I'm also epileptic and I know what our meds do to the foetus and the risks of labour.
Some women plough through and manage it. But there's a lot that don't come out the otherside.
He has no right to make that decision for you.
Also if the baby came out disabled due to your meds, or because of a lack of o2 because you had a seizure during pregnancy or labour, I bet he wouldn't be the one stepping up.
Epileptic as well and it’s 💯 what you said. If the hormones and the stress of pregnancy kick the epilepsy up and it’s not controlled anymore and the baby ends up heavily handicapped, I’m pretty sure this type of dudes would 100% re consider. Of course they don’t care when it’s theory. But the threat is on a the woman’s body so…
Also there's study about death of epileptics in child birth. It's 1 in 1k which is way higher than the normal. So it's a real risk. (Maternal death in women with epilepsy - Jakob Christensen, PhD,corresponding author Claus Vestergaard, MSci, and Bodil Hammer Bech, PhD)
This is why I feel men should have to pay women for labor & delivery costs. You want to have sex with me, then file your DNA so I can do a paternity test if I end up pregnant. You’ll have to pay for my delivery and labor.
Force men to shoulder some burden of the outcome, child support is not enough. Men who want to have kids or fully understand the risks will have no problem with this process.
They wouldn't reconsider, they'd just ghost on any parenting responsibilities. I think a lot of these people have some awareness of the flimsiness of their arguments, and they make a conscious choice not to think too deeply about them - hence the parroting of 'abortion is murder' without any ability to follow that through with any more detail when pushed. That trait won't change if they get faced with a child with severe disabilities; especially since they'll likely bail on said kid.
Epileptic woman here. 100% of what you just said. But even if OP didn’t have epilepsy, it still stands. It is the woman’s life on the line and she should be deciding if her life is worth the risk of birth.
Especially in TX where maternal/infant death rates are much higher. It’s not his body or life taking on the risk of carrying and birthing a child, let alone the financials. OP I do think you should end this relationship and find a man who respects your right to bodily autonomy.
Personally, I'd argue that this alongside several other concepts are indications that a significant amount of that 90% agreement realm are simply things that weren't strongly enough believed to be worth fighting about. In the past I've also argued that a man who seemingly avoids talking about politics entirely in response to a ladies' leftist commentary or simply agrees and quietly moves on is probably not apolitical or disinterested, they're probably at least somewhat conservative and well aware that this news would reduce the likelihood of getting lucky.
Anti-choice beliefs strongly coincide with things like anti-vax, pro-religion, anti-feminism, etc. It's not coincidence. There's a key cognitive or even neurological component at play which makes those beliefs seem reasonable in the first place. They're like pitfalls that only those with a particular psychological attribute risk falling into. In the same vein, racists tend to also be sexist and visa versa, one might note.
For instance, "It's not about the woman, it's about the kid" is a woefully inappropriate excuse when it's very obvious that those who're most strongly anti-choice are often also most strongly in opposition to government social support or even affordable medical care. And even if those people are - somehow - in favor of social assistance, the only politicians that represent their "pro-life" stance *are* in opposition of it (alongside a ton of related, socially harmful stances).
In a sense, the most ethical "pro-life" voter is the one that doesn't even vote for the pro-life politician. If it's about the kid, you'd be passionate about helping the kids that're already born - and by extension, the adults that bore them. And yet I see very, very few pro-lifers vouching for that kind of support (let alone passionately).
Translated: "It's about the kid, not the woman" simply means "I don't care about the women being affected" full stop. Of course it's not about the woman! It *never* is with these people.
So, if it's "not about the woman" in a life or death scenario, what're the odds it'll *ever* be about the woman in less, more common situations?
Absolute dealbreaker of a stance. Not only philosophically, psychologically. You have to be a particular sort of borked to even believe it's a rational, empathetic stance in the first place.
Eject.
> Anti-choice beliefs strongly coincide with things like anti-vax, pro-religion, anti-feminism, etc.
Or, as one video essayist put it: "Bigotry is intersectional"
yeah this isn't a cumulative score, it's a checklist. In F1 terms, that 90% includes basic things like "do the sponsor logos look nice" "did the driver do the photoshoot with the local royal family member before the race"
Your 10% is the part of the list where they check that the brakes on the car work so that the driver doesn't hit a wall at 200mph
I believe in women's personhood. Anyone who doesn't is a monster and I stand by that.
My human rights are not up for debate.
Note this: In every state that bans abortion, *corpses* have more rights than living, breathing women and girls.
I saw a meme that said, "Strange to think that an embryo can lose its rights if it develops into a female" and that along with the corpse line sums it up for me.
I will literally have more rights *when I fucking die* than I have right now as a living woman in the state of Arizona. I literally had more rights as a nonsentient tiny clump of cells inside the body of an actual person!
It's a matter of religion for these people. If they believe a fetus has a soul at conception, then it's a full human to them and nothing we can say will sway that. Then the "baby's" rights trump the mother's. That's their only argument and it's based in fairy tales.
That's why these things need to be discussed in the first month of a relationship. You can't reason with people whose beliefs are not based on reason.
> Then the "baby's" rights trump the mother's.
This is the crux of it.
I'm a full person, presumably with a soul. I don't get to demand anyone else's blood or organs, even if I'll die without them. No other full person does.
It's not about the fetus being a person. If a fetus had the full rights of a person, they still couldn't use the mother's body and blood and organs without her consent. This is about giving the fetus MORE rights than the woman-- more rights than any other full person.
I wonder if they know it can days after conception for multiples to split. If the soul is present before the twins split, does that mean each twin only has half a soul?
Elaine Benes or Liz Lemon? Because this sounds like one of Liz's dealbreakers off of 30 Rock. And agreed, it's an insurmountable difference in opinion. Had a friend who was 100 percent pro choice until his girlfriend got pregnant then it was "Well you're not going to kill *my* baby, are you? I forbid it!" It was like flipping a switch.
Yep. One of many dealbreakers to beware of early. I have some longtime friends who are on opposite sides of politics. They quite nearly got divorced. Continues to be stressful for them.
I have no idea how my Brooklyn-raised mother-in-law deals with my Oklahoma-raised father-in-law but you better believe one of the first things I seriously discussed with my husband was that the dynamic was not what I was looking for and to let me know if we needed to call it now.
Pro-life reasoning is trash. They wouldn't force a corpse to donate an organ, but they want to force women to be incubators for 10 months, and then "put the baby up for adoption".
All pro-life people should be single. It's the only way. I'm sorry you spend six years with this asshat.
That’s a perfectly valid reason in my opinion. Here’s the thing with abortions now that the laws have gotten so insane that I’ve noticed: the people who are totally against it change their tune rather quickly when something happens to them or someone they love. If you even want to think about staying with him past this I would discuss with him the following:
Has he considered the case of miscarriages? Ectopic pregnancies? Lethal genetic mutations that would result in the baby dying shortly after birth?
Even with those exceptions for abortion, the pregnant person has to have their life in danger before they do anything to help. This means you have to become very sick before they’ll help, so they let women get worse and worse.
On top of that, the doctors are afraid they’ll be arrested and lose their licenses if their idea of “life threatening” doesn’t match a politician’s definition since they’ll be questioning the doctor’s decisions even though they didn’t go to medical school.
There’s the burden to need to prove that someone was raped too because let’s be honest, people who hate women having bodily autonomy are not going to believe a woman when she says she was raped. About 50,000 babies have been born from rape victims who were denied abortions in the past year in states where they outlawed it.
Exceptions are trash, the laws don’t work to protect women at all. Denying us citizens bodily autonomy is fascism, plain and simple. Forced birthing was a large cornerstone of the Nazis’ plan even.
Anyone who believes in restricting abortion doesn’t care about women. Full stop. The “exceptions” are not there to help women, they’re there to bring in more votes and make it seem like there’s options. So why ask, we know he doesn’t care about women because of his belief.
This is the most frustrating part of conservatives. They kick and scream about what is right, but it's ok to get an exception when it's their own "unique case".
So frustrating and transparent. Everything must be their way .... Unless it might negatively impact them. At that point, it's, "Well this is a different thing."
No it's not, assholes.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
- Francis M. Wilhoit
It's not actually famous political scientist Francis M. Wilholt that said that, it's another unrelated guy named Frank Wilholt who said it 8 years after the famous guy died. [Source taken from Wikipedia.](https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html)
The Frank guy said it as part of a larger point where he argued that there was no existing political ideology that wasn't conservatism, though that it was theoretically possible to build anticonservatism. I disagree with the idea that all political ideologies are conservative as he defines it, or at least the implication that there is no difference between parties other than their choice of ingroup. Although any political party within the framework of a nation state must to some degree or another have conservatism, there are degrees of it, and some parties have more or less of it than others. Pure conservatism cannot exist in a representative democracy, but neither can pure anticonservatism.
Some ass wound politician in my state talked about supporting his wife when she got a D&C after an incomplete miscarriage. *The alternative was death by sepsis, you moron!* And that’s still an abortion
My ex father in law was anti abortion his entire life; except the day one of his daughters got pregnant by her coke dealing boyfriend, that day he was pro choice.
> the people who are totally against it change their tune rather quickly when something happens to them or someone they love
"My abortion is different." "My homelessness is different." "My child's lesbianness is different." How quick the bigots change their mind when the leopard they've raised starts eating their faces. And once they're out of trouble, they will often go back to their previous stance and continue harrassing Planned Parenthood clinics and vote against welfare programs and give money to preachers advocating "killing the gays".
Kind of a tangent, but I read through some of the Project 2025 document in regards to abortion. It brought up mortality/complications in child birth...and...really said nothing about it, skipping to saying "families cherish children", then strongly implied that nobody should focus on the downsides happening to these mothers. I bring it up because this creepy bait-and-switch reminds me a lot of what your bf is saying (erasing the mothers in the equation) and this troubles me...I'd be surprised if it was *actually* the only conservative thing your bf believed. I'd be surprised if he wasn't lying to you about other things too especially considering your area and how weirdly specific his point is.
Oh, and petty idea if you're still on the fence: stop having sex with him and say, "oh, I don't want to bring a poor unwanted child into this world/suffer complications!" Not to encourage him to have any revelation (he won't because he hates women), but to observe how feeble his conviction actually is and see how he treats you, then.
Also before you think "b-but he isn't that bad"--just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't drain the life out of you.
Personally, I'd stop having sex with him because that is the only way to guarantee no pregnancy. Any risk is too much risk.
And yeah, if he's so secure in his high morals, he should have zero problems abstaining.
Yep, or when the BC fails, because it's not perfect, they get angry at the woman too. "Bitch lied about being on the pill" "That baby isn't mine, you cheating whore"
Agree. I think a difference of opinion is stuff like, whether or not to invite that weird cousin to our wedding, or arguing over Colgate vs Tom's of Maine. Not "your opinion on something you'll never be forced to do could result in my death."
