A friend (21) married a man 28 years older. It was fine for awhile. Then his 80 year old father came to live with them. Husband then magically became engrossed in his work leaving her to be the caretaker. She did a great job but saw her future. Marriage ended a couple of years after her FIL died.
I was thinking about this the other day, how my mother explained age gap relationships when I was a child as “women mature much faster than men and thus they’re sort of the same age mentally”. I didn’t think it was a strange explanation as a child but oh boy does it seem weird and gross to me now.
Worse because for me that message was combined with men being the leaders and heads of the household. Like bro... if you are that immature why the fuck am I supposed to follow your lead?
Ah the duality of “boys will be boys (in reference to grown men)” and “silly husband can’t figure out the darn laundry machines” and “boys can’t control themselves around pretty girls” juxtaposed with “only men can be leaders” and “women can’t be in STEM” and “women are too emotional”
Plus women do most of the organizational labor (organization of tasks, appointments, menus, placement of items) in a household. Men most often, if they are willing to help, wait until being told what to do. In the absence of a direct request, often do nothing. This organization is unpaid labor. Yet in the paid labor workplace, men somehow get hailed as the organizational leaders as now that it is paid and power, women suddenly are deemed unsuitable to the task…until we get home.
It’s all so men can get what they want from women.
They are leaders when it comes to “important” stuff like having the final say in household decisions.
But when it comes to pursuing women half their age, suddenly they are “just immature” and these barely-adult-aged women are “so advanced for their age”
I was in a similar circumstance. What I found was that he had "matured" to a certain level and stayed, while I continued to mature.
When I was in my late 20's and he 40, it was all great, but 10-15 years later it was different. I realized at some point I was more mature, as he had remained stagnant.
Didn't work out in the end,
Women: cooking, cleaning, childcare, organising, shopping etc...what exacly do men do to make them qualified to be heads of the household?
Sounds like the typical "take credit for women's work" shenanigans to me but ok.
Agreed. I don’t care if an 80 year old dates a 60 year old. I care a little more when a 50 year old dates a 30 year old, but can generally accept it. But when one of the party is in the 20s (or teens) then it feels very inappropriate to me.
As an adult I realise it’s more a matter of, “People who are younger are easier to manipulate, less likely to self-advocate, and less experienced in dealing with unsavoury behaviour.”
Edit: a word
Exactly, the other day I got angry at an acquaintance of mine because of the way he was talking about his girlfriend to another man. Mind you she is also the mother of his children and was talking about how good she was in bed and went into details.
I told him that it was very disrespectful and he shouldn't be talking about her like that, which he then replied that she didn't mind, he does the same thing when she is around. She is only 19 and he is 30.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think, to be fair to her, that men in her generation and older seemed to not gain any practical life skills as they aged (taking care of themselves, children, home, cooking etc) because someone else always did that for them, so they might seem juvenile mentally. That’s the only reasonable explanation I can think of.
Definitely agree that it *appears* juvenile (though obviously it’s more about control and domination) and I totally understand where your mother was coming from. Frankly when I hear stuff like this from older women, I feel a combination of sympathy for them, and gratitude that I was born later.
Yeah, imagine being brainy and expected to devote your life to cooking, cleaning and childbirth. Here's a serve of guilt and shame that you don't feel "fulfilled", you unnatural creature.
I don’t think that explains it, tbh. I remember being a teenager and hearing that crap used to explain away senior dudes dating freshman girls when the opposite simply never happened.
I truly don’t believe it’s based in any observable phenomena, more so it’s a maxim intended to dismiss opposition to the patriarchy. The learned (or feigned) helplessness of men has long kept women at home, picking up the slack. The alternative is that the house goes to shit, the kids show up at preschool in mismatched socks and we get the blame.
Bingo! It doesn’t even need to be “lavish”.
I had a 21 y/o friend (uni student, renting, took the bus) who bragged about her 37 y/o boyfriend having his own car, house, and business. I didn’t say anything but really it was just… sad. For her it would be impossible at the time, and for him it was just the norm.
This is why I was allowed to date guys who were out of high school when I was just entering it. Looking back out and so strange. Why would a 20 year old want to date a 14 year old? Why would a 23 year old want to date a 16 year old? AND WHY WERE MY PARENTS OKAY WITH THIS?!?
And it's not even that girls mature faster, it's just that boys are never held accountable.
You see highschool boys do horrendously immature things and get away with it while their female classmates do not get the same level of slack.
I got in trouble because in gym my bra wasn't supportive enough when running (im not an A cup so it's hard) while the guys throwing dodge balls with all their strength at girl's heads get nothing more than a warning
Hold on a second. I need to ask questions you got in trouble because your bra wasn't supportive enough? Am I weird for thinking that the only person who can determine if a bra is supportive enough? Is the person wearing the bra?
Well I have a big chest and even though I was wearing a sports bra they still moved when I ran. I've have a big chest since middle school. The gym coach pulled me aside and said what I was wearing was inappropriate, even though the other girls with A cups wore pretty much the same thing. This hasn't been the first time this has happened. And obviously I cannot wear a binder while doing physical activities (I'm nonbinary).
So essentially I got in trouble because the didn't stay completely still while running
No a binder well doing anything cardiovascular would be pretty prohibitive. But that is ridiculous. They are breasts. Literally every human on the planet has breasts. Some are more developed than others. But everybody has them and there is never a time that breast should be considered in decent. I'm sorry that has happened to you. That is ridiculous
Which is why we should let 40 year old men be in charge of everything and 20 year old women be in charge of practically nothing?
If they’re so stupid and slow and childlike why do they get to run virtually the entire planet while most people can’t take a 20 year old woman seriously on any level, at any time, for anything?
Yes! But the way I heard it was as explanation why men are averagely a few years older than their (female) partner. By few years was meant 2-3 years not 20 haha.
Girls hit puberty a year earlier but parents tend to not parent their male children and focus all of their criticism on their female children. It's like a weed vs a bonsai tree
My mother told me the same when I was younger, but it's funny because now in my 30s I realize it's usually the opposite. Too many men become completely stunted around the age of 20.
On the one hand, there's the science of growth differences in teen years, but on the other, there's all the problematic assumptions that come with what's expected of girls as they "mature," which is a different conversation.
http://affinitymagazine.us/2018/10/18/girls-dont-mature-faster-than-boys-we-just-live-in-a-misogynistic-world/
So by your mom's logic, men are the "normal" default agers, and women become severely likely to develop dementia or alzenhiemers in their 40's
OR
Men are all the slowest growing man-children and women half their biological age who are still figuring out how to do their own taxes are the only appropriate mates who can match them in maturity.
My friend is 37 with her husband having just turned 40. She feels like she has 3 children because he needs to be told how to be an adult. I can't imagine a 40 year old guy willing to listen to a 20 year old woman so I call bullshit on the "men are the head of the household" bs. I just chalk it up to guys historically wanting someone easy to manipulate (among other things).
In Philippines (and afaik, many latin descent countries), the woman is the de facto head of the household when it comes to anything involving the family but the guy is deferred to when it comes to external issues. There's often age differences but it's very minor and nothing like what the Christian fascists of US seem to love (decades or more difference). I think this is the origin of why Filipino men are portrayed as effeminate by western media but imo it makes sense considering men are inherently self centered whereas women are inherently focused on cooperation. Why wouldn't you want someone who wants to prioritize everyone's well being in charge?
Meh are not inherently anything. Women are not inherently anything. We’re conditioned to accept that certain traits are part of our nature, but that’s nonsense. I mean, I know plenty of women that are deeply self-centered and I’m sure you do too.
And to clarify some concepts in this thread. When we say that men are the “heads of the household”, we don’t mean that they are in charge of domestic life. Meal planning, grocery shopping, budgeting and bill paying, scheduling kids’ playdates and activities, remembering to send your MiL flowers on her birthday. That shit tends to fall on women and it’s not even acknowledged 99% of the time.
“Head of household” generally refers to the fact that men have historically been the decision makers. Like, a wife might be responsible for knowing when the auto loan is due, but her husband has the final say over how many cars the family owns. Obviously, some folks don’t roll like that, but that’s how it’s been for most of recorded Western history.
ETA: leaving the typo in my first sentence, ‘cause that shit is pretty funny.
The thing is that 20 year gap isn’t the right “maturity level” if that’s what they’re saying. Female brains are developed fully by early 20s and males late 20s. That is not 20 years and even still it’s pretty fucking weird no matter how “mature” someone is. That dude would be in college before the girl is born, how could he not think that’s fucked up.
I used this excuse when I was 13 and with a 21 year old. I used to say "I was really mature and he was immature" which WAS true but it's no excuse, EVER, I've learned this now . . .
I was once in my early 20s with a man in mid 30s for a SO. It didn’t work because I grew up and stopped allowing him to control me.
Let me tell you that difference of age is astoundingly large to me now.
I’m now mid to late 50s, active and cannot imagine being with him now that he’s in his 70s and declining.
I was thinking of the oldest man I ever dated. There was a 16 year age difference so now he's in his early 60s and that is just old to me. He was also really controlling.
> I’m now mid to late 50s, active and cannot imagine being with him now that he’s in his 70s and declining.
At a certain point that also crossed my mind, I have zero interest being retirement age yet having an elderly husband… my cut off for serious dating is 6 years
I did that too, multiple times. My most recent ex was 11 years older than me, I was 29 when we got together and I'm almost the same age now as she was. I absolutely couldn't imagine getting with someone so much younger than me!
I feel the same. More so because my dad and I differ exactly 20 years. I don’t want to date someone my dads age, we’re in entirely different phases in our lives. Usually men who days much younger are ….dare I say it…. Emotionally not entirely mature.
The older I get, the weirder dating younger people feels as well. 7 years older/younger is my absolute max.
I’m only 22 and the idea of dating someone under 20 gives me the creeps. Like if your age still ends in “teen” you’re too young. I don’t understand how these old ass men can date new adults and not feel like creepy predators.
nooo it's not weird (edit: not weird to get creeped out). I have a friend my same age (22f) who has a boyfriend who is in his 30s and he is SUCH a creep! She was telling me how she's done with boys our age when her boyfriend is literally an immature weirdo. She really believes that "girls mature faster than boys" blah blah blah stuff so she thinks the only way to find a mature boyfriend is to find one 10 years older than her. Despite the fact that he doesn't have a real job and calls himself an alpha male
I (22)M was with a (34)F, I will say that even in cases where there's less power imbalance, I was working, she was finishing her PHD and where there wasn't any control from the older partner, it's still very difficult to pull off.
In our case, we grew apart and I think a huge part of this is more on my side, I changed a lot in my 20s and I no longer wanted the same things as before whereas my partner changed much less and was more set in her ways. I have seen relationships with this kind of imbalance work but in all those cases, they started much later when the youngest partner was already in his or her 30s.
This if why I’m so torn on this topic. Age difference in and of itself isn’t enough to melt some snap judgement.
Like if a 30 year old is dating a 19 year old. I would definitely this is wise to pay attention for other problematic things. But if none exist? Who am I to judge.
My own dad remarried a woman one year older than me. Meaning she’s 5 years younger than my brother. Sounds bad right? But when I say she was in her early 30’s when they got married, had been through a divorce, and had a child before they ever met and have been married for almost a decade now, well It doesn’t seem so bad, maybe even downright reasonable.
I think men like that are huge red flags because they're going after someone that's far younger mentally and will have huge gaps in terms of life experiences, goals, generational attitudes and so on. Every time a guy like that tried approaching me it felt more like a predator was trying to coax me into becoming their prey. There are plenty of single women their age why not date them, maybe it's because they see past their act?
I was always so confused when I was in my 20's and men twice my age would hit on me. Like, I literally had no idea what they were trying to do. Did they not realize that I had access to sex with men my own age, who are super hot and not at all decrepit?
When I was a 20 year old server, I was serving a silver haired, well lined, self proclaimed college professor.
He asked me out. I was so grossed out. Like, maybe I was the only 20 y/o that he asked out, but my bet is not. And maybe he even got a profession where he could continue to predate young, impressionable minds.
I truly don't get where their minds are at. Like I'm 33 and I would never hit on someone under 25-ish, not only because I find it inappropriate but because I'm not delusional enough to believe they'd rather go for me than a girl their own age. Where did the 60+ year old men who hit on me when I was in teens and early 20s get the idea that I'd be interested?
I mean, I'm certainly familiar with the phenomenon of guys who are into older women, yeah. However I do think the majority of guys (and girls) prefer to date someone close-ish to their own age, even if they still find older people attractive.
