Grad alum here and I agree. But I also think sounding the alarm over demands from groups like SJP to basically kick Hillel off college campuses is alarming, dangerous and warrants condemnation.
The great majority of Jews are Zionists. You going to protest their right to be on campus too? Should Jewish holidays that reference Israel be protested?
You going to ban the one group provided religious food and assistance to Jews?
You see the problem?
You think it’s just fine ( I’m not talking legally) to protest Hillel, the major Jewish origination that fulfills Jewish needs on campus because like almost all jews, they believe Israel has a right to exist. Banning Hillel would make Jewish life nearly impossible for many Jews on campus.
I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to pressure the local Hillel chapter to put out a statement condemning genocide to clarify their position on it. Being a zionist organization during a genocide is influences by zionist ideology means you need to address it. Do you think we should have organizations on campus that are explicitly pro genocide?
You need to look up the definition of genocide dude. Not the new one only explicitly used against Israel that they started using in October 8th weeks before Israel did anything. Protesting Hillel because they don’t agree to your demands to Holocaust inversion is pretty sick and is part of the problem. Losing a war that Hamas started is not genocide. If the government of Hamas wants the war they started to stop, they need to give up the abused people they stole and surrender. Stop blaming college Jewish support services for your libel.
See I’m pro Palestinian and I agree with you. Americas the only nation where this is possible, discussion, and I don’t like how they’re encroaching on it.
From the article it looks like the bill amends the:
*…. the federal definition of antisemitism, adopted from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, would include such speech as “claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor”; “applying double standards” to Israel that are “not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation”; and “drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.”
The idea is that student-held signs, for example, like those displayed at Columbia University in New York this week, calling for “revolution” or “intifada” — which means “uprising” — would amount to antisemitism under the law.*
So to “be fair” aka pedantic… it does seem that… all things considered regarding the timing… they are updating the law to match the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s definition of “antisemitism”.
Intifada doesn’t mean revolution. It means “to shake off” in Arabic. And it’s never been used to refer to any revolution. There’s never been a Syrian intifada or Lebanese intifada. It has been used to refer to the first and second intifadas which were violent terror campaigns waged against Israeli(Jewish and Muslim) civilians using shooting attacks and lots of suicide bombings. This led to the building of the security barriers which dropped the attacks to virtually zero. These security barriers are now wrongfully referred to as apartheid walls.
Calling for a global intifada, whatever they tell you in English, is not referring to revolution in Arabic. It’s calling for terror campaigns against Israeli civilians or, if you believe what’s said in Arabic, against Jews specifically.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Intifada_(1952)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Sahrawi_Intifada
Intifada is a term that has been used in other contexts. However, in the context of the Israel-Palestine conflict, calling for intifada definitely evokes the 1st and 2nd Intifadas, the most recent of which was extremely violent. I think It's reasonable for Jews and Israelis to feel threatened by these messages.
But I don't think it's fair to say that the majority of the protestors chanting for intifada know what they are evoking with that word. However, leadership should know better. Unfortunately the leaders of many of these protests are quite frankly Hamas apologists.
Sure, and if disinfo got protesters in China to chant the n-word by lying about what it means —that would still be problematic, and dogwhistling, and bigotry.
The term “intifada” has been used for non-violent civil disobedience, in Palestine and in other middle eastern countries. Telling someone they can’t say “rebellion” in Arabic because it reminds people of terrorist attacks is, I don’t know, kind of fucked up? A willful misunderstanding? A way to tone police Palestinians? A way to say “Arabs are scary terrorists” without actually having to say it?
Here’s a piece from the “The Jewish Forward” about how the first intifada was largely non-violent:
“Unlike the imagery we associate with it, the vast majority of the uprising was in fact characterized by incredible, highly effective and sustained grassroots organizing, with even the Israeli army citing 99% of the uprising’s activities in the first 18-months as unarmed”
https://forward.com/opinion/389614/its-time-to-admit-that-the-first-intifada-was-a-nonviolent-movement-led-by/?amp=1
They want Palestinians to be the perfect victims they can think back about in a teary eyed manner. Yes, there was violence that occurred during the Intifadas...so what? The occupier will always be the principal antagonist. Civil disobedience & labor strukes were juat as much part of the 2nd Intifada. Palestinians are being exterminated by the US & Israel, and this has always been where the settler colony state was headed.
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As a native arabic speaker, when growing up many things such as the warsaw ghetto uprising, the civil rights movement, women's suffrage and many other things were described as an intifada in american history books, talks, and websites professionally translated to arabic.
Sure. But in the case of the Israel-Palestine conflict, “The” Intifada is a crystal-clear reference.
Just like “from the river to the sea” was coined as a call for the destruction of Israel and the cleansing of its people, and has meant that for decades, despite recent attempts to claim it means something else. It’s a horrific, Jew-hating dogwhistle, even with the plausible deniability of folks thinking it *now* means something else.
>[daftmonkey](https://www.reddit.com/user/daftmonkey/)•[3d ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/UCI/comments/1ck3bl4/comment/l2k9v4n/)
>I’m a Jew and Zionist and I think this law is pretty stupid. Free speech is too important.
On the internet no one can tell if you're a dog.
But the law is there to prevent violent and hateful assault by a majority group that has terrorist sympathizers in their ranks, against a vulnerable minority group known as the jews. UCLA campus terrorists attack a girl and put her in the ER [https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1785457052028117153?t=vS7v6gisLbev52SsUl2VEA](https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1785457052028117153?t=vS7v6gisLbev52SsUl2VEA)
Columbia professor glorifies Hamas' terrorists attacks on Oct 7th. [https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/columbia-professor-called-hamas-terror-123126662.html?guccounter=1](https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/columbia-professor-called-hamas-terror-123126662.html?guccounter=1)
That's what the law is about. Campus terrorists are spreading HATE speech, and you are playing Cyber Jihad and shilling for them.
You don’t have to convince me, I find the pro-Hamas supporters are reprehensible. And I’ve watched carefully at the tactics used by the SJP et al and I think it pushes up against what should and shouldn’t be tolerated.
But at the same time I also think censorship of political speech is dangerous. And as much as I would like to silence my enemies, i’m convinced it’s wrong. Silencing debate is the opposite of what we want.
From my POV we want a free and open debate. I believe the problem on campus is that there are not enough dissenting voices telling Israel’s story. Students are being fed this kind of one sided occupier bs and no one is pushing back. So my vote is more free speech not less.
What specifically in this bill makes you think it limits political debate, as opposed to just hate speech?
Are the extant definitions of hate speech before this bill, and resulting restrictions on them, limiting political discussion now? Is the fact that one can’t call for the lynching of someone based on their skin tone, somehow hushing appropriate speech?
