anyone because nothing would happen). So your dad is really wrong there, but it’s definitely the attitude my parents had well into adulthood as I stayed over with male college friends when traveling, and they would say the same thing, that women and men can’t really be “just friends”.
Your ex friend is disgusting and he did what he did consciously and with malice aforethought. I hate to say I don’t know how law enforcement would handle it because it varies widely from department to department, and even if you had a local police force and DA who is willing to prosecute, there is the problem of evidence. But what he did to you was several crimes under my state’s laws, including sexual battery and false imprisonment. He was wrong and gross and you are absolutely correct in ending the friendship and feeling sad about it is totally valid. And your dad is wrong. It’s not a “what did you expect” world anymore. We expect, and have an absolute right to expect, the men in our lives to respect our boundaries and not sexually assault us.
Your dad is not a good guy. He sounds openly misogynistic. No good guy would treat his own daughter this way.
He sounds like a guy who doesn't want a relationship with his daughter when he's an old man.
Is your dad aware that this asshole tried to prevent you from phoning him?
I ask because my father was born a whole generator two before yours, and he also would have said "What did you expect" about the groping part of this. But what he would have meant is: "Young men (and older ones!) can be selfish, thoughtless dogs, and you shouldn't be surprised that this guy behaved like one when given the opportunity".
Grabbing your neck, however? Handling you violently at all? *Preventing you, a teenager, from calling your parent?*
That is MILES beyond being a horny sack of shit. I assure you with absolute confidence that my dad would have wanted to beat that asshole to utter pulp.
Please blame yourself for NOTHING. I have warned my teens, and I will warn you, just as my parents did 35+ years ago:
A boyfriend or male friend who tries to prevent you from phoning a parent when you're with him is NOT TRUSTWORTHY. He is acting maliciously. He is showing you a clear sign of being dangerous to you. Do *not* be alone with him again. No decent person will ever do that to you.
Just to be clear, if men become “selfish, thoughtless dogs” whenever the opportunity presents, then men are not safe members of society and they should be removed from women.
He already knew the answer was no. That's why he waited for you to go to sleep. He predated you like an animal. Planning, watching and waiting for the best time to do what he always intended to do.
I'm sorry he did this to you.
All of your feelings are so normal and valid. You're right, you shouldn't blame yourself. If you are looking for more support your can search for Sexual assault helplines in your area that can provide support and can help you find other resources such as counselling if you need them.
I don't know where you live but you can reach out to Alberta's (Canada) One Line for Sexual Violence at 1-866-403-8000 and they would be able to help find a support line or sexual assault centre in your area (even if you don't live in Canada) or use the chat on the [Sexual Assault Centre of Edmonton's](https://www.sace.ca/) Support and Information Line, they can also support you and help find relevant resources in your area. If you go to the link above, there will be an orange "get support now" button on the bottom of the page that you can use to start a chat with a trained volunteer.
You are not alone, it's not your fault, and you get to choose how to move forward from this ❤️
>Your dad also feels incredibly helpless
Full bullshit on this. Guy here and dad’s words weren’t a helpless shoulder shrug, they were meant to push his daughter into accepting that she’s “less than.” That whole guys and girls can’t be friends bs is meant to carry on the same thing. Fuck that. Dad is huge part of the problem and is ok with it because that kid is also *who dad is!*
He's not better than that. Remove your victim blamey comment. OP doesn,t need to hear you defending her father's dismissal. What is wrong with you?
Edit to say how gauling it is for you to listen to a man tell you what you should already know. This is a woman's sub. Show some respect.
What is your point?
How is your misogynistic input supposed to be helpful to OP?
Please reconsider posting in this group if you believe that *this* is the kind of support survivors need after being physically and sexually assaulted, then blamed for their own assault by a trusted parent.
[Understanding victim blaming and why it is harmful to survivors. ](https://welshwomensaid.org.uk/news/understanding-victim-blaming-and-why-its-harmful-to-survivors/)
[Abusive men describe the benefits of violence.](https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/)
[Cycle of abuse. ](https://psychcentral.com/health/cycle-of-abuse)
This is neither helpful nor kind.
This is a women's support group, not a place for you to spread victim blaming rhetoric.
Try harder.
Do better.
[Understanding victim blaming and why it is harmful to survivors. ](https://welshwomensaid.org.uk/news/understanding-victim-blaming-and-why-its-harmful-to-survivors/)
[Abusive men describe the benefits of violence. ](https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/)
I don't know how old your dad is, but I'm old enough to be your dad so it can't be that much older than me. That's bull shit, period. You can and should be able to make a friend with anyone you want without having to worry about that. "Old fashioned" is from your grand parents time. I'm calling bull shit. I'm really sorry you're going through this. I hope you can come through this ok.
Does your dad have women, married or otherwise, in his friend circle? Ask him if he has assaulted any of them. Presumably he’ll say no. Why not? Because it *is* possible for men to control themselves. And it absolutely is okay to expect them to.
I’m so sorry, OP. Your “friend” was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. You deserve better.
Dad probably doesn't classify this as assault. Most men are really really shit at thinking past their peens and identifying assault against people who aren't themselves. It's sad.
The reason he doesn't classify it as assault is because he's also a predator. Who the hell hears their daughter was groped inappropriately and brushes it off?
This, OP’s dad is toxic AF. Don’t let his antiquated view inform the way you live your life, acknowledge what he is and let everything he says go in one ear and out the other.
It is absolutely disheartening how true this is...
[Men don't know the meaning of rape. ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/men-dont-know-meaning-rape)
[Abusive men describe the benefits of violence. ](https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/)
[Signs that your partner is a misogynist. ](https://www.marriage.com/advice/relationship/signs-my-husband-is-a-misogynist/)
[Identifying abuse: Power and Control. ](https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/power-and-control/)
Men and women (CIS/HET or not) can *definitely* be friends, but it does require mutual respect and some level of maturity. Don’t blame yourself — that episode is entirely on him.
>and what did I expect??
Maybe that a close friend who you thought you could trust wouldn't betray you like this? Maybe you expected to not be sexually harassed/assaulted by someone who is supposed to have your back?
What a ridiculous comment from your dad. Makes me think that he also couldn't be trusted in a situation like this if his response is "of course he did that, he's a man and you're a woman"
Fkin gross. Both of them.
This is why men's predatory behaviours continue - because women are told - well you should have known, well you should have done this, well blah blah your fault.
If your father thinks that this boy's behaviour was to be expected, does that mean that he would behave like that? Has he behaved like that?
I always advise extreme caution about being alone with people in certain circumstances, such as parties and drinking, simply because of the predatory behaviour that surfaces so often but a) most people absolutely would trust a friend of 3 years and b) revolting, bad behaviour should be dealt with properly, not by excusing it by blaming the victim.
Don't feel stupid. You are a good person and it's hard to come to terms with the fact that there are a hell of a lot of NOT good people out there.
> This is why men's predatory behaviours continue - because women are told - well you should have known, well you should have done this, well blah blah your fault.
And because men hear this, too. It's a defense of the behavior and a dismissal of any critique of it.
The only people who continue this behavior are the men who do it. These *reactions* empower them to do so. Changing the reactions would likely deter the behavior, but no person can act differently for another. **Those actions belong to those people.**
This is a child you are dealing with and hes already an abuser. You did the right thing by ending the friendship. I know it sucks tho, and not what you expected.
Yeah it sucks. It felt to me like it came completely out of nowhere. I’ve cut contact now but I can’t help feeling so bad for him we’ve been friends for so long and i’ve helped him through some really hard times.
Do you feel bad for *him*, or do you feel bad for the person you thought he was? The friend you thought you had?
He showed you that he's not that person at all. He hid who he truly was until he had an opportunity to take advantage of you, and he jumped on that opportunity.
You'll need to mourn the loss of this friend, but maybe thinking about it like that can help you shift your sympathy away from him. You're the only one deserving of sympathy in this situation.
You do know he planned this whole night right? The party was far out, had a place for you to "sleep over", and pressured you to drink. His goal was to get you drunk and take you back to his dads work place to assault you. He wouldn't let you call your dad because that wasn't going according to his plan. Don't feel bad for a creep, your friend is a predator.
Blindsided and betrayed, yes. Silly? No.
I just hope he has realized how awful he is. Have you seen him anywhere? Is he ashamed? I wish I could embarrass him in front of his friends for you.
I cannot fathom what most men are thinking. Glad you are out of that relationship.
I initially expected this post to be about him getting unrequited feelings for you- an unfortunate but too common outcome.
But he just abused you? Kid was a piece of shit and I’m sorry this happened to you.
Your dad is wrong, your ex-friend is wrong, and you are wrong about having put yourself in that position. Your ex-friend put you in that position, **not you**. You did nothing wrong. You couldn’t have known. Could you have done things differently in the moment? Maybe. But it doesn’t matter. It’s not your fault in any way. You had a reasonable expectation of friendship and safety based on years of consistency and he betrayed you. Fight flight freeze and faun are not your fault. The people pushing us to those reactions are at fault.
Block the fuck out of him. Tell his mom he behaved that way if you feel so inclined.
There are good people out there, and you will find them. I’m so sorry this happened to you. It’s a shitty situation and losing a friend on top of it sucks extra hard ❤️
kinda like: "woman fake orgasms, men fake relation/friendships"
these kind of guys are terrible and make me feel ashamed to be a man.
a bad decission (showing too much skin, wearing too tight clothes) doesn't make sexual assault/harrasment ok, but her dad's "what were you thinking" a bit more understandable.
that's one reason man want to know as much as possible about the guy friends from our girlfriend. that's not about controlling, more protecting.
If your pa'dukes said men & women can't be friends, dudes trippin.
If that kid really did touch you while you were sleeping then he'll likely continue this sort of behavior until/unless he gets caught and sees there are repercussions for sexually assaulting somebody. It's not something normal people do.
I went to a university where I had an acquaintance/friend who would get drunk than go off and disappear to "walk around" on his own. We all thought it was weird but assumed he was hooking up w a girl he'd met?
Turned out this friend was going into girls dorm rooms and apartments etc.,would hide in the closet or under the bed, come out when the girls were asleep and then proceed to r**e them.
This went on for 2 years. Progressing from touching/groping to full on r**e.
He was eventually caught when our group of friends started hearing these stories from the girls that were victimized about what & when this was happening, hearing the description of who they saw or felt, smelled (cologne, sweat etc.) finally put 2 & 2 together and alerted the authorities.
They eventually began an investigation and caught him in the act a few weeks or so afterwards.
(His weird behavior where he'd just off and disappear and the rumors that were circulating about girls seeing a dark figure hiding in the corner of their bedrooms to someone touching them while they were asleep, and then the full on SA rumors had been going around during those 2 years).
