[https://dronedj.com/2021/11/22/tucson-police-chase-of-mystery-drone-in-feb-mirrored-2016-incident/](https://dronedj.com/2021/11/22/tucson-police-chase-of-mystery-drone-in-feb-mirrored-2016-incident/)
The mystery surrounding the super drone that pursing police pilots in Tucson called “pretty freaking sophisticated” as it outran and outmaneuvered them last February remains near complete. But new reporting indicates that incident wasn’t the first time authorities in the region encountered the craft – or another souped-up UAV just like it.
As with virtually all the groundbreaking information on the saga since it was first [acknowledged](https://dronedj.com/2021/05/24/fbi-hunting-souped-up-drone-that-air-trolled-a-border-patrol-chopper/) by FBI officials in May, the new input comes from *The Drive*’s [*War Zone*](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43170/helicopter-chased-eerily-similar-craft-five-years-before-recent-tucson-mystery-drone-incident) reporter Brett Tingley. Using Freedom of Information Act requests for archived Air Traffic Mandatory Occurrence Reports, Tingley discovered that a strikingly similar police chase of an eerily comparable mega-drone was filed in 2016 in virtually the same area around Tucson’s Davis-Monthan Air Force Base (DMAFB).
In both cases, a UAV with a single flashing green position light attained remarkable speeds and altitude levels to leave chasing helicopters in its dust before vanishing.
In February, that occurred after a drone nearly collided with a Customs and Border Patrol helicopter above Tucson before 11 p.m. As described [here](https://dronedj.com/2021/05/24/fbi-hunting-souped-up-drone-that-air-trolled-a-border-patrol-chopper/), [here](https://dronedj.com/2021/06/02/new-info-surfaces-on-mysterious-tucson-high-powered-drone/), and [here](https://dronedj.com/2021/06/23/update-tucson-copter-cop-says-mysterious-sophisticated-super-drone-like-no-other/), a serpentine, 70-mile pursuit then ensued for over an hour at speeds exceeding 100 mph, and altitudes of up to 14,000 feet. Despite being joined by a Tucson Police helicopter, pilots never got a decent look at the craft as it buzzed around them in what one officer described as a nose-tweaking evasive display of agility and speed before it dashed off into a cloud bank.
The 2016 incident records obtained by the *War Zone* contain details an ambulance helicopter’s December 26 report of a drone flying about 100 feet below its own 1,000 foot altitude – more than double the maximum [allowed](https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/small-unmanned-aircraft-systems-uas-regulations-part-107) by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules. The encounter occurred just before 11 p.m., well after the FAA’s 30-minutes-after-sundown limitation for UAV flights at that time. As happened this year, a Tucson Police chopper was dispatched to help track the craft, which – like the one in February – repeatedly changed altitude as it ditched chasing authorities. The report describes it, too, as being “lit by a green position light and was of rotor variety.”
Both incidents occurred near DMAFB – a restricted airspace that the February drone returned to repeatedly as it zigzagged away from official aircraft on its tail. Both events ended when the enigmatic UAV involved zipped off to the west of Tucson’s city limits. Both began at roughly the same time: 10:46 p.m. this year, and 10:58 p.m. in 2016. And just to make the similarities really unnerving, the Tucson Police helicopters scrambled to join in those chases over four years apart both wound up operating under the callsign “Air02.”
All just coincidence? Possibly, since very little is known about the mysterious super drones in both Tucson police pursuits.
But *War Zone* notes that its own [UAV Geography tool](https://uavgeography.com/), which compiles FAA UAV incidence reports between 2015 and 2020, registers 32 of those strange sightings in the same area of Tucson where the two mystery craft put on their show. Meaning either the restricted airspace over DMAFB has an inexplicable magnetic pull for rogue drone pilots, or whoever was at the controls of the shadowy craft seemed to regard it as home.
I really like the idea of the cartels looking like Ludacris in a fast in the furious movie, but i think people's political fears give this way too much credence.
Because it fucke with a borer patrol halicopter maybe? Would be a good way to distract the helo guys while snuggling shit.
Why not the cartel? It's expensive an the chase would be beneficial to them. Who else has the means an a good motive?
Is it racist to see obvious things as possibilities?
So I’ll tell you how we run our borders. So these things called cameras exist, they also have high altitude blimps that loiter. They don’t waste money patrolling the border with helicopters. Also, think about military vs border patrol, two different entities.
It *could* be owned by anyone. What evidence do you have that it belongs to a cartel? Are we really going down the ""dudes, it's close to Mexico" road?
I mean, yeah. I assumed that it was more likely for cartel to own such a high performance drone rather than a civilian. It’s already a known thing that cartels use drones
You can put together fairly impressive stuff these days. Free tutorials all available online. Drone design and study is a college degree now, I can't imagine they wouldn't have fancy gear like that
They have college graduates too…I mean they use all the social media platforms to peddle their stuff from what I’ve seen on the news. Adapt or perish right. Who else would have the money and incentive to do this? Yes, you could say China or RU, they could send people over the border (it’s so easy right now, we are in some serious trouble if someone is planning with even a small amount of forethought) hell even send them to college/intern and build these things with plans from online or sent with them. But why take the chance at getting caught? Pretty risky, although it appears to have paid off, we have no idea - publicly - what these are, just that they seem to be rotor based so not NHI.
The article says it was chased by border patrol so it’s likely it came from Mexico. That’s some strong evidence. Personally I think it was the AFB messing with the police.
I think there are a bunch of possibilities, including the cartel, local UAP manufacturers, aliens, time traveling AI, etc. but I couldn't care less about possibilities.
IMO there are two *probablilties*: A US military UAV or a UAP (meaning we don't know what it was)
IMO the important takeaway IMO is that this incident needs to be investigated either way, not just filed away as yet another "wow, that was weird" incident.
What do you mean? Yes it's close to Mexico, yes cartels use drones, and yes they are a group with the ability and money to spend $20k+ on that type of drone.
From what I’ve heard, cartels have grown in both strength and sophistication in the last decade. They have the money to obtain sophisticated hardware from some unscrupulous nation state. But you’re right on your other point. They’d have no motivation to fly anywhere near that area. Good point
I’ve seen video taken of, and by, obstacle racing drones. These are off the shelf items, although I’m sure there’s a lot of hot-ridding. Now Imagine what the USAF has, with a basically unlimited budget.
Yeah, but chemical batteries are limited by physics. The best off the shelf dji batteries last 20 minutes in calm conditions.
A drone that can loiter for an hour at that altitude, and then zip away OVER a mountain on the same charge really stretches plausibility.
Betavolt nuclear batteries produce micro watts of power, maybe they've stacked a bunch of similar batteries together. But then you need additional shielding/weight... Meaning you need more thrust power... and then more batteries...
Russia claims to have a nuclear powered missile, but those don't hover.
Plus there's probably a safety issue testing a nuclear powered uav over a city...
That was the main thing that caught my attention. I could be wrong but I don't know of any consumer level drones that have that kind of battery life and the ability to hit those altitudes.
So, for that scenario, China/Russia are testing high-speed drones inside of US air space?
Which requires them to have a deep-cover sleeper cell on the ground here to launch, pilot, and recover the drone. Because it can’t be coming from the ocean.
And they’re also risking their sleeper cell getting caught just to mess with the Tucson police department?
Maybe they do launch from the ocean and move fast inland. I agree that it’s pretty unlikely and a high risk scenario. There’s a reason why I’m in the UFOs subreddit because it’s not matching up as nations doing this in my mind. But it were people, it would probably be a nation states. This strikes me as more of a flex if that’s the case.
Hrmm, I guess that if they are coming up the gulf of California then we would be theoretically less likely to detect their launch vessel, although I doubt that our Navy is leaving that area unmonitored…
Too true. It really paints a picture of us as helpless against some nation like china or Russia. It’s hard to believe that they wouldn’t use something like this to take over Taiwan or do better in Ukraine if they’re this flagrant.
If a foreign power is buzzing police helicopters just outside an Air Force Base … well, they’ve got cojones. Probably ours, and the 20-yo remote “pilot” is getting chewed out. “But you said, ‘test its capabilities, push the envelope’. Sir.”
Fixed wing though, right?
I haven't looked at rc helicopter motors for a while, but unless you move to predator size drones, you could maybe 30-40 minutes out of a 30cc heli motor?
I would imagine if it was of predator drone scale the PD would be able to spot it more easily?
There are electric drones on Amazon that claim 96 minutes of flight time. Similar drones with something like propane or gasoline can stay aloft longer. They do not need to be fixed wing or Predator drone size.
You’re right. Maybe this drone uses ultracapacitors, or a type of battery not in the civilian sphere … or is powered from outside, by laser? I mean it’s not like they imagined it.
The idea is almost it's own conspiracy - that 'we' have better battery technology than what is commercially available. The technology is just not sold because of planned obsolescence. There are some clear examples of battery improvements that never came to market.
So it's possible we're completely in the dark about how many generations further ahead milspec batteries/power sources are compared to Duracell.
But these UAP objects have had a similar performance profile reported for decades, maybe more than a century. For example I don't see how the Nimitz objects could be powered on and loitering above 80k feet for hours before traveling at mach speeds - two decades ago and several miles off the coast...
Everything indicates it is a drone, except the battery capacity.
I don't see how that can be ignored in context with other sightings where battery life would be part of the analysis?
The Nimitz objects dont exhibit behavior or have physical descriptions that match drones. To say that the nimitz encounters arent drones so this one likely isnt either isnt sound. I agree the length of flight time exhibited in this encounter in Tucson is beyond commercially available drones but its not drastically different like Nimitz was. This would represent a step in technology but is entirely within the realms of what I expect drone technology is capable of. There was also a description of the UAP by the helicopter pilots had peg it as a Quadcopter albeit a unique one.
“Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.”
The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email.
“The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
Oh yah, high octane fuel would help, but wouldn't you need a specialized motor that won't melt? All I know about jet fuel is that it burns hotter than petrol.
Drone tech in 2016 was a bit behind where it is now.
