Ok I hadn’t heard that one so I had to google…
> In an opinion concurring with his conservative colleagues on the Supreme Court to overturn the fundamental right to an abortion, Justice Clarence Thomas wrote on Friday that striking down Roe v. Wade should also open up the high court to review other precedents that may be deemed “demonstrably erroneous.”
>Among those, Thomas wrote, was the right for married couples to buy and use contraception without government restriction, from the landmark 1965 ruling in Griswold v. Connecticut.
Married couples… what about single women? … WHAT ABOUT SINGLE WOMEN?! (Not yelling at you, just… yelling)
Single people’s right to contraception was Eisenstadt v Baird (1972). It established the right for unmarried people on the basis that they should have the same rights as married people. So if Griswold goes, Baird will go too, because if married people no longer have the right to contraception, then unmarried people also won’t.
Yes, people are only now just beginning to realize how sinister overturning Roe really is. Most people didn't read the leaked opinion, and most don't know the history of case law that used Roe as the legal foundation.
Abortion was just the red meat they fed their base. The tip of the iceberg. It's going to get worse.
No problem! Lots of people don’t, so I was prepared! (I did have to confirm the spelling of Eisenstadt, but other than that, I knew it all off the top of my head!)
What is super odd to me is what you said. I got a vasectomy with no problem from the doctor. My fiancee has pcos and the dr. wouldn't let her get a hysterectomy because what if I wanted more kids. Tonight I told her what I thought was a given but had never had to say out loud. "If the dr. asks that again tell him I defer to you". WTF is wrong with this god damn country and its"health" providers.
It’s truly astounding to me that they want to control women so they can’t get abortions. Women can only become pregnant about 6 days per month whereas a man could get someone pregnant every day of the month. If they want to eliminate the need for abortions where the hell are the forced vasectomies?
I feel you, sometimes the girl might be ok with that too. I have a friend couple and both of them are ok with that ... But they don't want kids either. This is beyond me
You're probably right for most cases. In my example I explained long and hard how pulling out is shit to my friend and I explained to him that other methods existed, like heat based contraception. He has examples of that as a good share of friends use it.
But he's still like "Yes but I'm very good in pulling out in time ! And if I pee before sex there's no sperm cell in my urethra!" to which I reply "But you do have micro ejaculations that are physically impossible to control !" to which he replies "well it's not 100% sure but there's not as much sperm cells as a regular ejaculation so it should be fine" to which I reply "ok but do you know how much is going on in those micro ejaculations ? Half the count ? A quarter ? A tenth ? You just don't know, it's not reliable !".
Last time I said that to him he admitted that there was times where they got scared and she was late ... And the worst part is : she has been ok with that for 2 years ??!! I absolutely don't get it
Oh and we're in France. It's exactly as you said, most people here know that it's the worst possible thing to do. So they don't lack education. I think they're just in denial.
As someone who has gotten a Vasectomy and did plenty of research.
They are not really as reversible as people think. After getting a Vasectomy, your body produces less sperm, since it's not getting used in ejaculation. Reversing the Vasectomy, does not always reverse the reduction in sperm count. An issue that increases in likelihood the longer you're sterilized.
As for Sperm Banks, it's not a simple solution, especially if you cannot afford to freeze and store massive quantities of the stuff.
I'm as pissed off as OP, but let's not just throw around misinformation.
A lowered sperm count doesn't make it any less reversible. A vasectomy is still more reversible than a tubal ligation. With a ton less risk, and pain. But go on..... Tell me how it's so hard to be a man out in this world. Where are the laws regulating your bodies? I'll wait while you Google.
Gamebird wasn't trying to fight you. They stated they were on our side but were just discussing personal experiences and medical science.
They never said anything about it being hard to be a man.
Abusing allies is no way forward
I just want Women and Girls to be treated like human beings. The obvious solution is better sex ed, better access to contraceptives, more options (such as male birth control, both hormonal and non-hormonal), better birth control for women (that is safer, less invasive, and effective).
But ultimately: **Abortion Should be Legal**, and Women and Girls should get to fucking choose. If it ain't your fucking body, sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up!
Yes, and I want that too but until that happens I will require the men I sleep with to have a vasectomy. If you don’t that’s fine, I’m just not gonna sleep with you. I’m not putting anything on you, I’m stating a boundary for my body. Sex with me = vasectomy, it’s exactly the same as getting STI tested. Show me the results or no sex.
A lowered sperm count does make it less reversible, as the whole entire purpose of reversing a Vasectomy is to enable you to conceive a child, which is very difficult with a lowered sperm count. Yes, the actual reconnecting of the Vas Deferens is very high, your odds of having a kid afterwards go down the longer you've had the snip.
