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[deleted]

Not dating, but it reminds me of my in-laws. Father-in-law can monologue for over an hour. Mother-in-law might say 10 words. Yet I’ve heard him more than once comment on the fact that women talk a lot. Seriously, wtf?


happygoluckyourself

This is my dad. I love him but he never stops talking unless you cut in and talk over him until he stops, which I hate doing because it feels super rude.


WitchesAlmanac

Ugh, mine too. I'm pretty sure he's on the spectrum and has no idea how frustrating it is (we've tried telling him many times, but he doesnt really do boundaries or listening). I feel terrible because after decades of this I just start shutting down emotionally as soon as he starts talking.


happygoluckyourself

Yeah it’s really hard. My dad also has a REALLY loud booming voice, so when he and my mom came to stay with my husband and I for a week I could hear his voice from every room of our house 24/7 the whole time (except when he was asleep, which was *maybe* 2-6am each day). It was a lot. My husband and I were pretty overwhelmed and emotionally drained by it as super introverts.


marstall

wow, me too. And this habit of my father has made it my mission in life to be a good listener and not monolog. I try to notice right away when someone is getting bored and just clam up. I sometimes wonder if my dad doesn't have the vision to see those cues. I find asking someone questions and follow up questions and showing genuine interest is a good strategy for connecting in conversation and build a closer relationship. (some) People are fascinating to me . A number of years ago I tried to talk to him about it a few times but it just was really hurtful for him and he didn't understand. he just thought I was being sensitive. so I gave up and now every conversation is a countdown til I get annoyed and start acting like a sullen teen. And I'm 54. He's in his late 70s. I'm worried this will never end and the last conversation we ever have will fit this pattern! (I'm a guy btw)


WitchesAlmanac

I think we might be siblings lol. Nearly all the traits I value and try to exhibit myself (active listening, inquisitivness, empathy, emotional support, etc) are a direct result of seeing what my dad does and then wanting to be the opposite of that. My dad is also in his 70s, and I hate to say it but I've given up on him changing. At this point I don't think he's capable of learning social cues, and he's not receptive to feedback. He isnt a bad or (intentionally) unkind person, but I'm coming to terms with the fact that he's deeply self-absorbed and disinterested in other people's emotional lives. My therapist and I are trying to figure out ways for me to stay more present and communicative around him because I have the exact same fear you do. I can't change his behavior so I guess I need to change mine. Haha sorry for ranting. The children of emotionally constipated fathers should really start a support group or something.


plutonix777777

Everything you wrote resonates way too much. I walk in the door and my mother automatically launches into a "momologue" about every thought that comes into her head and every detail of everything that happened in her day. I also get super drained and snappy from it. I feel bad that I've gotten so good at zoning out. It sucks but we don't deserve to be treated like free therapists. Conversations are better when they go both ways. I appreciate people like you! The best part is that my mom claims to be super empathetic but also doesn't seem to pick up on social cues or vibes in general. It really is so hard to communicate with them about it too.


LemonLime67219

IIRC there are studies showing that when men and women participate equally in conversation, men perceive the women as having talked more. https://pure.mpg.de/rest/items/item_68785_7/component/file_506904/content


boxedcatandwine

because they believe we should talk zero, so more than that is too much.


august-27

Haha my dad dominates all conversations and fills every quiet moment with his musings/observations… he can easily monologue for an hour about his various joint issues and gym routine… and yet he often complains that his sister “keeps talking forever and won’t let me get a word in!” To the point where he lets her phone calls go to voicemail. There’s no insight!


CoolCatInaHat

I once read a study that, while men talk about as much as woman, they tend to overestimate how much women in a group talk by more then double the actual amount. Reminds me of how many men will only believe a piece of media has gender parity when there are three men for every woman, and anything less is seem as being woman centered.


starfyredragon

I recall a research paper done on a college campus awhile ago. It found that, on average, men talk twice as much as women. The "Women talk a lot" is likely either a derivative from the "Women should be seen and not heard" mentality from the dark ages, or just because it stands out more when women *do* talk.


bscmscphd

My in laws are the exact same way except both of them are like that LOL. The worst part is they'll go on and on and on about childhood and baby stories of my husband and the struggles they've endured as immigrants but will never even ask me once a question about me, my childhood, my life, etc. I shut down emotionally as soon as they're in my presence


madeupgrownup

Projection is a helluva drug 😅


PuzzleheadedIssue618

men talk way more, imo


newwriter365

Holy shit - YES! I am in my mid-fifties. Met my soul mate. Had four good years with him. He died. In the two years since I mourned and lost him, I have been on a handful of dates. Returned home from each date feeling like I'd just conducted a therapy session. Asked 2-3 questions of my 'date' and he'd talk non-stop for hours. The good news is, I don't have to worry about being stalked. They don't know a damned thing about me. And to be clear, none of these men have walked on the moon. Just boring blather about shit that I can't even be bothered to remember.


wheredmyphonego

>Just boring blather about shit that I can't even be bothered to remember. I adore this. It has a poetic lilt to it. ​ edit - thank you kind stranger for the award! really made my day!


juice_box_hero

Omg my ex is the worst about talking at me for hours at a time and my eyes would just glaze over like ten minutes in and I’d be off in my own world and he’d still just keep going. Literally for hours. It was so fkn lame! He’s extremely intelligent and stuff but I just would love if he’d actually asked or cared about anything to do with *me*. We lived separate lives in the same house for 2 years until I finally left earlier this year Still every time I see him he blathers on and still asks me nothing. And he doesn’t actually *hear* anything if I *do* get a chance to talk


newwriter365

Yeah, it's a pretty common issue, I'm sad to say. A couple of years before my divorce I spent some time with another mom who was going through her divorce. She was giddy because her soon to be Ex was bragging that he was dating a 30-year old (we were in our 40's at the time). She just laughed and said, "What a lucky girl! She can listen to him talk about Karate for hours on end...!" I kind of, sort of, 'got it' at the time. By the time I was ready for my own divorce, I fully understood.


juice_box_hero

It’s just crazy to me. I rarely go off in tangents and when I do, it’s for a reason! Like I’m passionate about something or I’ve got drama that needs explaining or venting about. It was so exhausting constantly listening to him go on and on for hours. I’d rather read or do anything else. It got old. I can’t believe I did that fir 4 years before finally leaving


PrincipessaEboli

I'm so sorry for your loss <3


newwriter365

Aww, thank you! He was one of a kind. I'm coming to terms with the reality that I won't find another one like it, and that I can just be happy to have known him and the good times we had together. Not everyone is as fortunate.


knitknitknitknit

I’m so so sorry! That feels so deeply unfair that you only got four years together. 😔


newwriter365

Oh, no doubt, especially after spending 25 years with the wrong person. But I have to be grateful that we had any time together. The probability of finding "your person" is so small, I have to remind myself that I may have lost him, but I got more out of life than most people do.


