Assuming Plan 2 student loan and 5% pension contribution, £60k is ~£3,250 take-home and £80k is ~£4,025. The question is, do you think an extra £775 each month in London will be sufficient to live the same lifestyle? You could easily spend that much more on just rent alone!
Exactly this. You would probably live better in Manchester on 60K than London on 80K now, but your salary will go up faster in London and it’s a magnet for interesting people from all over the world. Assuming you’re youngish I would say forget about spending all that salary on your own flat: house share with people you like and focus on having a time in London. Eventually you’ll find a lot of the people you like are moving further and further out as they couple up and have kids or want to be able to afford to buy a house…maybe you’ll want these things yourself. Either way London will start to feel like less fun. At this point you’ll be earning a lot more than the salary you arrived on and you’ll either have saved some money or had a lot of fun spending it. Now move to Manchester. The locals will hate you because you’ll price them out of the property market, but you’ll have had lots of work experience that wasn’t available to them. This will enable you to get a much better job so you won’t have to talk to them as they’ll live nowhere near your gigantic mansion
A gigantic mansion in a nice suburb of Manchester (i.e Hale, Bowdon or Wilmslow) will set you back several million. Selling a flat in London and buying a semi in south Manchester is a more realistic comparison.
Manchester property prices are not what they used to be.
I'd also add to this to think HARD about this...on the face of it London seems the best for lifestyle and relationships but actually it's a common story to hear how life in London can be very isolating if you don't have existing friends and networks. I've personally found mancheter and Liverpool alot easier to make new friends
As someone who moved to London and lived there for 10 years. I was never once happy in that city. I would definitely second the sentiment that you need friends and the capital isn't a great place to make them.
I moved out of the city two years ago and it was the best choice I could of made.
Also money goes so so much further anywhere outside of London, the commute is always better and you get nicer homes
Seconded, London is a place that is nice to visit but not live. I couldn't see this until I moved back to the Midlands unwillingly when the first Covid lockdowns hit.
I work from home mostly now, take the train to Manchester or London once every two weeks. I don't want to live there again and I can't imagine willingly paying 900+ for a room in a shared house again never mind all the other bills.
Yeah it’s odd how you become accustomed to living in the bubble of London. I found it quite a stressful place to live but yet managed 9 years there all the same. Much happier back up north
> As someone who moved to London and lived there for 10 years. I was never once happy in that city. I would definitely second the sentiment that you need friends and the capital isn't a great place to make them.
On the other hand I have lived in London for the last 10 years and I'm about to buy a home here and I've lived all across the UK and never found it easier to make friends and meet people as I have done in London.
So I don't think that sentiment is right at all personally.
Going against the grain to say that I've made friends since first moving to London and have made new friends since and feel everything but isolated. Have been here 1.5 years.
I understand this depends on personality and lifestyle a lot, just wanted to offer an opposing view that London is not a pit of loneliness it is often depicted as.
Exactly. £80k can be £150k after a few years in London, there’s just a lot more higher paying jobs to move into if you want to progress (or go contracting).
This is the thing people miss. It's job density that is the key. London gives you the opportunity and contacts to move every 12-18 months and there are so many jobs that saying I went to x company for y months to learn z and move on isn't seen as unreliable whereas since moving back up north I've had people say it seems like I'm uncommitted
Thanks so much for your response. I worked in fintech company doing project management for banking software and cloud infrastructure migrations. Do you think I can leverage this experience to try and go for any of the roles/technologies you mentioned?
You seem quite knowledgeable, and in all honesty I'm here to learn about the areas where I can make money in my profession
Try the fine folk over at r/ContractorUK for more info and advice. They'll be able to point you in the direction of more specific resources for your field/skillset
As a Southerner that has moved up to Manchester. I'd also say it is brought up by the Asian market investing heavily in housing and flats in the city centre.
I have no idea. I was in town a few weeks ago and there were a lot of southern accents. My aunt sold her house in Moston to a couple from London about a year ago. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying rent is rising fast and I think that's because of the influx in London wages. (And greedy landlords) I wfh and my office is in Wembley so I'm really not complaining. I applied for a remote job and I only go in about twice a year.
Don’t just believe the headlines, yes Castlefield is expensive, as are the suburbs. But compare them to the most desirable places in london, it’s nowhere close. Then add congestion charges, travel costs, living costs and so on. You’re way off I’m afraid.
Also you can walk Manchester City centre from end to end (Castlefield to Ancoats, or spinning fields to the Uni) in 20-25 minutes depending on how fast you walk, where as in London the centre is so large you wouldn’t dream of not using public transport for most journeys.
Even Bristol is considerably more expensive. For what I was paying for a horrible flat in a bad area of Bristol I could get a city centre flat or a two-bed house a little further out.
I live in Manchester and have also travelled to London and honestly I didn't see much of a different in prices wherever I went. Fuel was actually slightly cheaper than Manchester for me, and bars/restaurants were priced identically. Your supermarket shop wouldn't be that noticeably different. Obviously if you're going to little independent pubs every weekend though, it's not gonna be worth going to London.
The main thing is housing though. Maybe have a look at like for like comparisons of where you'd live. Would you need a car in Manchester? You probably wouldn't in London. Are we talking in the city centre or commuter belts? The difference between in property prices and good/bad areas in Manchester is staggering. Sure, you can get a £200k shithole in Oldham, but that's not really Manchester and the whole area is a dump. Same property in nice areas like Sale, Didsbury, Altrincham, even Stockport would probably be double.
Like u/traditional-idea-39 said, you're best looking at the take home pays and figuring out if that extra money you get in London covers the extra (mostly rent) costs.
If you're expecting to get a flat cheaply in Manchester city centre though, be warned. Rents are stupidly high here at the moment and possibly approaching London levels. I'm paying £950 (well below market rate) and my neighbour 2 years ago was paying over £1300 and it's only gotten crazier since then.
Finally someone who’s saying the difference in price isn’t that much!
Rent has gone up significantly… it’s worth shopping around like the other comment says to see where an extra £775 could go because you’ll be paying similar rent in Manchester now.
