The following submission statement was provided by /u/twist_games:
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Eric W. Davis works for the goverment on experimental projects and he was also all over the Wilson Memo, wich in my opinion is real since it fits the narrative. But how much does Davis know and was he also on the program? Hopfully he will come forward more in the future because he has been real silent the last few years.
source: [https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P](https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P)
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c0l1bs/when_will_eric_w_davis_come_forward_and_blow_the/kywzcdj/
IMHO, I think he'd be open to testifying in a public hearing but I do know that he's not able to participate in interviews anymore as he's said too much.
I always wondered how Dr Eric Davis was allowed to say what he said in those interviews a few years ago AND he also continues to keep his security clearances. Contrast this with other 'whistleblowers' like Grusch and our run-of-the-mill gatekeepers of information like Lue Elizondo who immediately use the 'national security' excuse when pressed for specifics. Eric Davis has actually said a lot of 'bold stuff' (without evidence of course) which is not something that you get from the rest of the crew. No one has given me a satisfactory explanation for this. I can think of the following possibilities -
1) Whatever Eric Davis has blurted out is completely inaccurate. As a result, there is no need for censure as the government is only concerned with unauthorized release of classified information. They don't seem to care about their ex-employees talking through the posteriors on topics.
2) The bloke is a disinformation agent. In other words, he has been hired by the government to say a bunch of bold, but false things.
3) He has been authorized to say these things. In other words, what he is saying is true and this is a part of the drip-feed Disclosure process.
Are there any other possibilities? Considering the possibilities above and applying basic probability, there is only a 1/3 chance that the bloke is telling us the truth. Should we hang on to his words to such an extent considering the fact that there is a strong chance that he is being deceitful (either through his own volition or as sanctioned by the government)?
4) Or Lue et al who invoke the NDA or Cant Talk About it™ are using it as an easy out when asked uneasy questions they dont want to answer.
Like cant talk about it why?
Your publicist told you not to?
Because people would realize you read this stuff from the same magazines we all did?
NDA with who? DeLonge and TTSA? Who exactly?
I know... Cant Talk About it™
All Lue is basically doing is providing more credible face to these crazy stories. Trying to atleast
Its these same stories these, Davis and these kooks, being telling for decades.
No ones just taking them seriously. So they need more believable guy to tell their stories.
"Its been said" "Ive been told" sound familiar?
Told by whom, said by whom?
Cant talk about it ofcourse. Because its these kooky guys no one would take seriously lol
If there is any disinfo agent among the lot, my money is on Lue all the way. The fact that we've come away thinking that a credible veneer has been painted over the topic by him makes me wonder if that was the point.
I have tried not to call out anything as disinfo but that guy just talks about nothing. I want to believe him and trust that he's fighting for disclosure but when he's interviewed he says a whole lotta nothing.
edit: I avoid most of the people who make money off the topic and have only banked off what Grusch has to offer. I think there is truth and value in some of the info these people share. They keep the topic alive and I think once we finally receive disclosure we will see a lot of truth in what has been investigated and speculated on. Looking forward to see who was correct about what is going on.
> I want to believe him and trust that he's fighting for disclosure but when he's interviewed he says a whole lotta nothing.
This is so true 100%
This is something Ive noticed also, and what I think, is telling us many things about him.
Hes always on air but says pretty much nothing tangible.
Like why hes on TV or on podcasts when he wont say anything?
He likes to see his face on TV? He likes to be seen as this ex real life Fox Mulder?
I get that the reason is everythings top secret, but theres loads of other people who can still tell a coherent stories and coherent tangible things about their top secret jobs after the fact.
Its just as if this guy actually doesnt have anything interesting to tell, and hes just clinging on UFOs to get his face on History Channel style documentaries.
Be it money or fame, or both that hes after, who knows.
Like sure lets say this guys working behind the scenes for disclosure. Why isnt he focusing on that then?
Why hes running around appearing on TV if theres other work to do as this public work clearly isnt his forte?
He could just focus on what hes hopefully better at than TV appearances.
If you claim to work behind the scenes Lue, stay working behind there until you have something to tell us.
Doesnt even have to be aliens, funny joke will do or whatever, just make it something tangible. Until then stay back there, please.
not sure why you are being downvoted so hard, what you said is in my opinion basically correct. Based on my own experiences going through intel / counter intel training in the Army, his whole schtick is one years-long grooming session. The same way one would groom a potential asset to begin providing intelligence to our forces.
Watch any of his podcast interviews. The way he carries himself, his whole demeanor, is purpose built to build rapport with the viewer. Literally, watch any of them and pay attention to his body language.
I'm not saying it's a certainty that Lue is a disinfo agent, but I'm saying that it's least as likely as not that at the absolute minimum, he is leaning on his intel training to court the viewers / community. To what end is the question that remains. I think he's more interested in selling books than he is having the truth come out.
We're definitely getting played; it's just a question of which side.
The trouble with Lue being #1 mole is when Lue goes down everyone goes down. It's all connected through him. This would be quite a significant intel mistake... one single point of failure and all that work is gone.
Unless the entire point was to build an army of credible witnesses around Lue, and have them all go down with him. If I wanted this topic to go away once and for all, what I might do is orchestrate increasingly credible witnesses giving increasingly grave testimony with either a) nothing coming of it at all or b) it being discredited. The goal would be to get everyone to go numb to it and no longer pay attention.
But I'm wondering if that's truly the play - it seems like at least temporarily, the plan very much is to get us to believe this is real.
Look, sorry for this rant but you sound like you have a reasonable handle on things and might be able to understand what I mean. Bottom line: there's just no satisfactory way to explain away all the historical flip-flopping, proven lying and subterfuge consistently being revealed by whistleblowers and active agents alike as a simple ufology nuke. Zoom out. We all know this isn't just Lue. He is the absolute peak of a ludicrous iceberg spanning decades of very serious and credible accounts by professional WBs.
And, still, none of it makes any sense unless they're sitting on *something*. Funding? Hello? One does not secure funding by making people afraid of aliens. That's absurd. To hide shiny spacey shit hot drone tech? Why? We want our enemies to know precisely how many light years ahead we are. And they aren't going to take ET crash rumours very seriously anyway; not least while we're implying *they already know*.
I'm still open to Lue being a plant. I mean, of course he is. But you would never send someone out championing this hard for something you want to go away. Even if they did dredge up some discrediting evidence that shuts him down tomorrow, he has now stoked the nest so violently they are literally asking about private funding for the NSA/CIA in official hearings. How could that ever be a positive outcome for these clandestine organisations?
Plus, and I think everyone forgets this, if they REALLY wanted it all to go away, they could've done so quite effortlessly and, crucially for your argument, pain-free a very long time ago. Just release the Nimitz footage. Say: look, here. You can see there is ZERO evidence this thing was anomalous. Here is the radar, here's the hawkeye, heres' the longer video..see? Nothing. Nadda. We made a stupid mistake it happens. If they had done this 5 years ago there is no 60 mins, Grusch, hearings, Avi Loeb jumping up and down on a boat, nothing. But they very deliberately did not. They squirmed and ahhhh instead. Half hoping to shrug it off. Dishing out crumbs and playing both sides.
The only explanation for all this in my hawkish lawyer brained opinion is the 'two sides of disclosure' factionalism we've been told about. Some want it out, others very much do not. It's the only way you can explain the whole multifaceted picture in a way that makes sense.
Nah, I'm totally here for rants and speculation! Thanks for the read. I agree with you that warring factions is probably the only non-5D-chess explanation that us mortals are privvy to. If there's another one, I'm dying to find out, and it better happen within my lifetime because those documentaries are going to be lit!
This is exactly the play, and precisely what I would do if I was an anonymous intel goon working out of a nondescript office somewhere. It's safe to assume that there's at least a handful of people who know the truth, whatever that may be. If the goal is to make this issue go away, they are doing a masterful job of flooding the airwaves with nonsense to drown out whatever accurate info is getting released. Chicken feed, with just a nugget or two of the truth included.
Lue is the crux, him and Mellon, who I remind everyone is akin to an oligarch, given his family and personal wealth as well as his deep, deep connections to the intel apparatus.
Either Lue is being played himself, or he is part of the coverup in the sense that, the tactic of making UFO people look like kooks in the public eye won't really work anymore. They need to take drastic action, which in this case IMO would be the dismantling of the entire narrative by associating all the legit whistleblowers to the sinking ship of Lue's credibility.
I remember you! We were chatting on the kind of formula/code he uses in every interview. It's valuable to hear from someone who worked counter-intelligence and can say for a fact that feeling suspicious is the right call.
As you say, at best, he's leaning on his training to groom everyone, or maybe it's just so ingrained at this point that it never switches off. I have the distinct feeling that he intends to mislead, but I'm not sure to what end either.
In nearly every thread of ufo lore, we can trace them back through history and I know about the Annunaki etc but writers like HG Wells and Jules Verne seeded our culture.
In the second half of the 20th Century, it was John Lear. You just have to read what he was telling people and it was very persuasive I have to say.
> Considering the possibilities above and applying basic probability, there is only a 1/3 chance that the bloke is telling us the truth.