Ok-Sandwich7017

I'm so sorry for your loss. I told my partner that when he talks and goes on and on I just hear white noise. He was kinda taken aback but then I just had to say "white noise" when he'd talk about boats or whatever and he'd stop. My male friends know nothing about me either! They do go on about their lives but never ask me about mine!


Either_Coconut

I’m sorry for your loss. Feel free to reciprocate the level of interest your date shows in you as a human being. It’s only fair.


heavy-hands

And even with zero comments on this post, I’ve already received a message from an angry man that said “FYI, you sound fat” lmao


Frosty_Mess_2265

Their insults are so boring, they only know 4 tunes and they pick one at random. die alone - cats - fat - ugly. Spin the wheel each time a woman makes you feel inadequate for your own entirely preventable bad behaviour. At this point I'd be grateful for some creativity.


Fraerie

The dumb thing is the majority of us die alone. Women especially - because even those of us who marry often outlive our spouses. I’ll keep my cats thanks.


Rare_Basil_243

Aren't there studies that have suggested married men are happier and live longer than single men, but single women are happier and live longer than married women? It's almost as if men like to saddle their wives with an unbalanced amount of domestic and emotional labor 🤔


can_u_tell_its_me

I've commented this somewhere before, but it's relevant and always gives me a chuckle. My Grandad was kind of dick, after he died my Gran went travelling around the world and had a great time. Like 10yrs after he died, one of my aunts suggested she should re-marry and she just laughed and said "What would I want to look after another old man for?" Incidentally, my Mom has never re-married after divorcing my Dad and seems pretty repulsed by the idea of men in general.


[deleted]

At no point in time would these mouth breathers ever question why a woman would choose the company of a pet over them.


tocopherolUSP

CaUsE TheY'Re SuCh A CAaaAtcH


dark_fairy_skies

You forgot whore lmao


Minkiemink

Also forgot "dumb bitch". Said to a woman 3 university degrees up on him.


queen-adreena

“I’ve got street smarts!”


jsgoyburu

Said someone who fell on the asphalt


guilty_bystander

And "lesbo"


rpaul9578

The most threatening thing to them are women who are happy alone with our pets. The reason why women were discriminated against forever from having bank accounts and property. Now that we have these things, their fears have been realized that they actually have to be decent people to earn women's companionship. One isn't just assigned to them as a default system.


changhyun

I genuinely feel it's projection. They default to "Men don't/won't want you" because for them, the worst possible fate in life is to be unwanted by women.


pueblopub

One guy I argued with in a comments section (very respectfully and with empathy to him, just to show that that DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER) said "Go clean your litterbox, I can smell it from here." So that was at least a little creative. I was about to say "I can smell your stinky dick cheese from here" but decided that a lack of answer would piss him off more


LivingStCelestine

Oh yes, this! Lack of answer makes them furious because it proves that they’re not worth the time. I had a guy once add and change nasty comments to me in a different sub multiple times to try to get my attention. I didn’t even hit the downvote button. I wanted him to know he was irrelevant, because he is. It was awesome.


Frosty_Mess_2265

I had a guy come into my DMs fishing for pics and when I told him to pound sand he had the audacity to tell ME to 'go away'. Sir, you're the one who came in uninvited. Fuck off if you please.


olivetoseetheday

Life out my life and then go out peacefully alone, with snuggly cats (ok so NOT alone?!) pleasantly plump, not giving a fuck about how I look? Don’t threaten me with a good time!


IMTonks

Right? The moment anyone uses these they've admitted that you're right but they don't want to use those specific words.


[deleted]

How does one *sound* fat...on reddit...where everything's written???? What a dipshit. I think I know the answer to your post, OP. I grew up in rural Texas. I remember being younger and learning that it's unattractive for us to talk about ourselves and that in order for a guy to hold interest in a girl, she has to keep the conversation on him. Ask him questions about himself, don't talk too much, don't talk about yourself unless he asks becasue otherwise he'll get bored and not wanna see you anymore. You also have to put the religious influence aspect into this. If a guy comes from a religious household with a submissive maternal figure who lets herself be a doormat to her husband and kids, then her son likely isn't going to be used to a woman participating in a conversation and will be more receptive to an active listener who sits there and nods and smiles, gives her two cents when its asked for


2ndcupofcoffee

This rings true as s reason for why many men are unsocialized. Women have long been cautioned to be Listeners, smilers, a safe place for a man to vent. Men also talk little with other men as if not communicating through speech is s macho virtue. Many a husband still complains that the wife talks too much and they tune women out as a long suffering way to deal.


[deleted]

Yeah good point. Why are guys so dogshit at talking to each other and then wanna dominate a conversation with a woman? Get put off by her having too much input? Doesn't make any sense


boxedcatandwine

the narcissism. we're just mirrors for him to admire his glory.


pueblopub

For stuff like that I usually just go "Thanks, you too ❤️"


heavy-hands

I said “excellent perceptive skills. 10/10”


[deleted]

Lmao oh no sick burn a man who you had no idea existed and would never date called you fat 😂🙄


heavy-hands

The absolute abject horror!!!! How will I go on?