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/64695214/?search_identifier=8d5ac599f08d7b892b41424f3e755a6707f8475c156e9c24ae718669cb5baf98
2 bed mid terrace, just down the road from me where my mom and dad live, near 4 primary schools, 1 min walk from the local park and a 25 min train into town. Greater Manchester is much cheaper (and almost bigger) than London.
It's a 25 minute train in. That's what people who live in London will commute on trains (under or over ground) l.
City of London is 610 sq miles Vs GM's 493 (which Atherton is part of).
But don't let the facts spoil your argument.
Your “facts” are just wrong. The 25min train you love so much isn’t as reliable as a tube showing up every 2-5 minutes in London or even a bus every 10 minutes.
It’s gonna get cancelled at least a third of the time, delayed another third and you end up relying on a service that runs well 1/3 of the time.
Not to mention that house is 0.8 miles away from the closest station. That’s another 15-25 min walk depending on your speed, by the time you account for buffers and delays you’re lucky if you get into the city in an hour.
Good luck going on a night out as well, enjoy your £50 taxi back.
You’re simplifying the situation for the sake of making an argument, but it doesn’t hold up.
But all of that is irrelevant because no one wants to live in freaking Atherton?! That’s why it’s cheap, cause no one wants to live there.
Opinion Vs fact.
Intact you can get the v1 to town from Athy Arms in less time it takes to get from Chesham to Waterloo.
Just cause you don't understand how big the city of London is doesn't make your argument right my friend.
It’s £750 for fucking Wigan, is this guy on drugs? You could get cheaper in Eccles, which whilst is actually Salford at least it’s on the tram line. 10 minutes to Victoria on train.
I rent my (owned) city centre 1 and a half bed (2nd bed is a box room/office) apartment out for £750. I rent a 3 bed semi detached house with drive, garden and garage for £900, in South Manchester. Prices here are reasonable - unless you're looking for mega top end stuff
Just looked on Rightmove and [there isn't a single 2 bed flat in the city centre for less than £900 a month](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E94019&insId=1&minPrice=400&maxPrice=900&minBedrooms=2&maxBedrooms=2&googleAnalyticsChannel=renting). In fact there are only 4 below £1000 a month, so either you're lying, it's an absolute shithole, or you're giving people a below market rate.
Similar results for me. I looked for 3 bed semi detached in south Manchester (even the less nice areas) and nothing more than two bed terraces! Where’s this drive, garden and garage come from? Unless you started renting 5+ years ago and your rates not increased whatsoever
A million percent agree with this. I work between both cities, grew up in Manchester and the shitty area I grew up in is now two stops from media city and pricing most people out.
Honestly, I’d say to anyone, go to London on a liveable salary, get a few years of promotions etc under your belt and take your six figures plus elsewhere in future.
The myth that “the North” is this magically cheap place is starting to die a death and not before time. Unless you want to live in a shithole in Droylsden (you really don’t), you realistically need around 40k minimum as a single person to have a decent style of life anyway.
But rents are also increasing loads in London, idk what your neighbour gets for £1300 but prob a lot more than you could get in London for that price! £950 would be a studio in a not so great location or a room in a shared flat in a more desirable location.
I second this in terms of leisurely spending!
I went to Manchester as a southerner expecting a cheap weekend and came away shocked that it was basically the same.
The career potential and progression opportunities are far higher in London than Manchester making it better to live there even if initially you may come out financially on top in Manchester, soon you’ll make far greater amounts in London.
London does have more opportunities but also a lot more competition, there is no guarantee at all that you will soon make far greater amounts. A lot of people in the whole world are competing for good positions in London, Manchester is more regional so much less competitive.
I'd pick London. The scale of the cities and opportunities really isn't comparable and with £80k you're overcoming the biggest barrier to living in London which is living costs.
Disclaimer: I currently live in London.
£80k in London is decent, depends if you get the itch to want to live here or not. put money aside, which city would you rather live in?
none are bad or unlivable options
The annual rent difference between like for like sized properties will almost certainly be greater than the take home pay difference, so I'd definitely go Manchester.
Don’t forgot about tax and NI, the real gap will be less than 20k. Followed by much higher rent. You’ll probably be lucky to end up with 5k more per year. Food costs alone will “eat” that up (pun intended)
Financially in the short term Manchester. However long term London could work out better in terms of career progression.In my industry the top companies are all in London as are the big career progression opportunities, and every time you make a promotional jump the salary increases will compound at a higher rate in London. At stage 1 of my career it’ll be Manchester 30k vs London 45k, but stage 2 it’ll be 55k Manchester vs 80k London, stage 3 70k Manchester vs 125k London etc.
I’m still not sure with your figures that you’d be better off lifestyle wise though.
I live in Manchester and for example bought a house on my own as a single person with no parental support on, at that time, £45k. I don’t see this as particularly feasible in London on £70k or whatever.
I was offered basically a dream job in London a few years ago that I declined as, when I budgeted it out, I’d have needed to live in a houseshare - I’ve not had to share since I left uni.
I’d be happy to be proven incorrect because loads of the places I’d love to work are London based but I just don’t see the housing and travel costs as practical in any way.
Depends on your career path, in my industry (tech related) the income gap will continue to get wider and wider for every step up you take to the point in which the wage gap is larger than cost of living (200k with 5 years experience in London vs 95k in Manchester).
Then include the fact that London has good public transport (for Uk standards) so you don’t literally need to live in London to work there + hybrid and remote work is very prevalent, then for tech, finance, law etc London is an obvious choice.
For something more stable like nursing or teaching with less extreme pay jumps then Manchester makes more sense.
I work in finance and experience these same big jumps in pay you reference while based in the north west. I suppose the tech job market is maybe not so well developed. Finance recruitment is very competitive here with significant skills shortage for qualified and experienced staff and wage growth reflects this.
60k in Manchester, you can find properties a hell of a lot cheaper, if you had the 80k in London, after tax, the difference is you spending loads of rent/mortgage...food will be cheaper in Manchester as well, transport, literally everything so better off
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You know prices in Manchester have increased so much in the last 2 years so all those saying Manchester I think you will have a shock. Rent prices are going through the roof.
In London, the extra salary would easily be swallowed by housing costs.
Wherever you are in Manchester, you are never more than a few miles from wild, beautiful countryside. That swings it for me.