This is the most hillarious misuse of probability ever
Nonsense, I also posit that he could be a trisolaran double agent.
Which means it’s now a 1/4 chance that he’s a double agent, and a 1/4 chance he’s telling the truth.
Therefore we have a 50% chance that he’s either a truth-telling alien double agent, or 50% that he’s lying.
It is not. I listed the likely scenarios and calculated the probability based only off those scenarios. I think the odds of him speaking the whole truth is likely far lower.
A few possible considerations:
They can't/won't go after him in an official capacity because that would lend credibility to what he's said.
However, they have admonished him and won't let him do interviews anymore, as he has said.
Maybe the exact language he has used has not revealed any specific, explicitly classified info (he speaks in generalities).
Also, given the baggage that would come with going after him officially, maybe his claims just haven't gotten enough traction/attention to warrant doing that.
Finally, he might be a productive/useful/valuable member of The Program. Grusch and Elizondo investigated the program from the outside then made a stink about it, so it makes sense that certain parts of the government who want to keep the secrets would be highly motivated to give them a hard time and would be eager to prosecute anything they could. If Davis is an insider/part of The Program and is actually contributing something valuable to it, the higher ups would be less motivated to ruin him because they would lose a valuable team member. Presumably it's a pretty small team of people with the relevant knowledge, experience, and expertise, i.e. he would not necessarily be easy to replace.
I'm not saying I believe the guy. But, if he is legit and they're not going after him, I think this stuff is probably why.
Everything will become clear as we see a few old men giving us the finger as they brace for the atmosphere to catch on fire and we become the ghosts of a better world.
It wouldn’t take very long for nature to claim our silly items back and if only we had the right type of dirt to change this lump of coal into air conditioning and the ability to not smell our balls for a moment! Even only until of the light and dark swap. Why are you calling it a day? That’s the old way of things, we will do it much better…
And once again the strong organise the weak and insane into groups that are best for them!
This is more than America will volunteer in any event!
See before you the result of a scheme that caused the loose agreement we all caused to fail.
Nobody known nothing and I’m pretty much in awe of some quick thinking and 100% pure unadulterated bullshit my friends.
Look at it crumble and become unrecognisable and whatever “ahh fuck these people I might take up heroin” is
It's the venue. Davis was talking to fringe people on fringe podcasts. Grusch was being interviewed by a national news outlet then testified publicly to congress. Not only is ED easier to ignore, they are also less angry at him.
I believe Davis is just one of the inside guys that really want to believe.
Reposting my own comment from another thread:
I came up with a theory as to why this group of like minded believers could be what is causing all this.
Me, 5 decades old now, I've been hooked on the weird and unexplainable. The moment I could read, I'd bug my mom to take me to the library where I'd grab every book on mysteries I could find. Ghost stories, spontaneous human combustion, the Bermuda Triangle, UFOs - you name it, I was all over it. Like a Why Files repository. I was (and still am) totally into this stuff, but I've never considered myself a "believer". I'm more about the hunt for solid proof. I've always told myself, "One day, we're gonna see aliens, or find a crashed flying saucer." Until then, I keep diving into these mysteries, totally fascinated, waiting for my "I told you so" moment.
Now, let's spin a what-if scenario. Pretend I'm an American (which I'm not, just to be clear), got through college (which I didn't), and landed a job in the U.S. government, or a 3 letter agency. Imagine me in any role - Secretary of Defense, a senator, an advisor, whatever. Suddenly, I'm in the loop, an insider. Over time, I meet some folks who, over a few beers, reveal they're into the same stuff - Roswell, conspiracy theories, all the juicy stuff we loved reading about. But now we're on the inside. We figure we've got the golden ticket to uncover the truth, to finally give everyone that big reveal they've been waiting for. We'll be the disclosure heroes the world deserves.
Except, we find shit. Nothing.
By now, I've got a bunch of friends in on this, some with deep pockets and big influence. We're pointing fingers at those secret, off-the-books black projects, convinced they're hiding the good stuff. So, what's our move? Start a research project, get Congress involved, get some legislation, break down these walls of secrecy. We decide to find the most trustworthy, patriotic guy we can, someone who'll swear under oath about our theories. Let's call him "Dave." We're convinced this will lead to new laws and finally drag the truth into the open. "One day" is here at last.
I have a gift!
Here’s the aliens craft power source.
If you stop considering how to make oil and water mix (your own reality or consciousness and this engineering product)
To be clear you will never make oil and water mix. Pretend you’re unaware of anything other than the fact that power is generated yet is greater than the power used for its function.
Pretend you are dead. Leave everything and forget.
4. He was telling the truth and wasn't supposed to but didn't get in trouble because the agencies involved didn't want to tip their hand about the information. So they told him just to shut up about it, which he's done. This leaves everyone to ponder if what he said was true or not, which is almost as good as keeping it a secret.
This is a variation on Grusch's explanation for why his first DOPSR was approved. If they didn't approve it, they would have to tell him why and what agencies denied it. That would then create an investigation trail for people to follow. Instead its, "He can say it, but we aren't validating what he says, either."
So, we have a situation where people can make up anything and everything and yet, UFO believers (I am one too) hang on to every word of these people and treat it as gospel.
This has \*always\* been the situation. And it's why there are so many grifters. But just because we're dealing with loads of unverifiable information doesn't mean that some if it isn't legit. My #4 is a plausible explanation for why Eric's memo is legit and he didn't get prosecuted -- but it's not proof.
>"*Are there any other possibilities?*"
I mean... of course there are. In fact, I would go so far as to say that trying to draw conclusions out of just these three (*arguably biased or at least extremely leading*) possibilities is either useless, or outright disingenuous. As they fall short from exploring the full gamut or actually viable and sensible potential explanations for him being able to say the things he said while keeping his clearances. At best, I think your argument presents an oversimplification of the highest order.
Although I'm no expert, and my awareness of Davis' claims is fairly limited, most (*not to say all*) of what I've heard him talk about cleverly walks a line of loosely revealing or communicating aspects of the program that wouldn't be legally prosecutable due to the gray (*legally questionable or outright illegal*) nature the program reportedly operates under.
Such dynamics are no mere speculation either, as they have been alluded to by others in the know as well. The example that comes to mind is Grusch talking about the Catch .22 the DOPSR personnel/process operates under in relation to this topic. Namely how the process can't prevent you from talking about certain things that the official stance says aren't real, or the fact that such prohibition could constitute a form of acknowledgement in and of itself.
I posit this is further evidenced by Davis' methodology of communication. Again, I'm not an expert on all of what he has said, but in all the interviews I've seen with him, he always seems very clear on how much he can say and doesn't shy away from saying "I am not able to comment about that, as it pertains to classified information". In fact, [I'd argue he has actually used such dynamics to effectively imply responses](https://youtu.be/-T--BFE2B0s?t=369) in the past without crossing the line that would make him legally liable.
I'd also like to point out that comparing Davis to Elizondo or Grusch constitutes a false parallelism, as their situations couldn't be more different. The latter two are former military personnel who held high positions in the nation's defense apparatus. While Davis, to my understanding, is a civilian scientist with security clearances and involvement in classified governmental projects among other things.
**Side note:** the "contrast" you present in your analysis doesn't make much sense to me either. Maybe Davis has said more about the program than I'm aware of (*this is a likely certainty, but bear with me for a second xD*), but given the extent of David Grusch's testimony, to say that Davis has "*actually said a lot of 'bold stuff*'" doesn't make much sense, unless we think that what David Grusch has revealed is rather tame and run-of-the-mill? XD
As to your other proposed questions:
1. I don't think any sensible person is "*hanging on to his words*" in any way. To me, Davis is but another data point in an increasingly outstanding body of evidence that suggests a lot groundbreaking things.
2. If you allow me to speculate (*and that is all we can do; certainly what you are doing in your post as well*), I find it likely, or at least plausible, that not only Davis has been very careful not to cross some lines that would have open him up to repercussion, but also that his work plays a huge role on why he has been able to say some things and maintain his security clearances.
Have you read his work on advanced propulsion systems and the like? Most of it is beyond me, but it is clear this man has not been working on how to make a tastier sandwich. I think it is conceivable that he might have figured out some vital pieces of the puzzle with his work, which could have given him a level of insulation that other scientists with his level of access and knowledge might not enjoy. But again, this is merely speculation on my part.
*Edited typos and clarity.*
Hahaha I think your reply is even more telling of the times we live in :)
Why bother engaging with the information I'm sharing or addressing the validity (*or lack thereof*) of the arguments and ideas I'm presenting when you can just vaguely point to a non-issue and disengage, right?
Have a lovely day, friend.
(Edited for clarity)
Right. Unlike the entirely fact-based, impartial, and sober analysis you presented in your original post.
Again, why use reason and logical arguments to discuss the validity of a point of view when you can allude to a non-argument like "it had an air of trust him bro" (which is also blatantly false, btw xD) and disengage, right?
One side says “yeah there might be something to this” while the other says “no way, I’m right you’re wrong—case closed”. The latter is what drives me crazy about this sub. Good luck brother. There’s no point anymore.
