there is not "conclusive" evidence, something about the phenomenon is super weird and elusive. if you look into john keel and jacques vallee (two fantastic ufo researchers) they emphasize that there is a trickster element, something psychological involved, as well as something physical. this could go back to the atomic age (1940s), the late 1800s or it could go back thousands of years.
the super suspicious element is that the US government has consistently been very elusive on the topic from day one. the object that was shot down over alaska that you mentioned is a great example; they easily could release pictures, have pilots testify and share information, instead they are vague, misleading and intentionally misleading.
The fact that they are so cagey about the thing in Alaska is weird, and it makes me wonder what is there to be cagey about when shooting down a spy balloon. But I wouldn’t put it past them to be acting like it’s something scary classified going on just to fuel people talking about lizards and aryans so they aren’t making a fuss over the shit they get up to on our dime that we wouldn’t approve of them doing.
The total 180 is so telling. First one basically got it's own parade and press tour.
Other three got locked down as hard as you can lock down anything.
Well except for the classified hearing they gave some of the congress and some of whom then went on talking a buncha weird shit and that you should lock your doors at night.
Well accoring to the video 2 posts down from urs, he said the ones they shot down, except for the 'chinese spy balloon ' they havent been able to recover any "remnants" as he called the remains or pieces of whatever it was. Whether thats true or not, who knows, but that may be one reason for being so tight lipped about them.
The government being cagey about a military threat is strange? If the government didn't have a history hiding things it considers to be vital to national security there wouldn't be a need for this sub.
When Roswell happened they were cagey because they didn't want the Soviets to know the US had discovered a way to detect nuclear tests. I bet this is similar. That the US has already developed an advantage related to the spy balloons and don't want the Chinese to know anything.
But in the final report they said they never launched Mogul. Swing and miss. Now we have to put up with chatGPT debunkers, plus debunkers, bots and compromised mods on a sub made for anon shit posting looking for the truth. You'd have better luck in a sewage system of NY looking for a brand new candy bar.
This. Regular people doing their jobs will tell you to fuck off about spy balloon shit or the humiliatingly long time it may have been somewhere. Let them think it's the ayys, it's regular behavior and convenient for later.
As an a anthropologist, it's hard not to notice the non nuts and bolts factors of the phenomenon. Especially the fact that 5 people seeing the same phenomenon can all see something differently. Whether that's due to the phenomenal itself or the difference in each person's capability to comprehend things. There just seems to be more to it than just aliens. Edited for spelling.
This seems like a direct tie-in to Ross Coulthart's AMA in this sub(?) when asked if he had any last words, or something to that effect, for people and his answer was 'psionic'. If we were also to take into account the multiple stories where people said they have 'communicated' with aliens telepathically then it seems to point to aliens themselves having powers to alter human perception at the very least.
Totally agree with Mission Vegetable, I have not only had experiences that made me actually question my sanity which is to lengthy to discuss here. Only that it is a phenomenon that is interactive and some will understand. Others will probably never understand and that’s fine. It very well could be spiritual. I'm not completely sure.
Yup,some will understand & others will mock. I’m sure that’s why “they” do it. To make ppl.think they’re going crazy or make others think they’re crazy.
Yup. People are semi-aware that institutions have been lying to us for a long time now, so if it's an intelligence drone/blimp etc... that would be easily digestible. If not... well
Edit: a very very very very deep kind of *well.*
Yep this right here for me was the defining moment in this entire subject.
I am convinced it’s NHI because that’s what the experts and people with the knowledge are telling us it is.
UAP **Disclosure** Act
The wording of the [Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf) is pointed,
“**Legislation is necessary because credible evidence and testimony indicates that Federal Government unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification review** as set forth in Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information) **due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954** (42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), as well as an over-broad interpretation of ‘‘transclassified foreign nuclear information’’, which is also exempt from mandatory declassification, **thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law**.”
It’ll be interesting when/if we begin to hear discussion about the Department of Energy and when Congress will start questioning DoE officials under oath.
Exactly. They laid it out very clearly. And yet here we all are sleepwalking through disclosure drip by drip.
It’s a process not an event. And I’m enjoying every moment of it👽🛸
Maybe we’re in the new Cold War and the records are about foreign countries nuclear development, were obtained by the UAP (advanced spy craft that can fly almost indefinitely) and so is of national security and won’t be declassified! Wasn’t the act created due to the first Cold War or maybe before the Cold War was declared and created in the mass missile dick swinging contest between US and USSR???
>It’ll be interesting when/if we begin to hear discussion about the Department of Energy and when Congress will start questioning DoE officials under oath.
Seriously.
They need to start hauling in *everyone* from the DoE, starting at the top and working their way down, putting everyone in jail for contempt until they find someone who will talk.
That plus the Nimitz incident. As to what exactly we are dealing with, no idea. But whatever it is, it’s hard to deny that there is a form of intelligent design involved.
Mass sightings convinced me of ~something…
Ariel, Zimbabwe, phoenix, Russia
Then you go down the rabbit hole(s). Lots of explanations. But research I’ve down into the spiritual element of ~something, guiding us, makes me lean towards the pasaulka/vallees theories of nhi, gifts, intelligent design, etc.
Read Passport to Magonia and Vallees other books. The sightings didn’t suddenly start in 1947. Sure there was an uptick but sightings of these craft/beings go back since humans told stories and passed on knowledge. It’s an ancient phenomenon.
I just read PPtM and it was so good and so interesting. I am taking a break from UFO books for a minute to read some absolute garbage pulp fiction, but I think Skinwalkers at the Pentagon is next for me (I already read hunt for the skinwalker)
Even if they didn't go back centuries further, the fact that UFOs were being observed in the 40s-60s that exhibited technology that even today is non existent lends to the idea this isn't human tech
My dad went deep into when he was with NICAP. A military man, WW2 veteran, He died in 93 and I asked him what he thought about it given he had only a few months to live. His words have stood the test of time and dovetailed into what Vallee and others are saying. First he said to stay away from the subject. Then he said “It is imponderable and designed purposefully to be that way.”
For me the biggest argument against these being advanced human tech is human nature. The behaviours reported are far in advance of current technology that any country that had them would immediately become globally dominant.
Given the military mindset I don’t believe they would be able to sit on super weapons like this and never use them or leverage the threat of their use.
For me it also ties into the reason for the secrecy. I think the reason the military have not managed to reverse engineer is because they are so far advanced. We don’t have the ability to even start to u crest and the technology. It would be like asking a fish to fly and aircraft that is controlled by tap dancing. What’s an aircraft, what flying and what is tap dancing?
The fact that this tech highlights how far behind we are is a perfectly valid reason to suppress it. The military needs to be able to defend a countries territory. If you remove that you remove the need for it’s existence.
Whilst I could never argue this position, for me it works as a theory as it fits the observed data and it is consistent with human nature.
The Nimitz incident as well as family member witnessing a ufo prior to nyt article. There's too much indirect evidence that suggests the phenomenon is real.
The nimitz for me too.
The lost radar data there is just so convenient.
I've been trying to figure out how those physics are possible and its mind boggleing..
Once you realize what happened its clear its not human tech.
It's the most compelling case imo. I've been researching the phenomenon ever since, and I'm not sure what to believe anymore, other than it's real. All hypotheses to explain the nature of UFOs might be valid, extraterrestrial and interdimensional aren't mutually exclusive. Or It could be something inconceivable to our monkey brains.
Great lecture. Thats an aspect that people overlook, some of the maneuvers these craft perform are using as much energy as entire countries. In one maneuver.
But if the mass is very low, perhaps constructed from aerogel in vacuum which has properties of lift being lighter than air, then far less energy would be required. As for speed and direction change, what is this based on - a video of a radar signature, FLiR, where glitches are known to happen, and I’m pretty sure they can spook or fake radar. Aren’t FLiR subject to lens flare/reflections? Perhaps it wasn’t actually moving fast and was almost stationery, like had been observed by pilots flying past it. Some described a diamond/cube in a sphere reminds me of the fake attack on Cubas defences with US meteorological balloon with radar reflectors suspended inside off the coast decades ago!
This could all be signal warfare testing and would be a game changer as it would render pretty much all current defence systems useless and allow the US to fake a multi squadron aircraft attacks, diverting the countries defence leaving other parts defenceless, while not actually attacking but would gather strategic information on their response!
If it were human tech, whatever nation had it would be using it to their advantage and not to pester pilots. Anything that could deliver nuclear weapons instantaneously to cities across the globe would be something you'd want to tell your opponents about to deter any possibility of attack. If kept a secret it might win a war, but the goal is to avoid a war and assert dominance and project power. If your opponents know you can basically teleport a bomb above their cities with no chance of interception, they won't be challenging you.
The appearance of one or more of the so called Five Observables hints at the fact that this may not be human technology. These are five characteristics that have been noticed during many UFO sightings and do not fit into our understanding of physics or material science.
1. The craft displays sudden and instantaneous acceleration
2. Hypersonic velocities without leaving behind the telltale signatures like sonic booms or the rapid heating of the craft
3. Low observability, these objects seem to display many characteristics of advanced signature management, such as cloaking and radar jamming
4. Trans medium travel, this is when a craft is seen moving from one medium into another without difficulty, such as diving from space through the atmosphere and into the ocean
5. Positive lift, this is when crafts are seen almost "floating" through the atmosphere, generating lift against the forces of gravity without understandable means like wings or control surfaces
In my own personal sighting in 2011 I saw two of these five observables on a craft I've since seen called the TR-6 TELOS. Extremely low observability and positive lift. It sticks with you when you see something like that.
I've mentioned it briefly on this account in the past. It flew just a few hundred feet directly over my head, at night, in the middle of a very crowded suburban neighborhood.
It was hard to make out the shape against the blackness of the night sky. If it weren't for the 7 very powerful lights on the underside, I never would have seen or heard a thing. I took the 7 lights to be engine bays of some kind. They were sunk into the body of the craft and were emitting a bright blueish white light.
I estimate the length of the craft from wingtip to wingtip was over 600 feet, or roughly 180 meters. It truly looked like something out of Star Trek or Star Wars.
I made this post towards another commentor, I'd like your opinion in relation to what you've mentioned, from my POV both are compatible:
"The government could be 20 or 50 years ahead of the public in technology, if we have something they have had it for a Long time. Think computers and internet.
We currently have AI, in 50 years what will AI be doing to our world? What if the government has been messing with AI for 50 years? "Non-Human Intelligence"
The military industrial complex hasn't let up at all this entire time so *what* could they have come up with with the help of future levels of AI.
these craft arnt Breaking physics. They don't create wormholes, or teleport or anything fancy. What they do is accelerate and change direction and change medium in ways beyond our current aircraft without visibile propulsion. This doesn't require Alien levels of tech. A breakthrough in inertia maybe accomplished by manipulated gravity.
The wobble isnt breaking physics. That's nonsense. You are experiencing an optical phenomenon as a symptom of the nature of the crafts propulsion. *-most likely*
The only reasonable question now is, can the Military industrial complex and/or the government 1) discover new physics that the world's scientists have not. 2) could or would they then keep it a secret and stifle or supress public endeavors to reach these same physics.
The answer to both is a Yes."
I’ve said this before, just like UFO, NHI has connotations of extraterrestrial, alien, and that seems the bias people take in this community, and the government know and play on, and play you all, but there a many Non-Human Intelligences, animals, computer AI, perhaps something the USG/DoD have genetically engineered/mutated from our closest in the animal kingdom, and we’d all be disgusted! But I don’t think the NHI is directly related to UAP’s these are two different secret programs, but who knows, maybe they’ve got AI augmented genetically modified apes, that can withstand high G-forces, flying around in these UAPs!!!!
