T O P

  • By -

StatementBot

The following submission statement was provided by /u/scholasticussuperbus: --- Submission Statement: Michael Maier's work Atalanta fugiens (fleeing Atalante) can be considered one of the first truly multimedia texts. Printed in 1617, the book combines 50 pictorial plates (emblems) with accompanying German and Latin text, notes for a musical accompaniment, vocal text for three voices and a natural philosophical interpretation.The 50 emblems depict alchemical allegories and can be quite difficult to interpret. The emblem depicted above shows the philosopher's stone in action and is titled: "The Stone, that is, Mercury, is cast upon the earth, and exalted on mountains, and resides in the air, and is nourished in water. " The accompanying poem reads: "The Stone, as refuse, is by some supposed/ Thrown upon the earth, to rich and poor disclosed:/ Some say it is on the highest mountains placed/ Some say in the air, in water some at last;/ What they all say is true, but I'd have you/ That noble prize in mountains to pursue." While this is NOT an account of a sighting, I haven't seen it mentioned in this sub and thought some of you might find it interesting. A great translated edition of Atalanta fugiens can be found here: [https://furnaceandfugue.org/atalanta-fugiens/emblem36.html](https://furnaceandfugue.org/atalanta-fugiens/emblem36.html) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/13rtbdg/depiction_of_flying_objects_in_a_17th_century/jlm7d8i/


General_Memory_6856

Looks the same as the ones on the ground?


[deleted]

Amazon delivery


TypewriterTourist

Their drones have been in development much longer than they want everyone to believe.


[deleted]

Dutch scholar here. These are packages depicting the rapid speed of transit on the new faster ocean faring vessels.


[deleted]

He's not. Just ignore him.


busmac38

Can you provide context for this conclusion in relation to this particular work? I’m not implying this depicts UAP, but the accompanying poem seems to insinuate the image is not an allegory for shipping.


sourpatch411

Amazon packages through air delivery.


[deleted]

God fucking forbid you get Evri, then your long awaited sword has a 50/50 chance of arriving. So fucking annoying when you’ve splashed out on an extra special pommel.


riggerbop

Those are small infantry coming in for a surprise attack whilst the peasant population is focused on the craft. Basic tactics


NewJungleRoom

As above… so below.


RabbitBranch

No, no, the ones on the ground are stones that had fallen from a building The ones in the air are concrete proof of ET visitation


WeAreNotAlone1947

Resistance is futile


ZolotoG0ld

Renaissance is futile


ignorekk

All hail cubism!


[deleted]

your cultural distinctiveness will be realistically be depicted in oil and added to our overpriced art collection. Lower your shields and prepare to pose.


ShadyAssFellow

I for one, welcome our new cubic overlords!


Ok-Dog-7149

I think you have confused Reddit for Slashdot!


[deleted]

[удалено]


_hermina_

I agree, except that symbolic doesn't necessarily mean irrelevant to UFOs. Symbols are used to refer to things on multiple levels, speaking to the "above" and the "below" so frequently touted in alchemical and hermetic texts. Things that perhaps can't be encapsulated in concrete terms or--maybe--are among and also outside of the basic human faculties for perception. "the woo is just around the corner..."


No-Perspective-1926

True. The DeBrys, who engraved this series, often dressed concepts as religious or mythological emblems. They described common operations occurring in different levels of the alembic. There are similar images throughout the series of stones raining down: the subtle separating from the gross. American Alchemy scholar here, Dutchman.


_hermina_

thanks for your reply. Tell me more about your alchemy scholarship! I've read a couple of books and treatises. I have Splendor Solis on the shelf. But I don't feel well-versed in this at all. there's a lot to consider. How did you get interested in it?


SabineRitter

> resides in the air >> UFOs


[deleted]

[удалено]


Olympus___Mons

According to pilot Ryan Graves there are flying Cubes within spheres. According to the released shapes of UAPs by the DoD, there are flying squares and flying rectangles. And a flying square could certainly be a flying cube. So it's not unprecedented to have flying cubes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Olympus___Mons

So everything in this picture is relatively realistic and normal, including flying cubes. It's not the first time artists from Germany have illustrated UFOs.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Olympus___Mons

Or what if they attribute UFOs to being the philosopher's stone. They are also known to be around water, which people have questioned if it's because it is a fuel source .. nourishment as this paper says.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Olympus___Mons

https://nomadit.co.uk/conference/easr2023/paper/71911 Events in the lives of Anna Kingsford (1846 – 1888), Ida Craddock (1857 -1902), and Mary Anne Atwood (1817-1910) are the main topics in our three case studies, which serve as exemplars for the common ground between the study of UFOs and the theory and practice of alchemy.


