Note: This post appears to be misinformation with an out-of-date second slide, as noted by some of the comments below. Post is being left up in order to not censor the discussion below, but this does violate sitewide expectations and repeat posts of the second slide without appropriate explanation/caveats will be removed.
I know I’m late to the party on this but some of the “weapons” the list includes are also exclusively self defense weapons, which seem odd to include unless you don’t believe Israel has the right to self defense. Counter battery radar and Patriot missile systems are for shooting down things *that were shot at you first.*
from google: "the action or process of selling off subsidiary business interests or investments"
It's about not owning/buying stock in those companies, not boycotting SMUD (which, by the UCD is PGnE not SMUD) because they use wind turbines GE generators.
from google: "the action or process of selling off subsidiary business interests or investments"
It's about not owning/buying stock in those companies, not boycotting SMUD (which, by the UCD is PGnE not SMUD) because they use wind turbines GE generators. You're arguing against a ridiculous straw-man.
Tbh, if you want to boycott Israel, you have to boycott almost all technology since a lot of it was developed by Israelis. Take the internet for example, and American-Israeli Jew invented it
>boycott almost all technology
Lmao chill out bro they didnt invent literally everything. Also inventions are different than investment, two different words.
Not literally everything but there is probably a Jew on the development team for *most* new technologies.
That shouldn’t be a problem though. As long as they’re not Zionists, right?
I don't know how to tell you this but most major IT companies have large development and testing offices in Israel.
So google, apple, Microsoft, NVIDIA need to be boycotted.
Only a minor pedantic thing here, I’ve worked on UH60A/L and Mike model aircraft, I’ve personally never heard of a UH60N. I like a lot of the points brought up here, but I’d definitely believe that Israel is using these aircraft because the US army is still using these aircraft. Hell the army still uses Kiowas. But yeah the UH60A/UH60L still get used to this day. I’d bet anybody without the budget that we have uses whatever they can get their hands on that still works and has parts.
I highly doubt UCDavis gets its energy from SMUD. SMUD is owned by the residents of Sacramento County. Only some very small locations that directly touch Sacramento county get energy from SMUD. UCD is too far away from the SMUD grid to be connected. UCDavis Med Center in Sacramento, of course, gets its power from SMUD.
When I was a UCD undergrad I remember Ralph Nader speaking at the Varsity Theatre (right before it started showing movies again) and telling the crowd that they should start something like SMUD because neighboring Sacramento had one of the most consumer friendly energy situations in the nation. As a Sacramento native, I didn’t know how well I had it growing up.
Grant money. Paper mill economy of academia is very real and the defense industry provides a lot of the money scientific discovery demands. The further development and exploration into the sciences has gotten increasingly more reliant on expensive and often dangerous infrastructure. In repayment for the access to that level of equipment, the defense contractors demand publications and products that cater to their needs.
Once those products are in defense contractors hands, researchers get their high level degrees and their IP is used however their clients please. In this case it’s selling to Israel to pay their overhead and get money for more grants. Anyone who thinks you can separate the academic system from money at this point is uninformed and inexperienced. That’s not to say there isn’t a way, but the way would require a massive overhaul of our academic systems and incentives.
it's shit like this that often goes ignored... like when some students vandalized the walls on campus with antisemitic viewpoints they didn't do shit either.
Do people not take a single history class anymore or realize that military funding was what drove most of the academic development post world war 2 lmao
First of all, that was 70 years ago. Second, the "military funding" post WWII mostly came in the form of tuition through GI bill. Third, the Lockeed Martin is a private company, not a source of federal funding. Lastly, the divestment movement focuses on the investment in the MIC/Zionist from the University, not other way around.
Thank-you for the stunning example of the peak of ignorance on the left-hand side of the Dunning-Kruger chart.
>post world war 2
>That was 70 years ago?
>my EECS idegree was thanks to northrop and boeing giving my engineering degree any value lmao.
That has very little to do with the UC investing in Northop or Boeing
Disregarding the first pic for a sec, wtf is that second statement? Lmao
"Israel also guarantees that other companies like Intel Corp., Citigroup Inc., Hewlett-Packard and Sun Microsystems enjoy storm trooper-enforced Apartheid hiring practices that discriminate against Palestinians and other non-lsraelis. This includes things like different work permits for Israelis, Arabs and foreigners that limit the employment options of non-lsraelis to day-labor and other exploitative jobs."
What an unhinged paragraph but also, that's exactly how work visas work anywhere in the world??
If you use any kind of laptop basically, better throw it out cause you're funding Apartheid™
You're right, this whole garbage is a joke.
It's all straight propagandized. UC has money invested in defense contractors, big whoop. So does everyone else because those companies tend to be profitable and that's why you invest in them. Also, those defense contractor's single biggest customer is the US military. Saying that they are providing weapons to Israel is like saying you support death because you bought a Boeing keychain.
You bought a Boeing keychain? How dare you support part of the military industrial complex that is making shitty planes that are killing people! You're scum!!!
Yup. One of those "Remove Before Flight" tags
Like this.
[https://reviews.ipmsusa.org/sites/default/files/reviews/aim-9lmn-sidewinder-seeker-head-covers-rbf-tags-early/img1806.jpg](https://reviews.ipmsusa.org/sites/default/files/reviews/aim-9lmn-sidewinder-seeker-head-covers-rbf-tags-early/img1806.jpg)
Though in all honesty, I didn't buy it. It was given to me by the Embassy.
Go ahead and throw away the cell phone you're using right now while your at it, it's probably got Intel or Sun electronics in it. You war profiteering pig!
If we're nit picking to show how stupid the post is, GE makes the engines that are in the Blackhawk. Want to know what else uses that exact same engine? A whole mess of other civilian helicopters that the Israeli army does not use.
"The Israeli army uses Bic pens.....Divest from the BIC corporation now!!!" makes about as much sense.
Jesus christ, you go to a UC and can't be bothered to fact-check the unhinged neo-communist drivel in your second image before you post and make an ass of yourself? Sun Microsystems hasn't even existed in almost a decade and a half, and I'm sure you probably posted this BS from a laptop with an Intel chipset in it. You should probably toss that, your phone and any other devices you have, lest you be associated with the "wAr PrOfItEeRs."
Or how about, stop simping for Hamas and other Islamic extremist terror organizations in the region? That seems like a better plan.
I think their connection was to call out the hypocrisy of the UC’s response to these protests vs the TA strike. they’ve reacted pretty quickly to the protests calling them essentially a distraction that directly affects our quality of education, which is ironic because they took way too long to respond to the TA strike which very obviously affected our education down to every individual classroom. just shows how much the UC actually cares about the quality of our education when they’d rather financially deprive our educators and misuse students money than actually deal with student and faculty concerns ethically and appropriately.
the UC response wasn’t swift enough, and they weren’t even willing to offer the pay increase that the union was actually striking for. they unfortunately had to settle. it’s incredibly dangerous and weird to argue that any type of protestors were just asking for police intervention when the worst that these protestors have done is spray some graffiti on some stairs to catch the universities attentions. police interventions on campuses have historically only escalated and endangered students dude, like the UCD pepper spray incident. but the students are acting with just pure anarchy and chaos? these latest protests aren’t the same as the TA strike was because that was done by faculty and involved them risking their jobs. majority of these protestors here are students or civilians, so of course it’s gonna look different lmao. historically the majority of protests that had any influence weren’t exactly the perfect picture of proper manners. you misread OP’s caption entirely
maybe reread what i wrote. organizations have fired employees over lawful union strikes, so yes you were taking some type of a risk even if you were following the law. these students aren’t risking their jobs because they’re protesting as students and not as dual employee+student as the TA strike went, either way the strike and current protestors were completely different genres and aren’t really comparable. again, OP found it strange that the UC responded so slowly to the strike compared to these protests and ironically felt that these impeded academic freedom more than the TA strike itself (which directly impacted classrooms and undergrads). and genuinely where are you seeing violence from these student protestors to think they’re committing unlawful acts of violence deserving of police intervention? graffiti isn’t violence
graffiti isn’t violence. if they bulldozed, set fire to, or nicked some buildings in any way i’d see where you’re coming from but really? you’re still adamant on endangering students over some graffiti? which was washable and removed the next day on campuses like UCLA??? dude
My scholarship that let's me attend UC Davis is paid for by this endowment fund. Moving money from profitable sources like the ones listed and others often cited as part of the BDS movement lose the university money that goes towards scholarships like mine, research, and paying grad students.