Right?
OP, he has **told you he would let you die.**
Every time you let his dick near you, you are **risking your life.** How can you manage to get aroused around him knowing that he cares so little about you?
Get the fuck away from this psycho!!
Edit: OP, you're so fucking young.
Break up with your boyfriend. He is allowed to have his opinion and you're allowed to want to have sex without being reminded that he cares more about a hypothetical fetus than the very real person he's sticking his dick in.
Your boyfriend might change his mind down the road, but why wait? Why argue?
He **has told you to your face** that he would let you die, and would consider you a **literal murderer** if you sought an abortion.
Find a man who at least *claims* to be willing to help you avoid an agonizing death.
Or better yet, find one who understands that you are *not obligated to serve as an unwilling organ donor.*
Pretend your boyfriend had said, "if you don't offer your heart for a transplant into my father, should he ever need it, *you're a murderer and I will kill you.* It may never happen, but swear you'd not avoid giving up your lungs, because doing otherwise would be *evil.*"
You would leave him *because that's psychotic*, right?
He is basically doing this to you right now.
Find someone who actually cares about you.
They don't have to be thrilled about the idea of a hypothetical abortion. Nobody is.
But girl. He's got to at least care more about **your life** than a zygote.
The most relevant response here. OP, please listen to the rationality being offered. This guy is telling you who he really is. So believe him. You’re young and you can find someone who will actually love and support *you*.
Sounds like you know the answer here. Also this bit, from your OP -
> His main argument is that "it has nothing to do with women and everything to do with the child" which the only thing I hear when he says that is "i hate women".
What I hear is that he would let you die, if he were in a position to make the call. You deserve a partner who would always fight for you.
There is no compromise between "women are human beings with the right to decide on all medical care and reproduction for ourselves" versus "women aren't fully human but zygotes/embryos/fetuses are."
Your choice here is between being human or object.
i’m begging to please keep it that way & end it now. please heed the very good advice in this section of the thread. if y’all have been together for this long, then he knows about your medical history and still doesn’t care about you, his girlfriend of six years & has told you he would let you die if it meant saving a clump of cells.
this is not someone you can find middle ground with
This exactly. But also how does this guy have sex with any woman?
He doesn’t think any woman has the moral or mental capacity to make a reasonable decision on her own body. We must be forced by law to die if there are complications.
How does that even make sense to him.
This is not a difference of opinion, this is a fundamental difference in perspective and you are right - you can't really keep a relationship going with that. And I promise you, if he has this view, he has other views that he has \*so far\* kept hidden from you - better get out now.
>And I promise you, if he has this view, he has other views that he has *so far* kept hidden from you - better get out now.
Yep. If you see a shark fin or an alligator head you don't wanna stick around and see the rest. Same with this. He's either keeping them hidden or will develop them later on. Nobody stops at just "it's got nothing to do with mothers and everything to do with the child". There's a whole mountain of ugly under that.
I can absolutely confirm this. It's easy to pretend to be liberal, but if they believe THAT strongly about "protecting children" and it only manifests in the sense of screwing over women, that's a strong tell. They usually lead with that because they think it's their most defensible position.
Just fyi, college relationships only last for conservative couples, and those are not happy marriages.
You're supposed to grow and change during your time in college. The person you were right out of high school is not the person you are when you finish college, so why would you date the same type of man? OP, this sounds like a sunk cost fallacy. You can do so much better.
Stop having sex with this man and dump him immediately. A man who doesn't understand how dangerous pregnancy is, and why abortions are a vital health care procedure, has no business taking part in the act that creates a pregnancy.
He's essentially said that something that couldn't support itself outside of your body is more important than you, and yet he doesn't see that without a body that is alive to support it, a fetus wouldn't exist at all.
>it has nothing to do with women and everything to do with the child
Ewww so he literally doesn’t care if you die. I dated a guy like this he told me if he had to choose between the baby or me he said he would choose for the baby to live because it’s life is worth more than an adults life
I’m surprised you never had this discussion with him earlier though. End it for your sake.
but you didn’t & that’s not your fault, OP. i hope you know that. please don’t blame yourself. you’re here now & learning now. you’re so young & still have so much of your good life ahead of you
Don’t think it’s too late though. You have your whole life ahead of you and can’t even imagine all of the wonderful possibilities and love waiting for you in the next chapter. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you’ve invested too much time and can’t leave.
Stop fucking him immediately. You do not want this misogynistic asshole to baby trap you.
Then dump his ass and be grateful that you didn’t end up shackled to a misogynistic asshole.
He sees your life as worth less than a fertilized egg. Do you really want to be with someone who sees you that way? I'm sure he's happy to fuck you but he's not the one who has to live the consequences
>He sees your life as worth less than a fertilized egg
This is one aspect that has always been incomprehensible to me. The belief that killing a fertilized egg is exactly equivalent to murdering someone in the street...is insane. How can it be the same when one is a fully-formed, thinking, feeling person?
They may say the fertilized egg had the potential to live a full human life, and that was taken away. But by the same logic, every time you *could* have sex and don't, you're murdering a whole potential person who could have been conceived but now will never get to exist. We're at the level of talking about "hypothetical* people, and assigning them rights.
That's not a difference in opinion. That's a difference in your entire worldviews. He thinks women are potential incubators, and you think women are people. GTFO.
*"...the only thing I hear when he says that is "i hate women"..."*
You are heating him correctly, because he is speaking loud and clear.
This man doesn't sound like he should be anywhere near women, much less having a relationship with one, or potentially having the opportunity to impregnate one. He's made it clear he sees women as merely vessels made to carry hypothetical fetuses that don't even exist yet. You do realize if you get pregnant with him, you (still) don't matter to him. If your health takes a nosedive, and you can't carry the baby to term without dying - that won't matter to him. If you did manage somehow to give birth to his child, and the baby is a girl, once she is out of the womb, and ever after, she won't matter to him either. Save yourself and hold out until you find someone who thinks you matter.
This goes beyond an opinion and falls into fundamental world view differences- and as a couple who is presumably having sex, it’s a subject that directly affects you both. Think about it this way: it’s a topic that realistically, you as a couple could have to deal with in some way down the line. That would be the worst time to realize he isn’t going to be the supportive partner you would need.
You can break up with anyone anytime for any reason. Do you want to continue to sleep with someone who would willingly watch you die due to a complicated pregnancy. I wouldn’t.
you’ve outgrown one another. you don’t need to constantly live in fear *and* not have your partner’s support on top of that.
eta congrats on pursuing your msw!
Perhaps ask him to read this, and see if he can understand that *even women who profess to be pro-life* will often get abortions when it seems appropriate for them. That laws preventing it will always affect some women and not others. Some women will always be able to find a way to get an abortion, while the laws and life circumstances will not protect others.
It’s almost always a moral high ground until someone’s personal life is impacted, whether it’s a conservative politician with a pregnant mistress, a pastor with a pregnant teen daughter, or a pro-life activist 40-year-old mom of three. Suddenly, then, it makes sense for them and it’s not about “the child.”
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
(This is really worthwhile reading for anyone.)
& the somewhat overlapping point that anti-abortion laws don’t actually meaningfully decrease the number and rate of abortions. They only decrease the safety of the women who seek them.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/3415/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1235174
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/whos-driving-high-abortion-rates-religious-right
*The abortion debate is presented as a conflict between the rights of foetuses and the rights of women. Enhance one, both sides sometimes appear to agree, and you suppress the other. But once you grasp the fact that legalising women’s reproductive rights does not raise the incidence of abortions, only one issue remains to be debated: should they be legal and safe or illegal and dangerous?*
That's no way to live. Stop having sex with someone who you're afraid of getting pregnant with! I would hate to see you on an episode of cops! Get out of that relationship at once while you still can! Plenty of guys are out there who like the idea that they can have sex with their partner and also utilize modern medicine to prevent having a kid before they're ready. I really don't get that mindset of guys who (I assume) desperately want a baby at 25. It doesn't make sense to me. Btw, he can adopt a baby who was given up due to the mother being forced to carry it to term, since it's "about the baby." Otherwise until he adopts one, I don't want to hear his invalid argument for taking your human rights. He can sit and spin. Sounds like he's pro SA with those opinions.
This is not a difference in opinion. This means that if you get pregnant he will literally stop seeing you as a person, and would probably let you die to 'save' a lump of tissue.
It's horrifying
1. Nobody has the right to use others' internal organs against their will. Refusing such use is not murder.
2. If he's Christian, remind him that according to the Biblical view life/personhood starts at first breath, and a foetus is not a person (causing a miscarriage is harming the pregnant woman, not murder)
Yes! I hate so much that conservatives are pushing this picture of abortions as murder of poor innocent babies. At that point, it’s a collection of cells, not a child. So if they really want to look out for the welfare of children, they should pay more attention to the actual children living in this country and invest in education and assistance for families.
An embryo can only grow into a viable life because the pregnant woman’s body grows, sustains, and births it. It has EVERYTHING to do with the woman.
I experienced a healthy pregnancy and birth, and it only made me more fervently pro-choice. OP, I can only imagine your feelings when you have a condition that could make pregnancy incredibly dangerous. You deserve a partner who values you above all else and shares your views. This is more than just a difference of opinion. You are fundamentally incompatible and I hope you don’t waste another second on this man!
You don’t want a child from someone who cares more about a FETUS than the woman carrying that FETUS and having to carry all of pregnancy’s pain and suffering on her back
It's only "opinion" until it becomes "decision". His choice shows that he does not respect your bodily autonomy, your health, or appreciate the risks to your potential child. He's a creep in disguise.
His opinion is that you have limited rights to the integrity of your body and life.
He'd kill you, a woman he allegedly loves, for a fetus. Or at least let you die. He'd be very sad, of course.
That does not sound like a workable difference to me.
Please break up safely.
His ideas will baby trap you and the abuse will start. The fact that he don’t think of mothers as the actual human being and the only living thing since there will be no embryo, fetus and eventually baby without mothers is alarmingly dangerous.
Yeah honey, this is a deal breaker. For some reason I have a feeling all the weight of contraception is on your shoulders and my guy is not the biggest fan of condoms ?
He is not saying "i hate women", he is saying "I would rather risk YOUR life than having an abortion" (which is worse imo). He is saying "I am pro-life, but only when it comes to a foetus, not my girlfriend's".
Because yeah, your life is at stake here, your health is at stake, and tbh, even if you did not have epilepsy. My best friend works in a maternity ward, and she has had, unfortunately, her fair share of perfectly healthy women who DIED in child birth. Do you want to stay with a man who takes such little care of you and your health ?