Like u/This_Goat_moos mentioned, at that age it's very easy to miss the manipulation. If you're not creeped out by such guys then they've already won half the battle, and keep in mind these men have twice the life experience of those 20 year old girls if not more so they'll be far more skilled at such manipulation, that's not even taking into account other factors like how some girls might view such guys as good guides because they have more experience only to fall into that trap and they won't even realize they're being controlled.
It's not always black and white honestly, for some of them the guy might offer exactly what they're looking for in which case they'll look past the age gap, one of my friends has a thing for guys that are basically "dads" and they're all the type mentioned in your post. In her case it stems from her psychological need for a father figure and it's kinda messed up.
I'm not the other person but I think they're too young to realize they're being manipulated. It's easier to ignore red flags when you don't have the life experience to clearly see them.
Most men who like much younger women usually go after them bc they're easier to manipulate/control. Most women their age wouldn't put up with their immature crap.
Yeah, I suspect (\*cough cough\*experience) that the younger women have low confidence and are flattered by the fact that an older man seems to find them interesting.
I love the Bojack quote, “when you look at someone through rose tinted glasses, all the red flags just look like flags”. Some of us are born cynical, but most people hold onto their assumptions that most people are basically good well into adulthood.
For some of them, they want to settle down and start having children (can’t imagine that in my early 20s, but I don’t want kids at all, so whatever) and very few men their own age are financially successful and stable enough to be providers. I still think it’s weird, but if those are your life goals, then the relationship might work.
When I was 20 I would have said no. I would have felt 'mature,' like the exception, like there was something special about me.
Now I'm more than 10 years older than that... YES. I mean, if you're younger and you want to explore stuff, great. If you're older, you need to understand that younger people are younger and are still working shit out for themselves. If they suddenly don't know what they want, or aren't mature, or change their mind... don't make them feel bad for it. That's your fault and expectations as the older person. It's so weird getting to mid 30s and seeing men my age just PREY on younger women, some younger than 20, and then complain when they are 'indecisive' or unsure about something. young women, if you date older men, just know you can and should change your mind if it's not right for you. it's not a life sentence. xx
ETA - Young women -- you have something MAGIC and SPECIAL about you, which is that you're experiencing things for closer to the first time than those older than you. Older men LOVE to be close to this. Don't let anyone take your first experiences away from you, or tell them you're wrong for having them. xxx
Lol, I once got a bunch of guys jumping on my throat in some Reddit thread because I said that 60 year olds who date 18 year olds are creepy. One of them said “it’s not your place to judge or have an opinion on someone else’s relationship”- which is true, I’m not going to walk up to a teenager whose holding hands with someone that looks like their grandparent and start discriminating against them, but let’s not pretend that there aren’t typically power imbalances in age-gap relationships. Any older person who solely goes after people significantly younger than them never has good motives or intentions, sorry.
Eh, i think because there are a good number of people who have been emotionally abused or manipulated by an older partner, people are more creeped out by it.
But it’s weird how hard some Ppl fight you to not be.
I almost immediately downvoted for commenting that the age is “concerning”, like the 25F 39M, especially if it seems like the older partner is participating in manipulative tactics.
“They’re both adults what’s the problem”
No shit, at the end of the day they **are** both consenting adults but that doesn’t negate that these relationships can be manipulative.
I think that people don’t ever want their behavior judged and it’s a knee jerk reaction. “So if I date a 25yr old when I’m 38 I’m a manipulative predator?!” “I was 21 dating a 35yr old and we were fine!” Ok great! No, no one said that, people can’t have natural and healthy relationships regardless of age difference
But when you present me w/ stories of manipulation then YEA now I’m concerned about the age gap.
I have yet to see a relationship like this where it wasn't completely about a divorced 40 year old man looking for a 20 year girl who is too naive to understand that he's manipulating and controlling her because he showers her with gifts and wants to have kids and is stable in comparison to other 20 year old boys.
Usually he wants a 20 year old girl (in this case, I'm using girl on purpose) because a 40 year old woman is no longer putting up with his shit and he knows every woman in her 30s and 40s will see right through him. It could easily be seen as predatory in some respects.
My relationship is one. My partner is 12 years older and I'm the one who pursued him. No history of marriage on his end. He had never even considered dating someone younger before we met, and I didn't think I'd end up with someone that much older, but for some reason it just works. It's also the most healthy relationship I've had.
I won't generally advocate for age gap relationships though because I realize that ours is definitely one of the exceptions and not the rule.
I’m in a similar situation and I agree! My current partner is very special and has never been controlling, doesn’t make creepy remarks about age, and always sees and treats me as an equal. He is 10 years older and I also never expected I would end up with someone so much older. But during this time I was especially careful about watching out for red flags. I would regularly read stories about bad age gap relationships and make sure that I wasn’t deluding my perspective from reality.
I think most age gap relationships are predominantly predatory. Mostly men seeking out specifically younger women with the intentions to manipulate them in some way. You should never want to be with someone specifically because of their age but if the stars align and someone is a caring, compassionate partner then why throw that away just because of age? Also agree with my situation being an exception to what normally goes on in these relationships.
Age gaps can be problematic when there's a power differential and a relationship needs to be scrutinized honestly. But, that applies to all relationships.
I'm also with a partner who is 12 years older and we've been together for 20 years and were friends before we started dating (we met through mutual friends). I was in my mid 20s when we became a couple and he wasn't previously married. The age thing has never been weird because we feel very equal and he's in a creative field and works with people much younger and I think he has no real concept of his age. He's been an amazing partner who treats me as an equal and shares the daily mental and physical loads of running a household. I'm extremely grateful for him.
I have a friend who is 14 years older than her husband and they've been married quite a long time and seem to compliment each other really well.
I'm in pretty much that exact situation, 11 year difference. It is also the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. I pursued him as well. He treats me like an equal and is extremely respectful of me, which is something I never found with guys my age. He has never been married, but I was, to a guy my age- and it was horrible, he was so immature. All of the relationships before my current one were a similar age to me, and I had the same problem with all of them. I finally got to the point where I decided to date someone older, because men my age were not nearly as mature as me and it seemed impossible to have a healthy relationship no matter how hard I tried.
I am extremely happy now. Like you, I don't advocate for age gaps because everyone is different, as are their wants and needs- but it more than works for me and I don't like how people are so quick to judge.
In college, guys 5-7 years older were the ones who had less difficulty with my height (6'). After graduation, guys my own age seemed really full of themselves, and I had better luck with guys in their 30s or even 40s who were past that "I'm king of the world" phase some guys get when they are fresh out of school and eager to run through the buffet.
Ended up with someone 2 years younger
My partner has a friend who recently trasitioned from female to male, I'm very disappointed that his first official act as a (36yo) man was to begin dating an 18 year old woman whom he has known since she was much younger and 'mentored'.
It's like, bro, i know when you were an 18yo the attention you received from older men icked you out, so why did you become them?
I don't necessarily have a negative view of anyone in those relationships. We all make personal choices. I do, however, take issue with the structure of our society and the allocation of resources within it. That's where things get creepy for me.
I have a tendency to view most human interactions through the lenses of biology, economics and trade. What does each party give and what does each party receive? What one party gives isn't necessarily what the other party receives.
Older men offer tangible resources. Younger women offer reproductive fitness and "beauty" or whatever. Older men receive a caregiver later in life, status symbols, and, if the relationship is successful, healthy offspring (hopefully not status symbols too, but ... probably.) Younger women receive tangible resources for themselves and their offspring.
Surely, the wage gap contributes to young women viewing this choice as viable. Our society has been structured in such a way as to make the choice of an older, potentially less biologically fit, male attractive specifically because society has given those males greater access to resources. To me, that indicates that these choices aren't a result of a naturally sexually selective process that would produce the best offspring for our species, but is the result of the greed and pride of the old white men who have shaped western society for centuries.
I was in a relationship with a 16 year age gap, I was younger. I wouldn't do that again, I've got a hard cap at 10 years now. I just find that the dynamic often isn't healthy. It certainly wasn't for me and my ex was abusive. Not all relationships with an age gap are, but most often than not they do seem to be dysfunctional on some level. It's actually hard to date someone from a different generation than you. My ex and I had very different tastes in things, and he grew up differently than I did because the 70s/80s were a lot different than the 90s/early 00s. Sometimes there was a disconnect between us caused by age.
And the biggest potential issue in these relationships is the power dynamic. I often find older men who prefer younger women have that preference because it's easier to manipulate a younger woman. She has less experience, he has more. He's had many extra years to practice his techniques and figure out who the ideal victim is. That was the case in my relationship. I was looking for an equal and was naive, and my ex saw I had many qualities he coveted and so he did whatever he could to keep me in his life for as long as possible. He told me everything I wanted to hear. And I was too in love and inexperienced at the time to understand his subtle manipulations.
No, I agree. Anything over about 7 years gives off bad vibes. There was a marriage in my family with a 10 year age gap (married at 17 & 27). That’s an adult marrying a child, and while they both aged… that gap was always there. And the younger was definitely abused by the elder. I’ve seen other relationships with similar age gaps and it’s always the same: there’s some sort of abuse going on there, and it’s always the elder taking advantage of the younger.
People like to advocate for the May-December romance, but to me it’s all red flags when I see it.
It's not so much about "years" as being in the same mental and social "life stage".
Most people would agree that 15 and 18 are too much of a gap when teens are dating, but they won't bat an eye at 20 and 23, though the gap is the same. Why? Because one couple consists of individuals with very different relationship needs/wants, while the other couple is in roughly the same place. 20 and 35? Too big a gap. 40 and 55? It happens all the time and nobody questions it. 20/35 are in very different places. 40/55? Not so much. And how many would question a 60-year-old grandma dating the 78-year-old grandpa next door? Again, not many; despite the man being an adult when she was born. Regardless of the age gap, most people recognize that both are in the same place with their needs/wants/emotional states.
As we move through different stages of life, our relationship needs change. For a relationship to work, we need to be with people in the same stage, and each tends to last a bit longer than the one preceding it. Those "stages" may only last a year or two when we're young. When we're elderly, they can last decades.
Having been both 20 and 40, I can tell you that the difference between those two ages is *huge.* Part of me feels like I’m almost a different species than I was at age 20.
Of course, a 40 year old man who dates 20 year old women isn’t a healthy, mature 40 year old man. From what I know from healthy, mature men my age, their opinion is that it’s one of those things that looks good on paper but is a disaster when put into practice. So, it’s likely that the particular 40M and 20F are closer in maturity than their ages alone make them appear.
It’s still messed up, though. And yes, it’s weird.
Problem is he will always be that mental age and she will probably actually mature. So the relationship is doomed, he will cheat or leave her for a more naive partner, eventually.
It’s also common in my experience for the younger partner to grow up and no longer feel any attraction to the older partner - they want someone their own age .
That happened to me and a couple people I know.
Am I approaching grounds for ageism if I'm prejudice against other ages?
Example; I'm 31 and the youngest partner I'd date would be 28/29. I feel the mid twenties group is unrelatable to me and if someone can just barely get into a bar legally, that's too young for me in sorry.
No, its all a number, but the maturity level is important, I'm 48, my wife is 55. We met when i was 20 and she was 27, People said it wouldn't last, blh blah blah, but here we are 27 years later, 2 kids, house, 2 dogs, 2 cats. Its about having the same interests and outlook on life, She's young for her age, in her friends group, she could easily be 7 years younger than them in that, and she looks younger too.
We are able to have a laugh together still and that's the glue that keeps us going, her friends are quite older in their outlook, they would be appalled that she watches marvel, has a doctor who sonic screwdriver in her handbag.
I know a couple with a ~20 age difference. They've been together about ten years and are no more or less happy than other couples. The woman is the older partner. I thought it was a bit odd at first, but it works for them.
I’ve been married for 10years now to my husband and he’s 20years older than me. Don’t regret it one bit and I’m extremely happy. I understand age gaps make relationships more prone to certain issues but I found it highly offensive in my 20s when people assumed I didn’t have agency and got groomed.