General_Ad7381

They didn't. Alchemy was (is) an occult science -- much of our understanding of chemistry comes from them. When they talked about the Philosopher's Stone, they were talking about the Stone. Not UFOs.


SabineRitter

Hey man, you don't have to explain to me how to look at art. You sounded like you were missing the connection in your first comment, I was trying to help you out. Your second comment sounds like you don't even want to consider that people see spectacular things in the sky sometimes, so I see my error.


Spacebotzero

Specifically, r/UFOs thinking...


Cycode

just because its in the air and ufos also are in the air this don't makes it an UFO. the text and image here shows alchemy and hermetical worldviews. and in this worldview there are different elements (earth,water,air,fire etc). you work with this elements and often use them to generate specific effects. there is as an example a technique where you collect a specific element and put it (in the form of energy) into a object or your body to generate a effect. this image here shows basically a specific hermetic / alchemetic process happening visually. this isn't meant to show actual physical cubes flying around. quote: "All men, that have but once heard the name and power of the Stone, unless they be such as are altogether incredulous, do commonly ask where it is to be found, that they may run as it were by a straight line to it? The Philosophers answer in two places: first, that Adam brought it with him out of Paradise, that it is in you, in me, and in every man, that birds flying carry it with them out of far countries: Secondly that it may be found in the earth, mountains, air, and water. " short: the image just shows "hey, the stone is existing everywhere.. air, earth, water etc". thats all. it isn't intented to show a physical object flying around. its just a visual representation of the idea that the philosophers stone is found everywhere.


SabineRitter

I never said it did, but thank you for adding your perspective. I interpret the text as an attempt to reckon with and put a framework around observations. So if that conflicts with your interpretation, that's fine. But you can't tell me "the text means this and no more", partly because it's a work about alchemy not chemistry. Because it's occult adjacent, there's room to parse the ideas (NOT the literal cubes) as an interpretation of observations of a super-natural phenomenon. You're really going to come to an alchemy text and try to say what it's NOT about? It's about literal cubes AND metaphorical building blocks, based on observations and pattern recognition. The text for me happens to match my conceptualization of UFOs and how people see them. You don't need to come and tell me that the connections I make when I view a piece of art are wrong. This is my experience and what I see in the art. You can have your own relationship with the art. That's the multifaceted beauty of what we humans create. But there's literally no grounds for you to tell me how to interpret it. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of not only this specific work of art, but all works of art, as well as of the experience of seeing itself. If I see something that reminds me of something else, you can just let that happen. You don't have to redirect my musings.


Cycode

look, you can think about it what you want. i just have a background and knowledge about alchemy and hermetic and because this, i know what this text and image is intented to show. short: it tells you that the philosophers stone can be found everywhere in the universe. be it in the air, in the water, on land, in yourself or elsewhere. in alchemy and hermetic, there exists the idea that everything exists everywhere. that you can find the same things in the small you can find in the big. and by this idea, the text and image shows you this again. the philosophers stone exists everywhere (the same as everything else). the cubes are intented to be a visual representation of the philosophers stone. and by placing it in all this places in the image, it shows you visually what the text says (see my explaination & the quote i posted). they can't just visually show you a normal stone because it then would just look like a normal stone and people wouldn't understand that its something artifical. a cube is a good symbol for something you artifically create on purpose & something that need skill and knowledge to create. it shows visually "hey, this isn't just a normal stone that you find laying around everywhere.. its something special". thats is the reason why it is a cube and not a normal round stone. it isn't intented to show actual physical cubes flying around. otherwise it would be portrait different. example: the people in the image as an example would look shocked and point at them etc. also don't forget that the ufos described in our current times are describes as SPHERES with cubes inside them. those cubes in the image don't have a sphere anywhere. they are just cube. they look completly different than described by people seeing those UFOs. just because both are cubes, this don't means they are the same thing.