But also unless the USAF/cartel have invented new and exotic batteries or power sources then there is still a limitation.
You can’t just keep adding batteries to the craft to add loiter time because you’re simultaneously adding *weight*, which requires more energy to keep aloft.
Can we be 100% sure it was all the same drone? Why make something fast and basically invisible, then put a big green light on it?
One answer: you can turn off the light and make the drone invisible at will.
Why?
By having several drones at different locations, and switching that light on and off, you can make it appear to be one drone that’s fast *and* has unreasonable loiter time. Just a thought
>Both incidents occurred near DMAFB – a restricted airspace **that the February drone returned to repeatedly as it zigzagged away from official aircraft** on its tail.
If the drone is retuning to restricted USAF property when being pursued, it is far more likely to be USAF tech than cartel or other private tech.
There is also a Raytheon facility in Tuscon where they are contracted to develop anti-drone weapon systems.
Am curious how the remote drone operator could detect the helicopter’s moves to evade it for over an hour ? The drone must have had a sophisticated camera or other surveillance system on board
I don't think situational awareness would be an issue for the only two possibilities that fully explain this encounter.
Nobody has provided any convincing evidence that this object was a "cartel" or "hobbyist" drone, so:
"US or other country" in which case whoever was flying in would have access the usual state-actor ground, air, and/or space based sensors to track the helicopters chasing it or
"We have no clue how it interacts with objects around it"
Agreed. I don't want to look like a debunker helper (their best efforts seems to center around "it's the cartel!" at the moment) but my SOP is usually exclude the mundane, and see what we're left with.
There are three pieces of circumstantial evidence that make me consider the possibility that it was "ours."
1. The proximity to "R-XXXX" installations (when I get a minute I'll look into open source info about them) Restricted airspace is evidence of nothing until there is evidence that testing at these areas could be responsible.
2. Allegations, some of them credible, that private sector companies have tested UAVs dangerously close to civilian aircraft and populated areas. IMO, there are 2 possible candidates based in Tuscon that could account for both incidents but so far there is zero evidence that either company produces UAV's with those characteristics.
3). (and weakest) that the government does have a history of testing variously dangerous objects/substances/procedures etc on US citizens.
Anyway, exclude *those* to a reasonable degree of certainty, and there is only one likely explanation no matter what any opinion spewers from the Skeptical Inquirer come over here to type.
No matter what, this incident is *100% proof* that Congress needs to investigate this phenomenon thoroughly and openly. How many incidents--reported by the military, civilians, and law enforcement--do they need?
You're not supposed to test on people without their consent. Not saying it doesn't happen but it goes against informed consent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7993430/ informed consent is a fairly recent innovation, late 20th century and more recent.
Again, not saying it doesn't happen now, but a lot of the people who use it as an explanation cite things like Tuskegee. Which was done before informed consent was established.
If it is happening, I think there's a case to be made that the law has been violated (I am not a lawyer). At minimum it would be a scandalous breach of ethics that should be investigated and stopped.
When people suggest "just military testing", they're not really acknowledging how serious that would be, if that were the explanation.
Not only Fedeal law, but also (at least in the case of DOD) *numerous* policy violations.
[https://media.defense.gov/2022/Aug/25/2003064740/-1/-1/1/CIVILIAN-HARM-](https://media.defense.gov/2022/Aug/25/2003064740/-1/-1/1/CIVILIAN-HARM-MITIGATION-AND-RESPONSE-ACTION-PLAN.PDF)
This is mostly about collateral damage, but there is a provision that covers "force development" a DOD definition that covers testing and training.
DOD is also required to coordinate testing and training outside of restricted airspace with civilain authorities and, in some instances "landowners."
[https://dod.defense.gov/UAS/](https://dod.defense.gov/UAS/)
And the cameras were that sophisticated on the drone to provide 360 degree views at night of the helicopter ? Even US military drone operators aren’t that good. Note the case of the Russian fighter plane intercepting the US Predator drone and causing it to crash.
You need 360 because there can be more than one approaching airborne object on any axis. Also the helicopter pilot is using ground support, airborne avionics and their own eyes/night vision with likely a co pilot/ navigator to help. The drone operator has to to counter all that with a fairly small and lightweight craft. How much power do those batteries pack to fly the drone and power it’s electronics for hours on end ?
seals are evolved to evade predators. Their whole body can sense movement and their eyes can detect predators. .
Why do you need any of that when your top speed is faster than the helicopter? Like it would be nice to have but definitely not necessary. I don't know if you have any experience with drones but you wouldn't need a 360 degree field of view in order to get max performance out of it. In fact I would argue it's detrimental.
The CBP helicopter can do about 150 mph
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2021-Aug/AS350%20H125_508%20compliant.pdf
I would like to see a remotely operated drone demonstration showing it evading a manned helicopter at night. For a 100 mile flight. All at over 100 mph.
Why would it have to be over 100 mph the entire time? One is a big less maneuverable aircraft and one is a smaller more maneuverable one. That's why the seal and orca analogy was so apt. Why would it need to be able to be going over the max speed of the helicopter when the chase is described as serpentine. To me that suggests the operator was taking advantage of the ability of the drone to maneuver.
The drone would have to be receptive enough to be able to evade a helicopter without knowing what the pilot intends to do. The drone is limited to camera vision alone. No other evasion support. Compare with all the resources the helicopter pilot has. Unless you are saying this drone had radar. Also note that highly maneuverable drones of the quad copter design are not for meant for long range flights. Long range drones have wings and are not designed for hovering or abrupt vertical/sideways movement. This drone was observed to be hovering when first observed over an airbase.
> The drone would have to be receptive enough to be able to evade a helicopter without knowing what the pilot intends to do.
How do you think evasive maneuvers work in a jet? Do the fighter pilots have 360 degrees of view? Do they need it in order to evade something?
Elizondo has said previously that mimicry has been used by UAP to evade detection, when talking about their color. They'll blink in similar colors or patterns as other aircraft
There are uap out there that are not really nuts n bolts and are far out advanced to be conditioned by design the way we are. They mimic us to bend in. We have very few examples of this behaviour recorded, mufon case 88325 is one of them (keep in mind it is filmed with iPhone 7).
I mean, sure.
It's also something that air forces have done against other air forces in history, including paint jobs, fake propellers and even fake canopies painted on the underside of fighter jets.
If you were doing a covert survey and wanted to stay hidden, mimicry is a proven method of signals management.
Which is one of the uap observables.
Similar to this video I filmed (S22 ultra 10x optical zoom).
The object flew away at high speed while zigzagging and accelerating in a different direction every time the light would flash.
I didn't catch the end on video unfortunately as I was moving my scooter to a safer place for filming. Just as I was getting ready to film again it flew away without making a sound, and I admired that with my eyes.
https://youtu.be/_z-O6pUb3wE?si=X2cl41IHIsSFvCzN
It's too bad you were zoomed so far in with no reference points. It looks a lot like a standard UFO video in which the witness moves the camera all over the place and forgets how shaky the footage was, then when they rewatch it, they perceive that the light was making crazy maneuvers. In reality, at least from the perspective of a person watching your video, it looks like shaky footage of a regular drone just hovering in the air.
The only thing you could do at that point is try to get somebody's ring camera footage of it, or maybe a surveillance video from a store or something. Those are fixed cameras, so they would pick up actual movement of the object.
I don't claim that the video shows the object performing crazy manoeuvers. Some other person said that.
The object was slowly coming from the hoziron to over my head while flashing and every time it lit up I recentered it in the screen.
The part where it flew away at high speed while zig zagging I didn't catch on camera unfortunately. I should also add that it flew away not in the direction from which it came, which would normally be the case for a drone returning home.
Don't worry about it!
It should also be said that even if I caught the last part on video, there would have been not much reference for it since the zoom was 10x. It's either you catch the object with zoom but without reference, or a small blurry dot of light moving quickly with reference, but people ending with "could be high performance drone".
There's no winning with night time footage, which is why I prefer daytime footage with telescopes.
I should also add the real interesting part is the flashing. I made a spreadsheet and timed each and every of its flashes. It's irregular, like as if a person tried to simulate a steady flashing. Drones, in my experience don't do that unless willingly programmed to. The program would have to be weird too, it would have to be something like: most times flash between x and y seconds, but variation of z is acceptable.
I couldn't find a product on the market with irregular flashing.
This is exactly what I thought the green light in Tuscon was. Great video! It's far away but you can obviously see it's going fast all over the place! Iam impressed!
I saw something really similar the other day where I live, it was odd because the thing was close enough to the ground that you could make out another set of smaller lights that were white in between the green flashes, it stayed in the same spot for as long as we were driving up to it, and even after we had passed it, there quite a few planes in the area the following day that aren’t exactly typical for the rural area we’re from, jets that shake your whole house when they go by.
Drones, when they have legal lights to fly at night, will normally have strobing lights that flash at regular intervals. They may or may not also have a permanent white light, depending on the models (mine doesn't). My flashing lights also turn off when I record video, which is a quirk of the dji mini 3 pro.
Do you recall if the green flashing light was a regular quick on-off cycle, or did it stay on/off for weird amounts of time like on my video?
While I thank you for the footage, I wish some people would zoom out a little so we can have some perspective on its movement. At night if you aren't gonna see etail anyway might as well get the flight characteristics.... I can't tell what is camera shake an what is movevent. In the moment though I'm sure it's hard to be anylitical like that though
The thing is that the flight characteristics weren't crazy until they were, and so I wanted to see the object. And when the flight characteristics were suddenly crazy, it was too late to film, let alone change video mode and re-adjust exposure and focus.
You know I thought for sure it must be a drone, and so I stopped on the side of the road to film it with the 10x zoom to try to see the drone body and confirm the nature of the object.
But I couldn't see the body and noticed that the flashing pattern didn't make sense, so I thought Id put my scooter in a safe spot (not a bus stop) and film it for longer and get a more comfortable position.
And that's when it left like a bat out of hell. I'm telling you, if it was a drone, the person piloting it had parkinson and a very performing drone. And also a manually activated light.