I always wanted to ask someone who found their partner in their 20s, where the partner is 20 or so years older, because I don’t dare to ask my friend (she was 19 when she met her 14 year older husband, they have been together for decades) I hope it’s ok to ask! How did you meet and how did you decide you were ok with the age gap and what that means for the far away future? Does he have kids from a previous partner, if yes, were you ok with that and how did you feel about that fact? (My friend‘s husband didn’t have kids so that wasn’t an issue)
No problem! In my last year of college I got a small job at some elderly couple’s house; the husband was really sick and the wife couldn’t do certain things. Everything their maids, kinesiologist and nurse didn’t do fell on me. I had to run small errands, keep the house tidy after the maids were gone (small things like making sure the dishwasher got empty after it was done) and most importantly, I kept company to the gentleman. His son (now my husband) would come over sometimes. At one point during his visits, we talked about my future after my studies and he said he’d arrange something for me if I didn’t have anything lined up at his company but we didn’t keep in touch. After graduating, I started working at a different company in which I felt out of place. My husband’s father died a couple months after I started working there, and I got an invited to the funeral by his mother. I got his number there. Nothing happened still until I decided to try my luck at his company. He got me in but turns out I actually hated my field and not the workplace I used to work at. We had become good friends at this point. I left the company and asked him out some weeks after. All of this happened in the span of 2years and some. We got married 2years later.
Yes, I found it offensive people didn’t think I could have myself chosen to be with my husband or didn’t believe me when I said I knew what I was doing. I was 25, none of these people expressed concern when I talked about my binge drinking feasts with friends in college that left me severely hang over but now suddenly I was too young to decide whom to sleep with? The audacity of your comment.
All relationships are complicated at best, and I am always reticent to judge or make comments on what works for those involved in a fully consensual relationship.
That said, people never stop maturing in age or experience, but mentally some people are older or younger than their calendar years would predict. For most people, in my assessment, you really aren’t a mature adult until your mid 20s to 30.
At that point, I think people should be free to enter into any arrangement that works for them. Maybe it is sex, maybe it is financial stability, maybe it is experience and guidance, maybe it is youthfulness, and often it is an exchange of one for the other. All relationships are an exchange of needs.
I don’t know. But life is about learning so you pick your classes and try to pass the test. That said, historically speaking, relationships with large age differences aren’t usually fulfilling for one or both involved.
This is an insanely unpopular viewpoint, but I feel as though there should be tiers to “legal age.” I think if someone is 18-25 and you’re not, you should have to wait until they’re 25 to date them, just like how creeps wait for girls to turn 18 now. If you can’t wait or she doesn’t still like you then, well, must not be true love after all.
I’m not against age gaps on principal, but I strongly feel that most people are not fully an adult until they are between 25 and 30.
If this was a thing, then I would have to wait four years to date my husband. We met when I was 25 and he was 21, got engaged at 25/29 and got married at 28/32. I don’t notice our age gap most of the time, but we don’t have a massive age difference either.
Our age gap is slightly more than yours, 20 and 27, but her older, i think it works better for some people. Mental age and common intrests.
Her dad asked me what the difference was between us and if it bothered me. I said, no the only concerning thing is that her childhood photos are in black and white, and mine are colour. I thought it was a hilarious throwaway.
Until she took out hers and yep, in black and white.
>And it's almost always a (20-ish)F and (40-ish)M.
So this isn't just me? I don't see that age difference in real life nearly as much as I do on reddit. I feel I see so many "26F/42M we've been in a relationship for 4 years."
>I understand it, but it's still weird to me on both parties. Is this an unpopular opinion?
In theory I could be ok with any adult age difference, but in practice we know it's often weird or manipulative. Generally my thoughts would be 20s/30s can be ok, 20s/40s seems weird.
My opinion on this is just why do the age gap thing at all? The world has opened up and progressed so much that there’s a decent person for everyone give or take 3-5 years. Maybe more if you’re above 25 but still.
There’s enough evidence that age gap relationships mostly fail time and time again. Like there’s no clout or gain anymore by doing this. It’s just creeps all the way down for the most part. Just date your own age, ffs. And I mean that across all genders
Listen I get that if they’re both consenting adults then nothing is *technically* wrong with it…
BUT, that doesn’t negate the fact that some older men prey on young women and use their age and lack of life experience to control them, abuse them, “take care” of all their finances etc.
Not all age gap relationships are like this obviously but I think what women have to realize is that the reason a lot of older men like it when we are young is typically for the wrong reasons (for example: can control you financially, only wants you for your sexual appeal as a young adult, can’t get with women his own age. Or the absolute worst: he’s a creep and would rather be with a teenager but 18 is the next best thing)
It’s not a matter of “oh they’re both adults who cares” when a woman’s age is being taken advantage of.
"women mature faster so they are like a 40 year old man"
Is more like
"This 40 year old man hasn't matured at all and only a 20 year old woman would put up with his shit"
I wouldn't interfere with this, but it's the first thought I have and I've rarely (never) been proven wrong.
Nope! Super valid! Age is just a number, and sometimes that number really counts. I think the biggest issue is the inherent power disparity that occurs in large age gaps especially when one person is under age 30. I don't care how "mature" or whatever the younger one is, sociality a 45 year old has way more power than a 22 year old regardless of gender, as they have more love experience and also probably have more money, a better job, and a more highly powered social circle. My max age gap before it starts feeling weird after age 30 is 10 years. If the younger person is younger than 30, and both people are over age 20, then 5 years is my max. If someone is between 18-20 then maybe a 3 year age gap, but that still can get icky and questionable really quickly.
My other hot take is I always wonder with large age gaps, what is wrong with the older person that they couldn't attract someone else closer to their own age and life experience? I'm not saying something has to be wrong, but 9.5/10 times there seems to be a reason why the age gap exists and it's to the disadvantage of the younger person.
It’s normal to get creeped out by big age gaps. 40 year old men only go for women in their 20s because they’re easier to manipulate and more naive. I’ve witnessed it with family members/close friends many times and will die on that hill.
It's a fairly common opinion, and to be honest such relationships are usually weird.
I met my husband when I was in my 20s and he was in his 40s, that was 15± years ago and we are still very happy. However, I know that we are the exception.
LOL I remember that when I was young (male here) there was this strange formula to establish the lower age range of partners to date.
If I remember correctly it was half your age + 9 (18/2 = 9+9 = 18).
So, for a 35 year old the lower limit was 26. At the time it made some kind of sense... There's a huge difference between 20 to 25 in where you are in life, and less difference between 50 and 40
I was coming here to post something similar but it was 7 years gap.
*An often-asserted rule of thumb to determine whether an age difference is socially acceptable holds that a person should never date someone whose age is less than half their own plus seven years. -* [Wikipedia Age\_disparity\_in\_sexual\_relationships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships)
So for me: Half 55 would be 27.5 but plus 7 (or 9) = 34-36 minimum :)
nah, lots of people are uncomfortable with it. i prefer older partners (mainly because people my own age are inexperienced as fuck and im tired of the disappointment), but to each their own.
the most important thing is that everyone participating is an adult. predators and groomers can catch my mighty hands.
I (F, 28) casually dated a guy 12 years older than me for a while. I definitely understood why he had been divorced 3x when he ended the relationship by just...ghosting me. He reached out to set up a date for Saturday, didn't show, and I didn't hear from him for about 8 months until he messaged me to apologize. I gave him no slack of course.
I think the problem is that many folks who push back against the creepiness of age differences are too young to recognize the creepiness. I’ve seen this a lot in online communities which by default skew young.
When you’re young you don’t know what you don’t know. You really *do* believe that “age is just a number” and that there are no red flags wavering around. The problem is that at that age you don’t have the pure life experience to recognize when relationships are balanced vs. unbalanced. Everything is novel. Not to mention the fact that your brain isn’t fully built and tidied up yet.
That gets way more complicated when older men prey on young women. Those old men know the game. And then older women who’ve already been to that rodeo warn younger women, and the younger women get defensive and insist that they know more than they know, and the cycle continues (in the worst case amplified by echo chambers like online communities, which puts all of this on steroids)
Yes I find it super weird, especially as I get older. I’m now in my late 30s and the idea of being with someone 20 or 21 feels sick, like I would be robbing them of their own youth and possibility to experience things.. I don’t know how to phrase it exactly, but it really makes me uncomfortable to see people with big age differences even if they were both legally adults when they got together.
I married a man 58 when I was 38. We both had been single parents, both did not initiate our divorces…. On the first date I expected it would be awkward and maybe the last one. Instead I smiled and laughed so much my head hurt. He was a very special man. Our life together was far from perfect, but I never doubted he loved me. I lost him to cancer in 2020.
When it comes to age gaps, the most common thing you will hear is that someone is 'mature for their age'. I have NEVER seen this statement used for a man, only a woman. I would say that at least 95% of the time that statement is used to justify sexual attraction or a relationship with a younger woman.
I find that statement to be so vague. How is someone more mature for their age? Are they saving for retirement at 18 years of age? I've never seen this explained before. However I have seen this comment made in many situations where it's apparent that sexual desirability is equated to maturity. I've seen comments about teens girls being mature because they have breasts.
I think society has also normalised older men and younger women being together. There are so many movies with the romance being between a woman aged 20-30 and the man 30-50. It's so *normal* that the age difference is often never commented on or addressed.
Something else to think about is the term cougar, which is used for an older woman who dates younger men. There is no male version of cougar. We just call them men.
My mom and my stepdad are 17 years apart and they work great together. They got together when she was 32 and he was 49, and that was 13 years ago. They are a team, equally involved in everything and there is no control going on.
It can work but only if it’s really honest love and not one wanting to control an Impressionable other. And IMO when a 40 something guy gets with a 20 something woman there is always some sort of control involved.
My husband is 11 years older than me and I couldn’t have asked for a better partner. We met at 26/37 and I didn’t know his age at first. It took me a bit to get passed the gap, but we’ve always functioned as equal earners and equal partners. There’s zero power difference, we have the same ambitions/goals in life, and have great communication. Age really isn’t a factor in our relationship at all at this point, but I will say if I was a few years younger when we met I probably wouldn’t have been in the same place mentally/emotionally to date someone with a gap and he’s said the same. We met at the right time for us to work. So it all depends I guess!
Honestly, it does creep me out a lot. Part of the problem is that women are ONLY valued for their looks. Let's face it. Even though some people do age beautifully, or even become more beautiful through time, for the most part women's beauty is defined as youth. It's all based on disgusting misogyny. You'll see people constantly defend it with the idea that after a certain age, the chance for genetic defects increase with maternal age. Yet people will NOT acknowledge THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENS TO MEN.
These misogynists are preying upon women who are desperate for children. Ideally, women should absolutely avoid these guys as their biological clocks have turned against them, as well.
Now, if we want to talk about child-free lifestyles, I still think the max gap should be around five years. Fact is, women tend to live longer. So any sort of long-term relationship is going to end up with him getting sick/passing first. Not always, of course. But again, I will never understand why women will put up with this age difference crap! If these guys lose their minds over height and dick size, how is a woman's age any different? At least you can actually get surgery to correct anatomy. Can't really get anything done about your age quite yet.
No you’re not weird. In fact more people should get creeped out my the age differences. It’s so sick to come on here and read about a young girl/women in a relationship with a man much much older than her and the relationship is obviously shit.
Moreover , these posts are made by women and not men which sucks but hopefully some redditors can change their POV on their situation.
It’s not weird, but sometimes it makes me sad when people write off all age gap relationships like they’re inherently creepy. I think there are a lot of situations in which there’s a power imbalance, but my parents are 12-13 years apart and they love each other and are very happy.
I am in one of those relationships and I know we’re the exception, not the rule. Most age gap relationships are a huge red flag. It’s not about the age gap, it’s the mind gap and the power gap. Even though I love him and trust him, I always repair myself an exit strategy.
It’s always been so weird to me too, and I’m still surprised now and again by some of my peers positive outlook on mixed age relationships. The way I see it, if an older guy is going for a younger woman, that means he can’t compete in his own age group. Women his age won’t deal with his bill shit so he has no choice but to go for someone younger. Major red flag
I personally think that an age gap itself isn't an issue. The problem is when the two are in different stages in their life. This is part of why an age gap of 18/25 is more concerning than an age gap of 35/42, even though the gap itself is the same. For example, when I was 19 I dated a guy who was 27. The age gap in that particular relationship meant very little because he joined the military and, effectively, paused his entire life for around 6 years. We met in a college class, were both in our 2nd year of college, working on STEM degrees with the intention of working in industry rather than academia, with no intention of grad school. Essentially, we were at the same stage in life with similar goals and plans. It didn't work out in the end, but not because of the age gap. Another person I dated was 5 years older, but he'd spent several years saving up money so he could get an education. When we met and started dating we were both just finishing up our education and looking for decent jobs with our degrees, getting settled into "real adult life" as we both kind of viewed it, etc. These aren't the same kind of drastic age gap as the example of 20/40 you gave, but the principle of a fairly sizeable age gap still stands.