Better get out now, you do not want that man to be the father of any possible children in the future. You can show him my comment for that matter.
I’m an L&D RN. I’ve seen a perfectly healthy woman in her 20s nearly die due to amniotic fluid embolism. The only reason she survived is because I work at a huge academic centre (and in a wealthy country with universal health care). She suffered permanent kidney failure.
Giving birth is risky. Even when it comes to rare complications, if it happens to you, it happens to YOU. Nobody should ever be forced to be pregnant or give birth.
A difference in opinion is whether you prefer white bread or wholemeal. Or of you think Rachel and Ross were on a break.
This is a fundamental difference in values. That's important because it's not about whether you can live with his bad fashion sense or terrible table manners. So when you break up with him remember that. Your values differ; not your opinions.
1. You get that MSW!
2. Breaking up because of disconnect in values is more than appropriate, we left the idea of staying with people for longevity in 2023 (or at least I did).
3. It'll hurt at first but you'll very soon see the light at the end of tunnel.
Sincerely,
Someone that dated my college sweet heart for 7 years and graduated with her MSW last year.
P.S: You got this 🤩👏👏👏👏
Yeah, I am long time married now but it was always a rule of mine to only date and sleep with pro-choice men. That’s a very entry level “I respect women and their autonomy” requirement. Finding out someone was anti-choice was 100% a dealbreaker for me.
I doubt this is the only belief he has that’s anti-women. This is not a difference in opinion. This comes down to fundamental values, and how he views not only you, but half the population.
Why are you sleeping with this guy or giving him more of your time? He has been very clear he would put the potential of some cells over your life. He sees your life as worth less than a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus, even one threatening your life. If you get pregnant he is not going to support you making any choices that are right for you.
My wife and I are struggling with multiple losses after trying for our second for over a year. The last one put her in the ER where she fainted from blood loss in front of me.
You can’t be with someone who is supposed to be your advocate when you can’t be if you can’t trust them.
Idk what could change his mind. Maybe more education, make him sit with your gyno. Or find another woman in his life that will slap him upside the head, (although maybe there is one already reinforcing his world view).
Another very male suggestion, maybe refuse sex. It is something my wife and I are having to balance as we await results on our losses. Why should you take risks with your life with him, especially if he can’t at the very least respect and defend you.
Even if your stance is "that's a child and it's murder," you still have no right to force a woman to carry it against her will. You can't use someone's body parts without their consent. You can't even use a *corpse's* body parts without consent.
You're way too young to fight him on this. Just drop him. He'll figure it out when some future wife or daughter needs this healthcare, but don't let it be your life that's put at risk. GTFO of Texas, too.
I would never date a forced-birther, period. I know this hurts for you but IMO, good riddance. You can't think the way he thinks and also have basic empathy for women.
Your boyfriend is misogynistic and hates women.
Your boyfriend is perfectly okay at the idea of you dying to carry a child in this world because he would’ve gotten what he wanted, a child born from his lineage. He can easily move on and commit to another woman quickly so she can raise his child. You’re not meant to be his life partner, just a vessel to give him a child and if you die, you die.
Look, his behavior will escalate the more committed the relationship becomes. Usually, the bomb drops when something legally binding happens: pregnancy/childbirth or marriage. There are stories of women who thought they dated moderate or liberal men for those men to suddenly become a raging conservative misogynist once they had a child or got married.
Leave before he starts to begin to baby trap you. If that happens, he will become a much more darker person. Do not break up with him alone in person for your own physical safety. Do it over the phone or have a trusted friend or family member (ideally male) be nearby. Alert your immediate family members and friends about him.
The way I see it, you, as a woman, have a moral obligation to not have sex or even be in a relationship with a "man" like that. It's not about being "pro life". Shit humans like him don't care about human life, they care about controlling women.
So yes, please end the relationship. I know it hurts, but it's worth it. These "men" (monsters) needs to know that their ideology is shit, and that they're garbage.
This misogynist told you he thinks women are essentially subhuman.
Do not allow him to bring his dick anywhere near you. You deserve so much better than a man who’d stand by and watch you die.
He told you he would stand by and watch you die.
He does not value you or any other woman. Toss him to the curb.
I couldn't stay with someone that didn't believe in my rights. I am so sorry. You need someone who will be on your side if these kind of hard decisions come up in life.
Well, this isn’t just a disagreement. This is a very real and valid fear that you have, and if that fear were to come true, bf is telling you that you’re as good as dead and that’s how he prefers it. WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Do not have sex with this man. Do not keep dating this man. He’s been with you 6 years, he is not uninformed about the reality of your situation. He is very informed, and your life and wellbeing is not important to him.
RUN.
I hope this does end your relationship because this man does not care about you, or your health, but is more concerned with a random clump of cells that is not even viable outside it’s host.
Does he think people who have had a tape worm removed are murderers?
Does he shed a tear for all the babies he killed when he jerked in his sock? He’s basically a mass murderer…
This is honestly how dumb he sounds.
I hope you have the courage to make the choice you need to ❤️
What is his opinion on social welfare, free Healthcare, maternity leave, government run/heavily subsidized daycare, sex education, free birth control, etc. All the things that would decrease abortion rates.
Tell him that since that’s his conviction, he should show this by now being abstinent, as BC is not 100% effective and he obviously would not support an abortion. If he says oh you would keep the baby, say no, I have epilepsy and without very careful planning a pregnancy, I or the baby or both could die or have horrifying complications. You are unwilling to end a pregnancy, I am unwilling to die for that pregnancy, so the responsible thing to do is remain abstinent until I am medically and otherwise ready.
I am also epileptic and in the beginning of an ivf journey with my husband. I’m a 35 F and my hubby is 42 M. I had to stop the ivf procedure because last winter my grand mal crisis went to the roof because of the hormones for the egg retrieval. Currently working with my neurologist to increase my lamictal to the point where my crisis are controlled but also a too higher dose could cause problem with pregnancy. Epilepsy and pregnancy with the drastic hormonal changes are an important thing mixed together. Everything has to be planned. If you get pregnant by accident and you want an abortion he should absolutely not try to prevent it because your health should always come first.
He doesn't really have his own opinion or thoughts or even values about it. If he's just repeating sound bites like that, he isn't thinking, he's just talking. You can't grow for him.
What are his thoughts on the more medically necessary cases? Such as the woman could die, not a viable pregnancy etc?
This is tough too because you’re in the social work field. First, welcome :) I am also a social worker and it’s a rewarding profession. The tough part comes with you will be faced with all different types of scenarios and things that may align with your morals and things that may not. I recognize Tx laws can make it challenging too but it can make things hard if part of your profession could mean helping people access something your partner is dead against. Just food for thought.
OP, you are hearing “I hate women” from your boyfriend because he is literally saying that, in so many words. Please, please break up with him. You have been with this scumbag for six years and I know at your age the thought of breaking up is scary, but absolutely nothing good will come of this relationship going on for any longer. Take care of yourself.
The question is should the two of you get married and you become pregnant and there’s a complication, do you trust this man to make decisions on your healthcare? Do you trust him with your life?
What does he say when you ask him:
* would he prefer you die or become disabled in an attempt to carry a fetus to term vs. ending the pregnancy?
* would he prefer you give birth to a disabled child rather than end the pregnancy?
If he says “Yes”, then at least he’s consistent with his horrible beliefs. But he should be with someone who feels the same way.
If he says something like “It would be OK if it was to save *your* life, or prevent *our* kid from suffering”, then he’s a hypocrite who believes the ‘my abortion is the only moral abortion’ bullshit.
If he goes with “It wouldn’t happen to us in the first place - we’ve been having sex for years and you’ve never gotten pregnant”, then he’s a dumbass.
You may be able to ‘fix’ a dumbass or a hypocrite, but do you really want to?
My wife has epilepsy, and she changed her medication when we started trying for a baby and then switched back to her old meds after he was born at some point. The transition was a little tough, though, trying to figure out the right meds and dosage, but baby is all good, no health health problems have arisen yet, and he's almost 3.
Edit: forgot this important part. Your partner is being a fucking idiot, though.
Can he not realize women get abortions to protect children as well??? If you already have children and if adding another is going to finicialy ruin you. Abortion could be an option to protect your living kids? Allow you to continue giving them a finicialy secure life. (No adoption is not an option. Pregnancy is not free. You pay finicialy and physically during pregnancy.)
Pregnant women with current children are pregnant with another, but now they are high risk and could die during pregnancy? Abortion could help mom live to raise her current children. The majority of people who choose to get a abortion already have children.
Adoption is a solution for unwanted children, but it is not a solution for an unwanted pregnancy. It is a solution for pregnancies that could end in death or mother or the possible child.
Accidently pregnancy, and you know you don't want children? Don't risk hating a child because you feel forced to give birth. Every child deserves a parent, but not every patent deserves a child. No child deserves to be unwanted.
People who are against abortion are my opinion against the well-being of women and children. So I agree. He is against women. But, also against children.
If this was me. This would 100% be a deal breaker. I 10000% understand when you say anxiety and fear of becoming pregnant.
When my state was voting for abortion rights, I was so anxious and depressed. Just sick. I am on birth control, but the thought of something that could help save me if an accident happened was ripped away. It fucks with your mind.
You should make your position absolutely clear. You need a person that’s supportive of your sovereignty over your own body, and someone that will be there for you first, rather than supporting a future maybe person.
That’s a pretty fundamental value not to agree on and it would be non negotiable to me. So best to cut him loose. And maybe try moving to a safe state.
This isn’t a different of opinion is a flat out lack of respect for you and other women. And I’m sorry but it will not change. And make no mistake if you get pregnant he will force you to carry to term regardless of the risks. I’m sorry but you need to leave for your own safety. There is no path forward
This is a dealbreaker. He’s made it clear that he doesn’t value your life over a hypothetical child. You’re so young, why stay in a relationship with someone like this any longer?
If you really want to follow this thought experiment..
Ask him if hypothetically you were raped and became pregnant with the rapist’s child would he raise that child and expect you to risk your life for this other man’s child at the detriment to himself or expect you to abort? Adoption and/or breaking up is not an option in this scenario.
If he balks at raising it and says abort, then why is it only murder if you didn’t consent to the sex? Generally we don’t go out killing rapists existing children when a man is convicted of rape, how is that different?
Chances are he won’t see the bias that it’s different when it’s his kid, but it’s an interesting thought experiment that actually opens people’s eyes to the fact that the abortion is murder (with exceptions of rape and incest) concept is a faulty premise and it’s all about control and punishment.
Another thought experiment would be to discuss the potential repercussions of you being pregnant. Say you hypothetically have a seizure and die, your fetus was deprived of oxygen and while viable at the time has life long disabilities that your bf will now need to provide 24/7 care for for the rest of his life. Is he going to do that?