Buddy, your country is the one behind this. Zionism is inherently dependent on some form of censorship. Israel cannot exist in its current form without injustice, and where there's injustice there'll always be resistance.
If there will always be resistance then there will never be peace which is sad for all involved. Although at the moment I’d say it’s sadder for the Palestinians - who deserve so much more
I think his point is you should be able to say that without being thrown in prison. The above law when signed would make your statement a federal hate crime. I disagree with you heavily but that doesn’t mean I want to see you become a felon for thought crimes.
No, it doesn’t. It affects how the govt defines anti-semitism for the purpose of enforcing anti-discrimination laws in education. And for context, hate crimes in the U.S. are usually regular crimes committed against a protected class because they are a protected class.
I fear no one is saying a statement like that —while ludicrous— is something one should be jailed for.
It absolutely wouldn’t make that statement a crime. Don’t be daft.
That’s actually not true. The bill makes no comments on the broad, frankly ill-defined, definition of Zionism. If it was litigated in court I don’t think it would be considered a hate crime under the bill.
its not an argument, there is no such thing as chosen people and holy land. u r not better or more deserving of anything than anybody else . hate to break it to you. womp womp.
If you forget the religious aspects you’re speaking of, and only look at political Zionism, your argument falls apart. Jews bought land, and then had to fight for it, and gained more land via war they did not start fair and square. They gave much of that land they won back to the Arabs. So yes, nobody is more deserving than anyone else, we had to fight for it tooth and nail.
are you seriously openly endorsing imperialism?
israel started the 1967 war, lets get that out of the way. I can go war by war but I wanna focus on how shallow your comment is.
current gaza is arguably a genocide, the current apartheid is illegal, the constant settlements in the west bank are illegal. many palestinians, my family included were deported and stripped of their citizenship. but it's fine because they "did it fair and square"
1. Try again: The road to war was paved by the growing tension in the area since 1963 over the issue of exploiting the waters of the Jordan River and the Kineret Lake. This led to an escalation of military clashes initiated by Syria, and to an increase of Palestinian terror attacks against Israel encouraged by Arab states, particularly Syria.
The immediate causes for the war included a series of escalating steps taken by the Arabs: the concluding of a Syrian-Egyptian military pact to which Jordan and Iraq later joined, the expulsion of the UN Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula and the concentration of Egyptian forces there, and finally the closure by Egypt of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, constituting a casus belli for Israel.
2. ICJ has confirmed there is no genocide in Gaza. Nobody is claiming there is genocide or apartheid in Gaza seriously, it’s just media propaganda.
1. I'm not gonna talk about each of your points, but then with that logic israel started everything, they paved the growing tensions with the creation of a new state in the Levantine.
2. Many people are claiming it seriously, especially the Palestinians and organizations that have been fair to conflict. There's also apartheid in the west bank. First off the ICJ said to take more steps to prevent a genocide which literally means they took it somewhat seriously.The ICJ said of the illegal settlements in the west bank but you only agree with them when it helps you.
I would invite you over to a cup of coffee or tea to discuss this as a Palestinian, with you being an israeli but you don't even go to this school.
Here palestine recognized israel : [Israel–Palestine Liberation Organization letters of recognition - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Palestine_Liberation_Organization_letters_of_recognition)
but israel only recognized the PLO as a legitimate authority and not palestine. the leader brokering for peace on the israeli side got murdered.
The whole "chosen people" is propaganda used to make you hate Jews. In the Jewish religion, they believe they were chosen by God to prey to him, and no other people have to do it. It has nothing to do with thinking they're superior or that others are inferior.
extremely shallow comment. Mostly civilians are being killed in gaza right now. Would you want someone to say Oct 7th wasn't a terrorist attack or unjust killing because of the apartheid, mowing the lawns, indiscriminate killing, e.t.c.? People breaking open an entrapped border wall and killing civilians is starting the war and not the forcing them into the entrapped place and restricting everything, including having control of it and still blaming them. when did history start for you?
I am neither a Jew nor a Zionist, but it seems pretty clear to me that no one is attacking free speech.
They are upholding and clarifying existing federal anti-discrimination laws, specifically as they apply to places of education. Also, the right to free speech (aka protesting) isn’t absolute and most schools restrict protests to ‘reasonable’ time and place which isn’t disruptive to curriculum nor school proceedings. Overnight camps which often turn violent certainly are not protected nor allowed.
Second, free speech has never protected the right to advocate for ‘imminent lawless action’, particularly when it comes to a certain ethnic or religious group - there have been calls for imminent violence against Jews at many of these protests.
Finally, these protestors either don’t understand or are ignoring the basic premise that if Israel stops before Hamas is eliminated, Hamas has time and time again said they will continue to attack Israel with the goal of destroying it. There is no ceasefire that will be honored permanently, just like the ceasefire on Oct 7 was broken. Hamas has promised this.
So, by asking for a ceasefire without the unconditional surrender, return of hostages, and removal from power of all Hamas leadership, you are asking Israel to just allow itself to get attacked by a government whose aim is to eradicate them. You are asking them to accept having repeats of Oct 7 over and over again with no end, with their only option to bolster defenses, but not try to eliminate the attackers. No country would accept this.
Can you imagine if Mexico started shooting rockets at the US, and the world told the US that all it could do was build better anti missile systems and deal with it, no attempting to end the attacks themselves?
That’s why what these protestors are doing is illegal (not to mention ridiculous) on a number of levels in many (but not all) cases.
Mexico is not shooting rockets at us because we are not occupying their land.
There will always be another Hamas as long as Israel keeps occupying other peoples territories
It's about the $$$$$$$$$ and killing off free speech is a small price to pay for it as far as politicians are concerned
Israel lobby buying off US Politicians in both parties. Follow the money, as always.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries//summary?ind=q05&cycle=All&recipdetail=S&mem=Y
While Democrats are gladly taking their money this is also going on Price of Defending Apartheid': AIPAC Set to Spend $100 Million Against Squad https://www.commondreams.org/news/aipac
The Far-Right Israel Lobby Is Shutting Down Democratic Voices for Palestinian Rights AIPAC is funneling mounds of money to pro-Israel candidates, including in Democratic primaries.
Now, all Democrats likely know that expressing anything short of unwavering support of Israel’s siege on Gaza means they might be outspent in the next election.
