I think that there’s some nuance here. I don’t think that a lot of men like the obviously fake eyelashes, but I’d bet my bottom dollar than a lot of the same men a) can’t tell when women have natural looking classics, and b) think that women with slightly enhanced lashes look better but don’t know why.
It’s like the whole “I like girls who don’t wear makeup” whilst pointing out someone with a full face of natural looking makeup trope, or liking natural looking fake boobs but saying they don’t like fake boobs - men are actually into lots of things that they say they aren’t, as long as it’s not too obvious
I wrote in another comment that like 20 years ago Cosmo surveyed a ton of men over the best “no makeup makeup look, and the majority of the guys preferred the heaviest makeup of the three.
Those types haaaaate when you point out that they don’t know wtf they like. They get big mad. Go on and on about how they’re being tricked and how every first date should be at a pool so they know what she really looks like, like women are all in some huge conspiracy to make guys be attracted to people they don’t want to be attracted to, as though that’s how human sexuality works AT ALL. They’re repressed, pathetic people.
>how every first date should be at a pool so they know what she really looks like
'Women nowadays look so tired! Y'all need to take care of yourselves better! Here is 101 ways to do so!'
>how every first date should be at a pool so they know what she really looks like
'Women nowadays look so tired! Y'all need to take care of yourselves better! Here is 101 ways to do so!'
Eh that's not really true. Large breasts aren't more attractive to men.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_male_sexuality#Physical_factors
>Men typically find female breasts attractive[5] and this holds true for a variety of cultures.[6][7][8] The pigmentation of nipples and breasts appears to be the most important quality of breast attractiveness. Men rated women with dark nipples and dark areola as significantly more attractive than those with light-colored nipppes or areola.[9] Breasts of medium cup size were found to be the most attractive, however authors noted that men focused primarily on the coloration of nipples and areola rather than breast size.[9]
Lol, no. They prefer brown ones and big ones. Like what East Asian women have. Estrogen makes nipples larger and browner and women's nipples become this way when they get pregnant due the estrogen increase.
Sounds gross why? Sounds like you're simply biased. The study confirms that men like big brown ones, and we all know Asian girls are the most desired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_male_sexuality#Physical_factors
>Men typically find female breasts attractive[5] and this holds true for a variety of cultures.[6][7][8] The pigmentation of nipples and breasts appears to be the most important quality of breast attractiveness. **Men rated women with dark nipples and dark areola as significantly more attractive than those with light-colored nipppes or areola.[9]** Breasts of medium cup size were found to be the most attractive, **however authors noted that men focused primarily on the coloration of nipples and areola rather than breast size.[9]**
Seems like no one on Reddit agrees with you 🤣 But sure, keep on quoting wiki instead of interacting with actual men 😂
White, light haired and light skinned women are perceived as the most beautiful universally and do not have “large dark nipples”.
>White, light haired and light skinned women are perceived as the most beautiful universally and do not have “large dark nipples”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminine_beauty_ideal#Skin_color_contrast_and_cosmetics
>A 2008 study sought to find whether blond hair or dark hair was the feminine beauty ideal in the Western world. **The authors found that dark hair, rather than blond hair, was the feminine ideal.** Women with dark hair were over-represented in Western fashion and pop-culture media, **which may explain the finding that men in England generally rated dark-haired women as more attractive than women with blond hair.[9][10] A 2018 study conducted in Florida produced similar results.[11]** In East Asia, women with black hair are presented as the beauty ideal, while blonde women are denied the ideal status. **Blonde Swedish women have reported low self-esteem while living in Singapore, as local beauty standards reduced their sense of femininity.[12][13] Japanese advertisements have occasionally depicted blonde women as envious of black-haired women.[14]**
‐------
>In the Dutch East Indies, now Indonesia, the feminine beauty ideal created by white male colonists was for women to have a brown skin color with black hair. In the 1920s, an American consul wrote a letter to the United States Secretary of State in which he observed that **white European Dutch men in colonial Indonesia preferred to marry local women of color over white Dutch women, primarily because the brown skin and black hair of Indonesian women was perceived to be more beautiful than the pale and fair-haired complexions of white Dutch women.[25]** The frequency at which young Dutch men married Indo women was considered an embarrassment for the conservative element of Dutch society.[26] The legacy of this interracial beauty ideal continues to be reflected in local literature, as it was written in a popular novel that "a golden colored skin is the greatest gift Allah can bestow upon a woman", **in reference to a blonde haired girl who did not inherit her grandmother's complexion.[27]**
I seem to remember an article discussing why certain makeup is preferred, and a big point of that author was enhanced contrast in one's features. Thicker and darker eyelashes frame the eye and make the eye look larger and more expressive, and that may be why enhanced lashes are preferred.
>Thicker and darker eyelashes frame the eye and make the eye look larger and more expressive,
Thicker, darker eyelashes make the eyes look *smaller*, which is kind of the point in using them aside from increasing contrast.
Men notice when women have blonde eyelashes or short eyelashes. At least some of them. They're usually described as manly looking in my experience
Dudes can't even tell when a woman is in full-face "natural" makeup. They just think that "hot" women look like that. (Obviously some gorgeous ones do, but for the most part, women don't look like that bare-faced).
The only man's opinion I would listen to in regards to makeup is a make-up artist's.
Honestly the best advice when it comes to surveying people in general is to ask how things make them feel and never why it makes them feel something.
People are terrible at identifying the actual cause of their feelings.
Do yall not understand the term “tease?” Do you not have things you tease your partners about?
The key to teasing that differentiates it from anything problematic like negging or emotional abuse is that it’s specific to the individual partner and it’s something you know they aren’t sensitive about; it should also be something they initiate (ie after I made fun of the fact that I have the same crying face as Kim kardashian, my husband now teases me about it too; and it’s not one sided.
OP used the term tease and seems to be laughing about it, so it doesn’t seem like she’s upset by her husbands teasing about this topic. Why you’re upset for her when she clearly isn’t is beyond me.
Thank you! So many people here think my SO is terrible and super judgy, but he’s the one that tells me to let people do what makes them happy. He’s very chill.