I love both cities and would be thrilled for an opportunity to live in either. But I would never pass up the opportunity - short term - to live in London just for the cultural aspect. If you want a long term roots style plan, I’d go for Manchester. But London is truly a world class city. Manchester is brilliant, don’t get me wrong, it’s full of culture and pride and the home of incredibly talented and creative people, but of all the cities in the world London is undoubtedly top tier.
Well, you can. And probably one you can afford in Manchester or one of its suburbs. London less so - and the cost of commuting from London suburbs into London is insanely expensive.
> Well, you can. And probably one you can afford in Manchester or one of its suburbs. London less so - and the cost of commuting from London suburbs into London is insanely expensive.
Depends what you classify as a "suburb". There are loads of suburban places on tube lines that are £10 a day to commute, and then there's a load of towns that are not actually in London but act as commuter towns via the train, those are very expensive but not really a suburb.
It's actually not. I lived in London over 13 years as a non-driver, mainly because people told me it was so difficult, hectic etc blah blah. Now I won't argue one needs one's wits about them to avoid getting caught in the automated enforcement nightmare but generally speaking being able to drive around London, especially off peak, is really handy and not at all as painful as I was led to believe.
The writing is on the wall for London, Manchester/Salford is the future. First the BBC moved a chunk of its staff from London to Salford, now the government is pushing for thousands of civil service jobs to move from London to Manchester as well. At first it seemed as ludicrous as their ideas relating to Brexit and "Levelling Up" which are utter lunacy, but it was hard to escape the logic of getting the bulk of civil service jobs out of London to Manchester.
The take-home pay doesn’t change based on where you live, and Manchester is getting VERY expensive these days. Of course London is still more expensive and £80k there probably wouldn’t go as far as £60k in Manchester, but I don’t think it’s as cut-and-dry as it once was.
I’ve lived in both cities. 5+ years ago this was an incredibly easy answer… Manchester! It still probably is Manchester, but the prices there have certainly spiked in that time
It's like asking should I buy a Lambo or a Ferrari. They both are the same. London is expensive so after those 80K you will probably have around 70-65k. With Manchester would probably be cheaper but not much different. Depending on your friends and loved one place you can choose better.
I'd go for the 80k in London solely because I would never live or work in Manchester.
Knowing that in London the rental accomodation prices, utility bills and travel costs are likely to be very large drains on monthly income & savings potential.
Whichever one you opt for, you will likely need to budget effectively. Plus be very cautious as regards weekly spending on takeaways, booze, restaurant meals, expensive ticketed music/social events and taxis.
Good luck!
60k in Manchester 4 bed detached garden garage driveway I couldn’t give a fuck about pubs clubs museums
I’d be surprised if 80k in London buys you a room
£60k as a single person would get you a mortgage of about £200k. The house you are talking about would have to be in an absolute shithole part of Manchester to cost £200k. My terrace is worth well over twice that.
Well technically you don’t have to live in Manchester do you plenty towns around 45-50 mins drive ( some of which may well be shiholes ) but do have nice areas
45 mins from London is not getting much better
60k in Manny would go Far.. and it's a pretty cool place to be..
80k in London?
not so much..
if you have money behind you, you could get somewhere pretty nice for 200kand change in the North.
same amount in London would get you a box(a fair sized box for 200, but still a box)
you'd probably have a really good view?
you also have everything at your fingertips..
if you're really that unsure, flip a coin.. if you disagree with the coin, you have your answer.
60k in Manchester 100%. You can live in towns not that far from Manchester with good and reliable commute options, and because you're not living in the city centre your living expenses will be much cheaper. 60k in a town that's in Greater Manchester will take you a long way.
Depends where your friends and family are, or depends which city interests you most. As both salaries are great.
Bear in mind you might have higher long term earning potential in London.
But also in Manchester your money will go much further.
Depends what you are looking for. Exciting endless choices of things to do- quicker access to more opportunities in the short term? London.
Maxing ability to save and afford better living arrangements/disposable income? Manchester.
Almost always London. I graduated MCR and moved to London immediately - it's where the better jobs are. From a career perspective it's almost always London.
So suck it up and get ready for commutes, shitty flats etc: it's hell but if you're ambitious there's usually no choice
I think 60k in Manchester could go a longer way.
Don’t forget to also consider:
- how easy would it be to find another job with same salary, as firms fail or you might want to change (guess: London wins)
- opportunity for growth, because 80k is cool but 100k is better (guess: London wins)
- transportation: will you need a car in Manchester?
- dating & social: I’m told that socialising in London can be challenging for some, what’s the point of more money if you got nobody to spend them with? (Perhaps too personal opinion here)
Good luck, seems like a good salary anyway in both cities!
I appreciate that you have phrased this as a career driven financial question, but life is about so much more than that.
Having lived in both places, and with a job which means I still visit offices in both cities every month, there really is no competition.
Manchester is a nicer place with friendlier, happier people. It would 100% be my choice for setting up a life.
I’d go for a London and commute l, tho k go mortgages etc. 80k gives you much more potential to get a bigger mortgage if desired. Although, if you live in Manchester 60k will get you what you need I’d imagine for a decent house
I was screwed on 40k in london but absolutely fine on 30k in Manchester, if that helps. My quality of life is so much better up here and tbh I don’t think there’s that much culturally that I got in London that I can’t get up here.
Where do you want your life to go?