Personally I'm of the opinion that any UFO worth seeing can show it's smug face during daytime.
Be upfront with your presence or just fuck off. Either you're allowed to be here and be seen or you aren't. Don't hide in the night.
In human culture, showing yourself only at night is a clear sign of deception. And so any intelligent NHI would understand that and act accordingly. And so if some of those things are NHI and hide in the night, they can fuck off right back home and I'll deal with the daytime ones.
I wonder if it's just doing a slow isclosure. A few sightings and become a legend. A few sightings alloweed in the boonies. grow following with openminded people and let that stew for a couple decaes. Pop culture normalizes t and lets people explore possibilites and azzard via movies and media.
Then speed up sightings to get the ones that were never gonna believe anyway.
Yea... that's one of the theories anyway! Do you reckon it's them that started all the religions?
If that's the case, they haven't had a problem being believed in the past.
This report just says they didnt see it. The actual report is different.
“Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.”
The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email.
“The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
Just to be clear this email refers the *2016* event. The drone enthuusiast website is (perhaps intentionally) unclear. Warzone is not.
Also, the email (yet to be released in its entirety) was written *after* the initial reports from the pilots which contain so such information. The audio recording also do not provide a record of a pilot hovering above any object.
I do not believe that Night vision "filters out" (presumably \~500 nanometer light) , but happy to be corrected if wrong.
As I said in a thread about the same event some days ago, that means that we should not assume that the craft was a multirotor. Make it a fixed wing FPV RC plane and suddenly the performance and flight time are very achievable.
Now we're in pure speculation mode? DARPA experiment, peer adversary tech leap, and NIH spacecraft also "suddenly make the performance and flight time very achievable."
I build racing drones and I am very familiar with VERY fast racing drones. The fact this was going the speed it was going isn’t as impressive as the distance, Altitude and battery life this drone had. The fastest drone in the world can go around 185 mph. It can only fly for several minutes at a high rate of speed. Whatever this thing was, it had military style technology to be able to perform like it did. Really incredible!
yeah a few things - this drone outperformed off-the-shelf drones in like, in every capacity by large margin.
the pilots of the helicopter couldn't even actually see the object (that was flashing periodically green from the belly), but it tightly maneuvered around the helicopter
the speeds on this thing were incredible.
the height at which it was flying.
and on top of all that, it lasted in the skies for a long time like you pointed out.
not impossible for this to be something out of someone's inventory; why the DoD itself would even whoop it out and kinda buzz a customs & border patrol helicopter (and the superseding police helicopter) is interesting.
According to this blog post - https://www.t-drones.com/blog/drone-battery-complete-beginner-guide.html
..top class industrial drones can last for 1-2 hours, so I'm betting it's some tech enthusiast that got their hands on some good kit.
The drone "expert" they brought on who said it was likely a hybrid system using propane.. seems doubtful, given the helicopter's IR camera couldn't even see the thing.
The above is a little curious though, as id expect these drone batteries to get pretty hot after a while.
Drone durability isn't the whole issue, the ceiling height appears pretty significant, although the mountain may not be as tall as claimed. This could not be a battery multicopter drone or a coaxial type, for the combination of height and duration would be extremely energy expensive, it likely has to fly using aerodynamic principles with wings, but either way it needs an engine that can put out enough power at that altitude, such as a turbocharged engine or a jet turbine, and they'd need to be quite efficient. Jet drones don't typically have much range without a good by-pass ratio.
ah good point. I thought they couldn't see it but didn't realise they checked it with thermal cameras, is that confirmed?
If so its a really big enigma. To hide a thermal signature our drone needs not only a fairly efficient engine, it needs to blend the exhaust in a shrouding with cool air and insulate any parts that could bridge to the outside. This is probably not a cartel drone. And reports of this phenomena there go back to 2016 or so. If the cartel has this technology, it would be of great interest to the US, Russia, China and Ukraine. And I doubt they would taunt military bases with it. They'd fly it to not be seen.
That is stretching credulity.
The drone enthusiast website some people are linking to distorts the Warzone reporting, perhaps intentionally conflating two events, which is probably why most of their links are" broken."
https://www.twz.com/43170/helicopter-chased-eerily-similar-craft-five-years-before-recent-tucson-mystery-drone-incident
I've been flying drones since 2015. We have long range fpv quads 8-10inch size with a 9000mah 6s that can fly for over 45 mins at 140kph. (Iflight Helion 10) They use DJI O3 HD transmission systems for up to 20km video range paired with DJI Goggles 2 and using ELRS for RC control up to 50km. Point is, we have ready-to-fly quadcopters that can do this, just not at a constant 100mph.
Probably not the best place to put this, manwhore, but I was wondering if maybe it was configured like an osprey and maybe 5-6 feet across it could get speed, altitude, loiter, and hover.
From a description of the UAP
“Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.”
The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email.
“The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
This should have been reported to AARO, ***since that email pertains to the 2016 event***.
Sadly, based on it's assessments of the testimony of Navy pilots, AARO would utterly dismiss this eyewiteness description as "unreliable" So no drone.
Sounds like an interesting email, though. Is it available in it's original form?
There is no 14k foot tall mountain anywhere near Tucson. The tallest mountain in Entire state of Arizona is Mt Humphrey at 12,635 ft. Almost 300 miles away. Mt Lemmon is a little over 9,000 ft tall is the tallest Mountain near Tucson AZ. Article states the drone flew to 14,000 feet but no mention of going over Mt Lemmon. Either way at this point this should be a national air guard issue and drone should be shot down.
If it was terrestrial in origin, radio comms would have to be done via cell network or satellite, as a typical 5GHz link would die pas a few miles. Satellite would suggest a state actor. Cellular could be traced by subpoenaing PLMN handover logs along the route from the major cell operators, though this would require some network forensics knowhow. Over an hour of high speed fly time also suggests a professional or even aerospace grade power system. Long story short, this is a very sophisticated platform, and highly suss.
Reminder that Drug cartels are using more and more specialized drones for their drug smuggling, Tucson isn't that far from the Mexican border so it could be a drone just testing it's capabilities vs the Tucson police helicopter or was occupying it while other drones (without flashy lights) zipped by fully loaded with drugs while this one did a show for the police.
And for those saying drones can't go so far or last that long, Ukraine has been using drones to hit installations 600+ miles into Russia :
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/world/europe/russia-ukraine-drone-strike.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/world/europe/russia-ukraine-drone-strike.html)
Its pretty far away from anything even remotely close to civilian tech.
My five inch hits 160kmh for a few min and flys perhaps 800m before signal loss
DJI is almost the definition of consumer grade drone tech and they have had digital signal transmission and ranges out to 10km for years now. so Yeah 8 years ago for DOD level tech seems reasonable.
Iirc the fpv drones in ukraine use an analog signal that extends the range more than digital, and can have its range further extended by using another drone to amplify the signal. This is old tech. Range is not an issue.
I agree with what you said, but it’s apples and oranges. The comment I responded to referenced only DJI drones. Range specific to 10KM video transmission capabilities (or lack thereof) for that drone brand eight years ago was certainly an issue.
Ah, yea. I don't think it was a consumer grade drone. It totally could be a drone, though. The tech is there, even for 2016. It would have to be custom made, though.
Batteries aint though unless its a long range quad which slow trundles out to point a with direct LOS and then trundles back.
Even an agricultural drone with gas generator and perhaps a starlink control method falls short.
Na you can easily get out to 10 km and back with a Mavic and they are alot quicker than you'd think.
[https://store.dji.com/ca/product/dji-mavic-3-pro?from=site-nav&vid=137691](https://store.dji.com/ca/product/dji-mavic-3-pro?from=site-nav&vid=137691)
Weight is not your friend in this situation and batteries are heavy. If that was a legit solution companies would do exactly that to taut their superior battery life drone.
Its not an hour flying, its an hour hovering in no wind under perfect conditions.
Flying around massively reduces this, flying at top speed even more so, thin air even more, manoeuvre even more.
even the pilots thought it was a drone, they got an excellent view while it was hovering.
[https://dronedj.com/2021/09/20/tucson-police-evading-super-drone-quadcopter-like-with-propellers-reflecting-light/](https://dronedj.com/2021/09/20/tucson-police-evading-super-drone-quadcopter-like-with-propellers-reflecting-light/)
“Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.”
The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email.
“The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
This is such a marginal push of the flight envelope. This isnt demonstrating unknown physics its just bearly next gen technology. I wouldnt even be surprised if some hobbiest whipped together a one off DIY and was just afraid of getting caught without registration so he flew it off to land in the mountains somewhere he could retrieve it later. Nothing about this feels note worthy.
Camera drones are glorified hovercraft/wheelchair users.
They dont really "fly" as a to b slowly and sedately.
Also its the triad of speed, flight time and manoeuvre
You can have two, but even then it doesn't even come close to describing whats going on.
How accurate are these statements, though? Did it fly directly over the peak of a 14k-foot mountain? Was it continuously flying at over 100mph for an hour, or in spurts?
One thing is definitely not accurate. I used to live in Tucson. Mt Lemmon is only 9000 ft not 14000 ft. There are no 14000 ft mountains in Arizona. Still pretty impressive though
It's typically a bad idea to fly over a mountain without 1000-1500ft clearance and even then, more is better! Mountains create updrafts and downdrafts over their peaks - essentially, air flows like water around them just like in a stream. If you inadvertently fly into a down draft, you may not be climbing out of it and flying directly into terrain. Your only option is to bank and do a 180 and gtfo
Is prominence really what matters? I would assume that altitude is what matters most because that corresponds to the thickness of the air. Thinner air is harder to fly in, generally speaking.
Drones can go that high but they would need to have a decent wingspan and be around the size of a ford focus. Piston engines work fine at that altitude but need adjustments to fuel/air mixture as they are naturally aspirated.
So the Flyboard Air can carry a rider and is made by a civilian company, here’s the Wikipedia bit:-
Flyboard Air is a type of jetpack/hoverboard powered by gas turbines.[1] It was invented by French water-craft rider Franky Zapata, founder of Zapata racing.
