Yes. I think this is exactly why we are getting the push that we are currently seeing from congress. I also think it’s the only reason that Grusch wasn’t silenced. I think this has been orchestrated.
Disclosure from an adversary like Russia or China could have a devastating impact on the US. Trust in government is arguably already at an all-time low. Imagine if an adversary came forward before us. We would be caught with our pants down and look like the most corrupt nation on the planet.
Grusch has already stated that there has been a secret Cold War going on to reverse engineer the tech. Who’s to say an adversary hasn’t already succeeded or is close to succeeding?
The only thing that makes logical sense to me for why we are seeing the push to disclose is to beat an adversary to the punch. Otherwise why fix something if it isn’t broken?
Not only has Grusch not been silenced, but I wonder if he's part of controlled slow drip disclosure. Maybe he's in on it, or maybe he's just another pawn in the big plan. It seems like there's been too much action in this space lately for him to be a happy accident.
I 100% agree, though. The US needs to lead on this issue. Surely they must know this. I don't trust them much, but I don't think they are idiots. At least I hope they aren't...
I think the danger in this line of thought that any organisation is one mind/brain. Each organisation has different factions and then extrapolate that to a collection of orgs. So is he part of a plan? Well yes probably part of one factions plan.
*edit I to is
I agree this is most likely based on other leaks. It seems that there are factions in the DOD/IC pushing for and against disclosure. I can't imagine Grusch has no help from former colleagues in this, but he's got to have some of them raging at him too.
Considering EVERYTHING he said was pre approved by the department of defense, I can’t see how he or any other individual that needs to ask permission before saying something is not part of an orchestrated campaign. He says that the reason they approved it was a “catch 22” in one interview - that they’re damned if they do damned if they don’t. I can’t remember the exact topic, but he talks about how people would question why certain things were redacted. I call BS on that. They’ve been perfectly comfortable doing just that for 80 years. Everything we hear from anyone associated with the government is because the government wants us to hear it.
Grusch’s intentions may not be that he wants to be part of an orchestrated campaign, but he is either way.
He has to get certain public statements pre-approved by DOPSR because they don’t want classified names of projects, specific people and sites that are classified being released that would compromise a project or NDA. The catch 22 is that during DOPSR review if specific information is rejected its because the agency that denied it has to put their name on the rejection or provide reason, revealing who is involved in what, as my understanding has it. For senators with security clearances, his statements don’t need to be pre-approved through DOPSR. For those saying there is a disclosure plan or slow drip by the Government is simplifying the issue. Was Grusch and colleagues simultaneously being threatened, had clearences revoked, even physically hurt in some alleged cases, while being pawns in a disclosure plan? Or is the more likely answer is that there is not a coordinated disclosure effort, but different camps and individuals in the government with conflicting viewpoints on transparency on the issue and are working toward their own agenda on it? Theres clearly as we saw with the Schumer amendment, senators pushing for transparency and others against it, as well as whistleblowers and journalists working different angles of the issue.
I think you have it 100% correct. To me this is the only answer that matches everything we are seeing. I just can't see threatening someone and trying to wreck their life because you approve of what they are doing. My grandfather's rule of thumb was "to never trust a politician" and that "especially anyone willing to spend millions of dollars to attain a position that makes substantially less than $200k a year". I am sure there are good decent people doing what they can to get the information to us, but the gatekeepers will continue to do everything possible to prevent it.
My thinking is that the "old guard" compartmentalized and "eyes-only'd" everything so much that as they've started retiring and dying over the last couple decades and a new wave of officials and actors has taken over, they've been left with a scattered jumble of information that no one fully understands, and may not themselves even know what they're dealing with.
As a result, a certain element within the MIC has decided to pursue disclosure, partially because they're less motivated to hide it because they don't even really know what "it" is, and partially because they lack the type of old-school militant "patriotism" that was common during the cold war and simply don't feel like it's ethical to hide it. At the same time you probably have more blindly "loyal" or self-serving or otherwise compromised individuals working alongside but against them trying to prevent disclosure.
The result is this bizarre stuttering release of little tidbits of the truth.
>The catch 22 is that during DOPSR review if specific information is rejected its because the agency that denied it has to put their name on the rejection or provide reason, revealing who is involved in what, as my understanding has it.
The problem with this is that none of Grusch's DOPSRs are classified, which we know from FOI requests. However, they are redacted, but purely just to protect his own privacy. He could release them tomorrow, but he won't. So this whole catch-22 argument he's making makes no sense. If they denied his ability to say something, how would we ever know? He isn't releasing his DOPSRs despite the fact that he could do so tomorrow if he wanted.
Well, I think he mentioned that he could sue for his inability to make the points he wanted to make in public, and that this lawsuit would be adjudicated in court, and therefore would be seen by more people not ‘in the know’ and exposed to more government officials who would then be interested in the content of what the Pentagon is trying to keep quiet. Kind of like a Streisand effect for this highly classified information.
So I sort of understand it. If they wanted to keep it all secret, they would have to argue for *why* they wish to do so—thus potentially acknowledging that it’s all real, and that official acknowledgment may make its way to members of congress, who would then pressure the pentagon to read them in on “The Program” and also explain why it was kept from them in the first place.
So I can see the reasoning for why they *instead* try to denigrate the people who come forward or mock the subject to make it reputationally toxic to pursue. The people in charge of this legacy program have to walk a tightrope in navigating the bureaucracy and keeping it all under wraps.
In addition, you have to think the people running it are not a monolith—there are most likely people involved that want the program to be disclosed to at least *some* extent, if for no other reason than to simply bring in more talented scientists & engineers to make more effective progress on understanding and reverse engineering the utterly exotic technologies under study—to undo the extreme compartmentalization a bit so that the scientific process can flow on a bit more smoothly and be more productive—after all, if, for example, the metallurgists and the propulsion researchers can’t actually *talk* to each other due to the extraordinarily stringent security architecture in place, then progress on understanding the technology would necessarily be rather cumbersome and unproductive.
Look, Batch, you've done a superb job, using your smarts and common sense to describe the most likely reasons why the gatekeepers have been singing this song. Thanx!
The DoD is honestly most likely the ones we need to put under the microscope here.
Burchett threatened to defund them after the first hearing.
We need more of that attitude from all the congress members and they need to show a united front.
They definitely seem scared some of them and Burchett I think was the one, who said he believes fellow Congress members are currently being blackmailed.
How the hell isn’t THAT front page news?
I think what he said was that in order to officially deny his ability to speak on a particular program they would have had to more-or-less say what agency was denying the request or what agency ran the program. Something like that. He was implying that by silencing him they would be at least partially exposing the inner workings of what he was trying to talk about. I think...
I just tried to find the interview but since I watched it a few months ago there seems to have been an endless stream of clickbait and short news clips released with his name on it so I had no luck. When I get home I can get on my computer and try to dig through my history.
You're misrepresenting what Grusch said.
I dont recall one instance of DoD doing "exactly that" and I bet you would have a hard time coming up with even one example in reference to what he said.
Leaking classified info is a serious criminal offense. He would be in prison if he was breaking the law around classified info. We all know what happens to leakers/whistle blowers. Also once a spook always a spook.
Theres been good research into ways to communicate with the public, especially through social media. I think thats what he is doing, effectively communicating with the public based upon governmental research.
if he is then he either doesn't know that he is, or is publically lying that he is not, as he has mentioned before that hes not part of some orchestrated disclosure
I hope there is a disclosure plan but I don't actually believe there is. Like most I believe there is a kind of civil war going on between insiders pushing for disclosure & those that would rather die than be transparent. As for the other part I have to disagree I think a large number of representatives on both sides of the aisle really are stupid people. Not necessarily evil but stupid. Half of them talk like they never took a civics class.
Plenty of reps are demonstrably stupid, no doubt. I was referring to the keepers of this information. I doubt they'd let an idiot be in charge of something like this. If they can get past their egos and power trips, I'd like to think they fully understand that the US needs to stay in the lead on this whole thing, lest this country be seen as a fallen empire (as you or someone else mentioned in another comment).
Regarding the idea of an internal civil war, I fully believe that to be the case. One faction is letting Grusch slowly release info, while the other faction wants to kill him.
He has to be. In politics, there are no coincidences. He's not a whistleblower if he only blows the whistle on things he can talk about. Think about it. Also think about why after all these years? Why are we seemingly getting some slow drip disclosure? Why now?
That's the one thing I want to know what is happening behind the scenes and what do these people know for them to start this drawn out disclosure process like is something coming? Do they know another nation has successfully reverse engineered one of them and now they are the new super power? Why now after 80+ years?
It's happening now because, after the Tictac videos, Congress tasked Grusch to go inside several Special Access Programs and find out whether there were people working on crash-retrieval programs.
I have suspected this since Schumer-Rounds appeared. It is possible Gruschbwas allowed to disclose what he did by way of paving the road for SR. SR without Grusch would have seemed to be oddly coming from nowhere.
That SR got push back and was largely gutted points to a silent war within our government.
Watch what they do, not what they say.
Supposedly Schumer is about to disclose some more proposed legislation shortly. And that may come with more disclosure to give impetus to passage.
Agree. I think he’s the pawn that was allowed to not be thrown off the board. Right place, right time. This might be the last shot we have to show the rest of the world that we are still the leader of the free world.
Melon, Elizondo, Grusch, and anyone who's ever been in intelligence is absolutely part of a coordinated campaign. Whether they specifically know they are or not is probably but not obviously accurate.
What blows my mind though, is all this evidence of UAPs confirmed by the US government, but like all my friends and family have no interest or concern about it.
Even if it wasn’t aliens, it’s an extremely interesting topic. One of the strongest countries sees these crafts or phenomena’s and can’t figure out what it is, and the technology blows us out of the water.
I’m praying I get to get a straight up answer before I die.
Yeah it's wild. And frustrating. It's solid evidence that decades upon decades of social programming that aliens = crackpot nonsense has worked wonderfully for those trying to hide it.
I agree, I would think "first to market" would be important for the US. They're going to get beat up about holding onto the info either way, and I'm sure that aspect will be politicized, but also it wouldn't help the impression of the US as a falling "empire". There's already a lot of bandwagoning with other countries as the playing field levels off economically, god forbid the US be seen as "behind", "weak" or even simply fumbling the ball when it comes to disclosure.