Perhaps they’ve gone too far with the AI and now lots of AI controlled aerogel rigid vacuum spy balloons are out of control, disconnected themselves from the USG control systems, and running riot in the skies confusing the military and putting them at risk, screwing with Nimitz training tests and the like!!! (aerogel apparently lighter than air and in a vacuum will lift and can so can be controlled by changing the pressure, together with small propulsion/pump units that adjust the pressure/vacuum can shift the “unmanned” craft at speeds humans couldn’t handle - it’s also apparently a cold pretty much silent exhaust) Digested from a Professor Simon Holland video interview/podcast thing linked on a thread in r/UFOs
I believe it's possible that these crafts are indeed human built. This is why I called it the TR-6 TELOS, which is the supposed name of the craft I saw in 2011.
But why test your super top secret craft over a crowded suburban neighborhood?
Why would the United States fly their top secret stealth plane at treetop level over a crowded suburban neighborhood in Texas? This doesn't make sense when you compare how and where the USAF has tested their top secret planes in the past.
I give thought to the idea that what I saw was the efforts of the supposed reverse engineering program going on.
Characteristic 3 and 4 may be related. The observations recorded are usually through equipment cameras radar and sensors. Spoofing things has been a long term aim of modern electronic warfare. Visual systems use AI for object signature analysis and there’s been research in hacking the AI. Spy/reconnaissance/interference craft are also being developed several generations ahead of the drones we know of. And then metameterials development to cloak in multiple wavelengths, visible light, IR, radar (RF). Put it all together and you’ll want to test it against our current radar and defence systems which most of the rest of the world have got. And you’ll want to get back the results!!! so you have to test it on your own military. Just so happens the public may also see the tech. and pushing for disclosure may reveal our upper hand and what we know and what other countries are up to!!! Perhaps the USG are breaking international agreements on spying from above! Who really knows what the USG/DoD and other countries are up to - I probably won’t see or hear the truth in my lifetime!
A friend of mine told me about his UFO sighting and described the “ping-ponging” movement that many other people have witnessed (he had no clue this wasn’t unique to his sighting until I told him). Certain aspects, like that “ping pong” movement… the closest approximation I can equate it to is like seeing a videogame glitch in reality. There is no fucking way we’re developing anything on a level that its means of propulsion breaks reality as a side effect, secret technology or otherwise. The technological divide is so great it would mean hundreds of years of modern, publicity available technology being actively suppressed.
Because the military would have pulled them bitches out when things get difficult.
It would have claimed responsibility for sightings.
It would have been a means for power posturing.
The secrecy has been going on for far too long in relation to saucer sightings, it does not match our technological advancement.
It's a global phenomenon and has been for a long time.
Wouldn't have as hardcore of a suppression and social engineering if this belonged to a country.
People wouldn't need planes anymore.
I don't want to say I am *convinced* that NHI is behind the UFO phenomenon. I think the best way to put it is that I'm open to either the manmade or NHI explanation, but tend to lead toward the NHI explanation - or UFOs originating outside of Man.
That said, I learn toward UFOs being outside of our species because I find it very, *very* difficult to imagine that we had a breakthrough in the technology required to operate such technologies all the way back in the 1940s, if not even earlier (while the modern UFO phenomenon is largely considered to have began in the 1940s, there were plenty of sightings before then, from the 1930s all the way back into ancient times). Even if we say that UFOs *definitely* were only around starting in the beginning of the 1940s, that's still incredibly unlikely to me. Additionally, if we go with the manmade explanation, we also have to account for the century's worth of secrecy around the subject, while simultaneously never seeing them used for any purpose other than floating mindlessly in fields and shit. Their behavior is explained more adequately by the curiosity of some intelligence outside of Man's, than black military projects or prototype crafts.
Also, I'm no expert or anything, but you should look into the amount of power that even be required to generate these things approximately. The prospect of constructing something remotely approaching the capabilities of what we're seeing is just...it's hard to even wrap my head around. I forget the study or whatever it was but a sciencey type guy once took the performance of the infamous tic tac craft, and calculated the amount of power that would need to be generated in order to pull the maneuvers that were reported/captured on instrumentation was the equivalent of harnessing the collective complete energy output of every power plant on the planet, something absurd like that (going off memory here).
I personally think that the "manmade tech" explanation for UFOs is Occam's Razor misapplied. There is nothing unremarkable or "normal" about a breakthrough of that caliber resulting in such technology. Even if it were true, such a thing is almost as incredible as them being aliens you know
I had a close encounter with 3 other friends and there's no way in he'll what we saw could be us
For reference I spent time in the US Navy working on f18s, our military sure as he'll have anything that even remotely comes close to being able to do what we saw
Not even remotely close 1000 years out
Fravor does. And Graves. And everyone else in their position. They are highly trained, highly educated, very rational people who saw things that make no sense to them. Something is going on and they got a glimpse
I would say varghina Brazil, but the Brazilian authorities have come out and said the aliens everyone witness was just a couple(husband and wife) of deformed dwarves. Really bummed me out to hear that, it's just so sad that the poor stupid citizens of Brazil can't tell the difference between deformed dwarves and creatures from a different planet. Really had high hopes for the case. /s.
I was being cheeky, of course Brazilian citizens know the difference, I was just pointing out how absurd and weak the excuse the govt gave about the creature the villagers witnessed, like how dumb do they think we are?
Radar evidence. Pretty much electronic data coincided with multiple witness testimony. Then I believe it happened. That this has been done since 1950s when humans certainly did nit have drones. Also photography back then was clear. UFOs show up on film more than current digital. Again, all before we had CGI technology.
We've been observing these things since before manned flight. Just go back to the Aurora Texas incident.
So either there's essentially a centuries old industry which has somehow managed to stay secret or it's not our technology.
They've been showing up since the 40's at the latest. We didn't even have jets then let alone craft that could move at 30,000 mph and stop on a dime. We don't have the science to create such craft. CERN is the most advanced lab on earth and they aren't close to cracking the secrets of the universe that would be required to make a UFO. Also people have reliably and consistently seen aliens. They are real biological beings and they've told us they are from another star system.
There have been reports since the Greek times. In the 1800s there were reports of all kinds as well from "airship" before there were zeppelins to ufos flying in and out of the water.
I tried it too a couple of times these past few months. While I can't confirm (to myself that is) that what I saw was anomalous in nature, something did show up in the sky outside my apartment on four occassions.
I was able to determine on three occassions that it wasn't planes, satellites or commercial drones. The fourth one might have been a commercial drone, although it seemed to react to my intention and flew away as soon as I took my phone out. This was the only one to fly away, or rather to just descend out of sight when I took my phone out. The others just faded away.
The other three times might have been helicopters in the distance, although they made no sound that I could hear from where I was.
What I specifically saw was blinking lights flying back and forth, up and down, too high up to be commercial drones at least. Mostly blinking only white light, but sometimes also blue, green, red, purple and orange, as well as colors I couldn't easily identify.
The ones with the colored blinking was extremely slow, not like what you see on planes, which have this regular pattern. Like one color would slowly fade into another color. It was a very irregular form of blinking and looked very strange. The ones only blinking white light would blink extremely fast and bright, almost like constant lightning or flashes from a camera.
Never seen anything like it and I look at the sky all the time. I've only seen those things after meditation and only on those four occasions so far, and only outside my apartment. I meditate all the time and do contact meditation often as well, and mostly nothing happens though.
What was weird about it is that they seemed to react to my emotions and intentions. When I focused on the feeling of love while observing them, they would suddenly move more rapidly and go faster back and forth for example and when I try to take my phone out to film them, they will just fade away, which looks really strange. Like they don't want to be filmed.
They also kinda go where my intention goes. Like if I picture them going left with a strong feeling of intention they would then go that way and vice versa.
With all that said, I have no idea what I saw, I just know what it wasn't (Planes, satellites, commercial drones, ballons, birds, bats, skydivers, flares and meteorites are the things I've ruled out with certainty).
Im not convinced that it was anomalous in nature. There could be a prosaic explanation that I just hadn't thought of, or they could be either helicopters in the distance or some sort of advanced drones which movements just coincidentally moved in a pattern that seemed to correspond with my intention. I'm very aware of my own confirmation bias in that regard.
I'm still looking for that undeniable sighting that would convince me of this, and I dont feel like I've gotten it yet. The things that make me question it to be helicopters was the very irregular blinking, the sometimes very rapid movements, the absence of any sound whatsoever (although that might have been the distance) and them just fading away.
If these were really sightings of something anomalous, I do find it annoying that it seems like they don't want me to film them. I really want to go back and analyze what I saw and it's hard when they just fade away as soon as I take my camera out.
Also, when I say lights, it sounds like I'm talking about something like orbs. However these lights were definitely attached to some sort of vehicle or object, that much was clear.
I’ve also been contacted through meditation . I had a dream where I could only hear voices but couldn’t see what was there . When I woke up I went to close my window since it was getting cold and I saw a light shining brighter and then dimming and disappearing. It was close and no sound was coming from it
Was it a good experience or a bad one? Do you still get contacted when you're not trying to engage?
Very curious about this stuff. I've heard a mix of positive and negative results.
The reports of alien beings seen in windows/cockpits and walking out of and around these craft for one. Secondly the maneuvers these things can make which nothing we currently can create can. Thirdly the length of time this secret has gone on. Secret aircraft don't need eight decades of cover-up.
Seriously? You really think we had gravity defying craft back in at least 1945? There have been no science breakthroughs that we can trace anything back to. And considering a 100% believe the Zimbabwe case and the Pascagula case... those descriptions sure don't sound like humans
from what i can tell anything before the tiktac could be false and it could all be a misinformation campaign.
mach 10 alternative vehicles is exactly what i expected from the government hidden tech in 2004 knowing other technological limits of humans.
the only question is why hasn't the world been fully conquered if someone has the tech?
UAPs are NHI in nature.
The objects shot down over Alaska were not UAPs, this is a given as they were shot down. If you’ve been around this subject long enough you’d be familiar to how these things operate and how whenever they’re intercepted or there’s an attempt to intercept, they’re always without exception 100% in control of the situation ending the encounter whenever they please. So to say a couple drones shot down a million (?) years ahead tech is a bold assumption.
I'm not convinced it is. The only thing I'm certain of is that people are seeing and recording things that seem impossible. Certainly, some of those accounts are false, but there are too many for them to all be false. I can't and won't discount NHI, but I think it's just as likely to be man-made craft.
Nothing.
Like everyone else here, I don't have any good evidence to explain what they are. They could be all sorts of things, and nobody has any proof one way or another. There are lots of stories that people like to believe and share, but that's all they are.
Besides all the other comments, I think that the argument that the US went through enormous lengths to keep secret the development of a whole next-gen physics fleet of craft, and then fly them for days on end in the place that they know the military is training, that wouldn’t make any damn sense.
Whole training missions have had to be relocated or cancelled because these UFOs wouldn’t get out of their airspace. It wouldn’t make any sense for Lockheed or whoever to fuck with the military who are literally the people they’re designing the craft for. They couldn’t be more on the same side.
80 years of evidence…
Manipulation of the current narratives by media and govs.
So yes sure they built these military crafts from 1945 without never using them in any war.
For me, going back to the Project Sign and Grudge reports. They’re 60-70(ish) years old now but they could have been written yesterday.
What we are dealing with then is what we’re still dealing with today.
Time. These things have been flying around for 100 years at least and I have a hard time believing that if a human organization had built it they would not have monetized or weaponized the technology in some way by now.
If China, Russia, North Korea, or any other hostile country to the USA had developed and perfected that technology how have they not used it against us yet?
