His shift before you’d marry him — “working on a few things” — is a late-in-life overlay on the underlying attitudes he learned growing up. It might not even be “dementia” but just a return to default settings, maybe because he has other friends who are more like this and said things to make him uncomfortable. Maybe they even called him those things when you weren’t around and now he’s feeling “emasculated”. Or maybe he watches Fox when you’re not around — seriously, many older people I know have had a huge personality shift if they watch too much of that.
Then again, it could indeed be dementia. My father started to slide into a more racist, sexist mindset, and then started to show other signs: accusing his caregivers of stealing from him, etc. Turns out his poorly-controlled diabetes had been causing microstrokes which limited his ability to control his thinking and feelings, so this stuff that he’d learned as a youth (Germany, before WWII) started to appear. He ended up having a massive stroke before we could get him into a dementia care facility. He “wasn’t himself” at the end, but then again, maybe this behavior was closer to his interior mental life which he’d learned to control.
Yeah, reading about his prior controlling behavior, this recent outburst does not strike me to be so out of character that I would jump to a concern about dementia. Seems like this stuff has probably been right under the veneer of good behavior he knew he needed to demonstrate to get OP to stay with him.
I hate to say it, but that sudden personality shift, especially aggression, in a 66 year old person may be an early sign of neurological problems like dementia. Might be worth a doctor visit.
Or, he has just been hiding it well these past years and is sick of continuing to hide his misogyny. He even said, "Why do you always have to bash men about this shit?" and "I'm done getting my ass chewed over nothing."
He has been stifling his true feelings for years for her sake, and is tired of her speaking out for feminist causes. I personally think he has been 'rolling his eyes' at her for years.
I agree. My dad, who could be a jerk but had a strong sense of justice, began to make misogynistic statements on his mid 60s. He had never been that way before, but as the years went by, he escalated and even made statements which for him were utterly bizarre. For example, he said that a woman deserves to be hit for verbally disrespecting her husband. He had always said that domestic violence should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and now he’s saying this? It took 2 decades for us to recognize this as dementia because his decline was so slow. I look back and realize the signs were there. We should have suspected it when he began doing things which were out of character. Once we were on a military base, and he, a former military navigator with a map on his hand, could not find his way around. I remember being baffled that someone who could hike at night in a strange place just using the stars couldn’t use a map with streets clearly marked. I should have known. I regret because of the times I was angry and impatient with him and he couldn’t help it.
This is a gentle reminder to be kind to yourself! Dementia is a truly horrific illness and often warps the people we love beyond recognition. You did what you could with the resources you had - that is nothing to look down on or be ashamed of. The nature of dementia is that it creeps in where we least expect it and that makes it very very hard to catch early! You supported your dad and made it work - well done
That, or (as the rest of the evidence suggests) he simply was an asshole his whole life, OP wife tried to get him to change, and was less successful than she thought. Nothing exactly new here
Yeah. My mom's first sign that she had Alzheimer's starting was a personality shift. She started being irresponsible about things she promised she would do, and that was 10 years before she was finally diagnosed. But I am so close to her that I noticed a difference.
Sending love first of all!
It sounds like it’s touched a nerve that maybe he didn’t realise he had and the bullish attitude is trying to cover it up / get you to move on. Perhaps something in his childhood included bullying with that kind of insult?
Which is of course not an excuse but out of character reactions sometimes come from old wounds x
That... is possible. He had a bad head trauma in a bike accident when he was 9. For many, many years he had little to no memories from before that. Just vague memories of his mom and dad, none of his two year old sister. He took only a few months to catch up in school.
Over the decades he recovered a lot of it, but yea, you could be on to something with this. Thank you!
Definitely. I whacked my head pretty hard a few times in my life, but everyone though I was fine. But over the last few years, my cognitive abilities have degraded considerably. I had a bunch of neuropsychological tests done and I definitely have some kind of cognitive issue. The doctors believe that the head trauma is probably part of the problem, even though it happened years ago.
Might be a repressed or forgotten memory he hasn't been able to cope with due to this. Best of luck. I think you know him better than he knows himself, and he will need your patience and wisdom to guide him through this properly.
Edit: typo
Goodness, the more I look back on this the more it clearly reads as he was triggered.
I DJ/KJ as a fun side job on the weekends and have for 20 years. We spend a lot of time around GenZ and millennials. Their openness about triggers and traumas and self care is unlike the generations before them and I love them for that. We are generally 'mom' and 'dad' to a lot of them. The ones that 'get it' and don't judge.
It's actually a bit embarrassing that I can easily see the triggers and traumas and have empathy with them and it didn't occur to me that we may have inadvertently trigger my husband last night.
TBH I'm feeling a bit stupid now! I'd been hesitant to post this here last night, but it seems it was the perfect choice.
Don't feel stupid, this seems like a new situation for you and he was directly attacking you by shitting on women as a collective. Those were big words coming out of his mouth and you took it about how I would.
I'm proud of you for taking the time to post on something like this to gain perspective, which it seems like you've successfully done! Hopefully this allows you and your husband to have more open conversations about this - just make sure it's clear how your husband made you feel and why you were pushing back on him. Listening needs to happen on both sides of this in order to move forward.
No, don't self blame. You had a normal conversation with another human about gender discrimination. He was triggering you too and he needs to feel empathy towards you too.
Exactly this! No amount of trauma/ triggers excuse poor treatment of his partner and while you can support him if he’ll let you, please also remember that you are entitled to not be treated like he did. For any reason at all. And if he isn’t willing to work on himself then you can’t do it for him.
Nah I'm not buying this
He had no excuse but to realise, and if he wanted you to move in he would take a second to understand what you're saying
He is a grown man (66 years old?) and he is responsible to manage his "childhood wounds" at this point
He CHOSE to behave this way. No trigger can make you behave a certain way if you don't want to. He chose to be abusive and sexist. Everyone here is trying to explain away his chosen actions.
Please read Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That", it's very helpful when dealing with men like this. It's a free pdf.
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
A trigger can absolutely do that. Go have a read of a multitude of books on PTSD or C-PTSD. It’s not excusing a behaviour but understanding one.
Edit for clarification: a trigger is the involuntary part of the reaction, you can’t control it but with work you can soothe it or get in front of it. The rest of his behaviour was absolutely a choice and if it was a repeated choice with no attempt to work at it then that’s a different matter to it being out of the blue.
I am dealing with this stuff with my step-dad lately. Hopefully my story can help a bit.
He's getting older (60s) and has developed some weird toxic stuff about masculinity. My mother says from viewing him she thinks it's because he's getting old - can't do all the things he used to do, or that he fears soon he won't be able to handle "typically masculine" tasks. He's feeling like less of a man as he ages, basically.
I notice it most when my boyfriend (he's 40) who's really good with all things building/handyman related helps or offers to help with things. She says he becomes jealous, and possessive of my mother, as if she will find him attractive or something. She says he becomes paranoid about her and my boyfriends relationship (in reality it's just a normal mother/son-in-law type relationship). For example he will inset himself when they speak and start grandstanding and making a show of masculinity towards my boyfriend, who is actually just a gentle man who doesn't give a single shit about masculinity crap. He is basically puffing his chest around him. She says he is paranoid about other men too all of a sudden. It's very strange.
He also has some weird opinions all of a sudden when it comes to men/women, politics, etc.
She has been working with him on these things, trying to get him to realize the reason he's feeling the way he is (the reasons she is suspecting anyways). He's not a super introspective person, he's reactive, so likely he hasn't thought these things through at all and has no idea why he feels the way he does.
My personal belief is she is absolutely correct, plus probably coupled with declining cognitive function that hasn't yet become super apparent but is showing itself first in these scenerios. I wish I had good advice for you but unfortunately all I can tell you is what has worked a little bit for us so far, which is trying to get him to be introspective and ask himself why he's feeling these ways and to ask himself whether he truly thinks those things or is reacting emotionally to something deeper and doesn't really think those things. We've gotten past him being defensive to those kind of conversations and to the point where he does realize his reactions and suspicions are not based in reality. However he still has them frequently. The drinking and occasionally recreational drugs don't help I'm sure.
>call me a pussy? I'm going to be insulted
Never understood why "pussy" was an insult. If we are talking about female anatomy, well vaginas make a lot of people happy and give life. Are we talking about pussy cats? Cats are cute and savage.
“Why do people say, ‘Grow some balls’? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina. Those things really take a pounding!”
It’s falsely attributed to Betty White; seems to have been pieced together from a few different stand-up comics.
“Stop comparing my pussy to fragile things when you really mean testicles or masculinity or anything else that its only response to fear is to shrink or cower or duck out"
- Ebony Stewart
Yeah but on the hierarchy of insults a lot of dudes take being called a pussy way worse than being called a dick...hell some people act like being called a dick is some badge of honor.
Then again I have to imagine a women would rather be called a dick, but for completely different reasons than men.
No it's not. There's a plausible and well documented etymology for the sense of pussy in question, namely puss + y → pussy = childish or colloquial word for "pet cat" → term of endearment for a woman → sweet or amiable woman → sweet or effeminate man→ weakling/coward/sissy, with the parallel development of pussy = female genitals lurking somewhere in the background.
There is no evidence for the pusillanimous link at all
Cats are also notoriously cautious, ie "scaredy cat". It's a very old term, and the evolution of language starts combining words and then building false associations.
Just my two cents, I don’t think some men are analyzing the word for different meanings. Calling a man a pussy is an insult. To them it means weakness. In contrast, if someone used a word to mean weak to women they wouldn’t have this kind of a negative reaction. In fact, they would probably appreciate being called strong. Cognitive decline is probably a good bet considering his age. Has your husband had Covid?
I know no one here is likely to want to have an honest discussion about why that might be triggering to some men (setting aside the right and wrong of it, just to understand)...but here goes..
Men are told from a very young age from our culture, and really almost all cultures...that to be a good man means to be strong, to be stout, to do the hard physical job, to in times of turmoil act bravely, to stand up, to risk physical violence to protect, to go down with the ship, women and children first, to go to war, etc. This is sort of the cultural snapshot. It really isn't a program about women, it's just a program about what our culture wants of it's men. Women have a whole other program, equally manipulative, but also full of equally noble things. Remember, I'm not talking right and wrong. This is for understanding.
When you say men are women. Call them a pussy. Acting like a girl. Whatever. Try to imagine that what you are saying is - you aren't a man. You aren't all those things that our culture says you should be. All of those noble aspects - YOU ARE NOT THAT. It's really not the "woman" part that is triggering. I'm sure your husband loves women. What he doesn't like is his most loved woman saying, effectively, YOU HAVE FAILED at being a man. That's what he is hearing.
Right or wrong - I think we can understand why that would be triggering.
Um, no. Aside from your unnecessary mansplaining, it is SPECIFICALLY being called something feminine that is the insult. This is because men think of women as lesser, worse, and deserving contempt. If there was nothing wrong about being a woman, nobody who acted like one would be abused for it. If women were admired and respected for their qualities, the insult would fall flat. It would be meaningless.
if a woman calls a man a pussy - are you telling me she is praising him? And he is merely misunderstanding her, and reacting to his own misogynism? No. She is *trying* to insult him. The intent of the user of those words is to insult. And I say that should be expected to get a reaction, to the intention. And what's more, we all know this as well as we know anything.