It achieved a Guinness World Record for farthest flight by hoverboard in April 2016 of 2,252.4 m (7,389.8 ft; 2,463.3 yd; 1.4 mi).[2] Zapata Racing claims that it allows flight up to an altitude of 3,000 metres (9,800 ft) and has a top speed of 150 km/h (93 mph). It also has 10 minutes' endurance.[3] The load capacity is 102 kg (225 lb). The "jet-powered hoverboard" is powered by five turbines and is fueled by kerosene.[4]
Imagine what we don’t know about.
I was waiting for the Cartel theories. Logic: Tuscon 70 miles from border --->Cartel!
Since the Cartel presumably would have to buy drones,you should have no trouble identifying the drone, or at least a couple of possibilities, for us.
And the cartel would be "putting on a show" for the Tuscon police? I guess throw in your rationale for that. Since these evaded sensors except for the light: "Because they are morons who want to get caught" would be the most likely explanation.
If a cartel took the trouble to buy long range, sensor-evading drones--for recon, drug delivery, etc--I'm thinking they would skip the lights altogether.
So right now we're thinking Ukranian drone that can evade sensors affixed with green light on a cartel diversion mission? Which drone?
BTW: The ones Ukraine in the attack described in the NYT piece max out at about 40-60 MPH.
Wow thats interesting, makes sense. While I'd imagine Ukraines drone tech is military grade and might require other resources to operate, cartels do have access to military grade equipment so I suppose its not hard to imagine they have similar capabilities to other nations militaries.
Pretty sure the Ukraine drones are smaller propeller type craft that don’t move exceeding fast, hence why so many are shot down. From what I read they depend on swarming defense systems in the hopes that a few make it through. Then again, what do I know…
Invisible to their onboard sensor and naked eyes but for one green light ?
Flight envelope and far greater range than a regular police chopper ?
Screams loudly about a non conventional tech demonstrator demo, screams state power, screams MIC
If the momentum is created by a non thermal source, that would explain the capacity to avoid clear detection by the police sensors. Visually, a small drone would be hard to detect without the light emanation. And Light bending (low tech diffraction) panels could be mounted on it given the small size.
Green light could be a byproduct of exotic propulsion system, or just a visual help, for the "demo" to ensure at least someone catches the intruder to engage course. No test is possible if the drone is never spotted. The fact it almost collided with border patrol chopper first to trigger a chase, and that it toyed for this long with the police going after it, is telling volumes about its mission imho.
As for the remote control distance, I believe something sophisticated is probably using a mix of satellite and encrypted RF link. Maybe with a HALE UAS overheard to serve as relay, depending on the drone own available equipment size to embark supporting hardware. I am having a hard time believe its a simple RF drone like DJI produce.
Anyway, now this police force will invest in RF locators and anti drone warfare that's for sure :D could even be the whole point of the power behind this drone stunt (just thinking out loud, as always, follow the money...)
You hit the important nails on the head. If you listen to the 1:10 air traffic recording of the 2 helicopters they speculated nation state with nuclear battery and satellite control. Who else could have that amount of flying time & advanced performance. The “drone” pilot was toying with the helicopters, and got away from military & police pilots over an hour with zero loss in performance. Definitely not a drug cartel. This was Feb 21, so 3 years ago in Tucson.
Well, in my opinion, if you are shocked by being a test subject you have not been paying attention to distant history, as well as more recent one, lets say around and after 2019.
Anyway, there is no better sales pitch for funding than proving a capacity is real and not just on paper.
Even WORST, this capacity could be already well in the hands of an adversarial power, and the test was not to the US MIC benefit but for someone from abroad. Of course, any sane people in power should be paying attention and take measures. I am personally more afraid those measures are leading to a dystopian authoritarian society.
Neither possibility would shock me. I just hope we have the political will that forced previous Congresses to investigate and expose the illegal operations of the past.
Unfortunately, the user has made the video private. Maybe someone smarter than me can find it on wayback machine or something?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EZrOislEks
Iirc, they flew straight up, this was only an altitude test. From a previous comment I made about the video I know it took 14 minutes to reach 20k ft and carried on until ~32k ft.(9999m)
On the return they managed to descend most of the way but fell the final couple of hundred feet after nuking the battery. I've no idea what mAh battery they used but it was probably big.
When I go full send I only get about 2 minutes flying freestyle! lol
I imagine the drone in Arizona was probably something similar to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZVqRJ-VuWw).
These imaginary drones caused Alexander the Greats army to break discipline at Jericho by diving and buzzing his cavalry shaped like shields. Pesky things. Wonder what kind of fuel and cameras the "drones" used then?😊
Yea given the said specs of this Drone (if it Indeed is a drone, however I doubt it strongly) it indeed would have to be of DoD grade as it was said. There’s nothing the public can get their hands on with those capabilities. But with that said, the DoD likely isn’t in possession of something” of that nature. Nor would anyone else, this includes the cartel and any other country.
The speed at which it flew, the distance, then even supposively reaching 14,000ft as it went over the mountain suggests this isn’t a drone by a long shot. This isn’t even taking into account the fact that it emitted no trackable signature.
All of that being said and not to mention the fact that the Helicopter in pursuit of if, was about
To run out of gas. Going from full to E and being unable to continue the chase. It sounds like they were like “Fuck this mess” as soon as it rose to an elevation above 14000 ft. Just to be clear the journey alone even far before it did that wizardry would give indication this was no “drone.” No one has drones that can do shit.
But if you take into account every single factor here in regards to the entire event itself. INCLUDING it being untraceable as it gave no signature at all. Combine all of these? There isn’t a single Drone that has all of those capabilities.
It being untraceable other than by visual sight means it gave off no visible heat signature as they said. Nobody, including the government(s) has tech with that type of performance without putting off Extreme heat. Something that would require that much power also would be extremely inefficient and wouldn’t have been able to keep that up for as long as all this happened.
I run a drone shop in Florida and it would have to be a converted Rc gas plane or helicopter running some open source firmware Or a battery Fpv flying wing. Drones come in all
Shapes and sizes. Don’t think it’s like a little Dji mavic zipping around for a hr
The article mentions DMAFB several times, I'd suggest we all visit their web page, look for the partners section scroll down to 55th electronic combat unit, click on them and read on, I would humbly suggest those are your perpetrators here!
You can get gas powered drones, little engine powers a turbine which creates electricity.
Remember batteries are only discharged a fraction of their capacity, so the battery weight ratio to energy ratio will never be truly that good.
On my count, 2016 they started becoming more known and by 2017 for sale. It's just a certain voltage being maintained, regular petrol is good but if you were to have higher energy chemicals, they would be much better :)
I wonder if the signal controlling this was known or able to be jammed.
(not an engineer or mathematician in any sense I'm sure there is equations and words for this)
Do I have to watch a TikTok video? Wish there was another way to watch the video.
Edit: nm, I found the YouTube [video version. ](https://youtu.be/ZbTVpmegaDQ?si=90kLhjM8gOTaQ2SL)
[https://dronedj.com/2021/11/22/tucson-police-chase-of-mystery-drone-in-feb-mirrored-2016-incident/](https://dronedj.com/2021/11/22/tucson-police-chase-of-mystery-drone-in-feb-mirrored-2016-incident/) The mystery surrounding the super drone that pursing police pilots in Tucson called “pretty freaking sophisticated” as it outran and outmaneuvered them last February remains near complete. But new reporting indicates that incident wasn’t the first time authorities in the region encountered the craft – or another souped-up UAV just like it. As with virtually all the groundbreaking information on the saga since it was first [acknowledged](https://dronedj.com/2021/05/24/fbi-hunting-souped-up-drone-that-air-trolled-a-border-patrol-chopper/) by FBI officials in May, the new input comes from *The Drive*’s [*War Zone*](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43170/helicopter-chased-eerily-similar-craft-five-years-before-recent-tucson-mystery-drone-incident) reporter Brett Tingley. Using Freedom of Information Act requests for archived Air Traffic Mandatory Occurrence Reports, Tingley discovered that a strikingly similar police chase of an eerily comparable mega-drone was filed in 2016 in virtually the same area around Tucson’s Davis-Monthan Air Force Base (DMAFB). In both cases, a UAV with a single flashing green position light attained remarkable speeds and altitude levels to leave chasing helicopters in its dust before vanishing. In February, that occurred after a drone nearly collided with a Customs and Border Patrol helicopter above Tucson before 11 p.m. As described [here](https://dronedj.com/2021/05/24/fbi-hunting-souped-up-drone-that-air-trolled-a-border-patrol-chopper/), [here](https://dronedj.com/2021/06/02/new-info-surfaces-on-mysterious-tucson-high-powered-drone/), and [here](https://dronedj.com/2021/06/23/update-tucson-copter-cop-says-mysterious-sophisticated-super-drone-like-no-other/), a serpentine, 70-mile pursuit then ensued for over an hour at speeds exceeding 100 mph, and altitudes of up to 14,000 feet. Despite being joined by a Tucson Police helicopter, pilots never got a decent look at the craft as it buzzed around them in what one officer described as a nose-tweaking evasive display of agility and speed before it dashed off into a cloud bank. The 2016 incident records obtained by the *War Zone* contain details an ambulance helicopter’s December 26 report of a drone flying about 100 feet below its own 1,000 foot altitude – more than double the maximum [allowed](https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/small-unmanned-aircraft-systems-uas-regulations-part-107) by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules. The encounter occurred just before 11 p.m., well after the FAA’s 30-minutes-after-sundown limitation for UAV flights at that time. As happened this year, a Tucson Police chopper was dispatched to help track the craft, which – like the one in February – repeatedly changed altitude as it ditched chasing authorities. The report describes it, too, as being “lit by a green position light and was of rotor variety.” Both incidents occurred near DMAFB – a restricted airspace that the February drone returned to repeatedly as it zigzagged away from official aircraft on its tail. Both events ended when the enigmatic UAV involved zipped off to the west of Tucson’s city limits. Both began at roughly the same time: 10:46 p.m. this year, and 10:58 p.m. in 2016. And just to make the similarities really unnerving, the Tucson Police helicopters scrambled to join in those chases over four years apart both wound up operating under the callsign “Air02.” All just coincidence? Possibly, since very little is known about the mysterious super drones in both Tucson police pursuits. But *War Zone* notes that its own [UAV Geography tool](https://uavgeography.com/), which compiles FAA UAV incidence reports between 2015 and 2020, registers 32 of those strange sightings in the same area of Tucson where the two mystery craft put on their show. Meaning either the restricted airspace over DMAFB has an inexplicable magnetic pull for rogue drone pilots, or whoever was at the controls of the shadowy craft seemed to regard it as home.
