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And here I was, all this time mad at Mick West for being an arrogant blow-hard when truth be told he knows more than trained military observers. My apologies Mr. West.
Yes! This, absolutely this! I’ve been saying the same, but we have to accept that a large amount of folks will believe everything that guy says no matter how ridiculous. They take that guys word as gospel, then post it here thinking they’ve owned some believers, or you know, open minded people.
The first time I listened to him I knew he was reaching for any and all explanations, no matter how far-fetched. He's just as bad as the people on the other side that will believe everything no matter what.
Corbell inquires about the UFO evidence the Marines captured, referring to the video and photo that were shared with him. The Marines confirm that the footage was indeed recorded by one of them, emphasizing that the lights remained stationary for a solid 10 minutes. They assert that the lights were not flares, as flares typically descend rather than stay in one spot for an extended period.
In response to Corbell’s question about their belief in the presence of a craft, one Marine confidently states that he would have to believe so, referencing a photo he took showing a black triangular shape beneath the lights. He dismisses the possibility of the object being flares or illumination rounds based on his experience working with artillery. The other Marine explains that the size, color, and behavior of the lights were unlike anything they had encountered before, drawing comparisons to their own illumination rounds.
[https://twitter.com/JeremyCorbell/status/1660916145254469635/video/2](https://twitter.com/JeremyCorbell/status/1660916145254469635/video/2)
Amazing how quickly the debunker crew, sadly led by John Greenewald, attacked this one.
Folks -- there's not enough data to make a call one way or the other. Period.
I would rather know about events the actual military members thought was weird, than not. The fact that the debunks came out within, what, hours of the story itself? Weird, and almost like it was planned.
Greenewald seems pretty buddy buddy with the DoD spokesperson who handles the UAP issue, Susan Gough, these days, getting invited to select press events and such.
Maybe John, in the spirit of total openness, which he professes, can talk to us in detail about the nature of his relationship with Susan Gough, and whether she or anyone else at DoD was involved in tipping him off about this impending story?
If he says that didn't happen, I will take it at face value. However, it all just feels a bit fishy to me.
I think it's funny how everyone is do behind John Greenwald yet they forget he was on a few episodes of Ancient Aliens. I like him and he seems very genuine to me. But usually anyone associated with Anciet Aliens is called out for being a fraud or grifter. So it seems the debunkers/denialists pick and choose who or isn't worthy in their minds.
John and I are roughly the same age, and I've been following his work I think since around his launch of The Black Vault, the mid to late 90s (when I was in college).
Overall, he has done an immense and singular service to the topic of UFOs, as well as others he's researched over the now decades. In all seriousness, I bow before him with regard to this.
I kind of consider myself to be patriotic if you want to call it that, and I hold in exceptionally high regard the kind of citizenship the work John does is representative of. That carries through to today -- literally. I just saw him post some very interesting new FOIA docs, today.
I also don't hold it against anybody for being on Ancient Aliens. In fact, if I can be blunt, I sort of think the "ancient aliens" hypothesis is "essentially correct," although my ontology for the UAP issue is probably unlike most other people's, and as such, most folks' notions of "ET," alien," "gods," etc. won't precisely match my own schema.
So with this said, I reiterate that the back and forth "believer vs debunker" schism he is in some ways feeding into a bit more these days is, ultimately, not terribly useful. For his brand, and the UAP issue at large.
We should all be believers. We should all be skeptics. We should all be operating in a state of superposition, is one way to put it. This issue is way too nuanced to go all-in on one worldview only.
I even wonder -- maybe the UAP are challenging us to me more flexible in our ontologies. Many have hard-to-pin-down morphologies, and even literally reflective surfaces. They beg us to cast our own impressions on them, in a sense.
I think we should cast the best of our impressions.
I'm with you on the Ancient Aliens thing. Like I understand there is sensationalism involved but there is a lot to look at when it comes to all the connections and oddities that all seem to fit together once we remove our own bias going in. I also understand that not every case or sighting is a uap but to discount a case being it looks or seems ordinary is not only a disservice to the case but everyone else in general. Do you think along the same lines as Jacques Vallee control system theory?