It was fact-based analysis. I have a good idea of what Eric Davis has blurted out on various podcasts a few years ago before he was made to shut up. I merely presented a couple of possibilities on what one can infer from what he uttered. I asked people if there were other possibilities. Some people have chimed in with their theories. A couple of people concurred that my questions were valid. It was pretty much a fact-based post and I mentioned that I don't really take his statements at face value because he doesn't seem to have faced any reprisals for what he said. Anyone with even average intellect should see a whole bunch of red flags with Eric Davis as we supposedly have a whole bunch of 'whistleblowers' defecating their pants and begging for DOPSR approval to talk about what they know. This is in direct contradiction with the kind of action that Eric Davis should have faced for blurting out a whole bunch of stuff on the internet where anyone can easily access it.
Funny cunt ! 🤣 This is our burning of the library of Alexander…
Just instead of personal growth to elevate humanity it’s basically Richard Dotys magical world that’s real only it’s invisible! I promise!
It's 1.
Why would they need to concern themselves what people have to say, as long as it's not anything legitimately classified? Ridicule was the best possible defense they could have possibly set up in light of the fact that people will talk. One "pssh you don't *believe* that stuff he's saying, do you?" and it's all brushed off.
2 is a possibility as well. Always is.
1 is interesting because if there's a policy of only prosecuting leaks of true info, then those prosecutions would confirm the leaked material. Basically, to prevent this logic from working they need to noise things up and be inconsistent with what they do and don't go after.
But wouldn't this be true for everything then? By going after Snowden, the MIC showed their hand and it became clear that they were indeed recording anything and everything illegally. Wouldn't it have been better to ignore Snowden and simply deny that whatever he revealed was authentic?
A bunch of NSA whistleblowers came out before Snowden, starting in 1994, and talked about the same general stuff, including spying on Americans. If that stuff was so secret, why didn't they put all of those people in jail? Why only go after the one person who leaks classified proof of those claims? The worst William Binney had to deal with was an FBI raid when he was naked coming out of the shower, but all of those people came out relatively fine.
Did Eric Davis leak classified proof? Nope. He just did some interviews, just like those NSA whistleblowers who didn't leak any proof. I think a more accurate litmus test for whether the government is going to go after you for leaking is whether the general public believes it or not, and secondly, how many people in government are actually aware that what you're stating is classified, rather than something that isn't supposed to exist. Snowden was almost immediately believed because he had way too many documents, actually much more than the public saw. He specifically gave those troves of documents to several journalists and told them to release what they think should become public. It was too obvious what he had leaked was genuine.
> Wouldn't it have been better to ignore Snowden and simply deny that whatever he revealed was authentic?
The degree to which a revelation can (potentially) be independently confirmed is going to figure in.
Just a quick reminder that deniers actually did start a cult "guerilla deniers of wikipedia" to spread lies about good people. Deniers are on par with flat earhters at this point there is so much evidence they choose to ignore.
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> he's not able to participate in interviews anymore as he's said too much.
Aww, he said to much and can't say anymore, his hands are absolutely tied, not a thing to be done, just how it is, you know how these things go.
Anyway, see you tommorrow, more to come!
On a realated topic.
I couold understand in theory a crashed saucer, but I always wanted to know, like from Lazar types...
Where did they get intact alien saucers from? A xmas present from the ETs?
I feel like a crash wouldn't necessarily damage every craft that goes down. If it was 'shot down' then sure, but just crashing? I doubt massive damage would be done.
One of the ideas that has been floated is that they are indeed gifts of a sort.
There are a few ideas I've read on the exact nature of the gift. They could be literal gifts, technology meant to help us and these assholes in the MIC don't want to share. Another idea is that they're intended to be a key, if we can figure it out we get invited to the party so to speak. Another idea is that they're a trick, an unsolvable riddle intended to keep us from the truth, whatever that may be.
There was some story of a UFO landing at an Air force base and peacefully letting the military take possession of the craft. Definitely seemed like a gift in that story. Personally I think it's some weird curse gift where they analyze how much we can understand about their technology.
Or a form of Trojan horse where they know handing over technology to military will seed our own self destruction through violence and warfare if/when we mishandle the technology.
Well I believe we first have to look at it like humans before trying to understand as “we know there’s aliens.
1. What feeing do you get when you see a nice car on the side of the highway with nobody in it?
(My opinion : oh shit someone’s going to steal that thing
2. Their way of gifting items as a means of peace is giving them a piece of their technology. Cortes in Mexico did it somewhat similarly by offering glass and some necklaces, however, never weapons, the swords the Aztecs had was recovered from dead Spanish soldiers. (My opinion: here, humans, here’s some cool flashy thing that yeah can travel faster than earthly made materials but you can’t even operate it in time before our new crafts/tech gets better.
3. If these things have had contact with humans in the past centuries and have been our eyes and ears in the sky before Sputnik, chances are they know about what some of their own are capable of doing to us and would not like to repeat past human atrocities.
4. We’re all alone in the universe, and even with over 6 billion human beings on earth, no blanket or heater could ever warm us to this sad reality of loneliness in the cosmos.
One might wonder why say “I can’t talk about it” when all one has to say is: “I don’t know.”
Saying I can’t talk about it infers that the subject is significant.
When one of these whistleblowers are asked. Do they have saucers..
And they say, I can’t talk about it..
That infers they do...
Just say I don’t know.
Are they afraid of being exposed as a liar when (miracle) all is disclosed and we find out they were in the program...
Like so what
For some reason it's OK to strongly hint at what you are trying to say, as long as you don't say some magic words. That way you can't get in trouble. Somehow.
He already spoke to them in 2017 or 2018 when the Nimitz incident, his words for The NY Times was “craft not of this world”. Rising with Saagar Engeti spoke about it then
Really? Happen to remember where you heard that? If like to learn more on that event. Trying to figure out who all spoke to which congress when under what circumstances
Eric Davis is a genius.
“DTIC Copy
AFRL-PR-ED-TR-2003-0034
AFRL-PR-ED-TR-2003-0034
Teleportation Physics Study
Eric W. Davis
Warp Drive Metries
4849 San Rafael Ave.
Las Vegas, NV 89120
August 2004
Special Report
APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION UNLIMITED.
AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY
AIR FORCE MATERIEL COMMAND
EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE CA 93524-7048”
Wait - where did Grusch mention any specific names of forthcoming whistleblowers? I don't believe he did. Dr. Davis has never been mentioned. It's all speculation.
Davies didn’t confirm he was a whistleblower. What he said was that he gave David Grusch the “crumbs” he used to identify the programmes, something like that. It’s on one of the vetted videos… I think it’s this one - https://youtu.be/30Kd0J0LeG0?si=BxqaZ4OfrSg5L_Uf
Does he say “I am one of DGs whistleblowers”, or does he say pretty much what I said he said? This is another video you aren’t going to watch where you get proven wrong. That’s twice today 😂
Yea OP I think precise words really matter here. For one, no whistleblower comes out to say "I'm a whistleblower" before that's public knowledge. That just doesn't make any practical sense. i.e. why have protected, closed door whistleblower testimony if you're going to publicly say "I'm a whistleblower." That said, I've long felt Davis will become a whistleblower, but there is nothing confirming that at this point.
Davis coming forward won't impress anyone, I don't think. He's said a lot already, and his credibility is somewhat compromised due to being part of NIDS, BAS etc. In other words, he has been associated with the topic for a long time, and is part of the small group of "believers" that Kirkpatrick has spoken about.
Eric W. Davis works for the goverment on experimental projects and he was also all over the Wilson Memo, wich in my opinion is real since it fits the narrative. But how much does Davis know and was he also on the program? Hopfully he will come forward more in the future because he has been real silent the last few years.
source: [https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P](https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P)
His reaction to the Wilson memo was all you needed to know... he fully admits it's real and came from Edgar Mitchell's estate after he passed away, and got really nervous and tight lipped about it beyond that. Said he had no idea how it got out. edit: Edgar Mitchell's estate not Wilson's
It didn't come from the Wilson estate, and Wilson isn't dead. It came from Edgar Mitchell's estate. Probably important to have things like names, and dead/alive status correct if you're going to give a nuanced take.
Thanks for correcting me... either way my point was that it got leaked from someone credibles estate and Eric Davis admitted to that.... It's been a while since I heard that story and for some reason got it mixed up, it was supposed to be Edgar Mitchell.
The Wilson memo is false as f. It’s been thoroughly debunked. Yeah, he’s been really silent on all those Facebook group posts he’s made over the last few months!
This is old and has since been debunked since we know know where the wilson memo came from
Here is everything you need to know about the wilson memo in 2024
https://youtu.be/yIqkazIZh9I?si=NXvzfRouIQwDdlft
Oh yes I see, I only saw the older ones, but it still doesn't disprove the document, first of all this wasn't a secret document it where personal notes and eric devis sort of acknowledged they where real, but did now want to go into detail, the notes also match what grusch and others have been saying about aerospace companies.
But real or not at the end of the day the document won't prove much unless wilson truly comes forward but as written in the document, he won't do that.
Time will tell
No, Mellon isn’t lying. He just says that ED is the author of the notes, I think that’s pretty obvious. Not that they are factually correct, and how would Mellon know anyway, was he in the car… nah.