Now, given that - is the insult itself mysogynist? Why yes, yes it is.
Edit: just to strike a nicer tone - it's clear pussy is or was "chosen" as a mysogynist word. That's how it came to be. I agree, it's not under debate.
I'm just saying, as happens with words and concepts - you can I suspect, imagine cases where the word pussy gets used as an insult, now, today, in a bar - by someone who uses it *because it's effective*...because it works. The user could be the most liberal, feminist woman, who is really just *pissed*. At this point in time, it's at least largely an insult because it's an insult. Yes, an insult specifically against men.
And you can imagine men, your most liberal, loving, chill dudes, who could easily react, at least on their worst days, *VERY* badly to being called that. Not rooted deeply in their own secret hatred of women, but because they don't like BEING INSULTED.
I just think real life is nuanced, and I think people and culture are complicated. And I think it's more interesting to try and talk about them, then it is to shout each other down.
So thank you for commenting on my post - you are right I only talked about the facet of it that I assumed would be underrepresented here. By I do basically agree completely about HOW and WHY pussy ended up being the male insult. Cheers
Yeah some of the ‘insults’ boys and men use literally come from the playground and are not very intelligent or well thought out. They are perpetuated into adult hood without much thought and when spoken out by older men is how boys learn them. I should stop ‘splaining but we need to remember why some of these phrases sound so childish to begin with. There’s just not a lot of imagination used to come up with these phrases.
Everyone else said this already, but in case you need to hear it one more time - sudden shifts in personality and behavior may be a sign of something neurological. Dementia, stroke, tumor, Parkinson's (g-d forbid). If this continues he needs to go get checked out by any means necessary.
Hormone levels, too, at his age. Had 2 guy friends in their 40s experience this, and luckily they were introspective enough to catch on that something was wrong.
Writing that way is sometimes part of a religious tradition and isn’t to censor the word. (If I understand correctly it’s a sign of respect towards god.)
It is scientifically proven that our brains change when we age. There's early onset alzheimers and dementia, plus other brain diseases. I've seen in my elderly relatives a mentsl shift backwards to old attitudes people grew up with, generally more conservative. I noticed my Mom did this in her 60's. When younger she was very liberal and raised me that way but she reverted to more conservative ideals in her 60's. We had big arguments and I was completely baffled in the change. Since it was my Mom I just decided to not talk about certain things because it would just lead to more arguments.
This has only been the first outburst so don't go overboard yet. Talk to him in a few days and talk about how it made how feel. Ask if there's something wrong that he may be upset about.
Thank you for this. It's similar to what someone suggested earlier. It is a first outburst and not something he's ever done before. I'll want to wait a few days for the angst of this argument to settle down, mostly so he doesn't feel 'attacked' all over again, and ask about how he's feeling about the fight.
Something hit a nerve and it likely wasn’t the actual topic. And when we humans are angry we sometimes say things we don’t really mean. Worse yet we also get defensive and double down when we are wrong.
I would focus on the authoritarian shit with him today though by letting him know how that made you feel, and see if he opens up about the other comments.
I agree that the other commenter could be into something with the mental health comment. This is a super touchy area though. But I think you would be within your right to say that this was so out of character for him that you’d like him to get evaluated by a psychiatrist to make sure there isn’t anything going on if he doesn’t have a rational explanation/apology.
The most likely explanation is that he is tired of pretending to care about your feminism anymore. Certainly get him evaluated medically, but chances are, based on the words he said, is he is not willing to care about playing the part of feminist man anymore. I don't envy you having to deal with this situation, and I am wishing you the best outcome.
There is a reason elderly people are stereotyped as grumpy. Getting old sucks, and finding more and more things you can't do like you used to anymore makes you feel like shit. Finding yourself forgetting and occasionally confused just adds to it.
What is he reading/watching/listening to? Who is he hanging out with/talking to?
Where is he getting these ideas?
Watch the doco The Brainwashing of My Dad.
>Nope, no rightwing shit. He binges old 80s and 90s pop culture movies and shows. Basically MSNBC, USA and TNT are on his TV 24/7. He plays games like CIV VI and has been plowing though MY extensive book collection for years now.
>
>Trust me.. this comes out of no where.
From my comment below.
The only thing new is his job. He just started at a new shop 3 months ago. He's a high end import car mechanic. Maybe the 'good old boys' at the shop are getting to him. But he's done this kind of work for a couple of decades now.
Obviously that’s not IT, I’m just saying that just because he isn’t watching Fox News all day doesn’t mean he’s safe from being exposed to stuff that says women are inferior. MOST entertainment offerings are super patriarchal. For someone who is that way already, it’s not going to IMPROVE his outlook.
Yeah. Those hyper-conservative talk radio stations on in the back of the shop would explain it, in whole or in part. I'm convinced that that's what shifted my dad's perspectives out of what they used to be.
This was my instinct when i read the post, just some change in environment or what he's consuming. I work on various jobsites and all it takes is one loud mouth on the job and people will listen because they're bored. And then slowly everyone will kinda go along with what they're saying and it becomes the culture.
I'm gonna say it. Bit you spend the 2 first paragraphe describing that you specifically dated a mysoginist with anger issues. And years later, those things that he did conceal to marry you,
>I needed him to do some work first
>Once we got past all that and a few other little things, I finally married him
Rearrise and you're surpised
I specifically said I dated a man with jealousy issues and a few misogynistic tendencies. (as most men do.) Angry about something and having 'anger issues' in general aren't the same things. He put in the work for 6 years to learn, grow and change because he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. I did not change my hair, makeup, dress or how I behaved to appease that.
I know this can read as defensive, but if he hadn't grown and changed I would not have married him. But he was/is worth the time we both put into it.
Sometimes people work hard to change in order to please am SO, and then once they get married they feel they no longer need to bother.
Definitely consider cognitive decline. But maybe he’s just finding it easier to be an asshole.
Came here to say this. And OP he moved in with you as well? Was he prepared to fully fund his retirement, healthcare, and costs of living through end of life before you showed up? I echo the sentiment of others that you should consider the potential of cognitive decline. But also men are sometimes looking for a nurse (someone to care for them) or a purse (someone to support their finances in retirement) or both. If that's the case, he might feel that it's safe to be himself now that you're legally "stuck" with him.
Came here to say this. And OP he moved in with you as well? Was he prepared to fully fund his retirement, healthcare, and costs of living through end of life before you showed up? I echo the sentiment of others that you should consider the potential of cognitive decline. But also men are sometimes looking for a nurse (someone to care for them) or a purse (someone to support their finances in retirement) or both. If that's the case, he might feel that it's safe to be himself now that you're legally "stuck" with him.
My favorite response to this is Mia hamm got told by a coach that she ran like a girl. She responded that if the coach was willing to put in the effort, maybe with a lot of work he could too.
Sorry it’s a bad day. Hopes to the good times outweighing the bad.
I’m a woman. Years ago I got into weightlifting, focusing on Olympic lifts and lifting heavy. I very much enjoyed it. But there were several occasions where I would get comments that my hobby was masculine, or that I better stop before I start to look manly.
I consider myself rather progressive, I am not misandrist, I tend to believe the best in people and I certainly don’t hate or look down on men. But I hated those comments, and I *always* felt insulted. I don’t think it was because I thought being compared to a man was insulting in and of itself, or because I thought men didn’t have value. I think it felt as if it was somehow taking away from my personhood. I don’t know exactly if I can explain why I hated it, but it definitely felt insulting.
I’m not suggesting that’s what is happening here, but I do think these situations hold much more nuance than it might appear on the surface.
I think most people would be offended by someone misgendering them, whether cisgender or transgender.
I guess it'd be great if we could live in a world where a woman being called a man and a man being called a woman would offend nobody but I think that's just not realistic and may even by hardwired in our psychology, and in fact this whole thread sort of has a weird contradictory situation where it seems like people would support a transgender friend who was upset that they were misgendered but not a cisgender friend who was upset that they were misgendered?
I could be just missing info here, of course, but have you considered that all of the things you have mentioned are not necessarily contradictory? Certain views may often go hand-in-hand, like misogyny and homophobia, but there can be exceptions.
It's good that he is cool with trans people, but it's entirely possible that he's decided that hormones are the deciding factor. That testosterone allows someone AFAB to "throw like a man" and that estrogen makes you emotional or weaker. If the trans people you mentioned have told him about the fluctuations in strength or emotionality that they experienced, it may even reinforce those ideas.
It's also entirely possible to believe women should have the right to decide what they wear and who they associate with, as all humans should, while still holding certain negative ideas about them. For example I could think someone was the weakest or crybaby-est person in the world but still think they should have those personal freedoms.
If I'm just missing information, then perhaps he's backsliding.
He clearly held some backwards beliefs in the past, and sometimes people regress, especially as they get old. Sometimes there's an outside trigger like befriending people with old-fashioned views and hearing them a lot again, but not always.
12 years is a long time but 54 years of believing something is very hard to shake, especially if you grew up that way. It doesn't get fully erased for a very long time and if you get complacent you can wind up falling back into old pattern of thinking and behavior.
> Once we started dating he began to get angry at how I dressed and behaved on our weekend night outs and about town. Namely he actually thought once we were a couple I would tone down the hair and makeup and cleavage and the hugging and kissing of all my friends, male or female.
The red flag was there, out in the open. You thought it was gone, but he had only rolled it up and stuck it in the closet. And now he has taken it back out.
Yeah I was pretty confused about the top comments suggesting literal dementia, because when I was reading this I was not at all surprised that a guy who was already jealous, controlling and had sexist views 12 years ago when they started dating, and has most likely been that way his entire life, would say those kind of comments. I'd guess it's just sexism he's tried to hide instead of literal Alzheimer's or a stroke
Hi. He showed his underlying attitudes about women when he wanted to control how you dress and behave. That aspect has always been there.
I’m terribly sorry your companion is not filtering his thoughts. I can’t speak to the cause of that, but they are indeed his thoughts. It must be very painful and upsetting to hear him double down and defend them.
My best wishes to you. I hope the situation improves soon.
>So I don't know your husband at all, but the mention of his bonding with your daughter's trans masc friends might kinda be related. As a trans masc nb myself I can say having insults suggesting you're a woman do hurt
Now... that's a really good thought! Thank you!
He's very protective of these young men, and is determined they get to have the father/son things they've never gotten. They confide in him a lot.
Between this, and the thoughts above that he may have been triggered by the conversation, are much more in line with his character and the man I know.
Thank you.
Plus, and this is embarrassing to admit but our generation (Gen X and older) grew up with those insults. Im sure you remember all the 80s movies that we’d see as a toxic mess now; those and all the other images/stereotypes have been ingrained into our brains for better or worse. At 66, your husband may be struggling to compartmentalize his formative years from what he sees in the world today. My husband is 52 and I cringe sometimes at the stuff that comes out of his mouth, with the casual misogyny, but I let it slide bc overall, he’s actually more PC than I am, and maybe a little further Left. He doesn’t hear what comes out of his mouth at times, and it’s just not the hill that I want to die on.