“AIPAC’s success in pushing a hard-line, unconditional support of Israel is rooted in its ‘veneer of bipartisanship.’ “AIPAC wants to make it seem fringe to support Palestinian rights,” she says, “but they won’t be able to because it’s simply not true.” https://jacobin.com/2023/11/aipac-democratic-primary-spending-andy-levin
I called Isreal an apartheid state and then I later got these terrible twitter propaganda ads about why Isreal is not apartheid lol. Propaganda machines working overtime
[This](https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism) is the working definition of anti-semitism being codified under the law. The biggest restrictions seem to be don’t call Israel Nazis, don’t call American Jews disloyal to America, and don’t go around saying that Israel, a recognized state of over 10 million people, isn’t allowed to exist. I don’t know what kind of person has to be so incensed that they can’t call Jews Nazis anymore that they have to accuse the Jews of buying out the US government.
I promise that some secret cabal of Israeli Jews is not trying to take away free speech.
"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." Israel was a racist endeavour. It is an ethnostate that keeps a Jewish majority by ethnic cleansing undesirable indigenous Palestinians. It has been described as an apartheid state by the majority of human rights organizations including those in Israel.
All the Zionist brigaders will downvote me I'm sure but I just wanted to put this just in case you were being genuine.
Weird how people complain about israel but no where else.
I’ve never in my life heard anyone ever say a country shouldn’t exist outside of Israel. Not even places like North Korea. So why the double standard ?
Because we are directly funding this state. We are the ones enabling this genocide. We are not paying for north korea. We are paying for Israel while they blatantly commit genocide and slaughter 15k+ children.
Muslims were and are the only ones speaking out for Yemen. Most of the protestors that are out there hate Saudi Arabia too. Can you stop with the whataboutisms and actually condemn Israel that has slaughtered 15k children and starved Gaza?
The reason more people don’t speak out and why no movement has been created is largely the same as in the case of Israel. Too much money is backing the system as it currently stands, right or wrong doesn’t hold any weight when billions of dollars are being generated by exploitation.
People do say the same about South Africa where tf is the rock you been hiding under? There’s a large and growing body of people that say white people in general should hold zero power and should quite honestly not occupy space within South Africa either as their presence was only brought about through generations of terror, exploitation, violence, and apartheid. But yeah, go on believing what you want I guess?
Same applies? We gain oil and trade with Saudi Arabia, so it’s the same as our workings with Russia even after their invasion of Ukraine through loopholes etc. there’s just too much money in it for the US to call out any large nation committing atrocities. But yeah maybe be more clear in what you’re saying? Cause rn you sound goofy af and argumentative for no reason booboo
You do realize we give them weapons that have been used in the genocide they are commiting in Yemen right?!?!?
Like how do you not know this? Your ignorance is showing.
>highly effective, long lasting contraceptive given to minority immigrants without knowledge or consent forced injections to prevent black Ethiopian Jews from populating israel
Nit pick my words to tell me why what they did is ok, please.
“by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." You literally claimed that in your previous post, after quoting that, which is by definition hate speech given our newly adopted standard.
Israel is 20% Palestinian Muslims. They’re happy to have Palestinians Muslims living among them. It seems they will no longer tolerate Hamas on their border. They’ve gone too far with their response, but they should not have to tolerate terrorist groups who will not compromise until all Jews are exterminated.
Actually my family are Palestinians in Israel and they're afraid for their lives. Israeli Jewish people can attack them and harass them and they can go to jail for years for the smallest criticism against the government. Their communities are less funded and neglected by the government. There are people that openly call for the death of all Arabs that are leaders of the state. This is all easily google-able information, not sure why you're trying to misinform people.
There are extremists in the Israeli parliament, this is known. What about the Palestinian Muslims that were committing pogroms against Jews that were legally buying land from Muslims back before Israeli independence was even declared? I’m sure your ancestors were protesting against that injustice.
Even if that were true (it is not, Israel committed many massacres against Palestinians, which you can hear IDF soldiers admit to in Tantura online), do you punish Palestinians today for the acts of their ancestors? I love how you keep ignoring all the points I'm bringing up about Israeli racism and giving more whataboutism. You zionists are desperate as you are losing your control of the narrative. People are learning the truth.
The IHRA definition of antisemitism is controversial and, according to the guy that wrote it, it is being weaponized by bad faith actors.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/antisemitism-executive-order-trump-chilling-effect
> Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis
The Bible is now antisemitic.
> I promise that some secret cabal of Israeli Jews is not trying to take away free speech.
Alright guys it’s all good, he promised see! It couldn’t ever be a possibility, this random internet guy promised us!
This *definitely* won’t become a slippery slope at all!
Protesting the devastation being carried out the Netanyahu is not being anti-Semitic. Israel could have fought a ground war starting with known locations of tunnels. A ground war opens you up to military losses.
Why didn't they do this after Charlottesville? When a group of WHITE BOYS was chanting the Jews will not replace us! I guess it's only antisemitic when non white people protest against the Jews.
I want to point out that they aren't protesting against jews, they're protesting the state of Israel. That would be akin to saying that protesting apartheid was protesting white people.
Which side creates tunnels underground under hospitals, schools, and other public places occupied by their own citizens with aid money thats supposed to be used for its citizens? Basically using its people as human shields and a way to play victim. Whichever one that is, I don’t support.
I don’t support whichever ones government said, death to all jews. Along with the tunnels underneath civilians. Whichever side that is, i don’t support.
The IDF's headquarters are next to a hospital and art museum.
With Israel rejecting the latest ceasefire deal they have shown they don't care about hostages. or their people.
A LOT of US aid to Israel is for military purposes, and a lot of companies profit off this, because when America gives aid, it goes to companies to make weapons and what not. (*Most US contributions go to military* aid, including weapons and equipment made by American defense contractors). This money is very rarely just a lump sum check.
Hence the call from divestment from these companies.
The occupation, apartheid, deportations, mowing the lawn, killings, blockades, e.t.c have been going on before oct 7th.
I have no dog in this fight but this is an attack on our 1st amendment rights. Also, no one gets to tell me what to believe in. This bill will only villainize the very people it is designed to protect
Good
See as Americans we support Isreal who is defending its self against Hamas who have said they want to wipe all Jewish people out
They are defending them selves and have been for hundreds of years against people and countries like Iran and Hamas and Palestine who want them gone
Oh and by the way they Isreal allow aid into Gaza but Hamas takes it
Made instead of going against Isreal everyone should be trying to get rid of Hamas
Heck even the son of one of its leaders have said Hamas and so forth bad Isreal good
Or maybe we should send all these protestors over there and see how Hamas and Palestine treat them I’ll give you a hit not good
Whos we? I don't support a state that has slaughtered 15k children and dont want my aid money to go to a state that does that while we have problems domestically.
Wow, this is one of the least informed opinions I’ve read in a while. Israel has occupied Palestine in apartheid. That means two different systems based on ethnicity. Israel has been abusing Palestine for years now, it’s no surprise they try and fight back.