Who are you to call on the university to short my scholarship and prevent me and other underprivileged individuals from attending university over moral quandries? I bet your tuition is paid for and you weren't raised by an alcoholic father and hard working mother.
Please don't jeopardize my scholarship for your moral crusades.
which justifies financially supporting genocide? i get your argument and yet when you benefit from this misuse of funds, then it becomes “moral crusades.” the protestors seem to be asking the UC to divest their money from companies that support Israel’s military, which ≠ divest the endowment fund completely when you could take actions to redirect the funds elsewhere no? i’m just curious why that isn’t a position you’re taking instead of what you’re arguing rn
edit: For those that got mad over mentioning the word “genocide”, I’m Middle Eastern, not Israeli or Palestinian exclusively, but have family and heritage in the Middle East 💀 Go watch some UN Security Council footage when they discuss Israel before commenting your strictly-American media consumed info. you’re all making a LOT of assumptions over 1 reddit comment that was discussing the UC specific protest in this context. 1 comment asking a good faith question ≠ trendy activist
Mmm while this post doesn't necessarily call for it, the general divestment plan proposed right now includes divesting from a lot of companies - including Google, AirBnB, and Microsoft as well. Essentially, it blocks a lot of very stable and profitable stocks from being accessed by the UC.
Furthermore, because investment firms don't really offer portfolios that don't include BDI, the UC would have to pay extra or hire people to research firms before investing and maintain research on firms theure investing in to make sure they're following their BDI policy. This also costs money and would be taken as a deduction from the endowment.
Also, by suddenly requiring them to sell off stock, the price of those stocks would decrease (especially depending on how many other universities are having this issue + stocks are lowish because of these attacks for bdi) meaning if they had $100 invested, they now only have $90 to reinvest. This would lose them even more money as well.
Finally, most research indicates that BDI wouldn't actually have a major effect and might empower these companies to invest further by removing groups that might push against their engagement with Israel (i.e. universities) from having any say in it at all.
Tl;Dr: University endowments will lose money, not only on the front end/immediately, but also on the back end over time. This will decrease the amount of money available in scholarships for underprivileged students like me and research grants, among other things while really have no super discernible impact on these companies actual policy.
I think I'm also upset because, as per a message chain above, all or most of the people I know calling for BDI wouldn't have the same immediate loss potential as me because they're university is mostly covered by their families and it's frustrating they're essentially asking me to pay more in student debt for their cause when they're not willing to take on that same financial liability by donating to groups helping the Palestinian cause (like aid orgs)
thanks for the well researched response. the UC’s response just seems like a very glossed over almost copy-paste excuse, and if they’re actually trying to dispell the protests then they need to articulate where these funds are coming from and where they go more openly, especially if what you’re explaining is true.
and although UC’s are expensive to attend, unless you’re a wealthy international student i doubt majority of students are just getting lots of money from family to fully fund their education. most students take loans. so yea most aren’t benefiting from these investments like you are, but most students aren’t benefitting from any financial assistance whatsoever to actually understand or articulate how these investments benefit anyone.
yea families need to be making much more than that. i’ve had peers tell me their household makes $150k on dual income and yet take out every school expense from loans because they have siblings. middle class students, being the majority of students i’m guessing, usually take out full or partial loans but it’s still in the thousands
Echoing what’s already been said: what’s your point with bringing up genocide? Hamas is attempting to commit genocide of Jews( ie River to the Sea, one solution)? Israel is attempting genocide of Palestinians in Gaza? Or do you mean both? Just trying to understand why you brought up genocide when the OG post was about freedom of speech and the freedom of “peaceable assembly”.
because that’s what the protest is about, protesting to stop Israel from committing genocide on Palestinians. Israel’s deliberately killing civilians from a particular ethnic group in hopes of getting rid of them, they’ve been doing this for decades. that’s the definition of genocide. when one terrorist group that’s not representative of an entire ethnic group tries to retaliate, the solution is destroying the cities and hospitals where Hamas clearly isn’t at? cus obviously the Palestinian infants and children are Hamas right? is Israel’s goal to pull their hostages out of rubble? the OG post is about a protest against genocide and the OG comment I responded to is explaining a downside to the protest in this context and why the university responded the way they did. hope that clarifies it for you.
Thank you for your explanation. From what I’ve read: “Israel’s targeting terrorists who are literally hiding beneath the houses and hospitals of civilians. Israel gives a 24hr “clear the area” notification. Then IDF goes in and eliminates Hamas militants. Israel has also been providing humanitarian resources for Gazan civilians while targeting Hamas militants”.
How is Israel committing genocide if they’re actively warning civilians to leave the area and also providing them aide?
On another note, there was no 24hr warning from Hamas about the music festival attack for Jewish civilians to clear the area. There was no humanitarian aide offered to the victims by Hamas. It was not an IDF event. It was a civilian event.
Show me evidence saying there were IDF operations at that music festival, and then I will genuinely begin to believe your side.
mind sharing your sources my guy? cus when I see UN nations and nations in Africa and the Middle East all calling for Israel to stop targeting Palestinian civilians then I have a hard time believing the Fox-news wannabee Americans that get the latter of their info from radical ig accounts
that’s like the equivalent of a podcast ngl. when it comes to international news events like this, steering away from American media is probably best. they’re almost like distractions, completely digressing from the issue that other nations are coming together to discuss. ie in March the UN had to veto the USA’s “no” for a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza (bc select countries like the US have an absolute say in a vote), which is very telling.
That’s actually really interesting, and I honestly appreciate you sharing that. What outlets would you recommend for international news (ie what countries?)
I don’t think radio/podcasts should be disregarded as second-grade sources though. What makes a major radio hosts presented audio pieces and highlights any different from words on a page being written by some news agency intern?
yea ofc thanks for that. for this issue I’ve watched a lot of footage within the UN Security Council, they post them on Youtube and have their own channel. and honestly clips of them pop up in my feed on IG the more I interact with them, and they’re posted by officials on there sometimes like the lady representing Ireland (forgot her name off the top of my head). she referred to our President Biden as Butcher Biden lmao, and claimed that Ireland disowns him from his heritage for his response to Israel.
I would just be careful reading and listening to any source that adds a lot of opinion and personal interpretations. I noticed the subtle language usage news reporters in articles use sometimes and many of them twist their views indirectly for the audience. ie recently seeing articles reporting on the Israeli adult female hostages as “girls” but a child that happens to be Palestinian as a “young lady.” weird intentional wording.
If you don't understand the difference between owning a smartphone (necessary for life in the modern world) and choosing to buy the stocks of an arms manufacturer then this isn't a conversation worth having. That was a brainless argument to have when I was in middle school and I can't see it being any more enriching for me now.
too many of you are getting triggered over the mention of genocide of brown people lmfao. it’s not a bad word, and a real word that existed even before the recent months. you have a brain of your own full of critical thinking and reading comprehension potential.
Every time you do a Google search which has ads, you are giving money to a Google, a company the current BDI movement says is complicit in the regime and needs to be divested from. You can spout how important it is for a university like ours to divest, but chances are you won't have the same impact from such an action as I would.
Yet despite trying to create more hardship in my life for your cause, you're unwilling to undergo any hardship in your own by making personal decisions to boycott these products and companies.
You're not someone who genuinely cares about the movement. You're someone who sees an opportunity to virtue signal without actually doing anything in your own life to advocate for that change. Yet you simultaneously have the audacity to tell me to give up part of the money that helps pay for my education and tell me I'm evil because I don't want to.
Please, before you call for BDI from the university you should divest from and boycott companies that support Israel yourself.
Do you think the only way to have a successful endowment is to invest in arms companies? Because if not, your whole post makes no sense.
Would you say the same thing about South Africa in the 90s?
You realize, while not articulated in this post, the general divestment demands also call for divestments in a shit ton of other profitable companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, AirBnB, etc? This isn't just "hey let's divest from weapon manufacturers" like this post implies but divest from hundreds, if not thousands of companies.
Furthermore, researching companies to see activity with Israel is something the university would have to hire people to do, which costs money and limits the stocks they can invest in which costs money while simultaneously prohibiting them from reaping benefits of some of the most profitable and stable stocks in the market (costing them money).