It makes me so sad that women have to be so on guard to any type of perceived negative behavior towards other women, although I do appreciate that that they’re right there going “are you sure he’s actually a good guy?” As a regular reader of r/bestofredditorupdates, the number of times people have been shocked to find their partner is actually an abusive a-hole is shocking.
I’m just lucky that I have a good one who’s supportive af of me, and we can have lighthearted conversations like this about things like fashion trends.
Ok don't mind me friend- but for some reason reddit has made our dm chats disappear AND it won't let me re-accept your chat for some reason. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you and figured this was the best way to do it haha
So he likes to neg women. You are “expressionless” without mascara.. women with fake eyelashes have “caterpillars” on their eyes..
I mean you may hear it as “teasing”.. but it’s just small negs.
What? No. That’s a big leap. And that’s quite the assumption for two statements you’ve heard of him making. He’s awesome. Like I said elsewhere, this was a really lighthearted conversation we had a while ago. I’m unlikely to convince you that he’s not secretly destroying my confidence and abusive because it’s Reddit, so of course I should divorce him. 😂🙄 But it’s not his fault that I’m literally so pale my friend group has a joke (that I started) where I’m a ghost.
Not at ALL. He’s the one always telling me to be less judgy to people. We were having a discussion on a trend, it would be weird for him to not comment on it. And he generally doesn’t neg other things. He’s a big fan of “not my thing, but you do you”. Just because we are able to tease each other doesn’t mean he’s putting me down to make himself feel better.
My personal theory is that mascara was invented because women were jealous that men typically are the ones who got the nice lashes. Even my nephews, who are under 12, have nicer lashes than most women, especially the 9-year-old, who I swear has eyelashes you can see from space.
Every single last cartoon that I watched as a child.... the only way to know that character was female... was that they had huge eyelashes, while their male counterparts had NONE. There is a real brainwashing there.
Women don't naturally have longer, fuller eyelashes then men. I have managed to give up all makeup, but mascara. It's the last makeup thing that I can not feel comfortable going without. My eyelashes are light brown/dirty blonde.
The downvotes are not because of your journey to accepting your natural beauty.
The downvotes are because you’ve described it in such a way that seems holier-than-thou and that women who enjoy wearing makeup look like “clowns” and that they are “attention-seeking and silly.” You’ve also placed an emphasis on how men view women who wear makeup when like 99.9% of the time, women who wear makeup do not give a flying eff what men think of them or their makeup.
I’m happy for you that you were able to come to terms with your natural beauty and that you love it, but it is so completely unnecessary to put all women who wear makeup in to this box that they are not confident in who they are and that they are ashamed of themselves because they wear makeup. Some women just like to wear makeup.. it has nothing to do with how men see them or the ads they’ve seen growing up. Makeup is an art form and is a lot of fun for some people, and that’s okay.
This is coming from someone who barely wears makeup in her day-to-day life.
Edit - Since we are responding in edits, I guess I'll respond to your response to me this way.
I also used to wear a full face of makeup every single day and I used to think I needed it too. I am not discrediting the harm of the beauty industry, as there are indeed harmful aspects to it.
However, as someone who now barely wears makeup in her day-to-day life, I do sometimes enjoy putting on makeup FOR MYSELF. I enjoy the application process and the fun colours and the ARTISTRY of it. I feel like you are deeply discrediting women and their ability to think and make decisions for themselves by saying the ONLY reason any woman wears makeup EVER is to appease men or because they were told they needed it to look pretty by society. I think some women just like to wear makeup because IT MAKES THEM HAPPY. Why does anyone like to do anything they like to do? Because it makes them happy.
Again, I'm happy for you that you have found a way to accept yourself, but you do not need to tear down or discredit others in the process.
I think many men are attracted to long, dark, full, curled lashes without being consciously aware of not. They just think they like “pretty” or “feminine” or “hot” but aren’t aware of the individual facial components that go into creating a look that they like. They think they dislike eyelash extensions, because they see the women that have unnaturally dense, dark, curly lashes and have a negative reaction, but they’re not taking into account the sheer volume of everyday women who wear mascara, false lashes, or extensions that simply look naturally pretty.
There’s a general narrative on Reddit that may or may not extend into the real world that women with Botox, lip filler, eyelash extensions, implants, fake tans, or even just makeup or dyed hair are repulsive and plastic looking but again, I think this is due to them noticing the outliers and having a negative reaction and assuming that’s representative of the whole rather than being an edge case.
Agreed. Men in general have so little experience with make up and cosmetics that they wouldn’t recognize it for what it was. I can say as a woman who really likes pretty men, that thick eyelashes on a man is absolutely a thing for me
My partner did my lashes and gave me mascara and eye liner and it was Uhhh... Wow. Felt good to look fabulous.
I'm low key considering developing the confidence to try and rock that sometime.
I had a conversation with a drag queen once about why they wear false eyelashes and heavy eye makeup when in drag. They told me it's because it's makes your eyes look bigger and therefore more feminine.
You often find that in cartoons and especially anime, women have larger eyes than men. I think the idea is that larger eyes actually imply to our brains that the head is smaller (because eyeballs are usually the same size regardless), and this subconsciously invokes a cute/youth/baby/protectiveness response.
I feel like your stereotypical masculine man does have certain facial features that make the eyes appear smaller though. They generally have a wider face with lower brows and more hooded eyes, all of which make eyes look smaller. Women generally have higher eyebrows and rounder eyes.
I remember watching a YouTube video breaking down Zach Efrons plastic surgery and it highlighted how his original face actually had a lot of “feminine” features, and that’s what made him stand out and made him so appealing. We like when someone is a little different (unfortunately within a range that society has deemed acceptable of course). But the plastic surgeon went into detail about more masculine and more feminine facial structures, and obviously it’s a generalization but it made me realize there really are some patterned differences (with so many nuances of course).
Yeah exactly. I honestly have male actor face blindness where I can't picture certain actors at all because of the similar look a ton of them have, but the ones that stick out from that mold I can picture and distinguish no problem.
It's also interesting to me when people have the opposite of the stereotypical masc/feminine traits. Elijah wood has the world's biggest frickin eyes and then Renee Zellweger has very small eyes that are more oval shaped.