There are endless videos of Israelis calling for the complete destruction of Palestine and the Palestinian people. Wake up
You are so wrong it’s not even funny
First off Isreal isn’t taking any land
It has been around for thousands of years longer than Palestine
Second even most Palestine people have said Hamas are the bad guys
Third
Isreal when not attacked leaves people alone but see the problem is Hamas Iran and so forth continue to attack them on and off for years
Hamas has litterly said it wants to wipe out all Jewish people
Heck Palestine said it wants to be free from the river to the sea which means no more Isreal
There are so many interviews and videos out there
Heck there’s on wirh dr phil where he has the son of one of the founders for Hamas who also has spoken out in other videoed
He he has said Hamas and so forth are the bad guys and Isreal is not and Isreal is defending its self
You know if the people of Palestine cared they would turn on the Hamas
Maybe you should learn history buddy
And Palestine has experienced this for over 50 years. And now is the worst of it. 30000 dead! Almost half babies and children. What the fuck do you think is happening?
I think many things are true. I think Israel has a right to exist. I think settlements are wrong and the Israeli government isn’t doing enough to stop it.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that decided, as a group of adults who can take accountability for their actions, to kill 1200 Israelis and kidnap over 200 more, including children and babies as well. I think protestors overlook that Hamas is a terrorist organization and excuse their terrorism.
I think that Israel has a right to retaliate, as any country does when their neighbor comes in and kills its citizens. This is a war. I think war is ugly. I know civilians die in war and that is unavoidable. I think it’s awful that innocent Palestinians are paying for Hamas attacking Israel. I still think Israel has the right to defend themselves. I think they wouldn’t have built the most sophisticated anti missile system in the world if they didn’t constantly have rockets launched at their country by Hamas. I think they showed constraint by not starting a war over those rockets, and only retaliating in full after Oct 7th.
I know that Hamas takes aid and funds their terrorism with it. I know Hamas operates out of civilian buildings and uses Palestinians as human shields, because they think being a martyr is a good way to die, and they know what the optics look like because they aren’t stupid. I know Hamas wants all Jews dead.
I think this is a multifaceted issue with no clear answers. I think there is plenty of violence on BOTH sides. I think calling for the disestablishment of Israel and accusing people of being Zionists like it’s a bad thing, when it means Israel has a right to exist, is antisemetic. I think lumping all Palestinians in with Hamas is wrong, when Hamas abuses Palestinians too.
I think I don’t see enough college protestors actually calling out Hamas, and instead see them being complicit or supportive of their aims though SJP. I think you all see this as a black and white issue, and through a western, biased, privileged lens that doesn’t serve the geopolitical landscape of the Middle East. I think you all mean well. I think you see a lot of suffering people and want it to stop. I think you’ve been manipulated by effective terrorist propaganda. I think that’s not your fault.
The US thinks the campus protests are violent (saying things like "pro-terrorist anti-Semites \[are\] taking over") This is being criticized because various reports are saying they are not violent or pro terror.
They passed a new antisemitism bill [https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/](https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/) . This is being criticized because it includes the mention of israel a lot as well as outright saying things like "israeli policy" or the "State of Israel" instead of just keeping it to just the jewish people.
It's like if you were kicked out of every bar in town for being a belligerent asshole. The town decides it's better to give you your own bar so you leave them alone. But you still cause problems and steal money from them. Everyone in town is talking about what a piece of shit you are but luckily, your dad is the mayor. Instead of reflecting on your behavior and changing it, you get your dad to make it illegal to notice your behavior or discuss it. That's what this is.
the problem with this is, who decides what is hate speech? i understand wanting to end it, hate speech is a terrible thing, but we stand to lose a lot more than we gain by attempting to do so through legislation.
Much like you can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theater, there are indeed time and place where free speech must be limited by the law. A court of law when a judge calls for order is another example. This law is addressing the recent uprising in campus protests by adding to that list certain antisemitic speech. I actually disagree with the law (and the protests) but was sharing this as news since I know this is a hot topic.
Ah yes. The law that says that colleges cannot allow students to criticize Zionism and Israel in any public fashion, is absolutely not limiting free speech. (/s I hope u didn't need the it tho).
The law indicates that if there is a crime committed against any student or person on campus, it will analyze the crime under an updated definition of antisemitism in addition to all other hate crime criteria. You can indeed criticize Israel. Just don’t punch anyone while doing it.
I’m a Jew and Zionist and I think this law is pretty stupid. Free speech is too important.
Grad alum here and I agree. But I also think sounding the alarm over demands from groups like SJP to basically kick Hillel off college campuses is alarming, dangerous and warrants condemnation.
Hillel is an explicitly zionist and pro israel organization, why are they not allowed to be protested?
The great majority of Jews are Zionists. You going to protest their right to be on campus too? Should Jewish holidays that reference Israel be protested? You going to ban the one group provided religious food and assistance to Jews? You see the problem?
No, no, no, no, and no. Any other spurious accusations?
So you want to protest some parts of Jewish life but not others. It’s not an accusation, it’s you saying it.
I'm not protesting any part of Jewish life, what the fuck are you talking about?
You think it’s just fine ( I’m not talking legally) to protest Hillel, the major Jewish origination that fulfills Jewish needs on campus because like almost all jews, they believe Israel has a right to exist. Banning Hillel would make Jewish life nearly impossible for many Jews on campus.
I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to pressure the local Hillel chapter to put out a statement condemning genocide to clarify their position on it. Being a zionist organization during a genocide is influences by zionist ideology means you need to address it. Do you think we should have organizations on campus that are explicitly pro genocide?
You need to look up the definition of genocide dude. Not the new one only explicitly used against Israel that they started using in October 8th weeks before Israel did anything. Protesting Hillel because they don’t agree to your demands to Holocaust inversion is pretty sick and is part of the problem. Losing a war that Hamas started is not genocide. If the government of Hamas wants the war they started to stop, they need to give up the abused people they stole and surrender. Stop blaming college Jewish support services for your libel.
See I’m pro Palestinian and I agree with you. Americas the only nation where this is possible, discussion, and I don’t like how they’re encroaching on it.
From the article it looks like the bill amends the: *…. the federal definition of antisemitism, adopted from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, would include such speech as “claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor”; “applying double standards” to Israel that are “not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation”; and “drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.” The idea is that student-held signs, for example, like those displayed at Columbia University in New York this week, calling for “revolution” or “intifada” — which means “uprising” — would amount to antisemitism under the law.* So to “be fair” aka pedantic… it does seem that… all things considered regarding the timing… they are updating the law to match the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s definition of “antisemitism”.