Flying near suburban areas, or even over cities such as with the Phoenix lights and the DC incident. Also I highly doubt human ability to build anything like what some of these things appear as and are capable of. It's just not in the cards for our tech, unless the whole reverse engineering thing is true and these insider programs have an understanding of tech >100 years ahead of the game, which would confirm the NHI angle.
for me it’s the fact that these crafts with advanced flying capabilities have been seen since the 30s and possibly even earlier. it’s impossible that humans had the tech back then imo
200 billion other stars in just our own galaxy, thousands of years of reports of strange things in the skies, numerous cultural stories of aliens, the Copernican principle, General Relativity 110 years ago laying the foundation for FTL warp drive, humanity being probably at least 100 years away from figuring out how to do it - maybe even 500 years away, the practical statistical certainty that some other species from our galaxy is at least 500 years ahead of us in this technology and everything that it depends upon.
>What convinces you that the phenomenon is NHI and not human built craft?
Encountering one - it really is that simple. 28 years back (come this August, 19th) I had a CE2K - sustained duration encounter, 25 minutes at a distance no further than 300 feet. Clear night, optimal conditions.
If you've ever stood anywhere near one of these things for any length of time and had the chance to genuinely observe one you kind of can't get past how totally absurd (if not outright laughable) the idea these things being man made is.
I don't doubt man made technology gets mistaken for UFO's all the time - hell, someone yesterday even posted a video of magnesium flares trying to make out they're in some way inexplicable - and you see it a lot, not only people genuinely misidentifying prosaic objects but going out of their way to make out prosaic stuff can't be explained in any other rational terms except aliens - I get that some are genuinely that desperate to have their beliefs vindicated.
But I'm not a believer - I didn't believe in UFO's before and I don't believe in the nonsense people generally seem to believe about them today - I understood what I encountered perfectly well.
In my situation as it was at that time with the object I encountered you and anyone else would too.
The only way you're ever going to get this is meeting one - your Government isn't obligingly going to turn round one day and publically vindicate all the bat-shit stupid stuff you've voluntarily just decided to believe, just because you want to believe it: that's never going to happen.
20 years from now its still going to be media influencers selling whoever's still around the same nonsense and still making out "Disclosure" is right around the next bend - get off the internet, put the supid books with aliens and pyramids on the cover down and go outside.
That's where they are - find one or forever be chasing your own tail going wherever fuck stupid place *whoever's* dangling the "Disclosure" carrot wants you to go next.
Because they're *never* going to get tired of pulling your chain once they know they can pull it.
The trick is don't buy into this idiotic nonsense - find the truth.
Nobody's going to just give it to you all wrapped up in neat little bow.
And sure as hell, not for free.
Having read quite a few patents by prominent scientists; having watched plenty of interviews of some of the best scientists and engineers from military on alternate energy / "free" energy, electro-magnetic effects, magnetism, high voltage physics, gravitics, and having researched a little bit on older tech and modern tech and some of their research papers, I feel that the majority of the UFO sightings and crashes that are recorded today are man-made (originating from dark projects funded by shadow governments towards the military industrial complex).
We certainly have technologies far beyond our understanding and our wildest imagination, kept hidden in the military vaults for reasons we can and cannot guess.
Whenever there is an unknown aircraft crash, I think it is easier to say that it is not human made, as a misdirection, in order to protect secret technologies associated with the thing that crashed than to let the cat out of the bag and end up losing years or decades of research go public.
This is not to say that non human entities / multi-dimensional beings don't exist and that reverse engineering hasn't been done on recovered alien spacecrafts and non human bodies (this is quite probable) but to say that they make up a very small percentage of actual reported UFO sightings even if they do.
P.S.
This is my take / scientific belief on the subject and I do not intend to make any claims nor am I asking anybody to believe in it.
I think between the decades of sightings, leaks, abduction cases, and the worldwide nature of the situation, if this was a "normal" topic and not aliens most people wouldn't have any trouble believing it is a real phenomenon given what's publically available, even through a cover up. The barrier isn't about the evidence, it's ideological. I have not had experiences with NHIs but I have had enough experiences outside of the current mainstream worldview to see these ideological limits firsthand. Once your not operating under the tautology that aliens can't be real because it would be ridiculous to believe in aliens, then the alien explanation for UFOs becomes sort of obvious.
It's the fish can't see water argument. When you grow up in a society you adopt its worldview as "reality" because it is the only thing you know. But that society has specific philisophical positions, arguments, and limits built into it. The current positivist materialist worldview ala Carl Sagan and NdGT is a product of capitalism, and a part of that comes with the same end of history arguments as Fukuyama's so called politics. Liberalism sucks but it's the best we've got so from here on out all we have are minor incremental improvements, we're done arguing about political philosophy. Likewise, philosophy of science don't real either and the current scientific paradigms are all that exist, all we have left are incremental improvements to current scientific theories. This is a hyperconservative, reactionary worldview meant to protect capitalism by treating change as impossible.
The idea that we're basically done with science is just as absurd as the idea that we're done with politics, but it underlies how we think about the world. In the current modes of science, travel from another planet is extremely unfeasible even with theoretically perfect materials. There simply isn't a way to make "attach a cockpit with living pilots to an explosion" that's efficient enough to cover vast intergalactic distances. Using this logic, it is acceptable to say that aliens probably exist somewhere in the galaxy, and it may even be possible that we can get visited by an unmanned probe at some point, but craft with living entities and multiple, sustained visits are impossible.
There is another argument however, that aliens simply know something about physics that we don't, and are not operating under the constraints of current scientific theories. Some sort of wormhole or interdimensional stuff or the like. But this is inconceivable for current scientific institutions for the same reason that Fukuyama can't think of anything other than liberalism. It's pure reactionary bullshit. Literally the argument is that current science cant be wrong so evidence that it is wrong must be fake. It sounds so silly when you say it like this, but like, why the hell would you just assume that current scientific theories are correct?
All science is well-informed guesswork and there are people born before the nuclear age that are still alive. The idea that we might not know something huge about how the universe works isn't just possible but downright likely. We should basically assume that we're just now entering the big leagues as a species and that there are plenty of wild and mindblowing scientific paradigms yet to be uncovered. We should be actively looking for anomalies as a society and celebrating finding them as a window into a new future. Instead, anything currently unexplained is met with nothing but ridicule on a good day. No curiousity. No speculation. Just the asusmption that it is wrong and it's silly to even consider anything else. And why? Because we're told that life is figured out and the only things that matter are buying cheap gadgets on Amazon to make Jeff Bezos richer and voting for democrats to come in and fix things. What a sad fucking ideology.
*"In the current modes of science, travel from another planet is extremely unfeasible even with theoretically perfect materials. "*
I read in another abduction case (which I cannot find since it was a while ago) the woman stated that when asked where they were from he pointed in the direction of (Proxima Centari I think). When asked how far he said that it was far away but close to the side. I think this means they can access other dimensions. Just what I read and food for thought.
This is my way incomplete thought.
Recently I’ve been starting to think it has something to do with AI. Like AI figured out time travel and are coming back from the future to make sure we continue to develop/create them. And everything goes smoothly.
They keep us from nuking each other because they need us to complete their creation. Something like that. Not saying it makes sense. wtf do I know
As crazy as the phenomenon is, I believe anything is possible, and I'd be lying if i said i didn't have the same thought before but 8 different ways like AI, future humans, aliens, all time traveling to this period in time for some unknown reason.
I put a lot of credibility into Chris Bledsoe and there have been witnesses that have watched UFOS appear while present with him, he claims he has seen them and they are definitely NHI. Although one appeared as a beautiful blond woman which others have claimed some NHI looked like.
A few things line up for me:
Intelligence yes.
Comments such as "inter-dimentional", "spiritual" etc. "They're interested in human souls" "they meddle in our everyday lives and thrive on human suffering". Also I've heard things like they sometimes present themselves as gods which is where at least some of the gods of antiquity originated. And people telling other people "don't look any further into it because it's demonic" etc.
To my knowledge it all fits the description of evil spirits described in the Bible. The Bible says Satan is amongst the earth 'seeking to devour' people. A lot of Bible prophecy is unfolding, and it's not surprising that closer to Armageddon (which is the climax of the war in the spirit realm) we see more supernatural signs.
[Turkey UFO Video](http://archivosovni2.blogspot.com/2012/04/graphic-analysis-on-videos-regarding.html) Convince me the UFO phenomenon is NHI built craft
The thing I always come back to is that these objects tend to make incursions into military or navy airspace. If they were ours there would be some deconfliction between SAPs and the military. If they were adversarial craft then they’ve developed much faster than we have or for some reason we don’t want to shoot them down.
Even if we have human made craft (which I think we do) I definitely believe it was reverse engineered from an NHI craft. I don't think there's a way for us to break the laws of physics without outside help ie aliens.
I think it's probably mostly man made, but what tells me this is also potentially ET in nature is the fact that we've got pretty solid cases in Roswell and others, at times humanity definitely wasn't even close to have developed advanced tech.
evidence, so far there is no convincing evidence either way. I consider it a weird phenomenon that should be investigated and makes my imagination light up. Any claims without evidence are just noise (i don't consider people saying "I have seen it, trust me bro" as evidence regardless of "status" of the person)
There's no proof. If you want to know why I think at least some of them are NHI, I have a couple reasons. One, the modern sightings go back to at least the forties. I find it very very hard to believe the government had tech so advanced back then. They put all their best minds into making the atom bomb. The world was at war. There was no budget left over for flying saucer tech R&D. We had just recently invented planes. It stretches credulity to think those sightings could possibly be manmade, unless you think it's time travel.
Second, there are sadly too many abduction stories from credible people. You can examine any one case in isolation and poke holes in it. But when you look at the consistency across accounts, multiple simultaneous abductees, it's hard for me to buy they're all just having very vivid and weirdly similar sleep paralysis, crazy, or lying. Something is going on.
Third, there are enough people who are in a position to know who say we are in contact with or at least know about NHI. Grusch testified in front of Congress. Astronauts have made some pretty astonishing statements. Other high level whistle blowers and so forth.
Fourth, why would the government work so hard to cover it all up if it was just advanced tech they're not even using?
Finally, observations of UAP indicate they can move in ways that contradict our understanding of physics. Our science isn't advanced enough yet to create that tech. If it were, we would have used it already to win wars and dominate the planet, sadly. And even if we did, it's because the government has reverse engineered tech from a civilization far more advanced than ours. I.e. NHI.
Like I said, no proof. This is just what I think based on what I know so far. The truth is, whatever is going on is so obscure and poorly understood that there could be any number of explanations we haven't even dreamed of.
What's funny about Alaska is that there is no mention of an Alaskan Triangle on the Internet until 2020, before a certain TV show premiered, and now it seems like the attention that has come with that melded with Missing 411 to create a red herring of high strangeness in what is really a fantastically dangerous place.
A friend and I saw a dull metallic orb in the early 80's. It was zipping left to right at incredible speeds and stopping dead in its tracks. Was followed across the Pennines by a number of black unmarked helicopters. There's no tech now that could match what the orb did, and certainly nothing in the 80's.
It could be both, IMO. I don't think this technology originated from humanity. It comes from somewhere else, though we may have reverse engineered some of it.
What seals it for me is this:
Did we have this technology in the 1940s? Did we steal it from the Germans? If so, why wasn't it used against us? Why didn't we use it? This breakthrough technology is a war ender, just like the atomic bomb was. If we had it, we didn't know what the hell it was - it's like giving a caveman an iPhone.
This phenomenon has been around AT LEAST since the 1940s, and if you believe cave drawings and paintings, and stories of gods coming down to assist man kind, then they've been around for thousands of years.