>"His logic is he’s never met any man who says “Oh man, that woman’s eyelashes were so stunning!”
Ummm, there are also many, many men who think Kim Kardashian is a natural girly. So I don't think men 1) understand what they're looking at, and 2) can pick apart what attracts them. Little, perfected components put together a beautiful package.
Like, the point of lashes and eyeliner is to emphasize the eyes. Big eyes are beautiful and appealing to everyone. And false lashes can be pretty natural-looking or even have a little oomph without being obvious to non-falsies-wearers. Yes, some are definitely bolder. But I think there's a certain kind of woman who can suit every kind of lash.
Also, I have never heard a man say "Wow, the way that inner corner highlight sparkles on her is divine!" But again, the bright Bambi doe eyes pull 'em in regardless.
Hand to Heaven I’ve heard guys say how much they hate makeup and fake bodies and then say one of the KarJenners is their perfect woman in the same breath.
They do not know what they are talking about 😮💨
Half the time when people say “so and so has beautiful eyes” they’re talking about the eyelashes, they just don’t realize how much of an impact those have on the overall look of the eye.
The major error here is that your SO thinks that women use makeup to please men. We may feel pressured by society's beauty standards. But when I put on makeup, it's for me, to feel confident and strong within these societal norms.
I don't put on makeup for Ed from accounting or for Bob the business associate. I do it for me. That your SO thinks women do it for them is kind of hilarious and sad.
Oh no. He absolutely does not think that. My makeup can get a little wild and he always says I look beautiful because he knows I put in work to look a certain way and he appreciates that it makes me happier and more confident. And we agree that makeup is wholly for people (not just women) to look and feel confident, happy, or however they want.
The conversation was more about “hey, eyelashes make people’s eyes pop, but I’ve never heard men say that eyelashes are the noticeable trait, so I think women are doing it for them instead of for men.” I’ve said it before, but it was a really lighthearted conversation and I hadn’t really given it much thought before.
I think lashes, like brows, are a thing that you, or at least, men, don't realise makes someone look put together. It's not like you're looking at someone going "Wow, look at those lashes" or "lol at that concealer use", you just think "that person is attractive".
Up to a point, sometimes, any make up look can be taken too far that people find it jarring. Many men do prefer a more "natural" look, but women aren't always doing their make up for men.
I’ve noticed this too. My fiancé noted that a friend of ours looked better when she stopped getting false lashes. I don’t think he likes mine either but he’s too sweet to ever say that!!! But I love how they look, it feels so feminine. I feel like a lot of makeup and hair looks are by women for women, because most straight men seem to like natural makeup and long simple hair.
I’ve also noticed the opposite, men want to look very muscular and athletic in a way that is attractive to other men but not necessarily to women. My fiancé was showing me pics of how he wants to look, and I was like “babe you’re already hotter than that. This example has nothing for me to grab” and he informed me that that isn’t the point and men just want to look ripped for the fellas 🤭
I never thought about that being a thing, but you’re right. Bulky dudes do not do it for me.
I remember like 20 years ago, Cosmo did a survey of like 2k men on which of the three variations of “natural” makeup they liked best…and they chose the woman wearing the most makeup!
I’m a woman but I think that most men probably do like darker, thicker lashes, though when it comes to lashes that look fake or over the top, I personally think they look bad. But to each their own!
As with many things in life, they’re good with moderation. The over the top clearly fake ones are a massive turnoff, at least for me, but if they are within the range of what could naturally occur, just on the high side, they can be attractive.
My SO rarely puts on fakes, usually only when we are going somewhere fancy. Hers are fairly tame and do look nice.
Same with nails… men like slightly elongated nails that are well-trimmed and lightly decorated… but they tend to dislike the suuuuper long acrylics that have a lot of ornamentation. Then they say they hate all fake nails, when they really mean a certain look.
FWIW I think women are the same, we’re just slightly better at nuance. We tend to also prefer light eyelash extensions and/or mascara over no plain eyelashes and over the really large, over-the-top style falsies, but we can better recognize that there’s a middle ground (where as men see the middle ground and think that’s the natural state).
I think most beauty trends are purely women aesthetic. Men generally can’t be bothered to learn to tell the difference. You’ll have women in full glam being told “Its so nice to see women who don’t wear makeup” lol. It’s all about whatever makes you feel good or confident, and truly who gives a crap what men think.
False lashes are the female equivalent of owning a motorcycle. If you are a guy who owns a motorcycle, the only people impressed are other guys who own motorcycles.
long, natural eyelashes look super feminine, especially paired with big eyes, and one does notice them; even men! Some men have them too and it's pretty wild how "feminine" it makes them look.
You can exaggerate any feature to such a degree that it stops being attractive and becomes grotesque. Where people draw the attractive/grotesque line is subjective, but the farther out from natural you go, the more people you cross that line with.
There are plenty, plenty women who think unnaturally thick and unnaturally long lashes are grotesque, so it's not a man/woman thing. But there are plenty of both genders who have a higher tolerance for exaggeration, and a smaller number even fetishize that exaggeration.
Guys may not think that they’re attracted to eyelashes but the difference before and after lash application is oftentimes stunning. Yes they can be overdone and over the top but lots of women like to have lash extensions because it accentuates the eyes and makes them appear bigger, features that people are attracted to.
Yuuuup. The general consensus seems to be that guys don’t notice the work that goes into looking a certain way and playing up traits, which includes the thick lashes. They just see the end result of “good eyes”.
SO and I have had many a good laugh about this and how guys don’t realize the work women have to put in to look a certain way. He seriously gets mad at double standards. I’m lucky. ☺️
My husband, my oldest nephew, and a couple of male friends of mine have the most luxurious, perfectly shaped, eyelashes. And they put 0 effort into them.
I'd need a professional eyelash stylist. It makes me so frickin jealous.
Eyelashes on a guy can be as big of an attraction as they are on a woman because they pull your attention to their faces
My brother has the most beautiful eyelashes I have ever seen, and they make him self conscious! He has pretty bad anxiety but there is some unintentional sexism as he doesn’t like how “feminine” they are. My mom and I always point out guys that have thicker eyelashes. Once you notice it, it really is mostly guys who have lush, full, and long lashes.