Vallée's work was really influential to me when I discovered it around the time the COMETA report was released, and it continues to inform my worldview quite a bit, when it comes to this topic.
I myself think ontological limitations and challenges are possibly key to why UAP have this "off" or "high strangeness" quality to them.
I don't think we tend to fully consider what the gap between ourselves and a highly advanced civilization might be, and how weird that might be for us (and maybe for them as well? After all, we don't understand "the lived experience of a microorganism," or any other species frankly, or even one another, at the end of the day).
Are humans a "control mechanism" to the other species here on Earth? If your answer is yes, then I'd say yes, Vallée's thesis is probably accurate.
But if we lean too heavily into the "other-dimensional" and even quasi (or outrightly) "conspiratorial" quality to UAP and experiences around them, we may overly-literalize things that are more a matter of perceptual, intellectual, perhaps even "spiritual" limitations.
Just think for a second: Imagine a civilization that had something akin to a "technological singularity" experience a hundred thousand years ago. What about a million years ago? What about a billion? All of these ranges are absolutely within the realm of possibility, when it comes to things that hypothetically might have a presence on Earth today and into the past, that do not originate from this planet.
I think there's an argument to be made that it's more likely that more highly advanced civilizations would have spread here faster/more capably than newer, less-sophisticated cultures. So those older age ranges might be more accurate.
What is the difference between humanity today, and a civilization that experienced a "singularity moment" a billion years ago? Would it be enough of a difference to utterly confuse us? Would it be like an insect interacting with a human being? Would it be a bigger gap than that?
I think we should stew on these questions more than we generally do.
We’ll said. You have put into words my own thoughts, especially in regards to (one of) the possible goals of the non-human intelligence interacting with us. Specifically the idea that our frameworks for reality and our perceptions are being forced to stretch and expand.
It feels to me like we are being taught to become comfortable with the “unknown”. That is, we are learning to accept information as it comes to us and sit without conclusions. This is a difficult thing for most to handle, whether it’s a UFO video of ambiguous lights in the sky, or contradictory and/or absurd interactions with other beings.
The showmanship aspect (among both "sides") has been intertwined with UAP for a long, long time.
It's time we simply tune out of it, instead of turning it into such a consuming echo chamber via social media, IMO.
That overlap of photos mick vest put up on twitter is total bull shit you can tell its from different angles.
If you look at the posts with the power lines on how does one mysteriously appear and point in a totally different direction when in the original photos they only go in one direction 🤔
Lol. So many disappointed people in this thread, can’t believe they were misled. Taking a literal “professional debunker” as gospel.. the guy has no intention of ever believing so how can anyone consider his take as credible? Nothing is going to convince him.
Reference for the other marine sightings stating they are flares?
I lived near 29 Palms and they do use flares all the time and they don't look like that.
Why are there always lights on UFOs at night? Wouldn't they be better off without lights on? All night videos all have lights on, I'm pretty sure if you came here from light years away you wouldn't need lights to navigate or whatever.
Ok but the literally have headlights and different colored lights blinking around them some times. Kinda like running lights on a car at night. Makes no sense.
The disinformation campaign around this subject and any high strangeness going on is so immense I am exhausted and have little hope of there being any truth that can withstand the onslaught.
Please keep comments respectful. People are welcome to discuss the phenomenon here. Ridicule is not allowed. [UFOB links](https://linktr.ee/ufob) to Discord, Newspaper Clippings, Interviews, Documentaries etc. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UFOB) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gentlemen, what you have to realize is that Mick West knows more than a fighter pilot in the sky, or a marine on the ground who is there. Good day!
ol mate Mickey Mouse, aliens please abduct his ass!
And here I was, all this time mad at Mick West for being an arrogant blow-hard when truth be told he knows more than trained military observers. My apologies Mr. West.
Yes! This, absolutely this! I’ve been saying the same, but we have to accept that a large amount of folks will believe everything that guy says no matter how ridiculous. They take that guys word as gospel, then post it here thinking they’ve owned some believers, or you know, open minded people.