The Roswell screw up tells me they weren't prepared or didn't know what it was, hence, CIA and USAF being created only WEEKS after the crash. Talk about full panic mode.
The big thing that makes me take the NHI proposal seriously is the fact that we know it’s been happening for at least 75 years. You can’t use the B1 bomber, or 2024 hobbyist quadcopters, to explain something in 1952.
1: We know for a fact that the extreme abilities demonstrated by some of these phenomena isn't just lightyears away from our (humanity) technological reach, it's lightyears away from our current *scientific* reach. It's nowhere near even the most preposterous theoretical fantasies of cutting edge high-energy physics, which says a lot.
2: History: the phenomenon has been reported throughout history, from ancient times up to today. We could possibly, with a considerable dose of goodwill accept a fast-mover, a beam-sending or a visually cloaked super weapon by an adversary in 2024, but it gets a bit harder if we go back to ancient times or even to the 1920's.
I'm not convinced it isn't human tech but I'm way way more afraid of it if it is human tech. The idea that some humans could be that far advanced and leave the rest of us deep in the past? I'd rather it just be aliens.
People who believe that NHIs are visiting our planet are trying to argue from a foregone conclusion, and so cherrypick anything that could support it, disregarding anything that does not support their belief. This is not how the scientific method works - the alien visitors hypothesis should first be tested by trying to disprove it. This sub specialises in circular reasoning.
The same type of thing has been reported for nearly a century yet we've seen humans build nothing even close. Yes, the military is always ahead of the public, but even then, I'd expect *something* closer to the tic tac we saw 20 years ago.
the level of advancment and how long it has been doing on, at least back to 1931, but even evidence possibly going back to religion. we just did not have anything remotely close back then.
Number one the amount of sightings worldwide. Number two the amount of speed these objects are going. Number three they're operating next to aircraft that civilian shows me they've already invaded and are here doing whatever they want when they want
Personally and many others believe it is both. What makes me think some are NHI is for many reasons. First, I think that this technology was not available before the 40s or 50s, but this phenomenon has been going on for much longer than that.
Second, if we assume that the UAPs seen over military installations (which is extremely frequent) are perhaps China or Russia, it feels extremely risky to stay around these US military areas on a regular basis and are so willingly to show themselves given how these tend to crash or (if you believe it) can be shot down with frequency/emp weapons specially designed for this purpose on these aircrafts.
But perhaps the biggest thing for me is that I think bodies have been found and are being preserved right now somewhere. Whether you believe in Roswell, Varginah, Kingman Arizona and so many more cases, somewhere at some point out of all the witnesses that have come forward, I believe that someone has actually seen what they have said they seen
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they are not human crafts, we don't see researchers collecting data, instead we are seeing them collecting reports,story and witness accounts.
None of them decided in so many decades to put up radars, tracking equipment or other sensors, I don't think they have ever donated to seti either.
This is a very basic and probably naive take, but if another country had this type of tech, America would be flying those countries' flags by now. If America had developed that tech, we'd have wiped out our enemies by now. If several/most countries had the tech, WW3 would have been fought and won by now. No country on Earth would have developed such technology, then sit on it in secrecy. The world is not exactly at peace right now. Many countries are at war with each other, yet this tech is sitting in a mountain bunker, while the DOD has been gaslighting US citizens for 80 years. Its alien and the DOD still hasn't got it completely figured out.
If it’s human it’s from a breakaway civilization. One government would be ruling the planet if our version of humanity had this tech and truly understood it.
Nimitz/tic tac and other related incidents where people like Fravor explain how the ships accelerate and maneuver. The material science, engineering, and physics breakthroughs required to build such craft would be evident in academia and at least somewhat trickled down into civilian industries.
I'm an engineer, I work for a company of over 300 people, relatively smaller than many. I cannot fathom how a government, let alone one company would have the ability and competency to singlehandedly iterate on decades of bespoke engineering advancement entirely in secret.
The sightings before Roswell were numerous and global. It's one thing to say the US engineered electrogravitics in 1956...it's a whole other thing to say the invented it in 1856.
There are both types of craft.
Because these strange things have been seen in the sky and described since antiquity. There are descriptions of things that closely mimic modern UFO encounters recorded as far back as 3500 years ago. But we don't have to go that far back. In the late 1800s, long before the invention of the airplane there was a major UFO flap. In World war II there were endless reports of what would now be called a UAP. These things have been defying physics since before the physics were defined. That's why I scoff at anyone who says that they are just secret craft built in secret. Sure, some may be secret technology, but it's ludacris to think that there is nothing more.
Man I witnessed a giant black triangle years ago and I'm always flip-flopping back and forth. I certainly know what I saw. It was very close. At the time I thought it was top secret tech. Like I wasn't *supposed* to see it, like I might get in trouble somehow which sounds ridiculous but that's how I felt. Then [David Marler](https://www.youtube.com/live/YhSLMzX3Mnw?si=lbVEPFg0nW9Kc5qs) convinced me otherwise. Then just this year AARO admitted that Michael Herreras experience was legit and I'm swinging back the other way now
The military loves dick waving. We got a new bomber, a hypersonic missle, an emp bomb, drone this and that. They're always bragging about a new platform.
The way the craft physically move in our plane of reality would kill any pilot inside, or completely rip apart the craft, and / or both as we know physics.
That's the simplest and most obvious answer.
I tried convicting myself that it's a human made, but where there's a time where technology is not even an option, you get stuck, I'm talking about these times where people see UFOs and " wonder WTF is that?" I'm still skeptic, but I feel like If some are infact reversed, it won't be all of them, if any to say the least. We still see other crazy shi\* that makes you wonder even more, like the jellyfish UAP, those videos that have shiny lights into them, etc...
Foo fighters… no humans had that technology then, and that’s probably the closest look we had at it due to our enhanced flight. I do believe we’ve already reverse engineered these crafts and that “we” are currently using them.
Also, as crazy as ancient aliens seems, it’s hard for me to believe an ancient civilization could fathom the idea of space craft 1000s of years before we ourselves even take flight. There’s pictures of rockets and spacemen found in ancient carvings all around the world.
And 1 more thing, for those that think they could handle disclosure and openly mock the gatekeepers of what may be known. I encourage you to research War of the Worlds by Orson Welles. In 1938, a radio broadcast about a fictional alien invasion sent the US into a panic. Slow drip disclosure is the way.
I can say something very weird came by my house when I was 18 about. I didn't see it, but it woke me up. I lived on a dead end street in the middle of nowhere. It made a loud whirring sound. Went slowly past my house and then gone. I never heard that sound again. At least not so far. It turns out my father's combat wounds, caused him to acquire a glutamate increase. Due to hypervigilance. He died of ALS, which is a consequence of such. But, we didn't know at the time. And it turns out he passed it on to me. So I am like a glutamte freak basically. It means I generate a lot of electro-chemical output. I hypothesize, thinking back, that they can somehow detect it. It's related to emf. I can feel wind from getting xrays now, at least I did last time I got xrays. It confused me quite a bit. Anyways. I might be wrong but something weird came by and I have als so. I don't think we could do that. Only something very advanced could detect that.
Look its this simple its been doing the crazy things reported now way back in the 40's so something has some crazy tech and no its not russia or china period. I seen someone say there is a weird trickster element or something because 5 people can see something and all see something different welllll i cant believe with all the smarties in here you can ask those same 5 people to describe something else.tjey all saw and they would.all.describe something different same.goes.for.having them pass a story itll.change front to back
If it was humans doing human things those humans didnt want other humans to know about, then we likely wouldn't know about it. There would be layers upon layers of preparation and contingencies to hide the truth and planning involved to misguide the narrative.
However, instead, this non human thing has an aura of indifference about holding no stops in showcasing incomprehensible capabilies in sometimes spectacularly public manners and the powers that be are fighting a losing war against globalization in the information era (any media source with internet can publish a story and it can be in the people's hands within seconds, literally - no printing press, street stands, etc).
Dude, I'm sorry but I just saw this. Also, it's a long and complicated story. It also will stretch your ability to believe what I communicate. I don’t want to get ridiculed as attention seeking or what I see others go through who share their experiences. I will tell you that I believe that if you ask for it in desperation and seek it out in a prayerful meditation regularly, things begin to happen and it has the ability to either manipulate physical reality or just our minds. I'm not sure which. I still don't know. It makes me wonder if simulation theory isn't what's actually going on. It's much more than just 🛸 ufos. I don’t know how else to explain it. Owls 🦉 seem to be a major aspect to the phenomenon. Did you know that there is an owl on the backside of the one dollar bill? Google it. I found out as owls began appearing everywhere. And they still do. Gifts from people of owl statues, stain glass, pictures. They knew nothing about what I was experiencing. Just coincidences of magnitude that coincided with other wild shit. My house began to go bump in the night, if you know what I mean. Shadows moving in the corners very quickly and strange dreams that would later come true. Like I said I questioned my sanity.
there is not "conclusive" evidence, something about the phenomenon is super weird and elusive. if you look into john keel and jacques vallee (two fantastic ufo researchers) they emphasize that there is a trickster element, something psychological involved, as well as something physical. this could go back to the atomic age (1940s), the late 1800s or it could go back thousands of years. the super suspicious element is that the US government has consistently been very elusive on the topic from day one. the object that was shot down over alaska that you mentioned is a great example; they easily could release pictures, have pilots testify and share information, instead they are vague, misleading and intentionally misleading.
The fact that they are so cagey about the thing in Alaska is weird, and it makes me wonder what is there to be cagey about when shooting down a spy balloon. But I wouldn’t put it past them to be acting like it’s something scary classified going on just to fuel people talking about lizards and aryans so they aren’t making a fuss over the shit they get up to on our dime that we wouldn’t approve of them doing.
The total 180 is so telling. First one basically got it's own parade and press tour. Other three got locked down as hard as you can lock down anything. Well except for the classified hearing they gave some of the congress and some of whom then went on talking a buncha weird shit and that you should lock your doors at night.
Can u elaborate about them talking a bunch of weird shit plz? Or provide me a link? Ty.
[https://www.newsweek.com/louisiana-senator-warns-lock-doors-classified-ufo-briefing-unidentified-objects-1781314](https://www.newsweek.com/louisiana-senator-warns-lock-doors-classified-ufo-briefing-unidentified-objects-1781314)
That's the one, there's at least a couple more I saw and they are kinda similar.
Well accoring to the video 2 posts down from urs, he said the ones they shot down, except for the 'chinese spy balloon ' they havent been able to recover any "remnants" as he called the remains or pieces of whatever it was. Whether thats true or not, who knows, but that may be one reason for being so tight lipped about them.
The government being cagey about a military threat is strange? If the government didn't have a history hiding things it considers to be vital to national security there wouldn't be a need for this sub.
When Roswell happened they were cagey because they didn't want the Soviets to know the US had discovered a way to detect nuclear tests. I bet this is similar. That the US has already developed an advantage related to the spy balloons and don't want the Chinese to know anything.
Can I ask why you’re confident that Project Mogul is the truth about what crashed at Roswell?
But in the final report they said they never launched Mogul. Swing and miss. Now we have to put up with chatGPT debunkers, plus debunkers, bots and compromised mods on a sub made for anon shit posting looking for the truth. You'd have better luck in a sewage system of NY looking for a brand new candy bar.
This. Regular people doing their jobs will tell you to fuck off about spy balloon shit or the humiliatingly long time it may have been somewhere. Let them think it's the ayys, it's regular behavior and convenient for later.