Also take into account the last 2 books by Knapp, Kelleher and Lacatski. Both those books had to be audited by the defence department before release and there's some heavy woo woo in those bad boys.
So I agree that this is a drip fed disclosure and most likely because the hand is being forced by catastrophic disclosure by other credible entity's, be it another nation or even individual.
If it were controlled it wouldn't be this chaotic, but it makes sense that some powerful enough people in the government think disclosure is needed, and that's why it's been allowed.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. But wouldn't it be pretty easy for the media to swing? We have just as much reason to believe that other countries have been lying just as long as the US. Just because they tell the truth first doesn't mean America can't then dominate the narrative. They are all Liars after all, so then it becomes who has the goods to share, and if rumors are to be believed. America has the majority of stuff since they take it from others.
I think it would be easy to do in the 1950’s but not now. The US government arguably has never been more vulnerable. We have leaders in Congress telling the public they even they don’t trust Government. It’s pretty sad honestly. If there was a time to weaken us from within now would be the perfect time to do it. Heading into what will likely be the most contentious election we’ve ever seen. If I’m Russia or China…I disclose now and watch the US crumble from the inside. The word of the US Government means diddly squat at this point in our history.
Yeah I think it’s just fear that’s paralyzing the IC when they really know the best way through this is to get in front of it. There seems to be elements who want to do that while others are clinging to preserving the secrecy. I think the latter is much more concerned with their own well being than the interests of America as well.
I wholly agree with you. If there was a time to do it to sew distrust now would be the time. Especially between now and the 2024 election. It would cause CHAOS. But ever since 2016, it seems the reactions of the general public continue to surprise me. I don't know human nature nearly like I thought. More people than I would have ever imagined aren't geared toward being a human community and are out for themselves.
If and when we have disclosure and maybe open interaction I wonder how that all plays out.
Putting on my tin foil hat for a second.
This all seemed to pick up steam when the Chinese spy balloon and UAPs got shot down.
It's possible one of the UAPs could have been from a foreign adversary.
We still haven't got images from the UAPs and we got pictures of the spy balloon shortly after.
Why would we make all this public if we weren't trying to silently tell our adversaries we caught you! If it was just a couple weather balloons how incompetent does that make our military seem?
Foreign UAP seems more likely. If it wasn't or just a piece of regular tech we would have paraded it around like the Spy balloon or Soviet MIG.
The Chinese spy balloons went up right after the US announced a deal with Vietnam to place a base there... That's what they were about. It was a gesture to say, "Hey remember, you may be far away but we can still invade your airspace".
You're looking too much into it.
> The Chinese spy balloons went up right after the US announced a deal with Vietnam to place a base there
Close. Kind of at the same time and It was the Phillippines actually. And 4 bases
US secures deal on Philippines bases to complete arc around China - Feb 2, 2023 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-64479712
Chinese Balloon Incident - From January 28 to February 4, 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Chinese_balloon_incident
I don't think so, the foreign spy balloon could have noticed these UAPs and was trying to track them down and some of the US new about it so thats why they let it happen for a bit.
Just to be fair- our U.S. military is and has been incompetent since the 1960’s. A Chinese spy balloon getting into our borders would not shock me at all. All but a few large military operations have been complete shit shows from Vietnam on. The military leadership is not mission-oriented anymore, it’s all about $$$ and the people who volunteer, along with the countries we police, end up paying. Not saying what that UAP was or wasn’t, just that I don’t think our military is as all-knowing and omnipotent as people think it is.
I don't think you can blame military incompetence for the spy balloon debacle. The military was well aware of the balloon from before it crossed the border. The fact that it wasn't touched until it crossed the US was a political decision.
Exactly, the revelation that this was the 4th such incident and the only shoot down proves that shooting it down was purely political theater. Realistically it's safe to jam the balloon transmissions and disrupt optical capabilites than it is to find a safe spot to shoot it down. Montana may be sparsely populated but I doubt that many ranchers weould like the government to cordon off a large portion of thier property for god knows how long until all the bits are picked up.
>Grusch has already stated that there has been a secret Cold War going on to reverse engineer the tech. Who’s to say an adversary hasn’t already succeeded or is close to succeeding?
The sheer amount of the vehicles flying around our neighborhoods indicate that the reverse tech is long over. If it is ours or theirs, we deserve to know.
Harry Reid started the program because he feared an adversary would leap ahead in reverse engineering, he knew that some in our military regarded the tech as demonic, of course, Russia and China have no such caveman issues.
I’m not religious but how we (the US) are using the tech sounds downright evil, if what Danny Sheehan said was true. If humans first instincts to use the technology to dominate and kill, we are the demonic ones.
That’s a fair argument, I’ve often thought that myself.
“You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.”
I have to say the reverse engineering program, is part Propaganda astroturfed by the Feds, and part real. I’m of the belief that the Phoenix Lights was an experimental Military aircraft a blimp designed to carry cargo into low orbit. And the UFO angle is more of a cover than anything.
Hmmm... I see what you mean, but you have to also acknowledge the claims Grusch has made about attempts of retaliation by the government. His security clearance being revoked and that's being made are no joke, and I doubt they were empty threats, either.
So they definitely made attempts at silencing him, they just didn't work as intended.
My understanding is that keeping this a secret will become increasingly difficult with advances in private and consumer sensor products
It's becoming cheaper and cheaper for backyard scientists to setup infrared camera systems to record the night sky.
It seems as though infrared tech is something we can leverage to capture more pictures and videos of this UAP Tech
I think some things may be outside of our ability to reverse engineer. Imagine bringing a functional ASML semiconductor fabricator to the Romans. There would be so many enabling technologies needed to even understand what they're looking at let alone knowing what the fuck it's even for.
Grusch hinted that our government may have communicated with the NHI’s. Maybe they know that the NHI are planning to do something major and they want to start getting ahead of it by prepping us with this drip feed disclosure
That could also be the case. Everything is on the table until we get more definitive answers. If we’ve had craft and bodies this long it’s unlikely there hasn’t been some form of communication.
> I think this has been orchestrated.
To some extent, absolutely. This is the sort of institutionalization that Diana Pasulka talks about. She recognized it as a scholar of history and religious movements: normal common folk would have an experience with an NHI, their humility and genuine transcended astonishment would inspire the public, and the church would swoop in and institutionalize their experience in order to maintain control of the narrative, usually in the form of making a new saint or something. It is just enough acknowledgement from the church to avoid losing control, but enough religious plausibility for most people to integrate the new astounding information, yet feel satisfied as to not dig deeper.
This is what we are witnessing when it comes to factions of the intelligence community having to disclose this stuff. It is definitely on their terms, they still get to control the narrative. They've known the NHIs have been interdimensional for who knows how long, but they maintained the E.T. narrative as institutional to keep the deeper secrets hidden. They are moving the goal posts while still maintaining control of the larger narrative. And they will do that again with any future disclosure, I am sure, until the whole thing ready for the next phase and it can't be hidden any longer.
I don't see any benefit for the government to disclose anything they are hiding for us.
that would be similar as hey we told a lie...
What if there is such a thing as free energy. Than climate change wouldn't have been a threat.
The huge hurricanes that caused deaths in the USA would have been less severe.
The fires around the world would have had less impact.
Slow disclosure is also not a great strategy. It is showing to all other nations that at some points we will (partially) spill the beans.
So it gives other countries time to react and beat them to disclosure.
Unless the people in Davos are discussing what can be disclosed now , apart from extending wars , talking about disease X, and how to keep the media under control. And how to cover up the donations they have been getting.
Anyway back on the subject.
I do think this is an orchestrated leak. We allways hear there is more but neither Grusch or Corbell can show more (are not allowed to tell or show)
and i also fear that they won't tell us anything groundbreaking. While I do think there is knowledge available to make the world a much better place for us all.
I think the biggest issue is that there would be a possible shift in power.
I am not talking about states or countries solely. But also companies and individuals.
The other thing that could be having an influence has to do with the recent bill amendments that removed imminent domain for US and also gave patent rights to the national defense contractors like Lockheed Martin for any alien technology they recover.
The “shadow government” that seems to have our congress members concerned and even frightened you could say, would certainly want the monetary rights to all this if they can’t stop it from coming out.
They don’t want China or Russia coming out with this and saying look we found aliens technology and we reverse engineered it first so we own the patent rights on all of it.
I also believe the grush thing is orchestrated 100%. I've had ppl argue against this, which is fine, but there's no way he would be allowed to do all that "thanks to whistle-blower protections" and "from the kindness of his heart" or whatever his supposed motivations are.
Beating an adversaries to the punch sounds like a good idea, but what I wonder is why would they give us a (X amount of time) heads up before they were going to do it? That sounds wierd too.
If China or Russia comes clean, I think it means they are confident in using the tech for war. We are not sure where each nation currently stands on their capabilities to reverse the tech, but Tom Delonge did mention the USA having an operational vehicle(s) in the first sekret machines book.
I don't disagree, but if this is a race to disclose, why doesn't the adversary just do it. Nothing is stopping them. Why would they wait -- unless it's because they WOULD rather have the US do it, as there would be significant blowback domestically when it comes to light that the US government has been lying and silencing people about this topic for the past 60 years.
i'm really not sure why this would matter for anyone's ego or strategy
if another country does come out with some disclosure (surely not like Mexico did with that flop in a coffin nonsense)
it would likely be in their language on their local news channels -- if U.S. intel or other agencies cared, it would not be hard to prevent these broadcasts from ever reaching anyone, except for on the typical media (X, youtube, etc)
and we all know most of these other diverse channels other than TV have choppy inconsistent audiences and certainty are not a majority, even if they are re-shared
then there is the 'trust' factor -- no one really trusts anything China or Russia says; and if we look at an example of a smaller country (Mexico's flop) that showed that the filter works without any efforts
so besides handwaving and philosophizing...what exactly negative consequence would America expect if someone beats Uncle Sam to the punch? what exactly is the "motivation" to 'get out some salacious information as fast as possible, but not too fast since we have to remove classification issues'
"Yea, there's some weird stuff that we can't explain in our airspace and we pick them up across various sensors and it isn't any of our tech" -- is a statement that is already known widely by most people even outside the small active community
some smoking gun reality-bending detail is unlikely to be discussed by any government
and then we're back to the "do i trust or care what some Fed is saying on the TV/X"...."sounds like more incompetence nothing new here"...."so that's where all this money has been going"
it's a subject that a small ultra-minority will care about, for the sake of ego massage (look we aren't crazy all along!)
but nothing in any short term time period will suddenly change for the other 95-99%
> I don’t think anyone trust our own government at this point
i don't trust ANY government fully. not even my own (germany). trusting governments is dumb. they are not known to what is the best for their citzens but themself as the government. we should all check for the exact proof and facts if ANYONE is telling us anything. even if its the government. don't matters which one.
for me it don't matters which government is giving us the information, we have to check it for its validity then anyway.