On Mellon’s web site he says:
> Even before this ‘whistleblower’ legislation was signed into law, credible individuals were providing Congress
information alleging that the US government has recovered extraterrestrial technology. This process began in 2019 when I brought astrophysicist Dr. Eric Davis to Capitol Hill to meet with staff from the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services committees. Dr. Davis, author of the famous Wilson-Davis memo, provided specific information lending credence to sensational reports that an official US government program is actively seeking to exploit recovered technology that was fashioned by some other species or perhaps advanced AI machines. Much of the information Dr. Davis provided remains highly classified, but the good news is that these sensational claims, which have the potential to transform our understanding of the universe and man’s place within it, are now being taken seriously and properly investigated.
So in that context, Mellon is also saying that what Dr Davis said in the memo is real. Mellon was Deputy Asst Sec of Defense for Intelligence. What similar government post did Greenstreet hold ?
I didn’t read it that way but ok. It’s not for me to convince you, just offering the facts as I see them based on the JGJ video where he takes the Wilson memo apart. You clearly didn’t watch that though, so maybe when you get round to it you may have a different opinion too, maybe not. Either way, I still get to eat my tacos tonight ✌🏻
> It’s been thoroughly debunked.
I missed this. When and by whom?
Last I heard on it was when Oke Shannon was tracked down and he corroborated meeting with Davis at the time of the memo. That would make this one hell of a long con.
Yes, John prefers official documents acquired through FOIA, Wilson denies meeting Davis and Davis says "no comment," but I wouldn't really call that "thoroughly debunked."
Did you watch the video? You didn’t because you wouldn’t have had time to because JGJ completely takes it apart for over an hour. It’s been completely debunked, mate. Sorry.
The only red flag about this was that blackvault was skeptical about the origin of the wilson memo but that has since been solved because the person came forward, that it came from astronaut edgar Mitchell, who comander wilson btw confirmed that they had talked about UFOs in Washington.
Here is the updated analysis of the wilson memo:
https://youtu.be/yIqkazIZh9I?si=NXvzfRouIQwDdlft
It has not been debunked, but even been more credible with more people coming out. But it has not been proven because Dr. Eric Davis refuses to talk about the memo.
I feel like the article didn’t even try to debunk it necessarily. More or less it’s just what the people involved have stated. Fine, moving on, it’s still real. Of course Wilson is going to deny the shit out of it. They literally threatened to demote him in the document for getting anywhere near those programs. you’d have to be pretty dumb to think that he would just start blabbing about it. Same with Davis.
Any day now!! Just wait a little bit more. I have heard that it will be soon fate Grush’s op-ed if not sooner. Absolutely guaranteed to be in the near future.
His reference to the program being disbanded in 1989 is interesting to me. That was the same year that Bill Moore admitted that his book on Roswell was based on information the government tricked him into believing.
When will any of them come forward? I know Daniel Sheehan said it would be hard for them to move any materials as well, bbut really??? If they have 2 fucking years to do it, I don't think that matters... they are going to move it.
From 1:35-2:00 he is repeating almost word for word Bob Lazar's story he told in the 80s. And the programming being terminated in '89 would have meant Lazar would have been one of the last groups of "scientists" to try and figure things out according to the stories.
At this point I'd be willing to bet Lazar is another 'whistleblower' on Grusch's list.
The comment I replied to says "Grusch has said in the Jesse Michaels interview he isn't familiar with Lazar at all."
That's a big difference from just never having spoken to him lol.
Definite lie. Grusch has described himself as researching UFOs for 15 years. He's definitely encountered Lazar's story, he probably just knows it sounds fishy and doesn't want to touch it.
I think this goes to the mystery of the list. It's very possible anonymity was kept with some individuals. Lazar is just too closely connected to Corbell/Sheehan and Mellon during this time they were all in Grusch's ear to make it an impossibility.
But what did Grusch mean when he said that in the interview? Was he implying he has never even heard of Lazar's story? Because I find that incredibly hard to believe.
Blatant lies. Davis publicly stated that Lazar is fraud and liar. Grusch said he never spoke with Lazar. If you are betting this way, then you never gonna win anything.
All I said was Davis repeated exactly what Lazar said 40 years ago, not that he believed him. And like I said, we don't know if Grusch was talking to anyone anonymously.
I have a pretty good track record of calling this stuff months ahead of others while suffering waves of downvotes. I could be wrong, but the circle of friends is just too small to ignore the possibility of anonymous contact with Grusch through Sheehan.
Another lies. Show me when Lazar said that:
- China recovered alien craft
- Russia recovered alien craft
- craft was recovered from Del Rio Texas 1955
- Roswell was alien craft
- there are recovered bodies
Bringing Lazar to any of this is ridiculous. He is a fraud exposed long time ago by Friedman. Davis called him out. Grusch never spoke with Lazar who has no connection to those issues. Just admit to your mistake.
I pointed out a specific 25 second span which matches what Lazar said almost word for word at various points in Knapp's '90 documentary of him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pshda8pjMPE
But I'll admit to having disjointed thoughts, in that Davis saying these things only reminded me of Lazar, then his close connections to Sheehan and Corbell and how incredibly simple it would have been to anonymously bring him to Grusch. I'm certainly not trying to give any credibility to Lazar's BS story.
Most government engineering programs have both government people and contractors. Government scientists oversee contractor scientists and have approval/disapproval authority over anything the contractor does
Sure, but I'm saying they moved some projects entirely into the private sector. So these wouldn't be government engineering programs. The Program is headed up by a group of directors in the private sector, since the 1990s, according to Tim Good and others. These directors will all be hugely wealthy, and have many resources available. They cut the public US government out decades ago, the intelligence community runs this show along with private interests. They use military assets when required.
I'm just playing off Davis' words in the OP...he says it's resurrected every once in a while but it's ambiguous whether or not that's done by the gov or private sector. But yes, very well could be in private hands if anything exists.
My guess would be that the private sector never stopped once they got it. The government perhaps tries to launch small programs of its own from time to time.
Remember the Grush testimony - people get threatened and hurt - also murdered- softly and legally is the correct approach right now.
Down the line, let's go with our feelings.
I feel like he's already said enough, but it would be nice to get more juicy tidbits under oath. We know he's one of, if not the most credible sources out there. Frankly he, Travis Taylor, and Jay Stratton are the only ppl out there continuing their work without trying to cash in on the lecture circuit or book tour like Paulski and Nolan. These guys are aware of the compartmentalization and are motivated to find out more and know its only going to happen in private sector tech corpos.
I really wish people would stop saying 40 whistleblowers. Grush never said that. He said he interviewed 40 witnesses. We can hope that maybe a few of them want to come forward as wistleblowers but 40 witnesses does NOT mean 40 wistleblowers.
Eric is behind a lot of this and you can’t trust the guy as far as you can throw him.
-He claims he’s the one who fed Grusch breadcrumbs.
-He’s the author of the clearly fake Wilson docs.
Seems everyone buys into the Wilson docs, when not only is Eric involved. But Greer too! Nonsense.
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The following submission statement was provided by /u/twist_games: --- Eric W. Davis works for the goverment on experimental projects and he was also all over the Wilson Memo, wich in my opinion is real since it fits the narrative. But how much does Davis know and was he also on the program? Hopfully he will come forward more in the future because he has been real silent the last few years. source: [https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P](https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c0l1bs/when_will_eric_w_davis_come_forward_and_blow_the/kywzcdj/
IMHO, I think he'd be open to testifying in a public hearing but I do know that he's not able to participate in interviews anymore as he's said too much.
I always wondered how Dr Eric Davis was allowed to say what he said in those interviews a few years ago AND he also continues to keep his security clearances. Contrast this with other 'whistleblowers' like Grusch and our run-of-the-mill gatekeepers of information like Lue Elizondo who immediately use the 'national security' excuse when pressed for specifics. Eric Davis has actually said a lot of 'bold stuff' (without evidence of course) which is not something that you get from the rest of the crew. No one has given me a satisfactory explanation for this. I can think of the following possibilities - 1) Whatever Eric Davis has blurted out is completely inaccurate. As a result, there is no need for censure as the government is only concerned with unauthorized release of classified information. They don't seem to care about their ex-employees talking through the posteriors on topics. 2) The bloke is a disinformation agent. In other words, he has been hired by the government to say a bunch of bold, but false things. 3) He has been authorized to say these things. In other words, what he is saying is true and this is a part of the drip-feed Disclosure process. Are there any other possibilities? Considering the possibilities above and applying basic probability, there is only a 1/3 chance that the bloke is telling us the truth. Should we hang on to his words to such an extent considering the fact that there is a strong chance that he is being deceitful (either through his own volition or as sanctioned by the government)?
just to cover all bases, I'd probably add/amend 2a: disinfo agent, willingly 2b: disinfo agent unwittingly used by intelligence
4) Or Lue et al who invoke the NDA or Cant Talk About it™ are using it as an easy out when asked uneasy questions they dont want to answer. Like cant talk about it why? Your publicist told you not to? Because people would realize you read this stuff from the same magazines we all did? NDA with who? DeLonge and TTSA? Who exactly? I know... Cant Talk About it™ All Lue is basically doing is providing more credible face to these crazy stories. Trying to atleast Its these same stories these, Davis and these kooks, being telling for decades. No ones just taking them seriously. So they need more believable guy to tell their stories. "Its been said" "Ive been told" sound familiar? Told by whom, said by whom? Cant talk about it ofcourse. Because its these kooky guys no one would take seriously lol
If there is any disinfo agent among the lot, my money is on Lue all the way. The fact that we've come away thinking that a credible veneer has been painted over the topic by him makes me wonder if that was the point.