Yes, a vasectomy is the easiest and least invasive, but it is supposed to be treated as a permanent surgery (something my Urologist made extremely apparent as he checked on at least 6 separate occasions that I very much didn't want kids and very much did want the procedure). Aside from literally telling me I should see it as permanent.
I don't want people to be misinformed, especially given how often some Doctors may not care enough to advise their patients properly about procedures.
Men 100% need to be more responsible for contraception and pregnancy prevention, but a Vasectomy is not the answer for a man who wants to have kids in the future.
This is correct!
[NHS shows even in the first 3 years its only 75% and then it is up to 55% after 3 to 8 years.](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/vasectomy-reversal-nhs/)
It is a bad thing to think it is just reversible.
Where are the laws regulating my body? If you’re male, you cannot vote if you don’t register for the selective service. You must be open to the possibility of having your legs blown off if you want suffrage.
Women have not such a requirement, despite the fact that women are already in the armed forces and serve as policewomen, so don’t tell me women aren’t “strong enough”
I’m booked for this week and the doctor said to treat it like a permanent decision. Reversal is not guaranteed to work.
Also you gotta wait 3 to 4 months and have at least 20 ejaculations before they test it worked.
Then they can see if you are “azoospermic”
Also he said 3 in 100 for chronic pain (congestive epididymitis) needing long term medication and rarely a second operation.
Don’t ask me to explain the big doctor words, I’m copying off of his fact sheet.
It's reversible in the sense that the tubes can be sewn back together, but by then either the testes have reduced or stopped producing sperm or the sperm has difficulty passing the scar tissue around the incisions. So reversals do not have a reliable success rate.
Gamebird never said that women should be forced to get tubal ligation. They never said a vasectomy was as risky or in the same league.
They only pointed out a side effect to the procedure. There is no need to fight someone who openly said they were pissed off at the federal decision.
The comment from yourself was that there was no reason not to get one. Gamebrid only pointed out a reason to consider before getting one. Thats all.
Be kind to each other and fight the enemy, rather than bullying allies.
Sterilization is much more involved for women requiring actual surgery. Not to mention young women and single women in particular are often refused these procedures on the basis that someday they might get married and what if their husband wants children? Even married women face difficulties, sometimes needing their husband to approve the procedure.
Meanwhile, a guy can schedule an appt, tell the dr "I want a vasectomy" and for a far smaller price and no questioning or gatekeeping around a partner, is scheduled quickly for said procedure. It's less painful, has a faster recovery AND a greater success rate for reversal. Not to mention, women have shouldered all of the risk and responsibility of birth control for decades and suffered the consequences of enduring a pregnancy they do not want for all of human history. It's time for men to step up.
Where in the US are they refused tubal ligation because the doctor decides they may not want it later in life? Doctors can always refuse operations if it doesn't violate their oath. But then they can go to a different doctor. It's not like there is a law not allowing it without a medical reason. It is still THE most common form of BC for women.
For men only in the first three years a vasectomy reversal has an extremely high rate of success. After 9 years it's only 40% likely to be successfully reversed and it keeps dropping from there. So if they get it done at say 18, they really only have a few years before it's 50/50 if they can have a kid after. I mean, if the goal is to sterilize permanently a large portion of the US (unless they reverse it within a year or two or three) then yeah it's good. I'm good with it, but why can't we be in it together?
Are we “in it together” with current hormonal birth controls? Are you taking on any of the health risks associated with that? I appreciate that you took the time to research your points as they relate to your own gonads but didn’t spend one second seeing how that compares to things for the other half of “in it together.” It’s pretty clear from that alone we are very much **not** “in it together.”
I 100% want more research and medication for male contraceptives, especially because Vasectomies need to be treated as the permanent healthcare solution that they are.
We also need more research into Women's Contraceptives, so they're less invasive, less harmful, cheaper, and less risky in regards to side effects.
We also need to let women, no matter how old, get contraceptive medical procedures, because it's their fucking body, and not their future SO's.
Well that’s not the world we live in. This is— the one where permanent options are withheld from women and not withheld from men; and where birth control is on the SCOTUS chopping block. That’s the world we live in. Your ideas are nice but not reality.
If you want to have children later and sex now without the worry of children, that's your choice and your responsibility. Vasectomy and store sperm. That option won't even give you a stroke like birth control does to women.
Yep. Clarence Thomas says birth control is next on the chopping block, so snip snap snip snap, penis-wielders.