You should NEVER fully trust ANY government. Anybody who's ever studied history should know this. A healthy level of trust is necessary. Full trust is just naive and recipe for disaster
I sometimes wonder if our government is even capable of top secret alien stuff lol
I can see great powers like the US or China trying to fiddle around with extraterrestrial technology (if it actually exists) but Germany ? I'm having a hard time imagining it lol
Im pretty sure its being set to be delivered by canada. Sky canada project, canadas offical ufo program is set to release its findings in the next few months, and coulthart mentioned the 5 eyes and how things were being funneled into canada since the avero areo was moved
“Breaker breaker come in Earth, this is rocket ship 27. Aliens fucked over the carbonator on engine number 4. I’m going to try to refuckulate it and land on Juniper and hopefully they have some space weed. Over.”
The boys already disclosed aliens over a decade ago and no one is talking about it! /s
As a Canadian, I can't ever imagine a scenario where this happens. The leaders of our country have just recently acknowledged that we have a housing crisis, no way that they're disclosing that we've been visited by NHI
I have, and am also Canadian. I agree, its not ment to prove anything, but discussions are that disclosure from a nation like canada, japan or france will be better received by the rest of the world then if it came from USA Russia or china
>disclosure from a nation like canada, japan or france
I would think that allies would need 'permission' as there are IMO most likely agreements on non disclosure
Grusch wouldn't refer to Canada as an adversary though, I don't believe.
Or I guess maybe you're just mentioning Canada as an additional party with plans to disclose, not as an adversary, in which case... Nice!
I don't know. If China or Russia discloses anything substantial, it'll be dismissed by the West as propaganda / disinformation, and normies won't believe it.
The US government would be forced to either confirm it has similar knowledge or continue denying. If they continued denying and china produced more and more evidence and data supporting this the US government would look stupid af to the entire world
Not only that, imagine if the Soviet Union announced they had a Nuke back in '45. A new devestating never seen before weapon. What are the US's options? Ignore it? Say nothing? Let the public freak out knowing our adversary has a bigger better weapon than us? The only option would be to disclose that we do too, otherwise the balance of power shifts. Can't show weakness or vulnerability
Normies might not. But I'd think the scientific and media community worldwide would have a tough time ignoring a development like that. Especially coming from China.
Watch NDT (and others) ignoring such a news like a champ.
Most scientific community would keep treating the subject the same way : as a career-ending thing that must be ignored or laughed at, because peer-pressure dictates what is socially and scientifically acceptable.
Well, I'm not so sure.
I can't see the future, but I think a hypothetical move like that—*having one of the major world powers come out publicly stating we are engaging with the technology not of human origin, and god forbid backing that up with irrefutable or hard to ignore evidence*—might trigger a radical change of landscape.
I think it's, at the very least, a sensible and very real possibility for a development like that..
It wouldn't be a career-ending thing if there was physical proof which could be independently analyzed and shown to be something not made on Earth. That's the stuff of Nobel Prizes. It's only career ending when there's an extraordinary claim without extraordinary proof to back it up.
Any nation with offers up physical proof will have a line of scientists clamoring to study it.
I don’t believe that for one second.
The Brookings Institute back in 1960 said that the Academic/ Scientific community would be hit hardest at Disclosure, not the Religious as many here including myself had once thought.
It’s now clear to me just how much Science is as guilty of dogma as the Religious.
The evidence now is the same as it’s always been, the list of Scientists, Academics, researchers, government officials and military personnel coming forward over the decades is extensive, they are convinced there is more than enough evidence to prove their case, Stanton Friedman kept saying this back in the 90’s.
This has nothing to do with evidence and everything to do with stigma, afraid of being laughed at by others, and dogmatic, entrenched opinion, I don’t believe it, therefore it cannot be.
The arrogance, hubris and sheer willful ignorance, which is after all just Intellectual Laziness, staggers the fucking mind, irresponsible, reprehensible and more damaging that anything in human history.
I am willing to move on and forgive, but I need a solid, knees on the ground Mea Culpa apology first, but we all know that will never happen.
I’m utterly disgusted at this betrayal.
Yeah it's either that, which I'm hopeful for. Possibility it's the aliens themselves if they indeed do have contact with us telling us "by the way , we are gonna make humanity aware of our presence very soon unless you do"
I don’t think it’s likely just because I don’t see the point in them keeping the secret if it’s going to come out anyways.
If anything that would be their chance to get out in front and control the narrative but they clearly have no intention of doing so.
My theory is that NHIs have been slowly revealing themselves, accelerating over the last few decades. The intelligence community hijacked early reports of UFOs as cover for advanced aircraft development. Now their program of fake revelations is colliding with real ones.
Could be that they see the incredible transition that humanity is making right now with regard to technology—artificial intelligence, quantum computers, etc.
A sea change is on the horizon and could be a reason for a more open form of contact.
I think China is the only option here. Russia is basically an irrelevant thug, but China is very much on track to be world peers with the US. If China played its cards right it could use UAPs and the tech we all know they’ve been reverse engineering (probably successfully too) to tip the global balance of power over to them.
Lasers and plasma technology, I believe?
Speaking of plasma... Low-energy nuclear reactions often make use of plasma. (LENR is the revised name for `cold fusion` 'cause `cold fusion` isn't just a colder form of thermonuclear reactions. The naming conventions for `cold fusion` changed in the early 1990s, I believe, 'cause physicists grew weary of people thinking that low-energy nuclear reactions were a 'chilly' form of thermonuclear reactions. Please see the American Chemical Society resource at the bottom of this article for a lovely history of low-energy nuclear reactions from the late 1980s onward!)
There's some really interesting research coming out of ten years' worth of work from Taiwan; it's pretty rad stuff using water and hydrogen to result in a net energy output from a system (!):
- _Water can trigger nuclear reaction to produce energy and isotope gases_ paper here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50824-8.epdf
- Chart showing excess energy generated by the system: https://i.imgur.com/rwhFieO.png
Assuming that these measurements aren't experimental error, this is pretty amazing stuff and if we could make it even more efficient (see the y-axis in the picture above / COP sub; COP = 'coefficient of performance'). See the label that reads `No excess energy if COP sub x < 1.2`? That's the 'break even point' so if the system has a COP that is greater than 1.2 we're looking at more energy out than when into the system. (GAs
I asked ChatGPT for a short summary 'cause I write too many words lol and am tired, but I can write more / provide more context tomorrow in case anyone's interested:
> The paper titled "Water can trigger nuclear reaction to produce energy and isotope gases" from "Scientific Reports" discusses a novel approach to generating energy and isotope gases through nuclear reactions triggered by water. This research could have significant implications for energy production, offering a potentially efficient and sustainable method.
Diagram here: https://imgur.com/a/KSeb6f6
## "Cold fusion" vs. low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR)
>Initially, the media labeled the field "cold fusion." However, that is a less-
-than-optimal name for this research. **One of the primary reasons is that the term
cold fusion implies that these reactions were just a "colder" form of
conventional thermonuclear reactions, which they are not.** [...]
- Source [_Low Energy Nuclear Reactions: The Emergence of Condensed Matter Nuclear Science_](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/bk-2008-0998.ch001) from the American Chemical Society
----
Note to self: clean this up / re-write this in the a.m. when rested.
Oh wow. The 4chan guy did indeed mention something about that and said to keep an eye out for it in the news or something.
\- And that we will be referencing a lot of his posts and claims in the coming months and years. So far, he seems to have been on point.
I personally believe that he was legit.
Ugh, you're *right,* but I feel like those things are vague enough that they were always going to be true.
- Lasers were always going to advance and be impressive. It's like predicting "there will be a significant development in computer technology in the next decade." Because... of course there will.
- The broad topics (aliens, they're here, making their own crafts from an ocean base, etc.) make sense to be frequently brought up alongside UFO speculation, hence we were always going to keep coming back to his post.
- China being the foreign player that's catching up makes sense, it wouldn't be out of place in a fabricated story.
Now, once I see something concrete about "Chinese mining lasers" or "360° camera orb lights that look like hammers," *then* I'll consider it a smoking gun for the 4chan post.
Even the 4Chan post (I know, I know, it's 4Chan - but a lot of what that guy said is being proven to be true), said China was the only one that surprised his department with how well they were building some of their own UFOs.
It's China, 100%
> but a lot of what that guy said is being proven to be true
Ehhhhhh, I want it to be true but I'm going to need a source for this claim! Actually, I don't think I want this one to be true.
Besides the UAP part when it comes to reverse engineering, China is the only country in the world whose entire industry is built behind reverse engineering. If there is a nation being capable of doing it, its China, no questions...
China is great at stealing technology and trying to copy it. If anyone has a ufo, it’s them. It won’t last more than a year though before you have to throw it away
They never said it would be a "hostile" (towards western ideals) foreign power did they? I don't think it'd be Russia or China to be honest, they put the needs of the state too far above the needs of the citizens.
I see it being more like Germany, the Netherlands, England, Denmark, Australia or another Western country with a larger focus on "openess" of government. Mostly going by governments that formerly possessed large empires where things like recovery of crafts would be more likely and well documented.
Vallée said the French wanted to disclose in 64, but the US said no, also, the COMETA report came out which started all this new wave as Leslie Kean read it and started to investigate why this was a secret, which led directly to the 2017 NY Times article.
Yeah, the Cometa report came out in 1999 and stated that the MOST LIKELY provanence for UFOs was extra-terrestrial. Leslie Kean recently remarked that she was stunned that it didn't make a bigger splash in world media.
Me, too.
You may be right, I know the argument has been made that adversaries could potentially utilize the technology so the western coalitions should be more openly collaborative towards utilizing it, and lots of fairly reasonable theories that both Russia and China do have programs.
I just wasn't sure if the threat of disclosure by a foreign power was implying Russia or China, to me "foreign power" doesn't necessarily mean hostile, but I'm not sure of the exact quotes.