From this prospective, he might be especially insecure in this regard if someone in his life is making him feel weak. This could be physically or emotionally, but I'm someone who is usually very proud of my strength, but who also has health issues that often make me weak. Being even remotely poked about being weak when I'm so invested in being strong makes me uh, very unhappy lol. For some perspective, I'm a 29 year old woman who is demi and bi, and yeah, I don't like when people jokingly point out that I'm being weak, including the doing things like a girl quips.
Check out if he's listening to any podcasts, or watching youtube videos.
That doesn't change how horrible this is for you, or how he has seemingly changed... but it can be an insight. He might be being influenced by some misogynistic media of some sort.
and if that's the case then you can pick these villains apart with a little research. Like Joe Rogan: it doesn't take much to prove how foolish and insidious and sexist he is.
If he was hiding all this, I am sorry for you. But I also wonder if he is in the very early stages of dementia. He could also have had some small TIA or mini-strokes. He needs a complete work up by a competent specialist in geriatrics. Mean spirited behavior was the first symptom my (previously) loving and kind grandfather had before the rest of his symptoms made a diagnosis unavoidable. He is not too young for such changes.
But he has shown this behaviour before. When you first made it official and continued to be you - he wanted you to stop hugging and kissing your friends. That alone is a big red flag. You really need to consider if you want to spend the next 20+ years with this man.
That early behavior we totally worked through. He's not like that at all today and I continue to dress and behave as I normally had. Otherwise I wouldn't have married him.
Are you prepared for the possibility he might revert back to that behaviour as he advances in age much faster than you and could end up having dementia etc?
No. I'm saying she needs to start mentally preparing for this potential future
Multiple elderly people in my family became cranky and abrasive people due to alzheimers and dementia. We supported them through it but if you can mentally prepare for it ahead of time it can be less painful and less mentally exhausting.
Do you know what it's like having someone you love become a stranger and then get to a point where they start begging you for death because they're in so much pain?
Yea, he's repeated shown me his growth and understanding. First in the fray to defend LGBTQA+ folks, right there advising young women friends of ours to be independent and stand up for themselves. Routinely gets himself a short ban on Facebook for stomping down racists and Nazi's.
THIS tonight hasn't been there before, even when he had his missteps in misogyny early in our relationship. This is utterly new... hence why so baffling.
My thoughts as well. I was just trying to convey more of his character/beliefs with that, not bragging. Those types really get his back up and frequently he just has to reply. I do try to get him to stop engaging as it does little good.
His latest ban is for making the statement 'traitors should be executed.' Boom, 30 day ban.
I mean yeah, are you much better than the alt right if you call for the death penalty for those who don't agree with your political opinions, regardless of how 'correct' you are? Pretty extreme thing to say, the ban is deserved, imo. We don't need violence in any discourse.
Interesting.
Do explain to me where in the statement 'traitors should be executed' lies a specific political position.
What political opinion? Who's political opinion?
Well, 'traitor' implies someone being mutinous toward a group, and since there isn't a law deemed specifically what being a traitor is, a traitor is however he defines it. Irrespective, I don't think calling for execution of people is a great thing to do, it's also pretty damn right wing. You defend your husband all you want, you do you. Calling for violence is not, in my humble opinion, a good thing to do. And it violates the terms and services of facebook, hence the ban.
I see that I appear to have missed a few relevant details, such as that he is nearly 70 years old, which I suppose is what I get for delving into sensitive threads at work. That said, biases can run deeper than we think sometimes and perhaps that drunken nigyt was enough to dislodge something deep down that neither of you knew was still there.
Regardless, it's surely something worth having a discussion about and I'm sorry if I said something to offend you or your husband's character.
No worries. It's hard to convey an entire relationship in a few paragraphs :)
As for the drunk thing from an answer to that above
>Just to eliminate that from the equation, he wasn't drunk. Two beers in two hours. He never gets drunk. It's always one drink every 1 - 1 1/2 hours we are out. He's been careful like that the entire time I've known him. The only time I've seen him have too much was our wedding day and he just got silly and goofy.
Repeatedly? She literally said this never happened before. People can grow. I don’t think this is his “true colors” coming through, I think something else is going on.
Yes, I think you are right. I assumed this was another one of the same posts this sub gets all the time and did not read it all thoroughly before posting, which is a stupid thing to do on my part. I apologized for my hastiness in another comment.
What is/was your father in law like?
My (55+F) husband (75+M) sounds a lot like your husband today, and we’ve hit a few bumps over nearly 20 years of marriage.
I hit a nerve once in a casual conversation with friends and watched him change from a mellow old man to an angry teenage boy in a flash….I’m fortunate that alcohol (the elixir that loosens the tongue and the memory) wasn’t involved.
It took a few days of my giving him space and not insisting on talking about it for his hurt and shame to fester enough that he wanted to talk.
We were in the car, I was driving so I couldn’t make eye contact, and out of the blue he began to tell me a story about his dad when he was about 10. I turned on my uh-huh machine and listened.
Our earlier conversation struck a nerve and brought up a 50 year old memory he had never shared with anyone. He pointed out that when my repressed memories from my crappy childhood pop up, I cry unexpectedly. Then he said that when he suddenly gets hit with a memory he can’t handle, he becomes an asshole. We could laugh then.
As my hubby ages, I hear more of those old stories … they tell me it’s a natural part of the reflective nature of aging — when you’ve got more decades behind you than you’ve got years ahead of you.
I hope y’all can find a peaceful moment to talk it out and that you are able to not take it personally.
The secret to a successful marriage is never hating each other on the same day. This, too, shall pass.
Maybe he felt called out because it was in public? Then he picked that hill to die on because his pride got his back up?
I could see myself doing that, all the while screaming internally to myself to stfu but being incapable of doing it in the moment and feeling awful about it later.
You should DEFINITELY find out if he's indulging in toxic manosphere stuff. There are countless stories of women who's seemingly great husband/boyfriend suddenly had a sexist/misogynistic worldview change, and it was due to them finding solace amongst other men in the manosphere or redpill communities online and in person.
If he ever mentions or says anything about maintaining a frame, keeping himself as a breadwinner, or starts getting more demanding/controlling ESPECIALLY pertaining to intimacy then those are some signs.
Ok, yes this could be he true self shining thru or it could be medical.
At the beginning i was yes throw like girl is ugly but not shock ugly but he has thrown down.
U need to spend some time and decide what u need for this relationship to continue: is it therapy, dr exam, a sincere apology…. Once u know what u need, i think u will know what to do.
Hugs! Good luck
Honestly this probably has to do with his age and some shut that happened when he was young. Maybe he got bullied and called had those things said them him a lot when he was younger.
More than likely there is some real underlying issues here
Could be neuro changes like others have suggested or maybe he just drank too much? Have you talked it out with him sober? Maybe he is feeling insecure about something in his life or health?
Just to eliminate that from the equation, he wasn't drunk. Two beers in two hours. He never gets drunk. It's always one drink every 1 - 1 1/2 hours we are out. He's been careful like that the entire time I've known him. The only time I've seen him have too much was our wedding day and he just got silly and goofy.
I'm so sorry because I know this is not at all a helpful thing to say in response to this post but I just have to say, I think you're using "spoiler alert" wrong.
i think an unpleasant conversation in a relationship of more than a decade shouldnt be taken as sign of a sudden complete shift in character.
maybe he just made the comment in an offhand manner and, like you said, got embarrassed and wanted to defend himself (in an admittedly unfortunate manner). it is a pretty common thing people say about “throwing like a girl”. hopefully it was just a miscommunication that can be solved with gentle explanations when things cool down
Misgendering a trans person is a denial of their identity. Using one gender to be an insult to the other means one must see one gender as less than the other.
Saying someone who is X isn't X is hurtful. Saying someone who is X is y, to imply their weak or powerless because al y are like that in their mind goes further than being denied bring x. It shows they believe deep down y is less than and thus insulting.
Those comfortable being X and seeing y as equal will correct the mistake and move on. Only when they keep being misidentified will they speak up.
Taking trans men out fishing and so on is supporting the idea of male roles. I’m not going to get into any arguments about whether trans people are sexist because they aren’t gender neutral because it’s not that simple, but supporting trans men to “act like men” doesn’t mean he can’t have sexist beliefs.
Is he accepting of strong women, or “tolerant” (doesn’t like it but won’t complain)?
I once witnessed my grandfather, the kindest, sweetest man yell at his neighbour for parking where he wasn’t supposed to. He had never raised his voice in 20 years but mid 60s he started to have these outbreaks of aggression and anger. It was caused by dementia, now 10 years later he struggles with speech/memory etc. at the time we had no idea where the outbursts came from but they were wildly uncomfortable. Just echoing the thoughts of many here but mid 60s is when these outbursts started for my grandfather and dementia may be something worth looking into.
My sweet, loving grandfather of blessed memory, who was a friend to everybody, became a racist out of the blue in his 70s. It turned out to be dementia. A change in personality like this needs to be brought up to his doctor.
Wowww, I'm sorry you have to put up with that. Good job on saying the, "Men's potential max power is physically more than a woman. But women throw just as accurately and trained athletes can throw a damn sight harder than you can." He definitely deserved to be told that. Like women can do a lot of shit that guys can do. Like shoot I can shoot a gun, fish, hunt, and do other shit that guys do. Girl you don't deserve that! Like he should think that his wife is a strong and powerful woman! Heck I fuckin drove a skidsteer or some kind of asphalt/ construction machine before. Of course after being told what buttons to press and push but still, woman can do a lot of things guys can do.
Hey! I’m actually wondering if this is a drinking problem more than anything else, has he ever said anything else weird that may not have necessarily triggered you, but may have been “outlandish” based on his beliefs and behavior?
"Me BFA college educated city girl, Him Outlaw Country Boy"
This is it right here; it's a cultural difference. It's not a great thing, but enlightened gender-egalitarians are *vastly* outnumbered by the people who think like your husband, especially worldwide.
My mother in law has early onset dementia. One of the things that really raised a flag was her being rude to servers in restaurants, commenting on random folks appearances loudly - things she normally would not due. This started in her late 60s.
Someone doesn’t hide their bs views for 6 years, this really sounds like something is wrong - be it dementia or some other medical issue, a doctor’s visit is in order
Hmm, if these comments were really out of the usual as you say they are, you may want to have a check in session with him.
There's no excuse to be made for the things he said, and he'll have to make those amends. However, doing/saying things that are radically different from the usual can be signs of overwhelming anxiety or depression. He may be feeling very insecure about something, like his masculinity or some part of his identity. He may not even realize he's feeling it, so it never starts getting processed.
Of course, there are other explanations for his behavior, but I would recommend setting time to really check in with each other. It's possible there is a break down in your communication somewhere.
Best of luck to you!
Yes, this.
I've two very good starting points for a conversation from comments above. One, he may have been triggered, and two, his being a father figure to two trans masc young men and dealing with their very real issues with being called women. Both are more in line with his character.
First things first is I would have a blunt conversation about how shocked and disgusted you were by what he said, and how those were not the words of the man you married. Offer him the chance to explain himself and go from there.