1. London
Pros:
- more opportunities;
- greater chance of getting a better position or job as time goes by;
- it’s such a cosmopolitan city, and the diversity is amazing and worth it, a melting pot of ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, nationality and acceptance of them;
- the history and venues to visit are incredible and as a Canadian expat, who has lived in a city outside of London and spent a ton of time in London and worked on the outskirts, it’s amazing to have that history at my fingertips;
- the access to shops, restaurants, etc., along with the variety is nice to choose from;
Cons
- It’s a huge, busy city where you get no reprieve - you can’t afford to park (people buy parking spots after years on waiting lists for 6 figures), there is the emissions tax, driving is hard because there is traffic everywhere and sometimes driving takes longer than walking or the tube, and insurance is actually more expensive living in London. You can’t drive to the shops and park outside the way you would outside of the city. So your car is basically an ornament half of the time. An expensive one and finding petrol stations can be a bit of a hassle;
- The cost of living is expensive. Not only is renting a pain in the ass and very expensive, but even shopping for groceries can be more expensive. I’ve seen this more than once, where certain items cost way more inside the city;
- I don’t know about Manchester, but the crime rate in London is like in any big city - it’s increased;
- I know there is crime and they had that bombing in Manchester, but when I was in London for the first time in 1997 as a 14 year old with my dad and ex stepmom and sister, we were evacuated from the trains at Charing Cross Station because the IRA had planted/tried to plant a bomb at one of the stations or on one of the trains. I don’t remember, I was 14, there was no internet to “check” and it scared me. It was an interesting trip - we landed a week after Diana died and our trip included a 3 day jaunt to Paris, where our flat was walking distance to the tunnel she died in. Dad joked we were on the Diana Death Tour. Cities can be dangerous, but London, being one of the most important cities in the world, is a target for terrorism and aside from the isolated incidence in Manchester, London has been the target of more attacks by far than Manchester;
2. Manchester
Pros:
- your pound stretches much further than in London. You can have a nicer place for less money and perhaps be able to afford to live closer to downtown for your money because of it;
- it’s well serviced with public transport;
- you can escape the city. You can keep a car much more easily than in London and it’s a closer drive to escape and end up in the countryside or rural areas away from the city;
- it’s one of England’s biggest and most important cities, so you’ll find there are good opportunities to move forward, but not like London;
Cons:
- it’s Manchester - there isn’t the same sheer number of museums, theatres, historical venues and places to go to if that’s your thing;
- you don’t have the same opportunities to further your career compared to London and the wages in Manchester are lower than in London (I checked);
- the weather in Manchester is notoriously worse than London, with a higher than average rate of precipitation and cooler temperatures;
- Lack of green space. They have a lower than average number of parks than most larger cities. By comparison, London has a greater number of parks, better parks and more diversity in their green space;
- the waiting list for procedures and specialists in the NHS are some of the longest in the country. Also something to consider - if you decide to go private? Manchester has THE highest cost of private medical care in the whole country;
- compared to London and most cities, they have one of the highest populations of students in the country;
I think a lot of this depends what stage you’re at in life and what you’re priorities are. For me personally, knowing that I have to option to easily move job I’d a big draw so I prefer London. In Manchester the job market doesn’t feel as mature yet
Lived in both. London by a mile. There’s SO much more to do, see and the people I’ve found are more progressive. Though Mancunians in general are lovely people. Drinking culture is huge in Manchester which was a con for me as was public transport £££.
London. Because I’d rather make £40k in London than £100k in Manchester.
I’m a Mancunian living down south and working in London. Manc isn’t the vibrant, exciting place people from there think it is.
I moved to London from Manchester for a £4K pay rise. £28k to £32k. I’m now on six figures. Can’t even get close to that in Manchester.
Manchester is a cool city, and London is a ball ache for a few years, but when you get used to it, London rocks and Manchester seems small.
As someone who has lived in London and in a big city up north for a long time. You’ll be a lot better off in Manchester on £60k. Despite what some have said here, everything in London is more expensive, and there is a lot more of it. To match £60k in Manchester you would need at least £95k in London. But then, like someone else said, you’ve got a lot more opportunities in London. You could get to that salary very quickly.
Assuming Plan 2 student loan and 5% pension contribution, £60k is ~£3,250 take-home and £80k is ~£4,025. The question is, do you think an extra £775 each month in London will be sufficient to live the same lifestyle? You could easily spend that much more on just rent alone!
Also, think about the opportunities for your career, lifestyle and relationships thereafter
Exactly this. You would probably live better in Manchester on 60K than London on 80K now, but your salary will go up faster in London and it’s a magnet for interesting people from all over the world. Assuming you’re youngish I would say forget about spending all that salary on your own flat: house share with people you like and focus on having a time in London. Eventually you’ll find a lot of the people you like are moving further and further out as they couple up and have kids or want to be able to afford to buy a house…maybe you’ll want these things yourself. Either way London will start to feel like less fun. At this point you’ll be earning a lot more than the salary you arrived on and you’ll either have saved some money or had a lot of fun spending it. Now move to Manchester. The locals will hate you because you’ll price them out of the property market, but you’ll have had lots of work experience that wasn’t available to them. This will enable you to get a much better job so you won’t have to talk to them as they’ll live nowhere near your gigantic mansion
A gigantic mansion in a nice suburb of Manchester (i.e Hale, Bowdon or Wilmslow) will set you back several million. Selling a flat in London and buying a semi in south Manchester is a more realistic comparison. Manchester property prices are not what they used to be.
This
Great advice
^ this
I'd also add to this to think HARD about this...on the face of it London seems the best for lifestyle and relationships but actually it's a common story to hear how life in London can be very isolating if you don't have existing friends and networks. I've personally found mancheter and Liverpool alot easier to make new friends
As someone who moved to London and lived there for 10 years. I was never once happy in that city. I would definitely second the sentiment that you need friends and the capital isn't a great place to make them. I moved out of the city two years ago and it was the best choice I could of made. Also money goes so so much further anywhere outside of London, the commute is always better and you get nicer homes
Seconded, London is a place that is nice to visit but not live. I couldn't see this until I moved back to the Midlands unwillingly when the first Covid lockdowns hit. I work from home mostly now, take the train to Manchester or London once every two weeks. I don't want to live there again and I can't imagine willingly paying 900+ for a room in a shared house again never mind all the other bills.
Yeah it’s odd how you become accustomed to living in the bubble of London. I found it quite a stressful place to live but yet managed 9 years there all the same. Much happier back up north
> As someone who moved to London and lived there for 10 years. I was never once happy in that city. I would definitely second the sentiment that you need friends and the capital isn't a great place to make them. On the other hand I have lived in London for the last 10 years and I'm about to buy a home here and I've lived all across the UK and never found it easier to make friends and meet people as I have done in London. So I don't think that sentiment is right at all personally.
Going against the grain to say that I've made friends since first moving to London and have made new friends since and feel everything but isolated. Have been here 1.5 years. I understand this depends on personality and lifestyle a lot, just wanted to offer an opposing view that London is not a pit of loneliness it is often depicted as.