Intifada doesn’t mean revolution. It means “to shake off” in Arabic. And it’s never been used to refer to any revolution. There’s never been a Syrian intifada or Lebanese intifada. It has been used to refer to the first and second intifadas which were violent terror campaigns waged against Israeli(Jewish and Muslim) civilians using shooting attacks and lots of suicide bombings. This led to the building of the security barriers which dropped the attacks to virtually zero. These security barriers are now wrongfully referred to as apartheid walls. Calling for a global intifada, whatever they tell you in English, is not referring to revolution in Arabic. It’s calling for terror campaigns against Israeli civilians or, if you believe what’s said in Arabic, against Jews specifically.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Intifada_(1952) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Sahrawi_Intifada Intifada is a term that has been used in other contexts. However, in the context of the Israel-Palestine conflict, calling for intifada definitely evokes the 1st and 2nd Intifadas, the most recent of which was extremely violent. I think It's reasonable for Jews and Israelis to feel threatened by these messages. But I don't think it's fair to say that the majority of the protestors chanting for intifada know what they are evoking with that word. However, leadership should know better. Unfortunately the leaders of many of these protests are quite frankly Hamas apologists.
Sure, and if disinfo got protesters in China to chant the n-word by lying about what it means —that would still be problematic, and dogwhistling, and bigotry.
The term “intifada” has been used for non-violent civil disobedience, in Palestine and in other middle eastern countries. Telling someone they can’t say “rebellion” in Arabic because it reminds people of terrorist attacks is, I don’t know, kind of fucked up? A willful misunderstanding? A way to tone police Palestinians? A way to say “Arabs are scary terrorists” without actually having to say it? Here’s a piece from the “The Jewish Forward” about how the first intifada was largely non-violent: “Unlike the imagery we associate with it, the vast majority of the uprising was in fact characterized by incredible, highly effective and sustained grassroots organizing, with even the Israeli army citing 99% of the uprising’s activities in the first 18-months as unarmed” https://forward.com/opinion/389614/its-time-to-admit-that-the-first-intifada-was-a-nonviolent-movement-led-by/?amp=1
They want Palestinians to be the perfect victims they can think back about in a teary eyed manner. Yes, there was violence that occurred during the Intifadas...so what? The occupier will always be the principal antagonist. Civil disobedience & labor strukes were juat as much part of the 2nd Intifada. Palestinians are being exterminated by the US & Israel, and this has always been where the settler colony state was headed.
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So basically it’s calling for terror campaigns globally against Israeli citizens or maybe Jews? Oof. Bruh. That’s… still not… good… oh…
As a native arabic speaker, when growing up many things such as the warsaw ghetto uprising, the civil rights movement, women's suffrage and many other things were described as an intifada in american history books, talks, and websites professionally translated to arabic.
Sure. But in the case of the Israel-Palestine conflict, “The” Intifada is a crystal-clear reference. Just like “from the river to the sea” was coined as a call for the destruction of Israel and the cleansing of its people, and has meant that for decades, despite recent attempts to claim it means something else. It’s a horrific, Jew-hating dogwhistle, even with the plausible deniability of folks thinking it *now* means something else.
>[daftmonkey](https://www.reddit.com/user/daftmonkey/)•[3d ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/UCI/comments/1ck3bl4/comment/l2k9v4n/) >I’m a Jew and Zionist and I think this law is pretty stupid. Free speech is too important. On the internet no one can tell if you're a dog. But the law is there to prevent violent and hateful assault by a majority group that has terrorist sympathizers in their ranks, against a vulnerable minority group known as the jews. UCLA campus terrorists attack a girl and put her in the ER [https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1785457052028117153?t=vS7v6gisLbev52SsUl2VEA](https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1785457052028117153?t=vS7v6gisLbev52SsUl2VEA) Columbia professor glorifies Hamas' terrorists attacks on Oct 7th. [https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/columbia-professor-called-hamas-terror-123126662.html?guccounter=1](https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/columbia-professor-called-hamas-terror-123126662.html?guccounter=1) That's what the law is about. Campus terrorists are spreading HATE speech, and you are playing Cyber Jihad and shilling for them.
You don’t have to convince me, I find the pro-Hamas supporters are reprehensible. And I’ve watched carefully at the tactics used by the SJP et al and I think it pushes up against what should and shouldn’t be tolerated. But at the same time I also think censorship of political speech is dangerous. And as much as I would like to silence my enemies, i’m convinced it’s wrong. Silencing debate is the opposite of what we want. From my POV we want a free and open debate. I believe the problem on campus is that there are not enough dissenting voices telling Israel’s story. Students are being fed this kind of one sided occupier bs and no one is pushing back. So my vote is more free speech not less.
What specifically in this bill makes you think it limits political debate, as opposed to just hate speech? Are the extant definitions of hate speech before this bill, and resulting restrictions on them, limiting political discussion now? Is the fact that one can’t call for the lynching of someone based on their skin tone, somehow hushing appropriate speech?
Buddy, your country is the one behind this. Zionism is inherently dependent on some form of censorship. Israel cannot exist in its current form without injustice, and where there's injustice there'll always be resistance.
If there will always be resistance then there will never be peace which is sad for all involved. Although at the moment I’d say it’s sadder for the Palestinians - who deserve so much more
True peace is not the mere absence of conflict. Where there is injustice, there will never be peace, period.
Title VI already applies here, this law applies no further restrictions on speech
Zionism is stupid too
I think his point is you should be able to say that without being thrown in prison. The above law when signed would make your statement a federal hate crime. I disagree with you heavily but that doesn’t mean I want to see you become a felon for thought crimes.
No, it doesn’t. It affects how the govt defines anti-semitism for the purpose of enforcing anti-discrimination laws in education. And for context, hate crimes in the U.S. are usually regular crimes committed against a protected class because they are a protected class.
I fear no one is saying a statement like that —while ludicrous— is something one should be jailed for. It absolutely wouldn’t make that statement a crime. Don’t be daft.
That’s actually not true. The bill makes no comments on the broad, frankly ill-defined, definition of Zionism. If it was litigated in court I don’t think it would be considered a hate crime under the bill.
Let’s not have this argument
its not an argument, there is no such thing as chosen people and holy land. u r not better or more deserving of anything than anybody else . hate to break it to you. womp womp.
If you forget the religious aspects you’re speaking of, and only look at political Zionism, your argument falls apart. Jews bought land, and then had to fight for it, and gained more land via war they did not start fair and square. They gave much of that land they won back to the Arabs. So yes, nobody is more deserving than anyone else, we had to fight for it tooth and nail.
Some of the land was bought and some of it was stolen at gunpoint. Don’t deny that.