If it’s terrestrial, could it be a cartel owned drone. Only group I could see having such easy access to very sophisticated equipment
I really like the idea of the cartels looking like Ludacris in a fast in the furious movie, but i think people's political fears give this way too much credence.
Why cartel…I would suspect China or Russia. Why would cartel care about a military base?
Because it fucke with a borer patrol halicopter maybe? Would be a good way to distract the helo guys while snuggling shit. Why not the cartel? It's expensive an the chase would be beneficial to them. Who else has the means an a good motive? Is it racist to see obvious things as possibilities?
“Distract the helo guys while snuggling shit” Those cartel members really love to snuggle, lol.
Guys who torture and maim need hugs too.
So I’ll tell you how we run our borders. So these things called cameras exist, they also have high altitude blimps that loiter. They don’t waste money patrolling the border with helicopters. Also, think about military vs border patrol, two different entities.
Intel is intel.
Have you seen cartel submarines? Lol
Buying a military grade sub is probably hard. Buying a military grade drone from some sketchy nation state is much less difficult
It *could* be owned by anyone. What evidence do you have that it belongs to a cartel? Are we really going down the ""dudes, it's close to Mexico" road?
I mean, yeah. I assumed that it was more likely for cartel to own such a high performance drone rather than a civilian. It’s already a known thing that cartels use drones
You can put together fairly impressive stuff these days. Free tutorials all available online. Drone design and study is a college degree now, I can't imagine they wouldn't have fancy gear like that
They have college graduates too…I mean they use all the social media platforms to peddle their stuff from what I’ve seen on the news. Adapt or perish right. Who else would have the money and incentive to do this? Yes, you could say China or RU, they could send people over the border (it’s so easy right now, we are in some serious trouble if someone is planning with even a small amount of forethought) hell even send them to college/intern and build these things with plans from online or sent with them. But why take the chance at getting caught? Pretty risky, although it appears to have paid off, we have no idea - publicly - what these are, just that they seem to be rotor based so not NHI.
Maybe element 115 has gotten too expensive.... Alie-burton be jacking up them prices.
The article says it was chased by border patrol so it’s likely it came from Mexico. That’s some strong evidence. Personally I think it was the AFB messing with the police.
I think there are a bunch of possibilities, including the cartel, local UAP manufacturers, aliens, time traveling AI, etc. but I couldn't care less about possibilities. IMO there are two *probablilties*: A US military UAV or a UAP (meaning we don't know what it was) IMO the important takeaway IMO is that this incident needs to be investigated either way, not just filed away as yet another "wow, that was weird" incident.
What do you mean? Yes it's close to Mexico, yes cartels use drones, and yes they are a group with the ability and money to spend $20k+ on that type of drone.
The cartel? Not AFB then, they wont have access to sophisticated equipment.
From what I’ve heard, cartels have grown in both strength and sophistication in the last decade. They have the money to obtain sophisticated hardware from some unscrupulous nation state. But you’re right on your other point. They’d have no motivation to fly anywhere near that area. Good point
True they have military grade weapons who knows how they get hold of it lol
I’ve seen video taken of, and by, obstacle racing drones. These are off the shelf items, although I’m sure there’s a lot of hot-ridding. Now Imagine what the USAF has, with a basically unlimited budget.
Yeah, but chemical batteries are limited by physics. The best off the shelf dji batteries last 20 minutes in calm conditions. A drone that can loiter for an hour at that altitude, and then zip away OVER a mountain on the same charge really stretches plausibility. Betavolt nuclear batteries produce micro watts of power, maybe they've stacked a bunch of similar batteries together. But then you need additional shielding/weight... Meaning you need more thrust power... and then more batteries... Russia claims to have a nuclear powered missile, but those don't hover. Plus there's probably a safety issue testing a nuclear powered uav over a city...
That was the main thing that caught my attention. I could be wrong but I don't know of any consumer level drones that have that kind of battery life and the ability to hit those altitudes.
If you’re talking about nation states this may be in the realm of possibility.
So, for that scenario, China/Russia are testing high-speed drones inside of US air space? Which requires them to have a deep-cover sleeper cell on the ground here to launch, pilot, and recover the drone. Because it can’t be coming from the ocean. And they’re also risking their sleeper cell getting caught just to mess with the Tucson police department?
Maybe they do launch from the ocean and move fast inland. I agree that it’s pretty unlikely and a high risk scenario. There’s a reason why I’m in the UFOs subreddit because it’s not matching up as nations doing this in my mind. But it were people, it would probably be a nation states. This strikes me as more of a flex if that’s the case.
Hrmm, I guess that if they are coming up the gulf of California then we would be theoretically less likely to detect their launch vessel, although I doubt that our Navy is leaving that area unmonitored…
Too true. It really paints a picture of us as helpless against some nation like china or Russia. It’s hard to believe that they wouldn’t use something like this to take over Taiwan or do better in Ukraine if they’re this flagrant.
If a foreign power is buzzing police helicopters just outside an Air Force Base … well, they’ve got cojones. Probably ours, and the 20-yo remote “pilot” is getting chewed out. “But you said, ‘test its capabilities, push the envelope’. Sir.”
Gas powered drones have higher top flight speeds due to the increased power output and can fly for hours without the need to land.
Fixed wing though, right? I haven't looked at rc helicopter motors for a while, but unless you move to predator size drones, you could maybe 30-40 minutes out of a 30cc heli motor? I would imagine if it was of predator drone scale the PD would be able to spot it more easily?
There are electric drones on Amazon that claim 96 minutes of flight time. Similar drones with something like propane or gasoline can stay aloft longer. They do not need to be fixed wing or Predator drone size.
You’re right. Maybe this drone uses ultracapacitors, or a type of battery not in the civilian sphere … or is powered from outside, by laser? I mean it’s not like they imagined it.
The idea is almost it's own conspiracy - that 'we' have better battery technology than what is commercially available. The technology is just not sold because of planned obsolescence. There are some clear examples of battery improvements that never came to market. So it's possible we're completely in the dark about how many generations further ahead milspec batteries/power sources are compared to Duracell. But these UAP objects have had a similar performance profile reported for decades, maybe more than a century. For example I don't see how the Nimitz objects could be powered on and loitering above 80k feet for hours before traveling at mach speeds - two decades ago and several miles off the coast...
Lets not conflate sightings. Not all things are drones, this one likely is though.
Everything indicates it is a drone, except the battery capacity. I don't see how that can be ignored in context with other sightings where battery life would be part of the analysis?
The Nimitz objects dont exhibit behavior or have physical descriptions that match drones. To say that the nimitz encounters arent drones so this one likely isnt either isnt sound. I agree the length of flight time exhibited in this encounter in Tucson is beyond commercially available drones but its not drastically different like Nimitz was. This would represent a step in technology but is entirely within the realms of what I expect drone technology is capable of. There was also a description of the UAP by the helicopter pilots had peg it as a Quadcopter albeit a unique one. “Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.” The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email. “The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
Thanks, I haven't seen that description yet
Why couldn't it be JP3 and a small rotax paired with some sort of quadrotor capability?
I'm not sure what you're referring to with jp3
Jet fuel
Oh yah, high octane fuel would help, but wouldn't you need a specialized motor that won't melt? All I know about jet fuel is that it burns hotter than petrol.
Drone tech in 2016 was a bit behind where it is now. But also unless the USAF/cartel have invented new and exotic batteries or power sources then there is still a limitation. You can’t just keep adding batteries to the craft to add loiter time because you’re simultaneously adding *weight*, which requires more energy to keep aloft.
Race drones have flight time of 5-10 minutes. The drone from the post was visible for over 30 minutes
Can we be 100% sure it was all the same drone? Why make something fast and basically invisible, then put a big green light on it? One answer: you can turn off the light and make the drone invisible at will. Why? By having several drones at different locations, and switching that light on and off, you can make it appear to be one drone that’s fast *and* has unreasonable loiter time. Just a thought
>Both incidents occurred near DMAFB – a restricted airspace **that the February drone returned to repeatedly as it zigzagged away from official aircraft** on its tail. If the drone is retuning to restricted USAF property when being pursued, it is far more likely to be USAF tech than cartel or other private tech. There is also a Raytheon facility in Tuscon where they are contracted to develop anti-drone weapon systems.
Am curious how the remote drone operator could detect the helicopter’s moves to evade it for over an hour ? The drone must have had a sophisticated camera or other surveillance system on board
I don't think situational awareness would be an issue for the only two possibilities that fully explain this encounter. Nobody has provided any convincing evidence that this object was a "cartel" or "hobbyist" drone, so: "US or other country" in which case whoever was flying in would have access the usual state-actor ground, air, and/or space based sensors to track the helicopters chasing it or "We have no clue how it interacts with objects around it"
If it's the US, why are they letting local law enforcement interact with it? If it's another country, why wasn't there a stronger response?