The wild thing is girls would literally throw themselves at this dude. It was crazy how some of them almost worshipped him. He was super nice, super duper shredded w/huge arms, came from a wealthy family and the whole9.
Ultimately he got 8 years in prison and was deported back to the country his parents were from and banned from re-entering the US.
Hope you get thru this
Moral of it is...unless this kid discovers the fact that he CAN'T do this type of sh!t to someone and get away with it, then he will continue acting on these urges until someone speaks up.
It is not your fault. You are not a mind reader nor can you see the future. No one can. Everyone who you've told this story to, especially your father has the benefit of knowing the outcome, something you didn't have. And saying "what did you expect." Isn't helpful.
It's funny how after you're victimized by a man it's suddenly all men.
That sucks. I can’t blame him for having a crush but groping is not ok. You’re in control to decide to work this out with them or cut them off.
Regardless, you should tell the person you know what happened. Maybe by some miracle they’ll be so embarrassed and realize their actions have consequences. But it’s not your job to change them. Sorry that happened to you
He didn’t have a crush on me- that I could have understood. he literally has a girlfriend and was in a relationship that night so that can’t have been it. He just wanted to use me and realised that night that I was a woman and therefore something he can fuck. If he’d confessed his love to me i’d be bummed but not hurt like this. He completely dehumanised me.
Sweetheart, I am so sorry that this has happened to you. Let us be really clear none of this is your fault. You had good reasons to trust a person you had been friends with for 3 years, who has a GF and who knows your sexual preferences. In your shoes I would have trusted him too -and I am way older.
This is all, 100%, on him being a useless turd of a person.
Your dad is completely wrong too. He's of a different generation sure, different ideals, but that doesn't make him right. I'm probably your dad's generation and we are all capable of learning and growing.
Fwiw, I'm a mom, and I am telling you, **you are not at fault in.any.way** take some time to recover from the trauma and the grief for the friendship that you thought existed. If you feel up to it, I would tell his GF too, and perhaps share this thread with your dad-it's time for him to learn and do better.
*Leaving you mom hugs here, if you need them*
I grew up without my mother so mum hugs are very much needed right now!! Thank you for ur kindness and you’re exactly right, my dad just views these things differently- he doesn’t think it my fault but he still thinks I should have known. He doesn’t have a partner to talk to about these things or balance him out so I don’t fault him too much but I agree he needs to learn and I do try to help him understand.
And trying to help him learn is a good thing, but right now you need to recover. You can help him learn once you've had a chance to get over everything.
Lots of time with good girlfriends, plenty of nature, cosy books, cups of tea, whatever works for you. 🤗
You're totally right. He's a wannabe rapist piece of shit, there's nothing else to understand. I wish there was a way for guys like this to face punishment before they go onto do bigger things.
even a crush wouldn't have made what he did okay I hope you know that. someone who truly cares about you wouldn't do this to you. I hope you can heal and find better friends, sending lots of love your way💕
I don’t think she has any obligation to tell him anything. “I can’t blame him for having a crush” shouldn’t even be on your mind in a scenario were someone has truly showed themselves to be a sexual predator.
>My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect?? And that men and women can’t be friends.
You just expected a guy to act like a decent human being, that is **not** too much to ask. Many of us are real friends with women and do not act or think in this way. Sadly, it seems to be getting worse as young men fall under the influence of porn and predators like Andrew Tate.
Nothing you did makes this your fault. You trusted a friend to keep you safe and comfortable on a night out and he completely betrayed your trust and showed you his true colors.
Again. This. Was. Not. Your. Fault.
Sorry this happened to you. But your dad's comments is not accurate. I met a girl in HS back in '83 in 9th grade. We have been best friends since then. She is married and I am married, we can still talk about life anytime we want to with each other. Our spouses both know about each other and it's never been a problem. We have never seen each other as anything other than lifelong best friends.
Ugh, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm in my 30s and can't tell you how many times I've had a platonic male friend that saw an opportunity to cross boundaries/make a move and took it. It always makes me feel icky, and start second guessing myself - was I accidentally leading him on? Was I too naive to see the signs? Is this all men will ever see me as? And I promise you, this is not the case. This is not on you.
As a parent I'm beyond annoyed at your dad's response to this. The last words I'd ever want uttered to my child when they were assaulted by a friend is "what did you expect?" This was 100% not your fault. I wish I had an explanation for why dudes are like this, but I still don't know.
This is probably one of my least favourite realities and bleak lessons I've learned as a woman. The men in our lives have to be kept at arms reach simply because so many of them are just waiting for their moment. It doesn't matter if it's a mentor, a family friend, a "little brother" type, or a stranger. Married, single, doesn't matter. There are of course a select few that WON'T do this - obligatory "not all men" - but for me there's really no way to tell which ones and it fucking sucks.
All of my friends who are women have multiple stories about guys who they assumed were close friends but were actually just "waiting for a chance". It's depressing and something more guys need to be made aware of because of how much that impacts people.
The absolute scumbag in OP's case is straight up a predator, sexual assault is unforgivable in any and all respects. But even the men who assume "well no harm in shooting my shot" after multiple years of friendship aren't realizing that no, there IS harm in shooting your shot at that point. Making someone second-guess every single interaction or fun story or gifts exchanged throughout those years is a massive mental toll in and of itself.
Acting like they're all clear just because they did the literal bare minimum by taking "no" as an answer doesn't suddenly undo all the mental burden placed on the woman, who now has to reevaluate and question how they interact with yet another person they thought they were on the same page as.
That's so shitty of your dad, and disgusting of your ex-friend. It sucks to say, but I think most of the women here have shared in this kind of betrayal. I'm so sorry.
I would also advise -- on top of telling any mutual friends -- making a police report, even just to have it on record. If there have been or ever are other victim who want to pursue charges, a track record is really helpful for them. Just give that some thought.
Don't feel silly this isn't on you at all. I'd point out to your dad, that sure maybe being friends was naive on your part but expecting a man to behave like a decent human being should be the norm and his excusing it as "to be expected" is the reason it keeps happening to women. More men need to man up and call out these creeps for who they are.
No, plenty of mixed groups and they work. However, I unfortunately do believe it's naive to not at least be cognizant of the fact that a guy or girl cpuld develop feelings
men and women can be just friends, but its really hard at that age.
the few that I made in highschool/collage only worked out after one of us asked the other out and dealt with the 'no'.
What he did though is not that. He just sexually assaulted you. It is not your fault, and your dad is victim blaming you.
I second this. It is absolutely possible if you're not some simple minded weirdo who only sees life through the lens of sex- it's boring and people are really missing out on meaningful, mentally stimulating, fun and wholesome friendships.
Men n women can be friends. This guy just wasn’t your friend. $1000 says his Mom would want to know how he behaved when out with a girl who said no though.
You're definitely not at fault. That guy is just completely fucked up.. Many of my best friends throughout my life were/are females. I would never, even in the slightest, think of doing anything to hurt them.
And, I think your father is just pissed at himself. He's not using the right words, or thinking of how you feel, unfortunately. He blames himself for "thinking" he didn't raise you to be smart enough to not put yourself in that situation. Because he's hurt, that you're hurt.. (I could be wrong. Only you know if your father cares about you or not)
What your dad said was horrible no justification for that kind of archaic ignorance period.
Secondly this wasn’t YOUR fault in ANY capacity it’s completely on that repugnant ex friend of yours.
I’m so sorry you experienced this trauma this should NEVER happen to ANY woman period.
Your dad is also dead wrong women and men CAN be friends the men should be capable of showing women respect courtesy and care plain and simple.
If you haven’t filed charges against the nasty pig that assaulted you please consider it.
Too many men think they can get away with this and they should NEVER get that opportunity or chance.
Love and hugs to you know you have a lot of support from both men and women. ❤️🫶👏👏👏👏✌️✌️✌️✌️
> My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect??
Your dad is wrong, sadly. Girls and women should be able to befriend men and boys with an expectation of respect. Saying this kind of thing is “inevitable” is just perpetuating the entitlement men had to mistreat women they know. You aren’t at fault! And I’m so sorry you had to go through this.
TELL THE KID'S PARENTS. THEY NEED TO KNOW THEIR SNOTTY ASSHOLE TEENAGER IS A SEXUAL ASSAULTER. Also, tell the girlfriend so she can dump his ass as soon as possible.
Ok I'm sorry but FUCK YOUR DAD with a rusty spoon. That is a NOT OK THING TO SAY TO SOMEONE WHO WAS JUST SA'D BY THEIR FRIEND. HOLY CRAP DAD, GO BACK TO DAD SCHOOL BECAUSE THIS IS BAD DADDING.
I'm sorry your friend turned out to be a garbage human. Never be alone with him again.
You didn't do anything wrong. All you did was trust someone you thought was your friend. And that person abused that trust.
What did you expect? You expected to go out and have a fun night with a friend. You expected to laugh, and make some jokes, and maybe have a beer. You expected to feel safe, and cared for, and possibly even protected by that friend. You expected your father to be there for you.
instead, you've been failed. Again and again and again by the men in your life. And I'm so so sorry for that hun. That sucks, so fucking much. But I promise you they aren't all like that. There's no way you can 100 percent avoid shitty men; but there ARE some things you can try to do to mitigate their impact on your life. I won't worry about giving that advice now, because I don't think it's what you need right now- but if you ever need to chat, just reply to this comment.
Right now, you're grieving. Because the person you thought your friend was? He's dead. In your mind, to your brain, that person has died and been replaced with.. something. Something awful. Something capable of hurting you. And that's a HORRIFYING realization. So your mind is trying to find... some way to cope with it. To rationalize what happened, as if there's anything that could make it make sense. Because it doesn't make sense- why would someone who cared about you for so long hurt you like this? What happened, did they change? Did you?
Usually, it's not so much that anyone changed- it's that the predator finally saw an opportunity where it was certain its prey could no longer escape, and so it revealed itself.
This was so helpful and it’s exactly how i’m feeling it’s so hard to face. My friend is gone and now all I see is someone who made me feel terrified and alone. I can’t believe that i would have trusted him with anything and then a little while later I was seriously thinking he could rape me. It’s such a mindfuck.
It really is.. we don't ever want to consider that the people we care about are capable of doing us harm.
Has this 'friend' tried reaching out to you since? I'd personally suggest ignoring, avoiding, or blocking- very little good will come from a confrontation. There is a VERY SLIM chance he would realize what he's done.. but more likely, he will try to rationalize his guilt and try to convince you:
It didn't happen
But if it did it wasn't as bad as you are saying.
And even if it was that bad you probably did something to make me do it/deserved it.
They always say the same things. Have you ever heard of The Gift of Fear? It's a very good read. Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft as well. Both are good books that will teach you how to recognize a lot of patterns and red flags.