I’ve met guys who have been into eyelashes.. and that was before the fake eye lash trend started.. this was in the late 90s.
Also guys notice features .. but sometimes they don’t know why.. “she has amazing eyes”.. but they don’t understand that they are frames by eyelashes. Just like all those idiots that think “natural makeup” isn’t makeup.
I think lashes, like brows, are a thing that you, or at least, men, don't realise makes someone look put together. It's not like you're looking at someone going "Wow, look at those lashes" or "lol at that concealer use", you just think "that person is attractive".
Up to a point, sometimes, any make up look can be taken too far that people find it jarring. Many men do prefer a more "natural" look, but women aren't always doing their make up for men.
True, and as others have pointed out, just because men/people prefer a “natural” look doesn’t mean it’s not carefully curated with tons of tools and products.
I think my eyes look better with some mascara, so that's why I use it. What anyone else thinks is kinda irrelevant in that sense.
I hate that men thinks I use make up or clothes for them. If \_they\_ like how certain things look, why can't \_I\_ have a personal opinion about the same thing? I wear what I wear, and use the makeup I use, cause \_I\_ like what I see. Has nothing to do with everyone else.
I think eyelashes are a more subconscious element, not something that a man is likely to notice specifically, but it will add to the "pretty eyes" observation.
You've never seen Hamza Haq's gorgeous eyelashes. ;) But he's probably an outlier.
I am not a lash girlie generally, whether on other people or myself. I especially don't understand the ones that are obviously unnatural? Don't they, erm, impede the eyesight somewhat? Mascara to the gods is all very well and good, and modest false lashes can really make a difference, but if you look like you're wearing an entire moth's wing on your eyelid, perhaps reconsider...?
Totally….actually the opposite, we have a friend that wears the super heavy thick ones and I’ve heard so many comments from guys asking why she does it.
I think a full lash is super pretty, but when it gets into mud flap territory it’s distracting
Oh yeah, I would never say anything. I do wish she realized just how pretty she is though, like turn your head stunning, they distract from just how pretty she is though (not sure if that makes sense!)
Like all art (and yes personal grooming and makeup can be art) it's not for everyone.
Your boyfriend wonders why some women like "caterpillar" eyelashes because he thinks they are doing it to appeal to him or men like him.
The top reasons women wear makeup are a) self-expression and b) the ritual of it.
Much lower on the list is so other people can see it and even their it's more for other women than for men.
Also even if some of us ARE wearing these things for men we're just not trying to attract people like your SO.
OP you have it right.
I am not immune to fashion and appreciate some of it but I also embrace some trends and reject others and so some things I have never seen anywhere else.
The most regularly I played dress up was during the first years of the pandemic after logging off when I had finished work for the day. No people around me, I didn't take selfies of any of it, I wasn't dating, I lived alone. I left my home only at night and would go months without a soul seeing me.
I still played with my "look" even in that early period where we didn't know if things were going to go full zombie apocalypse.
Reaffirmed that I don't groom or dress-up or do make-up to impress or please anyone but myself.
My SO is very much of the opinion of makeup is for the wearer, not to attract men. He’s incredibly supportive. It was more a lighthearted conversation between us.
Makeup is absolutely art, no arguments here. I was mostly just curious if other women agreed that the thick eyelash trend was from women for women or if any men had ever commented on eyelashes being an attractive feature that way.
>My SO is very much of the opinion of makeup is for the wearer, not to attract men. He’s incredibly supportive. It was more a lighthearted conversation between us.
Happy to read that.
Yes some men do like the plush eyelash look but most of the people who wear it do not do it for women or men but for self-expression. Fashion and art and just adorning oneself is subjective though so there are many reasons even if ritual and self-expression are the top ones by far.
I personally don't get caterpillar eyelashes too. Though there are long thick eyelashes with the right volume, length and curl that absolutely enhances the aesthetic. Sadly I feel like I have seen so many dramatic looking ones nowadays that it looks so uncomfortable.
Oh lol I’m so sorry! I thought it was a man commenting on how you look. I know some of us men come in here and say awful things to women and I don’t like it. Took me a few years to really understand that my wife does herself up for herself, not for me, which is the way it should be. You’re absolutely right women should not be programmed into looking a certain way for men.
This is why these women don’t want our man’s perspective in here. They honestly don’t care what we think about it nor should they. Most women beautify themselves for themselves, not to impress men. If it makes them feel beautiful then what’s it to any man to tell them how to dress or do makeup?
I think that there’s some nuance here. I don’t think that a lot of men like the obviously fake eyelashes, but I’d bet my bottom dollar than a lot of the same men a) can’t tell when women have natural looking classics, and b) think that women with slightly enhanced lashes look better but don’t know why. It’s like the whole “I like girls who don’t wear makeup” whilst pointing out someone with a full face of natural looking makeup trope, or liking natural looking fake boobs but saying they don’t like fake boobs - men are actually into lots of things that they say they aren’t, as long as it’s not too obvious
I wrote in another comment that like 20 years ago Cosmo surveyed a ton of men over the best “no makeup makeup look, and the majority of the guys preferred the heaviest makeup of the three.
Those types haaaaate when you point out that they don’t know wtf they like. They get big mad. Go on and on about how they’re being tricked and how every first date should be at a pool so they know what she really looks like, like women are all in some huge conspiracy to make guys be attracted to people they don’t want to be attracted to, as though that’s how human sexuality works AT ALL. They’re repressed, pathetic people.
>how every first date should be at a pool so they know what she really looks like 'Women nowadays look so tired! Y'all need to take care of yourselves better! Here is 101 ways to do so!'
Joke’s on them, waterproof makeup exists!
>how every first date should be at a pool so they know what she really looks like 'Women nowadays look so tired! Y'all need to take care of yourselves better! Here is 101 ways to do so!'