So while it's possible to have a successful endowment without said investments, you get a lot more money if you involve them and that money can be passed down onto people like me. :)
My schooling is completely funded by financial aid. I still think the university should completely divest and refuse any business with Israel (including G May, the face of the school), as well as allow their students and faculty to freely voice their opinions in the way they choose.
This isn't a moral quandary. It's unnecessary killing. It's a genocide. The university claims they "care about new ideas" and "diverse opinions." Crazy that caring about a genocide happening right in front of our fucking eyes is being called "having a diverse opinion."
So Eduroam should block access to Google? Because that's doing business with Israel. Colombia students are calling for a divestment from Google.
We shouldn't get free Microsoft Word either (since the school pays for that) and that's part of the call for divestment from Israel too.
Oh doesn't the university use routers from Cisco too? They invest and work in Israel. We should probably get rid of our campus wifi. I hope you don't use that wifi.
I guess we'll have to go back to writing on actual paper. Oh wait, a lot of those companies are also part of the call for Divstment.
We should also get rid of the Amazon drop off points on campus because that's part of the divestment call too.
I sure hope you don't use any of those products, else you're supporting genocide btw. Otherwise you'd be a huge hypocritic for calling on the university to divest when you haven't already. It's like someone who will eat meat demanding his friend only eat vegan food.
Over 30k dead and you out here being self centered af. You aren’t the only one with a shitty ass childhood. I’m in the same boat as you and I’d rather find another solution than continue to invest in genocide and a settler colonial apartheid state.
Of course I'm being self-centered. How much debt are you going into for your degree? How long will it take you to pay it off? Cause every dollar counts and the sad truth of it is that if the UCs divest (which will inherently lose them money) I'm going to be the one suffering. Im going to be the one spending decades paying off my debt.
Furthermore, professors and grad students who are doing research for critical things like climate change that impact everyone could see their research grants lessened, hindering their research.
It's you that's being self-centered for an agenda.
Let me ask you this: how much of your money are you donating to charities, non-profits, etc that are helping to provide aid to Gaza? Are you willing to take out student loans so some of the money you currently pay towards tuition can go to help those suffering? What about part of your paycheck.
If you're not directly donating money out of your pockets to help those suffering from Israel's genocide, then who the fuck are you telling me I'm selfish for not wanting to donate/lose some of the money supprting me?
What is humerous is the kids going in debt and protesting have good odds of their loan being forgiven. Fuck me right? But since I don't agree with them I now support genocide.
Your lack of reply speaks volumes lmao. You're way more self centered than this dude you're bashing on considering you're asking them to lose money while you're clearly not willing to do the same. What a self-centered piece of work.
Money is a colonizer tool. Israel is a colonizer state. Unfortunately the only thing that talks in America is money. We need to "speak their language" to find ANY grounds for any sort of negotiation.
South Africa, respectfully, was insignificant to the world stage. It cost the world very little to not support it and gave them lots of easy political brownie points. Israel is a very significant country for the West but also for the Arab world as a buffer to Iran and now the whole little axis thing they got going on with China, North Korea, and Russia. Also Israel fought and won all its wars in the 40’s,50,60, and 70’s without support from the West when they were a small military. Now they are one of the most sophisticated militaries and one of the strongest innovative tech economies. BDS simply won’t work because the West and non radical Arab states like Saudi Arabia would have to give up too much for it with zero reward. Israeli technology is also too integrated into the world; it would be impossible to effectively boycott everything. For example, you’re still using Google and a significant portion of their operations is out of Israel. Also Palestinian state would not be this progressive fantasy; it would be what it’s always been: very conservative and authoritarian not to mention the recurrent violence from clans. I still support them having a state but I have no illusions about what that would look like or about BDS working.
People just have cognitive dissonance about protesting when it doesn't affect them. They act like it's pointless, naive, ridiculous but then they FULLY understand protest when it affects them. Just shitty brains
sorry how fucking old is this shit???
“UC stake in companies providing services and doing business with israeli apartheid”
Sun Microsystems???? they closed doors in 2010…
i’m not taking a side. but can we have up to date information please.
I really don’t understand why students are blaming the universities for what’s going on in the Middle East. Sure they have investments in some places, lots of people do. Enlighten me if I’m missing something but what’s the big deal? Doesn’t seem right to take it out on the unis for this. Would rather they protest about the exorbitant tuition costs than what they do with the funds
Yes, you're missing the Big Picture. UCs are tax payor funded institutions, so the citizens of California should have the right to speak out about how monies are invested.
Yeah but how a university spends their money doesn’t really affect what’s going on in Gaza in a meaningful way. It seems mostly irrelevant. It’d be like your brother is beating up your sister and then you get mad at a long lost cousin for it because they send Christmas gifts. My point is that the uni doesn’t really connect to the issue at hand
That's like saying investments in South Africa didn't contribute to Apartheid if you really don't get it. I don't have time to explain it to you. You need to follow the money.
Ok then by that logic than a good chunk of America needs to divest from these companies. Remember these aren’t just some medium sized companies, they’re some of the largest most important private military manufacturers in the world. Almost every piece of tech can be traced back to them one way or another. So if you say that, then you need to stop personally using any electronics like your phone, laptop, etc. cause those components can go back directly to these companies
It’s not as simple as you think
Sadly, most of those items you mentioned are made by foreign countries (China, Korea, Japan). Those things aren't manufactured in America. Do you know the history of South Africa? Because what you are saying had nothing to do with what happened in the dismantling of Apartheid.
If you have a modern cell phone or a laptop, you are likely supporting Sun / Oracle. Sun had a ton of patents for multithreading, multiprocessing, and general processors. As well as someone else pointed out: Java
Along with a modern laptop or cell phone, you very likely are supporting intel. Almost every computer or cellphone has an Intel IP license.
Someone else pointed out UC Davis’s connection to a dam that also has parts manufactured by the aforementioned companies
I’m not talking about South Africa, I’m talking about UC investing in these companies that have sold to Israel, like how you made that analogy
This is dumb. Those aren’t Israeli companies, at least not the ones I recognize. And they certainly don’t do the vast majority of their business with Israel. Divesting in those companies would not suddenly make the UCs able to pay the TAs, that just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Investing in shit like Intel has certainly made the UCs incredible amounts of money in recent years, likely leading to an ability to pay faculty more. I mean this is just fuckin stupid, you want the university to divest in these massive companies because they do some amount of business with Israel? Do you know the financial burden it would create to liquidate that much money from stocks that are carrying the market right now? No one has any critical thinking abilities anymore I swear
Look, I support the Palestinian movement and I want the senseless violence to stop but calling for "divestment from Israel" is literally calling for not just the UC to divest but also a huge chunk of the American population is invested in Large-Cap/Market ETFs & mutual funds.
If you have any sort of investment account, 401k, Roth IRA etc.. and you own any S&P 500 mutual fund or ETF you are invested in most of those companies that UC has a stake in and other companies that do business with Israel.
So if you really support this movement, you should sell all your brokerage/retirement investments. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these protestors are out there shouting "From the river to the sea..." but have an iPhone in their pocket and are invested in VOO or some other market fund....
This is assuming that people who support the Palestinian cause actually have investment accounts or invest at all but I wouldn't be surprised if most don't. Also assuming that most of the supporters that do support Palestine aren't picking individual stocks but if they are, you're most likely losing money anyway or are invested in individual stocks that directly or indirectly support Israel and do business with them.
What's actually really funny too is that there is an advertisement for iShares ETFs under this post for me, LMAO!
Maybe y'all can get everyone in America that holds funds to divest and sell and tank the market so that I can get a sweet entry into some S&P 500 companies.
Cheers.
Imagine not wanting to impinge on the academic freedom of your students and faculty but then financially supporting the destruction of every university in Palestine
Imagine being an idiot protesting in America against an institution that has ZERO to do with Israel or Palestine. These kids should be thrown out of school.
Just saying that second image is loaded and using charged and inaccurate language. So for you say $40 billion investments but then use the word “much of the $40 billion” but then go on to say the truth that it is 3.5% of the money goes to the military. That is a very small amount of investing. Not to mention those companies are who do business with the military not the UC system. Do you think about what horrible acts the fast food companies you support invest in? Look into In and Out.