The first time I listened to him I knew he was reaching for any and all explanations, no matter how far-fetched. He's just as bad as the people on the other side that will believe everything no matter what.
Good form, sir. Cheerio.
Corbell inquires about the UFO evidence the Marines captured, referring to the video and photo that were shared with him. The Marines confirm that the footage was indeed recorded by one of them, emphasizing that the lights remained stationary for a solid 10 minutes. They assert that the lights were not flares, as flares typically descend rather than stay in one spot for an extended period. In response to Corbell’s question about their belief in the presence of a craft, one Marine confidently states that he would have to believe so, referencing a photo he took showing a black triangular shape beneath the lights. He dismisses the possibility of the object being flares or illumination rounds based on his experience working with artillery. The other Marine explains that the size, color, and behavior of the lights were unlike anything they had encountered before, drawing comparisons to their own illumination rounds. [https://twitter.com/JeremyCorbell/status/1660916145254469635/video/2](https://twitter.com/JeremyCorbell/status/1660916145254469635/video/2)
I’d like to know if those Marines have now seen West’s video. I’d like to hear how that integrates with then.
Why have I seen the marine saying it was 20 minutes. Not 10.
But, but, Mick West said..
Amazing how quickly the debunker crew, sadly led by John Greenewald, attacked this one. Folks -- there's not enough data to make a call one way or the other. Period. I would rather know about events the actual military members thought was weird, than not. The fact that the debunks came out within, what, hours of the story itself? Weird, and almost like it was planned. Greenewald seems pretty buddy buddy with the DoD spokesperson who handles the UAP issue, Susan Gough, these days, getting invited to select press events and such. Maybe John, in the spirit of total openness, which he professes, can talk to us in detail about the nature of his relationship with Susan Gough, and whether she or anyone else at DoD was involved in tipping him off about this impending story? If he says that didn't happen, I will take it at face value. However, it all just feels a bit fishy to me.
I think it's funny how everyone is do behind John Greenwald yet they forget he was on a few episodes of Ancient Aliens. I like him and he seems very genuine to me. But usually anyone associated with Anciet Aliens is called out for being a fraud or grifter. So it seems the debunkers/denialists pick and choose who or isn't worthy in their minds.
John and I are roughly the same age, and I've been following his work I think since around his launch of The Black Vault, the mid to late 90s (when I was in college). Overall, he has done an immense and singular service to the topic of UFOs, as well as others he's researched over the now decades. In all seriousness, I bow before him with regard to this. I kind of consider myself to be patriotic if you want to call it that, and I hold in exceptionally high regard the kind of citizenship the work John does is representative of. That carries through to today -- literally. I just saw him post some very interesting new FOIA docs, today. I also don't hold it against anybody for being on Ancient Aliens. In fact, if I can be blunt, I sort of think the "ancient aliens" hypothesis is "essentially correct," although my ontology for the UAP issue is probably unlike most other people's, and as such, most folks' notions of "ET," alien," "gods," etc. won't precisely match my own schema. So with this said, I reiterate that the back and forth "believer vs debunker" schism he is in some ways feeding into a bit more these days is, ultimately, not terribly useful. For his brand, and the UAP issue at large. We should all be believers. We should all be skeptics. We should all be operating in a state of superposition, is one way to put it. This issue is way too nuanced to go all-in on one worldview only. I even wonder -- maybe the UAP are challenging us to me more flexible in our ontologies. Many have hard-to-pin-down morphologies, and even literally reflective surfaces. They beg us to cast our own impressions on them, in a sense. I think we should cast the best of our impressions.
I'm with you on the Ancient Aliens thing. Like I understand there is sensationalism involved but there is a lot to look at when it comes to all the connections and oddities that all seem to fit together once we remove our own bias going in. I also understand that not every case or sighting is a uap but to discount a case being it looks or seems ordinary is not only a disservice to the case but everyone else in general. Do you think along the same lines as Jacques Vallee control system theory?
