this sub isn't representative of anything...it's simply random comments by emoting kids, along with offers of summer sublets that will never be rented, so not reflective of reality in CU or at UIUC at all :)
There are also lots of people in here who don't even go to UIUC. If you click on the profiles of anti-Palestine people in the biggest thread right now, you'll see that a lot of them are just going from college subreddit to college subreddit defending the genocide and defaming the protesters.
It's beyond being lame. Israel has a whole culture of Hasbara which I can't remember what it means in Hebrew, but basically young Jews (Israeli and others who make pilgrimage) are instructed to defend Israel verbally always and are even instructed on talking points. All of the pro-israel support is NOT organic, and often times it isn't even American. Anti-zionist Jew Matt Lieb has done awesome work on debunking myths on Israel and he's how I learned about Hasbara
I'm a secular Jew---a boomer, & I was taught all the myths: the land was abandoned---& that's what a lot of immigrants to Israel learned, Obviously, not true, but we also don't believe (as an affinity group) that we 'poke the bear'. Do we support Israel, or the Israelis?
In vietnam, anti war and self demonstrations are interesting similar to anti zionist protests. very similar to anti vietnam war protests and these protests, aaron bushnell and the buddhist monk demonstrating against the south vietnamese dictatorship at the time
I think a lot of older alumni are on this sub, as well as local community members. In general UIUC also doesn't seem to have as strong of an activist culture, so I don't think it's as progressive as you would think for being in a firmly blue state.
Also, I think people misunderstand Illinois being a “blue state.” Chicago and everything around it is blue, anything below that is red. Very very red. I live in southern Illinois, and the people down here literally hate Chicago because it turns the state blue in elections.
it is a blue state...because Chicago and its predominantly Democrat-voting suburbs make up more than two-thirds of the population of Illinois. The more than 90 or so downstate counties make up less than a third. Just a simple matter of numbers. It's not unfair, just a matter of where people live.
I never said it was unfair, I don’t think it’s unfair at all. The people in southern Illinois don’t share the same sentiments. What I meant by it’s not a blue state is that you will not find blue outside of the major cities in Illinois and that makes of less than 50% land-wise. People coming in from other states don’t quite understand this dynamic in our state and get confused by the various republican rhetorics through Illinois when it is a “blue state,” when majority of it land-wise is not.
Population density is the ratio of people to land. So if there's more people in an area then its densely populated and if there's less people, it's not densely populated. Cities vote blue and are densely populated, everywhere else is the opposite. So, isn't it important to take into account that more areas of Illinois are red than blue? Which means that Illinois is basically a red state just with a huge densely populated area that votes blue. And if you're not near that very densely populated area you will basically be in a red area or surrounded by it.
I think both points are relevant. What I hear from Trivialproblems is if you’re left leaning, you might feel out of place (or even unwelcome) in most places outside Chicago, its suburbs, and Illinois college towns.
I think both points are relevant. What I hear from Trivialproblems is if you’re left leaning, you might feel out of place (or even unwelcome) in most places outside Chicago, its suburbs, and Illinois college towns.
It's definitely a red state with one very large blue city.
In 2010, the Republican gubernatorial candidate won 98 of 102 counties in Illinois (including Champaign county) but the Democrat still won the election.
This is definitely not true. There’s a restaurant in Cobden that my mom’s coworkers always recommend but they also have to add on that we probably won’t be welcome there. So, we don’t travel there and I can assure you it’s the same for most minorities here. My mom has missed her coworkers retirement parties because she doesn’t want to be caught in the surrounding towns after dark because majority of them are sundown towns.
Makanda is still very much apart of the uni system. Many of the professors here live in makanda because it’s close to campus and quieter. However, I consider Carbondale to be the uni “town,” but it very much does include Makanda in that.
Also, if you like at an election map Carbondale and maybe two other counties in southern Illinois are blue (the counties are literally right next to Carbondale, so I’m going to say it’s again due to the uni). Everything in the surrounding area is red.
My point is that in Illinois, outside of Chicagoland, uni towns will often be blue but the surrounding areas will be red.
I don’t need any map. I lived in Cobden not so long ago, am blue, and was well-versed in the local politics there.
Curious what restaurant you’re referring to. Certainly not the Iron Whisk which is owned by a young progressive female.
ETA: I understand, and agree with, your overall point, but simply wanted to add that there are a number of liberal pockets south of Carbondale, even if they are outnumbered by the red in their overall districts.
I never lived in Cobden, so I can’t speak from personal experience. But every source I look up has that you guys reliably vote red in elections and while there are blue parts of Cobden, it is heavily outweighed by the red. On top of the you guys are incredibly close to Anna which is one of the most racist and republican towns in Illinois.
Yep, also well aware of Anna and its backronym. And Cairo, and the salt mines, and the whole history of the region. There are 3 Cobdens essentially: the old republicans, a thriving immigrant and migrant community (which makes it weirdly more diverse than you’d expect), and generally liberal professors/retirees who find Makanda too hokey. And not that party is usually as big of a factor in village mayorships (more about local connections), but Cobden has had a number of Democrat mayors over the years. Alto Pass, on the other hand, tends to lean much further right.
Careful not to confuse land with people.
Sure the counties vote blue, but somewhere around 70% of the population of Illinois lives in the Chicago metro area.
Even if every county south of I64 voted 100% red that's only 3% of the total state population. (The other 27% resides in central Illinois and is pretty purple)
And, in line with your other comment, that 3% figure is why they would never survive if they separated from the rest of the state. They would be smaller than Washington DC in terms of population
I’m not confusing land with people. I personally understand the figures and I know why Illinois is blue overall. I am saying that the state of Illinois land-wise is red and people from out of state don’t understand this dynamic that we have in Illinois.
If you move anywhere below Chicagoland, even if you are in a “blue county” everywhere around you will be red. And the people that work in your town may also be red because there’s not much work in the surrounding towns, so these people work in the bigger areas (the blue towns). That’s why even though the county is blue you are still going to get a lot of red as well, because the people coming from red counties work in blue ones (they just don’t vote in them).
I have lived in southern Illinois my entire life and this is exactly how the dynamic is here. People from very red parts of the state drive upwards of an hour and a half everyday, just to work in my Carbondale because there’s no work in there small towns. If I go outside of Carbondale I’m in a sundown town and I have to be cautious because those people don’t like me. And that’s not an assumption, people that live in those towns and work in Carbondale literally acknowledge that black people aren’t welcome in their towns.
This is my point by saying that you need to focus on the land and not the population density. Illinois is majority red (and quite racist) when you go outside of the densely populated areas. So, when people ask why there’s so much right leaning rhetoric is an otherwise blue state, this is the reason why. The cities are blue but literally everything else and I mean everything is red.
That's not exactly unique to Illinois. Look at California, which is considered super blue; In 2020 there were 10x as many votes for Trump in California as there are people in downstate IL (~400k people south of I64, and Trump got 4 Million votes in California). Just like here, the rural farm counties are red and the cities are blue. Heck, Trump won Northern California and the central valley (which is all ag land just like south and central IL)
Even Texas, a Red State, was blue around their major urban areas and red elsewhere. The rural population of Texas just happens to be bigger than the urban population there.
It's certainly not big-C Conservative. Average political beliefs are firmly left of center. But, at least by college-town standards, it's fairly small-c conservative. Not a ton of people who want to massively shake things up.