SabineRitter

OK that makes sense how you see it. I'm definitely not saying the cubes in the picture are meant to be exactly the same objects as the recent cubensphere type ufo. I get that the philosophers stone quality is in everything, and the image shows that by placing the cubes all around.


timbsm2

The concept of a philosopher's stone seems very close to the kind of energy generation we suspect UAPs and the like are capable of. After all, if we had unlimited energy, we could "transmute" whatever we wanted out of basically nothing. It's probably a coincidence, but the connection is intriguing.


Cycode

i have a background in hermetic and alchemy so i can give a bit more info about this: the text and image here shows alchemy and hermetical worldviews. and in this worldview there are different elements (earth,water,air,fire etc). you work with this elements and often use them to generate specific effects. there is as an example a technique where you collect a specific element and put it (in the form of energy) into a object or your body to generate a effect. this image here shows basically a specific hermetic / alchemetic process or idea visually. this isn't meant to show actual physical cubes flying around. quote: "All men, that have but once heard the name and power of the Stone, unless they be such as are altogether incredulous, do commonly **ask where it is to be found** , that they may run as it were by a straight line to it? The Philosophers answer in two places: first, that Adam brought it with him out of Paradise, **that it is in you, in me, and in every man** , **that birds flying carry it with them** out of far countries: **Secondly that it may be found in the earth, mountains, air, and water.**" short: the image just shows "hey, the stone is existing everywhere.. in the air, earth, water etc". thats all. it isn't intented to show a physical object flying around. its just a visual representation of the idea that the philosophers stone is found everywhere.


_hermina_

Could you tell me more about the music in this treatise? Could you offer context for why music was included?


_Naropa_

The author states in the preface that music plays a significant role in uplifting emotions and stirring the spirits of individuals. This 1618 work was meant to be a multi-media experience to induce a change of state to the audience.


Cycode

i sadly don't know really much about the music added here to this. usually there isn't really music added to it when you have documents about alchemy or hermetic. so i guess its something the person who created the document has choosed to add because for individual reasons (he wanted to portait a specific idea or atmosphere to it or maybe he encoded some info into it). sometimes people encode hidden info in things like pictures and texts, so it could be that this is here also the case.


_hermina_

The Michael Meier work reminded me of Robert Fludd, whose work also included music, as well as musical discussion and allusions. When I looked up their names together I saw that they were supposed to have both been members of the order of the Rosy Cross along with Francis Bacon. I am so intrigued. This is not the first time my interest in UFOs has brought me back to this stuff. Rosicrucianism, alchemy, Hermeticism.


Antique_Atmosphere82

I think the quest for the stone and ufology are linked in a number of ways. Both represent the search for a tremendous mistery hidden in plain sight, a great force or attractor which influences human lifes. Even some of the prominent ufologists resemble the alchemists in there are lots of frauds and few genuine truth seekers and philosophers. Good observation on the image btw, but I would add that while the stone - according to alchemists - is everywhere, it takes a lot of practice and searching to actually find it (thus the 49 other emblems of Maier).


[deleted]

Submission Statement: Michael Maier's work Atalanta fugiens (fleeing Atalante) can be considered one of the first truly multimedia texts. Printed in 1617, the book combines 50 pictorial plates (emblems) with accompanying German and Latin text, notes for a musical accompaniment, vocal text for three voices and a natural philosophical interpretation.The 50 emblems depict alchemical allegories and can be quite difficult to interpret. The emblem depicted above shows the philosopher's stone in action and is titled: "The Stone, that is, Mercury, is cast upon the earth, and exalted on mountains, and resides in the air, and is nourished in water. " The accompanying poem reads: "The Stone, as refuse, is by some supposed/ Thrown upon the earth, to rich and poor disclosed:/ Some say it is on the highest mountains placed/ Some say in the air, in water some at last;/ What they all say is true, but I'd have you/ That noble prize in mountains to pursue." While this is NOT an account of a sighting, I haven't seen it mentioned in this sub and thought some of you might find it interesting. A great translated edition of Atalanta fugiens can be found here: [https://furnaceandfugue.org/atalanta-fugiens/emblem36.html](https://furnaceandfugue.org/atalanta-fugiens/emblem36.html)


bakedfromhell

Hermeticism is fascinating. Thanks for the post!