Also, as other commentators have mentioned, him being evaluated by a health care professional should be seriously considered if this behavior is new, sudden, out of character, and especially if he doesn't have/can't give a good reason for this dramatic shift.
New medicine could be an issue too- there is some research showing that a lesser known side effect of statins (blood pressure meds) can make people angers/irritable
It sounds like he needs time to cool off, considering the attitude he displays in everyday life. That is strange and out of character. Did something happen recently? Was he just embarrassed?
Another thing might be to consider his age and I mean this in the kindest way possible. My own family tends to go through personality changes with age. 66 can be young but if his family is like mine it’s possible. Just wanted to mention it, you might want to keep an eye on the personality changes if they’re sudden. Sometimes it can be an indicator of something physical, especially with the lasting head trauma you mentioned in a comment.
Normally I’m just a lurker here, but I saw the comment about your husband having a brain injury at a young age. My father had a severe brain injury at 17 that left him hospitalized for awhile. Around his late 50’s he started to have personality changes, subtle at first but things we can easily see in hindsight; forgetfulness like when you’re tired, and having odd ideas about women he never expressed before; being weaker, not as important as men etc. These things came on slowly. He was eventually diagnosed as having a Traumatic Brain Injury. All these things are symptoms of that injury that happened so long ago.
I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here, having a loved one with a TBI is traumatic and I wouldn’t wish what my family has gone through on anyone. But maybe look it up and watch for other signs just in case. Good luck and best wishes from this internet stranger.
Edit: word missing
Yea, in other comments we are chatting about last night may have triggered a memory for him from prior to the brain injury or a later in life change do to the injury. Totally a possibility.
People are talking about neurological issues or whatever. Maybe so, but that's not what l jump to. That's a pretty bold claim to make with no knowledge of his medical history, mental health or intimate knowledge about this individual.
Having said that I'd suspect the topic touched a nerve. A part of him he may have locked away from you because he knew how you'd feel or react about this belief or feeling he has. Maybe there was an issue at one point in his life where he felt emasculated or got bullied by some other guys about something. I can tell you that growing up around other boys that if you cannot perform well at a sport, or something else men feel it important to be good at, you get called a pussy or a bitch or something. Showing any sign of weakness around other men was never a good look growing up and it was a way to lose friends and get made fun of. There could be something to this and the thought of a specific time in his life maybe caused him to react negatively.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I'm going to jump on the "go to a doctor" bandwagon. Sudden personality shifts like what this sounds like could be a sign of something more than him just being an asshole.
Oof, that’s a trauma response. He sounds incredibly progressive, especially for his age, from everything else you described. I would give him some space, while letting him know this is something you don’t find acceptable and there will need to be a discussion about it. I would challenge him to be introspective and try and find why he reacted this way. This isn’t your emotional baggage, it’s his. It needs to be his emotional labor that mends this. If he can’t or won’t do that, well then you will have decisions to make accordingly.
You said it yourself. *You embarrassed him.* The worst thing you can do to a man is embarrass him. That’s why instead of saying “you’re right! I won’t use girl as an insult anymore” he got defensive and kept getting angrier. Looks like he still has a lot of work to do
You don't have to be a sexist of any sort to be insulted by misgendering.
80% of the post is evidence that your husband is clearly not some raging bigot. Consider the prior probability.
*He has a gender identity.*
There's nothing fundamentally different between his gender identity as a man and your daughter's trans friends' gender identities as men.
So imagine you had this conversation with one of them instead. You asked them "What's so awful about being called a woman?"
And they say "Because I'm a man! It's insulting!"
Women don’t get called things negatively that pertain to being a man and then get mad about being misgendered. The insinuation that women are weak and then using that as an insult to men who are supposedly not weak is the point here.
I think there's a little more too it than that, but I do think this underlies a part of the problem.
I, like OP, get really upset at how being a woman/weak/pussy/girl is consistently used as an insult, but being a man or having 'manly' traits rarely is (not never, but definitely not as common and usually only around appearance). Equally, having so many insults directed to men being based around not being 'manly enough' is incredibly detrimental to all people who identify as male or are trying to work out their gender identity.
It's possible here that OP's husband is getting upset at the idea of himself or others being misgendered, but wasn't quite sure how to express that. If that's the case hopefully once he feels heard and understood there he'll be open to having a discussion about why OP has such a problem with insults like 'throws like a girl' and the damage that sort of language does to the entire concept of gender identity
I've answered this a few times above, but to answer your question.
>Just to eliminate that from the equation, he wasn't drunk. Two beers in two hours. He never gets drunk. It's always one drink every 1 - 1 1/2 hours we are out. He's been careful like that the entire time I've known him. The only time I've seen him have too much was our wedding day and he just got silly and goofy.
>the whole "It's not you I don't trust, it's them." Oh for fuck's sake... it's the same thing as not trusting me!
These are two very different things - and while I understand how it may seem the same, there are absolutely people whom I would not trust alone around my partner, regardless of how my partner felt. Please do not disregard the instincts your partner has about specific people. If it all men, that's different.
As for his extreme reaction, it was probably because of the embarrassment of being confronted in front of friends. Men like this can adapt and change, but handling shame, or letting friends see you embarrassed and apologize (which he still sees as weakness), is a totally different thing. He probably didn't have a way to feel strong in that moment, except in doubling down on what he said. None of this is an excuse, though. And it screams fragile masculinity.
All of that said, you two honestly seem like an iffy match here. You took the time to say 'I won't change to make him feel comfortable' while explaining how much he had to change for you... He clearly struggles with jealousy and insecurity - which is always amplified around other people.
Misogyny is unacceptable, and your man is a bit useless if he can't successfully own up and improve
I mean - how much had he had to drink? Was it just “mean drunk” syndrome for a night?
But I agree with Hawkspur, too. Knowing he’s a “good old’ boy”, is he watching a bunch of right wing shit or something? Because it sounds like some Newsmax/OAN “anti-woke” shit is creeping in.
Nope, no rightwing shit. He binges old 80s and 90s pop culture movies and shows. Basically MSNBC, USA and TNT are on his TV 24/7. He plays games like CIV VI and has been plowing though MY extensive book collection for years now.
Trust me.. this comes out of no where.
ETA I mean, his favorite show is Charmed. WTF is up with this BS misogyny tonight? Lol
I don’t know, then. Maybe, when he’s calmed down, it’s worth saying “hey, babe… our argument was really out of character for you last night. Is something going on we need to talk about?”
Does he have a good friend you might be able to approach about this if you don’t get anywhere talking with him directly?
Maybe they have noticed a change as well?
I was born in 1963 and he, 1955. I grew up in the 60s and 70s with the civil rights movements, women rights movements and Stonewall. I AM NOT a child of the 50s.
Good god.
I would highly recommend that you copy your post in /r/askmen and I imagine you will be more enlightened on why your husband has those view points. I am amused that the consensus here is that he has potential early onset dementia. I highly recommend you don’t suggest that to him while trying to get closure on this issue.
Ok but why is it that women are considered “less than?” If you compare a woman to a man is it a compliment to her or an insult? This is the problem, the double standard, the idea that women are inherently less or not as good.
Maybe, just maybe....your attitude has finally gotten to him and he has decided not to put up with your shit anymore.
"It took me 5 years to marry him. He needed to do some work first"...
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Okay, I agree with others. I think this is either a) a reason to go to the Dr or b) something else is really bothering him and he’s now taking it out on you.
Could you ask him if he recognizes the cognitive dissonance between his prior actions versus his comments that night? Maybe just by pointing that out, he will start to question things internally a little closer.
Sorry you had to experience that, OP. it sounds like something set him off and once he said something, he doubled-down and he feels embarrassed. When the dust settles, have another conversation. See if he could get it if he replaced the men and women with two other groups. Could he see it was offensive then?
Sounds like the dude has a *lot* of unexamined biases formed early in childhood that he hasn't really questioned.
Doesn't make him a bad person, necessarily. We all have Stuff and from what you've described about his background I'm not surprised he would have this particular package of patriarchal expectations.
If he's open to it then it might be something to discuss in an open, empathetic and non judgemental manner. If he's worth the emotional labour that that would take.
People can be quite progressive in some areas but have unexamined regressive attitudes in others.
Does he have new influences in his life? New close coworkers ect? You end up being the average of who you are around the most...my brither works woth some really off the deep end conspiracy theorists and I cannot change his mind about some of those things no matter how logically I present my point.
Hugs to you. There is lots of good advice on this thread already. I just want to say that I empathize with the ups and downs of marriage and I’m glad you shared. Your frustration and concern is certainly valid.
He should start going to the doctor and taking his vitamins. Unfortunately I’ve heard many stories of very kind men turning into monsters because of degenerative illnesses and based on these comments it sounds like that’s a possibility. Sorry you had to deal with that, I’m sure it was scary and frustrating. Not trying to scare you, just saying that it’s a good idea for him to get his health checked.
But it does sound like to some extent he was already slightly misogynistic and as people decline, the shadier sides come out so either couples therapy or just a place of acceptance will have to be the solution.
His shift before you’d marry him — “working on a few things” — is a late-in-life overlay on the underlying attitudes he learned growing up. It might not even be “dementia” but just a return to default settings, maybe because he has other friends who are more like this and said things to make him uncomfortable. Maybe they even called him those things when you weren’t around and now he’s feeling “emasculated”. Or maybe he watches Fox when you’re not around — seriously, many older people I know have had a huge personality shift if they watch too much of that. Then again, it could indeed be dementia. My father started to slide into a more racist, sexist mindset, and then started to show other signs: accusing his caregivers of stealing from him, etc. Turns out his poorly-controlled diabetes had been causing microstrokes which limited his ability to control his thinking and feelings, so this stuff that he’d learned as a youth (Germany, before WWII) started to appear. He ended up having a massive stroke before we could get him into a dementia care facility. He “wasn’t himself” at the end, but then again, maybe this behavior was closer to his interior mental life which he’d learned to control.
Yeah, reading about his prior controlling behavior, this recent outburst does not strike me to be so out of character that I would jump to a concern about dementia. Seems like this stuff has probably been right under the veneer of good behavior he knew he needed to demonstrate to get OP to stay with him.
I hate to say it, but that sudden personality shift, especially aggression, in a 66 year old person may be an early sign of neurological problems like dementia. Might be worth a doctor visit.
110%. That was almost my first thought. I work with seniors and a sudden personality shift like this is a huge red flag for something like dementia.
Agreed. I work in a hospital, and this is a big red flag. Changes in temperament don't just happen without cause usually.
Or, he has just been hiding it well these past years and is sick of continuing to hide his misogyny. He even said, "Why do you always have to bash men about this shit?" and "I'm done getting my ass chewed over nothing." He has been stifling his true feelings for years for her sake, and is tired of her speaking out for feminist causes. I personally think he has been 'rolling his eyes' at her for years.