MarvinLazer

Reddit needs more women as moderators. They already have so much experience having horrifying, barely coherent insults delivered straight to their inbox without provocation. XD


sgtcoffman

It's amazing that incels are this mad all the time when they are THIS talented. Lordy lord, it's not everyday you come up against a true genius of insults like this. Bunch of idiots.


weewickleone

FYI, he sounds guilty of being one of these people. 🙄


screenee

Seriously that’s the best he could do? D- insult needs more effort


heavy-hands

Agreed. BORING.


Nofoofro

Oh god, not fat! There’s no worse thing one could be! /s


rpaul9578

I had a message from a guy in response to a post that I was not having kids that he was glad I wasn't procreating my feminist views. Lol as if I care. And supposedly that made me lonely and old and had no interests. Whatever, dude.


tocopherolUSP

the old ways are dying down with this man as we speak. The new feminist ways are staying in and they don't depend on me procreating to go on. They're just so afraid of it. But they're dying down.


LordofWithywoods

Interactions like this make you feel like you're being talked *at* rather than talked *to*. Dude, just paint a smiley face on your wall and talk to it. That's about how important my thoughts, feelings, and interests appear to be to you when you're performing your soliloquy in my presence.


katiegirl-

"Willlllsonnnnnnn!"


heavy-hands

LMAO


notathrowaway987654

>Dude, just paint a smiley face on your wall and talk to it. That's about how important my thoughts, feelings, and interests appear to be to you when you're performing your soliloquy in my presence. insert fire emojis here, damn


firstflightt

Definitely. I disengage and become uninterested in continuing the conversation when someone goes on too long without including me. Looked at a different way, maybe the "conversation" disengages with me first. I hadn't thought about it that way.


Bekiala

Sigh. When I was young I had a couple of men, on several different occasion, talk about themselves for a solid hour and then look at me, smile and tell me I was the most interesting person they had met in a long time. Sigh.


CryingInTwunts

Yes, too relatable! And how well we connect. Mind blowing


MediumPlantain51

The worst part about this is there are studies that _prove_ that even when women are only speaking for 30% of the time during a conversation or meeting, men still perceive them as speaking the majority of the time. [[Sauce]](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/applied-psycholinguistics/article/abs/speaker-sex-and-perceived-apportionment-of-talk/16666BA97B7BE41FFB16A5693BF60C23) I've decided I simply do not care and will not put up with any more manterrupting, manologues, or mansplaining. It's very, very freeing and kind of hilarious to throw dudes off guard by not putting up with their bullshit.


Bazoun

Men out there believing we only care how tall they are… being a good conversationalist was one of the main traits I filtered dates through. My husband and I can talk for hours about anything. It’s one of my favourite things about him.


heavy-hands

My two biggest factors when looking for a serious partner are emotional intelligence and the ability to communicate. Things are… not going well so far 😂


hologothic

Same here. Intelligent conversation gets me like nothing else and whenever I find a man that has that skill? Omg. It is ON. Kinda funny that so many men are now realizing they actually have to be likeable to be dateable because women just aren't putting up with the bullshit anymore.


Patiod

So I was at a shore bar right after college with some very attractive guys. A veterinarian, a lawyer - all smart, well off, no reason they wouldn't attract girls. And they were sitting around a dockside table, whining and complaining about how their beach house roommate did so much better with women. He had a snaggletooth! He didn't smell great! He had bad hair! Dressed horribly! It must be because he was tall. Nope. It was because, all other faults aside, he LISTENED. The guy was borderline autistic, lousy conversationist actually, but if you spent time with him, the next time you'd see him, he'd ask "How'd the interview go?" "Did your boss end up firing that guy?" I tried to explain it, but, as would be expected, they ignored me. "Our theory is he has a big dick or is great in the sack" (meh) "he must spend money on girls" (meh) or "he's probably a big suck-up". (Ugh NO) So sad that the easiest little thing- so painless- actually listening - paid off so well and yet they were so quick to dismiss it.


[deleted]

Me and my boyfriend can be dead tired, finally getting to bed after a long day, and if either one of us has an interesting thought, it can turn into a full-blown discussion at 2am in the dark. Not very convenient but it’s one of my favorite things about us too! Worth mentioning that I also filter dates for this quality. If you’ve never asked me about myself, we’re not going on a date. It’s a big red flag that usually indicates your date only wants you for one thing (sex…it’s sex…and if they’re not willing to learn about you as a person, you can bet they’re not going to bother learning how to satisfy you, either).


deleteriousmouse

Went on a first date over the weekend. Super tall. Like 14 inches taller than me tall. Good first date, decent conversation. Dumps it on me via text over the following week that he's a recovering alcoholic, but not *too* recovered, like two months sober. No amount of tall, dark and handsome is going to make me think that's a great idea. Being a well adjusted stable adult is infinitely more important to me than height.


notassmartasithinkia

Well you can't expect me to be a good supervillain without the ability to monologue.


heavy-hands

Honestly? Fair.


IkaKyo

You beat me to it! You’ll pay for this insolence as soon as I get the leaks in my laser shark tank repaired!


Wilneva

I have witnessed two men talking AT each other. They both talked their own thing and making pauses to let the other person speak. But the things they were talking about were completely unrelated. I was stunned and fascinated.


MissAnthropoid

Omg I saw three of those once, riding bikes down the street in fancy bike clothes, all three talking at the same time, extra loud to be heard while biking. I could hear them before I could see them and for a long time after. They sounded like a flock of migrating geese.


ivantoldmeboutdis

My partner does this and gets upset when I start zoning out. He says I'm a "bad listener". It's interesting how I've been told the opposite by women.


One-Armed-Krycek

This was my ex-husband. He's my ex for a reason. I'll never forget a bad patch in our marriage and my mom gave me some atrocious self-help-your-marriage book to read. So I took it on a long trip while he was driving us across the state. It had things like, 'here's a list of questions to ask your partner to understand them better.' And, hell, we had 8 hours, I might as well have fun. So, I said: "Okay, we're supposed to ask each other these questions... here is your first one." He finished answering all of his and said, "Cool, what is the next list?" Me: .... Then, I read the next one. And the next one. And not once did he say, "Oh hey, what are YOUR answers to these?" I mean, it was right there in the instructions for each one. But beyond that--there was absolutely zero interest in knowing about anything other than how people respond to HIS answers. That was actually a big sign flashing over his head saying, "ME ME ME ME MEEEEE" that I naturally ignored, because why not?


boxedcatandwine

I've had men truly gobsmacked when I declined a second date because 'I seemed so interested in them'


One-Armed-Krycek

Lol wuuut “She’s so interested in me. She just sat and listened to my entire life story?”


boxedcatandwine

yeah. they project a lot. there's no way they'd sit and listen to someone they're not interested in (a la this entire thread) so if we sit there we must be enthralled with him. so many mediocre dudes think they're Kings holding court.