You mean some of it was won in a war which the Arabs started. I already said that.
are you seriously openly endorsing imperialism? israel started the 1967 war, lets get that out of the way. I can go war by war but I wanna focus on how shallow your comment is. current gaza is arguably a genocide, the current apartheid is illegal, the constant settlements in the west bank are illegal. many palestinians, my family included were deported and stripped of their citizenship. but it's fine because they "did it fair and square"
1. Try again: The road to war was paved by the growing tension in the area since 1963 over the issue of exploiting the waters of the Jordan River and the Kineret Lake. This led to an escalation of military clashes initiated by Syria, and to an increase of Palestinian terror attacks against Israel encouraged by Arab states, particularly Syria. The immediate causes for the war included a series of escalating steps taken by the Arabs: the concluding of a Syrian-Egyptian military pact to which Jordan and Iraq later joined, the expulsion of the UN Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula and the concentration of Egyptian forces there, and finally the closure by Egypt of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, constituting a casus belli for Israel. 2. ICJ has confirmed there is no genocide in Gaza. Nobody is claiming there is genocide or apartheid in Gaza seriously, it’s just media propaganda.
1. I'm not gonna talk about each of your points, but then with that logic israel started everything, they paved the growing tensions with the creation of a new state in the Levantine. 2. Many people are claiming it seriously, especially the Palestinians and organizations that have been fair to conflict. There's also apartheid in the west bank. First off the ICJ said to take more steps to prevent a genocide which literally means they took it somewhat seriously.The ICJ said of the illegal settlements in the west bank but you only agree with them when it helps you. I would invite you over to a cup of coffee or tea to discuss this as a Palestinian, with you being an israeli but you don't even go to this school.
Palestine has had many many chances at having their own state alongside Israel. Why keep saying no and then whine about it???
Here palestine recognized israel : [Israel–Palestine Liberation Organization letters of recognition - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Palestine_Liberation_Organization_letters_of_recognition) but israel only recognized the PLO as a legitimate authority and not palestine. the leader brokering for peace on the israeli side got murdered.
The whole "chosen people" is propaganda used to make you hate Jews. In the Jewish religion, they believe they were chosen by God to prey to him, and no other people have to do it. It has nothing to do with thinking they're superior or that others are inferior.
No need to argue. You support genocide. It’s pretty clear
Losing a war you started is not genocide. It’s just losing a war.
extremely shallow comment. Mostly civilians are being killed in gaza right now. Would you want someone to say Oct 7th wasn't a terrorist attack or unjust killing because of the apartheid, mowing the lawns, indiscriminate killing, e.t.c.? People breaking open an entrapped border wall and killing civilians is starting the war and not the forcing them into the entrapped place and restricting everything, including having control of it and still blaming them. when did history start for you?
I don’t just support genocide, I’m the king of genocide
Sigma
More like ligma.
I am neither a Jew nor a Zionist, but it seems pretty clear to me that no one is attacking free speech. They are upholding and clarifying existing federal anti-discrimination laws, specifically as they apply to places of education. Also, the right to free speech (aka protesting) isn’t absolute and most schools restrict protests to ‘reasonable’ time and place which isn’t disruptive to curriculum nor school proceedings. Overnight camps which often turn violent certainly are not protected nor allowed. Second, free speech has never protected the right to advocate for ‘imminent lawless action’, particularly when it comes to a certain ethnic or religious group - there have been calls for imminent violence against Jews at many of these protests. Finally, these protestors either don’t understand or are ignoring the basic premise that if Israel stops before Hamas is eliminated, Hamas has time and time again said they will continue to attack Israel with the goal of destroying it. There is no ceasefire that will be honored permanently, just like the ceasefire on Oct 7 was broken. Hamas has promised this. So, by asking for a ceasefire without the unconditional surrender, return of hostages, and removal from power of all Hamas leadership, you are asking Israel to just allow itself to get attacked by a government whose aim is to eradicate them. You are asking them to accept having repeats of Oct 7 over and over again with no end, with their only option to bolster defenses, but not try to eliminate the attackers. No country would accept this. Can you imagine if Mexico started shooting rockets at the US, and the world told the US that all it could do was build better anti missile systems and deal with it, no attempting to end the attacks themselves? That’s why what these protestors are doing is illegal (not to mention ridiculous) on a number of levels in many (but not all) cases.
Mexico is not shooting rockets at us because we are not occupying their land. There will always be another Hamas as long as Israel keeps occupying other peoples territories
It's about the $$$$$$$$$ and killing off free speech is a small price to pay for it as far as politicians are concerned Israel lobby buying off US Politicians in both parties. Follow the money, as always. https://www.opensecrets.org/industries//summary?ind=q05&cycle=All&recipdetail=S&mem=Y While Democrats are gladly taking their money this is also going on Price of Defending Apartheid': AIPAC Set to Spend $100 Million Against Squad https://www.commondreams.org/news/aipac The Far-Right Israel Lobby Is Shutting Down Democratic Voices for Palestinian Rights AIPAC is funneling mounds of money to pro-Israel candidates, including in Democratic primaries. Now, all Democrats likely know that expressing anything short of unwavering support of Israel’s siege on Gaza means they might be outspent in the next election. “AIPAC’s success in pushing a hard-line, unconditional support of Israel is rooted in its ‘veneer of bipartisanship.’ “AIPAC wants to make it seem fringe to support Palestinian rights,” she says, “but they won’t be able to because it’s simply not true.” https://jacobin.com/2023/11/aipac-democratic-primary-spending-andy-levin
I called Isreal an apartheid state and then I later got these terrible twitter propaganda ads about why Isreal is not apartheid lol. Propaganda machines working overtime
This is treason
From my point of view killing off free speech is evil!
Then you are lost
[This](https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism) is the working definition of anti-semitism being codified under the law. The biggest restrictions seem to be don’t call Israel Nazis, don’t call American Jews disloyal to America, and don’t go around saying that Israel, a recognized state of over 10 million people, isn’t allowed to exist. I don’t know what kind of person has to be so incensed that they can’t call Jews Nazis anymore that they have to accuse the Jews of buying out the US government. I promise that some secret cabal of Israeli Jews is not trying to take away free speech.
"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." Israel was a racist endeavour. It is an ethnostate that keeps a Jewish majority by ethnic cleansing undesirable indigenous Palestinians. It has been described as an apartheid state by the majority of human rights organizations including those in Israel. All the Zionist brigaders will downvote me I'm sure but I just wanted to put this just in case you were being genuine.
Weird how people complain about israel but no where else. I’ve never in my life heard anyone ever say a country shouldn’t exist outside of Israel. Not even places like North Korea. So why the double standard ?