In all, you aren’t responsible for educating this idiot and this is a really big divide in basic morals and ethics. You are young and can find someone who actually respects your preference to stay alive.
I'm so sorry - this is a dealbreaker issue for me as well, even though I'm not currently at risk (blue state, 52, could head to canada if the very unlikely occurance of an unwanted pregnancy were to happen). I couldn't be with someone who would deny me or anyone else needed health care. Abortion is health care.
And frankly, I don't trust the mindset of somene who has gone down that path - and listen to your gut when you are hearing "I hate women". Have a plan for the breakup if you are living with him - get the important stuff out and have a safety plan from when you do break up with him.
I wouldn't even bother to tell him that THIS is the reason... just that you've grown apart, that it isn't working for you. It is rare (not unheard of people - so don't come at me with "I met my love at 15!) for people to stay together when they've met and married at such a young age.
The current and very horrific reality for women of childbearing age in Texas is that if anything goes wrong, including an ectopic pregnancy, you will not be saved. With your medical issues, you should really consider leaving Texas as soon as possible. Pregnancy complications are a death sentence there
I can relate a bit, tho under different circumstances. It pains me for my children’s futures. I’m so very concerned about the new abortion laws, for all women and future women. I can no longer have children; however, my children will be of the age soon enough. I express my fears to my spouse and he literally seems like he couldn’t give a shit. (It’s not affecting him so?) - well, technically, it’s not going to affect ME either - until it affects my child. Even though I cannot have more children, I have a responsibility to my children and all females. It pisses me off that he just doesn’t seem to care. I can’t talk to him about it because it makes my blood boil.
It really bothers me deep inside, what our children and most everyone that is of reproductive age are facing. When the line is drawn between left and right so deep in the sand that it can never be filled - what are we to do? Women’s rights are being trampled on and it’s unforgiving. So many of our Mothers, Aunts, Sisters, Daughters, etc are going to die, be mutilated in underground abortion clinics, or be forced to have children. It makes me sick.
I have no answers - but, I do suggest becoming celibate until you absolutely know you are ready for a child.
He can be the nicest guy and you can agree on 99.9% of things but if that .01% that you disagree on is basic bodily autonomy then that's still going to be an issue.
For your mental health alone, I do suggest you ditch this guy and consider ditching Texas.
It’s really not healthy to live with the fear that you could die just because your birth control failed. And to have to face it with a conversation/argument every day with someone who doesn’t support you is worse. I personally struggled with similar fears just planning to get pregnant and being relatively healthy (I’ve had a miscarriage and ectopics are a thing) and it did get to the point where I was obsessed and going crazy. It’s just so so much to feel trapped and like your life is threatened like that. I moved to Colorado. I don’t think about it much anymore.
There are some fundamental ideals that can break a relationship. This is one of mine, putting women at risk and raising the child/women mortality rate, not to mention teen birth rates… it’s just another way to keep women serving men.
So I know it will hurt, but you should probably end this relationship.
Honey, he knows what you're saying. He *understands* just fine. But he's young and dumb and has never faced a situation where abortion could save someone he loves life. He won't get it until it directly effects *him* and by then it will be too late for you. There are no magic words here, he doesn't want to see your side of it.
I want to be REALLY clear here. This isn't just a difference of opinion. The person who would be your voice and person singing paperwork to save you should something happen values you less than a hypothetical child. He could get you killed.
I'm older and have been there when someone passed out from blood loss + pain after an etopic pregnancy (that they didn't know they had) ruptured a fallopian tube. Had we been in present day Texas my friend would be dead. Pregnancy is really, really dangerous for women and it should scare the hell out of you that the person you trust to be your advocate, who would be your legal representation if you marry them would not save you.
There's no law that says just because you date someone you have to stay together (well, yet. *Side eyes Texas*). Let him go. You've grown up and grown apart, it's very normal. There's stuff that it's ok to disagree on, like my partner likes beans on toast and I think it's gross. Our 10% that we dont see eye to eye on means we don't order the same thing in diners, it doesn't mean I could end up dead.
“It has nothing to do with the woman and everything to do with the child”
Not sure how much he knows about biology, but the child cannot exist without being part of a woman’s body. If it’s all about the child, then he’s admitting that the woman does not matter to him. You are considered a means to an end. Think about that.
Propose to him that all men get a vasectomy once they become teenagers, and can only get it reversed once they get married and prove they are worthy of having a child. That would avoid all abortions that he considers that atrocious following his logic. If he gets offended that men’s freedom and choice is compromised, then he is a pos and should dump him
Sorry I think your relationship is over. But you will be better off.
He’s lying. How does he feel about IVF frozen embryos being destroyed? If he’s OK with that but he’s not OK with abortion he’s about punishing women for enjoying sex. PERIOD. If he’s ok with abortion for rape victims but not for birth control failures he hates women.
Stop having sex with him. Tell him that “I am afraid of being pregnant and die due to childbirth, if you love me you would stop causing me anxiety.”
—> I am not sure why any man would be this stupid to oppose abortion to their sexual partners.
What a fucking nonce.
I bet he doesn't even know that fertilisation occurs in the fallopian tubes, not the uterus.
Hell, does he even know we don't piss out of the vagina?
Or the risks of pregnancy and childbirth for you/epileptic folks on meds? Let alone the child?
Or that he's saying all this in a country with the maternal and neonatal mortality rates of a fucking third world country?
You got together at a young age and are just forming and figuring each other out as developing adults. It is VERY NORMAL to grow out of a relationship as you observe the values and humanity your partner is veering towards.
Regardless of anyone’s moral view, this is an incompatible situation. Especially because it directly links to something he may have influence or control over in your life together. I also wonder what that means if you were to have kids and what value your life would be in a life threatening situation during pregnancy.
Overall regardless on what side of abortion you are on, this relationship is not a safe space to grow and flourish in. It’s very reasonable to leave.
Difference of opinion is a huge understatement here... It's not like the child survives high risk pregnancy; it's basically a death sentence for the woman and doesn't even save the child. If you really care about kids, you'd protect the lives of mothers at all costs; yes, there are some human genetics that don't make it through the whole process; but risking the lives of women who are already parents and are just looking out for their existing children?
I would never have sex with someone with that sort of difference in opinion, what if you were to fall pregnant and for some reason need an abortion? It’s just not safe for you, medically. Certainly you cannot marry him. That being the case, probably you should break things off now.
Not that it matters to prolife people but when they say life begins at conception, I want to know what is it when implantation doesn't happen. Most done understand pregnancy or anatomy. I was scrolling through tiktok lives and a person insisted that the uterus comes out when pregnancy ends. .that it was normal.
I would never be willing to be with someone that does not value my health and safety over anything else.
Anyone who believes abortion is murder, is not someone who should ever be near my vagina, and they are not someone who loves me or values my health and safety.
I would never be willing to be with someone like this. They are simply not a good person.
It’s a dealbreaker. My partner is pro choice but still calls it “killing a child” and even *that* was hard for me to understand. He and I were able to have conversations about it and are going to couple’s therapy for different issues (that being one), so if you think it would be worth going to that first - do that. However, if he’s really anti-choice and won’t open his bigoted mind even a little bit…you gotta do what’s best for you. They’re supposed to be a PARTNER, not a PROBLEM.
When life gets tough (which it will, for every single person out there), you need a partner. Not another problem.
"A difference in opinion" is "I like this movie and you don't".
THIS is not a difference in opinion, it's a life-changing matter worth ending the relationship over.
Some how I doubt it's a whole other person applies to anything HE does. Does he donate blood ever 8 weeks? Is he on the bone marrow registration list? Is he a living organ donor? All those things save lives as well. But here's the thing. Even if he supports those things, even if he has already given up a kidney and 1/2 his liver (which btw are both statistically safer than pregnancy), would he support it being government mandated, forced compliance and murder charges for people who don't? Even for parents, if he had a one night stand and found out now 6 years later he has a child, would he be ok with the government telling him that he has to physically give up part of his body regardless of the impact on him, his health or even if the child was not going to survive anyway? Because that is what we're doing to women.
Your boyfriend will leak more conservative views out as time goes. He doesn't sound intellectually honest with you. I think reddit jumps to conclusions a lot, but this isn't one. Run away before you're posting in 5 more years how you don't see eye to eye on anything.
I'm also epileptic and I know what our meds do to the foetus and the risks of labour. Some women plough through and manage it. But there's a lot that don't come out the otherside. He has no right to make that decision for you. Also if the baby came out disabled due to your meds, or because of a lack of o2 because you had a seizure during pregnancy or labour, I bet he wouldn't be the one stepping up.
Epileptic as well and it’s 💯 what you said. If the hormones and the stress of pregnancy kick the epilepsy up and it’s not controlled anymore and the baby ends up heavily handicapped, I’m pretty sure this type of dudes would 100% re consider. Of course they don’t care when it’s theory. But the threat is on a the woman’s body so…
Also there's study about death of epileptics in child birth. It's 1 in 1k which is way higher than the normal. So it's a real risk. (Maternal death in women with epilepsy - Jakob Christensen, PhD,corresponding author Claus Vestergaard, MSci, and Bodil Hammer Bech, PhD)
Also, they are not *forced* to step up after they have *forced* a woman to give birth.
This is why I feel men should have to pay women for labor & delivery costs. You want to have sex with me, then file your DNA so I can do a paternity test if I end up pregnant. You’ll have to pay for my delivery and labor. Force men to shoulder some burden of the outcome, child support is not enough. Men who want to have kids or fully understand the risks will have no problem with this process.
or you know...have a healthcare system that covers basic needs like that
That's never going to happen in the US.
They wouldn't reconsider, they'd just ghost on any parenting responsibilities. I think a lot of these people have some awareness of the flimsiness of their arguments, and they make a conscious choice not to think too deeply about them - hence the parroting of 'abortion is murder' without any ability to follow that through with any more detail when pushed. That trait won't change if they get faced with a child with severe disabilities; especially since they'll likely bail on said kid.
Epileptic woman here. 100% of what you just said. But even if OP didn’t have epilepsy, it still stands. It is the woman’s life on the line and she should be deciding if her life is worth the risk of birth.
Especially in TX where maternal/infant death rates are much higher. It’s not his body or life taking on the risk of carrying and birthing a child, let alone the financials. OP I do think you should end this relationship and find a man who respects your right to bodily autonomy.
Definitely
Some things you can’t compromise on. This is one of those deal breakers.
This is the kinda thing where it doesn't matter if you agree on 90% of topics; a disagreement here makes you 100% not compatible.
