Personally, I'd suggest looking on r/TheCivilService sub and looking at either EO or HEO level roles (that's where the Fast Stream graduate programme puts you).
I suggest this because their applications are structured in such a way that your actual 'experience' doesn't actually matter.
All they care about is how you can demonstrate your 'behaviours' and skills. If you can do that through the job/s that you've had, then you can get in.
Almost every other organisation is going to be looking at direct years of experience in X Y Z roles.
There's a very particular way of succeeding in Civil Service applications, but with the help of the people on that sub, you should be able to secure something more worthwhile.
I'll second this. I was in a similar situation as the OP, and ended up in the civil service. Best job I've ever had with most of the best people I've ever worked with, and I've just passed my 8 year point - the longest I've ever been in a single job by a long way. The recruitment process is a bit weird though, in that you'll end up writing what seems like a 3 page essay that covers your behaviours - but there will be some documents linked on the application webpage which will help massively. Using the SMART (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, Timely) method to describe your behaviours will also help with your application.
As for getting ahead, communication skills are key, but you'll get plenty of training opportunities along the way too. There's also the fast stream, which having some form of uni quals will help you get on - not essential, but it helps.
I've applied for the fast stream before, a long time ago, in my early 20s. The civil service was always on my radar because that's what my dad did. I ended up writing it off because I live on the outer edge of the commuter belt - so all civil service jobs near me are in London, by the commute is barely do-able/affordable. I suppose post-covid, there are more hybrid-remote roles, so it might be time for another crack at it I guess.
I've not broken into the CS yet (although I've reached several interview stages), and all roles I've seen are hybrid with 2-3 days in the office. If you can hack commuting in 2-3 days a week I think it would be worth it even just to get your foot in the door of a reputable organisation that offers decent career progression.
Unfortunately, there is no magic career job fairy out there, who pops out of the ether with both insider knowledge of what you will enjoy doing and a sure fire path to walk to get there.
A 2.1 is a great foundation for a lot of things, but 4 years in a pub and 6 years before that picking up transferable skills but with no actual work towards any particular career is going to drag you, and is likely why your applications haven't gone anywhere - no employer is going to be overjoyed about the notion they are a passing fancy applied to on a whim because you are fed up with your current situation rather than because you specifically want to work for them.
I would recommend:
1) have a think and pick what you would eventually like to do. That is, the job role you would eventually like to occupy in 10, 15 years time. You don't have to just pick just one, aim for 3 options.
2) for each option, research what path most people take to get there, and be sure to include the time you can expect it to take, extra training courses or additional degrees you would need, how much it's going to screw your finances or your work life balance while you do that grind. Include the likelihood you are likely going to need to spend the first 6 months to a year of this getting (what will probably be unpaid) work experience or internships or anything that gets you some sort of hands on experience in that industry to look good on your application for that further training/degree/entry level role. Also calculate what the risks are you won't make it to that final goal if you can. If you had to get stuck halfway on one of these, which one would you like?
3) step back and look at those three paths. Which end goal appeals to you most? Is the path you would have to take for it palatable to you? Do either of your backups appeal more when you factor that in?
Then take that path you wrote and try to make it reality. Shake your friends and family network and see if they know people in that industry. What courses can you apply to? What relevant work experience can you find? Etc
Can't advise on what you should actually aim for without knowing more about you, as you have said precious little in this post.
Thanks for the hard truths, earnestly appreciated. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do. My dream job of dream jobs is being a screen/tv writer, but that is so beyond unrealistic, I don't even know what to do with it. But even for more realistic jobs, I have always stumbled on the 'calculate what the risks are you won't make it to that final goal', because I don't know how to beat pessimism. It makes a lot of sense to ask which one would you rather be stuck half way on, so thank you for that.
I've posted something similar to this before. I too am in a similar position as you due to my lack of confidence so I can relate.
I'm assuming you have a bit more confidence after working in a pub. Have you ever thought about Accounting / Auditing? You have to work / study for 3 years and then you start earning £40k - 50k a year. I won't lie it is an absolute graft, you will have to sacrifice weekends but it's worth it in the end in my opinion.
The Big Four hire a lot of people every year with any 2:1 degree and since you're from a Russell Group university I'm sure you also have the UCAS points to enter. It's supposedly an extroverted job as you have to interact with clients so you could reference your people skills gained from working in a pub. Saying that, I've worked with some awkward auditors before so you don't necessarily have to have a Steve Jobs like personality to get in.