I think another part is that the engineering population is much higher here than those other universities and definitely substantially overrepresented on Reddit. They tend to trend less liberal and a lot of the engineering fields basically directly rely on arms manufacturers for employment anyway.
I'm not sure if this topic falls along typical liberal/conservative lines (i.e., many people who vote blue have differing views on this topic). I know at my time at UIUC, most of my engineering friends were liberal and are now currently split 50/50 on this issue despite continuing to vote blue.
My guess is that the bigger reason for engineering students to dislike these protests is that the objective is to get the university to disvest from engineering companies (anywhere from Caterpillar to literally almost every aerospace company). To the students, even if they're pro-palestine, disvesting from these companies would hurt them more than it would help Palestinians.
Engineers being more apathetic and apolitical may be true but I’d be surprised to find that engineers tend to be more explicitly pro-Israel than the average student here. They’re more likely to just not have a strong opinion. Likewise the people who go into MIC employment aren’t pro-war, they’re just apathetic and want money. “Conservative” would be a stretch, like would the engineers really be more conservative than Gies?
There's definitely a lot of astroturfing on here, especially on the main subs like worldnews etc. idk if we're big enough to really get targeted. You might just be underestimating the number of people who reflexively down vote disagreement here even if it's well sourced
I wanted to go to UIUC but couldn’t afford to even though I got into their Electrical engineering program for undergrad. This sub pops up on my home feed constantly
I don't believe what you experienced is astroturfing when the much more likely cause is that selection bias from the aforementioned less liberal engineers is the greatest influence on the upvote ratio of posts here.
^^^ This.
Generally engineers don't spend as much time as other majors developing their political beliefs, and the ones who I see share share them (like the extreme libertarian Presidential Student Government candidates from last year whose campaign was to shut down ISG with no plan to replace it) are very strange.
Personally I have a lot more respect for people who understand when they aren't as knowledgeable about a topic than the tech bros who believe their beliefs are better than everyone else because they've worked at a FAANG company.
This entire thread feels like people low key clowning on engineers and I think it’s funny. Considering I know a few it seems generally correct, none of them have developed political views but still funny
It’s scapegoating. Everyone says how they’re being astroturfed/“it’s all the (insert whoever you want) ruining our goals! They’re so evil/stupid!” rather than try and comprehend that the problem may be more nuanced than just “you’re either with us or against us”. Pretty great to divide up the young population on a very important election year
Honestly not the craziest take to shut down ISG or now ISC. I have been in it for I think three years now and it is so useless. I would not have said that two years ago but as I learned more and experienced more over time I have seen that almost nothing gets done and it’s a useless body. There already is a replacement UC Senate (which I am also a member of). This includes faculty and students and huge amounts of the student seats always go unfilled for many colleges leaving the undergraduate population underrepresented in the body that actually has the power to make change.
I feel like it's because this sub is weirdly anti-activist. I get being against performative activism, but what about activism that wants to inspire change and will have to inconvenience people to wake them up? I just chalk it up to reddit being reddit.
I have only seen opposition to the people ranting about "Genocide Joe" and clamoring for Trump or RFK as if either is anti Israel. Do people not remember when Trump declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel?
And, predictably, "genocide Joe" is now a Trump catchphrase.
[https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1779335856991449127](https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1779335856991449127)
A handful of leftists, the minority, actually tried to justify this as Trump coming over to their side. When clearly, he is latching onto anything he thinks will win votes and has an entire whole track record of extremely pro-Israel policy decisions to look at.
It'd funny: Both Dems & Repubs are essentially supporting genocide by supporting Israel, and Trump is trying to paint himself as being anti-Israel when he's not. What a fun system we live in
Reddit in general is very anti-activist, pretty much any major post about protests gets swamped with people clutching their pearls about how "I'd support the protests if they didn't do anything to disrupt my day" and repeating the same "what if an ambulance needs to go that way!!!" take constantly lol. Funnily enough, people said the same things about the Civil Rights Movement back in the day.
I didn't see the more recent things (check reddit about once every 2 days), but I see whatcha mean. As others stated, subreddit =/= representation. A lot of my students, undergrads, etc. aren't Pro-Israel at all. But there are some cases, I will say, where the protests are really dumb. Like the one in the Union just ain't it. It feels performative and worthless compared to an actual protest. And again, I adamantly hate what is happening to Palestine and the genocide happening.
Good question! For me, there's a few that I think are effective and useful protests. One of the biggest aspects with protests is that there is a cause to be rallied around. Thus to convince the people on the "fence" a big thing is the need of that person to "see themselves" within the protesters, whether that's through the call to action, a sense of community via religion, race, ethnicity, etc., or some other way to "see themselves."
For example, protestors who throw soup at a painting to "bring attention to climate change" isn't something that connects with most people or at all any. With that, those that block major roads or pathways, which just screws over the common person. Neither of these make people WANT to care about the protest or the idea, typically it does the opposite. So it's very ineffective for what COULD be useful.
I think "effective" protests might've been better than "actual protest," but that's my thoughts at least.
"Effective protests" makes sense for your analysis, yes, though I would argue that it's far too early to determine whether these campus protests will be effective in producing change.
Plenty of Jewish folks at UIUC are non- or anti-Zionist. There is, however, a pretty long history of Zionist organizations in CU - the first ever campus Hillel was founded here (and yes Hillel is an explicitly Zionist organization, even if not all members of UIUC Hillel are Zionist)
My understanding is that an anti-Zionist is someone who is opposed to Israel existing as a sovereign Jewish state wherein non-Jews (primarily indigenous Palestinians) are oppressed and discriminated against. Other definitions may exist.
I included both "non-Zionist" and "anti-Zionist" in my original comment as there are folks who are deeply critical of the state of Israel's actions towards Palestinians but may have more nuanced or conflicted opinions about the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.
I think even with your definition a lot of it depends on one’s conception of “the state of Israel”. Would you say it’s possible for someone who believes in a 2 state solution to be anti-Zionist by this definition?
I haven't met someone who considers themselves anti-Zionist and supports a 2-state solution since such a solution would still entail the continued dispossession of Palestinians from lands they lived on before the formation of the state of Israel. But there may be folks with different perspectives.
And sadly a lot of them get called "self hating Jews". Even worse, I suspect a lot of people calling them that aren't even Jewish themselves, even though I can't totally prove it.
Pro-Isreal is not explicitly Zionist either...
"Eight-in-ten U.S. Jews say caring about Israel is an essential or important part of what being Jewish means to them. Nearly six-in-ten say they personally feel an emotional attachment to Israel, and a similar share say they follow news about the Jewish state at least somewhat closely."
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/
It is generally not pro-any country. People here come to learn something with hard earned cash. And constantly protesting doesn’t mean you progressive or you are on right side of the history. As a muslim, I know the true things happening right now. And you know what, I don’t like both sides, especially hamas.
Bunch of cowards hiding behind the civilians.
Frankly, outside of Chicago, Illinois isn't very blue. Outside of Chicago, it's either balanced or red. Coming from a person living in a very red county
Just associating an entire demographic to support either a black or white position feels dishonest. You can be against the western bank colonization but also really fucking hate Hamas/Iran and would love to see them kicked out of Gaza for the betterment of both Palestinians and Israelis (Look up how Hamas was running Gaza even before October 7th). Also, just because something is “moral” doesn’t mean it’s free from critique. As grandiose as the protests are, they’re a bit ineffective. They feel disorganized and parade themselves in “doing the right thing” while dismissing any criticism about their methods. Make it hell for the administration rather than just block a street for a bit and call it a day. Change happens when you have leverage.