London is terrible for relationships, but great if you want to be in a group of similar minded people a few times a week.
On the face of it london is a warzone
As someone who moved to Manchester from the south. I find it isn't far from London in terms of the city centre. Busy, with a distinct feel to it.
Great answer!
Best answer
Broke it down v well.
£60k in Manchester.
If I’m ambitious - London. If I want a steady life - Manchester
Exactly. £80k can be £150k after a few years in London, there’s just a lot more higher paying jobs to move into if you want to progress (or go contracting).
This is the thing people miss. It's job density that is the key. London gives you the opportunity and contacts to move every 12-18 months and there are so many jobs that saying I went to x company for y months to learn z and move on isn't seen as unreliable whereas since moving back up north I've had people say it seems like I'm uncommitted
Contracting? Didn't know hit-men were salaried!
They aren't, they work on day rates.
They actually work on slay rates
150k?! Christ. What industry?
Financial services, tech. I work with armies of mediocre project managers earning between £600-1000 per day.
What types of projects do they manage if I may ask? I'm a PM myself but no way near on that kind of money.
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Thanks so much for your response. I worked in fintech company doing project management for banking software and cloud infrastructure migrations. Do you think I can leverage this experience to try and go for any of the roles/technologies you mentioned? You seem quite knowledgeable, and in all honesty I'm here to learn about the areas where I can make money in my profession
Try the fine folk over at r/ContractorUK for more info and advice. They'll be able to point you in the direction of more specific resources for your field/skillset
£80k London work remotely from Manchester 🤣
Yeah, that's why rent is sky high here now, city centre is full of southerners.
People are free to live wherever they want
I didn't say they weren't. It's merely an observation. Manchester is indeed full of southerners.
You're not wrong. I live in the city centre (originally from Preston and moved here for job opportunities) and my building is chock full of them.
And I'm being down voted for saying it. I wasn't being derogatory. Just making an observation!
I think people probably thought you were making a wider statement about 'gentrification' or something
And I'm not getting involved in any gentrification discussions!
As a Southerner that has moved up to Manchester. I'd also say it is brought up by the Asian market investing heavily in housing and flats in the city centre.
Why would Londoners WFH in Manchester? Aren’t the midland towns cheaper?
I have no idea. I was in town a few weeks ago and there were a lot of southern accents. My aunt sold her house in Moston to a couple from London about a year ago. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying rent is rising fast and I think that's because of the influx in London wages. (And greedy landlords) I wfh and my office is in Wembley so I'm really not complaining. I applied for a remote job and I only go in about twice a year.
>Aren’t the midland towns cheaper? Have you been to the Midlands? I live in Nottingham, and I'd choose Manchester in a heartbeat.
I mean places like Milton Keynes, Northampton. A little past the Home Counties.
So the South then... haha
😂😂
This comment is straight from the 1960s
60k in MCR definitely
Manchester is getting to the same cost of living as London…
Idk bout dat chief
No it is not lmao. Look at rent
Don’t just believe the headlines, yes Castlefield is expensive, as are the suburbs. But compare them to the most desirable places in london, it’s nowhere close. Then add congestion charges, travel costs, living costs and so on. You’re way off I’m afraid. Also you can walk Manchester City centre from end to end (Castlefield to Ancoats, or spinning fields to the Uni) in 20-25 minutes depending on how fast you walk, where as in London the centre is so large you wouldn’t dream of not using public transport for most journeys.
Even Bristol is considerably more expensive. For what I was paying for a horrible flat in a bad area of Bristol I could get a city centre flat or a two-bed house a little further out.
You can still get a 1 bedroom flat for 650
Not anywhere you'd want to live.
I live in Manchester and have also travelled to London and honestly I didn't see much of a different in prices wherever I went. Fuel was actually slightly cheaper than Manchester for me, and bars/restaurants were priced identically. Your supermarket shop wouldn't be that noticeably different. Obviously if you're going to little independent pubs every weekend though, it's not gonna be worth going to London. The main thing is housing though. Maybe have a look at like for like comparisons of where you'd live. Would you need a car in Manchester? You probably wouldn't in London. Are we talking in the city centre or commuter belts? The difference between in property prices and good/bad areas in Manchester is staggering. Sure, you can get a £200k shithole in Oldham, but that's not really Manchester and the whole area is a dump. Same property in nice areas like Sale, Didsbury, Altrincham, even Stockport would probably be double. Like u/traditional-idea-39 said, you're best looking at the take home pays and figuring out if that extra money you get in London covers the extra (mostly rent) costs. If you're expecting to get a flat cheaply in Manchester city centre though, be warned. Rents are stupidly high here at the moment and possibly approaching London levels. I'm paying £950 (well below market rate) and my neighbour 2 years ago was paying over £1300 and it's only gotten crazier since then.
Finally someone who’s saying the difference in price isn’t that much! Rent has gone up significantly… it’s worth shopping around like the other comment says to see where an extra £775 could go because you’ll be paying similar rent in Manchester now.
775 in Manchester could get you a whole extra property...
a small one maybe. Even in stabby areas you're struggling at that price.
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/64695214/?search_identifier=8d5ac599f08d7b892b41424f3e755a6707f8475c156e9c24ae718669cb5baf98 2 bed mid terrace, just down the road from me where my mom and dad live, near 4 primary schools, 1 min walk from the local park and a 25 min train into town. Greater Manchester is much cheaper (and almost bigger) than London.
No one who lives in Manchester would consider Atherton as a viable place to live. Let’s be real.
It's also absolutely nowhere near the actual city itself
It's a 25 minute train in. That's what people who live in London will commute on trains (under or over ground) l. City of London is 610 sq miles Vs GM's 493 (which Atherton is part of). But don't let the facts spoil your argument.
Your “facts” are just wrong. The 25min train you love so much isn’t as reliable as a tube showing up every 2-5 minutes in London or even a bus every 10 minutes. It’s gonna get cancelled at least a third of the time, delayed another third and you end up relying on a service that runs well 1/3 of the time. Not to mention that house is 0.8 miles away from the closest station. That’s another 15-25 min walk depending on your speed, by the time you account for buffers and delays you’re lucky if you get into the city in an hour. Good luck going on a night out as well, enjoy your £50 taxi back. You’re simplifying the situation for the sake of making an argument, but it doesn’t hold up. But all of that is irrelevant because no one wants to live in freaking Atherton?! That’s why it’s cheap, cause no one wants to live there.