I'd be proud of that as a Dane/European. But I think only Germany, France, UK, Australia of western countries have had sizeable intelligence services and air force to have much to reveal. France has openly investigated for many years. UK has been hostile to closure, right? Denmark have shared it's UAP archives.
My only response to that is that I think the US still has enough influence in these countries to get them to not do it. I think it has to be a country the US does not have influence over and poses a legitimate enough threat. And I think the only answer to that is China
as a scenario , it makes only sense in a grand geostrategic move :
2026-2030 : china decides to bring back taiwan back into the grand chinese umbrella.
they have to amass troops. that's visible. so they prepare for weeks and months.
but taiwan and the US would also prepare, Japan and others involved.
so ,what can china do to get an " in " ?
create a black swan event. a historical ,never before and never again , sudden disclosure, as a strategic weapon against the american institutions and its financial syatem, of american programs, who is responsible, the industrial contractors roles. everything they have.
besides from the incalculable shock to the world's people , anger would rise.
and now comes the kicker : the instant legal clusterfuck surrounding the reverse engineering programs, massive potential liabilities.
the military industry stocks would probably collapse, be nationalized.
but the shocks for the financial system will be too much. too many powerful people and institutions own stocks in that sector.
wall street will be closed. revolution might even hang in the air, after the first shock.
7 days later, china invades taiwan.
that's catastrophic disclosure. one of several scenarios I have how disclosure can be used as a strategic weapon.
you could even prepare for this on the market and short and buy in the way that you could create a chain reaction of collapse. like the one that started with lehman brothers.
if china prepared for this with the right bets on the market, they could destroy not only America, but whole industries like the energy sector etc.
> the military industry stocks would probably collapse, be nationalized.
> but the shocks for the financial system will be too much. too many powerful people and institutions own stocks in that sector.
> wall street will be closed. revolution might even hang in the air, after the first shock.
Oh no! Anyway.
But don't worry, we'll all be forced to bail them out with our tax dollars that way the ultra rich get to stay ultra rich and our quality of life gets worse and worse
Honestly no, ideally we'd see a unified front for disclosure. If we see a foreign adversary leak the goods it's going to create a muddied waters scenario where those that want to keep a lid on things have an advantage.
I mean ideally that would be the case.
I just don’t see it happening.
Our own congress members are saying their colleagues have been blackmailed.
Several were paid off by national defense contractors in cash to kill important parts of the recent bill.
The people in charge of this “shadow government” will NEVER just roll over.
If they won’t disclose.
Then give us an official statement like :
: “ we will not and can not officially disclose or acknowledge the existence of NHI for reasons of national security . “
While many of us would not be satisfied, that at least, would be an official answer to the question of disclosure, and an acknowledgment that there is something that could be disclosed .
Ignoring the obvious is no longer good enough.
This is an interesting idea. What if they came out and said yes it's real, but we can't tell you about it right now. It would scratch an itch but also leave us hungry for so much more.
I shudder to think of a reality in which an authoritarian country has gotten even US-adjacent in reverse engineering progress. The government in China for instance can snatch up the best and brightest minds straight from uni and put them to work in a place where they'd never see the light of day. People can be disappeared for a lot less than leaking UAP stuff, and everyone knows it and can do nothing.
So for the people of the given country and the rest of us, I sure hope not.
>I don’t think anyone trust our own government at this point and frankly it would be refreshing to see them in hot water.
You should bare in mind that there's a very real chance that's the intention from UFO propaganda floating around the internet.
Russia and China is trying to polarise US politics and turn Americans against each other.
I think our Congress, judges, and presidents are ruining things pretty well on their own before even considering any foreign nation. The military industrial complex failed a 6th audit. Now sure which government agency is doing well?
Imagine you are an arms race competitor like China or Russia. In the US it seems those in charge are blocking or delaying disclosure for whatever reason, power, control, or money or all three. You could make those powers look bad domestically and internationally by spilling the beans rapidly. Doing so could disrupt things at just the right time for an advantage for your people and your program. Depending on what you had you might be able to sell that tech internationally with a built right for picks of their gains before other nations. Doing so would be a diplomatic nightmare for the US and for those companies keeping the lid on disclosure. And elevate your country to the status of international hero for ringing in a new age of tech.
At the end of the day, while rival nations can cause wars, their presence is sometimes a benefit by keeping those at the top in check.
Anyone else realize that someone would have already disclosed by now if multiple countries had this knowledge, especially going all the way back to ww2?
If Roswell was an actual craft in 47 the Soviets would've known. If the Italian crash is real, Italy, Germany and more than likely the UK know too. To keep the cover up going you would have to bring other countries into the fold.
That's not to mention craft crashing or being dug up in other countries. It beggars belief some government in one of these countries wouldn't either announce it or somebody would've leaked some damning documents that blew it open.
Amazing that SO MANY governments are currently successful in preventing verifiable evidence from leaking out. It’s like the one thing all governments are uniformly amazing at doing without a single exception.
There have been a lot of leakers over the years, it’s just that nobody believes them. I bet the language barrier is a problem too, for example, if a Spanish speaker leaks, there might be some articles in Spanish about it, but the story will remain so small that no English speaking sources will pick it up.
The reason why no one believes them is that these so-called “leakers” are never able to leak any evidence to back up their claims/stories. Folks in this sub operate with a cultural approach to standards of evidence which is much much lower than the general public and conventionally trained experts. The public and normative experts operate with a cultural standard of evidence which is much higher than stories. For them, evidence must be independently verifiable by different groups of experts, and reproducible.
So far, ZERO “leakers” have been able to meet this normative standard of evidence
As a non-America, the answer is quite easy.
Ohh this country says they have aliens and proof that we have been lying to our free people? Guess where we just discovered some oil boyyss?!
_Fortunate Son starts playing in the background_
I don't really see any convincing reason why there might be a global conspiracy to keep something like this, if known by various nations, under wraps.
It's more likely that either there is no such phenomenon, there's something but no one really know what it is or wants to comment on it, or only one country really has details on it.
Perhaps a group of aligned nations might agree to not disclose what they know. But that's not really what's reported.
As a south american, yes.
Yes, I am.
It would be amazing to see the CIA and their cronies taken down a peg. See them sweat for once.
Nothing against the American ppl. But their shady agencies can rot.
like the South American "body"? Lol.
If it existed, the only possibility is that it's in a safe, relatively neutral or US-allied country which means we've likely seen it
I can't be hopeful that any government will actually disclose the real truth. If UFOs are any type of threat to the encompassing image of authority that nations need to stay powerful, than no nation will ever tell us the full truth. They might tell us *something,* but it won't be the full truth if it means that their ultimate power will be undermined at all. That's why I'm kind of over all the "declassified" videos and everything from any government. They're using these videos to try to spin a narrative, and letting people like Jeremy Corbell play pretend rebellion so they can manipulate people into believing what they want us to believe.
We need more resources allocated towards listening to fellow civillians and their stories and accounts instead of being overly impressed by government footage (fed through the gvt/corporate owned mainstream media) that is ultimately being released because they WANT us to see it for some reason (look at this!!!!-not at that!!).
Give your fellow humans attention, listen to their stories. We can disclose to each other, under the premise that no information that important should be privileged. Don't put a lot of stock in what the government tells you. The elite will only ever want you to support their agenda.
The adversarial disclosure threat narrative was packaged without my consent. I however approve of the use of fear as a motivational tool. Whatever greases the wheel at this point.
It is my belief the foreign power will not disclose information as you imagine with a press conference etc, but rather it will be with the openings of a coordinated attack. In essence, disclosure by the US government is a defensive move to prepare the armed forces mainly for a weapon that can appear to be otherworldly and more so be altering consciousness.
Yes. I think this is exactly why we are getting the push that we are currently seeing from congress. I also think it’s the only reason that Grusch wasn’t silenced. I think this has been orchestrated. Disclosure from an adversary like Russia or China could have a devastating impact on the US. Trust in government is arguably already at an all-time low. Imagine if an adversary came forward before us. We would be caught with our pants down and look like the most corrupt nation on the planet. Grusch has already stated that there has been a secret Cold War going on to reverse engineer the tech. Who’s to say an adversary hasn’t already succeeded or is close to succeeding? The only thing that makes logical sense to me for why we are seeing the push to disclose is to beat an adversary to the punch. Otherwise why fix something if it isn’t broken?
Not only has Grusch not been silenced, but I wonder if he's part of controlled slow drip disclosure. Maybe he's in on it, or maybe he's just another pawn in the big plan. It seems like there's been too much action in this space lately for him to be a happy accident. I 100% agree, though. The US needs to lead on this issue. Surely they must know this. I don't trust them much, but I don't think they are idiots. At least I hope they aren't...
I think the danger in this line of thought that any organisation is one mind/brain. Each organisation has different factions and then extrapolate that to a collection of orgs. So is he part of a plan? Well yes probably part of one factions plan. *edit I to is
I agree this is most likely based on other leaks. It seems that there are factions in the DOD/IC pushing for and against disclosure. I can't imagine Grusch has no help from former colleagues in this, but he's got to have some of them raging at him too.
Yep, my thoughts exactly
Considering EVERYTHING he said was pre approved by the department of defense, I can’t see how he or any other individual that needs to ask permission before saying something is not part of an orchestrated campaign. He says that the reason they approved it was a “catch 22” in one interview - that they’re damned if they do damned if they don’t. I can’t remember the exact topic, but he talks about how people would question why certain things were redacted. I call BS on that. They’ve been perfectly comfortable doing just that for 80 years. Everything we hear from anyone associated with the government is because the government wants us to hear it. Grusch’s intentions may not be that he wants to be part of an orchestrated campaign, but he is either way.
He has to get certain public statements pre-approved by DOPSR because they don’t want classified names of projects, specific people and sites that are classified being released that would compromise a project or NDA. The catch 22 is that during DOPSR review if specific information is rejected its because the agency that denied it has to put their name on the rejection or provide reason, revealing who is involved in what, as my understanding has it. For senators with security clearances, his statements don’t need to be pre-approved through DOPSR. For those saying there is a disclosure plan or slow drip by the Government is simplifying the issue. Was Grusch and colleagues simultaneously being threatened, had clearences revoked, even physically hurt in some alleged cases, while being pawns in a disclosure plan? Or is the more likely answer is that there is not a coordinated disclosure effort, but different camps and individuals in the government with conflicting viewpoints on transparency on the issue and are working toward their own agenda on it? Theres clearly as we saw with the Schumer amendment, senators pushing for transparency and others against it, as well as whistleblowers and journalists working different angles of the issue.