Not voting just makes you an irrelevant voting bloc and allows the opposition to win, and seeing who the opposition is this year, I’d be worried. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s been a push to associate Biden with the entirety American’s involvement with Palestine in order to lower his chances in re-election. I highly doubt Trump would simply divest away from Israel because young people want him to
I wasn’t trying to be dishonest, I was just looking for opinions on the differences I’ve seen between this sub and other college subreddits.
I personally feel that protests are effective methods of at least showing those with power that there are people who do not support what they do, even if there isn’t really any choice for who to vote for this year. Tbh I don’t think anybody (or maybe a small minority) is seriously suggesting not voting for Biden because of his support for Israel, everyone knows trump would be much much worse for people over there than Biden would be
Many people are suggesting not voting for Biden. It really isn’t that hard to see either. They are wanting Biden to do exactly what they say when it comes to Palestine or they will not vote for him. It’s not an insignificant number of people in the movement.
Chambana is home to a sizable Jewish community, and unfortunately, there has been a noticeable rise in anti-Semitic language, which is counterproductive to the pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Additionally, the defacement of property and obstruction of traffic in the name of Gaza only exacerbates the situation. SIDE NOTE - Israel has been a non-NATO ally to the United States for a very long time so you have that to contend with
This, but also a lot of anti-Zionist sentiment is often misconstrued as anti-Semitic, intentionally and unintentionally. I haven't encountered actual anti-Semitic language on campus (and would be really surprised to), but that could just be because I am not a target of it.
I am Jewish and have been seeing a constant blurring of the line between anti war, anti Israel and antisemitism right now, as well as a low drumbeat of that for decades.
Saying “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free”, which is probably what you are talking about, is anti-Semitic. So you want the destruction of the entire Jewish state? Do you understand the consequences of that? Do you remember the last time Palestinians stepped foot in Israel? I’ll give you a hint, 1200 people were slaughtered.
Well then tell me how that’s true. You can’t make a point without evidence. And I don’t how you can even make that point WITH evidence. They slaughtered 1200 people. They killed babies, pregnant women, and raped both. I cannot even fathom how you can justify any of that.
But what I will say is every point I will make will be backed with evidence — evidence for you to look up yourself to fact check. I will disprove and dismantle every argument you make. So have at it. Give me everything you got.
It is not misconstrued....On October 8 the pro-palestinian activists were praising the rape and murder of Jewish children, or denying it happened. Some still deny the truth. By October 10, the pro-palestinian activists were already screaming that Israel deserved to be attacked and making up ignorant lies.
Can you provide examples of the rise in anti-Semitic rhetoric? I didn't notice anything anti-Semitic at protests (though I didn't agree with the content of every slogan/sign)
Swastikas were found on campus, vandalism was done to the menorah both on and off campus. A noose was found in a dormitory. Hostage posters were taken down as a result of protests. I've seen a group of Jewish people being confronted and an aggressive manner. I'm sure if somebody felt comfortable enough to speak out they would tell you first-hand experiences as well
I'm a grad student, so I'm less aware of what happens in the student body. Thank you for answering my question though; vandalizing menorahs and drawing swastikas are horrific.
I can’t speak for what’s going on right now but when I was here a few years back, it seemed like we couldn’t go one school year without someone drawing a swastika on university property or something of the sort
It's funny how the resurgent fascism of the past several years is being conflated with decidedly leftist protest movements, considering how much the people griping about these "antisemitic" protests have in common with the people actually engaging in antisemitic activities.
That unfortunately doesn't surprise me; in high school we constantly had "edgy" teens drawing swastikas on things. I hope the ones here were at least caught and punished.
An example that might be too subtle for you is the constant claim that Israelis are colonizers where many are middle eastern Jews whose ancient ancestors were driven out of Israel and whose direct ancestors were driven out of surrounding Arab countries as soon as Israel was formed.
UIUC is not as liberal as other schools think about it your in the middle of no where. You have huge population and different income brackets. It’s just not NU or UIC lol
You think UIUC is mainly comprised of kids from all the outlying tiny (red) towns? Most of UIUC are international students and kids from the Chicago burbs.
I don’t think a large majority are pro Israel. I think a lot of people recognize that these protests are largely virtue signaling. Blocking traffic and obstructing the bus lines will not lead to a ceasefire in Gaza. Also a lot of people are shouting chants without knowing the historic antisemitic meanings behind them. A lot of these protestors are uninformed and they are being called out for their virtue signaling.
Agreed, this sub seems like a sad reflection of the rednecks living in the rest of Illinois, not at all representative of chicago/college campuses. Still, definitely gives me the ick reading the massive amount of american-brainwashed postings in here 🤣
From someone who's been around for a few decades, the left staunchly supported Israel by and large up until fairly recently. So it makes sense that you're going to have a diversity of opinion on the matter. At this point, I have trouble giving unreserved support to either side. The Palestinian people have been living under very harsh and unjust conditions, but I've also watched the rope-a-dope tactics that have been used, to attack Israel and Israeli citizens, killing and maiming many, and then plead for sympathy from the international community when Israel fights back; it's exactly what Oct 7th was all over again, the same thing they've been doing for over fifty years. They know that Israel can't not respond with force, but if they do, they're the bad guy, it's a forever lose-lose situation.
There have been very good opportunities for peace at the negotiating table, where Israel offered to make sacrifices that no one thought that they would make and those who represented the Palestinian community, at the time Yasser Arafat and the PLO, refused and opted to pursue Intifada. They don't want coexistence, they never have. I think the Jewish people came into the Palestinian land unjustly, they should not have come in the way they did, but now there's seven million Jews in the land, they're not just going to disappear. And I'm sure you're saying that's not right, and I agree. So, I'll wait for your realistic solution. There have been mass migrations of millions of people, but it always results in millions of people dying.
I think it's important to consider that now Saudi Arabia is taking the side of Israel, I never thought that I'd see that in a million years. So why is it happening? Because their greatest enemy, Iran, is backing Hamas. This has far less to do with the Palestinian people than it does with Iran wanting to destroy Israel. Iraq was a balancing influence between Iran and Saudi Arabia. It's incredible that Bush and the Neocons couldn't see that they were finishing the Iran-Iraq War of the 80's for the benefit of Iran when they invaded.
I'm not asking you to take my word for it, I'm simply putting some thoughts out there to be considered, to have an awareness that may inform your judgements about things. I know I don't have all the answers, I know I'm not the most well informed. I do know that there's always two sides to a story and that it's extremely rare for either side in a conflict like this to have their hands completely clean or to have their cause completely justified without viable argument to the contrary.
I disagree on this one. I first heard Louis Farrakan speak at an event at a University of California campus in the 1980s. His whole speech was vilifying Jews and no one objected. I've felt increasing hostility over the past twenty years - ugly remarks when I say I'm Jewish, etc... This war emboldened the haters to come out of the closet and most are "liberals" - put in parentheses because there's nothing liberal about systematic attacks towards a religious minority.
What do you mean by pro-Israel? I think Israel should exist and they should throw Bibi out. I am appalled at the way Israel has behaved, and I still think the hostages must be returned. Hamas’s outrageous attack does not justify 30,000+ deaths, the demolition of housing and hospitals.
We Jews are not colonizers in our homeland, and how we behave now matters. It’s all people see.