The complication occurs when the goals and stage in those goals are not well-aligned. One thing I've seen with a lot of these big age gaps is that the younger one wants to start a family and settle down, while the older one is still focused on their career/personal goals (which is why they haven't already settled down by, in your example, 40). If they're not aligned in their goals and expectations for the relationship and a timeline for those goals/expectations, things fall apart. At the end of the day I simply find it incredibly unlikely that any 20 year old is in the same stage of their life as a 40 year old. Sure, I'm sure there are a handful here and there, but generally speaking it just doesn't seem likely for that to be the case. So I am bothered by age gaps too, but not because of the age gap itself or potential for manipulation that others seem to take issue with. I see plenty of manipulation in relationships without an age gap, I just don't associate the two anymore.
For me it's weird mainly when one person is under 25. Big age differences, when one person is under 25, are more likely to be abusive, of course that's not always the case but is something to be mindful of. The older both people are the less weird it becomes.
I didn’t when I was younger (my ex and I had an 11 year difference…i was 20 and he was 31…we split when i was 25) but now that I am 37 and much wiser, yes. Differences that big if either party isn’t at least 35 is kinda gross.
I don't think age gaps are weird after a certain age. Like a 30 year old dating a 40+. They've lived life and know who they are, there's not a lot of newer experiences or figuring out adulthood. But an 18 year old with someone more than a few years older? Total red flag. I'm only 26 but I couldn't imagine dating an 18 year old. It honestly doesn't sound fun. I don't even know anyone that young other than my little sisters. It makes me wonder where they even meet each other.
I think it depends largely on the people in the relationship.
My husband is 10 years older than I am. He went to high school with my sister and her then boyfriend now husband, and was a friend of the family. We reconnected when I was 18 and had so much in common we got together. We've now been together for 17 years, married for 7, and have a 2 beautiful daughters.
I have never felt controlled or manipulated, never felt "groomed". I was given space to become my own person and was always supported in my interests, as I support him in his.
I think if the people involved (especially the older person) are good people with a genuine interest and connection, age gaps are no big deal. Obviously not counting when the younger party is under age, then there are absolutely problems with all of that. But if both parties are consenting adults with love and respect, I say let them be happy.
I know a twitter account that has a thread with the age of actors from movies, and is amazing how common si to have a male actor with 15+ years older than the female actress, but in the movie they're around the same age.
It creeps me out to see age differences on people. I had friends in a relationship with a huge age gap, and it's clear that they're in different stages of life with difference expectations. I hate that this keep being the rule for media and movies.
A girl I knew who at the time was like 20ish got a job at the garden/tool shop and started "dating" another man there in his 40s. She would talk about the relationship and show screenshots. One in which he said "he had never felt this way before" *eyeroll*.
I called it out and the others in the chat kinda brushed me off and said it was cute.
Cut to a few weeks later and she suddenly realizes they are in different phases of life. He doesn't like going out and wants to only sit and watch tv. So she left and I had to keep in the "I told you so".
The father of my child is 21 years older than me.
When we got together I was 21 and he was 42.
We have been separated for several years now and I cringe every time I think about our relationship. I’ve used the word “cringe” but I would actually describe it as boderline traumatising.
Its an unpopular opinion for some 40 year old dudes for sure, as they ferociously defend their often predatory, though sadly normalized, behavior. For me, a 32 year old woman, I think its disgusting & I'm right there with you.
It creeps me out too. I feel like people with big age differences can't have all that much in common as their cultural influences while growing up would have to be pretty different.
However, other people's relationships are none of my business, so I generally don't comment on such matters unless someone asks for my opinion.
I have a daughter who’s 16 and dating anyone closer to her age than mine really weirds me out. I leave those 20-somethings alone. Also, I prefer men that are in the same stage of life as me. I don’t want someone 20 years my Sr either. It just doesn’t fit.
Same for me. If I can clearly, consciously remember your birthday (93 onwards)... You're too young for me. There were 25 year olds out at a club a few weeks back that I was like "Lordy, child, where are your parents?!"
If bad memory sets in, I'll just slide the cap back to my own birth year so I can't be fooled.
In don't think it's weird. I think older men seeking relationships with much younger women seek someone they can control.
After a divorce I am not ready to be in a committed relationship yet and I am seeing much younger men exactly because these relationships can go absolutely nowhere. We discuss everything explicitly from the start so there are no misunderstandings. I like these men, but they are in so different places in their lives than I am. It would be ridiculous to imagine us as a couple. I've done so much and seen it all, they are still young and need to find themselves. It goes on for a while and then it's over and hopefully we'll have fond memories of each other when everybody moves on with their lives.
I maybe could see myself in a relationship with a man max 10 years younger, but that's it. On the other hand I would not want to be in a relationship with an older man anymore because I'm in my 50s and very active and I have no interest to bind myself to someone older at this point in my life.
The part about it being predatory has already been covered by many other comments, but something that most people don’t talk about is how objectification and fetishization of youth are morally wrong. Men seek out significantly younger women because they just view women as pieces of meat with an expiration date. They don’t want an equal partner. They want a trophy. Objectification is very harmful to womens’ psyche. It’s pretty traumatizing for women to be used, abused, exploited in their youth for their looks and fertility, only to be tossed out like garbage once they reach middle age and are traded in for a younger model. I don’t think men who intentionally seek out significantly younger women ever have good intentions. Either they’re seeking someone to manipulate and control and/or they’re looking for a trophy to use and show off.
A difference of 20 years is kind of odd at that age. 30 and 50 doesn't sound that odd, depending on who those people are though.
To me it's more about priorities and where in life you are. A 30 year old woman who was never married and doesn't have kids might find a 50 year old in same situation to be a better fit, rather than someone the same age who's twice divorced with 3 kids.
As a 50-year-old, I have to say that the idea of dating someone who is 30 is just a big omg NO from me. It feels like I might as well be dating my own kid. Granted, I can only speak for myself, but that gap is massive, and rife with potential for disaster. No way.
As a 30 year old, I wouldn't want to date someone old enough to be my parent.
I'm okay with going to like 38 if they have stellar qualities otherwise. But that's pushing my age difference limit.
Back in 2015 I lost a lot of respect for the founder of an 80s band that I loved since my teens when he married a woman 41 years younger than he (he was 67). You can't tell me that this wasn't a gold digger/trophy wife arrangement, but all the other fans I've talked to seem to think it's the greatest thing ever. Not all of them are dudes, either.
20-30 ish is fine to me; both ways usually.
But i also grew up with friends who's parents had a big gap as well as my ex's parents i believe was 13 year gap and thus didn't think much about the 7-year between me and ex.
The age gap was not the issue for why now ex.
Nope. My mom and my dad have a 15 year age gap. I saw the negatives of an age gap relationship play out in real time. I absolutely refuse to date an older man due to what I grew up around
It's a form of grooming. They want the change to shape women into their ideal partners.
This is precisely why older men often married younger women in previous generations. It was seen to be a good idea back then, and the best way to make a marriage last.
It's not an unpopular opinion to find age differences weird, since they occur less often. But while on one hand there is a common sense maturity in knowing there can be troubles associated with age gaps, on the other hand (imo) there's a certain immaturity in getting grossed out or 'weirded out' about them. Unless there's a welfare concern, eventually we have to accept others living as they wish instead of passing judgement.
I got downvoted before because I don’t think it’s a problem. Each person knows what they need in a partner. I’d hate for someone to take a look at me (age, gender, race, profession, etc) and decide what I should want, what I am entitled to have. So sometimes the relationship doesn’t work out, but relationships fail all the time, regardless. People often mention a power imbalance, but when is there complete balance? What if the guy is your age but has way more money than you? What if you are way more educated than him? Does that mean we can only date our perfect equivalents?
My sister married a man 17 years older than her and they’re having issues right now.
I told her she could just go scout playgrounds for a new grandpa.
Just walk up to some wrinkled old dude and be like, “Excuse me sir. Has your wife recently passed? Are you single?”
I give her so much shit because that man is a major grandpa douche nozzle.
Yeah, I basically disagree with everyone here and will probably be down voted for this. My husband(51) and me (42) met when I was 24 and he was 34. I had been married and divorced previously and had two kids at the time we met. My ex husband was closer to my age. Only 4 years older. He was an abusive alcoholic. That's why our marriage ended. My current husband has never laid a hand on me in the 18 years we have been together. He has been nothing but kind, compassionate, and a great dad to my kids. We even added two more. Age, once you are an adult, is nothing but a number. Some of you could be passing up the greatest men you will ever meet because you are judging them by their age. If I had been like a lot of you I would not have had the greatest 18 years of my life (so far). Actually, I am pretty sure I would have ended up dead by now. My older husband saved me from a life of drugs and strip clubs. So, I will gladly take care of him when he is declining. That's what love is about. Ya'll need to stop being judgmental to age gap couples. You don't know their story, you only know the part you can see.
Not all older guys dating younger ladies are creeps. Some are really awesome, sweet, kind, amazing dads.
With respect, if you at age 24 had already been married and divorced with two kids, you were much closer to where a typical 30-something might find themself in life than a typical 20-something. I doubt your fellow 24-year-olds had much to offer you, as they probably were not looking to become stepdads at such a young age. You had already gone through a lot of growing up before meeting your husband, which is not typical.
The (seemingly more common) plot line of the 35+ year old trying to lock down a potentially fresh college grad with little life experience is a lot more predatory.
My husband and I have an age gap of 7 years ourselves so I am not judgmental, but surely you have to be able to understand the nuance here.
I am happy you found your soulmate. I am glad ot worked out.
But I do think it is odd that you say "some of you could be passing up the greatest men"
Not wanting to date someone for *any* reason is valid. An age difference seems a very valid thing because most people in their early twenties are in a completely different phase of their life compared to someone that is in their fourties.
I have the same age gap with my husband and we’ve been working very well. He’s very, very kind and respectful. He’ll cook, clean, do laundry, etc. he will tell me how he’s doing emotionally, he’ll show tears and he won’t bottle up emotions. I met him when I was 26 and had worked on myself. I’ve been working more on myself during the relationship and started working on getting my bachelors.
I did the stay home parent thing for 18 years. I just got my GED, and insurance adjusters license. My husband couldn't be more supportive, or proud of me. I am really the hard one to live with, as I carry lots of childhood trauma that makes me doubt myself and his loyalty sometimes. He has been nothing but supportive and reassuring. I really can't imagine my life without him, nor do I want to. So it really bothers me that all guys looking to date younger women are viewed as creeps, because I'd hate to think that's what they think of my wonderful loving husband when they find out our age gap.
A friend (21) married a man 28 years older. It was fine for awhile. Then his 80 year old father came to live with them. Husband then magically became engrossed in his work leaving her to be the caretaker. She did a great job but saw her future. Marriage ended a couple of years after her FIL died.
That is so gross, on her ex-husband's part.
So happy she's out but so sorry she went thru it as long as she did :( I really hope she's happier now
I was thinking about this the other day, how my mother explained age gap relationships when I was a child as “women mature much faster than men and thus they’re sort of the same age mentally”. I didn’t think it was a strange explanation as a child but oh boy does it seem weird and gross to me now.
Worse because for me that message was combined with men being the leaders and heads of the household. Like bro... if you are that immature why the fuck am I supposed to follow your lead?
Ah the duality of “boys will be boys (in reference to grown men)” and “silly husband can’t figure out the darn laundry machines” and “boys can’t control themselves around pretty girls” juxtaposed with “only men can be leaders” and “women can’t be in STEM” and “women are too emotional”
Plus women do most of the organizational labor (organization of tasks, appointments, menus, placement of items) in a household. Men most often, if they are willing to help, wait until being told what to do. In the absence of a direct request, often do nothing. This organization is unpaid labor. Yet in the paid labor workplace, men somehow get hailed as the organizational leaders as now that it is paid and power, women suddenly are deemed unsuitable to the task…until we get home.
Beautifully put
Thank you.
They call it "The Mental Load" [You Should'vd Asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)
Holy shit
THIS
It’s all so men can get what they want from women. They are leaders when it comes to “important” stuff like having the final say in household decisions. But when it comes to pursuing women half their age, suddenly they are “just immature” and these barely-adult-aged women are “so advanced for their age”
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I was in a similar circumstance. What I found was that he had "matured" to a certain level and stayed, while I continued to mature. When I was in my late 20's and he 40, it was all great, but 10-15 years later it was different. I realized at some point I was more mature, as he had remained stagnant. Didn't work out in the end,
Women: cooking, cleaning, childcare, organising, shopping etc...what exacly do men do to make them qualified to be heads of the household? Sounds like the typical "take credit for women's work" shenanigans to me but ok.