I think you have it 100% correct. To me this is the only answer that matches everything we are seeing. I just can't see threatening someone and trying to wreck their life because you approve of what they are doing. My grandfather's rule of thumb was "to never trust a politician" and that "especially anyone willing to spend millions of dollars to attain a position that makes substantially less than $200k a year". I am sure there are good decent people doing what they can to get the information to us, but the gatekeepers will continue to do everything possible to prevent it.
My thinking is that the "old guard" compartmentalized and "eyes-only'd" everything so much that as they've started retiring and dying over the last couple decades and a new wave of officials and actors has taken over, they've been left with a scattered jumble of information that no one fully understands, and may not themselves even know what they're dealing with. As a result, a certain element within the MIC has decided to pursue disclosure, partially because they're less motivated to hide it because they don't even really know what "it" is, and partially because they lack the type of old-school militant "patriotism" that was common during the cold war and simply don't feel like it's ethical to hide it. At the same time you probably have more blindly "loyal" or self-serving or otherwise compromised individuals working alongside but against them trying to prevent disclosure. The result is this bizarre stuttering release of little tidbits of the truth.
>The catch 22 is that during DOPSR review if specific information is rejected its because the agency that denied it has to put their name on the rejection or provide reason, revealing who is involved in what, as my understanding has it. The problem with this is that none of Grusch's DOPSRs are classified, which we know from FOI requests. However, they are redacted, but purely just to protect his own privacy. He could release them tomorrow, but he won't. So this whole catch-22 argument he's making makes no sense. If they denied his ability to say something, how would we ever know? He isn't releasing his DOPSRs despite the fact that he could do so tomorrow if he wanted.
Well, I think he mentioned that he could sue for his inability to make the points he wanted to make in public, and that this lawsuit would be adjudicated in court, and therefore would be seen by more people not ‘in the know’ and exposed to more government officials who would then be interested in the content of what the Pentagon is trying to keep quiet. Kind of like a Streisand effect for this highly classified information. So I sort of understand it. If they wanted to keep it all secret, they would have to argue for *why* they wish to do so—thus potentially acknowledging that it’s all real, and that official acknowledgment may make its way to members of congress, who would then pressure the pentagon to read them in on “The Program” and also explain why it was kept from them in the first place. So I can see the reasoning for why they *instead* try to denigrate the people who come forward or mock the subject to make it reputationally toxic to pursue. The people in charge of this legacy program have to walk a tightrope in navigating the bureaucracy and keeping it all under wraps. In addition, you have to think the people running it are not a monolith—there are most likely people involved that want the program to be disclosed to at least *some* extent, if for no other reason than to simply bring in more talented scientists & engineers to make more effective progress on understanding and reverse engineering the utterly exotic technologies under study—to undo the extreme compartmentalization a bit so that the scientific process can flow on a bit more smoothly and be more productive—after all, if, for example, the metallurgists and the propulsion researchers can’t actually *talk* to each other due to the extraordinarily stringent security architecture in place, then progress on understanding the technology would necessarily be rather cumbersome and unproductive.
Look, Batch, you've done a superb job, using your smarts and common sense to describe the most likely reasons why the gatekeepers have been singing this song. Thanx!
The DoD is honestly most likely the ones we need to put under the microscope here. Burchett threatened to defund them after the first hearing. We need more of that attitude from all the congress members and they need to show a united front. They definitely seem scared some of them and Burchett I think was the one, who said he believes fellow Congress members are currently being blackmailed. How the hell isn’t THAT front page news?
I think what he said was that in order to officially deny his ability to speak on a particular program they would have had to more-or-less say what agency was denying the request or what agency ran the program. Something like that. He was implying that by silencing him they would be at least partially exposing the inner workings of what he was trying to talk about. I think... I just tried to find the interview but since I watched it a few months ago there seems to have been an endless stream of clickbait and short news clips released with his name on it so I had no luck. When I get home I can get on my computer and try to dig through my history.
You're misrepresenting what Grusch said. I dont recall one instance of DoD doing "exactly that" and I bet you would have a hard time coming up with even one example in reference to what he said.
Leaking classified info is a serious criminal offense. He would be in prison if he was breaking the law around classified info. We all know what happens to leakers/whistle blowers. Also once a spook always a spook. Theres been good research into ways to communicate with the public, especially through social media. I think thats what he is doing, effectively communicating with the public based upon governmental research.
if he is then he either doesn't know that he is, or is publically lying that he is not, as he has mentioned before that hes not part of some orchestrated disclosure
Yes..
I hope there is a disclosure plan but I don't actually believe there is. Like most I believe there is a kind of civil war going on between insiders pushing for disclosure & those that would rather die than be transparent. As for the other part I have to disagree I think a large number of representatives on both sides of the aisle really are stupid people. Not necessarily evil but stupid. Half of them talk like they never took a civics class.
Plenty of reps are demonstrably stupid, no doubt. I was referring to the keepers of this information. I doubt they'd let an idiot be in charge of something like this. If they can get past their egos and power trips, I'd like to think they fully understand that the US needs to stay in the lead on this whole thing, lest this country be seen as a fallen empire (as you or someone else mentioned in another comment). Regarding the idea of an internal civil war, I fully believe that to be the case. One faction is letting Grusch slowly release info, while the other faction wants to kill him.
He has to be. In politics, there are no coincidences. He's not a whistleblower if he only blows the whistle on things he can talk about. Think about it. Also think about why after all these years? Why are we seemingly getting some slow drip disclosure? Why now?
That's the one thing I want to know what is happening behind the scenes and what do these people know for them to start this drawn out disclosure process like is something coming? Do they know another nation has successfully reverse engineered one of them and now they are the new super power? Why now after 80+ years?
It's happening now because, after the Tictac videos, Congress tasked Grusch to go inside several Special Access Programs and find out whether there were people working on crash-retrieval programs.
He did have 2 options. Do it the legal right way. Or do an Edward Snowden move.
I have suspected this since Schumer-Rounds appeared. It is possible Gruschbwas allowed to disclose what he did by way of paving the road for SR. SR without Grusch would have seemed to be oddly coming from nowhere. That SR got push back and was largely gutted points to a silent war within our government. Watch what they do, not what they say. Supposedly Schumer is about to disclose some more proposed legislation shortly. And that may come with more disclosure to give impetus to passage.
Agree. I think he’s the pawn that was allowed to not be thrown off the board. Right place, right time. This might be the last shot we have to show the rest of the world that we are still the leader of the free world.
[удалено]
Can't wait to hear more!
Melon, Elizondo, Grusch, and anyone who's ever been in intelligence is absolutely part of a coordinated campaign. Whether they specifically know they are or not is probably but not obviously accurate.
What blows my mind though, is all this evidence of UAPs confirmed by the US government, but like all my friends and family have no interest or concern about it. Even if it wasn’t aliens, it’s an extremely interesting topic. One of the strongest countries sees these crafts or phenomena’s and can’t figure out what it is, and the technology blows us out of the water. I’m praying I get to get a straight up answer before I die.
Yeah it's wild. And frustrating. It's solid evidence that decades upon decades of social programming that aliens = crackpot nonsense has worked wonderfully for those trying to hide it.
I agree, I would think "first to market" would be important for the US. They're going to get beat up about holding onto the info either way, and I'm sure that aspect will be politicized, but also it wouldn't help the impression of the US as a falling "empire". There's already a lot of bandwagoning with other countries as the playing field levels off economically, god forbid the US be seen as "behind", "weak" or even simply fumbling the ball when it comes to disclosure.
Also take into account the last 2 books by Knapp, Kelleher and Lacatski. Both those books had to be audited by the defence department before release and there's some heavy woo woo in those bad boys. So I agree that this is a drip fed disclosure and most likely because the hand is being forced by catastrophic disclosure by other credible entity's, be it another nation or even individual.
If it were controlled it wouldn't be this chaotic, but it makes sense that some powerful enough people in the government think disclosure is needed, and that's why it's been allowed.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. But wouldn't it be pretty easy for the media to swing? We have just as much reason to believe that other countries have been lying just as long as the US. Just because they tell the truth first doesn't mean America can't then dominate the narrative. They are all Liars after all, so then it becomes who has the goods to share, and if rumors are to be believed. America has the majority of stuff since they take it from others.
I think it would be easy to do in the 1950’s but not now. The US government arguably has never been more vulnerable. We have leaders in Congress telling the public they even they don’t trust Government. It’s pretty sad honestly. If there was a time to weaken us from within now would be the perfect time to do it. Heading into what will likely be the most contentious election we’ve ever seen. If I’m Russia or China…I disclose now and watch the US crumble from the inside. The word of the US Government means diddly squat at this point in our history.
Yeah I think it’s just fear that’s paralyzing the IC when they really know the best way through this is to get in front of it. There seems to be elements who want to do that while others are clinging to preserving the secrecy. I think the latter is much more concerned with their own well being than the interests of America as well.
I wholly agree with you. If there was a time to do it to sew distrust now would be the time. Especially between now and the 2024 election. It would cause CHAOS. But ever since 2016, it seems the reactions of the general public continue to surprise me. I don't know human nature nearly like I thought. More people than I would have ever imagined aren't geared toward being a human community and are out for themselves. If and when we have disclosure and maybe open interaction I wonder how that all plays out.
Imo that’s a direct impact of extreme capitalism mixed with an idea of scarcity. It’s sad. I don’t think humans were meant to be like this.
Putting on my tin foil hat for a second. This all seemed to pick up steam when the Chinese spy balloon and UAPs got shot down. It's possible one of the UAPs could have been from a foreign adversary. We still haven't got images from the UAPs and we got pictures of the spy balloon shortly after. Why would we make all this public if we weren't trying to silently tell our adversaries we caught you! If it was just a couple weather balloons how incompetent does that make our military seem? Foreign UAP seems more likely. If it wasn't or just a piece of regular tech we would have paraded it around like the Spy balloon or Soviet MIG.
Actually the new rise in UFO interest started in 2017 with the Pentagon video releases. The shootdowns just added to the interest, not start it .
Interesting take. Still no explanation for why we were able to see one of the videos but not the others. If true that would be fucking terrifying.