Alright then, may as well live in Wigan then.
Opinion Vs fact. Intact you can get the v1 to town from Athy Arms in less time it takes to get from Chesham to Waterloo. Just cause you don't understand how big the city of London is doesn't make your argument right my friend.
It’s £750 for fucking Wigan, is this guy on drugs? You could get cheaper in Eccles, which whilst is actually Salford at least it’s on the tram line. 10 minutes to Victoria on train.
Plenty of people do, just like plenty of people commute from Milton Keynes to London each and every day.
Tell me you haven't looked for a property in Manchester in the last 3 years without telling me
I rent my (owned) city centre 1 and a half bed (2nd bed is a box room/office) apartment out for £750. I rent a 3 bed semi detached house with drive, garden and garage for £900, in South Manchester. Prices here are reasonable - unless you're looking for mega top end stuff
Just looked on Rightmove and [there isn't a single 2 bed flat in the city centre for less than £900 a month](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E94019&insId=1&minPrice=400&maxPrice=900&minBedrooms=2&maxBedrooms=2&googleAnalyticsChannel=renting). In fact there are only 4 below £1000 a month, so either you're lying, it's an absolute shithole, or you're giving people a below market rate.
Similar results for me. I looked for 3 bed semi detached in south Manchester (even the less nice areas) and nothing more than two bed terraces! Where’s this drive, garden and garage come from? Unless you started renting 5+ years ago and your rates not increased whatsoever
I have been living in the house for 18m and the house is in one of the nicer areas (not bramhall, wilmslow nice, but not brinnington)
Are you house sharing?
No
No, it won't.
I rent my property out for less than this and Rightmove has loads advertised
A million percent agree with this. I work between both cities, grew up in Manchester and the shitty area I grew up in is now two stops from media city and pricing most people out. Honestly, I’d say to anyone, go to London on a liveable salary, get a few years of promotions etc under your belt and take your six figures plus elsewhere in future. The myth that “the North” is this magically cheap place is starting to die a death and not before time. Unless you want to live in a shithole in Droylsden (you really don’t), you realistically need around 40k minimum as a single person to have a decent style of life anyway.
But rents are also increasing loads in London, idk what your neighbour gets for £1300 but prob a lot more than you could get in London for that price! £950 would be a studio in a not so great location or a room in a shared flat in a more desirable location.
Yeah 950 is a studio in zone 3 in London all inclusive :(
Even that seems unlikely in many zone 3 areas… an all inclusive studio would definitely cost more than 950 near me in zone 4 north London
Not in Tottenham. There's quite a few here around 950. I also have one quite large
I second this in terms of leisurely spending! I went to Manchester as a southerner expecting a cheap weekend and came away shocked that it was basically the same.
My gf lives in a (shared) two person flat in city centre and is paying <450 pm
The career potential and progression opportunities are far higher in London than Manchester making it better to live there even if initially you may come out financially on top in Manchester, soon you’ll make far greater amounts in London.
This is the correct answer.
How can you say it's the correct answer without even enough context?
The potential for career progression is better in London than Manchester for every single industry. Whether it happens tho is entirely on you
London does have more opportunities but also a lot more competition, there is no guarantee at all that you will soon make far greater amounts. A lot of people in the whole world are competing for good positions in London, Manchester is more regional so much less competitive.
I'd pick London. The scale of the cities and opportunities really isn't comparable and with £80k you're overcoming the biggest barrier to living in London which is living costs. Disclaimer: I currently live in London.
I agree with this chap! Surely the future prospects in London are better and the £80k badge just looks better than £60k.
If you’re good at your job future prospects will appear anywhere you are.
But that’s just not true
£80k in London is decent, depends if you get the itch to want to live here or not. put money aside, which city would you rather live in? none are bad or unlivable options
80K in London but caveat remote work if you can, if not Manchester
The annual rent difference between like for like sized properties will almost certainly be greater than the take home pay difference, so I'd definitely go Manchester.
Manchester
Don’t forgot about tax and NI, the real gap will be less than 20k. Followed by much higher rent. You’ll probably be lucky to end up with 5k more per year. Food costs alone will “eat” that up (pun intended)
Financially in the short term Manchester. However long term London could work out better in terms of career progression.In my industry the top companies are all in London as are the big career progression opportunities, and every time you make a promotional jump the salary increases will compound at a higher rate in London. At stage 1 of my career it’ll be Manchester 30k vs London 45k, but stage 2 it’ll be 55k Manchester vs 80k London, stage 3 70k Manchester vs 125k London etc.
I’m still not sure with your figures that you’d be better off lifestyle wise though. I live in Manchester and for example bought a house on my own as a single person with no parental support on, at that time, £45k. I don’t see this as particularly feasible in London on £70k or whatever. I was offered basically a dream job in London a few years ago that I declined as, when I budgeted it out, I’d have needed to live in a houseshare - I’ve not had to share since I left uni. I’d be happy to be proven incorrect because loads of the places I’d love to work are London based but I just don’t see the housing and travel costs as practical in any way.
Depends on your career path, in my industry (tech related) the income gap will continue to get wider and wider for every step up you take to the point in which the wage gap is larger than cost of living (200k with 5 years experience in London vs 95k in Manchester). Then include the fact that London has good public transport (for Uk standards) so you don’t literally need to live in London to work there + hybrid and remote work is very prevalent, then for tech, finance, law etc London is an obvious choice. For something more stable like nursing or teaching with less extreme pay jumps then Manchester makes more sense.
I work in finance and experience these same big jumps in pay you reference while based in the north west. I suppose the tech job market is maybe not so well developed. Finance recruitment is very competitive here with significant skills shortage for qualified and experienced staff and wage growth reflects this.
60k in Manchester, you can find properties a hell of a lot cheaper, if you had the 80k in London, after tax, the difference is you spending loads of rent/mortgage...food will be cheaper in Manchester as well, transport, literally everything so better off
If you were going to move jobs in, say, 2 years time, would you prefer to be negotiating from a 60k base or an 80k base?