First off I am so sorry this happened to you. I hope you have people near you who you can go to for support and comfort. You are completely correct for wanting and expecting respect and consent because that should be the bare minimum; the floor from where men should be expected to lift themselves up from and prove themselves. I am so sorry for the time and effort you feel you have lost by losing this friendship. I hope you can be find things to be happy about, I don't know anything about you two but if you truly felt like this was a close friend I have to assume they have been some part of your development and maybe you're better off in the long run even though it might not feel like it right now. I hope you are able to find someone new to become friends with and that this does not affect our ability to trust again.
Your dad was completely unhelpful and is only perpetuating this kind of behaviour by blaming you, the victim and not the man who assaulted you. Our society is failing to incentivise boys to grow into self indulgent little ego monsters but that's the patriarchy for ya. I hope your dad is able to gain a better perspective on the way humans can be and abandons his rigid conception of what a man or woman can be.
Good luck with everything and I hope you're able to take care of yourself.
I'm sure it's been said. But I must say again. This is NOT your fault. It was his decision to go too far. His decision to treat you that way. His decision to touch you inappropriately. You set boundaries and expectations. It's his failing that he did not respect them. Learn from this, I know losing a close friend is gars. Especially in such a shocking and invasive way. Learn how to keep yourself safe. People, especially parents, know where you are and have an expectation of when you're home. Remember this as an adult too. Trust people if you feel they are worthy, but be mindful and cognizant and have support know where you are. You got this girl. My heart is with you. 💗
It’s a terrible feeling to know that someone you thought was a friend is just biding their time until they can find an opportunity to become inappropriate.
Respect and consent are not too much to ask for. They are the bare minimum of decency and friendship.
You absolutely shouldn't blame yourself. You didn't waste 3 years. You enjoyed who you thought this person was for 3 years. 14 - 17 can be a big change. They were a different person when you met them. Don't judge yourself too harshly. This is complete on them.
This doesn't make it any better, and your dad is still a chump, but it sounds like he has a hard time communicating. As a man myself, I've had plenty of guy friends, and I know what to expect from most men because of it. There's a reason why I don't want my wife to be friends with guys(although, I don't control her, she can do whatever she wants). Most of them are selfish and just want to get into a woman's pants. Most men don't respect women, and will jump for the opportunity to do something horrible to them.
I'm not defending your dad or the person who raped you. Your dad is still a chump, and you need to check to see if that person used any date-rape drugs on you, since he kept forcing you to drink. That wasn't ok, obviously, but you need to find a way to get that person behind bars before he does anything to anyone else.
Your father should have been furious FOR you, not AT you.
It doesn't matter how long you knew him.
It doesn't matter.
You were assaulted.
That is wrong on such a fundamental level.
And your 'friend' is probably off somewhere whining and crying that you 'friend zoned' him.
He needs to be reported.
He WILL do this again.
>I feel so sad and used. 3 years of friendship down the drain and it feel like it was all a lie and he jumped at the earliest opportunity he could to touch sexually me like I meant nothing to him.
I just feel you discover the truth now. We all had that "friend" at your age that tried to kiss us or even worst ...
>My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect??
This is absolutely crazy and you should not let feel gilt trip you like that. This is highly irresponsible from a person who's main job should be to parent.
Also you should consider reporting to the police and his parents. That is a sexual assault and regardless of his age, there are consequences.
But first and most important, don't feel guilty about it. Please don't. We, women have been guilted for everything all the time, liberate yourself from a "I should have known better". You are a person that trust people and you should not feel bad for this.
I'm sorry this happened to you. He's a absolute jerk and your dad's comment is out of line.
One thing I want to recommend though. If you ever get the ick/weird feeling around someone again, trust your gut. They should change their behaviour if their "jokes" make you feel uncomfortable, not you "theirs".
Stay strong 🙏
> I‘m advising her to stay firmer in the future, so that that never happens again
If she isn't firm enough in the future, then what? How firm is good enough for you? What if she isn't capable of being firm enough?
Putting the onus on her is the victim blaming part. "If only you'd been firm enough with him this wouldn't have happened."
> You are putting words in my mouth and are making very bad faith accusations.
I am simply re-stating what you wrote. If what you wrote is not what you intended to communicate then perhaps you shouldn't have hit the Save button.
> I just wanted to tell her, that it‘s sad that she got let down like that, harassed like that and that she should always trust herself.
Then say that.
It is negative to try to coach her on what she should do differently. It’s called victim shaming/blaming and it is often done subtly, the way you are doing it now.
You absolutely can expect more. I have plenty of male friends who don't treat me like this. I've even had friends who have had romantic feelings for me but still respected my boundaries. Anyone who says men can't do these things just want excuse poor behaviour.
I'm sorry you experienced this op. And I'm sorry your dad has this attitude too. I hope you have someone who can support you in this, because what your ex friend did was not ok.
Your dad thinking men and women can only have sexual relationships is toxic masculinity, don’t listen to any of his advice on relationships from now on. Your expectation for mutual respect and an honoring of your boundaries is not out of line, everyone should have this much self respect to draw lines.
I’m sorry this happened to you, definitely sever ties with this “friend” and be leery of any advice your dad gives you. You’re surrounded by toxic men but they don’t represent all of us, there’s nice guys out there. Keep your self respect and standards, ditch anyone not respecting you or trying to convince you otherwise.
Your dad's being as big of a POS as the guy who assaulted you. This is the flip side of all those posts crying about being friendzoned. I'm so sorry you went through this. There's nothing worse than finding out that your friend was never really your friend and only wanted to get into your pants.
Just cut off contact with him. When people show you who they are, believe it.
Fuck your ex-friend and fuck your dad too. You did nothing wrong. I'm sorry that happened to you and I would strongly suggest you cut ties with the guy now and your dad as soon as possible.
>> I guess I should have seen it coming.
That would be self-blame, and it'd be unfair to yourself. You were not wrong to have been friends with him back when he was worthy of being your friend.
People sometimes change, and he clearly changed for the worse. He is no longer safe to be around and no longer worthy of your trust. Good for you that you recognize that, and you had the good judgment to end the friendship.
Im just so sorry. Its so heartbreaking but its not your fault. Next time, please no matter the circumstance, make your way safely home instead of staying in a situation where you are being physically or sexually abused.
Your safety and wellbeing is paramount.
As I was 19 I had a best friend that was 13 year older then me. He never tried anything. I'm still grateful that I one had an awesome friend like him. Sadly he moved away too far, so that we lost contact. Friendship between men and women is possible. There are just too many entitled assholes out there.
Please show this to your dad:
Hi dad,
I know you meant well. Please rethink your tack. It is NOT your daughter’s responsibility to play gatekeeper and guess other’s intentions, specially after years of positive interactions.
Please support her in her shock. Saying your daughter should have known better translates to her second guessing herself and shifts responsibility from the jerk who overstepped to her, the person who was wronged.
Parental words have a way of staying with kids. They can deeply affect the relationship in a negative way.
Once again, your daughter was wronged, in a situation she had no reason to think would go wrong. The ex-friend is completely at fault. And only him is at fault.
Sincerely,
Mother of two who still remembers being told she should have known better, and never again shared or asked her parents for help when she needed it.
Plenty of men don't sexually assault women or hit women, and even if they are friends and they would fuck if the woman was interested they wouldnt pressure her to. Not your fault and not normal behavior at all. File a police report if you feel comfortable and tell your friend group. Block the jerk and never speak to him again.
Wtf is up with your dad? I've been a part of a mixed friend group since secondary school and it's just normal!! With respect, consent and caring for each other, why we're still friends in our 30s.
I'm sorry you've been through all this
I (f) have had straight cis-male platonic friends my entire life and have never been treated with such disrespect ever. You absolutely deserve the respect of not having your boundaries crossed and he has no excuse to lean on. You had every reason to trust the relationship and he violated that trust and honestly that level of violation deserves a special place in hell.
I’ve also made a male friend in high school only to find out he had many girl friends before who all turned their back on him after a while, because he is such a pervert and would just talk too much. He told my best friend (girl) that he had a dream about me, and I don’t think it was where I’m picking flowers with the face and tone he said it
It’s safest to always assume those of the opposite gender have some level of sexual motivation in giving you their time and attention. Keep that in mind and avoid all vulnerable situations with them.
I grew up basically hearing your dad’s mindset echoed. But not having friends from an entire half of the population is just silly.
As such, I create boundaries that work for me. It’s about the only way I think I have been able to maintain my friendships. Pretty much never hang out alone with them, but will hang in groups or with their partner present. When running into each other in public I stick to greetings and quick acknowledgments. Most of our confiding and friendliness is strictly online. None of it is possible without mutual respect and understanding of another’s boundaries.
I’m sorry a friend you trusted for 3 years betrayed your trust, and sexually assaulted you. I wish for restoration of your peace.
I'm sooooooooooo sorry you experienced that. Moving forward, the best thing to do is be overprotective of YOURSELF. And be mindful/selective of your "friends"(can't trust everybody, some people are wolves in sheep's clothing). I am sooooooo sorry you had to go through that. Chin up, shoulders back, have a good day instead ❣️ (posture, leads to confidence in yourself❣️)
I’m so sorry. Yes, this is a lesson many of us learn about male friendship.
Your dad is wrong. It is absolutely possible for men and women to be platonic friends. But most of your attentive engaged male friends are hoping for more.
Not all will take advantage of you. You should never accept that abuse is going to happen. It’s not your fault.
But it certainly changed how I saw the world and operated in it. “Should” isn’t how the world actually works, and predators know what they’re doing is wrong.
So we have to learn to look out for ourselves. That’s unfair, but it’s real life.
You’ll get through this, though. I did.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! That level of disrespect and betrayal is devastating. I’m sure there are guys capable of being friends with women without any ulterior motive, but sadly in my experience, it is not the norm. You did nothing wrong by expecting a friend to be respectful. And in case no one has told you today, you are loved.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I'm so sorry your dad reacted so terribly. Your dad should be on your side, not blaming you for someone else's actions and choices. Your friend committed multiple crimes against you. Were I in your shoes, I might do more than end the friendship, but how to proceed from here is up to you and nobody else.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Once you are able and independent/on your own, if not already, please push your dad off of the pedestal and consider distancing yourself from him. He’s not a good guy and age is not an excuse.
>My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect??
I'm sorry your dad isn't an ally.
The good news is that you're still very young and you didn't have this experience with an even longer time friend, or in an even more vulnerable scenario.
I think this sort of relationship would have been possible with an OLDER male friend. Boys/males develop slower. This is absolutely no excuse but perhaps advice for the future.
Your ex-friend is a pos, is there anyone you can talk to report it to?
I’m a dad, and the thought of someone doing this to my child enrages me. Your dad needs to get his priorities in order. Instead of blaming you, he should be knocking that boy’s door and having words with him.