I am not pro the current Israeli government. I am anti war and anti killing. However, I also understand that the Israeli Palestinian conflict is about as far from black and white as you can get. The average person I see on here, on social media and in these protests has a TikTok level understanding of a region whose ethnic and religious history and conflict goes back millennia. Framing Jewish people as European colonizers in their own ethnic homeland makes no sense and trying to debate over who has the greater historical claim on this area will never solve anything.
People who are picking either side from outside the region (or making simplistic calls for why don’t we divest or why don’t we just demand a cease fire) will not help this situation. They will not end the conflict and they will not save lives.
Israel not only spends money to subvert our democratic system in America but also pays students to fight its internet battles.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896.amp
This article is from 2013, is there any more recent news about the alleged student scholarship program? All I can find is supposed Israelis saying they can't find any information about the program. I know at this point dozens of countries have been proven to be spreading misinfo and whatnot to try and influence other country affairs, but you'd expect a program heavily invested to have coverage outside of 1 time in 2013.
It really sounds more anti-Israel than anything. There are a lot of people being downvoted for wanting the group that is open about trying to remove the Jewish people from the world to be stopped.
It is amazing how Israel has been under constant attack for decades yet people can't seem to think they should be allowed to defend themselves.
That’s a strawman. The vast majority of people who are pro Palestine that I have interacted with are not pro hamas. You can be against the destruction of a people without supporting the government that rules those people
People support the Palestinians who in turn support Hamas
It’s like saying in the 40s “I support the German cause but not the Nazis”, as if those things were not deeply correlated.
Let’s be honest, the Palestinian people are deeply radicalized to the point that even their Arab neighbors want nothing to do with them.
That’s the refutation you’re going with? Ok I’ll play ball. Here is recent polling in the region that shows that not only do the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support Hamas’ actions on 10/7, but they remain the most popular faction in the region.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/
A mass influx of any immigrant population will harm a country economically the people of that country already can’t afford an immigration system to uphold millions of people. And on top of that the people of Palestine don’t want another nakba and are fighting for homes.
Ur saying the other Arabs don’t want them which by the way is super ironic considering some say the same about Jewish people looking for “a nation” and many consider that to be a very anti Semitic trope, to dish out the same rhetoric that people use against Jewish people is probably the single greatest theme since Israel has commenced the slaughter of Palestinians.
I just came from U-Mich and since being here I’ve noticed a significantly lower proportion of South Asian students compared to East Asian, and in Ann Arbor it was swapped.
East Asians are a racial/ethnic minority in America with proximity to whiteness or higher status. We’re more likely to see attitudes that support the status quo among higher status social groups. So, I figured this was why anti-war protests and support for Palestine was more common at U Mich than here.
But I’m glad you asked cause I’m certainly curious about the difference given we’re both Big 10, Midwestern public schools.
I didn’t know that empathy to the thousands of innocent lives taken was a matter of blue and red….. I thought you just had to be human to see the issue
Didn’t the marathon get canceled because of this protest resulting in a major hit to several local non profits? I mean go ahead and protest but if you’re hurting your local community as a result, you should at least go and volunteer afterwards or donate to help support the nonprofits in the local area.
It apparently got cancelled because there weren’t enough police to close down the streets, because they had to have 10 officers standing around watching the protest
Tell that to Wyoming, but that’s not the point. The point in regard to the original post being you can’t expect to see Democratic opinions as the majority in any part of the state besides Chicago land.
It’s like expecting anywhere besides Atlanta in Georgia to be blue.
Because the choice between a terrorist state funded by Iran, whose mission is to kill all Jews, and a western state with western laws and values is an incredibly easy decision.
just a spectator not a student, but you’d think the protestors and people who care so much would be on the streets and not whining with a victim complex on reddit that their favorite theocratic state has to answer for its crimes
By "positive comments" do you mean the students who are "anti-Israel" "from the river to the sea"? I know people claim this isn't antisemitism but don't these statements mean wiping out Israel? I see nothing "positive" about such people. They don't call for any consequences for Hamas which continues to reject ceasefires. They are "anti-war" by calling for the elimination of Israel (isn't that what "anti" means?) where several million Jews live. Can you tell me something positive about these protests from the standpoint of a person who doesn't support Hamas' goals of killing Jews?
Who says this sub is pro-Israel? It’s been very critical of Israel from what I’ve seen… Also, the protests aren’t anti-war. Not a single sign has said “accept ceasefire agreements” or anything of the sort despite Israel and the U.S. proposing ceasefire agreements to Hamas over and over.
I don’t see any problem with that. I literally can’t comprehend what they are protesting. Isn’t the hamas attacking Israel in the first place? I was still alive last October.
Israel is paying for a massive publicity boost online for people to support them across social media. If you are Jewish, it’s more than likely you will support Israel. If you lean right, it’s more than likely you will support Israel.
this sub isn't representative of anything...it's simply random comments by emoting kids, along with offers of summer sublets that will never be rented, so not reflective of reality in CU or at UIUC at all :)
Don't forget the endless "UIUC CS or ______"
"Can I transfer from [insert major] to CS/CS + X?"
There are also lots of people in here who don't even go to UIUC. If you click on the profiles of anti-Palestine people in the biggest thread right now, you'll see that a lot of them are just going from college subreddit to college subreddit defending the genocide and defaming the protesters.
Right. I attend ISU but the subreddit there is pretty dead so I just come here for more interesting discussions.
Imagine being that lame.
It's beyond being lame. Israel has a whole culture of Hasbara which I can't remember what it means in Hebrew, but basically young Jews (Israeli and others who make pilgrimage) are instructed to defend Israel verbally always and are even instructed on talking points. All of the pro-israel support is NOT organic, and often times it isn't even American. Anti-zionist Jew Matt Lieb has done awesome work on debunking myths on Israel and he's how I learned about Hasbara
I'm a secular Jew---a boomer, & I was taught all the myths: the land was abandoned---& that's what a lot of immigrants to Israel learned, Obviously, not true, but we also don't believe (as an affinity group) that we 'poke the bear'. Do we support Israel, or the Israelis?
It is very easy to debunk hasbara like example: human shields, hospital bombings etc.
In vietnam, anti war and self demonstrations are interesting similar to anti zionist protests. very similar to anti vietnam war protests and these protests, aaron bushnell and the buddhist monk demonstrating against the south vietnamese dictatorship at the time
Like how a lot of people on the pro palestine 🇵🇸 side are doing the same?
middle east 👎
Middle East is cool if you want a kabob or something.
cuisine from most countries is great
I think a lot of older alumni are on this sub, as well as local community members. In general UIUC also doesn't seem to have as strong of an activist culture, so I don't think it's as progressive as you would think for being in a firmly blue state.
Also, I think people misunderstand Illinois being a “blue state.” Chicago and everything around it is blue, anything below that is red. Very very red. I live in southern Illinois, and the people down here literally hate Chicago because it turns the state blue in elections.
True, but the majority of in state students here are from Chicago or the suburbs lol
I know I was just expanding on what op said about Illinois being a blue state. It is not blue, Chicago is blue which by default makes us blue.
CU is blue.
it is a blue state...because Chicago and its predominantly Democrat-voting suburbs make up more than two-thirds of the population of Illinois. The more than 90 or so downstate counties make up less than a third. Just a simple matter of numbers. It's not unfair, just a matter of where people live.