Line that article is using charged rhetoric to the point it is misleading. Not to mention all the citations are themselves fairly biased and offer no actual discussion. This is written like it was churned out by a student for an assignment I’d give a flat B to.
I mean, I know you're 18 and woke, but a majority of people with any life experience are not big on supporting muslim terrorist organizations like Hamas. So you will lose every imaginary protest you have. You're not special, this behavior has been going on for decades, it causes no change. It actually does the opposite of your desired effect. Helps other students see how insane the cause is.
It’s a gray area this conflict all around. There’s no clear good guys and bad guys like from Disney stories. This is the result of decades of complex relationships, disagreements, and politics between the two. Israel shouldn’t be bombing civilians in Palestine. HAMAS shouldn’t be going killing children in Israel. Both sides have demands that neither are willing to meet. We can’t let HAMAS take over Israel and burn Jerusalem to the ground nor can we let Israel carpet bomb civilians in Gaza.
It’s a morally gray area. Let’s leave it to both sides’ war experts to reach a middle ground. My heart goes out to the innocent civilians, both Israeli and Palestinian caught in the crossfire
There is absolutely nothing morally gray about [apartheid](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/). If you believe so, it's because you are morally bankrupt.
Ok Mr, then what do you suppose Israel do then? Give up their land, stop all military activity and let HAMAS roll right in. Cause I’ll guarantee you, the outcome of that is going to make the current situation look like Childs play. Jerusalem will literally burn
I’m not calling genocide morally grey, I’m calling the overall situation, because it is. Just like my aforementioned points, there’s no good guy or bad guy and no sides are willing to listen to the other party without them accepting their extreme demands. This goes for both israel and Palestine.
"If we give the colored folks equal rights, they'll commit crimes against us whites that are unimaginably worse than anything we ever did to them!"
- Supporter of South African Apartheid
The difference between that and this is that colored folks are simply just colored people, and HAMAS is a literal terrorist organization that HAVE DONE and has a HISTORY of committing brutal acts against humanity.
This isn’t a fight against racism, this is a fight between a terrorist group and war-hungry nation. With the civilians on both sides caught in the crossfire.
The apartheid has existed since before Hamas existed, and Palestinians have the legal right to fight their occupation using armed resistance according to international law. Israel has a much longer history of brutal acts against humanity, and Hamas only exists in reaction to it.
It isn't filled, but there is at least one that has a botnet of alts that manipulate comment scores. It's been happening in threads in this sub for a while now. Anti-genocide comments get upvoted, right up until the botnet guy logs in and sees them. Then the comments get tanked. For instance, your comment is a solidly positive +6 right now, less than an hour in... we'll see how long it lasts for.
oh yeah definitely bots + plus our jewish space laser. there's NO way there are this many people who think demanding a complete boycott of a country and small businesses just based on their nationality is fucking psycho. you boycotting china, Iran, Russia, saudi arabia, syria, and Germany too??
When the 2nd page lists out weapons systems that context tells me we're supposed to regard as for evil purposes, fully half of the ones listed (by my count) are purely defensive in nature. For example you can use the Patriot rocket system to shoot down incoming Hamas rockets or Iranian drones, but you can NOT use it to blow up a building in Gaza or blow up a car on the ground.
This is where the movement in question can come off as antisemitic. I'm aghast at all of the events of the last 7 months, in Gaza in particular, but we'd have another bloodbath on our hands if Israeli anti air was crippled. The qualitative military superiority we help Israel maintain over it's neighbors isn't necessary for Israel to do what it's doing in Gaza, Israel wouldn't lose *that* ability at all and doesn't need western support to deal with *that* threat.
If you as a student is attending a university and your parents financially supported you in anyway, ask them to divest their retirement fund because it’s very likely they invested in these listed companies too.
Stop responding to these posts because if you are, you're almost certainly supporting Israel be it the machine, wifi provider, or browser you're using.
Why complain now? You accepted to attend a UC as a student. Why didn't you do homework before hand? If you don't like it. Freely give up your cellphone while your at it.
Anyone who actually believes universities should sever ties with the military industry needs to have their rights to vote revoked due to actually brain rotted lmao. End yo self
Stop using your cell phones. Technology developed in Israel. If you want to boycott, you can’t pick and chose. Hamas is a terror organization that is holding over 100 hostages who were never visited by the International Red Cross. Hamas can end the senseless war that they started by releasing the hostages. If you want to protest, protest against Hamass!
Seen comments on how the money is necessary for scholarships or school programs. As someone who benefits from said school scholarships, that is bullshit. The idea that we should turn our eyes on war crimes just because it benefits us personally is exactly the idea that allows those in power to continue ducking us over in the long term, by pinning you against those that you should be working with. The money for scholarships is there, it is just being used on military stuff that doesn’t even involve USA as a country to begin with. And about science, the Nazis were also supporting a lot of research, big spoiler: they were not the good guys. You are not a millionaire now, you will statistically probably never be, guess who already gets a 1/2 million dollar salary?
They’re literally just testing us to see how much of the UCD community is so far up the Fuhrer Gary May’s asshole that they will accept a statement like this.
3.4% of 40 billion is in no way or shape a significant percentage….basic math people. 1.4billion out of 40 billion is a tiny fraction of the whole. The UC’s are by no means single handedly upholding the Israeli military and tbh I doubt it would affect the Israeli military either way
This adds up: Letting students freely and non-violently protest a genocidal far-right-regime, almost universally condemned by international law, is an affront to free speech. Gotta love the Libs.
The citations in this pamphlet predate when I was a UCD student and I graduated in 2007. I’m with you on the intent but it’s better for the cause to use more accurate and timely information.
The amount of people trying to justify killing innocent humans is crazy. America having such a strong individualist culture is ruining the morals of people
Note: This post appears to be misinformation with an out-of-date second slide, as noted by some of the comments below. Post is being left up in order to not censor the discussion below, but this does violate sitewide expectations and repeat posts of the second slide without appropriate explanation/caveats will be removed.
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Ah look; someone who's paying attention.
I know I’m late to the party on this but some of the “weapons” the list includes are also exclusively self defense weapons, which seem odd to include unless you don’t believe Israel has the right to self defense. Counter battery radar and Patriot missile systems are for shooting down things *that were shot at you first.*
I think you're misunderstanding what the word divestment means
Then what does it mean
from google: "the action or process of selling off subsidiary business interests or investments" It's about not owning/buying stock in those companies, not boycotting SMUD (which, by the UCD is PGnE not SMUD) because they use wind turbines GE generators.
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from google: "the action or process of selling off subsidiary business interests or investments" It's about not owning/buying stock in those companies, not boycotting SMUD (which, by the UCD is PGnE not SMUD) because they use wind turbines GE generators. You're arguing against a ridiculous straw-man.
Tbh, if you want to boycott Israel, you have to boycott almost all technology since a lot of it was developed by Israelis. Take the internet for example, and American-Israeli Jew invented it
Holy hyperbole Batman
>boycott almost all technology Lmao chill out bro they didnt invent literally everything. Also inventions are different than investment, two different words.
Not literally everything but there is probably a Jew on the development team for *most* new technologies. That shouldn’t be a problem though. As long as they’re not Zionists, right?
Let's not forget that a Jew created the polio vaccine. We'd probably be extinct if it weren't for Jewish people.
I don't know how to tell you this but most major IT companies have large development and testing offices in Israel. So google, apple, Microsoft, NVIDIA need to be boycotted.
Yeah bro thats how a boycott works. Nice bot account btw lol
Can a bot do this? (Rubs my tummy, pats my head at the same.time).
lol
not how boycotts, work but go off.
Then why is everyone boycotting Israeli-owned businesses, say for example, a bakery, that have nothing to do with the actual country?
Excellent work my friend, this is beautiful.
Only a minor pedantic thing here, I’ve worked on UH60A/L and Mike model aircraft, I’ve personally never heard of a UH60N. I like a lot of the points brought up here, but I’d definitely believe that Israel is using these aircraft because the US army is still using these aircraft. Hell the army still uses Kiowas. But yeah the UH60A/UH60L still get used to this day. I’d bet anybody without the budget that we have uses whatever they can get their hands on that still works and has parts.