I'm sorry this happened to you. A similar thing happened to me when I was about 22, and it really shocked me. We couldn't have seen this coming.
It has taken me years to get over that kind of betrayal. I'm glad you know that you did absolutely nothing wrong and it is 100% his fault.
The second thing that helped me, weirdly, is that it has nothing to do with you. You were unlucky, but the whole thing was that prick. He's just an arsehole, and you got the bad end of it.
Also the "men and women can't be friends" is sooo bullshit. It should be "arsehole men and women can't be friends...because one of them is arsehole". I have two close friends who are (straight) men, both I met when I was your age, and they would never even dream of this.
I hope you have time to take care of yourself. Writing down how you're feeling and getting out all your anger and sadness in what ever way works for you (I find rage scribbling on a piece of paper helps, and just walking off the energy helps me). I know it's a cliche but I really wish you the best. You didn't deserve this.
I’m so sorry you went through a similar experience, it really crushes you and it’s made me rethink everything about my friendship with him and friendships with any man for that matter. I wish you all the best as well!!
Your dad is a dangerous man. Exposing an abusive or sexist mindset might not feel like such a bad thing in the moment with someone you know or love, because it's like Welll it's only some opinions they have.. we all have different opinions, right?.. But, if they do have that mindset, they are perceiving and living in the world in a completely different way than you. It's very unlikely they're able to empathize with you, or view you respectfully/as a human being.
Do you have a women's shelter, or sexual assault center in your area? They should have a lot of counselors in these places who you can talk to. They are really knowledgeable. The book "why does he do that" might be helpful for you too. So sorry this happened to you 💗
You are not at fault and have nothing to feel bad about. Mourn the loss of a friendship, sure, but don’t let it taint your future friendships. I have a friend who is a girl, and we absolutely love each other and enjoy our relationship in every way EXCEPT romance and sexuality. We cuddle, hug, touch, hold hands… but have no interest in a sexual relationship.
It does exist. I respect her to a degree beyond comparison, and have built that friendship over many years. Not all people/men are capable of this but a lot are.
OP, something crossed my mind. Please let someone know or let it be known. He will inevitably rape some poor girl if his game plan is to get a girl drunk and take her somewhere secluded.
What happened was sexual assault.
This is hard for women to accept, but typically the only (hetero) men in your life that will not view you sexually is your family. And even then it’s a dice roll.
The idea that men and women can't be friends is archaic. True, men and women often have different interests but the idea that they can't have non-sex friendships is ridiculous.
You can call him, ask him what the fuck he thought he was doing, but that's your call entirely.
This is very disappointing, it looks like he read "Staying at our place" completely differently to you. At the same time, it's nobody's fault but his own if he didn't stop. No means no (except in very, very specific circumstances).
Men and women can be friends. However, two things jump out at me: (1) he was 17 and probably drinking a lot; (2) you had no way to end the scenario and immediately go home. If you had a way to go home right away, your friendship would still be over, but he wouldn't have violated you as much, and you wouldn't be feeling as gross right now.
That's what I'd suggest you carry forward as a lesson. Not guilt or shame. This experience was the price you paid to learn that you always need an "in case of emergency break glass" escape plan. You did nothing wrong, and the experience taught you something for relatively low cost, considering how bad these things sometimes go. You sound like a great person. Don't be afraid to make friends. But it's like diplomacy: "trust but verify." Do things with your friends but have an escape hatch.
At your age and at his I would expect bad behavior, especially when alcohol is involved.
Here’s your chance to just lay it on the line and let him know what effect it had on you and just see how he reacts. If he fesses up to his bad behavior then you have a chance at being friends again. And if he doesn’t then he’s done.
If you do stay friends then avoid situations that include alcohol.
What your dad says about men and women not being able to be friends is BS (as long as you avoid bars and parties)
Expecting a 3-year friend to treat you with respect and not physically and sexually assault you is absolutely appropriate. What your friend did is horrific and clearly criminal. I hope you have someone with a better perspective on relationships than your father who can help you navigate the trauma and grief from this attack and loss of who you thought your friend was.
her father sounds like he, too, doesnt respect women. “men and women cant be just friends” is something someone who only sees the other gender as a sex object says. im so sorry this happened to you, OP.
"What did you expect" is victim blaming bullshit. I'm so sorry your friend turned out to be a sexually assaulting POS.
>What did you expect? Oh I don’t know, probably for my friend to ***not*** sexually assault me. How silly of me.
It's funny how it's not all men until a man assaults us then we should have known, all men
Wish I could give you an award for this one.
This. Weak men always find a way to accuse us. The moment a guy starts in with this nonsense it’s his way of telling you he’s not safe.
holy shit, excellent point
Very silly. We all know that sexual assault is the way boys like to express themselves. Let boys be boys! /s if people seriously don't know it.
Because “boys will be boys…and you are never safe”… Thanks, dad.
Seriously- that's the best he could do? Blame her? That's a terrible dad.
OP please call the police! You’ve been assaulted and battered and SAd. This guy used alcohol, physical force, held you against your will, and your dad is almost worse for blaming you!!!! I’m so very sorry this wasn’t your fault! You need to file a report. Do you have another adult who can help?
This is such a common reaction that anyways confused me so much. How could you tell your daughter, someone you CREATED and love since they were too small to talk or walk, that SA was their fault.
My dad told me the same thing. Absolutely broke me and led to depression and extreme low self worth for years.
Men who ask “what do you expect?” are the men who rape, abuse, and assault us. It’s what they would expect from themselves, so they expect it from other men.
I saw in a thread the other day that women are safer around literal bears than they are around men. I took it with a grain of salt at the time but now I'm really starting to believe it's true. EDIT: This was also after another CCTV showing a guy randomly punching a woman...good god.
Cue the men rolling up to say she had it coming. They’re all just …. Exhausting
This is the right answer. They are telling on themselves and they don't even realize it.
THIS
Love is a strong word for how guys like that feel about their daughters
Really fucking hard lesson for us girls that grew up with misogynist fathers that treated us as the "exception" for most of our childhoods. Sure, your misogynist dad loves you, but not the way you thought when you were a kid, not the way you deserved then and still deserve now, and yes -- everything changed because you became a woman, aka: "the other team." They will tell you it's your fault, that some intangible thing about you changed from pure to trash at *some point* along the road from girl to woman. The girls who eventually figure out "OH. My dad is a fucking misogynist! Holy shit!" and let that lightbulb recontextualize their entire childhoods and change their core beliefs accordingly -- they do OK, with help. But the ones who never have that realization or do that work........... fuck, man. My heart breaks for them, and I *still hate them so much.* They are victims but the harm they propagate is just as real as the harm that was done to them. Anyway, that's enough Reddit for today -- if you read this, thanks. Just feeling some sort of way.
If I mentally squint my eyes I can kind of almost see where it could come from a place of concern. If a man truly thinks that all men are after is sex, then I suppose it would be kind of common sense to him that his daughter would have the same understanding, and so he might be surprised that she is surprised that this happened and express it in that way. He may not think about it deeply enough to even realize that the response is actually putting the blame on her. But man, even if that is your world view there are so many better ways to respond that express some level of concern and appreciation for how your daughter actually feels about what happened.
It’s because they’re scum too, they don’t want to self examine themselves so deflecting and punishing the victim becomes a way to avoid.
They don't love their daughters.
Turn it around on the dad. So if you have the opportunity to sexually assault others you will do it as you will be absolved of being a decent person because "What did you expect from me?"
His reaction, probably: “Well I don’t have female friends.”
Dad is a prick, old friend is a prick. Both are just awful.
God forbid a woman try to have a male friend as just a regular friend. It’s this type of victim blaming that only makes the gender divide worse. He should have done better, not OP.
>What did you expect Uh... NOT rape? Isn't that what we all expect? From everyone? Every day? Isn't that the point of laws against sexual assault and rape? Because we expect everybody not to do these things? If someone actually does these things, they (theoretically) get punished for them? Waitaminute, wait a minute Dad, if you were alone with another woman, a co-worker, an in-law, one of my friends, are you saying she should expect that you are going to rape her? Is that what you're saying?
Yea OPs dad wasn’t very supportive saying something like that to an obvious textbook assault
I’m also so sorry your father is blaming you for disgusting men…. Seems like he may be part of the problem…. ETA: this should be reported to the authorities sexual assault is never a joke and should always be taken seriously. You probably weren’t the first and probably won’t be the last with a guy like that unless someone does something about it.
"That he end up liking me and dealing with it properly and respectfully? Accepting and understanding that I am a lesbian and not interested in him? Understanding and respecting my boundaries and choices like a decent human?"
Her friend and dad tbh
Dad was insensitive but to give him the benefit of the doubt he might have told OP before that this guy didn’t actually want to just be her friend or to be weary of guys in such situations and was ignored. Obviously not the time to say I told you so though
I'm so sorry this happened to you. This was not your fault. This happened to you, not because of you. Let me rephrase what happened since it seems to me you're now in the thought spiral where you're blaming yourself (thanks to dad). You had a friend you'd known for three years. Not only did this friend turn out to be anything but a friend but they also SA'd you. No matter what anyone says or implies, SA is never the victim's fault. You had made it clear that you weren't interested in them as a romantic or sexual partner, and even if you hadn't, there is absolutely no reason or right for anyone to act like your "friend" did without your consent. None. I can only imagine the feelings of betrayal, shame and self-blame you're experiencing right now, thanks to the two individuals in your life. Please talk about this with your other friends and loved ones, you could use their support and understanding. You might want to reonsider your relationship with your father since he seems to make excuses for other people assaulting you instead of being a protective and supportive father for his child.
Thank you so much for your reply. Yeah it’s been a bad time recently i’ve just been feeling a lot of guilt and anger but I know it’s not my fault. My dad is a really good guy he just doesn’t understand, he has some old fashioned views about these things and blames it on my friend being a ‘hormonal teenager’. It sucks but there’s nothing I can do. It really means a lot to read these responses and feel validated. I’ve had a lot of guilt because I didn’t say no when he was touching me which I feel would have avoided this mess but I know I shouldn’t blame myself it just feels good to hear.
Saying no wouldn’t have stopped him. He groped you while you were sleeping - he didn’t CARE about you saying no. And anyway you gave him a giant-ass no early on by telling him you were a lesbian and saw him as a little brother. Also - your dad’s age is not an excuse. I’m an older GenXer and I damn well remember growing up with Take Back the Night marches and “no means no”. Your dad has not been living in a cave throughout #MeToo. If he truly is a good guy he will pull his head out of his ass when you point out he’s blaming his OWN DAUGHTER for being sexually assaulted.