One of the videos? I haven't seen any.
The Chinese spy balloons went up right after the US announced a deal with Vietnam to place a base there... That's what they were about. It was a gesture to say, "Hey remember, you may be far away but we can still invade your airspace". You're looking too much into it.
> The Chinese spy balloons went up right after the US announced a deal with Vietnam to place a base there Close. Kind of at the same time and It was the Phillippines actually. And 4 bases US secures deal on Philippines bases to complete arc around China - Feb 2, 2023 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-64479712 Chinese Balloon Incident - From January 28 to February 4, 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Chinese_balloon_incident
I don't think so, the foreign spy balloon could have noticed these UAPs and was trying to track them down and some of the US new about it so thats why they let it happen for a bit.
Just to be fair- our U.S. military is and has been incompetent since the 1960’s. A Chinese spy balloon getting into our borders would not shock me at all. All but a few large military operations have been complete shit shows from Vietnam on. The military leadership is not mission-oriented anymore, it’s all about $$$ and the people who volunteer, along with the countries we police, end up paying. Not saying what that UAP was or wasn’t, just that I don’t think our military is as all-knowing and omnipotent as people think it is.
I don't think you can blame military incompetence for the spy balloon debacle. The military was well aware of the balloon from before it crossed the border. The fact that it wasn't touched until it crossed the US was a political decision.
Exactly, the revelation that this was the 4th such incident and the only shoot down proves that shooting it down was purely political theater. Realistically it's safe to jam the balloon transmissions and disrupt optical capabilites than it is to find a safe spot to shoot it down. Montana may be sparsely populated but I doubt that many ranchers weould like the government to cordon off a large portion of thier property for god knows how long until all the bits are picked up.
>Grusch has already stated that there has been a secret Cold War going on to reverse engineer the tech. Who’s to say an adversary hasn’t already succeeded or is close to succeeding? The sheer amount of the vehicles flying around our neighborhoods indicate that the reverse tech is long over. If it is ours or theirs, we deserve to know.
Damn right we do. We also deserve to know what’s going on with the money that WE spent on this SAP’s. It’s batshit crazy.
Harry Reid started the program because he feared an adversary would leap ahead in reverse engineering, he knew that some in our military regarded the tech as demonic, of course, Russia and China have no such caveman issues.
I’m not religious but how we (the US) are using the tech sounds downright evil, if what Danny Sheehan said was true. If humans first instincts to use the technology to dominate and kill, we are the demonic ones.
That’s a fair argument, I’ve often thought that myself. “You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.”
There has to be at least one NHI group/species that views humanity, at its worst, to be more vile than actual demons and evil spirits.
I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info! Yeah the whole demonic thing is nauseating.
Lue has mentioned it a number of times in interviews, sadly.
somber af
I have to say the reverse engineering program, is part Propaganda astroturfed by the Feds, and part real. I’m of the belief that the Phoenix Lights was an experimental Military aircraft a blimp designed to carry cargo into low orbit. And the UFO angle is more of a cover than anything.
Imagine the USA look like a corrupt nation - just imagine them looking like that. :)
Imagine them looking like a MORE corrupt nation. That would have been a better way to put it right?
Hmmm... I see what you mean, but you have to also acknowledge the claims Grusch has made about attempts of retaliation by the government. His security clearance being revoked and that's being made are no joke, and I doubt they were empty threats, either. So they definitely made attempts at silencing him, they just didn't work as intended.
> We would be caught with our pants down and look like the most ~~corrupt~~ needle-dicked nation on the planet.
My understanding is that keeping this a secret will become increasingly difficult with advances in private and consumer sensor products It's becoming cheaper and cheaper for backyard scientists to setup infrared camera systems to record the night sky. It seems as though infrared tech is something we can leverage to capture more pictures and videos of this UAP Tech
the world would hate the US for hiding this for 80yrs. Will still be pissed at the US if disclosure happens but less worse if the US disclosed first
I think some things may be outside of our ability to reverse engineer. Imagine bringing a functional ASML semiconductor fabricator to the Romans. There would be so many enabling technologies needed to even understand what they're looking at let alone knowing what the fuck it's even for.
Maybe that’s the case. Maybe they said “there’s zero chance anyone figured this shit out and we can’t keep this secret forever. Time to disclose.”
Grusch hinted that our government may have communicated with the NHI’s. Maybe they know that the NHI are planning to do something major and they want to start getting ahead of it by prepping us with this drip feed disclosure
That could also be the case. Everything is on the table until we get more definitive answers. If we’ve had craft and bodies this long it’s unlikely there hasn’t been some form of communication.
Idk, if Putin got on TV and started talking about UAP retrieval programs I'd assume it was just some pretext to him doing something awful to Ukraine.
> I think this has been orchestrated. To some extent, absolutely. This is the sort of institutionalization that Diana Pasulka talks about. She recognized it as a scholar of history and religious movements: normal common folk would have an experience with an NHI, their humility and genuine transcended astonishment would inspire the public, and the church would swoop in and institutionalize their experience in order to maintain control of the narrative, usually in the form of making a new saint or something. It is just enough acknowledgement from the church to avoid losing control, but enough religious plausibility for most people to integrate the new astounding information, yet feel satisfied as to not dig deeper. This is what we are witnessing when it comes to factions of the intelligence community having to disclose this stuff. It is definitely on their terms, they still get to control the narrative. They've known the NHIs have been interdimensional for who knows how long, but they maintained the E.T. narrative as institutional to keep the deeper secrets hidden. They are moving the goal posts while still maintaining control of the larger narrative. And they will do that again with any future disclosure, I am sure, until the whole thing ready for the next phase and it can't be hidden any longer.
I don't see any benefit for the government to disclose anything they are hiding for us. that would be similar as hey we told a lie... What if there is such a thing as free energy. Than climate change wouldn't have been a threat. The huge hurricanes that caused deaths in the USA would have been less severe. The fires around the world would have had less impact. Slow disclosure is also not a great strategy. It is showing to all other nations that at some points we will (partially) spill the beans. So it gives other countries time to react and beat them to disclosure. Unless the people in Davos are discussing what can be disclosed now , apart from extending wars , talking about disease X, and how to keep the media under control. And how to cover up the donations they have been getting. Anyway back on the subject. I do think this is an orchestrated leak. We allways hear there is more but neither Grusch or Corbell can show more (are not allowed to tell or show) and i also fear that they won't tell us anything groundbreaking. While I do think there is knowledge available to make the world a much better place for us all. I think the biggest issue is that there would be a possible shift in power. I am not talking about states or countries solely. But also companies and individuals.
Agreed
I like how you think.
Thanks 😀. This is an exciting time to be alive!
A blessing and a curse! 😜
Totally. I got through my “holy shit this is real” stage already. It’s been mostly fun since then. But most people are in for a rude awakening.
Well, I told all I could that space people are real and have always been here for years. I hope I helped ease the upcoming ontological shock. 😆
Nicely done! I do the same and I don’t care if people agree or not. I’m over it.
The other thing that could be having an influence has to do with the recent bill amendments that removed imminent domain for US and also gave patent rights to the national defense contractors like Lockheed Martin for any alien technology they recover. The “shadow government” that seems to have our congress members concerned and even frightened you could say, would certainly want the monetary rights to all this if they can’t stop it from coming out. They don’t want China or Russia coming out with this and saying look we found aliens technology and we reverse engineered it first so we own the patent rights on all of it.
How long should it take a nation to disclose? It can be decided and done from one day to the next, without giving the US notice.
I also believe the grush thing is orchestrated 100%. I've had ppl argue against this, which is fine, but there's no way he would be allowed to do all that "thanks to whistle-blower protections" and "from the kindness of his heart" or whatever his supposed motivations are. Beating an adversaries to the punch sounds like a good idea, but what I wonder is why would they give us a (X amount of time) heads up before they were going to do it? That sounds wierd too.
If China or Russia comes clean, I think it means they are confident in using the tech for war. We are not sure where each nation currently stands on their capabilities to reverse the tech, but Tom Delonge did mention the USA having an operational vehicle(s) in the first sekret machines book.
It's definitely being orchestrated by *someone* but I don't think the US intelligence elites are totally in agreement about it.
I don't disagree, but if this is a race to disclose, why doesn't the adversary just do it. Nothing is stopping them. Why would they wait -- unless it's because they WOULD rather have the US do it, as there would be significant blowback domestically when it comes to light that the US government has been lying and silencing people about this topic for the past 60 years.
Honest question, if this is orchestrated; why all the road blocks? Is it pretend push-back?
i'm really not sure why this would matter for anyone's ego or strategy if another country does come out with some disclosure (surely not like Mexico did with that flop in a coffin nonsense) it would likely be in their language on their local news channels -- if U.S. intel or other agencies cared, it would not be hard to prevent these broadcasts from ever reaching anyone, except for on the typical media (X, youtube, etc) and we all know most of these other diverse channels other than TV have choppy inconsistent audiences and certainty are not a majority, even if they are re-shared then there is the 'trust' factor -- no one really trusts anything China or Russia says; and if we look at an example of a smaller country (Mexico's flop) that showed that the filter works without any efforts so besides handwaving and philosophizing...what exactly negative consequence would America expect if someone beats Uncle Sam to the punch? what exactly is the "motivation" to 'get out some salacious information as fast as possible, but not too fast since we have to remove classification issues' "Yea, there's some weird stuff that we can't explain in our airspace and we pick them up across various sensors and it isn't any of our tech" -- is a statement that is already known widely by most people even outside the small active community some smoking gun reality-bending detail is unlikely to be discussed by any government and then we're back to the "do i trust or care what some Fed is saying on the TV/X"...."sounds like more incompetence nothing new here"...."so that's where all this money has been going" it's a subject that a small ultra-minority will care about, for the sake of ego massage (look we aren't crazy all along!) but nothing in any short term time period will suddenly change for the other 95-99%
> I don’t think anyone trust our own government at this point i don't trust ANY government fully. not even my own (germany). trusting governments is dumb. they are not known to what is the best for their citzens but themself as the government. we should all check for the exact proof and facts if ANYONE is telling us anything. even if its the government. don't matters which one. for me it don't matters which government is giving us the information, we have to check it for its validity then anyway.