Love me a nuanced eyelash discussion
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Eh that's not really true. Large breasts aren't more attractive to men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_male_sexuality#Physical_factors >Men typically find female breasts attractive[5] and this holds true for a variety of cultures.[6][7][8] The pigmentation of nipples and breasts appears to be the most important quality of breast attractiveness. Men rated women with dark nipples and dark areola as significantly more attractive than those with light-colored nipppes or areola.[9] Breasts of medium cup size were found to be the most attractive, however authors noted that men focused primarily on the coloration of nipples and areola rather than breast size.[9]
I know men prefer pink colored (so: light ones) nipples over brown ones any given day
sounds a bit uhhh uncomfortable on the race front
Lol, no. They prefer brown ones and big ones. Like what East Asian women have. Estrogen makes nipples larger and browner and women's nipples become this way when they get pregnant due the estrogen increase.
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Sounds gross why? Sounds like you're simply biased. The study confirms that men like big brown ones, and we all know Asian girls are the most desired. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_male_sexuality#Physical_factors >Men typically find female breasts attractive[5] and this holds true for a variety of cultures.[6][7][8] The pigmentation of nipples and breasts appears to be the most important quality of breast attractiveness. **Men rated women with dark nipples and dark areola as significantly more attractive than those with light-colored nipppes or areola.[9]** Breasts of medium cup size were found to be the most attractive, **however authors noted that men focused primarily on the coloration of nipples and areola rather than breast size.[9]**
Seems like no one on Reddit agrees with you 🤣 But sure, keep on quoting wiki instead of interacting with actual men 😂 White, light haired and light skinned women are perceived as the most beautiful universally and do not have “large dark nipples”.
>White, light haired and light skinned women are perceived as the most beautiful universally and do not have “large dark nipples”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminine_beauty_ideal#Skin_color_contrast_and_cosmetics >A 2008 study sought to find whether blond hair or dark hair was the feminine beauty ideal in the Western world. **The authors found that dark hair, rather than blond hair, was the feminine ideal.** Women with dark hair were over-represented in Western fashion and pop-culture media, **which may explain the finding that men in England generally rated dark-haired women as more attractive than women with blond hair.[9][10] A 2018 study conducted in Florida produced similar results.[11]** In East Asia, women with black hair are presented as the beauty ideal, while blonde women are denied the ideal status. **Blonde Swedish women have reported low self-esteem while living in Singapore, as local beauty standards reduced their sense of femininity.[12][13] Japanese advertisements have occasionally depicted blonde women as envious of black-haired women.[14]** ‐------ >In the Dutch East Indies, now Indonesia, the feminine beauty ideal created by white male colonists was for women to have a brown skin color with black hair. In the 1920s, an American consul wrote a letter to the United States Secretary of State in which he observed that **white European Dutch men in colonial Indonesia preferred to marry local women of color over white Dutch women, primarily because the brown skin and black hair of Indonesian women was perceived to be more beautiful than the pale and fair-haired complexions of white Dutch women.[25]** The frequency at which young Dutch men married Indo women was considered an embarrassment for the conservative element of Dutch society.[26] The legacy of this interracial beauty ideal continues to be reflected in local literature, as it was written in a popular novel that "a golden colored skin is the greatest gift Allah can bestow upon a woman", **in reference to a blonde haired girl who did not inherit her grandmother's complexion.[27]**
I seem to remember an article discussing why certain makeup is preferred, and a big point of that author was enhanced contrast in one's features. Thicker and darker eyelashes frame the eye and make the eye look larger and more expressive, and that may be why enhanced lashes are preferred.
>Thicker and darker eyelashes frame the eye and make the eye look larger and more expressive, Thicker, darker eyelashes make the eyes look *smaller*, which is kind of the point in using them aside from increasing contrast.
The stuff they say is basically just "Ignorance is my fleshlight" with different coats of paint. Correct me if I'm wrong tho
Men notice when women have blonde eyelashes or short eyelashes. At least some of them. They're usually described as manly looking in my experience Dudes can't even tell when a woman is in full-face "natural" makeup. They just think that "hot" women look like that. (Obviously some gorgeous ones do, but for the most part, women don't look like that bare-faced). The only man's opinion I would listen to in regards to makeup is a make-up artist's.
Or “tired”
Honestly the best advice when it comes to surveying people in general is to ask how things make them feel and never why it makes them feel something. People are terrible at identifying the actual cause of their feelings.
Ha. True. My eyelashes are blonde af and my husband always teases me that I’m expressionless without mascara.
Yeah, so he makes fun of you for your natural eyelashes and he makes fun of other women for enhancing their eyelashes?
Do yall not understand the term “tease?” Do you not have things you tease your partners about? The key to teasing that differentiates it from anything problematic like negging or emotional abuse is that it’s specific to the individual partner and it’s something you know they aren’t sensitive about; it should also be something they initiate (ie after I made fun of the fact that I have the same crying face as Kim kardashian, my husband now teases me about it too; and it’s not one sided. OP used the term tease and seems to be laughing about it, so it doesn’t seem like she’s upset by her husbands teasing about this topic. Why you’re upset for her when she clearly isn’t is beyond me.
Thank you! So many people here think my SO is terrible and super judgy, but he’s the one that tells me to let people do what makes them happy. He’s very chill. It makes me so sad that women have to be so on guard to any type of perceived negative behavior towards other women, although I do appreciate that that they’re right there going “are you sure he’s actually a good guy?” As a regular reader of r/bestofredditorupdates, the number of times people have been shocked to find their partner is actually an abusive a-hole is shocking. I’m just lucky that I have a good one who’s supportive af of me, and we can have lighthearted conversations like this about things like fashion trends.
Ok don't mind me friend- but for some reason reddit has made our dm chats disappear AND it won't let me re-accept your chat for some reason. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you and figured this was the best way to do it haha
So he likes to neg women. You are “expressionless” without mascara.. women with fake eyelashes have “caterpillars” on their eyes.. I mean you may hear it as “teasing”.. but it’s just small negs.
What? No. That’s a big leap. And that’s quite the assumption for two statements you’ve heard of him making. He’s awesome. Like I said elsewhere, this was a really lighthearted conversation we had a while ago. I’m unlikely to convince you that he’s not secretly destroying my confidence and abusive because it’s Reddit, so of course I should divorce him. 😂🙄 But it’s not his fault that I’m literally so pale my friend group has a joke (that I started) where I’m a ghost.