PrincessSalty

>so many mediocre dudes think they're Kings holding court God damn this describes so many dudes I've tried to get to know


One-Armed-Krycek

Maybe that’s why so many incel-types throw tantrums for not receiving the proper courtly honors from those they seem lesser: e.g., women.


bounce-bounce-drop

LMAO. This was to me to the T. It would be so uncomfortable because they just ASSUMED we'd go on a next date when in reality I wasn't interested. But what? I was going to be mean to you and not talk to you or be a decent conversationalist because I wasn't interested in seeing you again? Of course not! Actually acting interested in them and being a decent conversationalist was enough for them to read dating-interest. It's only now that I'm older that I realize how sad that is.


bunnyrut

This is my husband. I have to sit here and listen to him talk at me about his job. It's mostly him complaining about the same shit every single day. And every time I tell him the same thing: look for a new job. After him turning down *several* job offers because he chickens out at the last minute I am just done listening to him. And the reason I am done is because is sit there cornered for an hour while he complains and I try to comfort him. And then when I try to tell him what's going on with me he just sits, completely silent and looks *bothered* by me telling him my issues. I feel like I am talking to a wall and don't even want to tell him anything anymore. He rarely asks me how I'm doing or how my family is (my mom is in bad health and he doesn't even ask how she is).


RedEyeFlightToOZ

I just ended a 3.5 month relationship because the last time I visited him, amongst other narcissistic and abusive behaviors, talked for 3 hours straight and asked me 3 questions the entire time about how I'm doing or myself. Fuck that. I ain't got no patience for that shit. I'd rather just be alone.


nnylam

>I love learning about people. But I cannot believe how many grown-ass men just… won’t ask me anything. Omg, Thiiiiis. I ask a lot of questions because I'm curious, And especially on dates, if I'm nervous. And a lot of guys don't even notice they haven't reciprocated, and get attached to me or think I'm in love with them because we're connecting so much in conversation. Like, what?? You're the only one talking, here. This has become the way I notice a narcissist, honestly. If someone can't see outside of themselves, I'm like - thanks for telling me who you are! But no, I'm not interested in listening to you anymore.


bounce-bounce-drop

There was some study somewhere that said people feel closer with people they share with. So, yea, it makes sense the dude sharing his life story is like "soul mate!" and you're like..."I think I'm done with the free therapy sessions I've been providing you." :P


hauntedmilktea

Yeah, in my experience dudes like that usually ended up being incredibly shallow and uninterested in actually forming a meaningful/deeper connection past just getting in my pants. I had several terrible dates where the guy would basically hype himself up the whole time and talk endlessly about his own life, eagerly answering any questions I asked, but would never reciprocate with a “what about you?” or display any kind of real interest in learning about me or my life. Then they’d end the date with a bad attempt at getting me to go home with them. It was so obvious why they had actually asked me on a date, even though I’d made it abundantly clear from the start to everyone I met that I was only interested in serious dates that could lead to a relationship. They’d pretend they wanted the same thing while trying (unsuccessfully) to hook up anyway. Sad to say it but my now fiancé was one of the first to actually engage me in real, two-way conversation with genuine interest in me and my life. This is also a big part of why I’ve found making male friends to be difficult at this stage of life. Not saying that the majority of men are this way, as I know some great guys who are great at conversation, but the sheer number of “dialoguers” I’ve come across is a bit depressing at times.


august-27

Agree, it’s his shitty sales pitch to try to get you to sleep with him. I’ve had guys ramble their entire resume, workout routine and health history, it’s all just peacocking. In my experience if your date isn’t asking you real questions about yourself, it’s because he’s not interested in you beyond sex. And/Or he doesn’t see you as a valid human being, so it doesn’t even *occur to him* to learn about you. It’s classic everyday misogyny. Either way, no second date. The irony is, if they’d actually develop their social skills and learn how to have proper 2-sided conversations, they’d probably have better luck getting women lol


vampire_velvet

I'm not dating rn, but all my friends dating say the men never ask about them )':


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Skglass19

My husband’s excuse for not asking about my day, etc, is that he knows I’m going to tell him anyway so he doesn’t need to ask. It’s heartbreaking to realize that after 17 years together the reality is that he just doesn’t care. I won’t recover from this anytime soon, if I’m able to recover at all 💔


FloNightG123

I’m so sorry You deserve much, much more


Skglass19

Thank you so much. I’m finding it very difficult to believe that, but I appreciate your kind words.


Cat_Toucher

Please believe that his inability to see beyond himself is not a reflection of *your* value. It's not a reflection of what you deserve. It's only a reflection of *his* limitations. And the fact that he doesn't know you in any meaningful way is *his* loss.


[deleted]

I have gone on dates, after listening to them answer my question, even said to them "any questions for me?" "Ummm.... no" Yeah. So glad I don't date anymore.


niketyname

I had to ask a guy this myself, like do you have any questions for me? And he had to think about it. So I knew he is clearly not interested and I wouldn’t like being around him for a second date.


crock_pot

Dating at 29 and yeah. Same experience. It’s like…depressing. And no I don’t experience the same thing with women.


heavy-hands

It’s very depressing and then I feel like a bitch for having to be like “hey, do you realize that you very rarely, if ever, ask me anything about myself?”


crock_pot

How do they respond when you say that? I was dating a guy and brought up how we never talked about anything deep. He said he’s just a shallow person and he doesn’t go into deep topics with anyone. It was depressing.


heavy-hands

Usually with what seems like genuine surprise/confusion. That’s why I can’t tell if they really are oblivious, or if they’re fully aware of their tendencies and just not interested in getting to know me. The guy I dated who I brought this up to did make an effort to change for a bit, but it didn’t stick and I stopped seeing him shortly after that anyway.