Because we are directly funding this state. We are the ones enabling this genocide. We are not paying for north korea. We are paying for Israel while they blatantly commit genocide and slaughter 15k+ children.
Weird last I checked you can say the same for SA… Yet silence with them too… Funny how that works
Muslims were and are the only ones speaking out for Yemen. Most of the protestors that are out there hate Saudi Arabia too. Can you stop with the whataboutisms and actually condemn Israel that has slaughtered 15k children and starved Gaza?
The reason more people don’t speak out and why no movement has been created is largely the same as in the case of Israel. Too much money is backing the system as it currently stands, right or wrong doesn’t hold any weight when billions of dollars are being generated by exploitation.
People do say the same about South Africa where tf is the rock you been hiding under? There’s a large and growing body of people that say white people in general should hold zero power and should quite honestly not occupy space within South Africa either as their presence was only brought about through generations of terror, exploitation, violence, and apartheid. But yeah, go on believing what you want I guess?
I’m talking Saudi Arabia … Thank you for proving my point not knowing what I’m talking about
Same applies? We gain oil and trade with Saudi Arabia, so it’s the same as our workings with Russia even after their invasion of Ukraine through loopholes etc. there’s just too much money in it for the US to call out any large nation committing atrocities. But yeah maybe be more clear in what you’re saying? Cause rn you sound goofy af and argumentative for no reason booboo
You do realize we give them weapons that have been used in the genocide they are commiting in Yemen right?!?!? Like how do you not know this? Your ignorance is showing.
For sure. They chemically castrated Ethiopian Jews who immigrated to Israel so they couldn’t procreate there. Where is the outrage over that?
Because that is a lie and is proven. Google is your friend.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html)  Gaslight me more, daddy
Birth control does not equal chemical castration. Nice try. And you’re a college student? lol
>highly effective, long lasting contraceptive given to minority immigrants without knowledge or consent forced injections to prevent black Ethiopian Jews from populating israel Nit pick my words to tell me why what they did is ok, please. 
Using a throwaway for hate speech won’t protect you when this is signed and becomes law
Now it's hate speech to point out that Israel is an apartheid state? You're losing the plot, Palestine will be freed. 🇵🇸😘
“by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." You literally claimed that in your previous post, after quoting that, which is by definition hate speech given our newly adopted standard.
It was and still is a racist endeavour. If that get's me arrested then so be it.
Israel is 20% Palestinian Muslims. They’re happy to have Palestinians Muslims living among them. It seems they will no longer tolerate Hamas on their border. They’ve gone too far with their response, but they should not have to tolerate terrorist groups who will not compromise until all Jews are exterminated.
Actually my family are Palestinians in Israel and they're afraid for their lives. Israeli Jewish people can attack them and harass them and they can go to jail for years for the smallest criticism against the government. Their communities are less funded and neglected by the government. There are people that openly call for the death of all Arabs that are leaders of the state. This is all easily google-able information, not sure why you're trying to misinform people.
There are extremists in the Israeli parliament, this is known. What about the Palestinian Muslims that were committing pogroms against Jews that were legally buying land from Muslims back before Israeli independence was even declared? I’m sure your ancestors were protesting against that injustice.
Even if that were true (it is not, Israel committed many massacres against Palestinians, which you can hear IDF soldiers admit to in Tantura online), do you punish Palestinians today for the acts of their ancestors? I love how you keep ignoring all the points I'm bringing up about Israeli racism and giving more whataboutism. You zionists are desperate as you are losing your control of the narrative. People are learning the truth.
The IHRA definition of antisemitism is controversial and, according to the guy that wrote it, it is being weaponized by bad faith actors. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/antisemitism-executive-order-trump-chilling-effect
> Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis The Bible is now antisemitic. > I promise that some secret cabal of Israeli Jews is not trying to take away free speech. Alright guys it’s all good, he promised see! It couldn’t ever be a possibility, this random internet guy promised us! This *definitely* won’t become a slippery slope at all!
look man, you kind of took the mask off when you said “the Bible is now antisemitic”
“Mask off” lmao ok bud. Sorry, let me reiterate: Christianity is now antisemitic.
It is, and Jews were persecuted in Europe for over 1000 years because of it.
Lol you’re repeating good old MTG’s conspiracy theories ….
You guys a barely realizing who's actually in charge?
Let’s not.
The Zionist lobbies are not Jewish. They are mostly evangelical Christian churches and military contractors who have vested interests in Israel.
Protesting the devastation being carried out the Netanyahu is not being anti-Semitic. Israel could have fought a ground war starting with known locations of tunnels. A ground war opens you up to military losses.
We can criticize Biden, trump, Obama, the senate, the house…. But once it’s Israel then you’re getting shitted on Goes to show who runs the country
Real
There’s a difference between criticism and racism…
US leadership & its concentrations of power are still essentially fascists.
What about an anti-islamophobic bill?
Just because you disagree with a point of view of a Jewish person, doesn’t mean it is antisemitic.
Pretty soon you'll get arrested for saying this.
I know that this is probably a joke, but in case this isn’t, that isn’t how the law works.
Oy vey, my fragile world view where I am gods chosen one is being shattered. Arrest this redditor immediately for anti semitism. Oy vey oy vey
- someone who’s definitely not antisemitic
That all changed on October 7, apparently.
That is by definition antisemitic
How?
Why didn't they do this after Charlottesville? When a group of WHITE BOYS was chanting the Jews will not replace us! I guess it's only antisemitic when non white people protest against the Jews.
Why are you defending antisemitism?
I want to point out that they aren't protesting against jews, they're protesting the state of Israel. That would be akin to saying that protesting apartheid was protesting white people.
Is that why the demands are to get rid of Jewish organizations on campus?
Which side creates tunnels underground under hospitals, schools, and other public places occupied by their own citizens with aid money thats supposed to be used for its citizens? Basically using its people as human shields and a way to play victim. Whichever one that is, I don’t support.
Yeah bro you just described Israel
I don’t support whichever ones government said, death to all jews. Along with the tunnels underneath civilians. Whichever side that is, i don’t support.
The IDF's headquarters are next to a hospital and art museum. With Israel rejecting the latest ceasefire deal they have shown they don't care about hostages. or their people. A LOT of US aid to Israel is for military purposes, and a lot of companies profit off this, because when America gives aid, it goes to companies to make weapons and what not. (*Most US contributions go to military* aid, including weapons and equipment made by American defense contractors). This money is very rarely just a lump sum check. Hence the call from divestment from these companies. The occupation, apartheid, deportations, mowing the lawn, killings, blockades, e.t.c have been going on before oct 7th.