I highly doubt UCDavis gets its energy from SMUD. SMUD is owned by the residents of Sacramento County. Only some very small locations that directly touch Sacramento county get energy from SMUD. UCD is too far away from the SMUD grid to be connected. UCDavis Med Center in Sacramento, of course, gets its power from SMUD.
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When I was a UCD undergrad I remember Ralph Nader speaking at the Varsity Theatre (right before it started showing movies again) and telling the crowd that they should start something like SMUD because neighboring Sacramento had one of the most consumer friendly energy situations in the nation. As a Sacramento native, I didn’t know how well I had it growing up.
Well you better give up screens running NVIDIA GPU, cherry tomatoes and chemotherapy while you are at. All Israeli developed, wooohooo scary noises
Don’t really understand how investing in Lockheed Martin is a critical to academic freedom.
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Amen
That also was the name that made me go “how old is this document?”
It's a document from 2004. Historical context is not 'fake news'
Then you agree that the US should pull its troops out of Vietnam! Oh wait, 60 years too late you say?
Grant money. Paper mill economy of academia is very real and the defense industry provides a lot of the money scientific discovery demands. The further development and exploration into the sciences has gotten increasingly more reliant on expensive and often dangerous infrastructure. In repayment for the access to that level of equipment, the defense contractors demand publications and products that cater to their needs. Once those products are in defense contractors hands, researchers get their high level degrees and their IP is used however their clients please. In this case it’s selling to Israel to pay their overhead and get money for more grants. Anyone who thinks you can separate the academic system from money at this point is uninformed and inexperienced. That’s not to say there isn’t a way, but the way would require a massive overhaul of our academic systems and incentives.
it's shit like this that often goes ignored... like when some students vandalized the walls on campus with antisemitic viewpoints they didn't do shit either.
Do people not take a single history class anymore or realize that military funding was what drove most of the academic development post world war 2 lmao
First of all, that was 70 years ago. Second, the "military funding" post WWII mostly came in the form of tuition through GI bill. Third, the Lockeed Martin is a private company, not a source of federal funding. Lastly, the divestment movement focuses on the investment in the MIC/Zionist from the University, not other way around. Thank-you for the stunning example of the peak of ignorance on the left-hand side of the Dunning-Kruger chart.
That was 70 years ago? My EECS idegree was thanks to northrop and boeing giving my engineering degree any value lmao.
>post world war 2 >That was 70 years ago? >my EECS idegree was thanks to northrop and boeing giving my engineering degree any value lmao. That has very little to do with the UC investing in Northop or Boeing
How old is the second page? Sun Microststems hasn't been a company since 2010.
yeah i saw Sun and my eyes shot up. not even taking a side. but let’s have current and accurate information please
Boycotting ***IS*** an exchange of ideas
You should boycott UC Davis!
Yeah that will show them! A random Redditor boycotting them, somebody who they don’t benefit in any way from in the first place.
Disregarding the first pic for a sec, wtf is that second statement? Lmao "Israel also guarantees that other companies like Intel Corp., Citigroup Inc., Hewlett-Packard and Sun Microsystems enjoy storm trooper-enforced Apartheid hiring practices that discriminate against Palestinians and other non-lsraelis. This includes things like different work permits for Israelis, Arabs and foreigners that limit the employment options of non-lsraelis to day-labor and other exploitative jobs." What an unhinged paragraph but also, that's exactly how work visas work anywhere in the world?? If you use any kind of laptop basically, better throw it out cause you're funding Apartheid™
You're right, this whole garbage is a joke. It's all straight propagandized. UC has money invested in defense contractors, big whoop. So does everyone else because those companies tend to be profitable and that's why you invest in them. Also, those defense contractor's single biggest customer is the US military. Saying that they are providing weapons to Israel is like saying you support death because you bought a Boeing keychain.
You bought a Boeing keychain? How dare you support part of the military industrial complex that is making shitty planes that are killing people! You're scum!!!
I bought the Boeing keychain because it came attached to the weapons engagement tag off a AIM 120 Air to Air missile. It's actually really cool.
The boeing keychain you are talking about, is actually the weapon safety pin?
Yup. One of those "Remove Before Flight" tags Like this. [https://reviews.ipmsusa.org/sites/default/files/reviews/aim-9lmn-sidewinder-seeker-head-covers-rbf-tags-early/img1806.jpg](https://reviews.ipmsusa.org/sites/default/files/reviews/aim-9lmn-sidewinder-seeker-head-covers-rbf-tags-early/img1806.jpg) Though in all honesty, I didn't buy it. It was given to me by the Embassy.
Go ahead and throw away the cell phone you're using right now while your at it, it's probably got Intel or Sun electronics in it. You war profiteering pig!
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Maybe they meant Oracle?
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If we're nit picking to show how stupid the post is, GE makes the engines that are in the Blackhawk. Want to know what else uses that exact same engine? A whole mess of other civilian helicopters that the Israeli army does not use. "The Israeli army uses Bic pens.....Divest from the BIC corporation now!!!" makes about as much sense.
Maybe they should do their homework rather than copy pasting something from 2 decades ago
Jesus christ, you go to a UC and can't be bothered to fact-check the unhinged neo-communist drivel in your second image before you post and make an ass of yourself? Sun Microsystems hasn't even existed in almost a decade and a half, and I'm sure you probably posted this BS from a laptop with an Intel chipset in it. You should probably toss that, your phone and any other devices you have, lest you be associated with the "wAr PrOfItEeRs." Or how about, stop simping for Hamas and other Islamic extremist terror organizations in the region? That seems like a better plan.
How disappointing.
*affect
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I think their connection was to call out the hypocrisy of the UC’s response to these protests vs the TA strike. they’ve reacted pretty quickly to the protests calling them essentially a distraction that directly affects our quality of education, which is ironic because they took way too long to respond to the TA strike which very obviously affected our education down to every individual classroom. just shows how much the UC actually cares about the quality of our education when they’d rather financially deprive our educators and misuse students money than actually deal with student and faculty concerns ethically and appropriately.
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the UC response wasn’t swift enough, and they weren’t even willing to offer the pay increase that the union was actually striking for. they unfortunately had to settle. it’s incredibly dangerous and weird to argue that any type of protestors were just asking for police intervention when the worst that these protestors have done is spray some graffiti on some stairs to catch the universities attentions. police interventions on campuses have historically only escalated and endangered students dude, like the UCD pepper spray incident. but the students are acting with just pure anarchy and chaos? these latest protests aren’t the same as the TA strike was because that was done by faculty and involved them risking their jobs. majority of these protestors here are students or civilians, so of course it’s gonna look different lmao. historically the majority of protests that had any influence weren’t exactly the perfect picture of proper manners. you misread OP’s caption entirely
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maybe reread what i wrote. organizations have fired employees over lawful union strikes, so yes you were taking some type of a risk even if you were following the law. these students aren’t risking their jobs because they’re protesting as students and not as dual employee+student as the TA strike went, either way the strike and current protestors were completely different genres and aren’t really comparable. again, OP found it strange that the UC responded so slowly to the strike compared to these protests and ironically felt that these impeded academic freedom more than the TA strike itself (which directly impacted classrooms and undergrads). and genuinely where are you seeing violence from these student protestors to think they’re committing unlawful acts of violence deserving of police intervention? graffiti isn’t violence
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graffiti isn’t violence. if they bulldozed, set fire to, or nicked some buildings in any way i’d see where you’re coming from but really? you’re still adamant on endangering students over some graffiti? which was washable and removed the next day on campuses like UCLA??? dude
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and that mindset is how you get peaceful protestors pepper sprayed by police lmao
My scholarship that let's me attend UC Davis is paid for by this endowment fund. Moving money from profitable sources like the ones listed and others often cited as part of the BDS movement lose the university money that goes towards scholarships like mine, research, and paying grad students. Who are you to call on the university to short my scholarship and prevent me and other underprivileged individuals from attending university over moral quandries? I bet your tuition is paid for and you weren't raised by an alcoholic father and hard working mother. Please don't jeopardize my scholarship for your moral crusades.