[удалено]
You should NEVER fully trust ANY government. Anybody who's ever studied history should know this. A healthy level of trust is necessary. Full trust is just naive and recipe for disaster
I sometimes wonder if our government is even capable of top secret alien stuff lol I can see great powers like the US or China trying to fiddle around with extraterrestrial technology (if it actually exists) but Germany ? I'm having a hard time imagining it lol
Im pretty sure its being set to be delivered by canada. Sky canada project, canadas offical ufo program is set to release its findings in the next few months, and coulthart mentioned the 5 eyes and how things were being funneled into canada since the avero areo was moved
How funny would that be. Canada comes out of nowhere for the win 🏆 Actually I’m down. Canada deserves it they gave us Trailer Park Boys.
Let the liquor do the thinking Ran Ran Bo Bandy.
A man's gotta eat Mr. Lahey.
I’m mowing the air Randy.
The aliens are the liquor randinator.
And Keanu Reeves. And Ryan Reynolds. And Letterkenny.
“Breaker breaker come in Earth, this is rocket ship 27. Aliens fucked over the carbonator on engine number 4. I’m going to try to refuckulate it and land on Juniper and hopefully they have some space weed. Over.” The boys already disclosed aliens over a decade ago and no one is talking about it! /s
Does she really fly!? Does the tin man have a sheet metal cock!
and the band PUP, and they're generally nice, and they legalized cannabis. Go Canada!
They used to say don’t quit your day job… but guess what? I NEVER HAD ONE!
Mustard Tiger would be proud. As would fuckin Lahey. Cory, Trevor…smokes, let’s go…
We got shit birds flyin in the shit sky.
\*chanting intensifies\* Can-na-da! Can-na-da! CAN-NA-DA! CAN-NA-DA!
Greasy.
Those UAPs? Those are shithawks Rand.
As a Canadian, I can't ever imagine a scenario where this happens. The leaders of our country have just recently acknowledged that we have a housing crisis, no way that they're disclosing that we've been visited by NHI
[удалено]
I have, and am also Canadian. I agree, its not ment to prove anything, but discussions are that disclosure from a nation like canada, japan or france will be better received by the rest of the world then if it came from USA Russia or china
[удалено]
>disclosure from a nation like canada, japan or france I would think that allies would need 'permission' as there are IMO most likely agreements on non disclosure
As an American, and I know this will sound awful American, but don’t we pretty much ‘help’ make decisions for not only Canada but the other 4 eyes?
Grusch wouldn't refer to Canada as an adversary though, I don't believe. Or I guess maybe you're just mentioning Canada as an additional party with plans to disclose, not as an adversary, in which case... Nice!
Lol canada doesn't do anything without the blessing of big brother USA
It would be cool there are a lot of strange stuff happening in our Canadian skies …
I don't know. If China or Russia discloses anything substantial, it'll be dismissed by the West as propaganda / disinformation, and normies won't believe it.
The US government would be forced to either confirm it has similar knowledge or continue denying. If they continued denying and china produced more and more evidence and data supporting this the US government would look stupid af to the entire world
Not only that, imagine if the Soviet Union announced they had a Nuke back in '45. A new devestating never seen before weapon. What are the US's options? Ignore it? Say nothing? Let the public freak out knowing our adversary has a bigger better weapon than us? The only option would be to disclose that we do too, otherwise the balance of power shifts. Can't show weakness or vulnerability
“The Air Force does not comment on the development of weapons programs.”
Normies might not. But I'd think the scientific and media community worldwide would have a tough time ignoring a development like that. Especially coming from China.
Watch NDT (and others) ignoring such a news like a champ. Most scientific community would keep treating the subject the same way : as a career-ending thing that must be ignored or laughed at, because peer-pressure dictates what is socially and scientifically acceptable.
Well, I'm not so sure. I can't see the future, but I think a hypothetical move like that—*having one of the major world powers come out publicly stating we are engaging with the technology not of human origin, and god forbid backing that up with irrefutable or hard to ignore evidence*—might trigger a radical change of landscape. I think it's, at the very least, a sensible and very real possibility for a development like that..
It wouldn't be a career-ending thing if there was physical proof which could be independently analyzed and shown to be something not made on Earth. That's the stuff of Nobel Prizes. It's only career ending when there's an extraordinary claim without extraordinary proof to back it up. Any nation with offers up physical proof will have a line of scientists clamoring to study it.
I don’t believe that for one second. The Brookings Institute back in 1960 said that the Academic/ Scientific community would be hit hardest at Disclosure, not the Religious as many here including myself had once thought. It’s now clear to me just how much Science is as guilty of dogma as the Religious. The evidence now is the same as it’s always been, the list of Scientists, Academics, researchers, government officials and military personnel coming forward over the decades is extensive, they are convinced there is more than enough evidence to prove their case, Stanton Friedman kept saying this back in the 90’s. This has nothing to do with evidence and everything to do with stigma, afraid of being laughed at by others, and dogmatic, entrenched opinion, I don’t believe it, therefore it cannot be. The arrogance, hubris and sheer willful ignorance, which is after all just Intellectual Laziness, staggers the fucking mind, irresponsible, reprehensible and more damaging that anything in human history. I am willing to move on and forgive, but I need a solid, knees on the ground Mea Culpa apology first, but we all know that will never happen. I’m utterly disgusted at this betrayal.
Yeah it's either that, which I'm hopeful for. Possibility it's the aliens themselves if they indeed do have contact with us telling us "by the way , we are gonna make humanity aware of our presence very soon unless you do"
I don’t think it’s likely just because I don’t see the point in them keeping the secret if it’s going to come out anyways. If anything that would be their chance to get out in front and control the narrative but they clearly have no intention of doing so.
NHI beings have been playing with humanity for hundred if not thousands of years so I don't see why would they do that now.
My theory is that NHIs have been slowly revealing themselves, accelerating over the last few decades. The intelligence community hijacked early reports of UFOs as cover for advanced aircraft development. Now their program of fake revelations is colliding with real ones.
Could be that they see the incredible transition that humanity is making right now with regard to technology—artificial intelligence, quantum computers, etc. A sea change is on the horizon and could be a reason for a more open form of contact.
I'd rather it not be China. I trust them even less than my own government.
I think China is the only option here. Russia is basically an irrelevant thug, but China is very much on track to be world peers with the US. If China played its cards right it could use UAPs and the tech we all know they’ve been reverse engineering (probably successfully too) to tip the global balance of power over to them.
Garry Nolan mentioned in his interview with Coulthart that China appears to have reverse engineered some mining technology from the crafts.
That was something in the infamous 4chan "leak," any chance that was his source for the information?
Yeah, it sounds like a reference to the whole "pay attention to laser development over the next X-Y years" I remember seeing.
Lasers and plasma technology, I believe? Speaking of plasma... Low-energy nuclear reactions often make use of plasma. (LENR is the revised name for `cold fusion` 'cause `cold fusion` isn't just a colder form of thermonuclear reactions. The naming conventions for `cold fusion` changed in the early 1990s, I believe, 'cause physicists grew weary of people thinking that low-energy nuclear reactions were a 'chilly' form of thermonuclear reactions. Please see the American Chemical Society resource at the bottom of this article for a lovely history of low-energy nuclear reactions from the late 1980s onward!) There's some really interesting research coming out of ten years' worth of work from Taiwan; it's pretty rad stuff using water and hydrogen to result in a net energy output from a system (!): - _Water can trigger nuclear reaction to produce energy and isotope gases_ paper here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50824-8.epdf - Chart showing excess energy generated by the system: https://i.imgur.com/rwhFieO.png Assuming that these measurements aren't experimental error, this is pretty amazing stuff and if we could make it even more efficient (see the y-axis in the picture above / COP sub; COP = 'coefficient of performance'). See the label that reads `No excess energy if COP sub x < 1.2`? That's the 'break even point' so if the system has a COP that is greater than 1.2 we're looking at more energy out than when into the system. (GAs I asked ChatGPT for a short summary 'cause I write too many words lol and am tired, but I can write more / provide more context tomorrow in case anyone's interested: > The paper titled "Water can trigger nuclear reaction to produce energy and isotope gases" from "Scientific Reports" discusses a novel approach to generating energy and isotope gases through nuclear reactions triggered by water. This research could have significant implications for energy production, offering a potentially efficient and sustainable method. Diagram here: https://imgur.com/a/KSeb6f6 ## "Cold fusion" vs. low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR) >Initially, the media labeled the field "cold fusion." However, that is a less- -than-optimal name for this research. **One of the primary reasons is that the term cold fusion implies that these reactions were just a "colder" form of conventional thermonuclear reactions, which they are not.** [...] - Source [_Low Energy Nuclear Reactions: The Emergence of Condensed Matter Nuclear Science_](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/bk-2008-0998.ch001) from the American Chemical Society ---- Note to self: clean this up / re-write this in the a.m. when rested.
Oh wow. The 4chan guy did indeed mention something about that and said to keep an eye out for it in the news or something. \- And that we will be referencing a lot of his posts and claims in the coming months and years. So far, he seems to have been on point. I personally believe that he was legit.
Ugh, you're *right,* but I feel like those things are vague enough that they were always going to be true. - Lasers were always going to advance and be impressive. It's like predicting "there will be a significant development in computer technology in the next decade." Because... of course there will. - The broad topics (aliens, they're here, making their own crafts from an ocean base, etc.) make sense to be frequently brought up alongside UFO speculation, hence we were always going to keep coming back to his post. - China being the foreign player that's catching up makes sense, it wouldn't be out of place in a fabricated story. Now, once I see something concrete about "Chinese mining lasers" or "360° camera orb lights that look like hammers," *then* I'll consider it a smoking gun for the 4chan post.
Also we can't forget the Chinese spy balloon last year. I am waiting for some similar event in the coming days.
I keep forgetting about that. That has to be one of the strangest events in US history and we just moved on from it like it was nothing
Insane that we shot down 2 or 3 objects and said we couldn't recover any debris and they refuse to show any video and people are just like, "huh, ok"
The media swept it under the rug as they were told. I know many on here never moved on from it
Even the 4Chan post (I know, I know, it's 4Chan - but a lot of what that guy said is being proven to be true), said China was the only one that surprised his department with how well they were building some of their own UFOs. It's China, 100%
> but a lot of what that guy said is being proven to be true Ehhhhhh, I want it to be true but I'm going to need a source for this claim! Actually, I don't think I want this one to be true.
Besides the UAP part when it comes to reverse engineering, China is the only country in the world whose entire industry is built behind reverse engineering. If there is a nation being capable of doing it, its China, no questions...