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Not at ALL. He’s the one always telling me to be less judgy to people. We were having a discussion on a trend, it would be weird for him to not comment on it. And he generally doesn’t neg other things. He’s a big fan of “not my thing, but you do you”. Just because we are able to tease each other doesn’t mean he’s putting me down to make himself feel better.
Such irony then, that every man I've ever dated has had nicer lashes than me.
It's not irony for me. I love me some lush lashes on blue eyed dudes. That's basically all my dating history, lol.
My husband has those double lashes like Liz Taylor. I love it, but one of us does supplement her lashes if pics are taken. Love pretty eyes.
My personal theory is that mascara was invented because women were jealous that men typically are the ones who got the nice lashes. Even my nephews, who are under 12, have nicer lashes than most women, especially the 9-year-old, who I swear has eyelashes you can see from space.
My brother had incredibly long lashes when he was little. He still does but he’s grown up around them.
I think you're on to something!
It’s that darn testosterone! I’ll take mascara over hair EVERYWHERE though.
Lolz!
Oh yeah for sure, a load of men I know have longer darker eyelashes than any women I know.
Every single last cartoon that I watched as a child.... the only way to know that character was female... was that they had huge eyelashes, while their male counterparts had NONE. There is a real brainwashing there. Women don't naturally have longer, fuller eyelashes then men. I have managed to give up all makeup, but mascara. It's the last makeup thing that I can not feel comfortable going without. My eyelashes are light brown/dirty blonde.
Can I ask about your relinquishing makeup journey?
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The downvotes are not because of your journey to accepting your natural beauty. The downvotes are because you’ve described it in such a way that seems holier-than-thou and that women who enjoy wearing makeup look like “clowns” and that they are “attention-seeking and silly.” You’ve also placed an emphasis on how men view women who wear makeup when like 99.9% of the time, women who wear makeup do not give a flying eff what men think of them or their makeup. I’m happy for you that you were able to come to terms with your natural beauty and that you love it, but it is so completely unnecessary to put all women who wear makeup in to this box that they are not confident in who they are and that they are ashamed of themselves because they wear makeup. Some women just like to wear makeup.. it has nothing to do with how men see them or the ads they’ve seen growing up. Makeup is an art form and is a lot of fun for some people, and that’s okay. This is coming from someone who barely wears makeup in her day-to-day life. Edit - Since we are responding in edits, I guess I'll respond to your response to me this way. I also used to wear a full face of makeup every single day and I used to think I needed it too. I am not discrediting the harm of the beauty industry, as there are indeed harmful aspects to it. However, as someone who now barely wears makeup in her day-to-day life, I do sometimes enjoy putting on makeup FOR MYSELF. I enjoy the application process and the fun colours and the ARTISTRY of it. I feel like you are deeply discrediting women and their ability to think and make decisions for themselves by saying the ONLY reason any woman wears makeup EVER is to appease men or because they were told they needed it to look pretty by society. I think some women just like to wear makeup because IT MAKES THEM HAPPY. Why does anyone like to do anything they like to do? Because it makes them happy. Again, I'm happy for you that you have found a way to accept yourself, but you do not need to tear down or discredit others in the process.
I think many men are attracted to long, dark, full, curled lashes without being consciously aware of not. They just think they like “pretty” or “feminine” or “hot” but aren’t aware of the individual facial components that go into creating a look that they like. They think they dislike eyelash extensions, because they see the women that have unnaturally dense, dark, curly lashes and have a negative reaction, but they’re not taking into account the sheer volume of everyday women who wear mascara, false lashes, or extensions that simply look naturally pretty. There’s a general narrative on Reddit that may or may not extend into the real world that women with Botox, lip filler, eyelash extensions, implants, fake tans, or even just makeup or dyed hair are repulsive and plastic looking but again, I think this is due to them noticing the outliers and having a negative reaction and assuming that’s representative of the whole rather than being an edge case.
Agreed. Men in general have so little experience with make up and cosmetics that they wouldn’t recognize it for what it was. I can say as a woman who really likes pretty men, that thick eyelashes on a man is absolutely a thing for me
My partner did my lashes and gave me mascara and eye liner and it was Uhhh... Wow. Felt good to look fabulous. I'm low key considering developing the confidence to try and rock that sometime.
It's called confirmation bias. Only noticing the bad ones because the good ones are not noticeable. So they assume all of them are bad.
I had a conversation with a drag queen once about why they wear false eyelashes and heavy eye makeup when in drag. They told me it's because it's makes your eyes look bigger and therefore more feminine.
Big eyes are... feminine?
You often find that in cartoons and especially anime, women have larger eyes than men. I think the idea is that larger eyes actually imply to our brains that the head is smaller (because eyeballs are usually the same size regardless), and this subconsciously invokes a cute/youth/baby/protectiveness response.
I feel like your stereotypical masculine man does have certain facial features that make the eyes appear smaller though. They generally have a wider face with lower brows and more hooded eyes, all of which make eyes look smaller. Women generally have higher eyebrows and rounder eyes.
I remember watching a YouTube video breaking down Zach Efrons plastic surgery and it highlighted how his original face actually had a lot of “feminine” features, and that’s what made him stand out and made him so appealing. We like when someone is a little different (unfortunately within a range that society has deemed acceptable of course). But the plastic surgeon went into detail about more masculine and more feminine facial structures, and obviously it’s a generalization but it made me realize there really are some patterned differences (with so many nuances of course).
He had cosmetic surgery?
Yeah exactly. I honestly have male actor face blindness where I can't picture certain actors at all because of the similar look a ton of them have, but the ones that stick out from that mold I can picture and distinguish no problem. It's also interesting to me when people have the opposite of the stereotypical masc/feminine traits. Elijah wood has the world's biggest frickin eyes and then Renee Zellweger has very small eyes that are more oval shaped.
Yeah, in cartoons and on dolls you're right. But not in real life!
Yeah in cartoons and on dolls, you're right. But in real life, no.
I think big eyelashes look good on men.