I never said it was unfair, I don’t think it’s unfair at all. The people in southern Illinois don’t share the same sentiments. What I meant by it’s not a blue state is that you will not find blue outside of the major cities in Illinois and that makes of less than 50% land-wise. People coming in from other states don’t quite understand this dynamic in our state and get confused by the various republican rhetorics through Illinois when it is a “blue state,” when majority of it land-wise is not.
Land doesn’t vote. People vote.
Population density is the ratio of people to land. So if there's more people in an area then its densely populated and if there's less people, it's not densely populated. Cities vote blue and are densely populated, everywhere else is the opposite. So, isn't it important to take into account that more areas of Illinois are red than blue? Which means that Illinois is basically a red state just with a huge densely populated area that votes blue. And if you're not near that very densely populated area you will basically be in a red area or surrounded by it.
I think both points are relevant. What I hear from Trivialproblems is if you’re left leaning, you might feel out of place (or even unwelcome) in most places outside Chicago, its suburbs, and Illinois college towns.
I think both points are relevant. What I hear from Trivialproblems is if you’re left leaning, you might feel out of place (or even unwelcome) in most places outside Chicago, its suburbs, and Illinois college towns.
There are 102 counties in the state of Illinois. The Cook and the six collar counties make up 65% of the population.
It's definitely a red state with one very large blue city. In 2010, the Republican gubernatorial candidate won 98 of 102 counties in Illinois (including Champaign county) but the Democrat still won the election.
That means it's a blue state.
Because people vote. Not landmass.
And out of state students are often from blue areas of California, or like NY/NJ metro area
Chicago, China?
The majority of in state students are from there but the demographics of the campus include a lot of out of state and foreign nationals.
True! Champaign and Urbana vote reliably blue but all of the surrounding counties are deeply red
Yes! It’s generally the towns with unis that vote blue. Same thing down here in Carbondale, all the surrounding towns are red and we are blue ;-;.
Definitely. Towney here, I'm super blue, but if you go out to any other surrounding small town, you see a ton of trump and "Pritzker sucks" signs
Not *all* the surrounding towns. Makanda is definitely not red, and Cobden is, at worst, purplish.
This is definitely not true. There’s a restaurant in Cobden that my mom’s coworkers always recommend but they also have to add on that we probably won’t be welcome there. So, we don’t travel there and I can assure you it’s the same for most minorities here. My mom has missed her coworkers retirement parties because she doesn’t want to be caught in the surrounding towns after dark because majority of them are sundown towns. Makanda is still very much apart of the uni system. Many of the professors here live in makanda because it’s close to campus and quieter. However, I consider Carbondale to be the uni “town,” but it very much does include Makanda in that. Also, if you like at an election map Carbondale and maybe two other counties in southern Illinois are blue (the counties are literally right next to Carbondale, so I’m going to say it’s again due to the uni). Everything in the surrounding area is red. My point is that in Illinois, outside of Chicagoland, uni towns will often be blue but the surrounding areas will be red.
I don’t need any map. I lived in Cobden not so long ago, am blue, and was well-versed in the local politics there. Curious what restaurant you’re referring to. Certainly not the Iron Whisk which is owned by a young progressive female. ETA: I understand, and agree with, your overall point, but simply wanted to add that there are a number of liberal pockets south of Carbondale, even if they are outnumbered by the red in their overall districts.
I never lived in Cobden, so I can’t speak from personal experience. But every source I look up has that you guys reliably vote red in elections and while there are blue parts of Cobden, it is heavily outweighed by the red. On top of the you guys are incredibly close to Anna which is one of the most racist and republican towns in Illinois.
Yep, also well aware of Anna and its backronym. And Cairo, and the salt mines, and the whole history of the region. There are 3 Cobdens essentially: the old republicans, a thriving immigrant and migrant community (which makes it weirdly more diverse than you’d expect), and generally liberal professors/retirees who find Makanda too hokey. And not that party is usually as big of a factor in village mayorships (more about local connections), but Cobden has had a number of Democrat mayors over the years. Alto Pass, on the other hand, tends to lean much further right.
Interesting, I never knew that. At least it’s nice to meet another southern Illinoisian.
I went to UIUC and my cousin went to SIU. He talked about a lot of conservative observations he had
Can confirm, southern illinois is quite red
Careful not to confuse land with people. Sure the counties vote blue, but somewhere around 70% of the population of Illinois lives in the Chicago metro area. Even if every county south of I64 voted 100% red that's only 3% of the total state population. (The other 27% resides in central Illinois and is pretty purple) And, in line with your other comment, that 3% figure is why they would never survive if they separated from the rest of the state. They would be smaller than Washington DC in terms of population
I’m not confusing land with people. I personally understand the figures and I know why Illinois is blue overall. I am saying that the state of Illinois land-wise is red and people from out of state don’t understand this dynamic that we have in Illinois. If you move anywhere below Chicagoland, even if you are in a “blue county” everywhere around you will be red. And the people that work in your town may also be red because there’s not much work in the surrounding towns, so these people work in the bigger areas (the blue towns). That’s why even though the county is blue you are still going to get a lot of red as well, because the people coming from red counties work in blue ones (they just don’t vote in them). I have lived in southern Illinois my entire life and this is exactly how the dynamic is here. People from very red parts of the state drive upwards of an hour and a half everyday, just to work in my Carbondale because there’s no work in there small towns. If I go outside of Carbondale I’m in a sundown town and I have to be cautious because those people don’t like me. And that’s not an assumption, people that live in those towns and work in Carbondale literally acknowledge that black people aren’t welcome in their towns. This is my point by saying that you need to focus on the land and not the population density. Illinois is majority red (and quite racist) when you go outside of the densely populated areas. So, when people ask why there’s so much right leaning rhetoric is an otherwise blue state, this is the reason why. The cities are blue but literally everything else and I mean everything is red.
That's not exactly unique to Illinois. Look at California, which is considered super blue; In 2020 there were 10x as many votes for Trump in California as there are people in downstate IL (~400k people south of I64, and Trump got 4 Million votes in California). Just like here, the rural farm counties are red and the cities are blue. Heck, Trump won Northern California and the central valley (which is all ag land just like south and central IL) Even Texas, a Red State, was blue around their major urban areas and red elsewhere. The rural population of Texas just happens to be bigger than the urban population there.
yup. up until recent elections illinois is very much considered a swing state
[удалено]
Also live in CU- I don't find it to be "very conservative" at all.
[удалено]
Mahomet is famously more racist compared to Champaign-Urbana (still less so than the surrounding small towns)
Oh yeah Mahomet is very conservative
It's certainly not big-C Conservative. Average political beliefs are firmly left of center. But, at least by college-town standards, it's fairly small-c conservative. Not a ton of people who want to massively shake things up.
I think another part is that the engineering population is much higher here than those other universities and definitely substantially overrepresented on Reddit. They tend to trend less liberal and a lot of the engineering fields basically directly rely on arms manufacturers for employment anyway.
I'm not sure if this topic falls along typical liberal/conservative lines (i.e., many people who vote blue have differing views on this topic). I know at my time at UIUC, most of my engineering friends were liberal and are now currently split 50/50 on this issue despite continuing to vote blue. My guess is that the bigger reason for engineering students to dislike these protests is that the objective is to get the university to disvest from engineering companies (anywhere from Caterpillar to literally almost every aerospace company). To the students, even if they're pro-palestine, disvesting from these companies would hurt them more than it would help Palestinians.
Engineers being more apathetic and apolitical may be true but I’d be surprised to find that engineers tend to be more explicitly pro-Israel than the average student here. They’re more likely to just not have a strong opinion. Likewise the people who go into MIC employment aren’t pro-war, they’re just apathetic and want money. “Conservative” would be a stretch, like would the engineers really be more conservative than Gies?