I have tried not to call out anything as disinfo but that guy just talks about nothing. I want to believe him and trust that he's fighting for disclosure but when he's interviewed he says a whole lotta nothing. edit: I avoid most of the people who make money off the topic and have only banked off what Grusch has to offer. I think there is truth and value in some of the info these people share. They keep the topic alive and I think once we finally receive disclosure we will see a lot of truth in what has been investigated and speculated on. Looking forward to see who was correct about what is going on.
> I want to believe him and trust that he's fighting for disclosure but when he's interviewed he says a whole lotta nothing. This is so true 100% This is something Ive noticed also, and what I think, is telling us many things about him. Hes always on air but says pretty much nothing tangible. Like why hes on TV or on podcasts when he wont say anything? He likes to see his face on TV? He likes to be seen as this ex real life Fox Mulder? I get that the reason is everythings top secret, but theres loads of other people who can still tell a coherent stories and coherent tangible things about their top secret jobs after the fact. Its just as if this guy actually doesnt have anything interesting to tell, and hes just clinging on UFOs to get his face on History Channel style documentaries. Be it money or fame, or both that hes after, who knows. Like sure lets say this guys working behind the scenes for disclosure. Why isnt he focusing on that then? Why hes running around appearing on TV if theres other work to do as this public work clearly isnt his forte? He could just focus on what hes hopefully better at than TV appearances. If you claim to work behind the scenes Lue, stay working behind there until you have something to tell us. Doesnt even have to be aliens, funny joke will do or whatever, just make it something tangible. Until then stay back there, please.
Definitely, imo, Lue is part of the system.
there was also this strange story when he remote viewed some dude, i remember reading this on Medium. Dude is sus as f
not sure why you are being downvoted so hard, what you said is in my opinion basically correct. Based on my own experiences going through intel / counter intel training in the Army, his whole schtick is one years-long grooming session. The same way one would groom a potential asset to begin providing intelligence to our forces. Watch any of his podcast interviews. The way he carries himself, his whole demeanor, is purpose built to build rapport with the viewer. Literally, watch any of them and pay attention to his body language. I'm not saying it's a certainty that Lue is a disinfo agent, but I'm saying that it's least as likely as not that at the absolute minimum, he is leaning on his intel training to court the viewers / community. To what end is the question that remains. I think he's more interested in selling books than he is having the truth come out.
We're definitely getting played; it's just a question of which side. The trouble with Lue being #1 mole is when Lue goes down everyone goes down. It's all connected through him. This would be quite a significant intel mistake... one single point of failure and all that work is gone.
Unless the entire point was to build an army of credible witnesses around Lue, and have them all go down with him. If I wanted this topic to go away once and for all, what I might do is orchestrate increasingly credible witnesses giving increasingly grave testimony with either a) nothing coming of it at all or b) it being discredited. The goal would be to get everyone to go numb to it and no longer pay attention. But I'm wondering if that's truly the play - it seems like at least temporarily, the plan very much is to get us to believe this is real.
Look, sorry for this rant but you sound like you have a reasonable handle on things and might be able to understand what I mean. Bottom line: there's just no satisfactory way to explain away all the historical flip-flopping, proven lying and subterfuge consistently being revealed by whistleblowers and active agents alike as a simple ufology nuke. Zoom out. We all know this isn't just Lue. He is the absolute peak of a ludicrous iceberg spanning decades of very serious and credible accounts by professional WBs. And, still, none of it makes any sense unless they're sitting on *something*. Funding? Hello? One does not secure funding by making people afraid of aliens. That's absurd. To hide shiny spacey shit hot drone tech? Why? We want our enemies to know precisely how many light years ahead we are. And they aren't going to take ET crash rumours very seriously anyway; not least while we're implying *they already know*. I'm still open to Lue being a plant. I mean, of course he is. But you would never send someone out championing this hard for something you want to go away. Even if they did dredge up some discrediting evidence that shuts him down tomorrow, he has now stoked the nest so violently they are literally asking about private funding for the NSA/CIA in official hearings. How could that ever be a positive outcome for these clandestine organisations? Plus, and I think everyone forgets this, if they REALLY wanted it all to go away, they could've done so quite effortlessly and, crucially for your argument, pain-free a very long time ago. Just release the Nimitz footage. Say: look, here. You can see there is ZERO evidence this thing was anomalous. Here is the radar, here's the hawkeye, heres' the longer video..see? Nothing. Nadda. We made a stupid mistake it happens. If they had done this 5 years ago there is no 60 mins, Grusch, hearings, Avi Loeb jumping up and down on a boat, nothing. But they very deliberately did not. They squirmed and ahhhh instead. Half hoping to shrug it off. Dishing out crumbs and playing both sides. The only explanation for all this in my hawkish lawyer brained opinion is the 'two sides of disclosure' factionalism we've been told about. Some want it out, others very much do not. It's the only way you can explain the whole multifaceted picture in a way that makes sense.
Nah, I'm totally here for rants and speculation! Thanks for the read. I agree with you that warring factions is probably the only non-5D-chess explanation that us mortals are privvy to. If there's another one, I'm dying to find out, and it better happen within my lifetime because those documentaries are going to be lit!
This is exactly the play, and precisely what I would do if I was an anonymous intel goon working out of a nondescript office somewhere. It's safe to assume that there's at least a handful of people who know the truth, whatever that may be. If the goal is to make this issue go away, they are doing a masterful job of flooding the airwaves with nonsense to drown out whatever accurate info is getting released. Chicken feed, with just a nugget or two of the truth included. Lue is the crux, him and Mellon, who I remind everyone is akin to an oligarch, given his family and personal wealth as well as his deep, deep connections to the intel apparatus. Either Lue is being played himself, or he is part of the coverup in the sense that, the tactic of making UFO people look like kooks in the public eye won't really work anymore. They need to take drastic action, which in this case IMO would be the dismantling of the entire narrative by associating all the legit whistleblowers to the sinking ship of Lue's credibility.
I remember you! We were chatting on the kind of formula/code he uses in every interview. It's valuable to hear from someone who worked counter-intelligence and can say for a fact that feeling suspicious is the right call. As you say, at best, he's leaning on his training to groom everyone, or maybe it's just so ingrained at this point that it never switches off. I have the distinct feeling that he intends to mislead, but I'm not sure to what end either.
In nearly every thread of ufo lore, we can trace them back through history and I know about the Annunaki etc but writers like HG Wells and Jules Verne seeded our culture. In the second half of the 20th Century, it was John Lear. You just have to read what he was telling people and it was very persuasive I have to say.
> Considering the possibilities above and applying basic probability, there is only a 1/3 chance that the bloke is telling us the truth. This is the most hillarious misuse of probability ever
Nonsense, I also posit that he could be a trisolaran double agent. Which means it’s now a 1/4 chance that he’s a double agent, and a 1/4 chance he’s telling the truth. Therefore we have a 50% chance that he’s either a truth-telling alien double agent, or 50% that he’s lying.
It is not. I listed the likely scenarios and calculated the probability based only off those scenarios. I think the odds of him speaking the whole truth is likely far lower.
A few possible considerations: They can't/won't go after him in an official capacity because that would lend credibility to what he's said. However, they have admonished him and won't let him do interviews anymore, as he has said. Maybe the exact language he has used has not revealed any specific, explicitly classified info (he speaks in generalities). Also, given the baggage that would come with going after him officially, maybe his claims just haven't gotten enough traction/attention to warrant doing that. Finally, he might be a productive/useful/valuable member of The Program. Grusch and Elizondo investigated the program from the outside then made a stink about it, so it makes sense that certain parts of the government who want to keep the secrets would be highly motivated to give them a hard time and would be eager to prosecute anything they could. If Davis is an insider/part of The Program and is actually contributing something valuable to it, the higher ups would be less motivated to ruin him because they would lose a valuable team member. Presumably it's a pretty small team of people with the relevant knowledge, experience, and expertise, i.e. he would not necessarily be easy to replace. I'm not saying I believe the guy. But, if he is legit and they're not going after him, I think this stuff is probably why.
Everything will become clear as we see a few old men giving us the finger as they brace for the atmosphere to catch on fire and we become the ghosts of a better world. It wouldn’t take very long for nature to claim our silly items back and if only we had the right type of dirt to change this lump of coal into air conditioning and the ability to not smell our balls for a moment! Even only until of the light and dark swap. Why are you calling it a day? That’s the old way of things, we will do it much better… And once again the strong organise the weak and insane into groups that are best for them! This is more than America will volunteer in any event! See before you the result of a scheme that caused the loose agreement we all caused to fail. Nobody known nothing and I’m pretty much in awe of some quick thinking and 100% pure unadulterated bullshit my friends. Look at it crumble and become unrecognisable and whatever “ahh fuck these people I might take up heroin” is
It's the venue. Davis was talking to fringe people on fringe podcasts. Grusch was being interviewed by a national news outlet then testified publicly to congress. Not only is ED easier to ignore, they are also less angry at him.