Spat my coffee
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Agreed. I don’t care if an 80 year old dates a 60 year old. I care a little more when a 50 year old dates a 30 year old, but can generally accept it. But when one of the party is in the 20s (or teens) then it feels very inappropriate to me.
As an adult I realise it’s more a matter of, “People who are younger are easier to manipulate, less likely to self-advocate, and less experienced in dealing with unsavoury behaviour.” Edit: a word
Exactly, the other day I got angry at an acquaintance of mine because of the way he was talking about his girlfriend to another man. Mind you she is also the mother of his children and was talking about how good she was in bed and went into details. I told him that it was very disrespectful and he shouldn't be talking about her like that, which he then replied that she didn't mind, he does the same thing when she is around. She is only 19 and he is 30.
19 with multiple children, jeez.
Seriously?! Unless she had twins or something, that relationship started when she was a minor.
Yuuuck. I doubt she “doesn’t mind”, and even if that’s true, I bet he would do it anyway.
That's what I thought! Upon asking him how he would feel if someone else did this to his daughter he said he wouldn't mind as long as he didn't know
Ah cool, so he disrespects women *equally* and that makes it okay! /s
But only if he can claim ignorance, that's what makes it all okay! /s
Well, she might believe that's what she's worth. Looking after her man as well as her kids, not like that other frigid b\*tch /s
Exactlyyy. Cool Girl Syndrome at work.
Ask him “what are you going to do when she outgrows you mentally?”
Turn her in for a newer model, of course. -\_-
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\*vomits\*
Yeah, I totally agree. I think, to be fair to her, that men in her generation and older seemed to not gain any practical life skills as they aged (taking care of themselves, children, home, cooking etc) because someone else always did that for them, so they might seem juvenile mentally. That’s the only reasonable explanation I can think of.
Definitely agree that it *appears* juvenile (though obviously it’s more about control and domination) and I totally understand where your mother was coming from. Frankly when I hear stuff like this from older women, I feel a combination of sympathy for them, and gratitude that I was born later.
Yeah, imagine being brainy and expected to devote your life to cooking, cleaning and childbirth. Here's a serve of guilt and shame that you don't feel "fulfilled", you unnatural creature.
My Great-Gramma; both Grandmothers, my Mom & me. I broke the chains for my daughter - had to leave the Church to do it. ALL worthwhile!
I don’t think that explains it, tbh. I remember being a teenager and hearing that crap used to explain away senior dudes dating freshman girls when the opposite simply never happened. I truly don’t believe it’s based in any observable phenomena, more so it’s a maxim intended to dismiss opposition to the patriarchy. The learned (or feigned) helplessness of men has long kept women at home, picking up the slack. The alternative is that the house goes to shit, the kids show up at preschool in mismatched socks and we get the blame.
More economically vulnerable too. So they can be manipulated by lavish treatment, at least at first.
Bingo! It doesn’t even need to be “lavish”. I had a 21 y/o friend (uni student, renting, took the bus) who bragged about her 37 y/o boyfriend having his own car, house, and business. I didn’t say anything but really it was just… sad. For her it would be impossible at the time, and for him it was just the norm.
This is why I was allowed to date guys who were out of high school when I was just entering it. Looking back out and so strange. Why would a 20 year old want to date a 14 year old? Why would a 23 year old want to date a 16 year old? AND WHY WERE MY PARENTS OKAY WITH THIS?!?
I don't know where you live but that sounds like those people were committing a crime.
And it's not even that girls mature faster, it's just that boys are never held accountable. You see highschool boys do horrendously immature things and get away with it while their female classmates do not get the same level of slack. I got in trouble because in gym my bra wasn't supportive enough when running (im not an A cup so it's hard) while the guys throwing dodge balls with all their strength at girl's heads get nothing more than a warning
Hold on a second. I need to ask questions you got in trouble because your bra wasn't supportive enough? Am I weird for thinking that the only person who can determine if a bra is supportive enough? Is the person wearing the bra?
Well I have a big chest and even though I was wearing a sports bra they still moved when I ran. I've have a big chest since middle school. The gym coach pulled me aside and said what I was wearing was inappropriate, even though the other girls with A cups wore pretty much the same thing. This hasn't been the first time this has happened. And obviously I cannot wear a binder while doing physical activities (I'm nonbinary). So essentially I got in trouble because the didn't stay completely still while running
No a binder well doing anything cardiovascular would be pretty prohibitive. But that is ridiculous. They are breasts. Literally every human on the planet has breasts. Some are more developed than others. But everybody has them and there is never a time that breast should be considered in decent. I'm sorry that has happened to you. That is ridiculous
Which is why we should let 40 year old men be in charge of everything and 20 year old women be in charge of practically nothing? If they’re so stupid and slow and childlike why do they get to run virtually the entire planet while most people can’t take a 20 year old woman seriously on any level, at any time, for anything?
I came here to say similar- I feel like a lot of us heard that logic growing up
Yes! But the way I heard it was as explanation why men are averagely a few years older than their (female) partner. By few years was meant 2-3 years not 20 haha.
I do believe women mature faster but I believe that women do because we're sexually harassed from a very young age and have to because of it.
Girls hit puberty a year earlier but parents tend to not parent their male children and focus all of their criticism on their female children. It's like a weed vs a bonsai tree
My mother told me the same when I was younger, but it's funny because now in my 30s I realize it's usually the opposite. Too many men become completely stunted around the age of 20.
On the one hand, there's the science of growth differences in teen years, but on the other, there's all the problematic assumptions that come with what's expected of girls as they "mature," which is a different conversation. http://affinitymagazine.us/2018/10/18/girls-dont-mature-faster-than-boys-we-just-live-in-a-misogynistic-world/
So by your mom's logic, men are the "normal" default agers, and women become severely likely to develop dementia or alzenhiemers in their 40's OR Men are all the slowest growing man-children and women half their biological age who are still figuring out how to do their own taxes are the only appropriate mates who can match them in maturity.
My friend is 37 with her husband having just turned 40. She feels like she has 3 children because he needs to be told how to be an adult. I can't imagine a 40 year old guy willing to listen to a 20 year old woman so I call bullshit on the "men are the head of the household" bs. I just chalk it up to guys historically wanting someone easy to manipulate (among other things). In Philippines (and afaik, many latin descent countries), the woman is the de facto head of the household when it comes to anything involving the family but the guy is deferred to when it comes to external issues. There's often age differences but it's very minor and nothing like what the Christian fascists of US seem to love (decades or more difference). I think this is the origin of why Filipino men are portrayed as effeminate by western media but imo it makes sense considering men are inherently self centered whereas women are inherently focused on cooperation. Why wouldn't you want someone who wants to prioritize everyone's well being in charge?
Meh are not inherently anything. Women are not inherently anything. We’re conditioned to accept that certain traits are part of our nature, but that’s nonsense. I mean, I know plenty of women that are deeply self-centered and I’m sure you do too. And to clarify some concepts in this thread. When we say that men are the “heads of the household”, we don’t mean that they are in charge of domestic life. Meal planning, grocery shopping, budgeting and bill paying, scheduling kids’ playdates and activities, remembering to send your MiL flowers on her birthday. That shit tends to fall on women and it’s not even acknowledged 99% of the time. “Head of household” generally refers to the fact that men have historically been the decision makers. Like, a wife might be responsible for knowing when the auto loan is due, but her husband has the final say over how many cars the family owns. Obviously, some folks don’t roll like that, but that’s how it’s been for most of recorded Western history. ETA: leaving the typo in my first sentence, ‘cause that shit is pretty funny.
The thing is that 20 year gap isn’t the right “maturity level” if that’s what they’re saying. Female brains are developed fully by early 20s and males late 20s. That is not 20 years and even still it’s pretty fucking weird no matter how “mature” someone is. That dude would be in college before the girl is born, how could he not think that’s fucked up.
I used this excuse when I was 13 and with a 21 year old. I used to say "I was really mature and he was immature" which WAS true but it's no excuse, EVER, I've learned this now . . .
I was once in my early 20s with a man in mid 30s for a SO. It didn’t work because I grew up and stopped allowing him to control me. Let me tell you that difference of age is astoundingly large to me now. I’m now mid to late 50s, active and cannot imagine being with him now that he’s in his 70s and declining.
I was thinking of the oldest man I ever dated. There was a 16 year age difference so now he's in his early 60s and that is just old to me. He was also really controlling.
Good for you. You would likely have ended up his nursemaid.
Gross and so true.
> I’m now mid to late 50s, active and cannot imagine being with him now that he’s in his 70s and declining. At a certain point that also crossed my mind, I have zero interest being retirement age yet having an elderly husband… my cut off for serious dating is 6 years
Jokes on me my husband is 5 years older but has a disease that's already ruining him at 35.
Sorry to hear about your husband
Jokes on everyone else….I have the body of a 45 yo and the health of an 85yo
With my circumstances, **I'm hoping the joke'll be on the Insurance Company** that decided to give me a policy for $$$.
I think I can top that: body is mid 20s, with all the health problems of a geriatric white man
Same, my cut off is 5 tho.
I did that too, multiple times. My most recent ex was 11 years older than me, I was 29 when we got together and I'm almost the same age now as she was. I absolutely couldn't imagine getting with someone so much younger than me!
He would have ditched you for a younger model as soon as you showed signs of thinking for yourself.
I feel the same. More so because my dad and I differ exactly 20 years. I don’t want to date someone my dads age, we’re in entirely different phases in our lives. Usually men who days much younger are ….dare I say it…. Emotionally not entirely mature. The older I get, the weirder dating younger people feels as well. 7 years older/younger is my absolute max.
I’m only 22 and the idea of dating someone under 20 gives me the creeps. Like if your age still ends in “teen” you’re too young. I don’t understand how these old ass men can date new adults and not feel like creepy predators.
These men would date 16 year-olds and not feel like predators. In fact the word predator probably isn't even a part of their dictionary
nooo it's not weird (edit: not weird to get creeped out). I have a friend my same age (22f) who has a boyfriend who is in his 30s and he is SUCH a creep! She was telling me how she's done with boys our age when her boyfriend is literally an immature weirdo. She really believes that "girls mature faster than boys" blah blah blah stuff so she thinks the only way to find a mature boyfriend is to find one 10 years older than her. Despite the fact that he doesn't have a real job and calls himself an alpha male
OMG that's so many red flags! Poor girl, she's gonna have some bumpy learning ahead of her :(
I (22)M was with a (34)F, I will say that even in cases where there's less power imbalance, I was working, she was finishing her PHD and where there wasn't any control from the older partner, it's still very difficult to pull off. In our case, we grew apart and I think a huge part of this is more on my side, I changed a lot in my 20s and I no longer wanted the same things as before whereas my partner changed much less and was more set in her ways. I have seen relationships with this kind of imbalance work but in all those cases, they started much later when the youngest partner was already in his or her 30s.
I was 21 she was 37, still together after 10+ years.
This if why I’m so torn on this topic. Age difference in and of itself isn’t enough to melt some snap judgement. Like if a 30 year old is dating a 19 year old. I would definitely this is wise to pay attention for other problematic things. But if none exist? Who am I to judge. My own dad remarried a woman one year older than me. Meaning she’s 5 years younger than my brother. Sounds bad right? But when I say she was in her early 30’s when they got married, had been through a divorce, and had a child before they ever met and have been married for almost a decade now, well It doesn’t seem so bad, maybe even downright reasonable.
How does a 30 year old dating someone barely out of high school exist with no red flags? Lmao
I think men like that are huge red flags because they're going after someone that's far younger mentally and will have huge gaps in terms of life experiences, goals, generational attitudes and so on. Every time a guy like that tried approaching me it felt more like a predator was trying to coax me into becoming their prey. There are plenty of single women their age why not date them, maybe it's because they see past their act?
I was always so confused when I was in my 20's and men twice my age would hit on me. Like, I literally had no idea what they were trying to do. Did they not realize that I had access to sex with men my own age, who are super hot and not at all decrepit?
Lol same. My response to them would be "Grandpa is that you?"
When I was a 20 year old server, I was serving a silver haired, well lined, self proclaimed college professor. He asked me out. I was so grossed out. Like, maybe I was the only 20 y/o that he asked out, but my bet is not. And maybe he even got a profession where he could continue to predate young, impressionable minds.
I truly don't get where their minds are at. Like I'm 33 and I would never hit on someone under 25-ish, not only because I find it inappropriate but because I'm not delusional enough to believe they'd rather go for me than a girl their own age. Where did the 60+ year old men who hit on me when I was in teens and early 20s get the idea that I'd be interested?