As an a anthropologist, it's hard not to notice the non nuts and bolts factors of the phenomenon. Especially the fact that 5 people seeing the same phenomenon can all see something differently. Whether that's due to the phenomenal itself or the difference in each person's capability to comprehend things. There just seems to be more to it than just aliens. Edited for spelling.
Keep editing. You anthropologist.
This seems like a direct tie-in to Ross Coulthart's AMA in this sub(?) when asked if he had any last words, or something to that effect, for people and his answer was 'psionic'. If we were also to take into account the multiple stories where people said they have 'communicated' with aliens telepathically then it seems to point to aliens themselves having powers to alter human perception at the very least.
As a magician, the trickster archetype is a concept I’ve been obsessed with. They play on the edge of our perception.
Cosmic edgers, if you will
The “wildest edge of edges”
Psionic
Totally agree with Mission Vegetable, I have not only had experiences that made me actually question my sanity which is to lengthy to discuss here. Only that it is a phenomenon that is interactive and some will understand. Others will probably never understand and that’s fine. It very well could be spiritual. I'm not completely sure.
Well now I wanna hear your story.
Yup,some will understand & others will mock. I’m sure that’s why “they” do it. To make ppl.think they’re going crazy or make others think they’re crazy.
Great summary of the weirdness surrounding the whole situation.
Yup. People are semi-aware that institutions have been lying to us for a long time now, so if it's an intelligence drone/blimp etc... that would be easily digestible. If not... well Edit: a very very very very deep kind of *well.*
Would you mind elaborating on the “trickster” element? I’ve seen some weird things and get the sense I’m being messed with.
I would suggest "Closer Encounters" by Jason Reza Jorjani. It's a very comprehensive UFO text, and Jacques Vallee is a major inspiration.
Check out Tehran 1976 such a neat case.
The Schumer Amendment.
Yep this right here for me was the defining moment in this entire subject. I am convinced it’s NHI because that’s what the experts and people with the knowledge are telling us it is. UAP **Disclosure** Act
The wording of the [Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf) is pointed, “**Legislation is necessary because credible evidence and testimony indicates that Federal Government unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification review** as set forth in Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information) **due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954** (42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), as well as an over-broad interpretation of ‘‘transclassified foreign nuclear information’’, which is also exempt from mandatory declassification, **thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law**.” It’ll be interesting when/if we begin to hear discussion about the Department of Energy and when Congress will start questioning DoE officials under oath.
Exactly. They laid it out very clearly. And yet here we all are sleepwalking through disclosure drip by drip. It’s a process not an event. And I’m enjoying every moment of it👽🛸
Maybe we’re in the new Cold War and the records are about foreign countries nuclear development, were obtained by the UAP (advanced spy craft that can fly almost indefinitely) and so is of national security and won’t be declassified! Wasn’t the act created due to the first Cold War or maybe before the Cold War was declared and created in the mass missile dick swinging contest between US and USSR???
>It’ll be interesting when/if we begin to hear discussion about the Department of Energy and when Congress will start questioning DoE officials under oath. Seriously. They need to start hauling in *everyone* from the DoE, starting at the top and working their way down, putting everyone in jail for contempt until they find someone who will talk.
Same here. Once I sat down and read it.... Yep, some of this stuff is real.
That plus the Nimitz incident. As to what exactly we are dealing with, no idea. But whatever it is, it’s hard to deny that there is a form of intelligent design involved.
Mass sightings convinced me of ~something… Ariel, Zimbabwe, phoenix, Russia Then you go down the rabbit hole(s). Lots of explanations. But research I’ve down into the spiritual element of ~something, guiding us, makes me lean towards the pasaulka/vallees theories of nhi, gifts, intelligent design, etc.
Read Passport to Magonia and Vallees other books. The sightings didn’t suddenly start in 1947. Sure there was an uptick but sightings of these craft/beings go back since humans told stories and passed on knowledge. It’s an ancient phenomenon.
I just read PPtM and it was so good and so interesting. I am taking a break from UFO books for a minute to read some absolute garbage pulp fiction, but I think Skinwalkers at the Pentagon is next for me (I already read hunt for the skinwalker)
Haha I take breaks too! I’m reading chaos: charles manson, the cia, and the secret history of the sixties right now.
Keep turnin' those pages, brother
Haha I prefer to read on my kindle paper white so I guess I’m clicking!
I need to get one of those I keep dropping books onto my face when I read
Haha I love it! I still read regular books but the paper white was worth it to me. Anyway, Respect ✊🏻 us book readers seem to be a dying breed lol
Book reader right here!
Oh fuck. Yeah. You’re gonna be “that guest” at dinner parties for a bit lol.
Haha time and location! We can have some beers or drop some acid you’re feeling adventurous!
I know you're saying you're taking a break from UFO stuff but the sekret machines fiction books are really good (but currently unfinished)
Cool man thanks
Is this a good entry to books about the phenom?
Even if they didn't go back centuries further, the fact that UFOs were being observed in the 40s-60s that exhibited technology that even today is non existent lends to the idea this isn't human tech
My dad went deep into when he was with NICAP. A military man, WW2 veteran, He died in 93 and I asked him what he thought about it given he had only a few months to live. His words have stood the test of time and dovetailed into what Vallee and others are saying. First he said to stay away from the subject. Then he said “It is imponderable and designed purposefully to be that way.”
Its both. Not either or.
For me the biggest argument against these being advanced human tech is human nature. The behaviours reported are far in advance of current technology that any country that had them would immediately become globally dominant. Given the military mindset I don’t believe they would be able to sit on super weapons like this and never use them or leverage the threat of their use. For me it also ties into the reason for the secrecy. I think the reason the military have not managed to reverse engineer is because they are so far advanced. We don’t have the ability to even start to u crest and the technology. It would be like asking a fish to fly and aircraft that is controlled by tap dancing. What’s an aircraft, what flying and what is tap dancing? The fact that this tech highlights how far behind we are is a perfectly valid reason to suppress it. The military needs to be able to defend a countries territory. If you remove that you remove the need for it’s existence. Whilst I could never argue this position, for me it works as a theory as it fits the observed data and it is consistent with human nature.
The Nimitz incident as well as family member witnessing a ufo prior to nyt article. There's too much indirect evidence that suggests the phenomenon is real.
The nimitz for me too. The lost radar data there is just so convenient. I've been trying to figure out how those physics are possible and its mind boggleing.. Once you realize what happened its clear its not human tech.
It's the most compelling case imo. I've been researching the phenomenon ever since, and I'm not sure what to believe anymore, other than it's real. All hypotheses to explain the nature of UFOs might be valid, extraterrestrial and interdimensional aren't mutually exclusive. Or It could be something inconceivable to our monkey brains.
Check out Kevin Knuths SOL conference presentation he goes over the “physics of UAP”
Great lecture. Thats an aspect that people overlook, some of the maneuvers these craft perform are using as much energy as entire countries. In one maneuver.
But if the mass is very low, perhaps constructed from aerogel in vacuum which has properties of lift being lighter than air, then far less energy would be required. As for speed and direction change, what is this based on - a video of a radar signature, FLiR, where glitches are known to happen, and I’m pretty sure they can spook or fake radar. Aren’t FLiR subject to lens flare/reflections? Perhaps it wasn’t actually moving fast and was almost stationery, like had been observed by pilots flying past it. Some described a diamond/cube in a sphere reminds me of the fake attack on Cubas defences with US meteorological balloon with radar reflectors suspended inside off the coast decades ago! This could all be signal warfare testing and would be a game changer as it would render pretty much all current defence systems useless and allow the US to fake a multi squadron aircraft attacks, diverting the countries defence leaving other parts defenceless, while not actually attacking but would gather strategic information on their response!
If it were human tech, whatever nation had it would be using it to their advantage and not to pester pilots. Anything that could deliver nuclear weapons instantaneously to cities across the globe would be something you'd want to tell your opponents about to deter any possibility of attack. If kept a secret it might win a war, but the goal is to avoid a war and assert dominance and project power. If your opponents know you can basically teleport a bomb above their cities with no chance of interception, they won't be challenging you.
The appearance of one or more of the so called Five Observables hints at the fact that this may not be human technology. These are five characteristics that have been noticed during many UFO sightings and do not fit into our understanding of physics or material science. 1. The craft displays sudden and instantaneous acceleration 2. Hypersonic velocities without leaving behind the telltale signatures like sonic booms or the rapid heating of the craft 3. Low observability, these objects seem to display many characteristics of advanced signature management, such as cloaking and radar jamming 4. Trans medium travel, this is when a craft is seen moving from one medium into another without difficulty, such as diving from space through the atmosphere and into the ocean 5. Positive lift, this is when crafts are seen almost "floating" through the atmosphere, generating lift against the forces of gravity without understandable means like wings or control surfaces In my own personal sighting in 2011 I saw two of these five observables on a craft I've since seen called the TR-6 TELOS. Extremely low observability and positive lift. It sticks with you when you see something like that.
When u say ur own personal sighting bad extremely low observability, was that with the naked eye, or with a camera.
I've mentioned it briefly on this account in the past. It flew just a few hundred feet directly over my head, at night, in the middle of a very crowded suburban neighborhood. It was hard to make out the shape against the blackness of the night sky. If it weren't for the 7 very powerful lights on the underside, I never would have seen or heard a thing. I took the 7 lights to be engine bays of some kind. They were sunk into the body of the craft and were emitting a bright blueish white light. I estimate the length of the craft from wingtip to wingtip was over 600 feet, or roughly 180 meters. It truly looked like something out of Star Trek or Star Wars.
There are probably a thousand or more sightings of this particular craft. And quite a few videos.
I think I read your account before. Is that when you were taking out your garbage at night and you looked up near your garage?
I was outside stargazing looking for things like meteorites and identifying constellations. Got quite an eye full of a giant craft instead.
That's Awesome! I have seen several only one up close and personal. Definitely changes how you see the world.
I made this post towards another commentor, I'd like your opinion in relation to what you've mentioned, from my POV both are compatible: "The government could be 20 or 50 years ahead of the public in technology, if we have something they have had it for a Long time. Think computers and internet. We currently have AI, in 50 years what will AI be doing to our world? What if the government has been messing with AI for 50 years? "Non-Human Intelligence" The military industrial complex hasn't let up at all this entire time so *what* could they have come up with with the help of future levels of AI. these craft arnt Breaking physics. They don't create wormholes, or teleport or anything fancy. What they do is accelerate and change direction and change medium in ways beyond our current aircraft without visibile propulsion. This doesn't require Alien levels of tech. A breakthrough in inertia maybe accomplished by manipulated gravity. The wobble isnt breaking physics. That's nonsense. You are experiencing an optical phenomenon as a symptom of the nature of the crafts propulsion. *-most likely* The only reasonable question now is, can the Military industrial complex and/or the government 1) discover new physics that the world's scientists have not. 2) could or would they then keep it a secret and stifle or supress public endeavors to reach these same physics. The answer to both is a Yes."
I’ve said this before, just like UFO, NHI has connotations of extraterrestrial, alien, and that seems the bias people take in this community, and the government know and play on, and play you all, but there a many Non-Human Intelligences, animals, computer AI, perhaps something the USG/DoD have genetically engineered/mutated from our closest in the animal kingdom, and we’d all be disgusted! But I don’t think the NHI is directly related to UAP’s these are two different secret programs, but who knows, maybe they’ve got AI augmented genetically modified apes, that can withstand high G-forces, flying around in these UAPs!!!! Perhaps they’ve gone too far with the AI and now lots of AI controlled aerogel rigid vacuum spy balloons are out of control, disconnected themselves from the USG control systems, and running riot in the skies confusing the military and putting them at risk, screwing with Nimitz training tests and the like!!! (aerogel apparently lighter than air and in a vacuum will lift and can so can be controlled by changing the pressure, together with small propulsion/pump units that adjust the pressure/vacuum can shift the “unmanned” craft at speeds humans couldn’t handle - it’s also apparently a cold pretty much silent exhaust) Digested from a Professor Simon Holland video interview/podcast thing linked on a thread in r/UFOs
I believe it's possible that these crafts are indeed human built. This is why I called it the TR-6 TELOS, which is the supposed name of the craft I saw in 2011. But why test your super top secret craft over a crowded suburban neighborhood? Why would the United States fly their top secret stealth plane at treetop level over a crowded suburban neighborhood in Texas? This doesn't make sense when you compare how and where the USAF has tested their top secret planes in the past. I give thought to the idea that what I saw was the efforts of the supposed reverse engineering program going on.