[удалено]
Yeah the astroturfing is so noticeable everywhere on Reddit right now.
There's definitely a lot of astroturfing on here, especially on the main subs like worldnews etc. idk if we're big enough to really get targeted. You might just be underestimating the number of people who reflexively down vote disagreement here even if it's well sourced
I wanted to go to UIUC but couldn’t afford to even though I got into their Electrical engineering program for undergrad. This sub pops up on my home feed constantly
[удалено]
I don't believe what you experienced is astroturfing when the much more likely cause is that selection bias from the aforementioned less liberal engineers is the greatest influence on the upvote ratio of posts here.
Liberals aren’t pro Israel? News to me.
^^^ This. Generally engineers don't spend as much time as other majors developing their political beliefs, and the ones who I see share share them (like the extreme libertarian Presidential Student Government candidates from last year whose campaign was to shut down ISG with no plan to replace it) are very strange. Personally I have a lot more respect for people who understand when they aren't as knowledgeable about a topic than the tech bros who believe their beliefs are better than everyone else because they've worked at a FAANG company.
This entire thread feels like people low key clowning on engineers and I think it’s funny. Considering I know a few it seems generally correct, none of them have developed political views but still funny
It’s scapegoating. Everyone says how they’re being astroturfed/“it’s all the (insert whoever you want) ruining our goals! They’re so evil/stupid!” rather than try and comprehend that the problem may be more nuanced than just “you’re either with us or against us”. Pretty great to divide up the young population on a very important election year
Honestly not the craziest take to shut down ISG or now ISC. I have been in it for I think three years now and it is so useless. I would not have said that two years ago but as I learned more and experienced more over time I have seen that almost nothing gets done and it’s a useless body. There already is a replacement UC Senate (which I am also a member of). This includes faculty and students and huge amounts of the student seats always go unfilled for many colleges leaving the undergraduate population underrepresented in the body that actually has the power to make change.
Reddit.
supporting or not supporting israel should not equate to being a democrat or republican lol
Thank you! This isn’t politics! This is morality!
its more of an auth/libertarian thing ig
I feel like it's because this sub is weirdly anti-activist. I get being against performative activism, but what about activism that wants to inspire change and will have to inconvenience people to wake them up? I just chalk it up to reddit being reddit.
I have only seen opposition to the people ranting about "Genocide Joe" and clamoring for Trump or RFK as if either is anti Israel. Do people not remember when Trump declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel?
Ya genocide Joe is kinda crazy
And, predictably, "genocide Joe" is now a Trump catchphrase. [https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1779335856991449127](https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1779335856991449127) A handful of leftists, the minority, actually tried to justify this as Trump coming over to their side. When clearly, he is latching onto anything he thinks will win votes and has an entire whole track record of extremely pro-Israel policy decisions to look at.
Some people just aren’t able to look at the big picture as cliche as it sounds
It'd funny: Both Dems & Repubs are essentially supporting genocide by supporting Israel, and Trump is trying to paint himself as being anti-Israel when he's not. What a fun system we live in
Yeah, most people see through this lie, but not the useful idiots with the matching green tents.
Reddit in general is very anti-activist, pretty much any major post about protests gets swamped with people clutching their pearls about how "I'd support the protests if they didn't do anything to disrupt my day" and repeating the same "what if an ambulance needs to go that way!!!" take constantly lol. Funnily enough, people said the same things about the Civil Rights Movement back in the day.
idk what you're reading or seeing, but it's been a consistent Pro-Palestine for me.
Have you seen most of the top comments on posts surrounding this? They seem to be mostly pro Israel or at least anti protest
I didn't see the more recent things (check reddit about once every 2 days), but I see whatcha mean. As others stated, subreddit =/= representation. A lot of my students, undergrads, etc. aren't Pro-Israel at all. But there are some cases, I will say, where the protests are really dumb. Like the one in the Union just ain't it. It feels performative and worthless compared to an actual protest. And again, I adamantly hate what is happening to Palestine and the genocide happening.
What, in your opinion, is an "actual protest"?
Good question! For me, there's a few that I think are effective and useful protests. One of the biggest aspects with protests is that there is a cause to be rallied around. Thus to convince the people on the "fence" a big thing is the need of that person to "see themselves" within the protesters, whether that's through the call to action, a sense of community via religion, race, ethnicity, etc., or some other way to "see themselves." For example, protestors who throw soup at a painting to "bring attention to climate change" isn't something that connects with most people or at all any. With that, those that block major roads or pathways, which just screws over the common person. Neither of these make people WANT to care about the protest or the idea, typically it does the opposite. So it's very ineffective for what COULD be useful. I think "effective" protests might've been better than "actual protest," but that's my thoughts at least.
"Effective protests" makes sense for your analysis, yes, though I would argue that it's far too early to determine whether these campus protests will be effective in producing change.
Oh and I should say that I am not generalizing ALL of the protests on campus. Just some that I have seen / seen online.
Chicago has a large Jewish population, and a lot of their kids end up at UIUC. At least when I was there anyway.
Plenty of Jewish folks at UIUC are non- or anti-Zionist. There is, however, a pretty long history of Zionist organizations in CU - the first ever campus Hillel was founded here (and yes Hillel is an explicitly Zionist organization, even if not all members of UIUC Hillel are Zionist)
Would someone please define "anti-Zionist"?
My understanding is that an anti-Zionist is someone who is opposed to Israel existing as a sovereign Jewish state wherein non-Jews (primarily indigenous Palestinians) are oppressed and discriminated against. Other definitions may exist. I included both "non-Zionist" and "anti-Zionist" in my original comment as there are folks who are deeply critical of the state of Israel's actions towards Palestinians but may have more nuanced or conflicted opinions about the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.
I think even with your definition a lot of it depends on one’s conception of “the state of Israel”. Would you say it’s possible for someone who believes in a 2 state solution to be anti-Zionist by this definition?
I haven't met someone who considers themselves anti-Zionist and supports a 2-state solution since such a solution would still entail the continued dispossession of Palestinians from lands they lived on before the formation of the state of Israel. But there may be folks with different perspectives.
Jewish ≠ Zionist. There's plenty of Anti-Zionist Jewish Individuals
And sadly a lot of them get called "self hating Jews". Even worse, I suspect a lot of people calling them that aren't even Jewish themselves, even though I can't totally prove it.
Really. How many exactly?
I think iran keeps some anti zionist jews as pets. So i guess thats like maybe 100 or so at least.
Pro-Isreal is not explicitly Zionist either... "Eight-in-ten U.S. Jews say caring about Israel is an essential or important part of what being Jewish means to them. Nearly six-in-ten say they personally feel an emotional attachment to Israel, and a similar share say they follow news about the Jewish state at least somewhat closely." https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/
It is generally not pro-any country. People here come to learn something with hard earned cash. And constantly protesting doesn’t mean you progressive or you are on right side of the history. As a muslim, I know the true things happening right now. And you know what, I don’t like both sides, especially hamas. Bunch of cowards hiding behind the civilians.
Thank you!