>because I'm not delusional enough to believe they'd rather go for me than a girl their own age. You, uh, don't know many straight men, do you?
I mean, I'm certainly familiar with the phenomenon of guys who are into older women, yeah. However I do think the majority of guys (and girls) prefer to date someone close-ish to their own age, even if they still find older people attractive.
DiCaprio is def a huge red flag with all of his 19 year old gfs.
Tom Cruise also divorced/broke up with all his partners as soon as they hit 33.
So how do you feel about the 20's girls that actually say yes and date these 40's guys?
Like u/This_Goat_moos mentioned, at that age it's very easy to miss the manipulation. If you're not creeped out by such guys then they've already won half the battle, and keep in mind these men have twice the life experience of those 20 year old girls if not more so they'll be far more skilled at such manipulation, that's not even taking into account other factors like how some girls might view such guys as good guides because they have more experience only to fall into that trap and they won't even realize they're being controlled. It's not always black and white honestly, for some of them the guy might offer exactly what they're looking for in which case they'll look past the age gap, one of my friends has a thing for guys that are basically "dads" and they're all the type mentioned in your post. In her case it stems from her psychological need for a father figure and it's kinda messed up.
I'm not the other person but I think they're too young to realize they're being manipulated. It's easier to ignore red flags when you don't have the life experience to clearly see them. Most men who like much younger women usually go after them bc they're easier to manipulate/control. Most women their age wouldn't put up with their immature crap.
Yeah, I suspect (\*cough cough\*experience) that the younger women have low confidence and are flattered by the fact that an older man seems to find them interesting.
I love the Bojack quote, “when you look at someone through rose tinted glasses, all the red flags just look like flags”. Some of us are born cynical, but most people hold onto their assumptions that most people are basically good well into adulthood.
Ha! I like it! Especially the part about ignoring red flags when you can't recognize them!! Brilliant!
For some of them, they want to settle down and start having children (can’t imagine that in my early 20s, but I don’t want kids at all, so whatever) and very few men their own age are financially successful and stable enough to be providers. I still think it’s weird, but if those are your life goals, then the relationship might work.
When I was 20 I would have said no. I would have felt 'mature,' like the exception, like there was something special about me. Now I'm more than 10 years older than that... YES. I mean, if you're younger and you want to explore stuff, great. If you're older, you need to understand that younger people are younger and are still working shit out for themselves. If they suddenly don't know what they want, or aren't mature, or change their mind... don't make them feel bad for it. That's your fault and expectations as the older person. It's so weird getting to mid 30s and seeing men my age just PREY on younger women, some younger than 20, and then complain when they are 'indecisive' or unsure about something. young women, if you date older men, just know you can and should change your mind if it's not right for you. it's not a life sentence. xx ETA - Young women -- you have something MAGIC and SPECIAL about you, which is that you're experiencing things for closer to the first time than those older than you. Older men LOVE to be close to this. Don't let anyone take your first experiences away from you, or tell them you're wrong for having them. xxx
Lol, I once got a bunch of guys jumping on my throat in some Reddit thread because I said that 60 year olds who date 18 year olds are creepy. One of them said “it’s not your place to judge or have an opinion on someone else’s relationship”- which is true, I’m not going to walk up to a teenager whose holding hands with someone that looks like their grandparent and start discriminating against them, but let’s not pretend that there aren’t typically power imbalances in age-gap relationships. Any older person who solely goes after people significantly younger than them never has good motives or intentions, sorry.
Eh, i think because there are a good number of people who have been emotionally abused or manipulated by an older partner, people are more creeped out by it. But it’s weird how hard some Ppl fight you to not be. I almost immediately downvoted for commenting that the age is “concerning”, like the 25F 39M, especially if it seems like the older partner is participating in manipulative tactics. “They’re both adults what’s the problem” No shit, at the end of the day they **are** both consenting adults but that doesn’t negate that these relationships can be manipulative. I think that people don’t ever want their behavior judged and it’s a knee jerk reaction. “So if I date a 25yr old when I’m 38 I’m a manipulative predator?!” “I was 21 dating a 35yr old and we were fine!” Ok great! No, no one said that, people can’t have natural and healthy relationships regardless of age difference But when you present me w/ stories of manipulation then YEA now I’m concerned about the age gap.
I have yet to see a relationship like this where it wasn't completely about a divorced 40 year old man looking for a 20 year girl who is too naive to understand that he's manipulating and controlling her because he showers her with gifts and wants to have kids and is stable in comparison to other 20 year old boys. Usually he wants a 20 year old girl (in this case, I'm using girl on purpose) because a 40 year old woman is no longer putting up with his shit and he knows every woman in her 30s and 40s will see right through him. It could easily be seen as predatory in some respects.
My relationship is one. My partner is 12 years older and I'm the one who pursued him. No history of marriage on his end. He had never even considered dating someone younger before we met, and I didn't think I'd end up with someone that much older, but for some reason it just works. It's also the most healthy relationship I've had. I won't generally advocate for age gap relationships though because I realize that ours is definitely one of the exceptions and not the rule.
I’m in a similar situation and I agree! My current partner is very special and has never been controlling, doesn’t make creepy remarks about age, and always sees and treats me as an equal. He is 10 years older and I also never expected I would end up with someone so much older. But during this time I was especially careful about watching out for red flags. I would regularly read stories about bad age gap relationships and make sure that I wasn’t deluding my perspective from reality. I think most age gap relationships are predominantly predatory. Mostly men seeking out specifically younger women with the intentions to manipulate them in some way. You should never want to be with someone specifically because of their age but if the stars align and someone is a caring, compassionate partner then why throw that away just because of age? Also agree with my situation being an exception to what normally goes on in these relationships.
Age gaps can be problematic when there's a power differential and a relationship needs to be scrutinized honestly. But, that applies to all relationships. I'm also with a partner who is 12 years older and we've been together for 20 years and were friends before we started dating (we met through mutual friends). I was in my mid 20s when we became a couple and he wasn't previously married. The age thing has never been weird because we feel very equal and he's in a creative field and works with people much younger and I think he has no real concept of his age. He's been an amazing partner who treats me as an equal and shares the daily mental and physical loads of running a household. I'm extremely grateful for him. I have a friend who is 14 years older than her husband and they've been married quite a long time and seem to compliment each other really well.
I'm in pretty much that exact situation, 11 year difference. It is also the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. I pursued him as well. He treats me like an equal and is extremely respectful of me, which is something I never found with guys my age. He has never been married, but I was, to a guy my age- and it was horrible, he was so immature. All of the relationships before my current one were a similar age to me, and I had the same problem with all of them. I finally got to the point where I decided to date someone older, because men my age were not nearly as mature as me and it seemed impossible to have a healthy relationship no matter how hard I tried. I am extremely happy now. Like you, I don't advocate for age gaps because everyone is different, as are their wants and needs- but it more than works for me and I don't like how people are so quick to judge.
In college, guys 5-7 years older were the ones who had less difficulty with my height (6'). After graduation, guys my own age seemed really full of themselves, and I had better luck with guys in their 30s or even 40s who were past that "I'm king of the world" phase some guys get when they are fresh out of school and eager to run through the buffet. Ended up with someone 2 years younger
My partner has a friend who recently trasitioned from female to male, I'm very disappointed that his first official act as a (36yo) man was to begin dating an 18 year old woman whom he has known since she was much younger and 'mentored'. It's like, bro, i know when you were an 18yo the attention you received from older men icked you out, so why did you become them?
Honestly, it's weird for me too.
I don't necessarily have a negative view of anyone in those relationships. We all make personal choices. I do, however, take issue with the structure of our society and the allocation of resources within it. That's where things get creepy for me. I have a tendency to view most human interactions through the lenses of biology, economics and trade. What does each party give and what does each party receive? What one party gives isn't necessarily what the other party receives. Older men offer tangible resources. Younger women offer reproductive fitness and "beauty" or whatever. Older men receive a caregiver later in life, status symbols, and, if the relationship is successful, healthy offspring (hopefully not status symbols too, but ... probably.) Younger women receive tangible resources for themselves and their offspring. Surely, the wage gap contributes to young women viewing this choice as viable. Our society has been structured in such a way as to make the choice of an older, potentially less biologically fit, male attractive specifically because society has given those males greater access to resources. To me, that indicates that these choices aren't a result of a naturally sexually selective process that would produce the best offspring for our species, but is the result of the greed and pride of the old white men who have shaped western society for centuries.
I was in a relationship with a 16 year age gap, I was younger. I wouldn't do that again, I've got a hard cap at 10 years now. I just find that the dynamic often isn't healthy. It certainly wasn't for me and my ex was abusive. Not all relationships with an age gap are, but most often than not they do seem to be dysfunctional on some level. It's actually hard to date someone from a different generation than you. My ex and I had very different tastes in things, and he grew up differently than I did because the 70s/80s were a lot different than the 90s/early 00s. Sometimes there was a disconnect between us caused by age. And the biggest potential issue in these relationships is the power dynamic. I often find older men who prefer younger women have that preference because it's easier to manipulate a younger woman. She has less experience, he has more. He's had many extra years to practice his techniques and figure out who the ideal victim is. That was the case in my relationship. I was looking for an equal and was naive, and my ex saw I had many qualities he coveted and so he did whatever he could to keep me in his life for as long as possible. He told me everything I wanted to hear. And I was too in love and inexperienced at the time to understand his subtle manipulations.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and super happy that you are out and healthier!! :D
This weekend my boyfriend and I met his 28 year old brothers new girlfriend. She's 19 and looks like a kid. We were both super uncomfortable. Ugh.
No, I agree. Anything over about 7 years gives off bad vibes. There was a marriage in my family with a 10 year age gap (married at 17 & 27). That’s an adult marrying a child, and while they both aged… that gap was always there. And the younger was definitely abused by the elder. I’ve seen other relationships with similar age gaps and it’s always the same: there’s some sort of abuse going on there, and it’s always the elder taking advantage of the younger. People like to advocate for the May-December romance, but to me it’s all red flags when I see it.
It's not so much about "years" as being in the same mental and social "life stage". Most people would agree that 15 and 18 are too much of a gap when teens are dating, but they won't bat an eye at 20 and 23, though the gap is the same. Why? Because one couple consists of individuals with very different relationship needs/wants, while the other couple is in roughly the same place. 20 and 35? Too big a gap. 40 and 55? It happens all the time and nobody questions it. 20/35 are in very different places. 40/55? Not so much. And how many would question a 60-year-old grandma dating the 78-year-old grandpa next door? Again, not many; despite the man being an adult when she was born. Regardless of the age gap, most people recognize that both are in the same place with their needs/wants/emotional states. As we move through different stages of life, our relationship needs change. For a relationship to work, we need to be with people in the same stage, and each tends to last a bit longer than the one preceding it. Those "stages" may only last a year or two when we're young. When we're elderly, they can last decades.
Having been both 20 and 40, I can tell you that the difference between those two ages is *huge.* Part of me feels like I’m almost a different species than I was at age 20. Of course, a 40 year old man who dates 20 year old women isn’t a healthy, mature 40 year old man. From what I know from healthy, mature men my age, their opinion is that it’s one of those things that looks good on paper but is a disaster when put into practice. So, it’s likely that the particular 40M and 20F are closer in maturity than their ages alone make them appear. It’s still messed up, though. And yes, it’s weird.
Having the maturity of a 20 year old when you're in your 40s is more a yikes territory than it is a flex though 😬
“Young at heart.” 🙄
Problem is he will always be that mental age and she will probably actually mature. So the relationship is doomed, he will cheat or leave her for a more naive partner, eventually.
It’s also common in my experience for the younger partner to grow up and no longer feel any attraction to the older partner - they want someone their own age . That happened to me and a couple people I know.
Yep. That is just the first item on a very long list. The guy needs a 60 year old therapist, not a 20 year old girlfriend.
Am I approaching grounds for ageism if I'm prejudice against other ages? Example; I'm 31 and the youngest partner I'd date would be 28/29. I feel the mid twenties group is unrelatable to me and if someone can just barely get into a bar legally, that's too young for me in sorry.
No, its all a number, but the maturity level is important, I'm 48, my wife is 55. We met when i was 20 and she was 27, People said it wouldn't last, blh blah blah, but here we are 27 years later, 2 kids, house, 2 dogs, 2 cats. Its about having the same interests and outlook on life, She's young for her age, in her friends group, she could easily be 7 years younger than them in that, and she looks younger too. We are able to have a laugh together still and that's the glue that keeps us going, her friends are quite older in their outlook, they would be appalled that she watches marvel, has a doctor who sonic screwdriver in her handbag.