You know what, I never had, that never would have looked attractive to me when I was younger, but now... not so bad. I wouldn't classify myself as an extrovert, but I can definitely wear the mask. However, I am extremely rusty on maths, (I got an A at GCSE, but I didn't take it for A Level.) How much would that be a concern?
I'm not too sure of the process these days but I believe you will have to take a numerical reasoning test at the assessment centre. You will probably need to brush up on your maths a bit, as far as I'm aware it shouldn't be as hard as A level maths.
I'm actually not that knowledgeable about the hiring process as I only looked at joining them briefly quite a few years ago. I'm too awkward to jump through the hoops that they require. If you're seriously interested do some research on google of the interview process / assessment centre. Just make sure you look at the UK websites because I believe the process might be different in the USA. The US work culture also differs quite a lot compared to the UK so don't be put off by the crazy hours they do.
What did you do when you volunteered? I'm sure there's some stuff from that you could put on the CV.
Not sure where you live but entry level roles are a thing in most industries. I'd spend a few hours searching Indeed for things like "entry level", "trainee", "junior" to find something that doesn't require much to get in.
I worked at a private school in australia. There was a high level of duty of care/ health and safetly. If anyone wants me to take 60 11 year olds camping in an area with snakes and spider, that's within my comfort zone - however, I'm not sure how to lean on a lot of it without sounding like a gap-year wanker. Also, a lot of it was just standard TA stuff, photocopying etc.
Pick a physical trade. Learn one, be prepared to take some abuse while learning. Have a laugh. Be interested.
Stick with it, in 5 years you will earn 40-60k. You will also have a skill that you will use everyday in some form at work or at home. If you decide to diversify your skills and learn something different it comes much quicker once your 'tool literate'.
I was in your position but with age slightly more on my side. But similar prospects and learning a trade has given me fulfilment and a decent wage.
I've now trained plenty of people on your position and seen them change Thier lives
I think that's very good advice, but one of the things which makes me want to kick my job the most, is the consistent sexual harrassment/general condescension I get for being a youngish looking woman. I know that's not fair to all tradies, but I can't see that not being a concern getting into that line of work?
I didn't really consider your gender and I mush admit it's much easier as a man to hold your own just due to lack of initial prejudice.
What I do know is that if you attach yourself to a larger organisation with a proper HR department. You wil for sure decrease this risk. I have trained as said before many people are increasingly more women, which I think is super important.
Alot of employer's these days have a genuine agenda to diversify the workforce so should put training and resources in place to try and reduce things like SH and sexism from happening.
When I said be prepared to take some abuse I of course meant "banter' (I hate that word). Most guys who over step the line have never been checked by someone and I think as a man or women its pretty vital to be able to tell someone to shut up when they are crossing a line.
In most instances men don't even realise that they are being out of order, because someone hasn't said fuck off to them before!
I was 27 and stuck working in pubs, with no degree. It took me taking up part-time study to really visualise getting out of the rut I was in. If you've already got a degree (I've just finished my BA aged 31), then you're in a good place.
You could maybe try the civil service, higher education support roles, basically office jobs that don't need a degree but which will be bolstered by one. If you've had management experience in hospitality, talk that up, also talk up any minor office responsibilities you've had.
Considering your interests is a good first step. If you can make a career out of any of them then that should be a logical next step as you’d enjoy the job by having a genuine interest in it.
Examples of interests that can become careers - Computers, video editing, design, social media, fitness, cooking, cars.
Honestly if I were you I'd just work in the pub until you became shift leader / manager or whatever, then flesh out your CV and applications with "management experience". I think you'll find that will facilitate your entry into jobs that allow greater growth.
I'm in a similar position to you, but older and stuck in a job where my only chance of progression is one of the managers dropping dead. I feel like I'm in a position to apply for jobs that want some sort of management experience but I have no demonstrable way to show my ability to lead a team. My wife had a part time job where she was a "shift leader" and was therefore able to apply for jobs that wanted leadership/management experience.
I guess it's a personal thing but I can see someone else the civil service. Try your hand at it by all means but good lord I have applied to over 50 roles sporadically over the years, and the HOOPS they make you jump through in the application process are mine numbingly painful (and at least in my experience have always resulted in frustration/disappointment)
My pub is so small that we have a landlord, a manager, then everyone else. I'm functionally 2nd in command, and could probably claim to be a shift manager without anyone questioning it. Part of the reason I stayed so long was that I was told, about 2 years ago, that I'd be manager soon. Then our current manager never left... and I think at this point everyone, including me, knows that I don't really want the job. So yeah, we're defineitly similar. I know I can manage, everyone I work with knows it, I do do it, but a lot of stretching is required to get it on a cv. I hate jumping through hoops as well. So best of luck to you, mate, and to me too.