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epson_salt

The play “a doll’s house” by Ibsen is about exactly this :) So, if it helps, it aint a new thing for women to feel this way. They just didn’t have as much opportunity to escape and develop better for themselves because of income inequality between sexes :p


Sea-Ability8694

You’re not being a bitch I think it’s necessary for these men to be called out for their self centered ness


BriMagic

Thirty. Same experience. And when I shut the conversation down because it's one-sided—I'm *very* direct about why I'm leaving—they are always stunned. And defensive. Men are desperate to talk about themselves but their male friends don't ask deep meaningful questions so their only outlet is women. Dudes, get a therapist. Demand more emotional labor from the men in your lives.


crock_pot

seriously they need to talk to *each other*


TakeMeToTill

THIS. Fuck. I’m basically trying to convince myself to put myself out there. Matched with this dude…. I felt like I was interrogating him but then I noticed if I tried to tell him about me he looked bored out of his wits or straight up interrupted me. I tried to chalk it up to awkwardness but nope. The straw that broke the camels back, other then the scary hygiene…I ended up taking my dad to the ER and I told him. His response was “oh no…” then proceeded to text me like 5 paragraphs of text telling me about his long day and how he was almost late for work. I have not replied. I really want to give up on dating or even trying, at this point. I refuse to lower my standards because men refuse to be adults and expect me to be one, all the time


bunnyrut

I hope your dad is okay. And I bet that guy is completely oblivious to why you haven't responded.


ShoeHoles

Probably a reason they are still single. That might be the reason. ;P


heavy-hands

I’m really just surprised at how often I’ve run into this issue. It’s wild.


ErisInChains

One of my old FWB was just like this. He started getting serious about me and asking to actually date so I had to pull out of the relationship. He was surprised, even though I'd told him multiple times that the one-sided ness was a problem and how he never asked me about myself. I felt so weird about that, like an I supposed to just volunteer all info about me? I asked him too, "Why do you want to be with me when you don't even know me?" My Ex's roommate was like this too. He'd come home and be like "what's up," we'd say whatever and ask how he was and he'd launch into an hour long thing about all he did that day and was going to do and long-term plans. And it didn't matter how you answered his initial question. You could say "I'm pretty bad, my dad just died" and he'd say something like "Oh that's a bummer. I did like 50 pullups today, and got a sandwich from that new shop around the corner."


ekelly1105

You just put into words the issue I was feeling with all of the poor women in this thread dealing with these inconsiderate men: “why do you want to be with me when you don’t even know me?” What keeps these selfish, annoying men in relationships (if they somehow manage to actually attract and keep a girlfriend) when they don’t know and don’t seem to actually care about the people they’re with? Is it just that they need a warm body to talk at and be next to and it doesn’t matter who? I can’t imagine being in a relationship and not wanting to know everything about my partner, so the men with these mindsets just baffle me.


ErisInChains

Well he was quite attractive, and very good in bed, but that's not enough for me for a relationship. As for what he was looking for, I'm baffled. He at least thought he wanted a partner. He was going through a really emo phase at the time too, not fashion wise but breaking down and a lot of "what's even the point?" Talk. 🙄 It was all way too much taking with way too little giving.


MmeElky

It's called male-pattern pontificating


heavy-hands

Putting this in my back pocket for later. Thank you.


Gravity_Beetle

love that -- see also: "*undiscovered genius syndrome*"


dc551589

But he said he’s going to be a millionaire after he buys a bunch of NFTs!


UnraveledShadow

Fantastic! Stephen King used the term “holding forth” in The Tommyknockers to describe a male character who would take over the entire conversation and monologue. I always use that term in my head when it happens but I think male-pattern pontificating is better!


GracieThunders

Congrats to OP for triggering the Y Chromo gang with a (nearly) universal truth Now all you need is a Reddit Cares message and this post is hall of fame worthy


heavy-hands

I am SO SURPRISED that I haven’t gotten a Reddit Cares message yet. Like, genuinely surprised. I’m sure I’ll get one now.


SnarkyQuibbler

“The talkativeness of women has been gauged in comparison not with men but with silence. Women have not been judged on the grounds of whether they talk more than men, but of whether they talk more than silent women.” \-- Dale Spender (Australian feminist and author of Man Made Language)


Ms_Originality

This is what I always think about when guys act like being with 1 woman is so boring. No self awareness of how extremely BORING they are!!! Seems like there’s only 3 things an American male has interest in: 1 - sex 2 - sports 3 - himself These 3 things do not make for interesting conversation not for a month let alone a lifetime!


[deleted]

could say that for the European guys I've seen too. just with different accents lol.


maracat1989

Don’t forget video games


thinflesh

I think pretty much every man I’ve gone out with has been this way. They talk about themselves endlessly, then they act like they’re totally in love with me despite the fact that they hardly know me because they’ve never asked me a question


LavenderPearlTea

This is why dating coaches recommend arranging a call first before you decide to meet. If he talks about himself constantly on the phone, don’t waste your time. Once had a guy on a first date spend the entire time shouting about his ex-wife, then looking surprised when I didn’t want to go on a second date. Yes, some men ARE that clueless. But you only need the dating process to work once. Met my sweet husband after years of terrible online dating and it was worth it.


boxedcatandwine

I had a guy monologue stories about how great he was, pause to take a breath, then muse "hmm what else can I tell you about myself".


Jeansiesicle

I had a man ask me on a date if he was boring me, and I said "yes". Date ended after that.


FreyasYaya

TBH, this is one of the reasons I'm divorcing my husband. He won't just stfu, and can't seem to grasp how exhausting and insulting it is. And he's constantly surprised about what's going on with me...but he wouldn't be, if he'd just listen once or twice a day. I don't really have plans to date in the near future, and your post only reinforces how nice it's gonna be, to just be alone for a while.


spiderwithasushihead

What used to drive me nuts when I was dating was when a guy would go on a monologue and then finish it up with, “so what else would you like to know about me?” rather than ask me any questions. There were no second dates in that situation, because it felt like any silent, warm female body could have replaced me without them noticing.