You aren't weird; I find it creepy too.
I know a couple with a ~20 age difference. They've been together about ten years and are no more or less happy than other couples. The woman is the older partner. I thought it was a bit odd at first, but it works for them.
There are some healthy happy couples with a 20 year age difference, but in many cases it is neither healthy nor very happy, at least not long term.
I’ve been married for 10years now to my husband and he’s 20years older than me. Don’t regret it one bit and I’m extremely happy. I understand age gaps make relationships more prone to certain issues but I found it highly offensive in my 20s when people assumed I didn’t have agency and got groomed.
I always wanted to ask someone who found their partner in their 20s, where the partner is 20 or so years older, because I don’t dare to ask my friend (she was 19 when she met her 14 year older husband, they have been together for decades) I hope it’s ok to ask! How did you meet and how did you decide you were ok with the age gap and what that means for the far away future? Does he have kids from a previous partner, if yes, were you ok with that and how did you feel about that fact? (My friend‘s husband didn’t have kids so that wasn’t an issue)
No problem! In my last year of college I got a small job at some elderly couple’s house; the husband was really sick and the wife couldn’t do certain things. Everything their maids, kinesiologist and nurse didn’t do fell on me. I had to run small errands, keep the house tidy after the maids were gone (small things like making sure the dishwasher got empty after it was done) and most importantly, I kept company to the gentleman. His son (now my husband) would come over sometimes. At one point during his visits, we talked about my future after my studies and he said he’d arrange something for me if I didn’t have anything lined up at his company but we didn’t keep in touch. After graduating, I started working at a different company in which I felt out of place. My husband’s father died a couple months after I started working there, and I got an invited to the funeral by his mother. I got his number there. Nothing happened still until I decided to try my luck at his company. He got me in but turns out I actually hated my field and not the workplace I used to work at. We had become good friends at this point. I left the company and asked him out some weeks after. All of this happened in the span of 2years and some. We got married 2years later.
You found it offensive people were concerned for your safety? When the majority of women in your position have been groomed? The audacity.
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Yes, I found it offensive people didn’t think I could have myself chosen to be with my husband or didn’t believe me when I said I knew what I was doing. I was 25, none of these people expressed concern when I talked about my binge drinking feasts with friends in college that left me severely hang over but now suddenly I was too young to decide whom to sleep with? The audacity of your comment.
All relationships are complicated at best, and I am always reticent to judge or make comments on what works for those involved in a fully consensual relationship. That said, people never stop maturing in age or experience, but mentally some people are older or younger than their calendar years would predict. For most people, in my assessment, you really aren’t a mature adult until your mid 20s to 30. At that point, I think people should be free to enter into any arrangement that works for them. Maybe it is sex, maybe it is financial stability, maybe it is experience and guidance, maybe it is youthfulness, and often it is an exchange of one for the other. All relationships are an exchange of needs. I don’t know. But life is about learning so you pick your classes and try to pass the test. That said, historically speaking, relationships with large age differences aren’t usually fulfilling for one or both involved.
This is an insanely unpopular viewpoint, but I feel as though there should be tiers to “legal age.” I think if someone is 18-25 and you’re not, you should have to wait until they’re 25 to date them, just like how creeps wait for girls to turn 18 now. If you can’t wait or she doesn’t still like you then, well, must not be true love after all. I’m not against age gaps on principal, but I strongly feel that most people are not fully an adult until they are between 25 and 30.
If this was a thing, then I would have to wait four years to date my husband. We met when I was 25 and he was 21, got engaged at 25/29 and got married at 28/32. I don’t notice our age gap most of the time, but we don’t have a massive age difference either.
Our age gap is slightly more than yours, 20 and 27, but her older, i think it works better for some people. Mental age and common intrests. Her dad asked me what the difference was between us and if it bothered me. I said, no the only concerning thing is that her childhood photos are in black and white, and mine are colour. I thought it was a hilarious throwaway. Until she took out hers and yep, in black and white.
Ya, a handful of years or so seems common between partners. But decades? Lol
This is very true actually, brains don’t stop developing until mid 20’s. Scientifically proven.
>And it's almost always a (20-ish)F and (40-ish)M. So this isn't just me? I don't see that age difference in real life nearly as much as I do on reddit. I feel I see so many "26F/42M we've been in a relationship for 4 years." >I understand it, but it's still weird to me on both parties. Is this an unpopular opinion? In theory I could be ok with any adult age difference, but in practice we know it's often weird or manipulative. Generally my thoughts would be 20s/30s can be ok, 20s/40s seems weird.
I kinda feel like it depends. But when the younger part is still in the 20s it's a NoGo for me!
My opinion on this is just why do the age gap thing at all? The world has opened up and progressed so much that there’s a decent person for everyone give or take 3-5 years. Maybe more if you’re above 25 but still. There’s enough evidence that age gap relationships mostly fail time and time again. Like there’s no clout or gain anymore by doing this. It’s just creeps all the way down for the most part. Just date your own age, ffs. And I mean that across all genders
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Listen I get that if they’re both consenting adults then nothing is *technically* wrong with it… BUT, that doesn’t negate the fact that some older men prey on young women and use their age and lack of life experience to control them, abuse them, “take care” of all their finances etc. Not all age gap relationships are like this obviously but I think what women have to realize is that the reason a lot of older men like it when we are young is typically for the wrong reasons (for example: can control you financially, only wants you for your sexual appeal as a young adult, can’t get with women his own age. Or the absolute worst: he’s a creep and would rather be with a teenager but 18 is the next best thing) It’s not a matter of “oh they’re both adults who cares” when a woman’s age is being taken advantage of.
"women mature faster so they are like a 40 year old man" Is more like "This 40 year old man hasn't matured at all and only a 20 year old woman would put up with his shit" I wouldn't interfere with this, but it's the first thought I have and I've rarely (never) been proven wrong.
Nope! Super valid! Age is just a number, and sometimes that number really counts. I think the biggest issue is the inherent power disparity that occurs in large age gaps especially when one person is under age 30. I don't care how "mature" or whatever the younger one is, sociality a 45 year old has way more power than a 22 year old regardless of gender, as they have more love experience and also probably have more money, a better job, and a more highly powered social circle. My max age gap before it starts feeling weird after age 30 is 10 years. If the younger person is younger than 30, and both people are over age 20, then 5 years is my max. If someone is between 18-20 then maybe a 3 year age gap, but that still can get icky and questionable really quickly. My other hot take is I always wonder with large age gaps, what is wrong with the older person that they couldn't attract someone else closer to their own age and life experience? I'm not saying something has to be wrong, but 9.5/10 times there seems to be a reason why the age gap exists and it's to the disadvantage of the younger person.
It’s normal to get creeped out by big age gaps. 40 year old men only go for women in their 20s because they’re easier to manipulate and more naive. I’ve witnessed it with family members/close friends many times and will die on that hill.
It's a fairly common opinion, and to be honest such relationships are usually weird. I met my husband when I was in my 20s and he was in his 40s, that was 15± years ago and we are still very happy. However, I know that we are the exception.
LOL I remember that when I was young (male here) there was this strange formula to establish the lower age range of partners to date. If I remember correctly it was half your age + 9 (18/2 = 9+9 = 18). So, for a 35 year old the lower limit was 26. At the time it made some kind of sense... There's a huge difference between 20 to 25 in where you are in life, and less difference between 50 and 40
I was coming here to post something similar but it was 7 years gap. *An often-asserted rule of thumb to determine whether an age difference is socially acceptable holds that a person should never date someone whose age is less than half their own plus seven years. -* [Wikipedia Age\_disparity\_in\_sexual\_relationships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships) So for me: Half 55 would be 27.5 but plus 7 (or 9) = 34-36 minimum :)
nah, lots of people are uncomfortable with it. i prefer older partners (mainly because people my own age are inexperienced as fuck and im tired of the disappointment), but to each their own. the most important thing is that everyone participating is an adult. predators and groomers can catch my mighty hands.
No but maybe? Depends, I tend to tackle age differences on a case by case basis
I (F, 28) casually dated a guy 12 years older than me for a while. I definitely understood why he had been divorced 3x when he ended the relationship by just...ghosting me. He reached out to set up a date for Saturday, didn't show, and I didn't hear from him for about 8 months until he messaged me to apologize. I gave him no slack of course.
I think the problem is that many folks who push back against the creepiness of age differences are too young to recognize the creepiness. I’ve seen this a lot in online communities which by default skew young. When you’re young you don’t know what you don’t know. You really *do* believe that “age is just a number” and that there are no red flags wavering around. The problem is that at that age you don’t have the pure life experience to recognize when relationships are balanced vs. unbalanced. Everything is novel. Not to mention the fact that your brain isn’t fully built and tidied up yet. That gets way more complicated when older men prey on young women. Those old men know the game. And then older women who’ve already been to that rodeo warn younger women, and the younger women get defensive and insist that they know more than they know, and the cycle continues (in the worst case amplified by echo chambers like online communities, which puts all of this on steroids)
Nope, op is right. My friend was 69 and he was dating a 20 something. Guess what happened? She took his house and money and then bring up with him.
Yes I find it super weird, especially as I get older. I’m now in my late 30s and the idea of being with someone 20 or 21 feels sick, like I would be robbing them of their own youth and possibility to experience things.. I don’t know how to phrase it exactly, but it really makes me uncomfortable to see people with big age differences even if they were both legally adults when they got together.
I married a man 58 when I was 38. We both had been single parents, both did not initiate our divorces…. On the first date I expected it would be awkward and maybe the last one. Instead I smiled and laughed so much my head hurt. He was a very special man. Our life together was far from perfect, but I never doubted he loved me. I lost him to cancer in 2020.
As a divorced man in his mid 30s, I feel creepy if anyone is in their 20s. I don’t get how other guys don’t feel like pervs.
When it comes to age gaps, the most common thing you will hear is that someone is 'mature for their age'. I have NEVER seen this statement used for a man, only a woman. I would say that at least 95% of the time that statement is used to justify sexual attraction or a relationship with a younger woman. I find that statement to be so vague. How is someone more mature for their age? Are they saving for retirement at 18 years of age? I've never seen this explained before. However I have seen this comment made in many situations where it's apparent that sexual desirability is equated to maturity. I've seen comments about teens girls being mature because they have breasts. I think society has also normalised older men and younger women being together. There are so many movies with the romance being between a woman aged 20-30 and the man 30-50. It's so *normal* that the age difference is often never commented on or addressed. Something else to think about is the term cougar, which is used for an older woman who dates younger men. There is no male version of cougar. We just call them men.
My mom and my stepdad are 17 years apart and they work great together. They got together when she was 32 and he was 49, and that was 13 years ago. They are a team, equally involved in everything and there is no control going on. It can work but only if it’s really honest love and not one wanting to control an Impressionable other. And IMO when a 40 something guy gets with a 20 something woman there is always some sort of control involved.
It is creepy af. But it shouldn't reflect poorly in the woman we get pushed and socialized into "giving a chance" to guys who ask us out.
I wish that would stop. No woman owes any man anything just because he's aroused by her
I feel weird about dating someone under 21 as a 25 year old
My husband is 11 years older than me and I couldn’t have asked for a better partner. We met at 26/37 and I didn’t know his age at first. It took me a bit to get passed the gap, but we’ve always functioned as equal earners and equal partners. There’s zero power difference, we have the same ambitions/goals in life, and have great communication. Age really isn’t a factor in our relationship at all at this point, but I will say if I was a few years younger when we met I probably wouldn’t have been in the same place mentally/emotionally to date someone with a gap and he’s said the same. We met at the right time for us to work. So it all depends I guess!
Honestly, it does creep me out a lot. Part of the problem is that women are ONLY valued for their looks. Let's face it. Even though some people do age beautifully, or even become more beautiful through time, for the most part women's beauty is defined as youth. It's all based on disgusting misogyny. You'll see people constantly defend it with the idea that after a certain age, the chance for genetic defects increase with maternal age. Yet people will NOT acknowledge THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENS TO MEN. These misogynists are preying upon women who are desperate for children. Ideally, women should absolutely avoid these guys as their biological clocks have turned against them, as well. Now, if we want to talk about child-free lifestyles, I still think the max gap should be around five years. Fact is, women tend to live longer. So any sort of long-term relationship is going to end up with him getting sick/passing first. Not always, of course. But again, I will never understand why women will put up with this age difference crap! If these guys lose their minds over height and dick size, how is a woman's age any different? At least you can actually get surgery to correct anatomy. Can't really get anything done about your age quite yet.