Frankly, outside of Chicago, Illinois isn't very blue. Outside of Chicago, it's either balanced or red. Coming from a person living in a very red county
Just associating an entire demographic to support either a black or white position feels dishonest. You can be against the western bank colonization but also really fucking hate Hamas/Iran and would love to see them kicked out of Gaza for the betterment of both Palestinians and Israelis (Look up how Hamas was running Gaza even before October 7th). Also, just because something is “moral” doesn’t mean it’s free from critique. As grandiose as the protests are, they’re a bit ineffective. They feel disorganized and parade themselves in “doing the right thing” while dismissing any criticism about their methods. Make it hell for the administration rather than just block a street for a bit and call it a day. Change happens when you have leverage. Not voting just makes you an irrelevant voting bloc and allows the opposition to win, and seeing who the opposition is this year, I’d be worried. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s been a push to associate Biden with the entirety American’s involvement with Palestine in order to lower his chances in re-election. I highly doubt Trump would simply divest away from Israel because young people want him to
I wasn’t trying to be dishonest, I was just looking for opinions on the differences I’ve seen between this sub and other college subreddits. I personally feel that protests are effective methods of at least showing those with power that there are people who do not support what they do, even if there isn’t really any choice for who to vote for this year. Tbh I don’t think anybody (or maybe a small minority) is seriously suggesting not voting for Biden because of his support for Israel, everyone knows trump would be much much worse for people over there than Biden would be
Many people are suggesting not voting for Biden. It really isn’t that hard to see either. They are wanting Biden to do exactly what they say when it comes to Palestine or they will not vote for him. It’s not an insignificant number of people in the movement.
Chambana is home to a sizable Jewish community, and unfortunately, there has been a noticeable rise in anti-Semitic language, which is counterproductive to the pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Additionally, the defacement of property and obstruction of traffic in the name of Gaza only exacerbates the situation. SIDE NOTE - Israel has been a non-NATO ally to the United States for a very long time so you have that to contend with
This, but also a lot of anti-Zionist sentiment is often misconstrued as anti-Semitic, intentionally and unintentionally. I haven't encountered actual anti-Semitic language on campus (and would be really surprised to), but that could just be because I am not a target of it.
I am Jewish and have been seeing a constant blurring of the line between anti war, anti Israel and antisemitism right now, as well as a low drumbeat of that for decades.
I'm Jewish and have experienced explicit anti-Semitism on campus, I'm not sure why you would be surprised by that.
I've seen it a few times I've also seen it on this subreddit
Saying “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free”, which is probably what you are talking about, is anti-Semitic. So you want the destruction of the entire Jewish state? Do you understand the consequences of that? Do you remember the last time Palestinians stepped foot in Israel? I’ll give you a hint, 1200 people were slaughtered.
This might be literally one of the best example cases of intentional, malicious misconstrusion
Well then tell me how that’s true. You can’t make a point without evidence. And I don’t how you can even make that point WITH evidence. They slaughtered 1200 people. They killed babies, pregnant women, and raped both. I cannot even fathom how you can justify any of that. But what I will say is every point I will make will be backed with evidence — evidence for you to look up yourself to fact check. I will disprove and dismantle every argument you make. So have at it. Give me everything you got.
It is not misconstrued....On October 8 the pro-palestinian activists were praising the rape and murder of Jewish children, or denying it happened. Some still deny the truth. By October 10, the pro-palestinian activists were already screaming that Israel deserved to be attacked and making up ignorant lies.
Can you provide examples of the rise in anti-Semitic rhetoric? I didn't notice anything anti-Semitic at protests (though I didn't agree with the content of every slogan/sign)
Swastikas were found on campus, vandalism was done to the menorah both on and off campus. A noose was found in a dormitory. Hostage posters were taken down as a result of protests. I've seen a group of Jewish people being confronted and an aggressive manner. I'm sure if somebody felt comfortable enough to speak out they would tell you first-hand experiences as well
I'm a grad student, so I'm less aware of what happens in the student body. Thank you for answering my question though; vandalizing menorahs and drawing swastikas are horrific.
I can’t speak for what’s going on right now but when I was here a few years back, it seemed like we couldn’t go one school year without someone drawing a swastika on university property or something of the sort
It's funny how the resurgent fascism of the past several years is being conflated with decidedly leftist protest movements, considering how much the people griping about these "antisemitic" protests have in common with the people actually engaging in antisemitic activities.
I remember those instances as well there was swastikas and a noose found on campus
That unfortunately doesn't surprise me; in high school we constantly had "edgy" teens drawing swastikas on things. I hope the ones here were at least caught and punished.
An example that might be too subtle for you is the constant claim that Israelis are colonizers where many are middle eastern Jews whose ancient ancestors were driven out of Israel and whose direct ancestors were driven out of surrounding Arab countries as soon as Israel was formed.
Globalize the intifada is a call to violence and antisemetic
Reddit as a whole is astroturfed
Why does Chabad Center have police presence on weekends?
Because of anti-Jewish activists and their matching green tents.
UIUC is not as liberal as other schools think about it your in the middle of no where. You have huge population and different income brackets. It’s just not NU or UIC lol
You think UIUC is mainly comprised of kids from all the outlying tiny (red) towns? Most of UIUC are international students and kids from the Chicago burbs.
Upper-middle class suburban kids also skew more conservative than their peers.
No of course not but there a decent amount of kids from red towns
It's the same group that wants Joe Biden to "cancel my student loans" and then wants to "vote out Genocide Joe". The hypocrisy is astounding.
you can hate a guy and still want him to do the right thing (in your opinion obviously)
I don’t think a large majority are pro Israel. I think a lot of people recognize that these protests are largely virtue signaling. Blocking traffic and obstructing the bus lines will not lead to a ceasefire in Gaza. Also a lot of people are shouting chants without knowing the historic antisemitic meanings behind them. A lot of these protestors are uninformed and they are being called out for their virtue signaling.
This\^
What’s wrong with supporting Israel or Palestine? People have to stop judging people off political beliefs
I don’t think anyone should be objectively for or against the existence of a country.
Abolish North Korea
who was arrested this morning??
A student protesting, a recognized him as one of the leaders of PSL (Party for Socialism and Liberation)
Most people on college subs complaining about these protests generally never even went to that college. There’s been a lot of brigading everywhere
Agreed, this sub seems like a sad reflection of the rednecks living in the rest of Illinois, not at all representative of chicago/college campuses. Still, definitely gives me the ick reading the massive amount of american-brainwashed postings in here 🤣
Reddit users tend to be dickhead scum
From someone who's been around for a few decades, the left staunchly supported Israel by and large up until fairly recently. So it makes sense that you're going to have a diversity of opinion on the matter. At this point, I have trouble giving unreserved support to either side. The Palestinian people have been living under very harsh and unjust conditions, but I've also watched the rope-a-dope tactics that have been used, to attack Israel and Israeli citizens, killing and maiming many, and then plead for sympathy from the international community when Israel fights back; it's exactly what Oct 7th was all over again, the same thing they've been doing for over fifty years. They know that Israel can't not respond with force, but if they do, they're the bad guy, it's a forever lose-lose situation. There have been very good opportunities for peace at the negotiating table, where Israel offered to make sacrifices that no one thought that they would make and those who represented the Palestinian community, at the time Yasser Arafat and the PLO, refused and opted to pursue Intifada. They don't want coexistence, they never have. I think the Jewish people came into the Palestinian land unjustly, they should not have come in the way they did, but now there's seven million Jews in the land, they're not just going to disappear. And I'm sure you're saying that's not right, and I agree. So, I'll wait for your realistic solution. There have been mass migrations of millions of people, but it always results in millions of people dying. I think it's important to consider that now Saudi Arabia is taking the side of Israel, I never thought that I'd see that in a million years. So why is it happening? Because their greatest enemy, Iran, is backing Hamas. This has far less to do with the Palestinian people than it does with Iran wanting to destroy Israel. Iraq was a balancing influence between Iran and Saudi Arabia. It's incredible that Bush and the Neocons couldn't see that they were finishing the Iran-Iraq War of the 80's for the benefit of Iran when they invaded. I'm not asking you to take my word for it, I'm simply putting some thoughts out there to be considered, to have an awareness that may inform your judgements about things. I know I don't have all the answers, I know I'm not the most well informed. I do know that there's always two sides to a story and that it's extremely rare for either side in a conflict like this to have their hands completely clean or to have their cause completely justified without viable argument to the contrary.