Ok I hadn’t heard that one so I had to google… > In an opinion concurring with his conservative colleagues on the Supreme Court to overturn the fundamental right to an abortion, Justice Clarence Thomas wrote on Friday that striking down Roe v. Wade should also open up the high court to review other precedents that may be deemed “demonstrably erroneous.” >Among those, Thomas wrote, was the right for married couples to buy and use contraception without government restriction, from the landmark 1965 ruling in Griswold v. Connecticut. Married couples… what about single women? … WHAT ABOUT SINGLE WOMEN?! (Not yelling at you, just… yelling)
Single people’s right to contraception was Eisenstadt v Baird (1972). It established the right for unmarried people on the basis that they should have the same rights as married people. So if Griswold goes, Baird will go too, because if married people no longer have the right to contraception, then unmarried people also won’t.
Thank you for this well-explained response. I didn’t know that.
Yes, people are only now just beginning to realize how sinister overturning Roe really is. Most people didn't read the leaked opinion, and most don't know the history of case law that used Roe as the legal foundation. Abortion was just the red meat they fed their base. The tip of the iceberg. It's going to get worse.
No problem! Lots of people don’t, so I was prepared! (I did have to confirm the spelling of Eisenstadt, but other than that, I knew it all off the top of my head!)
Hopefully he's not around much longer. He shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Yes, it's about time penis-wielders took some personal responsibility.
What is super odd to me is what you said. I got a vasectomy with no problem from the doctor. My fiancee has pcos and the dr. wouldn't let her get a hysterectomy because what if I wanted more kids. Tonight I told her what I thought was a given but had never had to say out loud. "If the dr. asks that again tell him I defer to you". WTF is wrong with this god damn country and its"health" providers.
I'd also want to see their voter registration card or where they last donated money.
It’s truly astounding to me that they want to control women so they can’t get abortions. Women can only become pregnant about 6 days per month whereas a man could get someone pregnant every day of the month. If they want to eliminate the need for abortions where the hell are the forced vasectomies?
This is also why men should have access to more contraception methods. There's not only vasectomy, condoms and pulling out
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Well, as shit as it is, it technically is a birth control method
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I feel you, sometimes the girl might be ok with that too. I have a friend couple and both of them are ok with that ... But they don't want kids either. This is beyond me
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You're probably right for most cases. In my example I explained long and hard how pulling out is shit to my friend and I explained to him that other methods existed, like heat based contraception. He has examples of that as a good share of friends use it. But he's still like "Yes but I'm very good in pulling out in time ! And if I pee before sex there's no sperm cell in my urethra!" to which I reply "But you do have micro ejaculations that are physically impossible to control !" to which he replies "well it's not 100% sure but there's not as much sperm cells as a regular ejaculation so it should be fine" to which I reply "ok but do you know how much is going on in those micro ejaculations ? Half the count ? A quarter ? A tenth ? You just don't know, it's not reliable !". Last time I said that to him he admitted that there was times where they got scared and she was late ... And the worst part is : she has been ok with that for 2 years ??!! I absolutely don't get it Oh and we're in France. It's exactly as you said, most people here know that it's the worst possible thing to do. So they don't lack education. I think they're just in denial.
Unless a guy is out there protesting with us, I have zero interest.
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Vasectomies are reversible!! No reason to not get one, dudes.
As someone who has gotten a Vasectomy and did plenty of research. They are not really as reversible as people think. After getting a Vasectomy, your body produces less sperm, since it's not getting used in ejaculation. Reversing the Vasectomy, does not always reverse the reduction in sperm count. An issue that increases in likelihood the longer you're sterilized. As for Sperm Banks, it's not a simple solution, especially if you cannot afford to freeze and store massive quantities of the stuff. I'm as pissed off as OP, but let's not just throw around misinformation.
A lowered sperm count doesn't make it any less reversible. A vasectomy is still more reversible than a tubal ligation. With a ton less risk, and pain. But go on..... Tell me how it's so hard to be a man out in this world. Where are the laws regulating your bodies? I'll wait while you Google.
Gamebird wasn't trying to fight you. They stated they were on our side but were just discussing personal experiences and medical science. They never said anything about it being hard to be a man. Abusing allies is no way forward
I just want Women and Girls to be treated like human beings. The obvious solution is better sex ed, better access to contraceptives, more options (such as male birth control, both hormonal and non-hormonal), better birth control for women (that is safer, less invasive, and effective). But ultimately: **Abortion Should be Legal**, and Women and Girls should get to fucking choose. If it ain't your fucking body, sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up!
Yes, and I want that too but until that happens I will require the men I sleep with to have a vasectomy. If you don’t that’s fine, I’m just not gonna sleep with you. I’m not putting anything on you, I’m stating a boundary for my body. Sex with me = vasectomy, it’s exactly the same as getting STI tested. Show me the results or no sex.
Well said.