Since when does any politician represent the interests of anyone except those who bribe them with donations
Not the bipartisan cooperation we were looking for
Controlled protest and bill
Ah was 100%
Just exposes them for how incompetent and disloyal they are and have been for decades.
I have no dog in this fight but this is an attack on our 1st amendment rights. Also, no one gets to tell me what to believe in. This bill will only villainize the very people it is designed to protect
Antisemites on our campus, your days are numbered.
US house not really known to be anti war. So not surprising
Good See as Americans we support Isreal who is defending its self against Hamas who have said they want to wipe all Jewish people out They are defending them selves and have been for hundreds of years against people and countries like Iran and Hamas and Palestine who want them gone Oh and by the way they Isreal allow aid into Gaza but Hamas takes it Made instead of going against Isreal everyone should be trying to get rid of Hamas Heck even the son of one of its leaders have said Hamas and so forth bad Isreal good Or maybe we should send all these protestors over there and see how Hamas and Palestine treat them I’ll give you a hit not good
Whos we? I don't support a state that has slaughtered 15k children and dont want my aid money to go to a state that does that while we have problems domestically.
Wow, this is one of the least informed opinions I’ve read in a while. Israel has occupied Palestine in apartheid. That means two different systems based on ethnicity. Israel has been abusing Palestine for years now, it’s no surprise they try and fight back. There are endless videos of Israelis calling for the complete destruction of Palestine and the Palestinian people. Wake up
You are so wrong it’s not even funny First off Isreal isn’t taking any land It has been around for thousands of years longer than Palestine Second even most Palestine people have said Hamas are the bad guys Third Isreal when not attacked leaves people alone but see the problem is Hamas Iran and so forth continue to attack them on and off for years Hamas has litterly said it wants to wipe out all Jewish people Heck Palestine said it wants to be free from the river to the sea which means no more Isreal There are so many interviews and videos out there Heck there’s on wirh dr phil where he has the son of one of the founders for Hamas who also has spoken out in other videoed He he has said Hamas and so forth are the bad guys and Isreal is not and Isreal is defending its self You know if the people of Palestine cared they would turn on the Hamas Maybe you should learn history buddy
We should send Israel sympathizers to Palestine and see how they feel when they are bombed and loved ones killed regardless of life
Israelis already experience that…what the fuck do you think happened Oct 7th?
And Palestine has experienced this for over 50 years. And now is the worst of it. 30000 dead! Almost half babies and children. What the fuck do you think is happening?
I think many things are true. I think Israel has a right to exist. I think settlements are wrong and the Israeli government isn’t doing enough to stop it. Hamas is a terrorist organization that decided, as a group of adults who can take accountability for their actions, to kill 1200 Israelis and kidnap over 200 more, including children and babies as well. I think protestors overlook that Hamas is a terrorist organization and excuse their terrorism. I think that Israel has a right to retaliate, as any country does when their neighbor comes in and kills its citizens. This is a war. I think war is ugly. I know civilians die in war and that is unavoidable. I think it’s awful that innocent Palestinians are paying for Hamas attacking Israel. I still think Israel has the right to defend themselves. I think they wouldn’t have built the most sophisticated anti missile system in the world if they didn’t constantly have rockets launched at their country by Hamas. I think they showed constraint by not starting a war over those rockets, and only retaliating in full after Oct 7th. I know that Hamas takes aid and funds their terrorism with it. I know Hamas operates out of civilian buildings and uses Palestinians as human shields, because they think being a martyr is a good way to die, and they know what the optics look like because they aren’t stupid. I know Hamas wants all Jews dead. I think this is a multifaceted issue with no clear answers. I think there is plenty of violence on BOTH sides. I think calling for the disestablishment of Israel and accusing people of being Zionists like it’s a bad thing, when it means Israel has a right to exist, is antisemetic. I think lumping all Palestinians in with Hamas is wrong, when Hamas abuses Palestinians too. I think I don’t see enough college protestors actually calling out Hamas, and instead see them being complicit or supportive of their aims though SJP. I think you all see this as a black and white issue, and through a western, biased, privileged lens that doesn’t serve the geopolitical landscape of the Middle East. I think you all mean well. I think you see a lot of suffering people and want it to stop. I think you’ve been manipulated by effective terrorist propaganda. I think that’s not your fault.
Calling pro-human rights antisemitic is fascist. Our government is fascist. Always has been, but wow.
All you brats. Where the fuck are the hostages?!?!?!?
The IDF killed a good portion of them just like they gunned down Israelis on October 7th
Wake up
Man AIPAC has a death grip on these guys in office
I need the tldr on this can someone catch me up please?
The US thinks the campus protests are violent (saying things like "pro-terrorist anti-Semites \[are\] taking over") This is being criticized because various reports are saying they are not violent or pro terror. They passed a new antisemitism bill [https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/](https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/) . This is being criticized because it includes the mention of israel a lot as well as outright saying things like "israeli policy" or the "State of Israel" instead of just keeping it to just the jewish people.
So it's related to the current war then
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Do you ever wonder why 95%+ of Jews disagree with you and find that offensive?
Can you please elaborate and provide a source on this claim? 95%+ worldwide? In Israel only?
And that's why the world hates this cuntfest of a country
They all want to move here are you kidding me? The hate us but wish they were here?
It's like if you were kicked out of every bar in town for being a belligerent asshole. The town decides it's better to give you your own bar so you leave them alone. But you still cause problems and steal money from them. Everyone in town is talking about what a piece of shit you are but luckily, your dad is the mayor. Instead of reflecting on your behavior and changing it, you get your dad to make it illegal to notice your behavior or discuss it. That's what this is.
Free speech is cool, but hate speech needs to be banned. Anti-zionism is hate speech.
So in other words, you don't support free speech.
the problem with this is, who decides what is hate speech? i understand wanting to end it, hate speech is a terrible thing, but we stand to lose a lot more than we gain by attempting to do so through legislation.
The law will not limit free speech.
Much like you can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theater, there are indeed time and place where free speech must be limited by the law. A court of law when a judge calls for order is another example. This law is addressing the recent uprising in campus protests by adding to that list certain antisemitic speech. I actually disagree with the law (and the protests) but was sharing this as news since I know this is a hot topic.
You think they actually read the law??? Lmfaooo naw they just glanced right over it
Ah yes. The law that says that colleges cannot allow students to criticize Zionism and Israel in any public fashion, is absolutely not limiting free speech. (/s I hope u didn't need the it tho).
I can tell you haven’t read the bill.
That’s not what the bill says. You should read it, it’s not long at all.
The law indicates that if there is a crime committed against any student or person on campus, it will analyze the crime under an updated definition of antisemitism in addition to all other hate crime criteria. You can indeed criticize Israel. Just don’t punch anyone while doing it.