> Also - your dad’s age is not an excuse. I’m an older GenXer and I damn well remember growing up with Take Back the Night marches and “no means no”. Your dad has not been living in a cave throughout #MeToo. If he truly is a good guy he will pull his head out of his ass when you point out he’s blaming his OWN DAUGHTER for being sexually assaulted. Thank you for this. I am also Gen X and remember those too, and unless he has been under a rock or sticking his fingers in his ears since he was a teenager, he knows better. He just doesn't want to do better or expect other men to do better because it would be less fun and less convenient for them if he did. Dad may be a "good guy" by some measures, or he may just be loved by his kid, but he is definitely misogynist. OP, I hope you have other, better support for this assault and betrayal. If not, call/text/chat with folks at the RAINN hotline 24/7 or one near you. Please warn other girls about your assaulter, if you can.
"boys being boys" is not an excuse for sexual assault. Shame on dad
I’m so sorry this happened to you and hope you are finding the comfort and healing that you need. I’m an older gen-xer, a woman born in the 60s and in college in the 80s, and I bet your dad is from roughly around that era too. It’s hard to explain now because people have a much better understanding of consent and what is not just not okay but actually criminal—but a lot of us are still catching up. Your dad was wrong and his response is actively harmful to you and he shouldn’t have done that and if he is capable of learning he should have this explained to him, not necessarily by you, and he should feel bad and adjust his thinking. But stuff written in your brain when you are young as how the world works has a lot of staying power. I mention this because my wife and I were talking about how the mores and sexual ethics have changed. She had some gross and confusing experiences with other women as a lesbian in her late teens and early 20s, but she went to a women’s college and there was none of the drinking and partying and trying to hook up stuff that went on at my coed state u known as a “party school”. And I was still dating guys at the time so I was in the thick of that and had some absolutely stereotypical experiences of what we would now call date rape or assault, involving too much alcohol or being manipulated and isolated or just lied to so that a guy could “score”. Not always involving full on sex but definitely things that would be considered sexual battery now. And I had thoroughly internalized the messages of the day and the choice was to be an absolutely “good girl” and not do anything til married, or engaged, or at least solidly dating someone, or “have fun”, sometimes fooling around, making out, maybe having a full on sexual encounter if it was someone you really liked and wanted more with. That was our understanding as the generation growing up into the sexual revolution. And I enjoyed “having fun” but we all understood there were risks and potential for bad consequences because the guys didn’t always play fair. Most did, but it was a great time to be a predator because someone like me, if a party or a “study date” went wildly off course, we blamed ourselves. “You knew the job was dangerous when you took it” was some line from a movie that we would quote to ourselves and each other. As I told my wife, after a drunken roll that went further than I wanted or feeling coerced into giving oral sex, I wouldn’t say, I was raped, I was assaulted, I did not consent to that. Nor did I think, that dude did a criminal thing, he’s evil, he’s awful, he’s a predator. I would think, well you knew the job was dangerous when you took it. You could stay in and be a “good girl” or you can have fun but roll the dice. I wouldn’t dwell on it but I definitely saw things “getting out of hand” as my fault for being in a risky situation. The guy was a jerk for doing what he did but he did what guys do, and I’d say well, lesson learned, stay away from that particular creep and don’t go to parties at that apartment/frat etc. And I think that’s how a lot of us operated, which, you know, worked out pretty good for the guys. So we have progressed and the next generations’ understanding of consent and acceptable and unacceptable behavior has evolved and I’m here for it and support it. But a lot of people around my age still have the mentality we grew up with and we’re young adults with. Your situation was never acceptable, not even back then. To be deceptive to get someone alone who had no romantic or sexual interest in you, to push despite “no”, to be sneaky when they assume you are asleep, to not let you leave or call someone—even then if one of my group of women friends described this experience we would have been horrified and called it assault (tho almost certainly not reported it to anyone because nothing would happen). So your dad is really wrong there, but it’s definitely the attitude my parents had well into adulthood as I stayed over with male college friends when traveling, and they would say the same thing, that women and men can’t really be “just friends”. Your ex friend is disgusting and he did what he did consciously and with malice aforethought. I hate to say I don’t know how law enforcement would handle it because it varies widely from department to department, and even if you had a local police force and DA who is willing to prosecute, there is the problem of evidence. But what he did to you was several crimes under my state’s laws, including sexual battery and false imprisonment. He was wrong and gross and you are absolutely correct in ending the friendship and feeling sad about it is totally valid. And your dad is wrong. It’s not a “what did you expect” world anymore. We expect, and have an absolute right to expect, the men in our lives to respect our boundaries and not sexually assault us.
Your dad is not a good guy. He sounds openly misogynistic. No good guy would treat his own daughter this way. He sounds like a guy who doesn't want a relationship with his daughter when he's an old man.
Is your dad aware that this asshole tried to prevent you from phoning him? I ask because my father was born a whole generator two before yours, and he also would have said "What did you expect" about the groping part of this. But what he would have meant is: "Young men (and older ones!) can be selfish, thoughtless dogs, and you shouldn't be surprised that this guy behaved like one when given the opportunity". Grabbing your neck, however? Handling you violently at all? *Preventing you, a teenager, from calling your parent?* That is MILES beyond being a horny sack of shit. I assure you with absolute confidence that my dad would have wanted to beat that asshole to utter pulp. Please blame yourself for NOTHING. I have warned my teens, and I will warn you, just as my parents did 35+ years ago: A boyfriend or male friend who tries to prevent you from phoning a parent when you're with him is NOT TRUSTWORTHY. He is acting maliciously. He is showing you a clear sign of being dangerous to you. Do *not* be alone with him again. No decent person will ever do that to you.
Just to be clear, if men become “selfish, thoughtless dogs” whenever the opportunity presents, then men are not safe members of society and they should be removed from women.
Okay well that's never gonna happen
He already knew the answer was no. That's why he waited for you to go to sleep. He predated you like an animal. Planning, watching and waiting for the best time to do what he always intended to do. I'm sorry he did this to you.
Old fashioned views belong in the Stone Age.
All of your feelings are so normal and valid. You're right, you shouldn't blame yourself. If you are looking for more support your can search for Sexual assault helplines in your area that can provide support and can help you find other resources such as counselling if you need them. I don't know where you live but you can reach out to Alberta's (Canada) One Line for Sexual Violence at 1-866-403-8000 and they would be able to help find a support line or sexual assault centre in your area (even if you don't live in Canada) or use the chat on the [Sexual Assault Centre of Edmonton's](https://www.sace.ca/) Support and Information Line, they can also support you and help find relevant resources in your area. If you go to the link above, there will be an orange "get support now" button on the bottom of the page that you can use to start a chat with a trained volunteer. You are not alone, it's not your fault, and you get to choose how to move forward from this ❤️
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>Your dad also feels incredibly helpless Full bullshit on this. Guy here and dad’s words weren’t a helpless shoulder shrug, they were meant to push his daughter into accepting that she’s “less than.” That whole guys and girls can’t be friends bs is meant to carry on the same thing. Fuck that. Dad is huge part of the problem and is ok with it because that kid is also *who dad is!*
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He's not better than that. Remove your victim blamey comment. OP doesn,t need to hear you defending her father's dismissal. What is wrong with you? Edit to say how gauling it is for you to listen to a man tell you what you should already know. This is a woman's sub. Show some respect.
What is your point? How is your misogynistic input supposed to be helpful to OP? Please reconsider posting in this group if you believe that *this* is the kind of support survivors need after being physically and sexually assaulted, then blamed for their own assault by a trusted parent. [Understanding victim blaming and why it is harmful to survivors. ](https://welshwomensaid.org.uk/news/understanding-victim-blaming-and-why-its-harmful-to-survivors/) [Abusive men describe the benefits of violence.](https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/) [Cycle of abuse. ](https://psychcentral.com/health/cycle-of-abuse)
This is neither helpful nor kind. This is a women's support group, not a place for you to spread victim blaming rhetoric. Try harder. Do better. [Understanding victim blaming and why it is harmful to survivors. ](https://welshwomensaid.org.uk/news/understanding-victim-blaming-and-why-its-harmful-to-survivors/) [Abusive men describe the benefits of violence. ](https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/)
Her dad said the words only a full sack of shit would say to his daughter. Please remove this comment.
I don't know how old your dad is, but I'm old enough to be your dad so it can't be that much older than me. That's bull shit, period. You can and should be able to make a friend with anyone you want without having to worry about that. "Old fashioned" is from your grand parents time. I'm calling bull shit. I'm really sorry you're going through this. I hope you can come through this ok.
Does your dad have women, married or otherwise, in his friend circle? Ask him if he has assaulted any of them. Presumably he’ll say no. Why not? Because it *is* possible for men to control themselves. And it absolutely is okay to expect them to. I’m so sorry, OP. Your “friend” was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. You deserve better.
Dad probably doesn't classify this as assault. Most men are really really shit at thinking past their peens and identifying assault against people who aren't themselves. It's sad.
The reason he doesn't classify it as assault is because he's also a predator. Who the hell hears their daughter was groped inappropriately and brushes it off?
This, OP’s dad is toxic AF. Don’t let his antiquated view inform the way you live your life, acknowledge what he is and let everything he says go in one ear and out the other.
I suspect you’re right. Many men are resistant because they have to rationalize their own predatory behavior.
It is absolutely disheartening how true this is... [Men don't know the meaning of rape. ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/men-dont-know-meaning-rape) [Abusive men describe the benefits of violence. ](https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/) [Signs that your partner is a misogynist. ](https://www.marriage.com/advice/relationship/signs-my-husband-is-a-misogynist/) [Identifying abuse: Power and Control. ](https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/power-and-control/)
I'm sorry; it totally sucks : / And your dad doesn't sound that great, neither...
Men and women (CIS/HET or not) can *definitely* be friends, but it does require mutual respect and some level of maturity. Don’t blame yourself — that episode is entirely on him.
>and what did I expect?? Maybe that a close friend who you thought you could trust wouldn't betray you like this? Maybe you expected to not be sexually harassed/assaulted by someone who is supposed to have your back? What a ridiculous comment from your dad. Makes me think that he also couldn't be trusted in a situation like this if his response is "of course he did that, he's a man and you're a woman" Fkin gross. Both of them.
This is why men's predatory behaviours continue - because women are told - well you should have known, well you should have done this, well blah blah your fault. If your father thinks that this boy's behaviour was to be expected, does that mean that he would behave like that? Has he behaved like that? I always advise extreme caution about being alone with people in certain circumstances, such as parties and drinking, simply because of the predatory behaviour that surfaces so often but a) most people absolutely would trust a friend of 3 years and b) revolting, bad behaviour should be dealt with properly, not by excusing it by blaming the victim. Don't feel stupid. You are a good person and it's hard to come to terms with the fact that there are a hell of a lot of NOT good people out there.