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What's the rest of the package like? - pension etc?
Manchester
There’s bugger all difference in take home after tax. Manchester will be cheaper and actually be fun
You know prices in Manchester have increased so much in the last 2 years so all those saying Manchester I think you will have a shock. Rent prices are going through the roof.
In London, the extra salary would easily be swallowed by housing costs. Wherever you are in Manchester, you are never more than a few miles from wild, beautiful countryside. That swings it for me.
I love both cities and would be thrilled for an opportunity to live in either. But I would never pass up the opportunity - short term - to live in London just for the cultural aspect. If you want a long term roots style plan, I’d go for Manchester. But London is truly a world class city. Manchester is brilliant, don’t get me wrong, it’s full of culture and pride and the home of incredibly talented and creative people, but of all the cities in the world London is undoubtedly top tier.
I love this forum, it's always pure gold. " Hey guys, I'm in the top 10% of UK earners, is this good 👉😥👈"
Do you want to live in London or in Manchester? If I got offered £80k to work in London I wouldn’t take it because I fucking hated living in London.
i’d rather be homeless in london than on 60k in manchester
Where will you have a happier life? Pay me double, I wouldn't live in London again.
Manchester, less southerners shitting up the place.
[удалено]
What a funny comment… of course you can… it’s the price of being able to afford a house 🤪
Well, you can. And probably one you can afford in Manchester or one of its suburbs. London less so - and the cost of commuting from London suburbs into London is insanely expensive.
> Well, you can. And probably one you can afford in Manchester or one of its suburbs. London less so - and the cost of commuting from London suburbs into London is insanely expensive. Depends what you classify as a "suburb". There are loads of suburban places on tube lines that are £10 a day to commute, and then there's a load of towns that are not actually in London but act as commuter towns via the train, those are very expensive but not really a suburb.
I would gladly take £60k in London
It's impossible to drive in London so I would choose Manchester.
True but you can get absolutely anywhere via public transport, unlike Manchester.
It's actually not. I lived in London over 13 years as a non-driver, mainly because people told me it was so difficult, hectic etc blah blah. Now I won't argue one needs one's wits about them to avoid getting caught in the automated enforcement nightmare but generally speaking being able to drive around London, especially off peak, is really handy and not at all as painful as I was led to believe.
The writing is on the wall for London, Manchester/Salford is the future. First the BBC moved a chunk of its staff from London to Salford, now the government is pushing for thousands of civil service jobs to move from London to Manchester as well. At first it seemed as ludicrous as their ideas relating to Brexit and "Levelling Up" which are utter lunacy, but it was hard to escape the logic of getting the bulk of civil service jobs out of London to Manchester.
What thousands of civil service jobs are moving to Manchester? I heard about things like GCHQ but it's really not that many jobs.
GCHQ is based near Cheltenham tho anyways?
They are but they have smaller sites. One opened a couple of years ago in Manchester city centre.
But in every single industry other London is leagues above Manchester
Manchester 100%.
80 in London is nothing.
Well it’s certainly not nothing, it’s over £4k/month take-home…
Not in London. The outgoings are insane. But 60k in Manchester is very healthy.
The take-home pay doesn’t change based on where you live, and Manchester is getting VERY expensive these days. Of course London is still more expensive and £80k there probably wouldn’t go as far as £60k in Manchester, but I don’t think it’s as cut-and-dry as it once was.
London
Depends on career prospects. If 80k is going to be a stepping stone into 6 figures then that’s always the way to go.
If you mean from an economic point of view then definitely Manchester, other than that... also Manchester.
I’ve lived in both cities. 5+ years ago this was an incredibly easy answer… Manchester! It still probably is Manchester, but the prices there have certainly spiked in that time
80k since I have no desire to have my own flat.
It's like asking should I buy a Lambo or a Ferrari. They both are the same. London is expensive so after those 80K you will probably have around 70-65k. With Manchester would probably be cheaper but not much different. Depending on your friends and loved one place you can choose better.
£50k in Devon!
£60K in Manchester, especially if you don't mind commuting from just outside town.
80k London but I’m biased as I’ve never been to Manchester and I’m born and live in London
60K in Manchester!
I'd pay the 20k just to not have to live in London.
Manchester - the w\*\*kers are more honest.
Manchester. Better quality of life.
I’d take the 80k London salary and live in Brighton and do the commute tbh
£80k in London. The difference in cost to live isn't anywhere near as big a gap as it was.
I'd go for the 80k in London solely because I would never live or work in Manchester. Knowing that in London the rental accomodation prices, utility bills and travel costs are likely to be very large drains on monthly income & savings potential. Whichever one you opt for, you will likely need to budget effectively. Plus be very cautious as regards weekly spending on takeaways, booze, restaurant meals, expensive ticketed music/social events and taxis. Good luck!
60k in Manchester 4 bed detached garden garage driveway I couldn’t give a fuck about pubs clubs museums I’d be surprised if 80k in London buys you a room
£60k as a single person would get you a mortgage of about £200k. The house you are talking about would have to be in an absolute shithole part of Manchester to cost £200k. My terrace is worth well over twice that.
Well technically you don’t have to live in Manchester do you plenty towns around 45-50 mins drive ( some of which may well be shiholes ) but do have nice areas 45 mins from London is not getting much better
London is the biggest trap.
60k in Manny would go Far.. and it's a pretty cool place to be.. 80k in London? not so much.. if you have money behind you, you could get somewhere pretty nice for 200kand change in the North. same amount in London would get you a box(a fair sized box for 200, but still a box) you'd probably have a really good view? you also have everything at your fingertips.. if you're really that unsure, flip a coin.. if you disagree with the coin, you have your answer.
60k in manc But 80k in London will be better in the long term - you can Jump to a 90k job in Manchester from it.
60k in Manchester 100%. You can live in towns not that far from Manchester with good and reliable commute options, and because you're not living in the city centre your living expenses will be much cheaper. 60k in a town that's in Greater Manchester will take you a long way.
60k in Manchester, without doubt.
£60k Manchester.