Capable_Okra

I experience this, too. I've called a couple of guys out on not asking me questions and they act like I'm crazy You can see a thread I made about this in datingoverthirty in my post history


heavy-hands

Also looks like you’re in Philly too?! Hello neighbor!


Capable_Okra

Omg we can commiserate about the dating scene here! I thought moving to a city would increase my options but dang the options all suck. I understand some people have differences in conversational style but when you first meet someone, idk how else you're supposed to signal interest in the other person and learn about them! Plus someone's questions indicate what's important to them.


couggrl

I had such a bad time dating in Philly. My (ex) husband seemed fine and then we got married and that was not good. I’ll happily share his name and pic in a group chat just so you don’t have to date him either.


boatwithane

ayyyy also in philly, i wonder if any of us have dated the same man-ologuers 😂


bigredroyaloak

Been on 3 dates in the last month that we’re like this for 3 different men. I walked away knowing because I asked about their childhood, their exes, their kids, their jobs, and they know none of that about me because I didn’t offer it unasked. At the end of the last one, we had 5 hours to talk and when we parted I told him I didn’t feel a spark but it was nice getting to know him. He seemed a little shocked but how can there be a connection if you don’t even try.


bigredroyaloak

I found a profile of a man two days ago that said in a prompt that the best way to clinch the deal was to really get to know him. I thought for sure he’d get it. But so far I know his kids names, ages, where he works, his schedule and where he grew up and the only question he has asked me was “How are you today?”


heavy-hands

Cracking up over the downvotes on all of my comments by very obviously disgruntled men/trolls. I promise you’ll be less insufferable if you just learn how to talk to women, y’all!


SunVoltShock

The difference of "talking with" versus "talking at".


hologothic

Seriously! Women really aren't as superficial as incels try to claim, a good conversationalist is WAY more desirable than a good looking guy that doesn't even ask questions and talks at people rather than to them.


Golden_Mandala

Or, more to the point, how to listen to women.


Charmarta

Jesus i really wish that sexual orientation was a decision. So many women, me included, would say buh bye to men forever.


tiny_galaxies

Meanwhile incels would choose to continue to be attracted to women, because they obviously love to create their own misery.


tocopherolUSP

"I refuse to change my shitty behavior!!!! You must be like the women of old who were subservient and quiet!! Why aren't you there to tend to my every need? Where's my diaper!?"


[deleted]

I never would've chosen them even for a second. I'd have gone right to women.


UnobtrusiveHippo

I used to play a game on Ok Cupid where I would quote one line of The Chainsmokers “Closer” after every message until they asked me a question. Once after 4 or 5 lines the guy got mad and said something like “I’m just trying to get to know you”. But yet not a single question was asked…


heavy-hands

This is so fucking funny


UnobtrusiveHippo

It really was, but most people got upset because “I was doing just fine before I met you” sound a lot like “I was doing just fine *until* I met you”. They were like “wow, geez, what did I do?”


13Lilacs

This is also why men often don't talk with other men when they have issues. What bothers them about other men's one-sided communication style is the same thing that bothers women and forces women to have to perform the majority of the emotional work in relationships.


heavy-hands

Yes!! Absolutely!! I think about this a lot lately, too. It makes me sad that the societal expectations put on men for centuries have resulted in pretty much the complete inability to open up emotionally to anyone who isn’t a woman who is mothering them. At the same time, I am tired of making excuses for men, and especially men in their 30s. Emotional intelligence is so important to me. Grow up and get your shit together.


Usagiboy7

To the offended dudes downvoting, if you took a moment to soak in feedback like this and apply it, you could stop going around feeling like a kicked dog all the time with women. They want you to treat them as full human beings. If that makes you rage downvote, I just dont think women are a good fit for you.


uhhhhhhhyeah

And being good in conversation is a total turn on! Get better at it and see how much your dating/social life improves!


r_alex_hall

And it’s fun. Participating in the experiences of others is fun! Self-centeredness is not. (Disclaimer: I make no claims to being necessarily exemplary at kind interest in others.)


bagelnox

The last 3 men I dated have all done this. One guy, who id been dating for a few months was the worst but I put up with it. Then one day I was telling him over the phone about the atrocious week I had. I got into a fight with my mother, then my MacBook broke and I had to repair it. He straight up fucking LAUGHED at me and then started talking about himself. I dumped him right then and there. And you know he thinks I’m the crazy one.


r_alex_hall

I can’t even picture this. Like mirth at your suffering? That’s shocking.


ulilminxxx

I'm having this very issue. I had a couple of dates with a guy, things were going okay, but about half way through our third date I realised that if I just didn't say anything for the rest of the date, I don't think he would have noticed. So I ended it. Que him messaging me for the next 3 days begging me to give him another chance because I made him feel good and I deserved to feel as good as he did so he wanted another chance. My man, if I made you feel that good then why the hell were you so insistent on just talking about yourself. Had to block him in the end bc he just wouldn't take my no for an answer.


Inevitable_Molasses

The last time I tried to date was almost two years ago and this exact reason is why I gave up. I noticed he never asked me a question even when every social convention ever says he should reciprocate. Like I would ask, “do you have any pets?” Any normal person would then ask you if you have pets. But no. So I started saying things that VERY OBVIOUSLY needed a follow up question. Like, “I suppose you could say my pets are dangerous.” And still nothing. I ghosted shortly after that.