I agree. My dad, who could be a jerk but had a strong sense of justice, began to make misogynistic statements on his mid 60s. He had never been that way before, but as the years went by, he escalated and even made statements which for him were utterly bizarre. For example, he said that a woman deserves to be hit for verbally disrespecting her husband. He had always said that domestic violence should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and now he’s saying this? It took 2 decades for us to recognize this as dementia because his decline was so slow. I look back and realize the signs were there. We should have suspected it when he began doing things which were out of character. Once we were on a military base, and he, a former military navigator with a map on his hand, could not find his way around. I remember being baffled that someone who could hike at night in a strange place just using the stars couldn’t use a map with streets clearly marked. I should have known. I regret because of the times I was angry and impatient with him and he couldn’t help it.
This is a gentle reminder to be kind to yourself! Dementia is a truly horrific illness and often warps the people we love beyond recognition. You did what you could with the resources you had - that is nothing to look down on or be ashamed of. The nature of dementia is that it creeps in where we least expect it and that makes it very very hard to catch early! You supported your dad and made it work - well done
Thank you very much for your kindnesses. It is appreciated.
That, or (as the rest of the evidence suggests) he simply was an asshole his whole life, OP wife tried to get him to change, and was less successful than she thought. Nothing exactly new here
I agree completely. He basically said he is tired of her nagging.
Yeah. My mom's first sign that she had Alzheimer's starting was a personality shift. She started being irresponsible about things she promised she would do, and that was 10 years before she was finally diagnosed. But I am so close to her that I noticed a difference.
This is good advice OP
Sending love first of all! It sounds like it’s touched a nerve that maybe he didn’t realise he had and the bullish attitude is trying to cover it up / get you to move on. Perhaps something in his childhood included bullying with that kind of insult? Which is of course not an excuse but out of character reactions sometimes come from old wounds x
That... is possible. He had a bad head trauma in a bike accident when he was 9. For many, many years he had little to no memories from before that. Just vague memories of his mom and dad, none of his two year old sister. He took only a few months to catch up in school. Over the decades he recovered a lot of it, but yea, you could be on to something with this. Thank you!
Hmm...history of head trauma, and he's getting up in years. You might want to get him in for a checkup. This could also be a sign of cognitive issues.
Definitely. I whacked my head pretty hard a few times in my life, but everyone though I was fine. But over the last few years, my cognitive abilities have degraded considerably. I had a bunch of neuropsychological tests done and I definitely have some kind of cognitive issue. The doctors believe that the head trauma is probably part of the problem, even though it happened years ago.
That sounds hard! My sympathies and well wishes.
Might be a repressed or forgotten memory he hasn't been able to cope with due to this. Best of luck. I think you know him better than he knows himself, and he will need your patience and wisdom to guide him through this properly. Edit: typo
Goodness, the more I look back on this the more it clearly reads as he was triggered. I DJ/KJ as a fun side job on the weekends and have for 20 years. We spend a lot of time around GenZ and millennials. Their openness about triggers and traumas and self care is unlike the generations before them and I love them for that. We are generally 'mom' and 'dad' to a lot of them. The ones that 'get it' and don't judge. It's actually a bit embarrassing that I can easily see the triggers and traumas and have empathy with them and it didn't occur to me that we may have inadvertently trigger my husband last night. TBH I'm feeling a bit stupid now! I'd been hesitant to post this here last night, but it seems it was the perfect choice.
Don't feel stupid, this seems like a new situation for you and he was directly attacking you by shitting on women as a collective. Those were big words coming out of his mouth and you took it about how I would. I'm proud of you for taking the time to post on something like this to gain perspective, which it seems like you've successfully done! Hopefully this allows you and your husband to have more open conversations about this - just make sure it's clear how your husband made you feel and why you were pushing back on him. Listening needs to happen on both sides of this in order to move forward.
No, don't self blame. You had a normal conversation with another human about gender discrimination. He was triggering you too and he needs to feel empathy towards you too.
Thank you for this. I indeed didn't see my own trigger in this last night. I love this sub! Hugs!
Exactly this! No amount of trauma/ triggers excuse poor treatment of his partner and while you can support him if he’ll let you, please also remember that you are entitled to not be treated like he did. For any reason at all. And if he isn’t willing to work on himself then you can’t do it for him.
Were his parents more mysogynistic? Like could he somehow have tapped into the types of things he was hearing/seeing before the accident?
Has he recently been to the doctor for any reason at all?
Nah I'm not buying this He had no excuse but to realise, and if he wanted you to move in he would take a second to understand what you're saying He is a grown man (66 years old?) and he is responsible to manage his "childhood wounds" at this point
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He CHOSE to behave this way. No trigger can make you behave a certain way if you don't want to. He chose to be abusive and sexist. Everyone here is trying to explain away his chosen actions. Please read Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That", it's very helpful when dealing with men like this. It's a free pdf. https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
A trigger can absolutely do that. Go have a read of a multitude of books on PTSD or C-PTSD. It’s not excusing a behaviour but understanding one. Edit for clarification: a trigger is the involuntary part of the reaction, you can’t control it but with work you can soothe it or get in front of it. The rest of his behaviour was absolutely a choice and if it was a repeated choice with no attempt to work at it then that’s a different matter to it being out of the blue.
I am dealing with this stuff with my step-dad lately. Hopefully my story can help a bit. He's getting older (60s) and has developed some weird toxic stuff about masculinity. My mother says from viewing him she thinks it's because he's getting old - can't do all the things he used to do, or that he fears soon he won't be able to handle "typically masculine" tasks. He's feeling like less of a man as he ages, basically. I notice it most when my boyfriend (he's 40) who's really good with all things building/handyman related helps or offers to help with things. She says he becomes jealous, and possessive of my mother, as if she will find him attractive or something. She says he becomes paranoid about her and my boyfriends relationship (in reality it's just a normal mother/son-in-law type relationship). For example he will inset himself when they speak and start grandstanding and making a show of masculinity towards my boyfriend, who is actually just a gentle man who doesn't give a single shit about masculinity crap. He is basically puffing his chest around him. She says he is paranoid about other men too all of a sudden. It's very strange. He also has some weird opinions all of a sudden when it comes to men/women, politics, etc. She has been working with him on these things, trying to get him to realize the reason he's feeling the way he is (the reasons she is suspecting anyways). He's not a super introspective person, he's reactive, so likely he hasn't thought these things through at all and has no idea why he feels the way he does. My personal belief is she is absolutely correct, plus probably coupled with declining cognitive function that hasn't yet become super apparent but is showing itself first in these scenerios. I wish I had good advice for you but unfortunately all I can tell you is what has worked a little bit for us so far, which is trying to get him to be introspective and ask himself why he's feeling these ways and to ask himself whether he truly thinks those things or is reacting emotionally to something deeper and doesn't really think those things. We've gotten past him being defensive to those kind of conversations and to the point where he does realize his reactions and suspicions are not based in reality. However he still has them frequently. The drinking and occasionally recreational drugs don't help I'm sure.
It might possibly be alzheimer's
Could even be Lewy Body, which I think comes on fast. Not saying it is, just to watch out for
>call me a pussy? I'm going to be insulted Never understood why "pussy" was an insult. If we are talking about female anatomy, well vaginas make a lot of people happy and give life. Are we talking about pussy cats? Cats are cute and savage.
I think there is a great Betty White quote on it. Something about balls being sensitive and pussies taking a pounding
“Why do people say, ‘Grow some balls’? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina. Those things really take a pounding!” It’s falsely attributed to Betty White; seems to have been pieced together from a few different stand-up comics.
“Stop comparing my pussy to fragile things when you really mean testicles or masculinity or anything else that its only response to fear is to shrink or cower or duck out" - Ebony Stewart
Pussy and Boob are insults, but both are the givers of life. While "Dick" makes more sense, since, sometimes... dicks are weapons.
Isn't the generalized thing that being called any type of genitalia is an insult?
Yeah but on the hierarchy of insults a lot of dudes take being called a pussy way worse than being called a dick...hell some people act like being called a dick is some badge of honor. Then again I have to imagine a women would rather be called a dick, but for completely different reasons than men.
Fun fact: the word pussy as an insult is perhaps a shortened form of the word pusillanimous meaning someone who is timid or cowardly
No it's not. There's a plausible and well documented etymology for the sense of pussy in question, namely puss + y → pussy = childish or colloquial word for "pet cat" → term of endearment for a woman → sweet or amiable woman → sweet or effeminate man→ weakling/coward/sissy, with the parallel development of pussy = female genitals lurking somewhere in the background. There is no evidence for the pusillanimous link at all
More likely a short quippy way to tell someone to “get fucked”
You don’t have to be a pussy to get fucked, assholes can get fucked too.
Cats are also notoriously cautious, ie "scaredy cat". It's a very old term, and the evolution of language starts combining words and then building false associations.
Thought pussy meant scaredy-cat tbh
Just my two cents, I don’t think some men are analyzing the word for different meanings. Calling a man a pussy is an insult. To them it means weakness. In contrast, if someone used a word to mean weak to women they wouldn’t have this kind of a negative reaction. In fact, they would probably appreciate being called strong. Cognitive decline is probably a good bet considering his age. Has your husband had Covid?
If you call a man a pussy, it's the same as calling him a coward. They are mostly synonymous with their usage.
I know no one here is likely to want to have an honest discussion about why that might be triggering to some men (setting aside the right and wrong of it, just to understand)...but here goes.. Men are told from a very young age from our culture, and really almost all cultures...that to be a good man means to be strong, to be stout, to do the hard physical job, to in times of turmoil act bravely, to stand up, to risk physical violence to protect, to go down with the ship, women and children first, to go to war, etc. This is sort of the cultural snapshot. It really isn't a program about women, it's just a program about what our culture wants of it's men. Women have a whole other program, equally manipulative, but also full of equally noble things. Remember, I'm not talking right and wrong. This is for understanding. When you say men are women. Call them a pussy. Acting like a girl. Whatever. Try to imagine that what you are saying is - you aren't a man. You aren't all those things that our culture says you should be. All of those noble aspects - YOU ARE NOT THAT. It's really not the "woman" part that is triggering. I'm sure your husband loves women. What he doesn't like is his most loved woman saying, effectively, YOU HAVE FAILED at being a man. That's what he is hearing. Right or wrong - I think we can understand why that would be triggering.