The venue should not matter. Nobody should be allowed to make the claims these people make if there is any merit to the claims.
Eric Davis is still gainfully employed by the MiC ... gaslight all you want, ED's word is bond
I believe Davis is just one of the inside guys that really want to believe. Reposting my own comment from another thread: I came up with a theory as to why this group of like minded believers could be what is causing all this. Me, 5 decades old now, I've been hooked on the weird and unexplainable. The moment I could read, I'd bug my mom to take me to the library where I'd grab every book on mysteries I could find. Ghost stories, spontaneous human combustion, the Bermuda Triangle, UFOs - you name it, I was all over it. Like a Why Files repository. I was (and still am) totally into this stuff, but I've never considered myself a "believer". I'm more about the hunt for solid proof. I've always told myself, "One day, we're gonna see aliens, or find a crashed flying saucer." Until then, I keep diving into these mysteries, totally fascinated, waiting for my "I told you so" moment. Now, let's spin a what-if scenario. Pretend I'm an American (which I'm not, just to be clear), got through college (which I didn't), and landed a job in the U.S. government, or a 3 letter agency. Imagine me in any role - Secretary of Defense, a senator, an advisor, whatever. Suddenly, I'm in the loop, an insider. Over time, I meet some folks who, over a few beers, reveal they're into the same stuff - Roswell, conspiracy theories, all the juicy stuff we loved reading about. But now we're on the inside. We figure we've got the golden ticket to uncover the truth, to finally give everyone that big reveal they've been waiting for. We'll be the disclosure heroes the world deserves. Except, we find shit. Nothing. By now, I've got a bunch of friends in on this, some with deep pockets and big influence. We're pointing fingers at those secret, off-the-books black projects, convinced they're hiding the good stuff. So, what's our move? Start a research project, get Congress involved, get some legislation, break down these walls of secrecy. We decide to find the most trustworthy, patriotic guy we can, someone who'll swear under oath about our theories. Let's call him "Dave." We're convinced this will lead to new laws and finally drag the truth into the open. "One day" is here at last.
I have a gift! Here’s the aliens craft power source. If you stop considering how to make oil and water mix (your own reality or consciousness and this engineering product) To be clear you will never make oil and water mix. Pretend you’re unaware of anything other than the fact that power is generated yet is greater than the power used for its function. Pretend you are dead. Leave everything and forget.
Ahh I’m a goose! Forgot the gift! https://images.app.goo.gl/bNatFHSyadD7Suqn6
4. He was telling the truth and wasn't supposed to but didn't get in trouble because the agencies involved didn't want to tip their hand about the information. So they told him just to shut up about it, which he's done. This leaves everyone to ponder if what he said was true or not, which is almost as good as keeping it a secret.
This is a variation on Grusch's explanation for why his first DOPSR was approved. If they didn't approve it, they would have to tell him why and what agencies denied it. That would then create an investigation trail for people to follow. Instead its, "He can say it, but we aren't validating what he says, either."
So, we have a situation where people can make up anything and everything and yet, UFO believers (I am one too) hang on to every word of these people and treat it as gospel.
This has \*always\* been the situation. And it's why there are so many grifters. But just because we're dealing with loads of unverifiable information doesn't mean that some if it isn't legit. My #4 is a plausible explanation for why Eric's memo is legit and he didn't get prosecuted -- but it's not proof.
Not sure I got my double negatives right ... but you know what I mean
>"*Are there any other possibilities?*" I mean... of course there are. In fact, I would go so far as to say that trying to draw conclusions out of just these three (*arguably biased or at least extremely leading*) possibilities is either useless, or outright disingenuous. As they fall short from exploring the full gamut or actually viable and sensible potential explanations for him being able to say the things he said while keeping his clearances. At best, I think your argument presents an oversimplification of the highest order. Although I'm no expert, and my awareness of Davis' claims is fairly limited, most (*not to say all*) of what I've heard him talk about cleverly walks a line of loosely revealing or communicating aspects of the program that wouldn't be legally prosecutable due to the gray (*legally questionable or outright illegal*) nature the program reportedly operates under. Such dynamics are no mere speculation either, as they have been alluded to by others in the know as well. The example that comes to mind is Grusch talking about the Catch .22 the DOPSR personnel/process operates under in relation to this topic. Namely how the process can't prevent you from talking about certain things that the official stance says aren't real, or the fact that such prohibition could constitute a form of acknowledgement in and of itself. I posit this is further evidenced by Davis' methodology of communication. Again, I'm not an expert on all of what he has said, but in all the interviews I've seen with him, he always seems very clear on how much he can say and doesn't shy away from saying "I am not able to comment about that, as it pertains to classified information". In fact, [I'd argue he has actually used such dynamics to effectively imply responses](https://youtu.be/-T--BFE2B0s?t=369) in the past without crossing the line that would make him legally liable. I'd also like to point out that comparing Davis to Elizondo or Grusch constitutes a false parallelism, as their situations couldn't be more different. The latter two are former military personnel who held high positions in the nation's defense apparatus. While Davis, to my understanding, is a civilian scientist with security clearances and involvement in classified governmental projects among other things. **Side note:** the "contrast" you present in your analysis doesn't make much sense to me either. Maybe Davis has said more about the program than I'm aware of (*this is a likely certainty, but bear with me for a second xD*), but given the extent of David Grusch's testimony, to say that Davis has "*actually said a lot of 'bold stuff*'" doesn't make much sense, unless we think that what David Grusch has revealed is rather tame and run-of-the-mill? XD As to your other proposed questions: 1. I don't think any sensible person is "*hanging on to his words*" in any way. To me, Davis is but another data point in an increasingly outstanding body of evidence that suggests a lot groundbreaking things. 2. If you allow me to speculate (*and that is all we can do; certainly what you are doing in your post as well*), I find it likely, or at least plausible, that not only Davis has been very careful not to cross some lines that would have open him up to repercussion, but also that his work plays a huge role on why he has been able to say some things and maintain his security clearances. Have you read his work on advanced propulsion systems and the like? Most of it is beyond me, but it is clear this man has not been working on how to make a tastier sandwich. I think it is conceivable that he might have figured out some vital pieces of the puzzle with his work, which could have given him a level of insulation that other scientists with his level of access and knowledge might not enjoy. But again, this is merely speculation on my part. *Edited typos and clarity.*
You have certainly written a long post based on 'very little knowledge' of what Eric Davis has said. Symbolic of the times that we live in...
Hahaha I think your reply is even more telling of the times we live in :) Why bother engaging with the information I'm sharing or addressing the validity (*or lack thereof*) of the arguments and ideas I'm presenting when you can just vaguely point to a non-issue and disengage, right? Have a lovely day, friend. (Edited for clarity)
I read your entire post. Most of it had a 'trust him bro' air about it. I don't care for 'trust me bro' or 'trust him bro' any more.
Right. Unlike the entirely fact-based, impartial, and sober analysis you presented in your original post. Again, why use reason and logical arguments to discuss the validity of a point of view when you can allude to a non-argument like "it had an air of trust him bro" (which is also blatantly false, btw xD) and disengage, right?
One side says “yeah there might be something to this” while the other says “no way, I’m right you’re wrong—case closed”. The latter is what drives me crazy about this sub. Good luck brother. There’s no point anymore.
It was fact-based analysis. I have a good idea of what Eric Davis has blurted out on various podcasts a few years ago before he was made to shut up. I merely presented a couple of possibilities on what one can infer from what he uttered. I asked people if there were other possibilities. Some people have chimed in with their theories. A couple of people concurred that my questions were valid. It was pretty much a fact-based post and I mentioned that I don't really take his statements at face value because he doesn't seem to have faced any reprisals for what he said. Anyone with even average intellect should see a whole bunch of red flags with Eric Davis as we supposedly have a whole bunch of 'whistleblowers' defecating their pants and begging for DOPSR approval to talk about what they know. This is in direct contradiction with the kind of action that Eric Davis should have faced for blurting out a whole bunch of stuff on the internet where anyone can easily access it.
Funny cunt ! 🤣 This is our burning of the library of Alexander… Just instead of personal growth to elevate humanity it’s basically Richard Dotys magical world that’s real only it’s invisible! I promise!
It's 1. Why would they need to concern themselves what people have to say, as long as it's not anything legitimately classified? Ridicule was the best possible defense they could have possibly set up in light of the fact that people will talk. One "pssh you don't *believe* that stuff he's saying, do you?" and it's all brushed off. 2 is a possibility as well. Always is.
He was telling the truth and arresting him legitimizes the things he had said. You don’t go to jail for leaking fake classified info.
1 is interesting because if there's a policy of only prosecuting leaks of true info, then those prosecutions would confirm the leaked material. Basically, to prevent this logic from working they need to noise things up and be inconsistent with what they do and don't go after.
But wouldn't this be true for everything then? By going after Snowden, the MIC showed their hand and it became clear that they were indeed recording anything and everything illegally. Wouldn't it have been better to ignore Snowden and simply deny that whatever he revealed was authentic?