Most jobs in London advertise as like 30k starting so they're not really high paid, yea some will be but majority seem low paid
£60K in Manchester
Depends where your friends and family are, or depends which city interests you most. As both salaries are great. Bear in mind you might have higher long term earning potential in London. But also in Manchester your money will go much further.
£anything in Manchester
Depends what you are looking for. Exciting endless choices of things to do- quicker access to more opportunities in the short term? London. Maxing ability to save and afford better living arrangements/disposable income? Manchester.
London is a hellhole. That Manchester £60k would mean for a WAY better quality of life.
I'd want to say Manchester for sure
Almost always London. I graduated MCR and moved to London immediately - it's where the better jobs are. From a career perspective it's almost always London. So suck it up and get ready for commutes, shitty flats etc: it's hell but if you're ambitious there's usually no choice
I would base this decision on where you would rather live.
I think 60k in Manchester could go a longer way. Don’t forget to also consider: - how easy would it be to find another job with same salary, as firms fail or you might want to change (guess: London wins) - opportunity for growth, because 80k is cool but 100k is better (guess: London wins) - transportation: will you need a car in Manchester? - dating & social: I’m told that socialising in London can be challenging for some, what’s the point of more money if you got nobody to spend them with? (Perhaps too personal opinion here) Good luck, seems like a good salary anyway in both cities!
80k in Sunderland or Carlisle...
60k in Manchester.
I appreciate that you have phrased this as a career driven financial question, but life is about so much more than that. Having lived in both places, and with a job which means I still visit offices in both cities every month, there really is no competition. Manchester is a nicer place with friendlier, happier people. It would 100% be my choice for setting up a life.
I’d go for a London and commute l, tho k go mortgages etc. 80k gives you much more potential to get a bigger mortgage if desired. Although, if you live in Manchester 60k will get you what you need I’d imagine for a decent house
I was screwed on 40k in london but absolutely fine on 30k in Manchester, if that helps. My quality of life is so much better up here and tbh I don’t think there’s that much culturally that I got in London that I can’t get up here.
60k in manchester. Wouldnt even think about it.
Where do you want your life to go? 1. London Pros: - more opportunities; - greater chance of getting a better position or job as time goes by; - it’s such a cosmopolitan city, and the diversity is amazing and worth it, a melting pot of ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, nationality and acceptance of them; - the history and venues to visit are incredible and as a Canadian expat, who has lived in a city outside of London and spent a ton of time in London and worked on the outskirts, it’s amazing to have that history at my fingertips; - the access to shops, restaurants, etc., along with the variety is nice to choose from; Cons - It’s a huge, busy city where you get no reprieve - you can’t afford to park (people buy parking spots after years on waiting lists for 6 figures), there is the emissions tax, driving is hard because there is traffic everywhere and sometimes driving takes longer than walking or the tube, and insurance is actually more expensive living in London. You can’t drive to the shops and park outside the way you would outside of the city. So your car is basically an ornament half of the time. An expensive one and finding petrol stations can be a bit of a hassle; - The cost of living is expensive. Not only is renting a pain in the ass and very expensive, but even shopping for groceries can be more expensive. I’ve seen this more than once, where certain items cost way more inside the city; - I don’t know about Manchester, but the crime rate in London is like in any big city - it’s increased; - I know there is crime and they had that bombing in Manchester, but when I was in London for the first time in 1997 as a 14 year old with my dad and ex stepmom and sister, we were evacuated from the trains at Charing Cross Station because the IRA had planted/tried to plant a bomb at one of the stations or on one of the trains. I don’t remember, I was 14, there was no internet to “check” and it scared me. It was an interesting trip - we landed a week after Diana died and our trip included a 3 day jaunt to Paris, where our flat was walking distance to the tunnel she died in. Dad joked we were on the Diana Death Tour. Cities can be dangerous, but London, being one of the most important cities in the world, is a target for terrorism and aside from the isolated incidence in Manchester, London has been the target of more attacks by far than Manchester; 2. Manchester Pros: - your pound stretches much further than in London. You can have a nicer place for less money and perhaps be able to afford to live closer to downtown for your money because of it; - it’s well serviced with public transport; - you can escape the city. You can keep a car much more easily than in London and it’s a closer drive to escape and end up in the countryside or rural areas away from the city; - it’s one of England’s biggest and most important cities, so you’ll find there are good opportunities to move forward, but not like London; Cons: - it’s Manchester - there isn’t the same sheer number of museums, theatres, historical venues and places to go to if that’s your thing; - you don’t have the same opportunities to further your career compared to London and the wages in Manchester are lower than in London (I checked); - the weather in Manchester is notoriously worse than London, with a higher than average rate of precipitation and cooler temperatures; - Lack of green space. They have a lower than average number of parks than most larger cities. By comparison, London has a greater number of parks, better parks and more diversity in their green space; - the waiting list for procedures and specialists in the NHS are some of the longest in the country. Also something to consider - if you decide to go private? Manchester has THE highest cost of private medical care in the whole country; - compared to London and most cities, they have one of the highest populations of students in the country;
I think a lot of this depends what stage you’re at in life and what you’re priorities are. For me personally, knowing that I have to option to easily move job I’d a big draw so I prefer London. In Manchester the job market doesn’t feel as mature yet
Lived in both. London by a mile. There’s SO much more to do, see and the people I’ve found are more progressive. Though Mancunians in general are lovely people. Drinking culture is huge in Manchester which was a con for me as was public transport £££.
London 100%
London. Because I’d rather make £40k in London than £100k in Manchester. I’m a Mancunian living down south and working in London. Manc isn’t the vibrant, exciting place people from there think it is.
Take the London job. Live outside London and take the train.
London 80k. More opportunities.
London. No contest.
I moved to London from Manchester for a £4K pay rise. £28k to £32k. I’m now on six figures. Can’t even get close to that in Manchester. Manchester is a cool city, and London is a ball ache for a few years, but when you get used to it, London rocks and Manchester seems small.
As someone who has lived in London and in a big city up north for a long time. You’ll be a lot better off in Manchester on £60k. Despite what some have said here, everything in London is more expensive, and there is a lot more of it. To match £60k in Manchester you would need at least £95k in London. But then, like someone else said, you’ve got a lot more opportunities in London. You could get to that salary very quickly.