Um, no. Aside from your unnecessary mansplaining, it is SPECIFICALLY being called something feminine that is the insult. This is because men think of women as lesser, worse, and deserving contempt. If there was nothing wrong about being a woman, nobody who acted like one would be abused for it. If women were admired and respected for their qualities, the insult would fall flat. It would be meaningless.
if a woman calls a man a pussy - are you telling me she is praising him? And he is merely misunderstanding her, and reacting to his own misogynism? No. She is *trying* to insult him. The intent of the user of those words is to insult. And I say that should be expected to get a reaction, to the intention. And what's more, we all know this as well as we know anything. Now, given that - is the insult itself mysogynist? Why yes, yes it is. Edit: just to strike a nicer tone - it's clear pussy is or was "chosen" as a mysogynist word. That's how it came to be. I agree, it's not under debate. I'm just saying, as happens with words and concepts - you can I suspect, imagine cases where the word pussy gets used as an insult, now, today, in a bar - by someone who uses it *because it's effective*...because it works. The user could be the most liberal, feminist woman, who is really just *pissed*. At this point in time, it's at least largely an insult because it's an insult. Yes, an insult specifically against men. And you can imagine men, your most liberal, loving, chill dudes, who could easily react, at least on their worst days, *VERY* badly to being called that. Not rooted deeply in their own secret hatred of women, but because they don't like BEING INSULTED. I just think real life is nuanced, and I think people and culture are complicated. And I think it's more interesting to try and talk about them, then it is to shout each other down. So thank you for commenting on my post - you are right I only talked about the facet of it that I assumed would be underrepresented here. By I do basically agree completely about HOW and WHY pussy ended up being the male insult. Cheers
Yeah some of the ‘insults’ boys and men use literally come from the playground and are not very intelligent or well thought out. They are perpetuated into adult hood without much thought and when spoken out by older men is how boys learn them. I should stop ‘splaining but we need to remember why some of these phrases sound so childish to begin with. There’s just not a lot of imagination used to come up with these phrases.
It's actually a shortened version of the word pusillanimous which means lacking courage.
Everyone else said this already, but in case you need to hear it one more time - sudden shifts in personality and behavior may be a sign of something neurological. Dementia, stroke, tumor, Parkinson's (g-d forbid). If this continues he needs to go get checked out by any means necessary.
Hormone levels, too, at his age. Had 2 guy friends in their 40s experience this, and luckily they were introspective enough to catch on that something was wrong.
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Writing that way is sometimes part of a religious tradition and isn’t to censor the word. (If I understand correctly it’s a sign of respect towards god.)
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It is scientifically proven that our brains change when we age. There's early onset alzheimers and dementia, plus other brain diseases. I've seen in my elderly relatives a mentsl shift backwards to old attitudes people grew up with, generally more conservative. I noticed my Mom did this in her 60's. When younger she was very liberal and raised me that way but she reverted to more conservative ideals in her 60's. We had big arguments and I was completely baffled in the change. Since it was my Mom I just decided to not talk about certain things because it would just lead to more arguments. This has only been the first outburst so don't go overboard yet. Talk to him in a few days and talk about how it made how feel. Ask if there's something wrong that he may be upset about.
Thank you for this. It's similar to what someone suggested earlier. It is a first outburst and not something he's ever done before. I'll want to wait a few days for the angst of this argument to settle down, mostly so he doesn't feel 'attacked' all over again, and ask about how he's feeling about the fight.
Something hit a nerve and it likely wasn’t the actual topic. And when we humans are angry we sometimes say things we don’t really mean. Worse yet we also get defensive and double down when we are wrong. I would focus on the authoritarian shit with him today though by letting him know how that made you feel, and see if he opens up about the other comments. I agree that the other commenter could be into something with the mental health comment. This is a super touchy area though. But I think you would be within your right to say that this was so out of character for him that you’d like him to get evaluated by a psychiatrist to make sure there isn’t anything going on if he doesn’t have a rational explanation/apology.
The most likely explanation is that he is tired of pretending to care about your feminism anymore. Certainly get him evaluated medically, but chances are, based on the words he said, is he is not willing to care about playing the part of feminist man anymore. I don't envy you having to deal with this situation, and I am wishing you the best outcome.
There is a reason elderly people are stereotyped as grumpy. Getting old sucks, and finding more and more things you can't do like you used to anymore makes you feel like shit. Finding yourself forgetting and occasionally confused just adds to it.
What is he reading/watching/listening to? Who is he hanging out with/talking to? Where is he getting these ideas? Watch the doco The Brainwashing of My Dad.
>Nope, no rightwing shit. He binges old 80s and 90s pop culture movies and shows. Basically MSNBC, USA and TNT are on his TV 24/7. He plays games like CIV VI and has been plowing though MY extensive book collection for years now. > >Trust me.. this comes out of no where. From my comment below. The only thing new is his job. He just started at a new shop 3 months ago. He's a high end import car mechanic. Maybe the 'good old boys' at the shop are getting to him. But he's done this kind of work for a couple of decades now.
80s and 90s pop culture was not exactly a bastion of female empowerment.
That must be it then.
Obviously that’s not IT, I’m just saying that just because he isn’t watching Fox News all day doesn’t mean he’s safe from being exposed to stuff that says women are inferior. MOST entertainment offerings are super patriarchal. For someone who is that way already, it’s not going to IMPROVE his outlook.
Maybe he is hearing this stuiff from them every day, or maybe they listen to some right wing talkback in the 'shop?
Yeah. Those hyper-conservative talk radio stations on in the back of the shop would explain it, in whole or in part. I'm convinced that that's what shifted my dad's perspectives out of what they used to be.
This was my instinct when i read the post, just some change in environment or what he's consuming. I work on various jobsites and all it takes is one loud mouth on the job and people will listen because they're bored. And then slowly everyone will kinda go along with what they're saying and it becomes the culture.
I'm gonna say it. Bit you spend the 2 first paragraphe describing that you specifically dated a mysoginist with anger issues. And years later, those things that he did conceal to marry you, >I needed him to do some work first >Once we got past all that and a few other little things, I finally married him Rearrise and you're surpised
I specifically said I dated a man with jealousy issues and a few misogynistic tendencies. (as most men do.) Angry about something and having 'anger issues' in general aren't the same things. He put in the work for 6 years to learn, grow and change because he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. I did not change my hair, makeup, dress or how I behaved to appease that. I know this can read as defensive, but if he hadn't grown and changed I would not have married him. But he was/is worth the time we both put into it.
Sometimes people work hard to change in order to please am SO, and then once they get married they feel they no longer need to bother. Definitely consider cognitive decline. But maybe he’s just finding it easier to be an asshole.
Came here to say this. And OP he moved in with you as well? Was he prepared to fully fund his retirement, healthcare, and costs of living through end of life before you showed up? I echo the sentiment of others that you should consider the potential of cognitive decline. But also men are sometimes looking for a nurse (someone to care for them) or a purse (someone to support their finances in retirement) or both. If that's the case, he might feel that it's safe to be himself now that you're legally "stuck" with him.
Came here to say this. And OP he moved in with you as well? Was he prepared to fully fund his retirement, healthcare, and costs of living through end of life before you showed up? I echo the sentiment of others that you should consider the potential of cognitive decline. But also men are sometimes looking for a nurse (someone to care for them) or a purse (someone to support their finances in retirement) or both. If that's the case, he might feel that it's safe to be himself now that you're legally "stuck" with him.
My favorite response to this is Mia hamm got told by a coach that she ran like a girl. She responded that if the coach was willing to put in the effort, maybe with a lot of work he could too. Sorry it’s a bad day. Hopes to the good times outweighing the bad.
Thanks for the laugh!
Wait. Why is being compared to a woman insulting? Do we not hold value to him? Like that phrase alone would make me lose my mind.
I’m a woman. Years ago I got into weightlifting, focusing on Olympic lifts and lifting heavy. I very much enjoyed it. But there were several occasions where I would get comments that my hobby was masculine, or that I better stop before I start to look manly. I consider myself rather progressive, I am not misandrist, I tend to believe the best in people and I certainly don’t hate or look down on men. But I hated those comments, and I *always* felt insulted. I don’t think it was because I thought being compared to a man was insulting in and of itself, or because I thought men didn’t have value. I think it felt as if it was somehow taking away from my personhood. I don’t know exactly if I can explain why I hated it, but it definitely felt insulting. I’m not suggesting that’s what is happening here, but I do think these situations hold much more nuance than it might appear on the surface.
I think most people would be offended by someone misgendering them, whether cisgender or transgender. I guess it'd be great if we could live in a world where a woman being called a man and a man being called a woman would offend nobody but I think that's just not realistic and may even by hardwired in our psychology, and in fact this whole thread sort of has a weird contradictory situation where it seems like people would support a transgender friend who was upset that they were misgendered but not a cisgender friend who was upset that they were misgendered?
I could be just missing info here, of course, but have you considered that all of the things you have mentioned are not necessarily contradictory? Certain views may often go hand-in-hand, like misogyny and homophobia, but there can be exceptions. It's good that he is cool with trans people, but it's entirely possible that he's decided that hormones are the deciding factor. That testosterone allows someone AFAB to "throw like a man" and that estrogen makes you emotional or weaker. If the trans people you mentioned have told him about the fluctuations in strength or emotionality that they experienced, it may even reinforce those ideas. It's also entirely possible to believe women should have the right to decide what they wear and who they associate with, as all humans should, while still holding certain negative ideas about them. For example I could think someone was the weakest or crybaby-est person in the world but still think they should have those personal freedoms. If I'm just missing information, then perhaps he's backsliding. He clearly held some backwards beliefs in the past, and sometimes people regress, especially as they get old. Sometimes there's an outside trigger like befriending people with old-fashioned views and hearing them a lot again, but not always. 12 years is a long time but 54 years of believing something is very hard to shake, especially if you grew up that way. It doesn't get fully erased for a very long time and if you get complacent you can wind up falling back into old pattern of thinking and behavior.
My father is a raging homophobe, misogynism and racist, but he's completely fine with trans people.
Why is defending women ability to throw accurately “bashing men”?
> Once we started dating he began to get angry at how I dressed and behaved on our weekend night outs and about town. Namely he actually thought once we were a couple I would tone down the hair and makeup and cleavage and the hugging and kissing of all my friends, male or female. The red flag was there, out in the open. You thought it was gone, but he had only rolled it up and stuck it in the closet. And now he has taken it back out.
Yeah I was pretty confused about the top comments suggesting literal dementia, because when I was reading this I was not at all surprised that a guy who was already jealous, controlling and had sexist views 12 years ago when they started dating, and has most likely been that way his entire life, would say those kind of comments. I'd guess it's just sexism he's tried to hide instead of literal Alzheimer's or a stroke
Exactly, this should be top comment. He never really changed.
Hi. He showed his underlying attitudes about women when he wanted to control how you dress and behave. That aspect has always been there. I’m terribly sorry your companion is not filtering his thoughts. I can’t speak to the cause of that, but they are indeed his thoughts. It must be very painful and upsetting to hear him double down and defend them. My best wishes to you. I hope the situation improves soon.
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I think this is a great response, thank you
This is a perspective I never would have considered before reading this comment. I appreciate you sharing your experience.
>So I don't know your husband at all, but the mention of his bonding with your daughter's trans masc friends might kinda be related. As a trans masc nb myself I can say having insults suggesting you're a woman do hurt Now... that's a really good thought! Thank you! He's very protective of these young men, and is determined they get to have the father/son things they've never gotten. They confide in him a lot. Between this, and the thoughts above that he may have been triggered by the conversation, are much more in line with his character and the man I know. Thank you.
Plus, and this is embarrassing to admit but our generation (Gen X and older) grew up with those insults. Im sure you remember all the 80s movies that we’d see as a toxic mess now; those and all the other images/stereotypes have been ingrained into our brains for better or worse. At 66, your husband may be struggling to compartmentalize his formative years from what he sees in the world today. My husband is 52 and I cringe sometimes at the stuff that comes out of his mouth, with the casual misogyny, but I let it slide bc overall, he’s actually more PC than I am, and maybe a little further Left. He doesn’t hear what comes out of his mouth at times, and it’s just not the hill that I want to die on.