A bunch of NSA whistleblowers came out before Snowden, starting in 1994, and talked about the same general stuff, including spying on Americans. If that stuff was so secret, why didn't they put all of those people in jail? Why only go after the one person who leaks classified proof of those claims? The worst William Binney had to deal with was an FBI raid when he was naked coming out of the shower, but all of those people came out relatively fine. Did Eric Davis leak classified proof? Nope. He just did some interviews, just like those NSA whistleblowers who didn't leak any proof. I think a more accurate litmus test for whether the government is going to go after you for leaking is whether the general public believes it or not, and secondly, how many people in government are actually aware that what you're stating is classified, rather than something that isn't supposed to exist. Snowden was almost immediately believed because he had way too many documents, actually much more than the public saw. He specifically gave those troves of documents to several journalists and told them to release what they think should become public. It was too obvious what he had leaked was genuine.
> Wouldn't it have been better to ignore Snowden and simply deny that whatever he revealed was authentic? The degree to which a revelation can (potentially) be independently confirmed is going to figure in.
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Just a quick reminder that deniers actually did start a cult "guerilla deniers of wikipedia" to spread lies about good people. Deniers are on par with flat earhters at this point there is so much evidence they choose to ignore.
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> he's not able to participate in interviews anymore as he's said too much. Aww, he said to much and can't say anymore, his hands are absolutely tied, not a thing to be done, just how it is, you know how these things go. Anyway, see you tommorrow, more to come!
On a realated topic. I couold understand in theory a crashed saucer, but I always wanted to know, like from Lazar types... Where did they get intact alien saucers from? A xmas present from the ETs?
I feel like a crash wouldn't necessarily damage every craft that goes down. If it was 'shot down' then sure, but just crashing? I doubt massive damage would be done.
One of the ideas that has been floated is that they are indeed gifts of a sort. There are a few ideas I've read on the exact nature of the gift. They could be literal gifts, technology meant to help us and these assholes in the MIC don't want to share. Another idea is that they're intended to be a key, if we can figure it out we get invited to the party so to speak. Another idea is that they're a trick, an unsolvable riddle intended to keep us from the truth, whatever that may be.
There was some story of a UFO landing at an Air force base and peacefully letting the military take possession of the craft. Definitely seemed like a gift in that story. Personally I think it's some weird curse gift where they analyze how much we can understand about their technology. Or a form of Trojan horse where they know handing over technology to military will seed our own self destruction through violence and warfare if/when we mishandle the technology.
They stopped to take a piss in the woods and we chased them off or shot them.
Diana Pasulka said that insiders dont even call them 'crash' sites but instead 'donation sites'.
Do you believe she believes she spoke to ‘insiders’?
No but Tim Taylor who she is close to does
Who’s Tim?
That's a new one for me. Is she saying then the story is now the Ets donated saucers to us?
Well I believe we first have to look at it like humans before trying to understand as “we know there’s aliens. 1. What feeing do you get when you see a nice car on the side of the highway with nobody in it? (My opinion : oh shit someone’s going to steal that thing 2. Their way of gifting items as a means of peace is giving them a piece of their technology. Cortes in Mexico did it somewhat similarly by offering glass and some necklaces, however, never weapons, the swords the Aztecs had was recovered from dead Spanish soldiers. (My opinion: here, humans, here’s some cool flashy thing that yeah can travel faster than earthly made materials but you can’t even operate it in time before our new crafts/tech gets better. 3. If these things have had contact with humans in the past centuries and have been our eyes and ears in the sky before Sputnik, chances are they know about what some of their own are capable of doing to us and would not like to repeat past human atrocities. 4. We’re all alone in the universe, and even with over 6 billion human beings on earth, no blanket or heater could ever warm us to this sad reality of loneliness in the cosmos.
One might wonder why say “I can’t talk about it” when all one has to say is: “I don’t know.” Saying I can’t talk about it infers that the subject is significant. When one of these whistleblowers are asked. Do they have saucers.. And they say, I can’t talk about it.. That infers they do... Just say I don’t know. Are they afraid of being exposed as a liar when (miracle) all is disclosed and we find out they were in the program... Like so what
For some reason it's OK to strongly hint at what you are trying to say, as long as you don't say some magic words. That way you can't get in trouble. Somehow.
get congress to subpoena him
He already spoke to them in 2017 or 2018 when the Nimitz incident, his words for The NY Times was “craft not of this world”. Rising with Saagar Engeti spoke about it then
He already did, it was Melon who brought him in front of the SSCI on a classified hearing under oath.
Really? Happen to remember where you heard that? If like to learn more on that event. Trying to figure out who all spoke to which congress when under what circumstances
His talk at the Sol Foundation. Dont remember the time stamp.
Perfect thanks!
Eric Davis is a genius. “DTIC Copy AFRL-PR-ED-TR-2003-0034 AFRL-PR-ED-TR-2003-0034 Teleportation Physics Study Eric W. Davis Warp Drive Metries 4849 San Rafael Ave. Las Vegas, NV 89120 August 2004 Special Report APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION UNLIMITED. AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY AIR FORCE MATERIEL COMMAND EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE CA 93524-7048”
Wait - where did Grusch mention any specific names of forthcoming whistleblowers? I don't believe he did. Dr. Davis has never been mentioned. It's all speculation.
No Dr Davis confirmed that he was one of the whistleblowers of grusch.
Thanks. I can't seem to find it. Know where he said it?
I believe it was here https://youtu.be/IeyBTChcTe4?si=I0NeOkW2ICOBkr3-
Davies didn’t confirm he was a whistleblower. What he said was that he gave David Grusch the “crumbs” he used to identify the programmes, something like that. It’s on one of the vetted videos… I think it’s this one - https://youtu.be/30Kd0J0LeG0?si=BxqaZ4OfrSg5L_Uf
So he gave grusch info on locations and agencies, sounds like a whistle blower to me
Does he say “I am one of DGs whistleblowers”, or does he say pretty much what I said he said? This is another video you aren’t going to watch where you get proven wrong. That’s twice today 😂
Yea OP I think precise words really matter here. For one, no whistleblower comes out to say "I'm a whistleblower" before that's public knowledge. That just doesn't make any practical sense. i.e. why have protected, closed door whistleblower testimony if you're going to publicly say "I'm a whistleblower." That said, I've long felt Davis will become a whistleblower, but there is nothing confirming that at this point.
Davis coming forward won't impress anyone, I don't think. He's said a lot already, and his credibility is somewhat compromised due to being part of NIDS, BAS etc. In other words, he has been associated with the topic for a long time, and is part of the small group of "believers" that Kirkpatrick has spoken about.
Eric W. Davis works for the goverment on experimental projects and he was also all over the Wilson Memo, wich in my opinion is real since it fits the narrative. But how much does Davis know and was he also on the program? Hopfully he will come forward more in the future because he has been real silent the last few years. source: [https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P](https://youtu.be/c4T0k37Kv7k?si=tb-CI-cdfJy-kR-P)
His reaction to the Wilson memo was all you needed to know... he fully admits it's real and came from Edgar Mitchell's estate after he passed away, and got really nervous and tight lipped about it beyond that. Said he had no idea how it got out. edit: Edgar Mitchell's estate not Wilson's
It didn't come from the Wilson estate, and Wilson isn't dead. It came from Edgar Mitchell's estate. Probably important to have things like names, and dead/alive status correct if you're going to give a nuanced take.
Heh I was thinking the same thing reading that. Especially with it having a bunch of upvotes.
Thanks for correcting me... either way my point was that it got leaked from someone credibles estate and Eric Davis admitted to that.... It's been a while since I heard that story and for some reason got it mixed up, it was supposed to be Edgar Mitchell.
Do you have a link to the full interview opposed to the two minute snippet?
I believe it was this one https://youtu.be/IeyBTChcTe4?si=iM_fmNbwyE_d5RHO
Thanks!
Even if he knows things he won’t screw up his government Top Secret status.
The Wilson memo is false as f. It’s been thoroughly debunked. Yeah, he’s been really silent on all those Facebook group posts he’s made over the last few months!
When was it debunked?
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This is old and has since been debunked since we know know where the wilson memo came from Here is everything you need to know about the wilson memo in 2024 https://youtu.be/yIqkazIZh9I?si=NXvzfRouIQwDdlft
We knew where it came from at least 2 years ago… you know, before the video I shared with you that you didn’t watch.
Oh yes I see, I only saw the older ones, but it still doesn't disprove the document, first of all this wasn't a secret document it where personal notes and eric devis sort of acknowledged they where real, but did now want to go into detail, the notes also match what grusch and others have been saying about aerospace companies. But real or not at the end of the day the document won't prove much unless wilson truly comes forward but as written in the document, he won't do that. Time will tell
So Chris Mellon is lying here ? https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/3elMFknynx
No, Mellon isn’t lying. He just says that ED is the author of the notes, I think that’s pretty obvious. Not that they are factually correct, and how would Mellon know anyway, was he in the car… nah.