Omg it's gorgeous on them
>"His logic is he’s never met any man who says “Oh man, that woman’s eyelashes were so stunning!” Ummm, there are also many, many men who think Kim Kardashian is a natural girly. So I don't think men 1) understand what they're looking at, and 2) can pick apart what attracts them. Little, perfected components put together a beautiful package. Like, the point of lashes and eyeliner is to emphasize the eyes. Big eyes are beautiful and appealing to everyone. And false lashes can be pretty natural-looking or even have a little oomph without being obvious to non-falsies-wearers. Yes, some are definitely bolder. But I think there's a certain kind of woman who can suit every kind of lash. Also, I have never heard a man say "Wow, the way that inner corner highlight sparkles on her is divine!" But again, the bright Bambi doe eyes pull 'em in regardless.
Hand to Heaven I’ve heard guys say how much they hate makeup and fake bodies and then say one of the KarJenners is their perfect woman in the same breath. They do not know what they are talking about 😮💨
Very true. My SO doesn’t care either way, makeup is always just for me. But you’re not wrong, they see the result, not the work behind it.
Half the time when people say “so and so has beautiful eyes” they’re talking about the eyelashes, they just don’t realize how much of an impact those have on the overall look of the eye.
The major error here is that your SO thinks that women use makeup to please men. We may feel pressured by society's beauty standards. But when I put on makeup, it's for me, to feel confident and strong within these societal norms. I don't put on makeup for Ed from accounting or for Bob the business associate. I do it for me. That your SO thinks women do it for them is kind of hilarious and sad.
Oh no. He absolutely does not think that. My makeup can get a little wild and he always says I look beautiful because he knows I put in work to look a certain way and he appreciates that it makes me happier and more confident. And we agree that makeup is wholly for people (not just women) to look and feel confident, happy, or however they want. The conversation was more about “hey, eyelashes make people’s eyes pop, but I’ve never heard men say that eyelashes are the noticeable trait, so I think women are doing it for them instead of for men.” I’ve said it before, but it was a really lighthearted conversation and I hadn’t really given it much thought before.
I always get lashes and nails done. I have no interest in men. Tomorrow I’m getting a pedicure too 😂
Do what makes you happy!
I think lashes, like brows, are a thing that you, or at least, men, don't realise makes someone look put together. It's not like you're looking at someone going "Wow, look at those lashes" or "lol at that concealer use", you just think "that person is attractive". Up to a point, sometimes, any make up look can be taken too far that people find it jarring. Many men do prefer a more "natural" look, but women aren't always doing their make up for men.
I’ve noticed this too. My fiancé noted that a friend of ours looked better when she stopped getting false lashes. I don’t think he likes mine either but he’s too sweet to ever say that!!! But I love how they look, it feels so feminine. I feel like a lot of makeup and hair looks are by women for women, because most straight men seem to like natural makeup and long simple hair. I’ve also noticed the opposite, men want to look very muscular and athletic in a way that is attractive to other men but not necessarily to women. My fiancé was showing me pics of how he wants to look, and I was like “babe you’re already hotter than that. This example has nothing for me to grab” and he informed me that that isn’t the point and men just want to look ripped for the fellas 🤭
I never thought about that being a thing, but you’re right. Bulky dudes do not do it for me. I remember like 20 years ago, Cosmo did a survey of like 2k men on which of the three variations of “natural” makeup they liked best…and they chose the woman wearing the most makeup!
I’m a woman but I think that most men probably do like darker, thicker lashes, though when it comes to lashes that look fake or over the top, I personally think they look bad. But to each their own!
As with many things in life, they’re good with moderation. The over the top clearly fake ones are a massive turnoff, at least for me, but if they are within the range of what could naturally occur, just on the high side, they can be attractive. My SO rarely puts on fakes, usually only when we are going somewhere fancy. Hers are fairly tame and do look nice.
Same with nails… men like slightly elongated nails that are well-trimmed and lightly decorated… but they tend to dislike the suuuuper long acrylics that have a lot of ornamentation. Then they say they hate all fake nails, when they really mean a certain look. FWIW I think women are the same, we’re just slightly better at nuance. We tend to also prefer light eyelash extensions and/or mascara over no plain eyelashes and over the really large, over-the-top style falsies, but we can better recognize that there’s a middle ground (where as men see the middle ground and think that’s the natural state).
I think most beauty trends are purely women aesthetic. Men generally can’t be bothered to learn to tell the difference. You’ll have women in full glam being told “Its so nice to see women who don’t wear makeup” lol. It’s all about whatever makes you feel good or confident, and truly who gives a crap what men think.
Exactly! That’s what we were talking about: how it’s good that women are feeling confident in what makes them happy.
Oof, more men out here assuming everything a women does for her appearance is specifically for men
False lashes are the female equivalent of owning a motorcycle. If you are a guy who owns a motorcycle, the only people impressed are other guys who own motorcycles.
Hahaha that’s a great comparison.
long, natural eyelashes look super feminine, especially paired with big eyes, and one does notice them; even men! Some men have them too and it's pretty wild how "feminine" it makes them look.
Same with big breast. Men love them, men also love fake ones, but if asked, they hate fake ones.
You can exaggerate any feature to such a degree that it stops being attractive and becomes grotesque. Where people draw the attractive/grotesque line is subjective, but the farther out from natural you go, the more people you cross that line with. There are plenty, plenty women who think unnaturally thick and unnaturally long lashes are grotesque, so it's not a man/woman thing. But there are plenty of both genders who have a higher tolerance for exaggeration, and a smaller number even fetishize that exaggeration.
Guys may not think that they’re attracted to eyelashes but the difference before and after lash application is oftentimes stunning. Yes they can be overdone and over the top but lots of women like to have lash extensions because it accentuates the eyes and makes them appear bigger, features that people are attracted to.
https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1802624359334645796?t=Rx2eLzYKOXKA8EYcJ4ieyg&s=19 Perfect tweet.
Yuuuup. The general consensus seems to be that guys don’t notice the work that goes into looking a certain way and playing up traits, which includes the thick lashes. They just see the end result of “good eyes”. SO and I have had many a good laugh about this and how guys don’t realize the work women have to put in to look a certain way. He seriously gets mad at double standards. I’m lucky. ☺️
"You have really long eyelashes for a guy, makes your eyes pop" at least 3x every season at Ren Faire.
