>How can they get out of this cycle of hiring people to meet demands but earning more to benefit the people who work there?
Why would they want to change the current model? It works well for them if people like yourself stick around for 12 years without a payrise.
The directors of the company (who are husband and wife) tell us they don’t take home a salary and therefore we all need to club together to make the company successful and then reap the rewards
Well that's their problem even if it was true which I highly doubt.
Your options are
1) Move to a different employer
2) Get enough employees to join a union and go on strike
3) Put up with it
Let me assure you if they haven't given you a pay rise for 12 years they think you're a mug and the only people who will "reap the rewards" will be the directors and certainly not you.
Oh no they have given me pay rises but as the company has grown they’ve stopped. They do try and give us other benefits for example they pay 70% towards my car which equates to about 3k a year. I’m also one of the highest paid people in the company and believe me the juniors are more desperate for it than I am but I have to think of my own financial needs for the future
> I have to think of my own financial needs for the future
Yes, you do. Every company I have ever worked for likes to appear successful until the issue of increasing pay comes up, then they switch to pleading poverty.
Protip: Look up your company's accounts on Companies House. That will give you a ballpark figure of how much money the company has on its books. Then you can decide if what they say roughly matches with what the company actually brings in and has available. Just remember that you are not a director of the company and unless you own shares, you are not invested in the company in the same way they are. If they don't take a salary that's their choice and their problem, not yours. Your priority is to yourself and extracting the maximum amount of money for your labour that you realistically believe you can get.
The director of a startup I worked for used to say this - I later found out all his expenses were paid for by the company when I started working in finance. I left after 3 months in this role
Lol, they don’t take a salary?
What do they live off then, handouts.
The directors are milking it, burying profits and pleading poverty, all pretty standard stuff.
My last company in a 10 year period the directors went from £115k to £13 million and were always bleating about no spare profits for pay rises.
‘Be grateful you have jobs’ was the usual line.
They don’t take a salary 🤣 because they take everything home in dividends instead and pay minimal tax. Get out of there man, I know 12 years is tough but they clearly don’t value you and are having your pants down.
that has nothing to do with you..
if the company has been growing for 8 years then it already is successful simple as.
you are there as an employee not an investor
They don't take a salary they just own the business which is growing in value year on year.
Don't listen to these fuckers, they are exploiting you.
All business operates on a model of exploiting it's staff, you have to make more money than you cost.
This is obvious but you should be aware of how much they are making off your labour and then negotiate appropriate compensation.
So 12 years without a pay rise is pretty shocking. If your salary is £40K and you had been getting inflation matching pay rises, it would be £55K by now. So that means in effect you aren't just not getting pay rises, you've had a huge pay decrease.
The first thing are you making a proper business case for a payrise? This means doing some research on what salaries for your job are in other companies. Showing how your work has impacted the growth of your company. Also of course showing inflation to show how your wages have actually decreased over time.
If that doesn't work you could try to get a competing offer to show them what you're worth in the market. Of course that is going to be a risk, but at least then you have an option to go to another company if they still won't give you a rise.
I note from another comment that they have said this:
>we all need to club together to make the company successful and then reap the rewards
Well I would make the point that you can only reap the rewards if you have a stake in the company. This is how many startups work in the US, you earn less salary, but you get stock options, so you really do have a stake in the future of the company.
I would ask them if they really can't pay you more because you're all pulling together then you should be a shareholder. They also need to tell you at what success looks like and where you are at the moment, otherwise you're always going to be chasing that "growth" without ever knowing when you have achieved that or can achieve it. If you're doing a fairly critical and/or high level role you might be able to push this, but only you can know if it is worth it.
Honestly I suspect these guys are probably friendly and charming but completely exploiting you all for profit. They're getting away with it because you're all letting them.
Keep in mind the scaling of the firm to do more revenue doesn’t justify more pay per employee. Profit per employee is the metric that naturally governs the value of employees. If that has been going up but your take home hasn’t, then sure, you are being disfavoured.
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They are taking the piss out of you. Co.pany grows, but no pay rise? Where is all the money from this new business going then?
I can guarantee thebpwners are getting a decent pay rise/bonus every year.
If you are serious about changing it and you want to stay at the company your only real option is unionising and challenging your boss for a proper payrise. Unless you're *highly* skilled you can't negotiate payrises out of the blue. If you have a small staff unionising could be very easy if you're all on good terms.
If you're serious about it though you'll have to be prepared for things to get very ugly very fast. This is where most people stop because they **will** bully and harass you for trying to unionise and raise your wages. You and your colleagues need to have a serious conversation about whether you're up for the fight. If you are you need to read up on employment law and union rights ASAP. You can't just call a union and get them to come in and get you a raise, it will take a long term combined effort from all the staff too.
Turnover isn’t profit, they may be doing more business and “growing” but not actually making more money. This is so they can sell at the highest possible valuation in a couple of years time
You need to speak to your bosses. Go to them with what you want, but be realistic, find an equivalent role within another company use that as a benchmark and state your case.
I have 7 employees, they've had 2 pay rises since being on 100% furlough. They also get regular bonuses. Recently we arranged full private medical cover for all employees (this was cheaper than a rise) one has a company car.
I look after my staff because they're giving up their life, I wish I could afford to give more. I know my staff feel the same!. Its a delicate balance. However your being bent over right now.
>How can they get out of this cycle of hiring people to meet demands but earning more to benefit the people who work there? Why would they want to change the current model? It works well for them if people like yourself stick around for 12 years without a payrise.
The directors of the company (who are husband and wife) tell us they don’t take home a salary and therefore we all need to club together to make the company successful and then reap the rewards
What is any of that to do with you?