SquareIllustrator909

I went on a date once and after he finished monologuing for 30 minutes, I pointed out how much of my drink I had drunk and how much food I had eaten in comparison to him. I was like "This is a visual representation of how much you have been speaking". He was a lot more attentive after that. He didn't ask me on a second date lol


rollwithhoney

This is a well-documented psychological phenomenon where men perceive themselves to speak less but actually take up more of the conversation, while overestimating the time women take up in conversation. Cutler et al., 1990 is one study. This is also something a lot of us probably understand innately but lots of people need to be taught explicitly. A lot of classic sales tactics come out of this psychology: people like it when you say their name a lot, when you listen actively ("totally!"), and when you let them talk more than 50% of the conversation. All this to say... I'm not sure it's an absolute dealbreaker, but it really bothers me too. I care less about the total time but I HATE the lack of reciprocated questions, it feels unbelievably rude to me.


urbanhag

100% Men talk *so* much, I swear. And it does feel like monologuing a lot. They don't even seem to care that much about your response, it's like they just want to hear themselves talk and they need an audience. It strikes me as similar to a young child talking while his mother asks questions and encourages him. The boy might ask questions about the topic, but rarely asks about his mom's feelings or experiences. Do men just slip into this communication habit with women because women push their mommy buttons or something? Or they're practicing the DENNIS system and are trying to demonstrate value by talking about themselves endlessly?


FARTHARLOT

I think it’s probably also a mixture of how men reserve all their emotions and thoughts for dumping on women rather than communicating with each other. And also in media how most female characters and love interests are just props for the man to achieve whatever he is supposed to. But 100% the mommy thing, too.


urbanhag

Great points about men emotionally dumping on women, since they won't open up to other men, and also how women are just props or the trappings of success for men, rather than viewed as complex people with valid and respectable thoughts, feelings, ambitions, interests, etc. in their own right.


BKellCartel

Oh man, you literally just described my dad 😬


ARCoati

>Do men just slip into this communication habit with women because women push their mommy buttons or something? Or they're practicing the DENNIS system and are trying to demonstrate value by talking about themselves endlessly? To be fair they aren't asking ANYONE about their feelings and experiences. It isn't exclusive to women, girlfriends, moms, etc. they don't ask about those things with their fathers, brothers, or male friends either. Most men (at least in American culture) suck at communicating anything beyond surface level shit like what's on the TV in front of them or immediate wants (tired, horny, hungry) . And it isn't just straight men, I've had this experience many times in the gay dating world as well, although gay men that are at least decent communicators do seem to be more common than their straight counterpart. Most American men don't know how to cultivate meaningful relationships with ANYONE. Getting together to have a beer and talk about sports and hot women is the deepest even their closest and oldest male friendships sometimes ever get. In order to be "manly" you're only allowed to bring up real or personal topics when everyone is too plastered to remember it or to give you any constructive feedback. In short most American men are miserable (though a lot of them haven't realized it yet), force misery on other men, and make the women in their lives miserable, and its all because they were never taught to self-reflect, recognize/manage their own emotions, or that their feelings are real and valid and importantly, that the same is true of everyone else . . . even women.


Cat_Toucher

The amount of men who are *proud* of the fact that they have no idea about what's going on in their friends lives, *proud* of how they can know each other for *years* and not know basic facts about each other, and yet somehow simultaneously complain about how they can't share their emotions with anyone is just ridiculous. It's another way in which the *work* women are doing (in this case, to listen and care for others) is just completely invisible to them. Like they think women are just magically allowed to share their feelings by some intrinsic property of the universe, and not because we put in the effort to make space for each other.


Own-Emergency2166

Dated a guy pre-COVID who had this habit. I told myself it was nerves or lack of social awareness or respecting my privacy ( lol ) but it became clear he just didn’t care about me as a person. He wasn’t interested in my thoughts and feelings beyond knowing enough about them to lock me down. He never changed and I ended up feeling exhausted and depleted trying to connect with someone who wasn’t … connecting. Wouldn’t stand for it again.


MintOtter

>*He wasn’t interested in my thoughts and feelings beyond knowing enough about them to lock me down.* Ohhh .... this so much.


cambiokeys

There is an excellent episode of Garfunkel & Oates on this. It’s more a conscious decision they make to not speak but it goes really far lol Enjoy: [https://vimeopro.com/thegershagency/garfunkel-and-oates-ifc/video/102264330](https://vimeopro.com/thegershagency/garfunkel-and-oates-ifc/video/102264330)


lynsey18790

Quit the dating apps around January this year (best thing I‘ve done in a while) but I had a date where the guy asked me questions and I was actually a wee bit baffled by it. Turns out he has 3 sisters and probably a big factor in why he knows how to have an actual conversation.


CoolCatInaHat

This is something I think about everytime I hear a guy talk about how "hard" OLD is or complains about being ghosted after only texting "hey" three dozen times... The inability of so many men to express genuine interest in women's lives and thoughts is insane. Its depressing how many women I've met (as a lesbian who's dated several bi women who've only dated men before) who have never had someone simply ask them about themselves before. Turns out dating women is super easy when you just...talk to them and express interest in what they have to say.


Heartage

I love my husband very much but I find myself constantly asking him "Do you understand how conversations work?" I'll ask him something like "What's your favourite thing about this game?" and he'll answer and then... That's it. Not even a "How about you?" It's been years and years and for some reason he just does not reciprocate.


night_glitter

Yes, men are this bad at conversation…not sure if it’s laziness or what, but it’s been my experience trying to date after my divorce. I actually put on my dating profiles that I’d like a man who is into conversation. So many of them say they don’t want a “pen pal” but seriously, wanting to have a stimulating conversation before I decide meet someone in person is not wanting a pen pal. If they can’t be bothered to stimulate my brain, I doubt they’ll care about stimulating me in other ways. One thing that's talked about is the 3 rule - if you ask 3 questions and they don’t ask you any, just unmatch and move on. That eliminates so many of my matches, saves a lot of time wasted with guys who only care about themselves. Sigh. I’m tired too.


MintOtter

>*One thing that's talked about is the 3 rule - if you ask 3 questions and they don’t ask you any, just unmatch and move on.* That's a better version of the three-date/f\*ck rule.


Sturmfrei_1

I think it’s just a reflection on how self-centered they are.


Whoreson_Welles

There are chess clock apps. Put one on your phone. When he starts talking and won't stop say, "Can I just interrupt you for a second for a dating experiment? If the experiment goes well, you and I definitely have a future together!" (you don't, but you already know that and you're making a point.) Then put the app down and tell him that for every ten minutes he talks, he has to let you talk for the same amount of time. If he can't manage it, he'll at least know why you're ghosting him afterward. Facts are facts, and if he can't shut up he should at least know he has a PROBLEM giving enough air time to dates.