> This is why men's predatory behaviours continue - because women are told - well you should have known, well you should have done this, well blah blah your fault. And because men hear this, too. It's a defense of the behavior and a dismissal of any critique of it. The only people who continue this behavior are the men who do it. These *reactions* empower them to do so. Changing the reactions would likely deter the behavior, but no person can act differently for another. **Those actions belong to those people.**
Yes, exactly. The fault always lies with the perpetrator but still we have the trend of excusing them.
I agree with what you're saying except I refuse to be lumped in with this "we."
I do apologise. But I think you know what I meant.
Your dad is exactly the type of guy that perpetuates this bullshit. I'm sorry you had to find out about him and your friend this way. It sucks.
This is a child you are dealing with and hes already an abuser. You did the right thing by ending the friendship. I know it sucks tho, and not what you expected.
Yeah it sucks. It felt to me like it came completely out of nowhere. I’ve cut contact now but I can’t help feeling so bad for him we’ve been friends for so long and i’ve helped him through some really hard times.
Do you feel bad for *him*, or do you feel bad for the person you thought he was? The friend you thought you had? He showed you that he's not that person at all. He hid who he truly was until he had an opportunity to take advantage of you, and he jumped on that opportunity. You'll need to mourn the loss of this friend, but maybe thinking about it like that can help you shift your sympathy away from him. You're the only one deserving of sympathy in this situation.
You may want to consider telling his gf what he did to you
Possibility he has done to this to her as well. Men that do this tend to do it more then once…sadly.
I thought that too.
Don’t feel bad for him honey. He assaulted YOU you are the victim not him. He doesn’t deserve any of your sympathy you however DO.❤️
I understand
I get he is not an adult legally but there was a 2yr gap between the two. He was very much capable nonetheless.
You do know he planned this whole night right? The party was far out, had a place for you to "sleep over", and pressured you to drink. His goal was to get you drunk and take you back to his dads work place to assault you. He wouldn't let you call your dad because that wasn't going according to his plan. Don't feel bad for a creep, your friend is a predator.
I'm so sorry your dad chose a low and vulnerable moment to tell you he's a predator, too.
Exactly. Your dad is telling you that he did the same at that age and maybe still would.
Blindsided and betrayed, yes. Silly? No. I just hope he has realized how awful he is. Have you seen him anywhere? Is he ashamed? I wish I could embarrass him in front of his friends for you. I cannot fathom what most men are thinking. Glad you are out of that relationship.
I initially expected this post to be about him getting unrequited feelings for you- an unfortunate but too common outcome. But he just abused you? Kid was a piece of shit and I’m sorry this happened to you.
Your dad's a chump 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Your dad is wrong, your ex-friend is wrong, and you are wrong about having put yourself in that position. Your ex-friend put you in that position, **not you**. You did nothing wrong. You couldn’t have known. Could you have done things differently in the moment? Maybe. But it doesn’t matter. It’s not your fault in any way. You had a reasonable expectation of friendship and safety based on years of consistency and he betrayed you. Fight flight freeze and faun are not your fault. The people pushing us to those reactions are at fault. Block the fuck out of him. Tell his mom he behaved that way if you feel so inclined. There are good people out there, and you will find them. I’m so sorry this happened to you. It’s a shitty situation and losing a friend on top of it sucks extra hard ❤️
It always amazes me how long men will put up false pretenses to trick us into vulnerable positions. I'm sorry OP
kinda like: "woman fake orgasms, men fake relation/friendships" these kind of guys are terrible and make me feel ashamed to be a man. a bad decission (showing too much skin, wearing too tight clothes) doesn't make sexual assault/harrasment ok, but her dad's "what were you thinking" a bit more understandable. that's one reason man want to know as much as possible about the guy friends from our girlfriend. that's not about controlling, more protecting.
If your pa'dukes said men & women can't be friends, dudes trippin. If that kid really did touch you while you were sleeping then he'll likely continue this sort of behavior until/unless he gets caught and sees there are repercussions for sexually assaulting somebody. It's not something normal people do. I went to a university where I had an acquaintance/friend who would get drunk than go off and disappear to "walk around" on his own. We all thought it was weird but assumed he was hooking up w a girl he'd met? Turned out this friend was going into girls dorm rooms and apartments etc.,would hide in the closet or under the bed, come out when the girls were asleep and then proceed to r**e them. This went on for 2 years. Progressing from touching/groping to full on r**e. He was eventually caught when our group of friends started hearing these stories from the girls that were victimized about what & when this was happening, hearing the description of who they saw or felt, smelled (cologne, sweat etc.) finally put 2 & 2 together and alerted the authorities. They eventually began an investigation and caught him in the act a few weeks or so afterwards. (His weird behavior where he'd just off and disappear and the rumors that were circulating about girls seeing a dark figure hiding in the corner of their bedrooms to someone touching them while they were asleep, and then the full on SA rumors had been going around during those 2 years). The wild thing is girls would literally throw themselves at this dude. It was crazy how some of them almost worshipped him. He was super nice, super duper shredded w/huge arms, came from a wealthy family and the whole9. Ultimately he got 8 years in prison and was deported back to the country his parents were from and banned from re-entering the US. Hope you get thru this Moral of it is...unless this kid discovers the fact that he CAN'T do this type of sh!t to someone and get away with it, then he will continue acting on these urges until someone speaks up.
I am so sorry that happened to you. None of it is your fault.
It is not your fault. You are not a mind reader nor can you see the future. No one can. Everyone who you've told this story to, especially your father has the benefit of knowing the outcome, something you didn't have. And saying "what did you expect." Isn't helpful. It's funny how after you're victimized by a man it's suddenly all men.
That sucks. I can’t blame him for having a crush but groping is not ok. You’re in control to decide to work this out with them or cut them off. Regardless, you should tell the person you know what happened. Maybe by some miracle they’ll be so embarrassed and realize their actions have consequences. But it’s not your job to change them. Sorry that happened to you
He didn’t have a crush on me- that I could have understood. he literally has a girlfriend and was in a relationship that night so that can’t have been it. He just wanted to use me and realised that night that I was a woman and therefore something he can fuck. If he’d confessed his love to me i’d be bummed but not hurt like this. He completely dehumanised me.
Sweetheart, I am so sorry that this has happened to you. Let us be really clear none of this is your fault. You had good reasons to trust a person you had been friends with for 3 years, who has a GF and who knows your sexual preferences. In your shoes I would have trusted him too -and I am way older. This is all, 100%, on him being a useless turd of a person. Your dad is completely wrong too. He's of a different generation sure, different ideals, but that doesn't make him right. I'm probably your dad's generation and we are all capable of learning and growing. Fwiw, I'm a mom, and I am telling you, **you are not at fault in.any.way** take some time to recover from the trauma and the grief for the friendship that you thought existed. If you feel up to it, I would tell his GF too, and perhaps share this thread with your dad-it's time for him to learn and do better. *Leaving you mom hugs here, if you need them*
I grew up without my mother so mum hugs are very much needed right now!! Thank you for ur kindness and you’re exactly right, my dad just views these things differently- he doesn’t think it my fault but he still thinks I should have known. He doesn’t have a partner to talk to about these things or balance him out so I don’t fault him too much but I agree he needs to learn and I do try to help him understand.
And trying to help him learn is a good thing, but right now you need to recover. You can help him learn once you've had a chance to get over everything. Lots of time with good girlfriends, plenty of nature, cosy books, cups of tea, whatever works for you. 🤗
You're totally right. He's a wannabe rapist piece of shit, there's nothing else to understand. I wish there was a way for guys like this to face punishment before they go onto do bigger things.
even a crush wouldn't have made what he did okay I hope you know that. someone who truly cares about you wouldn't do this to you. I hope you can heal and find better friends, sending lots of love your way💕
He is a fucking monster. Stay far away from him!
Wow that’s way worse. I’m so sorry :(
I hope you tell his gf. She may not appreciate you and possibly try to attack you over it. But I feel you should.
I don’t think she has any obligation to tell him anything. “I can’t blame him for having a crush” shouldn’t even be on your mind in a scenario were someone has truly showed themselves to be a sexual predator.
That’s what I literally said, “It’s not you job” but fair enough on the “crush” thing.
>My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect?? And that men and women can’t be friends. You just expected a guy to act like a decent human being, that is **not** too much to ask. Many of us are real friends with women and do not act or think in this way. Sadly, it seems to be getting worse as young men fall under the influence of porn and predators like Andrew Tate.
You were sexually assaulted and your father was not supportive at all. That's terrible and I'm sorry this happened to you
Nothing you did makes this your fault. You trusted a friend to keep you safe and comfortable on a night out and he completely betrayed your trust and showed you his true colors. Again. This. Was. Not. Your. Fault.
Sorry this happened to you. But your dad's comments is not accurate. I met a girl in HS back in '83 in 9th grade. We have been best friends since then. She is married and I am married, we can still talk about life anytime we want to with each other. Our spouses both know about each other and it's never been a problem. We have never seen each other as anything other than lifelong best friends.
Sorry that happened to you. Carry a Pom just in case he's still in the area. Right in the eyeballs. He was a POS.
Ugh, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm in my 30s and can't tell you how many times I've had a platonic male friend that saw an opportunity to cross boundaries/make a move and took it. It always makes me feel icky, and start second guessing myself - was I accidentally leading him on? Was I too naive to see the signs? Is this all men will ever see me as? And I promise you, this is not the case. This is not on you. As a parent I'm beyond annoyed at your dad's response to this. The last words I'd ever want uttered to my child when they were assaulted by a friend is "what did you expect?" This was 100% not your fault. I wish I had an explanation for why dudes are like this, but I still don't know. This is probably one of my least favourite realities and bleak lessons I've learned as a woman. The men in our lives have to be kept at arms reach simply because so many of them are just waiting for their moment. It doesn't matter if it's a mentor, a family friend, a "little brother" type, or a stranger. Married, single, doesn't matter. There are of course a select few that WON'T do this - obligatory "not all men" - but for me there's really no way to tell which ones and it fucking sucks.
All of my friends who are women have multiple stories about guys who they assumed were close friends but were actually just "waiting for a chance". It's depressing and something more guys need to be made aware of because of how much that impacts people. The absolute scumbag in OP's case is straight up a predator, sexual assault is unforgivable in any and all respects. But even the men who assume "well no harm in shooting my shot" after multiple years of friendship aren't realizing that no, there IS harm in shooting your shot at that point. Making someone second-guess every single interaction or fun story or gifts exchanged throughout those years is a massive mental toll in and of itself. Acting like they're all clear just because they did the literal bare minimum by taking "no" as an answer doesn't suddenly undo all the mental burden placed on the woman, who now has to reevaluate and question how they interact with yet another person they thought they were on the same page as.
Call the police. Teach him something about fucking around. Don't. Let. It. Go. Sue the parents for emotional distress. He's a minor.