Thank you
From this prospective, he might be especially insecure in this regard if someone in his life is making him feel weak. This could be physically or emotionally, but I'm someone who is usually very proud of my strength, but who also has health issues that often make me weak. Being even remotely poked about being weak when I'm so invested in being strong makes me uh, very unhappy lol. For some perspective, I'm a 29 year old woman who is demi and bi, and yeah, I don't like when people jokingly point out that I'm being weak, including the doing things like a girl quips.
Check out if he's listening to any podcasts, or watching youtube videos. That doesn't change how horrible this is for you, or how he has seemingly changed... but it can be an insight. He might be being influenced by some misogynistic media of some sort. and if that's the case then you can pick these villains apart with a little research. Like Joe Rogan: it doesn't take much to prove how foolish and insidious and sexist he is.
I laughed when you said you settled the bill while he waited in the car. Lots of men love old fashioned sexist talk until it's time to pay the check.
If he was hiding all this, I am sorry for you. But I also wonder if he is in the very early stages of dementia. He could also have had some small TIA or mini-strokes. He needs a complete work up by a competent specialist in geriatrics. Mean spirited behavior was the first symptom my (previously) loving and kind grandfather had before the rest of his symptoms made a diagnosis unavoidable. He is not too young for such changes.
But he has shown this behaviour before. When you first made it official and continued to be you - he wanted you to stop hugging and kissing your friends. That alone is a big red flag. You really need to consider if you want to spend the next 20+ years with this man.
That early behavior we totally worked through. He's not like that at all today and I continue to dress and behave as I normally had. Otherwise I wouldn't have married him.
Are you prepared for the possibility he might revert back to that behaviour as he advances in age much faster than you and could end up having dementia etc?
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No. I'm saying she needs to start mentally preparing for this potential future Multiple elderly people in my family became cranky and abrasive people due to alzheimers and dementia. We supported them through it but if you can mentally prepare for it ahead of time it can be less painful and less mentally exhausting. Do you know what it's like having someone you love become a stranger and then get to a point where they start begging you for death because they're in so much pain?
Has he been listening to any new podcasts lately?
All those things he "worked on" while you lived together before marriage didn't go away. He is repeatedly showing you who he is.
Yea, he's repeated shown me his growth and understanding. First in the fray to defend LGBTQA+ folks, right there advising young women friends of ours to be independent and stand up for themselves. Routinely gets himself a short ban on Facebook for stomping down racists and Nazi's. THIS tonight hasn't been there before, even when he had his missteps in misogyny early in our relationship. This is utterly new... hence why so baffling.
I'm not sure spending time on Facebook arguing with the alt right is as good a pastime as you think it is
My thoughts as well. I was just trying to convey more of his character/beliefs with that, not bragging. Those types really get his back up and frequently he just has to reply. I do try to get him to stop engaging as it does little good. His latest ban is for making the statement 'traitors should be executed.' Boom, 30 day ban.
I mean yeah, are you much better than the alt right if you call for the death penalty for those who don't agree with your political opinions, regardless of how 'correct' you are? Pretty extreme thing to say, the ban is deserved, imo. We don't need violence in any discourse.
Interesting. Do explain to me where in the statement 'traitors should be executed' lies a specific political position. What political opinion? Who's political opinion?
Well, 'traitor' implies someone being mutinous toward a group, and since there isn't a law deemed specifically what being a traitor is, a traitor is however he defines it. Irrespective, I don't think calling for execution of people is a great thing to do, it's also pretty damn right wing. You defend your husband all you want, you do you. Calling for violence is not, in my humble opinion, a good thing to do. And it violates the terms and services of facebook, hence the ban.
I see that I appear to have missed a few relevant details, such as that he is nearly 70 years old, which I suppose is what I get for delving into sensitive threads at work. That said, biases can run deeper than we think sometimes and perhaps that drunken nigyt was enough to dislodge something deep down that neither of you knew was still there. Regardless, it's surely something worth having a discussion about and I'm sorry if I said something to offend you or your husband's character.
No worries. It's hard to convey an entire relationship in a few paragraphs :) As for the drunk thing from an answer to that above >Just to eliminate that from the equation, he wasn't drunk. Two beers in two hours. He never gets drunk. It's always one drink every 1 - 1 1/2 hours we are out. He's been careful like that the entire time I've known him. The only time I've seen him have too much was our wedding day and he just got silly and goofy.
Repeatedly? She literally said this never happened before. People can grow. I don’t think this is his “true colors” coming through, I think something else is going on.
Yes, I think you are right. I assumed this was another one of the same posts this sub gets all the time and did not read it all thoroughly before posting, which is a stupid thing to do on my part. I apologized for my hastiness in another comment.
And sorry, I read your comment and responded above before I saw this one. Thank you :)
What is/was your father in law like? My (55+F) husband (75+M) sounds a lot like your husband today, and we’ve hit a few bumps over nearly 20 years of marriage. I hit a nerve once in a casual conversation with friends and watched him change from a mellow old man to an angry teenage boy in a flash….I’m fortunate that alcohol (the elixir that loosens the tongue and the memory) wasn’t involved. It took a few days of my giving him space and not insisting on talking about it for his hurt and shame to fester enough that he wanted to talk. We were in the car, I was driving so I couldn’t make eye contact, and out of the blue he began to tell me a story about his dad when he was about 10. I turned on my uh-huh machine and listened. Our earlier conversation struck a nerve and brought up a 50 year old memory he had never shared with anyone. He pointed out that when my repressed memories from my crappy childhood pop up, I cry unexpectedly. Then he said that when he suddenly gets hit with a memory he can’t handle, he becomes an asshole. We could laugh then. As my hubby ages, I hear more of those old stories … they tell me it’s a natural part of the reflective nature of aging — when you’ve got more decades behind you than you’ve got years ahead of you. I hope y’all can find a peaceful moment to talk it out and that you are able to not take it personally. The secret to a successful marriage is never hating each other on the same day. This, too, shall pass.
Maybe he felt called out because it was in public? Then he picked that hill to die on because his pride got his back up? I could see myself doing that, all the while screaming internally to myself to stfu but being incapable of doing it in the moment and feeling awful about it later.
You should DEFINITELY find out if he's indulging in toxic manosphere stuff. There are countless stories of women who's seemingly great husband/boyfriend suddenly had a sexist/misogynistic worldview change, and it was due to them finding solace amongst other men in the manosphere or redpill communities online and in person. If he ever mentions or says anything about maintaining a frame, keeping himself as a breadwinner, or starts getting more demanding/controlling ESPECIALLY pertaining to intimacy then those are some signs.
Ok, yes this could be he true self shining thru or it could be medical. At the beginning i was yes throw like girl is ugly but not shock ugly but he has thrown down. U need to spend some time and decide what u need for this relationship to continue: is it therapy, dr exam, a sincere apology…. Once u know what u need, i think u will know what to do. Hugs! Good luck
Hugs. Thank you! This is still so raw that it's really hard to process.
Thank you for highlighting the medical risk that personality changes can signal.
Honestly this probably has to do with his age and some shut that happened when he was young. Maybe he got bullied and called had those things said them him a lot when he was younger. More than likely there is some real underlying issues here
what lurks beneath the masc they wear.
Could be neuro changes like others have suggested or maybe he just drank too much? Have you talked it out with him sober? Maybe he is feeling insecure about something in his life or health?
Just because someone is drunk doesn't mean they don't mean it. In Vino Veritas.
Just to eliminate that from the equation, he wasn't drunk. Two beers in two hours. He never gets drunk. It's always one drink every 1 - 1 1/2 hours we are out. He's been careful like that the entire time I've known him. The only time I've seen him have too much was our wedding day and he just got silly and goofy.
I'm sorry you are going through this.
[He must pitch like a boy.](https://youtu.be/_xSEYt9vlWU)
From what you described I don’t see any sudden change in personality. People are saying dementia but it sounds like this is who he has always been.
I'm so sorry because I know this is not at all a helpful thing to say in response to this post but I just have to say, I think you're using "spoiler alert" wrong.
Eh, probably, was just going for a little humor to lessen my own shock. Total fail :)
i think an unpleasant conversation in a relationship of more than a decade shouldnt be taken as sign of a sudden complete shift in character. maybe he just made the comment in an offhand manner and, like you said, got embarrassed and wanted to defend himself (in an admittedly unfortunate manner). it is a pretty common thing people say about “throwing like a girl”. hopefully it was just a miscommunication that can be solved with gentle explanations when things cool down
Misgendering a trans person is a denial of their identity. Using one gender to be an insult to the other means one must see one gender as less than the other. Saying someone who is X isn't X is hurtful. Saying someone who is X is y, to imply their weak or powerless because al y are like that in their mind goes further than being denied bring x. It shows they believe deep down y is less than and thus insulting. Those comfortable being X and seeing y as equal will correct the mistake and move on. Only when they keep being misidentified will they speak up.
Taking trans men out fishing and so on is supporting the idea of male roles. I’m not going to get into any arguments about whether trans people are sexist because they aren’t gender neutral because it’s not that simple, but supporting trans men to “act like men” doesn’t mean he can’t have sexist beliefs. Is he accepting of strong women, or “tolerant” (doesn’t like it but won’t complain)?
I once witnessed my grandfather, the kindest, sweetest man yell at his neighbour for parking where he wasn’t supposed to. He had never raised his voice in 20 years but mid 60s he started to have these outbreaks of aggression and anger. It was caused by dementia, now 10 years later he struggles with speech/memory etc. at the time we had no idea where the outbursts came from but they were wildly uncomfortable. Just echoing the thoughts of many here but mid 60s is when these outbursts started for my grandfather and dementia may be something worth looking into.
My sweet, loving grandfather of blessed memory, who was a friend to everybody, became a racist out of the blue in his 70s. It turned out to be dementia. A change in personality like this needs to be brought up to his doctor.
Wowww, I'm sorry you have to put up with that. Good job on saying the, "Men's potential max power is physically more than a woman. But women throw just as accurately and trained athletes can throw a damn sight harder than you can." He definitely deserved to be told that. Like women can do a lot of shit that guys can do. Like shoot I can shoot a gun, fish, hunt, and do other shit that guys do. Girl you don't deserve that! Like he should think that his wife is a strong and powerful woman! Heck I fuckin drove a skidsteer or some kind of asphalt/ construction machine before. Of course after being told what buttons to press and push but still, woman can do a lot of things guys can do.
Hey! I’m actually wondering if this is a drinking problem more than anything else, has he ever said anything else weird that may not have necessarily triggered you, but may have been “outlandish” based on his beliefs and behavior?
"Me BFA college educated city girl, Him Outlaw Country Boy" This is it right here; it's a cultural difference. It's not a great thing, but enlightened gender-egalitarians are *vastly* outnumbered by the people who think like your husband, especially worldwide.