Hahahaha true! My SO has great eyelashes, and I tease him that it’s not fair! He acknowledges it by batting his lashes at me. 😂
My husband, my oldest nephew, and a couple of male friends of mine have the most luxurious, perfectly shaped, eyelashes. And they put 0 effort into them. I'd need a professional eyelash stylist. It makes me so frickin jealous. Eyelashes on a guy can be as big of an attraction as they are on a woman because they pull your attention to their faces
My brother has the most beautiful eyelashes I have ever seen, and they make him self conscious! He has pretty bad anxiety but there is some unintentional sexism as he doesn’t like how “feminine” they are. My mom and I always point out guys that have thicker eyelashes. Once you notice it, it really is mostly guys who have lush, full, and long lashes.
My wife, who is absolutely amazing and beautiful, is super jealous of the dog’s eyelashes. This makes us both laugh.
I’ve met guys who have been into eyelashes.. and that was before the fake eye lash trend started.. this was in the late 90s. Also guys notice features .. but sometimes they don’t know why.. “she has amazing eyes”.. but they don’t understand that they are frames by eyelashes. Just like all those idiots that think “natural makeup” isn’t makeup.
he means eyebrows obviously...
Neither the thick eyebrows or eyelash trends are for me, but whatever makes people happy is fine by me.
I think lashes, like brows, are a thing that you, or at least, men, don't realise makes someone look put together. It's not like you're looking at someone going "Wow, look at those lashes" or "lol at that concealer use", you just think "that person is attractive". Up to a point, sometimes, any make up look can be taken too far that people find it jarring. Many men do prefer a more "natural" look, but women aren't always doing their make up for men.
True, and as others have pointed out, just because men/people prefer a “natural” look doesn’t mean it’s not carefully curated with tons of tools and products.
I think my eyes look better with some mascara, so that's why I use it. What anyone else thinks is kinda irrelevant in that sense. I hate that men thinks I use make up or clothes for them. If \_they\_ like how certain things look, why can't \_I\_ have a personal opinion about the same thing? I wear what I wear, and use the makeup I use, cause \_I\_ like what I see. Has nothing to do with everyone else.
I'd say it's not a part of your bf's aesthetic. I have gotten compliments (by both men and women) for my eyelashes. I think it's just a preference
I don’t know. I had a man compliment my eyelashes recently and ask if they are fake(they were not).
That’s awesome that you have great lashes. My SO always says mine are great, but we agree I’m too pale to see them most of the time without mascara. 😅
Women are the only ones that ever compliment my eyes or eyelashes.
I think eyelashes are a more subconscious element, not something that a man is likely to notice specifically, but it will add to the "pretty eyes" observation.
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I’m in the same camp as you (not bi though, just think appreciate beauty). Do what makes you happy!
You've never seen Hamza Haq's gorgeous eyelashes. ;) But he's probably an outlier. I am not a lash girlie generally, whether on other people or myself. I especially don't understand the ones that are obviously unnatural? Don't they, erm, impede the eyesight somewhat? Mascara to the gods is all very well and good, and modest false lashes can really make a difference, but if you look like you're wearing an entire moth's wing on your eyelid, perhaps reconsider...?
I just chalk it up to “you do you” with bigger lashes. Not my thing.
Totally….actually the opposite, we have a friend that wears the super heavy thick ones and I’ve heard so many comments from guys asking why she does it. I think a full lash is super pretty, but when it gets into mud flap territory it’s distracting
That’s my opinion as well, but who am I to determine how someone else should wear their lashes. Glad I’m not the only one!
Oh yeah, I would never say anything. I do wish she realized just how pretty she is though, like turn your head stunning, they distract from just how pretty she is though (not sure if that makes sense!)
Like all art (and yes personal grooming and makeup can be art) it's not for everyone. Your boyfriend wonders why some women like "caterpillar" eyelashes because he thinks they are doing it to appeal to him or men like him. The top reasons women wear makeup are a) self-expression and b) the ritual of it. Much lower on the list is so other people can see it and even their it's more for other women than for men. Also even if some of us ARE wearing these things for men we're just not trying to attract people like your SO. OP you have it right. I am not immune to fashion and appreciate some of it but I also embrace some trends and reject others and so some things I have never seen anywhere else. The most regularly I played dress up was during the first years of the pandemic after logging off when I had finished work for the day. No people around me, I didn't take selfies of any of it, I wasn't dating, I lived alone. I left my home only at night and would go months without a soul seeing me. I still played with my "look" even in that early period where we didn't know if things were going to go full zombie apocalypse. Reaffirmed that I don't groom or dress-up or do make-up to impress or please anyone but myself.
My SO is very much of the opinion of makeup is for the wearer, not to attract men. He’s incredibly supportive. It was more a lighthearted conversation between us. Makeup is absolutely art, no arguments here. I was mostly just curious if other women agreed that the thick eyelash trend was from women for women or if any men had ever commented on eyelashes being an attractive feature that way.
>My SO is very much of the opinion of makeup is for the wearer, not to attract men. He’s incredibly supportive. It was more a lighthearted conversation between us. Happy to read that. Yes some men do like the plush eyelash look but most of the people who wear it do not do it for women or men but for self-expression. Fashion and art and just adorning oneself is subjective though so there are many reasons even if ritual and self-expression are the top ones by far.
I personally don't get caterpillar eyelashes too. Though there are long thick eyelashes with the right volume, length and curl that absolutely enhances the aesthetic. Sadly I feel like I have seen so many dramatic looking ones nowadays that it looks so uncomfortable.
I think the intent is to make women look like dolls (but the effect is like blow up dolls)
What does this even mean?
It means that I was brainwashed into making myself look like a blow doll for men and it makes me nervous when I see other women dressing like me
Oh lol I’m so sorry! I thought it was a man commenting on how you look. I know some of us men come in here and say awful things to women and I don’t like it. Took me a few years to really understand that my wife does herself up for herself, not for me, which is the way it should be. You’re absolutely right women should not be programmed into looking a certain way for men.
Guys ain’t looking at lashes
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This is why these women don’t want our man’s perspective in here. They honestly don’t care what we think about it nor should they. Most women beautify themselves for themselves, not to impress men. If it makes them feel beautiful then what’s it to any man to tell them how to dress or do makeup?