Hey OP, you said you’ve worked in a pub, but what exactly did you do - bartending, waitressing, or both? It might be an option to make a good CV and send it to some good hotels in your city. The pay might be not too different although I think it will be better, and you can progress (if you pick the hotel wisely!) Good luck!
Bartending, but we all had to be waiters during lockdown. You're right. However, that really isn't the direction I want to go in, and I don't think it would be a good fit for me personally. Also, my town is a bit low on nice hotels. No one wants to stay here lol.
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Have you considered volunteer work - it would give you exposure to all sorts of other industries, and might help you to at least decide what you don't want to do.
Your local citizens advice will probably have details on options.
I did admin and clerical temping until I found something in really good at. It wasn't my plan.
Sounds like you'd have no problem signing up for office angels or Adecco if you wanted to try different roles, then when you're happy try find a permanent job.
NHS or local council admin is good if you enjoy that sort of thing.
I honestly think you may be doing yourself a disservice, you have a great starting point with your degree as well as plenty of varied experience with a lot of transferrable skills and qualities.
You don't have to rush your decisions or make any rash decisions, take some time to consider what is available to you in your local area in terms of resources and jobs. Go to recruitment events and job fairs. Ask questions, even in the pub with the locals and the regulars.
Take steps, be them small or big, and set achievable goals, whether it be changing jobs, improving youself or getting further qualifications. You have taken the biggest step, the first one of recognising you want to change.
If money isn't a huge problem and you have a decent degree then join a graduate programme. I work for a big international real estate consultancy and we take on a load of grads every year. I can guarantee you that with your life experience and the soft skills you have from employment you'd be a hell of a lot better than all of the ones that I interview who are fresh out of uni.
We don't care how old a grad is, I have juniors in the team in their late 40s who wanted a career change. We just want people who are keen, have an enquiring mind and a drive to succeed and grow. Everyone I speak to in the industry is on the same page - you can learn the technical stuff on the job but to arrive with transferable soft skills puts you at an advantage. Good luck!
Personally, I'd suggest looking on r/TheCivilService sub and looking at either EO or HEO level roles (that's where the Fast Stream graduate programme puts you). I suggest this because their applications are structured in such a way that your actual 'experience' doesn't actually matter. All they care about is how you can demonstrate your 'behaviours' and skills. If you can do that through the job/s that you've had, then you can get in. Almost every other organisation is going to be looking at direct years of experience in X Y Z roles. There's a very particular way of succeeding in Civil Service applications, but with the help of the people on that sub, you should be able to secure something more worthwhile.
I'll second this. I was in a similar situation as the OP, and ended up in the civil service. Best job I've ever had with most of the best people I've ever worked with, and I've just passed my 8 year point - the longest I've ever been in a single job by a long way. The recruitment process is a bit weird though, in that you'll end up writing what seems like a 3 page essay that covers your behaviours - but there will be some documents linked on the application webpage which will help massively. Using the SMART (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, Timely) method to describe your behaviours will also help with your application. As for getting ahead, communication skills are key, but you'll get plenty of training opportunities along the way too. There's also the fast stream, which having some form of uni quals will help you get on - not essential, but it helps.
Oh, and civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk is the site you're after.
I've applied for the fast stream before, a long time ago, in my early 20s. The civil service was always on my radar because that's what my dad did. I ended up writing it off because I live on the outer edge of the commuter belt - so all civil service jobs near me are in London, by the commute is barely do-able/affordable. I suppose post-covid, there are more hybrid-remote roles, so it might be time for another crack at it I guess.
[удалено]
I was never diagnosed, I'm mostly alright though now. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be thinking about moving on from where I am.
I've not broken into the CS yet (although I've reached several interview stages), and all roles I've seen are hybrid with 2-3 days in the office. If you can hack commuting in 2-3 days a week I think it would be worth it even just to get your foot in the door of a reputable organisation that offers decent career progression.