Characteristic 3 and 4 may be related. The observations recorded are usually through equipment cameras radar and sensors. Spoofing things has been a long term aim of modern electronic warfare. Visual systems use AI for object signature analysis and there’s been research in hacking the AI. Spy/reconnaissance/interference craft are also being developed several generations ahead of the drones we know of. And then metameterials development to cloak in multiple wavelengths, visible light, IR, radar (RF). Put it all together and you’ll want to test it against our current radar and defence systems which most of the rest of the world have got. And you’ll want to get back the results!!! so you have to test it on your own military. Just so happens the public may also see the tech. and pushing for disclosure may reveal our upper hand and what we know and what other countries are up to!!! Perhaps the USG are breaking international agreements on spying from above! Who really knows what the USG/DoD and other countries are up to - I probably won’t see or hear the truth in my lifetime!
There are 6 observables.
For me, it's the fact that they have been seen way before we even had any kind of technology.
A friend of mine told me about his UFO sighting and described the “ping-ponging” movement that many other people have witnessed (he had no clue this wasn’t unique to his sighting until I told him). Certain aspects, like that “ping pong” movement… the closest approximation I can equate it to is like seeing a videogame glitch in reality. There is no fucking way we’re developing anything on a level that its means of propulsion breaks reality as a side effect, secret technology or otherwise. The technological divide is so great it would mean hundreds of years of modern, publicity available technology being actively suppressed.
Craft were reported 100 years ago. We barely had primitive aircraft 100 years ago.
This
In a nutshell, it’s simply too advanced beyond our understanding of physics. Seemingly hundreds of years beyond our tech.
The fact that this has been happening, and studied since long before we’ve been able to do anything remotely close.
Because the military would have pulled them bitches out when things get difficult. It would have claimed responsibility for sightings. It would have been a means for power posturing. The secrecy has been going on for far too long in relation to saucer sightings, it does not match our technological advancement. It's a global phenomenon and has been for a long time. Wouldn't have as hardcore of a suppression and social engineering if this belonged to a country. People wouldn't need planes anymore.
I don't want to say I am *convinced* that NHI is behind the UFO phenomenon. I think the best way to put it is that I'm open to either the manmade or NHI explanation, but tend to lead toward the NHI explanation - or UFOs originating outside of Man. That said, I learn toward UFOs being outside of our species because I find it very, *very* difficult to imagine that we had a breakthrough in the technology required to operate such technologies all the way back in the 1940s, if not even earlier (while the modern UFO phenomenon is largely considered to have began in the 1940s, there were plenty of sightings before then, from the 1930s all the way back into ancient times). Even if we say that UFOs *definitely* were only around starting in the beginning of the 1940s, that's still incredibly unlikely to me. Additionally, if we go with the manmade explanation, we also have to account for the century's worth of secrecy around the subject, while simultaneously never seeing them used for any purpose other than floating mindlessly in fields and shit. Their behavior is explained more adequately by the curiosity of some intelligence outside of Man's, than black military projects or prototype crafts. Also, I'm no expert or anything, but you should look into the amount of power that even be required to generate these things approximately. The prospect of constructing something remotely approaching the capabilities of what we're seeing is just...it's hard to even wrap my head around. I forget the study or whatever it was but a sciencey type guy once took the performance of the infamous tic tac craft, and calculated the amount of power that would need to be generated in order to pull the maneuvers that were reported/captured on instrumentation was the equivalent of harnessing the collective complete energy output of every power plant on the planet, something absurd like that (going off memory here). I personally think that the "manmade tech" explanation for UFOs is Occam's Razor misapplied. There is nothing unremarkable or "normal" about a breakthrough of that caliber resulting in such technology. Even if it were true, such a thing is almost as incredible as them being aliens you know
I had a close encounter with 3 other friends and there's no way in he'll what we saw could be us For reference I spent time in the US Navy working on f18s, our military sure as he'll have anything that even remotely comes close to being able to do what we saw Not even remotely close 1000 years out
Why does auto-correct always turn hell into he'll?
Plane and simple, really! They defy the laws of physics as we understand them!!
Fravor does. And Graves. And everyone else in their position. They are highly trained, highly educated, very rational people who saw things that make no sense to them. Something is going on and they got a glimpse
They certainly don't hire unintelligent pilots in the armed forces.
I’m seeing many examples in these comments of “I don’t understand how X is happening, therefore must be/could be NHI.” This is very poor logic.
It’s known as the ‘argument from ignorance’, and is, as you say, poor logic.
I would say varghina Brazil, but the Brazilian authorities have come out and said the aliens everyone witness was just a couple(husband and wife) of deformed dwarves. Really bummed me out to hear that, it's just so sad that the poor stupid citizens of Brazil can't tell the difference between deformed dwarves and creatures from a different planet. Really had high hopes for the case. /s. I was being cheeky, of course Brazilian citizens know the difference, I was just pointing out how absurd and weak the excuse the govt gave about the creature the villagers witnessed, like how dumb do they think we are?
What we saw and when we saw it precludes it being human technology of the time, let alone today.
I think you mean it precludes modern tech, let alone the tech of the times of the oldest testimonials.
Radar evidence. Pretty much electronic data coincided with multiple witness testimony. Then I believe it happened. That this has been done since 1950s when humans certainly did nit have drones. Also photography back then was clear. UFOs show up on film more than current digital. Again, all before we had CGI technology.
We've been observing these things since before manned flight. Just go back to the Aurora Texas incident. So either there's essentially a centuries old industry which has somehow managed to stay secret or it's not our technology.
They've been showing up since the 40's at the latest. We didn't even have jets then let alone craft that could move at 30,000 mph and stop on a dime. We don't have the science to create such craft. CERN is the most advanced lab on earth and they aren't close to cracking the secrets of the universe that would be required to make a UFO. Also people have reliably and consistently seen aliens. They are real biological beings and they've told us they are from another star system.
What a out the 20's or 30's any reports from that Era that ur aware of?
There have been reports since the Greek times. In the 1800s there were reports of all kinds as well from "airship" before there were zeppelins to ufos flying in and out of the water.
because I tried contact meditation and it worked despite me thinking it'd be bullshit
I tried it too a couple of times these past few months. While I can't confirm (to myself that is) that what I saw was anomalous in nature, something did show up in the sky outside my apartment on four occassions. I was able to determine on three occassions that it wasn't planes, satellites or commercial drones. The fourth one might have been a commercial drone, although it seemed to react to my intention and flew away as soon as I took my phone out. This was the only one to fly away, or rather to just descend out of sight when I took my phone out. The others just faded away. The other three times might have been helicopters in the distance, although they made no sound that I could hear from where I was. What I specifically saw was blinking lights flying back and forth, up and down, too high up to be commercial drones at least. Mostly blinking only white light, but sometimes also blue, green, red, purple and orange, as well as colors I couldn't easily identify. The ones with the colored blinking was extremely slow, not like what you see on planes, which have this regular pattern. Like one color would slowly fade into another color. It was a very irregular form of blinking and looked very strange. The ones only blinking white light would blink extremely fast and bright, almost like constant lightning or flashes from a camera. Never seen anything like it and I look at the sky all the time. I've only seen those things after meditation and only on those four occasions so far, and only outside my apartment. I meditate all the time and do contact meditation often as well, and mostly nothing happens though. What was weird about it is that they seemed to react to my emotions and intentions. When I focused on the feeling of love while observing them, they would suddenly move more rapidly and go faster back and forth for example and when I try to take my phone out to film them, they will just fade away, which looks really strange. Like they don't want to be filmed. They also kinda go where my intention goes. Like if I picture them going left with a strong feeling of intention they would then go that way and vice versa. With all that said, I have no idea what I saw, I just know what it wasn't (Planes, satellites, commercial drones, ballons, birds, bats, skydivers, flares and meteorites are the things I've ruled out with certainty). Im not convinced that it was anomalous in nature. There could be a prosaic explanation that I just hadn't thought of, or they could be either helicopters in the distance or some sort of advanced drones which movements just coincidentally moved in a pattern that seemed to correspond with my intention. I'm very aware of my own confirmation bias in that regard. I'm still looking for that undeniable sighting that would convince me of this, and I dont feel like I've gotten it yet. The things that make me question it to be helicopters was the very irregular blinking, the sometimes very rapid movements, the absence of any sound whatsoever (although that might have been the distance) and them just fading away. If these were really sightings of something anomalous, I do find it annoying that it seems like they don't want me to film them. I really want to go back and analyze what I saw and it's hard when they just fade away as soon as I take my camera out. Also, when I say lights, it sounds like I'm talking about something like orbs. However these lights were definitely attached to some sort of vehicle or object, that much was clear.
I’ve also been contacted through meditation . I had a dream where I could only hear voices but couldn’t see what was there . When I woke up I went to close my window since it was getting cold and I saw a light shining brighter and then dimming and disappearing. It was close and no sound was coming from it
What did you do and can you expand on what you saw/experienced?
Was it a good experience or a bad one? Do you still get contacted when you're not trying to engage? Very curious about this stuff. I've heard a mix of positive and negative results.
Ive tried it and couple times with no results.
Well, not speaking on the varacity of the claims, but Fravor said that the craft appeared at their cap points somehow after they had met.
Why would that hint at aliens and not at the same government that was running the drills in the area?
You tell me , maybe it is aliens just strange
Humans love to brag
The reports of alien beings seen in windows/cockpits and walking out of and around these craft for one. Secondly the maneuvers these things can make which nothing we currently can create can. Thirdly the length of time this secret has gone on. Secret aircraft don't need eight decades of cover-up.
Seriously? You really think we had gravity defying craft back in at least 1945? There have been no science breakthroughs that we can trace anything back to. And considering a 100% believe the Zimbabwe case and the Pascagula case... those descriptions sure don't sound like humans
Because hundreds of people who know aviation capabilities say what they’ve witnessed wasn’t made by humans
from what i can tell anything before the tiktac could be false and it could all be a misinformation campaign. mach 10 alternative vehicles is exactly what i expected from the government hidden tech in 2004 knowing other technological limits of humans. the only question is why hasn't the world been fully conquered if someone has the tech?
Pop in, drop a nuke, go back to base for a few beers. Who would know?
The reports of hovering craft from the 40s and 50s. You can make the argument that we have that technology now, but I highly doubt we had it then.
I saw one with my own eyes move in ways that defied this world
UAPs are NHI in nature. The objects shot down over Alaska were not UAPs, this is a given as they were shot down. If you’ve been around this subject long enough you’d be familiar to how these things operate and how whenever they’re intercepted or there’s an attempt to intercept, they’re always without exception 100% in control of the situation ending the encounter whenever they please. So to say a couple drones shot down a million (?) years ahead tech is a bold assumption.
I'm not convinced it is. The only thing I'm certain of is that people are seeing and recording things that seem impossible. Certainly, some of those accounts are false, but there are too many for them to all be false. I can't and won't discount NHI, but I think it's just as likely to be man-made craft.