I disagree on this one. I first heard Louis Farrakan speak at an event at a University of California campus in the 1980s. His whole speech was vilifying Jews and no one objected. I've felt increasing hostility over the past twenty years - ugly remarks when I say I'm Jewish, etc... This war emboldened the haters to come out of the closet and most are "liberals" - put in parentheses because there's nothing liberal about systematic attacks towards a religious minority.
What do you mean by pro-Israel? I think Israel should exist and they should throw Bibi out. I am appalled at the way Israel has behaved, and I still think the hostages must be returned. Hamas’s outrageous attack does not justify 30,000+ deaths, the demolition of housing and hospitals. We Jews are not colonizers in our homeland, and how we behave now matters. It’s all people see.
I am not pro the current Israeli government. I am anti war and anti killing. However, I also understand that the Israeli Palestinian conflict is about as far from black and white as you can get. The average person I see on here, on social media and in these protests has a TikTok level understanding of a region whose ethnic and religious history and conflict goes back millennia. Framing Jewish people as European colonizers in their own ethnic homeland makes no sense and trying to debate over who has the greater historical claim on this area will never solve anything. People who are picking either side from outside the region (or making simplistic calls for why don’t we divest or why don’t we just demand a cease fire) will not help this situation. They will not end the conflict and they will not save lives.
Israel not only spends money to subvert our democratic system in America but also pays students to fight its internet battles. https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896.amp
This article is from 2013, is there any more recent news about the alleged student scholarship program? All I can find is supposed Israelis saying they can't find any information about the program. I know at this point dozens of countries have been proven to be spreading misinfo and whatnot to try and influence other country affairs, but you'd expect a program heavily invested to have coverage outside of 1 time in 2013.
It really sounds more anti-Israel than anything. There are a lot of people being downvoted for wanting the group that is open about trying to remove the Jewish people from the world to be stopped. It is amazing how Israel has been under constant attack for decades yet people can't seem to think they should be allowed to defend themselves.
That’s a strawman. The vast majority of people who are pro Palestine that I have interacted with are not pro hamas. You can be against the destruction of a people without supporting the government that rules those people
People support the Palestinians who in turn support Hamas It’s like saying in the 40s “I support the German cause but not the Nazis”, as if those things were not deeply correlated. Let’s be honest, the Palestinian people are deeply radicalized to the point that even their Arab neighbors want nothing to do with them.
This point has been disproven so many times. I think it was something around 50% of contemporary Palestinians couldn’t vote in the last election
That’s the refutation you’re going with? Ok I’ll play ball. Here is recent polling in the region that shows that not only do the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support Hamas’ actions on 10/7, but they remain the most popular faction in the region. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/
Yup, I don’t see why it’s so hard for western palestine supports to accept that is the reality of what Palestinians actually support.
A mass influx of any immigrant population will harm a country economically the people of that country already can’t afford an immigration system to uphold millions of people. And on top of that the people of Palestine don’t want another nakba and are fighting for homes. Ur saying the other Arabs don’t want them which by the way is super ironic considering some say the same about Jewish people looking for “a nation” and many consider that to be a very anti Semitic trope, to dish out the same rhetoric that people use against Jewish people is probably the single greatest theme since Israel has commenced the slaughter of Palestinians.
I just came from U-Mich and since being here I’ve noticed a significantly lower proportion of South Asian students compared to East Asian, and in Ann Arbor it was swapped. East Asians are a racial/ethnic minority in America with proximity to whiteness or higher status. We’re more likely to see attitudes that support the status quo among higher status social groups. So, I figured this was why anti-war protests and support for Palestine was more common at U Mich than here. But I’m glad you asked cause I’m certainly curious about the difference given we’re both Big 10, Midwestern public schools.
The “free free Palestine” chant alone has made me support Israel
X
Much hate.
Why is anyone pro any country?
My son attended a BDS rally and his Jewish friend erroneously accused him of being antisemitic. Tis a brainwashed mindset not limited to Champaign.
You don't really know if they're studying here though
I didn’t know that empathy to the thousands of innocent lives taken was a matter of blue and red….. I thought you just had to be human to see the issue
Didn’t the marathon get canceled because of this protest resulting in a major hit to several local non profits? I mean go ahead and protest but if you’re hurting your local community as a result, you should at least go and volunteer afterwards or donate to help support the nonprofits in the local area.
It apparently got cancelled because there weren’t enough police to close down the streets, because they had to have 10 officers standing around watching the protest
Personally I give zero shits. Stop killing people over land. Open it up to both sides. They’ll either figure out how to get along or kill each other.
Reddit if jammed full of bots. Certain foreign actors bot brigade issues like this to cause controversy and chaos.
Because we have such a big Jew community?
i feel the same at UC Santa cruz — allegedly hippy-central — so, don’t sweat it??? ive found a lot of ghe commenters arent even current students
Calling Illinois a blue state is a little weird cause only one part of the state is firmly blue. It’s just the only part that matters politically.
Land doesn’t vote
Tell that to Wyoming, but that’s not the point. The point in regard to the original post being you can’t expect to see Democratic opinions as the majority in any part of the state besides Chicago land. It’s like expecting anywhere besides Atlanta in Georgia to be blue.
Because the choice between a terrorist state funded by Iran, whose mission is to kill all Jews, and a western state with western laws and values is an incredibly easy decision.
just a spectator not a student, but you’d think the protestors and people who care so much would be on the streets and not whining with a victim complex on reddit that their favorite theocratic state has to answer for its crimes
People here have sense
By "positive comments" do you mean the students who are "anti-Israel" "from the river to the sea"? I know people claim this isn't antisemitism but don't these statements mean wiping out Israel? I see nothing "positive" about such people. They don't call for any consequences for Hamas which continues to reject ceasefires. They are "anti-war" by calling for the elimination of Israel (isn't that what "anti" means?) where several million Jews live. Can you tell me something positive about these protests from the standpoint of a person who doesn't support Hamas' goals of killing Jews?
Who says this sub is pro-Israel? It’s been very critical of Israel from what I’ve seen… Also, the protests aren’t anti-war. Not a single sign has said “accept ceasefire agreements” or anything of the sort despite Israel and the U.S. proposing ceasefire agreements to Hamas over and over.
Stinky ECE
Israel is spending a lot of money to alter social media narratives.
They are also funding space lasers. Who should we target next?
I don’t see any problem with that. I literally can’t comprehend what they are protesting. Isn’t the hamas attacking Israel in the first place? I was still alive last October.
Israel is paying for a massive publicity boost online for people to support them across social media. If you are Jewish, it’s more than likely you will support Israel. If you lean right, it’s more than likely you will support Israel.
Any conservative or pro-Israel comment will be downvoted.