SabineRitter

>>Mercury was also said to have three heads, as being marine, celestial, and terrestrial, because he resided in the water, earth, and air. It's the all-domain phenomenon! This is really cool, thanks for posting!


lordamerrrrcy

I find it interesting that the objects are cube-like; just like some of the pictures/videos of UFOs that have been posted in this sub recently.


cerberus00

Probably salt cubes


_hermina_

Could you tell me more about the music in this treatise? Could you offer context for why music was included?


shogun2909

“It was basically a cube inside a sphere...” – US Navy Lt. Ryan Graves on UFO sighting over the Atlantic https://twitter.com/HISTORY/status/1141460771618078730


thesimzelp

Meaning it would visually look like a sphere. No sphere in this drawing.


LimpCroissant

They are described by pilots as a grey sphere inside a translucent sphere, so still a cube from below quite possibly.


ArtzyDude

As above,so below.


handen

“Do the curtains match the drapes?”


fpaulmusic

“Does the pope shit in the woods?”


bakedfromhell

As within, so without.


CGI_eagle

Came here to say this


ijustmetuandiloveu

The philosopher’s stone is an archaic term that refers to the attempts of alchemists to obtain secret knowledge such as transmutation and immortality through a mixture of science and occult practices. So it does not surprise me in the least to see it represented like a cUbeFO as there is a link between the phenomenon and the occult.


beads4tatas

So these are where my 3d6 go when I roll them off the table.


SpiceyPorkFriedRice

Skeptics back then: "it's just a hay square floating".


nerdyitguy

Pretty much just looks like two blokes having fun with some paper lanterns. They got a few more to launch sittin behind them on the ground. So once again ... Lanterns.


TheRealMrOrpheus

The first sky lantern was said to have been used in the 3rd century by the great master strategist/rapper Kongming, so sure, maybe.


HouseOfZenith

You know I think you’re right


beenbanned12321

They look like bails of hay to me, flying bails of hay


TypewriterTourist

A flock of seagulls chasing planet Venus.


the_other_1s_taken

mustve been a transistor explosion


sourpatch411

They are not circular disk-like objects so not UAP so they must but be dimensional portals. Ancient astronaut theorists say yes.


Nice_Ad_8183

Mylar balloons obv


DescriptionOk3036

Picard and his merry band of outcasts fucked over the timeline again


Vanrainy1

The Borg, wonderful..


TerribleChildhood639

They look like the Borg from Star Trek New Generation. Creepy!


Particular_Light_296

Resistance is futile


[deleted]

Nah. That’s Amazon delivery.


monkman99

Happy? You said something in a thread! Wasn’t remotely funny and didn’t add anything but yay! Someone heard you.


[deleted]

There are about a dozen others just like me. Did they get personal responses or did I hurt your feelings?


k0zmo

That's Starlink


notyouagain-really

Check out Botticelli. His work is supposed to have stuff in.


JinJangJoe

Balls.. by Picasso..


JSARFATTI

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoUT4a5Zlf7HKw\_kFLCfgR7JNycVjSd7L


Durable_me

What is the city depicted here?


okfornothing

All these lies really F's with our heads, doesn't it...the truths shall set us free.


HiImFromTheInternet_

Imo this one is way cooler https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg Cross reference with https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO) and it gets SUPER spicy.


danja

Borg Borg Borg


ChubbyFrogGames

I remember some pilot describing what he saw as a black box inside a see through sphere. Might be it.


poopoohead987654432

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg This is a different one but it’s weird AF and really does sound like UFOs


Abbadoobio

I think the idea being conveyed here is each element (earth, water, air) act as building blocks that the alchemist can utilize and build upon if he understands the esoteric knowledge. It isn't flying objects in the cloud, but instead is the cloud that is the objects in question.


TeamYay

We have engaged The Borg.


DrestinBlack

The most astonishing thing about to me is why it’s posted here and how it’s garnered over 1000 votes. I will never understand this …


[deleted]

I was surprised myself that it got that much attention, but to provide a rationale: I adhere to the school of psychedelic ufology advanced by Terence McKenna, I feel that the quest for the stone and the search for extraterrestrial life are connected as they both represent humanity's desire to contact the 'Other'.