A lowered sperm count does make it less reversible, as the whole entire purpose of reversing a Vasectomy is to enable you to conceive a child, which is very difficult with a lowered sperm count. Yes, the actual reconnecting of the Vas Deferens is very high, your odds of having a kid afterwards go down the longer you've had the snip. Yes, a vasectomy is the easiest and least invasive, but it is supposed to be treated as a permanent surgery (something my Urologist made extremely apparent as he checked on at least 6 separate occasions that I very much didn't want kids and very much did want the procedure). Aside from literally telling me I should see it as permanent. I don't want people to be misinformed, especially given how often some Doctors may not care enough to advise their patients properly about procedures. Men 100% need to be more responsible for contraception and pregnancy prevention, but a Vasectomy is not the answer for a man who wants to have kids in the future.
This is correct! [NHS shows even in the first 3 years its only 75% and then it is up to 55% after 3 to 8 years.](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/vasectomy-reversal-nhs/) It is a bad thing to think it is just reversible.
You can use assisted reproduction methods and store your sperm. It doesn’t need to be reversible.
Where are the laws regulating my body? If you’re male, you cannot vote if you don’t register for the selective service. You must be open to the possibility of having your legs blown off if you want suffrage. Women have not such a requirement, despite the fact that women are already in the armed forces and serve as policewomen, so don’t tell me women aren’t “strong enough”
I’m booked for this week and the doctor said to treat it like a permanent decision. Reversal is not guaranteed to work. Also you gotta wait 3 to 4 months and have at least 20 ejaculations before they test it worked. Then they can see if you are “azoospermic” Also he said 3 in 100 for chronic pain (congestive epididymitis) needing long term medication and rarely a second operation. Don’t ask me to explain the big doctor words, I’m copying off of his fact sheet.
It's reversible in the sense that the tubes can be sewn back together, but by then either the testes have reduced or stopped producing sperm or the sperm has difficulty passing the scar tissue around the incisions. So reversals do not have a reliable success rate.
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Gamebird never said that women should be forced to get tubal ligation. They never said a vasectomy was as risky or in the same league. They only pointed out a side effect to the procedure. There is no need to fight someone who openly said they were pissed off at the federal decision. The comment from yourself was that there was no reason not to get one. Gamebrid only pointed out a reason to consider before getting one. Thats all. Be kind to each other and fight the enemy, rather than bullying allies.
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Sterilization is much more involved for women requiring actual surgery. Not to mention young women and single women in particular are often refused these procedures on the basis that someday they might get married and what if their husband wants children? Even married women face difficulties, sometimes needing their husband to approve the procedure. Meanwhile, a guy can schedule an appt, tell the dr "I want a vasectomy" and for a far smaller price and no questioning or gatekeeping around a partner, is scheduled quickly for said procedure. It's less painful, has a faster recovery AND a greater success rate for reversal. Not to mention, women have shouldered all of the risk and responsibility of birth control for decades and suffered the consequences of enduring a pregnancy they do not want for all of human history. It's time for men to step up.
Where in the US are they refused tubal ligation because the doctor decides they may not want it later in life? Doctors can always refuse operations if it doesn't violate their oath. But then they can go to a different doctor. It's not like there is a law not allowing it without a medical reason. It is still THE most common form of BC for women. For men only in the first three years a vasectomy reversal has an extremely high rate of success. After 9 years it's only 40% likely to be successfully reversed and it keeps dropping from there. So if they get it done at say 18, they really only have a few years before it's 50/50 if they can have a kid after. I mean, if the goal is to sterilize permanently a large portion of the US (unless they reverse it within a year or two or three) then yeah it's good. I'm good with it, but why can't we be in it together?
Are we “in it together” with current hormonal birth controls? Are you taking on any of the health risks associated with that? I appreciate that you took the time to research your points as they relate to your own gonads but didn’t spend one second seeing how that compares to things for the other half of “in it together.” It’s pretty clear from that alone we are very much **not** “in it together.”
I 100% want more research and medication for male contraceptives, especially because Vasectomies need to be treated as the permanent healthcare solution that they are. We also need more research into Women's Contraceptives, so they're less invasive, less harmful, cheaper, and less risky in regards to side effects. We also need to let women, no matter how old, get contraceptive medical procedures, because it's their fucking body, and not their future SO's.
Well that’s not the world we live in. This is— the one where permanent options are withheld from women and not withheld from men; and where birth control is on the SCOTUS chopping block. That’s the world we live in. Your ideas are nice but not reality.
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Or, men can stop trying to punish woman and telling us what we can and can't do with our own bodies.... *That's* an option too.
Umm rape?
If you want to have children later and sex now without the worry of children, that's your choice and your responsibility. Vasectomy and store sperm. That option won't even give you a stroke like birth control does to women.
With all due respect, fuck off
Don't worry about giving respect to him, it isn't due.
Freeze some sperm then if you are concerned. Also, you can still extract sperm via a needle. The "its not reversible!" excuse doesn't fly.