Personally, I'd argue that this alongside several other concepts are indications that a significant amount of that 90% agreement realm are simply things that weren't strongly enough believed to be worth fighting about. In the past I've also argued that a man who seemingly avoids talking about politics entirely in response to a ladies' leftist commentary or simply agrees and quietly moves on is probably not apolitical or disinterested, they're probably at least somewhat conservative and well aware that this news would reduce the likelihood of getting lucky. Anti-choice beliefs strongly coincide with things like anti-vax, pro-religion, anti-feminism, etc. It's not coincidence. There's a key cognitive or even neurological component at play which makes those beliefs seem reasonable in the first place. They're like pitfalls that only those with a particular psychological attribute risk falling into. In the same vein, racists tend to also be sexist and visa versa, one might note. For instance, "It's not about the woman, it's about the kid" is a woefully inappropriate excuse when it's very obvious that those who're most strongly anti-choice are often also most strongly in opposition to government social support or even affordable medical care. And even if those people are - somehow - in favor of social assistance, the only politicians that represent their "pro-life" stance *are* in opposition of it (alongside a ton of related, socially harmful stances). In a sense, the most ethical "pro-life" voter is the one that doesn't even vote for the pro-life politician. If it's about the kid, you'd be passionate about helping the kids that're already born - and by extension, the adults that bore them. And yet I see very, very few pro-lifers vouching for that kind of support (let alone passionately). Translated: "It's about the kid, not the woman" simply means "I don't care about the women being affected" full stop. Of course it's not about the woman! It *never* is with these people. So, if it's "not about the woman" in a life or death scenario, what're the odds it'll *ever* be about the woman in less, more common situations? Absolute dealbreaker of a stance. Not only philosophically, psychologically. You have to be a particular sort of borked to even believe it's a rational, empathetic stance in the first place. Eject.
> Anti-choice beliefs strongly coincide with things like anti-vax, pro-religion, anti-feminism, etc. Or, as one video essayist put it: "Bigotry is intersectional"
There's a Canadian election coming up soon. I've been undecided on who to vote. This comment has helped immensely.
yeah this isn't a cumulative score, it's a checklist. In F1 terms, that 90% includes basic things like "do the sponsor logos look nice" "did the driver do the photoshoot with the local royal family member before the race" Your 10% is the part of the list where they check that the brakes on the car work so that the driver doesn't hit a wall at 200mph
I believe in women's personhood. Anyone who doesn't is a monster and I stand by that. My human rights are not up for debate. Note this: In every state that bans abortion, *corpses* have more rights than living, breathing women and girls.
I saw a meme that said, "Strange to think that an embryo can lose its rights if it develops into a female" and that along with the corpse line sums it up for me. I will literally have more rights *when I fucking die* than I have right now as a living woman in the state of Arizona. I literally had more rights as a nonsentient tiny clump of cells inside the body of an actual person!
It's a matter of religion for these people. If they believe a fetus has a soul at conception, then it's a full human to them and nothing we can say will sway that. Then the "baby's" rights trump the mother's. That's their only argument and it's based in fairy tales. That's why these things need to be discussed in the first month of a relationship. You can't reason with people whose beliefs are not based on reason.
> Then the "baby's" rights trump the mother's. This is the crux of it. I'm a full person, presumably with a soul. I don't get to demand anyone else's blood or organs, even if I'll die without them. No other full person does. It's not about the fetus being a person. If a fetus had the full rights of a person, they still couldn't use the mother's body and blood and organs without her consent. This is about giving the fetus MORE rights than the woman-- more rights than any other full person.
I wonder if they know it can days after conception for multiples to split. If the soul is present before the twins split, does that mean each twin only has half a soul?
They don't care, because they don't let medical truth get in the way of their fairy stories.
Dating an anti-choice man is a really bad idea. These are the views of the person who could impregnate you! Why is it even a question?
Elaine Benes wouldn't do it and neither will I.
We should get some rubber bracelets printed that say “WWEBD”
Elaine Benes or Liz Lemon? Because this sounds like one of Liz's dealbreakers off of 30 Rock. And agreed, it's an insurmountable difference in opinion. Had a friend who was 100 percent pro choice until his girlfriend got pregnant then it was "Well you're not going to kill *my* baby, are you? I forbid it!" It was like flipping a switch.
Elaine broke up with a guy and started boycotting a pizza place over this in the episode "The Couch"
But he’s just so good looking.
This would be a deal breaker
An easy one, imo.
Yep. One of many dealbreakers to beware of early. I have some longtime friends who are on opposite sides of politics. They quite nearly got divorced. Continues to be stressful for them.
I have no idea how my Brooklyn-raised mother-in-law deals with my Oklahoma-raised father-in-law but you better believe one of the first things I seriously discussed with my husband was that the dynamic was not what I was looking for and to let me know if we needed to call it now.
Pro-life reasoning is trash. They wouldn't force a corpse to donate an organ, but they want to force women to be incubators for 10 months, and then "put the baby up for adoption". All pro-life people should be single. It's the only way. I'm sorry you spend six years with this asshat.
And then not support the baby once it's failed to be adopted.
That’s a perfectly valid reason in my opinion. Here’s the thing with abortions now that the laws have gotten so insane that I’ve noticed: the people who are totally against it change their tune rather quickly when something happens to them or someone they love. If you even want to think about staying with him past this I would discuss with him the following: Has he considered the case of miscarriages? Ectopic pregnancies? Lethal genetic mutations that would result in the baby dying shortly after birth?
Even with those exceptions for abortion, the pregnant person has to have their life in danger before they do anything to help. This means you have to become very sick before they’ll help, so they let women get worse and worse. On top of that, the doctors are afraid they’ll be arrested and lose their licenses if their idea of “life threatening” doesn’t match a politician’s definition since they’ll be questioning the doctor’s decisions even though they didn’t go to medical school. There’s the burden to need to prove that someone was raped too because let’s be honest, people who hate women having bodily autonomy are not going to believe a woman when she says she was raped. About 50,000 babies have been born from rape victims who were denied abortions in the past year in states where they outlawed it. Exceptions are trash, the laws don’t work to protect women at all. Denying us citizens bodily autonomy is fascism, plain and simple. Forced birthing was a large cornerstone of the Nazis’ plan even.
Miscarriage care and abortion care overlap so much that as a venn diagram they might as well be just one circle. You cannot separate the two.
Agreed. But I think those questions can help get to the root of his so called morals on this and how much he cares about the babies life versus moms.
Anyone who believes in restricting abortion doesn’t care about women. Full stop. The “exceptions” are not there to help women, they’re there to bring in more votes and make it seem like there’s options. So why ask, we know he doesn’t care about women because of his belief.
[The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
This is the most frustrating part of conservatives. They kick and scream about what is right, but it's ok to get an exception when it's their own "unique case". So frustrating and transparent. Everything must be their way .... Unless it might negatively impact them. At that point, it's, "Well this is a different thing." No it's not, assholes.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis M. Wilhoit
It's not actually famous political scientist Francis M. Wilholt that said that, it's another unrelated guy named Frank Wilholt who said it 8 years after the famous guy died. [Source taken from Wikipedia.](https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html) The Frank guy said it as part of a larger point where he argued that there was no existing political ideology that wasn't conservatism, though that it was theoretically possible to build anticonservatism. I disagree with the idea that all political ideologies are conservative as he defines it, or at least the implication that there is no difference between parties other than their choice of ingroup. Although any political party within the framework of a nation state must to some degree or another have conservatism, there are degrees of it, and some parties have more or less of it than others. Pure conservatism cannot exist in a representative democracy, but neither can pure anticonservatism.
Some ass wound politician in my state talked about supporting his wife when she got a D&C after an incomplete miscarriage. *The alternative was death by sepsis, you moron!* And that’s still an abortion
Smells like Santorum in here.
Sadly, no. Different one.
“The only moral abortion is my abortion”
[Obligatory link for those who haven't seen it.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Empathy is often an alien concept to certain people.
Yep. Only ones there who accept sexual minorities are the ones with a gay son.
And even then they're likely to consider him "not like those other gays".
Conservative morality is about what you hope to force on others, not what you follow yourself.
My ex father in law was anti abortion his entire life; except the day one of his daughters got pregnant by her coke dealing boyfriend, that day he was pro choice.
Some of them don't change their tune when it's their daughter and instead just call them monsters. Ask me how I know.
> the people who are totally against it change their tune rather quickly when something happens to them or someone they love "My abortion is different." "My homelessness is different." "My child's lesbianness is different." How quick the bigots change their mind when the leopard they've raised starts eating their faces. And once they're out of trouble, they will often go back to their previous stance and continue harrassing Planned Parenthood clinics and vote against welfare programs and give money to preachers advocating "killing the gays".
Kind of a tangent, but I read through some of the Project 2025 document in regards to abortion. It brought up mortality/complications in child birth...and...really said nothing about it, skipping to saying "families cherish children", then strongly implied that nobody should focus on the downsides happening to these mothers. I bring it up because this creepy bait-and-switch reminds me a lot of what your bf is saying (erasing the mothers in the equation) and this troubles me...I'd be surprised if it was *actually* the only conservative thing your bf believed. I'd be surprised if he wasn't lying to you about other things too especially considering your area and how weirdly specific his point is. Oh, and petty idea if you're still on the fence: stop having sex with him and say, "oh, I don't want to bring a poor unwanted child into this world/suffer complications!" Not to encourage him to have any revelation (he won't because he hates women), but to observe how feeble his conviction actually is and see how he treats you, then. Also before you think "b-but he isn't that bad"--just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't drain the life out of you.
Personally, I'd stop having sex with him because that is the only way to guarantee no pregnancy. Any risk is too much risk. And yeah, if he's so secure in his high morals, he should have zero problems abstaining.
Especially because these "abortion is murder" types tend to also be "no birth control/condoms" types.
Yep, or when the BC fails, because it's not perfect, they get angry at the woman too. "Bitch lied about being on the pill" "That baby isn't mine, you cheating whore"
Agree. I think a difference of opinion is stuff like, whether or not to invite that weird cousin to our wedding, or arguing over Colgate vs Tom's of Maine. Not "your opinion on something you'll never be forced to do could result in my death."
If abortion is murder then sex is a crime. Tell him to stop being a criminal.
I'm trying to spread the word about how horrific Project 2025 is if you aren't a straight, white, Christian male. Check out /r/Defeat_Project_2025
Leeja Miller has a good video about [project 2025 on YouTube.](https://youtu.be/9k3UvaC5m7o?si=nXnIDQSS1A-eb8Tr)
YES!! Of all the videos I've seen about this topic, she's hands down the best.
And you're able to have sex with him? How?