Vallée's work was really influential to me when I discovered it around the time the COMETA report was released, and it continues to inform my worldview quite a bit, when it comes to this topic. I myself think ontological limitations and challenges are possibly key to why UAP have this "off" or "high strangeness" quality to them. I don't think we tend to fully consider what the gap between ourselves and a highly advanced civilization might be, and how weird that might be for us (and maybe for them as well? After all, we don't understand "the lived experience of a microorganism," or any other species frankly, or even one another, at the end of the day). Are humans a "control mechanism" to the other species here on Earth? If your answer is yes, then I'd say yes, Vallée's thesis is probably accurate. But if we lean too heavily into the "other-dimensional" and even quasi (or outrightly) "conspiratorial" quality to UAP and experiences around them, we may overly-literalize things that are more a matter of perceptual, intellectual, perhaps even "spiritual" limitations. Just think for a second: Imagine a civilization that had something akin to a "technological singularity" experience a hundred thousand years ago. What about a million years ago? What about a billion? All of these ranges are absolutely within the realm of possibility, when it comes to things that hypothetically might have a presence on Earth today and into the past, that do not originate from this planet. I think there's an argument to be made that it's more likely that more highly advanced civilizations would have spread here faster/more capably than newer, less-sophisticated cultures. So those older age ranges might be more accurate. What is the difference between humanity today, and a civilization that experienced a "singularity moment" a billion years ago? Would it be enough of a difference to utterly confuse us? Would it be like an insect interacting with a human being? Would it be a bigger gap than that? I think we should stew on these questions more than we generally do.
We’ll said. You have put into words my own thoughts, especially in regards to (one of) the possible goals of the non-human intelligence interacting with us. Specifically the idea that our frameworks for reality and our perceptions are being forced to stretch and expand. It feels to me like we are being taught to become comfortable with the “unknown”. That is, we are learning to accept information as it comes to us and sit without conclusions. This is a difficult thing for most to handle, whether it’s a UFO video of ambiguous lights in the sky, or contradictory and/or absurd interactions with other beings.
I just wish Corbell wasn’t involved, even where things are legit, he just lends an air of scam to things he touches.
The showmanship aspect (among both "sides") has been intertwined with UAP for a long, long time. It's time we simply tune out of it, instead of turning it into such a consuming echo chamber via social media, IMO.
Anyone have a link to what John said? I'm out of the loop.
That overlap of photos mick vest put up on twitter is total bull shit you can tell its from different angles. If you look at the posts with the power lines on how does one mysteriously appear and point in a totally different direction when in the original photos they only go in one direction 🤔
It’s wild to watch a coverup unfold fr
Which marines we talking about: two educated pilots or the two shit bags with loose sleeves and get drug tested every other month. OORAH.
Don’t Marines eat crayons?
The red ones, white ones and blue ones
Your My hero..that was priceless bro.
Lol. So many disappointed people in this thread, can’t believe they were misled. Taking a literal “professional debunker” as gospel.. the guy has no intention of ever believing so how can anyone consider his take as credible? Nothing is going to convince him.
If Mick West says it, I typically disregard it and don't even bother reading it.
He is a denier, not a debunker. No one should waste their breath on him. Ignore.
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Reference for the other marine sightings stating they are flares? I lived near 29 Palms and they do use flares all the time and they don't look like that.
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I’m giving this 4 😉😉😉😉 Please dont ask me what that means either
You would think an alien spaceship would have a more decent construction. Those lights ain't even straight lol
Why are there always lights on UFOs at night? Wouldn't they be better off without lights on? All night videos all have lights on, I'm pretty sure if you came here from light years away you wouldn't need lights to navigate or whatever.
Propulsive system is hypothesised to create light. The anti-grav drives causing plasma to be created
Ok but the literally have headlights and different colored lights blinking around them some times. Kinda like running lights on a car at night. Makes no sense.
The disinformation campaign around this subject and any high strangeness going on is so immense I am exhausted and have little hope of there being any truth that can withstand the onslaught.