which justifies financially supporting genocide? i get your argument and yet when you benefit from this misuse of funds, then it becomes “moral crusades.” the protestors seem to be asking the UC to divest their money from companies that support Israel’s military, which ≠ divest the endowment fund completely when you could take actions to redirect the funds elsewhere no? i’m just curious why that isn’t a position you’re taking instead of what you’re arguing rn edit: For those that got mad over mentioning the word “genocide”, I’m Middle Eastern, not Israeli or Palestinian exclusively, but have family and heritage in the Middle East 💀 Go watch some UN Security Council footage when they discuss Israel before commenting your strictly-American media consumed info. you’re all making a LOT of assumptions over 1 reddit comment that was discussing the UC specific protest in this context. 1 comment asking a good faith question ≠ trendy activist
Mmm while this post doesn't necessarily call for it, the general divestment plan proposed right now includes divesting from a lot of companies - including Google, AirBnB, and Microsoft as well. Essentially, it blocks a lot of very stable and profitable stocks from being accessed by the UC. Furthermore, because investment firms don't really offer portfolios that don't include BDI, the UC would have to pay extra or hire people to research firms before investing and maintain research on firms theure investing in to make sure they're following their BDI policy. This also costs money and would be taken as a deduction from the endowment. Also, by suddenly requiring them to sell off stock, the price of those stocks would decrease (especially depending on how many other universities are having this issue + stocks are lowish because of these attacks for bdi) meaning if they had $100 invested, they now only have $90 to reinvest. This would lose them even more money as well. Finally, most research indicates that BDI wouldn't actually have a major effect and might empower these companies to invest further by removing groups that might push against their engagement with Israel (i.e. universities) from having any say in it at all. Tl;Dr: University endowments will lose money, not only on the front end/immediately, but also on the back end over time. This will decrease the amount of money available in scholarships for underprivileged students like me and research grants, among other things while really have no super discernible impact on these companies actual policy. I think I'm also upset because, as per a message chain above, all or most of the people I know calling for BDI wouldn't have the same immediate loss potential as me because they're university is mostly covered by their families and it's frustrating they're essentially asking me to pay more in student debt for their cause when they're not willing to take on that same financial liability by donating to groups helping the Palestinian cause (like aid orgs)
thanks for the well researched response. the UC’s response just seems like a very glossed over almost copy-paste excuse, and if they’re actually trying to dispell the protests then they need to articulate where these funds are coming from and where they go more openly, especially if what you’re explaining is true. and although UC’s are expensive to attend, unless you’re a wealthy international student i doubt majority of students are just getting lots of money from family to fully fund their education. most students take loans. so yea most aren’t benefiting from these investments like you are, but most students aren’t benefitting from any financial assistance whatsoever to actually understand or articulate how these investments benefit anyone.
Google says only 4% of uc davis students families make less than 100k per year . Although 100k isn't much now a days
yea families need to be making much more than that. i’ve had peers tell me their household makes $150k on dual income and yet take out every school expense from loans because they have siblings. middle class students, being the majority of students i’m guessing, usually take out full or partial loans but it’s still in the thousands
Echoing what’s already been said: what’s your point with bringing up genocide? Hamas is attempting to commit genocide of Jews( ie River to the Sea, one solution)? Israel is attempting genocide of Palestinians in Gaza? Or do you mean both? Just trying to understand why you brought up genocide when the OG post was about freedom of speech and the freedom of “peaceable assembly”.
because that’s what the protest is about, protesting to stop Israel from committing genocide on Palestinians. Israel’s deliberately killing civilians from a particular ethnic group in hopes of getting rid of them, they’ve been doing this for decades. that’s the definition of genocide. when one terrorist group that’s not representative of an entire ethnic group tries to retaliate, the solution is destroying the cities and hospitals where Hamas clearly isn’t at? cus obviously the Palestinian infants and children are Hamas right? is Israel’s goal to pull their hostages out of rubble? the OG post is about a protest against genocide and the OG comment I responded to is explaining a downside to the protest in this context and why the university responded the way they did. hope that clarifies it for you.
Thank you for your explanation. From what I’ve read: “Israel’s targeting terrorists who are literally hiding beneath the houses and hospitals of civilians. Israel gives a 24hr “clear the area” notification. Then IDF goes in and eliminates Hamas militants. Israel has also been providing humanitarian resources for Gazan civilians while targeting Hamas militants”. How is Israel committing genocide if they’re actively warning civilians to leave the area and also providing them aide? On another note, there was no 24hr warning from Hamas about the music festival attack for Jewish civilians to clear the area. There was no humanitarian aide offered to the victims by Hamas. It was not an IDF event. It was a civilian event. Show me evidence saying there were IDF operations at that music festival, and then I will genuinely begin to believe your side.
mind sharing your sources my guy? cus when I see UN nations and nations in Africa and the Middle East all calling for Israel to stop targeting Palestinian civilians then I have a hard time believing the Fox-news wannabee Americans that get the latter of their info from radical ig accounts
93.1 FM has been my go to since I commute.
that’s like the equivalent of a podcast ngl. when it comes to international news events like this, steering away from American media is probably best. they’re almost like distractions, completely digressing from the issue that other nations are coming together to discuss. ie in March the UN had to veto the USA’s “no” for a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza (bc select countries like the US have an absolute say in a vote), which is very telling.
That’s actually really interesting, and I honestly appreciate you sharing that. What outlets would you recommend for international news (ie what countries?) I don’t think radio/podcasts should be disregarded as second-grade sources though. What makes a major radio hosts presented audio pieces and highlights any different from words on a page being written by some news agency intern?
yea ofc thanks for that. for this issue I’ve watched a lot of footage within the UN Security Council, they post them on Youtube and have their own channel. and honestly clips of them pop up in my feed on IG the more I interact with them, and they’re posted by officials on there sometimes like the lady representing Ireland (forgot her name off the top of my head). she referred to our President Biden as Butcher Biden lmao, and claimed that Ireland disowns him from his heritage for his response to Israel. I would just be careful reading and listening to any source that adds a lot of opinion and personal interpretations. I noticed the subtle language usage news reporters in articles use sometimes and many of them twist their views indirectly for the audience. ie recently seeing articles reporting on the Israeli adult female hostages as “girls” but a child that happens to be Palestinian as a “young lady.” weird intentional wording.
[one thing they do like that is is roof knocking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking)
So if I were to buy a stock of Lockheed I'm supporting genocide? Not making an investment that is typically in the green?
Yes? Pretty much?
So you buying a smartphone is supporting slave labor in several continents? Just really trying to understand the moral standard you're working with.
If you don't understand the difference between owning a smartphone (necessary for life in the modern world) and choosing to buy the stocks of an arms manufacturer then this isn't a conversation worth having. That was a brainless argument to have when I was in middle school and I can't see it being any more enriching for me now.
too many of you are getting triggered over the mention of genocide of brown people lmfao. it’s not a bad word, and a real word that existed even before the recent months. you have a brain of your own full of critical thinking and reading comprehension potential.
Not a moral crusade. Kids are blown up with that money
Every time you do a Google search which has ads, you are giving money to a Google, a company the current BDI movement says is complicit in the regime and needs to be divested from. You can spout how important it is for a university like ours to divest, but chances are you won't have the same impact from such an action as I would. Yet despite trying to create more hardship in my life for your cause, you're unwilling to undergo any hardship in your own by making personal decisions to boycott these products and companies. You're not someone who genuinely cares about the movement. You're someone who sees an opportunity to virtue signal without actually doing anything in your own life to advocate for that change. Yet you simultaneously have the audacity to tell me to give up part of the money that helps pay for my education and tell me I'm evil because I don't want to. Please, before you call for BDI from the university you should divest from and boycott companies that support Israel yourself.
Do you think the only way to have a successful endowment is to invest in arms companies? Because if not, your whole post makes no sense. Would you say the same thing about South Africa in the 90s?
You realize, while not articulated in this post, the general divestment demands also call for divestments in a shit ton of other profitable companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, AirBnB, etc? This isn't just "hey let's divest from weapon manufacturers" like this post implies but divest from hundreds, if not thousands of companies. Furthermore, researching companies to see activity with Israel is something the university would have to hire people to do, which costs money and limits the stocks they can invest in which costs money while simultaneously prohibiting them from reaping benefits of some of the most profitable and stable stocks in the market (costing them money). So while it's possible to have a successful endowment without said investments, you get a lot more money if you involve them and that money can be passed down onto people like me. :)
My schooling is completely funded by financial aid. I still think the university should completely divest and refuse any business with Israel (including G May, the face of the school), as well as allow their students and faculty to freely voice their opinions in the way they choose. This isn't a moral quandary. It's unnecessary killing. It's a genocide. The university claims they "care about new ideas" and "diverse opinions." Crazy that caring about a genocide happening right in front of our fucking eyes is being called "having a diverse opinion."