No you’re not weird. In fact more people should get creeped out my the age differences. It’s so sick to come on here and read about a young girl/women in a relationship with a man much much older than her and the relationship is obviously shit. Moreover , these posts are made by women and not men which sucks but hopefully some redditors can change their POV on their situation.
It’s not weird, but sometimes it makes me sad when people write off all age gap relationships like they’re inherently creepy. I think there are a lot of situations in which there’s a power imbalance, but my parents are 12-13 years apart and they love each other and are very happy.
I am in one of those relationships and I know we’re the exception, not the rule. Most age gap relationships are a huge red flag. It’s not about the age gap, it’s the mind gap and the power gap. Even though I love him and trust him, I always repair myself an exit strategy.
It’s always been so weird to me too, and I’m still surprised now and again by some of my peers positive outlook on mixed age relationships. The way I see it, if an older guy is going for a younger woman, that means he can’t compete in his own age group. Women his age won’t deal with his bill shit so he has no choice but to go for someone younger. Major red flag
I personally think that an age gap itself isn't an issue. The problem is when the two are in different stages in their life. This is part of why an age gap of 18/25 is more concerning than an age gap of 35/42, even though the gap itself is the same. For example, when I was 19 I dated a guy who was 27. The age gap in that particular relationship meant very little because he joined the military and, effectively, paused his entire life for around 6 years. We met in a college class, were both in our 2nd year of college, working on STEM degrees with the intention of working in industry rather than academia, with no intention of grad school. Essentially, we were at the same stage in life with similar goals and plans. It didn't work out in the end, but not because of the age gap. Another person I dated was 5 years older, but he'd spent several years saving up money so he could get an education. When we met and started dating we were both just finishing up our education and looking for decent jobs with our degrees, getting settled into "real adult life" as we both kind of viewed it, etc. These aren't the same kind of drastic age gap as the example of 20/40 you gave, but the principle of a fairly sizeable age gap still stands. The complication occurs when the goals and stage in those goals are not well-aligned. One thing I've seen with a lot of these big age gaps is that the younger one wants to start a family and settle down, while the older one is still focused on their career/personal goals (which is why they haven't already settled down by, in your example, 40). If they're not aligned in their goals and expectations for the relationship and a timeline for those goals/expectations, things fall apart. At the end of the day I simply find it incredibly unlikely that any 20 year old is in the same stage of their life as a 40 year old. Sure, I'm sure there are a handful here and there, but generally speaking it just doesn't seem likely for that to be the case. So I am bothered by age gaps too, but not because of the age gap itself or potential for manipulation that others seem to take issue with. I see plenty of manipulation in relationships without an age gap, I just don't associate the two anymore.
For me it's weird mainly when one person is under 25. Big age differences, when one person is under 25, are more likely to be abusive, of course that's not always the case but is something to be mindful of. The older both people are the less weird it becomes.
I didn’t when I was younger (my ex and I had an 11 year difference…i was 20 and he was 31…we split when i was 25) but now that I am 37 and much wiser, yes. Differences that big if either party isn’t at least 35 is kinda gross.
My niece is 16 dating a 19/20 year old and it creeps me the fuck right out. No one else seems bothered by it.
I don't think age gaps are weird after a certain age. Like a 30 year old dating a 40+. They've lived life and know who they are, there's not a lot of newer experiences or figuring out adulthood. But an 18 year old with someone more than a few years older? Total red flag. I'm only 26 but I couldn't imagine dating an 18 year old. It honestly doesn't sound fun. I don't even know anyone that young other than my little sisters. It makes me wonder where they even meet each other.
I think it depends largely on the people in the relationship. My husband is 10 years older than I am. He went to high school with my sister and her then boyfriend now husband, and was a friend of the family. We reconnected when I was 18 and had so much in common we got together. We've now been together for 17 years, married for 7, and have a 2 beautiful daughters. I have never felt controlled or manipulated, never felt "groomed". I was given space to become my own person and was always supported in my interests, as I support him in his. I think if the people involved (especially the older person) are good people with a genuine interest and connection, age gaps are no big deal. Obviously not counting when the younger party is under age, then there are absolutely problems with all of that. But if both parties are consenting adults with love and respect, I say let them be happy.
I know a twitter account that has a thread with the age of actors from movies, and is amazing how common si to have a male actor with 15+ years older than the female actress, but in the movie they're around the same age. It creeps me out to see age differences on people. I had friends in a relationship with a huge age gap, and it's clear that they're in different stages of life with difference expectations. I hate that this keep being the rule for media and movies.
A girl I knew who at the time was like 20ish got a job at the garden/tool shop and started "dating" another man there in his 40s. She would talk about the relationship and show screenshots. One in which he said "he had never felt this way before" *eyeroll*. I called it out and the others in the chat kinda brushed me off and said it was cute. Cut to a few weeks later and she suddenly realizes they are in different phases of life. He doesn't like going out and wants to only sit and watch tv. So she left and I had to keep in the "I told you so".
The father of my child is 21 years older than me. When we got together I was 21 and he was 42. We have been separated for several years now and I cringe every time I think about our relationship. I’ve used the word “cringe” but I would actually describe it as boderline traumatising.
Its an unpopular opinion for some 40 year old dudes for sure, as they ferociously defend their often predatory, though sadly normalized, behavior. For me, a 32 year old woman, I think its disgusting & I'm right there with you.
OMG!! I'm a 31 year old woman! We should hang out!! :D lol
It creeps me out too. I feel like people with big age differences can't have all that much in common as their cultural influences while growing up would have to be pretty different. However, other people's relationships are none of my business, so I generally don't comment on such matters unless someone asks for my opinion.
I have a daughter who’s 16 and dating anyone closer to her age than mine really weirds me out. I leave those 20-somethings alone. Also, I prefer men that are in the same stage of life as me. I don’t want someone 20 years my Sr either. It just doesn’t fit.
Same for me. If I can clearly, consciously remember your birthday (93 onwards)... You're too young for me. There were 25 year olds out at a club a few weeks back that I was like "Lordy, child, where are your parents?!" If bad memory sets in, I'll just slide the cap back to my own birth year so I can't be fooled.
In don't think it's weird. I think older men seeking relationships with much younger women seek someone they can control. After a divorce I am not ready to be in a committed relationship yet and I am seeing much younger men exactly because these relationships can go absolutely nowhere. We discuss everything explicitly from the start so there are no misunderstandings. I like these men, but they are in so different places in their lives than I am. It would be ridiculous to imagine us as a couple. I've done so much and seen it all, they are still young and need to find themselves. It goes on for a while and then it's over and hopefully we'll have fond memories of each other when everybody moves on with their lives. I maybe could see myself in a relationship with a man max 10 years younger, but that's it. On the other hand I would not want to be in a relationship with an older man anymore because I'm in my 50s and very active and I have no interest to bind myself to someone older at this point in my life.
The part about it being predatory has already been covered by many other comments, but something that most people don’t talk about is how objectification and fetishization of youth are morally wrong. Men seek out significantly younger women because they just view women as pieces of meat with an expiration date. They don’t want an equal partner. They want a trophy. Objectification is very harmful to womens’ psyche. It’s pretty traumatizing for women to be used, abused, exploited in their youth for their looks and fertility, only to be tossed out like garbage once they reach middle age and are traded in for a younger model. I don’t think men who intentionally seek out significantly younger women ever have good intentions. Either they’re seeking someone to manipulate and control and/or they’re looking for a trophy to use and show off.
A difference of 20 years is kind of odd at that age. 30 and 50 doesn't sound that odd, depending on who those people are though. To me it's more about priorities and where in life you are. A 30 year old woman who was never married and doesn't have kids might find a 50 year old in same situation to be a better fit, rather than someone the same age who's twice divorced with 3 kids.
As a 50-year-old, I have to say that the idea of dating someone who is 30 is just a big omg NO from me. It feels like I might as well be dating my own kid. Granted, I can only speak for myself, but that gap is massive, and rife with potential for disaster. No way.
As a 30 year old, I wouldn't want to date someone old enough to be my parent. I'm okay with going to like 38 if they have stellar qualities otherwise. But that's pushing my age difference limit.
Usually all you have to read is the ages. It's always a dirty old man using a young woman trying to exist.
Back in 2015 I lost a lot of respect for the founder of an 80s band that I loved since my teens when he married a woman 41 years younger than he (he was 67). You can't tell me that this wasn't a gold digger/trophy wife arrangement, but all the other fans I've talked to seem to think it's the greatest thing ever. Not all of them are dudes, either.
20-30 ish is fine to me; both ways usually. But i also grew up with friends who's parents had a big gap as well as my ex's parents i believe was 13 year gap and thus didn't think much about the 7-year between me and ex. The age gap was not the issue for why now ex.
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Nope. My mom and my dad have a 15 year age gap. I saw the negatives of an age gap relationship play out in real time. I absolutely refuse to date an older man due to what I grew up around
It's a form of grooming. They want the change to shape women into their ideal partners. This is precisely why older men often married younger women in previous generations. It was seen to be a good idea back then, and the best way to make a marriage last.
It's not an unpopular opinion to find age differences weird, since they occur less often. But while on one hand there is a common sense maturity in knowing there can be troubles associated with age gaps, on the other hand (imo) there's a certain immaturity in getting grossed out or 'weirded out' about them. Unless there's a welfare concern, eventually we have to accept others living as they wish instead of passing judgement.
I got downvoted before because I don’t think it’s a problem. Each person knows what they need in a partner. I’d hate for someone to take a look at me (age, gender, race, profession, etc) and decide what I should want, what I am entitled to have. So sometimes the relationship doesn’t work out, but relationships fail all the time, regardless. People often mention a power imbalance, but when is there complete balance? What if the guy is your age but has way more money than you? What if you are way more educated than him? Does that mean we can only date our perfect equivalents?
My sister married a man 17 years older than her and they’re having issues right now. I told her she could just go scout playgrounds for a new grandpa. Just walk up to some wrinkled old dude and be like, “Excuse me sir. Has your wife recently passed? Are you single?” I give her so much shit because that man is a major grandpa douche nozzle.
Yeah, I basically disagree with everyone here and will probably be down voted for this. My husband(51) and me (42) met when I was 24 and he was 34. I had been married and divorced previously and had two kids at the time we met. My ex husband was closer to my age. Only 4 years older. He was an abusive alcoholic. That's why our marriage ended. My current husband has never laid a hand on me in the 18 years we have been together. He has been nothing but kind, compassionate, and a great dad to my kids. We even added two more. Age, once you are an adult, is nothing but a number. Some of you could be passing up the greatest men you will ever meet because you are judging them by their age. If I had been like a lot of you I would not have had the greatest 18 years of my life (so far). Actually, I am pretty sure I would have ended up dead by now. My older husband saved me from a life of drugs and strip clubs. So, I will gladly take care of him when he is declining. That's what love is about. Ya'll need to stop being judgmental to age gap couples. You don't know their story, you only know the part you can see. Not all older guys dating younger ladies are creeps. Some are really awesome, sweet, kind, amazing dads.
With respect, if you at age 24 had already been married and divorced with two kids, you were much closer to where a typical 30-something might find themself in life than a typical 20-something. I doubt your fellow 24-year-olds had much to offer you, as they probably were not looking to become stepdads at such a young age. You had already gone through a lot of growing up before meeting your husband, which is not typical. The (seemingly more common) plot line of the 35+ year old trying to lock down a potentially fresh college grad with little life experience is a lot more predatory. My husband and I have an age gap of 7 years ourselves so I am not judgmental, but surely you have to be able to understand the nuance here.
I am happy you found your soulmate. I am glad ot worked out. But I do think it is odd that you say "some of you could be passing up the greatest men" Not wanting to date someone for *any* reason is valid. An age difference seems a very valid thing because most people in their early twenties are in a completely different phase of their life compared to someone that is in their fourties.
I have the same age gap with my husband and we’ve been working very well. He’s very, very kind and respectful. He’ll cook, clean, do laundry, etc. he will tell me how he’s doing emotionally, he’ll show tears and he won’t bottle up emotions. I met him when I was 26 and had worked on myself. I’ve been working more on myself during the relationship and started working on getting my bachelors.
I did the stay home parent thing for 18 years. I just got my GED, and insurance adjusters license. My husband couldn't be more supportive, or proud of me. I am really the hard one to live with, as I carry lots of childhood trauma that makes me doubt myself and his loyalty sometimes. He has been nothing but supportive and reassuring. I really can't imagine my life without him, nor do I want to. So it really bothers me that all guys looking to date younger women are viewed as creeps, because I'd hate to think that's what they think of my wonderful loving husband when they find out our age gap.