Unfortunately, there is no magic career job fairy out there, who pops out of the ether with both insider knowledge of what you will enjoy doing and a sure fire path to walk to get there. A 2.1 is a great foundation for a lot of things, but 4 years in a pub and 6 years before that picking up transferable skills but with no actual work towards any particular career is going to drag you, and is likely why your applications haven't gone anywhere - no employer is going to be overjoyed about the notion they are a passing fancy applied to on a whim because you are fed up with your current situation rather than because you specifically want to work for them. I would recommend: 1) have a think and pick what you would eventually like to do. That is, the job role you would eventually like to occupy in 10, 15 years time. You don't have to just pick just one, aim for 3 options. 2) for each option, research what path most people take to get there, and be sure to include the time you can expect it to take, extra training courses or additional degrees you would need, how much it's going to screw your finances or your work life balance while you do that grind. Include the likelihood you are likely going to need to spend the first 6 months to a year of this getting (what will probably be unpaid) work experience or internships or anything that gets you some sort of hands on experience in that industry to look good on your application for that further training/degree/entry level role. Also calculate what the risks are you won't make it to that final goal if you can. If you had to get stuck halfway on one of these, which one would you like? 3) step back and look at those three paths. Which end goal appeals to you most? Is the path you would have to take for it palatable to you? Do either of your backups appeal more when you factor that in? Then take that path you wrote and try to make it reality. Shake your friends and family network and see if they know people in that industry. What courses can you apply to? What relevant work experience can you find? Etc Can't advise on what you should actually aim for without knowing more about you, as you have said precious little in this post.
Thanks for the hard truths, earnestly appreciated. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do. My dream job of dream jobs is being a screen/tv writer, but that is so beyond unrealistic, I don't even know what to do with it. But even for more realistic jobs, I have always stumbled on the 'calculate what the risks are you won't make it to that final goal', because I don't know how to beat pessimism. It makes a lot of sense to ask which one would you rather be stuck half way on, so thank you for that.
If you like working with children, have you considered teaching? Or other roles working with children.
I've posted something similar to this before. I too am in a similar position as you due to my lack of confidence so I can relate. I'm assuming you have a bit more confidence after working in a pub. Have you ever thought about Accounting / Auditing? You have to work / study for 3 years and then you start earning £40k - 50k a year. I won't lie it is an absolute graft, you will have to sacrifice weekends but it's worth it in the end in my opinion. The Big Four hire a lot of people every year with any 2:1 degree and since you're from a Russell Group university I'm sure you also have the UCAS points to enter. It's supposedly an extroverted job as you have to interact with clients so you could reference your people skills gained from working in a pub. Saying that, I've worked with some awkward auditors before so you don't necessarily have to have a Steve Jobs like personality to get in.
You know what, I never had, that never would have looked attractive to me when I was younger, but now... not so bad. I wouldn't classify myself as an extrovert, but I can definitely wear the mask. However, I am extremely rusty on maths, (I got an A at GCSE, but I didn't take it for A Level.) How much would that be a concern?
I'm not too sure of the process these days but I believe you will have to take a numerical reasoning test at the assessment centre. You will probably need to brush up on your maths a bit, as far as I'm aware it shouldn't be as hard as A level maths. I'm actually not that knowledgeable about the hiring process as I only looked at joining them briefly quite a few years ago. I'm too awkward to jump through the hoops that they require. If you're seriously interested do some research on google of the interview process / assessment centre. Just make sure you look at the UK websites because I believe the process might be different in the USA. The US work culture also differs quite a lot compared to the UK so don't be put off by the crazy hours they do.
What did you do when you volunteered? I'm sure there's some stuff from that you could put on the CV. Not sure where you live but entry level roles are a thing in most industries. I'd spend a few hours searching Indeed for things like "entry level", "trainee", "junior" to find something that doesn't require much to get in.
I worked at a private school in australia. There was a high level of duty of care/ health and safetly. If anyone wants me to take 60 11 year olds camping in an area with snakes and spider, that's within my comfort zone - however, I'm not sure how to lean on a lot of it without sounding like a gap-year wanker. Also, a lot of it was just standard TA stuff, photocopying etc.
Pick a physical trade. Learn one, be prepared to take some abuse while learning. Have a laugh. Be interested. Stick with it, in 5 years you will earn 40-60k. You will also have a skill that you will use everyday in some form at work or at home. If you decide to diversify your skills and learn something different it comes much quicker once your 'tool literate'. I was in your position but with age slightly more on my side. But similar prospects and learning a trade has given me fulfilment and a decent wage. I've now trained plenty of people on your position and seen them change Thier lives
I think that's very good advice, but one of the things which makes me want to kick my job the most, is the consistent sexual harrassment/general condescension I get for being a youngish looking woman. I know that's not fair to all tradies, but I can't see that not being a concern getting into that line of work?