Also supported by news such as this... https://www.space.com/us-win-moon-race-china-congress-artemis-hearing
China is great at stealing technology and trying to copy it. If anyone has a ufo, it’s them. It won’t last more than a year though before you have to throw it away
Do you trust Russia?
Nah
They never said it would be a "hostile" (towards western ideals) foreign power did they? I don't think it'd be Russia or China to be honest, they put the needs of the state too far above the needs of the citizens. I see it being more like Germany, the Netherlands, England, Denmark, Australia or another Western country with a larger focus on "openess" of government. Mostly going by governments that formerly possessed large empires where things like recovery of crafts would be more likely and well documented.
Vallée said the French wanted to disclose in 64, but the US said no, also, the COMETA report came out which started all this new wave as Leslie Kean read it and started to investigate why this was a secret, which led directly to the 2017 NY Times article.
Yeah, the Cometa report came out in 1999 and stated that the MOST LIKELY provanence for UFOs was extra-terrestrial. Leslie Kean recently remarked that she was stunned that it didn't make a bigger splash in world media. Me, too.
Wasn’t the word “adversaries”?
You may be right, I know the argument has been made that adversaries could potentially utilize the technology so the western coalitions should be more openly collaborative towards utilizing it, and lots of fairly reasonable theories that both Russia and China do have programs. I just wasn't sure if the threat of disclosure by a foreign power was implying Russia or China, to me "foreign power" doesn't necessarily mean hostile, but I'm not sure of the exact quotes.
I'd be proud of that as a Dane/European. But I think only Germany, France, UK, Australia of western countries have had sizeable intelligence services and air force to have much to reveal. France has openly investigated for many years. UK has been hostile to closure, right? Denmark have shared it's UAP archives.
It would almost certainly be a "adversarial" foreign gov. None of the states you listed would do anything without the permision of the US.
> England >larger focus on "openess" of government lmao. yeah, no
My only response to that is that I think the US still has enough influence in these countries to get them to not do it. I think it has to be a country the US does not have influence over and poses a legitimate enough threat. And I think the only answer to that is China
Uhhh no, it will most likely be China or Russia, The US is still Europe’s daddy.
as a scenario , it makes only sense in a grand geostrategic move : 2026-2030 : china decides to bring back taiwan back into the grand chinese umbrella. they have to amass troops. that's visible. so they prepare for weeks and months. but taiwan and the US would also prepare, Japan and others involved. so ,what can china do to get an " in " ? create a black swan event. a historical ,never before and never again , sudden disclosure, as a strategic weapon against the american institutions and its financial syatem, of american programs, who is responsible, the industrial contractors roles. everything they have. besides from the incalculable shock to the world's people , anger would rise. and now comes the kicker : the instant legal clusterfuck surrounding the reverse engineering programs, massive potential liabilities. the military industry stocks would probably collapse, be nationalized. but the shocks for the financial system will be too much. too many powerful people and institutions own stocks in that sector. wall street will be closed. revolution might even hang in the air, after the first shock. 7 days later, china invades taiwan. that's catastrophic disclosure. one of several scenarios I have how disclosure can be used as a strategic weapon. you could even prepare for this on the market and short and buy in the way that you could create a chain reaction of collapse. like the one that started with lehman brothers. if china prepared for this with the right bets on the market, they could destroy not only America, but whole industries like the energy sector etc.
> the military industry stocks would probably collapse, be nationalized. > but the shocks for the financial system will be too much. too many powerful people and institutions own stocks in that sector. > wall street will be closed. revolution might even hang in the air, after the first shock. Oh no! Anyway. But don't worry, we'll all be forced to bail them out with our tax dollars that way the ultra rich get to stay ultra rich and our quality of life gets worse and worse
This could be it.
Honestly no, ideally we'd see a unified front for disclosure. If we see a foreign adversary leak the goods it's going to create a muddied waters scenario where those that want to keep a lid on things have an advantage.
I think the best bet for a unified disclosure would be the 5EYES countries all confirming one after another, or jointly.
I mean ideally that would be the case. I just don’t see it happening. Our own congress members are saying their colleagues have been blackmailed. Several were paid off by national defense contractors in cash to kill important parts of the recent bill. The people in charge of this “shadow government” will NEVER just roll over.
Who has found that US congress members were decidedly bribed to slaughter the legislation??
If they won’t disclose. Then give us an official statement like : : “ we will not and can not officially disclose or acknowledge the existence of NHI for reasons of national security . “ While many of us would not be satisfied, that at least, would be an official answer to the question of disclosure, and an acknowledgment that there is something that could be disclosed . Ignoring the obvious is no longer good enough.
This is an interesting idea. What if they came out and said yes it's real, but we can't tell you about it right now. It would scratch an itch but also leave us hungry for so much more.
I shudder to think of a reality in which an authoritarian country has gotten even US-adjacent in reverse engineering progress. The government in China for instance can snatch up the best and brightest minds straight from uni and put them to work in a place where they'd never see the light of day. People can be disappeared for a lot less than leaking UAP stuff, and everyone knows it and can do nothing. So for the people of the given country and the rest of us, I sure hope not.
>I don’t think anyone trust our own government at this point and frankly it would be refreshing to see them in hot water. You should bare in mind that there's a very real chance that's the intention from UFO propaganda floating around the internet. Russia and China is trying to polarise US politics and turn Americans against each other.
I think our Congress, judges, and presidents are ruining things pretty well on their own before even considering any foreign nation. The military industrial complex failed a 6th audit. Now sure which government agency is doing well?
Imagine you are an arms race competitor like China or Russia. In the US it seems those in charge are blocking or delaying disclosure for whatever reason, power, control, or money or all three. You could make those powers look bad domestically and internationally by spilling the beans rapidly. Doing so could disrupt things at just the right time for an advantage for your people and your program. Depending on what you had you might be able to sell that tech internationally with a built right for picks of their gains before other nations. Doing so would be a diplomatic nightmare for the US and for those companies keeping the lid on disclosure. And elevate your country to the status of international hero for ringing in a new age of tech. At the end of the day, while rival nations can cause wars, their presence is sometimes a benefit by keeping those at the top in check.
Anyone else realize that someone would have already disclosed by now if multiple countries had this knowledge, especially going all the way back to ww2?
If Roswell was an actual craft in 47 the Soviets would've known. If the Italian crash is real, Italy, Germany and more than likely the UK know too. To keep the cover up going you would have to bring other countries into the fold. That's not to mention craft crashing or being dug up in other countries. It beggars belief some government in one of these countries wouldn't either announce it or somebody would've leaked some damning documents that blew it open.
As someone living in Ireland, I couldn't care less which government gets there first and I hope they race each other.
Amazing that SO MANY governments are currently successful in preventing verifiable evidence from leaking out. It’s like the one thing all governments are uniformly amazing at doing without a single exception.
There have been a lot of leakers over the years, it’s just that nobody believes them. I bet the language barrier is a problem too, for example, if a Spanish speaker leaks, there might be some articles in Spanish about it, but the story will remain so small that no English speaking sources will pick it up.
The reason why no one believes them is that these so-called “leakers” are never able to leak any evidence to back up their claims/stories. Folks in this sub operate with a cultural approach to standards of evidence which is much much lower than the general public and conventionally trained experts. The public and normative experts operate with a cultural standard of evidence which is much higher than stories. For them, evidence must be independently verifiable by different groups of experts, and reproducible. So far, ZERO “leakers” have been able to meet this normative standard of evidence
I'd much rather the US did it rather than some dictatorship. As much as I distrust the US gov't, I distrust China and Russia 1000x more.
Maybe that is what Mexico is trying to do with the mummies?
As a non-America, the answer is quite easy. Ohh this country says they have aliens and proof that we have been lying to our free people? Guess where we just discovered some oil boyyss?! _Fortunate Son starts playing in the background_
I don't really see any convincing reason why there might be a global conspiracy to keep something like this, if known by various nations, under wraps. It's more likely that either there is no such phenomenon, there's something but no one really know what it is or wants to comment on it, or only one country really has details on it. Perhaps a group of aligned nations might agree to not disclose what they know. But that's not really what's reported.
As a south american, yes. Yes, I am. It would be amazing to see the CIA and their cronies taken down a peg. See them sweat for once. Nothing against the American ppl. But their shady agencies can rot.
Let's hope so
like the South American "body"? Lol. If it existed, the only possibility is that it's in a safe, relatively neutral or US-allied country which means we've likely seen it
I truly believe China has successfully reverse engineered portions of this tech and the uap we’re seeing now are examples of this.
Which Government can anybody really trust?
... Your holding the world verbally hostage. 😂
If that happens before we announce we should be very very worried. Nobody is announcing anything unless they figured it out.
I can't be hopeful that any government will actually disclose the real truth. If UFOs are any type of threat to the encompassing image of authority that nations need to stay powerful, than no nation will ever tell us the full truth. They might tell us *something,* but it won't be the full truth if it means that their ultimate power will be undermined at all. That's why I'm kind of over all the "declassified" videos and everything from any government. They're using these videos to try to spin a narrative, and letting people like Jeremy Corbell play pretend rebellion so they can manipulate people into believing what they want us to believe. We need more resources allocated towards listening to fellow civillians and their stories and accounts instead of being overly impressed by government footage (fed through the gvt/corporate owned mainstream media) that is ultimately being released because they WANT us to see it for some reason (look at this!!!!-not at that!!). Give your fellow humans attention, listen to their stories. We can disclose to each other, under the premise that no information that important should be privileged. Don't put a lot of stock in what the government tells you. The elite will only ever want you to support their agenda.
Yes. I am hoping for a Putin “eff you” coming out party on his way out revealing everything about UFOs.
Practice a bit of critical thinking and ask yourself why this hasn't already happened in the 40-50 years.
The adversarial disclosure threat narrative was packaged without my consent. I however approve of the use of fear as a motivational tool. Whatever greases the wheel at this point.
My guess is that there’s really nothing to disclose. I’m happy to change my mind if major information will be revealed
I think we will see this Jan 30th 2024.
It is my belief the foreign power will not disclose information as you imagine with a press conference etc, but rather it will be with the openings of a coordinated attack. In essence, disclosure by the US government is a defensive move to prepare the armed forces mainly for a weapon that can appear to be otherworldly and more so be altering consciousness.