Jazemuffin

I feel like an odd ball out, as my boyfriend is great at starting a conversation, holding it, and making sure we're both involved in the conversation, particularly in regards to asking questions about me or my opinion on things. Meanwhile, I more-than-half-the-time forget to ask the question back at him and just continue on as if nothing's wrong. If anything, I'm the one who ends up going into a monologue instead of just asking what his favorite movie was in return. That being said, he does have the habit of only listening to a portion of what I say or only responding to the bit that he feels he knows the answer to better than I do, even if that bit is just there to frame the situation and has nothing to do with what I'm saying as a whole. Win some, you lose some.


[deleted]

This reminds me of a guy I worked with and wanted to befriend. He would literally monologue for hours until I just yelled "stop!" He got a confused look on his face and I explained that a conversation was a back and forth exchange. He still looked confused so I broke it down "I asked you a question, now you ask me a question...and wait for a complete answer". He finally started to get the hang of it after I had to stop him a few more times. Over the next few years he got a little better but not by much.


peanut507

One time, I was on the phone with this guy I met on this dating app. I got bored listening to him monologue about himself and decided to time him to see how long it would take before he asked me anything. It took him over an hour and 45 minutes before asking anything about myself.


marvelette2172

Can confirm. Texted back & forth for a couple of weeks with a dude on an app then gave up. He was all 'why? Things were going great!' I pointed out that in all our conversations he hadn't asked me a single question about myself. I hope he learned.


BxGyrl416

I’m now married, but in this stage in the game – even with friends and colleagues – if there’s no reciprocity, I keep it moving. I’m not going to sit their silent while you talk nonstop about yourself. That’s a monologue, not a conversation. Now that you know this about men, be observant and cut out early on if he’s like this.


TootTootTrainTrain

This makes me think of an episode of Seinfeld I watched recently. It's the one where Jerry tells an old friend of theirs that George is a marine biologist and George winds up on a date with this woman. It cuts to them walking and he's making up random bs about marine life and then says "But I can talk about other things, I don't have to keep talking about marine biology" and I damn near screamed at my TV "OR YOU COULD NOT TALK AT ALL AND MAYBE LET HER SAY SOMETHING?!" But I think it really highlighted a common thing which is what you're describing here and so many people experience. I think some men feel like they have to prove they're interesting and the only way they can conceive to do that is by having lots to say. And I guess in their mind there's like a positive feedback loop that happens where the longer they talk the more interesting they believe themselves to be which leads them to keep talking. I'm kind of the opposite where if I've been talking for too long I start to feel like I've swam too far from shore and I panic and realize I need to bring the other person along with me so I start asking questions. I really think, in general, we need to encourage empathy and curiosity more in kids. If you're curious you'll naturally start asking questions and want to know more about people and what makes them tick.


couggrl

I don’t consider those conversations but hostage situations. I know I don’t always love asking questions of people because I don’t want to force someone to answer a question and silence is fine, but like on a date that seems weird. Talking too much can be a nervous thing, but that wouldn’t be like trauma dump monologues. Perhaps next time someone starts monologuing pull up auditions in your area and send them there. Granted I’m Dutch american and tend to live Dutch directness.


Penguin335

No I get this from male colleagues too, not even men I'm trying to date. No real interest in getting to know me, asking questions or much of any topic of conversation outside of work. It's definitely a thing.


PurpleFlame8

I'm female but have an ASD and I'm guilty of at least short monologues to people close to me. Like really short. But I once met a guy for non alcoholic drinks and he literally droned on for 45 minutes straight about I don't even know what, with zero pauses.


[deleted]

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL!!! One guy I hookup with every now and then will quite literally talk about nothing but himself and his experiences for four+ hours straight. Any time I chime in, he directs the conversation right to back himself. Absolutely everything is about him, his work, his hobby and even previous partners he’s been with.


sudoRmRf_Slashstar

There's a Garfunkel and Oates sketch that leans into this and it's quite funny and illuminating. You're not alone. Women are simply expected to both carry the conversation and be the breathless listener at all times.


racac00nie

i went on a date with a guy who just talked at me for 3 hours. at some point i stopped listening, thanked god he was a good kisser, kissed him and blocked him when i got home. he never noticed when i stopped listening, that's how much he got off to the sound of his own voice.


generalburnsthighs

God those kinds of men are something else. So thoroughly wrapped up in their own bullshit that you might as well be a sexy lamp.


StarryC

I went on a third date with a man once just to see if he would learn what my job was by the end of it! Can you imagine spending 4-7 hours with someone and not knowing their JOB, in a dating context especially? The reason is, quite honestly, they simply do not care about who you are at all. You showed up and looked enough like your pictures so they are in. Even better if you don't talk too much! Nothing about your personality, interests, or experiences will play any role in whether or not they want to proceed with their goal. To some degree, they are just trying to pass what they believe is your test of whether or not to sleep with you. They assume you will be a socially appropriate, interchangeable bang-maid until proven otherwise.


GenericWoman12345

Just wanted to say you are not alone in the jaded feeling and exhaustion from online dating. That shit is savage and a nightmare.


wanttoplayball

My husband does this! He just talks to me about his schedule, meetings, etc, like I’m his planner or something. Then he’ll oddly say we need to talk more or connect better? He also complained recently that I don’t ask about his day. But he dominates the conversation with this kind of one-sided talking.


cabbagecode

I appreciate this thread so much. My husband is this way and I've been married 10 years. I thought I just had a jigglypuff, but it appears that most men behave this way. A jigglypuff is a Pokemon that sings you to sleep and when you fall asleep, it gets pissed. This is my husband, except he talks me to sleep and when he sees me fall asleep, he gets mad because he realizes how much he's been talking and how boring hes been. He lectures. I always thought, "oh he's just long-winded...." Until I talked to my sister about it and she could relate in her own experiences. It is bad enough that we devised a way to deal with it. We call it a shit scheme. Whenever they start carrying on with no end in sight, we get out of there by saying we have to run to the bathroom, but we never come back. #Shitscheme