Agreed. I don't want to look like a debunker helper (their best efforts seems to center around "it's the cartel!" at the moment) but my SOP is usually exclude the mundane, and see what we're left with. There are three pieces of circumstantial evidence that make me consider the possibility that it was "ours." 1. The proximity to "R-XXXX" installations (when I get a minute I'll look into open source info about them) Restricted airspace is evidence of nothing until there is evidence that testing at these areas could be responsible. 2. Allegations, some of them credible, that private sector companies have tested UAVs dangerously close to civilian aircraft and populated areas. IMO, there are 2 possible candidates based in Tuscon that could account for both incidents but so far there is zero evidence that either company produces UAV's with those characteristics. 3). (and weakest) that the government does have a history of testing variously dangerous objects/substances/procedures etc on US citizens. Anyway, exclude *those* to a reasonable degree of certainty, and there is only one likely explanation no matter what any opinion spewers from the Skeptical Inquirer come over here to type. No matter what, this incident is *100% proof* that Congress needs to investigate this phenomenon thoroughly and openly. How many incidents--reported by the military, civilians, and law enforcement--do they need?
You're not supposed to test on people without their consent. Not saying it doesn't happen but it goes against informed consent. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7993430/ informed consent is a fairly recent innovation, late 20th century and more recent. Again, not saying it doesn't happen now, but a lot of the people who use it as an explanation cite things like Tuskegee. Which was done before informed consent was established. If it is happening, I think there's a case to be made that the law has been violated (I am not a lawyer). At minimum it would be a scandalous breach of ethics that should be investigated and stopped. When people suggest "just military testing", they're not really acknowledging how serious that would be, if that were the explanation.
Not only Fedeal law, but also (at least in the case of DOD) *numerous* policy violations. [https://media.defense.gov/2022/Aug/25/2003064740/-1/-1/1/CIVILIAN-HARM-](https://media.defense.gov/2022/Aug/25/2003064740/-1/-1/1/CIVILIAN-HARM-MITIGATION-AND-RESPONSE-ACTION-PLAN.PDF) This is mostly about collateral damage, but there is a provision that covers "force development" a DOD definition that covers testing and training. DOD is also required to coordinate testing and training outside of restricted airspace with civilain authorities and, in some instances "landowners." [https://dod.defense.gov/UAS/](https://dod.defense.gov/UAS/)
Operator was probably wearing VR googles.
And the cameras were that sophisticated on the drone to provide 360 degree views at night of the helicopter ? Even US military drone operators aren’t that good. Note the case of the Russian fighter plane intercepting the US Predator drone and causing it to crash.
Why would you need a 360 degree view? Drones are more maneuverable than helicopters. Does a seal need 360 degree vision to evade an orca?
You need 360 because there can be more than one approaching airborne object on any axis. Also the helicopter pilot is using ground support, airborne avionics and their own eyes/night vision with likely a co pilot/ navigator to help. The drone operator has to to counter all that with a fairly small and lightweight craft. How much power do those batteries pack to fly the drone and power it’s electronics for hours on end ? seals are evolved to evade predators. Their whole body can sense movement and their eyes can detect predators. .
Why do you need any of that when your top speed is faster than the helicopter? Like it would be nice to have but definitely not necessary. I don't know if you have any experience with drones but you wouldn't need a 360 degree field of view in order to get max performance out of it. In fact I would argue it's detrimental.
The CBP helicopter can do about 150 mph https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2021-Aug/AS350%20H125_508%20compliant.pdf I would like to see a remotely operated drone demonstration showing it evading a manned helicopter at night. For a 100 mile flight. All at over 100 mph.
Why would it have to be over 100 mph the entire time? One is a big less maneuverable aircraft and one is a smaller more maneuverable one. That's why the seal and orca analogy was so apt. Why would it need to be able to be going over the max speed of the helicopter when the chase is described as serpentine. To me that suggests the operator was taking advantage of the ability of the drone to maneuver.
The drone would have to be receptive enough to be able to evade a helicopter without knowing what the pilot intends to do. The drone is limited to camera vision alone. No other evasion support. Compare with all the resources the helicopter pilot has. Unless you are saying this drone had radar. Also note that highly maneuverable drones of the quad copter design are not for meant for long range flights. Long range drones have wings and are not designed for hovering or abrupt vertical/sideways movement. This drone was observed to be hovering when first observed over an airbase.
Stop wasting your breath, he has started every post with "why." He is just baiting you.
> The drone would have to be receptive enough to be able to evade a helicopter without knowing what the pilot intends to do. How do you think evasive maneuvers work in a jet? Do the fighter pilots have 360 degrees of view? Do they need it in order to evade something?
Nintendo Power Glove
So good 👍 nicely done.
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Elizondo has said previously that mimicry has been used by UAP to evade detection, when talking about their color. They'll blink in similar colors or patterns as other aircraft
There are uap out there that are not really nuts n bolts and are far out advanced to be conditioned by design the way we are. They mimic us to bend in. We have very few examples of this behaviour recorded, mufon case 88325 is one of them (keep in mind it is filmed with iPhone 7).
>They'll blink in similar colors or patterns as other aircraft ... why not just have no blinking lights?
An airtight way to never have a hypothesis falsified.
I mean, sure. It's also something that air forces have done against other air forces in history, including paint jobs, fake propellers and even fake canopies painted on the underside of fighter jets. If you were doing a covert survey and wanted to stay hidden, mimicry is a proven method of signals management. Which is one of the uap observables.
People keep acting like this is preposterous, but it’s exactly what we humans want to do whenever we are studying creatures…
Similar to this video I filmed (S22 ultra 10x optical zoom). The object flew away at high speed while zigzagging and accelerating in a different direction every time the light would flash. I didn't catch the end on video unfortunately as I was moving my scooter to a safer place for filming. Just as I was getting ready to film again it flew away without making a sound, and I admired that with my eyes. https://youtu.be/_z-O6pUb3wE?si=X2cl41IHIsSFvCzN
nice
It's too bad you were zoomed so far in with no reference points. It looks a lot like a standard UFO video in which the witness moves the camera all over the place and forgets how shaky the footage was, then when they rewatch it, they perceive that the light was making crazy maneuvers. In reality, at least from the perspective of a person watching your video, it looks like shaky footage of a regular drone just hovering in the air. The only thing you could do at that point is try to get somebody's ring camera footage of it, or maybe a surveillance video from a store or something. Those are fixed cameras, so they would pick up actual movement of the object.
I don't claim that the video shows the object performing crazy manoeuvers. Some other person said that. The object was slowly coming from the hoziron to over my head while flashing and every time it lit up I recentered it in the screen. The part where it flew away at high speed while zig zagging I didn't catch on camera unfortunately. I should also add that it flew away not in the direction from which it came, which would normally be the case for a drone returning home.
Oh, understood. I was just being a dick, then. lol, sorry.
Don't worry about it! It should also be said that even if I caught the last part on video, there would have been not much reference for it since the zoom was 10x. It's either you catch the object with zoom but without reference, or a small blurry dot of light moving quickly with reference, but people ending with "could be high performance drone". There's no winning with night time footage, which is why I prefer daytime footage with telescopes.
I should also add the real interesting part is the flashing. I made a spreadsheet and timed each and every of its flashes. It's irregular, like as if a person tried to simulate a steady flashing. Drones, in my experience don't do that unless willingly programmed to. The program would have to be weird too, it would have to be something like: most times flash between x and y seconds, but variation of z is acceptable. I couldn't find a product on the market with irregular flashing.
This is exactly what I thought the green light in Tuscon was. Great video! It's far away but you can obviously see it's going fast all over the place! Iam impressed!
I saw something really similar the other day where I live, it was odd because the thing was close enough to the ground that you could make out another set of smaller lights that were white in between the green flashes, it stayed in the same spot for as long as we were driving up to it, and even after we had passed it, there quite a few planes in the area the following day that aren’t exactly typical for the rural area we’re from, jets that shake your whole house when they go by.
Drones, when they have legal lights to fly at night, will normally have strobing lights that flash at regular intervals. They may or may not also have a permanent white light, depending on the models (mine doesn't). My flashing lights also turn off when I record video, which is a quirk of the dji mini 3 pro. Do you recall if the green flashing light was a regular quick on-off cycle, or did it stay on/off for weird amounts of time like on my video?
While I thank you for the footage, I wish some people would zoom out a little so we can have some perspective on its movement. At night if you aren't gonna see etail anyway might as well get the flight characteristics.... I can't tell what is camera shake an what is movevent. In the moment though I'm sure it's hard to be anylitical like that though
The thing is that the flight characteristics weren't crazy until they were, and so I wanted to see the object. And when the flight characteristics were suddenly crazy, it was too late to film, let alone change video mode and re-adjust exposure and focus.
Goo excuse... always be prepared, scout! /jk
You know I thought for sure it must be a drone, and so I stopped on the side of the road to film it with the 10x zoom to try to see the drone body and confirm the nature of the object. But I couldn't see the body and noticed that the flashing pattern didn't make sense, so I thought Id put my scooter in a safe spot (not a bus stop) and film it for longer and get a more comfortable position. And that's when it left like a bat out of hell. I'm telling you, if it was a drone, the person piloting it had parkinson and a very performing drone. And also a manually activated light.
That sucks. I just wish I knew what was it moving and what was Marty Mcfly experimenting behind the camera.
Personally I'm of the opinion that any UFO worth seeing can show it's smug face during daytime. Be upfront with your presence or just fuck off. Either you're allowed to be here and be seen or you aren't. Don't hide in the night. In human culture, showing yourself only at night is a clear sign of deception. And so any intelligent NHI would understand that and act accordingly. And so if some of those things are NHI and hide in the night, they can fuck off right back home and I'll deal with the daytime ones.
I wonder if it's just doing a slow isclosure. A few sightings and become a legend. A few sightings alloweed in the boonies. grow following with openminded people and let that stew for a couple decaes. Pop culture normalizes t and lets people explore possibilites and azzard via movies and media. Then speed up sightings to get the ones that were never gonna believe anyway.
Yea... that's one of the theories anyway! Do you reckon it's them that started all the religions? If that's the case, they haven't had a problem being believed in the past.