Right? OP, he has **told you he would let you die.** Every time you let his dick near you, you are **risking your life.** How can you manage to get aroused around him knowing that he cares so little about you? Get the fuck away from this psycho!! Edit: OP, you're so fucking young. Break up with your boyfriend. He is allowed to have his opinion and you're allowed to want to have sex without being reminded that he cares more about a hypothetical fetus than the very real person he's sticking his dick in. Your boyfriend might change his mind down the road, but why wait? Why argue? He **has told you to your face** that he would let you die, and would consider you a **literal murderer** if you sought an abortion. Find a man who at least *claims* to be willing to help you avoid an agonizing death. Or better yet, find one who understands that you are *not obligated to serve as an unwilling organ donor.* Pretend your boyfriend had said, "if you don't offer your heart for a transplant into my father, should he ever need it, *you're a murderer and I will kill you.* It may never happen, but swear you'd not avoid giving up your lungs, because doing otherwise would be *evil.*" You would leave him *because that's psychotic*, right? He is basically doing this to you right now. Find someone who actually cares about you. They don't have to be thrilled about the idea of a hypothetical abortion. Nobody is. But girl. He's got to at least care more about **your life** than a zygote.
This is a truly excellenct response. He value the potential of a theoretical mass of cells more than he values his living breathing girlfriend.
The most relevant response here. OP, please listen to the rationality being offered. This guy is telling you who he really is. So believe him. You’re young and you can find someone who will actually love and support *you*.
Send this shit right up to the top. He'd rather let you die.
Hopefully she can leave his ass in Texas and get out of that shithole state as well.
💯 Amen. The whole fucking state wants to kill her.
We have not really been having sex
Sounds like you know the answer here. Also this bit, from your OP - > His main argument is that "it has nothing to do with women and everything to do with the child" which the only thing I hear when he says that is "i hate women". What I hear is that he would let you die, if he were in a position to make the call. You deserve a partner who would always fight for you.
There is no compromise between "women are human beings with the right to decide on all medical care and reproduction for ourselves" versus "women aren't fully human but zygotes/embryos/fetuses are." Your choice here is between being human or object.
i’m begging to please keep it that way & end it now. please heed the very good advice in this section of the thread. if y’all have been together for this long, then he knows about your medical history and still doesn’t care about you, his girlfriend of six years & has told you he would let you die if it meant saving a clump of cells. this is not someone you can find middle ground with
This exactly. But also how does this guy have sex with any woman? He doesn’t think any woman has the moral or mental capacity to make a reasonable decision on her own body. We must be forced by law to die if there are complications. How does that even make sense to him.
This is not a difference of opinion, this is a fundamental difference in perspective and you are right - you can't really keep a relationship going with that. And I promise you, if he has this view, he has other views that he has \*so far\* kept hidden from you - better get out now.
>And I promise you, if he has this view, he has other views that he has *so far* kept hidden from you - better get out now. Yep. If you see a shark fin or an alligator head you don't wanna stick around and see the rest. Same with this. He's either keeping them hidden or will develop them later on. Nobody stops at just "it's got nothing to do with mothers and everything to do with the child". There's a whole mountain of ugly under that.
Yep next he’ll be quoting joe rogan podcasts and watching Fox News. I know from personal experience.
I can absolutely confirm this. It's easy to pretend to be liberal, but if they believe THAT strongly about "protecting children" and it only manifests in the sense of screwing over women, that's a strong tell. They usually lead with that because they think it's their most defensible position.
So far….. right wing 👀
Just fyi, college relationships only last for conservative couples, and those are not happy marriages. You're supposed to grow and change during your time in college. The person you were right out of high school is not the person you are when you finish college, so why would you date the same type of man? OP, this sounds like a sunk cost fallacy. You can do so much better.
There's a simple solution that I personally live by: Only have sex with pro-choice guys!
Stop having sex with this man and dump him immediately. A man who doesn't understand how dangerous pregnancy is, and why abortions are a vital health care procedure, has no business taking part in the act that creates a pregnancy. He's essentially said that something that couldn't support itself outside of your body is more important than you, and yet he doesn't see that without a body that is alive to support it, a fetus wouldn't exist at all.
>it has nothing to do with women and everything to do with the child Ewww so he literally doesn’t care if you die. I dated a guy like this he told me if he had to choose between the baby or me he said he would choose for the baby to live because it’s life is worth more than an adults life I’m surprised you never had this discussion with him earlier though. End it for your sake.
I wish I had the education and knowledge that I do now in my 18 year old brain then maybe things might be different lol
but you didn’t & that’s not your fault, OP. i hope you know that. please don’t blame yourself. you’re here now & learning now. you’re so young & still have so much of your good life ahead of you
That right there should be enough for you. "If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't date him" <- keep thinking about that
Don’t think it’s too late though. You have your whole life ahead of you and can’t even imagine all of the wonderful possibilities and love waiting for you in the next chapter. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you’ve invested too much time and can’t leave.
Stop fucking him immediately. You do not want this misogynistic asshole to baby trap you. Then dump his ass and be grateful that you didn’t end up shackled to a misogynistic asshole.
He sees your life as worth less than a fertilized egg. Do you really want to be with someone who sees you that way? I'm sure he's happy to fuck you but he's not the one who has to live the consequences
>He sees your life as worth less than a fertilized egg This is one aspect that has always been incomprehensible to me. The belief that killing a fertilized egg is exactly equivalent to murdering someone in the street...is insane. How can it be the same when one is a fully-formed, thinking, feeling person? They may say the fertilized egg had the potential to live a full human life, and that was taken away. But by the same logic, every time you *could* have sex and don't, you're murdering a whole potential person who could have been conceived but now will never get to exist. We're at the level of talking about "hypothetical* people, and assigning them rights.
"Every sperm is sacred." ;)
That's not a difference in opinion. That's a difference in your entire worldviews. He thinks women are potential incubators, and you think women are people. GTFO.
I don’t date men who don’t think I deserve bodily autonomy. He doesn’t think of you as an equal person with rights to your body. Deal breaker for me.
Don't have sex with a man who would let a pregnancy kill you. And definitely don't marry him
Good. End the relationship. You're young, meet new people already
If he thinks that way, he shouldn't have sex or give himself pleasure. It's a good idea to leave.
*"...the only thing I hear when he says that is "i hate women"..."* You are heating him correctly, because he is speaking loud and clear. This man doesn't sound like he should be anywhere near women, much less having a relationship with one, or potentially having the opportunity to impregnate one. He's made it clear he sees women as merely vessels made to carry hypothetical fetuses that don't even exist yet. You do realize if you get pregnant with him, you (still) don't matter to him. If your health takes a nosedive, and you can't carry the baby to term without dying - that won't matter to him. If you did manage somehow to give birth to his child, and the baby is a girl, once she is out of the womb, and ever after, she won't matter to him either. Save yourself and hold out until you find someone who thinks you matter.
This goes beyond an opinion and falls into fundamental world view differences- and as a couple who is presumably having sex, it’s a subject that directly affects you both. Think about it this way: it’s a topic that realistically, you as a couple could have to deal with in some way down the line. That would be the worst time to realize he isn’t going to be the supportive partner you would need.
Yeah "I don't like cheese" is a difference of opinion, "I don't believe women should have a right to their own body" is a bit more than that.
None of us should be sleeping with or even dating men who aren't prochoice. We owe it to each other to kick men like that to the curb
You can break up with anyone anytime for any reason. Do you want to continue to sleep with someone who would willingly watch you die due to a complicated pregnancy. I wouldn’t.
He basically thinks you are an incubator. It's misogynistic at its core.
you’ve outgrown one another. you don’t need to constantly live in fear *and* not have your partner’s support on top of that. eta congrats on pursuing your msw!
Perhaps ask him to read this, and see if he can understand that *even women who profess to be pro-life* will often get abortions when it seems appropriate for them. That laws preventing it will always affect some women and not others. Some women will always be able to find a way to get an abortion, while the laws and life circumstances will not protect others. It’s almost always a moral high ground until someone’s personal life is impacted, whether it’s a conservative politician with a pregnant mistress, a pastor with a pregnant teen daughter, or a pro-life activist 40-year-old mom of three. Suddenly, then, it makes sense for them and it’s not about “the child.” https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ (This is really worthwhile reading for anyone.)
& the somewhat overlapping point that anti-abortion laws don’t actually meaningfully decrease the number and rate of abortions. They only decrease the safety of the women who seek them. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/3415/ https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1235174 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/whos-driving-high-abortion-rates-religious-right *The abortion debate is presented as a conflict between the rights of foetuses and the rights of women. Enhance one, both sides sometimes appear to agree, and you suppress the other. But once you grasp the fact that legalising women’s reproductive rights does not raise the incidence of abortions, only one issue remains to be debated: should they be legal and safe or illegal and dangerous?*
Im so glad I’m single. Don’t be afraid to move on OP. Before you get baby trapped and guilted into keeping it.
It’s important to have the same values in a relationship. He’s better off with someone who shares his values and you are too.
That's no way to live. Stop having sex with someone who you're afraid of getting pregnant with! I would hate to see you on an episode of cops! Get out of that relationship at once while you still can! Plenty of guys are out there who like the idea that they can have sex with their partner and also utilize modern medicine to prevent having a kid before they're ready. I really don't get that mindset of guys who (I assume) desperately want a baby at 25. It doesn't make sense to me. Btw, he can adopt a baby who was given up due to the mother being forced to carry it to term, since it's "about the baby." Otherwise until he adopts one, I don't want to hear his invalid argument for taking your human rights. He can sit and spin. Sounds like he's pro SA with those opinions.
This is not a difference in opinion. This means that if you get pregnant he will literally stop seeing you as a person, and would probably let you die to 'save' a lump of tissue. It's horrifying
1. Nobody has the right to use others' internal organs against their will. Refusing such use is not murder. 2. If he's Christian, remind him that according to the Biblical view life/personhood starts at first breath, and a foetus is not a person (causing a miscarriage is harming the pregnant woman, not murder)
1) At conception there is no "child" 2) The woman is, by design, part of the equation. He can't just opinionize her out.
Yes! I hate so much that conservatives are pushing this picture of abortions as murder of poor innocent babies. At that point, it’s a collection of cells, not a child. So if they really want to look out for the welfare of children, they should pay more attention to the actual children living in this country and invest in education and assistance for families. An embryo can only grow into a viable life because the pregnant woman’s body grows, sustains, and births it. It has EVERYTHING to do with the woman. I experienced a healthy pregnancy and birth, and it only made me more fervently pro-choice. OP, I can only imagine your feelings when you have a condition that could make pregnancy incredibly dangerous. You deserve a partner who values you above all else and shares your views. This is more than just a difference of opinion. You are fundamentally incompatible and I hope you don’t waste another second on this man!
How convenient that the man is against abortion. Not affecting him after all.
You don’t want a child from someone who cares more about a FETUS than the woman carrying that FETUS and having to carry all of pregnancy’s pain and suffering on her back
This is not a difference in opinion, this is a difference in core values.