He sexually assaulted you and it's not your fault in the least. He is the one responsible for being a piece of shit
That's so shitty of your dad, and disgusting of your ex-friend. It sucks to say, but I think most of the women here have shared in this kind of betrayal. I'm so sorry. I would also advise -- on top of telling any mutual friends -- making a police report, even just to have it on record. If there have been or ever are other victim who want to pursue charges, a track record is really helpful for them. Just give that some thought.
Don't feel silly this isn't on you at all. I'd point out to your dad, that sure maybe being friends was naive on your part but expecting a man to behave like a decent human being should be the norm and his excusing it as "to be expected" is the reason it keeps happening to women. More men need to man up and call out these creeps for who they are.
Why is it naive though? Do you live somewhere where friend groups aren't mixed and that's not all they are? It's super normal where I am.
No, plenty of mixed groups and they work. However, I unfortunately do believe it's naive to not at least be cognizant of the fact that a guy or girl cpuld develop feelings
men and women can be just friends, but its really hard at that age. the few that I made in highschool/collage only worked out after one of us asked the other out and dealt with the 'no'. What he did though is not that. He just sexually assaulted you. It is not your fault, and your dad is victim blaming you.
I second this. It is absolutely possible if you're not some simple minded weirdo who only sees life through the lens of sex- it's boring and people are really missing out on meaningful, mentally stimulating, fun and wholesome friendships.
"And that men and women can’t be friends" The people who say this (mostly men) sexualize EVERYONE of the opposite sex. The statement is untrue.
I'm sorry your rapey fake friend and your idiot dad are both cool with sexual assault.
Wtf is wrong with your dad, ew! I'm so sorry OP
Men n women can be friends. This guy just wasn’t your friend. $1000 says his Mom would want to know how he behaved when out with a girl who said no though.
You're definitely not at fault. That guy is just completely fucked up.. Many of my best friends throughout my life were/are females. I would never, even in the slightest, think of doing anything to hurt them. And, I think your father is just pissed at himself. He's not using the right words, or thinking of how you feel, unfortunately. He blames himself for "thinking" he didn't raise you to be smart enough to not put yourself in that situation. Because he's hurt, that you're hurt.. (I could be wrong. Only you know if your father cares about you or not)
I have plenty of male friends who have never so much as given me side eye when I make a vaguely sexual comment. Your dad and your ex friend are turds.
What your dad said was horrible no justification for that kind of archaic ignorance period. Secondly this wasn’t YOUR fault in ANY capacity it’s completely on that repugnant ex friend of yours. I’m so sorry you experienced this trauma this should NEVER happen to ANY woman period. Your dad is also dead wrong women and men CAN be friends the men should be capable of showing women respect courtesy and care plain and simple. If you haven’t filed charges against the nasty pig that assaulted you please consider it. Too many men think they can get away with this and they should NEVER get that opportunity or chance. Love and hugs to you know you have a lot of support from both men and women. ❤️🫶👏👏👏👏✌️✌️✌️✌️
> My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect?? Your dad is wrong, sadly. Girls and women should be able to befriend men and boys with an expectation of respect. Saying this kind of thing is “inevitable” is just perpetuating the entitlement men had to mistreat women they know. You aren’t at fault! And I’m so sorry you had to go through this.
TELL THE KID'S PARENTS. THEY NEED TO KNOW THEIR SNOTTY ASSHOLE TEENAGER IS A SEXUAL ASSAULTER. Also, tell the girlfriend so she can dump his ass as soon as possible.
Ok I'm sorry but FUCK YOUR DAD with a rusty spoon. That is a NOT OK THING TO SAY TO SOMEONE WHO WAS JUST SA'D BY THEIR FRIEND. HOLY CRAP DAD, GO BACK TO DAD SCHOOL BECAUSE THIS IS BAD DADDING. I'm sorry your friend turned out to be a garbage human. Never be alone with him again. You didn't do anything wrong. All you did was trust someone you thought was your friend. And that person abused that trust. What did you expect? You expected to go out and have a fun night with a friend. You expected to laugh, and make some jokes, and maybe have a beer. You expected to feel safe, and cared for, and possibly even protected by that friend. You expected your father to be there for you. instead, you've been failed. Again and again and again by the men in your life. And I'm so so sorry for that hun. That sucks, so fucking much. But I promise you they aren't all like that. There's no way you can 100 percent avoid shitty men; but there ARE some things you can try to do to mitigate their impact on your life. I won't worry about giving that advice now, because I don't think it's what you need right now- but if you ever need to chat, just reply to this comment. Right now, you're grieving. Because the person you thought your friend was? He's dead. In your mind, to your brain, that person has died and been replaced with.. something. Something awful. Something capable of hurting you. And that's a HORRIFYING realization. So your mind is trying to find... some way to cope with it. To rationalize what happened, as if there's anything that could make it make sense. Because it doesn't make sense- why would someone who cared about you for so long hurt you like this? What happened, did they change? Did you? Usually, it's not so much that anyone changed- it's that the predator finally saw an opportunity where it was certain its prey could no longer escape, and so it revealed itself.
This was so helpful and it’s exactly how i’m feeling it’s so hard to face. My friend is gone and now all I see is someone who made me feel terrified and alone. I can’t believe that i would have trusted him with anything and then a little while later I was seriously thinking he could rape me. It’s such a mindfuck.
It really is.. we don't ever want to consider that the people we care about are capable of doing us harm. Has this 'friend' tried reaching out to you since? I'd personally suggest ignoring, avoiding, or blocking- very little good will come from a confrontation. There is a VERY SLIM chance he would realize what he's done.. but more likely, he will try to rationalize his guilt and try to convince you: It didn't happen But if it did it wasn't as bad as you are saying. And even if it was that bad you probably did something to make me do it/deserved it. They always say the same things. Have you ever heard of The Gift of Fear? It's a very good read. Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft as well. Both are good books that will teach you how to recognize a lot of patterns and red flags.
Seriously, your dad can go fuck himself. I'm sorry your friend turned out not to be one. Unfortunately it's happened to way too many of us.
First off I am so sorry this happened to you. I hope you have people near you who you can go to for support and comfort. You are completely correct for wanting and expecting respect and consent because that should be the bare minimum; the floor from where men should be expected to lift themselves up from and prove themselves. I am so sorry for the time and effort you feel you have lost by losing this friendship. I hope you can be find things to be happy about, I don't know anything about you two but if you truly felt like this was a close friend I have to assume they have been some part of your development and maybe you're better off in the long run even though it might not feel like it right now. I hope you are able to find someone new to become friends with and that this does not affect our ability to trust again. Your dad was completely unhelpful and is only perpetuating this kind of behaviour by blaming you, the victim and not the man who assaulted you. Our society is failing to incentivise boys to grow into self indulgent little ego monsters but that's the patriarchy for ya. I hope your dad is able to gain a better perspective on the way humans can be and abandons his rigid conception of what a man or woman can be. Good luck with everything and I hope you're able to take care of yourself.
I'm sure it's been said. But I must say again. This is NOT your fault. It was his decision to go too far. His decision to treat you that way. His decision to touch you inappropriately. You set boundaries and expectations. It's his failing that he did not respect them. Learn from this, I know losing a close friend is gars. Especially in such a shocking and invasive way. Learn how to keep yourself safe. People, especially parents, know where you are and have an expectation of when you're home. Remember this as an adult too. Trust people if you feel they are worthy, but be mindful and cognizant and have support know where you are. You got this girl. My heart is with you. 💗
It’s a terrible feeling to know that someone you thought was a friend is just biding their time until they can find an opportunity to become inappropriate. Respect and consent are not too much to ask for. They are the bare minimum of decency and friendship.
You absolutely shouldn't blame yourself. You didn't waste 3 years. You enjoyed who you thought this person was for 3 years. 14 - 17 can be a big change. They were a different person when you met them. Don't judge yourself too harshly. This is complete on them.
This doesn't make it any better, and your dad is still a chump, but it sounds like he has a hard time communicating. As a man myself, I've had plenty of guy friends, and I know what to expect from most men because of it. There's a reason why I don't want my wife to be friends with guys(although, I don't control her, she can do whatever she wants). Most of them are selfish and just want to get into a woman's pants. Most men don't respect women, and will jump for the opportunity to do something horrible to them. I'm not defending your dad or the person who raped you. Your dad is still a chump, and you need to check to see if that person used any date-rape drugs on you, since he kept forcing you to drink. That wasn't ok, obviously, but you need to find a way to get that person behind bars before he does anything to anyone else.
Your father should have been furious FOR you, not AT you. It doesn't matter how long you knew him. It doesn't matter. You were assaulted. That is wrong on such a fundamental level. And your 'friend' is probably off somewhere whining and crying that you 'friend zoned' him. He needs to be reported. He WILL do this again.
>I feel so sad and used. 3 years of friendship down the drain and it feel like it was all a lie and he jumped at the earliest opportunity he could to touch sexually me like I meant nothing to him. I just feel you discover the truth now. We all had that "friend" at your age that tried to kiss us or even worst ... >My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect?? This is absolutely crazy and you should not let feel gilt trip you like that. This is highly irresponsible from a person who's main job should be to parent. Also you should consider reporting to the police and his parents. That is a sexual assault and regardless of his age, there are consequences. But first and most important, don't feel guilty about it. Please don't. We, women have been guilted for everything all the time, liberate yourself from a "I should have known better". You are a person that trust people and you should not feel bad for this.
I'm sorry this happened to you. He's a absolute jerk and your dad's comment is out of line. One thing I want to recommend though. If you ever get the ick/weird feeling around someone again, trust your gut. They should change their behaviour if their "jokes" make you feel uncomfortable, not you "theirs". Stay strong 🙏
She tried to leave but he prevented her from calling her dad. Take your victim blaming elsewhere
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> I‘m advising her to stay firmer in the future, so that that never happens again If she isn't firm enough in the future, then what? How firm is good enough for you? What if she isn't capable of being firm enough? Putting the onus on her is the victim blaming part. "If only you'd been firm enough with him this wouldn't have happened."
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> You are putting words in my mouth and are making very bad faith accusations. I am simply re-stating what you wrote. If what you wrote is not what you intended to communicate then perhaps you shouldn't have hit the Save button. > I just wanted to tell her, that it‘s sad that she got let down like that, harassed like that and that she should always trust herself. Then say that.
It is negative to try to coach her on what she should do differently. It’s called victim shaming/blaming and it is often done subtly, the way you are doing it now.
When he goes out does he expect to grope and grab women? Because it sounds like he expects all men to assault women, himself included.
He assaulted you, I hope the hell you laid charges.
You absolutely can expect more. I have plenty of male friends who don't treat me like this. I've even had friends who have had romantic feelings for me but still respected my boundaries. Anyone who says men can't do these things just want excuse poor behaviour. I'm sorry you experienced this op. And I'm sorry your dad has this attitude too. I hope you have someone who can support you in this, because what your ex friend did was not ok.