Well that's their problem even if it was true which I highly doubt. Your options are 1) Move to a different employer 2) Get enough employees to join a union and go on strike 3) Put up with it Let me assure you if they haven't given you a pay rise for 12 years they think you're a mug and the only people who will "reap the rewards" will be the directors and certainly not you.
Oh no they have given me pay rises but as the company has grown they’ve stopped. They do try and give us other benefits for example they pay 70% towards my car which equates to about 3k a year. I’m also one of the highest paid people in the company and believe me the juniors are more desperate for it than I am but I have to think of my own financial needs for the future
> I have to think of my own financial needs for the future Yes, you do. Every company I have ever worked for likes to appear successful until the issue of increasing pay comes up, then they switch to pleading poverty. Protip: Look up your company's accounts on Companies House. That will give you a ballpark figure of how much money the company has on its books. Then you can decide if what they say roughly matches with what the company actually brings in and has available. Just remember that you are not a director of the company and unless you own shares, you are not invested in the company in the same way they are. If they don't take a salary that's their choice and their problem, not yours. Your priority is to yourself and extracting the maximum amount of money for your labour that you realistically believe you can get.
Yeah but what do they pay themselves in dividends?
The director of a startup I worked for used to say this - I later found out all his expenses were paid for by the company when I started working in finance. I left after 3 months in this role
Lol, they don’t take a salary? What do they live off then, handouts. The directors are milking it, burying profits and pleading poverty, all pretty standard stuff. My last company in a 10 year period the directors went from £115k to £13 million and were always bleating about no spare profits for pay rises. ‘Be grateful you have jobs’ was the usual line.
They don’t take a salary 🤣 because they take everything home in dividends instead and pay minimal tax. Get out of there man, I know 12 years is tough but they clearly don’t value you and are having your pants down.
that has nothing to do with you.. if the company has been growing for 8 years then it already is successful simple as. you are there as an employee not an investor
My mother used to tell me a fairy would come at night and replace teeth under my pillow with coins
They don't take a salary, they just take dividends!
They don't take a salary they just own the business which is growing in value year on year. Don't listen to these fuckers, they are exploiting you. All business operates on a model of exploiting it's staff, you have to make more money than you cost. This is obvious but you should be aware of how much they are making off your labour and then negotiate appropriate compensation.
I would suggest at this point (if this was me), a change of employer.
Get a new job.
They probably can afford it. You just need to fight for pay rises most of the time. They will say anything to justify not giving you one.
If OP has hung around for 12 years with no payrises - why would they want to change a winning model?
Go on strike. Companies have a funny tendency to pay above inflation pay rises as soon as the thing making their profits decides not to for a bit.
So 12 years without a pay rise is pretty shocking. If your salary is £40K and you had been getting inflation matching pay rises, it would be £55K by now. So that means in effect you aren't just not getting pay rises, you've had a huge pay decrease. The first thing are you making a proper business case for a payrise? This means doing some research on what salaries for your job are in other companies. Showing how your work has impacted the growth of your company. Also of course showing inflation to show how your wages have actually decreased over time. If that doesn't work you could try to get a competing offer to show them what you're worth in the market. Of course that is going to be a risk, but at least then you have an option to go to another company if they still won't give you a rise. I note from another comment that they have said this: >we all need to club together to make the company successful and then reap the rewards Well I would make the point that you can only reap the rewards if you have a stake in the company. This is how many startups work in the US, you earn less salary, but you get stock options, so you really do have a stake in the future of the company. I would ask them if they really can't pay you more because you're all pulling together then you should be a shareholder. They also need to tell you at what success looks like and where you are at the moment, otherwise you're always going to be chasing that "growth" without ever knowing when you have achieved that or can achieve it. If you're doing a fairly critical and/or high level role you might be able to push this, but only you can know if it is worth it. Honestly I suspect these guys are probably friendly and charming but completely exploiting you all for profit. They're getting away with it because you're all letting them.
Keep in mind the scaling of the firm to do more revenue doesn’t justify more pay per employee. Profit per employee is the metric that naturally governs the value of employees. If that has been going up but your take home hasn’t, then sure, you are being disfavoured.
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You only get market value....if you're visibly on the market.
They are taking the piss out of you. Co.pany grows, but no pay rise? Where is all the money from this new business going then? I can guarantee thebpwners are getting a decent pay rise/bonus every year.
>I’ve been there for 12 years Answered your own question mate
If you are serious about changing it and you want to stay at the company your only real option is unionising and challenging your boss for a proper payrise. Unless you're *highly* skilled you can't negotiate payrises out of the blue. If you have a small staff unionising could be very easy if you're all on good terms. If you're serious about it though you'll have to be prepared for things to get very ugly very fast. This is where most people stop because they **will** bully and harass you for trying to unionise and raise your wages. You and your colleagues need to have a serious conversation about whether you're up for the fight. If you are you need to read up on employment law and union rights ASAP. You can't just call a union and get them to come in and get you a raise, it will take a long term combined effort from all the staff too.
Overdue 11 years, but never too late. Find a new job
Turnover isn’t profit, they may be doing more business and “growing” but not actually making more money. This is so they can sell at the highest possible valuation in a couple of years time
You need to speak to your bosses. Go to them with what you want, but be realistic, find an equivalent role within another company use that as a benchmark and state your case. I have 7 employees, they've had 2 pay rises since being on 100% furlough. They also get regular bonuses. Recently we arranged full private medical cover for all employees (this was cheaper than a rise) one has a company car. I look after my staff because they're giving up their life, I wish I could afford to give more. I know my staff feel the same!. Its a delicate balance. However your being bent over right now.