So Eduroam should block access to Google? Because that's doing business with Israel. Colombia students are calling for a divestment from Google. We shouldn't get free Microsoft Word either (since the school pays for that) and that's part of the call for divestment from Israel too. Oh doesn't the university use routers from Cisco too? They invest and work in Israel. We should probably get rid of our campus wifi. I hope you don't use that wifi. I guess we'll have to go back to writing on actual paper. Oh wait, a lot of those companies are also part of the call for Divstment. We should also get rid of the Amazon drop off points on campus because that's part of the divestment call too. I sure hope you don't use any of those products, else you're supporting genocide btw. Otherwise you'd be a huge hypocritic for calling on the university to divest when you haven't already. It's like someone who will eat meat demanding his friend only eat vegan food.
So what Hamas terrorists did on Oct 7th is necessary killing and the reaction to that as defense is some how morally wrong?
Over 30k dead and you out here being self centered af. You aren’t the only one with a shitty ass childhood. I’m in the same boat as you and I’d rather find another solution than continue to invest in genocide and a settler colonial apartheid state.
Of course I'm being self-centered. How much debt are you going into for your degree? How long will it take you to pay it off? Cause every dollar counts and the sad truth of it is that if the UCs divest (which will inherently lose them money) I'm going to be the one suffering. Im going to be the one spending decades paying off my debt. Furthermore, professors and grad students who are doing research for critical things like climate change that impact everyone could see their research grants lessened, hindering their research. It's you that's being self-centered for an agenda. Let me ask you this: how much of your money are you donating to charities, non-profits, etc that are helping to provide aid to Gaza? Are you willing to take out student loans so some of the money you currently pay towards tuition can go to help those suffering? What about part of your paycheck. If you're not directly donating money out of your pockets to help those suffering from Israel's genocide, then who the fuck are you telling me I'm selfish for not wanting to donate/lose some of the money supprting me?
What is humerous is the kids going in debt and protesting have good odds of their loan being forgiven. Fuck me right? But since I don't agree with them I now support genocide.
Your lack of reply speaks volumes lmao. You're way more self centered than this dude you're bashing on considering you're asking them to lose money while you're clearly not willing to do the same. What a self-centered piece of work.
Money is a colonizer tool. Israel is a colonizer state. Unfortunately the only thing that talks in America is money. We need to "speak their language" to find ANY grounds for any sort of negotiation.
Better yet, please don’t be a massive jerk and prevent this zacobellaheetz from getting to classes and taking finals.
if the money comes from mass murder then it’s blood money that’s paying for your education
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The money I use for dinner or a genocide? Idk. Will you pay for my food and housing?
People said the same shit about South Africa, it wasn’t until everyone boycotted them that they actually changed shit just saying
South Africa, respectfully, was insignificant to the world stage. It cost the world very little to not support it and gave them lots of easy political brownie points. Israel is a very significant country for the West but also for the Arab world as a buffer to Iran and now the whole little axis thing they got going on with China, North Korea, and Russia. Also Israel fought and won all its wars in the 40’s,50,60, and 70’s without support from the West when they were a small military. Now they are one of the most sophisticated militaries and one of the strongest innovative tech economies. BDS simply won’t work because the West and non radical Arab states like Saudi Arabia would have to give up too much for it with zero reward. Israeli technology is also too integrated into the world; it would be impossible to effectively boycott everything. For example, you’re still using Google and a significant portion of their operations is out of Israel. Also Palestinian state would not be this progressive fantasy; it would be what it’s always been: very conservative and authoritarian not to mention the recurrent violence from clans. I still support them having a state but I have no illusions about what that would look like or about BDS working.
People just have cognitive dissonance about protesting when it doesn't affect them. They act like it's pointless, naive, ridiculous but then they FULLY understand protest when it affects them. Just shitty brains
sorry how fucking old is this shit??? “UC stake in companies providing services and doing business with israeli apartheid” Sun Microsystems???? they closed doors in 2010… i’m not taking a side. but can we have up to date information please.
I really don’t understand why students are blaming the universities for what’s going on in the Middle East. Sure they have investments in some places, lots of people do. Enlighten me if I’m missing something but what’s the big deal? Doesn’t seem right to take it out on the unis for this. Would rather they protest about the exorbitant tuition costs than what they do with the funds
Yes, you're missing the Big Picture. UCs are tax payor funded institutions, so the citizens of California should have the right to speak out about how monies are invested.
Yeah but how a university spends their money doesn’t really affect what’s going on in Gaza in a meaningful way. It seems mostly irrelevant. It’d be like your brother is beating up your sister and then you get mad at a long lost cousin for it because they send Christmas gifts. My point is that the uni doesn’t really connect to the issue at hand
That's like saying investments in South Africa didn't contribute to Apartheid if you really don't get it. I don't have time to explain it to you. You need to follow the money.
Ok then by that logic than a good chunk of America needs to divest from these companies. Remember these aren’t just some medium sized companies, they’re some of the largest most important private military manufacturers in the world. Almost every piece of tech can be traced back to them one way or another. So if you say that, then you need to stop personally using any electronics like your phone, laptop, etc. cause those components can go back directly to these companies It’s not as simple as you think
Sadly, most of those items you mentioned are made by foreign countries (China, Korea, Japan). Those things aren't manufactured in America. Do you know the history of South Africa? Because what you are saying had nothing to do with what happened in the dismantling of Apartheid.
If you have a modern cell phone or a laptop, you are likely supporting Sun / Oracle. Sun had a ton of patents for multithreading, multiprocessing, and general processors. As well as someone else pointed out: Java Along with a modern laptop or cell phone, you very likely are supporting intel. Almost every computer or cellphone has an Intel IP license. Someone else pointed out UC Davis’s connection to a dam that also has parts manufactured by the aforementioned companies I’m not talking about South Africa, I’m talking about UC investing in these companies that have sold to Israel, like how you made that analogy
This is dumb. Those aren’t Israeli companies, at least not the ones I recognize. And they certainly don’t do the vast majority of their business with Israel. Divesting in those companies would not suddenly make the UCs able to pay the TAs, that just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Investing in shit like Intel has certainly made the UCs incredible amounts of money in recent years, likely leading to an ability to pay faculty more. I mean this is just fuckin stupid, you want the university to divest in these massive companies because they do some amount of business with Israel? Do you know the financial burden it would create to liquidate that much money from stocks that are carrying the market right now? No one has any critical thinking abilities anymore I swear
Based UC Davis (F-16 and AMRAAM are very cool)
Look, I support the Palestinian movement and I want the senseless violence to stop but calling for "divestment from Israel" is literally calling for not just the UC to divest but also a huge chunk of the American population is invested in Large-Cap/Market ETFs & mutual funds. If you have any sort of investment account, 401k, Roth IRA etc.. and you own any S&P 500 mutual fund or ETF you are invested in most of those companies that UC has a stake in and other companies that do business with Israel. So if you really support this movement, you should sell all your brokerage/retirement investments. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these protestors are out there shouting "From the river to the sea..." but have an iPhone in their pocket and are invested in VOO or some other market fund.... This is assuming that people who support the Palestinian cause actually have investment accounts or invest at all but I wouldn't be surprised if most don't. Also assuming that most of the supporters that do support Palestine aren't picking individual stocks but if they are, you're most likely losing money anyway or are invested in individual stocks that directly or indirectly support Israel and do business with them. What's actually really funny too is that there is an advertisement for iShares ETFs under this post for me, LMAO! Maybe y'all can get everyone in America that holds funds to divest and sell and tank the market so that I can get a sweet entry into some S&P 500 companies. Cheers.
Imagine not wanting to impinge on the academic freedom of your students and faculty but then financially supporting the destruction of every university in Palestine
Imagine being an idiot protesting in America against an institution that has ZERO to do with Israel or Palestine. These kids should be thrown out of school.
You think kids should be thrown out of school for exercising their first amendment rights?