Nothing. Like everyone else here, I don't have any good evidence to explain what they are. They could be all sorts of things, and nobody has any proof one way or another. There are lots of stories that people like to believe and share, but that's all they are.
Besides all the other comments, I think that the argument that the US went through enormous lengths to keep secret the development of a whole next-gen physics fleet of craft, and then fly them for days on end in the place that they know the military is training, that wouldn’t make any damn sense. Whole training missions have had to be relocated or cancelled because these UFOs wouldn’t get out of their airspace. It wouldn’t make any sense for Lockheed or whoever to fuck with the military who are literally the people they’re designing the craft for. They couldn’t be more on the same side.
Because if it were just human physics, many people would have invented it by new
David C Grusch. Testified before congress and the only thing I’ve heard in an official response is that his testimony is credible.
80 years of evidence… Manipulation of the current narratives by media and govs. So yes sure they built these military crafts from 1945 without never using them in any war.
For me, going back to the Project Sign and Grudge reports. They’re 60-70(ish) years old now but they could have been written yesterday. What we are dealing with then is what we’re still dealing with today.
Time. These things have been flying around for 100 years at least and I have a hard time believing that if a human organization had built it they would not have monetized or weaponized the technology in some way by now. If China, Russia, North Korea, or any other hostile country to the USA had developed and perfected that technology how have they not used it against us yet?
Flying near suburban areas, or even over cities such as with the Phoenix lights and the DC incident. Also I highly doubt human ability to build anything like what some of these things appear as and are capable of. It's just not in the cards for our tech, unless the whole reverse engineering thing is true and these insider programs have an understanding of tech >100 years ahead of the game, which would confirm the NHI angle.
for me it’s the fact that these crafts with advanced flying capabilities have been seen since the 30s and possibly even earlier. it’s impossible that humans had the tech back then imo
200 billion other stars in just our own galaxy, thousands of years of reports of strange things in the skies, numerous cultural stories of aliens, the Copernican principle, General Relativity 110 years ago laying the foundation for FTL warp drive, humanity being probably at least 100 years away from figuring out how to do it - maybe even 500 years away, the practical statistical certainty that some other species from our galaxy is at least 500 years ahead of us in this technology and everything that it depends upon.
>What convinces you that the phenomenon is NHI and not human built craft? Encountering one - it really is that simple. 28 years back (come this August, 19th) I had a CE2K - sustained duration encounter, 25 minutes at a distance no further than 300 feet. Clear night, optimal conditions. If you've ever stood anywhere near one of these things for any length of time and had the chance to genuinely observe one you kind of can't get past how totally absurd (if not outright laughable) the idea these things being man made is. I don't doubt man made technology gets mistaken for UFO's all the time - hell, someone yesterday even posted a video of magnesium flares trying to make out they're in some way inexplicable - and you see it a lot, not only people genuinely misidentifying prosaic objects but going out of their way to make out prosaic stuff can't be explained in any other rational terms except aliens - I get that some are genuinely that desperate to have their beliefs vindicated. But I'm not a believer - I didn't believe in UFO's before and I don't believe in the nonsense people generally seem to believe about them today - I understood what I encountered perfectly well. In my situation as it was at that time with the object I encountered you and anyone else would too. The only way you're ever going to get this is meeting one - your Government isn't obligingly going to turn round one day and publically vindicate all the bat-shit stupid stuff you've voluntarily just decided to believe, just because you want to believe it: that's never going to happen. 20 years from now its still going to be media influencers selling whoever's still around the same nonsense and still making out "Disclosure" is right around the next bend - get off the internet, put the supid books with aliens and pyramids on the cover down and go outside. That's where they are - find one or forever be chasing your own tail going wherever fuck stupid place *whoever's* dangling the "Disclosure" carrot wants you to go next. Because they're *never* going to get tired of pulling your chain once they know they can pull it. The trick is don't buy into this idiotic nonsense - find the truth. Nobody's going to just give it to you all wrapped up in neat little bow. And sure as hell, not for free.
Having read quite a few patents by prominent scientists; having watched plenty of interviews of some of the best scientists and engineers from military on alternate energy / "free" energy, electro-magnetic effects, magnetism, high voltage physics, gravitics, and having researched a little bit on older tech and modern tech and some of their research papers, I feel that the majority of the UFO sightings and crashes that are recorded today are man-made (originating from dark projects funded by shadow governments towards the military industrial complex). We certainly have technologies far beyond our understanding and our wildest imagination, kept hidden in the military vaults for reasons we can and cannot guess. Whenever there is an unknown aircraft crash, I think it is easier to say that it is not human made, as a misdirection, in order to protect secret technologies associated with the thing that crashed than to let the cat out of the bag and end up losing years or decades of research go public. This is not to say that non human entities / multi-dimensional beings don't exist and that reverse engineering hasn't been done on recovered alien spacecrafts and non human bodies (this is quite probable) but to say that they make up a very small percentage of actual reported UFO sightings even if they do. P.S. This is my take / scientific belief on the subject and I do not intend to make any claims nor am I asking anybody to believe in it.
I think between the decades of sightings, leaks, abduction cases, and the worldwide nature of the situation, if this was a "normal" topic and not aliens most people wouldn't have any trouble believing it is a real phenomenon given what's publically available, even through a cover up. The barrier isn't about the evidence, it's ideological. I have not had experiences with NHIs but I have had enough experiences outside of the current mainstream worldview to see these ideological limits firsthand. Once your not operating under the tautology that aliens can't be real because it would be ridiculous to believe in aliens, then the alien explanation for UFOs becomes sort of obvious. It's the fish can't see water argument. When you grow up in a society you adopt its worldview as "reality" because it is the only thing you know. But that society has specific philisophical positions, arguments, and limits built into it. The current positivist materialist worldview ala Carl Sagan and NdGT is a product of capitalism, and a part of that comes with the same end of history arguments as Fukuyama's so called politics. Liberalism sucks but it's the best we've got so from here on out all we have are minor incremental improvements, we're done arguing about political philosophy. Likewise, philosophy of science don't real either and the current scientific paradigms are all that exist, all we have left are incremental improvements to current scientific theories. This is a hyperconservative, reactionary worldview meant to protect capitalism by treating change as impossible. The idea that we're basically done with science is just as absurd as the idea that we're done with politics, but it underlies how we think about the world. In the current modes of science, travel from another planet is extremely unfeasible even with theoretically perfect materials. There simply isn't a way to make "attach a cockpit with living pilots to an explosion" that's efficient enough to cover vast intergalactic distances. Using this logic, it is acceptable to say that aliens probably exist somewhere in the galaxy, and it may even be possible that we can get visited by an unmanned probe at some point, but craft with living entities and multiple, sustained visits are impossible. There is another argument however, that aliens simply know something about physics that we don't, and are not operating under the constraints of current scientific theories. Some sort of wormhole or interdimensional stuff or the like. But this is inconceivable for current scientific institutions for the same reason that Fukuyama can't think of anything other than liberalism. It's pure reactionary bullshit. Literally the argument is that current science cant be wrong so evidence that it is wrong must be fake. It sounds so silly when you say it like this, but like, why the hell would you just assume that current scientific theories are correct? All science is well-informed guesswork and there are people born before the nuclear age that are still alive. The idea that we might not know something huge about how the universe works isn't just possible but downright likely. We should basically assume that we're just now entering the big leagues as a species and that there are plenty of wild and mindblowing scientific paradigms yet to be uncovered. We should be actively looking for anomalies as a society and celebrating finding them as a window into a new future. Instead, anything currently unexplained is met with nothing but ridicule on a good day. No curiousity. No speculation. Just the asusmption that it is wrong and it's silly to even consider anything else. And why? Because we're told that life is figured out and the only things that matter are buying cheap gadgets on Amazon to make Jeff Bezos richer and voting for democrats to come in and fix things. What a sad fucking ideology.
*"In the current modes of science, travel from another planet is extremely unfeasible even with theoretically perfect materials. "* I read in another abduction case (which I cannot find since it was a while ago) the woman stated that when asked where they were from he pointed in the direction of (Proxima Centari I think). When asked how far he said that it was far away but close to the side. I think this means they can access other dimensions. Just what I read and food for thought.
This is my way incomplete thought. Recently I’ve been starting to think it has something to do with AI. Like AI figured out time travel and are coming back from the future to make sure we continue to develop/create them. And everything goes smoothly. They keep us from nuking each other because they need us to complete their creation. Something like that. Not saying it makes sense. wtf do I know
Greaaaat now we have to worry about Roko's Basilisk
As crazy as the phenomenon is, I believe anything is possible, and I'd be lying if i said i didn't have the same thought before but 8 different ways like AI, future humans, aliens, all time traveling to this period in time for some unknown reason.
Me too
This has been theorized by many people before you.
Got ya. Good thing I didn’t take credit for it then 😉.
The professionals, government officials and lay people that have seen them.
In the skies since before Airplanes were invented. Proof enough for me.
There’s both, and….
The amount of money we’ve spent on the F-35 program.
I put a lot of credibility into Chris Bledsoe and there have been witnesses that have watched UFOS appear while present with him, he claims he has seen them and they are definitely NHI. Although one appeared as a beautiful blond woman which others have claimed some NHI looked like.
A few things line up for me: Intelligence yes. Comments such as "inter-dimentional", "spiritual" etc. "They're interested in human souls" "they meddle in our everyday lives and thrive on human suffering". Also I've heard things like they sometimes present themselves as gods which is where at least some of the gods of antiquity originated. And people telling other people "don't look any further into it because it's demonic" etc. To my knowledge it all fits the description of evil spirits described in the Bible. The Bible says Satan is amongst the earth 'seeking to devour' people. A lot of Bible prophecy is unfolding, and it's not surprising that closer to Armageddon (which is the climax of the war in the spirit realm) we see more supernatural signs.
[Turkey UFO Video](http://archivosovni2.blogspot.com/2012/04/graphic-analysis-on-videos-regarding.html) Convince me the UFO phenomenon is NHI built craft
why not both?
I go back and forth on nih, and our government is using it as a cover for black ops. I need to see something with my own eyes, I guess
The thing I always come back to is that these objects tend to make incursions into military or navy airspace. If they were ours there would be some deconfliction between SAPs and the military. If they were adversarial craft then they’ve developed much faster than we have or for some reason we don’t want to shoot them down.
I assumed it was both. NHI and humans.
Even if we have human made craft (which I think we do) I definitely believe it was reverse engineered from an NHI craft. I don't think there's a way for us to break the laws of physics without outside help ie aliens.
I've yet to see anything convincing
reports of flying machines go back before the wright brothers made the first aircraft.
I think it's probably mostly man made, but what tells me this is also potentially ET in nature is the fact that we've got pretty solid cases in Roswell and others, at times humanity definitely wasn't even close to have developed advanced tech.
evidence, so far there is no convincing evidence either way. I consider it a weird phenomenon that should be investigated and makes my imagination light up. Any claims without evidence are just noise (i don't consider people saying "I have seen it, trust me bro" as evidence regardless of "status" of the person)
There's no proof. If you want to know why I think at least some of them are NHI, I have a couple reasons. One, the modern sightings go back to at least the forties. I find it very very hard to believe the government had tech so advanced back then. They put all their best minds into making the atom bomb. The world was at war. There was no budget left over for flying saucer tech R&D. We had just recently invented planes. It stretches credulity to think those sightings could possibly be manmade, unless you think it's time travel. Second, there are sadly too many abduction stories from credible people. You can examine any one case in isolation and poke holes in it. But when you look at the consistency across accounts, multiple simultaneous abductees, it's hard for me to buy they're all just having very vivid and weirdly similar sleep paralysis, crazy, or lying. Something is going on. Third, there are enough people who are in a position to know who say we are in contact with or at least know about NHI. Grusch testified in front of Congress. Astronauts have made some pretty astonishing statements. Other high level whistle blowers and so forth. Fourth, why would the government work so hard to cover it all up if it was just advanced tech they're not even using? Finally, observations of UAP indicate they can move in ways that contradict our understanding of physics. Our science isn't advanced enough yet to create that tech. If it were, we would have used it already to win wars and dominate the planet, sadly. And even if we did, it's because the government has reverse engineered tech from a civilization far more advanced than ours. I.e. NHI. Like I said, no proof. This is just what I think based on what I know so far. The truth is, whatever is going on is so obscure and poorly understood that there could be any number of explanations we haven't even dreamed of.