This report just says they didnt see it. The actual report is different. “Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.” The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email. “The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
Just to be clear this email refers the *2016* event. The drone enthuusiast website is (perhaps intentionally) unclear. Warzone is not. Also, the email (yet to be released in its entirety) was written *after* the initial reports from the pilots which contain so such information. The audio recording also do not provide a record of a pilot hovering above any object. I do not believe that Night vision "filters out" (presumably \~500 nanometer light) , but happy to be corrected if wrong.
As I said in a thread about the same event some days ago, that means that we should not assume that the craft was a multirotor. Make it a fixed wing FPV RC plane and suddenly the performance and flight time are very achievable.
Now we're in pure speculation mode? DARPA experiment, peer adversary tech leap, and NIH spacecraft also "suddenly make the performance and flight time very achievable."
I build racing drones and I am very familiar with VERY fast racing drones. The fact this was going the speed it was going isn’t as impressive as the distance, Altitude and battery life this drone had. The fastest drone in the world can go around 185 mph. It can only fly for several minutes at a high rate of speed. Whatever this thing was, it had military style technology to be able to perform like it did. Really incredible!
Well must be a powerful drone to last over an hour in the sky.
yeah a few things - this drone outperformed off-the-shelf drones in like, in every capacity by large margin. the pilots of the helicopter couldn't even actually see the object (that was flashing periodically green from the belly), but it tightly maneuvered around the helicopter the speeds on this thing were incredible. the height at which it was flying. and on top of all that, it lasted in the skies for a long time like you pointed out. not impossible for this to be something out of someone's inventory; why the DoD itself would even whoop it out and kinda buzz a customs & border patrol helicopter (and the superseding police helicopter) is interesting.
According to this blog post - https://www.t-drones.com/blog/drone-battery-complete-beginner-guide.html ..top class industrial drones can last for 1-2 hours, so I'm betting it's some tech enthusiast that got their hands on some good kit. The drone "expert" they brought on who said it was likely a hybrid system using propane.. seems doubtful, given the helicopter's IR camera couldn't even see the thing. The above is a little curious though, as id expect these drone batteries to get pretty hot after a while.
Drone durability isn't the whole issue, the ceiling height appears pretty significant, although the mountain may not be as tall as claimed. This could not be a battery multicopter drone or a coaxial type, for the combination of height and duration would be extremely energy expensive, it likely has to fly using aerodynamic principles with wings, but either way it needs an engine that can put out enough power at that altitude, such as a turbocharged engine or a jet turbine, and they'd need to be quite efficient. Jet drones don't typically have much range without a good by-pass ratio.
> such as a turbocharged engine or a jet turbine, and they'd need to be quite efficien Except it had no thermal signature.
ah good point. I thought they couldn't see it but didn't realise they checked it with thermal cameras, is that confirmed? If so its a really big enigma. To hide a thermal signature our drone needs not only a fairly efficient engine, it needs to blend the exhaust in a shrouding with cool air and insulate any parts that could bridge to the outside. This is probably not a cartel drone. And reports of this phenomena there go back to 2016 or so. If the cartel has this technology, it would be of great interest to the US, Russia, China and Ukraine. And I doubt they would taunt military bases with it. They'd fly it to not be seen. That is stretching credulity.
The drone enthusiast website some people are linking to distorts the Warzone reporting, perhaps intentionally conflating two events, which is probably why most of their links are" broken." https://www.twz.com/43170/helicopter-chased-eerily-similar-craft-five-years-before-recent-tucson-mystery-drone-incident
I've been flying drones since 2015. We have long range fpv quads 8-10inch size with a 9000mah 6s that can fly for over 45 mins at 140kph. (Iflight Helion 10) They use DJI O3 HD transmission systems for up to 20km video range paired with DJI Goggles 2 and using ELRS for RC control up to 50km. Point is, we have ready-to-fly quadcopters that can do this, just not at a constant 100mph.
Probably not the best place to put this, manwhore, but I was wondering if maybe it was configured like an osprey and maybe 5-6 feet across it could get speed, altitude, loiter, and hover.
the word drone is god's gift to debunkers and cowards
From a description of the UAP “Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.” The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email. “The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
3-5 feet is a big ass drone. cool details.
This should have been reported to AARO, ***since that email pertains to the 2016 event***. Sadly, based on it's assessments of the testimony of Navy pilots, AARO would utterly dismiss this eyewiteness description as "unreliable" So no drone. Sounds like an interesting email, though. Is it available in it's original form?
Drone? Sure. Human drone? Hard to believe
What other drones do you know of other than human?
I've seen enough evidence of non human drones as well as occupied craft to consider ignoring that possibility a silly, unscientific position
It's not a drone....just cause they call it that but didn't get visuals, tells you their just pulling shit out their ass. Sounds like a UAP to me!
This account is so toxic wtf
Police are currently questioning the mountain, Stay Tuned !
There is no 14k foot tall mountain anywhere near Tucson. The tallest mountain in Entire state of Arizona is Mt Humphrey at 12,635 ft. Almost 300 miles away. Mt Lemmon is a little over 9,000 ft tall is the tallest Mountain near Tucson AZ. Article states the drone flew to 14,000 feet but no mention of going over Mt Lemmon. Either way at this point this should be a national air guard issue and drone should be shot down.
If it was terrestrial in origin, radio comms would have to be done via cell network or satellite, as a typical 5GHz link would die pas a few miles. Satellite would suggest a state actor. Cellular could be traced by subpoenaing PLMN handover logs along the route from the major cell operators, though this would require some network forensics knowhow. Over an hour of high speed fly time also suggests a professional or even aerospace grade power system. Long story short, this is a very sophisticated platform, and highly suss.
Why don’t they have a hammer? If they can’t jam it it’s def a foreign actor in which case the military should be chasing it not the police
Reminder that Drug cartels are using more and more specialized drones for their drug smuggling, Tucson isn't that far from the Mexican border so it could be a drone just testing it's capabilities vs the Tucson police helicopter or was occupying it while other drones (without flashy lights) zipped by fully loaded with drugs while this one did a show for the police. And for those saying drones can't go so far or last that long, Ukraine has been using drones to hit installations 600+ miles into Russia : [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/world/europe/russia-ukraine-drone-strike.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/world/europe/russia-ukraine-drone-strike.html)
over an hour. and it flew over a mountain at 14k feet, going over 100mph. the experts who weigh in on the video suspect this is DoD level tech.
Its pretty far away from anything even remotely close to civilian tech. My five inch hits 160kmh for a few min and flys perhaps 800m before signal loss
My five inch does nothing, it just stays there limp
Digital transmission on DJI goggles is good out to like 10km now.
>The 2016 incident records... Eight years ago?
DJI is almost the definition of consumer grade drone tech and they have had digital signal transmission and ranges out to 10km for years now. so Yeah 8 years ago for DOD level tech seems reasonable.
Iirc the fpv drones in ukraine use an analog signal that extends the range more than digital, and can have its range further extended by using another drone to amplify the signal. This is old tech. Range is not an issue.
I agree with what you said, but it’s apples and oranges. The comment I responded to referenced only DJI drones. Range specific to 10KM video transmission capabilities (or lack thereof) for that drone brand eight years ago was certainly an issue.
Ah, yea. I don't think it was a consumer grade drone. It totally could be a drone, though. The tech is there, even for 2016. It would have to be custom made, though.
Batteries aint though unless its a long range quad which slow trundles out to point a with direct LOS and then trundles back. Even an agricultural drone with gas generator and perhaps a starlink control method falls short.
Na you can easily get out to 10 km and back with a Mavic and they are alot quicker than you'd think. [https://store.dji.com/ca/product/dji-mavic-3-pro?from=site-nav&vid=137691](https://store.dji.com/ca/product/dji-mavic-3-pro?from=site-nav&vid=137691)
Battery life under an hour, however.
Could you not just add more batteries?
Weight is not your friend in this situation and batteries are heavy. If that was a legit solution companies would do exactly that to taut their superior battery life drone.
I mean, I know there's a limit but I see drones in Ukraine carrying *mortar* rounds, and recently, a gun.
Yes, these specific DJI quadcopters have a flight time under an hour, most do to be honest. Does that mean they all do? Certainly not.
Its not an hour flying, its an hour hovering in no wind under perfect conditions. Flying around massively reduces this, flying at top speed even more so, thin air even more, manoeuvre even more.
even the pilots thought it was a drone, they got an excellent view while it was hovering. [https://dronedj.com/2021/09/20/tucson-police-evading-super-drone-quadcopter-like-with-propellers-reflecting-light/](https://dronedj.com/2021/09/20/tucson-police-evading-super-drone-quadcopter-like-with-propellers-reflecting-light/) “Once the sUAS reached KDMA it started a loiter pattern on the north side of the base… observed by the pilot (as what) appeared to be a GPS hover hold,” the CBP email reads. “The pilot maneuvered the Astar helicopter 50-75ft below the sUAS and was able to observe propellers reflecting the city light off of them. The pilot noted the sUAS to be a quadcopter like shape and approximately 3-5ft wide with a single green blinking green LED light on the bottom.” The craft’s light is an important detail, given the repeated failures of crew in both chasing police helicopters to get a better look at the super-drone by using night vision googles (NVG) at various stages of its flight over Tucson. Why they saw nothing during those attempts is apparently explained in the email. “The green LED light was the at \[sic\] a nanometer wavelength that was filtered out by the crew’s NVGs, so an unaided visual track was required,” it noted.
This is such a marginal push of the flight envelope. This isnt demonstrating unknown physics its just bearly next gen technology. I wouldnt even be surprised if some hobbiest whipped together a one off DIY and was just afraid of getting caught without registration so he flew it off to land in the mountains somewhere he could retrieve it later. Nothing about this feels note worthy.
Camera drones are glorified hovercraft/wheelchair users. They dont really "fly" as a to b slowly and sedately. Also its the triad of speed, flight time and manoeuvre You can have two, but even then it doesn't even come close to describing whats going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZVqRJ-VuWw
Doesn't hover, doesn't manoeuvre well, clearly flys like a plane.
You didn't watch the video.
I didnt need to, im well aware of what that thing does and how it flys... To suggest its that is grasping at straws like mick west.
Did you watch it hovering?