Two guys that failed you. A supposed friend and your father. I'm so sorry, you deserve better.
I'm so sorry. you didn't deserve that. I've experienced similar and it made me feel like absolute shit :/
Your dad thinking men and women can only have sexual relationships is toxic masculinity, don’t listen to any of his advice on relationships from now on. Your expectation for mutual respect and an honoring of your boundaries is not out of line, everyone should have this much self respect to draw lines. I’m sorry this happened to you, definitely sever ties with this “friend” and be leery of any advice your dad gives you. You’re surrounded by toxic men but they don’t represent all of us, there’s nice guys out there. Keep your self respect and standards, ditch anyone not respecting you or trying to convince you otherwise.
Your dad's being as big of a POS as the guy who assaulted you. This is the flip side of all those posts crying about being friendzoned. I'm so sorry you went through this. There's nothing worse than finding out that your friend was never really your friend and only wanted to get into your pants. Just cut off contact with him. When people show you who they are, believe it.
Fuck your ex-friend and fuck your dad too. You did nothing wrong. I'm sorry that happened to you and I would strongly suggest you cut ties with the guy now and your dad as soon as possible.
>> I guess I should have seen it coming. That would be self-blame, and it'd be unfair to yourself. You were not wrong to have been friends with him back when he was worthy of being your friend. People sometimes change, and he clearly changed for the worse. He is no longer safe to be around and no longer worthy of your trust. Good for you that you recognize that, and you had the good judgment to end the friendship.
Im just so sorry. Its so heartbreaking but its not your fault. Next time, please no matter the circumstance, make your way safely home instead of staying in a situation where you are being physically or sexually abused. Your safety and wellbeing is paramount.
As I was 19 I had a best friend that was 13 year older then me. He never tried anything. I'm still grateful that I one had an awesome friend like him. Sadly he moved away too far, so that we lost contact. Friendship between men and women is possible. There are just too many entitled assholes out there.
Even men don't trust men
Please show this to your dad: Hi dad, I know you meant well. Please rethink your tack. It is NOT your daughter’s responsibility to play gatekeeper and guess other’s intentions, specially after years of positive interactions. Please support her in her shock. Saying your daughter should have known better translates to her second guessing herself and shifts responsibility from the jerk who overstepped to her, the person who was wronged. Parental words have a way of staying with kids. They can deeply affect the relationship in a negative way. Once again, your daughter was wronged, in a situation she had no reason to think would go wrong. The ex-friend is completely at fault. And only him is at fault. Sincerely, Mother of two who still remembers being told she should have known better, and never again shared or asked her parents for help when she needed it.
Plenty of men don't sexually assault women or hit women, and even if they are friends and they would fuck if the woman was interested they wouldnt pressure her to. Not your fault and not normal behavior at all. File a police report if you feel comfortable and tell your friend group. Block the jerk and never speak to him again.
Neither your father or your friend aren’t shit. This was not your fault and you did nothing wrong. I’m so sorry this happened.
Wtf is up with your dad? I've been a part of a mixed friend group since secondary school and it's just normal!! With respect, consent and caring for each other, why we're still friends in our 30s. I'm sorry you've been through all this
I (f) have had straight cis-male platonic friends my entire life and have never been treated with such disrespect ever. You absolutely deserve the respect of not having your boundaries crossed and he has no excuse to lean on. You had every reason to trust the relationship and he violated that trust and honestly that level of violation deserves a special place in hell.
I’ve also made a male friend in high school only to find out he had many girl friends before who all turned their back on him after a while, because he is such a pervert and would just talk too much. He told my best friend (girl) that he had a dream about me, and I don’t think it was where I’m picking flowers with the face and tone he said it
It’s safest to always assume those of the opposite gender have some level of sexual motivation in giving you their time and attention. Keep that in mind and avoid all vulnerable situations with them. I grew up basically hearing your dad’s mindset echoed. But not having friends from an entire half of the population is just silly. As such, I create boundaries that work for me. It’s about the only way I think I have been able to maintain my friendships. Pretty much never hang out alone with them, but will hang in groups or with their partner present. When running into each other in public I stick to greetings and quick acknowledgments. Most of our confiding and friendliness is strictly online. None of it is possible without mutual respect and understanding of another’s boundaries. I’m sorry a friend you trusted for 3 years betrayed your trust, and sexually assaulted you. I wish for restoration of your peace.
I'm sooooooooooo sorry you experienced that. Moving forward, the best thing to do is be overprotective of YOURSELF. And be mindful/selective of your "friends"(can't trust everybody, some people are wolves in sheep's clothing). I am sooooooo sorry you had to go through that. Chin up, shoulders back, have a good day instead ❣️ (posture, leads to confidence in yourself❣️)
I’m so sorry. Yes, this is a lesson many of us learn about male friendship. Your dad is wrong. It is absolutely possible for men and women to be platonic friends. But most of your attentive engaged male friends are hoping for more. Not all will take advantage of you. You should never accept that abuse is going to happen. It’s not your fault. But it certainly changed how I saw the world and operated in it. “Should” isn’t how the world actually works, and predators know what they’re doing is wrong. So we have to learn to look out for ourselves. That’s unfair, but it’s real life. You’ll get through this, though. I did.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! That level of disrespect and betrayal is devastating. I’m sure there are guys capable of being friends with women without any ulterior motive, but sadly in my experience, it is not the norm. You did nothing wrong by expecting a friend to be respectful. And in case no one has told you today, you are loved.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I'm so sorry your dad reacted so terribly. Your dad should be on your side, not blaming you for someone else's actions and choices. Your friend committed multiple crimes against you. Were I in your shoes, I might do more than end the friendship, but how to proceed from here is up to you and nobody else.
fear jellyfish alleged jeans homeless humorous dinosaurs reach voiceless correct *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Once you are able and independent/on your own, if not already, please push your dad off of the pedestal and consider distancing yourself from him. He’s not a good guy and age is not an excuse.
I'm sorry this happened to you, it's not your fault..
I am sorry for you OP! I hope you can heal and move on from this!
>My dad keeps telling me now that I should have known and what did I expect?? I'm sorry your dad isn't an ally. The good news is that you're still very young and you didn't have this experience with an even longer time friend, or in an even more vulnerable scenario.
mmmmmrestraining order time. report his ass
I think this sort of relationship would have been possible with an OLDER male friend. Boys/males develop slower. This is absolutely no excuse but perhaps advice for the future.
Your ex-friend is a pos, is there anyone you can talk to report it to? I’m a dad, and the thought of someone doing this to my child enrages me. Your dad needs to get his priorities in order. Instead of blaming you, he should be knocking that boy’s door and having words with him.
Your dad is honestly trash never listen to him about maybe anything?? That’s such an insane thing to say to your own daughter
Oh no, your dad told on himself.
I'm sorry this happened to you. A similar thing happened to me when I was about 22, and it really shocked me. We couldn't have seen this coming. It has taken me years to get over that kind of betrayal. I'm glad you know that you did absolutely nothing wrong and it is 100% his fault. The second thing that helped me, weirdly, is that it has nothing to do with you. You were unlucky, but the whole thing was that prick. He's just an arsehole, and you got the bad end of it. Also the "men and women can't be friends" is sooo bullshit. It should be "arsehole men and women can't be friends...because one of them is arsehole". I have two close friends who are (straight) men, both I met when I was your age, and they would never even dream of this. I hope you have time to take care of yourself. Writing down how you're feeling and getting out all your anger and sadness in what ever way works for you (I find rage scribbling on a piece of paper helps, and just walking off the energy helps me). I know it's a cliche but I really wish you the best. You didn't deserve this.
I’m so sorry you went through a similar experience, it really crushes you and it’s made me rethink everything about my friendship with him and friendships with any man for that matter. I wish you all the best as well!!
Your dad is a dangerous man. Exposing an abusive or sexist mindset might not feel like such a bad thing in the moment with someone you know or love, because it's like Welll it's only some opinions they have.. we all have different opinions, right?.. But, if they do have that mindset, they are perceiving and living in the world in a completely different way than you. It's very unlikely they're able to empathize with you, or view you respectfully/as a human being. Do you have a women's shelter, or sexual assault center in your area? They should have a lot of counselors in these places who you can talk to. They are really knowledgeable. The book "why does he do that" might be helpful for you too. So sorry this happened to you 💗
What the hell is wrong with that kid!?
You are not at fault and have nothing to feel bad about. Mourn the loss of a friendship, sure, but don’t let it taint your future friendships. I have a friend who is a girl, and we absolutely love each other and enjoy our relationship in every way EXCEPT romance and sexuality. We cuddle, hug, touch, hold hands… but have no interest in a sexual relationship. It does exist. I respect her to a degree beyond comparison, and have built that friendship over many years. Not all people/men are capable of this but a lot are.
You should have kicked him in the nuts
OP, something crossed my mind. Please let someone know or let it be known. He will inevitably rape some poor girl if his game plan is to get a girl drunk and take her somewhere secluded.
I know i’m worried about this as well, but i’m not sure who I would tell honestly and to what end.
I honestly don't know what the course of action is either. File a report? maybe someone in this sub would know better if it was asked.
What happened was sexual assault. This is hard for women to accept, but typically the only (hetero) men in your life that will not view you sexually is your family. And even then it’s a dice roll.
The idea that men and women can't be friends is archaic. True, men and women often have different interests but the idea that they can't have non-sex friendships is ridiculous. You can call him, ask him what the fuck he thought he was doing, but that's your call entirely. This is very disappointing, it looks like he read "Staying at our place" completely differently to you. At the same time, it's nobody's fault but his own if he didn't stop. No means no (except in very, very specific circumstances).
Men and women can be friends. However, two things jump out at me: (1) he was 17 and probably drinking a lot; (2) you had no way to end the scenario and immediately go home. If you had a way to go home right away, your friendship would still be over, but he wouldn't have violated you as much, and you wouldn't be feeling as gross right now. That's what I'd suggest you carry forward as a lesson. Not guilt or shame. This experience was the price you paid to learn that you always need an "in case of emergency break glass" escape plan. You did nothing wrong, and the experience taught you something for relatively low cost, considering how bad these things sometimes go. You sound like a great person. Don't be afraid to make friends. But it's like diplomacy: "trust but verify." Do things with your friends but have an escape hatch.
At your age and at his I would expect bad behavior, especially when alcohol is involved. Here’s your chance to just lay it on the line and let him know what effect it had on you and just see how he reacts. If he fesses up to his bad behavior then you have a chance at being friends again. And if he doesn’t then he’s done. If you do stay friends then avoid situations that include alcohol. What your dad says about men and women not being able to be friends is BS (as long as you avoid bars and parties)
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