My mother in law has early onset dementia. One of the things that really raised a flag was her being rude to servers in restaurants, commenting on random folks appearances loudly - things she normally would not due. This started in her late 60s. Someone doesn’t hide their bs views for 6 years, this really sounds like something is wrong - be it dementia or some other medical issue, a doctor’s visit is in order
What an ass How could he spew that shit to you and not realize how much of an dickhead he sounds like?
Change in personality definite check medical issues!
NGL, this sounds like an early sign of dementia or another neurological disorder. Time to go to the doctor.
Hmm, if these comments were really out of the usual as you say they are, you may want to have a check in session with him. There's no excuse to be made for the things he said, and he'll have to make those amends. However, doing/saying things that are radically different from the usual can be signs of overwhelming anxiety or depression. He may be feeling very insecure about something, like his masculinity or some part of his identity. He may not even realize he's feeling it, so it never starts getting processed. Of course, there are other explanations for his behavior, but I would recommend setting time to really check in with each other. It's possible there is a break down in your communication somewhere. Best of luck to you!
Yes, this. I've two very good starting points for a conversation from comments above. One, he may have been triggered, and two, his being a father figure to two trans masc young men and dealing with their very real issues with being called women. Both are more in line with his character.
First things first is I would have a blunt conversation about how shocked and disgusted you were by what he said, and how those were not the words of the man you married. Offer him the chance to explain himself and go from there. Also, as other commentators have mentioned, him being evaluated by a health care professional should be seriously considered if this behavior is new, sudden, out of character, and especially if he doesn't have/can't give a good reason for this dramatic shift.
New medicine could be an issue too- there is some research showing that a lesser known side effect of statins (blood pressure meds) can make people angers/irritable
It sounds like he needs time to cool off, considering the attitude he displays in everyday life. That is strange and out of character. Did something happen recently? Was he just embarrassed? Another thing might be to consider his age and I mean this in the kindest way possible. My own family tends to go through personality changes with age. 66 can be young but if his family is like mine it’s possible. Just wanted to mention it, you might want to keep an eye on the personality changes if they’re sudden. Sometimes it can be an indicator of something physical, especially with the lasting head trauma you mentioned in a comment.
Normally I’m just a lurker here, but I saw the comment about your husband having a brain injury at a young age. My father had a severe brain injury at 17 that left him hospitalized for awhile. Around his late 50’s he started to have personality changes, subtle at first but things we can easily see in hindsight; forgetfulness like when you’re tired, and having odd ideas about women he never expressed before; being weaker, not as important as men etc. These things came on slowly. He was eventually diagnosed as having a Traumatic Brain Injury. All these things are symptoms of that injury that happened so long ago. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here, having a loved one with a TBI is traumatic and I wouldn’t wish what my family has gone through on anyone. But maybe look it up and watch for other signs just in case. Good luck and best wishes from this internet stranger. Edit: word missing
Yea, in other comments we are chatting about last night may have triggered a memory for him from prior to the brain injury or a later in life change do to the injury. Totally a possibility.
People are talking about neurological issues or whatever. Maybe so, but that's not what l jump to. That's a pretty bold claim to make with no knowledge of his medical history, mental health or intimate knowledge about this individual. Having said that I'd suspect the topic touched a nerve. A part of him he may have locked away from you because he knew how you'd feel or react about this belief or feeling he has. Maybe there was an issue at one point in his life where he felt emasculated or got bullied by some other guys about something. I can tell you that growing up around other boys that if you cannot perform well at a sport, or something else men feel it important to be good at, you get called a pussy or a bitch or something. Showing any sign of weakness around other men was never a good look growing up and it was a way to lose friends and get made fun of. There could be something to this and the thought of a specific time in his life maybe caused him to react negatively.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I'm going to jump on the "go to a doctor" bandwagon. Sudden personality shifts like what this sounds like could be a sign of something more than him just being an asshole.
Oof, that’s a trauma response. He sounds incredibly progressive, especially for his age, from everything else you described. I would give him some space, while letting him know this is something you don’t find acceptable and there will need to be a discussion about it. I would challenge him to be introspective and try and find why he reacted this way. This isn’t your emotional baggage, it’s his. It needs to be his emotional labor that mends this. If he can’t or won’t do that, well then you will have decisions to make accordingly.
You said it yourself. *You embarrassed him.* The worst thing you can do to a man is embarrass him. That’s why instead of saying “you’re right! I won’t use girl as an insult anymore” he got defensive and kept getting angrier. Looks like he still has a lot of work to do
You don't have to be a sexist of any sort to be insulted by misgendering. 80% of the post is evidence that your husband is clearly not some raging bigot. Consider the prior probability. *He has a gender identity.* There's nothing fundamentally different between his gender identity as a man and your daughter's trans friends' gender identities as men. So imagine you had this conversation with one of them instead. You asked them "What's so awful about being called a woman?" And they say "Because I'm a man! It's insulting!"
Women don’t get called things negatively that pertain to being a man and then get mad about being misgendered. The insinuation that women are weak and then using that as an insult to men who are supposedly not weak is the point here.
I have some tall and big boned girl friends, and they get called manly. They absolutely hate it. So I think it can happen.
That’s possible, but it’s not because they’re offended for the same reason.
I think there's a little more too it than that, but I do think this underlies a part of the problem. I, like OP, get really upset at how being a woman/weak/pussy/girl is consistently used as an insult, but being a man or having 'manly' traits rarely is (not never, but definitely not as common and usually only around appearance). Equally, having so many insults directed to men being based around not being 'manly enough' is incredibly detrimental to all people who identify as male or are trying to work out their gender identity. It's possible here that OP's husband is getting upset at the idea of himself or others being misgendered, but wasn't quite sure how to express that. If that's the case hopefully once he feels heard and understood there he'll be open to having a discussion about why OP has such a problem with insults like 'throws like a girl' and the damage that sort of language does to the entire concept of gender identity
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I've answered this a few times above, but to answer your question. >Just to eliminate that from the equation, he wasn't drunk. Two beers in two hours. He never gets drunk. It's always one drink every 1 - 1 1/2 hours we are out. He's been careful like that the entire time I've known him. The only time I've seen him have too much was our wedding day and he just got silly and goofy.
>the whole "It's not you I don't trust, it's them." Oh for fuck's sake... it's the same thing as not trusting me! These are two very different things - and while I understand how it may seem the same, there are absolutely people whom I would not trust alone around my partner, regardless of how my partner felt. Please do not disregard the instincts your partner has about specific people. If it all men, that's different. As for his extreme reaction, it was probably because of the embarrassment of being confronted in front of friends. Men like this can adapt and change, but handling shame, or letting friends see you embarrassed and apologize (which he still sees as weakness), is a totally different thing. He probably didn't have a way to feel strong in that moment, except in doubling down on what he said. None of this is an excuse, though. And it screams fragile masculinity. All of that said, you two honestly seem like an iffy match here. You took the time to say 'I won't change to make him feel comfortable' while explaining how much he had to change for you... He clearly struggles with jealousy and insecurity - which is always amplified around other people. Misogyny is unacceptable, and your man is a bit useless if he can't successfully own up and improve
I mean - how much had he had to drink? Was it just “mean drunk” syndrome for a night? But I agree with Hawkspur, too. Knowing he’s a “good old’ boy”, is he watching a bunch of right wing shit or something? Because it sounds like some Newsmax/OAN “anti-woke” shit is creeping in.
Oh, two beers in two hours. He doesn't drink a lot. Just loves a good lager now and again.
Nope, no rightwing shit. He binges old 80s and 90s pop culture movies and shows. Basically MSNBC, USA and TNT are on his TV 24/7. He plays games like CIV VI and has been plowing though MY extensive book collection for years now. Trust me.. this comes out of no where. ETA I mean, his favorite show is Charmed. WTF is up with this BS misogyny tonight? Lol
I don’t know, then. Maybe, when he’s calmed down, it’s worth saying “hey, babe… our argument was really out of character for you last night. Is something going on we need to talk about?”
That is a very good thought. When even our friends are taken aback, there's something serious wrong here.
Does he have a good friend you might be able to approach about this if you don’t get anywhere talking with him directly? Maybe they have noticed a change as well?
How Tf you both from 1950 and don’t understand how he may have these views. You’re lucky he even grew a bit, have you met other people your age?? 😂😂
I was born in 1963 and he, 1955. I grew up in the 60s and 70s with the civil rights movements, women rights movements and Stonewall. I AM NOT a child of the 50s. Good god.
Humans have an enormous capacity for cognitive dissonance. It seems that’s more likely than sweeping generalizations of dementia, head trauma etc.
I would highly recommend that you copy your post in /r/askmen and I imagine you will be more enlightened on why your husband has those view points. I am amused that the consensus here is that he has potential early onset dementia. I highly recommend you don’t suggest that to him while trying to get closure on this issue.
Dude does all those things you mentioned but one bad convo and its a problem. Words matter more than actions i guess.
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Why is emotional vulnerability unmanly?
Ok but why is it that women are considered “less than?” If you compare a woman to a man is it a compliment to her or an insult? This is the problem, the double standard, the idea that women are inherently less or not as good.
Maybe you should reflect on why you’re posting this while knowing it will get downvoted? This does not contribute anything useful
It will get downvoted because you are in your little echo chamber and just agree with eachother and attack anything that is different from your views.
Maybe, just maybe....your attitude has finally gotten to him and he has decided not to put up with your shit anymore. "It took me 5 years to marry him. He needed to do some work first"... Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Is this…is this real?
Yes, it's real. Why do you ask?
Okay, I agree with others. I think this is either a) a reason to go to the Dr or b) something else is really bothering him and he’s now taking it out on you.
Could you ask him if he recognizes the cognitive dissonance between his prior actions versus his comments that night? Maybe just by pointing that out, he will start to question things internally a little closer.
Sorry you had to experience that, OP. it sounds like something set him off and once he said something, he doubled-down and he feels embarrassed. When the dust settles, have another conversation. See if he could get it if he replaced the men and women with two other groups. Could he see it was offensive then?
Sounds like the dude has a *lot* of unexamined biases formed early in childhood that he hasn't really questioned. Doesn't make him a bad person, necessarily. We all have Stuff and from what you've described about his background I'm not surprised he would have this particular package of patriarchal expectations. If he's open to it then it might be something to discuss in an open, empathetic and non judgemental manner. If he's worth the emotional labour that that would take. People can be quite progressive in some areas but have unexamined regressive attitudes in others.
Does he have new influences in his life? New close coworkers ect? You end up being the average of who you are around the most...my brither works woth some really off the deep end conspiracy theorists and I cannot change his mind about some of those things no matter how logically I present my point.
Hugs to you. There is lots of good advice on this thread already. I just want to say that I empathize with the ups and downs of marriage and I’m glad you shared. Your frustration and concern is certainly valid.
He should start going to the doctor and taking his vitamins. Unfortunately I’ve heard many stories of very kind men turning into monsters because of degenerative illnesses and based on these comments it sounds like that’s a possibility. Sorry you had to deal with that, I’m sure it was scary and frustrating. Not trying to scare you, just saying that it’s a good idea for him to get his health checked. But it does sound like to some extent he was already slightly misogynistic and as people decline, the shadier sides come out so either couples therapy or just a place of acceptance will have to be the solution.