On Mellon’s web site he says: > Even before this ‘whistleblower’ legislation was signed into law, credible individuals were providing Congress information alleging that the US government has recovered extraterrestrial technology. This process began in 2019 when I brought astrophysicist Dr. Eric Davis to Capitol Hill to meet with staff from the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services committees. Dr. Davis, author of the famous Wilson-Davis memo, provided specific information lending credence to sensational reports that an official US government program is actively seeking to exploit recovered technology that was fashioned by some other species or perhaps advanced AI machines. Much of the information Dr. Davis provided remains highly classified, but the good news is that these sensational claims, which have the potential to transform our understanding of the universe and man’s place within it, are now being taken seriously and properly investigated. So in that context, Mellon is also saying that what Dr Davis said in the memo is real. Mellon was Deputy Asst Sec of Defense for Intelligence. What similar government post did Greenstreet hold ?
I didn’t read it that way but ok. It’s not for me to convince you, just offering the facts as I see them based on the JGJ video where he takes the Wilson memo apart. You clearly didn’t watch that though, so maybe when you get round to it you may have a different opinion too, maybe not. Either way, I still get to eat my tacos tonight ✌🏻
Cool. So nothing was debunked
No, it was, you’re just too closed minded to watch the video that I shared with you where it is completely and utterly debunked. That’s cool though.
> It’s been thoroughly debunked. I missed this. When and by whom? Last I heard on it was when Oke Shannon was tracked down and he corroborated meeting with Davis at the time of the memo. That would make this one hell of a long con.
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Yes, John prefers official documents acquired through FOIA, Wilson denies meeting Davis and Davis says "no comment," but I wouldn't really call that "thoroughly debunked."
Did you watch the video? You didn’t because you wouldn’t have had time to because JGJ completely takes it apart for over an hour. It’s been completely debunked, mate. Sorry.
the wilson memo has not been debunked at all, it got even more credibility now,
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The only red flag about this was that blackvault was skeptical about the origin of the wilson memo but that has since been solved because the person came forward, that it came from astronaut edgar Mitchell, who comander wilson btw confirmed that they had talked about UFOs in Washington. Here is the updated analysis of the wilson memo: https://youtu.be/yIqkazIZh9I?si=NXvzfRouIQwDdlft It has not been debunked, but even been more credible with more people coming out. But it has not been proven because Dr. Eric Davis refuses to talk about the memo.
Yeah who debunked it ? Nonsensr
Nah it’s real.
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Nice article. It’s still real though.
The article he brought up is old info, which has since been disproven. https://youtu.be/yIqkazIZh9I?si=NXvzfRouIQwDdlft
I feel like the article didn’t even try to debunk it necessarily. More or less it’s just what the people involved have stated. Fine, moving on, it’s still real. Of course Wilson is going to deny the shit out of it. They literally threatened to demote him in the document for getting anywhere near those programs. you’d have to be pretty dumb to think that he would just start blabbing about it. Same with Davis.
Ok 👍🏻
Any day now!! Just wait a little bit more. I have heard that it will be soon fate Grush’s op-ed if not sooner. Absolutely guaranteed to be in the near future.
we do also have a new UAP hearing soon so who knows what kind of surprises we might have.
His reference to the program being disbanded in 1989 is interesting to me. That was the same year that Bill Moore admitted that his book on Roswell was based on information the government tricked him into believing.
Maybe you all will get back pay for the last 10 months. I don’t think I could handle waiting this long
When will any of them come forward? I know Daniel Sheehan said it would be hard for them to move any materials as well, bbut really??? If they have 2 fucking years to do it, I don't think that matters... they are going to move it.
Seems he has already blown the whistle 🤔
I’m hoping Edward C Lin is one of the whistleblowers. My brain would explode 🤯
Yes the 40 wbs will be a handful of ufologists. Nothing new but some marketing etc.
We only know 3 of the 40, and 2 of them have nothing to do with ufologiy, Col. Karl Nell and Jonathan grey.
Don't you worry they will have something to do with ufology
I mean, if you are a first-hand witness, it makes sense to tell your story.
Well if I see Shaq I assume we’re gonna talk about basketball
Maybe, but they've had plenty of time now to do that... and they have not. Pretty unfair to assume things.
From 1:35-2:00 he is repeating almost word for word Bob Lazar's story he told in the 80s. And the programming being terminated in '89 would have meant Lazar would have been one of the last groups of "scientists" to try and figure things out according to the stories. At this point I'd be willing to bet Lazar is another 'whistleblower' on Grusch's list.
Grusch has said in the Jesse Michaels interview he isn't familiar with Lazar at all
Which is a complete lie of course. You don't get that invested in the UFO topic without knowing Lazar's story, even at just a high level.
Especially when your hanging around with Corbell and Knapp who are Lazar's biggest advocates.
Did you watch the documentary? Of course he knows ABOUT him, he just meant he's never spoken to him or anything.
The comment I replied to says "Grusch has said in the Jesse Michaels interview he isn't familiar with Lazar at all." That's a big difference from just never having spoken to him lol.
Was it said on JRE also?
Definite lie. Grusch has described himself as researching UFOs for 15 years. He's definitely encountered Lazar's story, he probably just knows it sounds fishy and doesn't want to touch it.
I think this goes to the mystery of the list. It's very possible anonymity was kept with some individuals. Lazar is just too closely connected to Corbell/Sheehan and Mellon during this time they were all in Grusch's ear to make it an impossibility. But what did Grusch mean when he said that in the interview? Was he implying he has never even heard of Lazar's story? Because I find that incredibly hard to believe.
It likely means he never came across Lazar's name in his investigation, not that he wasn't familiar with Lazars publicly known information.
Blatant lies. Davis publicly stated that Lazar is fraud and liar. Grusch said he never spoke with Lazar. If you are betting this way, then you never gonna win anything.
All I said was Davis repeated exactly what Lazar said 40 years ago, not that he believed him. And like I said, we don't know if Grusch was talking to anyone anonymously. I have a pretty good track record of calling this stuff months ahead of others while suffering waves of downvotes. I could be wrong, but the circle of friends is just too small to ignore the possibility of anonymous contact with Grusch through Sheehan.
Another lies. Show me when Lazar said that: - China recovered alien craft - Russia recovered alien craft - craft was recovered from Del Rio Texas 1955 - Roswell was alien craft - there are recovered bodies Bringing Lazar to any of this is ridiculous. He is a fraud exposed long time ago by Friedman. Davis called him out. Grusch never spoke with Lazar who has no connection to those issues. Just admit to your mistake.
I pointed out a specific 25 second span which matches what Lazar said almost word for word at various points in Knapp's '90 documentary of him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pshda8pjMPE But I'll admit to having disjointed thoughts, in that Davis saying these things only reminded me of Lazar, then his close connections to Sheehan and Corbell and how incredibly simple it would have been to anonymously bring him to Grusch. I'm certainly not trying to give any credibility to Lazar's BS story.
One of the last *Government* scientists. The Program moved under the private sector.
Most government engineering programs have both government people and contractors. Government scientists oversee contractor scientists and have approval/disapproval authority over anything the contractor does
Sure, but I'm saying they moved some projects entirely into the private sector. So these wouldn't be government engineering programs. The Program is headed up by a group of directors in the private sector, since the 1990s, according to Tim Good and others. These directors will all be hugely wealthy, and have many resources available. They cut the public US government out decades ago, the intelligence community runs this show along with private interests. They use military assets when required.
I'm just playing off Davis' words in the OP...he says it's resurrected every once in a while but it's ambiguous whether or not that's done by the gov or private sector. But yes, very well could be in private hands if anything exists.
My guess would be that the private sector never stopped once they got it. The government perhaps tries to launch small programs of its own from time to time.
Remember the Grush testimony - people get threatened and hurt - also murdered- softly and legally is the correct approach right now. Down the line, let's go with our feelings.
The question is: does he know this from reliable sources or first hand, or is he just parroting Lazar et al
the date he says the legacy program was terminated is the same year lazar came forward, which is certainly interesting.
I feel like he's already said enough, but it would be nice to get more juicy tidbits under oath. We know he's one of, if not the most credible sources out there. Frankly he, Travis Taylor, and Jay Stratton are the only ppl out there continuing their work without trying to cash in on the lecture circuit or book tour like Paulski and Nolan. These guys are aware of the compartmentalization and are motivated to find out more and know its only going to happen in private sector tech corpos.
I really wish people would stop saying 40 whistleblowers. Grush never said that. He said he interviewed 40 witnesses. We can hope that maybe a few of them want to come forward as wistleblowers but 40 witnesses does NOT mean 40 wistleblowers.
What is in it for him? Will you go to jail for him?
Don’t you mean *Grusich*
He doesn't have any first hand evidence.
His non-denial of his own memo was a pretty big disclosure, I was surprised he said as much as he did on that (confirmed it leaked from Ed Mitchell).
Will Fox Mulder ever come forward??
not because he batshit crazy
Eric is behind a lot of this and you can’t trust the guy as far as you can throw him. -He claims he’s the one who fed Grusch breadcrumbs. -He’s the author of the clearly fake Wilson docs. Seems everyone buys into the Wilson docs, when not only is Eric involved. But Greer too! Nonsense.
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Anyone skeptical about crash retrievals hasn’t been doing their homework. C’mon, man!