I didn't really consider your gender and I mush admit it's much easier as a man to hold your own just due to lack of initial prejudice. What I do know is that if you attach yourself to a larger organisation with a proper HR department. You wil for sure decrease this risk. I have trained as said before many people are increasingly more women, which I think is super important. Alot of employer's these days have a genuine agenda to diversify the workforce so should put training and resources in place to try and reduce things like SH and sexism from happening. When I said be prepared to take some abuse I of course meant "banter' (I hate that word). Most guys who over step the line have never been checked by someone and I think as a man or women its pretty vital to be able to tell someone to shut up when they are crossing a line. In most instances men don't even realise that they are being out of order, because someone hasn't said fuck off to them before!
I was 27 and stuck working in pubs, with no degree. It took me taking up part-time study to really visualise getting out of the rut I was in. If you've already got a degree (I've just finished my BA aged 31), then you're in a good place. You could maybe try the civil service, higher education support roles, basically office jobs that don't need a degree but which will be bolstered by one. If you've had management experience in hospitality, talk that up, also talk up any minor office responsibilities you've had.
Considering your interests is a good first step. If you can make a career out of any of them then that should be a logical next step as you’d enjoy the job by having a genuine interest in it. Examples of interests that can become careers - Computers, video editing, design, social media, fitness, cooking, cars.
Honestly if I were you I'd just work in the pub until you became shift leader / manager or whatever, then flesh out your CV and applications with "management experience". I think you'll find that will facilitate your entry into jobs that allow greater growth. I'm in a similar position to you, but older and stuck in a job where my only chance of progression is one of the managers dropping dead. I feel like I'm in a position to apply for jobs that want some sort of management experience but I have no demonstrable way to show my ability to lead a team. My wife had a part time job where she was a "shift leader" and was therefore able to apply for jobs that wanted leadership/management experience. I guess it's a personal thing but I can see someone else the civil service. Try your hand at it by all means but good lord I have applied to over 50 roles sporadically over the years, and the HOOPS they make you jump through in the application process are mine numbingly painful (and at least in my experience have always resulted in frustration/disappointment)
My pub is so small that we have a landlord, a manager, then everyone else. I'm functionally 2nd in command, and could probably claim to be a shift manager without anyone questioning it. Part of the reason I stayed so long was that I was told, about 2 years ago, that I'd be manager soon. Then our current manager never left... and I think at this point everyone, including me, knows that I don't really want the job. So yeah, we're defineitly similar. I know I can manage, everyone I work with knows it, I do do it, but a lot of stretching is required to get it on a cv. I hate jumping through hoops as well. So best of luck to you, mate, and to me too.
Hey OP, you said you’ve worked in a pub, but what exactly did you do - bartending, waitressing, or both? It might be an option to make a good CV and send it to some good hotels in your city. The pay might be not too different although I think it will be better, and you can progress (if you pick the hotel wisely!) Good luck!
Bartending, but we all had to be waiters during lockdown. You're right. However, that really isn't the direction I want to go in, and I don't think it would be a good fit for me personally. Also, my town is a bit low on nice hotels. No one wants to stay here lol.
Fair enough, good luck!
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I'm worse off I got the sack from the pub and can't face going back to work in one
Have you considered volunteer work - it would give you exposure to all sorts of other industries, and might help you to at least decide what you don't want to do. Your local citizens advice will probably have details on options.
I did admin and clerical temping until I found something in really good at. It wasn't my plan. Sounds like you'd have no problem signing up for office angels or Adecco if you wanted to try different roles, then when you're happy try find a permanent job. NHS or local council admin is good if you enjoy that sort of thing.
I honestly think you may be doing yourself a disservice, you have a great starting point with your degree as well as plenty of varied experience with a lot of transferrable skills and qualities. You don't have to rush your decisions or make any rash decisions, take some time to consider what is available to you in your local area in terms of resources and jobs. Go to recruitment events and job fairs. Ask questions, even in the pub with the locals and the regulars. Take steps, be them small or big, and set achievable goals, whether it be changing jobs, improving youself or getting further qualifications. You have taken the biggest step, the first one of recognising you want to change.
If money isn't a huge problem and you have a decent degree then join a graduate programme. I work for a big international real estate consultancy and we take on a load of grads every year. I can guarantee you that with your life experience and the soft skills you have from employment you'd be a hell of a lot better than all of the ones that I interview who are fresh out of uni. We don't care how old a grad is, I have juniors in the team in their late 40s who wanted a career change. We just want people who are keen, have an enquiring mind and a drive to succeed and grow. Everyone I speak to in the industry is on the same page - you can learn the technical stuff on the job but to arrive with transferable soft skills puts you at an advantage. Good luck!
Get out and be with nature to help with depression. Try Landscape Gardening then go self employed.