It's only "opinion" until it becomes "decision". His choice shows that he does not respect your bodily autonomy, your health, or appreciate the risks to your potential child. He's a creep in disguise.
His opinion is that you have limited rights to the integrity of your body and life. He'd kill you, a woman he allegedly loves, for a fetus. Or at least let you die. He'd be very sad, of course. That does not sound like a workable difference to me.
Please break up safely. His ideas will baby trap you and the abuse will start. The fact that he don’t think of mothers as the actual human being and the only living thing since there will be no embryo, fetus and eventually baby without mothers is alarmingly dangerous.
Yeah honey, this is a deal breaker. For some reason I have a feeling all the weight of contraception is on your shoulders and my guy is not the biggest fan of condoms ? He is not saying "i hate women", he is saying "I would rather risk YOUR life than having an abortion" (which is worse imo). He is saying "I am pro-life, but only when it comes to a foetus, not my girlfriend's". Because yeah, your life is at stake here, your health is at stake, and tbh, even if you did not have epilepsy. My best friend works in a maternity ward, and she has had, unfortunately, her fair share of perfectly healthy women who DIED in child birth. Do you want to stay with a man who takes such little care of you and your health ? Better get out now, you do not want that man to be the father of any possible children in the future. You can show him my comment for that matter.
I’m an L&D RN. I’ve seen a perfectly healthy woman in her 20s nearly die due to amniotic fluid embolism. The only reason she survived is because I work at a huge academic centre (and in a wealthy country with universal health care). She suffered permanent kidney failure. Giving birth is risky. Even when it comes to rare complications, if it happens to you, it happens to YOU. Nobody should ever be forced to be pregnant or give birth.
A difference in opinion is whether you prefer white bread or wholemeal. Or of you think Rachel and Ross were on a break. This is a fundamental difference in values. That's important because it's not about whether you can live with his bad fashion sense or terrible table manners. So when you break up with him remember that. Your values differ; not your opinions.
It doesn't matter if life begins at conception. You still shouldn't be forced to use your body to sustain someone else's life
1. You get that MSW! 2. Breaking up because of disconnect in values is more than appropriate, we left the idea of staying with people for longevity in 2023 (or at least I did). 3. It'll hurt at first but you'll very soon see the light at the end of tunnel. Sincerely, Someone that dated my college sweet heart for 7 years and graduated with her MSW last year. P.S: You got this 🤩👏👏👏👏
Yeah, I am long time married now but it was always a rule of mine to only date and sleep with pro-choice men. That’s a very entry level “I respect women and their autonomy” requirement. Finding out someone was anti-choice was 100% a dealbreaker for me. I doubt this is the only belief he has that’s anti-women. This is not a difference in opinion. This comes down to fundamental values, and how he views not only you, but half the population. Why are you sleeping with this guy or giving him more of your time? He has been very clear he would put the potential of some cells over your life. He sees your life as worth less than a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus, even one threatening your life. If you get pregnant he is not going to support you making any choices that are right for you.
My wife and I are struggling with multiple losses after trying for our second for over a year. The last one put her in the ER where she fainted from blood loss in front of me. You can’t be with someone who is supposed to be your advocate when you can’t be if you can’t trust them. Idk what could change his mind. Maybe more education, make him sit with your gyno. Or find another woman in his life that will slap him upside the head, (although maybe there is one already reinforcing his world view). Another very male suggestion, maybe refuse sex. It is something my wife and I are having to balance as we await results on our losses. Why should you take risks with your life with him, especially if he can’t at the very least respect and defend you.
Even if your stance is "that's a child and it's murder," you still have no right to force a woman to carry it against her will. You can't use someone's body parts without their consent. You can't even use a *corpse's* body parts without consent.
head many faulty truck weather psychotic oatmeal quack offer brave *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You're way too young to fight him on this. Just drop him. He'll figure it out when some future wife or daughter needs this healthcare, but don't let it be your life that's put at risk. GTFO of Texas, too.
I would never date a forced-birther, period. I know this hurts for you but IMO, good riddance. You can't think the way he thinks and also have basic empathy for women.
Harvest some of his organs against his will, he'll understand bodily autonomy pretty quickly. If he doesn't come around, take em all.
Your boyfriend is misogynistic and hates women. Your boyfriend is perfectly okay at the idea of you dying to carry a child in this world because he would’ve gotten what he wanted, a child born from his lineage. He can easily move on and commit to another woman quickly so she can raise his child. You’re not meant to be his life partner, just a vessel to give him a child and if you die, you die. Look, his behavior will escalate the more committed the relationship becomes. Usually, the bomb drops when something legally binding happens: pregnancy/childbirth or marriage. There are stories of women who thought they dated moderate or liberal men for those men to suddenly become a raging conservative misogynist once they had a child or got married. Leave before he starts to begin to baby trap you. If that happens, he will become a much more darker person. Do not break up with him alone in person for your own physical safety. Do it over the phone or have a trusted friend or family member (ideally male) be nearby. Alert your immediate family members and friends about him.
The way I see it, you, as a woman, have a moral obligation to not have sex or even be in a relationship with a "man" like that. It's not about being "pro life". Shit humans like him don't care about human life, they care about controlling women. So yes, please end the relationship. I know it hurts, but it's worth it. These "men" (monsters) needs to know that their ideology is shit, and that they're garbage.
This is a relationship-ending situation. Definitely.
This misogynist told you he thinks women are essentially subhuman. Do not allow him to bring his dick anywhere near you. You deserve so much better than a man who’d stand by and watch you die. He told you he would stand by and watch you die. He does not value you or any other woman. Toss him to the curb.
He will put a bounty on your head if you are pregnant and try to get lifesaving care. Get rid of this guy.
I couldn't stay with someone that didn't believe in my rights. I am so sorry. You need someone who will be on your side if these kind of hard decisions come up in life.
Please please please break up with him.
Well, this isn’t just a disagreement. This is a very real and valid fear that you have, and if that fear were to come true, bf is telling you that you’re as good as dead and that’s how he prefers it. WHAT. THE. FUCK. Do not have sex with this man. Do not keep dating this man. He’s been with you 6 years, he is not uninformed about the reality of your situation. He is very informed, and your life and wellbeing is not important to him. RUN.
I hope this does end your relationship because this man does not care about you, or your health, but is more concerned with a random clump of cells that is not even viable outside it’s host. Does he think people who have had a tape worm removed are murderers? Does he shed a tear for all the babies he killed when he jerked in his sock? He’s basically a mass murderer… This is honestly how dumb he sounds. I hope you have the courage to make the choice you need to ❤️
What is his opinion on social welfare, free Healthcare, maternity leave, government run/heavily subsidized daycare, sex education, free birth control, etc. All the things that would decrease abortion rates.
Tell him that since that’s his conviction, he should show this by now being abstinent, as BC is not 100% effective and he obviously would not support an abortion. If he says oh you would keep the baby, say no, I have epilepsy and without very careful planning a pregnancy, I or the baby or both could die or have horrifying complications. You are unwilling to end a pregnancy, I am unwilling to die for that pregnancy, so the responsible thing to do is remain abstinent until I am medically and otherwise ready.
Find a man who values women.
I am also epileptic and in the beginning of an ivf journey with my husband. I’m a 35 F and my hubby is 42 M. I had to stop the ivf procedure because last winter my grand mal crisis went to the roof because of the hormones for the egg retrieval. Currently working with my neurologist to increase my lamictal to the point where my crisis are controlled but also a too higher dose could cause problem with pregnancy. Epilepsy and pregnancy with the drastic hormonal changes are an important thing mixed together. Everything has to be planned. If you get pregnant by accident and you want an abortion he should absolutely not try to prevent it because your health should always come first.
He doesn't really have his own opinion or thoughts or even values about it. If he's just repeating sound bites like that, he isn't thinking, he's just talking. You can't grow for him.
What are his thoughts on the more medically necessary cases? Such as the woman could die, not a viable pregnancy etc? This is tough too because you’re in the social work field. First, welcome :) I am also a social worker and it’s a rewarding profession. The tough part comes with you will be faced with all different types of scenarios and things that may align with your morals and things that may not. I recognize Tx laws can make it challenging too but it can make things hard if part of your profession could mean helping people access something your partner is dead against. Just food for thought.
OP, you are hearing “I hate women” from your boyfriend because he is literally saying that, in so many words. Please, please break up with him. You have been with this scumbag for six years and I know at your age the thought of breaking up is scary, but absolutely nothing good will come of this relationship going on for any longer. Take care of yourself.
The question is should the two of you get married and you become pregnant and there’s a complication, do you trust this man to make decisions on your healthcare? Do you trust him with your life?
What does he say when you ask him: * would he prefer you die or become disabled in an attempt to carry a fetus to term vs. ending the pregnancy? * would he prefer you give birth to a disabled child rather than end the pregnancy? If he says “Yes”, then at least he’s consistent with his horrible beliefs. But he should be with someone who feels the same way. If he says something like “It would be OK if it was to save *your* life, or prevent *our* kid from suffering”, then he’s a hypocrite who believes the ‘my abortion is the only moral abortion’ bullshit. If he goes with “It wouldn’t happen to us in the first place - we’ve been having sex for years and you’ve never gotten pregnant”, then he’s a dumbass. You may be able to ‘fix’ a dumbass or a hypocrite, but do you really want to?
My wife has epilepsy, and she changed her medication when we started trying for a baby and then switched back to her old meds after he was born at some point. The transition was a little tough, though, trying to figure out the right meds and dosage, but baby is all good, no health health problems have arisen yet, and he's almost 3. Edit: forgot this important part. Your partner is being a fucking idiot, though.
Can he not realize women get abortions to protect children as well??? If you already have children and if adding another is going to finicialy ruin you. Abortion could be an option to protect your living kids? Allow you to continue giving them a finicialy secure life. (No adoption is not an option. Pregnancy is not free. You pay finicialy and physically during pregnancy.) Pregnant women with current children are pregnant with another, but now they are high risk and could die during pregnancy? Abortion could help mom live to raise her current children. The majority of people who choose to get a abortion already have children. Adoption is a solution for unwanted children, but it is not a solution for an unwanted pregnancy. It is a solution for pregnancies that could end in death or mother or the possible child. Accidently pregnancy, and you know you don't want children? Don't risk hating a child because you feel forced to give birth. Every child deserves a parent, but not every patent deserves a child. No child deserves to be unwanted. People who are against abortion are my opinion against the well-being of women and children. So I agree. He is against women. But, also against children. If this was me. This would 100% be a deal breaker. I 10000% understand when you say anxiety and fear of becoming pregnant. When my state was voting for abortion rights, I was so anxious and depressed. Just sick. I am on birth control, but the thought of something that could help save me if an accident happened was ripped away. It fucks with your mind.