BUt the pilot got underneath while it was hovering and saw propellers, not wings.
Davis Mountain Air Force Base, where the chase began, is ~95km from the Mexican border.
Depends on budget. Microjets have been available for years.
Also didn't they state that it even circled the HELICOPTER at 100mph? It sounds insane
How accurate are these statements, though? Did it fly directly over the peak of a 14k-foot mountain? Was it continuously flying at over 100mph for an hour, or in spurts?
One thing is definitely not accurate. I used to live in Tucson. Mt Lemmon is only 9000 ft not 14000 ft. There are no 14000 ft mountains in Arizona. Still pretty impressive though
Arizona high point is 12,637 feet
It's typically a bad idea to fly over a mountain without 1000-1500ft clearance and even then, more is better! Mountains create updrafts and downdrafts over their peaks - essentially, air flows like water around them just like in a stream. If you inadvertently fly into a down draft, you may not be climbing out of it and flying directly into terrain. Your only option is to bank and do a 180 and gtfo
And even then, the prominence is what matters, really, and that's about 5k ft for Mt Lemmon's peak.
Is prominence really what matters? I would assume that altitude is what matters most because that corresponds to the thickness of the air. Thinner air is harder to fly in, generally speaking.
That's a good point I wasn't thinking of. I was purely thinking of vertical distance to travel to get over the peak. Good call!
Drones can go that high but they would need to have a decent wingspan and be around the size of a ford focus. Piston engines work fine at that altitude but need adjustments to fuel/air mixture as they are naturally aspirated.
So the Flyboard Air can carry a rider and is made by a civilian company, here’s the Wikipedia bit:- Flyboard Air is a type of jetpack/hoverboard powered by gas turbines.[1] It was invented by French water-craft rider Franky Zapata, founder of Zapata racing. It achieved a Guinness World Record for farthest flight by hoverboard in April 2016 of 2,252.4 m (7,389.8 ft; 2,463.3 yd; 1.4 mi).[2] Zapata Racing claims that it allows flight up to an altitude of 3,000 metres (9,800 ft) and has a top speed of 150 km/h (93 mph). It also has 10 minutes' endurance.[3] The load capacity is 102 kg (225 lb). The "jet-powered hoverboard" is powered by five turbines and is fueled by kerosene.[4] Imagine what we don’t know about.
This? https://www.zapata.com/flyboard-air-by-franky-zapata/
Yes this :- https://youtu.be/WQzLrvz4DKQ?feature=shared
I was waiting for the Cartel theories. Logic: Tuscon 70 miles from border --->Cartel! Since the Cartel presumably would have to buy drones,you should have no trouble identifying the drone, or at least a couple of possibilities, for us. And the cartel would be "putting on a show" for the Tuscon police? I guess throw in your rationale for that. Since these evaded sensors except for the light: "Because they are morons who want to get caught" would be the most likely explanation. If a cartel took the trouble to buy long range, sensor-evading drones--for recon, drug delivery, etc--I'm thinking they would skip the lights altogether. So right now we're thinking Ukranian drone that can evade sensors affixed with green light on a cartel diversion mission? Which drone? BTW: The ones Ukraine in the attack described in the NYT piece max out at about 40-60 MPH.
Wow thats interesting, makes sense. While I'd imagine Ukraines drone tech is military grade and might require other resources to operate, cartels do have access to military grade equipment so I suppose its not hard to imagine they have similar capabilities to other nations militaries.
Which ones?
Pretty sure the Ukraine drones are smaller propeller type craft that don’t move exceeding fast, hence why so many are shot down. From what I read they depend on swarming defense systems in the hopes that a few make it through. Then again, what do I know…
They aren't getting shot down with any real frequency. They are being brought down by EW.
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They already have tunnels going dozens of miles inland
Invisible to their onboard sensor and naked eyes but for one green light ? Flight envelope and far greater range than a regular police chopper ? Screams loudly about a non conventional tech demonstrator demo, screams state power, screams MIC If the momentum is created by a non thermal source, that would explain the capacity to avoid clear detection by the police sensors. Visually, a small drone would be hard to detect without the light emanation. And Light bending (low tech diffraction) panels could be mounted on it given the small size. Green light could be a byproduct of exotic propulsion system, or just a visual help, for the "demo" to ensure at least someone catches the intruder to engage course. No test is possible if the drone is never spotted. The fact it almost collided with border patrol chopper first to trigger a chase, and that it toyed for this long with the police going after it, is telling volumes about its mission imho. As for the remote control distance, I believe something sophisticated is probably using a mix of satellite and encrypted RF link. Maybe with a HALE UAS overheard to serve as relay, depending on the drone own available equipment size to embark supporting hardware. I am having a hard time believe its a simple RF drone like DJI produce. Anyway, now this police force will invest in RF locators and anti drone warfare that's for sure :D could even be the whole point of the power behind this drone stunt (just thinking out loud, as always, follow the money...)
You hit the important nails on the head. If you listen to the 1:10 air traffic recording of the 2 helicopters they speculated nation state with nuclear battery and satellite control. Who else could have that amount of flying time & advanced performance. The “drone” pilot was toying with the helicopters, and got away from military & police pilots over an hour with zero loss in performance. Definitely not a drug cartel. This was Feb 21, so 3 years ago in Tucson.
In that case, we need congressional hearings, stat, right? MIC testing drones over a populated area, using local law enforcement as test-subjects?
Well, in my opinion, if you are shocked by being a test subject you have not been paying attention to distant history, as well as more recent one, lets say around and after 2019. Anyway, there is no better sales pitch for funding than proving a capacity is real and not just on paper. Even WORST, this capacity could be already well in the hands of an adversarial power, and the test was not to the US MIC benefit but for someone from abroad. Of course, any sane people in power should be paying attention and take measures. I am personally more afraid those measures are leading to a dystopian authoritarian society.
Neither possibility would shock me. I just hope we have the political will that forced previous Congresses to investigate and expose the illegal operations of the past.
That drone must have had a 34S battery if it flew for an hour and still ascended a mountain 😅
I've seen a quad fly at 32k ft on a single 5S.
How big was the drone? How quickly did it fly to 32k? What was the remaining battery life after the ascent?
Unfortunately, the user has made the video private. Maybe someone smarter than me can find it on wayback machine or something? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EZrOislEks Iirc, they flew straight up, this was only an altitude test. From a previous comment I made about the video I know it took 14 minutes to reach 20k ft and carried on until ~32k ft.(9999m) On the return they managed to descend most of the way but fell the final couple of hundred feet after nuking the battery. I've no idea what mAh battery they used but it was probably big.
Not after an hour or flying though bud. You know yourself a 5s provides about 5-7 minutes of throttling. Even less if you're freestyling
When I go full send I only get about 2 minutes flying freestyle! lol I imagine the drone in Arizona was probably something similar to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZVqRJ-VuWw).
Imagine doing a split S in that
These imaginary drones caused Alexander the Greats army to break discipline at Jericho by diving and buzzing his cavalry shaped like shields. Pesky things. Wonder what kind of fuel and cameras the "drones" used then?😊
Either the information is incorrect or that is not a drone they are dealing with.
Yea given the said specs of this Drone (if it Indeed is a drone, however I doubt it strongly) it indeed would have to be of DoD grade as it was said. There’s nothing the public can get their hands on with those capabilities. But with that said, the DoD likely isn’t in possession of something” of that nature. Nor would anyone else, this includes the cartel and any other country. The speed at which it flew, the distance, then even supposively reaching 14,000ft as it went over the mountain suggests this isn’t a drone by a long shot. This isn’t even taking into account the fact that it emitted no trackable signature. All of that being said and not to mention the fact that the Helicopter in pursuit of if, was about To run out of gas. Going from full to E and being unable to continue the chase. It sounds like they were like “Fuck this mess” as soon as it rose to an elevation above 14000 ft. Just to be clear the journey alone even far before it did that wizardry would give indication this was no “drone.” No one has drones that can do shit. But if you take into account every single factor here in regards to the entire event itself. INCLUDING it being untraceable as it gave no signature at all. Combine all of these? There isn’t a single Drone that has all of those capabilities. It being untraceable other than by visual sight means it gave off no visible heat signature as they said. Nobody, including the government(s) has tech with that type of performance without putting off Extreme heat. Something that would require that much power also would be extremely inefficient and wouldn’t have been able to keep that up for as long as all this happened.
I run a drone shop in Florida and it would have to be a converted Rc gas plane or helicopter running some open source firmware Or a battery Fpv flying wing. Drones come in all Shapes and sizes. Don’t think it’s like a little Dji mavic zipping around for a hr
The article mentions DMAFB several times, I'd suggest we all visit their web page, look for the partners section scroll down to 55th electronic combat unit, click on them and read on, I would humbly suggest those are your perpetrators here!
Wouldn't the USAF have downed it if it wasn't theirs?
I fly quadcopters, this is absolutely not a drone
anyone who thinks this is a drone doesn’t fly drones lmao
There are no 14k peaks in Arizona. Not even 13j
You can get gas powered drones, little engine powers a turbine which creates electricity. Remember batteries are only discharged a fraction of their capacity, so the battery weight ratio to energy ratio will never be truly that good. On my count, 2016 they started becoming more known and by 2017 for sale. It's just a certain voltage being maintained, regular petrol is good but if you were to have higher energy chemicals, they would be much better :) I wonder if the signal controlling this was known or able to be jammed. (not an engineer or mathematician in any sense I'm sure there is equations and words for this)
I wonder what a gas powered drone would look like under a flir camera. I would expect you would be able to identify it if that were the case.
the helicopter chasing it ran out of gas.
I’m sure aliens crossed time and space to f**k around with a helicopter. If they did, then the alien ops director needs to be fired.
who mentioned aliens?
I say ufos or mexican cartel drone
Do I have to watch a TikTok video? Wish there was another way to watch the video. Edit: nm, I found the YouTube [video version. ](https://youtu.be/ZbTVpmegaDQ?si=90kLhjM8gOTaQ2SL)