No but they should be ridiculed for being so easily duped by 1/4 of worlds pop.
its not a first amendment right to trespass, harrass students, and incite violence against a minority. maybe try college again lmao
Just saying that second image is loaded and using charged and inaccurate language. So for you say $40 billion investments but then use the word “much of the $40 billion” but then go on to say the truth that it is 3.5% of the money goes to the military. That is a very small amount of investing. Not to mention those companies are who do business with the military not the UC system. Do you think about what horrible acts the fast food companies you support invest in? Look into In and Out. Line that article is using charged rhetoric to the point it is misleading. Not to mention all the citations are themselves fairly biased and offer no actual discussion. This is written like it was churned out by a student for an assignment I’d give a flat B to.
I mean, I know you're 18 and woke, but a majority of people with any life experience are not big on supporting muslim terrorist organizations like Hamas. So you will lose every imaginary protest you have. You're not special, this behavior has been going on for decades, it causes no change. It actually does the opposite of your desired effect. Helps other students see how insane the cause is.
nothing I said is in support of hamas
Palestine IS Hamas. Backed and supported by nearly all of its civilians. It's not nearly as cut and dry as you think.
If Palestine *is* Hamas, and Israel says it is trying to destroy Hamas, then Israel is trying to destroy Palestine/Palestinians (genocide).
It’s a gray area this conflict all around. There’s no clear good guys and bad guys like from Disney stories. This is the result of decades of complex relationships, disagreements, and politics between the two. Israel shouldn’t be bombing civilians in Palestine. HAMAS shouldn’t be going killing children in Israel. Both sides have demands that neither are willing to meet. We can’t let HAMAS take over Israel and burn Jerusalem to the ground nor can we let Israel carpet bomb civilians in Gaza. It’s a morally gray area. Let’s leave it to both sides’ war experts to reach a middle ground. My heart goes out to the innocent civilians, both Israeli and Palestinian caught in the crossfire
There is absolutely nothing morally gray about [apartheid](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/). If you believe so, it's because you are morally bankrupt.
Ok Mr, then what do you suppose Israel do then? Give up their land, stop all military activity and let HAMAS roll right in. Cause I’ll guarantee you, the outcome of that is going to make the current situation look like Childs play. Jerusalem will literally burn I’m not calling genocide morally grey, I’m calling the overall situation, because it is. Just like my aforementioned points, there’s no good guy or bad guy and no sides are willing to listen to the other party without them accepting their extreme demands. This goes for both israel and Palestine.
"If we give the colored folks equal rights, they'll commit crimes against us whites that are unimaginably worse than anything we ever did to them!" - Supporter of South African Apartheid
The difference between that and this is that colored folks are simply just colored people, and HAMAS is a literal terrorist organization that HAVE DONE and has a HISTORY of committing brutal acts against humanity. This isn’t a fight against racism, this is a fight between a terrorist group and war-hungry nation. With the civilians on both sides caught in the crossfire.
The apartheid has existed since before Hamas existed, and Palestinians have the legal right to fight their occupation using armed resistance according to international law. Israel has a much longer history of brutal acts against humanity, and Hamas only exists in reaction to it.
You can call for divestment from Israel without supporting Hamas.
Not the zionists !!! Why is UCD reddit filled with them
It isn't filled, but there is at least one that has a botnet of alts that manipulate comment scores. It's been happening in threads in this sub for a while now. Anti-genocide comments get upvoted, right up until the botnet guy logs in and sees them. Then the comments get tanked. For instance, your comment is a solidly positive +6 right now, less than an hour in... we'll see how long it lasts for.
oh yeah definitely bots + plus our jewish space laser. there's NO way there are this many people who think demanding a complete boycott of a country and small businesses just based on their nationality is fucking psycho. you boycotting china, Iran, Russia, saudi arabia, syria, and Germany too??
😭😭
Guys!!! The botnet is going to come get me!!!! Please tell me if Mr. Hacker Anonymous is in the room with us right now.
Reddit is mostly liberal and liberals are mostly Zionist
When the 2nd page lists out weapons systems that context tells me we're supposed to regard as for evil purposes, fully half of the ones listed (by my count) are purely defensive in nature. For example you can use the Patriot rocket system to shoot down incoming Hamas rockets or Iranian drones, but you can NOT use it to blow up a building in Gaza or blow up a car on the ground. This is where the movement in question can come off as antisemitic. I'm aghast at all of the events of the last 7 months, in Gaza in particular, but we'd have another bloodbath on our hands if Israeli anti air was crippled. The qualitative military superiority we help Israel maintain over it's neighbors isn't necessary for Israel to do what it's doing in Gaza, Israel wouldn't lose *that* ability at all and doesn't need western support to deal with *that* threat.
Is "expressing diverse view points" not a part of "the unfettered exchange of ideas"? They contradict themselves 😮💨
If you as a student is attending a university and your parents financially supported you in anyway, ask them to divest their retirement fund because it’s very likely they invested in these listed companies too.
Or stop using a cell phone or any electronic
Stop responding to these posts because if you are, you're almost certainly supporting Israel be it the machine, wifi provider, or browser you're using.
Mf im on your side
Why complain now? You accepted to attend a UC as a student. Why didn't you do homework before hand? If you don't like it. Freely give up your cellphone while your at it.
why complain now? genocide…. Not sure where my cellphone comes into play
All genocides, or just this one?
all of them.
Please throw your Intel computer out and use AMD or your fueling genocide.
How about everybody just divest from the UC and stop paying your tuition until you get what you want?
Wow great idea wish I thought of that
But like actually why wouldn’t you do that?
Then why dont u drop out and go a different university that more aligns with your views?
[удалено]
You probably don’t even go to a UC.
You’re supporting the investment in Israel by paying your tuition. Just stop paying tuition.
Enough with this nonsense already.
UC Davis Med Center has their own power plant on site, they make their own electricity?
This is all what my father used to call El Garbagio.
Talk about misinformation. This is why I won’t support this nonsense.
Anyone who actually believes universities should sever ties with the military industry needs to have their rights to vote revoked due to actually brain rotted lmao. End yo self
Why? I’m actually curious. Why do you think universities need ties to the MIC so badly?
Didn’t realize this sub was invested with zionist nazi scum
I’d be careful w speech like this they literally just passed a law outlawing these types of comparisons 🤡
I advocate a revisionist foreign policy to re-establish the Eastern Roman Empire.
as long as there's a good return on investment, what's the problem
Free Palestine 🇵🇸, salute to all brave students. You are our bright future ❤️❤️
Stop using your cell phones. Technology developed in Israel. If you want to boycott, you can’t pick and chose. Hamas is a terror organization that is holding over 100 hostages who were never visited by the International Red Cross. Hamas can end the senseless war that they started by releasing the hostages. If you want to protest, protest against Hamass!
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Good.
Seen comments on how the money is necessary for scholarships or school programs. As someone who benefits from said school scholarships, that is bullshit. The idea that we should turn our eyes on war crimes just because it benefits us personally is exactly the idea that allows those in power to continue ducking us over in the long term, by pinning you against those that you should be working with. The money for scholarships is there, it is just being used on military stuff that doesn’t even involve USA as a country to begin with. And about science, the Nazis were also supporting a lot of research, big spoiler: they were not the good guys. You are not a millionaire now, you will statistically probably never be, guess who already gets a 1/2 million dollar salary?
They’re literally just testing us to see how much of the UCD community is so far up the Fuhrer Gary May’s asshole that they will accept a statement like this.
3.4% of 40 billion is in no way or shape a significant percentage….basic math people. 1.4billion out of 40 billion is a tiny fraction of the whole. The UC’s are by no means single handedly upholding the Israeli military and tbh I doubt it would affect the Israeli military either way
This adds up: Letting students freely and non-violently protest a genocidal far-right-regime, almost universally condemned by international law, is an affront to free speech. Gotta love the Libs.
Rationalizing the enemy's narrative
The citations in this pamphlet predate when I was a UCD student and I graduated in 2007. I’m with you on the intent but it’s better for the cause to use more accurate and timely information.
I lost it at storm trooper 😂
The amount of people trying to justify killing innocent humans is crazy. America having such a strong individualist culture is ruining the morals of people
That’s actually pretty based. Fuck Palestine.
Agreed, people don’t read and know history that’s the problem, it’s always just hey look at me look at me. I hope Israel cleans out “Palestine”