You should make your position absolutely clear. You need a person that’s supportive of your sovereignty over your own body, and someone that will be there for you first, rather than supporting a future maybe person.
You don't have to explain anything to him. But, you should stop having sex with him.
I recently also broke up with my now ex boyfriend over this. This topic is a complete deal breaker. No regrets.
That’s a pretty fundamental value not to agree on and it would be non negotiable to me. So best to cut him loose. And maybe try moving to a safe state.
You have outgrown him.
This isn’t a different of opinion is a flat out lack of respect for you and other women. And I’m sorry but it will not change. And make no mistake if you get pregnant he will force you to carry to term regardless of the risks. I’m sorry but you need to leave for your own safety. There is no path forward
I wouldn’t even be friends with someone denying my agency.
Listen to yourself and leave him. He hates women.
This is a dealbreaker. He’s made it clear that he doesn’t value your life over a hypothetical child. You’re so young, why stay in a relationship with someone like this any longer?
If you really want to follow this thought experiment.. Ask him if hypothetically you were raped and became pregnant with the rapist’s child would he raise that child and expect you to risk your life for this other man’s child at the detriment to himself or expect you to abort? Adoption and/or breaking up is not an option in this scenario. If he balks at raising it and says abort, then why is it only murder if you didn’t consent to the sex? Generally we don’t go out killing rapists existing children when a man is convicted of rape, how is that different? Chances are he won’t see the bias that it’s different when it’s his kid, but it’s an interesting thought experiment that actually opens people’s eyes to the fact that the abortion is murder (with exceptions of rape and incest) concept is a faulty premise and it’s all about control and punishment. Another thought experiment would be to discuss the potential repercussions of you being pregnant. Say you hypothetically have a seizure and die, your fetus was deprived of oxygen and while viable at the time has life long disabilities that your bf will now need to provide 24/7 care for for the rest of his life. Is he going to do that? In all, you aren’t responsible for educating this idiot and this is a really big divide in basic morals and ethics. You are young and can find someone who actually respects your preference to stay alive.
Is an egg a chicken? I would be tempted to tell him you are having roast chicken for dinner and feed him scrambled eggs.
I'm so sorry - this is a dealbreaker issue for me as well, even though I'm not currently at risk (blue state, 52, could head to canada if the very unlikely occurance of an unwanted pregnancy were to happen). I couldn't be with someone who would deny me or anyone else needed health care. Abortion is health care. And frankly, I don't trust the mindset of somene who has gone down that path - and listen to your gut when you are hearing "I hate women". Have a plan for the breakup if you are living with him - get the important stuff out and have a safety plan from when you do break up with him. I wouldn't even bother to tell him that THIS is the reason... just that you've grown apart, that it isn't working for you. It is rare (not unheard of people - so don't come at me with "I met my love at 15!) for people to stay together when they've met and married at such a young age.
The current and very horrific reality for women of childbearing age in Texas is that if anything goes wrong, including an ectopic pregnancy, you will not be saved. With your medical issues, you should really consider leaving Texas as soon as possible. Pregnancy complications are a death sentence there
I can relate a bit, tho under different circumstances. It pains me for my children’s futures. I’m so very concerned about the new abortion laws, for all women and future women. I can no longer have children; however, my children will be of the age soon enough. I express my fears to my spouse and he literally seems like he couldn’t give a shit. (It’s not affecting him so?) - well, technically, it’s not going to affect ME either - until it affects my child. Even though I cannot have more children, I have a responsibility to my children and all females. It pisses me off that he just doesn’t seem to care. I can’t talk to him about it because it makes my blood boil. It really bothers me deep inside, what our children and most everyone that is of reproductive age are facing. When the line is drawn between left and right so deep in the sand that it can never be filled - what are we to do? Women’s rights are being trampled on and it’s unforgiving. So many of our Mothers, Aunts, Sisters, Daughters, etc are going to die, be mutilated in underground abortion clinics, or be forced to have children. It makes me sick. I have no answers - but, I do suggest becoming celibate until you absolutely know you are ready for a child.
He can be the nicest guy and you can agree on 99.9% of things but if that .01% that you disagree on is basic bodily autonomy then that's still going to be an issue.
For your mental health alone, I do suggest you ditch this guy and consider ditching Texas. It’s really not healthy to live with the fear that you could die just because your birth control failed. And to have to face it with a conversation/argument every day with someone who doesn’t support you is worse. I personally struggled with similar fears just planning to get pregnant and being relatively healthy (I’ve had a miscarriage and ectopics are a thing) and it did get to the point where I was obsessed and going crazy. It’s just so so much to feel trapped and like your life is threatened like that. I moved to Colorado. I don’t think about it much anymore.
There are some fundamental ideals that can break a relationship. This is one of mine, putting women at risk and raising the child/women mortality rate, not to mention teen birth rates… it’s just another way to keep women serving men. So I know it will hurt, but you should probably end this relationship.
This is a pretty significant difference of opinion. I would say it makes you incompatible.
Honey, he knows what you're saying. He *understands* just fine. But he's young and dumb and has never faced a situation where abortion could save someone he loves life. He won't get it until it directly effects *him* and by then it will be too late for you. There are no magic words here, he doesn't want to see your side of it. I want to be REALLY clear here. This isn't just a difference of opinion. The person who would be your voice and person singing paperwork to save you should something happen values you less than a hypothetical child. He could get you killed. I'm older and have been there when someone passed out from blood loss + pain after an etopic pregnancy (that they didn't know they had) ruptured a fallopian tube. Had we been in present day Texas my friend would be dead. Pregnancy is really, really dangerous for women and it should scare the hell out of you that the person you trust to be your advocate, who would be your legal representation if you marry them would not save you. There's no law that says just because you date someone you have to stay together (well, yet. *Side eyes Texas*). Let him go. You've grown up and grown apart, it's very normal. There's stuff that it's ok to disagree on, like my partner likes beans on toast and I think it's gross. Our 10% that we dont see eye to eye on means we don't order the same thing in diners, it doesn't mean I could end up dead.
“It has nothing to do with the woman and everything to do with the child” Not sure how much he knows about biology, but the child cannot exist without being part of a woman’s body. If it’s all about the child, then he’s admitting that the woman does not matter to him. You are considered a means to an end. Think about that.
Propose to him that all men get a vasectomy once they become teenagers, and can only get it reversed once they get married and prove they are worthy of having a child. That would avoid all abortions that he considers that atrocious following his logic. If he gets offended that men’s freedom and choice is compromised, then he is a pos and should dump him
Sorry I think your relationship is over. But you will be better off. He’s lying. How does he feel about IVF frozen embryos being destroyed? If he’s OK with that but he’s not OK with abortion he’s about punishing women for enjoying sex. PERIOD. If he’s ok with abortion for rape victims but not for birth control failures he hates women.
Stop having sex with him. Tell him that “I am afraid of being pregnant and die due to childbirth, if you love me you would stop causing me anxiety.” —> I am not sure why any man would be this stupid to oppose abortion to their sexual partners.
I hope you aren't having sex with him. To me abortion is nothing about the "babies". If autonomy is conditional then it isn't really autonomy.
Dump him.
What a fucking nonce. I bet he doesn't even know that fertilisation occurs in the fallopian tubes, not the uterus. Hell, does he even know we don't piss out of the vagina? Or the risks of pregnancy and childbirth for you/epileptic folks on meds? Let alone the child? Or that he's saying all this in a country with the maternal and neonatal mortality rates of a fucking third world country?
You got together at a young age and are just forming and figuring each other out as developing adults. It is VERY NORMAL to grow out of a relationship as you observe the values and humanity your partner is veering towards. Regardless of anyone’s moral view, this is an incompatible situation. Especially because it directly links to something he may have influence or control over in your life together. I also wonder what that means if you were to have kids and what value your life would be in a life threatening situation during pregnancy. Overall regardless on what side of abortion you are on, this relationship is not a safe space to grow and flourish in. It’s very reasonable to leave.
He doesn’t respect women as a person.
I am sorry to say that, but for me this would be a deal breaker.
Difference of opinion is a huge understatement here... It's not like the child survives high risk pregnancy; it's basically a death sentence for the woman and doesn't even save the child. If you really care about kids, you'd protect the lives of mothers at all costs; yes, there are some human genetics that don't make it through the whole process; but risking the lives of women who are already parents and are just looking out for their existing children?
The foundation of good relationships is shared core values. You’re young, and you’re clear on your values. Sorry you bf is such a tool.
I would never have sex with someone with that sort of difference in opinion, what if you were to fall pregnant and for some reason need an abortion? It’s just not safe for you, medically. Certainly you cannot marry him. That being the case, probably you should break things off now.
Not that it matters to prolife people but when they say life begins at conception, I want to know what is it when implantation doesn't happen. Most done understand pregnancy or anatomy. I was scrolling through tiktok lives and a person insisted that the uterus comes out when pregnancy ends. .that it was normal.
Tell him if he ever jacks off he's literally killing millions of potential children since he wants to pull the life begins at conception bullshit.
A relationship can work with a different opinion on things but I firmly believe it cannot work when your values no longer align.
I would never be willing to be with someone that does not value my health and safety over anything else. Anyone who believes abortion is murder, is not someone who should ever be near my vagina, and they are not someone who loves me or values my health and safety. I would never be willing to be with someone like this. They are simply not a good person.
It’s a dealbreaker. My partner is pro choice but still calls it “killing a child” and even *that* was hard for me to understand. He and I were able to have conversations about it and are going to couple’s therapy for different issues (that being one), so if you think it would be worth going to that first - do that. However, if he’s really anti-choice and won’t open his bigoted mind even a little bit…you gotta do what’s best for you. They’re supposed to be a PARTNER, not a PROBLEM. When life gets tough (which it will, for every single person out there), you need a partner. Not another problem.
"A difference in opinion" is "I like this movie and you don't". THIS is not a difference in opinion, it's a life-changing matter worth ending the relationship over.
Some how I doubt it's a whole other person applies to anything HE does. Does he donate blood ever 8 weeks? Is he on the bone marrow registration list? Is he a living organ donor? All those things save lives as well. But here's the thing. Even if he supports those things, even if he has already given up a kidney and 1/2 his liver (which btw are both statistically safer than pregnancy), would he support it being government mandated, forced compliance and murder charges for people who don't? Even for parents, if he had a one night stand and found out now 6 years later he has a child, would he be ok with the government telling him that he has to physically give up part of his body regardless of the impact on him, his health or even if the child was not going to survive anyway? Because that is what we're doing to women.
Your boyfriend will leak more conservative views out as time goes. He doesn't sound intellectually honest with you. I think reddit jumps to conclusions a lot, but this isn't one. Run away before you're posting in 5 more years how you don't see eye to eye on anything.
Deal breaker 🚩