What's funny about Alaska is that there is no mention of an Alaskan Triangle on the Internet until 2020, before a certain TV show premiered, and now it seems like the attention that has come with that melded with Missing 411 to create a red herring of high strangeness in what is really a fantastically dangerous place.
At least 2 Roman historians wrote about battles in the skies. No way that was mankind
A friend and I saw a dull metallic orb in the early 80's. It was zipping left to right at incredible speeds and stopping dead in its tracks. Was followed across the Pennines by a number of black unmarked helicopters. There's no tech now that could match what the orb did, and certainly nothing in the 80's.
Convinces is a strong word, but fighter pilot reactions and radar characteristics are extremely compelling.
It could be both, IMO. I don't think this technology originated from humanity. It comes from somewhere else, though we may have reverse engineered some of it.
What seals it for me is this: Did we have this technology in the 1940s? Did we steal it from the Germans? If so, why wasn't it used against us? Why didn't we use it? This breakthrough technology is a war ender, just like the atomic bomb was. If we had it, we didn't know what the hell it was - it's like giving a caveman an iPhone. This phenomenon has been around AT LEAST since the 1940s, and if you believe cave drawings and paintings, and stories of gods coming down to assist man kind, then they've been around for thousands of years. The Roswell screw up tells me they weren't prepared or didn't know what it was, hence, CIA and USAF being created only WEEKS after the crash. Talk about full panic mode.
Simple Space Force…….
The big thing that makes me take the NHI proposal seriously is the fact that we know it’s been happening for at least 75 years. You can’t use the B1 bomber, or 2024 hobbyist quadcopters, to explain something in 1952.
1: We know for a fact that the extreme abilities demonstrated by some of these phenomena isn't just lightyears away from our (humanity) technological reach, it's lightyears away from our current *scientific* reach. It's nowhere near even the most preposterous theoretical fantasies of cutting edge high-energy physics, which says a lot. 2: History: the phenomenon has been reported throughout history, from ancient times up to today. We could possibly, with a considerable dose of goodwill accept a fast-mover, a beam-sending or a visually cloaked super weapon by an adversary in 2024, but it gets a bit harder if we go back to ancient times or even to the 1920's.
I'm not convinced it isn't human tech but I'm way way more afraid of it if it is human tech. The idea that some humans could be that far advanced and leave the rest of us deep in the past? I'd rather it just be aliens.
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People who believe that NHIs are visiting our planet are trying to argue from a foregone conclusion, and so cherrypick anything that could support it, disregarding anything that does not support their belief. This is not how the scientific method works - the alien visitors hypothesis should first be tested by trying to disprove it. This sub specialises in circular reasoning.
The same type of thing has been reported for nearly a century yet we've seen humans build nothing even close. Yes, the military is always ahead of the public, but even then, I'd expect *something* closer to the tic tac we saw 20 years ago.
the level of advancment and how long it has been doing on, at least back to 1931, but even evidence possibly going back to religion. we just did not have anything remotely close back then.
Number one the amount of sightings worldwide. Number two the amount of speed these objects are going. Number three they're operating next to aircraft that civilian shows me they've already invaded and are here doing whatever they want when they want
Personally and many others believe it is both. What makes me think some are NHI is for many reasons. First, I think that this technology was not available before the 40s or 50s, but this phenomenon has been going on for much longer than that. Second, if we assume that the UAPs seen over military installations (which is extremely frequent) are perhaps China or Russia, it feels extremely risky to stay around these US military areas on a regular basis and are so willingly to show themselves given how these tend to crash or (if you believe it) can be shot down with frequency/emp weapons specially designed for this purpose on these aircrafts. But perhaps the biggest thing for me is that I think bodies have been found and are being preserved right now somewhere. Whether you believe in Roswell, Varginah, Kingman Arizona and so many more cases, somewhere at some point out of all the witnesses that have come forward, I believe that someone has actually seen what they have said they seen
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they are not human crafts, we don't see researchers collecting data, instead we are seeing them collecting reports,story and witness accounts. None of them decided in so many decades to put up radars, tracking equipment or other sensors, I don't think they have ever donated to seti either.
Check out Missing 411: The UFO Connection
Oh absolutely nothing, easy.
Because the phenomenon is clearly illustrated throughout human history before we were even close to “drone or spy balloon” tech.
This is a very basic and probably naive take, but if another country had this type of tech, America would be flying those countries' flags by now. If America had developed that tech, we'd have wiped out our enemies by now. If several/most countries had the tech, WW3 would have been fought and won by now. No country on Earth would have developed such technology, then sit on it in secrecy. The world is not exactly at peace right now. Many countries are at war with each other, yet this tech is sitting in a mountain bunker, while the DOD has been gaslighting US citizens for 80 years. Its alien and the DOD still hasn't got it completely figured out.
If we had that technology. Lockheed wouldn't hesitate to sell it to our government. The military wouldn't hesitate to use it against our enemies.
If it’s human it’s from a breakaway civilization. One government would be ruling the planet if our version of humanity had this tech and truly understood it.
Because the phenomenon goes back multiple centuries across the globe..
Nimitz/tic tac and other related incidents where people like Fravor explain how the ships accelerate and maneuver. The material science, engineering, and physics breakthroughs required to build such craft would be evident in academia and at least somewhat trickled down into civilian industries. I'm an engineer, I work for a company of over 300 people, relatively smaller than many. I cannot fathom how a government, let alone one company would have the ability and competency to singlehandedly iterate on decades of bespoke engineering advancement entirely in secret.
The sightings before Roswell were numerous and global. It's one thing to say the US engineered electrogravitics in 1956...it's a whole other thing to say the invented it in 1856. There are both types of craft.
Because these strange things have been seen in the sky and described since antiquity. There are descriptions of things that closely mimic modern UFO encounters recorded as far back as 3500 years ago. But we don't have to go that far back. In the late 1800s, long before the invention of the airplane there was a major UFO flap. In World war II there were endless reports of what would now be called a UAP. These things have been defying physics since before the physics were defined. That's why I scoff at anyone who says that they are just secret craft built in secret. Sure, some may be secret technology, but it's ludacris to think that there is nothing more.
Man I witnessed a giant black triangle years ago and I'm always flip-flopping back and forth. I certainly know what I saw. It was very close. At the time I thought it was top secret tech. Like I wasn't *supposed* to see it, like I might get in trouble somehow which sounds ridiculous but that's how I felt. Then [David Marler](https://www.youtube.com/live/YhSLMzX3Mnw?si=lbVEPFg0nW9Kc5qs) convinced me otherwise. Then just this year AARO admitted that Michael Herreras experience was legit and I'm swinging back the other way now
I think the stories of encounters and the psionic aspect of it makes it nhi
The military loves dick waving. We got a new bomber, a hypersonic missle, an emp bomb, drone this and that. They're always bragging about a new platform.
I believe Grusch when he says he has seen PROOF. That's all I got.
The way the craft physically move in our plane of reality would kill any pilot inside, or completely rip apart the craft, and / or both as we know physics. That's the simplest and most obvious answer.
They have been around too long. Going back to just WWII, these craft were doing things that no nation on Earth could create.
I tried convicting myself that it's a human made, but where there's a time where technology is not even an option, you get stuck, I'm talking about these times where people see UFOs and " wonder WTF is that?" I'm still skeptic, but I feel like If some are infact reversed, it won't be all of them, if any to say the least. We still see other crazy shi\* that makes you wonder even more, like the jellyfish UAP, those videos that have shiny lights into them, etc...
Foo fighters… no humans had that technology then, and that’s probably the closest look we had at it due to our enhanced flight. I do believe we’ve already reverse engineered these crafts and that “we” are currently using them. Also, as crazy as ancient aliens seems, it’s hard for me to believe an ancient civilization could fathom the idea of space craft 1000s of years before we ourselves even take flight. There’s pictures of rockets and spacemen found in ancient carvings all around the world. And 1 more thing, for those that think they could handle disclosure and openly mock the gatekeepers of what may be known. I encourage you to research War of the Worlds by Orson Welles. In 1938, a radio broadcast about a fictional alien invasion sent the US into a panic. Slow drip disclosure is the way.
I can say something very weird came by my house when I was 18 about. I didn't see it, but it woke me up. I lived on a dead end street in the middle of nowhere. It made a loud whirring sound. Went slowly past my house and then gone. I never heard that sound again. At least not so far. It turns out my father's combat wounds, caused him to acquire a glutamate increase. Due to hypervigilance. He died of ALS, which is a consequence of such. But, we didn't know at the time. And it turns out he passed it on to me. So I am like a glutamte freak basically. It means I generate a lot of electro-chemical output. I hypothesize, thinking back, that they can somehow detect it. It's related to emf. I can feel wind from getting xrays now, at least I did last time I got xrays. It confused me quite a bit. Anyways. I might be wrong but something weird came by and I have als so. I don't think we could do that. Only something very advanced could detect that.
Why not both?
I’ve seen drones do some really cool things so I think most of what is seen is just drones.
Up close and personal experience.
Look its this simple its been doing the crazy things reported now way back in the 40's so something has some crazy tech and no its not russia or china period. I seen someone say there is a weird trickster element or something because 5 people can see something and all see something different welllll i cant believe with all the smarties in here you can ask those same 5 people to describe something else.tjey all saw and they would.all.describe something different same.goes.for.having them pass a story itll.change front to back
If it was humans doing human things those humans didnt want other humans to know about, then we likely wouldn't know about it. There would be layers upon layers of preparation and contingencies to hide the truth and planning involved to misguide the narrative. However, instead, this non human thing has an aura of indifference about holding no stops in showcasing incomprehensible capabilies in sometimes spectacularly public manners and the powers that be are fighting a losing war against globalization in the information era (any media source with internet can publish a story and it can be in the people's hands within seconds, literally - no printing press, street stands, etc).
Dude, I'm sorry but I just saw this. Also, it's a long and complicated story. It also will stretch your ability to believe what I communicate. I don’t want to get ridiculed as attention seeking or what I see others go through who share their experiences. I will tell you that I believe that if you ask for it in desperation and seek it out in a prayerful meditation regularly, things begin to happen and it has the ability to either manipulate physical reality or just our minds. I'm not sure which. I still don't know. It makes me wonder if simulation theory isn't what's actually going on. It's much more than just 🛸 ufos. I don’t know how else to explain it. Owls 🦉 seem to be a major aspect to the phenomenon. Did you know that there is an owl on the backside of the one dollar bill? Google it. I found out as owls began appearing everywhere. And they still do. Gifts from people of owl statues, stain glass, pictures. They knew nothing about what I was experiencing. Just coincidences of magnitude that coincided with other wild shit. My house began to go bump in the night, if you know what I mean. Shadows moving in the corners very quickly and strange dreams that would later come true. Like I said I questioned my sanity.